Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum

Sports => Football => Topic started by: Tallman on April 01, 2005, 08:34:05 AM

Title: Racism in football Thread.
Post by: Tallman on April 01, 2005, 08:34:05 AM
Player protest halts Ron Atkinson's appointment
By Lasana Liburd (Trinidad Express)


Ghanian-born ex-France international football captain, Marcel Desailly, has won the World Cup (1998), two Confederation Cups (2001, 2003), the European Championship (2000), two European Champions League titles (1993, 1994), two European Super Cups (1994, 1998), two Italian Serie A titles (1994, 1996) and one FA Cup (2000) over a glittering career at Marseille, AC Milan and Chelsea.

He is also "a f**king, lazy, thick nigger" according to "Big" Ron Atkinson, a former Manchester United and Aston Villa manager, disgraced English television commentator and, very nearly, the new Trinidad and Tobago national coach.

Atkinson was set to replace Bertille St Clair as T&T coach yesterday only for the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) to make a hasty about-turn after the national players allegedly threatened to revolt.

The England-based duo of team leader Dwight Yorke and ex-captain Shaka Hislop were alleged to be particularly defiant and mortified.

Yorke played for Atkinson in the early 1990s at Villa where the manager once ordered his teammate, Ugo Ehiogu, to punch and kick him during a session to toughen him up. Yorke, who was racially abused by two supporters at a Premiership match at Blackburn last year, allegedly refused to play under Atkinson.

Hislop, who is a co-founder and Hall of Fame member of the British anti-racism organisation, Show Racism The Red Card (SRTRC), also objected strenuously, according to a source who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Jack Warner, the T&TFF special advisor and FIFA vice-president, presided over the meeting and accepted the judgment of the players, although the T&TFF initially promised to unveil Atkinson as coach at 2 p.m. yesterday.

The T&TFF has often been accused of incompetence, dishonesty and dictatorial tendencies. Some might argue that gross insensitivity and stupidity be added to the list.

Last April, Atkinson resigned his £200,000-a-year job as commentator for top English television station, ITV, after calling Desailly "a f**king lazy thick nigger" following a Champions League match involving Chelsea and Monaco. ITV had stopped broadcasting to Britain and Atkinson was unaware that the microphone was still on. His racist jibe was aired live in the Middle East.

It was not the first time that Atkinson was guilty of racial insensitivity-at best-nor was it the last.

At the 1990 World Cup in Italy, Atkinson suggested that a Cameroon player had no brain but was quickly made to retract his statement on air. He had the final word during the halftime interval when he joked to his co-commentator that "I'll only get into trouble if his mother's back home watching the game sitting up a tree". His comments were again relayed in some countries because of a live microphone.

Remarkably, Atkinson put himself in more hot water, two months ago, with some disparaging remarks about Chinese women in a fund-raiser at Sheffield Wednesday. This time, he told an audience of more than 250 people that "the Chinese people have the best contraception in the world-but I can't understand why there's so many of them because their women are so ugly".

Chinese national striker Hao Haidong retorted that Atkinson "should be beaten black and blue and made to thoroughly shut up", while Manchester City defender Sun Jihai accused him of ignorance and racism.

Atkinson, as in each incident, thought too much was made of nothing.

"I cannot believe anyone has complained about anything I said," he told the Sheffield Star. "I went there to help them out and to raise money. I stayed for ages and did photographs. I can't believe this...I just can't believe this.

"I can't say anything now. I've been ultra-careful about everything."

Warner was allegedly ready to give Atkinson a chance of redemption-or a public relations ploy-by allowing him to take charge of the Trinidad and Tobago squad.

Atkinson is rumoured to have topped a shortlist that included former Holland, Ajax and Real Madrid coach Leo Beenhakker and Newcastle, England and Manchester City manager Kevin Keegan.

Warner could not be reached to confirm his selection of Atkinson, or to explain the reason for his choice.

Still, Atkinson is not without his own supporters.

He is considered to be a hero to the black community, in some circles, for his work at West Brom who he coached from 1978 to 1981 and famously selected three black players-Brendon Batson, Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham-when most clubs did not field even one.

Carlton Palmer, one of a handful of black players to win England caps in the 1980s or early 1990s, said he considered Atkinson to be a friend and insisted he was not racist, while Jamaican-born former Liverpool star John Barnes said he preferred to judge Atkinson by his "actions".

The Trinidad and Tobago football team disagreed.

Title: Re: Player protest halts Ron Atkinson's appointment
Post by: KND on April 01, 2005, 08:38:36 AM
Good Move

Let him go and coach a white nation,
Black people around the world need to boycott his ass from now till forever.

No football game is worth Human pride
Title: Re: Player protest halts Ron Atkinson's appointment
Post by: arrow on April 01, 2005, 08:46:01 AM
I am totally amazed that Warner and Co. would choose Ron over the other 2.  Haven't they heard these widely publicized stories before?  They really must be clueless yes.
Title: Re: Player protest halts Ron Atkinson's appointment
Post by: AB.Trini on April 01, 2005, 09:18:29 AM
Let's not be too surprised by any moves or decisions from Mr, Warner. Just recall one of the early lyrics from the past:


"Is money they love, money they crave, money go lead dem tuh the grave but not me ,
They eh getting my dollars"

He bumpming , he moving  he saga thing.......lalalallala"
Title: Re: Player protest halts Ron Atkinson's appointment
Post by: supporter on April 01, 2005, 12:21:53 PM
ttff dodged a bullet for sure. why would they consider him over the other two?i dont know.thank god its leo we've got
Title: Re: Player protest halts Ron Atkinson's appointment
Post by: NC on April 01, 2005, 01:58:30 PM
We all know who Ron is because he was always willing to run his mouth like the idiot that he is.  But please let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the others do not share the same sentiments.  Racism is a basic tenant of the institutions that they were trained in. 
Title: Racism in football Thread.
Post by: NC on April 18, 2005, 07:55:41 AM
Make Racism Illegal - Perfect Solution?

Argentine Player Remains Jailed for Alleged Racist Slurs
Desabato Could Face Three-Year Prison Term if Found Guilty
By TALES AZZONI, AP Sports

SAO PAULO, Brazil (April 14) - Quilmes defender Leandro Desabato cannot leave Brazil before his trial for using racial slurs against a Brazilian player during a Copa Libertadores match, a judge ruled on Friday.

   
 
Reuters
Leandro Desabato walks into a Sao Paulo police station after being arrested on racism charges. 
   

Judge Marcos Zili set bail at $4,000 and ordered the Argentine defender not to leave the country until his case comes to court.

Desabato, who was awaiting release from jail on Thursday night, could face a three-year prison term if he is found guilty of insulting Sao Paulo striker Grafite during Sao Paulo's 3-1 victory on Wednesday.

Grafite - who is black - made a formal complaint and said he would not withdraw it.

"It's nothing personal, but it's my right as a citizen," the striker said on Thursday. "He called me 'blacky' and 'monkey.' Maybe this will make a difference to blacks, not only in Brazil, but around the world."

   
 Talk About It 
   
   
  Post a Message | Chat
 Today's Top Sports Talk   
   
National team coach Carlos Alberto Parreira said the remarks had no place in soccer, where some of the top players - like Brazilian great Pele - were black.

"In a globalized world, an attitude like this is incomprehensible, especially in sports," he said. "Soul has no color. Every expression of racism must be condemned."

The Argentine was escorted off the field by police after the match, and arrested later because the insults were caught by television cameras.

"It should've been handled differently," Quilmes coach Gustavo Alfaro said. "They shouldn't have done that in the middle of the field, in front of everybody."

"Racist insults happen all the time in soccer and nobody ever did anything about it," Sao Paulo coach Emerson Leao said. "It's important someone finally took an action to contain such remarks."

Several Brazilian players - including stars Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos - have been subjected to racist insults in Europe in recent months.

   
 More Soccer News 
   
   
 

 
Check AOL's International soccer coverage.
- AOL UK | AOL Latino
 
 
   
"This should be seen as an example for the entire world," Sao Paulo president Marcelo Portugal Gouvea told Radio Jovem Pan. "This kind of attitude should not be tolerated anywhere."

Lawyers for Quilmes tried to get Desabato released.

"(Desabato) gave contradictory statements, but apparently he thought it wasn't a crime to say what he said," police officer Dejar Gomes Neto said.

The Quilmes team, which had been scheduled to return to Argentina on Thursday morning, remained in Brazil waiting for Desabato.

"They can't come to Brazil and go unpunished after acts like that," police agent Oswaldo Nico Goncalves said.

Norberto Vidal, Argentina's consul in Sao Paulo, said he expected Desabato to be released soon.

"The laws here are severe when it comes to racism, but there's no reason he needs to remain in jail. We are working to solve this problem," Vidal said.

On Wednesday, Desabato and Grafite got into an altercation in the 44th minute after a heated dispute.

Grafite ended up pushing Desabato and was ejected by Uruguayan referee Martin Vazquez. Quilmes midfielder Carlos Arano was also sent off because he got involved in the altercation.

Grafite had previously said that he was subjected to racism during Sao Paulo's first encounter with Quilmes in Argentina last month, prompting Quilmes' directors to send a letter of apology to Sao Paulo.


04/14/05 19:14 EDT

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

Title: Racism in football Thread.
Post by: Flex on May 27, 2005, 03:10:08 PM
Yorke to deliver message against Racism at Panama match.
By: Shaun Fuentes.


Trinidad and Tobago skipper Dwight Yorke will deliver a short message on behalf of this country before kick off in next Saturday’s 2006 World Cup qualifier against Panama following FIFA’s request for the teams to make a public declaration against racism in football.
Yorke is expected back in Trinidad on Sunday to rejoin the team for the live-in camp from Monday straight up until Saturday’s encounter.
The decision by FIFA is part of their initiative to stamp racism out of the sport and a banner reading “Say no to Racism” will be on display at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on the evening. Fans are being urged to come out in their numbers, not only to support the “Warriors” in the vital affair but also to join the fight against racism. Currently the Thierry Henry endorsed black and white anti-racism wristbands are popular while members of the National Team are sporting the red ‘Soca Warrior’ wristbands which fans are being urged to wear as a means of  supporting the team and also being a ‘Warrior’ against crime, violence and even racism in T&T. These bands can be purchased at Sports & Games, Sports Master and Sports Outlet shops.
T&T will also take part in the Unity Cup in London next month which is also geared towards breaking racial barriers. Nigeria, Ghana and Jamaica will also take part in the action which takes place at Upton Park from June 11.
Yorke among several other world renowned footballers have been subjected to racist remarks against them with his latest occurrence being the abuse from Blackburn Rovers fans in November 2004.
English-based goalkeeper Shaka Hislop recently received a special award from the Professional Footballers Association for his part in the fight against racism over the years. He was a founder of the “Show Racism the Red Card” campaign since his days at Newcastle United.
“Indeed it was an honour to get the award for the efforts that have gone on  in the fight against racism. The fact is that it is a problem not just in football but on outside as well and we all have a part to play in getting rid of it especially the fans and it’s great when they can identify with the fight at matches and other events,” Hislop told TTFF Media.
Last October a father and son were convicted after racially abusing Hislop during Pompey's 2-0 win over Manchester United.
He was not aware of the abuse until after it had happened. “There have been some high-profile incidents, like the abuse the England players received in Madrid earlier this year and Dwight Yorke's incident up at Blackburn," he said.
"When I was targeted I was fantastically proud of the way it was dealt with. It was fans who reported it, and the club were very hard in their stance against it. That sends out the right message. But the fact is there is still racism in the game, and all the time there is, the campaign must carry on."

Title: Brazil claims racism stand, Argentina cries farce
Post by: AB.Trini on July 03, 2005, 01:58:45 PM
by Guest Column 
 
Posted on 15 April 2005

By Brian Homewood (Reuters)
A major victory in the fight to wipe racism out of soccer or just another twist in the long-standing rivalry between Brazil and Argentina?

Brazil claims it has set a worldwide example in the battle against discrimination by arresting Argentine defender Leandro Desabato for allegedly using racist terms to insult an opponent in the Libertadores Cup match between Sao Paulo and Quilmes.

Officials of the visiting Buenos Aires team said they were victims of a farce and claimed the Brazilians had over-reacted.

Desabato was arrested on the pitch after Wednesday's 3-1 defeat, accused of slander aggravated by racism, and was kept in custody while lawyers hired by the Argentine club applied for bail.

Desabato was granted bail by a judge on Thursday but spent a second night in a police cell because his representatives did not have time to pay the 10 000 real ($3 861) surety.

"The racist attitude of the Argentine player goes against all the values of equality, respect and unity which sport promotes," said the Brazilian Sports Ministry in a statement.

"This is an example for the rest of the world," said Marco Polo del Nero, president of the Paulista (Sao Paulo state) Football Federation.

LAWS BROKEN

Brazilian police say Desabato broke the laws of the land by racially insulting his opponent.

Critics, however, point out that the law is broken week-in, week-out on pitches all around the country where scything double-footed tackles from behind, vicious elbowing and punch-ups are common as well as all kinds of verbal insults.

Despite the on-field violence, there have been no major cases in Brazil of players being arrested for an incident during a match.

Some punch-ups, including one involving Santos and Corinthians players in 2003, have ended up in a police station but the protagonists are usually released after questioning.

In other parts of the world, authorities have also preferred to leave incidents during matches to the football tribunals, even in cases that would be considered criminal if they happened on the street.

A rare exception occurred in 1995 in Britain when Scotland and Everton striker Duncan Ferguson was jailed for head-butting an opponent.

Quilmes coach Gustavo Alfaro said Desabato had been arrested on the flimsiest of evidence.

"A football match should start and finish on the pitch," he said. "The witnesses are two television viewers who said they read his (Desabato's) lips."

Quilmes vice-president Jose Luis Meizner said: "This is not a coincidence, it seems that in Brazil there's a competition with Europe to see which country is leading the fight against racism."

CONTAMINATED WATER

In the end, the episode could go down as another incident in the long history of football rivalry between the two countries.

Only three months ago, an old controversy resurfaced about the possibility that Argentina players might have offered contaminated water to a Brazilian player during a match at the 1990 World Cup.

Argentines still remember Tulio's notorious Hand of God goal in the 1995 Copa America tie, which Brazil went on to win on penalties.

Sao Paulo coach Emerson Leao has never forgotten that he was injured during a huge brawl as coach of Atletico Mineiro after they beat Lanus 4-1 in Buenos Aires in the final of the 1997 Copa Conmebol.

He mentioned it again as he commented on the case after Wednesday's match, backing the decision to prosecute the Quilmes player.

"They have to take this to the bitter end," he said. "Let it be an example."

Brazil travel to Argentina for a World Cup qualifier in June while clubs from the two countries are likely to meet in the knockout stages of the Libertadores Cup between now and July.

Another round of controversy is unlikely to be far away.

 

Title: Re: Brazil claims racism stand, Argentina cries farce
Post by: AB.Trini on July 03, 2005, 02:00:54 PM
Racial Discrimination in Argentina


Vernellia R. Randall
Professor of Law and
Web Editor

   

 Human Rights Documentation Center
http://www.hrdc.net/

Executive Summary, Racial Discrimination: The Record of Argentina , Human Rights Documentation Center (September 2001)

 

WHILE Argentina has considered itself a crisol de razas or melting pot, it has only recently begun to recognize itself as a multicultural, multiracial society. The government of Argentina has taken significant formal steps toward the elimination of racial discrimination over the last decade. However, the measures provided by legal and institutional changes are still in the initial stages of implementation and have been substantially hindered by a lack of funds, the logistical and political complications associated with the transfer of power from one party to another in 1999, and Argentina's history of racism.

Most sources report Argentina's population as 97 per cent white (mostly of Spanish and Italian descent) and three percent mestizo (Amerindian' and European), Amerindian, or other nonwhite groups. One of the difficulties in assessing and addressing persistent forms of racial discrimination in Argentina is the lack of adequate information about the population, particularly the indigenous and immigrant communities. The national census scheduled for 2000 was postponed due to lack of funds. Historically, national census data has been collected using the category of national origin rather than race in Argentina, leading to undercounting Afro-Argentines and mestizos.

The official figures may overestimate the white population, but they certainly reflect the normative perception that the country is predominantly white. The nineteenth century founders of the nation aimed to make Argentina a white nation through various policies aimed at eliminating ethnic minority populations, while simultaneously encouraging European immigration. The 1853 Constitution is still largely in force today, and the preference for European immigration remains explicit. Racial discrimination persists against indigenous peoples, immigrants, Afro-Argentines, mestizo Argentines, Jews and Arabs.

Argentina's indigenous peoples face struggles concerning fundamental issues of survival, maintenance of cultural and linguistic integrity, land rights and bilingual education. Furthermore, the small, impoverished, socially maligned population must fight for mere recognition. Recent estimates of the indigenous population in Argentina vary widely from 450,000 to 1.5 million, approximately one to four per cent of the total Argentine population of approximately 36 million. These differing figures expose the lack of adequate census data on indigenous peoples, and make it difficult to gauge their civic and political participation. The last census of indigenous peoples was taken between 1965 and 1968.

Despite the constitutional recognition of indigenous people and formal protection of their rights to bilingual education, ownership of their ancestral lands, and guaranteed participation in resource management and development, in practice, indigenous peoples seldom participate in the management of their natural resources. In addition, indigenous peoples face social marginalization; for example, idiomatic slang like "hablo como un indio ' ('I'm speaking like an Indian") used when one does something considered stupid, enforces deprecatory views of indigenous peoples.

Immigration from other South American nations rose in the second half of the 2011 century. Korean immigrants also began to arrive in significant numbers in the 1970s (totaling approximately 30,000 by 1998). The delayed 2000 census and the large number of undocumented immigrants makes an accurate assessment of recent immigration difficult, but the 1991 census counted close to five per cent of the total population as foreign born. Undocumented immigrants are estimated at 50,000 to 2,500,000. While statistics are not available regarding the racial identity of the Latin American immigrants, given the primary source countries, it can be reasonably assumed that the majority of immigrants are mestizo or indigenous.

The widespread perception that Argentina is essentially white has meant that, as immigration from South America increases, Argentines of mestizo, indigenous and African ancestry are perceived as foreign, whether or not they are immigrants. Immigrants are disproportionately detained by the police, as the Minister of Justice admitted, but the government denies xenophobia. The public also perpetrates racial discrimination; for example, in admission to nightclubs in Buenos Aires, discrimination against Latin American immigrants and those who appear to be mestizo has been well documented.
Politicians have used rising crime rates in the metropolitan Buenos Aires area to fuel xenophobia and to argue for further restrictions on immigrants. They blame immigrants for the rise in crime, despite the government's own statistics demonstrating that immigrants were not responsible for the majority of crimes. News reports on the proposed legislation referred to foreign workers as an "invasion' and also blamed them for lower wages and high unemployment.

Discrimination against Korean immigrants significantly worsened after a series of news reports in 1993 on a case of Korean grocers exploiting undocumented Bolivian immigrant workers and stealing electricity from the State appeared in the press. A previous popular image of Koreans as industrious changed to an image of Koreans as poorly integrated, exclusive, and not willing to learn Spanish. Their presence in good schools and neighbourhoods has been described as an invasion.

The Jewish population in Argentina is estimated at two per cent. The most recent manifestations of Argentina's history of anti-Semitism include the terrorist bombings of the Israeli embassy (1992) and the Argentine Jewish Mutual Aid Association (1994), the desecration of Jewish cemeteries and the prevalence of swastikas among the graffiti on buildings (including government buildings) in Buenos Aires. Anti- Semitic attitudes are widespread among the populace, and many do not consider Jewish people to be truly Argentine. Anti-Semitism within security forces also remains a significant problem. For example, until popular agitation forced a change in 2000, a police manual contained racist and anti-Semitic expressions.

According to the Arab-Argentine chamber of commerce, there are Currently over 3.5 million Arab descendants in Argentina, notably including former President Carlos Menem. While his Syrian ancestry did not prevent him from being elected -- an important indicator of the lack of discrimination -- he was required to convert to Catholicism when he ran in 1989 (this prerequisite has since been abolished), and informal criticisms of him during his tenure were sometimes radicalized.

Violence and discrimination against women are ongoing problems in Argentina despite efforts in recent years to reduce these abuses. Indices of poverty and unemployment, especially in the context of the recent economic crisis, are of significant concern. Underemployment is 23.8 per cent for women while underemployment for men is 11.3 per cent; unemployment is 14.2 per cent for women and 11.4 per cent for men. Indigenous women and women belonging to other minority ethnic groups continue to suffer in particular from discrimination in employment. International trafficking in women involves luring immigrant women with lucrative and deceptive job offers, and forcing them into the Argentine sex trade.

In recent years, the Argentine government has made significant formal advances towards the elimination of discrimination and racism. The majority of these formal steps were undertaken by the administration of President Carlos Menem (1989-1999). However, the Menem administration was sharply criticized by human rights organizations, opposition political parties and the Catholic Church for xenophobia and antipathy to human rights agendas. The democratic transfer of power to the Alianza coalition party under the leadership of President Fernando de la Rua in December 1999 has furthered the anti-discrimination agenda of the government, but it has also delayed the implementation of relevant policies due to the change in leadership.

On 24 August 1994, the Argentine Constitution was amended in several ways that are relevant to the elimination of racial discrimination. In correspondence with international human rights instruments, new amendments prohibit discrimination, provide equal civil rights to nationals and foreigners, and recognize indigenous communities as previously-extant legal entities entitled to participation in relevant development issues. Under the auspices of the Instituto Nacional de Asuntos Indigenas (National Institute of Indigenous Affairs, INAT), various programmes have been established for furthering land re-distribution, bilingual education, health programmes, and rural economic development. Other articles allow for equal access to education, with protections for cultural identities and diversity, and give international human rights treaties, including the Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, equal standing with the Constitution.

In addition to these constitutional amendments, various laws have been passed and decrees issued in recent years with the aim of eliminating racial and other forms of discrimination, documenting the occurrence of discrimination, and enabling victims to seek redress. These include laws criminalizing discriminatory acts or omissions based on race, ratifying International Labour Organization Convention No. 169 concerning the rights Indigenous and Tribal Peoples in Independent Countries, and establishing the National Institute to Combat Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Racism (Instituto Nacional contra la Discriminacion, Xenophobia y Racismo, INADI).

INADI was established by law in 1995 with the objective of elaborating national policies and concrete measures to combat discrimination, xenophobia and racism, and with the mandate of initiating and fulfilling actions to this end. INADI has held anti-discrimination training sessions for schoolteachers and law enforcement officials, and has launched public education campaigns. It also has established a mechanism to receive complaints and take action thereon in the courts. However, with difficult economic situations, anti- discrimination, government agencies like INADI and INAI suffer increased budget constraints. INADI faces difficulty in covering the entire national territory, and does not have funding to track statistics on racial discrimination and on its responses to the complaints it receives.

The Argentine government's recent measures against racial discrimination are commendable, but they are only a step on the way. Discrimination persists against immigrants, indigenous populations, and other racial minorities, and the government must increase funding to anti-discrimination agencies, collect census data, and launch public education programs to insure that legal measures translate into genuine relief for Argentina's maligned populations.
 
 
Title: Re: Brazil claims racism stand, Argentina cries farce
Post by: AB.Trini on July 03, 2005, 02:07:19 PM
ARGENTINEAN SOCCER & RACE
http://www.trincoll.edu/~ldunaway/argentinean_soccer.htm

    Soccer in Argentina, is an important way of life, for most young people, it is the only way of life. Children would clear pastures (fields) of rocks, and mark the goals off with stones.  The people were so poor that there was no ball, they used women's stockings all wrapped up together. From a very young age the children were taught to play for the love of the game, nothing else. For these young children, Argentine soccer was a way of life, not just a sport, it defined who these people were.     

    More than 85% of the people that live in Argentina are of white European decent.  15% are a mix between European and  Indigenous people, better know as 'Mestizos.'  During the colonial period Argentina consisted of a large black population, but as the 19th century came about the population dwindled to a few thousand.  The reason for this decline in the black population was due to many things: There were many wars which mostly blacks participated in, racially missed marriages took place, because there was a shortage of black men, disease and also the slave trade.  "Overall, however, the substantially reduced numbers of Afro-Argentines — by some accounts the population totals only a few thousand — have enabled Argentina to deny the historic relevance of blacks and portray theirs as a white nation free of racism. An article appearing in The Montreal Gazette in 1998 quotes a Buenos Aires museum director's response to the possibility of an Afro-Argentine exhibit: "We have too many important events and personalities to show. We can't waste space putting things that don't have any relevance to our history." The country's self-image coexists with continued manifestations of racism. The same article explains that when the Argentine soccer team was to play either the Brazilian or Nigerian team in the Olympic finals, a sports newspaper ran the headline, "Bring on the Monkeys," eliciting protests from the governments of both potential opponents. As of the late 1990s efforts by scholars like Andrews, Goldberg, Chace, and others seek to confront such persistent racism and ensure that the historic significance of Afro-Argentines is not forgotten."(Roanne Edwards)

    Soccer is one of the largest sports in the world, and grosses $250 billion dollars a year.  The organization know as FIFA, promotes the "shared common values that transcend culture, social division and racial differences." (Rob Hughes) The world would be a better place, if it were more like a soccer field, Joseph Blatter (the president of FIFA) states. Racism has slowly made it's way into the soccer scene, throughout the years and is the greatest threat to the sport.  There are many ideas to combat the threat of racism: "if, as soccer claims, it generates $250 billion annually around the world, the bulk of it in Europe where racism festers, one suggestion to disinfect the sport from nihilism could be a soccer intelligence unit. Rather than attempting to confront the thugs, the goal would be to infiltrate, observe and inform the police, who in some countries lack the resources and know-how to nip racism in the ugly bud. That, and considerably more meaningful punishments than a two-match suspension to a blatant racist on the pitch."(Rob Hughes)

    Even though, racism does exists in Argentine soccer; like in Brazilian soccer the game is still played because it is an intricate part of the countries history.  Soccer came to Argentina much like it came to Brazil.  It started off as an elite sport and slowly transcended to the peasantry.  Soon soccer became a way of life, people were playing it in the stadiums, parks and streets.  The game began to embody the culture of the Brazilian people. Racism has been apart of the game and still is but, "when all is said and done they (the players) play for the love of the game and because they're bloody good and the game wouldn't be the same if they were not in it." (Miranda Pine) One of these players who played for the love of the game was Diego Maradona.

Title: Re: Brazil claims racism stand, Argentina cries farce
Post by: Trini _2022 on July 03, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
David Trezeguet and veron are the only  black people i have seen from argentina
Title: Re: Brazil claims racism stand, Argentina cries farce
Post by: Israel on July 03, 2005, 04:33:42 PM
Trezeguet isnt french?
Title: Re: Brazil claims racism stand, Argentina cries farce
Post by: Jah Gol on July 03, 2005, 04:51:20 PM
Trezeguet's Mother is a black woman from France. I don't know what de hell Veron is.

Racism is a problem in Argentina. I was watching a program on GOL TV called 45/45 where one of the commentators (an Argentine) said that the ball moved on a penalty before the player struck it because the Africans ( He was referring to Nigeria in particular) performed black magic on the ball.

On another debate on GOL TV which was in English they said that a lot of these things are misunderstanding because of differences in culture and language. They pointed to the fact that in Uruguay they use a word to discribe black people which is harmless to them but extremely offensive in Brazil. That seems kind of strange to me, why during a game would want to call an opposing player a name like that. There must be an intention to insult the player.

At the end of the day football mirrors society and ignorance thrives in emotional environments like sport. While players must be encouraged to execute principles of sportmanship etc. I don't think this can't be tackled isolated from the social realty. If you're a racist off the pitch, I don't see how it will change when on the pitch. The monkey noises I heard in the Spain - England game particularly weren't coming from just 10 people. Those countries need to sort out their business.
Title: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: Touches on September 30, 2005, 09:18:54 PM
Real good documentary about Racism in football.

They trying to make it look like football is a white extremist sport to the US public.

They showing all the games in Spain and Italy and the fan and player behaviour.

They also showing the English national team and the views of the racisits across there. They have a group called the National front and the man say black footballers are not English. So gumble say but they are born and bred here....hear the man response "If a dog is born in a stable its still not a horse they are not English."

They interview Thierry henry as well and show him and other players getting boo on the pitch.

When you check it all our players who pass thru the wars real had a hard time, it isnt easy out there for them to succeed.

Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: AB.Trini on September 30, 2005, 09:38:27 PM
It never cease to amaze me the way in which the public devours the football/soccer coverage in North America. I have been very critical with the Canadian sports channels with their lack of coverage of CONCACAF.I have send Emails and have made numerous pleads  for expanded coverage of games outside of Europe. We need to rise the profile of the sport in te CONCACAF region and we as fans should be sending endless messages to our media for more coverage.

Last month  on a program titled 'Soccer Central' they  mentioned the USA victory but did not even acknowledge TNT games. It is appalling to watch and listen to the very eurocentric media propaganda of the sport. Is it any wonder the foreign press could take liberties and brand us as 'soccer minnows'

Far from me to  chastize those who  are freverent fans of the sports; in as  far as I watch the occassional games, I am not and will not be seduced by  leagues which  claim to be the league of choice. There is an enthocentricim which prevails the soccer world; it is one which European countries attempt to control and monopolize.  Any  player of any reknown from countries out of Europe, are quickly  bought up on the 'common market' and  if they rae to  have any claim to fame are forced to ply their trade  with European  clubs. The economics, the viability, the stability of these clubs have enslaved our very best and then  to diminish our chance of any glory, is reeking havoc in efforts to undermine foreign players from representing thier countries in WCQ.

 I am not anti European football, I find it simply arrogrant and biased the way in which the media 'hypes' european football as it it is the be all and end all of football suppremacy!!! hence when it comes to  all WORLD CUP appearances, in lieu of a TNT appearance I rally for any African country and my favs... BRAZIL to kick all dem arse.
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: kounty on September 30, 2005, 10:05:04 PM
alberta...yuh gettin political on we here man....but you have to realize who yuh talking about eh!  is Europe yuh know!!!  dem is the same fellaz who extract all the minerals out of Africa, and send up all the sugar from the caribbean on the backs of slaves and indentured laborers back to Europe...and when the flow runnin thin they say, we goh let yuh become independent, and we go lend yuh this loan at 300% interest...and these 3rd world countries not paying back they debts man (never even dare mention repatriation of what they stole)!!!
Europe? Babylon? who in thier right mind will ever expect anything fair from them?
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: Trinimassive on October 01, 2005, 06:54:23 AM
I saw the program and yes the racism is there obviously. I didn't like the fact that the showcase this on HBO when in reality HBO, and B Gumble couldn't care less about football and racism. I thought it was an opportunist piece, even though it was good to highlight.

But in reality who is America to talk about Racism and in football to boot. Like they really care.

America is still the most racist country on Earth and most exploitive, the difference is that they have grown up and know how to hide it. They not as foward and obvious but when the going gets tough, the poor still dying right here.

Look at Katrina and the reaction right in this country. Doctors was on television saying that the gov't officials tell them to not help people because it is a liability (as if poor people going to sue after steups) and they also tell them don't give them water cause if you do they won't leave. Dem people sick in the head.

Just yesterday this former Gov't official Bill Bennet say about if you abort all the black babies in America you would see the crime rate drop and he say he sure of that. And they actually find people to agree with him.

look it here

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509280006

So the story was true but to me they make it see as if..... look everybody look what they doing over there as if it aint happening here. They may not be chanting monkey noises here but they lettin people die when people need help the most.

But is mostly white men though cause they know every now and then and then again the women want the mandingalingo.... and what yuh go do but help them out in they time ah need ;) :D
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: morvant on October 01, 2005, 08:04:21 AM
america love some fregging racism every chance dey get they go bring it up. ever since i come up here every time yuh see ah brother in work he talking bout the white mang him  bringing him down. brother simple and plain everything ah man put his mind to he will get.dem men talkin bout racism and up here they iz de most set ah racist i ever see in my life.i had to hit ah man a slap fuh dissing ah fellow trini and calling him taliban cause he is ah indian.in the end yes there is racism in european football we all know that, but we dont want anybody from in america to tell we dat.
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: Tenorsaw on October 01, 2005, 10:00:47 AM
Cause America take racism to the institutional level does not mean that they are any better.  In Europe there is probably more intermixing than America.  Only the surface does look good here, but when yuh dig below, the core of the matter is that this is still a segregated society, and many middle class and upper class white Americans hold very rigid, and often unrealistic sterortypes about black people.  Why is it that every white American think that being black should be equated to hip hop, for example.  I am a simple Caribbean man; not that I have anything with someone who listens to hip hop.  Ah just saying, they don't take the time to know us as indivuals because they consider us all the same.
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: SHOTTA on October 01, 2005, 10:08:48 AM
a slap dan?

get tha morvant mentality out a yuh system

anybody know wen the episode of real sports showing again?
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: dervaig on October 01, 2005, 10:16:23 AM
Tell Mr. Gumbel to start covering what's happening in New Orleans, and forget about
the World's MOST Popular game. That's racism!!!
Football above all sports can bring peace to this planet, 'cause in every corner of
the globe, people live and breathe the game.
Football is a peace maker, like no other sport!
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: Tenorsaw on October 01, 2005, 10:31:26 AM
The American media does go out of they way to portray football (yes the real football) as a violent game.  Ah don't think they understand the communal ties these clubs have and the long history that they have.  This ain't no franchise business where ytuh does move to get a tax shelter.  We all know about the loyalty of American sporting teams; it's all about loyalty to money, not the fans.  They can't stand to think that football is the world's game, and they'tre not dictating that.
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: JDB on October 01, 2005, 01:51:03 PM
a slap dan?

get tha morvant mentality out a yuh system

anybody know wen the episode of real sports showing again?


It is showing on HBO2 at 4.00 this afternoon and tomorrow morning on HBO at 9.00 am.

Other showtimes here (http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?CHANNEL=All+Channels&ACTION_SEARCH=SEARCH&KEY=TITLE&VALUE=real%20sports)

I'll comment when I check it out tomorrow.

Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: kicker on October 01, 2005, 04:14:20 PM
Tell Mr. Gumbel to start covering what's happening in New Orleans, and forget about
the World's MOST Popular game. That's racism!!!
Football above all sports can bring peace to this planet, 'cause in every corner of
the globe, people live and breathe the game.
Football is a peace maker, like no other sport!


Devraig


racism is not a football issue, it is a societal issue that can rear it's ugly head anywhere including football (evidently)..........so to tell Bryant Gumbel to forget about racism in the World's best game because it's a peacemaker is just creating a false pretence about another avenue through which racism creeps.......That kind of ignorance is what makes the problem escalate.........how can you openly boast of such backward thinking ?

You should think more carefully before you utter such garbage !!!!

Shame on you brother.
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: Filho on October 01, 2005, 05:17:40 PM
we looking at the content of the program in a very narrow way. everyone wants to think of it as anti-football and anti-european...and in turn some of us are unwittingly demonstrating your own anti-american (anti-white american) prejudices. racism comes from ignorance...so let us take the higher road and not respond with ignorance as well. look...I am not going to defend the US, or the US press...I have many negative and many positive things to say about race in America, and american propaganda. But that does not change the fact that racists in Europe are using football stadia to gain publicity and terrify minorities in a way we thought was all in the past. Think what you may about the American press but silence is the greater sin......stop shooting doen the messenger and try to figure out what to do with the message
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: Oz on October 02, 2005, 08:07:43 AM
Well said Filho.  Best post on this thread.
Title: Re: HBO real sports with Bryant Gumble.....Racism in football
Post by: AB.Trini on October 02, 2005, 10:06:13 AM
The issue of racism and how it is manifested and propogated through the media is at the heart of what we are seeing. Systemic barriers  are cultivated and we get absorbed in a system's way of thinking.
 Sometimes we need to step out and to confront the issue on different levels and in the multiple  ways in which it is manifested in our daily encounters. Sports  just happens to be one aspect  and one mode  by which elements of the issue is played out.
Title: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: saga pinto on October 12, 2005, 05:58:14 PM
Italy's racists make life hell for Ivory Coast's

Italy's racists make life hell for Ivory Coast's Zoro
October 12, 2005

ROME (AFP) - Despite promises by the Italian football authorities to clamp down on racism, Serie A defender Marc Zoro says he constantly suffers "deplorable" insults because of the colour of his skin.

"I have been playing in Italy for three years and I see this happening almost daily, particularly when I'm in the north or the centre of the country, playing against clubs like Lazio, Roma, Verona and Treviso," the 21-year-old, who plays for Sicilian side Messina, told AFP.

"It happens less in the south of Italy, but I have problems all the time. All this makes me really sad. It's not easy for me and it hurts. I don't deserve this."

ADVERTISEMENT
On the first day of this season, Messina played Lazio at Rome's Olympic stadium; Zoro, an Ivory Coast international, was subjected to monkey chants throughout the match.

His anger almost boiled over at the final whistle and he had to be restrained by his team-mates. Afterwards Lazio president Claudio Lotito went into the Messina dressing room to apologise on behalf of his club.

There was a similar outpouring of vitriol several weeks later when Messina visited Siena in Tuscany, where Zoro was roundly booed and jeered every time he touched the ball.

Asked whether initiatives like the European Week Against Racism in Sport - which runs from October 13 to 25 - could help eradicate the bigotry, Zoro said he thinks the issue runs too deep.

"It's a good thing, but the root of the problem is mentality; it's down to ignorance and a lack of sophistication.

"To shout racist insults and to throw things at the players is just savage behaviour. And sometimes it's even worse.

"(Ivory Coast born Lazio midfielder) Christian Manfredini is whistled by fans of his own club. If a fan loves his club, he can't have this kind of attitude."

Zoro was at a loss to explain why Italy has failed to deal with racism on the terraces, an offence which carries a possible jail sentence in England where the bigots have been driven away.

"It's deplorable that this happens in a country like Italy, which has one of the best football championships in the world and where football is so important," he said.

"It's clear that the international football community takes a very dim view of this, and my Messina teammates are very supportive.

"Once, in a match against Treviso, the whole team blackened their faces in a show of solidarity."

Last week Zoro's Ivory Coast team qualified for the World Cup for the very first time. Messina finished seventh in Serie A last season, their first campaign in the top division for almost 40 years.

Updated on Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 8:09 pm EDT


"If you have no confidence in self, you are twice defeated in the race of life. With confidence, you have won even before you have started" - Marcus Garvey

Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Savannah boy on October 12, 2005, 09:19:32 PM
Yuh remember de big uproar when ah sweet darkie win Miss Italy...when she went to Miss Universe, she blast her own people about racism when dey asked her a question.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Tenorsaw on October 12, 2005, 09:28:53 PM
And dem is the same people that get raped by the Moors.  They playing they ain't know they history.  As he said, in the South it is not as bad.  De moors run through Southern Italy, Spain and Portugal.  On a serious note though; it's a shame to see supporters making monkey chants at their own player.  It's truly regrettable, and the FIFA big wigs needs to seriously address this.  Start by fining clubs millions, not pennies, and let continued offences be me with home stadium bans, etc.  Let clubs feel it where it impacts them the most.  The slap on the wrist is obviously not working.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: truthseeker on October 12, 2005, 09:42:43 PM
Blatter does be in de news talking shit all de time, dis is what he should be addressing
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Filho on October 12, 2005, 09:55:59 PM
Blatter does be in de news talking shit all de time, dis is what he should be addressing

sorry bredda...but is not Blatter job to eradicate racism in the world. as far as I see FIFA doing real things and maybe they could do more, but there is a limit. Just becasue you seeing racism in the stadium it doh mean is a football problem...is a societal problem and you should be asking what the italian government and other italian and european human rights groups doing...doh jump on Blatter cause I do see FIFA addressing these problems...but dey need more support

And dem is the same people that get raped by the Moors. They playing they ain't know they history.
Wheeyyy....I doh think them historical 'facts' will make anybody less racist. If anything you giving dem a excuse
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: lizzard1910 on October 19, 2005, 12:13:21 AM
For those of you who don't know my favourite team F.C. St. Pauli (at present only 3rd division in germany, so I Would understand...)
Here is a short extract from their English homepage:

Parallel to the development of the St. Pauli district, which attracted increasing numbers of students, punks and artists, from the mid-eighties on an alternative fan scene came into being around the Millerntor, and for the first time the pirate flag was raised at the stadium. From this time on the skull and crossbones gave symbolic expression to the rebellious and pugnacious philosophy of the club and its fans.

This attitude paid dividends when the club once more earned promotion to the top division of the Bundesliga in 1988 – an event of mythic resonance. Remarkable contests were played out at the Millerntor home pitch against apparently invincible opponents. All the same, there was a constant concern for fair and civilised behaviour towards the opposing side. Incidentally, the St. Pauli football club was the first club to enshrine a ban on rightwing nationalist tendencies in its stadium rules right from the start.

SAY NO TO RACISM!! Forzza St. Pauli  8)
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Alsalman on October 19, 2005, 12:20:30 AM
I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...

I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction

P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...

RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!

also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic

-Sal from Bahrain
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: kounty on October 19, 2005, 12:28:45 AM
you feel ww2 just done adn the philosophy of racism dead with it?  Or slavery just done, so black people are not philosophically still on the same level as cattle? you believe the excuses of why the nclear bomb was dropped on japan and not germany?  nah brother, this is man's greatest challenge, and to close your eyes t it is just stupid
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: fishs on October 19, 2005, 01:55:52 AM
 WAR ON RACISM NOW.
UNTIL THE COLOR OF A MAN'S EYE IS OF NO MORE SIGNIFICANCE THAN THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN.
I SAY IS WAR.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Jayerson on October 19, 2005, 06:27:24 AM

P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...

-Sal from Bahrain

Generally true but as usual in an attempt to justify the enslavement of peoples of Black African origin, suggesting that a significant number of these 'conquerors' were Black Africans would not have lent itself to the justification of slavery at the time. So promoting the idea that it was a solely Arab/Semetic group that ran through Southern Italy and Iberia became the story promoted and accpeted widely when truth and fact it was far from actuality. Recent research of genetic markers from DNA analysis prove to the contrary popular held beliefs by the masses.

Also, being a person with muslim blood in my veins what thread on this forum did someone insult Muslims or Islam, I would like to read this thread myself.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Observer on October 19, 2005, 06:44:44 AM
WAR ON RACISM NOW.
UNTIL THE COLOR OF A MAN'S EYE IS OF NO MORE SIGNIFICANCE THAN THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN.
I SAY IS WAR.


Brother racism is not simply about skin colour. racism exist in all forms and fashions, look what happened in the former Yugoslavia. I once asked a Croatian if he could tell a Serbian by looking at him, he said no. Yet they killed eash other in the millions. Same with Rawanda, the same thing happened in China. Racism like politics, like religion is basically an excuse to dominate and seize power. I read Triniman comments about Mugabe and about T&T society (which was inaccurate at best). But I could not help but wonder if Triniman really believed that if their were no Syrians, Chinee, White or Indian and the businesses were own by peoples of African ethnicity, if they would have no one working for little pay, scrunting and ketchin their ass. The devisions of peoples is basically have and have nots and every place on earth their are more have nots than haves. And the haves will do anything to keep it that way.

Back to ball, I believe in general football more than any sport has drawn peoples together. the minority who bring their beliefs of racism to the game are simply that "a minority" But yuh know if you go Italy their is a divide between Nort and South, if you want to hear insults and comments of disgust you should be at a game like Napoli vs Milan lard!

Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: fishs on October 19, 2005, 06:47:25 AM
Nice one observer, but explain Spain vs England for me ? That wasn't a minority doing the monkey calls.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: superoli on October 19, 2005, 06:53:27 AM
anyone who thinks Italian football isnt racist is having a laugh, the ultra's are as racist as they come with their monkey chants and calling people n*gger. Other leagues might have racism but at least its kept out of the stadiums. I have been to Lazio games with swastika banners being flown and nothing was done and the same guys go back week after week. In england you would probably get a 5 year ban at minimum.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: JDB on October 19, 2005, 07:13:40 AM
I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...

And 95% percent of those chanting to ofend the player do not care that they are supporting the 5% who are hard core racists.

They have no love for the black man otherwise they would not commit what are DESPICABLE acts, so saying that is "blown out of proportion" is ridiculous.

Just as ridiculous as using the presence of black players on their teams as a defence. If the black OX (or employee/slave) is working for you, scoring goals and making your team better, you will tolerate him, maybe even love him.

But that does not mean that you are not racist because as soon as he falls out of favour or moves to a next team you will boo and chant.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: saga pinto on October 19, 2005, 07:27:52 AM
I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...

I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction

P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...

RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!

also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic

-Sal from Bahrain

Sal Let me remind you that trinidad & tobago if you don't know happens to be one of the most diverse countries in the world,we have a hindu and muslim population to be proud of for over 100 years so get off your high horse and try to understand the dynamics of the forum what you may deem as racist we call banter and as for understanding the people of bahrain we're getting a taste of your sensitivity to certain issues.This is by far the most I've heard of bahrain and bahrain have heard of us,so it's a learning curve for all intended,it's amazing how soccer can bring countries together it surely is the worlds greatest game.But not to stray from the topic I think wherever you live or what country you live in there's a degree of racism even I suspect in bahrain,so with that said give us the name of your website and chat room in bahrain with english translation and extend the same courtesy offered to bahrain by this forum.

                                                                                     Thank You
                                                                               It's a small World After All.....
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Alsalman on October 19, 2005, 12:55:07 PM
I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...

I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction

P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...

RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!

also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic

-Sal from Bahrain

Sal Let me remind you that trinidad & tobago if you don't know happens to be one of the most diverse countries in the world,we have a hindu and muslim population to be proud of for over 100 years so get off your high horse and try to understand the dynamics of the forum what you may deem as racist we call banter and as for understanding the people of bahrain we're getting a taste of your sensitivity to certain issues.This is by far the most I've heard of bahrain and bahrain have heard of us,so it's a learning curve for all intended,it's amazing how soccer can bring countries together it surely is the worlds greatest game.But not to stray from the topic I think wherever you live or what country you live in there's a degree of racism even I suspect in bahrain,so with that said give us the name of your website and chat room in bahrain with english translation and extend the same courtesy offered to bahrain by this forum.

                                                                                     Thank You
                                                                               It's a small World After All.....

You may call it banter, But i don't think insulting other people based on their culture, color, or religion is banter...

anyways, going back to the topic, most the fans in the stands are not racist, most of them do not participate or agree with such behaviours.... the problem is that the media (especially the british media) trys to make every body else look bad... I know people who go to Lazio home games, sit next to lazio ultra's and its normal... its not like people come in being racist ...

it is a personal attack on the player, it is wrong, but again it happens, like the gay chants Totti recieves during games for example ...

I agree with you its wrong... I am just saying, its not like these fans go around hating black people, its just that they hate their opponents.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Carib-Briton on October 19, 2005, 01:06:19 PM
I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...

I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction

P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...

RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!

also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic

-Sal from Bahrain
You chat crap oui. That is the biggest bull I have ever heard about the lazio fans ever since Lillan Thuram was at parma they give me abuse for supporting anti racism.  remember when they racially abused four of parma players so bad that they basically gave up. They couldnt take it no more. How do to explain lazio fans for hanging banners with nazi signs of openly?
Remember last season when di canio made that Nazi Salute? why did he do that? because he wanted to connect with his racist idiotic fans
Remember when Sinisa Mihajlovic racially abused patrick vieira in the champions league? and then when he went on the pitch to say sorry and try and stop lazio fans from being racist. What did the fans do, they booed him.
Any person who follow football hard knows that lazio is the MOST RACIST CLUB EVER. That club makes me sick.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: superoli on October 19, 2005, 01:42:43 PM
alasam I am sad to say your friends are not telling you the whole truth, have you actually been to a Lazio game ?
or even better are your friends black ? Try and go and stand next to the ultra if you black, lets see how long before the abuse starts.
Lazio are racist and the reason the english media blow it up is because they were punished in the past for crowd violence and yet they see these idiots doing it every week and the Italian FA do f**k all. Check out next time look at the Nazi salutes that isnt the mexican wave. I used to like Lazio but never again I have been to their games and will never go again. There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Carib-Briton on October 19, 2005, 03:30:06 PM
alasam I am sad to say your friends are not telling you the whole truth, have you actually been to a Lazio game ?
or even better are your friends black ? Try and go and stand next to the ultra if you black, lets see how long before the abuse starts.
Lazio are racist and the reason the english media blow it up is because they were punished in the past for crowd violence and yet they see these idiots doing it every week and the Italian FA do f**k all. Check out next time look at the Nazi salutes that isnt the mexican wave. I used to like Lazio but never again I have been to their games and will never go again. There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.

Steups Them Bastard you will put a black person in hospital after 5mins into the game
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: lizzard1910 on October 20, 2005, 12:16:28 AM
i've never been to a lazio match and i don't think i ever want to go. what i know from tv is more than enough.
why is nobody doing anything against it? why do the other fans not let them nazis know they are not wanted? why don't the players stand up and tell them they are a shame?
why does the club not forbid such banners and chantings and will not let people into the stadium any more after violating those rules?
why do the italian football association and uefa or fifa not punish the club real hard?
all this i can't understand.
with these type of fans, lazio has to be banned from all official matches!
things like that don't happen in other european leagues (i heard of bad incidents in croatia though, zagreb esp. - anybody knows more?) and if it happens, in Spain, England, Germany, France, where ever, people stand up against it, because RACISM IS CRIME NOT AN OPINION!  >:(
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Alsalman on October 20, 2005, 09:20:31 AM
alasam I am sad to say your friends are not telling you the whole truth, have you actually been to a Lazio game ?
or even better are your friends black ? Try and go and stand next to the ultra if you black, lets see how long before the abuse starts.
Lazio are racist and the reason the english media blow it up is because they were punished in the past for crowd violence and yet they see these idiots doing it every week and the Italian FA do f**k all. Check out next time look at the Nazi salutes that isnt the mexican wave. I used to like Lazio but never again I have been to their games and will never go again. There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.


we;ve had Arabs, as well as darker skinned individuals sit next to the ultra's on the Rome derby the biggest game for Roman teams ...

The abuse is overreported, a small faction does it... and suddenly people assume EVERY LAZIO FAN is racist... which is complete bullcrap. See Lazio are racist ... thats a joke ? Why not reporting Inter MIlan for racist abuse ? or the Real Madrid fans, or the Roma fans, or the Atletico fans... or the Milwall fans (who years back went on a riot fighting against every asian man in their area) ... Lazio is just put in the face of all this ...


You chat crap oui. That is the biggest bull I have ever heard about the lazio fans ever since Lillan Thuram was at parma they give me abuse for supporting anti racism.  remember when they racially abused four of parma players so bad that they basically gave up. They couldnt take it no more. How do to explain lazio fans for hanging banners with nazi signs of openly?
Remember last season when di canio made that Nazi Salute? why did he do that? because he wanted to connect with his racist idiotic fans
Remember when Sinisa Mihajlovic racially abused patrick vieira in the champions league? and then when he went on the pitch to say sorry and try and stop lazio fans from being racist. What did the fans do, they booed him.
Any person who follow football hard knows that lazio is the MOST RACIST CLUB EVER. That club makes me sick.

As for the DiCanio comment... there is a difference between the Roman salute, which existed since Roman times, and Nazi culture. It was a stupid gesture, given the associated meaning (people assumed he was nazi), but its a Roman salute... DiCanio is not a nazi... nor are lazio fans. I think you have no idea of soccer, nor have enough knowledge of Lazio (lazio fans are right wing, like Inter fans, like Hellas Verona fans, they put right wing signs all over to show that... the nazi sign I've seen and I've been pissed at, because its stupid... it makes us all look bad... but the reason for putting it is political, Fans in Italy are political... right wing VS communists VS Liberal.... they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). They racially abused 4 parma players, that is wrong... no one said its right... but to say that the fans and the club are racist is just a stupid comment, I guess living in england you learn that... you know every one makes mistakes but the english  :rotfl: As for the Miha comment... Miha is an idiot ... did you see him lick Mattarazi's ear... or when he kissed stankovic on the mouth when we were playing against Inter ? Ahahaha. Also when he went on the feild to stop Lazio fans from being racist ... that never happened.

Where were you and the biased english press when Dabo recieved a standing ovation even after he scored an own goal ? Where were you when Manfredini got cheered so hard, I was thinking (this guy sux, why the cheer) ...

It is normal to boo your opponents... to say that lazio fans are racist... is just dumb
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: superoli on October 20, 2005, 09:29:37 AM
have you been to these games ??
I have and its not overreported they have a large racist following and middle eastern looking is not black !
I dont have to argue with you I have been to these games and seen what goes on where clearly you havent or choose to not see it. yes it does exist at other clubs but nowhere as openly as at Lazio.
Ps Millwall had many convictions after the riots and they are now banned for life .............see the difference
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Alsalman on October 20, 2005, 09:32:50 AM
have you been to these games ??
I have and its not overreported they have a large racist following and middle eastern looking is not black !
I dont have to argue with you I have been to these games and seen what goes on where clearly you havent or choose to not see it. yes it does exist at other clubs but nowhere as openly as at Lazio.
Ps Millwall had many convictions after the riots and they are now banned for life .............see the difference

YOu've been to a lazio game ? I have freinds who have been there... I could not go last derby (ran out of cash  :'() I am saying is that it does exist... but not to the extent that is reported... most lazio fans are appalled by these actions... one should not overgeneralize... like the fellow above... suddenly all lazio fans, and the club itself is racist...

also its a dying group that commits these acts .... they have been dissapearing over the past years (thank God) and we're happy as lazio fans to get rid of them

Many fans have been fighting these groups on the stands (cause obviously the club says its helpless... it does not own the stadium, and the Italian FA claim to not know such things, then fine the club which is not responsible for a stadium it does not own) I know there were moments in the past years where groups were clashing with each other... but its good, cause if no one steps up... then people like that dude above(not superoli) will say "all lazio fans are racist" (meaning I'm suddenly racist too lol!)


