Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: warmonga on September 01, 2012, 02:23:50 PM
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dais all dey is... bout dey having dey own celebration... good going .. Trini's see how dumb allyuh is ... allyuh is a bunch of freeking sour puss.. happy independence to My Fellow Trini's
war
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Granted PNM had their celebrations planned since June, but since you know so much, carry on ::)
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Granted PNM had their celebrations planned since June, but since you know so much, carry on ::)
u have time sweetie ::) :D
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Granted PNM had their celebrations planned since June, but since you know so much, carry on ::)
On top of which, they asked to government from early to assist with planning the Independence celebrations but the UNC PP government hell bent on re-writing history, wanted to sideline Dr. Williams and minimise the FACT that their "ancestors" opposed independence. The PNM say to hell with all yuh we doing we own thing. Then last minute, last minute Tewarie and dem organise the Woodfood Sq. thing and making it look like the PNM are the ones who just damn miserable.....
Normally, I doh take on Warmonga and he shyte but just to set the record straight for the other forumites who eh know what really going on. The foreign based in particular who tend to get misguided..... ::) ::)
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as I say "sour puss" and dey going to be like dat for many many years to come because PP UNC whatever dey call themselves going to run TNT for di next 100 years ..
war
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PNM dragged T&T down
Story Created: Sep 4, 2012 at 9:55 PM ECT
(
Story Updated: Sep 4, 2012 at 9:55 PM ECT )
Upon reflection, I believe as a country we should have achieved First World status some years ago, but have been denied this by a government of mismanagement, corruption, nepotism, biasness and intellectual bankruptcy in the People's National Movement (PNM).
Two of the major stumbling blocks in our development as an independent nation came just eight years after independence, and 20 years following, due to the PNM's lack of equity for all and dishonesty to many.
The 1970 uprising put fear into the minds of both foreign investors and local businesses that set us back at least 15 years. The fear that we could not manage our affairs seemed to hold. And then, 20 years later, an attempted coup set us back a further 50 years.
What the movers of our economy saw was that the perpetrators won their freedom shortly after, without any fuss, and they had to function with them in an environment of business as usual. Two events that would have had opposite decisions in any First World country.
I remember in 1962 there was a deep fear in the minds of the adults in my community who were wondering if they will have to go through a ration programme again, as they did in their teens. That fear, I am sure, gave them the drive to be more productive. They did produce, but were hampered by a bunch of inept and selfish leaders from within the PNM.
Twice before we had opportunities to achieve First World status, but were dragged back by a self-seeking bunch. We have another opportunity and the resources, both human and financial, to achieve our goals as an independent nation. The leaders of the People's Partnership must do all that is necessary to prevent the PNM and its cohorts from dragging us away from true independence.
Lystra Lythe
Sangre Grande
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lystra lythe is a semiliterate bamsy licker dat always talks shit
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I don't know why they allow people like that lystra lythe woman a forum to post such tripe.
How did the 1970 uprising set TnT back 15 years? I wonder where she pull that number from? How many of the businesses that were present in 1970 survived through the 80's or are still present? The major foreign companies that were there at the time the oil companies and Alcoa stayed they didn't flee so I don't know what this woman talkin bout.
But then again anyone who thinks of a country in terms of first second and third world clearly doesn't have an understanding of modern world economies.
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I don't know why they allow people like that lystra lythe woman a forum to post such tripe.
How did the 1970 uprising set TnT back 15 years? I wonder where she pull that number from? How many of the businesses that were present in 1970 survived through the 80's or are still present? The major foreign companies that were there at the time the oil companies and Alcoa stayed they didn't flee so I don't know what this woman talkin bout.
But then again anyone who thinks of a country in terms of first second and third world clearly doesn't have an understanding of modern world economies.
well people lacking working brain cells does agree wit she......it was after all posted here, I assume to fight a point..........eerh whatever that is ;)
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The companies that left TT after 70s left because of world economic business climate. TT land oil had depleted. The oil companies did not want to go off shore. Only Amoco decided to do that. BP sold out. Texaco sold out, Shell sold out. Esso(Exxon) left. The only company I remeber that came in was Tesoro. Tate&Lyle(Caroni) wanted out because Euro. beet sugar was cheaper and England was going into the Euro. Coca, coffee, Banana was not making that much money. Oil was about 10 bucks a barrell. So TT was not getting plenty money. We had to import most of the oil from Venezuela to run the refineries. We hardly had money. Hence 69 to 73 was strikes by oil, sugar and public servants.
When the Arabs started the oil embargo and the price of oil went to 25/30/40 dollars a barrel, that is when we got the big windfall. The PNM gov't did not know how to handle that kind of money in the beginning. HENCE all the wastage and thiefin'. However, Williams decided that we should go into petrochemical production. That is why we have Pt. Lisas complex. But even before they built that, plenty people on both side of the aisle thought going into petrochemical production was not sustainable in the longrun, but Eric with he hard head thought otherwise.
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PNM dragged T&T down
Story Created: Sep 4, 2012 at 9:55 PM ECT
(
Story Updated: Sep 4, 2012 at 9:55 PM ECT )
Upon reflection, I believe as a country we should have achieved First World status some years ago, but have been denied this by a government of mismanagement, corruption, nepotism, biasness and intellectual bankruptcy in the People's National Movement (PNM).
Two of the major stumbling blocks in our development as an independent nation came just eight years after independence, and 20 years following, due to the PNM's lack of equity for all and dishonesty to many.
The 1970 uprising put fear into the minds of both foreign investors and local businesses that set us back at least 15 years. The fear that we could not manage our affairs seemed to hold. And then, 20 years later, an attempted coup set us back a further 50 years.
What the movers of our economy saw was that the perpetrators won their freedom shortly after, without any fuss, and they had to function with them in an environment of business as usual. Two events that would have had opposite decisions in any First World country.
I remember in 1962 there was a deep fear in the minds of the adults in my community who were wondering if they will have to go through a ration programme again, as they did in their teens. That fear, I am sure, gave them the drive to be more productive. They did produce, but were hampered by a bunch of inept and selfish leaders from within the PNM.
Twice before we had opportunities to achieve First World status, but were dragged back by a self-seeking bunch. We have another opportunity and the resources, both human and financial, to achieve our goals as an independent nation. The leaders of the People's Partnership must do all that is necessary to prevent the PNM and its cohorts from dragging us away from true independence.
Lystra Lythe
Sangre Grande
Very poor Journalism. No facts or examples. Relies on "hopefulness" to make readers believe.
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That just goes to show that any monkey with ah degree could write some second hand me down information that they got from a duncey relative without doing any research and have an open forum to poison the uninformed. i told allyuh from early that i really hate they UNC country indian party, dem only come for power to help indians, and segregate the population, impoverish and mash up the country.
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Indeed. They are also rewriting the history of T&T so the Indian community can be proud of being "Indian" first then Trinidadian second. The truth is that the sporting and cultural accomplishments made by the Africans in T&T (Soca Warriors, Olympics, pan, etc), are what really put Trinbago on the map.
On another note, there was an article this week or last week where Kamla suggested that tassa should be honoured just like pan. This is no different than 2005, when some members in the Indian business community were only willing to sponsor the soca warriors if the name was changed to "chutney soca warriors" or "soca chutney warriors". Rewriting history?
The idea of "honouring tassa just like pan" or "soca chutney warriors" are all attempts to increase the sense of belongingness amongst Indians in T&T. Moreover, these are also attempts to tell the world that Indians in T&T have equally contributed to the well known accomplishments made by T&T on the global stage. Again, rewriting history...
In case you dont know, tassa came from Iran.. Indians never created it in Trinidad. So if we are going to honour tassa in the same manner as pan, then we might as well honour the trumpet or piano in the same manner.
I heard that Ban Ki Moon made a statement about pan being an "invention by Indians in Trinidad". Again rewriting history..
Brownsugar is right...The African is being erased from the history books in T&T.
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Brownsugar is right...The African is being erased from the history books in T&T.
Gawd u like Mike Maurice..you blinded by d sun...if yuh iz such ah academic...who is d Indian and African being erased by? Think ahead brother...not behind....
D Indian & African...have never had any severe tribal wars... while d landlord (be my guest)laughing at all ah we......move on people.....together we aspire...together we achieve!!!
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Brownsugar is right...The African is being erased from the history books in T&T.
Gawd u like Mike Maurice..you blinded by d sun...if yuh iz such ah academic...who is d Indian and African being erased by? Think ahead brother...not behind....
D Indian & African...have never had any severe tribal wars... while d landlord (be my guest)laughing at all ah we......move on people.....together we aspire...together we achieve!!!
agree!
And no African being erased...the Indian diaspora is requesting inclusion in the history books and rightfully so...as do the Chinese and the Syrians and whoever
ironic it sounding like white americans getting vex at including african american history in the history books...
difference is we sounding like a bunch of pothounds fighting over scraps...
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The fact two major political parties practice segregational politricks. The PP is doing nonsense but this fact does not make PNM the solution. All this talk about Indian and African is disheartening, yes I am Indian,it would seem that would make me a second class Trinidadian cause after all Trinis of African descent put us on the map. So while I Can be happy that mr Walcott won a gold, it seem that I also need to be aware that he comes from a section of the population that excludes me. Tell me when can I just be happy and proud because someone from the only place I will ever consider to be home Has done something impressive.
For myself I am Trinidadian first, a fact that anyone who calls me Indian is made aware off, the steel pan is distinctively trini that cannot be said for the tassa.
Enough with the crabs in a bucket already.
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The fact two major political parties practice segregational politricks. The PP is doing nonsense but this fact does not make PNM the solution. All this talk about Indian and African is disheartening, yes I am Indian,it would seem that would make me a second class Trinidadian cause after all Trinis of African descent put us of the map. So while I Can be happy that mr Walcott won a gold, I also need to be aware that he comes from a section of the population that excludes me. Tell me when can I just be happy and proud because someone from the only place I will ever consider to be home Has done something impressive.
For myself I am Trinidadian first, a fact that anyone who calls me Indian is made aware off, the steel pan is distinctively trini that cannot be said for the tassa.
Enough with the crabs in a bucket already.
in what way, if there is indotrini athletic talent dis country we way to small to ignore dem, especially for dumb reasons like "dem is indian" fact of the matter is dat dat talent never presents itself, if it out there it is suppressed, in favor of academics, d entire UTT sports program was almost out d door due in part to that very same mindset..........since Gopiesingh became MoE he has consistently trained his guns on extracurricular activities in schools including sports...............in many ways as far as sport is concerned and being included therein, indotrinis do themselves the most harm, discrimination not withstanding, and it does not help when Sat makes dumb statements to d effect that indians are deliberately left out of the olympic team....d Olympic team is not ah pick up side AFAIK, qualifications were met to be there
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Brownsugar is right...The African is being erased from the history books in T&T.
