Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Tallman on April 01, 2005, 08:34:05 AM
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Player protest halts Ron Atkinson's appointment
By Lasana Liburd (Trinidad Express)
Ghanian-born ex-France international football captain, Marcel Desailly, has won the World Cup (1998), two Confederation Cups (2001, 2003), the European Championship (2000), two European Champions League titles (1993, 1994), two European Super Cups (1994, 1998), two Italian Serie A titles (1994, 1996) and one FA Cup (2000) over a glittering career at Marseille, AC Milan and Chelsea.
He is also "a f**king, lazy, thick nigger" according to "Big" Ron Atkinson, a former Manchester United and Aston Villa manager, disgraced English television commentator and, very nearly, the new Trinidad and Tobago national coach.
Atkinson was set to replace Bertille St Clair as T&T coach yesterday only for the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) to make a hasty about-turn after the national players allegedly threatened to revolt.
The England-based duo of team leader Dwight Yorke and ex-captain Shaka Hislop were alleged to be particularly defiant and mortified.
Yorke played for Atkinson in the early 1990s at Villa where the manager once ordered his teammate, Ugo Ehiogu, to punch and kick him during a session to toughen him up. Yorke, who was racially abused by two supporters at a Premiership match at Blackburn last year, allegedly refused to play under Atkinson.
Hislop, who is a co-founder and Hall of Fame member of the British anti-racism organisation, Show Racism The Red Card (SRTRC), also objected strenuously, according to a source who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Jack Warner, the T&TFF special advisor and FIFA vice-president, presided over the meeting and accepted the judgment of the players, although the T&TFF initially promised to unveil Atkinson as coach at 2 p.m. yesterday.
The T&TFF has often been accused of incompetence, dishonesty and dictatorial tendencies. Some might argue that gross insensitivity and stupidity be added to the list.
Last April, Atkinson resigned his £200,000-a-year job as commentator for top English television station, ITV, after calling Desailly "a f**king lazy thick nigger" following a Champions League match involving Chelsea and Monaco. ITV had stopped broadcasting to Britain and Atkinson was unaware that the microphone was still on. His racist jibe was aired live in the Middle East.
It was not the first time that Atkinson was guilty of racial insensitivity-at best-nor was it the last.
At the 1990 World Cup in Italy, Atkinson suggested that a Cameroon player had no brain but was quickly made to retract his statement on air. He had the final word during the halftime interval when he joked to his co-commentator that "I'll only get into trouble if his mother's back home watching the game sitting up a tree". His comments were again relayed in some countries because of a live microphone.
Remarkably, Atkinson put himself in more hot water, two months ago, with some disparaging remarks about Chinese women in a fund-raiser at Sheffield Wednesday. This time, he told an audience of more than 250 people that "the Chinese people have the best contraception in the world-but I can't understand why there's so many of them because their women are so ugly".
Chinese national striker Hao Haidong retorted that Atkinson "should be beaten black and blue and made to thoroughly shut up", while Manchester City defender Sun Jihai accused him of ignorance and racism.
Atkinson, as in each incident, thought too much was made of nothing.
"I cannot believe anyone has complained about anything I said," he told the Sheffield Star. "I went there to help them out and to raise money. I stayed for ages and did photographs. I can't believe this...I just can't believe this.
"I can't say anything now. I've been ultra-careful about everything."
Warner was allegedly ready to give Atkinson a chance of redemption-or a public relations ploy-by allowing him to take charge of the Trinidad and Tobago squad.
Atkinson is rumoured to have topped a shortlist that included former Holland, Ajax and Real Madrid coach Leo Beenhakker and Newcastle, England and Manchester City manager Kevin Keegan.
Warner could not be reached to confirm his selection of Atkinson, or to explain the reason for his choice.
Still, Atkinson is not without his own supporters.
He is considered to be a hero to the black community, in some circles, for his work at West Brom who he coached from 1978 to 1981 and famously selected three black players-Brendon Batson, Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham-when most clubs did not field even one.
Carlton Palmer, one of a handful of black players to win England caps in the 1980s or early 1990s, said he considered Atkinson to be a friend and insisted he was not racist, while Jamaican-born former Liverpool star John Barnes said he preferred to judge Atkinson by his "actions".
The Trinidad and Tobago football team disagreed.
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Good Move
Let him go and coach a white nation,
Black people around the world need to boycott his ass from now till forever.
No football game is worth Human pride
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I am totally amazed that Warner and Co. would choose Ron over the other 2. Haven't they heard these widely publicized stories before? They really must be clueless yes.
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Let's not be too surprised by any moves or decisions from Mr, Warner. Just recall one of the early lyrics from the past:
"Is money they love, money they crave, money go lead dem tuh the grave but not me ,
They eh getting my dollars"
He bumpming , he moving he saga thing.......lalalallala"
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ttff dodged a bullet for sure. why would they consider him over the other two?i dont know.thank god its leo we've got
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We all know who Ron is because he was always willing to run his mouth like the idiot that he is. But please let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the others do not share the same sentiments. Racism is a basic tenant of the institutions that they were trained in.
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Make Racism Illegal - Perfect Solution?
Argentine Player Remains Jailed for Alleged Racist Slurs
Desabato Could Face Three-Year Prison Term if Found Guilty
By TALES AZZONI, AP Sports
SAO PAULO, Brazil (April 14) - Quilmes defender Leandro Desabato cannot leave Brazil before his trial for using racial slurs against a Brazilian player during a Copa Libertadores match, a judge ruled on Friday.
Reuters
Leandro Desabato walks into a Sao Paulo police station after being arrested on racism charges.
Judge Marcos Zili set bail at $4,000 and ordered the Argentine defender not to leave the country until his case comes to court.
Desabato, who was awaiting release from jail on Thursday night, could face a three-year prison term if he is found guilty of insulting Sao Paulo striker Grafite during Sao Paulo's 3-1 victory on Wednesday.
Grafite - who is black - made a formal complaint and said he would not withdraw it.
"It's nothing personal, but it's my right as a citizen," the striker said on Thursday. "He called me 'blacky' and 'monkey.' Maybe this will make a difference to blacks, not only in Brazil, but around the world."
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National team coach Carlos Alberto Parreira said the remarks had no place in soccer, where some of the top players - like Brazilian great Pele - were black.
"In a globalized world, an attitude like this is incomprehensible, especially in sports," he said. "Soul has no color. Every expression of racism must be condemned."
The Argentine was escorted off the field by police after the match, and arrested later because the insults were caught by television cameras.
"It should've been handled differently," Quilmes coach Gustavo Alfaro said. "They shouldn't have done that in the middle of the field, in front of everybody."
"Racist insults happen all the time in soccer and nobody ever did anything about it," Sao Paulo coach Emerson Leao said. "It's important someone finally took an action to contain such remarks."
Several Brazilian players - including stars Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos - have been subjected to racist insults in Europe in recent months.
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"This should be seen as an example for the entire world," Sao Paulo president Marcelo Portugal Gouvea told Radio Jovem Pan. "This kind of attitude should not be tolerated anywhere."
Lawyers for Quilmes tried to get Desabato released.
"(Desabato) gave contradictory statements, but apparently he thought it wasn't a crime to say what he said," police officer Dejar Gomes Neto said.
The Quilmes team, which had been scheduled to return to Argentina on Thursday morning, remained in Brazil waiting for Desabato.
"They can't come to Brazil and go unpunished after acts like that," police agent Oswaldo Nico Goncalves said.
Norberto Vidal, Argentina's consul in Sao Paulo, said he expected Desabato to be released soon.
"The laws here are severe when it comes to racism, but there's no reason he needs to remain in jail. We are working to solve this problem," Vidal said.
On Wednesday, Desabato and Grafite got into an altercation in the 44th minute after a heated dispute.
Grafite ended up pushing Desabato and was ejected by Uruguayan referee Martin Vazquez. Quilmes midfielder Carlos Arano was also sent off because he got involved in the altercation.
Grafite had previously said that he was subjected to racism during Sao Paulo's first encounter with Quilmes in Argentina last month, prompting Quilmes' directors to send a letter of apology to Sao Paulo.
04/14/05 19:14 EDT
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
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Yorke to deliver message against Racism at Panama match.
By: Shaun Fuentes.
Trinidad and Tobago skipper Dwight Yorke will deliver a short message on behalf of this country before kick off in next Saturday’s 2006 World Cup qualifier against Panama following FIFA’s request for the teams to make a public declaration against racism in football.
Yorke is expected back in Trinidad on Sunday to rejoin the team for the live-in camp from Monday straight up until Saturday’s encounter.
The decision by FIFA is part of their initiative to stamp racism out of the sport and a banner reading “Say no to Racism” will be on display at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on the evening. Fans are being urged to come out in their numbers, not only to support the “Warriors” in the vital affair but also to join the fight against racism. Currently the Thierry Henry endorsed black and white anti-racism wristbands are popular while members of the National Team are sporting the red ‘Soca Warrior’ wristbands which fans are being urged to wear as a means of supporting the team and also being a ‘Warrior’ against crime, violence and even racism in T&T. These bands can be purchased at Sports & Games, Sports Master and Sports Outlet shops.
T&T will also take part in the Unity Cup in London next month which is also geared towards breaking racial barriers. Nigeria, Ghana and Jamaica will also take part in the action which takes place at Upton Park from June 11.
Yorke among several other world renowned footballers have been subjected to racist remarks against them with his latest occurrence being the abuse from Blackburn Rovers fans in November 2004.
English-based goalkeeper Shaka Hislop recently received a special award from the Professional Footballers Association for his part in the fight against racism over the years. He was a founder of the “Show Racism the Red Card” campaign since his days at Newcastle United.
“Indeed it was an honour to get the award for the efforts that have gone on in the fight against racism. The fact is that it is a problem not just in football but on outside as well and we all have a part to play in getting rid of it especially the fans and it’s great when they can identify with the fight at matches and other events,” Hislop told TTFF Media.
Last October a father and son were convicted after racially abusing Hislop during Pompey's 2-0 win over Manchester United.
He was not aware of the abuse until after it had happened. “There have been some high-profile incidents, like the abuse the England players received in Madrid earlier this year and Dwight Yorke's incident up at Blackburn," he said.
"When I was targeted I was fantastically proud of the way it was dealt with. It was fans who reported it, and the club were very hard in their stance against it. That sends out the right message. But the fact is there is still racism in the game, and all the time there is, the campaign must carry on."
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by Guest Column
Posted on 15 April 2005
By Brian Homewood (Reuters)
A major victory in the fight to wipe racism out of soccer or just another twist in the long-standing rivalry between Brazil and Argentina?
Brazil claims it has set a worldwide example in the battle against discrimination by arresting Argentine defender Leandro Desabato for allegedly using racist terms to insult an opponent in the Libertadores Cup match between Sao Paulo and Quilmes.
Officials of the visiting Buenos Aires team said they were victims of a farce and claimed the Brazilians had over-reacted.
Desabato was arrested on the pitch after Wednesday's 3-1 defeat, accused of slander aggravated by racism, and was kept in custody while lawyers hired by the Argentine club applied for bail.
Desabato was granted bail by a judge on Thursday but spent a second night in a police cell because his representatives did not have time to pay the 10 000 real ($3 861) surety.
"The racist attitude of the Argentine player goes against all the values of equality, respect and unity which sport promotes," said the Brazilian Sports Ministry in a statement.
"This is an example for the rest of the world," said Marco Polo del Nero, president of the Paulista (Sao Paulo state) Football Federation.
LAWS BROKEN
Brazilian police say Desabato broke the laws of the land by racially insulting his opponent.
Critics, however, point out that the law is broken week-in, week-out on pitches all around the country where scything double-footed tackles from behind, vicious elbowing and punch-ups are common as well as all kinds of verbal insults.
Despite the on-field violence, there have been no major cases in Brazil of players being arrested for an incident during a match.
Some punch-ups, including one involving Santos and Corinthians players in 2003, have ended up in a police station but the protagonists are usually released after questioning.
In other parts of the world, authorities have also preferred to leave incidents during matches to the football tribunals, even in cases that would be considered criminal if they happened on the street.
A rare exception occurred in 1995 in Britain when Scotland and Everton striker Duncan Ferguson was jailed for head-butting an opponent.
Quilmes coach Gustavo Alfaro said Desabato had been arrested on the flimsiest of evidence.
"A football match should start and finish on the pitch," he said. "The witnesses are two television viewers who said they read his (Desabato's) lips."
Quilmes vice-president Jose Luis Meizner said: "This is not a coincidence, it seems that in Brazil there's a competition with Europe to see which country is leading the fight against racism."
CONTAMINATED WATER
In the end, the episode could go down as another incident in the long history of football rivalry between the two countries.
Only three months ago, an old controversy resurfaced about the possibility that Argentina players might have offered contaminated water to a Brazilian player during a match at the 1990 World Cup.
Argentines still remember Tulio's notorious Hand of God goal in the 1995 Copa America tie, which Brazil went on to win on penalties.
Sao Paulo coach Emerson Leao has never forgotten that he was injured during a huge brawl as coach of Atletico Mineiro after they beat Lanus 4-1 in Buenos Aires in the final of the 1997 Copa Conmebol.
He mentioned it again as he commented on the case after Wednesday's match, backing the decision to prosecute the Quilmes player.
"They have to take this to the bitter end," he said. "Let it be an example."
Brazil travel to Argentina for a World Cup qualifier in June while clubs from the two countries are likely to meet in the knockout stages of the Libertadores Cup between now and July.
Another round of controversy is unlikely to be far away.
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Racial Discrimination in Argentina
Vernellia R. Randall
Professor of Law and
Web Editor
Human Rights Documentation Center
http://www.hrdc.net/
Executive Summary, Racial Discrimination: The Record of Argentina , Human Rights Documentation Center (September 2001)
WHILE Argentina has considered itself a crisol de razas or melting pot, it has only recently begun to recognize itself as a multicultural, multiracial society. The government of Argentina has taken significant formal steps toward the elimination of racial discrimination over the last decade. However, the measures provided by legal and institutional changes are still in the initial stages of implementation and have been substantially hindered by a lack of funds, the logistical and political complications associated with the transfer of power from one party to another in 1999, and Argentina's history of racism.
Most sources report Argentina's population as 97 per cent white (mostly of Spanish and Italian descent) and three percent mestizo (Amerindian' and European), Amerindian, or other nonwhite groups. One of the difficulties in assessing and addressing persistent forms of racial discrimination in Argentina is the lack of adequate information about the population, particularly the indigenous and immigrant communities. The national census scheduled for 2000 was postponed due to lack of funds. Historically, national census data has been collected using the category of national origin rather than race in Argentina, leading to undercounting Afro-Argentines and mestizos.
The official figures may overestimate the white population, but they certainly reflect the normative perception that the country is predominantly white. The nineteenth century founders of the nation aimed to make Argentina a white nation through various policies aimed at eliminating ethnic minority populations, while simultaneously encouraging European immigration. The 1853 Constitution is still largely in force today, and the preference for European immigration remains explicit. Racial discrimination persists against indigenous peoples, immigrants, Afro-Argentines, mestizo Argentines, Jews and Arabs.
Argentina's indigenous peoples face struggles concerning fundamental issues of survival, maintenance of cultural and linguistic integrity, land rights and bilingual education. Furthermore, the small, impoverished, socially maligned population must fight for mere recognition. Recent estimates of the indigenous population in Argentina vary widely from 450,000 to 1.5 million, approximately one to four per cent of the total Argentine population of approximately 36 million. These differing figures expose the lack of adequate census data on indigenous peoples, and make it difficult to gauge their civic and political participation. The last census of indigenous peoples was taken between 1965 and 1968.
Despite the constitutional recognition of indigenous people and formal protection of their rights to bilingual education, ownership of their ancestral lands, and guaranteed participation in resource management and development, in practice, indigenous peoples seldom participate in the management of their natural resources. In addition, indigenous peoples face social marginalization; for example, idiomatic slang like "hablo como un indio ' ('I'm speaking like an Indian") used when one does something considered stupid, enforces deprecatory views of indigenous peoples.
Immigration from other South American nations rose in the second half of the 2011 century. Korean immigrants also began to arrive in significant numbers in the 1970s (totaling approximately 30,000 by 1998). The delayed 2000 census and the large number of undocumented immigrants makes an accurate assessment of recent immigration difficult, but the 1991 census counted close to five per cent of the total population as foreign born. Undocumented immigrants are estimated at 50,000 to 2,500,000. While statistics are not available regarding the racial identity of the Latin American immigrants, given the primary source countries, it can be reasonably assumed that the majority of immigrants are mestizo or indigenous.
The widespread perception that Argentina is essentially white has meant that, as immigration from South America increases, Argentines of mestizo, indigenous and African ancestry are perceived as foreign, whether or not they are immigrants. Immigrants are disproportionately detained by the police, as the Minister of Justice admitted, but the government denies xenophobia. The public also perpetrates racial discrimination; for example, in admission to nightclubs in Buenos Aires, discrimination against Latin American immigrants and those who appear to be mestizo has been well documented.
Politicians have used rising crime rates in the metropolitan Buenos Aires area to fuel xenophobia and to argue for further restrictions on immigrants. They blame immigrants for the rise in crime, despite the government's own statistics demonstrating that immigrants were not responsible for the majority of crimes. News reports on the proposed legislation referred to foreign workers as an "invasion' and also blamed them for lower wages and high unemployment.
Discrimination against Korean immigrants significantly worsened after a series of news reports in 1993 on a case of Korean grocers exploiting undocumented Bolivian immigrant workers and stealing electricity from the State appeared in the press. A previous popular image of Koreans as industrious changed to an image of Koreans as poorly integrated, exclusive, and not willing to learn Spanish. Their presence in good schools and neighbourhoods has been described as an invasion.