I know there have been many stupid things in the past... but don't overgeneralize... its wrong to overgeneralize... most lazio fans are in no shape or way racist ... most lazio fans hate the fact they are labeled racist ...
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: kicker on October 20, 2005, 09:35:02 AM
have you been to these games ??
I have and its not overreported they have a large racist following and middle eastern looking is not black !
I dont have to argue with you I have been to these games and seen what goes on where clearly you havent or choose to not see it. yes it does exist at other clubs but nowhere as openly as at Lazio.
Ps Millwall had many convictions after the riots and they are now banned for life .............see the difference

You still can't generalize.....Lazio is famous for ultras (responsible for most open racism), but they are still considered an extremist group.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: superoli on October 20, 2005, 09:40:38 AM
How am I gerneralising ?
I am not saying all Lazio fans are racist, I used to go to to there games !
what I am saying they have the largest openly racist element of football team I have been to.
But what is worse is that Lazio FC are not doing anything about it !
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: greenpea on October 20, 2005, 09:51:31 AM
With all this racism talk one might be tempted to think that trinis are fighters first.... nothing could be further from the truth.... trinis are for the most part extremly cool characters able to put a party spin on anything..... ie. if you don't believe me check out WC2006.... carnival in Germany.....  :chilling:
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: kicker on October 20, 2005, 09:56:27 AM
How am I gerneralising ?
I am not saying all Lazio fans are racist, I used to go to to there games !



There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.


That is what you said earlier, and that is why it sounded like you were generalizing.........by "there supporters" I assume you mean "their supporters".....which implies that you were talking about all of their supporters...which is generalizing......

Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Pointman on October 20, 2005, 09:58:06 AM
I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...

I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction

P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...

RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!

also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic

-Sal from Bahrain

The Moors who under Hannibal invaded Italy were of both Black African and Arab groups. There was actually a definite distinction between the two groups.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: superoli on October 20, 2005, 10:00:23 AM
I can only say sorry I did not mean to imply that. English language is great huh !
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: kicker on October 20, 2005, 10:07:00 AM
yeah what one says and what one means is often different.......It's all good....... :beermug:
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Carib-Briton on October 20, 2005, 10:38:02 AM
As for the DiCanio comment... there is a difference between the Roman salute, which existed since Roman times, and Nazi culture. It was a stupid gesture, given the associated meaning (people assumed he was nazi), but its a Roman salute... DiCanio is not a nazi... nor are lazio fans. I think you have no idea of soccer, nor have enough knowledge of Lazio (lazio fans are right wing, like Inter fans, like Hellas Verona fans, they put right wing signs all over to show that... the nazi sign I've seen and I've been pissed at, because its stupid... it makes us all look bad... but the reason for putting it is political, Fans in Italy are political... right wing VS communists VS Liberal.... they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). They racially abused 4 parma players, that is wrong... no one said its right... but to say that the fans and the club are racist is just a stupid comment, I guess living in england you learn that... you know every one makes mistakes but the english  :rotfl: As for the Miha comment... Miha is an idiot ... did you see him lick Mattarazi's ear... or when he kissed stankovic on the mouth when we were playing against Inter ? Ahahaha. Also when he went on the feild to stop Lazio fans from being racist ... that never happened.

Where were you and the biased english press when Dabo recieved a standing ovation even after he scored an own goal ? Where were you when Manfredini got cheered so hard, I was thinking (this guy sux, why the cheer) ...

It is normal to boo your opponents... to say that lazio fans are racist... is just dumb

And where were you when Dabo got spat in the face in rome by his own fans? Does that one standing ovation hide the racist banners and racism that has happend previous and present.
Lazio has a strong racist background. accept it.Its so obvious theres no point debating it.

and who said english dont make mistakes? I never said that. Do I feel that,no. so dont put words in my mouth. You are stupid to say that because you dont know how it is to live as a black man in England for me to feel the english are allways right.

and I never said that lazio IS racist i say they are the MOST racist club

and that idiotic player did go on the field in a champions league game after the arsenal one to stop Lazio fans from being racist and he did sorry to vieira for his stupid behaviour

As for when you said this part they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). yes im sure thats the same reason why alot of them get nazi tattoos ::)
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Alsalman on October 20, 2005, 10:58:45 AM
I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...

I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction

P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...

RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!

also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic

-Sal from Bahrain

The Moors who under Hannibal invaded Italy were of both Black African and Arab groups. There was actually a definite distinction between the two groups.

There were definitly many of African origin, but even then it was mostly northern Africans, such as the berbers, and the ex Carthigians (pheonician)

there were definetly many darker skinned warriors who fought with their brothers and inhabited spain for 700 years  :beermug:
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Alsalman on October 20, 2005, 11:18:10 AM

And where were you when Dabo got spat in the face in rome by his own fans? Does that one standing ovation hide the racist banners and racism that has happend previous and present.
Lazio has a strong racist background. accept it.Its so obvious theres no point debating it.

and who said english dont make mistakes? I never said that. Do I feel that,no. so dont put words in my mouth. You are stupid to say that because you dont know how it is to live as a black man in England for me to feel the english are allways right.

and I never said that lazio IS racist i say they are the MOST racist club

and that idiotic player did go on the field in a champions league game after the arsenal one to stop Lazio fans from being racist and he did sorry to vieira for his stupid behaviour

As for when you said this part they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). yes im sure thats the same reason why alot of them get nazi tattoos ::)


Another dumb posts, that shows ignorance of the topic ... Dabo was never spat on by home fans, the lazio fans love dabo, and he loves the team... if anything Dabo is one of the reasons, why racist scum have been silenced on lazio stands ...

they love his fighting spirit, his drive, and will power, and there were banners last few games praising Dabo ...

if anyone got attacked by lazio fans its Liverani (who has a black mother) and the media claimed it was because he was black... I guess no one mentioned that he is a lazio player... and was seen (and even had his pictures in the news) celebrating Roma's scuddetto ... I mean these people hate each other ... and you as a player celebrate  your rivals season victory ... thats stupid !

Lazio does not have a racist background... again shows ignorance of the topic (what you're gonna say Mussolini used to be a lazio fan ? did you know that in reality mussolini fought against lazio? or did you know the reason why his party hated lazio was that they wanted to merge all Rome clubs to form one club (today that club is called Roma) the only team to refuse was Lazio... so they had them demoted for years and years)

Lazio are in no way the most racist club... they are not the most racist in Italy, and for sure not even top 20 in Europe... (see eastern European clubs ....)

As for lazio fans having Nazi tatoo's thats the biggest pile of crap I've heard ... what you went to rome... asked who was a lazio fan and started looking at the tatoo's they have ... Lazio fans are not nazi... some lazio ultra's are nationalists (the new name for what used to be the facist movement)... big difference (and the pro nationalist movement is a big political group running for office in Italy)... if anything they have tatoo's of eagles...

I mean you seem to have no idea what so ever... prolly been told Lazio are racist and b00m thats what you believe... always a shame when people just believe what ever crap they read or hear ...


I mean some parts of the western media (see fox) claim that muslims want to kill christians... and some people actually believe it ...

I'd just tell you ... get to know lazio fans... get to read into their history, get to know whats going on in the stands before just throwing around such claims... it shows you off in a bad light
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Carib-Briton on October 20, 2005, 12:01:27 PM

And where were you when Dabo got spat in the face in rome by his own fans? Does that one standing ovation hide the racist banners and racism that has happend previous and present.
Lazio has a strong racist background. accept it.Its so obvious theres no point debating it.

and who said english dont make mistakes? I never said that. Do I feel that,no. so dont put words in my mouth. You are stupid to say that because you dont know how it is to live as a black man in England for me to feel the english are allways right.

and I never said that lazio IS racist i say they are the MOST racist club

and that idiotic player did go on the field in a champions league game after the arsenal one to stop Lazio fans from being racist and he did sorry to vieira for his stupid behaviour

As for when you said this part they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). yes im sure thats the same reason why alot of them get nazi tattoos ::)


Another dumb posts, that shows ignorance of the topic ... Dabo was never spat on by home fans, the lazio fans love dabo, and he loves the team... if anything Dabo is one of the reasons, why racist scum have been silenced on lazio stands ...

they love his fighting spirit, his drive, and will power, and there were banners last few games praising Dabo ...

if anyone got attacked by lazio fans its Liverani (who has a black mother) and the media claimed it was because he was black... I guess no one mentioned that he is a lazio player... and was seen (and even had his pictures in the news) celebrating Roma's scuddetto ... I mean these people hate each other ... and you as a player celebrate  your rivals season victory ... thats stupid !

Lazio does not have a racist background... again shows ignorance of the topic (what you're gonna say Mussolini used to be a lazio fan ? did you know that in reality mussolini fought against lazio? or did you know the reason why his party hated lazio was that they wanted to merge all Rome clubs to form one club (today that club is called Roma) the only team to refuse was Lazio... so they had them demoted for years and years)

Lazio are in no way the most racist club... they are not the most racist in Italy, and for sure not even top 20 in Europe... (see eastern European clubs ....)

As for lazio fans having Nazi tatoo's thats the biggest pile of crap I've heard ... what you went to rome... asked who was a lazio fan and started looking at the tatoo's they have ... Lazio fans are not nazi... some lazio ultra's are nationalists (the new name for what used to be the facist movement)... big difference (and the pro nationalist movement is a big political group running for office in Italy)... if anything they have tatoo's of eagles...

I mean you seem to have no idea what so ever... prolly been told Lazio are racist and b00m thats what you believe... always a shame when people just believe what ever crap they read or hear ...


I mean some parts of the western media (see fox) claim that muslims want to kill christians... and some people actually believe it ...

I'd just tell you ... get to know lazio fans... get to read into their history, get to know whats going on in the stands before just throwing around such claims... it shows you off in a bad light

Was what you said about the english part was right? and I told you it wasnt right. but yet still you believe it.That was rude. Suit your self. I havent got my info from just hearing people so you should be quiet on those things and not assume.
As you say everyone is not racist(which I never said everyone is) not all lazio fans love dabo(read the words first before you jump to conclusions) and for some for those fans it because of his skin colour. I have met lazio fans in london and MOST of them admit there is a LARGE(Read my words first, i didnt say all) amount of fans that are racist. also I DONT CARE if it shows me off in a bad light because your making allover conclusions about a person on the internet which is stupid and refer what people know as dumb.I havent said anything about you even though you deine the most obvious things.
Were talking about Lazio which isnt even a good team anymore and doesnt have alot of interest for godness sake.
As for the nazi tattoos they have been caputed on TV when Lazio were in the in UCL last time on 3 occasions they have also been captured at real madrid twice(Im just saying what i saw dont jump to conclusions and make it into another arguement(thats blatant for example If someone calls you a racist name you dont need to read up on them to know if they are really racist)
We'll agree to disagree but if you dont believe Lazio is well known ELITE TEAM(im not talking about a team in the romania division 2 for goodness sake thats known for racist behaviour) for having a noticeable amount of racist fans your lying to yourself.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: ricky on October 20, 2005, 12:12:37 PM
Quote
As for the nazi tattoos they have been caputed on TV when Lazio were in the in UCL last time on 3 occasions they have also been captured at real madrid twice

Quote



I have read the Italy keeper  Buffon has a nazi tattoo on his body.  I cant remember where i read it so i dont know how valid it is

Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: ribbit on October 20, 2005, 01:03:40 PM
Lazio are in no way the most racist club... they are not the most racist in Italy, and for sure not even top 20 in Europe... (see eastern European clubs ....)

yeah, some of the eastern european clubs are just as bad. but using terms like "most" and "top 20" is, i think, missing the point. racism is not a competition.

there are alot of targets for blame - the clubs for not doing more to identify the racists, the supporters who show up and sit next to the racists but do nothing (passive support) and the racists themselves. don't think yuh solving this one anytime soon....
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: TrinInfinite on October 20, 2005, 01:35:34 PM
dats true, there should be stadium rules dat kick our fellas who taunt, chant and make racist remarks and di should be clamped down by fifa
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: ricky on October 20, 2005, 03:34:02 PM
Quote
As for the nazi tattoos they have been caputed on TV when Lazio were in the in UCL last time on 3 occasions they have also been captured at real madrid twice

Quote



I have read the Italy keeper  Buffon has a nazi tattoo on his body.  I cant remember where i read it so i dont know how valid it is




I was just on a buffon website     http://www.buffononline.com     which had this line
"Gigi often spends time visiting and helping less fortunate people in Africa, he claims his money and status will never change him from the person he has always been. "
so my above statement is probably false 

It also stated his idol growing up was N'kono of Cameroon
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: JDB on October 20, 2005, 03:44:44 PM
yeah, some of the eastern european clubs are just as bad. but using terms like "most" and "top 20" is, i think, missing the point. racism is not a competition.

there are alot of targets for blame - the clubs for not doing more to identify the racists, the supporters who show up and sit next to the racists but do nothing (passive support) and the racists themselves. don't think yuh solving this one anytime soon....


Yuh hit the nail right on th ehead there ribbit.

Sal is missing the point completely. Just the fact that he is bending over backwards to explain, excuse and favourably compare the situation at Lazio to other clubs means that they will keep saying that it is a small problem and ignore it.

It will never be dealt with as long as sensible fans continue to turn a blind eye to it.
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: Alsalman on October 20, 2005, 07:59:32 PM
yeah, some of the eastern european clubs are just as bad. but using terms like "most" and "top 20" is, i think, missing the point. racism is not a competition.

there are alot of targets for blame - the clubs for not doing more to identify the racists, the supporters who show up and sit next to the racists but do nothing (passive support) and the racists themselves. don't think yuh solving this one anytime soon....


Yuh hit the nail right on th ehead there ribbit.

Sal is missing the point completely. Just the fact that he is bending over backwards to explain, excuse and favourably compare the situation at Lazio to other clubs means that they will keep saying that it is a small problem and ignore it.

It will never be dealt with as long as sensible fans continue to turn a blind eye to it.


No body is ignoring it my freind... and I am not missing the point... I did say its wrong, I did say it does not belong on the football feild.

Point is... its hard to prevent, the stadiums in Italy are not owned by the teams (they do not police it), and you have games that draw about 80.000+ people ... how do you know which one is a racist or which one is not ?

its not like they have 10-15 thousand to control... they have 80,000 out of which perhaps 500-1000 are monkey racist scum ... you can speak against it... you can start booing and insulting your own fans (which is what happened to lazio fans when abuse against Zoro, who has the coolest name lol, started) ... all you can do is fine a club ... that is already trying to control the situation... and these guys who do it could care less about the club... they are there to pick fights, start riots, and political reasons...

so its the real fans and the club that gets punished, never the racists
Title: Re: Racism shows it's ugly face/but words won't kill me, it makes me stronger.
Post by: lizzard1910 on October 21, 2005, 12:35:14 AM
No body is ignoring it my freind... and I am not missing the point... I did say its wrong, I did say it does not belong on the football feild.

Point is... its hard to prevent, the stadiums in Italy are not owned by the teams (they do not police it), and you have games that draw about 80.000+ people ... how do you know which one is a racist or which one is not ?

its not like they have 10-15 thousand to control... they have 80,000 out of which perhaps 500-1000 are monkey racist scum ... you can speak against it... you can start booing and insulting your own fans (which is what happened to lazio fans when abuse against Zoro, who has the coolest name lol, started) ... all you can do is fine a club ... that is already trying to control the situation... and these guys who do it could care less about the club... they are there to pick fights, start riots, and political reasons...

so its the real fans and the club that gets punished, never the racists

of course you can find out the racists. maybe not before the match, but during the match. even in the division three matches in germany i go to, i have police cameras right in front of me sometimes. if somebody is throwing his beer cup on the field, police or club officials will go into the stands and get the guy after having identified him. he will get no permission to visit further matches for the rest of the season or even longer for a minor offense....
you can get those nazi-idiots!!!

what we are all missing here are clear statements and in the first place action to solve the nazi problem at lazio. it seems it's at least tolerated, certainly not there is no fight against it.  :(
Title: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: WeStrong06 on November 18, 2005, 10:15:46 AM
Pele proud of black players' success

DOHA, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Pele said on Friday his biggest contribution to soccer was not confined to the field but in also helping to enable black players attain the status they have today.

Pele, who was 65 last month and remains unsurpassed as the world's greatest player, was speaking at a news conference after the opening of the new Aspire Academy sports dome, the largest of its kind in the world.

He recalled: "As a 17-year-old at the 1958 World Cup in Sweden I noticed that only my team, Brazil, had black players. I was watching teams like France and Sweden training nearby and they all had white players.

"But today, I can see black players in all these national teams and I believe I have contributed a lot to bringing about this change."

He added: "Football is a great game, it brings together people of different hues. It's a family, but my contribution is also social. FIFA has more affiliates than UNESCO and I feel proud to be part of it."

Pele denounced violence and racism in the sport although he felt there were few places where racism still existed in soccer.

He said: "I know in some places in Italy there are some problems. But FIFA is doing its best and I am sure they will continue to take strong measures to wipe this out."

Looking ahead to next year's World Cup finals in Germany, he said Brazil were favourites to win for the sixth time even though most of the team play for different clubs in Europe and assemble only a few days before the tournament.

"But they are easily the best," said Pele. "They have two good players ready for each position."
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Pointman on November 19, 2005, 11:53:38 AM
Brazil may very well win this cup again...if they can get pass my soca warriors ;D
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: capodetutticapi on November 19, 2005, 12:21:06 PM
anybody remember the movie victory with stallone pele ardiles and moore.somebody ask pele in de movie where he learn his football.his answer was TRINIDAD.EVEN PELE WANT TO B AH SOCA WARRIOR :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Alsalman on November 19, 2005, 12:33:21 PM
I think Maradona is better than Pele...

whats more classifying players as white, and black etc... defeats the purpose ...

I could care less if a player on my team or national team is black, white, yellow, orange, purple or what ever ...

we are all human, and equal under God  :)
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Pointman on November 19, 2005, 12:39:50 PM
I think Maradona is better than Pele...

whats more classifying players as white, and black etc... defeats the purpose ...

I could care less if a player on my team or national team is black, white, yellow, orange, purple or what ever ...

we are all human, and equal under God  :)

That is true , we are all human and equal in the eyes of God but many humans tend to believe that Black people are less than such. BTW Maradona could never be better than Pele, never in a thousand years.
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: cm103 on November 19, 2005, 12:41:18 PM
I think Maradona is better than Pele...

whats more classifying players as white, and black etc... defeats the purpose ...

I could care less if a player on my team or national team is black, white, yellow, orange, purple or what ever ...

we are all human, and equal under God  :)

Ah hear yuh Alsalman....it doh matter for me what color anyone is...living in d US you see people want equality but seperate a lot based on color. I all for maintaining yuh heritage and history but combine it, is one world. I doh expect everybody to agree with this one but is how i see it.

Maradona was a great player but sour heself in my eyes when he start diving and that "Hand of God" BS that throw out meh dark horse favorites England. Dat man go be remembered for changind d rules and having players getting booked for faking and for he crackhead behavior. A boss player never d less but Pele was d best. Lewwe hope John break dat scoring record so I could coast it on meh Brazilian partners head.
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Alsalman on November 19, 2005, 12:50:53 PM
I think its pathetic that people think that Black people are less human than whites ... they also try to paint Jesus as a blond white man to support that argument.(lol Jesus is the semitic cousin of mine! he has a tan, and is not blond) 

I think the problem lies in the human need to dehumanize others for the sake of believing that they are the "moral right"

I am glad one of the first thing Prophit Muhamed and Islam did was to say there is no difference between humans. Infact many of the early muslims were people of Black decent, who were liberated by the fact that Islam considers them equal.

The first public Muaadin (the one who performs call to prayer) was Bilal (a black man) who became one of the closest companions of the prophit, and one of the highest regarded Islamic figures.

Racism should not be tolerated... it goes against God, it goes against morality, and its just a tool to oppress others for personal gain.

As for the Maradona Pele argument ... its a never ending one  ;D

Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Pointman on November 19, 2005, 01:03:04 PM
I think its pathetic that people think that Black people are less human than whites ... they also try to paint Jesus as a blond white man to support that argument.(lol Jesus is the semitic cousin of mine! he has a tan, and is not blond) 

I think the problem lies in the human need to dehumanize others for the sake of believing that they are the "moral right"

I am glad one of the first thing Prophit Muhamed and Islam did was to say there is no difference between humans. Infact many of the early muslims were people of Black decent, who were liberated by the fact that Islam considers them equal.

The first public Muaadin (the one who performs call to prayer) was Bilal (a black man) who became one of the closest companions of the prophit, and one of the highest regarded Islamic figures.

Racism should not be tolerated... it goes against God, it goes against morality, and its just a tool to oppress others for personal gain.

As for the Maradona Pele argument ... its a never ending one  ;D




Yeah the Pele/ Maradona debate is never ending, but I often wonder what the Maradona backers use to make such a claim. It can't be statistics, and if not, what is it?
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: TriniCana on November 19, 2005, 01:50:23 PM
I think its pathetic that people think that Black people are less human than whites ... they also try to paint Jesus as a blond white man to support that argument.(lol Jesus is the semitic cousin of mine! he has a tan, and is not blond) 

I think the problem lies in the human need to dehumanize others for the sake of believing that they are the "moral right"

I am glad one of the first thing Prophit Muhamed and Islam did was to say there is no difference between humans. Infact many of the early muslims were people of Black decent, who were liberated by the fact that Islam considers them equal.

The first public Muaadin (the one who performs call to prayer) was Bilal (a black man) who became one of the closest companions of the prophit, and one of the highest regarded Islamic figures.

Racism should not be tolerated... it goes against God, it goes against morality, and its just a tool to oppress others for personal gain.

As for the Maradona Pele argument ... its a never ending one  ;D



aye wait...le we get serious here.....God is ah female full stop
Parents from trinidad, but she like roaming de streets ah de world in other words she foot hot.  Last Wednesday she was in Bahrain watching de game....well we know de outcome ah that  :-*

Plus she hair ain't blonde it in small canerow.

Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Redbelt on November 19, 2005, 02:05:16 PM
there was a guy here pretending to support us, and he was talking all kinds of shit about black folk, he really got me angry.
Can't beleive that in this day and age, there are still people with such stupid racist ideas.
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Grande on November 19, 2005, 02:05:59 PM
Pele and Maradona in two separate leagues of their own - although Pele name will remain immortal.

The thing bout Maradona, skill aside, is how he let himself and his life slide after 1990, looking at him today no one would guess (if they never heard of him) that he was a professional athlete that led Argentina to World Cup triumph.
For his age, Pele still keepin fit, has the same humility and easygoing-ness that characterizes a lot of Brazilian players (except Romario, haha). When he touches a football, to this day...yuh does still see flashes of unique brilliance.
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Pointman on November 19, 2005, 02:12:47 PM
there was a guy here pretending to support us, and he was talking all kinds of shit about black folk, he really got me angry.
Can't beleive that in this day and age, there are still people with such stupid racist ideas.

Let's face it, we still live in a very racist world and it permeates EVERY aspect of it. Why do you think young Arabs and Africans are burning France...racism.
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: triniairman on November 19, 2005, 02:16:08 PM
pele and maradona is two of the  best players of all time but one of them f up and started taking drugs setting a bad example on younger talent coming up and the other one is still inspiring players off the field so pele is a better footballer on or off the field right now
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: canadiantrini on November 19, 2005, 02:37:09 PM
pele have more class, and respect for himself, but maradonna is still one of dey greatest.  maradonna make a bad name fuh heself. pele reigns as football king not only for who he is now, but for al that he has done in the past.
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: Alsalman on November 20, 2005, 12:10:36 AM
pele and maradona is two of the  best players of all time but one of them f up and started taking drugs setting a bad example on younger talent coming up and the other one is still inspiring players off the field so pele is a better footballer on or off the field right now

yea then you have that idiot LePenn comming and saying that Immigrants even if french civizens should be deported back home ... and people back him ... talk about Idiots ...

Zidane = Algerian

Thuram, Henry, Vieira all are immigrants and they are the ones who brought france victory

as for Maradona he does not beat Pele's stats but you know that stats are not every thing ...

Iran's Ali Daei is the highest goal scorer for national team ever ... does not make him the best ever... I think why many people favor Maradona is due to the fact that most of us actually watched him play during our live times and live  ;D

also

(http://www.alkhaleej.ae/dak/images/2005/11/20/sp-13.jpg)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: pthandi on November 20, 2005, 12:56:54 AM
Pele is not as big as he used to be

He's hard to find on the Internet or on Television

Why is that ???

Title: Re: Pele proud of black players' success
Post by: morvant on November 20, 2005, 12:59:29 AM
Pele is not as big as he used to be

He's hard to find on the Internet or on Television

Why is that ???



u serious? hard to find on the internet :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

what that had to do with anything??

he just do ah sierra mist commercial with freddy adu and was skillsing it
Title: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: truthseeker on November 29, 2005, 04:01:31 PM
THINGS GETTING REAL BAD FOR BLACK PLAYERS IN ITALY..

Mighty Zoro leaves his mark
By James Richardson


The brave stand of one Messina player against Internazionale fans has made all of Italy sit up and acknowledge the problem of stadium racism.

So bad they're good - that's Inter's fans. Last season the barrage of missiles and flares they aimed at Milan goalkeeper Nelson Dida, securing the Champions League crowd ban they've just finished serving, provoked a far-reaching reform of stadium security in Italy. Now, hopefully, their treatment of Messina's Marc Zoro might have the same effect on Italy's attempts to tackle stadium racism.
For anyone who doesn't know the story, a quick recap: Sunday afternoon's match between Messina and Internazionale was marred by monkey chants and other racist abuse aimed at the Ivory Coast defender by sections of the away support. A quarter of an hour into the second half, Zoro decided he'd had enough, picked up the ball and approached the referee to request that the game be suspended.

There followed the curious scene of Inter's Brazilian striker Adriano desperately trying to drag Zoro back by the shirt to stop him reaching the official. When these attempts failed, the subsequent sideline conference between the referee and Zoro was interrupted by Adriano and two other Inter players, Obafemi Martins and Marco Materazzi, who convinced Zoro to play on.
"They were very kind" said Marc afterwards. "Martins and Adriano both said that this kind of thing happens to them a lot too, and not to let it provoke me. But they seemed more concerned with getting the game restarted and avoiding any complications than anything else. I came back on to avoid causing them problems." The final whistle saw Zoro's story flash all over Italy. Gestures of solidarity came thick and fast, the most curious of which saw Sunday night's big football show on state television, La Domenica Sportiva, broadcasting its opening minutes in black and white.

The league, bless, has announced a five-minute delay to all this weekend's kick-offs, to allow players to protest against racism. It should go without saying that none of that will make much difference - they often kick off late anyway. Still, the volume and intensity of the reaction to Zoro's brave gesture suggests that, for once, the abuse won't end up being swept under Serie A's already bulging carpet. This kind of nonsense is nothing new and has been going on at Italian grounds for decades. Back in the 1980's it was regional racism, with the southern fans, in particular Neapolitans, the subject of choruses anywhere north of Rome ("Smell that stink, even the dogs are running. It must be the Neapolitans coming").

The league does little to counter it. So far this season, four similar cases have been met with fines. Last season, Serie B side Verona did receive a stadium ban for racist abuse of a Perugia player, but such unpleasantness is generally dismissed as an unpleasant fact of stadium life.

It's comical to think that, of the two occasions I can recall a referee actually halting play in Italy for crowd abuse, both were for banners insulting a senior league bigwig. By contrast, racist, anti-semitic banners - including the jolly Swastika some Lazio fan was waving at Empoli this Sunday - are greeted with cheery indifference.

Zoro's brave gesture may change that, having upped the ante and forced the authorities to take seriously the idea of suspending matches due to racism. It may well have opened a few player's minds too - if there is a next time, perhaps we won't see just one player walking with the others attempting to drag him back.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: FF on November 29, 2005, 04:16:47 PM
Things "getting" bad.... come now truthseeker... this has been going on for years... they just used to sweep it under de carpet
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: fari on November 29, 2005, 04:28:13 PM
i read this article over the wknd and said hmph.   today whole day i wanted to start this thread but i didn't want to start no comess.  but now i have to say meh piece:


what will we do if our players are on the receiving end of this nonsense next year??
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: FLi ! on November 29, 2005, 04:47:44 PM
hardly likely in such an environment where ur likely at any given game to have a mixture of thousands of different creeds from all over the world.

That's not to say small pockets might not try such antics, but i think hardly likely....
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: NYtriniwhiteboy.. on November 29, 2005, 05:21:19 PM
Italy really dont seem to be gettin no better...it really disgusting. the league needs to be more strict and not accepting of this behaviour
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: JDB on November 29, 2005, 05:35:42 PM
i read this article over the wknd and said hmph. today whole day i wanted to start this thread but i didn't want to start no comess. but now i have to say meh piece:

what will we do if our players are on the receiving end of this nonsense next year??

The same thing everybody else does do... protest. There really is nothing else that you can do until people are forced to stop their assinine behaviour.

Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Jimmy the Dog on November 29, 2005, 05:42:46 PM
Hey you warriors we do not allow this shit at the Vale...........a life ban........look at your love of ME MUM, the only white boy in the side and he has told us he has the biggest ding a ling ............but honestly English fans are genually anti-racist..........Where i live in Spain they worst than the Italians
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: richpy on November 29, 2005, 05:57:53 PM
We could say what we want about the English League, if is one thing, them FA offcials does punish man, team, and supporters for anything off-key, especially anything resembling racism. Italy and, more recently Spain, seem to not want to deal with this kind of thing, which reflects badly on their society. Imagine team getting fined a few hundred Euros in Spain for monkey chants at men like E'too. That is insulting! One team even had the balls to say the Spanish League thiefing them while not doing anything about their racist supporters. I read sometime that not all supporters are racist and that they simply see it as heckling any player, and I think this is how the authorities looking at it. Real disgusting stuff in his day and age. America does have they racial problems, but yuh doh see it in sports. Some a these European countries have no shame.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Pointman on November 29, 2005, 06:06:18 PM
Hey you warriors we do not allow this shit at the Vale...........a life ban........look at your love of ME MUM, the only white boy in the side and he has told us he has the biggest ding a ling ............but honestly English fans are genually anti-racist..........Where i live in Spain they worst than the Italians

that's why can't stand those other European leagues...long live the EPL!!
That's what they need to institute in the rest of Europe...LIFETIME BAN.

Man U forever!!!
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: grimm01 on November 29, 2005, 06:07:29 PM
this thing going on for years in Itlay and Spain.

allyuh see the Real Sport with Brian Gumbel on HBO a couple months back when he highlight the racism issue  in football and was talking to Thiery Henry. he end the segment with a white man from UEFA i believe. the man give the usual spin about their approach to racism and then Gumbel hit him with a questions, he ask him if they could really get a handle on the racism issue when all the directors are old white men and the ruling body doh even have diversity representation on the board. the man get stupid wit that one.

Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: FLi ! on November 29, 2005, 06:49:38 PM
We could say what we want about the English League, if is one thing, them FA offcials does punish man, team, and supporters for anything off-key, especially anything resembling racism.

It wasn't always like this though..england today is a reaction to racism in the terraces decades ago...as they have undergone a ideological revolution, so too will europe with the help of the rest of the world, but let's not act like it was non existent in england previously.

There are still some who remain...case in point the abuse dwight was subjected to when blackburn played birmingham last year... :-\
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Jimmy the Dog on November 29, 2005, 06:57:25 PM
Yes but be realistic Dwight was abused by 2 nobheads in 28.000 crowd and will not go there again Banned for life.........England is cleaning up its act ...........BOYS credit were it due
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: FLi ! on November 29, 2005, 07:03:02 PM
yea, it's largely been stamped out, but my pt was not to deny that it did exist at one pt as it does right now in europe......
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Disgruntled_Trini on November 29, 2005, 07:18:03 PM
If is one thing I glad for is that them thing for the most part doh exist in Trinidad especially in sport.

Birchall is ah man come and fit in normal normal on ah predominantly black team.

I cyah 4king stand racism dread and this is something that does go on all the time. What does get meh even more irate is the level of dotishness with them fans. You belittling a player for being black but yuh 2 biggest guns up top black. So much so one from Africa and he black no ass and the next one from Brasil. Why yuh doh be racial towards them to. That is jes stupid dread. I think is that they cyah find fault with the man  he playing good. he eh spitting on nobody and doing ah set ah shit in the public eye so bess we call him nigga.

(http://www.wldcup.com/pictures/2005_11/40754_33332_1.jpg)

Lazio supporters display a huge racist banner at Rome's Olympic Stadium in April 2001.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Jimmy the Dog on November 29, 2005, 07:45:03 PM
Well disgruntled you make a valid point and in Trini case you in Birchie The biggest ding a ling in the Trini squad.............only white boy.........and as you and numerous people say................no problem.........this has got to be good for rascism on a local and world wide front as the press will make a fuss over.........typical storyline.....low league player do good in WC side. This boy in months now knows his roots are with Trini and no problem with the Black or White Issue is proud to be a Trini............AND according to our feed back here in England ............ME MUM is
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Disgruntled_Trini on November 29, 2005, 07:51:56 PM
but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit

After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that

football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism

what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: kicker on November 29, 2005, 08:22:40 PM
My 2 cents

1. Racism is not a football issue. It's a societal issue....

2. Football matches just provide a public forum for expressing racial feelings, thoughts etc......

3. You can't stop racism by censoring people's words and feelings. Taking down banners and fining clubs for racial slurs and abuse might hide some of it, and prevent some players from being offended or being uncomfortable......but it's just putting a band-aid on a cancer.

4. It's neither FIFA's duty nor the football club's duty to stop racism. They can only do their best to foster an environment of professionalism in which everyone is treated fairly and feels comfortable.....In the real world that we live in without censorhip, it is very difficult.

5. The only real power that FIFA, football bodies, and clubs have in fighting racism directly is by implementing inclusive and non-discriminatory practices in employment and governance (something which I think almost every corporation in this day and age does).......

6. Racism should not offend only minority players...it should offend all players......In fact I believe a more powerful message would be sent if a white player/white players in Europe were to actively rebel against racism. Sure minority players are affected, but when when a significant number of white  players start expressing their distaste for racism as well.......then the football fraternity would seem more unified.....and it won't just be the usual case of the "oppressed" player complaining.

7. At the end of the day, the players just need to keep playing. Minority players need to stay strong, keep playing, perform well & be role models. Touching moments like Zoro's are good for the story books but unfortunately may not change much.......As a minority in a racist environment, the only power you have is to gain respect is through the content of your character and excellence in your profession......

8. Globalization, education, tolerance and a gradual acceptance of diversity are part of the very very very very slow societal evolution process that will end racism..........until then the players just need to keep playing.......
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Jumbie on November 29, 2005, 08:38:53 PM
My 2 cents

1. Racism is not a football issue. It's a societal issue....

2. Football matches just provide a public forum for expressing racial feelings, thoughts etc......

3. You can't stop racism by censoring people's words and feelings. Taking down banners and fining clubs for racial slurs and abuse might hide some of it, and prevent some players from being offended or being uncomfortable......but it's just putting a band-aid on a cancer.

4. It's neither FIFA's duty nor the football club's duty to stop racism. They can only do their best to foster an environment of professionalism in which everyone is treated fairly and feels comfortable.....In the real world that we live in without censorhip, it is very difficult.

5. The only real power that FIFA, football bodies, and clubs have in fighting racism directly is by implementing inclusive and non-discriminatory practices in employment and governance (something which I think almost every corporation in this day and age does).......

6. Racism should not offend only minority players...it should offend all players......In fact I believe a more powerful message would be sent if a white player/white players in Europe were to actively rebel against racism. Sure minority players are affected, but when when a significant number of white  players start expressing their distaste for racism as well.......then the football fraternity would seem more unified.....and it won't just be the usual case of the "oppressed" player complaining.

7. At the end of the day, the players just need to keep playing. Minority players need to stay strong, keep playing, perform well & be role models. Touching moments like Zoro's are good for the story books but unfortunately may not change much.......As a minority in a racist environment, the only power you have is to gain respect is through the content of your character and excellence in your profession......

8. Globalization, education, tolerance and a gradual acceptance of diversity are part of the very very very very slow societal evolution process that will end racism..........until then the players just need to keep playing.......

# 6 is a boss point. They have to say enough is enough..lead the way.

Must be very hard on non white players though..

Maybe it's time to start taking away the forum these fools abuse. Close door matches..and maybe, the man who normally stands next to them while they are chanting or whatever will finally say..listen..this is not good for the game...because of you, we will all have to suffer and not see the games we want...
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Disgruntled_Trini on November 29, 2005, 09:00:48 PM
I remember some years ago Ginola get in ah fight with ah man cause he say something racist to ah member of he team.

Kicker I understand what yuh saying and yuh making sense. but this is the game we love and we cyah have ah handfull ah ass spoling it for everybody. Yeah is ah social issue and even that I think FIFA could start some grassroots programs in them same troubled spots and try and root out the racism but that may just be wishfull thinking.

FIFA and UEFA need to get tougher on this shit dread. If you could ban Inter for 4 games because they was pelting flares then they could ban the sdie for 4 games for racial abuse. Cause in this case sticks and stones may break your bones and racial abuse does hurt to.

Not to mention the 2010 world cup going and be in Afica aplace that is infamous for racism. I think FIFA should really do something between now and then to stamp it out on ah global scale.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: kicker on November 29, 2005, 09:18:51 PM
I remember some years ago Ginola get in ah fight with ah man cause he say something racist to ah member of he team.

Kicker I understand what yuh saying and yuh making sense. but this is the game we love and we cyah have ah handfull ah ass spoling it for everybody. Yeah is ah social issue and even that I think FIFA could start some grassroots programs in them same troubled spots and try and root out the racism but that may just be wishfull thinking.

FIFA and UEFA need to get tougher on this shit dread. If you could ban Inter for 4 games because they was pelting flares then they could ban the sdie for 4 games for racial abuse. Cause in this case sticks and stones may break your bones and racial abuse does hurt to.

Not to mention the 2010 world cup going and be in Afica aplace that is infamous for racism. I think FIFA should really do something between now and then to stamp it out on ah global scale.

Yeah well FIFA can probably do more to try to clamp racism out of the stadia......but I'm just not sure how effective that would be in light of the bigger problem............

What FIFA is doing or can do at the grassroots level can help (that's why I used the "directly" in point 5)....but even that.......not sure how effective it would be globally.

It's just a really difficult situation, and I think it would be almost unfair to put the sole onus on FIFA to deal with a situation that is neither exclusive to nor caused by the sport. Football by itself has built bridges and fostered a certain degree of racial unity across the globe..........Individuals and maybe other organizations need to step up and take some social responsibility for a problem that just happens to fall in Football's back yard...

my opinion
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Jah Gol on November 29, 2005, 10:01:09 PM
The nature of the game is emotional and things happen and one may react in a way on the field or in the stands that they may not react outside of that environment. Racism will never go away any particularly among white Europeans and I accept that but the abuse is just plain obscenely wrong and FIFA and UEFA and domestic authories can do something about it.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Tenorsaw on November 30, 2005, 12:34:44 PM
but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit

After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that

football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism

what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race

Disgruntled hit the nail right on de head.  FIFA need to impose heavier fines on the teams whose fans are guilty of this.  Further, they should start ducking points from teams that do that.  When it starts to hurt where it matters most, then clubs will start to take more draconian measures to stamp out such bigotry.  Ah feel good when that Blackburn fan was charged and fined for taunting Yorke.  The English league leading the way, in terms of not allowing such ignorance to ruin the world's game.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Behbehman on November 30, 2005, 03:35:56 PM
this thing going on for years in Itlay and Spain.

allyuh see the Real Sport with Brian Gumbel on HBO a couple months back when he highlight the racism issue  in football and was talking to Thiery Henry. he end the segment with a white man from UEFA i believe. the man give the usual spin about their approach to racism and then Gumbel hit him with a questions, he ask him if they could really get a handle on the racism issue when all the directors are old white men and the ruling body doh even have diversity representation on the board. the man get stupid wit that one.



So wuh allyuh tink cause Latin America & the Caribbean to be so?  Yuh tink "whitey" go give black man ah break jus so?  Nah happen sah.  Dem people from the Iberian Peninsula were always racist pigs...Shadow was right, Columbus lie! They will never learn, buh black man mus keep on jammin!  In Brazil dey have over 240 gradations of color...and if yuh black yuh always at the bottom...yuh tink the KKK eh living in Italy and Spain too? Is Europe dey come from.  I really embarassed for people without pigmentation in dey skin :-[
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Marcos on November 30, 2005, 04:01:53 PM
Kicker I agree with your thoughts about racism being outside of FIFA's scope.
However, what takes place on the field and in the stadium does fall within their realm.
While they may be unable to KO racism, they will be able to cut out all of this blatant ignorance that takes place during games.
Ban spectators who engage in this activity, ban crowds completely like they have done before and force the players to play in an empty stadium.
If they start hitting the clubs in their pockets, the clubs themselves will be forced to begin stamping this shit out.

Nothing pisses me off more than racism, and ppl who you know that act like they don't know you.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Peong on November 30, 2005, 05:24:20 PM
All this is why I hope an African team cut Italy tail come next year. 

I say large fines and closed-door games for the clubs, and point deductions for repeated offences.
Also the clubs should be made to implement anti-racism ad campaigns if they are problem spots.

Fines and bans for players who commit offences.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Pointman on December 01, 2005, 02:04:05 PM
My 2 cents

1. Racism is not a football issue. It's a societal issue....

2. Football matches just provide a public forum for expressing racial feelings, thoughts etc......

3. You can't stop racism by censoring people's words and feelings. Taking down banners and fining clubs for racial slurs and abuse might hide some of it, and prevent some players from being offended or being uncomfortable......but it's just putting a band-aid on a cancer.

4. It's neither FIFA's duty nor the football club's duty to stop racism. They can only do their best to foster an environment of professionalism in which everyone is treated fairly and feels comfortable.....In the real world that we live in without censorhip, it is very difficult.

5. The only real power that FIFA, football bodies, and clubs have in fighting racism directly is by implementing inclusive and non-discriminatory practices in employment and governance (something which I think almost every corporation in this day and age does).......

6. Racism should not offend only minority players...it should offend all players......In fact I believe a more powerful message would be sent if a white player/white players in Europe were to actively rebel against racism. Sure minority players are affected, but when when a significant number of white  players start expressing their distaste for racism as well.......then the football fraternity would seem more unified.....and it won't just be the usual case of the "oppressed" player complaining.

7. At the end of the day, the players just need to keep playing. Minority players need to stay strong, keep playing, perform well & be role models. Touching moments like Zoro's are good for the story books but unfortunately may not change much.......As a minority in a racist environment, the only power you have is to gain respect is through the content of your character and excellence in your profession......

8. Globalization, education, tolerance and a gradual acceptance of diversity are part of the very very very very slow societal evolution process that will end racism..........until then the players just need to keep playing.......

I think that your 6th point was the most valid. Back when Jackie Robinson came into the Big Leagues he experienced the same kind of treatment. It was only when his white teammates show solidarity with him that things began to change. Like you said, ultimately, the players have to keep playing and excelling...and have thick skins for the time being.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: lizzard1910 on December 13, 2005, 01:30:05 AM
This weekend Lazio's team captain Paolo Di Canio showed the fascistic saluation again towards the Lazio Fans....
He had done the same in January before in the match against AS Rome and received a € 10.000 fine....
Anybody still believes Lazio and Di Canio are not racists / nazis?  >:(

Here's another proof
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,390019,00.html

Just check the picture.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: spideybuff on December 13, 2005, 07:14:14 AM
People still think Lazio not racist? They openly racist..they used to boo their own black players. Next year in germany, I think we safe against the English, Swedes and Paraguay regarding racism. Paraguay I could see gettign fired up and saying things but they will say that to anybody regardless of race...just hadda hope men like Whitley, Gray (and hardest if he make it) could keep their cool. And I like Wayne Rooney as a player eh, but I could see him saying just about anythign when he get vex...
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: NUFF on December 13, 2005, 07:47:48 AM
kicker I agree wid you 100%.  until racism is wiped out from society as a whole it will continue to be displayed in all areas including sports.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Disgruntled_Trini on December 13, 2005, 11:23:23 AM

And I like Wayne Rooney as a player eh, but I could see him saying just about anythign when he get vex...


yeah he look like Nigger go slip out he mouth easy easy if Dog tackle him hard.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: grskywalker on December 13, 2005, 11:26:45 AM
Funny thing is that them Italians have black in them too
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: rastafari on December 13, 2005, 11:43:45 AM
Funny thing is that them Italians have black in them too

They just like a lot of trinis who does pretend to be white.


JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Behbehman on December 13, 2005, 11:49:59 AM
but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit

After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that

football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism

what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race

Yuh know ah rel vex! Allyuh songing as doh allyuh eh know dis racist ting in football occurring all the time. Allyuh know why? Is Pele dey hate because he is ah black man what dey refer to as zambos (Black Sambo)....and allyuh know dat Pele doh make joke.  Is black people time tuh rule the ball and dey fraid...because black and mixtures of blackness (hybrid vigour) taking the podium in almost every sport...I rel embarassed fuh white people well, except we own boy ME MUM :-[
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Cantona007 on December 13, 2005, 12:58:20 PM
but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit

After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that

football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism

what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race
a link to a Garth Crooks story on football racism:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/default.stm#

Same page with the story   on "me mum"
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: kicker on December 13, 2005, 01:00:02 PM
Funny thing is that them Italians have black in them too

please......that talk is as useless as a knife in a gun fight. black in them my a$$. Even if at some point in history, you could make claims that there was some "non-white" insurgence in the mediterranean Europe, that eh changing the price of rice when it comes to self perception and identity........

Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: ribbit on December 13, 2005, 03:46:34 PM
This weekend Lazio's team captain Paolo Di Canio showed the fascistic saluation again towards the Lazio Fans....
He had done the same in January before in the match against AS Rome and received a € 10.000 fine....
Anybody still believes Lazio and Di Canio are not racists / nazis?  >:(

Here's another proof
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,390019,00.html

Just check the picture.

here's another link (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/12/D8EERSNG0.html) similar but in english.

from this, it seems the underlying issues are more about politics.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: sjahrain on December 13, 2005, 04:06:30 PM
Racisim always exiisted and will continue to do so
The truth of the matter is that Italians French Spaniards and Portuguese are not considered Europeans because of the African influence in these places in an earlier time
The reality is when ever the man`s role or authority is threatened,this is his way of retaliating
I get a kick when I see this happenening in those places as it only highlights the level of thier ignorance
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: kicker on December 13, 2005, 04:23:21 PM

The truth of the matter is that Italians French Spaniards and Portuguese are not considered Europeans because of the African influence in these places in an earlier time


You should be careful not to preface such a retarded statement by "the truth of the matter"

Not considered Europeans by whom ?

Maybe if you ask an extremist radical Nazi........or someone being cynical or overly technical just to make a point......

Some of the Mediterranean Euro cultures have to some extent an Arab/North African influence (at times noticeable through physical features)...........but by and large, especially now in modern times Italians, Spanish, Portuguese etc... are considered Europeans, (not to mention THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES EUROPEAN).........



Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Filho on December 13, 2005, 06:05:20 PM

The truth of the matter is that Italians French Spaniards and Portuguese are not considered Europeans because of the African influence in these places in an earlier time
The reality is when ever the man`s role or authority is threatened,this is his way of retaliating
I get a kick when I see this happenening in those places as it only highlights the level of thier ignorance

Sorry, but that is not reality.....it is socio-political agenda that has only some basis in truth. A person's race is part biological, part social construct/perception. Of course (and this is especially true in the absence of non-whites) there is a loose 'hierarchy' amongst Europeans...but that is based on appearance as well as economic factors. European migration and the immigration of non-whites into Europe has essentially killed this ideology amongst the masses (especially our generation). It is a myth to think that all Spaniards have moorish blood or that all Italians have dark hair and skin, just as it is a myth to think all Norwegians have blond hair and blue eyes. I am not trying to rebuff you...there are those who will always believe in what you say...but it is no longer the common perception.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Marcos on December 13, 2005, 06:42:20 PM
I have never heard anyone dispute that Italians, French, Spaniards and Portuguese are European.
They most definitely are.
Ppl need to stop talking bull$h*t on dis site dred, they are only embarrassing themselves.

Arenas is still a jack@$$
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: kicker on December 13, 2005, 06:44:06 PM
Arenas is still a jack@$$

 :rotfl:

yeah he look like Nigger go slip out he mouth easy easy if Dog tackle him hard.

Allyuh good yes....Rooney might be the coolest cat out there....The man even bawl in an interview that he is a avid listener of hip-hop.......looks can be deceiving.....lewwe not hit the man that ranks jusso jusso.
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Disgruntled_Trini on December 13, 2005, 07:31:15 PM

Allyuh good yes....Rooney might be the coolest cat out there....The man even bawl in an interview that he is a avid listener of hip-hop.......looks can be deceiving.....lewwe not hit the man that ranks jusso jusso.


that is all well and good
if yuh ask ah racist in the statest who is they favourite basketballer they go tell yuh Jordan that eh have nothing to do with it

he look like he go shave he head and tattoo a swastika on he arm and lynch dog and tallman if he get jam too hard
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: Filho on December 13, 2005, 08:22:06 PM

Allyuh good yes....Rooney might be the coolest cat out there....The man even bawl in an interview that he is a avid listener of hip-hop.......looks can be deceiving.....lewwe not hit the man that ranks jusso jusso.


that is all well and good
if yuh ask ah racist in the statest who is they favourite basketballer they go tell yuh Jordan that eh have nothing to do with it

he look like he go shave he head and tattoo a swastika on he arm and lynch dog and tallman if he get jam too hard

nah..is Di Canio you talkin' bout  ;D
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: lizzard1910 on December 16, 2005, 07:20:24 AM
Blatter today announced that Di Canio will be punished by FIFA if he will be punished by the Italian football federation. He basically calls Di Canio a racist.
He also thinks about relegating racial clubs like Lazio!
Title: Re: Football Racism in Italy
Post by: RasIred on December 16, 2005, 07:44:14 AM
Blatter today announced that Di Canio will be punished by FIFA if he will be punished by the Italian football federation. He basically calls Di Canio a racist.
He also thinks about relegating racial clubs like Lazio!


Yeah FIFA have to work with the various Federations to put measures in place to deter this behaviour. It is a CANCER to the beautiful game........I doh care, if your supporters are beahving like animals and donkeys , the farmer ( club) have to rein in these fans. I think they are in the minority , but until CLUBS start getting sevre bans ( LIKE playing in a n empty stadium). This will continue to happen.

For example Aragones loose talk to Reyes referring to Henry as @$^ have no place in football.And only reason it was known wascause a reporter piced up the talk in passing. Yeah hewas motivating Reyes saying he better that HENry, but he had no right to use that language. As a coach they should FIRE he cat. I know FIFAwah Henry and Aragones to meet. However if I was HENRy i would shit him up intellectually and make him feel small.....We haveto stamp this out the game
Title: Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
Post by: Rotato Poti on December 21, 2005, 07:33:49 AM
]http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYjk0aWtjBF9TAzk1ODYzNTkwBHNlYwN0aA--?slug=reu-spainracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYjk0aWtjBF9TAzk1ODYzNTkwBHNlYwN0aA--?slug=reu-spainracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns[/i)

Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
 
MADRID, Dec 21 (Reuters) - Atletico Madrid have been fined 6,000 euros ($7,132) by the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) after a section of their fans hurled racial abuse at Espanyol goalkeeper Carlos Kameni in a league match last month.

Although the abuse was not noted in referee Arturo Dauden Ibanez's match report, the RFEF said it acted after a complaint from the government-run Anti-violence Commission which estimated that some 500 fans had been involved in the incidents.

Atletico, who were fined for similar offences last season, said that they had done everything in their power to stop the abuse.

Spain increased the punishments given to clubs for racist abuse in July and Primera Liga sides can now be fined between 6,000 and 18,000 euros depending on the number of fans involved and the action taken to deal with the incident.

FIFA president Sepp Blatter on Tuesday called for a tougher approach to the problem, including the possibility of docking points and excluding clubs from competitions for persistent breaches.

Separately, Kameni's club Espanyol have opened an investigation into the Cameroon international's complaints that he has been racially abused by some of the club's own fans in home matches.

"It's incredible that they jeer you in your own stadium," he told Spanish sports daily Sport on Tuesday.

"It is understandable if the fans complain when the team doesn't play well, but they can't do these racist acts again and again. I've had enough."


6000 Euros? .... are you kidding me?
First of all the RFEF encourages racism rather than thwarts it with their half hearted attempts to sweep the mess their fans created under the carpet.

Instead of 6000 Euros as a stiffer penalty, teams should be charged all the money from their gate receipts AND docked any points they picked up in that game. As a final nail in the coffin, they should also be mandated to play their next home game in front of an empty stadium. That is what I call a stiffer penalty.