Gawd u like Mike Maurice..you blinded by d sun...if yuh iz such ah academic...who is d Indian and African being erased by? Think ahead brother...not behind....
D Indian & African...have never had any severe tribal wars... while d landlord (be my guest)laughing at all ah we......move on people.....together we aspire...together we achieve!!!
agree!
And no African being erased...the Indian diaspora is requesting inclusion in the history books and rightfully so...as do the Chinese and the Syrians and whoever
ironic it sounding like white americans getting vex at including african american history in the history books...
difference is we sounding like a bunch of pothounds fighting over scraps...
I never said the Indian was being erased from history...
I am grateful that there has never been any ethnic/tribal wars between the African and Indian in T&T. I am glad that we havent followed the same path as that small minority of people in Guyana. I am about unity, but also about truth.
Maybe I should rephrase my statement about the "African being slowly erased from the history books". Although, I am not retracting, I do believe something like that is occurring in history books. So to be a little more sensitive, I will say the "African is having their history written by others with underhanded intentions". This is something that has been taking place for years. And it does not necessarily involve a man writing a book. There are many political statements (verbal or symbolic) made by governments and people in power that end up becoming historical documents or proofs of this revision or rewriting of the African's history.i.e Carnival coming from the French... Or honour Pan like Tassa.
Proof is in the pudding though. The current administration in TT, has taking up the role of being "author of Trinidadian history" (again its not about writing a book.. but making a political statement or gesture) . For instance, about a few months before the 50th anniversary, PPP UNC party officials were entertaining the idea that the DLP early leaders along with Williams should be considered as the Founding Fathers. It took a long time for Kam and the PP to recognize Eric Williams as the Founding Father .. Certainly ridiculous. The concept of "Founding Father or Father of the Nation" rides on the actions made by the early leader or leaders to make steps towards creating a nation. There is no disputing that Eric Williams was that person.
This is where it gets deep... The early DLP members opposed the uniting of the West Indies Federation. Eventually, this opposition towards a united West Indies Federation, would evolve into an opposition against Trinidad's Independence. In fact the DLP members preferred if Trinidad remained under British or even become under U.S rule. In other words the DLP, who were largely supported by the Indian community, were opposed to Trinidadian Independence... This is what Brown Sugar was talking about.
The two separate independence celebrations, as opposed to one, are symbols of this historical division towards Indpendence. Kam does not want to rejog the cultural memory of half of T&T. Moreover, putting the DLP on "Founding Father status" is an attempt to rewrite what was really happening during the time leading up to independence.
To those who replied to my earlier post.... I am about unity, but also about truth. I enjoy dropping the Science. I love you all!
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The fact two major political parties practice segregational politricks. The PP is doing nonsense but this fact does not make PNM the solution. All this talk about Indian and African is disheartening, yes I am Indian,it would seem that would make me a second class Trinidadian cause after all Trinis of African descent put us of the map. So while I Can be happy that mr Walcott won a gold, I also need to be aware that he comes from a section of the population that excludes me. Tell me when can I just be happy and proud because someone from the only place I will ever consider to be home Has done something impressive.
For myself I am Trinidadian first, a fact that anyone who calls me Indian is made aware off, the steel pan is distinctively trini that cannot be said for the tassa.
Enough with the crabs in a bucket already.
in what way, if there is indotrini athletic talent dis country we way to small to ignore dem, especially for dumb reasons like "dem is indian" fact of the matter is dat dat talent never presents itself, if it out there it is suppressed, in favor of academics, d entire UTT sports program was almost out d door due in part to that very same mindset..........since the Gopiesingh became MoE he has consistently trained his guns and extracurricular activities in schools including sports...............in many ways as far as sport is concerned and being included therein indotrinis do themselves the most harm, discrimination not withstand and it does not help when Sat makes dumb statements to d effect that indians are deliberately left out of the olympic team....d Olympic team is not ah pick up side AFAIK, qualifications were met to be there
Sat say that? Hahaha he is a clown. In all my years of track I have only seen 3 Indian runners, Harry Persad who was a middle distance runner and 2 fellas that used train with me. Then the next thing is football where a good friend of mine could not play for the school team because he father say he go break he leg. He was a good player.
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The fact two major political parties practice segregational politricks. The PP is doing nonsense but this fact does not make PNM the solution. All this talk about Indian and African is disheartening, yes I am Indian,it would seem that would make me a second class Trinidadian cause after all Trinis of African descent put us of the map. So while I Can be happy that mr Walcott won a gold, I also need to be aware that he comes from a section of the population that excludes me. Tell me when can I just be happy and proud because someone from the only place I will ever consider to be home Has done something impressive.
For myself I am Trinidadian first, a fact that anyone who calls me Indian is made aware off, the steel pan is distinctively trini that cannot be said for the tassa.
Enough with the crabs in a bucket already.
I love that name Trinindian.
Dont get me wrong. Because Afri-Trinidadians put Trinidad on the global in terms of sports and and cultural accomplishments, that does not make Indians less of a citizen. Look at Canada for instances, before the 80s and 90s, the majority of the sporting accomplishments for Canada have been made by "white" or "Canadian Canadians". This does not make non-whites second class citizens.
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The fact two major political parties practice segregational politricks. The PP is doing nonsense but this fact does not make PNM the solution. All this talk about Indian and African is disheartening, yes I am Indian,it would seem that would make me a second class Trinidadian cause after all Trinis of African descent put us of the map. So while I Can be happy that mr Walcott won a gold, I also need to be aware that he comes from a section of the population that excludes me. Tell me when can I just be happy and proud because someone from the only place I will ever consider to be home Has done something impressive.
For myself I am Trinidadian first, a fact that anyone who calls me Indian is made aware off, the steel pan is distinctively trini that cannot be said for the tassa.
Enough with the crabs in a bucket already.
in what way, if there is indotrini athletic talent dis country we way to small to ignore dem, especially for dumb reasons like "dem is indian" fact of the matter is dat dat talent never presents itself, if it out there it is suppressed, in favor of academics, d entire UTT sports program was almost out d door due in part to that very same mindset..........since the Gopiesingh became MoE he has consistently trained his guns and extracurricular activities in schools including sports...............in many ways as far as sport is concerned and being included therein indotrinis do themselves the most harm, discrimination not withstand and it does not help when Sat makes dumb statements to d effect that indians are deliberately left out of the olympic team....d Olympic team is not ah pick up side AFAIK, qualifications were met to be there
Sat say that? Hahaha he is a clown. In all my years of track I have only seen 3 Indian runners, Harry Persad who was a middle distance runner and 2 fellas that used train with me. Then the next thing is football where a good friend of mine could not play for the school team because he father say he go break he leg. He was a good player.
I know what you mean. I have some Indian friends who I played football with. They were good players. They all related. Said they grew up playing with the Africans. While their uncles played Cricket, their father was the only one that played football.
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The fact two major political parties practice segregational politricks. The PP is doing nonsense but this fact does not make PNM the solution. All this talk about Indian and African is disheartening, yes I am Indian,it would seem that would make me a second class Trinidadian cause after all Trinis of African descent put us on the map. So while I Can be happy that mr Walcott won a gold, it would seem that I also need to be aware that he comes from a section of the population that excludes me. Tell me when can I just be happy and proud because someone from the only place I will ever consider to be home Has done something impressive.
For myself I am Trinidadian first, a fact that anyone who calls me Indian is made aware off, the steel pan is distinctively trini that cannot be said for the tassa.
Enough with the crabs in a bucket already.
in what way, if there is indotrini athletic talent dis country we way to small to ignore dem, especially for dumb reasons like "dem is indian" fact of the matter is dat dat talent never presents itself, if it out there it is suppressed, in favor of academics, d entire UTT sports program was almost out d door due in part to that very same mindset..........since the Gopiesingh became MoE he has consistently trained his guns and extracurricular activities in schools including sports...............in many ways as far as sport is concerned and being included therein indotrinis do themselves the most harm, discrimination not withstand and it does not help when Sat makes dumb statements to d effect that indians are deliberately left out of the olympic team....d Olympic team is not ah pick up side AFAIK, qualifications were met to be there
Edited my post to clarify the point I am attempting to make. Which is I just want to be happy for a fellow country man/woman and don't have to be reminded of that person racial background. Don't care for Sat or any others cut in the same vein. They are hypocritics and I chose not to be one.
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I love that name Trinindian.
Dont get me wrong.Because Afri-Trinidadians put Trinidad on the global in terms of sports and and cultural accomplishments that does not make Indians less of a citizen. Look at Canada for instances, before the 80s and 90s, the majority of the sporting accomplishments for Canada have been made by "white" or "Canadian Canadians". This does not make non-whites second class citizens.
So what about
V.S. Naipaul
Samuel selvon
Anya Ayoung-Chee
Rudranath Capildeo
Foxy brown
Niki Minaj
Ian Hanomansing
Not athletes but Defintely cultural ambassadors
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I love that name Trinindian.
Dont get me wrong.Because Afri-Trinidadians put Trinidad on the global in terms of sports and and cultural accomplishments that does not make Indians less of a citizen. Look at Canada for instances, before the 80s and 90s, the majority of the sporting accomplishments for Canada have been made by "white" or "Canadian Canadians". This does not make non-whites second class citizens.
So what about
V.S. Naipaul
Samuel selvon
Anya Ayoung-Chee
Rudranath Capildeo
Foxy brown
Niki Minaj
Ian Hanomansing
Not athletes but Defintely cultural ambassadors
Yuh talking about the stripper who used to be in miramer?
Yeh boi she was a rell cultural/athletic icon... a never see a woman manipulate and vibrate buttocks like that since
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I love that name Trinindian.
Dont get me wrong.Because Afri-Trinidadians put Trinidad on the global in terms of sports and and cultural accomplishments that does not make Indians less of a citizen. Look at Canada for instances, before the 80s and 90s, the majority of the sporting accomplishments for Canada have been made by "white" or "Canadian Canadians". This does not make non-whites second class citizens.
So what about
V.S. Naipaul
Samuel selvon
Anya Ayoung-Chee
Rudranath Capildeo
Foxy brown
Niki Minaj
Ian Hanomansing
Not athletes but Defintely cultural ambassadors
Yuh talking about the stripper who used to be in miramer?