The Jewish population in Argentina is estimated at two per cent. The most recent manifestations of Argentina's history of anti-Semitism include the terrorist bombings of the Israeli embassy (1992) and the Argentine Jewish Mutual Aid Association (1994), the desecration of Jewish cemeteries and the prevalence of swastikas among the graffiti on buildings (including government buildings) in Buenos Aires. Anti- Semitic attitudes are widespread among the populace, and many do not consider Jewish people to be truly Argentine. Anti-Semitism within security forces also remains a significant problem. For example, until popular agitation forced a change in 2000, a police manual contained racist and anti-Semitic expressions.
According to the Arab-Argentine chamber of commerce, there are Currently over 3.5 million Arab descendants in Argentina, notably including former President Carlos Menem. While his Syrian ancestry did not prevent him from being elected -- an important indicator of the lack of discrimination -- he was required to convert to Catholicism when he ran in 1989 (this prerequisite has since been abolished), and informal criticisms of him during his tenure were sometimes radicalized.
Violence and discrimination against women are ongoing problems in Argentina despite efforts in recent years to reduce these abuses. Indices of poverty and unemployment, especially in the context of the recent economic crisis, are of significant concern. Underemployment is 23.8 per cent for women while underemployment for men is 11.3 per cent; unemployment is 14.2 per cent for women and 11.4 per cent for men. Indigenous women and women belonging to other minority ethnic groups continue to suffer in particular from discrimination in employment. International trafficking in women involves luring immigrant women with lucrative and deceptive job offers, and forcing them into the Argentine sex trade.
In recent years, the Argentine government has made significant formal advances towards the elimination of discrimination and racism. The majority of these formal steps were undertaken by the administration of President Carlos Menem (1989-1999). However, the Menem administration was sharply criticized by human rights organizations, opposition political parties and the Catholic Church for xenophobia and antipathy to human rights agendas. The democratic transfer of power to the Alianza coalition party under the leadership of President Fernando de la Rua in December 1999 has furthered the anti-discrimination agenda of the government, but it has also delayed the implementation of relevant policies due to the change in leadership.
On 24 August 1994, the Argentine Constitution was amended in several ways that are relevant to the elimination of racial discrimination. In correspondence with international human rights instruments, new amendments prohibit discrimination, provide equal civil rights to nationals and foreigners, and recognize indigenous communities as previously-extant legal entities entitled to participation in relevant development issues. Under the auspices of the Instituto Nacional de Asuntos Indigenas (National Institute of Indigenous Affairs, INAT), various programmes have been established for furthering land re-distribution, bilingual education, health programmes, and rural economic development. Other articles allow for equal access to education, with protections for cultural identities and diversity, and give international human rights treaties, including the Convention on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, equal standing with the Constitution.
In addition to these constitutional amendments, various laws have been passed and decrees issued in recent years with the aim of eliminating racial and other forms of discrimination, documenting the occurrence of discrimination, and enabling victims to seek redress. These include laws criminalizing discriminatory acts or omissions based on race, ratifying International Labour Organization Convention No. 169 concerning the rights Indigenous and Tribal Peoples in Independent Countries, and establishing the National Institute to Combat Discrimination, Xenophobia, and Racism (Instituto Nacional contra la Discriminacion, Xenophobia y Racismo, INADI).
INADI was established by law in 1995 with the objective of elaborating national policies and concrete measures to combat discrimination, xenophobia and racism, and with the mandate of initiating and fulfilling actions to this end. INADI has held anti-discrimination training sessions for schoolteachers and law enforcement officials, and has launched public education campaigns. It also has established a mechanism to receive complaints and take action thereon in the courts. However, with difficult economic situations, anti- discrimination, government agencies like INADI and INAI suffer increased budget constraints. INADI faces difficulty in covering the entire national territory, and does not have funding to track statistics on racial discrimination and on its responses to the complaints it receives.
The Argentine government's recent measures against racial discrimination are commendable, but they are only a step on the way. Discrimination persists against immigrants, indigenous populations, and other racial minorities, and the government must increase funding to anti-discrimination agencies, collect census data, and launch public education programs to insure that legal measures translate into genuine relief for Argentina's maligned populations.
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ARGENTINEAN SOCCER & RACE
http://www.trincoll.edu/~ldunaway/argentinean_soccer.htm
Soccer in Argentina, is an important way of life, for most young people, it is the only way of life. Children would clear pastures (fields) of rocks, and mark the goals off with stones. The people were so poor that there was no ball, they used women's stockings all wrapped up together. From a very young age the children were taught to play for the love of the game, nothing else. For these young children, Argentine soccer was a way of life, not just a sport, it defined who these people were.
More than 85% of the people that live in Argentina are of white European decent. 15% are a mix between European and Indigenous people, better know as 'Mestizos.' During the colonial period Argentina consisted of a large black population, but as the 19th century came about the population dwindled to a few thousand. The reason for this decline in the black population was due to many things: There were many wars which mostly blacks participated in, racially missed marriages took place, because there was a shortage of black men, disease and also the slave trade. "Overall, however, the substantially reduced numbers of Afro-Argentines — by some accounts the population totals only a few thousand — have enabled Argentina to deny the historic relevance of blacks and portray theirs as a white nation free of racism. An article appearing in The Montreal Gazette in 1998 quotes a Buenos Aires museum director's response to the possibility of an Afro-Argentine exhibit: "We have too many important events and personalities to show. We can't waste space putting things that don't have any relevance to our history." The country's self-image coexists with continued manifestations of racism. The same article explains that when the Argentine soccer team was to play either the Brazilian or Nigerian team in the Olympic finals, a sports newspaper ran the headline, "Bring on the Monkeys," eliciting protests from the governments of both potential opponents. As of the late 1990s efforts by scholars like Andrews, Goldberg, Chace, and others seek to confront such persistent racism and ensure that the historic significance of Afro-Argentines is not forgotten."(Roanne Edwards)
Soccer is one of the largest sports in the world, and grosses $250 billion dollars a year. The organization know as FIFA, promotes the "shared common values that transcend culture, social division and racial differences." (Rob Hughes) The world would be a better place, if it were more like a soccer field, Joseph Blatter (the president of FIFA) states. Racism has slowly made it's way into the soccer scene, throughout the years and is the greatest threat to the sport. There are many ideas to combat the threat of racism: "if, as soccer claims, it generates $250 billion annually around the world, the bulk of it in Europe where racism festers, one suggestion to disinfect the sport from nihilism could be a soccer intelligence unit. Rather than attempting to confront the thugs, the goal would be to infiltrate, observe and inform the police, who in some countries lack the resources and know-how to nip racism in the ugly bud. That, and considerably more meaningful punishments than a two-match suspension to a blatant racist on the pitch."(Rob Hughes)
Even though, racism does exists in Argentine soccer; like in Brazilian soccer the game is still played because it is an intricate part of the countries history. Soccer came to Argentina much like it came to Brazil. It started off as an elite sport and slowly transcended to the peasantry. Soon soccer became a way of life, people were playing it in the stadiums, parks and streets. The game began to embody the culture of the Brazilian people. Racism has been apart of the game and still is but, "when all is said and done they (the players) play for the love of the game and because they're bloody good and the game wouldn't be the same if they were not in it." (Miranda Pine) One of these players who played for the love of the game was Diego Maradona.
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David Trezeguet and veron are the only black people i have seen from argentina
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Trezeguet isnt french?
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Trezeguet's Mother is a black woman from France. I don't know what de hell Veron is.
Racism is a problem in Argentina. I was watching a program on GOL TV called 45/45 where one of the commentators (an Argentine) said that the ball moved on a penalty before the player struck it because the Africans ( He was referring to Nigeria in particular) performed black magic on the ball.
On another debate on GOL TV which was in English they said that a lot of these things are misunderstanding because of differences in culture and language. They pointed to the fact that in Uruguay they use a word to discribe black people which is harmless to them but extremely offensive in Brazil. That seems kind of strange to me, why during a game would want to call an opposing player a name like that. There must be an intention to insult the player.
At the end of the day football mirrors society and ignorance thrives in emotional environments like sport. While players must be encouraged to execute principles of sportmanship etc. I don't think this can't be tackled isolated from the social realty. If you're a racist off the pitch, I don't see how it will change when on the pitch. The monkey noises I heard in the Spain - England game particularly weren't coming from just 10 people. Those countries need to sort out their business.
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Real good documentary about Racism in football.
They trying to make it look like football is a white extremist sport to the US public.
They showing all the games in Spain and Italy and the fan and player behaviour.
They also showing the English national team and the views of the racisits across there. They have a group called the National front and the man say black footballers are not English. So gumble say but they are born and bred here....hear the man response "If a dog is born in a stable its still not a horse they are not English."
They interview Thierry henry as well and show him and other players getting boo on the pitch.
When you check it all our players who pass thru the wars real had a hard time, it isnt easy out there for them to succeed.
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It never cease to amaze me the way in which the public devours the football/soccer coverage in North America. I have been very critical with the Canadian sports channels with their lack of coverage of CONCACAF.I have send Emails and have made numerous pleads for expanded coverage of games outside of Europe. We need to rise the profile of the sport in te CONCACAF region and we as fans should be sending endless messages to our media for more coverage.
Last month on a program titled 'Soccer Central' they mentioned the USA victory but did not even acknowledge TNT games. It is appalling to watch and listen to the very eurocentric media propaganda of the sport. Is it any wonder the foreign press could take liberties and brand us as 'soccer minnows'
Far from me to chastize those who are freverent fans of the sports; in as far as I watch the occassional games, I am not and will not be seduced by leagues which claim to be the league of choice. There is an enthocentricim which prevails the soccer world; it is one which European countries attempt to control and monopolize. Any player of any reknown from countries out of Europe, are quickly bought up on the 'common market' and if they rae to have any claim to fame are forced to ply their trade with European clubs. The economics, the viability, the stability of these clubs have enslaved our very best and then to diminish our chance of any glory, is reeking havoc in efforts to undermine foreign players from representing thier countries in WCQ.
I am not anti European football, I find it simply arrogrant and biased the way in which the media 'hypes' european football as it it is the be all and end all of football suppremacy!!! hence when it comes to all WORLD CUP appearances, in lieu of a TNT appearance I rally for any African country and my favs... BRAZIL to kick all dem arse.
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alberta...yuh gettin political on we here man....but you have to realize who yuh talking about eh! is Europe yuh know!!! dem is the same fellaz who extract all the minerals out of Africa, and send up all the sugar from the caribbean on the backs of slaves and indentured laborers back to Europe...and when the flow runnin thin they say, we goh let yuh become independent, and we go lend yuh this loan at 300% interest...and these 3rd world countries not paying back they debts man (never even dare mention repatriation of what they stole)!!!
Europe? Babylon? who in thier right mind will ever expect anything fair from them?
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I saw the program and yes the racism is there obviously. I didn't like the fact that the showcase this on HBO when in reality HBO, and B Gumble couldn't care less about football and racism. I thought it was an opportunist piece, even though it was good to highlight.
But in reality who is America to talk about Racism and in football to boot. Like they really care.
America is still the most racist country on Earth and most exploitive, the difference is that they have grown up and know how to hide it. They not as foward and obvious but when the going gets tough, the poor still dying right here.
Look at Katrina and the reaction right in this country. Doctors was on television saying that the gov't officials tell them to not help people because it is a liability (as if poor people going to sue after steups) and they also tell them don't give them water cause if you do they won't leave. Dem people sick in the head.
Just yesterday this former Gov't official Bill Bennet say about if you abort all the black babies in America you would see the crime rate drop and he say he sure of that. And they actually find people to agree with him.
look it here
http://mediamatters.org/items/200509280006
So the story was true but to me they make it see as if..... look everybody look what they doing over there as if it aint happening here. They may not be chanting monkey noises here but they lettin people die when people need help the most.
But is mostly white men though cause they know every now and then and then again the women want the mandingalingo.... and what yuh go do but help them out in they time ah need ;) :D
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america love some fregging racism every chance dey get they go bring it up. ever since i come up here every time yuh see ah brother in work he talking bout the white mang him bringing him down. brother simple and plain everything ah man put his mind to he will get.dem men talkin bout racism and up here they iz de most set ah racist i ever see in my life.i had to hit ah man a slap fuh dissing ah fellow trini and calling him taliban cause he is ah indian.in the end yes there is racism in european football we all know that, but we dont want anybody from in america to tell we dat.
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Cause America take racism to the institutional level does not mean that they are any better. In Europe there is probably more intermixing than America. Only the surface does look good here, but when yuh dig below, the core of the matter is that this is still a segregated society, and many middle class and upper class white Americans hold very rigid, and often unrealistic sterortypes about black people. Why is it that every white American think that being black should be equated to hip hop, for example. I am a simple Caribbean man; not that I have anything with someone who listens to hip hop. Ah just saying, they don't take the time to know us as indivuals because they consider us all the same.
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a slap dan?
get tha morvant mentality out a yuh system
anybody know wen the episode of real sports showing again?
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Tell Mr. Gumbel to start covering what's happening in New Orleans, and forget about
the World's MOST Popular game. That's racism!!!
Football above all sports can bring peace to this planet, 'cause in every corner of
the globe, people live and breathe the game.
Football is a peace maker, like no other sport!
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The American media does go out of they way to portray football (yes the real football) as a violent game. Ah don't think they understand the communal ties these clubs have and the long history that they have. This ain't no franchise business where ytuh does move to get a tax shelter. We all know about the loyalty of American sporting teams; it's all about loyalty to money, not the fans. They can't stand to think that football is the world's game, and they'tre not dictating that.
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a slap dan?
get tha morvant mentality out a yuh system
anybody know wen the episode of real sports showing again?
It is showing on HBO2 at 4.00 this afternoon and tomorrow morning on HBO at 9.00 am.
Other showtimes here (http://www.hbo.com/apps/schedule/ScheduleServlet?CHANNEL=All+Channels&ACTION_SEARCH=SEARCH&KEY=TITLE&VALUE=real%20sports)
I'll comment when I check it out tomorrow.
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Tell Mr. Gumbel to start covering what's happening in New Orleans, and forget about
the World's MOST Popular game. That's racism!!!
Football above all sports can bring peace to this planet, 'cause in every corner of
the globe, people live and breathe the game.
Football is a peace maker, like no other sport!
Devraig
racism is not a football issue, it is a societal issue that can rear it's ugly head anywhere including football (evidently)..........so to tell Bryant Gumbel to forget about racism in the World's best game because it's a peacemaker is just creating a false pretence about another avenue through which racism creeps.......That kind of ignorance is what makes the problem escalate.........how can you openly boast of such backward thinking ?
You should think more carefully before you utter such garbage !!!!
Shame on you brother.
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we looking at the content of the program in a very narrow way. everyone wants to think of it as anti-football and anti-european...and in turn some of us are unwittingly demonstrating your own anti-american (anti-white american) prejudices. racism comes from ignorance...so let us take the higher road and not respond with ignorance as well. look...I am not going to defend the US, or the US press...I have many negative and many positive things to say about race in America, and american propaganda. But that does not change the fact that racists in Europe are using football stadia to gain publicity and terrify minorities in a way we thought was all in the past. Think what you may about the American press but silence is the greater sin......stop shooting doen the messenger and try to figure out what to do with the message
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Well said Filho. Best post on this thread.
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The issue of racism and how it is manifested and propogated through the media is at the heart of what we are seeing. Systemic barriers are cultivated and we get absorbed in a system's way of thinking.
Sometimes we need to step out and to confront the issue on different levels and in the multiple ways in which it is manifested in our daily encounters. Sports just happens to be one aspect and one mode by which elements of the issue is played out.
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Italy's racists make life hell for Ivory Coast's
Italy's racists make life hell for Ivory Coast's Zoro
October 12, 2005
ROME (AFP) - Despite promises by the Italian football authorities to clamp down on racism, Serie A defender Marc Zoro says he constantly suffers "deplorable" insults because of the colour of his skin.
"I have been playing in Italy for three years and I see this happening almost daily, particularly when I'm in the north or the centre of the country, playing against clubs like Lazio, Roma, Verona and Treviso," the 21-year-old, who plays for Sicilian side Messina, told AFP.
"It happens less in the south of Italy, but I have problems all the time. All this makes me really sad. It's not easy for me and it hurts. I don't deserve this."
ADVERTISEMENT
On the first day of this season, Messina played Lazio at Rome's Olympic stadium; Zoro, an Ivory Coast international, was subjected to monkey chants throughout the match.
His anger almost boiled over at the final whistle and he had to be restrained by his team-mates. Afterwards Lazio president Claudio Lotito went into the Messina dressing room to apologise on behalf of his club.
There was a similar outpouring of vitriol several weeks later when Messina visited Siena in Tuscany, where Zoro was roundly booed and jeered every time he touched the ball.
Asked whether initiatives like the European Week Against Racism in Sport - which runs from October 13 to 25 - could help eradicate the bigotry, Zoro said he thinks the issue runs too deep.
"It's a good thing, but the root of the problem is mentality; it's down to ignorance and a lack of sophistication.
"To shout racist insults and to throw things at the players is just savage behaviour. And sometimes it's even worse.
"(Ivory Coast born Lazio midfielder) Christian Manfredini is whistled by fans of his own club. If a fan loves his club, he can't have this kind of attitude."
Zoro was at a loss to explain why Italy has failed to deal with racism on the terraces, an offence which carries a possible jail sentence in England where the bigots have been driven away.
"It's deplorable that this happens in a country like Italy, which has one of the best football championships in the world and where football is so important," he said.
"It's clear that the international football community takes a very dim view of this, and my Messina teammates are very supportive.
"Once, in a match against Treviso, the whole team blackened their faces in a show of solidarity."
Last week Zoro's Ivory Coast team qualified for the World Cup for the very first time. Messina finished seventh in Serie A last season, their first campaign in the top division for almost 40 years.