Also, if FIFA wants to get serious, then they must follow through on Blatter's call and ban all these teams from European club competitions.

This is far worse than match-fixing and must be dealt with in an appropriate manner. If a player/ official can get banned for life for accepting money as part of a match-fixing arrangement, then those who racially abuse players must not get away with a slap on the wrist.

If teams cannot control their fans behaviour, then they dont deserve to have the so-called fans following them around.

6000 Euros is probably what each one of us will spend next summer in Europe. The RFEF is pure BS and I wish all their teams suffer in every competition until they straighten their program.
 
Title: Re: Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
Post by: marcovbasten on December 21, 2005, 07:58:33 AM

6000 euroos?

is more like an encouragement to do it again
strange fifa,real strange
i can remember quite expensive commercials with henry,nistelrooij,ronaldo
against racism
and now a fine of 6000 euroos
a joke
Title: Re: Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
Post by: Jah Gol on December 21, 2005, 08:59:08 AM
That is not even the salary of any of Athletico's starting players.
Title: Would you regard this as exhibitionism or racism?
Post by: saga pinto on December 21, 2005, 01:15:57 PM
Di Canio just 'exhibitionist'
From correspondents in Rome
December 21, 2005

ITALY Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has rejected suggestions that Paolo Di Canio is a fascist, saying the Lazio striker is simply an exhibitionist.

Di Canio was banned for one game on Monday and fined 10,000 euros ($12,000) for making a raised-arm, fascist-style salute in a Serie A match at the weekend.

His gesture has been widely condemned by politicians, players, fans and Jewish groups, but Berlusconi leapt to his defence overnight, saying the 37-year-old is simply misunderstood.

"Di Canio is an exhibitionist. His salute didn't have any significance," said Berlusconi.

"He's a good lad," added the prime minister, who owns Serie A team AC Milan.

Sepp Blatter, president of football's governing body FIFA, said players making fascist salutes should be banned from the game for life.

Di Canio has defended his gesture, which he has made at at least three Serie A matches this year, saying it was not intended as a political statement and that he will continue to acknowledge his fans in whatever way he chooses.

Lazio fans are known for their hard-right sympathies.

Title: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Tallman on December 21, 2005, 01:26:58 PM
Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
sportinglife.com


West Ham goalkeeper Shaka Hislop feels betrayed and bitterly disappointed by the controversial behaviour of his former team-mate Paolo Di Canio.

Hislop, a committed anti-racism campaigner, indicated his friendship with Di Canio is over after the Italian was suspended for one match and fined £7,000 for aiming a fascist salute at supporters.

Di Canio, who misses Lazio's Serie A match at Lecce this evening, labelled the suspension "unjust" and insisted his salute "has nothing to do with with any political ideologies".

The 37-year-old saluted his fans the same way during a Rome derby last season, and at Livorno last week. He insists it is a greeting which dates back to ancient Rome.

"I will always salute that way because it gives me a sense of belonging to my people," he said recently.

But Hislop does not buy former Hammer Di Canio's explanation, given the straight-armed salute now stands for something entirely different.

"I am very disappointed by it. Paolo never impressed me as that kind of person when he was here at West Ham," said Hislop.

"We got on very well. He got on well with my wife and my kids and to see him making the headlines for his actions disappoints me greatly because of what those gestures mean and the wider effect of it.

"Paolo certainly was someone I considered a friend who I liked a lot, so I am very disappointed."

Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi jumped to Di Canio's defence on Wednesday, insisting the striker is not a fascist and simply misunderstood.

"Di Canio is an exhibitionist. His salute didn't have any significance. He's a good lad," said Berlusconi.

But Hislop cannot dismiss Di Canio's behaviour as quickly and easily as that.

"I feel particularly disheartened by it. It is one thing to see someone do it and take a stand against it," he said.

"But when it is someone you certainly felt was a friend it has a much longer-lasting effect."
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Grande on December 21, 2005, 01:36:27 PM
Di Canio is ah waste  of time and space
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Andre on December 21, 2005, 01:38:53 PM
di canio = has been seeking attention.

pathetic.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: trinidre on December 21, 2005, 01:42:02 PM
yeah but I dont think the man meant anything racist by what he did because if he was always so nice to shaka wife and kids and never seemed like that then it might've been taking out of context because yuh doh just turn racist just so, is either yoh is or yuh aint
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Teflon Don on December 21, 2005, 01:43:24 PM
di canio = has been seeking attention.

pathetic.

Yup he is seeking attention,,,,,just like antonio cassano wud do ne thing to be in the publics eye bcuz they dont feel they get enough praise for their "talent"
On the other hand i dont believe di canio is a racist
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Andre on December 21, 2005, 01:44:03 PM
breds,

it have plenty racist who eh big man or woman enough to say what they think about yuh to yuh face. they will smile at yuh and do like allyuh cool. then when they with their people, is a different story.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: trinidre on December 21, 2005, 01:45:01 PM
I agree he know he best days done past and is time for him to retire and he just seeking attention but ah doh think he racist but then again yuh never know yes
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Teflon Don on December 21, 2005, 01:51:13 PM
the salute that di canio does is an old ROMAN war salute meaning victory....it was then adapted by neo nazi.. hitler etc etc....so seeing dat di canio is an  ITALIAN....born in ROME which was at a time the heart of the ROMAN empire.....if he wants to do his historical ROMAN salute dat hitler and he boys who happen to be GERMAN stole from the ROMANS dat is his business he have a right to do it....
if micheal ballack do it den i go watch it suspect.

lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 21, 2005, 02:15:10 PM
the salute that di canio does is an old ROMAN war salute meaning victory....it was then adapted by neo nazi.. hitler etc etc....so seeing dat di canio is an  ITALIAN....born in ROME which was at a time the heart of the ROMAN empire.....if he wants to do his historical ROMAN salute dat hitler and he boys who happen to be GERMAN stole from the ROMANS dat is his business he have a right to do it....
if micheal ballack do it den i go watch it suspect.

lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???
nah... I don't agree. The salute USED to signify a greeting among Roman soldiers. Today, it means something else entrirely; a fascist (and racist) gesture. DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY. Worse yet, it is adopted by the Utlras of Lazio, and well, we could write a book about them and their racism/fascism.
Also, look, DiCanio as an adult has a choice; he could make the salute and offend a large cross-section of the world's society, or he could abstain and show his loyalty to his club some other way. It is a simple, adult choice to make. We live in an inclusive society; we can either play by the rules or not. He has chosen the latter.
My 2 rupiah...
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Pointman on December 21, 2005, 02:19:20 PM
the salute that di canio does is an old ROMAN war salute meaning victory....it was then adapted by neo nazi.. hitler etc etc....so seeing dat di canio is an  ITALIAN....born in ROME which was at a time the heart of the ROMAN empire.....if he wants to do his historical ROMAN salute dat hitler and he boys who happen to be GERMAN stole from the ROMANS dat is his business he have a right to do it....
if micheal ballack do it den i go watch it suspect.

lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???

Teflon ah cyar agree wid dah one. Di Canio should know better(if he's not a racist). Plus the Italians and the Nazis were allies during WWII. He should definitely know better.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 21, 2005, 02:19:47 PM

lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???
Shearer's celebration is completely different. He raises his hand almost vertically upwards (the forearm slightly bent) and leaves it upraised with the palm facing forward. The Facsist salute calls for first touching the chest with a closed palm and then extending the forearm stiffly with the palm facing downward and then (possibly) touching the chest again... no comparison, I'm afraid. Don't bring Shearer into this.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cowen on December 21, 2005, 02:32:32 PM
Shaka once again showing his Class. Stand by your morals boss ..... what right ... is right ...... Di Canio is an ass  :beermug:
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: ribbit on December 21, 2005, 02:41:11 PM
DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.

cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 21, 2005, 02:44:53 PM
DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.

cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense  ;) )
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: dcs on December 21, 2005, 02:49:55 PM
He has to make sure the people he has directed the salute to do not interpret it as an endorsement of fascism.....mostly the supporters.  If he doing the salute and people in the stands doing it with the NEGATIVE meaning in their minds then he would be foolish to continue.  He can't turn a blind eye if it incites something.

If his purpose was to reclaim the gesture from the fascists maybe.....but is a bit dubious that was his intention BEFORE he was criticized.

Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Teflon Don on December 21, 2005, 02:52:40 PM
Italy on a whole has to do something about the racial problem.I was looking for this artical but couldnt find it but i did a little while ago.


Racist chants almost halt Serie A game
MILAN, Nov 27 (Reuters) -
Messina's Ivory Coast defender Zoro threatened to halt a Serie A game on Sunday after suffering racial abuse from travelling Inter Milan supporters.
Zoro picked up the ball in the 66th minute and headed off the field towards the fourth official before other players, including Inter's Brazilian forward Adriano and Nigerian striker Obafemi Martins, persuaded him to continue.

"I was treated badly and can't have that. Away from home they can do what they want, I'm used to that, but not at my home ground. I took the responsibility and took the ball to the fourth official," he told Italy's Sky Sport.
Reports said the Inter fans had made 'monkey noises' when Zoro had touched the ball.
"These are people who don't love this game but they need to learn that we aren't animals and I want some respect. They travel many kilometres to follow their team and then they do these idiocies," said Zoro.
The defender said that Adriano and Martins had apologised for the behaviour of the Inter supporters but asked him to continue the match.
"They apologised to me for the fans and told me that they often have to put up with it as well and asked me not to stop the game," said Zoro.
He said it was by no means the first time he has had to cope with racism during his eight years in Italian football. "It has happened many times, always, wherever I go. But today I couldn't put up with it," he said.
Inter president Giacinto Facchetti apologised for the behaviour of the fans: "Unfortunately these are things that happen often but Inter has always stood against racism," he said.
Parma's Senagalese defender Ferdinand Coly said he wanted the game's governing body FIFA to take stronger action over racism.
"I want to ask FIFA to do something -- we are just players who have to play there isn't a lot we can do, they have to do more," he said.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: dcs on December 21, 2005, 02:57:59 PM
They ban unruly fans from games in England don't they?
With face recognition software.

Do the same for this.  It will probably be very easy to identify the culprits especially when they are the opposing team's fans.  At the very least throw them out of the stadium....it would be nice to hit them with a baton.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 21, 2005, 03:00:30 PM

Inter president Giacinto Facchetti apologised for the behaviour of the fans: "Unfortunately these are things that happen often but Inter has always stood against racism,"
If they stand against racism then do something about it. Don't bleat on about it being "unfortunate" and "these things happen"
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 21, 2005, 03:02:02 PM
it would be nice to hit them with a baton.

 :cheers:  :rotfl:
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: ribbit on December 21, 2005, 03:07:55 PM
DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.

cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense  ;) )

the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.

to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.

all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: NYtriniwhiteboy.. on December 21, 2005, 03:09:25 PM
Di canio has to know exactly what that salute means these days whether he looking for attention or not is irrelevant.. It is used as a racist salute and if he isnt a racist then he wouldnt be doin it..
Well done for Shaka standing up for what he believes
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: JDB on December 21, 2005, 03:16:00 PM
I have encountered a lot of people who say the wrong thing and defend it by saying that they don't mean it in the bad way that other people do.

They just do it among friends or because its funny.

The problem with this is that you give strength to those with ill-intentions by repeating their actions, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR INTENT IS.

Every repetition of the word/action is a missed opportunity rebuke it as wrong and disgusting. It is even worse than turning a blind eye. It is an admission that you do not see a problem or believe that these things are wrong and so it is oksy to be associated with them.

The origin of the act or word is less relevant than its current accepted meaning or significance. It has been adopted by racists, it is a racist symbol, if there was any debate about this there would be people other than Di Canio doing it and defending it.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Blue on December 21, 2005, 03:53:17 PM
As a youth, Di Canio was a member of Lazio's racist and violent Ultras. Lazios ultras are well known for their racist beliefs and the number of black players to represent Lazio can be counted on one hand - and I don't mean at the moment, I mean ever. So for anyone to suggest that the salute was patriotic rather than than racist is silly.

Di Canio is an exhibitionist, he always has been. But by making the gesture he will galvanise lazio's racist element even further. No doubt he will be seen as a martyr by his supporters, even if the rest of us see him as an idiot.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: dcs on December 21, 2005, 04:43:21 PM
As a youth, Di Canio was a member of Lazio's racist and violent Ultras. Lazios ultras are well known for their racist beliefs.....

What he intended to communicate is less important than the message people interpreted it as especially if the club may have to deal with the subsequent behaviour/attitude of the fans.
If those Ultras see it as some incitement/endorsement of a racist ideology u would be a fool to use the gesture regardless of what you think of it.

Can he claim ignorance of that consequence?
Probably not.

And I disagree with the notion that football is powerless to fight racism.
Any arena that can be used to demonstrate to the public the ideal way to handle racism is of great benefit....especaily when you have millions of young people witnessing what happens when someone makes monkey calls to a player or a player themselves crosses the line.
Of course the punishment must be proportional and yesterday's villain may actually prove to be a valuable asset...especially if they are trying to repair their image with hopefully some new found perspective.

Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 21, 2005, 04:59:50 PM
DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.

cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense  ;) )

the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.

to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.

all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree with your analysis. It has NOTHING to do with politcal correctness when someone is offended by a salute that is effectively racist. You talk about symbolism, but isn't Paolo's very use of the gesture a symolic way of "connecting" with his "people" (by the way, he has overtly said this)?  If you ask me, the PC instantiation here is the idea of "I can do what I want, no matter if the wider society is offended". Believe me, I (and many others on this board) live in a culture that eschews the rights of a just society in favour of the "rights" of the individual. It is all very touchy-feely and nice and theoretical to talk about racism being a societal issuse and all (an obvious and spurious argument), but what are you going to do about it? Nothing or something? It is (again) all well and good to talk about the wonderful societal changes that must be made to fix the problem, but in the meantime, we have a match on Saturday and jackasses on the terraces who want to take advantage of the weakness of the officials that allows ugly racist behaviour.

This is not rocket science, either you act or you don't.

I'm quite surprised at your definition of PC. They have a saying here about being able to ignore the elephant in the room; that my friend is PC and in this case, Paolo is the elephant.
And I'm sorry, we can't give the man the benefit of the doubt, he has already nailed his colours to the mast in a VERY public manner. It is RUBBISH to talk about Paolo publicly disavowing racism. Have you ever heard a racist calling himself racist? I live in the South, where today peolpe talk about "the South will rises again" and when you (a Black person) question them about what they mean, they get very quiet. Anyone can disavow racism with words; ask yourself, will Shaka make that salute (even in joke)?

He(Paolo)  identifies with the jackasses; this is public record. I think JDB spoke about people who do the wrong thing and then justify it by saying that "I didn't mean it that way" disingenious at best, dishonest and dangerous at worst.

Again, this isn't rocket science or a Social Sciences thesis; if you offend society, you have to pay the price. I'm not interested in singing "Kum By Ya" with Paolo and his ilk.

My 2 dinars...

Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Jah Gol on December 21, 2005, 05:52:24 PM
Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi jumped to Di Canio's defence on Wednesday, insisting the striker is not a fascist and simply misunderstood.

"Di Canio is an exhibitionist. His salute didn't have any significance. He's a good lad," said Berlusconi.


These Europeans will never change.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 21, 2005, 06:09:26 PM
the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.

to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.

all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.


ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm

i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: ribbit on December 21, 2005, 06:33:53 PM
the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.

to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.

all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.


ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm

i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.

filho, i'm not the type to get emotional and worked up over gestures and try to get them banned when people use them. there is a separation between semiotics and semantics that i'm trying to get at. i'm willing to give di canio the benefit of the doubt with regards to the semantic meaning of his salute.

it's interesting that so many people here are saying that the more "recent" public/cultural meaning of the one arm salute takes precedence over what di canio might actually mean to say. on what grounds?  when someone makes statements like this that aren't based in fact or logically arrived at but rather on their own values, i know that i should use my own value system, not theirs. i have confidence in my own assessment of the situation to decide what meaning i will attribute the gesture. perhaps you are a mind reader and "really" know the score with di canio, but perhaps also you are easily lead and have a weak spine, or really believe that you should have the meaning of a gesture dictated to you.

well, i hope i didn't offend your delicate sensibilities too much. :beermug:
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: ribbit on December 21, 2005, 07:44:24 PM
I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree with your analysis. It has NOTHING to do with politcal correctness when someone is offended by a salute that is effectively racist. You talk about symbolism, but isn't Paolo's very use of the gesture a symolic way of "connecting" with his "people" (by the way, he has overtly said this)?  If you ask me, the PC instantiation here is the idea of "I can do what I want, no matter if the wider society is offended". Believe me, I (and many others on this board) live in a culture that eschews the rights of a just society in favour of the "rights" of the individual. It is all very touchy-feely and nice and theoretical to talk about racism being a societal issuse and all (an obvious and spurious argument), but what are you going to do about it? Nothing or something? It is (again) all well and good to talk about the wonderful societal changes that must be made to fix the problem, but in the meantime, we have a match on Saturday and jackasses on the terraces who want to take advantage of the weakness of the officials that allows ugly racist behaviour.

This is not rocket science, either you act or you don't.

very impressive. either "you act or don't act" - to what ends? the only reason FIFA is doing anything is to look good. you act like they should get the f*cking nobel peace prize for their anti-racism campaign. you are right, it's not rocket science. IT'S BUSINESS.

I'm quite surprised at your definition of PC. They have a saying here about being able to ignore the elephant in the room; that my friend is PC and in this case, Paolo is the elephant.
And I'm sorry, we can't give the man the benefit of the doubt, he has already nailed his colours to the mast in a VERY public manner. It is RUBBISH to talk about Paolo publicly disavowing racism. Have you ever heard a racist calling himself racist? I live in the South, where today peolpe talk about "the South will rises again" and when you (a Black person) question them about what they mean, they get very quiet. Anyone can disavow racism with words; ask yourself, will Shaka make that salute (even in joke)?

see my comments to filho on the difference between semiotics and semantics. banning a player, a team, a group of fans or a gesture is a great way for FIFA to "address" the situation to appease vocal anti-racists like yourself. i guess i'm not as sensitive as you are to mere gestures. how the hell do you survive in the Deep South anyway?

He(Paolo)  identifies with the jackasses; this is public record. I think JDB spoke about people who do the wrong thing and then justify it by saying that "I didn't mean it that way" disingenious at best, dishonest and dangerous at worst.

well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 21, 2005, 08:23:59 PM
the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.

to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.

all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.


ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm

i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.

filho, i'm not the type to get emotional and worked up over gestures and try to get them banned when people use them. there is a separation between semiotics and semantics that i'm trying to get at. i'm willing to give di canio the benefit of the doubt with regards to the semantic meaning of his salute.

it's interesting that so many people here are saying that the more "recent" public/cultural meaning of the one arm salute takes precedence over what di canio might actually mean to say. on what grounds?  when someone makes statements like this that aren't based in fact or logically arrived at but rather on their own values, i know that i should use my own value system, not theirs. i have confidence in my own assessment of the situation to decide what meaning i will attribute the gesture. perhaps you are a mind reader and "really" know the score with di canio, but perhaps also you are easily lead and have a weak spine, or really believe that you should have the meaning of a gesture dictated to you.

well, i hope i didn't offend your delicate sensibilities too much. :beermug:

haha....nobody is worked up. from what I have read most people here consider DiCanio a sad joke..and so do I. Stick to debating your points, which you did very well, and refrain from the personal insults. Seriously man, all dat wasn't called for and when you drop to the level of insults to make your point...you have lost the plot. If you read what I am saying I am not concerned over what the gesture means to Di Canio. He may very well be doing a 'roman salute'..but the more important issue (imo) is the effect that it will have on those it was intended for. If you believe 'his people' thought that was a roman salute...then so be it. I am of the opinion that most of the morons in the crowd had no idea what a roman salute is. answer my previous question...you would really believe him if he had raised a swastika and said he meant to bring his people good luck?. I don't have to be a mind reader to know that many of the skinhead ultras Di Canio was addressing took it as a fascist/Nazi salute and were incited and felt their ideals validated. And since they are prone to violent acts...well I find the whole incident offensive and potentially dangerous. Sometimes our responsibilities to our fellow man should supercede a personal agenda.......i realize that you are making a good point, but this is a really poor example...
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 21, 2005, 08:28:20 PM
well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.

dread...you need to stop mentioing me in your posts. like i hit a nerve

I am sorry that  you have such a problem with an opinion different from yours. from your repsonses it is pretty clear that you did not even grasp what I was trying to say. and what minds am I reading? you are too busy trying to win an argument. if you deflate your ego and read a little you will realize that you can stick to your opinion but still realize that otheres have some valid ideas even if they are contrary to yours

btw. it is not unrealistic to believe the 'political dimension' and 'racist diemnsion' are not entirely mutually exclusive in this instance...
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: kicker on December 21, 2005, 09:18:02 PM
Ribbit man yuh sounding like a man who just loves to hear himself.

What DiCanio did is subject to interpretion. Either interpretation may be accurate. In the same way that you discredit "mind reading", someone could discredit your take on the situation as gullible or naive.......

What you're effectively saying is :"Di Canio said he didn't mean to be racist, so I believe him"....what makes your assesment so superior to someone else's that you feel you have to label them as spineless ?

And the self righteous trip you're on talking about your "value system" as opposed to theirs is horse sh*t........(your determination that people are easily lead or spineless)........c'mon man...you could spew that vomit to the illiterate and expect them to eat it, but you and me know that is mess......your value system is as much influenced by ancient interpretations of the gestures (and DiCanio's stated "intention") as "theirs" is influenced by the present interpretation........so it's a matter of choice.....and neither is more noble, "spineless" or "easily led" than the other.......

One of the  differences between human beings and animals is our ability to use judgement and discretion to influence our actions, as opposed to relying purely on instinct. Regardless of whether Di Canio is a racist or not, he didn't exercise the necessary judgement and discretion......and as a result he offended people who looked up to him..........that's not noble....and he knows it. Racist or not he knows he was wrong, which is why he feels the need to explain himself........

In this day and age with people knowing what we know, it is not spineless or weak to be skeptical about Di Canio's intentions or even offended by his actions.......and if you're not open minded enough to see that then it's a waste having a discussion with you.



Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 22, 2005, 08:29:54 AM


very impressive. either "you act or don't act" - to what ends? the only reason FIFA is doing anything is to look good. you act like they should get the f*cking nobel peace prize for their anti-racism campaign. you are right, it's not rocket science. IT'S BUSINESS.

Wow.... Nobel Peace Prize??? Where did THAT come from  :rotfl: I also said that is is not a Social Sciences thesis, which you are obviously holding on to. BTW, we are not talking exclusively about FIFA, we are talking about UEFA, the Italian FA, the Spanish FA etc... Are you saying that the only reason that any one of these organizations does anything is to look good, and by extension, the only reason any agent of social change does anything (no matter how small or large) is to "look good"?  :rotfl: :rotfl:

see my comments to filho on the difference between semiotics and semantics. banning a player, a team, a group of fans or a gesture is a great way for FIFA to "address" the situation to appease vocal anti-racists like yourself. i guess i'm not as sensitive as you are to mere gestures. how the hell do you survive in the Deep South anyway?


Again, no one is restricting the problem/solution to FIFA. And you still have not addressed the issue of acting NOW to deny racists an avenue to express themselves. Every idiot knows that the first step is immediate action. You spend a lot of time attacking the people on this thread who disagree with your opinion, but

  • you have done nothing to advance you own "argument"
  • you have done nothing to effectively disprove anyone else's arguments
  • you have not addressed the fundamental issue of personal responsibility and responsibility for your actions. You are too caught up in "proving" some airy-fairy Social Sciences drivel about "a societal problem" ... yawn....
  • instead you have resorted to wild invective (no one else has personally attacked anyone or even used obcenity to make their point)
All this rubbish about DiCanio's personal interpretation of the salute and "mind reading" and personal value systems.... ugh. At least be original.... Kicker and others have made the (obvious) point about personal responsibility, but I guess you did not get the memo
Oh, and by the way, the reason I "survive" in the Deep South is because the US is a nation of laws, and it is ILLEGAL to openly display racist behaviour, and do you know what, a lot of people actually frown on that sort of redneck behaviour... it all starts somewhere.

well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.
You are not impressing anyone with your knowledge of the "political dimension" to the problem. To anyone who reads and has a brain, this is obvious. The question is what to do about it... geez.
Anyway, cheers and Merry Christmas to all.  :beermug: :beermug:
[/b]
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: ribbit on December 22, 2005, 10:01:42 AM
the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.

to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.

all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.


ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm

i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.

filho, i'm not the type to get emotional and worked up over gestures and try to get them banned when people use them. there is a separation between semiotics and semantics that i'm trying to get at. i'm willing to give di canio the benefit of the doubt with regards to the semantic meaning of his salute.

it's interesting that so many people here are saying that the more "recent" public/cultural meaning of the one arm salute takes precedence over what di canio might actually mean to say. on what grounds?  when someone makes statements like this that aren't based in fact or logically arrived at but rather on their own values, i know that i should use my own value system, not theirs. i have confidence in my own assessment of the situation to decide what meaning i will attribute the gesture. perhaps you are a mind reader and "really" know the score with di canio, but perhaps also you are easily lead and have a weak spine, or really believe that you should have the meaning of a gesture dictated to you.

well, i hope i didn't offend your delicate sensibilities too much. :beermug:

haha....nobody is worked up. from what I have read most people here consider DiCanio a sad joke..and so do I. Stick to debating your points, which you did very well, and refrain from the personal insults. Seriously man, all dat wasn't called for and when you drop to the level of insults to make your point...you have lost the plot. If you read what I am saying I am not concerned over what the gesture means to Di Canio. He may very well be doing a 'roman salute'..but the more important issue (imo) is the effect that it will have on those it was intended for. If you believe 'his people' thought that was a roman salute...then so be it. I am of the opinion that most of the morons in the crowd had no idea what a roman salute is. answer my previous question...you would really believe him if he had raised a swastika and said he meant to bring his people good luck?. I don't have to be a mind reader to know that many of the skinhead ultras Di Canio was addressing took it as a fascist/Nazi salute and were incited and felt their ideals validated. And since they are prone to violent acts...well I find the whole incident offensive and potentially dangerous. Sometimes our responsibilities to our fellow man should supercede a personal agenda.......i realize that you are making a good point, but this is a really poor example...

filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.

i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event. if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: ribbit on December 22, 2005, 10:04:01 AM
Ribbit man yuh sounding like a man who just loves to hear himself.

What DiCanio did is subject to interpretion. Either interpretation may be accurate. In the same way that you discredit "mind reading", someone could discredit your take on the situation as gullible or naive.......

What you're effectively saying is :"Di Canio said he didn't mean to be racist, so I believe him"....what makes your assesment so superior to someone else's that you feel you have to label them as spineless ?

And the self righteous trip you're on talking about your "value system" as opposed to theirs is horse sh*t........(your determination that people are easily lead or spineless)........c'mon man...you could spew that vomit to the illiterate and expect them to eat it, but you and me know that is mess......your value system is as much influenced by ancient interpretations of the gestures (and DiCanio's stated "intention") as "theirs" is influenced by the present interpretation........so it's a matter of choice.....and neither is more noble, "spineless" or "easily led" than the other.......

One of the  differences between human beings and animals is our ability to use judgement and discretion to influence our actions, as opposed to relying purely on instinct. Regardless of whether Di Canio is a racist or not, he didn't exercise the necessary judgement and discretion......and as a result he offended people who looked up to him..........that's not noble....and he knows it. Racist or not he knows he was wrong, which is why he feels the need to explain himself........

In this day and age with people knowing what we know, it is not spineless or weak to be skeptical about Di Canio's intentions or even offended by his actions.......and if you're not open minded enough to see that then it's a waste having a discussion with you.

kicker, i said "benefit of the doubt". there is still doubt. i'm not trying to rush to a conclusion - on the contrary. others like the football organizations have a need to resolve what di canio means in order to exact a punishment. but i'm willing to leave it unresolved.
from the rest of your speech i see we agree that what di canio means is key.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: ribbit on December 22, 2005, 10:04:40 AM


very impressive. either "you act or don't act" - to what ends? the only reason FIFA is doing anything is to look good. you act like they should get the f*cking nobel peace prize for their anti-racism campaign. you are right, it's not rocket science. IT'S BUSINESS.

Wow.... Nobel Peace Prize??? Where did THAT come from  :rotfl: I also said that is is not a Social Sciences thesis, which you are obviously holding on to. BTW, we are not talking exclusively about FIFA, we are talking about UEFA, the Italian FA, the Spanish FA etc... Are you saying that the only reason that any one of these organizations does anything is to look good, and by extension, the only reason any agent of social change does anything (no matter how small or large) is to "look good"?  :rotfl: :rotfl:

see my comments to filho on the difference between semiotics and semantics. banning a player, a team, a group of fans or a gesture is a great way for FIFA to "address" the situation to appease vocal anti-racists like yourself. i guess i'm not as sensitive as you are to mere gestures. how the hell do you survive in the Deep South anyway?


Again, no one is restricting the problem/solution to FIFA. And you still have not addressed the issue of acting NOW to deny racists an avenue to express themselves. Every idiot knows that the first step is immediate action. You spend a lot of time attacking the people on this thread who disagree with your opinion, but

  • you have done nothing to advance you own "argument"
  • you have done nothing to effectively disprove anyone else's arguments
  • you have not addressed the fundamental issue of personal responsibility and responsibility for your actions. You are too caught up in "proving" some airy-fairy Social Sciences drivel about "a societal problem" ... yawn....
  • instead you have resorted to wild invective (no one else has personally attacked anyone or even used obcenity to make their point)
All this rubbish about DiCanio's personal interpretation of the salute and "mind reading" and personal value systems.... ugh. At least be original.... Kicker and others have made the (obvious) point about personal responsibility, but I guess you did not get the memo
Oh, and by the way, the reason I "survive" in the Deep South is because the US is a nation of laws, and it is ILLEGAL to openly display racist behaviour, and do you know what, a lot of people actually frown on that sort of redneck behaviour... it all starts somewhere.

well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.
You are not impressing anyone with your knowledge of the "political dimension" to the problem. To anyone who reads and has a brain, this is obvious. The question is what to do about it... geez.
Anyway, cheers and Merry Christmas to all.  :beermug: :beermug:
[/b]

sorry cantona i thought you were commenting on the ruling to suspend di canio with your "act or don't act" remark. was that remark directed at a particular action in the article? what action are you referring to?
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Trini_fan on December 22, 2005, 10:19:12 AM
DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.

cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense  ;) )

the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.

to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.

all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree with your analysis. It has NOTHING to do with politcal correctness when someone is offended by a salute that is effectively racist. You talk about symbolism, but isn't Paolo's very use of the gesture a symolic way of "connecting" with his "people" (by the way, he has overtly said this)?  If you ask me, the PC instantiation here is the idea of "I can do what I want, no matter if the wider society is offended". Believe me, I (and many others on this board) live in a culture that eschews the rights of a just society in favour of the "rights" of the individual. It is all very touchy-feely and nice and theoretical to talk about racism being a societal issuse and all (an obvious and spurious argument), but what are you going to do about it? Nothing or something? It is (again) all well and good to talk about the wonderful societal changes that must be made to fix the problem, but in the meantime, we have a match on Saturday and jackasses on the terraces who want to take advantage of the weakness of the officials that allows ugly racist behaviour.

This is not rocket science, either you act or you don't.

I'm quite surprised at your definition of PC. They have a saying here about being able to ignore the elephant in the room; that my friend is PC and in this case, Paolo is the elephant.
And I'm sorry, we can't give the man the benefit of the doubt, he has already nailed his colours to the mast in a VERY public manner. It is RUBBISH to talk about Paolo publicly disavowing racism. Have you ever heard a racist calling himself racist? I live in the South, where today peolpe talk about "the South will rises again" and when you (a Black person) question them about what they mean, they get very quiet. Anyone can disavow racism with words; ask yourself, will Shaka make that salute (even in joke)?

He(Paolo)  identifies with the jackasses; this is public record. I think JDB spoke about people who do the wrong thing and then justify it by saying that "I didn't mean it that way" disingenious at best, dishonest and dangerous at worst.

Again, this isn't rocket science or a Social Sciences thesis; if you offend society, you have to pay the price. I'm not interested in singing "Kum By Ya" with Paolo and his ilk.

My 2 dinars...



This is obviously being blown way out of porportion.

Your argument of act or don't act does not hold water. Do you stop doing something because it is offensive to some people or do you simply use it when among those who do not find it offensive?

It is the same as some American gestures being offensive in other cultures. Do you stop using all together or do you simply use it in the right context when the right audience is present?

The man was using a symbol that would be understood by his fellow Romans. Seeing that it was his main audience at the time, it is understandable.

Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: JDB on December 22, 2005, 10:24:20 AM

filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.

i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event.

This is basically a "right to free speach" argument which is fine but even this right has its restrictions especially in public arenas.

With rights come responsibilities and an individual or group does not exist in a vacuum. You cannot plead ignorance to the significance of your actions in the eyes of society. If the actions are accepted as being "racist" do not expect to be labelled "Roman" by society, whatever your motivations.

If you associate with a racist faction do not expect to be considered an exception who just happens to take solidarity with them because of common identity but not common  ideology.

if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.

Well if Di Canio identifies with a group that has racist chants, racist banners, uses an accepted racist salute (but only for tradional reasons) then call me judgemental but I reserve the right to label them as racists.

Shaka should be no different.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: JDB on December 22, 2005, 10:38:19 AM
This is obviously being blown way out of porportion.

Your argument of act or don't act does not hold water. Do you stop doing something because it is offensive to some people or do you simply use it when among those who do not find it offensive?

It is the same as some American gestures being offensive in other cultures. Do you stop using all together or do you simply use it in the right context when the right audience is present?

The man was using a symbol that would be understood by his fellow Romans. Seeing that it was his main audience at the time, it is understandable.

This argument ignores the main fact that the fans that he was addressing are a racist faction. There is no debate about that, it is well documented.

I am sure that most Romans would disassociate themselves from those actions so to label them as "Romans" is an attempt to not call it what it is.

Also what is his main audience when he is playing football in a televised game in a 60,000 seater stadium? Was he doing it privately among only those who don't find it offensive?

Did he use it in the right context then and are we intruding on the private and personal goings on of Di Canio and company.

The sickening thing is the ongoing attempts of people ignore these groups, looking for justifications and defending indefensible actions. Why is there this desire to give Di Canio freedom to express himself as opposed to doing everything to stamp out the prejudice and hate of the people he emboldens?
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: kicker on December 22, 2005, 10:48:40 AM

filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.

i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event. if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.

it doesn't matter who he claims to be communicating with if he does it in a public forum. When you do something in public, you are communicating with the public....directly, indirectly, intentionally or by accident.....The same way you choose to ignore, other choose not to.

Like I say, whether you choose to label him as a racist or not.....what he did was disrespectful,......and I don't know about you but I can't defend disrespect.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 22, 2005, 11:08:54 AM
filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.

i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event. if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.

ribbit.....I have no problems with Lazio, and think Di Canio is a very talented, under-rated footballer. I especially liked him at West Ham. Di Canio can and will do as he pleases, but your ideaology of inaction unless it directly affects you is weak and if everyone felt that way...well....we would probably all be speaking German right now  :-\ the fact that Di Canio did not address you or me is not a key issue. To also believe that all he did was greet fellow romans is...well...funny. The roman salute died with Rome, just as the Swastika is no longer a symbol of peace and you would not go around telling people you are gay to express what a great mood you are in. I choose to believe that Di Canio is more intelligent than he is letting on and made the gesture to offend....which is why he remarked that the gesture was also a reaction to how badly he was treated during the game by opposing fans. anyhow...I am just staing my opinion. we disagree. no harm no foul there either
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: JayTheWrecker on December 22, 2005, 11:26:38 AM
To ribbit,

you state that there is some doubt as to Di Canio's intent, and that he should be giving the benefit of that doubt

hmm...... i would say that the "Roman" salute to a fan base that has a notorious facist element is very damning, but the clincher for me is the Mussolini tattoo

sorry, in my mind there is no doubt, he's as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of dog poo
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Cantona007 on December 22, 2005, 12:09:10 PM
This is obviously being blown way out of porportion.

Your argument of act or don't act does not hold water. Do you stop doing something because it is offensive to some people or do you simply use it when among those who do not find it offensive?

It is the same as some American gestures being offensive in other cultures. Do you stop using all together or do you simply use it in the right context when the right audience is present?

The man was using a symbol that would be understood by his fellow Romans. Seeing that it was his main audience at the time, it is understandable.

This argument ignores the main fact that the fans that he was addressing are a racist faction. There is no debate about that, it is well documented.

I am sure that most Romans would disassociate themselves from those actions so to label them as "Romans" is an attempt to not call it what it is.

Also what is his main audience when he is playing football in a televised game in a 60,000 seater stadium? Was he doing it privately among only those who don't find it offensive?

Did he use it in the right context then and are we intruding on the private and personal goings on of Di Canio and company.

The sickening thing is the ongoing attempts of people ignore these groups, looking for justifications and defending indefensible actions. Why is there this desire to give Di Canio freedom to express himself as opposed to doing everything to stamp out the prejudice and hate of the people he emboldens?
Well said. I have a really simple question: Why would you, (when given the choice) willingly choose to offend anyone? Choices, people... choices.
Peace to all.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: vibetrini on December 22, 2005, 12:15:43 PM
Aight fellas - non ah we know d man personally, except for probably Shaka. And Shaka say dat d man pull good with his family, so I wouldn't jump to say d man iz a racist, cuz fascism DOES NOT EQUAL racism. Racism can be a subset of fascist ideas for some who support fascism, just as how some people who support democracy are racist.

And doh be saying that Lazio is a racist club and Lazio fans are racist... you CANNOT generalize like dat.

Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: JDB on December 22, 2005, 12:30:33 PM
Aight fellas - non ah we know d man personally, except for probably Shaka. And Shaka say dat d man pull good with his family, so I wouldn't jump to say d man iz a racist, cuz fascism DOES NOT EQUAL racism. Racism can be a subset of fascist ideas for some who support fascism, just as how some people who support democracy are racist.

And doh be saying that Lazio is a racist club and Lazio fans are racist... you CANNOT generalize like dat.



Nobody is genralizing. I have referred to a "factuion" of lazio fans and everybody acknowledges that it is only a group of Lazio fans.

As for Facist vs racist. That is more sugar coating.

When they boo Zorro, the black Roma players and black players that visit from other clubs are they objecting to their political ideology or their skin colour?
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: vibetrini on December 22, 2005, 12:44:26 PM
i hear you on d booing part, but remember manfirdini and others on Lazio team now not "white" ... Veron, Crespo and Salas are not considered white either and they all played for Lazio.

We can go back n forth over the crowd, buh d thread was started becase of his salute.... and d salute might mean support for fascism but does not mean its a racist salute.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: JDB on December 22, 2005, 12:57:53 PM
i hear you on d booing part, but remember manfirdini and others on Lazio team now not "white" ... Veron, Crespo and Salas are not considered white either and they all played for Lazio.

We can go back n forth over the crowd, buh d thread was started becase of his salute.... and d salute might mean support for fascism but does not mean its a racist salute.

Here's something you may not realize. When people can get something from you as in the case where you work for them or play for their club they will tolerate you.

Their behaviour towards you does not say anything about what they feel about others just like you and even you yourself.

Added to the fact that comparing Veron, Salas and Crespo to to dark-skinned afican people is a real stetch
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 22, 2005, 01:29:00 PM
i hear you on d booing part, but remember manfirdini and others on Lazio team now not "white" ... Veron, Crespo and Salas are not considered white either and they all played for Lazio.

We can go back n forth over the crowd, buh d thread was started becase of his salute.... and d salute might mean support for fascism but does not mean its a racist salute.
 


yeah right. you really stretching now....go read up on facism in Italy and you probably would not have the same views. Anyhow, I done give my views on the topic...but I had to touch on one last thing...
Crespo...not white? hmmmm...doh get tie up

Salas is Indian and white (he has openly said it) so I give you dat, Veron is supposedly black and white mix (jury still out on dat, since noone can prove it)...but Crespo is a white boy. Nowhere on de planet is he not white....I'd like to know how you come up with that. If ah wrong...cool, but dat one suprise me
carry on
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: vibetrini on December 22, 2005, 02:39:25 PM
aight this could keep goin like a tug-of-war ... d point about comparing salas and dem to darker-skinned people in the eyes of those who are racist is well taken... d point i was makin was that the Lazio board aint racist as far as i see it... many fans might be racist, but not all of us. And that we can keep speculating whether Di Canio is racist or not, but we won't know 100% for sure unless d man share a heart with one of us.



Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 22, 2005, 03:23:39 PM
aight this could keep goin like a tug-of-war ... d point about comparing salas and dem to darker-skinned people in the eyes of those who are racist is well taken... d point i was makin was that the Lazio board aint racist as far as i see it... many fans might be racist, but not all of us. And that we can keep speculating whether Di Canio is racist or not, but we won't know 100% for sure unless d man share a heart with one of us.

whether Di Canio is a racist or not is almost beside the point. If you can't see that...well lewwe drop dis one and jes have a  :beermug: :beermug:

peace bredda
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: TriniItalian on December 22, 2005, 10:10:10 PM


ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm

i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
A Swastika is a form of the cross i'm sure there're religions that woulda still use it if it wasn't banned in a way I don't feel your point bout Mussolini that have nothing to do with hate is like the Cubans all they quarrel bout Castro none of them want nothing else Italy will always be racist because unlke the civilisations before them they didn't assimilate many black people or many of the arabs and such so is only white people they know nothing but god could change the people unless they personally want to change if yuh ever went italy and spain to real messed up with that
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Teflon Don on December 22, 2005, 10:28:34 PM
Ok i was wrong, when i saw it on tv the first time i was jus like ok whatever d man jus doin his lil roman thing....but now that ah see these pics i agree with what u guys r saying.

(http://freeuploader.com/view.php/85505.bmp)

(http://www.freeuploader.com/view.php/85507.jpg)
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Trinimassive on December 22, 2005, 10:33:57 PM
Interesting thread. Di Canio assness exposing some fellas boy.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Grande on December 23, 2005, 12:35:45 AM
Hislop Wants Di Canio To Be Punished
sportinglife.com


Shaka Hislop has called on FIFA to throw the book at his former West Ham team-mate Paolo Di Canio as punishment for his refusal to stop making fascist salutes.

World football's governing body have launched an investigation into Di Canio's behaviour after he was punished by Italian authorities for making extremist right-wing gestures during Lazio's match with Livorno.

Di Canio was at the centre of another storm at the weekend when he was alleged to have made a similar raised-arm salute after being substituted in Lazio's 1-1 draw with Juventus.

He has been banned for one Serie A match and fined £6,775 by the Italian Football Federation (FIGC), but FIFA and their president Sepp Blatter are considering further punishment against the 37-year-old, which Hislop would give his full support.

"To see it happen shook me up a little bit," said Hislop, who played with Di Canio at Upton Park between 1999 and 2002.

"We all knew Paolo was a little bit eccentric. He was a character and football needs those characters."

But, said Hislop: "I would like to see him punished very strongly to the letter of the law.

"If this is what Sepp Blatter recommends and the powers that be agree, then so be it. What comes of Paolo and his career really doesn't have any concern to me any more."

Speaking on BBC Radio Five Live, Hislop added: "The way he's gone about defending himself...I've absolutely no sympathy with what punishment may come about, or what sanctions he may face.

"He's certainly not going to get much sympathy from me."

FIFA have the power to provisionally suspend Di Canio, whose behaviour has drawn a mixed reaction in Italy.

The player himself is adamant he has committed no offence, and said of his domestic one-game ban: "This is a political sentence and it is unjust.

"My salute dates back to ancient Rome and expresses a sense of being a part of something, it has nothing to do with a racist ideology.

"I am ready to do it again."

Lazio president Claudio Lotito defended his player and said: "His gesture was not political and it has been misinterpreted."

But FIFA have asked the FIGC to submit a file on the issue, and it is now their say as to whether Di Canio's gestures have violated their code of ethics, which came into force last year.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Themanfriday on December 23, 2005, 01:26:11 AM
Throw the whole book at him
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 23, 2005, 07:16:48 AM


ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm

i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.

A Swastika is a form of the cross i'm sure there're religions that woulda still use it if it wasn't banned in a way I don't feel your point bout Mussolini that have nothing to do with hate is like the Cubans all they quarrel bout Castro none of them want nothing else Italy will always be racist because unlke the civilisations before them they didn't assimilate many black people or many of the arabs and such so is only white people they know nothing but god could change the people unless they personally want to change if yuh ever went italy and spain to real messed up with that

dread...you really need to educate yourself. First of all, we are essentially agreeing on the swastika issue. it has an ancient meaning that is not hateful...but to use it today would land you in trouble. And in case you did not know...the stiff arm salute is also banned all over Europe..that is why I compared it to the swastika.

Next...comparing Mussolini to Castro is ridiculous. Mussulini was a dictator who sided with Hitler  in WW II and was a racist, warmongering, facist killer. to have his tatoo is most likely a strong political statement of fascist ultra right wing beliefs...it is almost akin to having a tattoo of Hitler. Castro...though poitically controversial and hated/loved in equal measure amongst Cubans, will not go down in history quite like our dearest Adolf  and Benito

Ancient Rome was one of the most assimilated cultures and there were many blacks an arabs who lived there in peace. I don't think you know what you're talking about. I've also been all over Europe and the Spaniards are generally open (even after almost 700 years of dominance by the moors)...a little moreso than Italians. What happens in the stadia is not typical to waht you feel walking down the streets

no disrespect. i jes cyah agree with what you saying...

why am I still responding to this thread ???
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: JDB on December 23, 2005, 07:36:53 AM
dread...you really need to educate yourself. First of all, we are essentially agreeing on the swastika issue. it has an ancient meaning that is not hateful...but to use it today would land you in trouble. And in case you did not know...the stiff arm salute is also banned all over Europe..that is why I compared it to the swastika.

Not to disagree with your entire point Fihlo but the swastika is a religious symbol that is still in use in India even till today. It is easy for them because they have no negative significance attached to it over there. the number of different cultures that use it has deccreased tremendously but it is a genuine religious symbol for those that do use it and they have no double meaning behind it.

They are somewhat aware of its significance in the west however hence you don't see Hindus anywhere in the west using it, certainly not in public forums.

A good example of people being conscious of a symbol or act's sigficance is Kipling.

He used the swastika on the cover of all his books as he was influenced by eastern culture. When Nazism rose to prominence however he stopped. Now he was using it before the Nazis, for a completely different reason, but was responsible enough to realize that the new meaning of the symbol precluded its further use.

I guess he had a weak spine.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Filho on December 23, 2005, 07:44:34 AM
dread...you really need to educate yourself. First of all, we are essentially agreeing on the swastika issue. it has an ancient meaning that is not hateful...but to use it today would land you in trouble. And in case you did not know...the stiff arm salute is also banned all over Europe..that is why I compared it to the swastika.

Not to disagree with your entire point Fihlo but the swastika is a religious symbol that is still in use in India even till today. It is easy for them because they have no negative significance attached to it over there. the number of different cultures that use it has deccreased tremendously but it is a genuine religious symbol for those that do use it and they have no double meaning behind it.

They are somewhat aware of its significance in the west however hence you don't see Hindus anywhere in the west using it, certainly not in public forums.

A good example of people being conscious of a symbol or act's sigficance is Kipling.

He used the swastika on the cover of all his books as he was influenced by eastern culture. When Nazism rose to prominence however he stopped. Now he was using it before the Nazis, for a completely different reason, but was responsible enough to realize that the new meaning of the symbol precluded its further use.

I guess he had a weak spine.


JDB..we are actually agreeing, not disagreeing. I should have made it more clear but I meant using the swastika (or the stiff arm salute) in a forum where it is generally interpreted as offensive and I was speaking more specifically about Europe where it is banned in public.

I think we are on the same wavelength
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: dumpalewie on December 23, 2005, 05:34:04 PM
I can't believe men on here defending this stupidness.

Could only be a case of talking for talking sake.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: Disgruntled_Trini on December 23, 2005, 06:05:06 PM
I'm a fascist, but not racist, says Di Canio


Controversial Italian footballer Paolo Di Canio, who has caused a Serie A storm for making Nazi salutes, admitted that he was a fascist, but not a racist.

The Lazio skipper is appealing against a one-match suspension for making the gesture last weekend during the match against Juventus.

He had made a similar gesture the previous week against Livorno and was fined 10,000 euros for giving the salute in the Rome derby in March.

"I am a fascist, but not racist," insisted the 37-year-old.

"I gave the salute to my supporters who share my ideas. The arm raised is not to incite violence or even racial hatred."

Di Canio has summoned the services of a lawyer Gabriele Bordoni, a supporter of the club and a sympathiser of the extreme right.
Title: Re: Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
Post by: Tenorsaw on December 23, 2005, 06:34:42 PM
I ain't go lie.  Ah hoping Spain get knocked out first round for they pathetic punitive measures against racism.  Keep fining dem pocket change, as if that go solve the problem.  They need to start prosecuting people like in England.
Title: Re: Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
Post by: Disgruntled_Trini on December 23, 2005, 07:02:34 PM
I am of the firm belief that FIFA and it's related entites encourage racism.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: pioneertrini on December 24, 2005, 07:49:06 AM
at the end of the day wat u go do, the nazis took signs and symbols from all over the world from all religions. if u start to clamp every1 for so much ah ting then ya basically a nazi. italy has probs wid racism in genral just like spain and alot of countries and its stupid specially as alot of there people are ethnicly mix but dont know there history. is ah loop hole ting di man from friggin rome playin in rome he do a roman salute wether its meant racists or not wat u go do. and man say remember italy and the nazis was allies in the war well its americans who started the nazi party member that they all linked i kno this is a football forum but racists men killin thousands of people and its ok but 1 friggin footballer make a sign and people does be in upraw.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: pioneertrini on December 24, 2005, 11:05:04 AM
na bredrin u get mi wrong, but i didnt write it out right sorry. wat im sayin is if ah man do somting that  could have 2 meanin dont jump all over di man when it have people a million times worse then it come like u pickin which 1 to punish while other tings go unpunished and in dat sense is a nazi ting. like i said this is a football forum so im obviously not talkin about people on here. and as for your example the DA and the whole of the govement sctucture is racists, prejudice etc etc. so yes dem is friggin nazi too, is like u have 1 jackass tellin ah nex man he is a jackass, to di end of the day both of dem is di same ting and should be dealt wid if u see where im comming from. but i do believe every1 has a right to there opinion, i know racist people and thier views and there r som who r plain stupid and some that have reasoning behind what they belive. its where those views take u thats the prob, i have no problem wid som1 hating my race thats dem and i feel sorry for dem, but if they then do me somting dats the when tings change. if people feel strongly about it use your brain dont ask about di canio ask y is there racism there y r they allowed in the stadium y does it go unpunished etc, yuh tryin to kill a tree by choping its branches it doesnt work. this post isnt directed at u tho bro.
Title: Re: Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
Post by: RGarcia on December 24, 2005, 03:59:33 PM
i realize like racism is beginning to be more widespread in europe now not that it has not been their before but its more blatant in football today.
Title: Re: Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
Post by: pioneertrini on December 24, 2005, 08:27:20 PM
na np i read it bak and it sounded kinda wrong too  :-\
Title: Racism in football Thread.
Post by: truetrini on January 02, 2006, 05:50:14 PM
Racism in football: FIFA demands file on Di Canio case

 Zurich, 22 December 2005  -  FIFA has asked the Italian football association to submit its file on the case involving the player, Paolo Di Canio, to world football's governing body. Di Canio made right-wing extremist gestures during a match between his club, SS Lazio, and Livorno on 11 December 2005 and the Italian football association subsequently suspended him for one match and imposed a fine. FIFA now wishes to determine the extent to which Di Canio's racist gestures violated not only the FIFA Code of Ethics, which came into force in 2004, but also the relevant disciplinary provisions. 
At his end-of-year media conference at FIFA headquarters in Zurich on 20 December 2005, FIFA President Joseph S. Blatter announced a stricter and more unified procedure against racism and discrimination. He also stated that FIFA intended to pass regulations in this regard, in cooperation with the confederations and associations, in January 2006. UEFA president and FIFA vice-president Lennart Johansson, who has been in regular telephone contact with Blatter in recent days, has pledged his full support for this initiative.

Johansson also agreed with the FIFA President that the FIFA Executive Committee should deal with the question of compensation for teams who release players for the World Cup or other international matches at its next meeting on 17-18 March 2006. During the above-mentioned media conference, Blatter had once again stressed that it was not FIFA that should directly compensate clubs, but rather the qualified associations who should pay clubs a proportion of their prize money for releasing players.  This, however, is a question of keeping things in perspective. "The world would be turned upside down if a poor association had to pay the wages of a well-paid player from a rich club," said Blatter.

FIFA's prize money fund for the 2006 FIFA World Cup™ totals CHF 332 million. Advance payments totalling 32 million (one million for each association taking part) will be made as a contribution towards preparing the finalist teams. Each association will receive CHF 2 million per match in the first round and can thus rely on a guaranteed income of at least CHF 7 million. The winners of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany™ will take home prize money amounting to CHF 24.5 million. The runners-up will pocket CHF 22.5 million, while the teams coming third and fourth will each receive CHF 21.5 million.

