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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael-j on July 20, 2012, 06:21:01 AM

Title: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Michael-j on July 20, 2012, 06:21:01 AM
14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
By Chelsea J. Carter, CNN
July 20, 2012 -- Updated 1150 GMT (1950 HKT)
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=us_c1 (http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=us_c1)

(CNN) -- A heavily armed gunman killed at least 14 people and wounded 50 more during an early Friday morning screening of the new Batman movie at an Aurora, Colorado, theater, police Chief Dan Oates told reporters.
Police arrested a man believed to be the shooter in a rear parking lot of the theater, Frank Fania, a police spokesman, told CNN. The suspect was not immediately identified, though Fania said he was believed to be in his early 20s.
"He did not resist. He did not put up a fight," Fania said. Police seized a rifle and a handgun from the suspect, and another gun was found in the theater, he said.
 
Oates said there was no evidence of a second gunman, and FBI spokesman Jason Pack said it did not appear the incident was related to terrorism.
President Barack Obama issued a statement saying he and first lady Michelle Obama were "shocked and saddened" by the shooting and pledged the administration's support for victims of the shooting.
"As we do when confronted by moments of darkness and challenge, we must now come together as one American family," it said.
Chaos broke out during the showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" at the Century Aurora 16 theater when the shooting began, police and witnesses said.
Witnesses told KUSA that the gunman kicked in an emergency exit door and threw a smoke bomb into the darkened theater before opening fire.
One movie-goer, who was not identified, told KUSA the gunman was wearing a gas mask.
Some people in the audience thought the thick smoke and gunfire was a special effect accompanying the movie, police and witnesses said.
"We just heard a pop, pop, pop, pop," said Quentin Caldwell, who was attending the Batman showing in an adjacent theater.
Cell phone video taken by someone at the theater showed scores of people screaming and fleeing the building. Some had blood on their clothes.
One police officer carried a girl believed to be about 9 with gunshot wounds to her back out of the theater, a witness said. "She wasn't moving."
Authorities also have evacuated the suspect's Aurora apartment building after "he made a statement about explosives" in his unit, Oates said.
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents have searched the suspect's car and went to his home to search for explosives, agency spokesman Tom Mangan said. They also are conducting emergency traces on the weapons used to see how they were obtained, he said.
Of the wounded, at least 20 were being treated at the University of Colorado Hospital, said spokeswoman Jacque Montgomery. All of the wounded suffered from gunshot wounds, which ranged from minor to critical, she said.
"They're arriving by police, by ambulance. Some are walking in," she said.
Ten people were killed in the theater and another four died at area hospitals, Oates said.
Hundreds of police officers descended on the theater, and the FBI has joined the investigation.
"We were calling for help from every police and fire agency," Fania said.
Aurora, a Denver suburb, is about 13 miles from Littleton, Colorado -- site of the April 1999 Columbine High School massacre.
In that incident, two teenage students, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, armed themselves with guns and bombs and opened fire inside the high school. They killed 13 people and wounding 23 others before killing themselves.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: lefty on July 20, 2012, 06:40:11 AM
u tellin me year in year out people gettin killed an man fightin dong gun control measures in d states, police man and soldiers does get psych evals why not potential gun owners.......especially since havin ah arsenal in yuh house eh no scene .......dat jus crazy........que daft trini
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: D.H.W on July 20, 2012, 07:20:36 AM
America land of the free!
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: pecan on July 20, 2012, 08:29:42 AM
This is scary, while the odds are low, I often wonder if I will ever be caught up in situations like this.

Apparently, one of the victims in Colorado, was also present at the Eaton Centre food court shooting in Toronto a few weeks ago. This time, she was shot and died as a result.

 
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Michael-j on July 20, 2012, 08:46:01 AM
This is scary, while the odds are low, I often wonder if I will ever be caught up in situations like this.

Apparently, one of the victims in Colorado, was also present at the Eaton Centre food court shooting in Toronto a few weeks ago. This time, she was shot and died as a result.

 


Seriously?? Wow!  That's freaky man....reminiscent of those "Final Destination" movies. 
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: pecan on July 20, 2012, 09:04:20 AM
This is scary, while the odds are low, I often wonder if I will ever be caught up in situations like this.

Apparently, one of the victims in Colorado, was also present at the Eaton Centre food court shooting in Toronto a few weeks ago. This time, she was shot and died as a result.


Seriously?? Wow!  That's freaky man....reminiscent of those "Final Destination" movies. 


Seems so, I just found this link

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/20/aspiring-sportscaster-jessica-ghawi-killed-in-colorado-shooting-narrowly-missed-toronto-eaton-centre-gunfire/

Aspiring sportscaster Jessica Ghawi, killed in Colorado shooting, narrowly missed Toronto Eaton Centre gunfire

And here is her blog about the Eaton Centre shooting

http://jessicaredfield.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/late-night-thoughts-on-the-eaton-center-shooting/

Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Michael-j on July 20, 2012, 09:11:09 AM
This is scary, while the odds are low, I often wonder if I will ever be caught up in situations like this.

Apparently, one of the victims in Colorado, was also present at the Eaton Centre food court shooting in Toronto a few weeks ago. This time, she was shot and died as a result.


Seriously?? Wow!  That's freaky man....reminiscent of those "Final Destination" movies. 


Seems so, I just found this link

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/20/aspiring-sportscaster-jessica-ghawi-killed-in-colorado-shooting-narrowly-missed-toronto-eaton-centre-gunfire/

Aspiring sportscaster Jessica Ghawi, killed in Colorado shooting, narrowly missed Toronto Eaton Centre gunfire

And here is her blog about the Eaton Centre shooting

http://jessicaredfield.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/late-night-thoughts-on-the-eaton-center-shooting/



CBS is reporting about her right now. Just tragic.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 20, 2012, 09:27:49 AM
America land of the free!

Really puts things in perspective in Trinidad and Tobago ent?

Colorado has such a greater population, and yet had only 120 murders in 2010.  more than 95% solve rate.

sad incident really sad.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: kaliman2006 on July 20, 2012, 09:44:31 AM
I pray for the families of the lost ones and am at a loss to understand the lunacy that would have driven the perpetrator to launch such an attack.

It seems that movie "The Dark Knight" unwittingly served as a grim foreshadowing of the grisly event that was about to transpire.

There is too much madness out in the world today and balance needs to be restored to this planet.

 :(
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Dutty on July 20, 2012, 10:18:58 AM

Apparently, one of the victims in Colorado, was also present at the Eaton Centre food court shooting in Toronto a few weeks ago. This time, she was shot and died as a result.

 

NFW!!! Is that confirmed?
Ting like dat does really make you believe in fate and the reaper oui

It real irritating that ppl cyah take in a lil midnight movie without some attention whore trying to get they name into infamous history

oddly enough the first story I hear on the radio this morning is Hillary Clinton motorcade get attacked in Israel….now yuh cyah even find mention of that news


Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Daft Trini on July 20, 2012, 10:30:45 AM
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on July 20, 2012, 11:24:59 AM
America is de drama queen and de 2nd Amendment is de abusive Ex.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Bakes on July 20, 2012, 12:14:26 PM
America is de drama queen and de 2nd Amendment is de abusive Ex.

You must be de cuckold husband den.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 20, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
America is de drama queen and de 2nd Amendment is de abusive Ex.

You must be de cuckold husband den.

wey de rimshot smiley when yuh want it?
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on July 20, 2012, 01:00:58 PM
America is de drama queen and de 2nd Amendment is de abusive Ex.

You must be de cuckold husband den.

wey de rimshot smiley when yuh want it?

that too would be out of timing.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on July 20, 2012, 02:32:06 PM
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png

apparently this guy is a PHD student in neuroscience. ah betting he is an atheist.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Deeks on July 20, 2012, 03:08:35 PM
It seems that movie "The Dark Knight" unwittingly served as a grim foreshadowing of the grisly event that was about to transpire.

Sad part about this, is only a movie. make believe. Lord put a hand.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: kaliman2006 on July 20, 2012, 04:08:39 PM
It seems that movie "The Dark Knight" unwittingly served as a grim foreshadowing of the grisly event that was about to transpire.

Sad part about this, is only a movie. make believe. Lord put a hand.

Sane and balanced people like us agree on that. However, the shooter, as the report below reveals, had a psychotic break with reality. According to the story, there was nothing uniwitting about the Dark Knight connection.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man calling himself the Joker kills 12, injures 59 at 'Dark Knight Rises' screening in Aurora, Colorado, authorities say

The Colorado gunman carried two pistols, a rifle and a shotgun into the midnight showing of "The Dark Knight Rises." NBC News' Pete Williams reports.