Yeh boi she was a rell cultural/athletic icon... a never see a woman manipulate and vibrate buttocks like that since
Come nah man fish, yuh dun know iz the rapper foxy brown from brooklyn he talking bout, and the last i checked, she is of african decent. and trinidadian, please take nikki maharaj of that list since she is not 100% indian, her mother black and she fardder is indian, that would make her a dougla, and lets face it, in the indian community they loath half african pickninee, and does call dem all kinda stink names like n!gger man chile, carparr and children of warraan.
i have ah few good dougla friends who hate their indian family bc of the abuse they got growing up and wants nothing to do with their other half.
unfortunately country hindus does give all indians ah bad rap. for the most part indians in town doesn't even want tuh have anything to do with country bookie indians, them does be on real sh!t, and does live for the racial divide.
of my friends and their relatives, they were mostly country hindu. i know urban indians doh go on wid dat nonsense, but the rural ones??? is real hate and segregation them does be on!
and yeh, annya have black blood in she too, so i don't believe she counts either.
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I love that name Trinindian.
Dont get me wrong.Because Afri-Trinidadians put Trinidad on the global in terms of sports and and cultural accomplishments that does not make Indians less of a citizen. Look at Canada for instances, before the 80s and 90s, the majority of the sporting accomplishments for Canada have been made by "white" or "Canadian Canadians". This does not make non-whites second class citizens.
So what about
V.S. Naipaul
Samuel selvon
Anya Ayoung-Chee
Rudranath Capildeo
Foxy brown
Niki Minaj
Ian Hanomansing
Not athletes but Defintely cultural ambassadors
Yuh talking about the stripper who used to be in miramer?
Yeh boi she was a rell cultural/athletic icon... a never see a woman manipulate and vibrate buttocks like that since
Come nah man fish, yuh dun know iz the rapper foxy brown from brooklyn he talking bout, and the last i checked, she is of african decent. and trinidadian, please take nikki maharaj of that list since she is not 100% indian, her mother black and she fardder is indian, that would make her a dougla, and lets face it, in the indian community they loath half african pickninee, and does call dem all kinda stink names like n!gger man chile, carparr and children of warraan.
i have ah few good dougla friends who hate their indian family bc of the abuse they got growing up and wants nothing to do with their other half.
unfortunately country hindus does give all indians ah bad rap. for the most part indians in town doesn't even want tuh have anything to do with country bookie indians, them does be on real sh!t, and does live for the racial divide.
of my friends and their relatives, they were mostly country hindu. i know urban indians doh go on wid dat nonsense, but the rural ones??? is real hate and segregation them does be on!
and yeh, annya have black blood in she too, so i don't believe she counts either.
Yeh I know , just using mih sarcasm on him, since I find is a kinda ridiculous post. BTW The foxy Brown I talking bout was real and she was african descent as well .... Ah sure Truetrini would a know her well ;D ;D
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I love that name Trinindian.
Dont get me wrong.Because Afri-Trinidadians put Trinidad on the global in terms of sports and and cultural accomplishments that does not make Indians less of a citizen. Look at Canada for instances, before the 80s and 90s, the majority of the sporting accomplishments for Canada have been made by "white" or "Canadian Canadians". This does not make non-whites second class citizens.
So what about
V.S. Naipaul
Samuel selvon
Anya Ayoung-Chee
Rudranath Capildeo
Foxy brown
Niki Minaj
Ian Hanomansing
Not athletes but Defintely cultural ambassadors
I feel you.. Some of those mentioned above have made great strides with increasing Trinbago's brand/name globally. But I am more speaking about the cultural symbols that are recognized globally. For instance, Pan and Calypso are much more known than half of those people on the list. Also, those above are not even cultural icons as yet .i.e. Bob Marley... Hanomansingh is an excellent journalist, Naipul (although I dont agree with everything he was writing about) still by far an excellent author. Rudranath was a brilliant man. DLP brought him in because they thought he can match wits with Eric Williams. Which he did many times.
Please dont get me wrong fellas, I am not saying that Indians did not make any major accomplishments in and for T&T. I would be a fool to even think that. All I am saying is that the cultural and sporting accomplishments that seems to get the world's attention or most of the world even knows about, are ones made by the Afri-Trinidadian community.
To clarify myself from my original position, I am opposed to the idea of minimizing the Africans role in producing Trinidad's culture i.e. Carnival coming from the French or Steel pan a product of a joint effort between the African and the Indian. For the former, Carnival began on emancipation day, it was changed to the period before Lent by the colonial government. Also, that served as a good way to "Christianize" the African. As for the idea that Steel pan is a collaboration between African and Indians.. race was should not be mentioned, I am happy with pan being a Trinidadian accomplishment. However, during discourses on pan history, pan is usually mentioned as such... a product of race and ethnicity unity. As I said, Race or ethnicity should not be mentioned. But if it is going to be mentioned, then it should not be used to mislead or fool people.
Last, I am also against the rewriting of Trinidad history through political statements and gestures that the administration is currently engaged in.
Trinindian, bring more names of the Indo-Trinidadian intellectual giants i.e. Rudranath. I believe there are still some out there that I havent heard of as yet. Thanks.
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Foxy brown aka Inga Marchand is a doughla. The Examples was not mean to be a indo-trinidadian but a list of others not strictly of Afro descent that have had success on the international stage. Maybe you are right for those individuals that were found to be objectionable the individual constituents are more important than the whole because any success that they had was strictly due to their african heritage. Guess Samuel Selvon does not belong, after all he is half Scott and that is why he was successful.
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I feel you.. Some of those mentioned above have made great strides with increasing Trinbago's brand/name globally. But I am more speaking about the cultural symbols that are recognized globally. For instance, Pan and Calypso are much more known than half of those people on the list. Also, those above are not even cultural icons as yet .i.e. Bob Marley... Hanomansingh is an excellent journalist, Naipul (although I dont agree with everything he was writing about) still by far an excellent author. Rudranath was a brilliant man. DLP brought him in because they thought he can match wits with Eric Williams. Which he did many times.
Please dont get me wrong fellas, I am not saying that Indians did not make any major accomplishments in and for T&T. I would be a fool to even think that. All I am saying is that the cultural and sporting accomplishments that seems to get the world's attention or most of the world even knows about, are ones made by the Afri-Trinidadian community.
To clarify myself from my original position, I am opposed to the idea of minimizing the Africans role in producing Trinidad's culture i.e. Carnival coming from the French or Steel pan a product of a joint effort between the African and the Indian. For the former, Carnival began on emancipation day, it was changed to the period before Lent by the colonial government. Also, that served as a good way to "Christianize" the African. As for the idea that Steel pan is a collaboration between African and Indians.. race was should not be mentioned, I am happy with pan being a Trinidadian accomplishment. However, during discourses on pan history, pan is usually mentioned as such... a product of race and ethnicity unity. As I said, Race or ethnicity should not be mentioned. But if it is going to be mentioned, then it should not be used to mislead or fool people.
Last, I am also against the rewriting of Trinidad history through political statements and gestures that the administration is currently engaged in.
Trinindian, bring more names of the Indo-Trinidadian intellectual giants i.e. Rudranath. I believe there are still some out there that I havent heard of as yet. Thanks.
Agreed no ones contribution to the establishmet of the trinbago identity should be minimized, but sometimes broad sweeping statement can carry unintended meanings.
No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else.
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I love that name Trinindian.
Dont get me wrong.Because Afri-Trinidadians put Trinidad on the global in terms of sports and and cultural accomplishments that does not make Indians less of a citizen. Look at Canada for instances, before the 80s and 90s, the majority of the sporting accomplishments for Canada have been made by "white" or "Canadian Canadians". This does not make non-whites second class citizens.
So what about
V.S. Naipaul
Samuel selvon
Anya Ayoung-Chee
Rudranath Capildeo
Foxy brown
Niki Minaj
Ian Hanomansing
Not athletes but Defintely cultural ambassadors
Yuh talking about the stripper who used to be in miramer?
Yeh boi she was a rell cultural/athletic icon... a never see a woman manipulate and vibrate buttocks like that since
Come nah man fish, yuh dun know iz the rapper foxy brown from brooklyn he talking bout, and the last i checked, she is of african decent. and trinidadian, please take nikki maharaj of that list since she is not 100% indian, her mother black and she fardder is indian, that would make her a dougla, and lets face it, in the indian community they loath half african pickninee, and does call dem all kinda stink names like n!gger man chile, carparr and children of warraan.
i have ah few good dougla friends who hate their indian family bc of the abuse they got growing up and wants nothing to do with their other half.
unfortunately country hindus does give all indians ah bad rap. for the most part indians in town doesn't even want tuh have anything to do with country bookie indians, them does be on real sh!t, and does live for the racial divide.
of my friends and their relatives, they were mostly country hindu. i know urban indians doh go on wid dat nonsense, but the rural ones??? is real hate and segregation them does be on!
and yeh, annya have black blood in she too, so i don't believe she counts either.
Dougla..lol
My great grandfather came with his family from Madras (Chennai) India to Trinidad. My grandfather is African and Indian. His Indian family used to call him dougla, and laugh. He accepted that as a term for mix African and Indian like majority of Trinis. As my grandfather grew up, he learned that dougla is Bhojpuri (Hindu dialect) for bastard. Thats why his Indian family used to laugh when they called him dougla or dougala...
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Dougla..lol
My great grandfather came with his family from Madras (Chennai) India to Trinidad. My grandfather is African and Indian. His Indian family used to call him dougla, and laugh. He accepted that as a term for mix African and Indian like majority of Trinis. As my grandfather grew up, he learned that dougla is Bhojpuri (Hindu dialect) for bastard. Thats why his Indian family used to laugh when they called him dougla or dougala...
See I learn something today
The word originated from doogala (दुगला), which is a Bhojpuri and Hindi word that has many meanings such as many, a mix, or much. It literally means "two necks" in Bhojpuri and is highly insulting in the Bihar and Purvanchal regions of North India. Some of the connotations of the word such as bastard, illegitimate and son of a whore are secondary and limited to sections of North India where the term may have originated.[1] The term itself has a puzzling connotation, for it has very limited use within the subcontinent for the purpose that it gained in the West Indies. In other words, there is no recorded use of the word other than that which the definition describes, and yet, there is little or no record of such a defined use anywhere on the continent. Originally, the use of the word in the West Indies was only used for Afro-Indo racial hybrids, despite its origin as a word used to describe inter-caste mixing. In Bihar and Uttar Pradesh it is considered highly offensive, as it denotes that one is of mixed caste or a half-breed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougla)
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Dougla..lol
My great grandfather came with his family from Madras (Chennai) India to Trinidad. My grandfather is African and Indian. His Indian family used to call him dougla, and laugh. He accepted that as a term for mix African and Indian like majority of Trinis. As my grandfather grew up, he learned that dougla is Bhojpuri (Hindu dialect) for bastard. Thats why his Indian family used to laugh when they called him dougla or dougala...
