Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: FireBrand on July 09, 2012, 10:31:08 AM
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(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/382494_319582201470077_1782517701_n.jpg)
Turtle tragedy...thousands of hatchlings crushed to death
By: Kim Boodram (Trinidad Express).
THOUSANDS of leatherback hatchlings were crushed to death at the weekend as the Ministry of Works used excavators to redirect the Grande Riviere River, at the north east coast.
The Ministry had been called in when the river, running west, eroded most of the beach front, threatening the stability of several homes and hotels.
The community was horrified, though, when excavation work began Saturday without their knowledge on what is the most nest-intensive part of the beach.
Among those buildings under threat was the Mt Plaisir Estate Restaurant and Hotel, the most popular tourist accommodation during turtle nesting season.
The Ministry was called in two weeks ago by hotel owner Piero Guerrini.
The massacre that took place over the past two days was not the help that was expected.
"It is so unfortunate and there are so many mixed feelings," Guerrini said.
"This is a shock. On the one hand the erosion needed to be stopped but what has happened here is not right," he said.
Marc deVerteuil, of Papa Bois Conservation said the debacle could have been avoided with proper land zoning and co-ordination between relevant agencies.
Sherwin Reyz, a member of the Grand Riviere Environmental Organisation, spent yesterday salvaging those hatchlings that were still alive – and clearing the beach of hundreds of dead ones.
Brought to tears several times, Reyz contended that the river mouth could have been opened without that part of the beach being torn up.
"You think they had to do this?" Reyz said.
"This is the worst set of destruction I have ever seen by humans on turtles."
Reyz was among those in the community who began a rescue mission early yesterday and by evening had saved abut 500 hatchlings.
The babies were kept in a cool dugout area behind Mt Plaisir hotel, to be released last night.
Among them could be seen those who had been too badly injured and would clearly not make it.
On the beach, hundreds of eggs could be seen, some crushed and some rolling in the surf. Here and there, hatchlings could be seen fighting for life, some still partially in the shell.
Excavation work went on all day in what is classed by conservationists as zone four of Grande Riviere, which is just over a kilometre long and is the third most prolific sea turtle nesting site in the world.
Len Peters, head of Turtle Village Trust, said while yesterday's toll was unfortunate, much of the nesting area had already been lost to the river.
Peters said there was also sometimes a compromise to be made when animals and people share the same space. In this case, the welfare of the community had to be considered.
Peters said the weekend's tragedy should not have happened in the first place, since the river had started to swing west since December last year.
Repeated attempts to have the course redirected since then were futile, he said, and the Ministry waited too late to act.
"This intervention was necessary," Peters said.
"We would have lost more nesting space eventually. We didn't lose a lot of eggs, although this is an engineering disaster. At the very least, the EMA (Environmental Management Authority) should have been present to direct this operation."
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banana republic ting. thank god for the few people with the foresight to conserve the few eggs left.
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As usual, government departments rushing in to correct a problem that is 6 months old. There should have been consultations, planning and volunteers on hand to move eggs and hatchlings. We wonder why tourism is not better. Hear this;
If , in December, govt announced a major restructuring work to redirect the river and save the world's third most prolific turtle nesting site, there would have been hundreds of volunteers fly in to assist. Plus, the work may have been supervised and paid for by environmental and wildlife charities. There may even have been funds to really improve the site for visitors and community alike.
Its just a case of thinking through a problem and finding a soloution that not only benefits all stakeholders, but is also cost effective or even cost positive. In other countries, they call this "good governance"
This vexes me. Not because I'm a turtle hugger, but because this was a totally thoughtless act...and another example of T&T receiving bad press (even if it is just in the green press)
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As usual, government departments rushing in to correct a problem that is 6 months old. There should have been consultations, planning and volunteers on hand to move eggs and hatchlings. We wonder why tourism is not better. Hear this;
If , in December, govt announced a major restructuring work to redirect the river and save the world's third most prolific turtle nesting site, there would have been hundreds of volunteers fly in to assist. Plus, the work may have been supervised and paid for by environmental and wildlife charities. There may even have been funds to really improve the site for visitors and community alike.
Its just a case of thinking through a problem and finding a soloution that not only benefits all stakeholders, but is also cost effective or even cost positive. In other countries, they call this "good governance"
This vexes me. Not because I'm a turtle hugger, but because this was a totally thoughtless act...and another example of T&T receiving bad press (even if it is just in the green press)
LOL at turtle hugger...Back to the point, yu think all stakeholders didn't know the information you posted, dem men jus say do it and doh worry, hotel falling into the water, lets fix that problem first. Yu think the backhoe operator didn't know dat he/she was working in a turtle nesting ground. From de first time they see eggs or babies, all work should have stopped and the right ppl should have been called to clear the area. Government needs to step up and really hold themselves accountable for de sh*t that happened.
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Another example of why I was forced to create this thread the other day:
Is T&T a country run by nincompoops bent on taking us 50 years backwards?
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?board=1.0
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Part of me want to laugh at the utter and complete incompetence exhibited here... if it wasn't so sad. Where Dinho and the rest of Jack supporters who claim he's the most this and most that Minister? Or this doesn't count since it happen 10 days after his oversight ended?
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Part of me want to laugh at the utter and complete incompetence exhibited here... if it wasn't so sad. Where Dinho and the rest of Jack supporters who claim he's the most this and most that Minister? Or this doesn't count since it happen 10 days after his oversight ended?