 

Further information from:
FIFA Media Department
media@fifa.org

Title: Lazio's Di Canio promises to stop saluting
Post by: Tallman on January 04, 2006, 06:41:09 AM
Lazio's Di Canio promises to stop saluting
Reuters


Lazio striker Paolo Di Canio has promised to stop displaying the fascist salute to his supporters.

Di Canio, who has twice been fined for the straight-arm gesture, told a radio station in Rome he would cease his 'Roman salute' to the fans in order to protect the club.

'During the Christmas break I have had time to reflect and I have decided to put the good of Lazio before my interests,' said the former West Ham United striker.

'For the moment I will avoid certain displays in public, situations which are so devilish for some people,' he said.

'But I will continue my battle for liberty in other ways, with he help of the lawyers who assist me,' said Di Canio.

The 37-year-old had previously vowed to continue with the salute despite receiving a one-match ban last month.

Di Canio could face another fine and ban when soccer authorities meet later this month to decide on the punishment for the salute he gave in a Serie A match at Livorno.

He was fined 10,000 euros ($12,070) and banned for one game after making the gesture in a home match against Juventus.

Three supporters groups have opened a bank account for donations to pay Di Canio's fine, Italian media have reported.

The striker, who has also played in Scotland with Celtic and for Italian clubs Juventus and AC Milan, first made the salute in the Rome derby last season - for which he was fined.

He has made no secret of his admiration for Italy's wartime fascist leader Benito Mussolini and has the word 'Dux', Latin for 'Duce', Mussolini's moniker, tattooed on his arm.

The forward also said that he was ready to extend his contract with Lazio beyond this season.

'I'm certainly not going to quit playing because I have a mission to complete here. I will only leave Lazio when the club decides that,' he added.
Title: Re: Racism in football: FIFA demands file on Di Canio case
Post by: truetrini on January 04, 2006, 06:58:08 AM
yeah boy de canio say he is a fascist and not a racist.  what an asshole!  like if fascism doh embrace racism as one of its tenets!
Title: Re: Racism in football: FIFA demands file on Di Canio case
Post by: Pompey on January 04, 2006, 08:20:40 AM
on 20 December 2005, FIFA President Joseph S. Blatter announced a stricter and more unified procedure against racism and discrimination.

so does that mean the next time the Spanish fans taunt our black players and their manager makes disgusting remarks about frances top player FIFA will act.

Maybe next time they will get a 50euro fine and be told to stand in the corner for half an hour. No chance of them being banned from a major competition which is what should have happened.
Title: Arsenal's Henry on racism in football
Post by: Girl Warrior on January 10, 2006, 12:49:57 AM
Upon reading this article, my thoughts automatically went to Brent Sancho, who unfortunately had racist comments thrown his way by two men in 2003. Athough it didn't take place on the pitch we still have to ask ourselves, what the hell were they thinking?.

I hope that Thierry Henry is successful in his fight to eradicate racism in football.

http://www.time.com/time/europe/hero2005/henry.html

Title: Re: Arsenal's Henry on racism in football
Post by: pioneertrini on January 10, 2006, 01:00:19 AM
yep but for racism to be kicked out of football it has to be kicked out of society, because for alot of countrie foorball is a big part of the culture.
Title: Eto'o and government want tough action on racism
Post by: Bally on March 01, 2006, 12:38:34 PM
Eto'o and government want tough action on racism
 
(Updates with government appeal for higher fine for Zaragoza)

MADRID, March 1 (Reuters) - The Spanish government's Anti-violence Commission have joined Samuel Eto'o in calling for tougher punishments for racist abuse after the Barcelona striker was insulted by fans in a league match against Real Zaragoza.

"We need exemplary punishments," the Cameroon international told a news conference on Wednesday. "Maybe it would make people think again if they closed the Zaragoza stadium for a year and made them play all their matches away from home."

ADVERTISEMENT
 
 
Eto'o tried to leave the pitch during last Saturday's match having been targeted for racial abuse by Zaragoza fans, but Barca coach Frank Rijkaard persuaded him to play on.

"It wasn't just a few fans, it was practically the whole stadium," Eto'o said. "I decided to stop playing because they were attacking me because of my colour.

"What made me go back was the boss telling me that the best way to shut them up was to beat them. That is the only thing that made me change my mind.

"I don't know whether I was right or not to carry on playing, but I just tried to put what had happened out of my mind."

Barca scored two goals in the remaining 11 minutes of the game, the second of which was set up by Eto'o.

Zaragoza were fined 9,000 euros ($10,750) by the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) for the incident, but the government-run Anti-violence Commission said in a statement on Wednesday the punishment was insufficient.

The Commission plans to appeal for a higher fine more in accordance with the seriousness of the offence.

In a clear move to get both clubs and football authorities to take a tougher stance against the problem, the Commission reminded them of the protocol they signed in which they pledged to combat racism.

They also informed the RFEF that referees had the power to abandon games in the face of serious incidents of racism.

Eto'o said that financial punishments for the clubs alone were unlikely to provide the solution.

"If it is just the clubs that are fined, then people know they can get away with it. We need to work together to find the answers, the law and the legal system can help deal with the problem too."

Eto'o was asked why he had not made a similar condemnation of the actions of his former coach Luis Aragones who made disparaging remarks about French striker Thierry Henry to his Arsenal colleague Jose Antonio Reyes during a Spanish team training session in October 2004.

"A guy like Luis isn't racist," Eto'o replied. "He chose the wrong words and comments like his usually remain in the dressing room."



Updated on Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006 1:07 pm EST

 
 
Title: Re: Eto'o and government want tough action on racism
Post by: Kingk on March 01, 2006, 12:43:14 PM
I did not have to read further than this

"We need exemplary punishments," the Cameroon international told a news conference on Wednesday. "Maybe it would make people think again if they closed the Zaragoza stadium for a year and made them play all their matches away from home."  

dem 600 euros ent doin it

not happenein, dem dont care dey jus talking to make the rest of the world think they care
Title: Re: Eto'o and government want tough action on racism
Post by: Peong on March 01, 2006, 02:58:37 PM
dem 600 euros ent doin it

EU$9000

I find Eto'o's comments about Aragones interesting.  I thought he would condemn him too, but he don't think Aragones is racist.
Title: Re: Eto'o and government want tough action on racism
Post by: FF on March 01, 2006, 03:00:11 PM
dem 600 euros ent doin it

EU$9000

I find Eto'o's comments about Aragones interesting.  I thought he would condemn him too, but he don't think Aragones is racist.


Aragones is de man who take care of him when he first came to Spain.... He is a father-figure to Eto'o... I believe he live in de man house for a while all kinda ting....

I am sure Eto'o had some private words with him about the incident...
Title: FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
Post by: Bally on March 16, 2006, 05:48:59 PM
FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
 
 
 ZURICH, Switzerland (AP) - FIFA passed anti-racism legislation Thursday that could exclude teams for up to two years for violations.


 
Under the rules passed by the world governing body's executive committee, teams would see three points deducted for a first offense, six for a second and relegation for further violations.

Teams could also be disqualified from competitions, and member associations could be excluded for up to two years.

"The new rules take effect essentially as soon as we can notify the associations by way of a letter," FIFA spokesman Andreas Herren said. "It's not going to take a long time.

"It applies to all competitions throughout the world at any level. All matches of all types are covered."

The new rules were passed a day after the European Parliament adopted a declaration calling for soccer clubs whose fans or players commit racist offenses to be excluded from competitions.

Earlier this month, Barcelona's Cameroon striker, Samuel Eto'o, was subjected to racist taunts by fans.

Spain coach Luis Aragones brought the issue to the forefront 17 months ago when he used racist language to describe Arsenal striker Thierry Henry.

 
Title: Re: FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
Post by: oconnorg on March 16, 2006, 05:53:20 PM
Just in time too.. AWATT just launched ARU - Anti Racism Unit.. See here

http://www.socawarriorssc.com/swonline/smf/index.php?topic=12597.0

 ;D


But on a serious note.. what FIFA did was a good thing.. this racism shit has to be stamped oput some how..
Title: Re: FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
Post by: skins on March 16, 2006, 06:21:31 PM
This is great news.... Does this rule also apply to a coach or a player making a racism comment. 
Title: Re: FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
Post by: Jefferz on March 16, 2006, 07:20:51 PM
GOOD.
Title: Re: FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
Post by: jai john on March 17, 2006, 09:48:35 AM
And what of the spanish coach who is still coaching Spain ? FIFA again boy .....lock de gate after de warner, oh sorry, horse has bolted !
Title: Re: FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
Post by: Trinimassive on March 17, 2006, 09:54:57 AM
Jai John how about typical UEFA. They didn't have to wait for FIFA to take action. That racist organization coulda stamp that out on they own....after all it is Europe.

Allyuh does only talk bout FIFA FIFA.....the main problem is UEFA. That problem doh happen to that extent anywhere near liike in Europe. Not CONCACAF, CONMEBOL not AFRICA or ASIA.

So yuh would think UEFA woulda take the forefront.

STEUPS.

FIFA make ah good move.
Title: most racist country
Post by: legal alien on March 24, 2006, 08:28:37 PM
with all this issue of racism in soccer, i was wondering , just out of sheer curiosity,which country you think would black soccer players be most uncomfortable? due to racism on/off the field? 
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: NYtriniwhiteboy.. on March 24, 2006, 08:32:59 PM
Italy!!!!!
England was real bad before but they have made great improvements...rite now i hadda go with Italy
I tink turkey not easy either...buh i not sure
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Trini Madness on March 24, 2006, 08:41:26 PM
yea i have to go with italy also
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kingman on March 24, 2006, 09:10:16 PM
with all this issue of racism in soccer, i was wondering , just out of sheer curiosity,which country you think would black soccer players be most uncomfortable? due to racism on/off the field? 

Spain. Without a doubt!

Kingman
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Trini _2022 on March 24, 2006, 09:12:48 PM
Italy!!!!!
England was real bad before but they have made great improvements...rite now i hadda go with Italy
I tink turkey not easy either...buh i not sure

nope i think its the greece
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: trinidad badboy on March 24, 2006, 09:53:13 PM


Italy by farr......
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Daft Trini on March 24, 2006, 09:53:26 PM
Italy for real
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Jefferz on March 24, 2006, 10:11:38 PM
Italy!!!!!
England was real bad before but they have made great improvements...rite now i hadda go with Italy
I tink turkey not easy either...buh i not sure

nope i think its the greece

yuh referin tuh de greek olympic coach that made those idiotic remarks about black athletes?


i havent really picked up on Greeks being particularly racial... Id also say the Italians...


The Turks... yea they aint easy... Galatasaray aka HELL.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: oconnorg on March 24, 2006, 11:02:29 PM
nope i think its the greece
well, I will say that the Greek club that Kevin Nelson plays for in Melbourne, Australia is REAL bad.
check here (http://www.socawarriorssc.com/swonline/smf/index.php?topic=12597.msg122134#msg122134)

I concurr.. Allot of the South Melborne greek fans are the pits..
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: davidephraim on March 25, 2006, 12:07:11 AM
Italy, Spain, Greece, Argentina. I hate Italy and Argentina the worst wid spain comin in 3rd.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: JayTheWrecker on March 25, 2006, 01:47:49 AM
Serbia
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: rastafari on March 25, 2006, 06:30:52 AM
South Africa.

I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.

Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.

Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Blue on March 25, 2006, 06:46:51 AM
South Africa.

I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.

Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.

Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

In South Africa it is a predominantly black sport. Whites play rugby.

Just like how in Trinidad football and cricket are predominantly divided along racial lines
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: rastafari on March 25, 2006, 06:54:25 AM
South Africa.

I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.

Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.

Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

In South Africa it is a predominantly black sport. Whites play rugby.

Just like how in Trinidad football and cricket are predominantly divided along racial lines

My friend i understand that, but there is know such thing as a white, black, chinee or indian sport.

By thinking this way it creates division.

It is just the mentality that has to change.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Blue on March 25, 2006, 07:05:48 AM
South Africa.

I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.

Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.

Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

In South Africa it is a predominantly black sport. Whites play rugby.

Just like how in Trinidad football and cricket are predominantly divided along racial lines

My friend i understand that, but there is know such thing as a white, black, chinee or indian sport.

By thinking this way it creates division.

It is just the mentality that has to change.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

agreed
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Brej on March 25, 2006, 07:57:10 AM
italy an spain reel bad
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 25, 2006, 09:21:00 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: FLi ! on March 25, 2006, 09:29:41 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

my sentiments exactly..
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Blue on March 25, 2006, 09:30:31 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Good point  :applause:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: JDB on March 25, 2006, 09:56:26 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Agreed.

Just the title of this thread alone makes no sense. How do you measure racism and more importantly who here has taking an objective measure of these places to determine "the most racist country".

But say what is a rum shop discussion so I wouldn't take it too seriously. What I like the most is how everybody have a different answer. It remind of the story about the six blind men an the elephant.

Racism/prejudice is one beast and it is everywhere, probably in equal measure.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 25, 2006, 10:08:02 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Filho, are you isolating your response to football or just racism in general?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: davidephraim on March 25, 2006, 10:45:30 AM
because i understood it to be within football. As pointman is pointing out. :devil:  My point is  :rotfl:, I could have misunderstood the post but since this is a football forum I tend to put a football bias on all subjects.  Using our own country's foolisness as an example, as with some other places like Brasil come football day everybody drunk with football pride enough to put their differences away or rather we grab hold of different differences, football diferences. Yorke vs Latapy... :devil:  Wha tallest can do and wha Lara cya do :rotfl:  At Carnival time we tend to do the same. There are however some places that dont even turn it off for football like some of these places that were mentioned. Too not expose them even within thought is to in some way accept the ultra-disregard (versus the sheltered disregard) for those that are different but still support and pay their wages even. All Nationalities share the racism card but Man-kind unfortunately seem to appreciate the soft sell versus the blunt truth. My example is the difference between Bill Clinton & George Bush...  Same shit, different sell.   Everyone love to hate George Bush however Clinton was viewed as the MAN.  Bush would say "Ah doh like allyuh" - Clinton would say "Ah doh like allyuh but can't we all just get along"

 I still believe that the Italian Authority and the courtrymen who bought into the foolishness are probably the most blatant haters around the world. This is my biased judgement and I make it on the grounds of deeds passed.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Blue on March 25, 2006, 10:50:11 AM
because i understood it to be within football. As pointman is pointing out. :devil:  My point is  :rotfl:, I could have misunderstood the post but since this is a football forum I tend to put a football bias on all subjects.  Using our own country's foolisness as an example, as with some other places like Brasil come football day everybody drunk with football pride enough to put their differences away or rather we grab hold of different differences, football diferences. Yorke vs Latapy... :devil:  Wha tallest can do and wha Lara cya do :rotfl:  At Carnival time we tend to do the same. There are however some places that dont even turn it off for football like some of these places that were mentioned. Too not expose them even within thought is to in some way accept the ultra-disregard (versus the sheltered disregard) for those that are different but still support and pay their wages even. All Nationalities share the racism card but Man-kind unfortunately seem to appreciate the soft sell versus the blunt truth. My example is the difference between Bill Clinton & George Bush...  Same shit, different sell.   Everyone love to hate George Bush however Clinton was viewed as the MAN.  Bush would say "Ah doh like allyuh" - Clinton would say "Ah doh like allyuh but can't we all just get along"

 I still believe that the Italian Authority and the courtrymen who bought into the foolishness are probably the most blatant haters around the world. This is my biased judgement and I make it on the grounds of deeds passed.

Show of hands - anyone been to an Italian football match. Or Spanish? Or Turkish? Or know anyone that's been and experienced racism?  ::)
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: morvant on March 25, 2006, 10:52:34 AM
i've been to sigonella and experienced racism
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Blue on March 25, 2006, 10:57:10 AM
i've been to sigonella and experienced racism


Who plays in Sigonella?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: morvant on March 25, 2006, 11:03:20 AM
i've been to sigonella and experienced racism


Who plays in Sigonella?

yuh say italy so ah telling yuh when i went to sig and was at some local football game men was watching meh funny and i could feel de (how could i say this in english) vibes on meh neck.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Augi on March 25, 2006, 11:06:17 AM
Will have to be italy
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: davidephraim on March 25, 2006, 11:13:38 AM


 I still believe that the Italian Authority and the courtrymen who bought into the foolishness are probably the most blatant haters around the world. This is my biased judgement and I make it on the grounds of deeds passed.
Quote

Show of hands - anyone been to an Italian football match. Or Spanish? Or Turkish? Or know anyone that's been and experienced racism?  ::)
Quote

This statement was not based on football this was just as a country. On a soccer note I happen to dislike Argentina the most.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Jumbie on March 25, 2006, 11:14:47 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.

Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 25, 2006, 11:44:40 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Good point but looking at the origninal question I think it was supposed to be a football racism question

with all this issue of racism in soccer, i was wondering , just out of sheer curiosity,which country you think would black soccer players be most uncomfortable? due to racism on/off the field?

.......but the part about on/off the field sorta broadened it and made it unclear......football or not, it is impossible to measure racism, and most of us can only go off what we hear in the press......If I had to guess which country it would be most uncomfortable for a black player just based on the press, I'd have to say Spain & Italy. But I could imagine it to be difficult in Eastern Europe as well (but news coming out of those leagues is alot more limited)
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Trinimassive on March 25, 2006, 11:48:45 AM
Italy, Spain, Greece, Argentina. I hate Italy and Argentina the worst wid spain comin in 3rd.

I would concur with all the countries yuh name there. Some fellas asking how yuh know the country racist yuh ever been there...etc.

Many of the countries named throughout this thread have a racist past and don't have the kind of laws to help stamp out racism.  

And yes Brazil does have problems...more of an Superior vs Inferior population...Not seen as much as racist because many "Black" Brazilians don't even consider themselves Black. Well until they go other countries where they get called Black like in the US.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 25, 2006, 11:57:14 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.



I think it's safe to say that every country will have a different racial outlook on how Black folks are viewed and treated based on a number of different factors...history  being the main factor.

Brazil's racial climate is different from T&T's which is different from the US which is different from Mexico etc, etc. In terms of football, I don't think a Black player will have the same experience playing in Brazil as in Spain or Italy. At the same token outside of football, Blacks in Brazil have a very difficult life. Money is also a MAJOR factor in how people(Blacks) are treated in most countries...if you have money yuh cool if not tuff.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Teflon Don on March 25, 2006, 02:11:22 PM
Serbia
to be honest not really...have sum black frens that play water polo out there......ITALY is by far the most racist
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: saga pinto on March 25, 2006, 02:24:32 PM
The truth is you'll find many countries with a racist side...........
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: NYtriniwhiteboy.. on March 25, 2006, 02:28:40 PM
The truth is you'll find many countries with a racist side...........
racists are everywhere...but some places they a lil more open about it than others...
Up here in upstate new york first question a couple pple from de area ask me wen i said i from Trinidad is how i make out with all de black pple...i does hadda ask if thats a serious question...cuz i does jus be in shock
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 25, 2006, 03:55:40 PM
eastern europe and russia supposed to be real bad. i eh going there to find out though.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: warmonga on March 25, 2006, 06:30:17 PM
I hear nuff man saying Italy ..yet still dey praying for  Italy to beat USA?.. Dat means dey promoting Racialism!!!!!!!! but wah this fadda????
warmonga
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: fishs on March 26, 2006, 02:17:06 AM
eastern europe and russia supposed to be real bad. i eh going there to find out though.

Nah, it eh bad fuh de genuine black man. Is de darker white people that in trouble in Russia, like de kazahks, Azeris , Georgians etc, dey skin lil darker than de white white Russians an dey does actually call them " Blackies". Go figure , white people calling white people black.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: marcel on March 27, 2006, 03:44:36 AM

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.


Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pompey on March 27, 2006, 05:15:54 AM

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.


One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.

Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent  video, there are no white people to be seen.

Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pompey on March 27, 2006, 05:20:00 AM
to answer the question though, if you look at the recent history of Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia etc, there has been attempted "Ethnic Cleansing" so it would be fair to say that the most racist countries are down there, however, I think this may be directed more intenally than externally.

However, i do recall English Black players being taunted in an Eastern European country.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: marcel on March 27, 2006, 05:45:49 AM

yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......

but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.

its peanuts compared to the usa.

Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 06:06:14 AM

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.


One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.

Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent  video, there are no white people to be seen.

Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?

your hip hop example simply isn't true...but it is kinda funny
Your sentiments about America cannot be denied though. The country has racist problems, but as a nation it is relatively open about it and there are a lot of people and organizations with political clout who work to stamp it out, with varying degrees of success. I believe that the one truth about racism in the US is...white people think there less than there really is...and black people think there more than there really is. But the US also seems more racist because Americans like to talk about it...always...the media is seems to be always uncovering the issue somewhere. If you look for it..you will find it. And America is always lookign for it, unlike most European nations. I do not think the average white American is less enlightened than the average white Brit...Brits and Europeans as a whole tend to be less vocal in their racism. And like England, you won't really find it in sports arenas...in fact, hte US is way ahead of England on that score....that says nothing to me about racism in actually society, but some seem to like to use that as ane xample...so I broought it up. I have been here for 13 years and the only time I have seen anything explicity racist was from a German tourist....well....I guess he could have been Austrian or Swiss German  ;)
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 06:26:51 AM

yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......

but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.

its peanuts compared to the usa.



you are so clearly anti US you are starting to sound irrational....ethnic cleansing in Serbia is peanuts to racism in the US today?
A Klu Klux clan rally is pretty disgusting, but it has lost its menace and happens less and less...

Holland seems like a very racially open country. I have a cousine who lives in Amsterdam and loves it and she is black. But let's be honest..in most of continental Europe today, the treatment of Jews, Gypsies and Arabs is as horrendous. You may find a klu klux rally here and there in the US, but you will find a neo nazi skin-head rally every week in your friendly neighborhood football stadium all over continental Europe...including Holland. In many cases (not all) blacks face equal amounts of racism in Europe as in the US, but one can argue that our numbers are so few, we are often not seen as a real threat on the landscape......once blacks become a large enough part of the population, you see changing attitudes...like France...very open and racially-integrated by European standards...yet a right-wing, anti-immigration political party has come close to winning general elections there last time around...my point is, it is impossible to actually measure the degrees of racism. Europeans should not point fingers either...they ahve their own dirty laundry to deal with.....Anyway, we could argue for eternity...and we would probably still all be right to some degree...
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pompey on March 27, 2006, 06:31:58 AM

the usa!

i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.

but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.


One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.

Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent  video, there are no white people to be seen.

Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?

your hip hop example simply isn't true...but it is kinda funny
Your sentiments about America cannot be denied though. The country has racist problems, but as a nation it is relatively open about it and there are a lot of people and organizations with political clout who work to stamp it out, with varying degrees of success. I believe that the one truth about racism in the US is...white people think there less than there really is...and black people think there more than there really is. But the US also seems more racist because Americans like to talk about it...always...the media is seems to be always uncovering the issue somewhere. If you look for it..you will find it. And America is always lookign for it, unlike most European nations. I do not think the average white American is less enlightened than the average white Brit...Brits and Europeans as a whole tend to be less vocal in their racism. And like England, you won't really find it in sports arenas...in fact, hte US is way ahead of England on that score....that says nothing to me about racism in actually society, but some seem to like to use that as ane xample...so I broought it up. I have been here for 13 years and the only time I have seen anything explicity racist was from a German tourist....well....I guess he could have been Austrian or Swiss German  ;)

the Hip Hop example was meant to be fairly light hearted, but that is the impression that i get of the states and certaily the impression I got of New York.

But then again, most of my impressions of the States come from MTV and Hollywood so i am very impressed by the way some hip hop artists can also Box, fight aliens, make geeks more attractive to women and save Los Angeles from drug barons ably assisted by a stand up comedian. By the way, where is Belle Aire? ;D
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Jayerson on March 27, 2006, 06:42:56 AM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....

Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.



From what I've read, it's more of a class thing in Brazil and also brothers and sisters of the same parents are sometimes classed in different racial categories.

As far as I know, in football terms, Italy,Spain and Argentina. As you can see these countries are very similar as most Argentines are of Spanish and Italian decent. Also these countries, although many attempts have been made to hide it, have had a signifcant black presence in the past.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pompey on March 27, 2006, 06:57:48 AM

yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......

but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.

its peanuts compared to the usa.



you are so clearly anti US you are starting to sound irrational....ethnic cleansing in Serbia is peanuts to racism in the US today?
A Klu Klux clan rally is pretty disgusting, but it has lost its menace and happens less and less...

Holland seems like a very racially open country. I have a cousine who lives in Amsterdam and loves it and she is black. But let's be honest..in most of continental Europe today, the treatment of Jews, Gypsies and Arabs is as horrendous. You may find a klu klux rally here and there in the US, but you will find a neo nazi skin-head rally every week in your friendly neighborhood football stadium all over continental Europe...including Holland. In many cases (not all) blacks face equal amounts of racism in Europe as in the US, but one can argue that our numbers are so few, we are often not seen as a real threat on the landscape......once blacks become a large enough part of the population, you see changing attitudes...like France...very open and racially-integrated by European standards...yet a right-wing, anti-immigration political party has come close to winning general elections there last time around...my point is, it is impossible to actually measure the degrees of racism. Europeans should not point fingers either...they ahve their own dirty laundry to deal with.....Anyway, we could argue for eternity...and we would probably still all be right to some degree...

I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.

all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 08:35:56 AM
I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.

all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.


no harsher than you are being on Americans.....the issue is real on both sides of the pond and I don't see the point in 'measuring' who is worse than who.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pompey on March 27, 2006, 08:56:04 AM
I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.

all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.


no harsher than you are being on Americans.....the issue is real on both sides of the pond and I don't see the point in 'measuring' who is worse than who.

I've got no desire to measure or compare. I would also say that we both have problems to sort out. In europe, we have all been at war with each other for the last two thousand years so we have a lot of issues to resolve.

The knuckle dragging Neo Nazi's are not something you see on every street corner and when you do see them there are more "Anti" than "Pro" demonstrators. I'm sure the same thing applies to the KKK. By the way, I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood.  ;D
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 08:58:24 AM
I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood.  ;D

Good to know........my application should be processed more quickly now.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 09:16:45 AM
Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.



From what I've read, it's more of a class thing in Brazil and also brothers and sisters of the same parents are sometimes classed in different racial categories.

As far as I know, in football terms, Italy,Spain and Argentina. As you can see these countries are very similar as most Argentines are of Spanish and Italian decent. Also these countries, although many attempts have been made to hide it, have had a signifcant black presence in the past.

nah horse...if you use your conscience, we all know that classism is just another term for racism. Look I am NOT the utmost authority on Brazil..I think Brazilians in general really cool and I love most of the culture.  I have a large crew of Brazilian friends, all of them happen to be white and very cool...According to them....lack of racism in Brazil is a joke. They saw it every day growing up in predomianantly white areas of Sao Paulo. Some parts in southern Brazil like Porto Alegre are almost all-white, and would like to keep it that way. Let's just say a lot of 'germans' fled there after the World war II. That is how the term 'Alemao' got popular in brazil. Literally it means german and is used today to describe anyone with blond hair...Brazil does little to recognize its indigenous people and most blacks deny even having any african heritage. The gov't systematically keeps poor people uneducated by charging a 'fee' to sit pre-university entrance exams....poor bright kids do not get to go to university in Brazil as you actually have to do the exam to qualify for a scholarship. Brazil was one of the last countries on the planet to outlaw slavery. Inevitably, when you meet black people in Brazil...they are most likely going to be poor.

Look, I am painting Brazil in a poor light to make a point. The truth is, in many ways Brazil is one of the least racist societies you could come across. Socially it is very comfortable for all races in most parts of the country. Pele is reverred as a God. Most people choose not to define themselves by their race, even those who are white...but in many ways that count..education, job prospects, places to live, access to capital, etc....racism is rife in Brazil. Ask Brazilians that have actually lived there..go visit Brazil carnival and witness the segregation yourself. I saw not one black person in a Salvador carnival band...they were all outside the ropes begging for an abada (costume shirt)...I was the only black  person I saw for 4 days who was not outside the ropes...I almost couldn't believe I was in Brazil. But I am not letting my personal experience dictate how anyone should view an entire nation...I just saying that element exists
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 09:21:16 AM
I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood.  ;D

Hahahah. Actually, it's no longer necessary to be white to have an Aryan Brotherhood 'roommate'. I guess there are times when segregation is a damn good thing  ;)
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 09:59:00 AM

post of the thread
I fully agree
just watch that movie "Crash"
as far as I can acertain, it is just the tip of the iceberg

that movie crash was very entertaining, but also not realistic. Racism is way more subtle than that,.......come better than that West Coast...you make an adult assessment based on a 2hr movie ?.......not even a documentary....... a movie.........steups !!!
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: jai john on March 27, 2006, 10:13:01 AM
i've been to sigonella and experienced racism


Who plays in Sigonella?

yuh say italy so ah telling yuh when i went to sig and was at some local football game men was watching meh funny and i could feel de (how could i say this in english) vibes on meh neck.

Could be yuh funny to look at ??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 10:21:51 AM
read my post man read my post read my post AGAIN
allya miss comprhension or wha

as  I said IT IS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG

ADDENDUM: ya kno what, YOU RIGHT
you have your opinion and I have mine

I still say USA, REAL REAL bad
an you livin there!!!
an you doh see it
i see it everyday in the news
and I live in Canada

Kicker I feel you just come out fa KICKS oui :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
OR you have never travelled to OTHER countries other than the GREAT US of A
 ::) ::) ::) ::)

horse, if yuh notice I stayin' far from giving an opinion on what is the most racist country, because:

1: I think it's impossible to measure, and hence a useless & endless discussion....the issue is just too broad and should be qualified (I think the original question was limited to football)

2: As you alluded to, I am not the most travelled person, so my opinion would be based on very limited experiences........visiting a country for a short period doesn't help much either....if anything it might hurt, because it may only gives a very narrow & often skewed view....and a very limited set of experiences that can taint your perspective.

Never did I try to diminish the gravity of racism in the states......... all I'm saying is, using a movie (especially a mainstream hollywood movie), to strengthen an argument is weak.....

Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 10:33:11 AM
Never did I try to diminish the gravity of racism in the states......... all I'm saying is, using a movie (especially a mainstream hollywood movie), to strengthen an argument is weak.....
yes ya right
Because what I am really saying is that the problem is GREATER than what the movie portrays

ok......I hear what you're saying......it's just a 2hr movie though, so that's kinda obvious........
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 10:59:48 AM
Never did I try to diminish the gravity of racism in the states......... all I'm saying is, using a movie (especially a mainstream hollywood movie), to strengthen an argument is weak.....
yes ya right
Because what I am really saying is that the problem is GREATER than what the movie portrays

you still used the movie to strengthen your argument...you are saying look at Crash as a base and then multiply it by some factor. and you also used the news...sorry but the news can be sensational garbage at times just as often as it exposes the truth. you cannot equate racism in the US to a movie or what you see on the news...i am not going to completely disagree with youevery ...although racism in the US is a sociatel plague...the experience differs from individual to individual. It can be worse than Crash depicts but not necessarily. You are making some wild assumptions for someone who does not even live in the US and then want to insult someone who actually does. There are just as many minorities who will testify that they never experienced racism or (for better or worse) have never recognized it in the US. As kicker says...racism is often far more subtle than that.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: morvant on March 27, 2006, 11:17:47 AM
america so freggin racist

it have blacks from the south who doh like blacks from de north who doh like de midwest blacks who doh like de blacks from de west.

no race gets along in harmony here

maybe in new york and florida but as far as the country goes

take ah roadtrip and see fuh yuhself
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 11:33:43 AM
filho how you reach here just so
can you point out where i insulted Kicker.....

sorry if I am wrong, but this seems a bit condescending to me...

.....OR you have never travelled to OTHER countries other than the GREAT US of A
 ::) ::) ::) ::)

allya just out to PUT DONG PEOPLE with out READING people posts

please show where I put you down. I even agreed with parts of your argument  but then showed my different view and challenged your assumptions. That is how people discuss topics they are in disagreement about. But I am not sure where I put you down. Just gave my different point of view...I read your posts, maybe you should read mine.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 11:48:23 AM
filho how you reach here just so
can you point out where i insulted Kicker, please an thanks
and why you ent mention that he did NOT read my original post properly as I said it was the "TIP OF THE ICEBURG"
let me explain that saying
only about 10% of an Iceberg is visible
in other words I am inferring EXACTLY what Kicker is saying
it is MORE SUBTLE
allya ent easy

HERE IS MY ORIGINAL POST FOR YOUR PERUSAL
post of the thread
I fully agree
just watch that movie "Crash"
as far as I can acertain, it is just the tip of the iceberg

allya just out to PUSH DONG PEOPLE (http://www.islandevents.com/adtrak/out.php?url=http://www.islandevents.com/multimedia/uploads/push_down_people_-_onyan.wma) (here is ah chooon fa allya) with out READING/COMPREHENDING people posts

lol @ the push down tune..... :rotfl: That was kinda funny.

no worries about the argument. I know what you mean by saying that what was depicted in crash was the tip of the iceberg.....

that was not my point (and it surely was not my intention to bicker)...

I just would not have used that movie as an example at all, because I think it takes the "tip of the iceberg", as you say....... and turns it into a circus (afterall it's a movie primarily for entertainment purposes)...that's what I was saying and I think we understand eachother.

we cool....
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 12:01:48 PM
I have to shake ya hand as I am AMAZED that you did NOT say that the words of that CHOON had nothing to do with my comment about push dong people in this instance.
It was JUST the TITLE I was interested in.

like yuh real sensitive today boy.......men see yuh posts a lil different from what was intended and yuh start to fret like a jammette in church......re-read, no one sling any personal attacks your way......

...thanks for de tune anyways...

Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: capodetutticapi on March 27, 2006, 12:13:43 PM
it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.copycat this copycat that.AMERICA IS AH RACIST f**kKIN COUNTRY.accordin to morvant,just drive tru de states like ohio and iowa and carolina.they doh even like they own f**kkin people.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 12:14:58 PM
YOU START ting by NOT COMPREHENDING a man POST and I is de sensitive one :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
what does that make you then ???
call Palos and ask he what he does say about people who REFUSE to COMPREHEND what people are sayin in posts.

You JUST wanted to start something and NOW ya backpeddling as I ent lettin you go EASY sooooooooo!!

ALLYA RIGHT OUI
ALLYA RIGHT!!!!!
I am :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I understood yuh post, I said a long time ago........ it seems you misunderstood me.

I eh start nuttin....I just disagreed with using that movie crash as a relevant example.....it's that simple....not backpeddling.....just refraining from making this more serious than it really is....

"you not letting go" steups......wateva yes. I shoulda known from the time I said that I saw things a little differently, it woulda become a who's right and who's wrong thing.....go on breds, don't let go...

...dunno why I even bother....
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 12:16:31 PM
it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.

like who.....
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: capodetutticapi on March 27, 2006, 12:18:18 PM
it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.

like who.....
is bacchanal yuh like,yuh wuh call names.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 12:22:25 PM

is bacchanal yuh like,yuh wuh call names.


well yuh talkin' large cussing down the place........doh coward.......call names
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 12:33:23 PM
YOU START ting by NOT COMPREHENDING a man POST and I is de sensitive one :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
what does that make you then ???
call Palos and ask he what he does say about people who REFUSE to COMPREHEND what people are sayin in posts.

You JUST wanted to start something and NOW ya backpeddling as I ent lettin you go EASY sooooooooo!!

ALLYA RIGHT OUI
ALLYA RIGHT!!!!!
I am :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

you really mature dread...calm down and realize noone trying to move like an a$$ with you. I disagreed with a portion of your post, so what? Even if you believe I misinterpreted it, it doesn't justify your inability to maintain a decent dialogue without getting personal..... i understand exactly where you coming from and I agreed with some and disagreed with some...take your own advice and read my posts. horse...this is a socawarriors community...handle yuhself. is people on dis board yuh go be drinkin' beers with when we handle it in Germany...in person or in spirit  :beermug: :beermug:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 12:39:43 PM
Filho and Kicker allya playin BAD cop BAD cop or wha ???

AND by the way DONT EVER PM me again, say what ya have to say here......WE COOL ????

ok I said cool yuhself......

man riling yuh up for the sake of a lil forum argument.....and yuh takin' it further than necessary......

no need to be a child about it...iz big men on here

relax......
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 12:41:03 PM
it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.copycat this copycat that.AMERICA IS AH RACIST f**kKIN COUNTRY.accordin to morvant,just drive tru de states like ohio and iowa and carolina.they doh even like they own f**kkin people.

lewwe move big and done this nuh. we starting to sound lil' crazy. no need to insult yuh own people capodetutticapi. everyone here agrees there is a lot of racism in america...we all said that..clear and bold. that was not the issue with the post. even if you disagree with someone's opinion...why yuh hadda move on all dat hate. yuh accusin' americans of dislikin their own people and yuh movin' the same way..

peace nah man. i not on no dread scenes with nobody and i eh pretending to judge nobody based on a few lines they might write in a post. have a  :beermug: :beermug: on me and we go bounce up on a next therad and talk some ball instead
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 12:46:41 PM
You see
I knew it was JUST kicks you and ya pardner was on
and NOT to encourage debate.

it was for debate, men had valid views (hence why I said for the sake of a forum argument).......comprehension skills ? People will use language sometimes to rile up the other from time to time...but it's mostly for kicks, nothing personal.....if you pay attention to what is really being said you would refrain from acting like a child as you did.

people disagree when they have their own opinion........and they will argue it to be heard to bring out the best in other person, but it brought out the worst in you it seems.....

It's all old talk and banter in the end anyway....

so there was no need to get personal as you did.......who cares anyway, I out !!
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 12:52:52 PM
all yuh ever consider entering politricks?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 12:56:55 PM
all yuh ever consider entering politricks?

developing the manifesto as we speak
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 12:57:16 PM
man riling yuh up for the sake of a lil forum argument.....and yuh takin' it further than necessary......
no need to be a child about it...iz big men on here
relax......
and I am the CHILD HERE............... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You see the FACTS have presented themselves
I knew it was JUST kicks you and ya pardner was on
and NOT to encourage debate.

I am REALLY dun now

horse...have you read anything I wrote at all??? i was never on no kix. if you read my posts, you will see that. you will also see that I have spent way to much time trying to maintain the peace only to see you get more and more vex. i still cyah understand wha' really went on there. take win yes...you on some kind of trip and i cyah really follow. i mean it when I say take one yes... :beermug:
we hadda have some common ground somewhere...maybe today was not the day to find it. respect
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 01:02:28 PM
america so freggin racist

it have blacks from the south who doh like blacks from de north who doh like de midwest blacks who doh like de blacks from de west.

no race gets along in harmony here

maybe in new york and florida but as far as the country goes

take ah roadtrip and see fuh yuhself

Is this an example of racism? the only people you mentioned here are blacks.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 01:07:33 PM
i think that is actually regionalism. we have that in trinidad too.

allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 01:10:37 PM
allyuh men have meh laughing here...West yuh real sensitive today boy...relax son. kicker and Filho...ease up nah ;D
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: FF on March 27, 2006, 01:11:09 PM

allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?

Yeah is true... and dey doh like to bathe.....











South ppl ah kicksin eh...  :P
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 01:11:41 PM
i think that is actually regionalism. we have that in trinidad too.

allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?

 :rotfl: :rotfl: good one  :rotfl:  ah go commit that one to memory for yuh ass.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 01:13:50 PM
note: i from south and now living in the other south (ATL).
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 01:14:20 PM

allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?

Yeah is true... and dey doh like to bathe.....









South ppl ah kicksin eh...  :P

 :rotfl: yeah...we have some sayings for allyuh crazy North ppl too and yuh lack of hospitality :rotfl:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 01:15:33 PM
note: i from south and now living in the other south (ATL).

I in the ATL too. In the Northern part  ;D
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 01:21:12 PM
i living in marietta, working in norcross, working out in sandy springs, playing football in roswell, doing mba classes at GSU in alpharetta. that north enough for you?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 01:23:47 PM
i living in marietta, working in norcross, working out in sandy springs, playing football in roswell, doing mba classes at GSU in alpharetta. that north enough for you?

I still more North than that...try Cumming ;D :beermug:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 01:25:25 PM
i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.

is your name Dick Weiner?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: FF on March 27, 2006, 01:29:39 PM
i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.

is your name Dick Weiner?

I live in ATL for 4 years...

wha bout yuh driving up to Buckhead to go Lenox Mall... and de exit sign for de 400 saying:

                    Buckhead
                    Cumming
                    1 Mile

LOL  :rotfl:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 01:31:08 PM
i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.

is your name Dick Weiner?

is because ah the name why I move dey ;D
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 01:34:00 PM
we need to organize a ATL soca warriors lime/small goal. me eh know no trini's here though. i think they in hiding in the corporate glass towers.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Dutty on March 27, 2006, 01:57:46 PM
i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.

is your name Dick Weiner?

I live in ATL for 4 years...

wha bout yuh driving up to Buckhead to go Lenox Mall... and de exit sign for de 400 saying:

                    Buckhead
                    Cumming
                    1 Mile

LOL  :rotfl:


I was wukkin dong dey for a couple weeks last year...I drivin troo buckhead headin fuh downtown...I see dat sign and remember thinkin "boy dis is such ah nice upscale area, how dem go have dat stink sign rong here so?'"   :D

wow...dis thread eh playin it zig off on ah whole next tangent....
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: morvant on March 27, 2006, 02:22:19 PM
america so freggin racist

it have blacks from the south who doh like blacks from de north who doh like de midwest blacks who doh like de blacks from de west.

no race gets along in harmony here

maybe in new york and florida but as far as the country goes

take ah roadtrip and see fuh yuhself

Is this an example of racism? the only people you mentioned here are blacks.

its and example of extreme racism because they were convinced that they were actually different people.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: vibetrini on March 27, 2006, 02:30:22 PM
yea i up for an Atl small goal meet up, who organising?
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 02:32:16 PM
i know of 3 decent open fields.

1. noonday park, marietta (FRESH TURF!)
2. terell mill park, marietta
3. piedmont park, downtown
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 02:57:07 PM
i know of 3 decent open fields.

1. noonday park, marietta (FRESH TURF!)
2. terell mill park, marietta
3. piedmont park, downtown

de first 2 fields cool...Piedmont Pk is bullaman territory.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Andre on March 27, 2006, 03:51:31 PM
de first 2 fields cool...Piedmont Pk is bullaman territory.

they doh come on the football fields. it is have some nice looking woman taking sun on near them though.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: capodetutticapi on March 27, 2006, 04:47:39 PM
it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.copycat this copycat that.AMERICA IS AH RACIST f**kKIN COUNTRY.accordin to morvant,just drive tru de states like ohio and iowa and carolina.they doh even like they own f**kkin people.

lewwe move big and done this nuh. we starting to sound lil' crazy. no need to insult yuh own people capodetutticapi. everyone here agrees there is a lot of racism in america...we all said that..clear and bold. that was not the issue with the post. even if you disagree with someone's opinion...why yuh hadda move on all dat hate. yuh accusin' americans of dislikin their own people and yuh movin' the same way..

peace nah man. i not on no dread scenes with nobody and i eh pretending to judge nobody based on a few lines they might write in a post. have a  :beermug: :beermug: on me and we go bounce up on a next therad and talk some ball instead
filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de f**k is dis.these people too f**kkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: kicker on March 27, 2006, 05:18:15 PM

filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de f**k is dis.these people too f**kkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.

Boss there will always be evils in every society......but in the midst of the evils yuh could find some good too.....you live here in the States, so you obviously found some good (in addition to workin'...I'm sure you have a life outside of work)....so just do you....doh study anybody, and doh let yuh blood boil unless yuh willing to do something about it.....seen ?

People who seem to "worship" the States, might seem blind to the evils that you talk about, but they're probably just more concerned with focussing on the good that can be found in the midst of it, and being positive..........Better off giving them the benefit of the doubt and carrying on doing your thing.......than assuming worse, getting worked up.... and spewin' hate......

That's how I see it. bless....... :beermug:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: capodetutticapi on March 27, 2006, 05:23:34 PM

filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de f**k is dis.these people too f**kkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.

Boss there will always be evils in every society......but in the midst of the evils yuh could find some good too.....you live here in the States, so you obviously found some good (in addition to workin'...I'm sure you have a life outside of work)....so just do you....doh study anybody, and doh let yuh blood boil unless yuh willing to do something about it.....seen ?

People who seem to "worship" the States, might seem blind to the evils that you talk about, but they're probably just more concerned with focussing on the good that can be found in the midst of it, and being positive..........Better off giving them the benefit of the doubt and carrying on doing your thing.......than assuming worse. getting workd up.... and spewin' hate......

That's how I see it. bless....... :beermug:
yuh have ah valid point.if ah really take them on ah might dead b4 meh time.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pointman on March 27, 2006, 05:36:29 PM
de first 2 fields cool...Piedmont Pk is bullaman territory.

they doh come on the football fields. it is have some nice looking woman taking sun on near them though.

WELL AH IN DAT
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Filho on March 27, 2006, 07:45:29 PM

filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de f**k is dis.these people too f**kkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.

Boss there will always be evils in every society......but in the midst of the evils yuh could find some good too.....you live here in the States, so you obviously found some good (in addition to workin'...I'm sure you have a life outside of work)....so just do you....doh study anybody, and doh let yuh blood boil unless yuh willing to do something about it.....seen ?

People who seem to "worship" the States, might seem blind to the evils that you talk about, but they're probably just more concerned with focussing on the good that can be found in the midst of it, and being positive..........Better off giving them the benefit of the doubt and carrying on doing your thing.......than assuming worse. getting workd up.... and spewin' hate......

That's how I see it. bless....... :beermug:
yuh have ah valid point.if ah really take them on ah might dead b4 meh time.

peace :beermug:
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: marcel on March 28, 2006, 12:54:20 AM

he there pompey,kicker.

I have my information from a coloured(heard that was a freak out word in the usa,pffff)girl who was raised in holland and now lives with her american husband in the usa.a better example you cant get i think.

but ok ,no problemo!
everybody has got his/her own opinion about this.
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Behbehman on April 04, 2006, 01:58:45 PM
this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....


Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).

I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.



Thank God yuh cousin living happy in Brazil. Buh lemme tell yuh sumting...Brazil have over 240 color gardations and guess who is always at the bottom on the list...Blacks.  It eh sumting nice to know buh tings changing...it bong tuh change out dey because is black and mixtures of black playing ball out dey. Yuh say whatever, buh anywhere yuh go where there is white and black, there will be some form of discrimination on both sides of the fence.  And what about T&T? Yuh tink dem French Creoles and Shackoblanc (whitey cacaroach) Backra Johnnie's eh racist? Yuh tink dem Chinee and dem eh racist? Yuh tink dem fair-skinned Indo-trinidadians want anyting tuh do with dey own black Indians? Some people does look like dey eh racist buh jes tell dem dat yuh in love wid dey son or daughter then yuh go see wey barley grow. Always remember the words of the Master: Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove...
Title: Re: most racist country
Post by: Pompey on April 04, 2006, 02:26:44 PM
as this thread has popped up again, can i say thanks for talking about Crash.

I watched it the other night and thought it was a brilliant film. Really clever, without trying to sound like a film critic, they used irony brilliantly to show the hypocrisy or racism.
Title: Eto'o's great belly
Post by: scarface on April 17, 2006, 02:17:27 AM
Eto'o's great belly
Fazeer Mohammed


Monday, April 17th 2006
 
 
 Samuel Eto'o has real belly, boy.

The prolific striker won't be at the World Cup finals this year after Cameroon were eliminated in a heartbreaking finale to their qualifying campaign last October. Yet despite that crushing disappointment, he continues to get the better of some of the most accomplished defenders in the world, scoring 24 goals so far this season for runaway Spanish league leaders Barcelona.

But my admiration for him has more to with his intestinal fortitude in the face of almost constant racial abuse in the Primera Liga than his obvious skill at the very highest level. It is a triumph of his character to become one of the best strikers in the world in an environment where racist taunting by spectators - and even other players-is treated with nothing more than token resistance by administrators who proudly pat themselves on the back as guardians of the beautiful game.

Just consider what Eto'o and so many non-white players plying their trade throughout Europe have to endure.

In Spain, where a prominent coach was so comfortable in the country's festering environment of intolerance that he felt no remorse over his disparaging remarks towards a black opponent, it is almost a national pastime to spend an afternoon cheering for the home team and insulting players from Africa and the Middle East in the most vile terms possible.

Monkey chants, bananas being thrown onto the field and a host of verbal insults are all part of the fare in a land that delights in portraying itself as a bastion of Western enlightenment and civility. Most times, the victims of the abuse are consoled by the backing of their teammates and the belief that it is only a vocal minority who are stooping to the level of the gutter.

But every now and then, it becomes too much to bear.

Earlier this season, Eto'o could take it no more in a game at Real Zaragoza. The intensity and persistent nature of the tirade from thousands of animals in the stands was such that he wanted to leave the field there and then, only staying on and continuing with the game at the urging of teammates, officials and opponents. Only two weeks ago, in Barcelona's visit to Racing Santander, the treatment was the same.

And what has been the response from Primera Liga officials to all of this?

Zaragoza were fined the princely sum of US$10,890, while Santander's coffers were supposed to have been depleted by the sum of US$7,260. The combined totals of those fines would only amount to a fraction of a top footballer's weekly wages and, of course, this is all assuming that the penalties were actually enforced given that almost everyone has the right of appeal against any punishment.

So if the Spanish are happily treating this disgraceful practice with kid gloves, it is only reasonable to expect that the world body, FIFA, whose motto is "For the Good of the Game," are coming down on their affiliates like a ton of bricks.

Nothing of the sort. In fact, if a player ingests a banned substance, inadvertently or otherwise, he can be suspended from the game for more than a year. But if spectators at a particular venue become habitual in abusing players or other spectators on the basis of the colour of their skin, the worse that they can expect is a financial penalty that roughly amounts to the cost of the total amount of popcorn sold on a given afternoon.

The Spaniards can take consolation in the fact that they are not alone in Europe in effectively condoning racists in their terraces. For all of the superficial sloganeering about "Kicking Out Racism" and that sort of thing, bigotry remains alive and well in arenas from the westernmost tip of England to the easternmost point in Russia.

A story in yesterday's Express described the treatment meted out to a Brazilian player, Vava, by opposing players and supporters in Bulgaria.

In France, Holland, Germany and England-all countries at the vanguard of the sort of progressive thinking that we are told are characteristic of the developed world - football stadia are magnets for the scum of society while officialdom tries to pretend it isn't all that bad.

To be fair, from their point of view, it is really no big deal because the ones targeted for abuse and insults are just a bunch of minorities anyway. There is no need for any major upheaval because the game is still flourishing as a multi-billion-dollar business, so even FIFA, ensconced in their headquarters in sophisticated and cultured Zurich, hardly feel the game is threatened by a few "n" words and the occasional brawl.

So how do you get the football jefes to rake the clubs of offending supporters over the coals? That's a tough one, because unless the people of real power and influence are themselves the victims of such vitriol, then there is no real motivation to respond.

The most basic instinct in mankind is self-preservation, and until the power-brokers of football are made to feel the deep personal offence of racist abuse, they will continue to respond with a superficiality that amounts to nothing more than tacit approval of such reprehensible behaviour.

Either that, or Eto'o and others not just threatening to walk off the field, but really doing it on a stage where it will really make an impact, like the finals of the Champions League or World Cup.
Title: Re: Eto'o's great belly
Post by: Dutty on April 17, 2006, 06:59:29 AM
Dais ah hell of a vicious circle oui

Club owners need the ticket paying rednecks to be able to offer big contracts,,,, star players big contracts getting paid from ticket sales funded by same rednecks.

Tough call for all involved
...at some point, dignity hadda flex over de money
Title: Re: Eto'o's great belly
Post by: Bourbon on April 17, 2006, 07:11:07 AM
Dem jokey fines dem does be giving dem club does make you want to wonder if dey serious. Real small money. From the time they start loosing points, yuh go see how dey go shape up. And one ting does drive Eto'o......pure bad mind. After how Real treat him....all dem rasict noises.......he damn bitter and dat does cause him to perform. When he being outspoken because of it ppl does want to call de man arrogant and ting. You ever notice how fired up he does be for the classico?? How he does act when he score against real?? Bad Mind IYMC!! I remember a time he say "Beckham might be better looking.....but I am a better player....on the field, which one really matters??"  :rotfl:
Title: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Trini Madness on June 08, 2006, 10:38:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwpO-nnFY9g

take a watch  :(
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Pompey on June 08, 2006, 10:45:03 AM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: ricky on June 08, 2006, 10:47:57 AM
Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Trini Madness on June 08, 2006, 11:00:10 AM
Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??


they might give funny looks but nothing to worry about......theres alot of italians that go to my college....sometimes when i wear my italy del piero jersey they all give me funny looks......half of them wear italia football jackets,  bags or t-shirts but i know none of them dont even know their own squad going to de WC.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: ricky on June 08, 2006, 11:01:46 AM
Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??


they might give funny looks but nothing to worry about......theres alot of italians that go to my college....sometimes when i wear my italy del piero jersey they all give me funny looks......half of them wear italia football jackets,  bags or t-shirts but i know none of them dont even know their own squad going to de WC.

thanks for the feedback, me i more fraid the italian hooligan than any other set
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kicker on June 08, 2006, 11:05:43 AM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Dutty on June 08, 2006, 11:11:39 AM
Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??


they might give funny looks but nothing to worry about......theres alot of italians that go to my college....sometimes when i wear my italy del piero jersey they all give me funny looks......half of them wear italia football jackets,  bags or t-shirts but i know none of them dont even know their own squad going to de WC.

thanks for the feedback, me i more fraid the italian hooligan than any other set


well boy, look like de english still have the champoinship...but polish and germans runnin close second

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149285033712&call_pageid=968332188492&StarSource=RSS
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: RasIred on June 08, 2006, 11:15:58 AM
Eh ...........I used to back Italy hard back in Trinidad from 1986 - 1993..............That changed abruptly for WC 94. There supporters in Canada real racist, after that meh nah back them at alllllllllllll.....I lose off a dem real bad. They are the Potugese are the worst for smiling up and bad talking black people .......