See I learn something today
The word originated from doogala (दुगला), which is a Bhojpuri and Hindi word that has many meanings such as many, a mix, or much. It literally means "two necks" in Bhojpuri and is highly insulting in the Bihar and Purvanchal regions of North India. Some of the connotations of the word such as bastard, illegitimate and son of a whore are secondary and limited to sections of North India where the term may have originated.[1] The term itself has a puzzling connotation, for it has very limited use within the subcontinent for the purpose that it gained in the West Indies. In other words, there is no recorded use of the word other than that which the definition describes, and yet, there is little or no record of such a defined use anywhere on the continent. Originally, the use of the word in the West Indies was only used for Afro-Indo racial hybrids, despite its origin as a word used to describe inter-caste mixing. In Bihar and Uttar Pradesh it is considered highly offensive, as it denotes that one is of mixed caste or a half-breed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougla)
Yep. Although Madras is in Southern India.. Many newly arrived Indians in T&T were familiar with what it meant, regardless of where in India they came from.
Its always good to learn. Thanks Trinindian.
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No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else
T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall
All I must add are QRC boys....
As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...
Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???
I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...
Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO
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No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else
T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall
All I must add are QRC boys....
As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...
Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???
I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...
Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO
Thanks Rota.
Its true. You tend to find that love/hate relationship amongst the "Canadian Canadians" towards the non "Canadians".
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You tend to find that love/hate relationship amongst the "Canadian Canadians" towards the non "Canadians".
LOL.....We can sit here all our lives and argue "Canadian Canadians".....who is Canadian? what is Canadian food? Do I need to speak with a jackass twang for me to considered assimilated??? So my three and your 3 does sound different....WELL my 3 is pronounced like that from the Irish in d Caribbean Assimilation u say...win the Stanley cup first.... ;D
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Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.
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You tend to find that love/hate relationship amongst the "Canadian Canadians" towards the non "Canadians".
LOL.....We can sit here all our lives and argue "Canadian Canadians".....who is Canadian? what is Canadian food? Do I need to speak with a jackass twang for me to considered assimilated??? So my three and your 3 does sound different....WELL my 3 is pronounced like that from the Irish in d Caribbean Assimilation u say...win the Stanley cup first.... ;D
Canadian Canadians is just a way of saying "white Canadians". This is very popular in France where the white French claim that they are the "original French" or French-French.
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Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.
There are much more resources that can confirm the etymological root of the word dougla.
Think of the context in which this word was being introduced into the Trinidadian lexicon.. This was a time when many of the Indian men followed the caste system to a tee. If their daughters had children out of wedlock with the African-Caribbean man... Do you think he (the Indian grandfather) was willing to accept this? How do you think he referred to them.. hence dougla or doogala.
The original meaning of the word is a symbol of the attitudes held by Indian men when their Indian daughters had children with Afri Caribbean men.
If you ask anyone who speaks Bhojpuri that is from India, they will tell you it means mixed or out of caste but has a derogatory connotation.
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I'm experiencing something strange in my understanding of things. It’s almost as if the emergence of this 'discourse' briefly warped my reality. As a schoolboy I never once viewed the steelpan as an African invention even though it was indisputably created by Trinidadians of African descent. The views in some quarters including that of the Prime Minister herself, which was quite unnecessarily revealed in her response to the President's comments during the opening of this session of Parliament, have created an ugly specter on the national identity.
It is unrealistic, no, it is absurd for the sake of political correctness to deny the past to create a convenient present. The systematic suppression of african culture , language and religion and the diametrically opposite policy in the treatment of the indentured labourers created divergent pathways in development of the two major groups. I am cautious to also recognise that african descendants did in fact retain elements of their past despite the official policy and that Indians were not entirely closed to cultural adaptation or borrowing in this new space.
In my view the emergence of the steelpan , calypso and soca are the result of a passion to recreate a culture whereas in the indian experience a significant effort has been placed on the retention and preservation of an already present identity and particularly in its most classical form. Consider the purity of classical indian dance which I must confess I find to be among most elegant and beautiful of all and the songs and the teaching of Hindi, and the adherence to the ancient faith of Hinduism and you must recognise a difference in the experience of the two groups and way their collective creations have been perceived nationally.
There is a tv station called IEtv that actually has "the # 1 Indian station" as a slogan, additionally there are several tv and radio stations as well as paid programmes on national tv that are specifically called 'indian format'. The thing I love most about the free market is it solves the problem of what goods and services should be produced or offered democratically. These stations and their programming would not exist if there was no demand or didn't reflect a particular interest. Conversely there is no Radio Yoruba. It is clear the practice of indian culture and the expression of indian artforms in Trinidad has and evidently continues reflect a parochial interest. I mention this only as a point of information and do not mean to cast aspersions on any group. I simply find it unreasonable to claim that indian culture has been under-represented in national history and in the national identity given the absence of any suppressive policy and in fact the historical support through the state media and avenues such as the Prime Minister’s Best Village Award or the stories in the books I read at school.
It is no coincidence that as Dr. Williams said the only true national movement is carnival and the fact that steelpan , calypso and soca have been widely received and has come to represent the sound of Trinidad and Tobago at home and globally.Their popularity denigrates or marginalizes other artforms about as much as roti marginalizes pelau. I remember so vividly when the Soca Warriors returned from Bahrain victoriously, they were greeted at the airport by thousands and saluted by a throng of red clad mokojumbies and tassa drummers. I was emotional not only about our qualification but the sight and the sound of something so majestic and so beautiful and in that instant I knew nobody else did it like this. I remain unclear about the Prime Minister’s version of ‘unity in diversity.’
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Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.
There are much more resources that can confirm the etymological root of the word dougla.
Think of the context in which this word was being introduced into the Trinidadian lexicon.. This was a time when many of the Indian men followed the caste system to a tee. If their daughters had children out of wedlock with the African-Caribbean man... Do you think he (the Indian grandfather) was willing to accept this? How do you think he referred to them.. hence dougla or doogala.
The original meaning of the word is a symbol of the attitudes held by Indian men when their Indian daughters had children with Afri Caribbean men.
If you ask anyone who speaks Bhojpuri that is from India, they will tell you it means mixed or out of caste but has a derogatory connotation.
How is that different from what I stated above? Fact is there were no racial connotations or issues related to legitimacy (children born in or out of wedlock) associated with the word. Therefore the "bastard" definition isn't really controlling or applicable. Not to say that it may not have some minor connotation or legitimacy, since inter-varna marriages would have been frowned upon if not prohibited. Therefore, if prohibited folks probably just had common law unions giving rise to 'bastard' kids. Again though, that connotation would have been derived out of the original inter-varna meaning under this scenario.
As for what Indian men would have felt about their women marrying African Caribbean men... how could that possibly tell us anything about the original meaning of the word when the word itself pre-dated Indian/African mixing? Of course this was the connotation it took on once transplanted to the Caribbean... of course in the Caribbean we know it refers specifically to that admixture, and yes, with negative connotations.
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Great points Jah Gol... when you look at the premise for changing the mandate of the Min. of Culture... to Min. of Multiculturalism, that of promoting the many cultures represented in TnT. How can they say with a straight face, "there is no Mother Africa or Mother India" when you suppressing the expression of one unified culture in favor of promoting a mosaic of cultures. This isn't the US where there has been an official policy of suppressing minority voices... we have never had that in Trinidad. Of course many would argue, with some merit that the Williams PNM government didn't do enough for Indians, or to promote Indian culture... but Indians were doing a fine enough job of promoting their own culture even during this period. They, unlike African slaves, were permitted to retain their cultural heritage... so it's been accepted, even if tacitly... from ever since they got off the ship. Why the "we time now" attitude then... when it was never NOT 'your time'?
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No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else
T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall
All I must add are QRC boys....
As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...
Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???
I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...
Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO
To make things easy, there's a book by dr eric williams called "the history of the people of trinidad and tobago", in that book there's a whole chapter that is dedicated towards the east indian contribution to T&T.
now ah man would have to be ah complete fool to think that the biggest populous of T&T didn't make any significant contribution to the nation, and though indians did not make big cultural or sporting strides in the outside world putting T&T on the map, they did however excelled in other areas and made positive contributions to the nation unknown to the outside world. check out the book.
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No other intellectuals come to mind immediately, but i will see what i can find should be educational if nothing else
T.I you dont have to search far....here are some names I am sure you are familiar with and Island Scholars in there own right...
Lionel Seemungal Jerningham Medal back in the day when the gov't was TOUGH on awarding real scholarship...which I believe was in 1941 or 1942.
Rupert Seemungal
Lloyd Best... Sorbonne graduate if I recall
All I must add are QRC boys....
As for Canada Gawd..I would not say genius but Neil Bissoondath comes from the Capildeo Clan...(York Uni) graduate and married a Francophone...resides in that province they call Quebec I believe...
Gawd..I know you mean well like the rest of the Canucks..u UFT,York, UBC, Queens or McMaster of hard knocks???
I didnt single you out....and I all about learning...
Its interesting you gentleman are all talking about trini accomplishments and I feel sorry when I look at how dem Canadian does call yuh dey own but once any form of _uck up....crappo smoke yuh pipe..eg Ben Johnson...we love u Donovan Bailey...u sound so eloquent.... Ben......WHO
To make things easy, there's a book by dr eric williams called "the history of the people of trinidad and tobago", in that book there's a whole chapter that is dedicated towards the east indian contribution to T&T.
now ah man would have to be ah complete fool to think that the biggest populous of T&T didn't make any significant contribution to the nation, and though indians did not make big cultural or sporting strides in the outside world putting T&T on the map, they did however excelled in other areas and made positive contributions to the nation unknown to the outside world. check out the book.
It should have been required reading of every school child in this country. Good stuff.
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Great points Jah Gol... when you look at the premise for changing the mandate of the Min. of Culture... to Min. of Multiculturalism, that of promoting the many cultures represented in TnT. How can they say with a straight face, "there is no Mother Africa or Mother India" when you suppressing the expression of one unified culture in favor of promoting a mosaic of cultures. This isn't the US where there has been an official policy of suppressing minority voices... we have never had that in Trinidad. Of course many would argue, with some merit that the Williams PNM government didn't do enough for Indians, or to promote Indian culture... but Indians were doing a fine enough job of promoting their own culture even during this period. They, unlike African slaves, were permitted to retain their cultural heritage... so it's been accepted, even if tacitly... from ever since they got off the ship. Why the "we time now" attitude then... when it was never NOT 'your time'?
I was always bemused by this Ministry of Multiculturalism. The Ministry of National Diversity and Social Integration is another gem. Even Minister Clifton De Coteau said he didn't know what it all about.
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Dougla doesn't mean 'bastard', I don't trust that Wikipedia definition because it cannot be substantiated. The word originally referred to the progeny of inter-varna marriages, or children born to parents from different caste sects. It subsequently took on racial tones once Indians began mixing with other races with greater frequency.