Updated on Tuesday, Oct 11, 2005 8:09 pm EDT
"If you have no confidence in self, you are twice defeated in the race of life. With confidence, you have won even before you have started" - Marcus Garvey
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Yuh remember de big uproar when ah sweet darkie win Miss Italy...when she went to Miss Universe, she blast her own people about racism when dey asked her a question.
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And dem is the same people that get raped by the Moors. They playing they ain't know they history. As he said, in the South it is not as bad. De moors run through Southern Italy, Spain and Portugal. On a serious note though; it's a shame to see supporters making monkey chants at their own player. It's truly regrettable, and the FIFA big wigs needs to seriously address this. Start by fining clubs millions, not pennies, and let continued offences be me with home stadium bans, etc. Let clubs feel it where it impacts them the most. The slap on the wrist is obviously not working.
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Blatter does be in de news talking shit all de time, dis is what he should be addressing
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Blatter does be in de news talking shit all de time, dis is what he should be addressing
sorry bredda...but is not Blatter job to eradicate racism in the world. as far as I see FIFA doing real things and maybe they could do more, but there is a limit. Just becasue you seeing racism in the stadium it doh mean is a football problem...is a societal problem and you should be asking what the italian government and other italian and european human rights groups doing...doh jump on Blatter cause I do see FIFA addressing these problems...but dey need more support
And dem is the same people that get raped by the Moors. They playing they ain't know they history.
Wheeyyy....I doh think them historical 'facts' will make anybody less racist. If anything you giving dem a excuse
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For those of you who don't know my favourite team F.C. St. Pauli (at present only 3rd division in germany, so I Would understand...)
Here is a short extract from their English homepage:
Parallel to the development of the St. Pauli district, which attracted increasing numbers of students, punks and artists, from the mid-eighties on an alternative fan scene came into being around the Millerntor, and for the first time the pirate flag was raised at the stadium. From this time on the skull and crossbones gave symbolic expression to the rebellious and pugnacious philosophy of the club and its fans.
This attitude paid dividends when the club once more earned promotion to the top division of the Bundesliga in 1988 – an event of mythic resonance. Remarkable contests were played out at the Millerntor home pitch against apparently invincible opponents. All the same, there was a constant concern for fair and civilised behaviour towards the opposing side. Incidentally, the St. Pauli football club was the first club to enshrine a ban on rightwing nationalist tendencies in its stadium rules right from the start.
SAY NO TO RACISM!! Forzza St. Pauli 8)
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I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...
I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction
P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...
RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!
also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic
-Sal from Bahrain
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you feel ww2 just done adn the philosophy of racism dead with it? Or slavery just done, so black people are not philosophically still on the same level as cattle? you believe the excuses of why the nclear bomb was dropped on japan and not germany? nah brother, this is man's greatest challenge, and to close your eyes t it is just stupid
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WAR ON RACISM NOW.
UNTIL THE COLOR OF A MAN'S EYE IS OF NO MORE SIGNIFICANCE THAN THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN.
I SAY IS WAR.
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P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...
-Sal from Bahrain
Generally true but as usual in an attempt to justify the enslavement of peoples of Black African origin, suggesting that a significant number of these 'conquerors' were Black Africans would not have lent itself to the justification of slavery at the time. So promoting the idea that it was a solely Arab/Semetic group that ran through Southern Italy and Iberia became the story promoted and accpeted widely when truth and fact it was far from actuality. Recent research of genetic markers from DNA analysis prove to the contrary popular held beliefs by the masses.
Also, being a person with muslim blood in my veins what thread on this forum did someone insult Muslims or Islam, I would like to read this thread myself.
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WAR ON RACISM NOW.
UNTIL THE COLOR OF A MAN'S EYE IS OF NO MORE SIGNIFICANCE THAN THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN.
I SAY IS WAR.
Brother racism is not simply about skin colour. racism exist in all forms and fashions, look what happened in the former Yugoslavia. I once asked a Croatian if he could tell a Serbian by looking at him, he said no. Yet they killed eash other in the millions. Same with Rawanda, the same thing happened in China. Racism like politics, like religion is basically an excuse to dominate and seize power. I read Triniman comments about Mugabe and about T&T society (which was inaccurate at best). But I could not help but wonder if Triniman really believed that if their were no Syrians, Chinee, White or Indian and the businesses were own by peoples of African ethnicity, if they would have no one working for little pay, scrunting and ketchin their ass. The devisions of peoples is basically have and have nots and every place on earth their are more have nots than haves. And the haves will do anything to keep it that way.
Back to ball, I believe in general football more than any sport has drawn peoples together. the minority who bring their beliefs of racism to the game are simply that "a minority" But yuh know if you go Italy their is a divide between Nort and South, if you want to hear insults and comments of disgust you should be at a game like Napoli vs Milan lard!
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Nice one observer, but explain Spain vs England for me ? That wasn't a minority doing the monkey calls.
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anyone who thinks Italian football isnt racist is having a laugh, the ultra's are as racist as they come with their monkey chants and calling people n*gger. Other leagues might have racism but at least its kept out of the stadiums. I have been to Lazio games with swastika banners being flown and nothing was done and the same guys go back week after week. In england you would probably get a 5 year ban at minimum.
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I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...
And 95% percent of those chanting to ofend the player do not care that they are supporting the 5% who are hard core racists.
They have no love for the black man otherwise they would not commit what are DESPICABLE acts, so saying that is "blown out of proportion" is ridiculous.
Just as ridiculous as using the presence of black players on their teams as a defence. If the black OX (or employee/slave) is working for you, scoring goals and making your team better, you will tolerate him, maybe even love him.
But that does not mean that you are not racist because as soon as he falls out of favour or moves to a next team you will boo and chant.
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I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...
I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction
P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...
RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!
also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic
-Sal from Bahrain
Sal Let me remind you that trinidad & tobago if you don't know happens to be one of the most diverse countries in the world,we have a hindu and muslim population to be proud of for over 100 years so get off your high horse and try to understand the dynamics of the forum what you may deem as racist we call banter and as for understanding the people of bahrain we're getting a taste of your sensitivity to certain issues.This is by far the most I've heard of bahrain and bahrain have heard of us,so it's a learning curve for all intended,it's amazing how soccer can bring countries together it surely is the worlds greatest game.But not to stray from the topic I think wherever you live or what country you live in there's a degree of racism even I suspect in bahrain,so with that said give us the name of your website and chat room in bahrain with english translation and extend the same courtesy offered to bahrain by this forum.
Thank You
It's a small World After All.....
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I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...
I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction
P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...
RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!
also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic
-Sal from Bahrain
Sal Let me remind you that trinidad & tobago if you don't know happens to be one of the most diverse countries in the world,we have a hindu and muslim population to be proud of for over 100 years so get off your high horse and try to understand the dynamics of the forum what you may deem as racist we call banter and as for understanding the people of bahrain we're getting a taste of your sensitivity to certain issues.This is by far the most I've heard of bahrain and bahrain have heard of us,so it's a learning curve for all intended,it's amazing how soccer can bring countries together it surely is the worlds greatest game.But not to stray from the topic I think wherever you live or what country you live in there's a degree of racism even I suspect in bahrain,so with that said give us the name of your website and chat room in bahrain with english translation and extend the same courtesy offered to bahrain by this forum.
Thank You
It's a small World After All.....
You may call it banter, But i don't think insulting other people based on their culture, color, or religion is banter...
anyways, going back to the topic, most the fans in the stands are not racist, most of them do not participate or agree with such behaviours.... the problem is that the media (especially the british media) trys to make every body else look bad... I know people who go to Lazio home games, sit next to lazio ultra's and its normal... its not like people come in being racist ...
it is a personal attack on the player, it is wrong, but again it happens, like the gay chants Totti recieves during games for example ...
I agree with you its wrong... I am just saying, its not like these fans go around hating black people, its just that they hate their opponents.
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I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...
I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction
P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...
RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!
also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic
-Sal from Bahrain
You chat crap oui. That is the biggest bull I have ever heard about the lazio fans ever since Lillan Thuram was at parma they give me abuse for supporting anti racism. remember when they racially abused four of parma players so bad that they basically gave up. They couldnt take it no more. How do to explain lazio fans for hanging banners with nazi signs of openly?
Remember last season when di canio made that Nazi Salute? why did he do that? because he wanted to connect with his racist idiotic fans
Remember when Sinisa Mihajlovic racially abused patrick vieira in the champions league? and then when he went on the pitch to say sorry and try and stop lazio fans from being racist. What did the fans do, they booed him.
Any person who follow football hard knows that lazio is the MOST RACIST CLUB EVER. That club makes me sick.
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alasam I am sad to say your friends are not telling you the whole truth, have you actually been to a Lazio game ?
or even better are your friends black ? Try and go and stand next to the ultra if you black, lets see how long before the abuse starts.
Lazio are racist and the reason the english media blow it up is because they were punished in the past for crowd violence and yet they see these idiots doing it every week and the Italian FA do f**k all. Check out next time look at the Nazi salutes that isnt the mexican wave. I used to like Lazio but never again I have been to their games and will never go again. There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.
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alasam I am sad to say your friends are not telling you the whole truth, have you actually been to a Lazio game ?
or even better are your friends black ? Try and go and stand next to the ultra if you black, lets see how long before the abuse starts.
Lazio are racist and the reason the english media blow it up is because they were punished in the past for crowd violence and yet they see these idiots doing it every week and the Italian FA do f**k all. Check out next time look at the Nazi salutes that isnt the mexican wave. I used to like Lazio but never again I have been to their games and will never go again. There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.
Steups Them Bastard you will put a black person in hospital after 5mins into the game
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i've never been to a lazio match and i don't think i ever want to go. what i know from tv is more than enough.
why is nobody doing anything against it? why do the other fans not let them nazis know they are not wanted? why don't the players stand up and tell them they are a shame?
why does the club not forbid such banners and chantings and will not let people into the stadium any more after violating those rules?
why do the italian football association and uefa or fifa not punish the club real hard?
all this i can't understand.
with these type of fans, lazio has to be banned from all official matches!
things like that don't happen in other european leagues (i heard of bad incidents in croatia though, zagreb esp. - anybody knows more?) and if it happens, in Spain, England, Germany, France, where ever, people stand up against it, because RACISM IS CRIME NOT AN OPINION! >:(
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alasam I am sad to say your friends are not telling you the whole truth, have you actually been to a Lazio game ?
or even better are your friends black ? Try and go and stand next to the ultra if you black, lets see how long before the abuse starts.
Lazio are racist and the reason the english media blow it up is because they were punished in the past for crowd violence and yet they see these idiots doing it every week and the Italian FA do f**k all. Check out next time look at the Nazi salutes that isnt the mexican wave. I used to like Lazio but never again I have been to their games and will never go again. There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.
we;ve had Arabs, as well as darker skinned individuals sit next to the ultra's on the Rome derby the biggest game for Roman teams ...
The abuse is overreported, a small faction does it... and suddenly people assume EVERY LAZIO FAN is racist... which is complete bullcrap. See Lazio are racist ... thats a joke ? Why not reporting Inter MIlan for racist abuse ? or the Real Madrid fans, or the Roma fans, or the Atletico fans... or the Milwall fans (who years back went on a riot fighting against every asian man in their area) ... Lazio is just put in the face of all this ...
You chat crap oui. That is the biggest bull I have ever heard about the lazio fans ever since Lillan Thuram was at parma they give me abuse for supporting anti racism. remember when they racially abused four of parma players so bad that they basically gave up. They couldnt take it no more. How do to explain lazio fans for hanging banners with nazi signs of openly?
Remember last season when di canio made that Nazi Salute? why did he do that? because he wanted to connect with his racist idiotic fans
Remember when Sinisa Mihajlovic racially abused patrick vieira in the champions league? and then when he went on the pitch to say sorry and try and stop lazio fans from being racist. What did the fans do, they booed him.
Any person who follow football hard knows that lazio is the MOST RACIST CLUB EVER. That club makes me sick.
As for the DiCanio comment... there is a difference between the Roman salute, which existed since Roman times, and Nazi culture. It was a stupid gesture, given the associated meaning (people assumed he was nazi), but its a Roman salute... DiCanio is not a nazi... nor are lazio fans. I think you have no idea of soccer, nor have enough knowledge of Lazio (lazio fans are right wing, like Inter fans, like Hellas Verona fans, they put right wing signs all over to show that... the nazi sign I've seen and I've been pissed at, because its stupid... it makes us all look bad... but the reason for putting it is political, Fans in Italy are political... right wing VS communists VS Liberal.... they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). They racially abused 4 parma players, that is wrong... no one said its right... but to say that the fans and the club are racist is just a stupid comment, I guess living in england you learn that... you know every one makes mistakes but the english :rotfl: As for the Miha comment... Miha is an idiot ... did you see him lick Mattarazi's ear... or when he kissed stankovic on the mouth when we were playing against Inter ? Ahahaha. Also when he went on the feild to stop Lazio fans from being racist ... that never happened.
Where were you and the biased english press when Dabo recieved a standing ovation even after he scored an own goal ? Where were you when Manfredini got cheered so hard, I was thinking (this guy sux, why the cheer) ...
It is normal to boo your opponents... to say that lazio fans are racist... is just dumb
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have you been to these games ??
I have and its not overreported they have a large racist following and middle eastern looking is not black !
I dont have to argue with you I have been to these games and seen what goes on where clearly you havent or choose to not see it. yes it does exist at other clubs but nowhere as openly as at Lazio.
Ps Millwall had many convictions after the riots and they are now banned for life .............see the difference
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have you been to these games ??
I have and its not overreported they have a large racist following and middle eastern looking is not black !
I dont have to argue with you I have been to these games and seen what goes on where clearly you havent or choose to not see it. yes it does exist at other clubs but nowhere as openly as at Lazio.
Ps Millwall had many convictions after the riots and they are now banned for life .............see the difference
YOu've been to a lazio game ? I have freinds who have been there... I could not go last derby (ran out of cash :'() I am saying is that it does exist... but not to the extent that is reported... most lazio fans are appalled by these actions... one should not overgeneralize... like the fellow above... suddenly all lazio fans, and the club itself is racist...
also its a dying group that commits these acts .... they have been dissapearing over the past years (thank God) and we're happy as lazio fans to get rid of them
Many fans have been fighting these groups on the stands (cause obviously the club says its helpless... it does not own the stadium, and the Italian FA claim to not know such things, then fine the club which is not responsible for a stadium it does not own) I know there were moments in the past years where groups were clashing with each other... but its good, cause if no one steps up... then people like that dude above(not superoli) will say "all lazio fans are racist" (meaning I'm suddenly racist too lol!)
I know there have been many stupid things in the past... but don't overgeneralize... its wrong to overgeneralize... most lazio fans are in no shape or way racist ... most lazio fans hate the fact they are labeled racist ...
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have you been to these games ??
I have and its not overreported they have a large racist following and middle eastern looking is not black !
I dont have to argue with you I have been to these games and seen what goes on where clearly you havent or choose to not see it. yes it does exist at other clubs but nowhere as openly as at Lazio.
Ps Millwall had many convictions after the riots and they are now banned for life .............see the difference
You still can't generalize.....Lazio is famous for ultras (responsible for most open racism), but they are still considered an extremist group.
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How am I gerneralising ?
I am not saying all Lazio fans are racist, I used to go to to there games !
what I am saying they have the largest openly racist element of football team I have been to.
But what is worse is that Lazio FC are not doing anything about it !
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With all this racism talk one might be tempted to think that trinis are fighters first.... nothing could be further from the truth.... trinis are for the most part extremly cool characters able to put a party spin on anything..... ie. if you don't believe me check out WC2006.... carnival in Germany..... :chilling:
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How am I gerneralising ?
I am not saying all Lazio fans are racist, I used to go to to there games !
There supporters are the worst I have ever seen in person and that is saying alot as man who went to watch Shaka at West Ham.
That is what you said earlier, and that is why it sounded like you were generalizing.........by "there supporters" I assume you mean "their supporters".....which implies that you were talking about all of their supporters...which is generalizing......
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I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...
I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction
P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...
RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!
also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic
-Sal from Bahrain
The Moors who under Hannibal invaded Italy were of both Black African and Arab groups. There was actually a definite distinction between the two groups.
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I can only say sorry I did not mean to imply that. English language is great huh !
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yeah what one says and what one means is often different.......It's all good....... :beermug:
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As for the DiCanio comment... there is a difference between the Roman salute, which existed since Roman times, and Nazi culture. It was a stupid gesture, given the associated meaning (people assumed he was nazi), but its a Roman salute... DiCanio is not a nazi... nor are lazio fans. I think you have no idea of soccer, nor have enough knowledge of Lazio (lazio fans are right wing, like Inter fans, like Hellas Verona fans, they put right wing signs all over to show that... the nazi sign I've seen and I've been pissed at, because its stupid... it makes us all look bad... but the reason for putting it is political, Fans in Italy are political... right wing VS communists VS Liberal.... they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). They racially abused 4 parma players, that is wrong... no one said its right... but to say that the fans and the club are racist is just a stupid comment, I guess living in england you learn that... you know every one makes mistakes but the english :rotfl: As for the Miha comment... Miha is an idiot ... did you see him lick Mattarazi's ear... or when he kissed stankovic on the mouth when we were playing against Inter ? Ahahaha. Also when he went on the feild to stop Lazio fans from being racist ... that never happened.
Where were you and the biased english press when Dabo recieved a standing ovation even after he scored an own goal ? Where were you when Manfredini got cheered so hard, I was thinking (this guy sux, why the cheer) ...
It is normal to boo your opponents... to say that lazio fans are racist... is just dumb
And where were you when Dabo got spat in the face in rome by his own fans? Does that one standing ovation hide the racist banners and racism that has happend previous and present.