By Pete Williams and M. Alex Johnson, NBC News

Updated at 5:45 p.m. ET: A graduate student with dyed red or orange hair who told police he was the Joker opened fire in a theater showing the premiere of the latest Batman movie near Denver early Friday, killing 12 people and wounding 59 others, many of them seriously, a law enforcement official told NBC News.

University of Colorado

James Holmes, identified as the suspect in the Colorado shootings, in a photo from the University of Colorado.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed reports that the suspect, identified as James Eagan Holmes, 24, told police in Aurora, Colo., that he was the Joker, a reference to one of the most prominent villains in the Batman canon.
 
The source told NBC News that the suspect had dyed his hair red or orange, which isn't typically associated with the green-haired Joker character. The character also doesn't appear in the newest movie, "The Dark Knight Rises," one of the most eagerly awaited films of the year.

Holmes also told police that his apartment had been booby-trapped. When investigators arrived, they peered in through a window from a hook-and-ladder truck and discovered numerous bottles containing an unknown liquid, fire officials said. The bottles were connected to wires.

"It's nothing I've ever seen before," said Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates, who said the area was evacuated and that police were expected to remain on the scene "for hours or days."

Authorities still hadn't entered the apartment late Friday afternoon. They were examining photographs of the scene to figure out how to deal with the materials.
 
Holmes, a graduate student from San Diego who was in the process of withdrawing from the neuroscience program at University of Colorado-Denver medical school, put up no resistance when he was arrested in a parking lot at the theater, police said. He retained legal counsel and wasn't answering investigators' questions, police said.

Witnesses describe what they saw at the theater in Aurora, Colo.

"We are confident he acted alone," Oates said of Holmes, who was scheduled to appear in court Monday morning to face unspecified charges. Authorities refused to speculate on his possible motive.

The victims, who were being treated in six hospitals, included a 6-year-old child. A 4-month-old baby also was treated and released. The oldest reported patient was 45.

One of those killed was Jessica Ghawi, a sportswriter who survived a June 2 mass shooting at a mall in Toronto in which two people were killed and seven others were injured. Ghawi blogged under the name Jessica Redfield.

Follow M. Alex Johnson on Twitter and Facebook.
 
Defense officials told NBC News that a sailor at Buckley Air Force Base in Aurora was missing and presumed to have been killed. A second sailor and two airmen from Buckley were also shot. Their identities and conditions weren't available.

Authorities said the gunman appeared at the front of the theater at 12:39 a.m., about 20 minutes into the film, and released two canisters of gas. Witnesses told reporters that the gunfire erupted during a shootout scene. Authorities responded within a minute and a half, Oates said.
 
'Mass chaors'

"It was mass chaos," witness Jennifer Seeger told TODAY. The gunman shot the ceiling and then "he threw in the gas can, and then I knew it was real."

Witnesses said the gunman entered the Century 16 Movie Theaters at Aurora Town Center through an emergency exit door. But a federal law enforcement official told The Associated Press that the suspect bought a ticket and went in as part of the crowd. He is believed to have propped open an exit door as the movie was playing, the official said.

Watch live video from KUSA

Aurora is a suburb less than 10 miles east of downtown Denver and just 15 miles northeast of Littleton, scene what had been the worst mass shooting in Colorado: the Columbine High School massacre on April 20, 1999, when two gunmen killed 12 fellow students and a teacher and wounded 26 other people before killing themselves.

The suspect was found in possession of a helmet, a gas mask, a tactical vest, throat and groin protectors and black tactical gloves, authorities said.

Oates said the gunman had four weapons: two 40-caliber Glock handguns, a Remington 870 single-barrel pump shotgun and a Smith & Wesson AR-15 assault-style rifle. Three of the weapons were found in the suspect's white Hyundai parked at the back entrance to the theater; one of the handguns was found in the theater.

Law enforcement officials told NBC News that the weapons were legally bought from local stores of two national chains — Gander Mountain Guns and Bass Pro Shop — beginning in May.

Former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt tells Daily Rundown's Chuck Todd "this was a pre-planned event."

Oates didn't say what kind of magazines were used, but he said "many, many rounds were fired." Some rounds penetrated an adjoining theater and injured at least one person, he said.

Police name alleged gunman in Colorado theater shooting

James Yacone, the FBI's agent in charge in Denver, said there was no early indication of a link to terrorism. Holmes wasn't on any federal law enforcement watch lists, authorities told NBC News, and Oates said he had no police record beyond a speeding ticket last year.
 
In his apartment rental application early last year, Holmes described himself

as a "quiet and easy-going" student. A pharmacy student who lives in the building, which is reserved for students, faculty and staff of the medical campus, said he kept to himself.

Experts: Mass killers usually seeking revenge

"No one knew him. No one," the man, who asked to be identified only as "Ben," told The Denver Post.

The University of California-Riverside confirmed that a man named James Holmes graduated from the university with a degree in neuroscience in 2010. His last known address was in San Diego, it said.

The Poway United School District told NBC News that Holmes attended Westview High School in San Diego, graduating in 2006.

'Pain and grief ... too intense for words'
Gov. John Hickenlooper said at a news conference that "our hearts are broken as we think of the friends and family of the victims of this senseless tragedy." He called the shootings "the act of an apparently very deranged mind."

"The pain and grief (are) too intense for words, but we can't let it keep us from our lives," Hickenlooper said. "We are going to come back stronger from this, but it is obviously going to be a very long process."

President Barack Obama cut short a campaign visit to Florida to return to Washington ahead of schedule.

He called for reflection after the attack. "There are going to be other days for politics," Obama said during an abbreviated appearance in Fort Myers, where he led a moment of silence on behalf of the victims and their families.

More on this story from breakingnews.com

At a campaign appearance in Bow, N.H., Republican presidential challenger Mitt Romney said: "Today is to remember and reach out and remember our blessings in life. Each of us will hold family close and spend a little less time thinking about worries of day and helping those in need of compassion."
 
'We need to go'
Moviegoers described scenes of chaos and terror inside the

Tanner Coon, who was in the theater with a friend and the friend's 12-year-old brother when the shooter came in, said he told them to "get down" when he heard the gunshots.

The shooter fired off about 20 rounds and there was then a pause and a "period of quietness when everybody started running out," Coon said.

"I slipped on some blood and landed on a lady. I shook her and said, 'We need to go.' There was no response, so I presume she was dead," Coon said.

At least three people had been treated for chemical exposure, KUSA reported.

Colorado shooting survivor: 'He pointed the gun right at me'

PhotoBlog: More images from the scene of the shooting in Aurora

Further local coverage from KUSA

Paris premiere canceled
Reviewers of "The Dark Knight Rises," the third installment of the Batman franchise, have noted its dark, anxiety-fueled themes, which reminded some of the atmosphere in the days after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. It had been one of the most eagerly awaited films of the year, and theaters around the world began showing it at 12:01 a.m. Friday.

Follow @NBCNewsUS

Warner Bros. canceled the Paris premiere, which was scheduled for Friday evening.

"Warner Bros. and the filmmakers are deeply saddened to learn about this shocking incident. We extend our sincere sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims at this tragic time," it said in a statement.

Chris Dodd, chairman of the Motion Picture Association of America, said in a statement:

"We share the shock and sadness of everyone in the motion picture community at the news of this terrible event. We extend our prayers and deepest sympathies to the victims, their loved ones and all those affected by this tragedy."
F. Brinley Bruton, Kristen Dahlgren, Jay Gray, Charles Greene, Garrett Haake, Ian Johnston, Zoya Khan, Jim Miklaszewski, Daniel Strieff, Shawna Thomas, David Wyllie and Edgar Zuniga of NBC News and NBC stations KUSA of Denver and KNSD of San Diego contributed to this report.
 Related content from NBCNews.com:
 
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/20/12850048-man-calling-himself-the-joker-kills-12-injures-59-at-dark-knight-rises-screening-in-aurora-colorado-authorities-say?lite
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Brownsugar on July 21, 2012, 05:34:00 AM
All I can still muster is *speechless*
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 21, 2012, 09:57:27 AM
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png

apparently this guy is a PHD student in neuroscience. ah betting he is an atheist.

Nah, he must be a christian.  yuh eh see he call heself JOKER?
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on July 21, 2012, 10:42:51 AM
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png

apparently this guy is a PHD student in neuroscience. ah betting he is an atheist.