Or alternatively, it DIDN'T happen during the last 6 months of his tenure as Action Man :beermug:
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Animals and all seein trouble wit these peeps. Is a good ting we went when we did.
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When Curepe Jr sec was built by the bank of the St. Joseph river, the contractor fill up the bathing pools when they were doing constucttion. The main civil engineer of that project did not care about and/or did not know the importance of the St. Joseph river. Did you know the Spanish sailed up that river to the back of where the church stands now. there is a flat part where we use to play football and cricket called the valley. When I saw the river at farm road, I almost cried. I shook my head in pity and asked my partner to drive away.
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Trinidad leatherback turtle hatchlings crushed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18778013
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Trinidad leatherback turtle hatchlings crushed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18778013
unforking believable. yet another international embarrasment. ignoring the obvious ecological issues, how much money does the presence of just one of these creatures bring in for the community on an annual basis? might as well just burn money while they at it. real c**hole move dey.
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In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.
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Trinidad leatherback turtle hatchlings crushed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18778013
unforking believable. yet another international embarrasment. ignoring the obvious ecological issues, how much money does the presence of just one of these creatures bring in for the community on an annual basis? might as well just burn money while they at it. real c**hole move dey.
The cruel irony is that the hotel primarily makes it's revenue from turtle watchers (if I read the article correctly), and it was to save this self-same hotel (owned by an Italian, it would seem) that is now the cause of the deaths of the turtles. Talk about killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.
The 'point' yuh making is beyond ridiculous. The reason why nature has allowed the leatherback to evolve to produce so many offsprings is so that a fair number will survive the travails faced by newborn hatchlings. By decimating the population of hatchlings the number of survivors will necessarily be much lower than normal. The focus shouldn't be on what numerical count typically survives versus how many died at the hands of these incompetent ignoramuses... the focus should be on the mortality rate of the hatchlings.
If, hypothetically speaking, only 10% make it to adulthood and the typical brood (if that is what it's called) yields 1000 hatchlings, then that's 100 adults added to the population count this year. If these fools killed 300 hatchlings then only 70 are likely to survive to adulthood, threatening the stability of the population of leatherbacks from this region.
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I met the hotelier when I went to Grand Riviera in November. Very hospitable guy. There was a torrential rainfall and although we were not patronising his bar, he allowed us to shelter there alongside paying guests.
He told us that he originally visited as a tourist and loved the place so much, he sold up and moved here. At that time he was lamenting the shortsightedness of the locals and the regional corporation. He said the locals left lots of litter and homeless people were allowed to live on the beach and pester tourists. Although he had sympathy with the locals standard of living, he pointed out that if investment was made in the area, far more eco tourists would come and this would increase income for the locals.
I've visited this area several times and I feel its one of the most beautiful areas of Trinidad. I love the fact that you can bathe in the river and follow its course to the sea.
We played a VFI game up there and the locals were great, laying on a sound system for an impromptu party for the evening.
Sometimes I feel that T&T believes that the only gold in the country is oil and gas, when there are so many more treasures to share with the world and bring in dollars.
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I met the hotelier when I went to Grand Riviera in November. Very hospitable guy. There was a torrential rainfall and although we were not patronising his bar, he allowed us to shelter there alongside paying guests.
He told us that he originally visited as a tourist and loved the place so much, he sold up and moved here. At that time he was lamenting the shortsightedness of the locals and the regional corporation. He said the locals left lots of litter and homeless people were allowed to live on the beach and pester tourists. Although he had sympathy with the locals standard of living, he pointed out that if investment was made in the area, far more eco tourists would come and this would increase income for the locals.
I've visited this area several times and I feel its one of the most beautiful areas of Trinidad. I love the fact that you can bathe in the river and follow its course to the sea.
We played a VFI game up there and the locals were great, laying on a sound system for an impromptu party for the evening.
Sometimes I feel that T&T believes that the only gold in the country is oil and gas, when there are so many more treasures to share with the world and bring in dollars.
Looks like it’s only when the oil and gas run out that this regular Pappy Show nonsense is going to done! :-[
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In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.
Yellow card :devil: To add to Bakes point the leatherback is a k-selected species, meaning it reproduces in low numbers and can reach critical population levels very easily. And turtle eggs are extremely sensitive to temperature. In fact they undergo temperature dependent sex-selection. So the relocation efforts while well meaning expose the eggs to changes in temperature that affect the balance between males and females. That may be no big deal for common reptiles, but this is an internationally recognized endangered species worth a LOT of money. And believe it or not, Trinidad is one of the planet's top nesting and viewing sites for leatherbacks. No matter how you slice it that was a thoughtless, assinine move.
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Trinidad is known to be critical for survival of turtles. They even mention us in the Wikipedia entry on leatherbacks.
From wikipedia.org
"Earthwatch Institute, a global non-profit that teams volunteers with scientists to conduct important environmental research, launched a program called "Trinidad's Leatherback Sea Turtles." This program strives to help save the world's largest turtle from extinction in Matura Beach, Trinidad, as volunteers work side-by-side with leading scientists and a local conservation group, Nature Seekers. This tropical island off the coast of Venezuela is known for its vibrant ethnic diversity and rich cultural events. It is also the site of one of the most important nesting beaches for endangered leatherback turtles, enormous reptiles that can weigh a ton and dive deeper than many whales. Each year, more than 2,000 female leatherbacks haul themselves onto Matura Beach to lay their eggs. With leatherback populations declining more quickly than any other large animal in modern history, each turtle is precious. On this research project, Dr. Dennis Sammy of Nature Seekers and Dr. Scott Eckert of Wider Caribbean Sea Turtle Conservation Network work alongside a team of volunteers to help prevent extinction of Leatherback Sea Turtles."
http://www.earthwatch.org/exped/sammy.html
Seems everybody else appreciates the beauty and vitality of the country except the people who live there
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Sad..very sad!