Lazio has a strong racist background. accept it.Its so obvious theres no point debating it.
and who said english dont make mistakes? I never said that. Do I feel that,no. so dont put words in my mouth. You are stupid to say that because you dont know how it is to live as a black man in England for me to feel the english are allways right.
and I never said that lazio IS racist i say they are the MOST racist club
and that idiotic player did go on the field in a champions league game after the arsenal one to stop Lazio fans from being racist and he did sorry to vieira for his stupid behaviour
As for when you said this part they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). yes im sure thats the same reason why alot of them get nazi tattoos ::)
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I'm a lazio fan ... stuff like this is blown way out of context ... the reason why the monkey chants exist is to offend the player... I know its wrong, but 95% of the fans don't even care what the color of the player's skin is ...
I mean these clubs have black players... and many of them are hero's to the fans ... which shows the contradiction
P.S the Moors were N. Africans (like arabs, semetic blood line) who went into lands conquered by the arabs, like southern Italy, and spain and settled there ...
RACISM SHOULD NOT EXIST IN TODAY'S SOCIETY!
also speaking of racist (well discrimination), check one of the earlier threads on this forum where some user attacks muslims ... isn't that sad ... you know this is sports, you can make fun of each other's teams, but insulting skin color, and religion ? thats just pathetic
-Sal from Bahrain
The Moors who under Hannibal invaded Italy were of both Black African and Arab groups. There was actually a definite distinction between the two groups.
There were definitly many of African origin, but even then it was mostly northern Africans, such as the berbers, and the ex Carthigians (pheonician)
there were definetly many darker skinned warriors who fought with their brothers and inhabited spain for 700 years :beermug:
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And where were you when Dabo got spat in the face in rome by his own fans? Does that one standing ovation hide the racist banners and racism that has happend previous and present.
Lazio has a strong racist background. accept it.Its so obvious theres no point debating it.
and who said english dont make mistakes? I never said that. Do I feel that,no. so dont put words in my mouth. You are stupid to say that because you dont know how it is to live as a black man in England for me to feel the english are allways right.
and I never said that lazio IS racist i say they are the MOST racist club
and that idiotic player did go on the field in a champions league game after the arsenal one to stop Lazio fans from being racist and he did sorry to vieira for his stupid behaviour
As for when you said this part they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). yes im sure thats the same reason why alot of them get nazi tattoos ::)
Another dumb posts, that shows ignorance of the topic ... Dabo was never spat on by home fans, the lazio fans love dabo, and he loves the team... if anything Dabo is one of the reasons, why racist scum have been silenced on lazio stands ...
they love his fighting spirit, his drive, and will power, and there were banners last few games praising Dabo ...
if anyone got attacked by lazio fans its Liverani (who has a black mother) and the media claimed it was because he was black... I guess no one mentioned that he is a lazio player... and was seen (and even had his pictures in the news) celebrating Roma's scuddetto ... I mean these people hate each other ... and you as a player celebrate your rivals season victory ... thats stupid !
Lazio does not have a racist background... again shows ignorance of the topic (what you're gonna say Mussolini used to be a lazio fan ? did you know that in reality mussolini fought against lazio? or did you know the reason why his party hated lazio was that they wanted to merge all Rome clubs to form one club (today that club is called Roma) the only team to refuse was Lazio... so they had them demoted for years and years)
Lazio are in no way the most racist club... they are not the most racist in Italy, and for sure not even top 20 in Europe... (see eastern European clubs ....)
As for lazio fans having Nazi tatoo's thats the biggest pile of crap I've heard ... what you went to rome... asked who was a lazio fan and started looking at the tatoo's they have ... Lazio fans are not nazi... some lazio ultra's are nationalists (the new name for what used to be the facist movement)... big difference (and the pro nationalist movement is a big political group running for office in Italy)... if anything they have tatoo's of eagles...
I mean you seem to have no idea what so ever... prolly been told Lazio are racist and b00m thats what you believe... always a shame when people just believe what ever crap they read or hear ...
I mean some parts of the western media (see fox) claim that muslims want to kill christians... and some people actually believe it ...
I'd just tell you ... get to know lazio fans... get to read into their history, get to know whats going on in the stands before just throwing around such claims... it shows you off in a bad light
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And where were you when Dabo got spat in the face in rome by his own fans? Does that one standing ovation hide the racist banners and racism that has happend previous and present.
Lazio has a strong racist background. accept it.Its so obvious theres no point debating it.
and who said english dont make mistakes? I never said that. Do I feel that,no. so dont put words in my mouth. You are stupid to say that because you dont know how it is to live as a black man in England for me to feel the english are allways right.
and I never said that lazio IS racist i say they are the MOST racist club
and that idiotic player did go on the field in a champions league game after the arsenal one to stop Lazio fans from being racist and he did sorry to vieira for his stupid behaviour
As for when you said this part they all put signs to the extreme to show their hate of the other group... that is the reason for it, nothing more). yes im sure thats the same reason why alot of them get nazi tattoos ::)
Another dumb posts, that shows ignorance of the topic ... Dabo was never spat on by home fans, the lazio fans love dabo, and he loves the team... if anything Dabo is one of the reasons, why racist scum have been silenced on lazio stands ...
they love his fighting spirit, his drive, and will power, and there were banners last few games praising Dabo ...
if anyone got attacked by lazio fans its Liverani (who has a black mother) and the media claimed it was because he was black... I guess no one mentioned that he is a lazio player... and was seen (and even had his pictures in the news) celebrating Roma's scuddetto ... I mean these people hate each other ... and you as a player celebrate your rivals season victory ... thats stupid !
Lazio does not have a racist background... again shows ignorance of the topic (what you're gonna say Mussolini used to be a lazio fan ? did you know that in reality mussolini fought against lazio? or did you know the reason why his party hated lazio was that they wanted to merge all Rome clubs to form one club (today that club is called Roma) the only team to refuse was Lazio... so they had them demoted for years and years)
Lazio are in no way the most racist club... they are not the most racist in Italy, and for sure not even top 20 in Europe... (see eastern European clubs ....)
As for lazio fans having Nazi tatoo's thats the biggest pile of crap I've heard ... what you went to rome... asked who was a lazio fan and started looking at the tatoo's they have ... Lazio fans are not nazi... some lazio ultra's are nationalists (the new name for what used to be the facist movement)... big difference (and the pro nationalist movement is a big political group running for office in Italy)... if anything they have tatoo's of eagles...
I mean you seem to have no idea what so ever... prolly been told Lazio are racist and b00m thats what you believe... always a shame when people just believe what ever crap they read or hear ...
I mean some parts of the western media (see fox) claim that muslims want to kill christians... and some people actually believe it ...
I'd just tell you ... get to know lazio fans... get to read into their history, get to know whats going on in the stands before just throwing around such claims... it shows you off in a bad light
Was what you said about the english part was right? and I told you it wasnt right. but yet still you believe it.That was rude. Suit your self. I havent got my info from just hearing people so you should be quiet on those things and not assume.
As you say everyone is not racist(which I never said everyone is) not all lazio fans love dabo(read the words first before you jump to conclusions) and for some for those fans it because of his skin colour. I have met lazio fans in london and MOST of them admit there is a LARGE(Read my words first, i didnt say all) amount of fans that are racist. also I DONT CARE if it shows me off in a bad light because your making allover conclusions about a person on the internet which is stupid and refer what people know as dumb.I havent said anything about you even though you deine the most obvious things.
Were talking about Lazio which isnt even a good team anymore and doesnt have alot of interest for godness sake.
As for the nazi tattoos they have been caputed on TV when Lazio were in the in UCL last time on 3 occasions they have also been captured at real madrid twice(Im just saying what i saw dont jump to conclusions and make it into another arguement(thats blatant for example If someone calls you a racist name you dont need to read up on them to know if they are really racist)
We'll agree to disagree but if you dont believe Lazio is well known ELITE TEAM(im not talking about a team in the romania division 2 for goodness sake thats known for racist behaviour) for having a noticeable amount of racist fans your lying to yourself.
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As for the nazi tattoos they have been caputed on TV when Lazio were in the in UCL last time on 3 occasions they have also been captured at real madrid twice
I have read the Italy keeper Buffon has a nazi tattoo on his body. I cant remember where i read it so i dont know how valid it is
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Lazio are in no way the most racist club... they are not the most racist in Italy, and for sure not even top 20 in Europe... (see eastern European clubs ....)
yeah, some of the eastern european clubs are just as bad. but using terms like "most" and "top 20" is, i think, missing the point. racism is not a competition.
there are alot of targets for blame - the clubs for not doing more to identify the racists, the supporters who show up and sit next to the racists but do nothing (passive support) and the racists themselves. don't think yuh solving this one anytime soon....
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dats true, there should be stadium rules dat kick our fellas who taunt, chant and make racist remarks and di should be clamped down by fifa
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As for the nazi tattoos they have been caputed on TV when Lazio were in the in UCL last time on 3 occasions they have also been captured at real madrid twice
I have read the Italy keeper Buffon has a nazi tattoo on his body. I cant remember where i read it so i dont know how valid it is
I was just on a buffon website http://www.buffononline.com which had this line
"Gigi often spends time visiting and helping less fortunate people in Africa, he claims his money and status will never change him from the person he has always been. "
so my above statement is probably false
It also stated his idol growing up was N'kono of Cameroon
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yeah, some of the eastern european clubs are just as bad. but using terms like "most" and "top 20" is, i think, missing the point. racism is not a competition.
there are alot of targets for blame - the clubs for not doing more to identify the racists, the supporters who show up and sit next to the racists but do nothing (passive support) and the racists themselves. don't think yuh solving this one anytime soon....
Yuh hit the nail right on th ehead there ribbit.
Sal is missing the point completely. Just the fact that he is bending over backwards to explain, excuse and favourably compare the situation at Lazio to other clubs means that they will keep saying that it is a small problem and ignore it.
It will never be dealt with as long as sensible fans continue to turn a blind eye to it.
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yeah, some of the eastern european clubs are just as bad. but using terms like "most" and "top 20" is, i think, missing the point. racism is not a competition.
there are alot of targets for blame - the clubs for not doing more to identify the racists, the supporters who show up and sit next to the racists but do nothing (passive support) and the racists themselves. don't think yuh solving this one anytime soon....
Yuh hit the nail right on th ehead there ribbit.
Sal is missing the point completely. Just the fact that he is bending over backwards to explain, excuse and favourably compare the situation at Lazio to other clubs means that they will keep saying that it is a small problem and ignore it.
It will never be dealt with as long as sensible fans continue to turn a blind eye to it.
No body is ignoring it my freind... and I am not missing the point... I did say its wrong, I did say it does not belong on the football feild.
Point is... its hard to prevent, the stadiums in Italy are not owned by the teams (they do not police it), and you have games that draw about 80.000+ people ... how do you know which one is a racist or which one is not ?
its not like they have 10-15 thousand to control... they have 80,000 out of which perhaps 500-1000 are monkey racist scum ... you can speak against it... you can start booing and insulting your own fans (which is what happened to lazio fans when abuse against Zoro, who has the coolest name lol, started) ... all you can do is fine a club ... that is already trying to control the situation... and these guys who do it could care less about the club... they are there to pick fights, start riots, and political reasons...
so its the real fans and the club that gets punished, never the racists
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No body is ignoring it my freind... and I am not missing the point... I did say its wrong, I did say it does not belong on the football feild.
Point is... its hard to prevent, the stadiums in Italy are not owned by the teams (they do not police it), and you have games that draw about 80.000+ people ... how do you know which one is a racist or which one is not ?
its not like they have 10-15 thousand to control... they have 80,000 out of which perhaps 500-1000 are monkey racist scum ... you can speak against it... you can start booing and insulting your own fans (which is what happened to lazio fans when abuse against Zoro, who has the coolest name lol, started) ... all you can do is fine a club ... that is already trying to control the situation... and these guys who do it could care less about the club... they are there to pick fights, start riots, and political reasons...
so its the real fans and the club that gets punished, never the racists
of course you can find out the racists. maybe not before the match, but during the match. even in the division three matches in germany i go to, i have police cameras right in front of me sometimes. if somebody is throwing his beer cup on the field, police or club officials will go into the stands and get the guy after having identified him. he will get no permission to visit further matches for the rest of the season or even longer for a minor offense....
you can get those nazi-idiots!!!
what we are all missing here are clear statements and in the first place action to solve the nazi problem at lazio. it seems it's at least tolerated, certainly not there is no fight against it. :(
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Pele proud of black players' success
DOHA, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Pele said on Friday his biggest contribution to soccer was not confined to the field but in also helping to enable black players attain the status they have today.
Pele, who was 65 last month and remains unsurpassed as the world's greatest player, was speaking at a news conference after the opening of the new Aspire Academy sports dome, the largest of its kind in the world.
He recalled: "As a 17-year-old at the 1958 World Cup in Sweden I noticed that only my team, Brazil, had black players. I was watching teams like France and Sweden training nearby and they all had white players.
"But today, I can see black players in all these national teams and I believe I have contributed a lot to bringing about this change."
He added: "Football is a great game, it brings together people of different hues. It's a family, but my contribution is also social. FIFA has more affiliates than UNESCO and I feel proud to be part of it."
Pele denounced violence and racism in the sport although he felt there were few places where racism still existed in soccer.
He said: "I know in some places in Italy there are some problems. But FIFA is doing its best and I am sure they will continue to take strong measures to wipe this out."
Looking ahead to next year's World Cup finals in Germany, he said Brazil were favourites to win for the sixth time even though most of the team play for different clubs in Europe and assemble only a few days before the tournament.
"But they are easily the best," said Pele. "They have two good players ready for each position."
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Brazil may very well win this cup again...if they can get pass my soca warriors ;D
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anybody remember the movie victory with stallone pele ardiles and moore.somebody ask pele in de movie where he learn his football.his answer was TRINIDAD.EVEN PELE WANT TO B AH SOCA WARRIOR :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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I think Maradona is better than Pele...
whats more classifying players as white, and black etc... defeats the purpose ...
I could care less if a player on my team or national team is black, white, yellow, orange, purple or what ever ...
we are all human, and equal under God :)
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I think Maradona is better than Pele...
whats more classifying players as white, and black etc... defeats the purpose ...
I could care less if a player on my team or national team is black, white, yellow, orange, purple or what ever ...
we are all human, and equal under God :)
That is true , we are all human and equal in the eyes of God but many humans tend to believe that Black people are less than such. BTW Maradona could never be better than Pele, never in a thousand years.
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I think Maradona is better than Pele...
whats more classifying players as white, and black etc... defeats the purpose ...
I could care less if a player on my team or national team is black, white, yellow, orange, purple or what ever ...
we are all human, and equal under God :)
Ah hear yuh Alsalman....it doh matter for me what color anyone is...living in d US you see people want equality but seperate a lot based on color. I all for maintaining yuh heritage and history but combine it, is one world. I doh expect everybody to agree with this one but is how i see it.
Maradona was a great player but sour heself in my eyes when he start diving and that "Hand of God" BS that throw out meh dark horse favorites England. Dat man go be remembered for changind d rules and having players getting booked for faking and for he crackhead behavior. A boss player never d less but Pele was d best. Lewwe hope John break dat scoring record so I could coast it on meh Brazilian partners head.
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I think its pathetic that people think that Black people are less human than whites ... they also try to paint Jesus as a blond white man to support that argument.(lol Jesus is the semitic cousin of mine! he has a tan, and is not blond)
I think the problem lies in the human need to dehumanize others for the sake of believing that they are the "moral right"
I am glad one of the first thing Prophit Muhamed and Islam did was to say there is no difference between humans. Infact many of the early muslims were people of Black decent, who were liberated by the fact that Islam considers them equal.
The first public Muaadin (the one who performs call to prayer) was Bilal (a black man) who became one of the closest companions of the prophit, and one of the highest regarded Islamic figures.
Racism should not be tolerated... it goes against God, it goes against morality, and its just a tool to oppress others for personal gain.
As for the Maradona Pele argument ... its a never ending one ;D
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I think its pathetic that people think that Black people are less human than whites ... they also try to paint Jesus as a blond white man to support that argument.(lol Jesus is the semitic cousin of mine! he has a tan, and is not blond)
I think the problem lies in the human need to dehumanize others for the sake of believing that they are the "moral right"
I am glad one of the first thing Prophit Muhamed and Islam did was to say there is no difference between humans. Infact many of the early muslims were people of Black decent, who were liberated by the fact that Islam considers them equal.
The first public Muaadin (the one who performs call to prayer) was Bilal (a black man) who became one of the closest companions of the prophit, and one of the highest regarded Islamic figures.
Racism should not be tolerated... it goes against God, it goes against morality, and its just a tool to oppress others for personal gain.
As for the Maradona Pele argument ... its a never ending one ;D
Yeah the Pele/ Maradona debate is never ending, but I often wonder what the Maradona backers use to make such a claim. It can't be statistics, and if not, what is it?
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I think its pathetic that people think that Black people are less human than whites ... they also try to paint Jesus as a blond white man to support that argument.(lol Jesus is the semitic cousin of mine! he has a tan, and is not blond)
I think the problem lies in the human need to dehumanize others for the sake of believing that they are the "moral right"
I am glad one of the first thing Prophit Muhamed and Islam did was to say there is no difference between humans. Infact many of the early muslims were people of Black decent, who were liberated by the fact that Islam considers them equal.
The first public Muaadin (the one who performs call to prayer) was Bilal (a black man) who became one of the closest companions of the prophit, and one of the highest regarded Islamic figures.
Racism should not be tolerated... it goes against God, it goes against morality, and its just a tool to oppress others for personal gain.
As for the Maradona Pele argument ... its a never ending one ;D
aye wait...le we get serious here.....God is ah female full stop
Parents from trinidad, but she like roaming de streets ah de world in other words she foot hot. Last Wednesday she was in Bahrain watching de game....well we know de outcome ah that :-*
Plus she hair ain't blonde it in small canerow.