Nah, he must be a christian.  yuh eh see he call heself JOKER?

Look like he come from a church-going family.

Man cyah find wuk but buying an AR-15.

Well, like Ike and Tina, de 2nd Amendment go beat America some more cause America like it so.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 21, 2012, 11:30:43 AM
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png

apparently this guy is a PHD student in neuroscience. ah betting he is an atheist.

Nah, he must be a christian.  yuh eh see he call heself JOKER?

Look like he come from a church-going family.

Man cyah find wuk but buying an AR-15.

Well, like Ike and Tina, de 2nd Amendment go beat America some more cause America like it so.


what effect does the second amendment have on T&T?  We have more gun violence there than in all of Colarado or New York...put together!
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Sam on July 21, 2012, 04:44:53 PM
Trinidad worst than Colorado hundred times and counting.

Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 21, 2012, 05:55:15 PM
Colorado suspect was brilliant science student
By DAN ELLIOTT and MICHAEL R. BLOOD | Associated Press – 6 hrs ago.. .
.
DENVER (AP) — James Eagen Holmes came from a well-tended San Diego enclave of two-story homes with red-tiled roofs, where neighbors recall him as a clean-cut, studious young man of sparing words.
 
Tall and dark-haired, he stared clear-eyed at the camera in a 2004 high school yearbook snapshot, wearing a white junior varsity soccer uniform — No. 16. The son of a nurse, Arlene, and a software company manager, Robert, James Holmes was a brilliant science scholar in college.
 
The biggest mystery surrounding the 24-year-old doctoral student was why he would have pulled on a gas mask and shot dozens of people early Friday in a suburban Denver movie theater, as police allege.
 
In the age of widespread social media, no trace of Holmes could be found on Facebook, LinkedIn, MySpace, Twitter or anywhere on the Web. Either he never engaged or he scrubbed his trail.
 
A longtime neighbor in San Diego, where Holmes grew up, remembers only a "shy guy ... a loner" from a churchgoing family. In addition to playing soccer at Westview High School, he ran cross country.
 
The bookish demeanor concealed an unspooling life. Holmes struggled to find work after graduating with highest honors in spring 2010 with a neuroscience degree from the University of California, Riverside, said the neighbor, retired electrical engineer Tom Mai.
 
Holmes enrolled last year in a neuroscience Ph.D. program at the University of Colorado-Denver but was in the process of withdrawing, said school officials, who didn't provide a reason. The school later said in a statement that he left the program in June 2012.
 
As part of the advanced program in Denver, a James Holmes had been listed as making a presentation in May about Micro DNA Biomarkers in a class named "Biological Basis of Psychiatric and Neurological Disorders."
 
In academic achievement, "he was at the top of the top," recalled Riverside Chancellor Timothy P. White.
 
Holmes concentrated his study on "how we all behave," White added. "It's ironic and sad."
 
From a distance, Holmes' life appears unblemished, a young man with unlimited potential. There are no indications he had problems with police.
 
Somehow, the acclaimed student and quiet neighbor reached a point where he painted his hair red, called himself "The Joker," the green-haired villain from the Batman movies, according to New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, who said he had been briefed on the matter.
 
Authorities say Holmes arrived at the theater dressed in black, outfitted in a gas mask, ballistic helmet, vest and leggings, black tactical gloves and protectors on his throat and groin. He was armed with an assault-style rifle, a shotgun and Glock handgun.
 
Police said he started his attack by tossing two gas canisters into the theater, where he had bought a ticket for the midnight showing of "The Dark Knight Rises," the new Batman movie.
 
A federal law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing probe into the rampage, said Holmes bought four guns from retailers in the past two months.
 
Holmes bought his first Glock pistol in Aurora, Colo., on May 22. Six days later, he picked up a Remington shotgun in Denver. About two weeks later, he bought a .223 caliber Smith & Wesson rifle in Thornton, Colo., and then a second Glock in Denver on July 6 — 13 days before the shooting, the official said.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on July 22, 2012, 09:16:53 AM
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png

apparently this guy is a PHD student in neuroscience. ah betting he is an atheist.

Nah, he must be a christian.  yuh eh see he call heself JOKER?

Look like he come from a church-going family.

Man cyah find wuk but buying an AR-15.

Well, like Ike and Tina, de 2nd Amendment go beat America some more cause America like it so.


what effect does the second amendment have on T&T?  We have more gun violence there than in all of Colarado or New York...put together!

2nd amendment in T&T??! What, yuh want more coup or wha?

Besides, comparing T&T to Colorado and NY is comparing king orange to pommesitay. Instead, look at Juarez in mexico which is a transshipment point and have plenty guns (americans along the border make their living selling guns). A bet they have more guns in juarez than T&T and de murder rate in juarez worst that T&T.

Anyway, dis fella from Texas aksing how no one in the theatre had a gun to shoot back. De fella had a vest and protector on. How many citizen in that situation could take the gunman out without killing other people? These people watching too much movies.



Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 22, 2012, 10:34:56 AM
You missing the forest for the trees, there are also more guns in NY and Colorado than in T&T yet there are less gun deaths.

How do you correlate that FACT?

You comapring chenettes to guava.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 22, 2012, 11:00:06 AM

Don't blame the shootings on Darwin (or on God's wrath)






Jason Hatfield / Reuters


People hold a prayer vigil for the victims and first responders as police investigate an overnight shooting that killed 12 people at a midnight premiere of the new "Batman" movie in Aurora, Colo., on July 20.

By Alan Boyle


Follow @b0yle




Why did a dozen people die in this week's "Dark Knight" shootings? What was going on inside the head of James Eagan Holmes, the former neuroscience student who's suspected of killing those people in a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.? Questions about Holmes and his motives are the big unanswerables right now — but some folks are already suggesting that higher powers are at work. Higher powers like ... Charles Darwin?

"When students are taught they are no different from animals, they act like it," Rick Warren, the mega-church pastor and inspirational author, observed in a Twitter update just hours after the shootings.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That tweet came amid a flurry of homespun aphorisms and Bible quotes, so it's not fully clear that Warren was specifically blaming the violence on the teaching of evolutionary biology in schools. But the comment stirred up a hornet's nest among the theory's champions, including the University of Chicago's Jerry Coyne.

"I doubt that religion had anything to do with these murders, but religion is so quick to point the finger at science and evolution when they happen," Coyne wrote on his "Why Evolution Is True" blog. "So much for Rick Warren, the man Barack Obama chose to give the invocation at his inauguration in 2009."

'Where was God in all of this?'
Warren's comment wasn't the only one that seemed to touch on the link between godlessness and divine retribution. Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, brought up the link when he was asked about the Colorado shootings on the "Istook Live" radio show:

"We have been at war with the very pillars, the very foundation of this country ... and when ... you know ... what really gets me as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs and then a senseless crazy act of terror like this takes place," Gohmert said, according to a transcript on his House website.

"You know, when people say, where was God in all of this?" he said. "Well, you know, we don’t let ... in fact, we’ve threatened high school graduation participants that if they use God’s name that they’re going to be jailed, we had a principal of a school, and a superintendent or a coach down in Florida that were threatened with jail because they said the blessing at a voluntary off campus dinner. I mean, that kind of stuff ... where is God? Where, where? What have we done with God? We told him that we don’t want him around. I kind of like his protective hand being present."

Those comments drew a denunciation from the American Humanist Association — an organization whose slogan is "Good Without a God."

"Rep. Louis Gohmert truly tortures logic when he concludes that this violence had something to do with perceived attacks on majority faith in America," said Roy Speckhardt, the association's executive director. "At a time when families are mourning in the wake of this tragedy, Gohmert used it as an opportunity to push a religious agenda."

Christian? 'What a scary thought'
On the flip side, some atheists suggested that Christianity was to blame, capitalizing on reports that Holmes came from a Presbyterian family. On the "Debunking Christianity" blog, Cathy Cooper argues that Christian belief encourages the idea that all people are sinful, but that all believers are saved by faith alone. "Christianity provides believers with a basis for the belief that they are absolved from taking responsibility for their own bad behavior," she writes.

"Yes, James Holmes was a 'normal Christian boy' — what a scary thought," Cooper says.

Comments like that cause P.Z. Myers, a biologist at the University of Minnesota at Morris who describes himself as a godless liberal, to hang his head in shame.