Now that the deed is done, can this (exposure) work to help in conservation and protection? Wait.. is Trinidad we dealing with here, so expect nothing to change.
Divers will know the shape of our reef as well.. imagine people used to walk on them not too long ago.
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It was reported on the tv6 news that the EMA said that the reports in the press was largely exaggerated. i would think 1 egg being crushed would b 2 much. Another day in this 2x4 green fig republic. I guess the EMA have to sing for their supper.
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I just heard the news again on NPR. We reached when you hear something on National Public Radio.
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It was reported on the tv6 news that the EMA said that the reports in the press was largely exaggerated. i would think 1 egg being crushed would b 2 much. Another day in this 2x4 green fig republic. I guess the EMA have to sing for their supper.
"it was hundreds and not thousands"...I was like WTF dese people cyar be serious.......I wonder if ah trini public officer holder will ever have d integrity to say "Is my fault, ah fuuck up, I take full responsibility" .......steups
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Hundreds of baby turtles killed in botched earth works but...
Rondon happy with work at Grande Riviere.
By: Cherisse Moe (Trinidad Guardian).
Earth works to realign the Grande Riviere river to prevent soil erosion has caused the death of hundreds of baby leatherback turtles. The river has been blocked and rerouted but at a great cost to the turtle population which is the focus of ecotourism in the area.
CEO of the Environmental Management Authority (EMA) Dr Joth Singh says the EMA did its best to help save the turtles of Grande Riviere, although hundreds were killed during excavation to re-route the river over the weekend. The work brought relief to Grande Riviere residents whose properties were being threatened by the river, which had changed its direction from south to west,eroding the beach. The re-routing came at a huge cost. Hundreds of turtles and hatchlings were destroyed. Singh was on his way to Grande Riviere to assess the damage when contacted yesterday morning. He said despite receiving guidance last week from Piero Guerrini, owner of the Mt Plaisir Estate Hotel, whose property was being threatened, the Ministry of Works crew who carried out the work did not follow directions. “The intent of re-routing the river was to prevent further damage and protect the rest of the beach, where there are still turtle nests, and also to save properties,” he said. “It's unfortunate that intervention was not done in the proper fashion. “But the damage has been done. I’m interested in seeing the condition of the hatchlings which were recovered, to see what we can do.”
Singh said while he could not speak for other ministries and agencies which Guerrini had previously contacted for help, the EMA moved quickly to rectify the problem. “He spoke to the EMA on Wednesday and we were there on Thursday, and work began over the weekend,” Singh said. However, Guerrini, who described the situation as an environmental travesty, said the crew that did the work did more harm than good. About 200 of the 400 villagers directly benefit from eco-tourism—a major element of which is the leatherback turtle egg-laying season. “Turtles were struggling to come up on the sand. They were dying. I could see the destruction but there was nothing I could have done. It was too late,” said Guerrini. “They cannot continue to operate in an environmental area like if they are building a highway. Yes, they closed the river and stopped the erosion, but at what cost?” Guerrini said the army brought in the excavator and bulldozer, the machinery needed to re-route the river, on Friday evening and work began on Saturday morning. Although workers were told to excavate the lower end of the beach, he said they “did their own thing,” resulting in the death of hundreds of turtles. “They bulldozed the highest part of the beach to make a big pile of sand. They pushed the sand into the river to block the river mouth—but in doing so, they dug on top of the turtle and hatchling nests. They totally disregarded the turtles,” Guerrini said. “You could see the turtles trying to come out. Hundreds of nests were damaged. “Of course they would have seen it, but nobody, even from the turtle groups, intervened to stop them. When I went to the beach on Sunday, I was shocked. “There were many tourists on the beach and most of them had cameras. They were looking on in horror. I’m sure they will be talking about this disaster all over the world.”
Guerrini said he expected the problem to recur soon, as no permanent barrier was constructed to prevent the river from changing its course again and doing more damage to the area. “They used sand, so if there is a heavy rain again, it will go back to how it was. They needed to put something like a boulder to stop it.”
Councillor for Toco/Fishing Pond Terry Rondon, said while he was not present during the excavation, there was nothing the workers could have done to avoid killing the turtles. Calling on Guerrini and residents to look at the bigger picture, Rondon said the army and the workers should be congratulated for their efforts. “There are turtles throughout the beach, so there was no way they could have avoided that situation. I was the first politician to visit the area three weeks ago, and I am humbly apologising for it, but there is nothing we could have done,” said Rondon. “Hotels going, people losing their jobs—I know the struggles of the north-east coast. “It took that army truck two days to get up here. But at the end of the day, you are hearing they didn’t follow instructions. “Residents should be thankful. I want to tell the workers that they did a good job. I am happy with it, very happy with it.”
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In a natural setting only a fraction of those hatchlings make it to adulthood, so the number of turtles they prevented from surviving to adulthood is much less than the pile of turtles yuh see in the pic there.
Doh kill meh please, I just makin a point.