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there was a guy here pretending to support us, and he was talking all kinds of shit about black folk, he really got me angry.
Can't beleive that in this day and age, there are still people with such stupid racist ideas.
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Pele and Maradona in two separate leagues of their own - although Pele name will remain immortal.
The thing bout Maradona, skill aside, is how he let himself and his life slide after 1990, looking at him today no one would guess (if they never heard of him) that he was a professional athlete that led Argentina to World Cup triumph.
For his age, Pele still keepin fit, has the same humility and easygoing-ness that characterizes a lot of Brazilian players (except Romario, haha). When he touches a football, to this day...yuh does still see flashes of unique brilliance.
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there was a guy here pretending to support us, and he was talking all kinds of shit about black folk, he really got me angry.
Can't beleive that in this day and age, there are still people with such stupid racist ideas.
Let's face it, we still live in a very racist world and it permeates EVERY aspect of it. Why do you think young Arabs and Africans are burning France...racism.
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pele and maradona is two of the best players of all time but one of them f up and started taking drugs setting a bad example on younger talent coming up and the other one is still inspiring players off the field so pele is a better footballer on or off the field right now
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pele have more class, and respect for himself, but maradonna is still one of dey greatest. maradonna make a bad name fuh heself. pele reigns as football king not only for who he is now, but for al that he has done in the past.
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pele and maradona is two of the best players of all time but one of them f up and started taking drugs setting a bad example on younger talent coming up and the other one is still inspiring players off the field so pele is a better footballer on or off the field right now
yea then you have that idiot LePenn comming and saying that Immigrants even if french civizens should be deported back home ... and people back him ... talk about Idiots ...
Zidane = Algerian
Thuram, Henry, Vieira all are immigrants and they are the ones who brought france victory
as for Maradona he does not beat Pele's stats but you know that stats are not every thing ...
Iran's Ali Daei is the highest goal scorer for national team ever ... does not make him the best ever... I think why many people favor Maradona is due to the fact that most of us actually watched him play during our live times and live ;D
also
(http://www.alkhaleej.ae/dak/images/2005/11/20/sp-13.jpg)
;D ;D ;D
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Pele is not as big as he used to be
He's hard to find on the Internet or on Television
Why is that ???
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Pele is not as big as he used to be
He's hard to find on the Internet or on Television
Why is that ???
u serious? hard to find on the internet :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
what that had to do with anything??
he just do ah sierra mist commercial with freddy adu and was skillsing it
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THINGS GETTING REAL BAD FOR BLACK PLAYERS IN ITALY..
Mighty Zoro leaves his mark
By James Richardson
The brave stand of one Messina player against Internazionale fans has made all of Italy sit up and acknowledge the problem of stadium racism.
So bad they're good - that's Inter's fans. Last season the barrage of missiles and flares they aimed at Milan goalkeeper Nelson Dida, securing the Champions League crowd ban they've just finished serving, provoked a far-reaching reform of stadium security in Italy. Now, hopefully, their treatment of Messina's Marc Zoro might have the same effect on Italy's attempts to tackle stadium racism.
For anyone who doesn't know the story, a quick recap: Sunday afternoon's match between Messina and Internazionale was marred by monkey chants and other racist abuse aimed at the Ivory Coast defender by sections of the away support. A quarter of an hour into the second half, Zoro decided he'd had enough, picked up the ball and approached the referee to request that the game be suspended.
There followed the curious scene of Inter's Brazilian striker Adriano desperately trying to drag Zoro back by the shirt to stop him reaching the official. When these attempts failed, the subsequent sideline conference between the referee and Zoro was interrupted by Adriano and two other Inter players, Obafemi Martins and Marco Materazzi, who convinced Zoro to play on.
"They were very kind" said Marc afterwards. "Martins and Adriano both said that this kind of thing happens to them a lot too, and not to let it provoke me. But they seemed more concerned with getting the game restarted and avoiding any complications than anything else. I came back on to avoid causing them problems." The final whistle saw Zoro's story flash all over Italy. Gestures of solidarity came thick and fast, the most curious of which saw Sunday night's big football show on state television, La Domenica Sportiva, broadcasting its opening minutes in black and white.
The league, bless, has announced a five-minute delay to all this weekend's kick-offs, to allow players to protest against racism. It should go without saying that none of that will make much difference - they often kick off late anyway. Still, the volume and intensity of the reaction to Zoro's brave gesture suggests that, for once, the abuse won't end up being swept under Serie A's already bulging carpet. This kind of nonsense is nothing new and has been going on at Italian grounds for decades. Back in the 1980's it was regional racism, with the southern fans, in particular Neapolitans, the subject of choruses anywhere north of Rome ("Smell that stink, even the dogs are running. It must be the Neapolitans coming").
The league does little to counter it. So far this season, four similar cases have been met with fines. Last season, Serie B side Verona did receive a stadium ban for racist abuse of a Perugia player, but such unpleasantness is generally dismissed as an unpleasant fact of stadium life.
It's comical to think that, of the two occasions I can recall a referee actually halting play in Italy for crowd abuse, both were for banners insulting a senior league bigwig. By contrast, racist, anti-semitic banners - including the jolly Swastika some Lazio fan was waving at Empoli this Sunday - are greeted with cheery indifference.
Zoro's brave gesture may change that, having upped the ante and forced the authorities to take seriously the idea of suspending matches due to racism. It may well have opened a few player's minds too - if there is a next time, perhaps we won't see just one player walking with the others attempting to drag him back.
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Things "getting" bad.... come now truthseeker... this has been going on for years... they just used to sweep it under de carpet
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i read this article over the wknd and said hmph. today whole day i wanted to start this thread but i didn't want to start no comess. but now i have to say meh piece:
what will we do if our players are on the receiving end of this nonsense next year??
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hardly likely in such an environment where ur likely at any given game to have a mixture of thousands of different creeds from all over the world.
That's not to say small pockets might not try such antics, but i think hardly likely....
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Italy really dont seem to be gettin no better...it really disgusting. the league needs to be more strict and not accepting of this behaviour
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i read this article over the wknd and said hmph. today whole day i wanted to start this thread but i didn't want to start no comess. but now i have to say meh piece:
what will we do if our players are on the receiving end of this nonsense next year??
The same thing everybody else does do... protest. There really is nothing else that you can do until people are forced to stop their assinine behaviour.
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Hey you warriors we do not allow this shit at the Vale...........a life ban........look at your love of ME MUM, the only white boy in the side and he has told us he has the biggest ding a ling ............but honestly English fans are genually anti-racist..........Where i live in Spain they worst than the Italians
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We could say what we want about the English League, if is one thing, them FA offcials does punish man, team, and supporters for anything off-key, especially anything resembling racism. Italy and, more recently Spain, seem to not want to deal with this kind of thing, which reflects badly on their society. Imagine team getting fined a few hundred Euros in Spain for monkey chants at men like E'too. That is insulting! One team even had the balls to say the Spanish League thiefing them while not doing anything about their racist supporters. I read sometime that not all supporters are racist and that they simply see it as heckling any player, and I think this is how the authorities looking at it. Real disgusting stuff in his day and age. America does have they racial problems, but yuh doh see it in sports. Some a these European countries have no shame.
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Hey you warriors we do not allow this shit at the Vale...........a life ban........look at your love of ME MUM, the only white boy in the side and he has told us he has the biggest ding a ling ............but honestly English fans are genually anti-racist..........Where i live in Spain they worst than the Italians
that's why can't stand those other European leagues...long live the EPL!!
That's what they need to institute in the rest of Europe...LIFETIME BAN.
Man U forever!!!
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this thing going on for years in Itlay and Spain.
allyuh see the Real Sport with Brian Gumbel on HBO a couple months back when he highlight the racism issue in football and was talking to Thiery Henry. he end the segment with a white man from UEFA i believe. the man give the usual spin about their approach to racism and then Gumbel hit him with a questions, he ask him if they could really get a handle on the racism issue when all the directors are old white men and the ruling body doh even have diversity representation on the board. the man get stupid wit that one.
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We could say what we want about the English League, if is one thing, them FA offcials does punish man, team, and supporters for anything off-key, especially anything resembling racism.
It wasn't always like this though..england today is a reaction to racism in the terraces decades ago...as they have undergone a ideological revolution, so too will europe with the help of the rest of the world, but let's not act like it was non existent in england previously.
There are still some who remain...case in point the abuse dwight was subjected to when blackburn played birmingham last year... :-\
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Yes but be realistic Dwight was abused by 2 nobheads in 28.000 crowd and will not go there again Banned for life.........England is cleaning up its act ...........BOYS credit were it due
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yea, it's largely been stamped out, but my pt was not to deny that it did exist at one pt as it does right now in europe......
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If is one thing I glad for is that them thing for the most part doh exist in Trinidad especially in sport.
Birchall is ah man come and fit in normal normal on ah predominantly black team.
I cyah 4king stand racism dread and this is something that does go on all the time. What does get meh even more irate is the level of dotishness with them fans. You belittling a player for being black but yuh 2 biggest guns up top black. So much so one from Africa and he black no ass and the next one from Brasil. Why yuh doh be racial towards them to. That is jes stupid dread. I think is that they cyah find fault with the man he playing good. he eh spitting on nobody and doing ah set ah shit in the public eye so bess we call him nigga.
(http://www.wldcup.com/pictures/2005_11/40754_33332_1.jpg)
Lazio supporters display a huge racist banner at Rome's Olympic Stadium in April 2001.
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Well disgruntled you make a valid point and in Trini case you in Birchie The biggest ding a ling in the Trini squad.............only white boy.........and as you and numerous people say................no problem.........this has got to be good for rascism on a local and world wide front as the press will make a fuss over.........typical storyline.....low league player do good in WC side. This boy in months now knows his roots are with Trini and no problem with the Black or White Issue is proud to be a Trini............AND according to our feed back here in England ............ME MUM is
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but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit
After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that
football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism
what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race
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My 2 cents
1. Racism is not a football issue. It's a societal issue....
2. Football matches just provide a public forum for expressing racial feelings, thoughts etc......
3. You can't stop racism by censoring people's words and feelings. Taking down banners and fining clubs for racial slurs and abuse might hide some of it, and prevent some players from being offended or being uncomfortable......but it's just putting a band-aid on a cancer.
4. It's neither FIFA's duty nor the football club's duty to stop racism. They can only do their best to foster an environment of professionalism in which everyone is treated fairly and feels comfortable.....In the real world that we live in without censorhip, it is very difficult.
5. The only real power that FIFA, football bodies, and clubs have in fighting racism directly is by implementing inclusive and non-discriminatory practices in employment and governance (something which I think almost every corporation in this day and age does).......
6. Racism should not offend only minority players...it should offend all players......In fact I believe a more powerful message would be sent if a white player/white players in Europe were to actively rebel against racism. Sure minority players are affected, but when when a significant number of white players start expressing their distaste for racism as well.......then the football fraternity would seem more unified.....and it won't just be the usual case of the "oppressed" player complaining.
7. At the end of the day, the players just need to keep playing. Minority players need to stay strong, keep playing, perform well & be role models. Touching moments like Zoro's are good for the story books but unfortunately may not change much.......As a minority in a racist environment, the only power you have is to gain respect is through the content of your character and excellence in your profession......
8. Globalization, education, tolerance and a gradual acceptance of diversity are part of the very very very very slow societal evolution process that will end racism..........until then the players just need to keep playing.......
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My 2 cents
1. Racism is not a football issue. It's a societal issue....
2. Football matches just provide a public forum for expressing racial feelings, thoughts etc......
3. You can't stop racism by censoring people's words and feelings. Taking down banners and fining clubs for racial slurs and abuse might hide some of it, and prevent some players from being offended or being uncomfortable......but it's just putting a band-aid on a cancer.
4. It's neither FIFA's duty nor the football club's duty to stop racism. They can only do their best to foster an environment of professionalism in which everyone is treated fairly and feels comfortable.....In the real world that we live in without censorhip, it is very difficult.
5. The only real power that FIFA, football bodies, and clubs have in fighting racism directly is by implementing inclusive and non-discriminatory practices in employment and governance (something which I think almost every corporation in this day and age does).......
6. Racism should not offend only minority players...it should offend all players......In fact I believe a more powerful message would be sent if a white player/white players in Europe were to actively rebel against racism. Sure minority players are affected, but when when a significant number of white players start expressing their distaste for racism as well.......then the football fraternity would seem more unified.....and it won't just be the usual case of the "oppressed" player complaining.
7. At the end of the day, the players just need to keep playing. Minority players need to stay strong, keep playing, perform well & be role models. Touching moments like Zoro's are good for the story books but unfortunately may not change much.......As a minority in a racist environment, the only power you have is to gain respect is through the content of your character and excellence in your profession......
8. Globalization, education, tolerance and a gradual acceptance of diversity are part of the very very very very slow societal evolution process that will end racism..........until then the players just need to keep playing.......
# 6 is a boss point. They have to say enough is enough..lead the way.
Must be very hard on non white players though..
Maybe it's time to start taking away the forum these fools abuse. Close door matches..and maybe, the man who normally stands next to them while they are chanting or whatever will finally say..listen..this is not good for the game...because of you, we will all have to suffer and not see the games we want...
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I remember some years ago Ginola get in ah fight with ah man cause he say something racist to ah member of he team.
Kicker I understand what yuh saying and yuh making sense. but this is the game we love and we cyah have ah handfull ah ass spoling it for everybody. Yeah is ah social issue and even that I think FIFA could start some grassroots programs in them same troubled spots and try and root out the racism but that may just be wishfull thinking.
FIFA and UEFA need to get tougher on this shit dread. If you could ban Inter for 4 games because they was pelting flares then they could ban the sdie for 4 games for racial abuse. Cause in this case sticks and stones may break your bones and racial abuse does hurt to.
Not to mention the 2010 world cup going and be in Afica aplace that is infamous for racism. I think FIFA should really do something between now and then to stamp it out on ah global scale.
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I remember some years ago Ginola get in ah fight with ah man cause he say something racist to ah member of he team.
Kicker I understand what yuh saying and yuh making sense. but this is the game we love and we cyah have ah handfull ah ass spoling it for everybody. Yeah is ah social issue and even that I think FIFA could start some grassroots programs in them same troubled spots and try and root out the racism but that may just be wishfull thinking.
FIFA and UEFA need to get tougher on this shit dread. If you could ban Inter for 4 games because they was pelting flares then they could ban the sdie for 4 games for racial abuse. Cause in this case sticks and stones may break your bones and racial abuse does hurt to.
Not to mention the 2010 world cup going and be in Afica aplace that is infamous for racism. I think FIFA should really do something between now and then to stamp it out on ah global scale.
Yeah well FIFA can probably do more to try to clamp racism out of the stadia......but I'm just not sure how effective that would be in light of the bigger problem............
What FIFA is doing or can do at the grassroots level can help (that's why I used the "directly" in point 5)....but even that.......not sure how effective it would be globally.
It's just a really difficult situation, and I think it would be almost unfair to put the sole onus on FIFA to deal with a situation that is neither exclusive to nor caused by the sport. Football by itself has built bridges and fostered a certain degree of racial unity across the globe..........Individuals and maybe other organizations need to step up and take some social responsibility for a problem that just happens to fall in Football's back yard...
my opinion
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The nature of the game is emotional and things happen and one may react in a way on the field or in the stands that they may not react outside of that environment. Racism will never go away any particularly among white Europeans and I accept that but the abuse is just plain obscenely wrong and FIFA and UEFA and domestic authories can do something about it.
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but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit
After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that
football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism
what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race
Disgruntled hit the nail right on de head. FIFA need to impose heavier fines on the teams whose fans are guilty of this. Further, they should start ducking points from teams that do that. When it starts to hurt where it matters most, then clubs will start to take more draconian measures to stamp out such bigotry. Ah feel good when that Blackburn fan was charged and fined for taunting Yorke. The English league leading the way, in terms of not allowing such ignorance to ruin the world's game.
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this thing going on for years in Itlay and Spain.
allyuh see the Real Sport with Brian Gumbel on HBO a couple months back when he highlight the racism issue in football and was talking to Thiery Henry. he end the segment with a white man from UEFA i believe. the man give the usual spin about their approach to racism and then Gumbel hit him with a questions, he ask him if they could really get a handle on the racism issue when all the directors are old white men and the ruling body doh even have diversity representation on the board. the man get stupid wit that one.
So wuh allyuh tink cause Latin America & the Caribbean to be so? Yuh tink "whitey" go give black man ah break jus so? Nah happen sah. Dem people from the Iberian Peninsula were always racist pigs...Shadow was right, Columbus lie! They will never learn, buh black man mus keep on jammin! In Brazil dey have over 240 gradations of color...and if yuh black yuh always at the bottom...yuh tink the KKK eh living in Italy and Spain too? Is Europe dey come from. I really embarassed for people without pigmentation in dey skin :-[
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Kicker I agree with your thoughts about racism being outside of FIFA's scope.
However, what takes place on the field and in the stadium does fall within their realm.
While they may be unable to KO racism, they will be able to cut out all of this blatant ignorance that takes place during games.
Ban spectators who engage in this activity, ban crowds completely like they have done before and force the players to play in an empty stadium.
If they start hitting the clubs in their pockets, the clubs themselves will be forced to begin stamping this shit out.
Nothing pisses me off more than racism, and ppl who you know that act like they don't know you.
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All this is why I hope an African team cut Italy tail come next year.
I say large fines and closed-door games for the clubs, and point deductions for repeated offences.
Also the clubs should be made to implement anti-racism ad campaigns if they are problem spots.
Fines and bans for players who commit offences.