"Christianity is piss-poor at doing more than providing lip-service against violence, but it’s at best a passive enabler." he wrote on his Pharyngula blog. Myers said the blame should instead be directed at a culture that glorifies violence, at laws that make it easy to acquire deadly weapons— and most of all, at the person who did all the shooting.

"Anything else is a distraction from correcting the real causes," he wrote.

As Ecclesiastes says...
There's nothing new under the sun when it comes to blaming God or godlessness for a disaster. Here are a few recent examples:
 •Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay once said that the 1999 Columbine school shootings in Colorado happened “because our school systems teach our children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial mud."
 •After Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast in 2005, Alabama state Sen. Henry E. "Hank" Erwin Jr. observed that the region has "always been known for gambling, sin and wickedness. ... It is the kind of behavior that ultimately brings the judgment of God."
 •Evangelical preacher and one-time presidential candidate Pat Robertson blamed a number of disasters on God's wrath — including 2010's catastrophic Haiti earthquake, which he attributed to that country's "pact to the devil."
 •Later that year, when an oil spill hit the Gulf of Mexico, Christian doomsayer Hal Lindsey cited the environmental catastrophe as "evidence that when you turn your back on Israel, especially when you've been a supporter, you're gonna see judgments come from God."
 
Natural catastrophes, and especially human-caused catastrophes like the one that took place this week, do pose a huge challenge for believers: Why does God allow the existence of seemingly senseless evil? If the power of prayer can save some believers, why would He be so cruel as to leave others unsaved? Do believers really think that the dead were more sinful than the living?

God doesn't own a gun
Marie Isom has a unique perspective on these questions: Not only is she a Christian and a blogger — she's also a survivor of the theater shootings. In a gripping post to her blog, "A Miniature Clay Pot," she recounts how she and her daughters were caught up in the chaos, threw themselves to the floor, and scrambled out of the theater when there was a break in the gunfire.

The blog posting is titled "So You Still Think God Is a Merciful God?" Here's the answer she gives:
 

"Yes.
 
"Yes, I do indeed.
 
"Absolutely, positively, unequivocally.
 
"Let’s get something straight: the theater shooting was an evil, horrendous act done by a man controlled by evil.  God did not take a gun and pull the trigger in a crowded theater. He didn’t even suggest it. A man did.
 
"In His sovereignty, God made man in His image with the ability to choose good and evil.
 
"Unfortunately, sometimes man chooses evil."
 

Follow @CosmicLog
.

If you're looking for some appropriate Sunday reading after a horrendous couple of days, you couldn't do much better than Isom's essay and her follow-up posting. I realize there's not much science in it, but that's why we call it Cosmic Log rather than Science Log.

Feel free to leave your comments and condolences in the space below.

Update for 1:15 a.m. ET July 22: There's more blame to go around. Jerry Newcombe of Truth in Action Ministries said in a commentary on the shootings that "we're reaping as we're sowing in this society."

"We said to God, 'Get out of the public arena,'" he wrote. "Lawsuit after lawsuit, often by misguided 'civil libertarians,' have chased away any fear of God in the land — at least in the hearts of millions." The result, Newcombe said, is that young people no longer dread the loss of Heaven or the pains of Hell.

"I don't think people would do those sorts of things if they truly understood the reality of Hell," he wrote.

The news director of the American Family Association, Fred Jackson, followed up with Newcombe on the "AFA Today" radio show. About 10 minutes into the show, Jackson said this:
 

"In the community there were community standards that reflected biblical principles, whether people knew it or not, the standard in the community was based on scripture. In that short period of time, roughly 40 years, we have seen such a transformation in values in our communities, whether it’s rural or whether it’s big city. I have to think that all of this, whether it’s the Hollywood movies, whether it’s what we see on the Internets, whether it’s liberal bias in the media, whether it’s our politicians changing public policy, I think all of those somehow have fit together — and I have to say also churches who are leaving the authority of scripture and losing their fear of God — all of those things have seem to have come together to give us these kinds of incidents."
 
Later in the show, around the 44-minute mark, Jackson added to the list of contributing factors:
 

"I think the source of this is multifaceted, but you can put it all, I think, under the heading of rebellion to God, a rejection of the God of the Bible. I think along with an education system that has produced our lawyers, our politicians, more teachers, more professors, all of that sort of thing, is our churches, mainline churches. ... The AFA Journal has been dealing with denominations that no longer believe in the God of the Bible, they no longer believe that Jesus is the only way of salvation, they teach that God is OK with homosexuality. This is just increasing more and more. It is mankind shaking its fist at the authority of God."
 
The Right Wing Watch and Gawker websites both picked up on these observations, and Right Wing Watch helpfully provides audio excerpts of the relevant quotes. (However, you can listen to the whole 54-minute show on iTunes for free.) Gawker's Louis Peitzman writes that "this message isn't just offensive: it's impossibly muddled," and he wonders whether anyone believes this sort of thing anymore. I think there are a lot of people who do. But what do you think?
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 22, 2012, 11:26:11 AM
Police: Colo. suspect planned attack for months
Associated PressBy MEAD GRUVER and THOMAS PEIPERT | Associated Press – 14 hrs ago

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    The theater shooting suspect in Colo. planned the attack with "calculation and deliberation," police said Saturday, receiving deliveries for months. President Obama will travel to the state to meet with victims' families on Sunday. (July 21)View Gallery

    The theater shooting suspect in Colo. planned the attack with "calculation and deliberation," police said Saturday, receiving deliveries for months. President Obama will travel to the state to meet with victims' …more

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    Firefighters and police gather after an explosion could be heard in front the apartment of shooting suspect James Holmes in Aurora, Colo., Saturday, July 21, 2012. Federal authorities detonated one small explosive and disarmed another inside Holmes' apartment, but several other explosive devices remained, said Aurora police Sgt. Cassidee Carlson. Twelve people were killed and dozens were injured in a shooting attack early Friday at a packed movie theater during a showing of the Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises." Police have identified Holmes, 24, as the suspected shooter. (AP Photo/Ed Andrieski)

    Firefighters and police gather …
    Federal agents outside the apartment of James Holmes in Aurora, Colo., Saturday, July 21, 2012. Federal authorities detonated one small explosive and disarmed another inside Holmes' apartment, but several other explosive devices remained, said Aurora police Sgt. Cassidee Carlson. Twelve people were killed and dozens were injured in a shooting attack early Friday at a packed movie theater during a showing of the Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises." Police have identified Holmes, 24, as the suspected shooter. (AP Photo/Ed Andrieski)

    Federal agents outside the apartment …

AURORA, Colo. (AP) — The shooting suspect accused in a deadly rampage inside a Colorado theater planned the attack with "calculation and deliberation," police said Saturday, receiving deliveries by mail that authorities believe armed him for battle and were used to rig his apartment with dozens of bombs.

Meanwhile, new details about 24-year-old James Holmes emerged, including summer jobs the suspect held in Southern California as a camp counselor and as an intern at a prominent research institute.

In Aurora, investigators spent hours Saturday removing explosive materials from inside Holmes' suburban Denver apartment a day after police said he opened fire and set off gas canisters in a theater minutes into a premiere of the Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises." The attack left 12 people dead and 58 injured.

His apartment was rigged with jars of liquids, explosives and chemicals that were booby trapped to kill "whoever entered it," Aurora Police Chief Dan Oates said, noting it would have likely been one of his officers.

Holmes received several mail deliveries over four months to his home and school and bought thousands rounds of ammunition on the Internet.

"He had a high volume of deliveries," Oates said. "We think this explains how he got his hands on the magazine, ammunition," he said, as well as the rigged explosives in his apartment.

"What we're seeing here is evidence of some calculation and deliberation," Oates added.

Inside the apartment, FBI Special agent James Yacone said bomb technicians neutralized what he called a "hyperbolic mixture" and an improvised explosive device containing an unknown substance. There also were multiple containers of accelerants.

"It was an extremely dangerous environment," Yacone said at a news conference, noting that anyone who walked in would have sustained "significant injuries" or been killed.

By late afternoon, all hazards have been removed from the Holmes' apartment and residents in surrounding buildings were allowed to return home, police said.

The exception was Holmes' apartment building, where authorities were still collecting evidence. Inside the apartment, authorities began covering the windows with black plastic to prevent onlookers from seeing in. Before they did, a man in an ATF T-shirt could be seen measuring a poster on a closet that advertised a DVD called "Soldiers of Misfortune." The poster showed several figures in various positions playing paintball, some wearing masks.

About 8 p.m., police left the apartment building carrying a laptop computer and a hard drive.