The 'point' yuh making is beyond ridiculous. The reason why nature has allowed the leatherback to evolve to produce so many offsprings is so that a fair number will survive the travails faced by newborn hatchlings. By decimating the population of hatchlings the number of survivors will necessarily be much lower than normal. The focus shouldn't be on what numerical count typically survives versus how many died at the hands of these incompetent ignoramuses... the focus should be on the mortality rate of the hatchlings.
If, hypothetically speaking, only 10% make it to adulthood and the typical brood (if that is what it's called) yields 1000 hatchlings, then that's 100 adults added to the population count this year. If these fools killed 300 hatchlings then only 70 are likely to survive to adulthood, threatening the stability of the population of leatherbacks from this region.
So you think that I am not talking about the mortality rate? Ok then.
Ok maybe there's confusion because I referenced number of turtles in the picture, but you have to know that I'm talking about the mortality rate.
I would like to see more pictures of the scene. I remember how the river used to run and it's not a big beach so there's not much room for it to meander. Express is a failure with their two little pics. Nobody post up a gallery of the scene?
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I wonder if this could have been done manually. See if we had National Service. All them out of work yutes would be doing that instead of heavy machinery.
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So you think that I am not talking about the mortality rate? Ok then.
Ok maybe there's confusion because I referenced number of turtles in the picture, but you have to know that I'm talking about the mortality rate.
I would like to see more pictures of the scene. I remember how the river used to run and it's not a big beach so there's not much room for it to meander. Express is a failure with their two little pics. Nobody post up a gallery of the scene?
Right because I'm a mind reader. Even IF you were talking about the mortality rate, the focus of your argument remains misplaced. It shouldn't be how much they killed versus how much would have died anyway... it should be on how much they killed unnecessarily. Nature's murderous hand didn't need any help.
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Nature's murderous hand didn't need any help.
Turtle Taliban. ;)
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News hit every major newspaper in canada, the washington post, san francisco chronicle, huffington post, cbc, the independent, fox news and making the rounds in practically every environmental organization in the world. Steups
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1224019--20-000-sea-turtle-eggs-crushed-by-heavy-machinery-on-trinidad-beach
http://news.yahoo.com/leatherback-turtle-eggs-crushed-trinidad-202620761.html
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/10/leatherback-turtle-eggs-crushed-trinidad.html
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/10/thousands-of-leatherback-turtle-eggs-hatchlings-crushed-by-work-crews-on-trinidad-beach/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/thousands-of-sea-turtle-eggs-crushed/2012/07/10/gJQAF17JbW_video.html
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/up-to-20000-turtle-eggs-crushed-by-bulldozers-on-trinidad-beach/article4402346/
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So you think that I am not talking about the mortality rate? Ok then.
Ok maybe there's confusion because I referenced number of turtles in the picture, but you have to know that I'm talking about the mortality rate.
I would like to see more pictures of the scene. I remember how the river used to run and it's not a big beach so there's not much room for it to meander. Express is a failure with their two little pics. Nobody post up a gallery of the scene?
Right because I'm a mind reader. Even IF you were talking about the mortality rate, the focus of your argument remains misplaced. It shouldn't be how much they killed versus how much would have died anyway... it should be on how much they killed unnecessarily. Nature's murderous hand didn't need any help.
Apply a mortality rate to a population and you get a number, no mind reading necessary to understand that.
See that's where you went wrong, I not makin an argument. Just stating something that nobody else mentioned. Ridiculous eh?
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Apply a mortality rate to a population and you get a number, no mind reading necessary to understand that.
See that's where you went wrong, I not makin an argument. Just stating something that nobody else mentioned. Ridiculous eh?
The only ostensible "point" yuh was trying to make is that most of these turtles would have died anyways, so the harm isn't as great as it's being made out to seem. Good luck convincing yuhself that that line of thinking (since yuh not making any argument) has merit.
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when i see this on canadian news i shake my head. People's comments were i never going to Trinidad ever again! Bad publicity!!!!
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The Toronto Star has it in Kingston, Jamaica ;D
We off the hook!
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The Toronto Star has it in Kingston, Jamaica ;D
We off the hook!
We off the hook? ??? More like you off yuh leash mih boy, the reporter was filin his report from Kingston.
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Hundreds of baby turtles killed in botched earth works but...
Rondon happy with work at Grande Riviere.
By: Cherisse Moe (Trinidad Guardian).
Earth works to realign the Grande Riviere river to prevent soil erosion has caused the death of hundreds of baby leatherback turtles. The river has been blocked and rerouted but at a great cost to the turtle population which is the focus of ecotourism in the area.
CEO of the Environmental Management Authority (EMA) Dr Joth Singh says the EMA did its best to help save the turtles of Grande Riviere, although hundreds were killed during excavation to re-route the river over the weekend. The work brought relief to Grande Riviere residents whose properties were being threatened by the river, which had changed its direction from south to west,eroding the beach. The re-routing came at a huge cost. Hundreds of turtles and hatchlings were destroyed. Singh was on his way to Grande Riviere to assess the damage when contacted yesterday morning. He said despite receiving guidance last week from Piero Guerrini, owner of the Mt Plaisir Estate Hotel, whose property was being threatened, the Ministry of Works crew who carried out the work did not follow directions. “The intent of re-routing the river was to prevent further damage and protect the rest of the beach, where there are still turtle nests, and also to save properties,” he said. “It's unfortunate that intervention was not done in the proper fashion. “But the damage has been done. I’m interested in seeing the condition of the hatchlings which were recovered, to see what we can do.”