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My 2 cents
1. Racism is not a football issue. It's a societal issue....
2. Football matches just provide a public forum for expressing racial feelings, thoughts etc......
3. You can't stop racism by censoring people's words and feelings. Taking down banners and fining clubs for racial slurs and abuse might hide some of it, and prevent some players from being offended or being uncomfortable......but it's just putting a band-aid on a cancer.
4. It's neither FIFA's duty nor the football club's duty to stop racism. They can only do their best to foster an environment of professionalism in which everyone is treated fairly and feels comfortable.....In the real world that we live in without censorhip, it is very difficult.
5. The only real power that FIFA, football bodies, and clubs have in fighting racism directly is by implementing inclusive and non-discriminatory practices in employment and governance (something which I think almost every corporation in this day and age does).......
6. Racism should not offend only minority players...it should offend all players......In fact I believe a more powerful message would be sent if a white player/white players in Europe were to actively rebel against racism. Sure minority players are affected, but when when a significant number of white players start expressing their distaste for racism as well.......then the football fraternity would seem more unified.....and it won't just be the usual case of the "oppressed" player complaining.
7. At the end of the day, the players just need to keep playing. Minority players need to stay strong, keep playing, perform well & be role models. Touching moments like Zoro's are good for the story books but unfortunately may not change much.......As a minority in a racist environment, the only power you have is to gain respect is through the content of your character and excellence in your profession......
8. Globalization, education, tolerance and a gradual acceptance of diversity are part of the very very very very slow societal evolution process that will end racism..........until then the players just need to keep playing.......
I think that your 6th point was the most valid. Back when Jackie Robinson came into the Big Leagues he experienced the same kind of treatment. It was only when his white teammates show solidarity with him that things began to change. Like you said, ultimately, the players have to keep playing and excelling...and have thick skins for the time being.
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This weekend Lazio's team captain Paolo Di Canio showed the fascistic saluation again towards the Lazio Fans....
He had done the same in January before in the match against AS Rome and received a € 10.000 fine....
Anybody still believes Lazio and Di Canio are not racists / nazis? >:(
Here's another proof
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,390019,00.html
Just check the picture.
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People still think Lazio not racist? They openly racist..they used to boo their own black players. Next year in germany, I think we safe against the English, Swedes and Paraguay regarding racism. Paraguay I could see gettign fired up and saying things but they will say that to anybody regardless of race...just hadda hope men like Whitley, Gray (and hardest if he make it) could keep their cool. And I like Wayne Rooney as a player eh, but I could see him saying just about anythign when he get vex...
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kicker I agree wid you 100%. until racism is wiped out from society as a whole it will continue to be displayed in all areas including sports.
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And I like Wayne Rooney as a player eh, but I could see him saying just about anythign when he get vex...
yeah he look like Nigger go slip out he mouth easy easy if Dog tackle him hard.
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Funny thing is that them Italians have black in them too
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Funny thing is that them Italians have black in them too
They just like a lot of trinis who does pretend to be white.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
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but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit
After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that
football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism
what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race
Yuh know ah rel vex! Allyuh songing as doh allyuh eh know dis racist ting in football occurring all the time. Allyuh know why? Is Pele dey hate because he is ah black man what dey refer to as zambos (Black Sambo)....and allyuh know dat Pele doh make joke. Is black people time tuh rule the ball and dey fraid...because black and mixtures of blackness (hybrid vigour) taking the podium in almost every sport...I rel embarassed fuh white people well, except we own boy ME MUM :-[
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but FIFA and UEFA does encourage the shit
After that incident with Real Madrid and with the spanish national coach they should ah clamp down hardcore on that
football is marketed as the beautifull game yet the ugliest thing is racism
what even worse if you call the top 10 footballers in the world the majority will be black or some other race
a link to a Garth Crooks story on football racism:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/default.stm#
Same page with the story on "me mum"
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Funny thing is that them Italians have black in them too
please......that talk is as useless as a knife in a gun fight. black in them my a$$. Even if at some point in history, you could make claims that there was some "non-white" insurgence in the mediterranean Europe, that eh changing the price of rice when it comes to self perception and identity........
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This weekend Lazio's team captain Paolo Di Canio showed the fascistic saluation again towards the Lazio Fans....
He had done the same in January before in the match against AS Rome and received a € 10.000 fine....
Anybody still believes Lazio and Di Canio are not racists / nazis? >:(
Here's another proof
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,390019,00.html
Just check the picture.
here's another link (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/12/D8EERSNG0.html) similar but in english.
from this, it seems the underlying issues are more about politics.
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Racisim always exiisted and will continue to do so
The truth of the matter is that Italians French Spaniards and Portuguese are not considered Europeans because of the African influence in these places in an earlier time
The reality is when ever the man`s role or authority is threatened,this is his way of retaliating
I get a kick when I see this happenening in those places as it only highlights the level of thier ignorance
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The truth of the matter is that Italians French Spaniards and Portuguese are not considered Europeans because of the African influence in these places in an earlier time
You should be careful not to preface such a retarded statement by "the truth of the matter"
Not considered Europeans by whom ?
Maybe if you ask an extremist radical Nazi........or someone being cynical or overly technical just to make a point......
Some of the Mediterranean Euro cultures have to some extent an Arab/North African influence (at times noticeable through physical features)...........but by and large, especially now in modern times Italians, Spanish, Portuguese etc... are considered Europeans, (not to mention THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES EUROPEAN).........
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The truth of the matter is that Italians French Spaniards and Portuguese are not considered Europeans because of the African influence in these places in an earlier time
The reality is when ever the man`s role or authority is threatened,this is his way of retaliating
I get a kick when I see this happenening in those places as it only highlights the level of thier ignorance
Sorry, but that is not reality.....it is socio-political agenda that has only some basis in truth. A person's race is part biological, part social construct/perception. Of course (and this is especially true in the absence of non-whites) there is a loose 'hierarchy' amongst Europeans...but that is based on appearance as well as economic factors. European migration and the immigration of non-whites into Europe has essentially killed this ideology amongst the masses (especially our generation). It is a myth to think that all Spaniards have moorish blood or that all Italians have dark hair and skin, just as it is a myth to think all Norwegians have blond hair and blue eyes. I am not trying to rebuff you...there are those who will always believe in what you say...but it is no longer the common perception.
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I have never heard anyone dispute that Italians, French, Spaniards and Portuguese are European.
They most definitely are.
Ppl need to stop talking bull$h*t on dis site dred, they are only embarrassing themselves.
Arenas is still a jack@$$
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Arenas is still a jack@$$
:rotfl:
yeah he look like Nigger go slip out he mouth easy easy if Dog tackle him hard.
Allyuh good yes....Rooney might be the coolest cat out there....The man even bawl in an interview that he is a avid listener of hip-hop.......looks can be deceiving.....lewwe not hit the man that ranks jusso jusso.
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Allyuh good yes....Rooney might be the coolest cat out there....The man even bawl in an interview that he is a avid listener of hip-hop.......looks can be deceiving.....lewwe not hit the man that ranks jusso jusso.
that is all well and good
if yuh ask ah racist in the statest who is they favourite basketballer they go tell yuh Jordan that eh have nothing to do with it
he look like he go shave he head and tattoo a swastika on he arm and lynch dog and tallman if he get jam too hard
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Allyuh good yes....Rooney might be the coolest cat out there....The man even bawl in an interview that he is a avid listener of hip-hop.......looks can be deceiving.....lewwe not hit the man that ranks jusso jusso.
that is all well and good
if yuh ask ah racist in the statest who is they favourite basketballer they go tell yuh Jordan that eh have nothing to do with it
he look like he go shave he head and tattoo a swastika on he arm and lynch dog and tallman if he get jam too hard
nah..is Di Canio you talkin' bout ;D
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Blatter today announced that Di Canio will be punished by FIFA if he will be punished by the Italian football federation. He basically calls Di Canio a racist.
He also thinks about relegating racial clubs like Lazio!
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Blatter today announced that Di Canio will be punished by FIFA if he will be punished by the Italian football federation. He basically calls Di Canio a racist.
He also thinks about relegating racial clubs like Lazio!
Yeah FIFA have to work with the various Federations to put measures in place to deter this behaviour. It is a CANCER to the beautiful game........I doh care, if your supporters are beahving like animals and donkeys , the farmer ( club) have to rein in these fans. I think they are in the minority , but until CLUBS start getting sevre bans ( LIKE playing in a n empty stadium). This will continue to happen.
For example Aragones loose talk to Reyes referring to Henry as @$^ have no place in football.And only reason it was known wascause a reporter piced up the talk in passing. Yeah hewas motivating Reyes saying he better that HENry, but he had no right to use that language. As a coach they should FIRE he cat. I know FIFAwah Henry and Aragones to meet. However if I was HENRy i would shit him up intellectually and make him feel small.....We haveto stamp this out the game
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]http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYjk0aWtjBF9TAzk1ODYzNTkwBHNlYwN0aA--?slug=reu-spainracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYjk0aWtjBF9TAzk1ODYzNTkwBHNlYwN0aA--?slug=reu-spainracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns[/i)
Atletico fined 6,000 euros for fans' racist abuse
MADRID, Dec 21 (Reuters) - Atletico Madrid have been fined 6,000 euros ($7,132) by the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) after a section of their fans hurled racial abuse at Espanyol goalkeeper Carlos Kameni in a league match last month.
Although the abuse was not noted in referee Arturo Dauden Ibanez's match report, the RFEF said it acted after a complaint from the government-run Anti-violence Commission which estimated that some 500 fans had been involved in the incidents.
Atletico, who were fined for similar offences last season, said that they had done everything in their power to stop the abuse.
Spain increased the punishments given to clubs for racist abuse in July and Primera Liga sides can now be fined between 6,000 and 18,000 euros depending on the number of fans involved and the action taken to deal with the incident.
FIFA president Sepp Blatter on Tuesday called for a tougher approach to the problem, including the possibility of docking points and excluding clubs from competitions for persistent breaches.
Separately, Kameni's club Espanyol have opened an investigation into the Cameroon international's complaints that he has been racially abused by some of the club's own fans in home matches.
"It's incredible that they jeer you in your own stadium," he told Spanish sports daily Sport on Tuesday.
"It is understandable if the fans complain when the team doesn't play well, but they can't do these racist acts again and again. I've had enough."
6000 Euros? .... are you kidding me?
First of all the RFEF encourages racism rather than thwarts it with their half hearted attempts to sweep the mess their fans created under the carpet.
Instead of 6000 Euros as a stiffer penalty, teams should be charged all the money from their gate receipts AND docked any points they picked up in that game. As a final nail in the coffin, they should also be mandated to play their next home game in front of an empty stadium. That is what I call a stiffer penalty.
Also, if FIFA wants to get serious, then they must follow through on Blatter's call and ban all these teams from European club competitions.
This is far worse than match-fixing and must be dealt with in an appropriate manner. If a player/ official can get banned for life for accepting money as part of a match-fixing arrangement, then those who racially abuse players must not get away with a slap on the wrist.
If teams cannot control their fans behaviour, then they dont deserve to have the so-called fans following them around.
6000 Euros is probably what each one of us will spend next summer in Europe. The RFEF is pure BS and I wish all their teams suffer in every competition until they straighten their program.
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6000 euroos?
is more like an encouragement to do it again
strange fifa,real strange
i can remember quite expensive commercials with henry,nistelrooij,ronaldo
against racism
and now a fine of 6000 euroos
a joke
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That is not even the salary of any of Athletico's starting players.
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Di Canio just 'exhibitionist'
From correspondents in Rome
December 21, 2005
ITALY Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has rejected suggestions that Paolo Di Canio is a fascist, saying the Lazio striker is simply an exhibitionist.
Di Canio was banned for one game on Monday and fined 10,000 euros ($12,000) for making a raised-arm, fascist-style salute in a Serie A match at the weekend.
His gesture has been widely condemned by politicians, players, fans and Jewish groups, but Berlusconi leapt to his defence overnight, saying the 37-year-old is simply misunderstood.
"Di Canio is an exhibitionist. His salute didn't have any significance," said Berlusconi.
"He's a good lad," added the prime minister, who owns Serie A team AC Milan.
Sepp Blatter, president of football's governing body FIFA, said players making fascist salutes should be banned from the game for life.
Di Canio has defended his gesture, which he has made at at least three Serie A matches this year, saying it was not intended as a political statement and that he will continue to acknowledge his fans in whatever way he chooses.
Lazio fans are known for their hard-right sympathies.
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Hislop disappointed with Di Canio
sportinglife.com
West Ham goalkeeper Shaka Hislop feels betrayed and bitterly disappointed by the controversial behaviour of his former team-mate Paolo Di Canio.
Hislop, a committed anti-racism campaigner, indicated his friendship with Di Canio is over after the Italian was suspended for one match and fined £7,000 for aiming a fascist salute at supporters.
Di Canio, who misses Lazio's Serie A match at Lecce this evening, labelled the suspension "unjust" and insisted his salute "has nothing to do with with any political ideologies".
The 37-year-old saluted his fans the same way during a Rome derby last season, and at Livorno last week. He insists it is a greeting which dates back to ancient Rome.
"I will always salute that way because it gives me a sense of belonging to my people," he said recently.
But Hislop does not buy former Hammer Di Canio's explanation, given the straight-armed salute now stands for something entirely different.
"I am very disappointed by it. Paolo never impressed me as that kind of person when he was here at West Ham," said Hislop.
"We got on very well. He got on well with my wife and my kids and to see him making the headlines for his actions disappoints me greatly because of what those gestures mean and the wider effect of it.
"Paolo certainly was someone I considered a friend who I liked a lot, so I am very disappointed."
Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi jumped to Di Canio's defence on Wednesday, insisting the striker is not a fascist and simply misunderstood.
"Di Canio is an exhibitionist. His salute didn't have any significance. He's a good lad," said Berlusconi.
But Hislop cannot dismiss Di Canio's behaviour as quickly and easily as that.
"I feel particularly disheartened by it. It is one thing to see someone do it and take a stand against it," he said.
"But when it is someone you certainly felt was a friend it has a much longer-lasting effect."
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Di Canio is ah waste of time and space
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di canio = has been seeking attention.
pathetic.
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yeah but I dont think the man meant anything racist by what he did because if he was always so nice to shaka wife and kids and never seemed like that then it might've been taking out of context because yuh doh just turn racist just so, is either yoh is or yuh aint
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di canio = has been seeking attention.
pathetic.
Yup he is seeking attention,,,,,just like antonio cassano wud do ne thing to be in the publics eye bcuz they dont feel they get enough praise for their "talent"
On the other hand i dont believe di canio is a racist
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breds,
it have plenty racist who eh big man or woman enough to say what they think about yuh to yuh face. they will smile at yuh and do like allyuh cool. then when they with their people, is a different story.
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I agree he know he best days done past and is time for him to retire and he just seeking attention but ah doh think he racist but then again yuh never know yes
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the salute that di canio does is an old ROMAN war salute meaning victory....it was then adapted by neo nazi.. hitler etc etc....so seeing dat di canio is an ITALIAN....born in ROME which was at a time the heart of the ROMAN empire.....if he wants to do his historical ROMAN salute dat hitler and he boys who happen to be GERMAN stole from the ROMANS dat is his business he have a right to do it....
if micheal ballack do it den i go watch it suspect.
lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???
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the salute that di canio does is an old ROMAN war salute meaning victory....it was then adapted by neo nazi.. hitler etc etc....so seeing dat di canio is an ITALIAN....born in ROME which was at a time the heart of the ROMAN empire.....if he wants to do his historical ROMAN salute dat hitler and he boys who happen to be GERMAN stole from the ROMANS dat is his business he have a right to do it....
if micheal ballack do it den i go watch it suspect.
lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???
nah... I don't agree. The salute USED to signify a greeting among Roman soldiers. Today, it means something else entrirely; a fascist (and racist) gesture. DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY. Worse yet, it is adopted by the Utlras of Lazio, and well, we could write a book about them and their racism/fascism.
Also, look, DiCanio as an adult has a choice; he could make the salute and offend a large cross-section of the world's society, or he could abstain and show his loyalty to his club some other way. It is a simple, adult choice to make. We live in an inclusive society; we can either play by the rules or not. He has chosen the latter.
My 2 rupiah...
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the salute that di canio does is an old ROMAN war salute meaning victory....it was then adapted by neo nazi.. hitler etc etc....so seeing dat di canio is an ITALIAN....born in ROME which was at a time the heart of the ROMAN empire.....if he wants to do his historical ROMAN salute dat hitler and he boys who happen to be GERMAN stole from the ROMANS dat is his business he have a right to do it....
if micheal ballack do it den i go watch it suspect.
lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???
Teflon ah cyar agree wid dah one. Di Canio should know better(if he's not a racist). Plus the Italians and the Nazis were allies during WWII. He should definitely know better.
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lol by the way anybody ever notice how alan shearer celebrates a goal ???
Shearer's celebration is completely different. He raises his hand almost vertically upwards (the forearm slightly bent) and leaves it upraised with the palm facing forward. The Facsist salute calls for first touching the chest with a closed palm and then extending the forearm stiffly with the palm facing downward and then (possibly) touching the chest again... no comparison, I'm afraid. Don't bring Shearer into this.
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Shaka once again showing his Class. Stand by your morals boss ..... what right ... is right ...... Di Canio is an ass :beermug:
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DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.
cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
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DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.
cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense ;) )
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He has to make sure the people he has directed the salute to do not interpret it as an endorsement of fascism.....mostly the supporters. If he doing the salute and people in the stands doing it with the NEGATIVE meaning in their minds then he would be foolish to continue. He can't turn a blind eye if it incites something.
If his purpose was to reclaim the gesture from the fascists maybe.....but is a bit dubious that was his intention BEFORE he was criticized.
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Italy on a whole has to do something about the racial problem.I was looking for this artical but couldnt find it but i did a little while ago.