While authorities continued to refuse to discuss a possible motive for one of the deadliest mass shootings in recent U.S. history, details about Holmes' background as a student and would-be scientist trickled out Saturday.

Holmes had recently withdrawn from a competitive graduate program in neuroscience at the University of Colorado-Denver, where he was one of six students at the school to get National Institutes of Health grant money. He recently took an intense three-part, oral exam that marks the end of the freshman year of the four-year program there, but university officials would not say if he passed, citing privacy concerns.

In a resume posted on Monster.com, Holmes listed himself as an "aspiring scientist" and said he was looking for a job as a laboratory technician.

The resume, first obtained by The Press-Enterprise in Riverside, paints a picture of a brilliant young man brimming with potential: He worked as a summer intern at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies in La Jolla in 2006 and mapped the neurons of Zebra finches and studied the flight muscles of hummingbirds while an undergraduate at the University of California, Riverside.

He also worked as a cabin counselor to underprivileged children at a summer camp in Los Angeles in 2008. In a statement, Camp Max Straus confirmed Holmes had worked at Camp Max Straus for eight weeks. It provided no other detail about Holmes but said such counselors are generally responsible for the care and guidance of roughly 10 children.

Neighbors and former classmates in California said although Holmes was whip-smart, he was a loner who said little and was easily forgotten — until this week.

Mary Muscari, a criminology professor at Regis University in Denver who studies mass killings, said she was not surprised Holmes was studying neuroscience and mental disorders.

"It could be he was interested in that because he knows there's something different in him," she said.

Holmes was in solitary confinement for his protection at a county detention facility Saturday, held without bond on suspicion of multiple counts of first-degree murder. He was set for an initial hearing on Monday and has been appointed a public defender.

Among the deceased victims was a 6-year-old girl and a man who died on his 27th birthday and a day before his anniversary. Families grieved and waited at hospitals, which reported at least seven wounded still in critical condition Saturday and others with injuries that likely are permanent.

Veronica Moser, 6, had gone to the movies with her mother, who was drifting in and out of consciousness in a hospital intensive care unit, bullets lodged in her throat and a gunshot wound to her abdomen.

"Nobody can tell her about it," Annie Dalton said of her niece, Ashley Moser. "She is in critical condition, but all she's asking about is her daughter."

Veronica had just started swimming lessons on Tuesday, Dalton said.

"She was excited about life as she should be. She's a 6-year-old girl," her great aunt said.

Another victim, 27-year-old Matt McQuinn, was killed after diving in front of his girlfriend and her older brother to shield them from the gunfire, said his family's attorney, Rob Scott of Dayton, Ohio.

Alex Sullivan had planned a weekend of fun, first ringing in his 27th birthday with friends at the special midnight showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" and then celebrating his first wedding anniversary on Sunday.

"He was a very, very good young man," said Sullivan's uncle, Joe Loewenguth. "He always had a smile, always made you laugh. He had a little bit of comic in him."

During the attack early Friday, Oates said Holmes used a military-style semi-automatic rifle, a shotgun and a pistol to open fire on the unsuspecting theater-goers. He had bought the weapons at local gun stores within the last two months. He recently purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the Internet, the chief said.

Holmes also bought an urban assault vest, two magazine holders and a knife for just over $300 on July 2 from an online supplier of tactical gear for police and military personnel, according to the company.

Chad Weinman, CEO of TacticalGear.com, said his company processes thousands of orders each day, and there was nothing unusual in the one that Holmes placed.

"Everything Mr. Holmes purchased on July 2 is commercially available," Weinman said, adding he was "appalled" that the material was sold to Holmes before the shooting.

The Batman movie, the last in the trilogy starring Christian Bale, opened worldwide Friday with midnight showings in the U.S. "The Dark Knight Rises" earned $30.6 million in Friday morning midnight screenings, and, according to industry estimates, roughly $75 to 77 million on that day. That put it on track for a weekend total of around $165 million, which would be the second-highest opening weekend ever, following "The Avengers."

The shooting was the worst in the U.S. since the Nov. 5, 2009, attack at Fort Hood, Texas. An Army psychiatrist was charged with killing 13 soldiers and civilians and wounding more than two dozen others.

_____

Associated Press contributors to this report include Kristen Wyatt, Steven K. Paulson, Ivan Moreno, P. Solomon Banda in Aurora; Dan Elliott, Nick Riccardi and Colleen Slevin in Denver; Gillian Flaccus in Aurora, Colo; AP Entertainment Writer Jake Coyle in New York; M.L. Johnson in Chicago. Brian Skoloff in Salt Lake City; Monika Mathur and Jennifer Farrar at News Research Center in New York; and Alicia A. Caldwell and Eileen Sullivan in Washington.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: JDB on July 23, 2012, 05:14:38 AM
Anyway, dis fella from Texas aksing how no one in the theatre had a gun to shoot back. De fella had a vest and protector on. How many citizen in that situation could take the gunman out without killing other people? These people watching too much movies.

That is a common NRA inspired lie when these things happen. Because these events remind everyone (for 15 minutes) that the lack of gun control in the US is shamefull the NRA does turn it around to say that there is TOO MUCH gun control as things stand.

Hence you will always meet somebody who watch too much TV telling yuh that “if everybody had a gun, somebody woulda take him down”
Completely ignoring the fact that outside of law enforcement nobody is trained to deal with those situations. In that kind of melee yuh more likely to shoot another innocent, mistakenly target some other gun carrying samaritan/law enforcement or get shot yourself by a gun carrier or law enforcement.And if you are the kind of civilian who on constant alert for the rare threat of a mass massacre and priming yuhself to deal with it, you should not have a gun. That is how yuh end up with the Zimmerman’s of this world.

Never mind the fact that these nuts want to make a splash more than anything else. If ever they believe that they will meet resistance from an armed public they will just target some place where they know there is a more vulnerable crowd like a place where kids or females congregate.

The “more guns in more hands” argument is for the menally weak and the dsepicably dishonest.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: JDB on July 23, 2012, 05:53:09 AM
You missing the forest for the trees, there are also more guns in NY and Colorado than in T&T yet there are less gun deaths.

How do you correlate that FACT?

You comapring chenettes to guava.

You are playing a stats game and aggregating all gun violence together. Either that or you missing the fact that this is a specific kind of crime that may be curbed by a more restrictive gun policy.

Guns are very difficult to come by for the average TNT citizen. Criminals have them in abundance, that is expected as they are the tools of the trade. Law enforcement have them and business owners go through a somewhat rigorous documentation process to get them. You cannot buy ammunition willy-nilly and they don’t have guns marketed to and easily, accessible by, the general public in gun stores and walmart.

TnT does have much more gun related crime because the place in a mess and we have too much crime but there are no instances of mass murder by mentally unstable people  who have no checks on their access to guns and very few instances of children shooting children/themselvesin the home. As a result when somebody trip off in TnT they most they might do is drink gramoxone, go on a chopping spree or kill their own family. All tragic, but nowhere near the carnage that we see in the US and in TnT, there is no clear path for a non-criminal, socially displaced person to plan something of this scale.

Yuh using the fact that things shitty in TnT as an example to defend something different that is shitty in the US.
The sad thing is neither ploitical party has the will to really debate this because of the money made by gun manufacturers.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Touches on July 23, 2012, 08:07:26 AM
But under all d small talk...why the Police ent blow way he tail in that movietheater.

I cant understand how they harping he is neuroscience...he bright yadda yadda troubled.

If he wasn't white the papers woulda put a different spin on it, terrorism etc.



Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: dinho on July 23, 2012, 08:44:10 AM
Thanks JDB for finally talking some sense in this thread.

Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on July 23, 2012, 12:34:02 PM
But under all d small talk...why the Police ent blow way he tail in that movietheater.

I cant understand how they harping he is neuroscience...he bright yadda yadda troubled.

If he wasn't white the papers woulda put a different spin on it, terrorism etc.

why de cops didn't shoot him? dey would want to catch him for questioning. that make more sense. sounds like he didn't try death by cop. maybe he was hoping to meet batman in the interrogation room?

de media struggling to provide a narrative. if is an arab or a black man, dey could easily point and say - america is beautiful and dis fella hate beautiful america cause dat is how they do. now, dey struggling. dey have some pictures from de courtroom looking like a bewildered cesar romero.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: elan on July 23, 2012, 12:48:25 PM
Trayvon Martin got killed and he was a delinquent, pot head.