Yeah Racism have to stop especailly wid Football
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: MickeyRat on June 08, 2006, 11:17:30 AM
Ah hope France get to play Spain
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: berris on June 08, 2006, 11:23:05 AM
dem shud ban football in Spain ...ah know dey have racism all over but dem spanish and dem take de cake ...is ah shame dat in dis day and age dey allow bunch ah white trash to geh away with sh!t like dat ...ting like dat does make meh blood crawl .....
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 11:28:07 AM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?

It was just highly amusing that the narrator said that most Americans would be appalled at the racial displays in Europe seeing as the U.S has one of the worst track records when it comes to skin colour.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 11:29:47 AM
Ah hope France get to play Spain

Same thing I was thinking. Buh Henry Eenglish real good, eh?
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Carib-Briton on June 08, 2006, 11:46:59 AM
Ah hope France get to play Spain


Same thing I was thinking. Buh Henry Eenglish real good, eh?
of course is english would be good   ;D ;D
This racism shit, Im just fed up with it, its just normalpart of football now(in some places) , sadly.
I dont think its a problem(or a big problem) in the Prem thou lower leagues yes.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: trinindian on June 08, 2006, 12:15:18 PM
Even if the video is exaggerated as the media sometimes do, the fact that it exist at all is sad. I am so disappointed really and trully sad
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: trinidad badboy on June 08, 2006, 12:19:48 PM


realy is something sad..
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kicker on June 08, 2006, 12:20:51 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?

It was just highly amusing that the narrator said that most Americans would be appalled at the racial displays in Europe seeing as the U.S has one of the worst track records when it comes to skin colour.

I think he meant that Americans would be appalled at the racial displays and that Europe has not had a civil rights movement in spite of such......which is a good point....say what you wish about racism and the U.S., that sh*t would not fly here in the States. (of course the black population is alot more significant here in the U.S.)...but if that sh*t took place in the NFL, NBA or any American sport, trust me, the league would not go on as is..........there would be a movement of some sort.

I keep saying, the white players are the ones that have to stand up for the minorities.....that's the only way any impact will be made. If the black players complain, it's like so what...obviously they will complain....but when the white players stand up and walk out on games/teams, then people will wake up and realize it's not a black problem, it's just a problem.....
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: USgalWARRIORbf on June 08, 2006, 12:23:40 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?

It was just highly amusing that the narrator said that most Americans would be appalled at the racial displays in Europe seeing as the U.S has one of the worst track records when it comes to skin colour.

No.  What the narrator was saying is that TODAY in America those things would not be tolerated, while people in other countries are very complacent about whats going on.  You would never see shit like that happening during a Superbowl or NBA final and if it did, the authorities would act on it because there would be a very loud outcry about it.

edit:yeah...what kicker said... ;)
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 12:26:25 PM


I keep saying, the white players are the ones that have to stand up for the minorities.....that's the only way any impact will be made. If the black players complain, it's like so what...obviously they will complain....but when the white players stand up and walk out on games/teams, then people will wake up and realize it's not a black problem, it's just a problem.....


Very true. But when there are coaches like the Spanish coach using racist remarks to incite their players to perform...what then? I think it's hard for the white players to empathise with the black ones because in the video it was always the fellow black players rushing to the aid even if the victim was on the opposite team.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Trinimassive on June 08, 2006, 12:44:33 PM
What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.

They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Weh-it-is on June 08, 2006, 12:45:02 PM
How could people hate ah man beacuse of the colour of his skin and over look his skill on the pitch? Next thing Sepp Blater is ah Grand Wiszard in thee Klan and Jack is he House slaves yes! LOL Nah...But it has to stop... leh them come around some real man from thee Beetom with tha holigan bussiness..is only chop passing yes! lol
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 12:47:08 PM
What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.

They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:

lol True. Buh ah wonder if is worse to have sombody blatantly tell yuh dey eh like yuh or petend dey like yuh n doing ting behine yuh back.  ??? At least with the former yuh might know who tuh go rong n who not tuh go rong, ent?
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Weh-it-is on June 08, 2006, 12:50:13 PM


I keep saying, the white players are the ones that have to stand up for the minorities.....that's the only way any impact will be made. If the black players complain, it's like so what...obviously they will complain....but when the white players stand up and walk out on games/teams, then people will wake up and realize it's not a black problem, it's just a problem.....


Very true. But when there are coaches like the Spanish coach using racist remarks to incite their players to perform...what then? I think it's hard for the white players to empathise with the black ones because in the video it was always the fellow black players rushing to the aid even if the victim was on the opposite team.

Soldier the racist bussiness is still in effect... it's just on a higher level it kinda hidden now! They don't wear white or hooded hats... which makes it more dangerous!
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kicker on June 08, 2006, 12:51:36 PM
What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.

They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:

haha...cynical, but there's some truth to that.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Weh-it-is on June 08, 2006, 12:55:57 PM
Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact!  ;D
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Trinimassive on June 08, 2006, 12:58:58 PM
What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.

They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:

lol True. Buh ah wonder if is worse to have sombody blatantly tell yuh dey eh like yuh or petend dey like yuh n doing ting behine yuh back.  ??? At least with the former yuh might know who tuh go rong n who not tuh go rong, ent?

I want to know.  But if they ent open I does figure it out
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Dutty on June 08, 2006, 01:06:28 PM
Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact!  ;D

Dais your racism testing?? :rotfl:

You is ah hands on scientist or wha
 
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kingman on June 08, 2006, 01:16:43 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.

Kingman
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 01:28:11 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.

Kingman

Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kicker on June 08, 2006, 01:32:51 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.

Kingman

Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!

I think Kingman was just joking......he's just in support of sampling all the flavours....as am I.  ;D
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Trinimassive on June 08, 2006, 01:33:25 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman

Kingman ah guess that is yuh rational when yuh walking down the road with ah White woman.....and ah Black woman say "wah yuh doing with she my Black King ???"

Yuh go say...."Oman...is change I tryin to change the world yes" :rotfl:
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Dutty on June 08, 2006, 01:34:08 PM
Kingman movin smart  ;D

He mus be like he blondies and brunettes...so he lookin to bed some tings to create 'world peace and harmony'  :devil:

He like ah missionary.....and he spreadin goodwill through the missionary
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kingman on June 08, 2006, 01:35:19 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman

Kingman ah guess that is yuh rational when yuh walking down the road with ah White woman.....and ah Black woman say "wah yuh doing with she my Black King ???"

Yuh go say...."Oman...is change I tryin to change the world yes" :rotfl:



 :rotfl:  :beermug: I like that one. But actually, my girlfriend is Latino. I know I know....but she not on them things.

Kingman
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 01:38:54 PM


I think Kingman was just joking......he's just in support of sampling all the flavours....as am I.  ;D

 ::) Okay then. Ah hope he was really joking in truth.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Weh-it-is on June 08, 2006, 02:12:40 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.

Kingman

I go do one more test an ah gone. Solider but some ah we does really like like monkey yuh know! LOL Yuh see we racist againts we own self!  :rotfl: I hear silents! Weh thee music! Ah gone!
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Filho on June 08, 2006, 02:21:22 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 08, 2006, 02:28:38 PM
Now...y am i upset that this video was done. well caus ei ma because it was american. they insinuationg they not as racist as eurpoe. dont mind u during the second world war..while france had black commanders in thier ranks not one american black soldier coudl ahve served is country. saved the much bragged about tuskegee airmen. that was an abberation. even in the hurricane katrina incident it wa sblanat if not racisim , than negelect which they implied in the video is one and the same. they just wnat somehting to talk about. and trust me i lived long enough in the states to know.dat shit still goes on. it have some parts of the states black ppl cant go. and for get black for a second now everyoen with a sari, turban, hijab are open to attack cause now de new bad ppl are the"towel heads" as they calle dby alot of americans. everyone from time immoriall.... every single group be it blakc white or in between have discrimminated agsint someone else. white agsint black white agaisnt white and black agasint white and black and so on. so when these self rightous americans.do somethign liek this..sorry but tis jus either to find somehting to do..or a left wing political agena. because it seems all of the american networks spill policital propaganda out . if ANY ONE OF U ISTENS TO DAT "NETWORK" CALLED FOX FOR NEWS.  U JUST LISTENING O WHAT BUSH WHATS TO U HEAR...
 SO THOUGH THE PROBLEM IS REAL..THIS VIDEO COULD KISS MY MULTICULTURAL AND MULTIENTHIC ASS
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 08, 2006, 02:31:16 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume  the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids.  right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kicker on June 08, 2006, 02:51:47 PM
Now...y am i upset that this video was done. well caus ei ma because it was american. they insinuationg they not as racist as eurpoe. dont mind u during the second world war..while france had black commanders in thier ranks not one american black soldier coudl ahve served is country. saved the much bragged about tuskegee airmen. that was an abberation. even in the hurricane katrina incident it wa sblanat if not racisim , than negelect which they implied in the video is one and the same. they just wnat somehting to talk about. and trust me i lived long enough in the states to know.dat shit still goes on. it have some parts of the states black ppl cant go. and for get black for a second now everyoen with a sari, turban, hijab are open to attack cause now de new bad ppl are the"towel heads" as they calle dby alot of americans. everyone from time immoriall.... every single group be it blakc white or in between have discrimminated agsint someone else. white agsint black white agaisnt white and black agasint white and black and so on. so when these self rightous americans.do somethign liek this..sorry but tis jus either to find somehting to do..or a left wing political agena. because it seems all of the american networks spill policital propaganda out . if ANY ONE OF U ISTENS TO DAT "NETWORK" CALLED FOX FOR NEWS.  U JUST LISTENING O WHAT BUSH WHATS TO U HEAR...
 SO THOUGH THE PROBLEM IS REAL..THIS VIDEO COULD KISS MY MULTICULTURAL AND MULTIENTHIC ASS

everything that you've said is irrelevant to the fact that there is a race problem in European football.....and that is what the video was about. Despite the agenda, the news item was legit. (of course sensationalized)....but legit nevertheless.....help me if I missed your point.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: PantherX on June 08, 2006, 03:07:32 PM
Unfortunately the problem is not just racism but bigotry in general.

As long as men are different from each other there will always be the idiots who will seek to hurt those that are different from themselves to compensate for their own inadequacies.

It may be based on race, religion, nationality or sexual orientation but it's all the same.

All you can really do is to NEVER tolerate bigotry in any form and teach your children to do the same.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 03:17:38 PM
Unfortunately the problem is not just racism but bigotry in general.

As long as men are different from each other there will always be the idiots who will seek to hurt those that are different from themselves to compensate for their own inadequacies.

It may be based on race, religion, nationality or sexual orientation but it's all the same.

All you can really do is to NEVER tolerate bigotry in any form and teach your children to do the same.


I don't think the problem is that people are different from eachother...there has always and will always be differences present. The problem arises when one group think that because of those differences, they are therfore superior.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Carib-Briton on June 08, 2006, 03:20:25 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.

Kingman

Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!
I think he was joking too, especially as he said men only, so men could have all the fruit in the bowl. :rotfl:
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: pioneertrini on June 08, 2006, 03:46:46 PM
The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious  ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!

I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).

Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.

We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.

I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.

Kingman

Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!
I think he was joking too, especially as he said men only, so men could have all the fruit in the bowl. :rotfl:

lol if that was to happen it will just get the racists more vex for takin their women  :beermug:
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: dumpalewie on June 08, 2006, 03:54:16 PM
Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact!  ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.

If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.

I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.

Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.

Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Toppa on June 08, 2006, 03:55:36 PM
Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact!  ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.

If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.

I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.

Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.

Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.

Ah think de person yuh quoted was joking, yuh know.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 08, 2006, 03:58:44 PM
Now...y am i upset that this video was done. well caus ei ma because it was american. they insinuationg they not as racist as eurpoe. dont mind u during the second world war..while france had black commanders in thier ranks not one american black soldier coudl ahve served is country. saved the much bragged about tuskegee airmen. that was an abberation. even in the hurricane katrina incident it wa sblanat if not racisim , than negelect which they implied in the video is one and the same. they just wnat somehting to talk about. and trust me i lived long enough in the states to know.dat shit still goes on. it have some parts of the states black ppl cant go. and for get black for a second now everyoen with a sari, turban, hijab are open to attack cause now de new bad ppl are the"towel heads" as they calle dby alot of americans. everyone from time immoriall.... every single group be it blakc white or in between have discrimminated agsint someone else. white agsint black white agaisnt white and black agasint white and black and so on. so when these self rightous americans.do somethign liek this..sorry but tis jus either to find somehting to do..or a left wing political agena. because it seems all of the american networks spill policital propaganda out . if ANY ONE OF U ISTENS TO DAT "NETWORK" CALLED FOX FOR NEWS.  U JUST LISTENING O WHAT BUSH WHATS TO U HEAR...
 SO THOUGH THE PROBLEM IS REAL..THIS VIDEO COULD KISS MY MULTICULTURAL AND MULTIENTHIC ASS

everything that you've said is irrelevant to the fact that there is a race problem in European football.....and that is what the video was about. Despite the agenda, the news item was legit. (of course sensationalized)....but legit nevertheless.....help me if I missed your point.
first thing i said was that ia gree..that it have racism..but it have that every friggin way..from eurpoe to america back all de way to trini.. what i was tlkaing about was the fact that the fetaure make it seem liek dais the only place witht hat problem.. my pt is this.which iw a smaking to that other reply.. would u listen to a thief who told u someoen just stole from your house.? even if it is true...what is his purpose..especially we know it already.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: kicker on June 08, 2006, 04:14:44 PM

first thing i said was that ia gree..that it have racism..but it have that every friggin way..from eurpoe to america back all de way to trini.. what i was tlkaing about was the fact that the fetaure make it seem liek dais the only place witht hat problem.. my pt is this.which iw a smaking to that other reply.. would u listen to a thief who told u someoen just stole from your house.? even if it is true...what is his purpose..especially we know it already.

the video never implied that Europe is the only place where there is racism.........come on get serious.....no person would ever try to claim that......If that's what you got out of it then that's a product of your own bias. The video segment highlighted a specific real life example of racism in football.

Your complaint against the video was an attempt to discredit the news item by deliberately diverting from the legit aim of the video simply to express an anti-American sentiment, which in itself is not only a form of discrimination on your part.....but totally irrelevant to the issue of racism in football.

I agree with you that "do as I say, but not  as I do" can't be taken literally....but I don't think that the post was meant to be purely black & white and taken lieterally either
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Warrioress on June 08, 2006, 04:16:10 PM
I am not sure if anyone posted this as yet but i think it may be helpful for those in Germany for the World Cup:

Here is the 24 hour hotline to call if you feel threatened or are subject to racist attacks while in Germany - (0170) 6 09 42 41.

Also check out this website that was created specially for the WC.  
http://www.prevent-racist-attack.org/
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 08, 2006, 04:46:32 PM

first thing i said was that ia gree..that it have racism..but it have that every friggin way..from eurpoe to america back all de way to trini.. what i was tlkaing about was the fact that the fetaure make it seem liek dais the only place witht hat problem.. my pt is this.which iw a smaking to that other reply.. would u listen to a thief who told u someoen just stole from your house.? even if it is true...what is his purpose..especially we know it already.

the video never implied that Europe is the only place where there is racism.........come on get serious.....no person would ever try to claim that......If that's what you got out of it then that's a product of your own bias. The video segment highlighted a specific real life example of racism in football.

Your complaint against the video was an attempt to discredit the news item by deliberately diverting from the legit aim of the video simply to express an anti-American sentiment, which in itself is not only a form of discrimination on your part.....but totally irrelevant to the issue of racism in football.

I agree with you that "do as I say, but not  as I do" can't be taken literally....but I don't think that the post was meant to be purely black & white and taken lieterally either
i wa sjus giving my personal views pertainign to y...i wont get hyped of this particular video. that is what  i was saying. i have learnt long ago to ignore to an extent american media. i am sur eothe rplaces have th esame issues.but they have ti down pact. i would have givne more credence to a european expose delaing wiht the same topic. ro after they have thier own about americas challenge wiht this issue.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Filho on June 08, 2006, 06:28:41 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume  the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids.  right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p

I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 08, 2006, 06:36:21 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume  the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids.  right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p

I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Filho on June 08, 2006, 06:56:00 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume  the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids.  right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p

I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.

look..dat is your scene and i eh go fight yuh down....
but you are being a lil' condescending and that is tasteless. you really doh know me and what I up to breds....so relax..take a breath...and don't assume. You would be surprised what many of your compatriots are up to. So before yuh look to disrespect your people....stand up for something and yuh will be surprised who else standing right there with you.

peace
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 08, 2006, 07:02:38 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume  the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids.  right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p

I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.

look..dat is your scene and i eh go fight yuh down....
but you are being a lil' condescending and that is tasteless. you really doh know me and what I up to breds....so relax..take a breath...and don't assume. You would be surprised what many of your compatriots are up to. So before yuh look to disrespect your people....stand up for something and yuh will be surprised who else standing right there with you.

peace
no fella i eh trying to  be condesending at all. i just stating my piece as u did. dais all sorry of i came across dat way.   and i stand all the time and usualy i alone. but bless fella
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Filho on June 08, 2006, 07:12:09 PM
No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)

if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume  the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids.  right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p

I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.

look..dat is your scene and i eh go fight yuh down....
but you are being a lil' condescending and that is tasteless. you really doh know me and what I up to breds....so relax..take a breath...and don't assume. You would be surprised what many of your compatriots are up to. So before yuh look to disrespect your people....stand up for something and yuh will be surprised who else standing right there with you.

peace
no fella i eh trying to  be condesending at all. i just stating my piece as u did. dais all sorry of i came across dat way.   and i stand all the time and usualy i alone. but bless fella

 :beermug: :beermug:
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Weh-it-is on June 08, 2006, 08:00:05 PM
Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact!  ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.

If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.

I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.

Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.

Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.
Like you having a bad day or something... relax yuhself and breathe Mr. I was only trying prove that people are sometimes racist in the mind my friend. Vibes it up for the world and take ah drink. :beermug:
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 08, 2006, 08:02:42 PM
Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact!  ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.

If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.

I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.

Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.

Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.
Like you having a bad day or something... relax yuhself and breathe Mr. I was only trying prove that people are sometimes racist in the mind my friend. Vibes it up for the world and take ah drink. :beermug:
wehitis..ah feel everybody on edge.....dey tizik.. . i hear dem soldiers does sya the wating is worse . i know y now yes real presssur eind e camp. ::)
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: valleyman on June 09, 2006, 12:21:19 AM
organic man you killing me with the spelling
i am infront my computer here and i want to scream
Title: Re: This is sad......racism has to stop
Post by: Organic on June 09, 2006, 04:44:22 AM
organic man you killing me with the spelling
i am infront my computer here and i want to scream

i hear banging your head agasint the pc might help the pain..lol..how was the spelling in this one??
Title: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: Filho on July 31, 2006, 01:02:44 PM
Interesting...the actual fines for racist fan behavior still seem pathetic, but they accumulate for persistent behavior, plus UEFA could impose heavier punishment. Not really only UEFA's job to fight racism..it occurs in the stadium, but it does not originate nor end there. Besides, you can't bankrupt a club becasue of a group of idiots who may not care that much about the club anyway. I like the diving ban...but are they going to use post-game video evidence??? What ya'll think...


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/soccer/07/31/bc.eu.spt.soc.uefa.racism.ap/index.html
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: takenoprisoners on July 31, 2006, 02:48:24 PM
This is a conservative approach they have taken with regards to fines for racist fan behaviour. I suppose this gives them leverage to tighten the screws if this behaviour persists, as you say no need to bankrupt clubs at the onset, but the clubs now have fair notice.
The diving ban seems reasonable, yet post game videos do not seem to be in the mix. Again if the problem persists , hopefully UEFA will re-consider.
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: Mango Chow! on July 31, 2006, 07:24:58 PM
  I think the racism thing can be very challenging but FIFA hand all of the confederations affected by it really have to do something about it..........even if it might not be enough.  The diving and deception really needs to be cleaned up (even though players have been diving for decades, it really SEEMS  to be getting at its worst........to me) because the players that do it are beginning to turn our game into a farce.   Gring back the good old days when men were playing the game to score and win, instead of using tactics to lessen a team's manpower and then strike.
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: morvant on July 31, 2006, 08:12:01 PM
diving is part of de game just like ah spanner

if yuh master the art then so be it
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: berris on July 31, 2006, 08:25:47 PM
To me is ah double standard ah man cud watch another man and call him
ah racist word in he face on de streets and geh wid...'freedom of speech',buh if yuh used it on de pitch, it have penalties.It shud be ban throughout, if ah man call yuh ah word starting wid N and rhymes wid trigger, yuh shud have de right tuh buss way he @#$%ing face for free
  ...in de work place or on de streets....it shudn't have no place for racism in dis world .
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: jai john on July 31, 2006, 08:33:30 PM
how an organisation  embracing  a coach who is a confessed rascist by his remarks can expect any credibilty truly escapes me.
How Aragones could stand behind a banner saying say no to racism is a big world class joke !
It is like putting mano benjamin to adjudicate  a child murder !
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: berris on August 01, 2006, 07:01:16 PM
how an organisation  embracing  a coach who is a confessed rascist by his remarks can expect any credibilty truly escapes me.
How Aragones could stand behind a banner saying say no to racism is a big world class joke !It is like putting mano benjamin to adjudicate  a child murder !


He's ah arsehole that shud geh ban for life  >:(
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: Feliziano on August 01, 2006, 07:17:03 PM
To me is ah double standard ah man cud watch another man and call him
ah racist word in he face on de streets and geh wid...'freedom of speech',buh if yuh used it on de pitch, it have penalties.It shud be ban throughout, if ah man call yuh ah word starting wid N and rhymes wid trigger, yuh shud have de right tuh buss way he @#$%ing face for free
  ...in de work place or on de streets....it shudn't have no place for racism in dis world .
yeah yuh saying dat
but you know and I know..you only concerned and give ah shit when is the N word in question right.
as if dat is the only word racist word dat matters..steups
and yuh gone back in Aragiones tail again?  ;D
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: berris on August 01, 2006, 08:55:36 PM
To me is ah double standard ah man cud watch another man and call him
ah racist word in he face on de streets and geh wid...'freedom of speech'
,buh if yuh used it on de pitch, it have penalties.It shud be ban throughout, if ah man call yuh ah word starting wid N and rhymes wid trigger, yuh shud have de right tuh buss way he @#$%ing face for free
  ...in de work place or on de streets....it shudn't have no place for racism in dis world .
yeah yuh saying dat
but you know and I know..you only concerned and give ah shit when is the N word in question right.
as if dat is the only word racist word dat matters..steups
and yuh gone back in Aragiones tail again?  ;D
-

Read the hightlight before yuh talk nah man.It goes both ways.  I calling it based on what going on in de spanish league .How much white players in the spanish league yuh hear complain that racial slurs were made against them? How much black man in de stands yuh see making racist gestures or calling white players ah word starting with H and rhyming with tonky, eh ? And yes ah gorn back in arogiones tail ppl like that shuddn't geh pardon, he eh no 10 yr old that eh know better and he cyar change now,his apology definately fool you,according to response in de past you accept it,not I.
If de spanish league want to show de really serious bout getting rid of racism in football then they shud ban him for life.
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: Mango Chow! on August 02, 2006, 08:51:44 PM
how an organisation  embracing  a coach who is a confessed rascist by his remarks can expect any credibilty truly escapes me.
How Aragones could stand behind a banner saying say no to racism is a big world class joke !It is like putting mano benjamin to adjudicate  a child murder !


He's ah arsehole that shud geh ban for life  >:(

   Nah, doh ban him.  let  him continue coaching Spain as they will continue to underachieve, until he gets fired and finds some second-rate team to coach in obscurity and see no success there either.  Sounds good on paper.
Title: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: Andre on August 22, 2006, 10:18:26 AM
scheups.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-mexicoracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns

Mexican club Santos fined over racist insults   

MEXICO CITY, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Mexican first division club Santos Laguna have been fined and given a warning after their fans aimed racist insults at a black player.

The Torreon-based club were fined the equivalent of $25,265 after Monterrey's Panamanian international defender Felipe Baloy was greeted with monkey chants when he touched the ball during the match on Aug 6.

Baloy scored Monterrey's first goal in a 2-2 draw.
    
The Mexico Football Federation (FMF) said that Santos Laguna had been warned of a possible home ban in case of a repetition.

The club was also ordered to install closed-circuit television in its stadium by the end of the year to help identify possible offenders.
Title: Re: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: jub02 on August 22, 2006, 10:41:17 AM
they shudda jus ban the crowd from goin to the next match . den they will know they cant do it no more.
Title: Re: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: palos on August 22, 2006, 10:45:49 AM
scheups.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-mexicoracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns

Mexican club Santos fined over racist insults   

MEXICO CITY, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Mexican first division club Santos Laguna have been fined and given a warning after their fans aimed racist insults at a black player.

The Torreon-based club were fined the equivalent of $25,265 after Monterrey's Panamanian international defender Felipe Baloy was greeted with monkey chants when he touched the ball during the match on Aug 6.

Baloy scored Monterrey's first goal in a 2-2 draw.
    
The Mexico Football Federation (FMF) said that Santos Laguna had been warned of a possible home ban in case of a repetition.

The club was also ordered to install closed-circuit television in its stadium by the end of the year to help identify possible offenders.

Dat eh now reach hoss.  There was a reason Mexico league never had very few black players until recently.  Now it have a handful but back in de day....visiting black players from CONCACAF had it very tough in Mexico.  On de field of play...it was worse.  I remember watchin Jerren Nixon in de Velodrome givin a Mexican national squad pressha...not from football so much...but jes hangin around and givin dem talk.  Dem fellas in de backline went ballistic and is so Jerren was harassin dem.  Dey call he every slur in de book (ah understand lil spanish).  He sure gave as good as he got that night.
Title: Re: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: Carib-Briton on August 22, 2006, 10:58:51 AM
they shudda jus ban the crowd from goin to the next match . den they will know they cant do it no more.
That the best thing you ever post :beermug:
That hits the fans and the clubs revenue.
Title: Re: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: supporter on August 22, 2006, 11:09:37 AM
i always find it ironic these places hurling the racist insults are places where the majority experience racism themselves from countries like the usa, or in spain's case, have a deep history with racial mixing.
Title: Re: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: Jefferz on August 22, 2006, 11:59:03 AM
oh jesus christ... well ah eh surprised with the spanish speaking peoples... especially mexicans... those who are descriminated against will turn and point there fingers at the next man...
Title: Re: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: Trini Madness on August 22, 2006, 12:10:05 PM
whey.....this ting spreading like a virus....
Title: Re: Racist Monkey Chants Reach CONCACAF
Post by: Dutty on August 22, 2006, 12:26:25 PM
scheups.

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-mexicoracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns

Mexican club Santos fined over racist insults   

Dat eh now reach hoss.  There was a reason Mexico league never had very few black players until recently.  Now it have a handful but back in de day....visiting black players from CONCACAF had it very tough in Mexico.  On de field of play...it was worse.  I remember watchin Jerren Nixon in de Velodrome givin a Mexican national squad pressha...not from football so much...but jes hangin around and givin dem talk.  Dem fellas in de backline went ballistic and is so Jerren was harassin dem.  Dey call he every slur in de book (ah understand lil spanish).  He sure gave as good as he got that night.


Run dat again?

Nixon stand up givin dem talks in spanish?? to the point where they frothin at de mouth??

De man real boss in trute
Title: Croatia warned on fans' behaviour no racial abuse will be tolerated.
Post by: truetrini on October 10, 2006, 08:29:51 AM
Croatia warned on fans' behaviour 
 
Croatia face sanctions if fans racially abuse England's players
Uefa has warned Croatia they could be kicked out of Euro 2008 if fans direct any racism towards England's players.
Fifa charged the Croatian Football Federation with bringing the game into disrepute after fans formed a human swastika during a friendly in Italy.

Ahead of Wednesday's Euro 2008 qualifier in Zagreb, Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "We can impose heavier sanctions if it happens again.

"That ultimately could be exclusion from the competition."

England's black players have been subjected to racist abuse in the past, with Ashley Cole being targeted by Spain fans in a friendly in Madrid.

Uefa has contacted the Croatian government to spell out their warning, while their football federation has also implemented measures to ensure there are no problems against England.

Croatia are keen the match goes ahead without incident because they are making a joint bid with Hungary to host the 2012 European Championship.

The disrepute charge from Fifa followed the swastika incident, which involved 200 supporters at a friendly against Italy in Livorno in August.

Croatia were fined during Euro 2004 over racist banners flown at a game against France.

Gaillard added: "There are new rules, which can lead to exclusion from a competition and docking points in extreme cases. We will monitor events closely.

"Ourselves and Fifa have imposed sanctions and the sanctions will be heavier in the future."
Title: Rovers praise UEFA action after racist abuse
Post by: truetrini on October 26, 2006, 05:26:29 PM
Rovers praise UEFA action after racist abuse



UEFA have been applauded by Blackburn and football's anti-racism group Kick It Out for imposing a five-match European ban on Nikola Mijailovic.
 

Wisla Krakow's 24-year-old Serbian defender was punished for taunting striker Benni McCarthy during the UEFA Cup group game in Poland last week.

Blackburn manager Mark Hughes called for strong action to be taken and got his wish.

In a statement, the club said: 'UEFA's decision sends out a clear message that racism will not - and should not - be tolerated in the game.

'We appreciate UEFA's speed in dealing with this important issue.'

South Africa striker McCarthy, 28, squared up to Mijailovic at the end of Blackburn's 2-1 victory and then complained about the treatment he had received.

Kick it Out spokesman Piara Powar said: 'A ban for five matches is strong stuff and very welcome.

'It is the sort of sanction that people across Europe will think, 'There is a message to be learned here'.

'The concern in the past has been that many incidents have gone unpunished.

'It is time we were able to demonstrate that racism is being challenged in European football.

'UEFA are doing a lot of work in this field and this guy (Mijailovic) has been nailed in the right way.

'It seems that Blackburn and other officials were able to produce eye-witness evidence, allowing action to be taken.'

A statement on UEFA's website confirmed: 'Wisla Krakow defender Nikola Mijailovic has been banned by UEFA for five UEFA club competition matches for racial abuse of Blackburn Rovers FC striker Benni McCarthy.'

Mijailovic is now facing missing the rest of the group games and has until Monday to appeal against the ban.

Title: Re: Rovers praise UEFA action after racist abuse
Post by: elan on October 26, 2006, 08:33:39 PM
Fine them some money to and give it to some poor youth club.
Title: Re: New UEFA rules regarding racism, diving etc...
Post by: ribbit on February 07, 2007, 11:54:59 AM
Aragones cleared of racist conduct (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SPORT/football/02/07/spain.aragones/index.html)

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/SPORT/football/02/07/spain.aragones/story.aragones.jpg)

Aragones successfully appealled against the charge that he had been racist.


MADRID, Spain -- Spain coach Luis Aragones has been cleared of racist conduct by a Spanish court after his derogatory remarks about France striker Thierry Henry in October 2004.

"The court found that the Spanish Committee for Sporting Discipline (CEDD) had incorrectly evaluated the evidence," said the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF).

"We now hope that all measures will be taken to clear the good name of the national coach and the RFEF disciplinary committees."

Aragones caused controversy in October 2004 when he was heard during training making a remark about Henry to his then Arsenal team-mate Jose Antonio Reyes.

The 68-year-old Aragones was originally fined 3,000 euros for behavior "contrary to the good order of the sport" by the RFEF.

The offence was upgraded to "conduct which could be considered to be racist" by the government-run CEDD and both Aragones and the RFEF successfully appealed against that decision to the Spanish court.

The RFEF were unable to say, however, whether Aragones would still have to pay the fine for the original charge.

"I went to court because it was a stain on my reputation and because the offense did not exist as some judges believed," said Aragones.

Aragones initially apologised after widespread criticism of his behavior, saying he had not meant to offend anyone and that his conscience was clear.

He stirred further controversy, however, by mounting an energetic defense of his comments before a friendly against England in November 2004.

That match in Madrid was marred by racist abuse of England's black players by sections of the crowd.

Spain play England in a friendly at Old Trafford on Wednesday.

 
Title: Scotland: Best reply to racism.
Post by: Tallman on March 01, 2007, 08:16:24 AM
Scotland: Best reply to racism.
TEAMtalk.com.


St Johnstone hitman Jason Scotland felt he had responded in the best possible way to the "awful" racist abuse he received from Motherwell fans.
About a dozen supporters in Fir Park's main stand twice indulged in abuse when Scotland had possession in the opening stages of the Perth side's 2-1 Tennent's Scottish Cup quarter-final victory on Wednesday.
They were reprimanded by the vast majority of Well fans around them and did not repeat the abuse after police and stewards were alerted.
Scotland then made them suffer with the second goal in the First Division side's thoroughly-deserved victory.
The Trinidad & Tobago international was elevated to national celebrity status last summer as he was the closest Scotland came to the World Cup.
He even had a song written about him that reached the UK Top 40 as his country prepared to take on England.
But he admitted he had been upset by his experience, saying: "That's the first time it has happened to me.
"Obviously I am disappointed because when I played in the World Cup I carried Scotland on my back. And to play in Scotland and get that kind of abuse is just awful.
"To be fair I really didn't take it on, I was just playing my normal game.
"I was just delighted to score the goal that put us in the semi-final.
"I probably heard it but I didn't really pay any attention. The best way to react is with that goal and let my football do the talking."
The former Dundee United striker, who had to leave Tannadice when his work permit application was rejected, feels Saints have a chance of making the final.
With victories over Rangers, Dundee United and Falkirk also under their belts this season, Scotland does not fear Celtic, Hibernian or Dunfermline.
The 28-year-old said: "We played against top teams in the past and we have done well so we fancy our chances against anyone.
"We are delighted to play in the semi-final and play in a big occasion and hopefully put in a big performance.
"People can say all kind of stuff about St Johnstone, that they will batter us, but this was a good result and at St Johnstone we let our football do the talking."
Motherwell boss Maurice Malpas hit out at his side's attitude and performance.
Peter MacDonald gave the visitors a deserved 20th-minute lead and the First Division side had countless chances after Scotland's 72nd-minute header.
Ross McCormack pulled one back with five minutes left and David Clarkson then had a decent penalty shout that referee Mike McCurry appeared to think twice about.
But Well were not worthy of a replay as they struggled to create chances and nullify the Saints attack all night.
Malpas said: "We never did enough to win the game. St Johnstone deserved to go through and it hurts me to say that.
"I wasn't happy with our performance and the manner we went about our business was wrong."
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: 100% Barataria on March 01, 2007, 08:47:53 AM
The more things change the more they stay the same....Keep your head up Jason and respond w/your cleats!
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: fivers on March 01, 2007, 11:18:05 AM
Here is the goal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yXuQt6nX2Q
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: Grande on March 01, 2007, 11:22:49 AM
Here is the goal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yXuQt6nX2Q

Great run by his teammate to find him on the cross
Title: Well Beaten now Well Ashamed
Post by: E-man on March 01, 2007, 11:27:25 AM
Well Beaten now Well Ashamed
By Firparkcorner


1 Mar 2007

The news that Jason Scotland seemed to be a target for racial abuse during the game against St Johnstone puts the defeat into perspective. The result of a football match becomes irrelevant if accusations of monkey chanting at Fir Park are found to be upheld.

A selection of Thursday's press reports seem to leave no doubt that a number of idiots in the Main Stand behaved in a manner which fills every football fan with disgust and anger. Thankfully, the reports also note that supporters in the vicinity were quick to point out the offenders to the police and our thanks are due to them for reflecting the views of the vast majority.

The police and stewards should now provide an explanation if no one was thrown out of the ground. It is understood that there was no mention of the incident when those charged with crowd safety reported to the club after the match. A club spokesman said on Thursday morning, "The club will be investigating these reports and if it can identify any culprits it will take the strongest possible measures against them. Disgusting behaviour of this type has no place in Fir Park or anywhere else."

Motherwell fans, while despondent, depressed and disappointed in the team's showing, recognise that we were beaten by a better team on the night and wish St Johnstone further success in the competition and hope that Jason Scotland recognises that the racist bigots who have brought shame on our club are not in any way typical of Motherwell fans in general.

A selection from Thursday's press.

The Herald

Sadly, the opening stages were marred by disgraceful racist chanting directed at Jason Scotland, the black St Johnstone striker, from a small section of the main stand.

Monkey noises accompanied his first two touches though the Motherwell fans, to their credit, were quick to alert the police to the matter and it soon ceased. But the perpetrators were not ejected and the club may not have heard the last of the matter.


Dundee Courier

In scenes harking back to the bad old days, the man who helped front the Show Racism the Red Card campaign and was backed by this country when with Trinidad and Tobago in last summer's World Cup, was taunted by monkey chants during what was otherwise a fantastic occasion at Fir Park.

Referring to the treatment he received, the front man said, "I am disappointed because I have carried the name of Scotland on my back and to get abuse here is awful.

Daily Record

Scotland also looked menacing whenever he touched the ball and the Trinidad and Tobago international was also the subject of monkey chants from a small knot of fans in the main stand.

Motherwell fans within earshot summoned stewards and demanded offenders be watched and rooted out. It was a fine example of self-policing from the home fans.

Daily Mail

However, the evening was soured by the home fans' chants at the beginning of the game and the SFA are sure to investigate following the ugly scenes.

Around a dozen home 'supporters' began making monkey noises towards the Trinidad and Tobago international within minutes of the start of the quarter-final tie.

The incident sparked ugly scenes within the main stand as outraged fellow Motherwell fans rounded on the racists.

The angry supporters quickly reported the small group to stewards and although they were not ejected from the ground, there was no more abuse directed at the player.

The Guardian

Jason Scotland enjoyed the last word towards a moronic element of the Motherwell support, the St Johnstone striker scoring the decisive goal here after racist chanting was directed towards him in the early stages of the game.

The opening stages were conspicuous for two things: St Johnstone's willingness to take the game to their opponents and the sickening abuse directed towards Scotland from a section of the main-stand crowd. Monkey noises were clearly audible and, while no police action appeared forthcoming, the fans in question were shouted down by those around them.
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: Andre on March 01, 2007, 11:42:57 AM
Motherwell apologise for racism

Motherwell have issued an apology to St Johnstone's Jason Scotland, following racist taunts directed at the player during Wednesday's Scottish Cup tie.

Scotland was subjected to abuse from a section of Motherwell fans during Saints' 2-1 victory at Fir Park.

Nearby supporters reported the offending fans and police intervened.

In a statement, Motherwell owner John Boyle said: "These people should never show their faces at Fir Park again and they have no place in football."

Boyle added: "We are utterly appalled by this behaviour by a small group of people who have tarnished the name of our club.

"We are writing to Jason Scotland and St Johnstone today to apologise for this disgusting behaviour which is totally alien to all of us at Motherwell.

We are utterly appalled by this behaviour by a small group of people who have tarnished the name of our club
Motherwell owner John Boyle

"We pride ourselves in being a family club which welcomes everyone to Fir Park.

"The police and stewards took what action they thought appropriate at the time.

"I was told there had been some kind of incident and it had been dealt with quickly but was unaware of the details and the seriousness of it.

"We are making further inquiries today to see if we can identify those involved in order to take action against them.

"We are appealing to our own supporters to help identify the culprits.

"I would be stunned if they are season ticket holders as there has been no evidence of this kind of behaviour in the past.

"We were disappointed to lose the match but we wish Jason Scotland and his team all the best in the Cup.

"They deserved their win and we are sorry if it was soured by the actions of a few idiots."

Martin Rose, chairman of the Motherwell Supporters Trust added: "We are united with the Club in condemning this repugnant behaviour in the strongest possible terms.

"I was in the main stand and raised the matter immediately with the match commander.

"Thankfully, it was nipped in the bud quickly by decent Motherwell fans, stewards and the police."

Story from BBC SPORT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/motherwell/6407937.stm

Published: 2007/03/01 11:58:50 GMT
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: Andre on March 01, 2007, 11:44:29 AM
http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/newsscript.pl?record=820

MOTHERWELL FC ANTI RACISM DEMONSTRATION AT FIR PARK

1st March 2007


Prior to kick-off at Monday’s SPL match against Hearts, Motherwell will make an official announcement to all fans at Fir Park that racist behaviour will not be tolerated with additional scoreboard statements underpinning this message.

During the warm up session, players from both teams will wear t-shirts with the slogan “Give Racism the Red Card” emblazoned on the front and players will hold up anti-racism cards to all spectators.

John Boyle, director of Motherwell FC said: “We endeavour to continue to offer a very friendly and family atmosphere at Fir Park and I believe that this was an isolated incident. Motherwell has no history of racist behaviour prior to Wednesday’s match. I hope that our anti-racism demonstration on Monday night outlines our commitment against such dreadful behaviour.”


 
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: Dutty on March 01, 2007, 05:45:30 PM
wow, dais an impressive turn of events

Respect to the true scottish football fans for smothering  the mouthbreathers



Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: trinbago on March 01, 2007, 08:07:47 PM
http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/newsscript.pl?record=820

MOTHERWELL FC ANTI RACISM DEMONSTRATION AT FIR PARK

1st March 2007


Prior to kick-off at Mondays SPL match against Hearts, Motherwell will make an official announcement to all fans at Fir Park that racist behaviour will not be tolerated with additional scoreboard statements underpinning this message.
During the warm up session, players from both teams will wear t-shirts with the slogan Give Racism the Red Card emblazoned on the front and players will hold up anti-racism cards to all spectators.

John Boyle, director of Motherwell FC said: We endeavour to continue to offer a very friendly and family atmosphere at Fir Park and I believe that this was an isolated incident. Motherwell has no history of racist behaviour prior to Wednesdays match. I hope that our anti-racism demonstration on Monday night outlines our commitment against such dreadful behaviour.
:applause: :applause:  here ! here! :beermug:
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: Daft Trini on March 01, 2007, 08:20:08 PM
Let de boots continue to do de talking bredda!  ;)

Warriors have your back!  :beermug:
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: legal alien on March 01, 2007, 08:44:10 PM
i didnt think that scottish football fans could exhibit open  racism......
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: legal alien on March 01, 2007, 08:50:14 PM
 i dint read the article properly before posting. it was only a minority . i tip my off to the motherwell club and its fans who did not condone it and went as far as apologising to jason scotland .
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: banton on March 01, 2007, 09:22:41 PM
never know racsim big so in scotland

well done to to motherwell fans :applause:


f**k de racist dem >:(
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: just cool on March 02, 2007, 12:42:53 AM
never know racsim big so in scotland

well done to to motherwell fans :applause:


f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!! that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: morvant on March 02, 2007, 12:52:28 AM
never know racsim big so in scotland

well done to to motherwell fans :applause:


f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!!  that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.

if yuh was ah military man yuh wouldnt say that. anywhere we go de women like black. ireland, mexico, australia, italy, spain(yes spain) bulgaria, romania. woman does line up just to dance with ah brother in ah club. in australia when ah carrier pull-up it does have women on de pier with signs up asking fuh brothers.

that is one ah de main reasons the MEN doh like we but to say nobody doh like black is ah semi-kakaholish statement. plus they love meh here in de motherland too.
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: morvant on March 02, 2007, 12:53:37 AM
CONGRATS SCOTTY

GO MALICK
[/b]
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: just cool on March 02, 2007, 01:19:54 AM
Wrong my brother . i served for one three year enlistment in the 1st armour division stationed at fort benning G.A. and baum holder west germany also fort hood texas it was the most depressing time of my life. yeh i banged alot of white chicks but that didn't mean racism did not exist in europe or in the U.S. and if you were a soldier you would know for sure what i mean . not because women want's to sex you don't necessarily mean they like you or ther'e not racist. if you're still not convinced then look at thomas jefferson.
never know racsim big so in scotland

well done to to motherwell fans :applause:


f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!! that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.

if yuh was ah military man yuh wouldnt say that. anywhere we go de women like black. ireland, mexico, australia, italy, spain(yes spain) bulgaria, romania. woman does line up just to dance with ah brother in ah club. in australia when ah carrier pull-up it does have women on de pier with signs up asking fuh brothers.

that is one ah de main reasons the MEN doh like we but to say nobody doh like black is ah semi-kakaholish statement. plus they love meh here in de motherland too.
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: morvant on March 02, 2007, 02:18:53 AM
Wrong my brother . i served for one three year enlistment in the 1st armour division stationed at fort benning G.A. and baum holder west germany also fort hood texas it was the most depressing time of my life. yeh i banged alot of white chicks but that didn't mean racism did not exist in europe or in the U.S. and if you were a soldier you would know for sure what i mean . not because women want's to sex you don't necessarily mean they like you or ther'e not racist. if you're still not convinced then look at thomas jefferson.
never know racsim big so in scotland

well done to to motherwell fans :applause:


f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!! that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.

if yuh was ah military man yuh wouldnt say that. anywhere we go de women like black. ireland, mexico, australia, italy, spain(yes spain) bulgaria, romania. woman does line up just to dance with ah brother in ah club. in australia when ah carrier pull-up it does have women on de pier with signs up asking fuh brothers.

that is one ah de main reasons the MEN doh like we but to say nobody doh like black is ah semi-kakaholish statement. plus they love meh here in de motherland too.


so that was ah racist wethead ah get in greece :-[

it all making sense now. she was into it too much :'(
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: rastafari on March 02, 2007, 05:52:28 AM
I remember the first time i witness racist monkey chants in Europe, this was in Berlin, Germany.
Hertha Berlin vs Cologne at the olympiastadion 1997, the home fans were making monkey chants at their own black players everytime they touched the ball, quite bizarre indeed but still racism.

Morvant doh get tie up with that one, not because somebody has sex with you it means that they like you.


JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: saga pinto on March 02, 2007, 06:14:43 AM
I remember the first time i witness racist monkey chants in Europe, this was in Berlin, Germany.
Hertha Berlin vs Cologne at the olympiastadion 1997, the home fans were making monkey chants at their own black players everytime they touched the ball, quite bizarre indeed but still racism.

Morvant doh get tie up with that one, not because somebody has sex with you it means that they like you.


JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

Well said my brother,we should not allowed our fragile egos to cloud our judgement,It may not even be that they like brothers,but in love with the idea of being with ah brother.

White women a black mans weakness,especially those in uniform.   
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: Midknight on March 02, 2007, 06:33:19 AM
number 20...
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism
Post by: just cool on March 02, 2007, 10:27:51 AM
MR Morvant if you want to get kicks i suggest you do so with another subject or another guy, because racism is all to real in my world and i deal with it every day on average and it's no laughing matter or no play thing either. i don't get into the disrespectfull confrontational discusions with any one period, BC it leads  to contempt and more disrespect, but i must say you're in serious denial and i'am begining to wonder about your identity. some ppl disguise them selves on line so they could get over to say and do things they could'nt normally say or do in public you have me wondering if that's the case with you, BC any black man or woman or those who considers them selves black who lived or is living in the US or europe would say racism does affect their lives in some shape or fashion. then again some ppl choose to turn a blind eye and act normal like every thing is every thing.i suggest that you go back in history and see what white ppl collectivly has done for the growth and development of black ppl as opposed to their down fall ( slavery countless linchings colonialism economic deprivation the rape and impovrishment of africa the caribbean and brazil ) then you tell me is that enough hate for you or you want more to be convinced. don't be so simple, sex has nothing to do with racism.            positive.
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism.
Post by: Tallman on March 04, 2007, 06:09:55 PM
MO: RACIST FANS SHOULD BE JAILED
By Gordon Parks (Daily Record)


MOTHERWELL boss Maurice Malpas last night called for racist fans to be jailed.

Malpas insists the police and courts should take tough action against those who brought shame to his club by racially abusing St Johnstone striker Jason Scotland on Wednesday.

And Celtic manager Gordon Strachan joined the debate by insisting Motherwell should not be held responsible for what happened.

Malpas revealed he will write his own apology. He said: "If we catch them, the police should get involved. If you behaved like that on the high street the police would arrest you so the same should apply here.

"We have done everything we can to find these people.We came out straight away with a statement and didn't stick our head in the sand.

"It can't be condoned or swept under the carpet because it's upsetting for the player. I will write to Jason myself.

"The pleasing thing is the other fans who pointed the finger. They are our true fans andthe culprits aren't.

"What happened has nothing to do with Motherwell and nothing to do with football.

"It was a one-off incident for us but it's a problem because it has happened. It could happen again but hopefully it won't.

"The difficult thing is to stop it but the best thing we can do now is point the finger at the people who did it and get them kicked out of the club.

"We will do something at Monday's game againstHearts to show racism the red card."

A Motherwell spokesman said: "Good information has come into the club from a variety of sources and we have passed all of it on to the police.

"We've been asked about pointing fans out on CCTV but it doesn't have sound.

"It would have been easier for us if this had been a normal home match with season-ticket holders sitting in their usual seats but anyone could pay to get into the ground and sit wherever they liked. We've had anonymous claims that the ground was infiltrated by supporters of a rival club intent on causing trouble and we have passed that on to the police."

Meanwhile, Strachan lashed out at the yob culture that he reckons led to Wednesday's shameful scenes.

Celtic's manager has had several run-ins with fans since returning to Scotland after two decades in England but he refuses to have racism linked with football.

He said: "The colour of the scarf is irrelevant. The fact this incident occured in a football ground is coincidental.

"People who are racists, bigots or morons are that way before they go into any ground. Don't blame Motherwell and look at the bigger picture.

"If you're a racist, you're a racist. The yob culture is creeping in everywhere."

Strachan has written about bust-ups at petrol stations with rival fans in his biography and recently clashed with three yobs in a cinema car park while out with his wife.

He said:"If someone spits at me in the street I don't look at the colour of the scarf they're wearing.It's an irrelevance.

"Some people think they have this licence to behave as they see fit.

"They walk into grounds and abuse players, managers and officials using any kind of language they like. But they would be equally objectionable outside and use the same language in pubs or whatever.

"If you ask me if there's a racism problem within Scottish football, then I would have to answer that I've never heard of one. Don't hold the game responsible for everything that goes wrong with society."
Title: Re: Scotland: Best reply to racism.
Post by: E-man on March 05, 2007, 07:29:31 PM
Ban for supporter accused of racism
MARTIN McMILLAN (Herald)


March 06 2007

A football supporter accused of racially abusing Jason Scotland, the St Johnstone striker, has been banned from all football grounds in the United Kingdom.

Six days after Scotland was subjected to racist chants during last week's Scottish Cup tie between St Johnstone and Motherwell at Fir Park, it is understood he may have been abused by a 59-year-old man during a match against Dundee at Dens Park on February 10.

The unnamed man, a season ticket holder of Dundee FC, was yesterday banned by the club, after pleading not guilty to a charge of aggravated breach of the peace at Dundee Sheriff Court.

He has been ordered to appear again at a later date, and a condition of bail is that he does not attempt to enter any football ground in the UK.

Dundee operations mana-ger, Jim Thomson, said: "We will reconsider the suspension if the man is found not guilty."

The club's board of directors issued a joint statement following the hearing, which read: "Following a complaint made to the club and Tayside Police by Dundee fans regarding alleged racial abuse of St Johnstone player Jason Scotland during February's game at Dens Park, a full investigation, carried out by police and the club, has resulted in a 59-year-old Dundee man being arrested and charged with an aggravated breach of the peace.

"The club were unable to make any comment or take any action until a full internal inquiry had been conducted."

Scotland became a cult hero in the country where he has played for the last four years after he was selected to play for Trinidad and Tobago during last year's World Cup.

Dundee yesterday issued an apology to Scotland, and his club, saying they will "not tolerate racist, sectarian, sexual or bigoted harassment".
Title: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: skins on September 16, 2007, 07:42:47 AM
Falkirk midfielder Russell Latapy hopes that anyone who racially abused him during Saturday's 1-1 draw with Hibernian will learn from their errors.
The club have confirmed police were investigating an incident, although there has been no further comment.

"We have to take it in our stride and hopefully the people involved will learn from what they did," said Latapy.

"We have to try and make the situation better and try to cut out the whole racial situation in football."

Reports suggest five people were questioned by police officers.

And a club statement read: "An incident occurred which is currently under investigation by Central Scotland Police.

"Falkirk Football Club along with other SPL football clubs have published a code of 'unacceptable behaviour'.

"The incident was dealt with in accordance with this code."

Latapy, 39, is a former Trinidad & Tobago international and has played in Scotland for Hibs, Rangers and Dundee United before his move to Falkirk in 2003.

"It is unfortunate in this day and age that things like that can still happen but it's all part and parcel of the beautiful game," added the veteran playmaker.

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/f/falkirk/6997553.stm
Title: Latapy victim of racial abuse
Post by: Feliziano on September 16, 2007, 08:43:05 AM
Falkirk midfielder Russell Latapy hopes that anyone who racially abused him during the 1-1 draw with Hibernian will learn from their errors.