There are much more resources that can confirm the etymological root of the word dougla.
Think of the context in which this word was being introduced into the Trinidadian lexicon.. This was a time when many of the Indian men followed the caste system to a tee. If their daughters had children out of wedlock with the African-Caribbean man... Do you think he (the Indian grandfather) was willing to accept this? How do you think he referred to them.. hence dougla or doogala.
The original meaning of the word is a symbol of the attitudes held by Indian men when their Indian daughters had children with Afri Caribbean men.
If you ask anyone who speaks Bhojpuri that is from India, they will tell you it means mixed or out of caste but has a derogatory connotation.
How is that different from what I stated above? Fact is there were no racial connotations or issues related to legitimacy (children born in or out of wedlock) associated with the word. Therefore the "bastard" definition isn't really controlling or applicable. Not to say that it may not have some minor connotation or legitimacy, since inter-varna marriages would have been frowned upon if not prohibited. Therefore, if prohibited folks probably just had common law unions giving rise to 'bastard' kids. Again though, that connotation would have been derived out of the original inter-varna meaning under this scenario.
As for what Indian men would have felt about their women marrying African Caribbean men... how could that possibly tell us anything about the original meaning of the word when the word itself pre-dated Indian/African mixing? Of course this was the connotation it took on once transplanted to the Caribbean... of course in the Caribbean we know it refers specifically to that admixture, and yes, with negative connotations.
Good point Bakes.. But I cant think of another experience where this word "dougla or doogala" would have been more appropriate from the Indian man's view.
Also, it is a agreed that dougla has some relationship to something derogatory. Inter racial mixing or miscegenation also occurred between Indian and European. Now is there any negative or derogatory term to describe the offspring of Indian and European?
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Good point Bakes.. But I cant think of another experience where this word "dougla or doogala" would have been more appropriate from the Indian man's view.
Also, it is a agreed that dougla has some relationship to something derogatory. Inter racial mixing or miscegenation also occurred between Indian and European. Now is there any negative or derogatory term to describe the offspring of Indian and European?
Definitely derogatory... inter-caste mixing was frowned upon. Technically speaking "dogala" would apply to Indo-Europeans as well, even though they belong to the same race.
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Good point Bakes.. But I cant think of another experience where this word "dougla or doogala" would have been more appropriate from the Indian man's view.
Also, it is a agreed that dougla has some relationship to something derogatory. Inter racial mixing or miscegenation also occurred between Indian and European. Now is there any negative or derogatory term to describe the offspring of Indian and European?
Definitely derogatory... inter-caste mixing was frowned upon. Technically speaking "dogala" would apply to Indo-Europeans as well, even though they belong to the same race.
You would think so Bakes..
"Lighter skin" is not frowned upon in Hindu culture/religion. However, "darker skin" is. . We do not have to go far to see how much "lighter" or even "white" skin is exalted in Hindi culture/religion . In that culture/religion "mixing up" (Indian and European) is much more favourable in than "mixing down" (Indian and African). And yes, "doogala" could probably mean mixing Indian and European. But its use will depend on who is in the position of power.
Even in our Caribbean culture, darker skin is frowned upon. Having lighter skin usually means better life chances in the Caribbean. Specifically, more opportunities.
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Great points Jah Gol... when you look at the premise for changing the mandate of the Min. of Culture... to Min. of Multiculturalism, that of promoting the many cultures represented in TnT. How can they say with a straight face, "there is no Mother Africa or Mother India" when you suppressing the expression of one unified culture in favor of promoting a mosaic of cultures. This isn't the US where there has been an official policy of suppressing minority voices... we have never had that in Trinidad. Of course many would argue, with some merit that the Williams PNM government didn't do enough for Indians, or to promote Indian culture... but Indians were doing a fine enough job of promoting their own culture even during this period. They, unlike African slaves, were permitted to retain their cultural heritage... so it's been accepted, even if tacitly... from ever since they got off the ship. Why the "we time now" attitude then... when it was never NOT 'your time'?
I was always bemused by this Ministry of Multiculturalism. The Ministry of National Diversity and Social Integration is another gem. Even Minister Clifton De Coteau said he didn't know what it all about.
He just enuff of Tim and they give him a Ministry.
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You would think so Bakes..
"Lighter skin" is not frowned upon in Hindu culture/religion. However, "darker skin" is. . We do not have to go far to see how much "lighter" or even "white" skin is exalted in Hindi culture/religion . In that culture/religion "mixing up" (Indian and European) is much more favourable in than "mixing down" (Indian and African). And yes, "doogala" could probably mean mixing Indian and European. But its use will depend on who is in the position of power.
Even in our Caribbean culture, darker skin is frowned upon. Having lighter skin usually means better life chances in the Caribbean. Specifically, more opportunities.
Whether it's frowned upon or not, the term "dogala" would technically still apply. Now whether it's actually applied in practice or whether there's another term, I don't know.
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here we go again PNM dunce ass voted on the thing and now bawling.. talk bout freeking sour puss..
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Rowley_must_resign-169988026.html
AG slams Opposition failure to act on Section 34
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Sep 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM ECT
(
Story Updated: Sep 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM ECT )
Attorney General Anand Ramlogan has repeated his call for the resignation of Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley.
Asked to comment last night on Rowley's plan to march tomorrow from the Red House on St Vincent Street to President's House, around the Queen's Park Savannah against Government's proclamation of Section 34 of the Administration of Justice (Indictable Proceedings) Act, Ramlogan said Rowley needs to explain to the people why he supported the legislation.
Rowley, he said, is trying to deflect attention from the fact that he led the PNM in voting for Section 34 in both the Upper and Lower House.
"He has failed to clarify and answer questions regarding his rationale for voting for Section 34. whether it was proclaimed by itself or as part of the entire Act in one go, the undisputable fact is accused persons with pending cases would have been able to make application and walk free," said Ramlogan.
"This would have been so whenever the law he voted for was proclaimed. He seeks to divert attention from the PNM support for this crucial limitation on criminal prosecution. I therefore call upon him to do a separate petition explaining why he supported such a measure whether he consulted the PNM membership on same," he added.
He said Rowley cannot "blow hot and cold" at the same time.
"He ought properly therefore to do the decent thing and resign as Opposition Leader on account of his unexplained flip flop. The nation is yet to hear why he passed a law that will allow accused persons to walk free without facing trial," said Ramlogan.
Questioned on Rowley's call for a new Attorney General to preside over the legal matters involving businessmen Steve Ferguson and Ishwar Galbaransingh, Ramlogan responded: "All criminal prosecutions are under the sole discretion and control of the DPP, so this call demonstrates his lack of understanding of the constitutional role and responsibility of these two offices."
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here we go again PNM dunce ass voted on the thing and now bawling.. talk bout freeking sour puss..
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Rowley_must_resign-169988026.html
AG slams Opposition failure to act on Section 34
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Sep 16, 2012 at 11:56 PM ECT
(
Story Updated: Sep 17, 2012 at 12:16 AM ECT )
Attorney General Anand Ramlogan has repeated his call for the resignation of Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley.
Asked to comment last night on Rowley's plan to march tomorrow from the Red House on St Vincent Street to President's House, around the Queen's Park Savannah against Government's proclamation of Section 34 of the Administration of Justice (Indictable Proceedings) Act, Ramlogan said Rowley needs to explain to the people why he supported the legislation.
Rowley, he said, is trying to deflect attention from the fact that he led the PNM in voting for Section 34 in both the Upper and Lower House.
"He has failed to clarify and answer questions regarding his rationale for voting for Section 34. whether it was proclaimed by itself or as part of the entire Act in one go, the undisputable fact is accused persons with pending cases would have been able to make application and walk free," said Ramlogan.
"This would have been so whenever the law he voted for was proclaimed. He seeks to divert attention from the PNM support for this crucial limitation on criminal prosecution. I therefore call upon him to do a separate petition explaining why he supported such a measure whether he consulted the PNM membership on same," he added.
He said Rowley cannot "blow hot and cold" at the same time.
"He ought properly therefore to do the decent thing and resign as Opposition Leader on account of his unexplained flip flop. The nation is yet to hear why he passed a law that will allow accused persons to walk free without facing trial," said Ramlogan.
Questioned on Rowley's call for a new Attorney General to preside over the legal matters involving businessmen Steve Ferguson and Ishwar Galbaransingh, Ramlogan responded: "All criminal prosecutions are under the sole discretion and control of the DPP, so this call demonstrates his lack of understanding of the constitutional role and responsibility of these two offices."
Dude trying following the thing as it unravel nah. Read ah couple thread regarding yuh PM and them skullduggery with the BIG 34.
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Dude trying following the thing as it unravel nah. Read ah couple thread regarding yuh PM and them skullduggery with the BIG 34.
u have time
Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves. - Eric Hoffer
wuss if d motive is purely ethnic.....steups u should know war seen long time
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War, did you follow the entire espiode. The all voted for the law. They all agree that the law will be implemented in 2013. Then , Independence day Volney and Anand (with full knowledge of the UNC) went to the President to implement the law. What kind of crap is that. You yourself would have infliction some JA cuss words on Anand and Volney.
All the time allyuh jumping on Rowley. He and the PNM decided to go along then allyuh want to cut they throat. From now on Rowley and them should be nitpickey for every bill that come thru parliament. "why that "i" is not dotted? why that "t" is not crossed?
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Look the relevant parts here Deeks... it have none so blind as those who will not see
When the Bill was debated in Parliament, the impact of the Act on the current Piarco related cases was raised by the PNM. The Parliament received assurances from the Minister who piloted the Bill that the Act would not be proclaimed until the necessary infrastructure to administer the legislation was put in place.
Additional Masters of the Court had to be appointed.
Criminal Procedure Rules had to be brought to Parliament to allow for the operation of the new system.
The judiciary had to re organize itself to deal with the anticipated flood of applications.
In short, Parliament and the people of this country were assured by the current Minister of Justice that no one could benefit from the legislation until these necessary infrastructural changes were put in place including passage of further legislation in Parliament.
On the 18th November 2011 the Minister Volney stated in the Senate during the debate on the Bill:
“So while this measure can work without rules because it establishes a framework, I can assure members opposite that nothing is going to be proclaimed before all the necessary measures required to make it succeed happens.” (Page 127 Hansard- Senate- 2011.11.18)
These changes take time and money to be put into effect and are yet to be completed.
It is therefore a cause for alarm to learn that the legislation was proclaimed and put into force, during the 50th Anniversary Independence celebrations, without prior warning, in the circumstance where the Preliminary Enquiry into the Airport charges is about to resume, thereby appearing to facilitate the making of an application to a judge by accused in the Piarco Airport scandal for an order to declare themselves NOT GUILTY.