Singh said while he could not speak for other ministries and agencies which Guerrini had previously contacted for help, the EMA moved quickly to rectify the problem. “He spoke to the EMA on Wednesday and we were there on Thursday, and work began over the weekend,” Singh said. However, Guerrini, who described the situation as an environmental travesty, said the crew that did the work did more harm than good.
CBC Radio (Canada's National Broadcaster) just aired an interview with Dr. Joth Singh on "As It Happens". He sang a completely different story that what was quoted in this article.
He stated that "only about 200 hatchlings" were lost but had they "not intervened", as many as "1,000,000 eggs would have been lost" in other areas of the beach. The eggs that are being reported as being lost were already "spoilt" by the heavy waters. He said there was a smell of rotting eggs in the area that was being excavated indicating that the eggs were already lost.
When challenged by the interviewer about the discrepancy between his numbers and the 20,000 being reported, he said that perhaps these advocacy groups was using this incident "to get their voices heard".
When asked about the hotel, he made it sound like the intervention had nothing to do with the hotel and the intervention was to address the danger to the remaining eggs in the area. This is contrary to what he was quoted as saying above.
Phrases in quotes is what I remember him saying exactly. the rest is paraphrased. Please feel free to correct my errors after listen to the actual interview (posted below)
He sounded like he was spinning a good story.
Here is the link to As it Happens podcast. Fast forward about 10:22 for the interview. It is the second interview in the broadcast.
Trinidad Turtles Crushed. The CEO of the Trinidadian Environmental Management Authority tells us a botched river redirection killed far fewer hatchlings than the thousands environmentalists claim.
Audio Link follows:
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2254950301,%202254951177 (http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2254950301,%202254951177)
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To be fair 20,000 is alot I doubt it's that much. I know the beach like the back of my hand. The area by the river is only a small part of the long Beach, which contains even more eggs. But if it's 20000 or less, it still doesn't exuse the actions of those workers.
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we main problem is a people is we like lazy man shortcut business and we never like to accept responsibility for we actions when we do shit...........is spin spin spin lie lie lie....no matterc how much each piece of spin and lie contribute to d size of ass dey makin deyself out to be and dis gov't and gov't official more than any in d past seem to relish making asses of dey self............again.............steups........Ganga Singh and d EMA fella musbe vex dey ever open dey ass....um mouth :-\ ........
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This was some really disturbing news, when I read this i felt sick to the stomach. This one really hit home for me.
The hotel owner, Pierro is a friend of the family and I visited last year around this time. The Mt. Plaisir hotel itself is a gem and the beach itself (for anyone who doesn't already know) is one of the world's premier turtle nesting grounds. The hotel plays an enormous part in protecting and preserving the beach and it was largely Pierro's vision to invest in the location and transform a relatively derelict old hotel into a premier facility. If the hotel was destroyed, infinitely greater than his loss it would have been Trinidad and Tobago's loss.
That's why I kinda upset that the angle this is being portrayed in the media is that the hotel owner ordered the excavation to selfishly protect his property. Absolute nonsense. Since last December (before turtle season which begins in March) the man trying to get them to come in and act before the nesting season and before it got worse... Plus his suggestion all the long was that the river be re-routed from lower down near the mouth not where they excavated. (See pictures below).
I really don't understand what the ministry or whosoever idiots was in charge of this project was thinking to run up there gung ho with excavators without any kinda consultation or due diligence. Is since December last year that river re-route and threatening to erode the hotel as well as the nesting area in front, yet they wait till the height of the turtle season to get moving. Furthermore, anyone could have foreseen the fallout of going this route without planning with the relevant authorities. Most trinidadians are passionate about the turtles, just look at the outcry from that dotish woman who was riding the leatherback. This was just slackness and negligence of the highest order.
The Grand Riviere beach should be a national heritage site. What we have up there is a tourist destination all by itself and its only because it is not marketed better that we don't have more nature seeking tourists from all over the world flocking up there around this time of the year. Up to about 7-10 years ago, for reasons yet to be determined, the beach started experiencing a boom in the leatherback turtle population nesting during the season. When I went up when I was younger, you woulda be glad to see 4 or 5 turtles come ashore on that beach in a night, nowadays scores of leatherbacks favor the beach every night to the point where there is no space left on the beach for nesting. Turtles digging up old nests and laying over them, turtles getting in each other's way.
There are different theories as to why turtles have been coming there, from climate change to currents to predators or inhospitable environments on other nesting grounds around the world... But many have also speculated that the major conservation efforts in place here have had a part to play. Over the years, the turtle conservation people here have been doing an amazing job to preserve and protect the beaches to make it hospitable for the turtles.. They working hard every night and day to protect the turtles from predators, environmental effects and the biggest threat - humans.
To be honest, through this incident I feel it for them the most because for all their efforts and hard work, the negative international publicity makes it look like we down here have no regard for the turtles and the environment.
Anyway, to provide some perspective I uploaded some pics my parents took on their visit a couple weeks ago to show where the river was re-routed and threatening the hotel.