Falkirk confirmed police were investigating an incident during the Clydesdale Bank Premier League clash at the Falkirk Stadium.

Reports claimed a Falkirk fan was among five people questioned by officers.

But former Trinidad and Tobago hero Latapy - a former Hibs player - was in a forgiving mood.

The 39-year-old said: "I heard about it after the game. It is unfortunate in this day and age that things like that can still happen but it's all part and parcel of the beautiful game.

"We have to take it in our stride and hopefully the people involved will learn from what they did.

"We have to try and make the situation better and try to cut out the whole racial situation in football.

"Having said that, we have to learn to forgive and hopefully we can all learn from it."

A club statement read: "An incident occurred today which is currently under investigation by Central Scotland Police.

"Falkirk Football Club along with other SPL football clubs have published a code of 'unacceptable behaviour'.

"The incident was dealt with in accordance with this code."

Central Scotland Police were today unavailable for comment.
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: RGarcia on September 16, 2007, 10:24:24 AM
 :shameonyou: :shameonyou: :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Bakes on September 16, 2007, 10:25:19 AM
Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: kicker on September 16, 2007, 12:17:39 PM
Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few should define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.

Even in the most tolerant society there will always be idiots.....

Very unfortunate- pretty sure Latapy dealt with it in a classy manner
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Bakes on September 16, 2007, 12:34:50 PM
Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few should define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.

Even in the most tolerant society there will always be idiots.....

Very unfortunate- pretty sure Latapy dealt with it in a classy manner
Meant to say "shouldn't define the whole"...changed it, but I think you got what I meant.
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: just cool on September 16, 2007, 02:42:50 PM
Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even the brits are more tolerant than the scotts when it come to diversity, and the irish!! well forget about them, my key breddren lived in ireland for a number of years, he was married to an irish chick who forced him to move closer to her family, so he left sunny badoes to cloudy gloomy ireland. he told me that he'll never make that mistake again and how horribly racist the irish were, this comming from a man who lived in new jersey for over a dacade. so he's back in Barbados wid his new wife, guess where she's from. that's right , scottland.
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Bakes on September 16, 2007, 03:33:44 PM
Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even the brits are more tolerant than the scotts when it come to diversity, and the irish!! well forget about them, my key breddren lived in ireland for a number of years, he was married to an irish chick who forced him to move closer to her family, so he left sunny badoes to cloudy gloomy ireland. he told me that he'll never make that mistake again and how horribly racist the irish were, this comming from a man who lived in new jersey for over a dacade. so he's back in Barbados wid his new wife, guess where she's from. that's right , scottland.

Lol...

Well the irish I can understand, even the English once thought of them as apes...so nothing new about the oppressed themselves becoming oppressor when given the opportunity. Why you think they enjoy such strained relations with blacks here in America? They finally found a people who in the eyes of the mainstream, were lower down the ethnic totem pole than themselves.
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Big Magician on September 16, 2007, 04:11:36 PM
should we put our army on alert ???....ah mean this is not manning or panday yuh know...this is royalty
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Small Magician aka Wazza on September 16, 2007, 09:40:33 PM
should we put our army on alert ???....ah mean this is not manning or panday yuh know...this is royalty

 Fuh real lol
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Blue on September 17, 2007, 01:36:01 AM
Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even the brits are more tolerant than the scotts when it come to diversity, and the irish!! well forget about them, my key breddren lived in ireland for a number of years, he was married to an irish chick who forced him to move closer to her family, so he left sunny badoes to cloudy gloomy ireland. he told me that he'll never make that mistake again and how horribly racist the irish were, this comming from a man who lived in new jersey for over a dacade. so he's back in Barbados wid his new wife, guess where she's from. that's right , scottland.

Where do you come up wid dis shit.

1. They are Scots, not Scotts
2. Scots are Brits, since Scotland is a part of the British Isles
3. How on earth does your story prove that Scots are racist?

Title: Two held over Falkirk abuse probe
Post by: Tallman on September 17, 2007, 10:10:02 AM
Two held over Falkirk abuse probe
BBC Sport


Two football fans are due to appear in court after being charged with racially aggravated breaches of the peace at Falkirk's SPL match against Hibernian.

The men, a 49-year-old Hibs supporter and a Falkirk fan, 41, were arrested and remanded in custody following Saturday's game.

Falkirk midfielder Russell Latapy was allegedly racially abused during the 1-1 draw.

The men are among five set to appear at Falkirk Sheriff Court on Monday.

A spokesman for Central Scotland Police said four Hibs supporters had been arrested, including the man charged with the racially motivated offence against Latapy.

The other three, a 49-year-old man, another of 46, and a third, aged 30, were charged with breaches of the peace.

The Falkirk supporter, not linked to the other four men, was arrested following reports from supporters to police that he had shouted racist abuse.

Police detained the 41-year-old away from the stadium on Saturday evening after being notified of the alleged offence by home supporters after the match.

Latapy, 39, is a former Trinidad and Tobago international and played for Hibs, Rangers and Dundee United before his move to Falkirk in 2003.
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Andre on September 17, 2007, 10:29:37 AM
and they go get off with a slap on the wrist.
Title: Re: Latapy at centre of racism probe
Post by: Bakes on September 17, 2007, 12:34:58 PM
and they go get off with a slap on the wrist.
What penalty do you think would suffice for shouting racial abuse at someone?

Let's not get carried away, likely they'll be banned from the stadium...that works for me.
Title: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Bally on November 02, 2007, 05:11:27 PM
Player quits club over racist abuse
 
AFP
November 2, 2007
BRUSSELS (AFP) - A black African player at FC Brussels has walked out after allegedly being racially abused by the Belgian club's president Johan Vermeersch.

According to Zola Matumona's lawyer, the Congolese secured a release from his contract following: "racist and xenophobic abuse dished out in front of players and coaching staff."

Vermeersch lambasted his players for their poor performances but during his rebuke he reportedly told Matumona to think about other things than "trees and bananas."

ADVERTISEMENT
 
 
The incident has seen the club's kit sponsor, South Korean car manufacturer Kia tear up their contract with FC Brussels.

"This incident is such that we can no longer have our image associated with the Brussels club," said Kia's regional manager Benoit Morenne to the Belga news agency.

"We don't want to be associated in any way with racism."

Vermeersch, however, denied on the club's website having made racist comments, although he admitted to having lively exchanges with certain players, including Matumona.

"And if someone has felt hurt by my words then I am sorry because that was never my intention," said Vermeersch.

He did, however, tell Le Soir newspaper that he had spoken of trees and bananas but that it was nothing more than "a joke" to make the player react.

FC Brussels are 15th in the 18-team league after 11 matches having lost eight of those games.




Updated on Friday, Nov 2, 2007 2:39 pm, EDT

Email to a Friend | View Popular
 
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Bally on November 02, 2007, 05:13:41 PM
joke this F*%$%$ing MAN HAS TO GO >:( >:(
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: SOBRIQUET on November 02, 2007, 05:33:04 PM
just when yuh begin to think that people are getting educated and learn from past mistakes......they does make some assanine comments that does put yuh right back in check..... don't frighten, we know is only hate in allyuh heart.....but we will trod on.....
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: PantherX on November 02, 2007, 06:00:11 PM
As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.

Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key  being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Diambars on November 02, 2007, 06:31:08 PM
As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.

Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.

Yes there re laws, but do not make people think it is that simple.  Remember Don Imus, a radio talk show host, made his racial comments against the black baskeball players on the Rudytgers women team and for it he got paid twenty million and was given a new job at ABC.
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Tongue on November 02, 2007, 08:15:41 PM
Player quits club over racist abuse
 
AFP
November 2, 2007
BRUSSELS (AFP) - A black African player at FC Brussels has walked out after allegedly being racially abused by the Belgian club's president Johan Vermeersch.

According to Zola Matumona's lawyer, the Congolese secured a release from his contract following: "racist and xenophobic abuse dished out in front of players and coaching staff."

Vermeersch lambasted his players for their poor performances but during his rebuke he reportedly told Matumona to think about other things than "trees and bananas."

ADVERTISEMENT
 
 
The incident has seen the club's kit sponsor, South Korean car manufacturer Kia tear up their contract with FC Brussels.

"This incident is such that we can no longer have our image associated with the Brussels club," said Kia's regional manager Benoit Morenne to the Belga news agency.

"We don't want to be associated in any way with racism."

Vermeersch, however, denied on the club's website having made racist comments, although he admitted to having lively exchanges with certain players, including Matumona.

"And if someone has felt hurt by my words then I am sorry because that was never my intention," said Vermeersch.

He did, however, tell Le Soir newspaper that he had spoken of trees and bananas but that it was nothing more than "a joke" to make the player react.

FC Brussels are 15th in the 18-team league after 11 matches having lost eight of those games.




Updated on Friday, Nov 2, 2007 2:39 pm, EDT

Email to a Friend | View Popular
 


de man say is nutten more than a joke oui!...guess wen dem people in de stands making dem sounds he does be dying with laffter in de owners suite eh! steeeeeeupes
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Jahyouth on November 02, 2007, 08:18:47 PM
As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.

Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.

That is old talk PantherX.  Don Imus of "nappy headed hoes" fame is back on the radio starting December 3rd.  Consequences my @#!
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Bakes on November 02, 2007, 11:20:47 PM
I doh see nutten wid de man comments...




dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: WestCoast on November 03, 2007, 07:51:13 AM
"The incident has seen the club's kit sponsor, South Korean car manufacturer Kia tear up their contract with FC Brussels."
when MORE sponsors do this then maybe people will stop day shit
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: SUPA on November 03, 2007, 12:34:31 PM
BULLATE, BULLATE, no prisoners, none at all, BULLATE. HIGHLY BLESSED.
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: FLi ! on November 03, 2007, 02:37:58 PM
I doh see nutten wid de man comments...




dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.

nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Bakes on November 03, 2007, 04:04:43 PM
I doh see nutten wid de man comments...




dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.

nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment

Lol...I know nuff man dun cuss me and storm off in silence  ;D
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: WestCoast on November 03, 2007, 04:06:04 PM
I doh see nutten wid de man comments...




dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.

nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment

Lol...I know nuff man dun cuss me and storm off in silence ;D
:whistling:
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Toppa on November 03, 2007, 04:12:09 PM
I doh see nutten wid de man comments...




dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.

nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment

Lol...I know nuff man dun cuss me and storm off in silence ;D
:whistling:

lol
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: legal alien on November 03, 2007, 04:15:43 PM
this is belgian league. in spain africans have to deal with foolishness this from their own fans while the game plays. and they're in a way bigger league.
my point is they don't quit as quickly..
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Savannah boy on November 03, 2007, 07:20:36 PM
Yuh know when Platini was playing, de French man was blaming de selectors after de WC and was saying too many man on de team who not born in France....a clear reference to Tresor and Tigana.  Just look at de French team now.   :rotfl:
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: FLi ! on November 03, 2007, 07:44:55 PM
this is belgian league. in spain  africans have to deal with foolishness this  from their own  fans while the game plays.    and they're in  a way bigger league.
my point is they don't quit as quickly..

Yea well, while I am not condoning it, in any way, shape or form, the racism by fans is very difficult to control. Difficulties lie in identifying fans and sometimes the number of fans  make enforcement of any baning orders difficult to enforce.

Additionally, the legislation in these countries is not as advanced as say the Football Spectators Act 1991 here in the UK which deals specifically with racist chanting and even the conviction rate here for these offences is extremely low.

That being said, it is one thing to have your fans saying stuff like that to you, it's  entirely another thing for your PRESIDENT to be saying that to your face, in front of your colleagues. Here in the UK, there is workplace legislation which protects workers from that sort of employer reproach/bullying
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Touches on November 05, 2007, 08:27:24 AM
I know how that player feels because I walked out a wuk same way due to chupid comments just so.

I was in London in 2001...working for an accounting firm...first day on the job.

The Manager says....Oh you are from Trinidad...do you all live in trees?

 :o

So me with meh f**k up self start conversation...."Why yes I do in fact I have quite a nice bungalow at home, I did over the roof from thatch and put in some new palm fronds."

So when the woman co workers watching her with they eye open she start up...so do you know anything about steel and concrete down there?

I smiled and said, well...we have a trade embargo and these things cannot be imported. But it floods alot so we like living in trees.

Then the Imps go say...so why did you leave your little island to come up here?

"I watch her and said well the Americans have come into the island and are cutting down all our trees and now we dont have much places to live."

Now her 2-3 co-workers in the office watching her in horror..watching me ahow, cause dey ent know if I serious or not.

That was about 9:15 in the morning during my walkabout tour. I get an assignment to reconcile some figures..I sit by the puter and I type up meh resignation  letter easy easy.

I play some games on the puter solitair and minesweeper...Internet wasn't around then and lunchtime I ride yes.

A time I was in Devon in the only shopping center and a lil girl walk up to me and rub my skin and ask how I am a different colour. The mother run and tell me sorry and said ..shes never seen someone like you before..we dont have a telly at home.

Doh talk bout a time I make a bus drive from NY to Canada for Caribana and I hop out in a truck stop somewhere around Buffalo....boy if yuh see how Jethro, Shep and Hem jaw drop when they see us.

I have about 6-7 London racism stories and even more in FL post 9-11 but you just have to tell yourself they have plenty jackarse in the world and I am thankful I grow up in a country where people are tolerant of each other and I have travelled further than my neightbourhood store.

You must just leave them alone.
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Peong on November 05, 2007, 08:58:30 AM
Touches that is f**ked up.
Ah know some ppl feel dougla is arab.
What happen in FL?
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Phensic on November 05, 2007, 01:22:03 PM
Touches, thats some amazing restraint on your part...Iz funny, the only time I have ever been called a nigger was in my own country by a spoil rich trini-white gyaul (who didn't know her ass from her elbow) in Pelos car park...I have been living in Boston for over 6 years now and have been around more white people than ever before, and to date, not once have I been on the receiving end of a racial slur...

But ah still young so yuh never know!

 :beermug:
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: Bakes on November 05, 2007, 01:45:20 PM
I know how that player feels because I walked out a wuk same way due to chupid comments just so.

I was in London in 2001...working for an accounting firm...first day on the job.

The Manager says....Oh you are from Trinidad...do you all live in trees?

 :o

So me with meh f**k up self start conversation...."Why yes I do in fact I have quite a nice bungalow at home, I did over the roof from thatch and put in some new palm fronds."

So when the woman co workers watching her with they eye open she start up...so do you know anything about steel and concrete down there?

I smiled and said, well...we have a trade embargo and these things cannot be imported. But it floods alot so we like living in trees.

Then the Imps go say...so why did you leave your little island to come up here?

"I watch her and said well the Americans have come into the island and are cutting down all our trees and now we dont have much places to live."

Now her 2-3 co-workers in the office watching her in horror..watching me ahow, cause dey ent know if I serious or not.

That was about 9:15 in the morning during my walkabout tour. I get an assignment to reconcile some figures..I sit by the puter and I type up meh resignation letter easy easy.

I play some games on the puter solitair and minesweeper...Internet wasn't around then and lunchtime I ride yes.

A time I was in Devon in the only shopping center and a lil girl walk up to me and rub my skin and ask how I am a different colour. The mother run and tell me sorry and said ..shes never seen someone like you before..we dont have a telly at home.

Doh talk bout a time I make a bus drive from NY to Canada for Caribana and I hop out in a truck stop somewhere around Buffalo....boy if yuh see how Jethro, Shep and Hem jaw drop when they see us.

I have about 6-7 London racism stories and even more in FL post 9-11 but you just have to tell yourself they have plenty jackarse in the world and I am thankful I grow up in a country where people are tolerant of each other and I have travelled further than my neightbourhood store.

You must just leave them alone.

Most of what you decribe isn't racism though.
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: giggsy11 on November 05, 2007, 01:57:44 PM
As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.

Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.

Doh talk up de US about consequences regarding racism on jobs. Twice in the past weeks nooses were used to make a point involving blacks and whites. One geh suspended and the other still have a job.
Title: Re: Player quits club over racist abuse
Post by: giggsy11 on November 05, 2007, 02:18:38 PM
Whatever the manager's motives were for saying what he said, appear to imply a lack of knowledge, ability to interact with someone from a different country and of a different race.  It was also real dotish of him to use words that the player would associate with racism. He apparently has not learn how to be a suttle racist yet!
Title: Latapy shows racism the red card
Post by: Tallman on February 07, 2008, 07:09:51 AM
Show racism the red card
Falkirk Herald


(http://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/getEdImage.aspx?ImageID=1317963&imagesize=1)


FALKIRK star Russell Latapy visited Kinnaird Primary yesterday (Wednesday) to launch the latest Show Racism the Red Card inititative.

Already up and running in local secondary schools, the scheme backed by the football club, BairnsTrust, Falkirk Council's Education Department and the Central Scotland Racial Equality Council, will now roll-out workshops to primary pupils in the area.

They are designed to provide children with a historical background on racism and promote equality of opportunity and good relations between people of different racial groups, while working towards the elimination of discrimination.

Latapy, who held a question and answer session with the children, is pictured above with 10-year-old pupils Alysa Hay and Aiden Miller.
Title: Re: Latapy shows racism the red card
Post by: Big Magician on February 07, 2008, 03:37:51 PM
latasssssssssssssssssssssssss
Title: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Andre on February 25, 2008, 09:26:27 AM
man to man is so unjust.

By Kennedy Gondwe
BBC Sport, Lusaka

The campaign for the Football Association of Zambia (Faz) presidency is being marred by racial slurs on one of the candidates.

Zambian legend Kalusha Bwalya, lawyer Anthony Kasolo and Hanif Adams, a businessman of Indian origin, are contesting the 29 March poll.

But there has been opposition to Adams' candidature in the local media on the basis of his race.

Individuals have argued that despite Adams being Zambian (he was born in eastern Zambia), Faz should not be run by foreigners.

One of them says: "For the sake of national pride and patriotism, Faz should be run by indigenous black Zambians and not Indians or Pakistanis."

Adams, who owns top flight club Lusaka Dynamos, admits he is disappointed with the remarks.

"I am very disappointed for people bringing race issues into matters of football or any matter concerning the development of any country," he told BBC Sport.

"I have never thought I was regarded as an Indian, I always believe I am a Zambian because I was born and bred here.

"I have never been to India since I was born 54 years ago."

"It hurts me when people say that," he added.

"For the last 29 years, I have developed indigenous Zambian players who are thriving because of my efforts."

Despite the attacks, Adams says he will not back down on his Faz ambition.

One of Adams' opponents, Anthony Kasolo, has condemned the racist remarks.

"Legally speaking, being indigenous is neither here nor there because we all came from different places," Kasolo said.

"It's being petty and it's unfortunate that a campaign should go that dirty."


Story from BBC SPORT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/football/africa/7262763.stm

Published: 2008/02/25 11:50:30 GMT
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Jayerson on February 25, 2008, 10:30:23 AM
Total crap. If it was the other way around, you would seen how many people on this forum would have condemned it. Steups. These same Zambians, if an individual from their diaspora were to be in a similar situation in  Europe or elsewhere, you would have heard a ruckus.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Ponnoxx on February 25, 2008, 10:42:05 AM
 Its nonsense and was totally uncalled for but its a result of seein people enjoy your country for too long while you wallow in poverty all your life...However the guy is Zambian and should be treated as any other candidate
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: KND2 on February 25, 2008, 10:57:09 AM
Sad but true and as a trini you should understand this because the same thing will happen in TnT.

If an indian run for president of the TTFF people will say "What Indian know bout football"

The same problems exsist in Zambia that exsist in Tnt when comes to race.

When people see a Indian he is a Indian, when people see an African, he is an African.

People see race and not Citizenship,
Sad but True


The only cure for racism is blindness and even then that may not work.

They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Jayerson on February 25, 2008, 12:06:05 PM
Sunil Gulati (US Soccer Federation President) seems to be doing a good job. Meritocracy, is so hard?
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Dutty on February 25, 2008, 03:27:18 PM


They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.


How dat go improve racism?...de only ting dat go do is make 'red man' dissappear.....and make HDTV ah waste of time
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: DeSoWa on February 25, 2008, 04:35:00 PM


They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.


How dat go improve racism?...de only ting dat go do is make 'red man' dissappear.....and make HDTV ah waste of time

ah doh think we want to IMPROVE racism, but maybe we could try to ERADICATE it  :D  ;D

Big Up!
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Dutty on February 25, 2008, 06:01:44 PM
Lawd ! I jus realise what ah type dey oui  :-[  :D

All de redneck lurkers mus be did thought dey had ah inside ally  :D
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: kicker on February 25, 2008, 06:53:07 PM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Grande on February 25, 2008, 08:44:31 PM
For those who playing ignorant
Talking 'bout true African descendant
If yuh want to know de truth
Take ah trip back to yuh roots
And somewhere on that journey
Yuh go see ah man in a dhoti
Saying he prayers in front of a jhandi, jhandi

Kumayah-o
Zindawey-o
Kumayah Zindawey Ayayo...
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: fishs on February 26, 2008, 12:20:40 AM
Sad but true and as a trini you should understand this because the same thing will happen in TnT.

If an indian run for president of the TTFF people will say "What Indian know bout football"
The same problems exsist in Zambia that exsist in Tnt when comes to race.

When people see a Indian he is a Indian, when people see an African, he is an African.

People see race and not Citizenship,
Sad but True


The only cure for racism is blindness and even then that may not work.

They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.


Now that is the dumbest statement you've come up with to date.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: just cool on February 26, 2008, 03:21:24 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: fishs on February 26, 2008, 03:40:37 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html

Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: just cool on February 26, 2008, 04:05:30 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html

Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: fishs on February 26, 2008, 04:35:44 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html

Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.

The politicians perpetuate the race talk to the masses to keep their "tribal " base, they know the majority of Trinis would not do any research or travel further than the Caribbean, the States or Canada for a trip or holiday and therefore not be able to interact with the diverse cultures that make up the world and by so doing question the stupidness that comes out of their leaders mouths.
I recently worked with Sri Lankans and Indians and what was shocking to me was how much some of them looked like me. I played SOCA to the Sri Lankan and he said they have music that sounds similar and he played a couple songs on his guitar for me and the beat was like Kaiso.
The birth place of civilisation travelled and in left the basis of black culture all over thus the similarities.
When a conqueror is tolerant and allows cultures to develop naturally an empire is built but when a conqueror is intolerant and imposes his own morality on peoples he is destined for the dust bin of history.

Dais actually my quote.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: just cool on February 26, 2008, 05:18:22 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html

Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.

The politicians perpetuate the race talk to the masses to keep their "tribal " base, they know the majority of Trinis would not do any research or travel further than the Caribbean, the States or Canada for a trip or holiday and therefore not be able to interact with the diverse cultures that make up the world and by so doing question the stupidness that comes out of their leaders mouths.
I recently worked with Sri Lankans and Indians and what was shocking to me was how much some of them looked like me. I played SOCA to the Sri Lankan and he said they have music that sounds similar and he played a couple songs on his guitar for me and the beat was like Kaiso.
The birth place of civilisation travelled and in left the basis of black culture all over thus the similarities.
When a conqueror is tolerant and allows cultures to develop naturally an empire is built but when a conqueror is intolerant and imposes his own morality on peoples he is destined for the dust bin of history.

Dais actually my quote. ;D ;D
As yuh know it have fellas on this site who like to demonize I like if i wrote history, when all i'm doing is repeating it. fellas does call me a racist, but all i'm doing is telling them what happened in the anals of time, it's almost like they hate the truth for some reason , or the truth does take them out of their comfort zone into a area of harsh reality. i remember when i was around 13yrs old my breddren dex became a radical muslim and black nationalist, he went from being fun to be around till i started avoiding him, even hating to see him at times.

 he would talk about black history and how whites hid so much things from us to keep us ignorant so they could continue to oppress us, bredder could you imagine telling this to a brain washed sheltered 13 yrs old. when i came to the realization that he was telling me the truth, i almost lost my mind. i think i was about 15 when i heard the same things from a NJAC member whom i respected which caused me to accept the truth about life and imbrace truth instead of running from it.

ppl who i was taught to hate were actually ppl that was fighting agianst oppression. then i realize that the ppl i was thought to love were the ones who helped in oppressing the masses, like the catholic church, i thought the priest was like the most revered person on the earth, until my boy told me to ask him about praying to statues , and eating pork,BC in their own bible it was said , don't bow to idols, but in the church has statues of every kind and ppl pray to them.

 in the said bible it states don't eat swine , but they do it anyway, and without conviction, the priest was lest dumb founded and could not give an appropiate answer. i think at that moment i was set free from my shackles, all these things made me question my parents and realize that my parents was brained washed worst than me, BC even though you showed them proof , they still continued along the same path.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Observer on February 26, 2008, 08:04:08 AM
Racism exist throught the World and has existed throughout the history of man. It is not a African, Indian thing or African, Caucasian thing. Just ask the peoples of China, former Yugoslavia, Sudan, Rwanda, Russia, Congo, Zimbabwe etc etc.

Me! Though I am willing to discuss it, will not let it and have never allowed it to dictate to me in anyway. Maybe it is because I am getting older, but the longer I live is the more I firmly believe that sectarianism, statism, aristocracy, racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, like religion, is nothing more than a tools of the HAVES to keep the HAVE NOTS divided.

Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: WestCoast on February 26, 2008, 08:14:33 AM
the HAVES to keep the HAVE NOTS divided.
is not racism, buh look how Jackula does treat the overwhelming amount of footballers in TnT.
He have,
he keeping and
dem ent getten nutten........OK sorry, he givin dem $5,000 ::)

and to reminds those who forgot.............dat is from $173,000,000 TT :o
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: TrinInfinite on February 26, 2008, 08:30:48 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html

Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop  (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian  ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.

The politicians perpetuate the race talk to the masses to keep their "tribal " base, they know the majority of Trinis would not do any research or travel further than the Caribbean, the States or Canada for a trip or holiday and therefore not be able to interact with the diverse cultures that make up the world and by so doing question the stupidness that comes out of their leaders mouths.
I recently worked with Sri Lankans and Indians and what was shocking to me was how much some of them looked like me. I played SOCA to the Sri Lankan and he said they have music that sounds similar and he played a couple songs on his guitar for me and the beat was like Kaiso.
The birth place of civilisation travelled and in left the basis of black culture all over thus the similarities.
When a conqueror is tolerant and allows cultures to develop naturally an empire is built but when a conqueror is intolerant and imposes his own morality on peoples he is destined for the dust bin of history.

Dais actually my quote.  ;D ;D
As yuh know it have fellas on this site who like to demonize I like if i wrote history, when all i'm doing is repeating it. fellas does call me a racist, but all i'm doing is telling them what happened in the anals of time, it's almost like they hate the truth for some reason , or the truth does take them out of their comfort zone into a area of harsh reality. i remember when i was around 13yrs old my breddren dex became a radical muslim and black nationalist, he went from being fun to be around till i started avoiding him, even hating to see him at times.

 he would talk about black history  and how whites hid so much things from us to keep us ignorant so they could continue to oppress us, bredder could you imagine telling this to a brain washed sheltered 13 yrs old. when i came to the realization that he was telling me the truth, i almost lost my mind. i think i was about 15 when i heard the same things from a NJAC member whom i respected which caused me to accept the truth about life and imbrace truth instead of running from it.

ppl who i was taught to hate were actually ppl that was fighting agianst oppression. then i realize that the ppl i was thought to love were the ones who helped in oppressing the masses, like the catholic church, i thought the priest was like the most revered person on the earth, until my boy told me to ask him about praying to statues , and eating pork,BC in their own bible it was said , don't bow to idols, but in the church has statues of every kind and ppl pray to them.

 in the said bible it states don't eat swine , but they do it anyway, and without conviction, the priest was lest dumb founded and could not give an appropiate answer. i think at that moment i was set free from my shackles, all these things made me question my parents and realize that my parents was brained washed worst than me, BC even though you showed them proof , they still continued along the same path.

the truth does offend, i have read alot of indian history and african, the aryans did institute the class system from northern india to central, the original dravidians were pushed to the south and sri lanka, i think people need to read more history, it needs to be taught more in schools, people would then realize that everyone is the same and were all connected and politics and money has divided many of us...

God is de BOSS....
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Bakes on February 26, 2008, 08:37:02 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

De man say Africans have issues with Indians...and you tell him tuh talk sense as though what he saying is schupidness?? steups

Den come preach ah whole setta talk about 'why'? Who cares??

Okay so de colonial powers foster ah divide and conquer mentality...what dat have to do with the price ah tea in china? does that in any way invalidate Kicker's statement? Everywhere Indians are in Africa they are seen as opportunists who come into Africa (regardless as to whether they born Africa or not) and profiting off the back of black people. Come to think of it, many people in Trinidad have the same backward thinking. Is how long now Idi Amin say "Africa is for Africans"?? This ent going on now, and irrespective as to 'why' it going on POINT IS IT GOING ON and it facked up.

'Why' doh friggin matter at this point.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Filho on February 26, 2008, 09:14:10 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

j. cool, be that as it may..it doesn't change the fact that what kicker says is true and it does not change the fact that it is sad. it's not a statement that assigns blame or ignores the root of the issue. Nor does it imply ignorance of the roots of such a condition. It is simply an observation. We can make observations without having to go into the history of it all...I don't see you going into a full diatribe on every observation you make. Maybe you should in order to be talking sense right?
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Big Magician on February 26, 2008, 09:27:38 AM
at least Zambia have 3 men going up for elections.....in tnt we cant even try a racial slur....
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: rastafari on February 26, 2008, 11:27:16 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

De man say Africans have issues with Indians...and you tell him tuh talk sense as though what he saying is schupidness?? steups

Den come preach ah whole setta talk about 'why'? Who cares??

Okay so de colonial powers foster ah divide and conquer mentality...what dat have to do with the price ah tea in china? does that in any way invalidate Kicker's statement? Everywhere Indians are in Africa they are seen as opportunists who come into Africa (regardless as to whether they born Africa or not) and profiting off the back of black people. Come to think of it, many people in Trinidad have the same backward thinking. Is how long now Idi Amin say "Africa is for Africans"?? This ent going on now, and irrespective as to 'why' it going on POINT IS IT GOING ON and it facked up.

'Why' doh friggin matter at this point.

  Tell dem bake and shark! Tell dem!
Set of hypocrites flooding the board. Them fellas don't realise we is a family on here.

There is all types of people on here. some are black, white, chinese, indian, mixed etc. Some are rich,middle class or lower class.

I forgot some are from the same colonial families that use to run Trinidad and Tobago.
They doen't say anything but don't think that they don't feel offended.

Respect the diversity on here and stop trying to race bash.

JAH BLESS RASTAFARI

Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Observer on February 26, 2008, 11:47:20 AM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

De man say Africans have issues with Indians...and you tell him tuh talk sense as though what he saying is schupidness?? steups

Den come preach ah whole setta talk about 'why'? Who cares??

Okay so de colonial powers foster ah divide and conquer mentality...what dat have to do with the price ah tea in china? does that in any way invalidate Kicker's statement? Everywhere Indians are in Africa they are seen as opportunists who come into Africa (regardless as to whether they born Africa or not) and profiting off the back of black people. Come to think of it, many people in Trinidad have the same backward thinking. Is how long now Idi Amin say "Africa is for Africans"?? This ent going on now, and irrespective as to 'why' it going on POINT IS IT GOING ON and it facked up.

'Why' doh friggin matter at this point.

 ;D ;D Ent!
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: just cool on February 26, 2008, 03:58:08 PM
To all the subjetive minded batty holes who like to run up they stink mouth and talk out of contex, take this.
when the colonial master dicided to leave their colonies to the poor bastards they oppressed for centuries, and for what ever reason like in indo china they were met with fierce resistance for total inependence that left those ppl war torn for half a century.

those ppl had no good intentions when they abandon their colonies. the french left their colonies in africa and indo china in a mess, there was no funding whatsoever and apart from that, they left division amoungst the ppl so they could continue to have a hold on their ecconomy and ties to them without the responsibility of care taking.

just ask rowandans, when did they started fighting each other, was it pre or post colonialism. the belgians deliberatly put the huto against the tutsi's , as a matter of fact they are one ppl , it's the belgians who created huto and tutsi according to my tutsi friend. same for palestine. the british brought in millions of jews from europe into palestine and caused a war that still exist today, same with the french in vietnam and in laos.

as for the west indies and africa , the british brought identured workers from china, portugal and india, they propergated the idea to them that blacks are extremly lazy and don't want to work, so we have to bring you ppl here to do what they hate doing. they also told them that black ppl have all sorts of deseases, they are part animal and they should not mix with them,they also spread the rumor that black men love to rape and they are the lowest cast on the earth. forever putting a wedge between black chinese and indian to this day in all their colonies.

in the british west indies they left us penny less, my great aunt said in colonial and post colonial times the country was so poor and destitute especially places like behind the bridge, she said there was no land distribution whatsoever in the p.o.s area, every thing was own by the crown , even post colonial time.

those ppl was denied proper education and employment opportunities, most of the poor was black and indigenous ppl, most black ppl were relegated to jobs such as gardeners, maids, and labourers. all the pleasant jobs were given to frechcreoles , whites , portuegese and chinese.

 is only when pnm took over did things change a little , more change came during the 1970 up rising with dagga and CO. is lucky trinidad & tobago lucky we had oil and gas, if we didn't have that , we would've been as poor as guyana, BC the britsh left those islands without any kind of funding to function as an independent country. and the IMF is a differant monster all together, just ask jamiaca and mexico.

now you tell me that the truth is now and the past is obselete, so could the truth of the present exist without the past!! i really couldv'e explain this better to monkies and thay would've got it the first time around, is either fellas like talk and want to gang up , of which i don't care , do you! or they eat to much ah granny pig tail soup, and it kill their overstanding. now lets see how much of the feable minded would ignore the heights and eat up the slop.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Daft Trini on February 26, 2008, 04:12:24 PM
Some ah all yuh need to read "The Economic Aspect of the West Indian Slave Trade and Slavery" Dr Eric Williams followed by a healthy dose of "History of the People of Trinidad and Tobago"

I doh care what race you are "if you need help to lift ah stone, I dey" black, mixed and proud too... ;D
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: kicker on February 26, 2008, 04:14:24 PM
To all the subjetive minded batty holes who like to run up they stink mouth and talk out of contex, take this.
when the colonial master dicided to leave their colonies to the poor bastards they oppressed for centuries, and for what ever reason like in indo china they were met with fierce resistance for total inependence that left those ppl war torn for half a century.

those ppl had no good intentions when they abandon their colonies. the french left their colonies in africa and indo china in a mess, there was no funding whatsoever and apart from that, they left division amoungst the ppl so they could continue to have a hold on their ecconomy and ties to them without the responsibility of care taking.

just ask rowandans when they started fighting each other, was it pre or post colonialism. the belgians deliberatly put the huto against the tutsi's , as a matter of fact they are one ppl , it's the belgians who created huto and tutsi according to my tutsi friend. same for palestine. the british brought in millions of jews from europe into palestine and caused a war that still exist today, same with the french in vietnam and in laos.

as for the west indies and africa , the british brought identured workers from china, portugal and india, they propergated the idea to them that blacks are extremly lazy and don't want to work, so we have to bring you ppl here to do what they hate doing. they also told them that black ppl have all sorts of deseases, they are part animal and they should not mix with them,they also spread the rumor that black men love to rape and they are the lowest cast on the earth. forever putting a wedge between black chinese and indian to this day in all their colonies.

in the british west indies they left us penny less, my great aunt said in colonial and post colonial times the country was so poor and destitute especially places like behind the bridge, she said there was no land distribution whatsoever in the p.o.s area, every thing was own by the crown , even post colonial time.

those ppl was denied proper education and employment opportunities, most of the poor was black and indigenous ppl, most black ppl were relegated to jobs such as gardeners, maids, and labourers. all the pleasant jobs were given to frechcreoles , whites , portuegese and chinese.

 is only when pnm took over did things change a little , more change came during the 1970 up rising with dagga and CO. is lucky trinidad & tobago lucky we had oil and gas, if we didn't have that , we would've been as poor as guyana, BC the britsh left those islands without any kind of funding to function as an independent country. and the IMF is a differant monster all together, just ask jamiaca and mexico.

now you tell me that the truth is now and the past is obselete, so could the truth of the present exist without the past!! i really couldv'e explain this better to monkies and thay would've got it the first time around, is either fellas like talk and want to gang up , of which i don't care , do you! or they eat to much ah granny pig tail soup, and it kill their overstanding. now lets see how much of the feable minded would ignore the heights and eat up the slop.

First off no need to take such an offensive tone. Batty hole? Where is the need for that? Out of context? if you re-read this thread, you're the one who is taking stuff out of context, and at the same time turning it into an unhealthy discussion with unwarranted animosity.

Secondly, no one is discrediting or denying the past, nor the role it plays in today's society with regard to interracial/ethnic relations.

The point is that today the situation is what it is, and a valid explanation doesn't make it right. Many could argue that there was a valid business rationale behind the slave trade- doesn't take away from the fact that slavery was inhumane and unjust.

It's a fact that many Africans, in different parts of Africa have been guilty of open racial discrimination against Indians....and an explanation is not an excuse, and an excuse doesn't make it ok... I'm not sure why you can't accept that- it's plain to see....and if you were on the other side of the coin, you wouldn't care to hear about why it came to be..... maybe you can take some of your own advice on objectivity.

So cool down, and try to understand where people are coming from before you unnecessarily call them names whilst simultaneously missing the point....
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: rastafari on February 26, 2008, 06:06:33 PM
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.

thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.

when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.

 hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html

Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit.  a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.

First yuh blame it on the aryans

  hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".

Then yuh implying it's the french and the english

Who is really responsible?


JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
 
 
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: just cool on February 26, 2008, 06:09:34 PM
To all the subjetive minded batty holes who like to run up they stink mouth and talk out of contex, take this.
when the colonial master dicided to leave their colonies to the poor bastards they oppressed for centuries, and for what ever reason like in indo china they were met with fierce resistance for total inependence that left those ppl war torn for half a century.

those ppl had no good intentions when they abandon their colonies. the french left their colonies in africa and indo china in a mess, there was no funding whatsoever and apart from that, they left division amoungst the ppl so they could continue to have a hold on their ecconomy and ties to them without the responsibility of care taking.

just ask rowandans when they started fighting each other, was it pre or post colonialism. the belgians deliberatly put the huto against the tutsi's , as a matter of fact they are one ppl , it's the belgians who created huto and tutsi according to my tutsi friend. same for palestine. the british brought in millions of jews from europe into palestine and caused a war that still exist today, same with the french in vietnam and in laos.

as for the west indies and africa , the british brought identured workers from china, portugal and india, they propergated the idea to them that blacks are extremly lazy and don't want to work, so we have to bring you ppl here to do what they hate doing. they also told them that black ppl have all sorts of deseases, they are part animal and they should not mix with them,they also spread the rumor that black men love to rape and they are the lowest cast on the earth. forever putting a wedge between black chinese and indian to this day in all their colonies.

in the british west indies they left us penny less, my great aunt said in colonial and post colonial times the country was so poor and destitute especially places like behind the bridge, she said there was no land distribution whatsoever in the p.o.s area, every thing was own by the crown , even post colonial time.

those ppl was denied proper education and employment opportunities, most of the poor was black and indigenous ppl, most black ppl were relegated to jobs such as gardeners, maids, and labourers. all the pleasant jobs were given to frechcreoles , whites , portuegese and chinese.

 is only when pnm took over did things change a little , more change came during the 1970 up rising with dagga and CO. is lucky trinidad & tobago lucky we had oil and gas, if we didn't have that , we would've been as poor as guyana, BC the britsh left those islands without any kind of funding to function as an independent country. and the IMF is a differant monster all together, just ask jamiaca and mexico.

now you tell me that the truth is now and the past is obselete, so could the truth of the present exist without the past!! i really couldv'e explain this better to monkies and thay would've got it the first time around, is either fellas like talk and want to gang up , of which i don't care , do you! or they eat to much ah granny pig tail soup, and it kill their overstanding. now lets see how much of the feable minded would ignore the heights and eat up the slop.

First off no need to take such an offensive tone. Batty hole? Where is the need for that? Out of context? if you re-read this thread, you're the one who is taking stuff out of context, and at the same time turning it into an unhealthy discussion with unwarranted animosity.

Secondly, no one is discrediting or denying the past, nor the role it plays in today's society with regard to interracial/ethnic relations.

The point is that today the situation is what it is, and a valid explanation doesn't make it right. Many could argue that there was a valid business rationale behind the slave trade- doesn't take away from the fact that slavery was inhumane and unjust.

It's a fact that many Africans, in different parts of Africa have been guilty of open racial discrimination against Indians....and an explanation is not an excuse, and an excuse doesn't make it ok... I'm not sure why you can't accept that- it's plain to see....and if you were on the other side of the coin, you wouldn't care to hear about why it came to be..... maybe you can take some of your own advice on objectivity.

So cool down, and try to understand where people are coming from before you unnecessarily call them names whilst simultaneously missing the point....
Missing what point boss ? All i was doing is telling you don't talk things yuh not verse on, if yuh did more reading rather than talking bout things yuh don't know fully about, then expect man who does read about these issues to check yuh. you said anti indian racism in parts of africa is a normal  scene . very sad.

now ask yuh self why ? did indians came to africa and treat them like 2nd class citizens, did indian men abuse their authority on the lest fortunate, did indians initiate the racist behavior and the africans just returning the favor ? take uganda forinstance, it's not only indians who were expelled from uganda, but if yuh don't know the inside scoop yuh would most definatly think so.

 serians, germans , jews, lebanese were also kicked out of uganda, and the reason they were is BC they were banking outside of uganda and it was destroying the ecconomy. again the british is to blame, but no one wants to talk bout that, it's only the so called "racist" comments they interested in. they the british set this thing up to divide and maintain controll of the ecconomy by creating strife amoungst the pplll, they left the native destitute and brought in foriegners with money from racist caste sytem india to these east african nations , colonial vibes!

 the migrants came with money to buy land and build businesses and they were taking advantage of the country and it's ppl, that anti indian sentiment has been building for yrs , that's why ugandans supported amin's coop BC they were fed up of being 2nd class citizens and disrespected in their native land. so you think is just so ppl does hate ppl.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Filho on February 26, 2008, 07:59:10 PM
just cool

the reasons for anti Indian racism in Africa by black Africans does not negate that it exists and does not make it a positive scene. it's that simple. what really do you this rounds. come on man. u haven't said anything to erase the fact that kicker's observation is true. nor does the lack of a long diatribe as to the causality infer ignorance on the topic. Since when does a legitimate observation have to come with a diatribe about its roots. you want to qualify the racism by explaining some history. fine. that is additive to the observation. but the observation still stands as true and legit.

If I said that crime in T&T is on the rise and it is a sad scene, would you accuse me of talking about things I don't know about and call me a batty hole who running his mouth just because I did not feel like explaining why.

Stop acting like you haven't made or agreed with simple observations without the history behind it.

Thanks for the history lesson, but it changes nothing. The racism exists and it is a sad scene. Anytime you want to test my intelligence, do it like a big man and ask where I coming from with that observation. I will share my knowledge any time.

positive
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: just cool on February 26, 2008, 08:04:54 PM
just cool

the reasons for anti Indian racism in Africa by black Africans does not negate that it exists and does not make it a positive scene. it's that simple. what really do you this rounds. come on man. u haven't said anything to erase the fact that kicker's observation is true. nor does the lack of a long diatribe as to the causality infer ignorance on the topic. Since when does a legitimate observation have to come with a diatribe about its roots. you want to qualify the racism by explaining some history. fine. that is additive to the observation. but the observation still stands as true and legit.

If I said that crime in T&T is on the rise and it is a sad scene, would you accuse me of talking about things I don't know about and call me a batty hole who running his mouth just because I did not feel like explaining why.

Stop acting like you haven't made or agreed with simple observations without the history behind it.

Thanks for the history lesson, but it changes nothing. The racism exists and it is a sad scene. Anytime you want to test my intelligence, do it like a big man and ask where I coming from with that observation. I will share my knowledge any time.

positive
Take win guy! i don't get paid to do this.
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Filho on February 26, 2008, 08:09:42 PM
just cool

the reasons for anti Indian racism in Africa by black Africans does not negate that it exists and does not make it a positive scene. it's that simple. what really do you this rounds. come on man. u haven't said anything to erase the fact that kicker's observation is true. nor does the lack of a long diatribe as to the causality infer ignorance on the topic. Since when does a legitimate observation have to come with a diatribe about its roots. you want to qualify the racism by explaining some history. fine. that is additive to the observation. but the observation still stands as true and legit.

If I said that crime in T&T is on the rise and it is a sad scene, would you accuse me of talking about things I don't know about and call me a batty hole who running his mouth just because I did not feel like explaining why.

Stop acting like you haven't made or agreed with simple observations without the history behind it.

Thanks for the history lesson, but it changes nothing. The racism exists and it is a sad scene. Anytime you want to test my intelligence, do it like a big man and ask where I coming from with that observation. I will share my knowledge any time.

positive
Take win guy! i don't get paid to do this.

hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D

glad this was over. it was getting bizarre
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Bakes on February 26, 2008, 10:09:15 PM
hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D

glad this was over. it was getting bizarre

filho you good yes bredda....fuh all de shiitake that Indians had tuh put up wid under Eric Williams' PNM, when UNC finally reach in power and they start to talk about "is Indian time now"...nuff black people ketch feelings.   By de logic that man spinning, black people had no reason to be vex at that, because I sure Sat Maharaj and all ah dem coulda provide nuff justification fuh why there was all of this seemingly sudden animosity emanating from some quarters of the Indian sector...there was a historical basis for it (and I guess we need to keep that in mind before we complain ::) )
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: pecan on February 27, 2008, 06:54:45 AM

hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D

glad this was over. it was getting bizarre

 :rotfl:
Title: Re: More racism in football - FAZ presidency marred by racial abuse
Post by: Daft Trini on February 27, 2008, 07:18:49 AM

hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D

glad this was over. it was getting bizarre

 :rotfl:

This thread turned out just as bizarre as Caledonia tryin to raise money thread...  ???
Title: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: Cantona007 on April 07, 2008, 11:50:16 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/04/post_15.html

Mihir Bose - BBC sports editor 7 Apr 08, 01:16 PM Watch Mihir's report for Inside Sport on Monday 8 April at 2325 BST on BBC One

Racism may never be fully eradicated from football, but what I found during an investigation into the problem in Poland was truly shocking.

And this in the country that will co-host the 2012 European Football Championship.

I found racism that was strident and in your face in a way it never was in Britain, even in the very bad old days of English football in the 1970s and 80s.

Then, as one of the regular football reporters at the Sunday Times, I spent my Saturdays at football matches and had several first-hand experiences of racism.

Much of it was very unpleasant. But in Poland it was on a different, deeper and much nastier level.

In a street in central Warsaw, not far from the hotel where I was staying, there was a lot of graffiti about 'white power' and the Ku Klux Klan, all associated with the city's main team Legia Warsaw.

And this wasn't the only place where the problem was evident.

One evening, as myself, my cameraman and producer were going about central Warsaw filming our piece for Inside Sport, we were approached by a skinhead who said he was a Legia fan and made it clear that he was a racist and keen to broadcast his view.


As I interviewed him he told me to go back to my country, meaning India, the land of my birth. He would not look me in the eye as we spoke and at the end of my interview, refused to shake my hand.

He may have been an exhibitionist and, I must stress, Polish passers by were embarrassed by what he said and tried to distance themselves from him.

But talking to many people, including those running football in Poland, he did not seem untypical of a certain section of Polish fans.

Indeed, the president of Legia Warsaw, Leszek Miklas, an impressive and honest man, readily admitted that 15-20% of his club's fans were neo-Nazis.

Legia are banned from Europe because of the violence of their fans. His explanation for such deep-seated racism was that Poles are not used to seeing people of different colours or cultures in their country.

Perhaps the most chilling example of how embedded racism is in Polish football was when I met Jacek Pulski of Never Again, the Polish equivalent of Kick it Out.

We had agreed to meet in the Stalin-built Palace of Culture and Science in central Warsaw, where I expected his offices to be located.

No he said, he did not have his office there or anywhere else in Warsaw. Partly through lack of funding but, more importantly, if they had an office, Jacek was fearful it would be a firebomb target for racists.

We then spent some time driving round Warsaw to find a cafe where we could talk in peace.

He showed me photographs taken during Polish football matches in the last two years where brazen images of neo-Nazi symbols had been displayed.

This not only included the White Legion banner of the infamous skinheads of Legia Warsaw but, most chillingly, a picture of away fans in a lower division league match forming a human swastika in the stands.

He then told me the story of the black player who had been hospitalised by a third division club's supporters, despite scoring two goals. And all because they did not want an Afro-Caribbean in their side.

He told me that I, because of my brown skin, would not be safe in more than two or three grounds in Poland.

I was made very welcome at Legia Warsaw. But there were areas of the ground I was told I could not go into because of the colour of my skin.

This was confirmed when I met Dixon Choto, the Zimbabwean international who plays for Legia Warsaw.

Before meeting him I had spent some time watching his team-mates train. This could have been a training session anywhere - people of different colours united by football.

But, as we walked round the stadium, he pointed to a stand where his friends and family were not welcome because of the colour of their skin.

He also told me I should not go there as I would not be safe. He also said he had his share of monkey chants and bananas being tossed at him. This happened more at away matches now.

Worse still, he said when he reacted to such racism on the field of play, Polish football authorities called him to a disciplinary hearing, where the opposition manager said he did not hear the chants, despite being heard loud and clear by Dixon's wife, who was at home watching on television.

I went to a Legia Warsaw home match at the Polish Army Stadium, where the team fielded black players without any visible problems, although I was not able to go anywhere near the stand, which takes up a whole side of the ground, where the 'ultras' gather.

Before the match I had been to a bar near the ground where the hardcore supporters meet.

It was made clear by some fans, who feared for my safety and that of my crew, I should leave.

I managed to speak to these moderate fans who did not deny that racism existed but insisted that Poland was not alone in having this scourge.

So what does this mean for 2012?

Dixon told me frankly that Poland was not ready to host Euro 2012. Pulski agreed, although he hoped the tournament would highlight the issue and help the country tackle its racism problem.

Polish competition organisers accept there is a problem at league level, but say national team supporters do not display racist behaviour, despite photographic evidence I was shown that suggested the contrary.

They are confident that 2012 will pass without incident.

Poland needs heavy financial investment to get its infrastructure ready for 2012. The Polish media are already expressing worries about how this will be done.

But tackling such deep-seated racism in time to welcome a Europe of all colours may be much more difficult than building roads and stadia
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: Peong on April 07, 2008, 12:10:51 PM
Anybody have any idea who the afro-caribbean player is?
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: PantherX on April 07, 2008, 03:45:19 PM
The rise of neo-nazism in Poland is particularly disturbing when you consider that the most notorious of the Nazi concentration camps, Auschwitz, is located in Poland.  What makes it worse is that more than 140,000 Poles were interned there and about half never made it out.

Imagine seeing neo-nazis in Israel, it's about as mind-boggling.

@Andre - Breds I understand your sentiment but it's not fair to ridicule all Poles because of the actions of these idiots.  You only demeaning yourself with those kind of statements.
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: ZANDOLIE on April 07, 2008, 03:59:51 PM
Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.

Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.

And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: truetrini on April 07, 2008, 04:59:09 PM
Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.

Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.

And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.

The Poles did suffer at the hands of the Germans, BUT...they were fiercely anti semetic also and the Polish Jews, who had been there since the middle ages were already the poorest of all Jews on the continent and were harrassed and persecuted by the native poles.  Poles for theri part cooperated with the nazis in the execution of the pesky Jews who made up 10% of Poland's population.

Doh feel dem werent already hating Jews, and it is no coincidence that the majority of Nazi gas chambers were built right there in Poland.

This may be news to some, But Poles always hate people of colour and Jews!

The Jews were already suffering at the hands of those in Poland who hated them and then those same country men collobrated with the Germans to help eradicate Jews.

I am not at all surprised that anti semetism and hatred of blacks permeates that nasty nation!
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: ZANDOLIE on April 07, 2008, 05:13:44 PM
Yes TT but the fact remains that many many non-Jewish, non-homosexual Poles were slaughtered by the Nazis, I just went on Wiki and read an estimate of nearly 20% of the population. And the Polish resistance continued to be very strong throughout Europe.

As I understand it the Poles, Slavs and the people of Eastern Europe in general never experienced the destruction of the native cultures of Western Europe by the Roman Empire and the subsequent reformation into  larger regional blocs from which the identities of English, French etc. emerged. But you are more a historian than I, what is your take on that?

They tribal no ass and the biggest joke is that ethnic Russians, probably among the most xenophobic set of people on this earth disdain Caucasians with a passion!
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: asylumseeker on April 07, 2008, 09:31:17 PM
In the buildup to WC 2002 I had a memorable discussion with several Polish fans concerning Emmanuel Olisadebe. I didn't know an excessive amount about the player beyond some of his notable exploits and the growing regard he was developing. I was very curious about how he came to stamp his authority on the Polish game and how he managed to negotiate his place in - what available information suggested was at least - an occasionally hostile environment. And, they were very eager to talk about him because they hoped/thought he would deliver them to the WC Promised Land.