In other words, despite the absence of the promised infrastructure, the government has proceeded to make the Act law so that person may now claim the benefit of the Act. Without the proclamation, the accused in the Piarco matters would have to submit to a Preliminary Enquiry which could result in their trial before judge and jury.
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heare di c**trell again...
Talk bout sour f**kin Puss.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE People's Partnership Government can expect absolutely no cooperation from the Opposition People's National Movement (PNM) from now on, Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley has said.
Rowley said the PNM was willing to "communicate, consult and mobilise" with all forces in opposition to the government and was now calling for early general elections.
Rowley made the statement yesterday at a press conference at the Port of Spain office of the Opposition Leader where he responded to Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar's address on the Section 34 fiasco on Thursday night.
"We want to put the Government on notice that from here on in, for whatever time they remain in office, they can expect absolutely no cooperation from the Opposition and we want to put the country on notice that we are not prepared to accept without protest a government that is so stained and so shamed so we would now move to communicate with, to consult with, to discuss with and to mobilise in this country the people of this country who will say that wrong is wrong and right is right... we come down on the side of right," Rowley said.
"We will not cooperate with this Government and we are of the view that there are people in the Cabinet, in the Government who on proper investigation can be shown to be engaged in criminal conduct because all of this is one grand design with one particular effect....and the effect has been perverting the course of justice," he said.
Rowley said the People's Partnership administration led by Persad-Bissessar was unfit to be in office.
"They do not deserve to be in office, they have betrayed the trust of the people of Trinidad and Tobago. They are stained and they are shamed and they must leave office and we are calling for elections now," Rowley said.
Asked whether the willingness to collaborate with other political entities was against PNM policy, Rowley said:
"The PNM remains the PNM but we will extend our reaches to cooperate, invite and collaborate with any citizen in this country who is prepared to stand for decency and tell this Government enough is enough and you have not fooled us," he added.
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warmonga yuh is some kinda serious c**t boi. Steups...de f**king PP doing shit, they corrupt eeking to pervert justice and yuh want to have people coperate with dem and they betraying the trust? f**king eediat bwoy shut tuh f**k up nah de PP is c**ts
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and di sour puss is back at it again... now he stop holding meeting wid gangsters now he sucking di union dem cock.. talk bout sour PUSS!!!!!!!!!!
Some 17 organisations, including the People’s National Movement, the Movement for Social Justice, the Joint Consultative Council and other civil organisations last night demanded the immediate removal of National Security Minister Jack Warner and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan from the Cabinet. That was among the major recommendations contained in the declaration issued by the group after a three-and-a-half hour meeting at Hotel Normandie, St Ann’s.
The issue of the proclamation of Section 34 of the Administration of Justice (Indictable Proceedings) Act 2011 and the subsequent attacks on media workers in T&T were among the major discussion points at the meeting. Ossie Warrick, secretary of the Joint Trade Union Movement told reporters there was a need for the People’s Partnership Government, led by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, to explain the entire Section 34 fiasco.
The call was made hours after acting President Timothy Hamel-Smith issued a statement saying citizens had a right to be concerned about the development. Warrick said Warner’s attack on President George Maxwell Richards, Dean Sampson, of the Anglican Church, and Asha Javeed, a journalist, “was an attack on the head of State, the clergy and freedom of expression and freedom of the press.
Warrick said the groups remained “committed to further action to ensure the these demands are met.” He said the meeting wanted fundamental change to the system of governance and the need for constitutional reform. Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley led the People’s National Movement team, which included the party’s vice-chairman Camille Robinson-Regis, PNM whip Marlene McDonald and PNM PRO Senator Faris Al-Rawi. Some 41 people attended the meeting.
Meanwhile, Rowley was the recipient of a death threat yesterday. Sources revealed this, saying it appeared to be a matter of serious concern. Sources said Rowley was told of the threat earlier yesterday. Sources say he reported the matter to the police. Rowley, however, did not comment on the matter last night.
The PNM leader had been in the forefront of criticisms of the Government in the past several months. He told a party meeting in Five Rivers on Wednesday it was time for someone to stand up against the Government in the interest of the nation and put citizens of T&T first.
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how old is warmonga?
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how old is warmonga?
lol.. War is an ole boi. He pushing at least 65.. Just kidding
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how old is warmonga?
I really dont tell woman mi age but you is an exception .. I am 40 years ole gunta with 5 boys and still throwing wood . I dont discriminate wid woman I throwing wood on any kind .. yu looking for a man?
war
war
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sour pussy back at it again..
Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley is advising citizens to either shutdown their work places or work for half the day on November 2 and take to the streets of Port-of-Spain at noon to demand good governance. He said so at a public meeting of the People’s National Movement (PNM) held opposite Starlite Shopping Plaza, Diego Martin, on Thursday night.
When the PNM held a second roundtable meeting of trade unions and non-governmental organisations, the group decided to “engage in a massive demonstration through the streets of Port-of-Spain to demand the immediate removal of Jack Warner and Anand Ramlogan,” Rowley said. The organisers of the event said that would be a major protest as thousands of people were expected to take part.
The march is expected to begin at noon at Woodford Square and culminate on the Brian Lara Promenade, Port-of-Spain. “Come out in your numbers. Come out at high noon. Meet me in Woodford Square at high noon on November 2. Come out in your thousands, meet the PNM, meet the unions, meet the NGOs and we will walk the streets of Port-of-Spain,” Rowley said to the cheering crowd.
He said the PNM was ready and prepared to stand up against the Government because citizens were now under threat from bad governance. Rowley said the PNM had no problem in supporting “all bodies and persons in this country who will stand up to this Government.”
He added: “Let Kamla Persad-Bissessar and her Government and her cronies know that you the people of Trinidad and Tobago are not taking that from them. “And we’ll stand up in front of this Government and say ‘this is our country and we will have it the way we want it.’”
Rowley said employers should allow their employees to leave work to attend the protest at high noon. He said the rule of law must prevail. In an obvious reference to the Section 34 fiasco, Rowley said when the Government used a situation to cause people to be above the law employers must “close down their businesses on Friday November 2.”
He told workers: “Come out from your business places half-day if you have to, put somebody to hold your baby if you have to, get in your taxi if you have to. “ Rowley called on citizens to show Attorney General Anand Ramlogan that they had the power to do something about the Section 34 issue by engaging in mass protest on November 2.
A fiery Rowley said the People’s Partnership Government “believes that you are helpless, they believe that you are hungry, they believe that you are stupid and on that basis they will get a longer term in office.” He added: “Their days are numbered. It is a one-term government.” He told the crowd that it was “only when you push back at them that they suddenly know what to do.
“So when you come out on the streets, they wouldn’t be giving anything back, you’d be taking it back.
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mr sour puss rowley
Move him now!” That was Opposition Leader Keith Rowley’s call to Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar in piloting his motion of censure against Attorney General Anand Ramlogan, seeking his removal in connection with the controversial Section 34 issue.
A furore arose on the proclamation of the clause in the Administration of Justice (Indictable Offences) Bill after concerns were raised that the section would allow businessmen Ish Galbaransingh and Steve Ferguson— on fraud charges — to walk free.
Herbert Volney was subsequently dismissed as Justice Minister in connection with the faux pas. Yesterday, Rowley in calling for the Parliament to “connect the dots” traced back to 2010 when Galbaransingh and Ferguson’s extradition matters were being dealt with and how Ramlogan had handled various aspects of the case.
He said it was only after the Director of Public Prosecutions insisted, both men were placed in custody. Accusing Ramlogan of “gross dereliction of duty” and failing to warn the Government that the Section would allow certain persons to go free, Rowley said in order for the public interest to be protected, Ramlogan could not be allowed to remain in office and be in charge of the process to the end while he was so implicated in failing to do his duty.
Rowley said it would be a travesty and the State’s case may fail if Ramlogan is left in charge of the process. Worse than the dereliction of duty, Rowley said, was the possible expectation or intention that those cases would be discharged.
“T&T cannot trust this Attorney General! We’re not accepting that what occurred was oversight or happenstance. It was well-orchestrated and up to now nothing has been explained. I call on the Prime Minister to tell T&T why it was expedient to proclaim Section 34,” Rowley said.
He said Ramlogan had a duty to know what the amnesty in the section involved and had a duty to protect the State. Although Ramlogan had said he was not versed in criminal matters, Rowley said the aspect of criminal legislation was shifted from Volney’s ministry in the 2011 Cabinet reshuffle to Ramlogan. He questioned why Ramlogan was “presenting the charade” that Volney was responsible. He said the prime minister knew Ramlogan had full responsibility for the legislation.
Rowley said the section of the bill which was presented in the Senate in 2011 was not explained. He said the AG was the only Government spokesman in the Senate and had mislead the Parliament on it.
The Opposition leader said one senator expressed concern about the provision giving amnesty on certain cases and discussions had taken place behind the speaker’s chair among senators on the possible impact of the section. He said Ramlogan had assured senators that before the section was proclaimed, there would be full consideration of all issues and conditions requested in debate by both Houses as well as a full review and amendment prior to proclamation.
He said by the end of November 2011, Ramlogan ought to have known Section 34 would have freed the UNC financiers if the assurances given to the Parliament were violated. “Unless he knew his Government‘s intention was to allow certain persons to go free,” Rowley said.
Rowley said it was incumbent on Ramlogan to take immediate steps to amend Section 34 to ensure certain persons were not beneficiaries of the amnesty as he had undertaken to do this in the discussions with senators. He noted the businessmen had their first victory against the state in December 2011.
Rowley queried why Ramlogan had not raised fresh evidence in the two cases and why Section 34 was not amended so certain persons could not rely on it. He queried why the AG didn’t tell Cabinet in August that proclamation of Section 34 would allow for discharge of certain cases. He said Ramlogan was “grossly negligent” in taking steps to ensure there would be a trial.
Rowley asked if Ramlogan failed to do this as Government intended for certain cases to fail. “It was either a conspiracy or a brilliant manoeuvre to a particular end,” he said, adding Ramlogan tried to escape responsibility and pass it to others. Ramlogan, who sat on the Government front bench took notes as Rowley spoke.
MPs absent from debate were Nizam Baksh and Delmon Baker. Government was said to have a full complement of speakers and the Opposition, eight for the marathon debate.
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look how dey love Mi PM ... Kamla you is di boss.. red, black, white, yellow everybody in TNT love yu gal
While scores of yellow-clad UNC supporters came out to the Parliament yesterday to support Attorney General Anand Ramlogan for yesterday’s debate, a small group of PNM Women’s League members also turned up to rally behind PNM leader Keith Rowley in his motion of censure against Ramlogan.