This is what the beachfront location of the hotel looked like prior to the river redirecting. The sand in front was available nesting ground.:
(http://www.definitivecaribbean.com/images/uploads/cache/2a/554x330_2539-MtPlaisirBeachfront.JPG)
River course changed and running in front of the hotel. You can see how close the front area is to being eroded into the river, and some of the foundation was already lost.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7112/7546498450_f6fdd91df8_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8007/7546503330_ff4a0d301b_z.jpg)
Fishermen push a boat up the river in front the hotel
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8286/7546507848_6b42916908_z.jpg)
River course should have been changed from the mouth of the river all the way upstream where turtles do not go (where the palm tree is in the distance):
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7546501676_4067096111_z.jpg)
High tide you can see the entire beach front nesting area covered:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8285/7546500160_1dc88225c3_z.jpg)
Children swing from a tree above. The drop from the edge of the hotel into the river is more than 6ft deep:
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7546495372_954831b661_z.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8434/7546509372_e76953fa08_z.jpg)
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Wayy things get rel bad up there. All that was sand before
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Well, I can confirm that in November the beach looked as it is in the photo. I bet one of the problems in delaying work was attitude towards a foreigner kicking up a fuss. Ideally, there should have been meetings at the hotel to discuss the problem and rectify it properly, with little disruption.
Its a beautiful spot, and one that many Trin is I've spoken to haven't enjoyed. (That's no slight on Trinis, there's many places in UK I've never visited when Trinis have!)
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The Hotel is pretty close to the beach though.
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The Hotel is pretty close to the beach though.
I think its fair to say that the hotel is ON the beach! Not sure if the current owner built it, but it seemed to me its been there a while.
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yeash looks older, sad the whole thing, man making a good clean living...and then this.
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The Toronto Star has it in Kingston, Jamaica ;D
We off the hook!
We off the hook? ??? More like you off yuh leash mih boy, the reporter was filin his report from Kingston.
Yuh ain't see that big smilie emoticon there! There was sarcasm involved, ease up nah man!
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The Hotel is pretty close to the beach though.
I think its fair to say that the hotel is ON the beach! Not sure if the current owner built it, but it seemed to me its been there a while.
The hotel has been there since 1983/84. It was built by a family member of mine who ran it until the mid 1990s and then sold up to the present owner. I spent a lot of time there as a teenager and judging from the pictures posted above the river has shifted course significantly since then.
Apparently in the early days of the hotel there were problems with the river and stone baskets were put in place to keep it at bay. Clearly that solution was only ever going to be a temporary one.
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This was the before...
http://www.guardian.co.tt/lifestyle/2012-07-09/grande-riviere-jeopardy
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Well, I can confirm that in November the beach looked as it is in the photo. I bet one of the problems in delaying work was attitude towards a foreigner kicking up a fuss. Ideally, there should have been meetings at the hotel to discuss the problem and rectify it properly, with little disruption.
Its a beautiful spot, and one that many Trin is I've spoken to haven't enjoyed. (That's no slight on Trinis, there's many places in UK I've never visited when Trinis have!)
I don't think that has anything to do with it as Pierro has been there for almost 20 years now and is not really a foreigner per se... The councillors and MPs for the area had also been trying in vain to get the ministry to come in and act..
I don't know if is bureacracy, politics or incompetence that caused the delay but it is a shame.
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Tears of the turtles
T&T Newsday
Responding to the horrific event played out earlier this week at the most prolific nesting habitat for the critical endangered leatherback turtles where thousands of eggs and hatchlings were destroyed at what should have been a safe haven, a team comprising Gupte Lutchmedial, Nirmal Biptah, Lisa Ramkissoon-Maharaj and Richard Joseph from the Zoological Society of Trinidad and the Manatee Conservation Trust (MCT), involved in turtle protection at Manzanilla, visited the site to see first-hand what took place.
Lutchmedial, president of the Zoological Society of Trinidad and Tobago in an immediate reaction, exclaimed, “My organisation is in strong condemnation of what took place and it is unbelievable to see the extent of the losses to the leatherback turtle population at Grande Riviere.
This is something that we will be hard-pressed to explain to our international partners in conservation, including our friends from the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW) and the National Aquarium in Baltimore who have been bombarding me with their concerns.”
Lutchmedial said that ooking at the situation objectively, one cannot help but see the irony that the self-same “golden-goose” for the community and hoteliers in this area quickly became expendable, when their properties were threatened by what surely is a natural process. But most unbelievable of all is the justification being given for this uncaring, irresponsible and avoidable action by those in authority, entrusted to protect these helpless animals.
Richard Joseph, secretary of the MCT cannot believe that such a tragedy can be justified and lamented, “To hear the head of a state agency come out and openly say that nothing was wrong with the remedial works as only ‘hundreds’ of hatchlings were destroyed is nothing short of scandalous and a slap in the face for turtle conservationists who have laboured long and hard in the vineyards.” Overcome by his emotions, Joseph continued, “ It is high time that citizens stand up and demand that persons occupying well-paid jobs funded by our tax dollars carry out their duties with due diligence. In a first-world country, heads would be rolling today as persons would be held to account for this travesty.”
The Zoological Society group noted that TT is now the laughing-stock of the world, as with today’s technology, this incident has gone viral on the social network as well as featured by the conventional media including BBC, CNN and Fox News. John Seyjagat, curator at the National Aquarium in Baltimore in a wake-up call to TT cautioned, “Trinidad and Tobago has long been a country that was envied for its protection of turtles and known to have among the largest nesting population in the world at a single site, but overnight this site has turned into the largest graveyard for leatherback turtles. What a sad day for this country and a blot to its sterling reputation as a defender of turtles!”