It was an interesting exercise. These fans drew a line that bigged up the player while also chronicling his negative experiences at the hands of 'supporters' - all without delivering any clear/notable denunciation of the behaviour. They didn't try to explain it and I didn't ask them to.

Seemed like they accepted it without necessarily agreeing with it. There was no kowtowing just for my sake. Instead, there was a very Central/Eastern European matter of factness.

+++

The homogenous character of Poland is an easy explanation. Though not necessarily incorrect, where does racism begin and xenophobia end? I doh have a full explanation but I can share my experience.

I was tempted to challenge them to the point of confession but didn't because I accepted they were messengers and not necessarily believers. As well, we were breaking bread together so that wouldna been the righteous approach right there and then.

Yet, the paradox of the Solidarity movement and Eastern Europe's embrace of things Western made me question some convenient notions about history and race and Slavic prejudices as they may be understood in Chicago. I had to remind myself of Poles versus immigrant Poles.

The truth is Poland is probably a good example of misplaced prejudices stemming from the inability of the society to address some of the transition experienced at the forefront of shifting from communism to another way. Not to dismiss the historical record with respect to Polish complicity in WW II atrocities - but there are contemporary challenges in mastering market economics and diminished state subsidisation that cyah be explained by WW II exclusively. As well, there is a liberal mindset standing against some of the conservative character of the Old State.

+++

That same year I had been invited to Poznan and otherwise independently had many interactions with Poles.

 I have found Poles to be very engaging and sensitized to the world outside of Poland ... might be a generation bias here buh say wha ... Similarly, I have found them to be culturally curious and plenty positive (gender biased here fuh sure) ...

At the end of the day, football's atmosphere is combustion and attraction for certain degenerates.

I agree with Bose regarding his propositions relating to Euro 2012. Buh ah find him incredulous with respect to the surpise expressed about reality in Poland and a lil disingenuous with respect to comparing Poland to 70s and 80s England.

There is an automatic tendency to defend the reputation of one's country even as one recognises that certain behaviour in one's country is reprehensible or regrettable - Poland or England. Bose may share this in common with the Poles I met.
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: saga pinto on April 07, 2008, 10:00:34 PM
Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.

Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.

And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.

History never lies and it is said that people who were oppressed for years usually become the oppressers themselves............
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: ttcom on April 08, 2008, 05:58:49 AM
Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.

Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.

And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.

The jews in Poland not the masses.
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: Zeppo on April 08, 2008, 06:53:00 AM
The jews in Poland not the masses.

You need to review World History.
Title: Re: Polish football's racism problem
Post by: ZANDOLIE on April 08, 2008, 05:18:35 PM

The jews in Poland not the masses.

You think over 50,000 soldiers dead in less than 2 years were all Jews? They get it from all quarters, then when they tried to retreat and hide in along the Romanian border the Soviets lick them up. Poland probably suffered the largest genocide in Europe at the hands of Hitler.
Title: Racism in English Football!
Post by: assrancid on September 29, 2008, 06:07:08 PM
This is from Goal.com I think that there are good points here.

29/09/2008 English Debate: England - Pot Calling The Kettle Black

Alan Dawson asks if England are a hypocritical football association for criticising racism in other countries when it is clear they struggle with their own prejudices, judging from chants emanating from Premier League clubs in the past year...
Many commentators and ex-pros were outraged to hear that the Croatian Football Federation were only fined 15,000 as a result of small pockets of fans making monkey noises when England forward Emile Heskey received a yellow card for a challenge on Croatian captain Niko Kovac. However, shouldn't England sort out its own problems with racial insensitivity before it criticises other countries?

The English FA and the British press are vehemently critical of racist abuse inflicted upon any English star while on international duty. Ashley Cole was subject to racial chants while playing for England in Spain that left him trembling in the dressing room; Luis Aragones felt the wrath of tabloid and broadsheet opposition in the United Kingdom for his Jose Reyes pep-talk that included an unsavoury reference to then-Arsenal star Thierry Henry; and, more recently, solid England striker Emile Heskey was the centre of repugnant monkey taunts from pockets of Croatian fans while receiving a cautionary booking for a foul on Vatreni captain Niko Kovac.

These incidents are rightly vilified, but shouldn't England concentrate on tackling it's own problems with racially disparaging chants from the terraces of Premier League clubs before it criticises the actions of others?

Both the FA and fans alike will claim that racism has almost entirely been expelled from stands in England, and while you are unlikely to hear monkey noises like the ones heard in Spain or Croatia, there are still racially intolerant chants that are sung by not a pocket, but a barrack section of the stadium.

West Ham United supporters came under the interrogation floodlights while the Hammers lost a home game to London rivals Tottenham Hotspur in March 2007 for singing vitriolic chants that were filmed, posted on YouTube, and then removed when Spurs lodged a club complaint and police launched an official probe.

The video footage clearly displayed a section of the east end fans singing: "I'd rather be a P*ki... I'd rather be a P*ki... I'd rather be a P*ki than a Jew," to the tune of 'She'll be coming round the mountain.' Tottenham Hotspur have long been identified as having a large Jewish following, and while other fans will attempt to goad Spurs by calling them 'Yids', the lily whites took on the term 'Yid Army' as a badge of honour.

The chants heard at Upton Park 18 months ago were also accompanied by Nazi cries of "Sieg Heil" and "Heil Hitler". Tottenham registered their disgust with the FA; the Premier League; West Ham; and YouTube, but the White Hart Lane outfit are guilty of their own racially insensitive fans who disgracefully sing about Arsenal's Togolese striker Emmanuel Adebayor.

More recently, Tottenham fans, even when not playing Arsenal, shout: ''Adebayor... Adebayor... His dad washes elephants, and his mum is a whore," to the tune of the Westminster Chimes, as is evident from the video posted below.

Yes, these maybe isolated incidents, but tally these occasions up and you have three or four mawkish memories when looking back at the end of the season. With this in mind, is it not wildly hypocritical that England lambasts other countries' minority fans whom monkey chant at black English players while England itself is still obviously struggling with their own intolerances?

Alan Dawson
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 29, 2008, 07:10:01 PM
Quote
These incidents are rightly vilified, but shouldn't England concentrate on tackling it's own problems with racially disparaging chants from the terraces of Premier League clubs before it criticises the actions of others?
No. 

They are perfectly capable... and justified, in criticizing the behavior abroad while addressing the behavior at home as best they can.

Quote
you have three or four mawkish memories when looking back at the end of the season. With this in mind, is it not wildly hypocritical that England lambasts other countries' minority fans whom monkey chant at black English players while England itself is still obviously struggling with their own intolerances?
"three or four" incidents none of which, not individually nor collectively rise to the level of monkey chants.  How in blooming hell then, does that make the protests of the English towards the behavior of the Croatian fans "wildly hypocritical"?


Wasted potential.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on September 30, 2008, 02:34:00 AM
white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go.  most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.

them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on September 30, 2008, 03:12:11 AM
white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go.  most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.

them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.

you really ent helping ::)
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Pur_Trini on September 30, 2008, 03:15:32 AM
white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go.  most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.

them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.

Aye, just cool!  Yuh want some ketchup for that large chip on yuh shoulder?
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Rodney on September 30, 2008, 04:37:06 AM
Been to football in Spain, Croatia, Serbia, Turkey, Germany, Scotland, Portugal and England. Of them, the only place that I did not experience any racist chanting (at least that I could hear) was in Portugal and that was probably because of the three games i saw there only about ah 1/4 of the players on the pitch was white. The worst was in Croatia where almost the whole stadium give these two african players abuse and missile whole game then the group I was with get attack outside ah bar post game....luckily Croatian cyah fight without gun.

Totally agree with Bake n Shark, England are doing more than most in Europe to combat not just racism but violence at football so I have to say England has every right to complain. Now I see what some posters mean about Goal.com and its articles.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: lickslikefire on September 30, 2008, 06:29:41 AM
white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go.  most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.

them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.

the irony here is, this has to be one of the most racist posts on this site.....congrats
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: capodetutticapi on September 30, 2008, 06:42:02 AM
white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go.  most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.

them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
as yuh describing that all i could picture is prince charles.he like ah real monkey,bush kinda resemble one too.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 07:02:34 AM
I starting tuh realize that men on here does take Just Cool too serious yes, lol

Midknight's response was probably best.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Pur_Trini on September 30, 2008, 07:20:24 AM
white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go.  most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.

them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
as yuh describing that all i could picture is prince charles.he like ah real monkey,bush kinda resemble one too.


Perceiving a resemblance is a subjective thing.  Many will probably agree with you - for my part, I never thought about it.  It's interesting though, that some time ago someone posted a pic of Jack Warner and son on this site, a forumite observed that he thought they looked like monkies, and the observation was widely unappreciated (and rightly so!).  I can't be bothered to search for the thread but were you by chance one of the detractors?
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: kicker on September 30, 2008, 08:08:43 AM
white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go.  most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.

them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.

And your name is "just cool"?

Bakes is right- your radical (and sometimes inaccurate and baseless) posts are often not worth the energy...nevertheless:

The racist association of blacks & monkeys, I believe is more a knock on human progress, mental evolution/development and civilization, in addition to a geographic association of Monkeys with the African continent..... than it is a comment on mere physical resemblance (though it might be that as well)....

btw your post is very offensive.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on September 30, 2008, 09:54:00 AM
JC
fellas might start to call ya UnJust Cool
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: judge101 on September 30, 2008, 09:58:26 AM
in every race, religion ang country there are a few jackasses that gives everone a bad name it sucks but its the truth and racism is possible the hardest thing to top because when you charge a country's fa it not coming out of the racist supporters pocket
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 10:46:57 AM
And your name is "just cool"?

Bakes is right- your radical (and sometimes inaccurate and baseless) posts are often not worth the energy...nevertheless:

The racist association of blacks & monkeys, I believe is more a knock on human progress, mental evolution/development and civilization, in addition to a geographic association of Monkeys with the African continent..... than it is a comment on mere physical resemblance (though it might be that as well)....

btw your post is very offensive.

I've come to the conclusion that Just Cool has a very complicated view of white people that he himself hasn't quite figured out yet... at times he indicates (even in his personal life) that he has no issues with white people and have no problem treating people as individuals.  At other times he let's his own frustrations and emotions bubble over into vile and offensive anti-white rants.

Which is why I stopped taking him too serious.  Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting  :rotfl:  they completely missed the point I was making.  To this day I don't think JC himself got it.  Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Blue on September 30, 2008, 11:55:09 AM
De stupidity of dat article is hurting my head. Goal.com should be banned from this message board.

- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant. Spurs (along with Arsenal) are probably the least racist clubs in Europe and have the second highest black attendances after Arsenal.

- Spurs nicknamed themselves the Yids (and they regularly chant it in the stands)

- The only valid points he had were the p*ki and Hitler chants...and neither of these examples mean that the English FA isnt correct to highlight racism, wherever it arises.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: JDB on September 30, 2008, 12:33:28 PM
Which is why I stopped taking him too serious.  Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting  :rotfl:  they completely missed the point I was making.  To this day I don't think JC himself got it.  Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.

Not to rehash the past but if you read my entire post you would see that I spent much more time refuting jus cools ridiculous assertions than I did responding to you. There would be no way to construe my post as support/ignorance of just cool while attacking your position. If you read the entire post you would see that we were actually making similar points, i.e. that just cool was talking shit.

Also what we all now understand was parody on your part was simply misinterpreted at the time. Very easy to do since I didnt compare the structures to the two posts side by side. Read one (just cools) and scanned the other (yours). Remember that I dont/didnt know you from Adam and the only frame of reference I had for your comment at the time was a previous unashamed use of a racist term. Of course there was no opportunity to explain this mis-understanding at the time as the "dialogue" immediately descended into the usual profanities.

And yes I don't take on just cool either, makes no sense.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: ribbit on September 30, 2008, 12:39:30 PM
interesting article. yes, it's much easier to take the moral high road when it's another league's fan base causing the problems.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 01:27:25 PM
Which is why I stopped taking him too serious.  Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting  :rotfl:  they completely missed the point I was making.  To this day I don't think JC himself got it.  Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.

Not to rehash the past but if you read my entire post you would see that I spent much more time refuting jus cools ridiculous assertions than I did responding to you. There would be no way to construe my post as support/ignorance of just cool while attacking your position. If you read the entire post you would see that we were actually making similar points, i.e. that just cool was talking shit.

Also what we all now understand was parody on your part was simply misinterpreted at the time. Very easy to do since I didnt compare the structures to the two posts side by side. Read one (just cools) and scanned the other (yours). Remember that I dont/didnt know you from Adam and the only frame of reference I had for your comment at the time was a previous unashamed use of a racist term. Of course there was no opportunity to explain this mis-understanding at the time as the "dialogue" immediately descended into the usual profanities.

And yes I don't take on just cool either, makes no sense.

Is no scenes... I just thought it shoulda been obvious what I was doing.  At any rate, like yuh say, not to rehash the past... my central point is that this is nothing new for Just Cool, I won't defend it, but I also know enough at this point not to take him too seriously... especially not when his own kids are half white.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on September 30, 2008, 02:00:09 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.

Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Blue on September 30, 2008, 02:04:38 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.

Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?

Nope.

If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.

If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.

I dont c d problem.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on September 30, 2008, 02:27:23 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.

Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?

Nope.

If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.

If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.

I dont c d problem.

And if he was from England?
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 02:34:13 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.

Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?

Nope.

If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.

If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.

I dont c d problem.

And if he was from England?

'African' itself is not a race... so I wouldn't equate that chant with racism, taking a dig at his birthland maybe.  Besides it have elephants not too far from me here  ;D
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Weh-it-is on September 30, 2008, 02:49:27 PM
And your name is "just cool"?

Bakes is right- your radical (and sometimes inaccurate and baseless) posts are often not worth the energy...nevertheless:

The racist association of blacks & monkeys, I believe is more a knock on human progress, mental evolution/development and civilization, in addition to a geographic association of Monkeys with the African continent..... than it is a comment on mere physical resemblance (though it might be that as well)....

btw your post is very offensive.

I've come to the conclusion that Just Cool has a very complicated view of white people that he himself hasn't quite figured out yet... at times he indicates (even in his personal life) that he has no issues with white people and have no problem treating people as individuals.  At other times he let's his own frustrations and emotions bubble over into vile and offensive anti-white rants.

Which is why I stopped taking him too serious.  Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting  :rotfl:  they completely missed the point I was making.  To this day I don't think JC himself got it.  Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.

Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!  Some people grew up like that and some are still ignorant to the fact that it is a disease infested hatred and its not right. But some continue with the hate. I'm black; but was thought that anyone lighter than me was beautiful or was to be held in a higher class or category etc etc. Even Indian people, I used to tap up Indian people in primary school or just hate Indians because they were called coolie. I had to switch my way of thinking because of becoming a believer in Christ.  People try to cover up racism, but its a plague in our society today. The only way one can be healed from such ignorants, is thru proper Education and Spirituality. That hatred started thru the slave trade by the Europeans to categorize slaves by skin color
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Blue on September 30, 2008, 02:58:04 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.

Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?

Nope.

If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.

If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.

I dont c d problem.

And if he was from England?

Den dey wud haf 2 find something else to make fun of him  ::)
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: kicker on September 30, 2008, 02:58:15 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.

Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?

Nope.

If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.

If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.

I dont c d problem.

And if he was from England?


His dad would be chugging his 10th pint, eating fish & chips and neglecting to brush his teeth.

There are cultural stereotypes from each part of the world, and unless they are (intentionally) insulting, we should learn to laugh at them, because truth is, many of them are actually funny...

Is there really anything wrong with washing an elephant?
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on September 30, 2008, 03:10:19 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
And if he was from England?
His dad would be chugging his 10th pint, eating fish & chips, being a Hooligan at Football Matches, and neglecting to brush his teeth.
There are cultural stereotypes from each part of the world, and unless they are (intentionally) insulting, we should learn to laugh at them, because truth is, many of them are actually funny...
Is there really anything wrong with washing an elephant?
Fixed ;D
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 03:13:10 PM
Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!  Some people grew up like that and some are still ignorant to the fact that it is a disease infested hatred and its not right. But some continue with the hate. I'm black; but was thought that anyone lighter than me was beautiful or was to be held in a higher class or category etc etc. Even Indian people, I used to tap up Indian people in primary school or just hate Indians because they were called coolie. I had to switch my way of thinking because of becoming a believer in Christ.  People try to cover up racism, but its a plague in our society today. The only way one can be healed from such ignorants, is thru proper Education and Spirituality. That hatred started thru the slave trade by the Europeans to categorize slaves by skin color

true talk... it certainly runs deeper than many of us willing to acknowledge, and sometimes we have to dig deep inside to find the root to the problem within our own selves.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 03:14:19 PM
Is there really anything wrong with washing an elephant?

I know Jack and he friends from de three ring circus might take offense... :rotfl:
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on September 30, 2008, 03:24:53 PM
it really is basic human nature to subjugate those around us who have no social power

just at the tip of my tongue fingers
the Caste and Feudal/Serfdom systems prove that
I guess the lightness or darkness of ones skin colour just gives some a "reason" to act the way they do
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on September 30, 2008, 03:52:04 PM
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.

Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?

Nope.

If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.

If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.

I dont c d problem.

And if he was from England?

'African' itself is not a race... so I wouldn't equate that chant with racism, taking a dig at his birthland maybe.  Besides it have elephants not too far from me here  ;D

I never said it was racist, and i purposely said African instead of Black.

I could however see why people (other than Adebayor of course) could find it offensive, and I'm not sure what the 'cultural' stereotype being propagated is in this case - that Africa is poor and underdevelopped and thus does not have cars that people can wash to make quick money? or that its people are more ecologically minded and tend to use means of natural transport that are more respectful of nature?

Which is why I asked what they would chant if he was English? I just want to know what I can say to someone that can be 'taking a dig' without being "anti-English" or offensive towards an entire continent.

I personally find that a simple sustained boo would suffice if one wants to single out one player for special treatment, but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 03:57:09 PM
...Which is why I asked what they would chant if he was English? I just want to know what I can say to someone that can be 'taking a dig' without being "anti-English" or offensive towards an entire continent.

I personally find that a simple sustained boo would suffice if one wants to single out one player for special treatment, but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.

English fans are just notorious for making up a chant about any and everything... that the chants aren't always PC is a known commodity, the author just trying real hard, and failing to make out a charge of racism against them.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Blue on September 30, 2008, 03:59:13 PM
I never said it was racist, and i purposely said African instead of Black.

I could however see why people (other than Adebayor of course) could find it offensive, and I'm not sure what the 'cultural' stereotype being propagated is in this case - that Africa is poor and underdevelopped and thus does not have cars that people can wash to make quick money? or that its people are more ecologically minded and tend to use means of natural transport that are more respectful of nature?

Which is why I asked what they would chant if he was English? I just want to know what I can say to someone that can be 'taking a dig' without being "anti-English" or offensive towards an entire continent.

I personally find that a simple sustained boo would suffice if one wants to single out one player for special treatment, but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.

midnight, u really being serious? dat adebayor chant iz nuthing compared to intercol. noone is asking for political correctness in football, iz part of d fun.

"boo" doh sound all dat intelligent to me. especially when the player isn't even in d stadium. :rotfl:
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on September 30, 2008, 04:01:06 PM
but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.
Majoritarianism Baby ;)
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: dinho on September 30, 2008, 04:07:43 PM
Latapy.. Russel Latapy.
He sips on rum under a coconut tree
His dad beats a steel drum on the sea
But he's Falkirk's one and onlyyyyyyyy....
Latapy!!


... shoot me now!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on September 30, 2008, 04:11:06 PM
Omar, is Wim that wrote that :devil:
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: DeSoWa on September 30, 2008, 04:13:33 PM
Latapy.. Russel Latapy.
He sips on rum under a coconut tree
His dad beats a steel drum on the sea
But he's Falkirk's one and onlyyyyyyyy....
Latapy!!


... shoot me now!


My only problem with this is.....it should be BY THE SEA and not ON THE SEA  ;D

Big Up!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: dinho on September 30, 2008, 04:15:06 PM
Latapy.. Russel Latapy.
He sips on rum under a coconut tree
His dad beats a steel drum on the sea
But he's Falkirk's one and onlyyyyyyyy....
Latapy!!


... shoot me now!


My only problem with this is.....it should be BY THE SEA and not ON THE SEA  ;D

Big Up!

nah, just hadda accentuate the ignorance..

what i shoulda really say is "sip rum IN A TREE" :devil:
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: DeSoWa on September 30, 2008, 04:20:22 PM
Point taken  :beermug:

Reminds me of that sasame street song....there are chickens in the tree....or something so...lol


Big Up!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: PantherX on September 30, 2008, 04:27:01 PM
Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!

That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.

This is for Desowa:

There are chickens in the trees
There are chickens in the trees
Won't you listen to me please
There are chickens in the trees

Chickens in the trees video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvv5gL1pGb0)
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 05:03:51 PM
Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!

That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.


You have me here checking the definition of "ingrained" to see if there's a difference.

Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: PantherX on September 30, 2008, 05:07:36 PM
I should have said inherent or intrinsic instead ;D.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on September 30, 2008, 06:01:58 PM
midnight, u really being serious? dat adebayor chant iz nuthing compared to intercol. noone is asking for political correctness in football, iz part of d fun.

Let me hear what you hear in Intercol. Apparently in my day, it was kinda tame. You could PM it if you shame.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: PantherX on September 30, 2008, 07:29:17 PM
Yeah man bring it we're all adults here.......I was going to say MATURE adults but then ah ketch mehself :P
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Weh-it-is on September 30, 2008, 07:38:01 PM
Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!

That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.

This is for Desowa:

There are chickens in the trees
There are chickens in the trees
Won't you listen to me please
There are chickens in the trees

Chickens in the trees video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvv5gL1pGb0)

If a child is thought a habit from birth; don't you think that after ah while it becomes a conscience habit, which  would then become a chemical reaction stream from the brains cells...then its imbedded into the blood line anyhow yuh put it, but some ah alyuh to deep.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on September 30, 2008, 08:07:20 PM
If a child is thought a habit from birth; don't you think that after ah while it becomes a conscience habit, which  would then become a chemical reaction stream from the brains cells...then its imbedded into the blood line anyhow yuh put it, but some ah alyuh to deep.
I am sure some will go against the "gene".......
sort of "Rage against the BadGene" ;D
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on September 30, 2008, 08:14:38 PM
I call it the way i see it ! all who want to be diplomatic, then be my guest!

i encounter nuff racism in the life , so if i get this one wrong , then 1 out of ah 100 ain't that bad @ all.

i could tell allyuh soft ass sympathizer  one thing though, i believe non ah allyuh ever had to live in ah controlled environment with ah bunch ah fackin skinhead neo nazi's, and KKK minded cowboys who didn't have no quorums with calling ah red man like trezeguet ah fackinnn naayyyggeeerrr ! that's how horrorable they are, and allyuh defending dem dogs.

i don't want to be ah pragmatist in this situation! dem MDCNTs dun controll the bulk ah the worlds wealth when they have little to no resources and allyuh want to defend their honor, they are thieves, oppressors, and imperialist conquerer.

to the clown who said it was the most racist post you ever seen, take the fackin yampee out yuh eyes. what yuh have to say about 400 yrs of slavery and 100 yrs of colonialism. ah thought so!!!!!!   
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Weh-it-is on September 30, 2008, 09:01:31 PM
I call it the way i see it ! all who want to be diplomatic, then be my guest!

i encounter nuff racism in the life , so if i get this one wrong , then 1 out of ah 100 ain't that bad @ all.

i could tell allyuh soft ass sympathizer  one thing though, i believe non ah allyuh ever had to live in ah controlled environment with ah bunch ah fackin skinhead neo nazi's, and KKK minded cowboys who didn't have no quorums with calling ah red man like trezeguet ah fackinnn naayyyggeeerrr ! that's how horrorable they are, and allyuh defending dem dogs.

i don't want to be ah pragmatist in this situation! dem MDCNTs dun controll the bulk ah the worlds wealth when they have little to no resources and allyuh want to defend their honor, they are thieves, oppressors, and imperialist conquerer.

to the clown who said it was the most racist post you ever seen, take the fackin yampee out yuh eyes. what yuh have to say about 400 yrs of slavery and 100 yrs of colonialism. ah thought so!!!!!!   

Well look Bacchanal. ;D

So Just Cool, we must continue to battle racism with anger and hatred in return? Will that really solve the issue? No! Martin Luther King speech is coming to past, yuh ent see Obama about to become President in one of the worlds, I believe most racism countries. White people, black people voting for a BLACK MAN to become the next president of the United State of America. We could all come to a medium on this than hating the opposition in return. Knowledge, Character and Faith is what one must possess to overcome thee Haters
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: weary1969 on September 30, 2008, 10:26:29 PM
Thanks 4 d Sesame Street dat bring back nice memories nice light mood while discussing racism
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on September 30, 2008, 11:06:02 PM
I call it the way i see it ! all who want to be diplomatic, then be my guest!

i encounter nuff racism in the life , so if i get this one wrong , then 1 out of ah 100 ain't that bad @ all.

i could tell allyuh soft ass sympathizers one thing though, i believe non ah allyuh ever had to live in ah controlled environment with ah bunch ah fackin skinhead neo nazi's, and KKK minded cowboys who didn't have no quorums with calling ah red man like trezeguet ah fackinnn naayyyggeeerrr ! that's how horrorable they are, and allyuh defending dem dogs.

i don't want to be ah pragmatist in this situation! dem MDCNTs dun controll the bulk ah the worlds wealth when they have little to no resources and allyuh want to defend their honor, they are thieves, oppressors, and imperialist conquerer.

to the clown who said it was the most racist post you ever seen, take the fackin yampee out yuh eyes. what yuh have to say about 400 yrs of slavery and 100 yrs of colonialism. ah thought so!!!!!!   

Well look Bacchanal. ;D

So Just Cool, we must continue to battle racism with anger and hatred in return? Will that really solve the issue? No! Martin Luther King speech is coming to past, yuh ent see Obama about to become President in one of the worlds, I believe most racism countries. White people, black people voting for a BLACK MAN to become the next president of the United State of America. We could all come to a medium on this than hating the opposition in return. Knowledge, Character and Faith is what one must possess to overcome thee Haters

Allyuh does take things too literal and out of context, love to put words in man mouth,and instigate racism when there's none.

when i say white , i don't mean white ppl in general , when i say white i talking bout ah white supremacist system, and not so much individualistic.

this world monetary system was fueled and established by slave labour / colonial money. and it's retained and up held by white supremacist policies. just look @ the countries that are underdeveloped, most of them are rich in natural resources, but are far in debt up to their chins, and most are countries of colour.

i agree and acknowledge there are a high % of white ppl who are not racist and help to establish justice in the world, but for the most part whites sit back and enjoy the privilege of being white and seldom even opposed the system of it's racist  policies.

how many of yuhs ever really investigate the amount of genocide that was and still is commited in the name economic stability ? what about foreign policy ?

allyuh better read ah forkin book and stop calling me names that cannot be substantiated !! or better yet ! if yuh live in the US of A , try and listen to WBAI for an accurate view of the world we live in and turn off kiss FM and KTU for ah change and gain some prospective !

as for those who live in T&T, i sorry for allyuh , BC allyuh ain't have ah prayer when it comes to ah so called liberal view of the world, that's BC allyuh was so colonized and programmed that allyuh might even try to kill jesus if he came back to teach allyuh sense,so stay in darkness and pick up ah flag , ah rag, and wave.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on September 30, 2008, 11:32:13 PM
Allyuh does take things too literal and out of context, love to put words in man mouth,and instigate racism when there's none.

when i say white , i don't mean white ppl in general , when i say white i talking bout ah white supremacist system, and not so much individualistic.

this world monetary system was fueled and established by slave labour / colonial money. and it's retained and up held by white supremacist policies. just look @ the countries that are underdeveloped, most of them are rich in natural resources, but are far in debt up to their chins, and most are countries of colour.

i agree and acknowledge there are a high % of white ppl who are not racist and help to establish justice in the world, but for the most part whites sit back and enjoy the privilege of being white and seldom even opposed the system of it's racist  policies.

how many of yuhs ever really investigate the amount of genocide that was and still is commited in the name economic stability ? what about foreign policy ?

allyuh better read ah forkin book and stop calling me names that cannot be substantiated !! or better yet ! if yuh live in the US of A , try and listen to WBAI for an accurate view of the world we live in and turn off kiss FM and KTU for ah change and gain some prospective !

as for those who live in T&T, i sorry for allyuh , BC allyuh ain't have ah prayer when it comes to ah so called liberal view of the world, that's BC allyuh was so colonized and programmed that allyuh might even try to kill jesus if he came back to teach allyuh sense,so stay in darkness and pick up ah flag , ah rag, and wave.


As much as I don't disagree with anything here that you said... much of it smacks of rationalization after the fact.  Saying white people look like monkeys and what not is a far cry from criticizing this mythical "white supremacist system" that you rail against.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: PantherX on October 01, 2008, 12:08:16 AM
Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!

That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.

This is for Desowa:

There are chickens in the trees
There are chickens in the trees
Won't you listen to me please
There are chickens in the trees

Chickens in the trees video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvv5gL1pGb0)

If a child is thought a habit from birth; don't you think that after ah while it becomes a conscience habit, which  would then become a chemical reaction stream from the brains cells...then its imbedded into the blood line anyhow yuh put it, but some ah alyuh to deep.

You highlight the sentence wrong.......it's "deeply in our bloodline from birth" which I took as people being intrinsicly racist...which again is a load.  When you put young children in a room together they they will play and make friends regardless of race, color, creed or religion.  It's only after they're taught to hate will they discriminate.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Weh-it-is on October 01, 2008, 07:03:08 AM
I guess everyone have their own views of this whole black and white issue and despite what, some may not change their views.

We must ask ourselves if we are real children of GOD and or not hypocrites, should we judge ah man by the color of his skin or the texture of his hair.  No one is saying to be nave to the fact that the problem still do exists, but how can we defuse or add to the problem. It is your choice!  Shalom.   
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: kev on October 01, 2008, 02:34:02 PM
Racism is a taught behaviour for the most part, and for the most part doesn't really exist in the English game although, no matter what anybody does it is not going to be wiped out. 

It really stems back to jobs thing and where populations were strongest for example in London it was black, in Birmingham and Yorkshire it is more Pakistani / Indian as those are where the populations tended to be the biggest. 

It never really existed in the North East as we never had big populations, that significantly changed the area, very few Africans, mostly indians or pakistanni.  It is now turning more towards Eastern Europeans because so many have come into the country, I would imagine as jobs dry up more racism will appear. 

I suppose if you are sensitive about it or that way inclined you tend to notice it more, whereas I don't tend to.  I always find it strange that it is always aimed at white people but some of the biggest racist I have met have been both black and white.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 01, 2008, 05:41:17 PM
Allyuh does take things too literal and out of context, love to put words in man mouth,and instigate racism when there's none.

when i say white , i don't mean white ppl in general , when i say white i talking bout ah white supremacist system, and not so much individualistic.

this world monetary system was fueled and established by slave labour / colonial money. and it's retained and up held by white supremacist policies. just look @ the countries that are underdeveloped, most of them are rich in natural resources, but are far in debt up to their chins, and most are countries of colour.

i agree and acknowledge there are a high % of white ppl who are not racist and help to establish justice in the world, but for the most part whites sit back and enjoy the privilege of being white and seldom even opposed the system of it's racist  policies.

how many of yuhs ever really investigate the amount of genocide that was and still is commited in the name economic stability ? what about foreign policy ?

allyuh better read ah forkin book and stop calling me names that cannot be substantiated !! or better yet ! if yuh live in the US of A , try and listen to WBAI for an accurate view of the world we live in and turn off kiss FM and KTU for ah change and gain some prospective !

as for those who live in T&T, i sorry for allyuh , BC allyuh ain't have ah prayer when it comes to ah so called liberal view of the world, that's BC allyuh was so colonized and programmed that allyuh might even try to kill jesus if he came back to teach allyuh sense,so stay in darkness and pick up ah flag , ah rag, and wave.


As much as I don't disagree with anything here that you said... much of it smacks of rationalization after the fact.  Saying white people look like monkeys and what not is a far cry from criticizing this mythical "white supremacist system" that you rail against.
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.

PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Bakes on October 01, 2008, 06:12:53 PM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.

Lol... I hear yuh 


... but at least you recognize that you run the risk of letting it "turn you into an equally racist fool"...  ;)
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: kicker on October 01, 2008, 06:19:46 PM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.


All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol.

Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on October 01, 2008, 06:55:32 PM
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
it still begs the question
Why?
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: mwanasoka on October 01, 2008, 07:43:18 PM
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
it still begs the question
Why?
Back in the day,massa didn't mind laying pipe with slave women especially deflowering them all the while hating the black man.Could be just a case of 'What's good for the Goose'.We might be a little hazy about 'The Why', but cock sure about 'The Why Not.' No pun intended.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: sammy on October 01, 2008, 07:57:30 PM

All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol.

Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....

lol

the black panther man in I'm Gonna git you sucker... :rotfl:
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Giggsy's Chestwig on October 01, 2008, 08:50:55 PM
He shoots
He scores
He'll eat your labradors
Ji Sung Park
Ji Sung Park

Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 01, 2008, 10:43:54 PM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.


All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol. Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....
that is somting ? you act like i murder somebody ?!! yuh know For all the time i on this forum , i tried to avoid knuckle heads like you ,BC just like another member , your view don't help to educate , enlighten or create positive discourse that may serve as a source of useful valuable information.

and even if i wanted to answer you i will desist, there's no point in engaging the fool hearted. you May wonder why i refer to you as such . well your record speak for it self! and of all the questions that this sensitive topic could encourage, look @ the one you choose to invoke, talk about bacchanalist ole hoe possey in hand half slip over the titie wearing question. mind yuh fackin business GYULLL! i could do what the fack i want with my life!

but for all who was wondering the same thing,i will oblige. for the last time, i believe in justice, and i put in ah fair amount of time in many differant orgs volunteering and helping the less fortunate, i hate oppression and insincerity with ah passion.


now for the time i spend away from T&T i've been around quite ah few differant cultures, and i came to the conclusion that i would not mix my seed with any other race but my own,so i set out to meet women of my persuasion, and no disrespect to my black sistren, it have a lot of positive well grounded women in all ethnic groups, however ah small fraction live in the Northeast @ least TMO, BC for the most part i've met quite ah few insincere selfish opportunistic women, with no social consciousness whatsoever, and ah mind set that life is what you see on the tube, but the most amazing part of that was, the vast majority with that disposition were black women.

in the places i've volunteered were asian women , south americans and whites, never have i met black daughters volunteering their time or involved in any social net works. and to me that's what make ah woman attractive and appealing , i not in the princess business , i want ah daughter who's not ashamed to put her shoulders to the wheel, one who not caught up in fackry, with ah positive earthy out look on life. so the daughters i network with was the ones i dated simple.

 i not saying it eh have no positive sisters, but they are extreemly rare in this neck of the woods! just pure saga gyul and models.

PS: you perceive me as militant and angy, but that's not who i am, that's your preception of ppl who don't turn ah blind eye , ppl who's not afraid to speak the truth , the way they see it.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on October 01, 2008, 11:53:23 PM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on October 02, 2008, 02:37:21 AM
He shoots
He scores
He'll eat your labradors
Ji Sung Park
Ji Sung Park
on a side note:
my bro works in Korea and he says that they will beat the dogs to death as the beating releases something into the blood stream.....too bad that they can't use a quick method to kill the dogs.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 02, 2008, 03:25:01 AM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.

i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!

who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!

ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on October 02, 2008, 05:17:42 AM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.

i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!

who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!

ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!

Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: kicker on October 02, 2008, 05:46:05 AM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.


All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol. Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....
that is somting ? you act like i murder somebody ?!! yuh know For all the time i on this forum , i tried to avoid knuckle heads like you ,BC just like another member , your view don't help to educate , enlighten or create positive discourse that may serve as a source of useful valuable information.

and even if i wanted to answer you i will desist, there's no point in engaging the fool hearted. you May wonder why i refer to you as such . well your record speak for it self! and of all the questions that this sensitive topic could encourage, look @ the one you choose to invoke, talk about bacchanalist ole hoe possey in hand half slip over the titie wearing question. mind yuh fackin business GYULLL! i could do what the fack i want with my life!

but for all who was wondering the same thing,i will oblige. for the last time, i believe in justice, and i put in ah fair amount of time in many differant orgs volunteering and helping the less fortunate, i hate oppression and insincerity with ah passion.


now for the time i spend away from T&T i've been around quite ah few differant cultures, and i came to the conclusion that i would not mix my seed with any other race but my own,so i set out to meet women of my persuasion, and no disrespect to my black sistren, it have a lot of positive well grounded women in all ethnic groups, however ah small fraction live in the Northeast @ least TMO, BC for the most part i've met quite ah few insincere selfish opportunistic women, with no social consciousness whatsoever, and ah mind set that life is what you see on the tube, but the most amazing part of that was, the vast majority with that disposition were black women.

in the places i've volunteered were asian women , south americans and whites, never have i met black daughters volunteering their time or involved in any social net works. and to me that's what make ah woman attractive and appealing , i not in the princess business , i want ah daughter who's not ashamed to put her shoulders to the wheel, one who not caught up in fackry, with ah positive earthy out look on life. so the daughters i network with was the ones i dated simple.

 i not saying it eh have no positive sisters, but they are extreemly rare in this neck of the woods! just pure saga gyul and models.

PS: you perceive me as militant and angy, but that's not who i am, that's your preception of ppl who don't turn ah blind eye , ppl who's not afraid to speak the truth , the way they see it.

ha- I never asked you to explain yourself- that's your business and I don't care.  It's just kinda funny how words & actions sometimes kinda paint divergent pictures....often parodied in comedies.  It was all a joke.  Thanks for the flattering comments nevertheless.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on October 02, 2008, 05:53:12 AM
hear nuh
all ah allya
thanks for the laughs
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: superoli on October 02, 2008, 06:41:10 AM
the goal.com article is beyond stupid. Of course there are problems with racism in english football....difference the FA and police actually do something about it and take action. I have been to games in Spain, Italt and France and little or no action takes place there. Go to PSG ground and there is whole section controlled by skinheads with racist banners and chants and nothing has been done for years.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: lickslikefire on October 02, 2008, 06:51:20 AM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.

PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Giggsy's Chestwig on October 02, 2008, 06:55:59 AM
Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong

This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on October 02, 2008, 07:03:26 AM
Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong

This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.

Nothing racist about that.

If the man went and put his business out in the road, the fact that he black is only incidental to the entire scenario. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure it would even fall into the category of abuse, more like compliments in a world with a phallocentric conception of virility.

On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Tallman on October 02, 2008, 07:07:36 AM
On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?

It had Watergate, it had de Iran-Contra affair, now it have de Roast Fowl Controversy  :rotfl:.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: morvant on October 02, 2008, 07:11:44 AM
He shoots
He scores
He'll eat your labradors
Ji Sung Park
Ji Sung Park



if allyuh cyar sing that allyuh rellllllllll boring boy

that funny i doh care what allyuh say

and on a side note. black people could only talk racism but we does lime and bull everybody

justcool just talking cause i know he like all kinda meat. white, chinese, mongolian, mexican etc........
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Weh-it-is on October 02, 2008, 08:06:32 AM
As I traveled on my way to work on the subway this morning, there were two beautiful looking Spanish/Brazilian women sitting together. They stood out of the majority of people on the train in the back of my invested racist prejudice mind. Why?  It just hit me that I categories people by the way they look or the facial features, skin color, texture of hair, shape and size. I was just as bad as the KKK and Thee Nazis whatever!  What we call beautiful, is it what GOD call beautiful?  If Whoopi Goldberg and Eva Mendez stood on a platform together before the world. Guess who wed choose! The majority of People would choose Eva Mendez.   Our minds are so polluted and it just goes to show that the problem is much more than white people hating blacks or being prejudice.  Let us search ourselves.  Take a look at how our eyes and minds are trained/polluted to whos beautiful.


(http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/wehitis/whoopi-goldberg.jpg)


(http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/wehitis/eva-mendes-earrings.jpg)
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: dinho on October 02, 2008, 08:35:49 AM
lol..

this thread is some kicks.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Dutty on October 02, 2008, 08:48:34 AM
As I traveled on my way to work on the subway this morning, there were two beautiful looking Spanish/Brazilian women sitting together. They stood out of the majority of people on the train in the back of my invested racist prejudice mind. Why?  It just hit me that I categories people by the way they look or the facial features, skin color, texture of hair, shape and size. I was just as bad as the KKK and Thee Nazis whatever!  What we call beautiful, is it what GOD call beautiful?  If Whoopi Goldberg and Eva Mendez stood on a platform together before the world. Guess who wed choose! The majority of People would choose Eva Mendez.   Our minds are so polluted and it just goes to show that the problem is much more than white people hating blacks or being prejudice.  Let us search ourselves.  Take a look at how our eyes and minds are trained/polluted to whos beautiful.




I dunno fren

If Tyra Banks and Roseanne Barr was on the same train ...you eh think yuh trained mind would untrain itself one time

de pollution go come clear

Ok, to get closer to the ethnicities in your example pics,, Wendy Fitzwilliam or Rosie Perez
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Giggsy's Chestwig on October 02, 2008, 08:56:08 AM
Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong

This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.

Nothing racist about that.

If the man went and put his business out in the road, the fact that he black is only incidental to the entire scenario. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure it would even fall into the category of abuse, more like compliments in a world with a phallocentric conception of virility.

On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?

Never said that did I?

I just put it forward as an example of how these sorts of chants can be misinterpreted...
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: ribbit on October 02, 2008, 09:38:11 AM
talk about bacchanalist ole hoe possey in hand half slip over the titie wearing question

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

jc, this make me laugh breds.

Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 03, 2008, 03:23:14 AM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.

i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!

who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!

ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!

Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 04, 2008, 04:08:23 AM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.

PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
You could only find fault with me,and not dem racist whites, and yuh can't sympahtize with my diposition niether, but if ah fella only call yuh ah coolie yuh ready to bring down god and the angels just like the jew! ah get yuh drift partner, ah niggar is just like ah dog , we could take dis!! we skin tough.

and we can't complain about 400 yrs of slavery aparthied and colonialism niether! after all massa feed we and clothe we, plus he teach we how to wear clothes and shoes, brush we teeth with tooth paste,eat with knife and fork, save we soul from damnation, BC we used to worship idols, introduce us to civilization as we know it! so how dare i bring up racist back lash when ah fella constanly insulting me without provocation! how ungreatful of me !tell meh, how much justice and understanding yuh have in yuh even though you're not the victim ?!! could you see life from another man's prospective and be just without prejudice ?

just ask cyd gray how he felt on septenbet 10th 2008, ah bet he felt more like me than you!!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: diamondtrim on October 04, 2008, 05:28:12 AM
dis thread have alot of sensitive cats.....wow

Mr Bake shock mih wid some of he posts....sensible, calm, nifty.

Some odders have real issues...like dem on d forum makin subconcious calls for counsellin.

We all know racism is taught and learned beahaviour but I aint really postin to get into d schematics of all ah dat.

I jus find dat men hadda find some kinda hobby....when ah dude hadda spit so much fire to everybody, it mean dat he have real problems.....dis forum have ah hyperlink to Dr Phil or Tyra?

D moderators should set up dat
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 04, 2008, 12:31:19 PM
Since yuh so concerned about man mental state then Bring yuh gyul as therapy nah.

even if she's unattractive she would be well received.

no wonder it have so much murder in TRINI, it have real macomare man livin deh now,ah far cry from when i was there, imagine fellas want to analyse man now!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: diamondtrim on October 04, 2008, 12:54:06 PM
point proven
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 04, 2008, 01:24:22 PM
point proven
Go yuh road with yuh gyul attitude nah fella !! i doh have nutten fuh yuh!
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: lickslikefire on October 04, 2008, 03:01:50 PM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.

PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
You could only find fault with me,and not dem racist whites, and yuh can't sympahtize with my diposition niether, but if ah fella only call yuh ah coolie yuh ready to bring down god and the angels just like the jew! ah get yuh drift partner, ah niggar is just like ah dog , we could take dis!! we skin tough.

and we can't complain about 400 yrs of slavery aparthied and colonialism niether! after all massa feed we and clothe we, plus he teach we how to wear clothes and shoes, brush we teeth with tooth paste,eat with knife and fork, save we soul from damnation, BC we used to worship idols, introduce us to civilization as we know it! so how dare i bring up racist back lash when ah fella constanly insulting me without provocation! how ungreatful of me !tell meh, how much justice and understanding yuh have in yuh even though you're not the victim ?!! could you see life from another man's prospective and be just without prejudice ?

just ask cyd gray how he felt on septenbet 10th 2008, ah bet he felt more like me than you!!
(1) if a man call me coolie I would laugh since i not even indian
(2) it is obvious that no one could rationalize with you so take win  :beermug:
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 04, 2008, 04:25:31 PM
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.

so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!

if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.

PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
You could only find fault with me,and not dem racist whites, and yuh can't sympahtize with my diposition niether, but if ah fella only call yuh ah coolie yuh ready to bring down god and the angels just like the jew! ah get yuh drift partner, ah niggar is just like ah dog , we could take dis!! we skin tough.

and we can't complain about 400 yrs of slavery aparthied and colonialism niether! after all massa feed we and clothe we, plus he teach we how to wear clothes and shoes, brush we teeth with tooth paste,eat with knife and fork, save we soul from damnation, BC we used to worship idols, introduce us to civilization as we know it! so how dare i bring up racist back lash when ah fella constanly insulting me without provocation! how ungreatful of me !tell meh, how much justice and understanding yuh have in yuh even though you're not the victim ?!! could you see life from another man's prospective and be just without prejudice ?

just ask cyd gray how he felt on septenbet 10th 2008, ah bet he felt more like me than you!!
(1) if a man call me coolie I would laugh since i not even indian
(2) it is obvious that no one could rationalize with you so take win  :beermug:
my mistake, i swore there was a lime in canada where there was a picture of an indian fella with the name lickslikefire as the as to dipict the dude in the photo. my bad.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on October 05, 2008, 06:28:19 PM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.

i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!

who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!

ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!

Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!

I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.

Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.

But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:

Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole

Stay "Cool".
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: WestCoast on October 05, 2008, 06:49:00 PM
(http://www.theclaydawgs.com/forum/images/smilies/hammers.gif)
sorry wrong thread excuse me
(http://www.theclaydawgs.com/forum/images/smilies/hide2.gif)
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 06, 2008, 11:54:56 PM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.

i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!

who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!

ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!

Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!

I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.

Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.

But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:

Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole

Stay "Cool".
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!

 yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!

don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.

you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.

 but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.

yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.



PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!

you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back.                                        positive.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: kicker on October 07, 2008, 10:26:50 AM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.

i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!

who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!

ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!

Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!

I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.

Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.

But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:

Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole

Stay "Cool".
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!

 yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!

don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.

you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.

 but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.

yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.



PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!

you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back.                                        positive.

Aye leave me outta your self righteous diatribe nuh...enough is enough.  I made one lil joke...and it wasn't even that personal (unless you take yourself way way too seriously which is becoming more evident by the day)..... and you're the one who opened up a can of personal insults on me.  Put me in my place? haha....that's a laugh- stop flattering yourself.  For the record I not on you (or anyone for that matter)...so doh be on me either... thanks.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Weh-it-is on October 07, 2008, 10:37:28 AM
Try harder

In other news

 Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Quote
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.

The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.

i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!

who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!

ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!

Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!

I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.

Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.

But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:

Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole

Stay "Cool".
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!

 yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!

don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.

you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.

 but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.

yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.



PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!

you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back.                                        positive.

Aye leave me outta your self righteous diatribe nuh...enough is enough.  I made one lil joke...and it wasn't even that personal (unless you take yourself way way too seriously which is becoming more evident by the day)..... and you're the one who opened up a can of personal insults on me.  Put me in my place? haha....that's a laugh- stop flattering yourself.  For the record I not on you (or anyone for that matter)...so doh be on me either... thanks.

Love and happiness...
something that can make you do wrong, make you do right...
Love...

Love and happiness
Wait a minute...
something's going wrong
someone's on the phone
three o'clock in the morning
talkin' about how we can make it right
well,
happiness is when you really feel good with somebody
nothing wrong with being in one with someone
oh, baby, love and happiness
love and happiness...
love and happiness... Thanks to AL Green  ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfWPDGWP568
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on October 07, 2008, 05:25:54 PM
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!

 yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!

don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.

you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.

 but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.

yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.



PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!

you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back.                                        positive.

If it wasn't for you I wouldn't know I needed to check myself into the clinic. Thanks for the psychoanalysis Sigmund. In addition to knowing that my frustration lies from the oedipus complex linked to being perpetually under my mother's skirt and eating with my father's silver spoon, I now also realise that my desire to actually be able to understand what I read is some sort of latent impulse of oneupmanship to demarcate myself from the proletarianism to which my black skin eternally binds me despite my "middle class background" and "private school education"...

As for my last sentence, was I supposed to react to your sudden burst of insults by holding my cheek and acting shocked? My Bad. I didn't get the memo.

I find it somewhat ludicrous that you have to harp back to a spelling suggestion that I made probably more than a year ago to explain your response. I won't waste time going into the how and the why of yours (or weary's) posting style - as far as I'm concerned it has no bearing on anything at the present moment. All I can say is that it what you call being "on your case" then you have much more serious problems than my "passive aggressivity".

Two aspirin and a good night's sleep usually clears it up I believe.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: Midknight on October 07, 2008, 05:27:18 PM
Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong

This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.

Nothing racist about that.

If the man went and put his business out in the road, the fact that he black is only incidental to the entire scenario. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure it would even fall into the category of abuse, more like compliments in a world with a phallocentric conception of virility.

On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?

Never said that did I?

I just put it forward as an example of how these sorts of chants can be misinterpreted...

I should have phrased my response differently, I guess.

We're both on the same page.
Title: Re: Racism in English Football!
Post by: just cool on October 07, 2008, 05:48:15 PM
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!

 yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!

don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.

you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.

 but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.

yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.



PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!

you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back.                                        positive.

If it wasn't for you I wouldn't know I needed to check myself into the clinic. Thanks for the psychoanalysis Sigmund. In addition to knowing that my frustration lies from the oedipus complex linked to being perpetually under my mother's skirt and eating with my father's silver spoon, I now also realise that my desire to actually be able to understand what I read is some sort of latent impulse of oneupmanship to demarcate myself from the proletarianism to which my black skin eternally binds me despite my "middle class background" and "private school education"...

As for my last sentence, was I supposed to react to your sudden burst of insults by holding my cheek and acting shocked? My Bad. I didn't get the memo.

I find it somewhat ludicrous that you have to harp back to a spelling suggestion that I made probably more than a year ago to explain your response. I won't waste time going into the how and the why of yours (or weary's) posting style - as far as I'm concerned it has no bearing on anything at the present moment. All I can say is that it what you call being "on your case" then you have much more serious problems than my "passive aggressivity".

Two aspirin and a good night's sleep usually clears it up I believe.
Yuhs ah real mama man guy, trust meh ! yuh and yuh girl fren kickher !
Title: Ferdinand hits out at FIFAs weak reaction to racism
Post by: Football supporter on October 08, 2008, 07:16:08 PM
England defender Rio Ferdinand has accused FIFA of going soft on racism after failing to deduct points from Croatia.

The Croatian Football Federation was fined 30,000 Swiss francs (15,000) by FIFA for racist abuse aimed at Emile Heskey in England's 4-1 World Cup qualifying win in Zagreb.

Ferdinand said FIFA had failed to act strongly enough.

"The football authorities need to look at themselves. They make a lot of comments and say they are going to do this or that but they never back up the words with actions," Ferdinand told BBC Radio Five Live.

"Croatia were fined a few thousand pounds. What good is that going to do? They will just keep doing it. If they keep doing things like this you have to take points off them. Then the punters will start thinking if they do it, the team is going to be punished."

Croatia's football federation was also fined nearly 12,500 euros for the racist behaviour of fans at the team's Euro 2008 quarter-final against Turkey in June.

Ferdinand said not enough was being done to combat racism, despite FIFA's decree that it would continue "deploying all of the means at its disposal to eliminate this form of discrimination".

Ferdinand added: "These people at FIFA and UEFA seem to like talking about a lot of stuff that is fashionable at the time. They don't deal with the important things in the right manner.

"I would love to see them stand up and dish out the right punishments for these incidents. Sepp Blatter likes to speak up about things that are good for FIFA's image.

"It would be nice to see him do the same about racism."

Title: Re: Ferdinand hits out at FIFAs weak reaction to racism
Post by: weary1969 on October 08, 2008, 09:17:24 PM
Very well said Rio racism is not 2 b taken lightly
Title: Re: Ferdinand hits out at FIFAs weak reaction to racism
Post by: GunnerStunner on October 08, 2008, 09:21:38 PM
yup thierry say so years ago too

but check this

eufa and fifa run by majority old rich white men

dock points and ban from competitions will make associations and gov't act

we all know those who doh listen does feel, stop pussy footing FIFA
Title: Chelsea FC Black and Blue: An Anti-Racism Video
Post by: Andre on November 03, 2008, 06:30:49 PM
chelski make a good looking anti-racism video.

big up to dem for that.

look a clip from it here.

i want to see it but it only in chelsea tv now.

anybody from the UK could record and share?

http://digg.com/soccer/Chelsea_FC_Black_and_Blue_An_Anti_Racism_Video
Title: Re: Chelsea FC Black and Blue: An Anti-Racism Video
Post by: kicker on November 03, 2008, 06:47:31 PM
Boo Hoo.  A bunch of black fellas cryin' about racism....blah blah...