Racist chants almost halt Serie A game
MILAN, Nov 27 (Reuters) -
Messina's Ivory Coast defender Zoro threatened to halt a Serie A game on Sunday after suffering racial abuse from travelling Inter Milan supporters.
Zoro picked up the ball in the 66th minute and headed off the field towards the fourth official before other players, including Inter's Brazilian forward Adriano and Nigerian striker Obafemi Martins, persuaded him to continue.
"I was treated badly and can't have that. Away from home they can do what they want, I'm used to that, but not at my home ground. I took the responsibility and took the ball to the fourth official," he told Italy's Sky Sport.
Reports said the Inter fans had made 'monkey noises' when Zoro had touched the ball.
"These are people who don't love this game but they need to learn that we aren't animals and I want some respect. They travel many kilometres to follow their team and then they do these idiocies," said Zoro.
The defender said that Adriano and Martins had apologised for the behaviour of the Inter supporters but asked him to continue the match.
"They apologised to me for the fans and told me that they often have to put up with it as well and asked me not to stop the game," said Zoro.
He said it was by no means the first time he has had to cope with racism during his eight years in Italian football. "It has happened many times, always, wherever I go. But today I couldn't put up with it," he said.
Inter president Giacinto Facchetti apologised for the behaviour of the fans: "Unfortunately these are things that happen often but Inter has always stood against racism," he said.
Parma's Senagalese defender Ferdinand Coly said he wanted the game's governing body FIFA to take stronger action over racism.
"I want to ask FIFA to do something -- we are just players who have to play there isn't a lot we can do, they have to do more," he said.
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They ban unruly fans from games in England don't they?
With face recognition software.
Do the same for this. It will probably be very easy to identify the culprits especially when they are the opposing team's fans. At the very least throw them out of the stadium....it would be nice to hit them with a baton.
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Inter president Giacinto Facchetti apologised for the behaviour of the fans: "Unfortunately these are things that happen often but Inter has always stood against racism,"
If they stand against racism then do something about it. Don't bleat on about it being "unfortunate" and "these things happen"
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it would be nice to hit them with a baton.
:cheers: :rotfl:
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DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.
cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense ;) )
the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.
to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.
all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
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Di canio has to know exactly what that salute means these days whether he looking for attention or not is irrelevant.. It is used as a racist salute and if he isnt a racist then he wouldnt be doin it..
Well done for Shaka standing up for what he believes
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I have encountered a lot of people who say the wrong thing and defend it by saying that they don't mean it in the bad way that other people do.
They just do it among friends or because its funny.
The problem with this is that you give strength to those with ill-intentions by repeating their actions, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR INTENT IS.
Every repetition of the word/action is a missed opportunity rebuke it as wrong and disgusting. It is even worse than turning a blind eye. It is an admission that you do not see a problem or believe that these things are wrong and so it is oksy to be associated with them.
The origin of the act or word is less relevant than its current accepted meaning or significance. It has been adopted by racists, it is a racist symbol, if there was any debate about this there would be people other than Di Canio doing it and defending it.
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As a youth, Di Canio was a member of Lazio's racist and violent Ultras. Lazios ultras are well known for their racist beliefs and the number of black players to represent Lazio can be counted on one hand - and I don't mean at the moment, I mean ever. So for anyone to suggest that the salute was patriotic rather than than racist is silly.
Di Canio is an exhibitionist, he always has been. But by making the gesture he will galvanise lazio's racist element even further. No doubt he will be seen as a martyr by his supporters, even if the rest of us see him as an idiot.
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As a youth, Di Canio was a member of Lazio's racist and violent Ultras. Lazios ultras are well known for their racist beliefs.....
What he intended to communicate is less important than the message people interpreted it as especially if the club may have to deal with the subsequent behaviour/attitude of the fans.
If those Ultras see it as some incitement/endorsement of a racist ideology u would be a fool to use the gesture regardless of what you think of it.
Can he claim ignorance of that consequence?
Probably not.
And I disagree with the notion that football is powerless to fight racism.
Any arena that can be used to demonstrate to the public the ideal way to handle racism is of great benefit....especaily when you have millions of young people witnessing what happens when someone makes monkey calls to a player or a player themselves crosses the line.
Of course the punishment must be proportional and yesterday's villain may actually prove to be a valuable asset...especially if they are trying to repair their image with hopefully some new found perspective.
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DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.
cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense ;) )
the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.
to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.
all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree with your analysis. It has NOTHING to do with politcal correctness when someone is offended by a salute that is effectively racist. You talk about symbolism, but isn't Paolo's very use of the gesture a symolic way of "connecting" with his "people" (by the way, he has overtly said this)? If you ask me, the PC instantiation here is the idea of "I can do what I want, no matter if the wider society is offended". Believe me, I (and many others on this board) live in a culture that eschews the rights of a just society in favour of the "rights" of the individual. It is all very touchy-feely and nice and theoretical to talk about racism being a societal issuse and all (an obvious and spurious argument), but what are you going to do about it? Nothing or something? It is (again) all well and good to talk about the wonderful societal changes that must be made to fix the problem, but in the meantime, we have a match on Saturday and jackasses on the terraces who want to take advantage of the weakness of the officials that allows ugly racist behaviour.
This is not rocket science, either you act or you don't.
I'm quite surprised at your definition of PC. They have a saying here about being able to ignore the elephant in the room; that my friend is PC and in this case, Paolo is the elephant.
And I'm sorry, we can't give the man the benefit of the doubt, he has already nailed his colours to the mast in a VERY public manner. It is RUBBISH to talk about Paolo publicly disavowing racism. Have you ever heard a racist calling himself racist? I live in the South, where today peolpe talk about "the South will rises again" and when you (a Black person) question them about what they mean, they get very quiet. Anyone can disavow racism with words; ask yourself, will Shaka make that salute (even in joke)?
He(Paolo) identifies with the jackasses; this is public record. I think JDB spoke about people who do the wrong thing and then justify it by saying that "I didn't mean it that way" disingenious at best, dishonest and dangerous at worst.
Again, this isn't rocket science or a Social Sciences thesis; if you offend society, you have to pay the price. I'm not interested in singing "Kum By Ya" with Paolo and his ilk.
My 2 dinars...
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Italian prime minister Silvio Berlusconi jumped to Di Canio's defence on Wednesday, insisting the striker is not a fascist and simply misunderstood.
"Di Canio is an exhibitionist. His salute didn't have any significance. He's a good lad," said Berlusconi.
These Europeans will never change.
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the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.
to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.
all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm
i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
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the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.
to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.
all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm
i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
filho, i'm not the type to get emotional and worked up over gestures and try to get them banned when people use them. there is a separation between semiotics and semantics that i'm trying to get at. i'm willing to give di canio the benefit of the doubt with regards to the semantic meaning of his salute.
it's interesting that so many people here are saying that the more "recent" public/cultural meaning of the one arm salute takes precedence over what di canio might actually mean to say. on what grounds? when someone makes statements like this that aren't based in fact or logically arrived at but rather on their own values, i know that i should use my own value system, not theirs. i have confidence in my own assessment of the situation to decide what meaning i will attribute the gesture. perhaps you are a mind reader and "really" know the score with di canio, but perhaps also you are easily lead and have a weak spine, or really believe that you should have the meaning of a gesture dictated to you.
well, i hope i didn't offend your delicate sensibilities too much. :beermug:
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I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree with your analysis. It has NOTHING to do with politcal correctness when someone is offended by a salute that is effectively racist. You talk about symbolism, but isn't Paolo's very use of the gesture a symolic way of "connecting" with his "people" (by the way, he has overtly said this)? If you ask me, the PC instantiation here is the idea of "I can do what I want, no matter if the wider society is offended". Believe me, I (and many others on this board) live in a culture that eschews the rights of a just society in favour of the "rights" of the individual. It is all very touchy-feely and nice and theoretical to talk about racism being a societal issuse and all (an obvious and spurious argument), but what are you going to do about it? Nothing or something? It is (again) all well and good to talk about the wonderful societal changes that must be made to fix the problem, but in the meantime, we have a match on Saturday and jackasses on the terraces who want to take advantage of the weakness of the officials that allows ugly racist behaviour.
This is not rocket science, either you act or you don't.
very impressive. either "you act or don't act" - to what ends? the only reason FIFA is doing anything is to look good. you act like they should get the f*cking nobel peace prize for their anti-racism campaign. you are right, it's not rocket science. IT'S BUSINESS.
I'm quite surprised at your definition of PC. They have a saying here about being able to ignore the elephant in the room; that my friend is PC and in this case, Paolo is the elephant.
And I'm sorry, we can't give the man the benefit of the doubt, he has already nailed his colours to the mast in a VERY public manner. It is RUBBISH to talk about Paolo publicly disavowing racism. Have you ever heard a racist calling himself racist? I live in the South, where today peolpe talk about "the South will rises again" and when you (a Black person) question them about what they mean, they get very quiet. Anyone can disavow racism with words; ask yourself, will Shaka make that salute (even in joke)?
see my comments to filho on the difference between semiotics and semantics. banning a player, a team, a group of fans or a gesture is a great way for FIFA to "address" the situation to appease vocal anti-racists like yourself. i guess i'm not as sensitive as you are to mere gestures. how the hell do you survive in the Deep South anyway?
He(Paolo) identifies with the jackasses; this is public record. I think JDB spoke about people who do the wrong thing and then justify it by saying that "I didn't mean it that way" disingenious at best, dishonest and dangerous at worst.
well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.
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the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.
to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.
all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm
i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
filho, i'm not the type to get emotional and worked up over gestures and try to get them banned when people use them. there is a separation between semiotics and semantics that i'm trying to get at. i'm willing to give di canio the benefit of the doubt with regards to the semantic meaning of his salute.
it's interesting that so many people here are saying that the more "recent" public/cultural meaning of the one arm salute takes precedence over what di canio might actually mean to say. on what grounds? when someone makes statements like this that aren't based in fact or logically arrived at but rather on their own values, i know that i should use my own value system, not theirs. i have confidence in my own assessment of the situation to decide what meaning i will attribute the gesture. perhaps you are a mind reader and "really" know the score with di canio, but perhaps also you are easily lead and have a weak spine, or really believe that you should have the meaning of a gesture dictated to you.
well, i hope i didn't offend your delicate sensibilities too much. :beermug:
haha....nobody is worked up. from what I have read most people here consider DiCanio a sad joke..and so do I. Stick to debating your points, which you did very well, and refrain from the personal insults. Seriously man, all dat wasn't called for and when you drop to the level of insults to make your point...you have lost the plot. If you read what I am saying I am not concerned over what the gesture means to Di Canio. He may very well be doing a 'roman salute'..but the more important issue (imo) is the effect that it will have on those it was intended for. If you believe 'his people' thought that was a roman salute...then so be it. I am of the opinion that most of the morons in the crowd had no idea what a roman salute is. answer my previous question...you would really believe him if he had raised a swastika and said he meant to bring his people good luck?. I don't have to be a mind reader to know that many of the skinhead ultras Di Canio was addressing took it as a fascist/Nazi salute and were incited and felt their ideals validated. And since they are prone to violent acts...well I find the whole incident offensive and potentially dangerous. Sometimes our responsibilities to our fellow man should supercede a personal agenda.......i realize that you are making a good point, but this is a really poor example...
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well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.
dread...you need to stop mentioing me in your posts. like i hit a nerve
I am sorry that you have such a problem with an opinion different from yours. from your repsonses it is pretty clear that you did not even grasp what I was trying to say. and what minds am I reading? you are too busy trying to win an argument. if you deflate your ego and read a little you will realize that you can stick to your opinion but still realize that otheres have some valid ideas even if they are contrary to yours
btw. it is not unrealistic to believe the 'political dimension' and 'racist diemnsion' are not entirely mutually exclusive in this instance...
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Ribbit man yuh sounding like a man who just loves to hear himself.
What DiCanio did is subject to interpretion. Either interpretation may be accurate. In the same way that you discredit "mind reading", someone could discredit your take on the situation as gullible or naive.......
What you're effectively saying is :"Di Canio said he didn't mean to be racist, so I believe him"....what makes your assesment so superior to someone else's that you feel you have to label them as spineless ?
And the self righteous trip you're on talking about your "value system" as opposed to theirs is horse sh*t........(your determination that people are easily lead or spineless)........c'mon man...you could spew that vomit to the illiterate and expect them to eat it, but you and me know that is mess......your value system is as much influenced by ancient interpretations of the gestures (and DiCanio's stated "intention") as "theirs" is influenced by the present interpretation........so it's a matter of choice.....and neither is more noble, "spineless" or "easily led" than the other.......
One of the differences between human beings and animals is our ability to use judgement and discretion to influence our actions, as opposed to relying purely on instinct. Regardless of whether Di Canio is a racist or not, he didn't exercise the necessary judgement and discretion......and as a result he offended people who looked up to him..........that's not noble....and he knows it. Racist or not he knows he was wrong, which is why he feels the need to explain himself........
In this day and age with people knowing what we know, it is not spineless or weak to be skeptical about Di Canio's intentions or even offended by his actions.......and if you're not open minded enough to see that then it's a waste having a discussion with you.
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very impressive. either "you act or don't act" - to what ends? the only reason FIFA is doing anything is to look good. you act like they should get the f*cking nobel peace prize for their anti-racism campaign. you are right, it's not rocket science. IT'S BUSINESS.
Wow.... Nobel Peace Prize??? Where did THAT come from :rotfl: I also said that is is not a Social Sciences thesis, which you are obviously holding on to. BTW, we are not talking exclusively about FIFA, we are talking about UEFA, the Italian FA, the Spanish FA etc... Are you saying that the only reason that any one of these organizations does anything is to look good, and by extension, the only reason any agent of social change does anything (no matter how small or large) is to "look good"? :rotfl: :rotfl:
see my comments to filho on the difference between semiotics and semantics. banning a player, a team, a group of fans or a gesture is a great way for FIFA to "address" the situation to appease vocal anti-racists like yourself. i guess i'm not as sensitive as you are to mere gestures. how the hell do you survive in the Deep South anyway?
Again, no one is restricting the problem/solution to FIFA. And you still have not addressed the issue of acting NOW to deny racists an avenue to express themselves. Every idiot knows that the first step is immediate action. You spend a lot of time attacking the people on this thread who disagree with your opinion, but
- you have done nothing to advance you own "argument"
- you have done nothing to effectively disprove anyone else's arguments
- you have not addressed the fundamental issue of personal responsibility and responsibility for your actions. You are too caught up in "proving" some airy-fairy Social Sciences drivel about "a societal problem" ... yawn....
- instead you have resorted to wild invective (no one else has personally attacked anyone or even used obcenity to make their point)
All this rubbish about DiCanio's personal interpretation of the salute and "mind reading" and personal value systems.... ugh. At least be original.... Kicker and others have made the (obvious) point about personal responsibility, but I guess you did not get the memo
Oh, and by the way, the reason I "survive" in the Deep South is because the US is a nation of laws, and it is ILLEGAL to openly display racist behaviour, and do you know what, a lot of people actually frown on that sort of redneck behaviour... it all starts somewhere.
well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.
You are not impressing anyone with your knowledge of the "political dimension" to the problem. To anyone who reads and has a brain, this is obvious. The question is what to do about it... geez.
Anyway, cheers and Merry Christmas to all. :beermug: :beermug:
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the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.
to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.
all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm
i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
filho, i'm not the type to get emotional and worked up over gestures and try to get them banned when people use them. there is a separation between semiotics and semantics that i'm trying to get at. i'm willing to give di canio the benefit of the doubt with regards to the semantic meaning of his salute.
it's interesting that so many people here are saying that the more "recent" public/cultural meaning of the one arm salute takes precedence over what di canio might actually mean to say. on what grounds? when someone makes statements like this that aren't based in fact or logically arrived at but rather on their own values, i know that i should use my own value system, not theirs. i have confidence in my own assessment of the situation to decide what meaning i will attribute the gesture. perhaps you are a mind reader and "really" know the score with di canio, but perhaps also you are easily lead and have a weak spine, or really believe that you should have the meaning of a gesture dictated to you.
well, i hope i didn't offend your delicate sensibilities too much. :beermug:
haha....nobody is worked up. from what I have read most people here consider DiCanio a sad joke..and so do I. Stick to debating your points, which you did very well, and refrain from the personal insults. Seriously man, all dat wasn't called for and when you drop to the level of insults to make your point...you have lost the plot. If you read what I am saying I am not concerned over what the gesture means to Di Canio. He may very well be doing a 'roman salute'..but the more important issue (imo) is the effect that it will have on those it was intended for. If you believe 'his people' thought that was a roman salute...then so be it. I am of the opinion that most of the morons in the crowd had no idea what a roman salute is. answer my previous question...you would really believe him if he had raised a swastika and said he meant to bring his people good luck?. I don't have to be a mind reader to know that many of the skinhead ultras Di Canio was addressing took it as a fascist/Nazi salute and were incited and felt their ideals validated. And since they are prone to violent acts...well I find the whole incident offensive and potentially dangerous. Sometimes our responsibilities to our fellow man should supercede a personal agenda.......i realize that you are making a good point, but this is a really poor example...
filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.
i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event. if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.
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Ribbit man yuh sounding like a man who just loves to hear himself.
What DiCanio did is subject to interpretion. Either interpretation may be accurate. In the same way that you discredit "mind reading", someone could discredit your take on the situation as gullible or naive.......
What you're effectively saying is :"Di Canio said he didn't mean to be racist, so I believe him"....what makes your assesment so superior to someone else's that you feel you have to label them as spineless ?
And the self righteous trip you're on talking about your "value system" as opposed to theirs is horse sh*t........(your determination that people are easily lead or spineless)........c'mon man...you could spew that vomit to the illiterate and expect them to eat it, but you and me know that is mess......your value system is as much influenced by ancient interpretations of the gestures (and DiCanio's stated "intention") as "theirs" is influenced by the present interpretation........so it's a matter of choice.....and neither is more noble, "spineless" or "easily led" than the other.......