Lutchmedial could not help but question, “In this time of crisis, where are the protesters who take up lesser causes? Where are our “welfarists” and animal behaviourists in this time of real need? Why the silence from the many guardians of the turtles? Now is the time for the Turtle Village Trust and the other community-based organisations which not only receive support from the Government and corporate sector for turtle protection, but also make a living from this resource to show their mettle and take a stand against this act of animal cruelty. Where are those who promote this country as an eco-tourism paradise?”
On the visit, the team met with Sherwin Ruiz and his group from the community, trying to salvage what little they could after the wanton destruction. President of the MCT, Ramkissoon-Maharaj, impressed by their efforts, urged, “Support is needed for this group, who like a David among Goliath is condemning this action and leading an on-site effort to save as many of the dug-up hatchlings as possible.” As for Ruiz himself, he said. “I had to stand by helplessly and look at this inhumane and uncaring act take place because a few buildings were threatened.
There are other measures which could have been taken to safeguard the buildings without jeopardising the future of this endangered animal.”
The few hatchlings that were collected by this group have since been released into the sea.
Lutchmedial, further questioned “Whose lives were threatened to such an extent that we had to destroy the future of this species repository in the thousands of destroyed eggs and hundreds of dead hatchlings? He continued, “The turtles have adapted to dealing with nature by laying thousands of eggs to ensure that at least one survives to adulthood, but faced with man’s intervention they are powerless.
When we reap the seeds of what we have sown here at Grande Riviere, I hope that it will not be too late.”
To make matters even worse, Biptah, curator at the Zoo pointed out the deleterious effects of the heavy equipment used in the operations for future emergence of hatchlings. Giving his viewpoint, he commented, “This excavator would have passed over many other nests and compacted the sand. It is therefore more than likely that these remaining hatchlings when they are ready would be unable to burrow their way out of those nests.”
Various persons have weighed in on alternatives to what took place and there is consensus that the situation could have been alleviated by the use of sand bags to stabilise the banks, even if this was temporary until the nesting season is over. Also, better coordination of the activity by relevant state agencies would have saved the eggs and hatchlings.
Community persons such as Ruiz and his group could have been called upon to remove eggs for relocation and hatchlings before the new course was cut.
Our “welfarists” and turtle protectors should have been on hand to assist in the delicate operations and avoid the disaster that transpired.
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Front page of Yahoo
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/turtle-eggs-crushed-trinidad-055423768.html
How much dey say dead again, 200?? Dat doh look like 200 to me nah
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Front page of Yahoo
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/turtle-eggs-crushed-trinidad-055423768.html
How much dey say dead again, 200?? Dat doh look like 200 to me nah
Remember they sais that vultures had been eating them, and the sea may have washed some away. Also, they could have been scooped up or buried during the work. The most worrying aspect is that there could be hundreds more that hatch and unable to dig their way out of the compacted sand.
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Apply a mortality rate to a population and you get a number, no mind reading necessary to understand that.
See that's where you went wrong, I not makin an argument. Just stating something that nobody else mentioned. Ridiculous eh?
The only ostensible "point" yuh was trying to make is that most of these turtles would have died anyways, so the harm isn't as great as it's being made out to seem. Good luck convincing yuhself that that line of thinking (since yuh not making any argument) has merit.
It's a fact and it shouldn't offend you.
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It's a fact and it shouldn't offend you.
LOL... doh flatter yuhself fella. The fact that yuh talking shit doesn't in the least "offend" me.
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Tourism Minister: This must never ever happen again
Published: Wednesday, July 11, 2012
What happened at Grande Riviere beach where hundreds of turtles were killed in an effort to stop land slippage must never happen again. This was stated by Minister of Tourism Stephen Cadiz while speaking to reporters at the beach as several concerned government officials and residents gathered to get more information about the incident.
Over the weekend workers from the Ministry of Water and the Environment Drainage Division began work to divert a river in an effort to save several businesses which were threatened by erosion. In the process hundreds of leatherback turtle hatchlings and eggs were destroyed. The incident has not only attracted the attention of conservationists and environmentalist groups but several international media organisations.
Cadiz, along with a crew of government officials that included Minister of Water and the Environment Ganga Singh, yesterday visited the site to survey the work that was done and to see what still needs to be accomplished. Cadiz said that his ministry was very proud of the fact that the leatherback turtles had chosen Trinidad to lay their eggs.
“Obviously we are not very proud about what has happened here and we will be speaking to the right people, with the EMA, with the people in charge of beaches, coastal regions and get some expert advice as to how this thing will never ever happen again,” he said.
He described the beach as a crucial site for tourism in the country and stressed that he hoped it would never happen again and called the situation a “disaster.” Cadiz said there needed to be more research so that no other turtle nesting site would have to be destroyed in this manner.
He also said he believed that there was very little consultation on the project at Grande Riviere and that some mistakes may have been made. “If a huge error has been made in trying to fix a natural occurrence and we did it the wrong way for whatever reason, obviously we didn’t know what to expect and therefore I do not think we can continue with that,” he said.
Cadiz said it was a very “ticklish situation” as several things had to be taken into consideration when the decision was made. He said it was not a “nice learning curve.” Singh however defended his ministry’s decision even though he admitted that he believed the actions taken “could have been handled a bit more sensitively.”
“Well work has to continue because you are within the hurricane season and you would already recognise that this is not a really significant zone for laying of the turtle eggs and it is the area that they sought to protect,” he said. He said the fact the leatherback turtles chose this country to nest is a gift to the world and that in the past all efforts have been taken to protect the endangered species.