Supporters of both sides were present around the Parliament for the debate. UNC supporters outnumbered the PNM group almost three to one. Groups of UNC followers gathered on the southern side of the Waterfront complex, near the Breakfast Shed, and behind a blocked-off area nearer the Parliament Building. Some viewed the proceedings inside the Parliament on a large screen set up on the back of a truck near the Breakfast Shed.
Several female UNC supporters said they had come from the Couva North constituency and had been organised by the MP’s office to attend. “We here to support,” they all said. Support exactly what, they were asked. After looking quizzically around at each other for a minute, one of them said, “We here to support we Government.”
Several UNC MPs, including Stacy Roopnarine, Tim Gopeesingh, Chandresh Sharma and Suruj Rambachan, came out to meet supporters. Before Rambachan reached the UNC group, however, he was braced by a middle-aged orange-clad woman who said, “Why all you doing the people dat?”
While the UNC supporters were outside the Parliament, the group of PNM women, all clad in white, stood inside the lobby of the Parliament until they went upstairs to the Parliament chamber. PNM lady vice-chairman Donna Cox said they could not stand outside the front of the building and went inside because they did not want any confrontation with the UNC supporters.
Apart from Cox, the group, including PNM deputy leader Joan Yuille-Williams, all went into the chamber for Rowley’s address. They left when Moonilal began speaking. By that time most of the UNC supporters outside had left or sought shelter from the afternoon showers. Only some stuck around to watch proceedings on the television screen outside the building.
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freeking ediots.....
PNM chairman: Look for bigger protest than 70s
Today’s march by trade unionists, the Opposition PNM and other groups will be the biggest crowd seen since the 1970s, says PNM chairman Franklin Khan. He said yesterday all MPs and PNM units had been mobilised to take part in what he said was a “national front effort.”
He added: “It’s not a PNM march per se, although the PNM and MSJ are participating. It’s more apolitical. But we are supporting this coalition that is standing up for T&T’s democracy. “Some PNM units from distant areas are coming, via hired maxi taxis, and also among our presence will be members of our executive elected last Sunday.
“We are joining this coalition effort to send Government a signal on all the issues of concern so large numbers are expected today.” Neil Wilson of Tobago PNM’s unit said hundreds of Tobagonians were coming. New PNM lady vice chairman Pennelope Beckles said the Women’s League was going to mobilise female members to join the march.
MSJ leader David Abdulah, whose group has been lobbying throughout T&T to heighten MSJ’s profile, also said the march would be very large. Yesterday Abdulah spoke about the MSJ’s position on the upcoming THA elections, saying the party had not decided on it.
“We will announce our decision on this at our upcoming congress and whatever decision that we take will be cognisant of the fact that Tobago is a special situation and that MSJ respects the right of Tobagonians to determine their future. So whatever decision we take will be guided by our commitment to that principle,” he said.
Former COP vice chairman Vernon de Lima said he would be present at the starting point of the march at Woodford Square but could not participate in the entire march since he had a 3 pm High Court appointment
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war, doh frighten, nothing eh go happen!
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war, doh frighten, nothing eh go happen!
I eh worry deeks .. I live fareign for too long to worry bout a bunch a dumbass marching di streets .. I hope dey start a riot and let police kill sum a dem ...
war
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dais di people who voted for PNM last election.. sour puss mi sey...
THOUSANDS of citizens yesterday took to the streets of the capital city, calling for Attorney General Anand Ramlogan and National Security Minister Jack Warner to hit the road.
The march, which began at Woodford Square, Port of Spain, around 1.20 p.m. yesterday, lasted just over two hours and ended with a public meeting on the Brian Lara Promenade.
At the promenade, a vote was held parliamentary-style where the crowd was asked whether Warner and Ramlogan should be fired.
The "ayes" had it.
A senior police officer at the march estimated the crowd to be around 25,000.
Several leaders who addressed the public meeting after the march estimated the crowd to be as much as 40,000.
Warner would however say the size of the crowd was 500, Ancel Roget, president general of the Oilfields Workers' Trade Union (OWTU), said yesterday.
At noon yesterday, a coalition of political parties, among them the People's National Movement (PNM), led by Dr Keith Rowley; Movement for Social Justice (MSJ), led by David Abdulah; and the Democratic National Assembly (DNA), led by Dr Kirk Meighoo, trade unions and civic groups gathered at Woodford Square, calling for Ramlogan and Warner to be fired.
When the march reached in front of the Attorney General's office at Cabildo Chambers on St Vincent Street, the crowd stopped.
"Anand have to go right now!" they chanted as armed officers of the Guard and Emergency Branch blocked the entrance.
During the march, Warner was labelled as a "runaway horse".
The march took place under surveillance of a National Security Ministry helicopter which flew overhead.
Members of the Guard and Emergency Branch, known as the riot squad, Mounted Branch officers and other uniformed and plain-clothes police were also present.
Three photographers and two cameramen from the police, who were in plain clothes, also took footage of the march.
The march was a continuation of the PNM's initial mobilisation last month against the Section 34 fiasco.
On September 18, Rowley led a march to the President's House to deliver a letter to demand a written explanation from Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar as to why the controversial Section 34 was prematurely selected to become law.
Meighoo estimated that "this march was much larger than the last one".
"I have served in the Parliament for 20-odd years. In this country, we had PNM governments, we had a NAR (National Alliance for Reconstruction) government, we had a UNC (United National Congress) government under Basdeo Panday, and we had differences with those governments; nobody more than the unions on this (head) table," Rowley said.
"They had issues with the government, but every occasion, it was a difference of opinion over policies and programmes, and that is okay," he said.
"But what has happened under the Kamla Persad-Bissessar Government never happened under any other government," Rowley said, in reference to the Section 34 debacle.
"You walked today because you saw a threat to democracy and an abuse by office-holders. For the first time, and the only time known to me, a Cabinet decided to use its authority of Cabinet to undermine the rule of law in the country to create a loophole for financiers of the party to get away," Rowley said, referring to Ish Galbaransingh and Steve Ferguson.
Abdulah was the last of the leaders to address the meeting.
Abdulah said although a motion of censure against Ramlogan was defeated in the Lower House, he wanted to conduct a similar vote on the promenade.
"Is Anand Ramlogan culpable in the Section 34 fiasco? All those in favour, say 'aye' ," Abdulah said.
"Aye!" the crowd said in response.
"All those against?" Abdulah said.
There was no response.
"The ayes have it," he said to loud applause.
Abdulah then conducted a similar vote for Warner, who he said has abused his power as National Security minister.
"So I put it to you now; notice of censure to remove Jack Warner as minister of National Security for his abuse of executive power. All those in favour, say 'aye'."
"Aye!" the crowd responded.
"Any against?" Abdulah said.
"No!" the crowd said.
"They ayes have it," Abdulah said.
Roget called on citizens to prepare themselves for the next move if Ramlogan and Warner are not fired.
Roget said the country may have to be shut down in order to save it.
Former attorney general Ramesh Lawrence Maharaj said the entire Cabinet is guilty in relation to the Section 34 fiasco.
Lawrence Maharaj said when the People's Partnership won elections, he was interviewed by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar for the office of attorney general.
Lawrence Maharaj said Persad-Bissessar asked him if he would raise alarms if issues of corruption were present in the Government.
Ramlogan was named Attorney General.
Ramesh said several Cabinet members have become millionaires and billionaires since entering the Government.
"Our country is in crisis; they have brought our country to its knees. They have, in effect, made us try to forget our moral values," he said.
"Some of them, in the short space of time, I would not call names today, but some of them, they remain nameless for the time being, some of them are millionaires already, some are even billionaires," Lawrence Maharaj said.
Lawrence Maharaj said he has information that a Cabinet minister tried to buy a house for $38 million in cash.
He said another Cabinet member has bought over 13 properties since being named a minister.
The properties are listed under a third-party's name, he said.
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wait nahit have sour puss in England too.. :rotfl: :rotfl:
supporters protest in London
A small group of People's National Movement (PNM) supporters staged a symbolic protest in front of the Trinidad and Tobago High Commission in London yesterday to coincide with the march in Port of Spain.
They were invited into the mission by this country's High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, Garvin Nicholas.
In a telephone interview yesterday, president of PNM Abroad and organiser of the London protest, Pearce Robinson, told the Express that the protest was a success although the numbers were small.
Robinson said the protest which was scheduled to start around 9 a.m. really got off the ground between 9.50 a.m.and 10 a.m with a group of 15 people when Nicholas came out and invited them into the mission.
"We were outside for about an hour protesting and we were addressing various concerns out there: Section 34, Jack Warner, call for integrity in public office and various things and we had cars driving by and beeping their horns in a show of support. I think it was beginning to be very embarrassing to the High Commissioner and he came out to speak with us.
"He invited us in for tea which I believe was more PR than anything, and we talked about how we viewed the Section 34 issue as a blight on our nation's democracy and several other issues including Jack Warner. What we asked the High Commissioner is that he relay all these issues to the Prime Minister (Kamla Persad-Bissessar) and the government."
Robinson said they were satisfied with the turnout in London. Similar protest action at the New York Consulate and the Toronto High Commission were cancelled because of the aftermath of hurricane Sandy, he said.
"Contrary to reports about there being a no show in Toronto that was not the case, because two days ago we announced on PNM Abroad (a Facebook page) that we had informed our organisers that we had also cancelled the Toronto leg due to the effects of Hurricane Sandy. We will reschedule the protests in Toronto and New York. Those protests are yet to happen, at a date to be announced," he said.
Speaking with the Express, Nicholas said he met with about 10 or 11 people who staged the protest outside the mission.
"I saw them outside milling about trying to get themselves organised. It was pretty cold outside so I decided, look let me just go have a word with them and find out exactly what their grouse is all about and I invited them into the mission so that we could sit and chat and discuss the issues: Minister Jack Warner should go, Attorney General Anand Ramlogan should go and they were calling for democracy. "
He said he told them that as the High Commissioner to the UK and someone who has called for the democratic principles to be adhered to, he had no issue with any national protesting.
"I far as I am concerned this Government does not have any intention whatsoever of curbing the freedom of expression or speech freedom of association and if citizens believe they want to protest about something then they are free to do so, but I don't think they were achieving much just standing around out in the cold."
He said he told them that he would take their issues to the Government and they were quite happy after the discussion.
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Volney: Marchers just beating a dead horse
Section 34 is a dead horse, former justice minister Herbert Volney said yesterday as he commented on the march in Port of Spain.
The march was organised by the Joint Trade Union Movement (JTUM) and the Opposition People's National Movement (PNM).