When the white players start standing up against racism in football, in a vocal and outspoken manner...and when the white players start walking off the field at the sound of monkey chants, then we in business...

Everybody expects the abused to cry...when everyone starts to cry then ppl will realize that this is not a problem affecting black players, it's a problem everyone.

Title: Re: Chelsea FC Black and Blue: An Anti-Racism Video
Post by: acb on November 03, 2008, 06:51:20 PM
Good video ... even though Anelka sound like a flower power child talking about only love in this game

However, I remember our own Shaka had gotten interviewed, as he was one of the main persons in the early days of promoting the anti-racism policies.

He said something to the tune that one day he was filling up his car at the gas station, and these kids started hurling vitriolic racist abuse at him. Then as they approached him, they realised who he was and immediately acted as though they had seen the Messiah.

Title: Re: Chelsea FC Black and Blue: An Anti-Racism Video
Post by: Filho on November 04, 2008, 10:22:26 AM
Good video ... even though Anelka sound like a flower power child talking about only love in this game

However, I remember our own Shaka had gotten interviewed, as he was one of the main persons in the early days of promoting the anti-racism policies.

He said something to the tune that one day he was filling up his car at the gas station, and these kids started hurling vitriolic racist abuse at him. Then as they approached him, they realised who he was and immediately acted as though they had seen the Messiah.



good talk. he said they actually asked for his autograph when they make him out.

Eto'o says the same thing happens to him in Barcelona.

kicker is right. you need the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Raul, Casillas, etc look at the monkey chanters in Spain and just walk off the field..Until then, the message will have some power but not anywhere near the kinda power it could have. de fans have to see their national heros take a stance.

on a side note..nations with a visible racist element in the stadia, need a brilliant black player :devil: nothing would change attitudes like if say...i doh know...maradona was black. Imagine a black man in that Argentine uniform running through that England squad in 86. What if Casillas was black? Or Torres. If Balotelli lives up to the hype and leads Italy to another WC win in a few years...yeah..I really feel some people eyse will open up. heheh. I know..dat is no real solution to the socail problem..and that is what it is..a serious social problem (as opposed to just a football prblem)..That is kinda just glossing over the issue. But it would help and does show how influential players are over any club president, politician etc. small theory..doh beat me up wid dat  ;)
Title: Re: Chelsea FC Black and Blue: An Anti-Racism Video
Post by: Andre on November 04, 2008, 10:48:50 AM
Good video ... even though Anelka sound like a flower power child talking about only love in this game

However, I remember our own Shaka had gotten interviewed, as he was one of the main persons in the early days of promoting the anti-racism policies.

He said something to the tune that one day he was filling up his car at the gas station, and these kids started hurling vitriolic racist abuse at him. Then as they approached him, they realised who he was and immediately acted as though they had seen the Messiah.



good talk. he said they actually asked for his autograph when they make him out.

Eto'o says the same thing happens to him in Barcelona.

kicker is right. you need the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Raul, Casillas, etc look at the monkey chanters in Spain and just walk off the field..Until then, the message will have some power but not anywhere near the kinda power it could have. de fans have to see their national heros take a stance.

on a side note..nations with a visible racist element in the stadia, need a brilliant black player :devil: nothing would change attitudes like if say...i doh know...maradona was black. Imagine a black man in that Argentine uniform running through that England squad in 86. What if Casillas was black? Or Torres. If Balotelli lives up to the hype and leads Italy to another WC win in a few years...yeah..I really feel some people eyse will open up. heheh. I know..dat is no real solution to the socail problem..and that is what it is..a serious social problem (as opposed to just a football prblem)..That is kinda just glossing over the issue. But it would help and does show how influential players are over any club president, politician etc. small theory..doh beat me up wid dat  ;)

senna black and IMHO was an important player in spain winning euro 2008.

if senna was not marshalling that midfield in front de defense like a general so, spain woulda be out in the 1st round as usually.
Title: Re: Chelsea FC Black and Blue: An Anti-Racism Video
Post by: acb on November 04, 2008, 11:44:36 AM
Senna is undoubtedly important, but to say that he stands out is another. Spain needs a stand-out black player to have an impact, much like what Henry does for France, Rio for England etc.

The best hope we have in the modern game of that happening is African and Brasilian players adopting nations as their homes, and becoming stars on those respective teams. If teams in the old Eastern block had one Essien each on their team, you would see how quickly all that non-sense would stop.
Title: Re: Chelsea FC Black and Blue: An Anti-Racism Video
Post by: Filho on November 04, 2008, 01:08:20 PM

senna black and IMHO was an important player in spain winning euro 2008.

if senna was not marshalling that midfield in front de defense like a general so, spain woulda be out in the 1st round as usually.

two things:

1) Senna is not Spanish. No matter how long he plays for Spain, he will be considered a naturalized Brazilian. he may (or may not) even have an accent when he talks Spanish. This makes a difference. I believe there would be a different sensitivity, and level of ownership for a black player one who is born and bred there. There would still be some debate about roots, but no argument about nationality and cultural affiliation. So I disagree a little with acb..it probably means more when it is a player born, or at least raised there..speaks the local dialect naturally, has the local mannerisms, etc.

2) Senna does not play in a position that typically endears maximum fan and media adulation. You need players who stand out in a game..It is possible when you look at guys like Patrick Vierira, Makalele, Edgar Davids...but much easier when you're a forward, creative mid, or even a goalkeeper. People whose influence on games are more tangible and noticable..saves, goals, dribbling for example. And besides..I am speaking about a brilliant player..someone who you paying for your ticket to see. Dinho, Ronaldo, Messi etc.

Again..it would have to be an exceptional player who is 'larger than life'. Senna is not in this class.

Anyway..I think its pretty clear I'm only wondering aloud what kind of effect say..a Eusebio has on Portugal football fans idea of race. It's not a solution to the real problem, but might act as a catalyst for some serious change
Title: The Gillie Heron story
Post by: Trini _2022 on January 17, 2009, 08:41:42 AM
The Gillie Heron story
BBC Caribbean

Jamaican Gilbert 'Gillie' Heron, who died on November 27, 2008, aged 86 in Detroit, was the first black person to play professional football in the United States and Scotland.
Gillie Heron in action for many-time Scottish champions Celtic Football Club.
Signed by Celtic FC in 1951, Heron, a striker, scored a goal on his debut.
"Right now he is Scottish football's golden boy," said a newspaper of Heron, who was discovered by Celtic while on a US tour in 1951.
"Fifty thousand supporters hail him as the greatest thing seen at Celtic Park since goalposts."
Indeed, so beloved was Gillie Heron - whom Celtic fans called 'Black Flash' and 'Black Arrow' - Scottish singer, Michael Marra, in 2007, wrote a song in tribute to the Jamaican called The Flight of the Heron.
"He crossed the ocean to the other side/To play for Celtic with the
noble stride/The Arrow flew, he's flying yet/His aim was true so we don't forget."
And Celtic fans have not forgotten what one newspaper described as Gillie Heron's exceptional "ball control, magnificent headwork" and "camera-shutter speed".
Gillie was fast off field, too. A sharp dresser, Heron, according to writer Gerry Hassan, lit up dull, post-war Glasgow with his zoot suits, broad brimmed hats and colourful shoes in 1951.
"Here is a city about the size of Detroit," Heron told the Daily Record, comparing Glasgow to the American city his Jamaican family migrated to in 1939 when he was 17 years old. "It drops dead at 9:00 pm".
Still, for Heron, who had spent most of his football career at small clubs in the US, the chance to play for Celtic was a dream come true.
"Gee, I was tickled," Heron told a newspaper after arriving in Scotland from Detroit, where following a stint in the Canadian armed forces during the war he worked in an auto plant while playing football. "Glasgow Celtic was," Heron said, "the greatest name in football to me".
Before making a name for himself in Scotland, Gillie had made a name for himself in the United States playing for the US all-star team, for semi-pro teams like the Detroit Corinthians and for pro teams like the Detroit Wolverines.
In 1946, Gillie's team, the Wolverines, won the North American Professional Soccer League championship. The Jamaican - the only black player in US pro football at that time - was the league's top scorer with 29 goals. "He's smart" said Wolverines manager John McInness of Heron, "just like a cat".
In a 1947 profile, Ebony magazine described Heron as the 'Babe Ruth of soccer'.
"The ancient Old-World game of soccer boasts a New-World star," Ebony said.
Gilbert St Elmo Heron was a sporting renaissance man. He was a Golden Gloves welterweight boxing champion. He played pro cricket in Scotland and he was a top long jumper, high jumper and sprinter.
As a schoolboy in Jamaica, Gillie Heron defeated Herb McKenley, who would go on later to become a world record holder and an Olympic gold medallist.
In 1937, aged 15, Gillie Heron led St George's College to victory in the Manning Cup and the Olivier Shield. And in 1952, he played on the Jamaica Football Association XI against the Caribbean Combined XI at Sabina Park.
Gillie Heron was not the only one in his family, who hails from Manchester, to achieve sporting distinction. A cousin, 'Morty' Heron, was a well-known racehorse trainer and Gillie's brothers - Cecil and Gerald - played on the Michigan State University football team. In 1948, Cecil earned a place on the US Olympic team but could not participate because he was not yet a US citizen.
Cecil, who was also a tennis pro and a scuba diving instructor, helped popularise volleyball in Jamaica in the 1960s.
As for Gillie Heron, though he'd been a success in Jamaica, and in the US, his time in Scotland was brief. He stayed only a year at Celtic, playing only four first team games and scoring twice.
It's claimed the club felt Heron was not robust enough for the Scottish game and their tough tackles and rough play.
Heron was criticised in newspapers as "lacking resource when challenged", according to sports historian Phil Vasili.
Out of favour, Gillie Heron was demoted to Celtic's reserves. And though he scored 15 times in 15 matches for them, he left the club, which he called "the greatest name in football", a year after he first arrived there for the lowly Scottish side, Third Lanark.
In 1953, he moved to Kidderminster Harriers, a semi-professional club in England. He got off to a good start, scoring "a goal worthy of inclusion in any FA text book", a newspaper reported.
But in 1954, Gillie Heron returned home to Detroit. With a family to support, he took a job on the assembly line at the Ford Motor Car Company, staying 30 years. Any dreams he had of football as a career were over. The year he spent with Celtic was the best of his life.
Years later, Gillie wrote a poem, The Great Ones, about his time there.
"I'll remember all the great ones/Those that I have seen/Those that I have played with/Who wore the white and green."
There are several reasons why Gillie Heron's time at Celtic was so brief. He was too stylish a player for the rough and tough football played in Britain in the 1950s and aged 29 when he arrived at Celtic, he was probably past his best, anyway.
Americans sportswriter Frank Dell'apa believes Heron was unlucky to have been born when he was. Today Heron, whom he calls 'the forgotten pioneer of US soccer', would, he says, have had a long career at Celtic and then earned a good living playing in the North American Soccer League. Dell'apa also suggests Gillie Heron was hamstrung by racism.
Though the Jamaican was the top goal scorer in US pro football in 1946, he was paid only $25 a game compared with the $100 a game paid to white player Pete Matevich, who scored far fewer goals than did Heron.
Gayle Heron, who along with the singer Gil Scott-Heron, is one of
Gillie Heron's four children, said her father was not bitter he got such little recognition.
"He knows he was a pioneer," she says.
Still, Gillie 'Black Flash' Heron, the US' first black professional footballer, has not yet been inducted into the US National Soccer Hall of Fame.
Leslie Gordon Goffe, a correspondent for BBC's Caribbean Service, is completing a book on Gillie Heron and Gil Scott-Heron called, Pieces of a Man.
Title: Re: The Gillie Heron story
Post by: #4 on January 18, 2009, 09:48:03 AM
Very interesting read...I've always known of Gil-Scott Heron, but never of his father. Thanks for posting this.
Title: Re: The Gillie Heron story
Post by: Big Magician on January 18, 2009, 09:50:48 AM
blessings to the family
Title: Racism in football Thread.
Post by: acb on February 06, 2009, 06:00:31 PM
Major Incidents of Racism in Football

I remember when Yorke ress up the man at Birmingham City for making monkey chants at him .... but maybe that was more than 5 years ago. Check this list out from the last 5 years. I don't recall the two incidents with these Trinis, but it's still shocking!!


Quote

Major racist incidents in European soccer
By The Associated Press

A list of some of the major incidents of racism in soccer throughout Europe over the last five years.

April 2004: Former Manchester United coach Ron Atkinson resigns from television channel ITV after being caught making a racist comment on the air about Chelseas Marcel Desailly, who is black. Atkinson, who thought his microphone was off, also quits his job as a columnist for The Guardian newspaper.

November 2004: Black English players Shaun Wright-Phillips and Ashley Cole are abused by monkey chants when Spain hosts England in an exhibition game in Madrid. Spain coach Luis Aragones is also caught on camera racially abusing Arsenal forward Thierry Henry in a bid to motivate Jose Antonio Reyes, Henrys Arsenal teammate at the time.

January 2005: As part of an anti-racism initiative in the French league, Paris Saint-Germains players wear all-white jerseys and Lens players wear all-black during a French league match at Parc des Princes in Paris. The move backfires as racist elements among PSGs crowd in the Kop of Boulogne sing Come on the whites. The racist overtone is backed up with monkey chants from the Boulogne crowd when Lens players touch the ball. France midfielder Patrick Vieira, present in the crowd that night, vows not to set foot in Parc des Princes again.

February 2005: Barcelona forward Samuel Etoo is racially abused at a match in Zaragoza, where fans make monkey chants and throw peanuts onto the pitch when the Cameroon star gets the ball. Referee Fernando Carmona Mendez makes no mention of the incidents in his match report.

November 2005: Ivory Coast defender Marc Zoro, then playing for Italian team Messina in Serie A, is abused by Inter Milan fans with monkey chants. He attempts to stop the match by walking off with the ball. All matches the following week in Italy are delayed by five minutes as part of an anti-racism initiative in reaction to the abuse aimed at Zoro.

February 2006: Etoo is racially abused again at Zaragoza and threatens to walk off the field, with only a desperate intervention by Barcelona coach Frank Rijkaard stopping him. Footage of the match shows Etoo saying No mas (No more) as he walks toward the sidelines.

March 2006: In a match between Sachsen Leipzig and Hallescher FC, Leipzigs Nigerian midfielder Adebowale Ogungbure is spat at and racially abused by opposition fans. In retaliation, Ogungbure places two fingers above his mouth and salutes the crowd, a reference to Adolf Hitler. Ogungbure is arrested by German police, because it is illegal to make Nazi gestures for political or abusive purposes, but criminal proceedings against him are dropped soon after.

October 2006: In Serbia, 37 Borac Cacak fans are arrested and eight face criminal charges after racially abusing the clubs Zimbabwean player Mike Temwanjira during a first division match. Several days later, 152 supporters of first division side Rad Belgrade are detained after shouting anti-Muslim slogans during a match against their Novi Pazar rivals. In 2007, UEFA fines the Serbian Football Association for racial insults by fans aimed at black players during the under-21 European championship match against England played in the Netherlands.

November 2006: PSG fan Julien Quemener is shot and killed by off-duty police officer Antoine Granomort, who is protecting a Jewish fan under attack from a large PSG hate mob after a UEFA Cup match against Israels Hapoel Tel Aviv.

February 2007: St. Johnstone forward Jason Scotland is racially abused by fans of Scottish club Motherwell. The offenders are promptly reprimanded by the spectators around them, then reported to police and match stewards. Motherwell chairman John Boyle issues an apology on behalf of the club.

March 2007: In a match between Lithuania and France, Lithuania fans unfurl a racist banner directed against Frances many black players, and representing a map of Africa, painted with the French flag colors and a slogan saying Welcome to Europe.

April 2007: Gillingham goalkeeper Kelvin Jack is racially abused by a Rotherham fan, who is banned for life by the club.

August 2007: Borussia Dortmund goalkeeper Roman Weidenfeller is investigated by the German FA for allegedly calling forward Gerald Asamoah a black pig.

August 2007: Midfielder DaMarcus Beasley, a black American from Indiana, was taunted by fans who made monkey chants after he scored his first goal for Glasgow Rangers in a Champions League qualifier at FK Zeta in Bijelo Polje, Montenegro.

September 2007: After replacing Jose Mourinho as Chelsea manager, Israeli Avram Grant is the subject of death threats, hate mail and anti-Semitic chants. Grants father was a Polish survivor of the Holocaust.

September 2007: Libournes Burkina Faso player Boubacar Kebe is ejected by the match referee for reacting to racial abuse from Bastia fans. The Kebe affair eventually leads to Bastia being docked pointsa rarity.

February 2008: Morocco defender Abdeslam Ouaddou of Valenciennes climbs into the stands at Metz to confront a fan racially abusing him. The match referee shows Ouaddou a yellow card for unsportsmanlike behavior. The French soccer league (LFP) calls for harsher sanctions against racism.

April and May 2008: PSG fans racially abuse black passers by and attack an Arab man at a Paris metro station before both the League Cup final against Lens and the French Cup final against Lyon. Despite a police presence, there are no interventions.

March 2008: Ghanaian player Solomon Opoku is attacked by Serbian fans of his team, Borac Cacak, when returning from a match. A Serbian court sentences four of the aggressors to a total of four and a half years imprisonment for the racially motivated attack.

March 2008: Olympique Marseille players Ronald Zubar, Taye Taiwo and Mamadou Niang, all black, are abused by Russian fans of Zenit St. Petersburg who throw bananas on the pitch and make monkey chants. Marseille reports the incidents to UEFA, European soccers governing body, which fines Zenit $58,000. Zenit goes on to win the UEFA Cup.

September 2008: Portsmouth defender Sol Campbell, who is black, is abused by Tottenham supporters, whose insults include the image of Campbell hanging from a tree. In January, four of the fans involved are banned from attending soccer matches for three years after pleading guilty to indecent chanting.

November 2008: Playing for Middlesbrough against Newcastle, the Egyptian forward Mido is subjected to Islamophobic chanting from a small number of Newcastle fans. Mido had been subjected to similar chants the previous year, again from Newcastle fans.

January 2009: Spains soccer federation fines Real Madrid about $3,900 after a group of fans makes fascist gestures and chants fascist slogans at a match. Match referee Alfonso Perez Burrull cites extremist or radical symbolism, and chants making reference to the gas chamber.

Title: Re: Major Incidents of Racism in Football
Post by: acb on February 06, 2009, 06:07:45 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AiOWXNn0wP2HYVvQ0Pf3yY4mw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsoccerii&prov=ap&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AiOWXNn0wP2HYVvQ0Pf3yY4mw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsoccerii&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Quote
How England tackled football racism
By JEROME PUGMIRE, AP Sports Writer

PARIS (AP)About 20 years ago, English soccer was decimated by fan violence, in and outside of stadiums.

Now as England prepares to play Spain in an exhibition game on Wednesday, its top league is regarded as the wealthiest and best-marketed in the world, and the Spanish are under scrutiny for racism.

English authorities have mostly eliminated taunts and racial epithets from stadiums, refused entry to known troublemakers and done away with overcrowding by insisting on all-seat grounds.

Anti-racism activists say Spain has one of the bigger problems on the continent. Because Englands players endured racial taunts in Madrid in 2004, the location of this match was switched from Madrid to Sevilla.

The problem lingers.

Real Madrids radical fans, the Ultra Sur, made fascist gestures and shouted extremist slogans during a match against Osasuna on Jan. 18. In his match report, referee Alfonso Perez Burrull cited extremist or radical symbolism, and chants that made reference to the gas chamber, death to Osasuna and loyalty to fascism.

Three days later, Spains soccer federation fined Real Madrid 3,000 euros ($3,900).

In August, Spains national basketball team defended an ad campaign in which it posed with its eyes slanted to mimmic Chinese people as part of a Beijing Games campaign.

Racism hit Formula One racing last year, when Lewis Hamilton, who is black, endured racial slurs at F1 testing in Barcelona. Spanish fans wore black face-paint and held up banners saying Hamilton Family at the Montmelo circuit.

Javier Martinez, a spokesman for Anti-Racism in Madrid, thinks Spain is in denial.

There is a level of racism in society because, in some ways, its socially accepted, Martinez said. Its used in a humoristic or comic form and is tolerated and accepted.

Simon Kuper, author of Football Against the Enemy, compares Spain now to England of the 1980s. The racist jokes stopped in England, Kuper says, because the general public had enough of them.

There was a social mood, society was no longer accepting that stuff in England, Kuper said. Football doesnt tend to take the lead, but by the 90s it was no longer that acceptable in Britain anymore to make racist jokes.

England started tackling its problems after two triggering events. The first was when Liverpool fans rioted in Brussels Heysel Stadium before the 1985 European Cup final against Juventus, and 39 spectators died as a wall collapsed on them. The second occurred four years later, when 96 Liverpool fans were crushed to death on the overcrowded terraces at Sheffield Wednesdays Hillsborough Stadium at an English FA Cup semifinal game between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

Along with the Taylor Report, which recommended that standing sections be eliminated by 1994, came a new attitude that insults and racial abuse would not be tolerated.

We got the ball rolling, former Crystal Palace forward Mark Bright, who is black, said in a recent telephone interview.

Bright, who also played for Sheffield Wednesday and Charlton, recalled how nasty the atmosphere used to be in England.

(Racism) was at most grounds. When I started at Port Vale in 84-85, you used to get abuse off your opponents, the opponents bench, and the crowd because there was (only) a handful (of black players) sprinkled throughout the league, Bright said.

By the mid-1990s, the Professional Footballers Association backed anti-racism campaigns such as Kick It Out, in conjunction with the Commission for Racial Equality, and Show Racism the Red Card.

Bright, who is black, credits PFA chief executive Gordon Taylor as instrumental in turning the tide by grasping the nettle and saying You know what, weve got to do something about this.

Established in 1996, Show Racism the Red Card has harnessed the high profile of professional playerssuch as Manchester United captain Rio Ferdinandto combat racism. Through films, workshops, posters and DVDs, SRTRC sends out an anti-racism message at soccer grounds and schools across England, Scotland and Wales.

This campaign is one of the leading campaigns in trying to stamp (racism) out of the game, Ferdinand said. Drumming it home to the kids, that any type of racism isnt needed. In school, anywhere, in any workplace. We are definitely on the right track, but I still think there is a long way to go.

Bright said the Kick It Out campaign gained momentum slowly but made a major impact on the psyche of football fans. Taylor phoned several leading black players in the game, including Bright, Paul Ince and Ian Wright and said, Youre in the Premier League. Im asking for your help, according to Bright.

The British press also played a role in swaying opinions, showing up at anti-racism campaigns and writing at length about what they had seen and heard.

Without them you cant do anything. The press are the vehicle, to say out loud, You cannot abuse black players; you cannot abuse someone because of their color, Bright said.

To be sure, England is not perfect. Two cases this season cast a spotlight on racism: Egyptian forward Mido was taunted with Islamaphobic chants during Middlesbroughs match against Newcastle, and Tottenham fans insulted Portsmouth defender Sol Campbell, who is black, in September. Yet the incidents prompted outrage partly because they represented a relapse by English fans. Eleven Tottenham fans were criminally charged with indecent chantingfour pleaded guilty last month and received three-year stadium bans.

In Germany and Austria, clubs and fans have struck blows against racism. During Werder Bremens match in November at Bochum in the Ruhr, a small group of visiting fans unveiled a Third Reich flag, prompting other Bremen fans to chant Nazis out! Eight fans were detained and banned by Werder Bremen from attending home matches, and the club was examining whether a nationwide ban could be implemented.

As the most popular club in Austria, Rapid Vienna was a recruiting ground for the neo-Nazis in the 1980s and into the 90s, with a prominent far-right following numbering some 500 people. Black players were regularly abused.

Things are different now.

Several clubs introduced anti-racism measures ranging from awareness days, action days and ranging to a policy of equality when it comes to staff recruitment, said Kurt Wachter, a Vienna-based coordinator for Football Against Racism in Europe. The people who work in the stadium are relating to ethnic minorities in the community. You can see them and they feel accepted.

Wachter fears countries like Spain and Italy are lagging way behind.

That is a big challenge because a lot of football grounds are predominantly white in most parts of Europe, Wachter added. In Italy or Spain, some of them have not even come beyond the first step which is to accept there is a problem.

Associated Press Writers Andrew Dampf in Rome, Paul Logothetis in Madrid and Dheepthi Namasivayam in Paris contributed to this report.
Title: Re: Major Incidents of Racism in Football
Post by: acb on February 06, 2009, 06:11:20 PM
Spain's bid being hijacked, or is karma finally catching up with them?

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Aj2_uHNKGw5Th8Bp7kYQzDkmw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsocceriii&prov=ap&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Aj2_uHNKGw5Th8Bp7kYQzDkmw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsocceriii&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Quote
Racism troubles Madrids Olympic-World Cup bids
By Paul Logothetis, AP Sports Writer

MADRID (AP)Spain is a serious contender to host the 2016 Olympics and 2018 World Cup, but a failure to clamp down on fans racist and extremist behavior could end up compromising both bids.

Buoyed by Rafael Nadals Grand Slam tennis wins, the national soccer teams European Championship triumph and Alberto Contadors sweep of cyclings three premier events, Spain is in a golden age of sports.

It would seem the perfect time to land the two biggest sporting spectacles on earth.

But scenes of offensive fan behavior still tarnish the countrys image, an issue that came to the fore when spectators at the Santiago Bernabeu stadium greeted Englands black soccer players with monkey chants during an international exhibition game in 2004.

And the problem extends to sports such as Formula One, where fans dont known when to differentiate between competitive spirit and racism.

In Spain, there is a profound problem and the fight against racism hasnt been taken seriously. The problem is a lack of education and sensibility when it comes to tackling racism, Esteban Ibarra, head of the Movement Against Intolerance, told The Associated Press.

The public would react positively to a campaign, but there is a real lack of political push in this fight.

Spains exhibition game against England on Wednesdaythe teams first meeting since the events in the Spanish capital in November 2004comes at a crucial time.

Its a day before Madrid submits its documents to the International Olympic Committee outlining its bid plans for the 2016 Games, and a little over a week after Spain confirmed its joint bid with Portugal for the 2018 World Cup.

Its going to be a great test to see if weve overcome that episode or if were just continuing on with this problem, said Ibarra, who has been charting racial incidents for 20 years.

Monkey chants still rain down on players across the country, with Barcelona striker Samuel Etoo of Cameroon nearly quitting a game at Zaragoza in February 2006 because of the abuse.

When I first experienced it, I didnt even hear it. It was reporters that brought it to my attention, said Julian De Guzman, a Canadian of Filipino-Jamaican heritage who plays for Deportivo La Coruna. Then I was watching (a replay of) the game and I was like Wow. It was pretty surprising and kind of disappointing.

The fines are never enough. Their just a slap of the hand and theyre back at it again. It doesnt really do anything.

Last month, Real Madrid was fined 3,000 euros ($3,900) after some fans displayed fascist banners, made gestures and chanted slogans with reference to the death of their opponents and the gas chamber.

The Spanish soccer federation said fines correspond to current laws, but preferred not to discuss the issue at length.

In Spain, we take all preventive measures possible to fight racism, spokesman Jorge Carretero said. I dont see any type of problem with racism in Spanish football. The same problems exist in England, in Germany, in France, and elsewhere.

Spains bid with Portugal for the 2018 World Cup is up against competition from England, the United States, Russia, Japan, Australia and Netherlands-Belgium, among others. The host will be selected by FIFA in December 2010.

There is no place in football for corruption and racism, FIFA said in a statement sent to the AP. Football, given its global reach, power and influence has a duty to act in a responsible and progressive manner.

Spanish Olympic Committee president Alejandro Blanco doesnt believe recent events will bear any influence on Madrids chances of hosting the 2016 Games, with Tokyo, Chicago and Rio de Janeiro also in the race. The IOC will choose the host city on Oct. 2.

These things can happen in any stadium in any country in the world, from Brazil to Italy to anywhere, Blanco said. Its too easy to just say that Spain is a racist country, when it is not.

The Spanish government passed a law against racism in sport in July 2007 in a bid to clamp down on the behavior, but experts say that it is not being used. Clubs can be fined up to $842,000 and deducted points, places and even relegated for serious incidents, but its up to the league to enforce such punishments.

Yet extremist supporters, usually with far-right leanings and known as ultras, are still allowed into the stadiums. They have infiltrated all levels of Spanish soccerfrom local leagues to the topflight gameand have a fundamental influence in promoting xenophobia in society, Ibarra said.

I think football fans have a clearer idea that they must turn their backs on the ultras. There is a rejection, but the ultra groups continue to be aided, receiving favorable attention from the clubs. The clubs need to stop supporting these groups.

Last month, several players from a regional third-division team made up of Barcelona ultras were accused of assaulting members of an opposing team comprised solely of foreigners, mostly from South America, with several sent to the hospital with injuries.

In Europe, Britain and Germany have been leaders in expelling extremist groups from their grounds.

In Spain, only Barcelona has made an effort, while clubs like Madridvoted FIFAs top club of the 20th centuryhave publicly endorsed extremists.

Concerning the (ultras) I have nothing but good things to say, former Madrid president Ramon Calderon has said.

A construction and tourism boom in Spain over the past decade has fueled immigration and the sudden wave of foreigners has led to a rise in xenophobia, which has spread out from the cities to villages.

The Internet has allowed radical groups to form better bonds domestically and internationally, and there are now at least 150 Web sites in Spain to lend their voice.

Before 2000 you would walk down the street and be looking around and see no color, said Joan Lino, a Cuban long jumper who moved to Spain and won bronze for the country at the 2004 Athens Olympics.

Lino, is one of three Dominicans on the team involved in Everyone Olympians, which is sponsored by Madrids 2016 bid committee and aims to educate young people about the values of the Olympic spirit.

Integration has always been complicated, but the Spanish are not racist, Lino said. They just havent had much immigration until now, so its a matter of coping with change. If you dont have something, its usual to initially reject it. Racism is too strong a word for it.

Spains Socialist government promised to pass a more wide-ranging and general law related to racism in society after winning last years election, but has yet to act. Spains Interior Ministry does not keep any record of racist acts.

The Spanish medias close links to soccer clubs has also kept it from opening the debate.

Then-Spain coach Luis Aragones racist jibe in 2004 against France striker Thierry Henry to motivate one of his players was treated with humor, which set the tone for the abuse of England players in the ensuing match.

In August, Spains silver-medal winning Olympic basketball team was photographed in an ad using their fingers to apparently make their eyes look more Asians.

Last year, F1 champion Lewis Hamilton, the sports first black champion, was the target of racist abuse by a Spanish Web site nine months after a group of people wore dark face paint and T-shirts with the slogan Hamiltons Family at testing near Barcelona.

Hamilton continues to be a target for many Spaniards who believe the British driver derailed Fernando Alonsos championship hopes at McLaren.

De Guzman, the Deportivo La Coruna player, said he looks at the abuse as just a way for fans to try to knock a player off his game.

At the end of the day, he said, these guys making the monkey chants, they also have dark-skinned players on their side.
Title: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Andre on April 21, 2009, 11:06:37 AM
ROME, April 21 (Reuters) - UEFA wants matches to be halted if fans make racist chants, the European governing body’s president Michel Platini said on Tuesday.

Juventus were ordered to play their next home league game behind closed doors on Monday after fans racially abused Inter Milan striker Mario Balotelli in Saturday’s 1-1 Serie A draw.ADVERTISEMENT



“We will call for play to be stopped for 10 minutes when these things happen and announcements to be made in the stadium,” Platini told a news conference in Rome. “If it continues the match will be stopped. Courage is needed when there is racism in the stands. That’s UEFA’s mission.”

Racist abuse is not uncommon in Italian soccer and small fines are usually handed out. However, the seriousness of Saturday’s incidents prompted the authorities to come down heavily on Juve.

“It is a difficult moment for the Italian soccer federation. It has taken its responsibility,” added ex-Juve player Platini.

Italian federation president Giancarlo Abete, who hopes to bring Euro 2016 to the country, told reporters that rules would be changed to allow games to be stopped because of racist chanting.

“The Italian system already gives the authorities the power to suspend the game in the case of banners that incite racial discrimination,” he said.

“We’ll reinforce this, naturally while staying attentive and finding a balance for the security requirements of the public.”

JUVE APPEALING

The 18-year-old Balotelli scored Inter’s opener in the top-of-the-table clash and was subjected to chants of “a black Italian does not exist” from sections of the crowd in Turin.

Balotelli, an Italy under-21 international, was born in Palermo but is of Ghanaian descent.

Juve apologised but are appealing against the decision to ban fans from the home game with Lecce on May 3.

Inter Milan president Massimo Moratti said he would have pulled his team off if he had been at Turin’s Stadio Olimpico.

He has been criticised for his response by Italian media given that Inter were at the centre of a racism storm in 2005 when Messina player Marco Zoro was verbally abused by fans.

Platini was in Rome to hand the Champions League trophy to the city ahead of the final here on May 27. UEFA has stuck with its decision to host the final in Rome despite Italian soccer’s problems with racism and hooliganism.

The UEFA president said a number of children from the central Italian region of Abruzzo, hit by a large earthquake earlier this month, would be given free tickets to the final. (Writing by Mark Meadows in Milan;
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: kicker on April 21, 2009, 11:35:07 AM
Not much detail given but it seems like this could potentially allow fans of a losing team to stop a game, in order to break the momentum or even avoid the losing result just by striking up a racist chant.

I'm all for big measures to end racism in the stadia, but this one seems to give too much power to the perpetrators. 

At some point the governing bodies need to just concede that racism is not a football problem per se.  It's bigger than that, and as a result unfortunately spills into the games.  The way to address the issue is therefore alot more long-term and gradual.  As a global entity governing a culturally diverse game, if they really care about racism as a problem they probably need to invest heavily in educational diversity programs and tolerance initiatives that target changing the way the people think...in the hopes of long term improvements.  Merely attempting to keep racism out of the stadia with patch work initiatives like the one described here doesn't do much to address the underlying issue....................(of course keeping racism out of the games may be UEFA/FIFA's only intention- as opposed to addressing the problem of racism/disrespect.... I don't know.)

In the mean time football will have to endure the growing pains and possibly continue to apply stop gap measures that include heavier fines and bans as a stronger deterrant than what currently exists.

But giving the fans more power to negatively influence the enjoyability and even outcome of the game is not the way to go in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Savannah boy on April 21, 2009, 11:51:36 AM
a black Italian does not exist  Dey come back with dem shit.  Tell dem racist Italians to haul dey MC.

(http://www.missitalia.rai.it/leMiss/alboMissItalia1990_1999/mendez96_b.jpg)

(http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/56648219.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A6F9EAE2F9D1CC8AD7A245704FE6840619)

http://www.tpmum.com/denny.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_M%C3%A9ndez

"but she did not score well in the next interview round to become the top 3."  Dat is because she made a strong bold comment pointedly directed at de Italian people who didn't like her skin colour. 

Put dis in dey craw.

Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Andre on April 21, 2009, 12:37:54 PM
“a black Italian does not exist”

they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Blue on April 21, 2009, 01:13:25 PM
Not much detail given but it seems like this could potentially allow fans of a losing team to stop a game, in order to break the momentum or even avoid the losing result just by striking up a racist chant.

I'm all for big measures to end racism in the stadia, but this one seems to give too much power to the perpetrators. 

At some point the governing bodies need to just concede that racism is not a football problem per se.  It's bigger than that, and as a result unfortunately spills into the games.  The way to address the issue is therefore alot more long-term and gradual.  As a global entity governing a culturally diverse game, if they really care about racism as a problem they probably need to invest heavily in educational diversity programs and tolerance initiatives that target changing the way the people think...in the hopes of long term improvements.  Merely attempting to keep racism out of the stadia with patch work initiatives like the one described here doesn't do much to address the underlying issue....................(of course keeping racism out of the games may be UEFA/FIFA's only intention- as opposed to addressing the problem of racism/disrespect.... I don't know.)

In the mean time football will have to endure the growing pains and possibly continue to apply stop gap measures that include heavier fines and bans as a stronger deterrant than what currently exists.

But giving the fans more power to negatively influence the enjoyability and even outcome of the game is not the way to go in my opinion. 

Presumably the team whose fans cause the stoppage will lose by default. I think its a great idea. Let the referee and 4th official use their discretion, and send the video for review once the game done. Order the team responsible to reimburse any expenses to the other team. Watch how quickly clubs and non-racist fans act to stamp out the rogue elements.

I disagree that football cannot deal with racism separately from the society at large. Football does not need to eradicate racism...football needs to ensure that all players and fans are treated with respect. The latter should definitely be achievable. Just because someone has racist feelings does not mean that they cant keep their mouth shut and just watch the football for 90 minutes...leave the government to worry about solving the wider societal problems.

PS - that Miss Italy was bess  :beermug:
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: FF on April 21, 2009, 01:16:46 PM
let dem play ah man down everytime it occur...

crowd bong to behave
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Filho on April 21, 2009, 01:21:16 PM
a black Italian does not exist

they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?

well..funny you should say that. I remember reading something about Maradona's life and he recalled that when he first moved to Napoli he was shocked how badly people from the South were treated by people in the North. He had expected it, but he was amazed at how at one of his early games against some Northern team, some fans unfurled a huge banner saying 'Welcome to Italy'...

I've also played against some guys from Italy who were from Naples. I had gotten into a running argument with one of their players and one of the guys on their team tried to diffuse the situation saying something like - here we are different, but in Italy, we are just like you. I wasn't sure what he meant at the time, but an Argentine teammate of mine explained to me that he meant he was practically a 'black' man in Italy. Of course...they don't consider themselves black and I doubt they any more or less racist on average than the average northern italian...but they definitely feel marginalized
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Blue on April 21, 2009, 01:32:15 PM
a black Italian does not exist

they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?

well..funny you should say that. I remember reading something about Maradona's life and he recalled that when he first moved to Napoli he was shocked how badly people from the South were treated by people in the North. He had expected it, but he was amazed at how at one of his early games against some Northern team, some fans unfurled a huge banner saying 'Welcome to Italy'...

I've also played against some guys from Italy who were from Naples. I had gotten into a running argument with one of their players and one of the guys on their team tried to diffuse the situation saying something like - here we are different, but in Italy, we are just like you. I wasn't sure what he meant at the time, but an Argentine teammate of mine explained to me that he meant he was practically a 'black' man in Italy. Of course...they don't consider themselves black and I doubt they any more or less racist on average than the average northern italian...but they definitely feel marginalized

i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.

In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Andre on April 21, 2009, 01:41:13 PM
i thought the lowest rung in italian or any other european society was the roma or gypsies.

since they originate in india they really black.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7619703.stm

"Italy criticised

An Italian move to fingerprint Roma - already condemned by the European Parliament and human rights groups as discriminatory - came under fire again.

George Soros, founder of the Open Society Institute, said it was "a case of ethnic profiling which ought to be illegal," the Associated Press reported.

Italy's right-wing government introduced the fingerprinting measure, saying it would cut crime and push Roma children to attend school instead of begging.

An estimated 150,000 Roma live in Italy, mainly in squalid, makeshift camps on the outskirts of major cities."
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: acb on April 21, 2009, 01:41:58 PM
... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...

nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.

No wonder than all we southies consider ourselves mentally superior and better cultured as opposed to our unforunate northern counterparts.

Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Filho on April 21, 2009, 01:43:49 PM
a black Italian does not exist

they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?

well..funny you should say that. I remember reading something about Maradona's life and he recalled that when he first moved to Napoli he was shocked how badly people from the South were treated by people in the North. He had expected it, but he was amazed at how at one of his early games against some Northern team, some fans unfurled a huge banner saying 'Welcome to Italy'...

I've also played against some guys from Italy who were from Naples. I had gotten into a running argument with one of their players and one of the guys on their team tried to diffuse the situation saying something like - here we are different, but in Italy, we are just like you. I wasn't sure what he meant at the time, but an Argentine teammate of mine explained to me that he meant he was practically a 'black' man in Italy. Of course...they don't consider themselves black and I doubt they any more or less racist on average than the average northern italian...but they definitely feel marginalized

i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.

In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.

oh gosh. come on. that is completely understood. it is different kind of bigotry but make no mistake..it's nothing like North /South T&T sentiments, and yeah, they are sometimes called blacks and the bigotry does include references to southerners having darker skin and darker features. but i never meant to infer that they are considered the same as people of african descent. the part in bold..i included that to make the same point u making..it ain't the same.also why i used quotes when mentioning the word 'black'. just sharing a personal story that Andre reminded me of when he spoke about 'brown' sicilians.
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: WestCoast on April 21, 2009, 01:49:15 PM
... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...

nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.

No wonder than all we southies consider ourselves mentally superior and better cultured as opposed to our unforunate northern counterparts.
see wha ah talkin bout
here we go :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
in a few years from now who knows HOW intense this sentiment will be and what it will lead to ;)
 :rotfl: :beermug: :beermug:
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: acb on April 21, 2009, 01:53:38 PM
... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...

nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.

No wonder than all we southies consider ourselves mentally superior and better cultured as opposed to our unforunate northern counterparts.
see wha ah talkin bout
here we go :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
in a few years from now who knows HOW intense this sentiment will be and what it will lead to ;)
 :rotfl: :beermug: :beermug:

lol. We will keep the oil in the south.
Allyuh keep Movietown, Zen and 51.

let we see who will win.
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: WestCoast on April 21, 2009, 02:01:36 PM
ya sure allya doh want Zen :devil:
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: acb on April 21, 2009, 02:05:07 PM
we go arkse Johnny to open back up The Club before we take Zen.

Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Bakes on April 21, 2009, 02:15:39 PM
i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.

In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.

This is incorrect... it isn't 'racism' since they all belong to the same race, but make no mistake about it it is colorism borne from the fact that people from southern Italy (particularly the Sicilians) tend to be darker-skinned in comparison to those from the northern part of the boot.  This could be attributed to the meditteranean climate, but from a historical perspective one only needs to look at the proximity to Africa across the Mediterranean to realize that much as the Moors mixed with the people of the southern Iberian peninsula (Portugal and Spain), they likely also mixed with the Sicilians as well... in fact Sicilians are often thought of as Italy's (blacks)... not using the actual term.
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Blue on April 21, 2009, 02:17:44 PM
... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...

nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.

I do  ;D
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: Blue on April 21, 2009, 02:22:31 PM
i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.

In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.

This is incorrect... it isn't 'racism' since they all belong to the same race, but make no mistake about it it is colorism borne from the fact that people from southern Italy (particularly the Sicilians) tend to be darker-skinned in comparison to those from the northern part of the boot.  This could be attributed to the meditteranean climate, but from a historical perspective one only needs to look at the proximity to Africa across the Mediterranean to realize that much as the Moors mixed with the people of the southern Iberian peninsula (Portugal and Spain), they likely also mixed with the Sicilians as well... in fact Sicilians are often thought of as Italy's (blacks)... not using the actual term.

Its not incorrect...they are discriminated against primarily because they are considered to be poor and crass...skin colour is less of a factor (no need for a historical lesson on why southern italians are more tanned than northern italians). In Britain, Scots are "discriminated" against because they are paler and have ginger hair. It might not be PC, but it isnt anywhere near as offensive as real racism.
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: WestCoast on April 21, 2009, 02:25:35 PM
In Britain, Scots are "discriminated" against because they are paler and have ginger hair. It might not be PC, but it isnt anywhere near as offensive as real racism.
dais because de Scots TOO damn CHEAP Thrifty  :devil:
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: ribbit on April 21, 2009, 02:29:31 PM
ah waiting for ahmadinejad to throw he 2 cents.
Title: Re: Games should be halted amid racist chants - UEFA
Post by: kicker on April 21, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
ah waiting for ahmadinejad to throw he 2 cents.

Ain't no talk of jews in this thread... so he probably won't be concerned
Title: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Zeppo on April 27, 2009, 04:57:21 AM
Black marks for Clarence Seedorf and Jose Mourinho in fight to end racism

Viewed from afar, its all so simple. Nine days ago, when Juventus hosted Inter Milan, a sizeable portion of the home crowd audible to any television viewer began abusing Mario Balotelli, the visiting teams striker, calling him a s****y n****r. Given that Balotelli is black, it was a clear case of racist abuse, correct?

So why did Clarence Seedorf, one of Serie As most high-profile black footballers, and Jos Mourinho, Balotellis coach, reject that it was racist? Welcome to a story about black and white that seems filled with shades of grey.

(continue) (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/gabriele_marcotti/article6175825.ece)
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: sammy on April 27, 2009, 06:11:47 AM
hmm interesting



"Absurd? Maybe, but not to Seedorf. You have to stop calling this racism, because it isnt racist, he said. Its the same kind of abuse that other, nonblack players get when fans sing about their mothers. The fact is that certain players stand out because of their behaviour on the pitch. Balotelli needs to understand that if he continues to behave this way he will continue to elicit similar reactions everywhere he goes.

Mourinhos reaction also raised eyebrows, not least because many expect the Special One always to defend his players and get any edge he can. The abuse was childish and ignorant but it wasnt racist, he said. Its not as if they were abusing him because Balotelli is of African descent. They were abusing him because hes an opponent, and a very talented one at that, one whose skill had just led to a Juve player getting sent off.

Neither Seedorfs nor Mourinhos words will help in the battle to eradicate racist abuse. But they are right in making a distinction between racism and racist abuse. You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Swima on April 27, 2009, 06:21:41 AM


You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]

Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: weary1969 on April 27, 2009, 06:39:11 AM


You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]

Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.

Cosign
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: asylumseeker on April 27, 2009, 10:06:59 AM
From the comments section following the article:

Quote
Seedorf and Mourinho, have a limited understanding of racism!!!
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: pardners on April 27, 2009, 10:14:38 AM
I wonder if Mourinho woulda have the same sentiments if he was black and the victim of such abuse ?
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: mwanasoka on April 27, 2009, 10:50:59 AM
 Pigment of we imagination?   :thinking:
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: kicker on April 27, 2009, 11:20:18 AM


You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]

Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.

The second piece is just noise.  It's a tactic meant to cloud the point.  Reminds me of common tactic referred to as rationalization after the fact but I don't want to digress- Point is- other manifestations of racism are irrelevant to the one under scrutiny....

...and while it is possible to be a non-racist and call someone the N-word....out of anger, spite, or as a fear/distraction tactic whilst not actually harbouring any racial prejudice against the person, the fact remains that calling someone the N-word is a racist act regardless of whether or not the perpetrator is in fact a racist person.  And that is where the confusion in the whole Balotelli debate lies...because no one wants to look at themselves and admit to being racist, so as soon as the label is drawn, people are quick to rationalize their act and explain the ulterior motive for their behavior in order abscond themselves from the label.....

but the thing is, in this case the label is not important..... with regard to Balotelli the concern isn't (or shouldn't be) identifying racist people in the stadium...but rather perpetrators of racist acts.....and in this case the way the message was communicated, displayed and perhaps ultimately received by the intended target significantly outweighs the "stated" intention behind it...

If the Ultras were really not racist, and they figure that their message may have been "misunderstood" they should just apologize....

Mourinho is trying to be a diplomat, and Seedorf is a politician... or vice versa  ;D
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: pardners on April 27, 2009, 11:41:20 AM


You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]

Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.

The second piece is just noise.  It's a tactic meant to cloud the point.  Reminds me of common tactic referred to as rationalization after the fact but I don't want to digress- Point is- other manifestations of racism are irrelevant to the one under scrutiny....

...and while it is possible to be a non-racist and call someone the N-word....out of anger, spite, or as a fear/distraction tactic whilst not actually harbouring any racial prejudice against the person, the fact remains that calling someone the N-word is a racist act regardless of whether or not the perpetrator is in fact a racist person.  And that is where the confusion in the whole Balotelli debate lies...because no one wants to look at themselves and admit to being racist, so as soon as the label is drawn, people are quick to rationalize their act and explain the ulterior motive for their behavior in order abscond themselves from the label.....

but the thing is, in this case the label is not important..... with regard to Balotelli the concern isn't (or shouldn't be) identifying racist people in the stadium...but rather perpetrators of racist acts.....and in this case the way the message was communicated, displayed and perhaps ultimately received by the intended target significantly outweighs the "stated" intention behind it...

If the Ultras were really not racist, and they figure that their message may have been "misunderstood" they should just apologize....

Mourinho is trying to be a diplomat, and Seedorf is a politician.

 :applause:
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Socafan on April 27, 2009, 12:52:05 PM


You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]

Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.

The second piece is just noise.  It's a tactic meant to cloud the point.  Reminds me of common tactic referred to as rationalization after the fact but I don't want to digress- Point is- other manifestations of racism are irrelevant to the one under scrutiny....

...and while it is possible to be a non-racist and call someone the N-word....out of anger, spite, or as a fear/distraction tactic whilst not actually harbouring any racial prejudice against the person, the fact remains that calling someone the N-word is a racist act regardless of whether or not the perpetrator is in fact a racist person.  And that is where the confusion in the whole Balotelli debate lies...because no one wants to look at themselves and admit to being racist, so as soon as the label is drawn, people are quick to rationalize their act and explain the ulterior motive for their behavior in order abscond themselves from the label.....

but the thing is, in this case the label is not important..... with regard to Balotelli the concern isn't (or shouldn't be) identifying racist people in the stadium...but rather perpetrators of racist acts.....and in this case the way the message was communicated, displayed and perhaps ultimately received by the intended target significantly outweighs the "stated" intention behind it...

If the Ultras were really not racist, and they figure that their message may have been "misunderstood" they should just apologize....

Mourinho is trying to be a diplomat, and Seedorf is a politician... or vice versa  ;D

Excellently put Kicker...however, I'll venture to say that calling anyone of any race by a derogatory term in any way other than that both parties understand that it is being done in jest is both racist and a racist act.

Emotion tends to reveal the true nature of a man and his thoughts. Thats just how it is.
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Bakes on April 27, 2009, 01:27:46 PM
Quote
But they are right in making a distinction between racism and racist abuse. You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race.

Lol@ this^^ bullshit.


I won't even bother dignify it with analysis.
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: weary1969 on April 27, 2009, 02:05:34 PM
Ok u can cuss a black man bout he modder but call him a monkey a crime has been committed. In both cases not acceptable behavior. D fact dat black peeps call black peeps d n word show how their lack of history. No way d n word is a term of luv and respect no matter who say it.
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Fyzoman on April 27, 2009, 02:57:58 PM
Ok u can cuss a black man bout he modder but call him a monkey a crime has been committed. In both cases not acceptable behavior. D fact dat black peeps call black peeps d n word show how their lack of history. No way d n word is a term of luv and respect no matter who say it.

dais is whole nother issue yuh raise dey weary....but as ah man living foreign for ah 'minute', i realize dat even blacks who 'know' their history does still use it too.....me? in my lil reality, i find it have to much other thing to worry bout in this life than to worry bout if a black man/woman choose to call each other the 'n' word.
now if somebody else use it (and me eh talking bout de wiggers and wannabes) then is bacahnal ;)

unless something was lost in translation clarence and jose is (are) two big imps!
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: freakazoid on April 27, 2009, 04:03:37 PM
seedorf and mourinho yes yes lets down play this, no no lets equate it to talking about a player's mom. yeah yeah. give racism a red card? NO lets give the other guy a yellow for simulation.
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: weary1969 on April 27, 2009, 04:22:20 PM
seedorf and mourinho yes yes lets down play this, no no lets equate it to talking about a player's mom. yeah yeah. give racism a red card? NO lets give the other guy a yellow for simulation.

Something wrong cyah b square. Some peeps eh care bout bein called a monkey but if u cuss dey mudder dey might just pull a Zidane. 
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Jah Gol on April 27, 2009, 04:56:18 PM
The fact is that certain players stand out because of their behaviour on the pitch. Balotelli needs to understand that if he continues to behave this way he will continue to elicit similar reactions everywhere he goes.


What did Balotelli do wrong here ? If anything he should have put it through his legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/fxJIl9F1Po4

Because he embarrass a defender .Steups . All that is football. That is the reason why I started watching football in the first place. It might be a different culture but you can't tell me a player showing skill is an insult to the fans. Tiago look bad and get send off to boot. Fans get vex and start calling the youth shitty nigger and that is not racist ? Steups .Seedorf loss points in my book.   

Double click on the video and see how racist some of  the comments are.
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Touches on April 27, 2009, 06:25:22 PM
The fact is that certain players stand out because of their behaviour on the pitch. Balotelli needs to understand that if he continues to behave this way he will continue to elicit similar reactions everywhere he goes.


What did Balotelli do wrong here ? If anything he should have put it through his legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/fxJIl9F1Po4

Because he embarrass a defender .Steups . All that is football. That is the reason why I started watching football in the first place. It might be a different culture but you can't tell me a player showing skill is an insult to the fans. Tiago look bad and get send off to boot. Fans get vex and start calling the youth shitty nigger and that is not racist ? Steups .Seedorf loss points in my book.   

Double click on the video and see how racist some of  the comments are.

Jah Gol For your edification...Pt 1 (http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=26037.0) Pt 2 (http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=33950.0)

As for this race article, I just read the article with amazement...you can't escape racism, it is part of life.
Title: Re: Black marks for Seedorf and Mourinho in fight to end racism
Post by: Bourbon on April 27, 2009, 07:09:08 PM
Touches post de same ting i was thinking bout. And...as a man who was on both sides of de divide seve