This dude killed 14 people and injured over 54 more and was a smart, PHD, easy going knida fella.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 23, 2012, 02:05:36 PM
You missing the forest for the trees, there are also more guns in NY and Colorado than in T&T yet there are less gun deaths.

How do you correlate that FACT?

You comapring chenettes to guava.

You are playing a stats game and aggregating all gun violence together. Either that or you missing the fact that this is a specific kind of crime that may be curbed by a more restrictive gun policy.

I am not playing a stats game.  I was pointing out that criminal endeavor will find a way.  This IS a specific crime and it is also a one off kinda crime, this does not happen every week despite the number of guns available!  Even with guns easy to come by, there has been a great reduction in crimes committed with guns in the USA as comapred to T&T  Ask yourself why.

Guns are very difficult to come by for the average TNT citizen. Criminals have them in abundance, that is expected as they are the tools of the trade. Law enforcement have them and business owners go through a somewhat rigorous documentation process to get them. You cannot buy ammunition willy-nilly and they don’t have guns marketed to and easily, accessible by, the general public in gun stores and walmart.

EXACTLY!   Even with the great difficulty there are still more murders in T&T.  I can bet you that a great deal of illegal guns in T&T also find their way into the hands of businessmen and the otherwise law abiding citizens.   What eh miss you eh pass you, there have been similar mass murders in other nations with strict gun rules also.  Maybe you have forgotten Norway.  They have all the restrictions we are advocating here in the USA and yet, some mad man found them and used them to kill a whole lot of youths

TnT does have much more gun related crime because the place in a mess and we have too much crime but there are no instances of mass murder by mentally unstable people  who have no checks on their access to guns and very few instances of children shooting children/themselvesin the home. As a result when somebody trip off in TnT they most they might do is drink gramoxone, go on a chopping spree or kill their own family. All tragic, but nowhere near the carnage that we see in the US and in TnT, there is no clear path for a non-criminal, socially displaced person to plan something of this scale.

Thing is there are supposed to be restrictions on mentally unstable persons owning guns in the USA!  But when a scholar and seemingly upwardly mobile person trips off without prior notice how do you apply the laws?  besides, if a man is determined to take out a lot of people in the USA or Trinidad ot Norway, he will find the guns legally or illegally.   You comparing a man chopping people up as nowhere near the carnage?  I suggest that you need to be a much sicker individual to do something as PERSONAL as chop and hack someone to death.  breds that is way sicker than shooting eh.  Even when you can only chop 3 or 4 people that takes a lot more sickness.  Phew....!

Yuh using the fact that things shitty in TnT as an example to defend something different that is shitty in the US.
The sad thing is neither ploitical party has the will to really debate this because of the money made by gun manufacturers.

I am not defending anyhting, I was merely pointing out that where there is a will there is a way.  The man made a post and I responded...I am a proponent of gun control.  Truthfully, I kinda understand your position, but to me it is weak.

Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: just cool on July 23, 2012, 02:08:54 PM
America is de drama queen and de 2nd Amendment is de abusive Ex.

You must be de cuckold husband den.

wey de rimshot smiley when yuh want it?
That is fighting words oui! rabbit boy, yuh look fuh dat!
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Bakes on July 23, 2012, 02:10:33 PM
Trayvon Martin got killed and he was a delinquent, pot head.


This dude killed 14 people and injured over 54 more and was a smart, PHD, easy going knida fella.

The delinquent pot head talk came about nearly a month after the fact... the book not yet written on this suspect.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: just cool on July 23, 2012, 02:10:55 PM
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png

apparently this guy is a PHD student in neuroscience. ah betting he is an atheist.
WOW they doh call yuh rabbit fuh nutten, nice quick recovery, i'm impressed.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: truetrini on July 23, 2012, 04:02:44 PM
He is actually a church going Christian good boy.
Thoughts and Prayers goes out to the victims (I think this was a scene reenacted from the comic books)

the shooter

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/bGq2W1C5jVJGqEgzE4d_5w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTMxMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thelookout/Screen-shot-2012-07-20-at-12.02.31-PM.png

apparently this guy is a PHD student in neuroscience. ah betting he is an atheist.
WOW they doh call yuh rabbit fuh nutten, nice quick recovery, i'm impressed.

It takes very little to impress you.  As I pointed out the guy is a Christian why else would he call himself Joker?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/james-holmes-colorado-shooter-described-as-normal-christian-boy-amid-mental-health-investigation-photo-78623/

But in all seriousness I don't think we should be making this into a christian versus atheist debate this is not the time for that.  This is a sick person, christian or not.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Bakes on July 23, 2012, 07:52:07 PM
But under all d small talk...why the Police ent blow way he tail in that movietheater.

I cant understand how they harping he is neuroscience...he bright yadda yadda troubled.

If he wasn't white the papers woulda put a different spin on it, terrorism etc.





Police never encounter him inside de theater.  As for his background... it normal when an otherwise seemingly normal person loss dey mind and do something like this for people to try and make sense of what might cause it.  De Nigerian fella who had de bomb in he draws, they examined his life too... talking about how he went to England to study and how he father was rich upper class.  They was even looking for clues from he time in England to try and explain it.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Bourbon on July 24, 2012, 07:57:24 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/us/other-states-and-other-times-would-have-posed-obstacles-for-gunman.html?pagewanted=all

 If the man who killed 12 people and shot dozens more in a packed Colorado movie theater last week had tried to carry out his scheme in a different state, or at an earlier time, he would have faced more obstacles.


The suspect, James E. Holmes, bought a semiautomatic assault rifle, two semiautomatic pistols and a 12-gauge shotgun at stores in Colorado and 6,000 rounds of ammunition online along with a 100-round magazine. He did so after easily obtaining a permit at a gun store, since he had no criminal record.

In California and Massachusetts, most assault rifles and large-capacity ammunition magazines are banned, as they were across the country from 1994 to 2004 by federal law. Before a 1986 change in the law, ammunition could not be legally sent by mail.

And if Mr. Holmes had tried to buy his guns in New Jersey, he would have had to apply to local law enforcement agencies or the state police — not to a gun shop — and answer questions about personal history, including whether he had ever been “observed by a psychiatrist” for “a mental condition,” even a temporary one, and to waive all confidentiality. His behavior, which some have described as erratic in recent months, might have raised concern.

“For people who are somewhat disturbed or behave oddly under stress, such an application process becomes another screen to weed them out,” said Paul S. Appelbaum, a professor of psychiatry, medicine and law at Columbia University.

Few issues — the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and climate change come to mind — have as extensive or tortured a history of entrenched disagreement as the relationship between violence and gun control laws does. Feuding scholarly traditions, each backed by statistical analysis, assert either that tighter laws reduce killing or have nothing to do with it.

And while gun ownership rates and gun restrictions have declined over the past 50 years, murder rates have risen and fallen. Today, with fewer gun control laws in place than 20 years ago, homicide rates are down.

What can be asserted is that the states with the strictest gun laws — Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York — have among the lowest gun death rates, according to figures from the federal Centers for Disease Prevention and Control, and those with the most lenient laws — Alabama, Alaska, Louisiana, Mississippi — have among the highest.

Whether there is any causal relationship between the two remains in dispute, as does whether more deaths can be attributed to the availability of more guns.

Philip J. Cook, a professor of public policy at Duke University, put it this way: “My research over 35 years demonstrates that the effect of gun availability is not to increase the crime rate but to intensify the crime that exists and convert assaults into murders. I have never seen evidence that gun access influences the volume of violent crime. But when you add guns to a violent situation, you get a higher level of murder.”

That may seem an unassailable conclusion: When angry or disturbed people are armed with, say, knives rather than guns, they cause fewer deaths. And indeed, Mr. Cook is not alone in drawing it. An extensive review of the scholarly literature by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center found that where there were more guns there was more homicide, both across the United States and throughout other high-income nations.

But Gary Kleck, a professor of criminal justice at Florida State University, believes that guns do not bring murder; murder brings guns.

“There is unanimous evidence that higher homicide rates lead to people getting more guns,” he said, in part because people arm themselves for protection. “But our statistical analysis finds no homicide effect of more guns.”

Asked about the lower homicide rates in states like New York and Massachusetts, he said that they had lower rates of violence before any gun control laws were put into effect.

“It’s like comparing the United States and England,” he said. “Neither had gun laws before about 1920, and England had a homicide rate about one-eighth of the United States’.”

Mr. Kleck does not disagree that in Massachusetts or New Jersey, faced with law enforcement screening, Mr. Holmes would have found it harder to get his gun permit. But he opposes such a system because he does not trust the police to decide who should own a gun.