“It is not in the DNA of Trinidad and Tobago to endanger the leatherback turtle. It is in the DNA of the country to protect the leatherback turtle. That is our local obligation and that is our international obligation,” he said. He said his “newly minted” ministry would be making moves to help residents protect their sensitive ecosystem.
“Approximately 80 per cent of all leatherbacks in the world nest in Trinidad and Tobago so that therefore it is indeed a haven for the leatherback turtle. Therefore we need to provide a safe haven for the leatherback turtle,” he said. Singh also said the numbers of turtles killed were exaggerated and he does not feel that his ministry was in breach of any international treaties.
He said he was holding everybody responsible as the matter should have been handled more sensitively. The residents who had gathered were in support of the ministry’s action and said that it was the only appropriate way that it could have been handled.
“Three little hatchlings die, you see what going on here. The villagers fully in support of what going on. Turtles don’t lay here—any turtles that hatch here does die,” Kyle Charles said. He was amazed that the turtles had received so much media attention when the people of the village have been highlighting the issues they face for some time.
Another resident, Wilton James, who has been living at the beach for 45 years said he was very happy about the action taken and hoped that another river lower down the beach would be diverted in the same manner, as it was eroding the land that he and about five others were living on. “They only basing on turtles and turtles but not on human being,” he said.
He said the river had begun to cause trees to fall and he was really worried that he may lose his home. He urged Singh to follow him down the beach to see the nature of the destruction he faced. The team of officials then walked down the beach to survey all the erosion that the river had caused so far and what remedial work was needed still to prevent the entire village from being lost.
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Turtle season is almost over. They could have implement a temporary measure in the interim, wait till the season over, then do their excavation works. Basic common sense. Ah swear Trinidad dont deserve this blessings of nature. We just full of shit sometimes
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real nice pics dey dinho..really puts perspective as to how long the ministry ignoring that issue
The min of tourism should really take the reins on this one...do some kinda international mea culpa and spin this into a huge opportunity for future eco tourism
nobody budget could buy the kinda intl media exposure dey gettin right now
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Group: Turtle kill exaggerated
Thursday 12th July, 2012
A conservationist group says the local and global media were fed an inaccurate and sensationalised version of the events in Grande Riviere by persons not directly involved in the turtle conservation movement.
The Caribbean Institute of Sustainability, a group based in Port of Spain, issued a statement on the local event that has been making international headlines over the past few days.
President of the Caribbean Institute of Sustainability, Mr. Steven Greenleaf, said the fact that the turtle crushing incident has received such a passionate response from around the world is good news for the turtles. However he stated that much of what has been reported is simply untrue.
Mr. Greenleaf, an ecologist and natural resource conservationist, visited Grande Riviere, along with Government Ministers and other officials on Tuesday.
He said he spoke to villagers, members of the Grand Riviere Nature Tour Guide Association, biologists, conservationists, and fishermen.
He said certainly some viable hatchlings were killed and the best estimates given by turtle conservationists who were actually there, was between 100 and 200 hatchlings that were killed, not the "thousands," which were reported.
Mr. Greenleaf said when the Grande Riviere River changed its course west of its typical location, it left a narrow strip of beach, between the river and the waves, where leatherback turtles laid thousands of eggs over the last few months.
He said unfortunately, the majority of those nests became waterlogged, preventing the eggs from maturing and thousands of hatchlings never made it.
Mr. Greenleaf noted that if the river had continued on its new course into areas which support some of the highest densities of leatherback nests in the world, it would have also threatened those nests which were, and still are, successfully producing thousands of hatchlings.
The CIS President lamented while reckless sensationalism may sell stories, it does not help these endangered animals. He said rather, it does a great disservice to the dedicated people who have worked for years to protect them, usually without pay, often at real risk to their personal safety, and with precious little thanks.
Members of the environmental advocate group, Papa Bois Conservation, will be guests on CTV's First Up Programme on Friday morning discussing: A Proper Plan for Turtle Removal. Papa Bois Conservation first highlighted the excavation works at Grande Riviere that resulted in the destruction of Leatherback Turtle Hatchlings and Eggs.
http://www.ctntworld.com/LocalArticles.aspx?id=43624&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
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Wheeeeeyyyyy!!!! :o :o
Thanks for the pics Dinho. The situation now with the river is definitely different to what I saw a few years ago when I did the Turtle Watching thing......
Ah real sorry for the de turtles...... :'( :'(
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As I said elsewhere... Greenleaf talking a heaping pile of shit. Whether the number was exaggerated or not I don't know, but how can this man come and say that the turtle hatchlings were already dead from an inundation of fresh water over the nesting area? Did he perform a post-mortem to determine cause of death or is he just speculating? And what of the turtles seen writhing among the survivors... the ones the AP reported clearly weren't going to survive? Is fresh water inundation they was dying from and the signs of crushing just flesh wounds? Why are there survivors among the dead anyways... the "fresh water inundation" decide to spare them?
He must think we is lettuce.
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The environmental ministry of Trinidad and Tobago: take full responsibility and penalization (http://www.change.org/petitions/the-environmental-ministry-of-trinidad-and-tobago-take-full-responsibility-and-penalization#)
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The environmental ministry of Trinidad and Tobago: take full responsibility and penalization (http://www.change.org/petitions/the-environmental-ministry-of-trinidad-and-tobago-take-full-responsibility-and-penalization#)
THXS SIGNED IT
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Video comments
http://youtu.be/iBUAicdVNtg