Volney, who was a key player in both the changes to the Administration of Justice Act which produced Section 34 as well as its early proclamation of Section 34, told the Express: "Section 34 is just the name given to marches and to anything that is anti-People's Partnership Government. And nothing was going to emerge from this march other than the trade unions and the PNM would have marched under 34 degrees of hot sun."
Volney said 34 was going to be the most popular number in this year in the country. He said there had never been so many days in which the temperature soared to 34 degrees. "And by the end of the year it would be the heat, whether political or otherwise, that would be remembered, not any Section 34."
He said the PNM was exploiting the long-settled Section 34 issue for general mobilisation, "to keep the flame of political relevance alive".
Asked whether the large numbers in the march was cause for concern, he said the People's Partnership Government could easily bring out 34,000 supporters "with just 34 hours notice" to attend a rally in Aranjuez Savannah.
"So numbers don't really mean anything until the elections come. And then whoever wins 34 seats would be able to amend the Constitution to bring about the kind of changes that we need so that it is the number that both the Government and Opposition should be looking for (in any election)," he said, playing on the number 34.
He said it is the year of 34 (in Play Whe) "the blind man". "As for myself, I was the blind man in the pack and I can now see clearly".
He said the march had nothing to do with Section 34. "Section 34 is the rallying cry for all persons who are opposed to the Government," he said, adding that
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wait nahit have sour puss in England too.. :rotfl: :rotfl:
supporters protest in London
A small group of People's National Movement (PNM) supporters staged a symbolic protest in front of the Trinidad and Tobago High Commission in London yesterday to coincide with the march in Port of Spain.
They were invited into the mission by this country's High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, Garvin Nicholas.
In a telephone interview yesterday, president of PNM Abroad and organiser of the London protest, Pearce Robinson, told the Express that the protest was a success although the numbers were small.
Robinson said the protest which was scheduled to start around 9 a.m. really got off the ground between 9.50 a.m.and 10 a.m with a group of 15 people when Nicholas came out and invited them into the mission.
"We were outside for about an hour protesting and we were addressing various concerns out there: Section 34, Jack Warner, call for integrity in public office and various things and we had cars driving by and beeping their horns in a show of support. I think it was beginning to be very embarrassing to the High Commissioner and he came out to speak with us.
"He invited us in for tea which I believe was more PR than anything, and we talked about how we viewed the Section 34 issue as a blight on our nation's democracy and several other issues including Jack Warner. What we asked the High Commissioner is that he relay all these issues to the Prime Minister (Kamla Persad-Bissessar) and the government."
Robinson said they were satisfied with the turnout in London. Similar protest action at the New York Consulate and the Toronto High Commission were cancelled because of the aftermath of hurricane Sandy, he said.
"Contrary to reports about there being a no show in Toronto that was not the case, because two days ago we announced on PNM Abroad (a Facebook page) that we had informed our organisers that we had also cancelled the Toronto leg due to the effects of Hurricane Sandy. We will reschedule the protests in Toronto and New York. Those protests are yet to happen, at a date to be announced," he said.
Speaking with the Express, Nicholas said he met with about 10 or 11 people who staged the protest outside the mission.
"I saw them outside milling about trying to get themselves organised. It was pretty cold outside so I decided, look let me just go have a word with them and find out exactly what their grouse is all about and I invited them into the mission so that we could sit and chat and discuss the issues: Minister Jack Warner should go, Attorney General Anand Ramlogan should go and they were calling for democracy. "
He said he told them that as the High Commissioner to the UK and someone who has called for the democratic principles to be adhered to, he had no issue with any national protesting.
"I far as I am concerned this Government does not have any intention whatsoever of curbing the freedom of expression or speech freedom of association and if citizens believe they want to protest about something then they are free to do so, but I don't think they were achieving much just standing around out in the cold."
He said he told them that he would take their issues to the Government and they were quite happy after the discussion.
What a thing! Protesters neutralized by a cup of tea. Next time walk wid a Thermos.
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The march took place under surveillance of a National Security Ministry helicopter which flew overhead.
Members of the Guard and Emergency Branch, known as the riot squad, Mounted Branch officers and other uniformed and plain-clothes police were also present.
Three photographers and two cameramen from the police, who were in plain clothes, also took footage of the march.
This is so heavy-handed as to border on the obscene.
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The march took place under surveillance of a National Security Ministry helicopter which flew overhead.
Members of the Guard and Emergency Branch, known as the riot squad, Mounted Branch officers and other uniformed and plain-clothes police were also present.
Three photographers and two cameramen from the police, who were in plain clothes, also took footage of the march.
This is so heavy-handed as to border on the obscene.
Welcome to Airstrip One. Oops, I just committed a thought crime!
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ansa to your question is no , they are not a cult they are sum sour f**kin puss!!!!!!!!
Is the PNM a cult?
Justice Minister wants to know:
By Asha Javeed asha.javeed@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Nov 24, 2012 at 9:57 PM ECT
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Story Updated: Nov 25, 2012 at 1:25 PM ECT )
After a fierce performance in the Senate last Tuesday, Justice Minister Christlyn Moore seemingly emerged as the government's poster child for the upcoming Tobago House of Assembly (THA) election.
Responding to a motion brought by Independent Senator Fitzgerald Hinds on the principles and practices of democracy in Trinidad and Tobago, Moore — who's been a minister for two months — jumped into a verbal scathing of THA chief secretary Orville London, citing instances where she believed democracy had failed Tobagonians.
In a first interview with the Sunday Express last Friday, Moore claimed Tobagonians were now being psychologically intimidated to vote for the People's National Movement (PNM) through statements made by London.
To qualify her claim, Moore said London told attendees at an election rally two weeks ago he won't forgive any Tobagonian who does not vote for the PNM at the THA polls.
"You have to be concerned about a leader who says he won't forgive you. Is this a cult? It has shades of cultism in it and when you are talking about a small community, a statement like that will naturally ignite fears of being identified with a certain party and being actively discriminated against," she said.
This psychological intimidation was supported by evidence, she added.
"It cannot be right that any political party on any political platform suggests to people that, if you don't vote for me, East Indians will take your land. That cannot be right. It cannot be right where any political party in the lead-up to any election circulates a questionnaire, on of the questions thereon — would you be comfortable being led by an Indian Prime Minister? Those things are not accidents. Those things are deliberate and they are designed to excite a certain passion and a certain fear," she charged.
And nine weeks ahead of the THA elections, Moore said reports she had received indicated that Tobagonians were wary of openly declaring their allegiances for fear of intimidation.
But this THA elections won't be fought lightly, a fact that Moore is well aware of.
Asked if she thought her statement in Parliament was too political, she pointed out that it was a "confluence of opportunities."
"I can't run from it. The question of democracy and the issues surrounding it are not Trinidad issues or Tobago issues. As it turned out the motion coincided with some real issues that are alive in Tobago now. And that also coincided with the fact that Tobagonians have an opportunity to confront those issues and change them, change the landscape if they so desire, in nine weeks. It really was an opportunity, I didn't think I should miss.
"I am mindful that the Ministry of Justice spans delivery for the administration of justice in T&T and so it is not my intention to suggest that I am Tobago-centric in the performance or execution of my duties," she added.
She doesn't want to appear as a Johnny-come-lately in championing Tobago's cause and was quick to dismiss the suggestion that her statements makes her "the face" of the People's Partnership in the pending THA polls.
In her view, she's simply a proud Tobagonian from the village of Lambeau.
She gives credit to the community which she said raised her.
Unfortunately, to eke out a living she re-located to Trinidad, after being admitted to the bar, to set up a private practice.
"My community really supported me. It would do them a disservice if I didn't say I was Tobagonian," she remarked.
When it comes to talking about Tobago, the self-described fitness fiend gets quickly animated. On her personal life, she's more deliberate in how she addresses issues. Her family gets her excited, shopping doesn't. Good food, healthy living and dedicated work are her trademarks.
Moore has concluded that Tobagonians have been short-changed by the London led-THA.
In her estimation, there was little to show for the $20 billion allocated to the THA in the past 12 years.
Personally, Moore has two sore points — the re-location to Trinidad as there was no opportunity for her to pursue law in Tobago in the manner in which she wanted and that the Scarborough Library has not yet been completed.
On the first, she explained that Tobagonians often have to relocate to Trinidad to practise certain professions because of limited opportunities on the sister isle.
And as an avid reader — of thriller writers who include John Grisham and Robert Ludlum — she's unsatisfied that young Tobagonians cannot benefit from access to books.
It was her love for books and literature which drew her to law, she observed.
Law was her passion, oratory her fascination. The combination lead her to become a criminal lawyer but it didn't quite pay the bills over the years which led her to hone her skills in civil matters.
Prior to being Justice Minister, Moore was a director of the Trinidad and Tobago International Financial Centre and worked as a junior counsel at the Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 coup attempt and has worked on several matters for state companies which include UDeCOTT and well as being a member of a committee which did public consultations on the Green Paper on Internal Self-Government for Tobago.
And when Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar knocked on her door, she saw it as an opportunity for public service.
"The administration of justice and criminal matters are subjects I am interested in by virtue of my profession. Both the administration of justice and the future of the administration of criminal justice would have been challenged, as it were at that time. I saw it as an opportunity to serve and keep those two train tracks running parallel," she said of her ministerial acceptance.
Unlike the public scrutiny which has been paid to Section 34 of the Administration of Justice (Indictable Proceedings) Act, whose early proclamation and repeal cost her predecessor Herbert Volney his job, Moore said she was occupied in other matters engaging her attention. She did not want to discuss Section 34 as there were currently cases before the courts on the issue.
Moore's first task has been getting the implementation of the administration of justice in a tidy timetable to be rolled out into the country's courts. This, she said, will provide swift justice for clients.
"I would say that serious lawyers want matters to end so that they can move on, devote their considerable time and energy to the next matter. If you have a commitment to ethics, you have a commitment to a client," she said.
In her view, the system of preliminary enquiries had "long since stopped working."
"We grew as a population. More and more matters came before the courts. Legal arguments became more refined over time. You have a growing population, you have growing arguments because the law is not static, it develops. Despite what we do in T&T, the body of law which we draw from develops. It develops in London, Hong Kong, across the Commonwealth so we pull from all of that.
"So you have a widening layer of arguments on a widening population on a static system of processing criminal matters. We were bound to get to this place. We've been here a lot longer than we'd like to think, when we know that the system is not quite working. We just need to move on. Transform into something new," she said.
She said the abolition of preliminary enquiries would be implemented on a staggered basis.
This she said, would be done with pilots much like what was done with the Family Court when it was first launched.
"The effect that will be brought about from removing preliminary enquiries is nothing short of revolutionary. When you bring about such a fundamental change, the possibility before for a non-smooth transition is high. When you do such a revolutionary change, you want to give the system an opportunity to work well and one way to do that is stagger implementation," she said