“I am not comfortable with their deciding whether others can have guns or not,” he said. “Police think the ideal is for them to be armed and for the rest of us not to be. I don’t see it that way.”

Efforts to measure whether gun control laws reduce homicide have produced little. In fact, Professor Cook of Duke said that he and a colleague examined the impact of the Brady Law, signed with great fanfare by President Bill Clinton in 1993 and requiring background checks before a firearm can be bought from a federally licensed dealer. They found virtually no reduction in homicide after the law was put into effect.

Professor Cook said, however, that many guns are bought and sold outside that system, making the data hard to evaluate.

This is a point made by nearly all researchers, that gun laws have generally been so poorly enforced with so many loopholes that judging their effectiveness has been enormously challenging. Even if Mr. Holmes had been blocked from buying a specific model of assault rifle in California, Massachusetts or New York State, he would most likely have been able to buy a similar gun not covered by the law.

Efforts to renew a federal ban on assault weapons or large-capacity ammunition magazines have gone nowhere. Americans have grown increasingly mistrustful of gun control, viewing it as ineffective.

Daniel W. Webster, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore, still believes that the laws in a number of states have proved themselves.

He published a widely cited study in 2009 that found that states with strong gun dealer regulations and oversight as well as tight sale permits had less diversion of guns to criminals. States without such measures had more guns diverted to an illegal context, typically within a year of sale.

In a new study he plans to publish soon, he found that the same sorts of accountability measures helped prevent guns from going across state lines to criminals; states without such measures ended up exporting more guns into the hands of criminals.

“What keeps guns from criminals?” he asked. “Good gun control clearly does, and the lack of it facilitates diversion. All of the research shows that availability of guns is important. If a guy goes into a theater with a knife or a club, that is very different than if he goes in with a gun. Guns matter.”
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on July 25, 2012, 11:50:57 AM
so dude fail an exam and that send him over the edge. could happen to anyone.

“It’s like comparing the United States and England,” he said. “Neither had gun laws before about 1920, and England had a homicide rate about one-eighth of the United States’.”

how to explain that?
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: lefty on August 05, 2012, 05:12:45 PM
more carnage again........ (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sikh-temple-shooting-175002467.html) and people still fighting dong talk of stronger gun laws...........oh yeah guns doh kill people ::) ..........steups
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: elan on August 05, 2012, 06:42:29 PM
more carnage again........ (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sikh-temple-shooting-175002467.html) and people still fighting dong talk of stronger gun laws...........oh yeah guns doh kill people ::) ..........steups

If everyone was praying with they gun on they waist he would not have killed so many.

Believe in God but put your Faith in guns.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Football supporter on August 05, 2012, 09:46:19 PM
Guns don't kill anyone. People do! But I believe in much stricter gun control and heavy sentences for those without permits. As far as I'm concerned, if you own an illegal gun, it's because you're prepared to use it.

That said, even if you get guns off the streets, people will use knives, baseball bats, petrol bombs, you name it. The real challenge is to stop people wanting to kill each other, and that nasty side of the human has been embedded in humans since they were living in caves.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: lefty on August 06, 2012, 07:27:23 AM
Guns don't kill anyone. People do! But I believe in much stricter gun control and heavy sentences for those without permits. As far as I'm concerned, if you own an illegal gun, it's because you're prepared to use it.

That said, even if you get guns off the streets, people will use knives, baseball bats, petrol bombs, you name it. The real challenge is to stop people wanting to kill each other, and that nasty side of the human has been embedded in humans since they were living in caves.

the only problem is most times these incidents are perpetrated by legal gun owners that either simply trip off or on their way to tripping off this is the US we talkin bout and is no scene to have ah arsenal in yuh house....yes yuh could kill people wit anyting at anytime but d average american can plan and execute mass murder at anytime with d greatest of ease.......dat is a special kinda crime dread, ah special kinda crime dat too damn easy to commit............it have people in d states shouldn't have second amendment rights
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Deeks on August 06, 2012, 04:37:32 PM
The real challenge is to stop people wanting to kill each other

FS, this thing going since "Cain kill AbeL" you think it go stop now.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: Deeks on August 06, 2012, 04:40:31 PM
Guns don't kill anyone. People do! But I believe in much stricter gun control and heavy sentences for those without permits. As far as I'm concerned, if you own an illegal gun, it's because you're prepared to use it.

That said, even if you get guns off the streets, people will use knives, baseball bats, petrol bombs, you name it. The real challenge is to stop people wanting to kill each other, and that nasty side of the human has been embedded in humans since they were living in caves.

the only problem is most times these incidents are perpetrated by legal gun owners that either simply trip off or on their way to tripping off this is the US we talkin bout and is no scene to have ah arsenal in yuh house....yes yuh could kill people wit anyting at anytime but d average american can plan and execute mass murder at anytime with d greatest of ease.......dat is a special kinda crime dread, ah special kinda crime dat too damn easy to commit............it have people in d states shouldn't have second amendment rights

Allyuh don't know how the NRA does frighten them congrssmen into voting against any gun laws. Even if the law make sense the NRA does say no. But more people have to die before they pass legislation. Unfortunately. So dear forumites in the US, always be on alert.
Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: soccerman on August 06, 2012, 11:27:03 PM
There was also another shooting spree yesterday with innocent people dead.

Gunman, six others dead at Wisconsin Sikh templeBy the CNN Wire Staff

Oak Creek, Wisconsin (CNN) -- The FBI will investigate Sunday's rampage at a Sikh temple in a Milwaukee suburb as a "domestic terrorist-type incident" that left at least six people and the gunman dead, the town's police chief said.

Another three people were wounded, including the first officer to respond to the scene, Oak Creek Police Chief John Edwards said. A second officer returned fire, killing the suspect, according to the chief.

All three wounded -- one of whom was shot in the abdomen and chest, another in the extremities and face and the third in the neck -- were in critical condition Sunday night at Milwaukee's Froedtert Hospital, the hospital said in a statement.

Terror, tragedy for tight-knit Sikh community

The congregation's president was among the wounded, his nephew said.



Emergency calls in temple shooting

Gunman opens fire in Sikh temple

Police at scene of Sikh temple shooting

Temple member describes shooting And another man told the CNN affiliate WTMJ, "Nobody's angry here. We're just confused. Was this a random act? Was this directed at us because of the way we look?"

Authorities have not identified the gunman by name, though Thomas Ahern, a spokesman with the ATF's Chicago division, described him as a white male roughly 40 years of age. No connection has been established between the shooter and the temple, he added.

Like other officials, Ahern said authorities have not determined a motive, adding "we are a long way away from that right now." Teresa Carlson, special agent in charge at the FBI's Milwaukee division, said late Sunday that investigators are still assessing whether this "might be an act of domestic terrorism, no motive has been determined at this time."

The Sikh religion originated in northern India around 1500 and has about 25 million followers, 700,000 of them in the United States, according to the Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund.

Sikhs tout equality, service to others

Because of their customary beards and turbans, Sikh men are often confused for Hindus or Muslims -- and have been the targets of hate crimes since the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, said Surinder Singh, a spokesman for the Guru Nanak Mission Society of Atlanta.

Several Sikh leaders and members recalled Sunday the killing of a Sikh man in Arizona in apparent retaliation for the attacks that had been carried out days earlier by the Islamic terrorist group al Qaeda, as well as other less severe crimes targeting the group over the past decade.

Community continue to blend in and stand out

"There's always an apprehension and a sense of fear that this kind of incident will take place anywhere, anytime," said Rajwant Singh, chairman of the Sikh Council on Religion and Education.

Sunday's attack occurred about 10:30 a.m. (11:30 a.m. ET), when temple members were reading scriptures and cooking food in preparation for the main Sunday service and community lunch, said Kanwardeep Singh Kaleka, a member of the congregation and the nephew of its president.

Kaleka was not at the temple at the time of the shooting, but helped police interview witnesses in the aftermath. He said members described the attacker as a bald, white man, dressed in a white T-shirt and black pants and with a 9/11 tattoo on one arm -- which "implies to me that there's some level of hate crime there."

A law enforcement official briefed on the investigation confirmed the shooter was wearing a white T-shirt and did not have a bulletproof vest.


Witnesses: This is sad, devastating

Temple spokesman: Hostages held inside

Police at scene of Sikh temple shooting Kaleka said the gunman started shooting in the parking lot, "then entered into the temple and proceeded to open fire."

"It seems the few casualties that have been divulged to me have been the equivalent of priests, the holy leaders of our people," he said. "My uncle is one of the administrators of the temple. It's mainly those individuals who have been targeted or shot. Maybe it's because the ladies were fortunate enough to dodge it out, but so far most of the people I've heard have been shot and killed were all turbaned males."

Police searched the suspect's home, "a short distance" from the temple, on Sunday evening, according to a law enforcement source with direct knowledge of the investigation. A single 9mm semi-automatic pistol believed to have been used by the gunman was found at the scene, along with the wounded officer's weapon, the source said.

Initial reports were that there may have been multiple attackers, but police found no indication of another gunman, said Bradley Wentlandt, the police chief in nearby Greenfield.

The Oak Creek temple, or gurdwara, opened in 2007 and has a congregation of more than 350. Family members gathered outside told WTMJ that survivors were being taken to a nearby bowling alley so they could be interviewed by police.

"Our dear ones and near ones are injured and hurt, and we are trying to find out what happened," said Darshan Dhaliwal, a congregation leader.

Congregation president Satwant Kaleka was shot and wounded when he attempted to tackle the gunman, his son, Amardeep Kaleka told WTMJ. His mother -- who hid in a closet during the violence -- was too distraught to talk, he said.

State Rep. Josh Zepnick said many members of the Milwaukee area's Sikh community are among his constituents and described himself as being "torn to shreds" by the attack.

"It's a very peace-loving community that has successfully integrated and assimilated into the metropolitan Milwaukee area," Zepnick told WTMJ.

And state Rep. Mark Honadel, whose district includes the temple, called the attack "craziness."

"Unfortunately, when this type of stuff hits your area, you say to yourself, 'Why?' But in today's society, I don't think there's any place that's free from idiots," Honadel said.

The American branch of the World Sikh Council, meanwhile, said Sunday was "a troubling day, not only for Sikh-Americans, but also for all Americans."

Sikhs in U.S. and India react to the rampage

"We urge all to pray for the victims, their families and friends, and the surrounding community," the group said. "We also express our gratitude towards the law enforcement authorities for their prompt and effective response to the situation as it unfolded."

National and state political leaders -- including Gov. Scott Walker -- also offered condolence after the killings, which came two weeks after a massacre at a Colorado movie theater that left 12 dead and dozens more wounded.

Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney called the slaying "a senseless act of violence and a tragedy that should never befall any house of worship."

And from the White House, President Barack Obama said the United States had been "enriched" by Sikhs, "who are a part of our broader American family."

"My administration will provide whatever support is necessary to the officials who are responding to this tragic shooting and moving forward with an investigation," Obama said.

Rajwant Singh, from the Sikh Council on Religion and Education, put the onus on politicians, the media, academics and non-profit leaders to educate Americans about diverse groups and act "to lessen this kind of rage." He called it a tragedy Sikhs, growing up in the United States feel as if they don't belong in this country after incidents such as this.

"Everybody should feel at home," he said. "This nation belongs to everyone."

Title: Re: 14 dead, 50 wounded in shooting at Colorado theater, police chief says
Post by: ribbit on August 07, 2012, 02:27:50 PM
considering de US military is a PRIMARY contact point for mentally 4ked-up killers, dey could do a little more than they did for this a**hole. dey could step up in a bigger way to be more socially responsible. dey shoulda send some of these to clear landmines or IEDs. instead is "(dis)honourable discharge" which seem like another way of dusting dey hand and saying "not my problem". dey dumping dem into a society that barely have a social safety net to handle a very specific problem.

tt, airman, yuh come across any of dese fellas in your travels?

==


Military, music marked temple suspect's path to Wisconsin
 (http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/06/us/wisconsin-shooting-suspect/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

Oak Creek, Wisconsin (CNN) -- Soldier. Singer. Skinhead.

Investigators spent Monday trying to figure out what led 40-year-old Wade Michael Page from repairing missiles for the Army to a Sikh temple in suburban Milwaukee, where he was killed by police at the end of a Sunday morning rampage.

The shaven-headed Page, whose tattoos included the Celtic cross adopted by white supremacist groups, had been the front man for a white-power rock band called "End Apathy" for several years. Two former neighbors identified him from photos on the band's MySpace page.

His path appears to have taken him from Colorado to Milwaukee, where he enlisted in the Army in 1992; back to Colorado; to North Carolina, where he started the band; and then back to the Milwaukee area, where he had been "a short time" before the shootings, Oak Creek Police Chief John Edwards told reporters Monday.

The Army trained Page first as a mechanic for the Hawk anti-aircraft missile system, then as a psychological warfare specialist. He rose to the rank of sergeant before losing a stripe due to "patterns of misconduct," according to a Pentagon official who spoke on condition of anonymity. In October 1998, he received a general discharge under honorable conditions, the official said.

Christopher Robillard of Oregon, who described Page as "my closest friend" in the service more than a decade ago, said Page was pushed out of the military for showing up to formation drunk.

He described Page as "a very kind, very smart individual -- loved his friends. One of those guys with a soft spot." But even then, Page "was involved with white supremacy," Robillard said.

"He would talk about the racial holy war, like he wanted it to come," Robillard said. "But to me, he didn't seem like the type of person to go out and hurt people."

Later Monday, Robillard told CNN's "Piers Morgan Tonight" that Page likely sought attention to his beliefs "because he was always the loner type of person. Even in a group of people, he would be off alone."

Teresa Carlson, the special agent in charge of the FBI's Milwaukee office, said investigators have been told Page may have been involved with the white supremacist movement, but that hadn't been confirmed. No motive for Sunday's attack had been established, but the FBI was investigating whether the killings at the Sikh temple were an act of domestic terrorism, she said.

Page moved back to Denver after his discharge, where he had a tough time in civilian life "and was basically living on the street," Robillard said. It was during that period that Page joined a "racist band" and started to get his body inked, his Army buddy told CNN.

"I asked him why he was aligning himself with this stuff," Robillard said. "He really didn't answer. He would duck it."

Page had a girlfriend who left him for another member of the band, which then kicked him out, Robillard said. The last time they saw each other -- more than 10 years ago -- Robillard said Page was on a motorcycle trip across the country.

It was a trip Page recounted in 2010, in an online interview about his band End Apathy. He founded it in in the small town of Nashville in eastern North Carolina, where he ended up after bouncing around the country from California to West Virginia.

"I am originally from Colorado and had always been independent, but back in 2000 I set out to get involved and wanted to basically start over," he said.

The band put out at least two recordings through a label that promoted them on the neo-Nazi website Stormfront. In a 2010 interview posted online, Page said his lyrics "vary from sociological issues, religion, and how the value of human life has been degraded by being submissive to tyranny and hypocrisy that we are subjugated to."

End Apathy played gigs in North Carolina and in the Midwest, he said. While Page shared the stage with many similar bands, he wasn't a movement leader and doesn't appear to have been involved in any criminal acts, said Mark Potok, who tracks hate groups for the Southern Poverty Law Center in Alabama.

Nevertheless, Potok called Page "a neo-Nazi skinhead in the very thick of the white supremacist movement."

In a statement posted on its website Monday, the band's imprint, Label 56, said it had removed "all images and products related to End Apathy."

"We have worked hard over the years to promote a positive image and have posted many articles encouraging people to take a positive path in life, to abstain from drugs, alcohol, and just general behavior that can affect ones life negatively," the company said.

"We do not wish to profit from this tragedy financially or with publicity," it added. "In closing, please do not take what Wade did as honorable or respectable and please do not think we are all like that."

It wasn't clear Monday what brought Page back to Wisconsin, where he lived first with a girlfriend, then on his own.

David Brown, a former neighbor in a South Milwaukee apartment building, said Page would frequently lift weights and occasionally leave home with a guitar. But every time he tried to talk to his neighbor, Brown said, he would just grunt and walk on by.

And a former landlord, Kurt Weins, told CNN that Page worked nights at a welding supply business and had recently broken up with a girlfriend when he signed his lease.

"He was quiet. I saw no violence in him," said Weins, who has been questioned by federal agents since Sunday's killings.

"The feds asked me how he paid, whether he had weapons. I had no idea he had weapons," he said.

Robillard said he knows Page's name will now be inextricably linked with hate and bloodshed, "but that's not how I remember him."

"It's the racial holy war talk I always took as something he would vent about, and not act on it," he said. "I never pictured him as someone who would do anything. I thought maybe he was just saying it for attention."