One of the differences between human beings and animals is our ability to use judgement and discretion to influence our actions, as opposed to relying purely on instinct. Regardless of whether Di Canio is a racist or not, he didn't exercise the necessary judgement and discretion......and as a result he offended people who looked up to him..........that's not noble....and he knows it. Racist or not he knows he was wrong, which is why he feels the need to explain himself........
In this day and age with people knowing what we know, it is not spineless or weak to be skeptical about Di Canio's intentions or even offended by his actions.......and if you're not open minded enough to see that then it's a waste having a discussion with you.
kicker, i said "benefit of the doubt". there is still doubt. i'm not trying to rush to a conclusion - on the contrary. others like the football organizations have a need to resolve what di canio means in order to exact a punishment. but i'm willing to leave it unresolved.
from the rest of your speech i see we agree that what di canio means is key.
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very impressive. either "you act or don't act" - to what ends? the only reason FIFA is doing anything is to look good. you act like they should get the f*cking nobel peace prize for their anti-racism campaign. you are right, it's not rocket science. IT'S BUSINESS.
Wow.... Nobel Peace Prize??? Where did THAT come from :rotfl: I also said that is is not a Social Sciences thesis, which you are obviously holding on to. BTW, we are not talking exclusively about FIFA, we are talking about UEFA, the Italian FA, the Spanish FA etc... Are you saying that the only reason that any one of these organizations does anything is to look good, and by extension, the only reason any agent of social change does anything (no matter how small or large) is to "look good"? :rotfl: :rotfl:
see my comments to filho on the difference between semiotics and semantics. banning a player, a team, a group of fans or a gesture is a great way for FIFA to "address" the situation to appease vocal anti-racists like yourself. i guess i'm not as sensitive as you are to mere gestures. how the hell do you survive in the Deep South anyway?
Again, no one is restricting the problem/solution to FIFA. And you still have not addressed the issue of acting NOW to deny racists an avenue to express themselves. Every idiot knows that the first step is immediate action. You spend a lot of time attacking the people on this thread who disagree with your opinion, but
- you have done nothing to advance you own "argument"
- you have done nothing to effectively disprove anyone else's arguments
- you have not addressed the fundamental issue of personal responsibility and responsibility for your actions. You are too caught up in "proving" some airy-fairy Social Sciences drivel about "a societal problem" ... yawn....
- instead you have resorted to wild invective (no one else has personally attacked anyone or even used obcenity to make their point)
All this rubbish about DiCanio's personal interpretation of the salute and "mind reading" and personal value systems.... ugh. At least be original.... Kicker and others have made the (obvious) point about personal responsibility, but I guess you did not get the memo
Oh, and by the way, the reason I "survive" in the Deep South is because the US is a nation of laws, and it is ILLEGAL to openly display racist behaviour, and do you know what, a lot of people actually frown on that sort of redneck behaviour... it all starts somewhere.
well, JDB is probably getting tips from filho on mind reading. i've made comments in another thread already on the political dimension to this issue in italy but everyone seems to insist it's a racism problem.
You are not impressing anyone with your knowledge of the "political dimension" to the problem. To anyone who reads and has a brain, this is obvious. The question is what to do about it... geez.
Anyway, cheers and Merry Christmas to all. :beermug: :beermug:
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sorry cantona i thought you were commenting on the ruling to suspend di canio with your "act or don't act" remark. was that remark directed at a particular action in the article? what action are you referring to?
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DiCanio and others can't pick and choose the interpretation of the gesture... it IS a facist salute TODAY.
cantona, your statement above shows that political correctness has triumphed absolutely in this society.
explain... (forgive me for being dense ;) )
the salute has more than one interpretation and history from a long time. di canio is saying it's not meant to be racist or even political, but is meant to connect with the lazio fan base. he even got along well with shaka and his family. by a reasonable standard, ppl should give the man the benefit of the doubt and believe that he's not a racist. but with your statement above, it seem like that's not good enough - we have to eradicate his gesture of loyalty to appease the fans that were offended. that's definitive of political correctness - suppress expression so as not to offend anyone.
to me, it's more important that di canio disavows racism (which he has) than how he chooses to connect with his fans. we as a footballing community should keep the lines of communication open and learn to value what people MEAN rather than get offended by things like this. that is the essence of communication. instead we getting taken by symbolism.
all the measures that have been taken so far to combat racism in football have failed and will continue to fail because it's a social problem not a football problem. you could ban di canio, ban inter, give messina 3 pts, give marc zoro the trinity cross, ... that will not solve the underlying problem. they just grandstanding - trying to look like they doing something. if we really think "racism in football" has any meaning - that we could take racism and isolate it to just football - than we on the wrong path already.
I'm sorry my friend, but I cannot agree with your analysis. It has NOTHING to do with politcal correctness when someone is offended by a salute that is effectively racist. You talk about symbolism, but isn't Paolo's very use of the gesture a symolic way of "connecting" with his "people" (by the way, he has overtly said this)? If you ask me, the PC instantiation here is the idea of "I can do what I want, no matter if the wider society is offended". Believe me, I (and many others on this board) live in a culture that eschews the rights of a just society in favour of the "rights" of the individual. It is all very touchy-feely and nice and theoretical to talk about racism being a societal issuse and all (an obvious and spurious argument), but what are you going to do about it? Nothing or something? It is (again) all well and good to talk about the wonderful societal changes that must be made to fix the problem, but in the meantime, we have a match on Saturday and jackasses on the terraces who want to take advantage of the weakness of the officials that allows ugly racist behaviour.
This is not rocket science, either you act or you don't.
I'm quite surprised at your definition of PC. They have a saying here about being able to ignore the elephant in the room; that my friend is PC and in this case, Paolo is the elephant.
And I'm sorry, we can't give the man the benefit of the doubt, he has already nailed his colours to the mast in a VERY public manner. It is RUBBISH to talk about Paolo publicly disavowing racism. Have you ever heard a racist calling himself racist? I live in the South, where today peolpe talk about "the South will rises again" and when you (a Black person) question them about what they mean, they get very quiet. Anyone can disavow racism with words; ask yourself, will Shaka make that salute (even in joke)?
He(Paolo) identifies with the jackasses; this is public record. I think JDB spoke about people who do the wrong thing and then justify it by saying that "I didn't mean it that way" disingenious at best, dishonest and dangerous at worst.
Again, this isn't rocket science or a Social Sciences thesis; if you offend society, you have to pay the price. I'm not interested in singing "Kum By Ya" with Paolo and his ilk.
My 2 dinars...
This is obviously being blown way out of porportion.
Your argument of act or don't act does not hold water. Do you stop doing something because it is offensive to some people or do you simply use it when among those who do not find it offensive?
It is the same as some American gestures being offensive in other cultures. Do you stop using all together or do you simply use it in the right context when the right audience is present?
The man was using a symbol that would be understood by his fellow Romans. Seeing that it was his main audience at the time, it is understandable.
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filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.
i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event.
This is basically a "right to free speach" argument which is fine but even this right has its restrictions especially in public arenas.
With rights come responsibilities and an individual or group does not exist in a vacuum. You cannot plead ignorance to the significance of your actions in the eyes of society. If the actions are accepted as being "racist" do not expect to be labelled "Roman" by society, whatever your motivations.
If you associate with a racist faction do not expect to be considered an exception who just happens to take solidarity with them because of common identity but not common ideology.
if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.
Well if Di Canio identifies with a group that has racist chants, racist banners, uses an accepted racist salute (but only for tradional reasons) then call me judgemental but I reserve the right to label them as racists.
Shaka should be no different.
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This is obviously being blown way out of porportion.
Your argument of act or don't act does not hold water. Do you stop doing something because it is offensive to some people or do you simply use it when among those who do not find it offensive?
It is the same as some American gestures being offensive in other cultures. Do you stop using all together or do you simply use it in the right context when the right audience is present?
The man was using a symbol that would be understood by his fellow Romans. Seeing that it was his main audience at the time, it is understandable.
This argument ignores the main fact that the fans that he was addressing are a racist faction. There is no debate about that, it is well documented.
I am sure that most Romans would disassociate themselves from those actions so to label them as "Romans" is an attempt to not call it what it is.
Also what is his main audience when he is playing football in a televised game in a 60,000 seater stadium? Was he doing it privately among only those who don't find it offensive?
Did he use it in the right context then and are we intruding on the private and personal goings on of Di Canio and company.
The sickening thing is the ongoing attempts of people ignore these groups, looking for justifications and defending indefensible actions. Why is there this desire to give Di Canio freedom to express himself as opposed to doing everything to stamp out the prejudice and hate of the people he emboldens?
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filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.
i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event. if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.
it doesn't matter who he claims to be communicating with if he does it in a public forum. When you do something in public, you are communicating with the public....directly, indirectly, intentionally or by accident.....The same way you choose to ignore, other choose not to.
Like I say, whether you choose to label him as a racist or not.....what he did was disrespectful,......and I don't know about you but I can't defend disrespect.
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filho, from your comments you do not seem to be a lazio fan. a key point in this issue is that di canio is not addressing you or i with his salute. he's addressing some other group of people in the stadium - his fan base. why do you care how he addresses someone other than yourself? i don't feel the urge to moderate or regulate how people communicate to other people. my concern is how people communicate with me.
i'll answer your question: i would give di canio the benefit of the doubt. here's the reasoning. di canio is not addressing me, i'm not a lazio fan or a fan of di canio. i don't care to moderate how other people communicate with each other. to me it's a non-event. if the media chooses to report it and i happen to read the article, i don't feel the need to pass judgement on di canio or the lazio fans. no harm no foul.
ribbit.....I have no problems with Lazio, and think Di Canio is a very talented, under-rated footballer. I especially liked him at West Ham. Di Canio can and will do as he pleases, but your ideaology of inaction unless it directly affects you is weak and if everyone felt that way...well....we would probably all be speaking German right now :-\ the fact that Di Canio did not address you or me is not a key issue. To also believe that all he did was greet fellow romans is...well...funny. The roman salute died with Rome, just as the Swastika is no longer a symbol of peace and you would not go around telling people you are gay to express what a great mood you are in. I choose to believe that Di Canio is more intelligent than he is letting on and made the gesture to offend....which is why he remarked that the gesture was also a reaction to how badly he was treated during the game by opposing fans. anyhow...I am just staing my opinion. we disagree. no harm no foul there either
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To ribbit,
you state that there is some doubt as to Di Canio's intent, and that he should be giving the benefit of that doubt
hmm...... i would say that the "Roman" salute to a fan base that has a notorious facist element is very damning, but the clincher for me is the Mussolini tattoo
sorry, in my mind there is no doubt, he's as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of dog poo
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This is obviously being blown way out of porportion.
Your argument of act or don't act does not hold water. Do you stop doing something because it is offensive to some people or do you simply use it when among those who do not find it offensive?
It is the same as some American gestures being offensive in other cultures. Do you stop using all together or do you simply use it in the right context when the right audience is present?
The man was using a symbol that would be understood by his fellow Romans. Seeing that it was his main audience at the time, it is understandable.
This argument ignores the main fact that the fans that he was addressing are a racist faction. There is no debate about that, it is well documented.
I am sure that most Romans would disassociate themselves from those actions so to label them as "Romans" is an attempt to not call it what it is.
Also what is his main audience when he is playing football in a televised game in a 60,000 seater stadium? Was he doing it privately among only those who don't find it offensive?
Did he use it in the right context then and are we intruding on the private and personal goings on of Di Canio and company.
The sickening thing is the ongoing attempts of people ignore these groups, looking for justifications and defending indefensible actions. Why is there this desire to give Di Canio freedom to express himself as opposed to doing everything to stamp out the prejudice and hate of the people he emboldens?
Well said. I have a really simple question: Why would you, (when given the choice) willingly choose to offend anyone? Choices, people... choices.
Peace to all.
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Aight fellas - non ah we know d man personally, except for probably Shaka. And Shaka say dat d man pull good with his family, so I wouldn't jump to say d man iz a racist, cuz fascism DOES NOT EQUAL racism. Racism can be a subset of fascist ideas for some who support fascism, just as how some people who support democracy are racist.
And doh be saying that Lazio is a racist club and Lazio fans are racist... you CANNOT generalize like dat.
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Aight fellas - non ah we know d man personally, except for probably Shaka. And Shaka say dat d man pull good with his family, so I wouldn't jump to say d man iz a racist, cuz fascism DOES NOT EQUAL racism. Racism can be a subset of fascist ideas for some who support fascism, just as how some people who support democracy are racist.
And doh be saying that Lazio is a racist club and Lazio fans are racist... you CANNOT generalize like dat.
Nobody is genralizing. I have referred to a "factuion" of lazio fans and everybody acknowledges that it is only a group of Lazio fans.
As for Facist vs racist. That is more sugar coating.
When they boo Zorro, the black Roma players and black players that visit from other clubs are they objecting to their political ideology or their skin colour?
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i hear you on d booing part, but remember manfirdini and others on Lazio team now not "white" ... Veron, Crespo and Salas are not considered white either and they all played for Lazio.
We can go back n forth over the crowd, buh d thread was started becase of his salute.... and d salute might mean support for fascism but does not mean its a racist salute.
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i hear you on d booing part, but remember manfirdini and others on Lazio team now not "white" ... Veron, Crespo and Salas are not considered white either and they all played for Lazio.
We can go back n forth over the crowd, buh d thread was started becase of his salute.... and d salute might mean support for fascism but does not mean its a racist salute.
Here's something you may not realize. When people can get something from you as in the case where you work for them or play for their club they will tolerate you.
Their behaviour towards you does not say anything about what they feel about others just like you and even you yourself.
Added to the fact that comparing Veron, Salas and Crespo to to dark-skinned afican people is a real stetch
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i hear you on d booing part, but remember manfirdini and others on Lazio team now not "white" ... Veron, Crespo and Salas are not considered white either and they all played for Lazio.
We can go back n forth over the crowd, buh d thread was started becase of his salute.... and d salute might mean support for fascism but does not mean its a racist salute.
yeah right. you really stretching now....go read up on facism in Italy and you probably would not have the same views. Anyhow, I done give my views on the topic...but I had to touch on one last thing...
Crespo...not white? hmmmm...doh get tie up
Salas is Indian and white (he has openly said it) so I give you dat, Veron is supposedly black and white mix (jury still out on dat, since noone can prove it)...but Crespo is a white boy. Nowhere on de planet is he not white....I'd like to know how you come up with that. If ah wrong...cool, but dat one suprise me
carry on
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aight this could keep goin like a tug-of-war ... d point about comparing salas and dem to darker-skinned people in the eyes of those who are racist is well taken... d point i was makin was that the Lazio board aint racist as far as i see it... many fans might be racist, but not all of us. And that we can keep speculating whether Di Canio is racist or not, but we won't know 100% for sure unless d man share a heart with one of us.
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aight this could keep goin like a tug-of-war ... d point about comparing salas and dem to darker-skinned people in the eyes of those who are racist is well taken... d point i was makin was that the Lazio board aint racist as far as i see it... many fans might be racist, but not all of us. And that we can keep speculating whether Di Canio is racist or not, but we won't know 100% for sure unless d man share a heart with one of us.
whether Di Canio is a racist or not is almost beside the point. If you can't see that...well lewwe drop dis one and jes have a :beermug: :beermug:
peace bredda
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ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm
i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
A Swastika is a form of the cross i'm sure there're religions that woulda still use it if it wasn't banned in a way I don't feel your point bout Mussolini that have nothing to do with hate is like the Cubans all they quarrel bout Castro none of them want nothing else Italy will always be racist because unlke the civilisations before them they didn't assimilate many black people or many of the arabs and such so is only white people they know nothing but god could change the people unless they personally want to change if yuh ever went italy and spain to real messed up with that
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Ok i was wrong, when i saw it on tv the first time i was jus like ok whatever d man jus doin his lil roman thing....but now that ah see these pics i agree with what u guys r saying.
(http://freeuploader.com/view.php/85505.bmp)
(http://www.freeuploader.com/view.php/85507.jpg)
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Interesting thread. Di Canio assness exposing some fellas boy.
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Hislop Wants Di Canio To Be Punished
sportinglife.com
Shaka Hislop has called on FIFA to throw the book at his former West Ham team-mate Paolo Di Canio as punishment for his refusal to stop making fascist salutes.
World football's governing body have launched an investigation into Di Canio's behaviour after he was punished by Italian authorities for making extremist right-wing gestures during Lazio's match with Livorno.
Di Canio was at the centre of another storm at the weekend when he was alleged to have made a similar raised-arm salute after being substituted in Lazio's 1-1 draw with Juventus.
He has been banned for one Serie A match and fined £6,775 by the Italian Football Federation (FIGC), but FIFA and their president Sepp Blatter are considering further punishment against the 37-year-old, which Hislop would give his full support.
"To see it happen shook me up a little bit," said Hislop, who played with Di Canio at Upton Park between 1999 and 2002.
"We all knew Paolo was a little bit eccentric. He was a character and football needs those characters."
But, said Hislop: "I would like to see him punished very strongly to the letter of the law.
"If this is what Sepp Blatter recommends and the powers that be agree, then so be it. What comes of Paolo and his career really doesn't have any concern to me any more."
Speaking on BBC Radio Five Live, Hislop added: "The way he's gone about defending himself...I've absolutely no sympathy with what punishment may come about, or what sanctions he may face.
"He's certainly not going to get much sympathy from me."
FIFA have the power to provisionally suspend Di Canio, whose behaviour has drawn a mixed reaction in Italy.
The player himself is adamant he has committed no offence, and said of his domestic one-game ban: "This is a political sentence and it is unjust.
"My salute dates back to ancient Rome and expresses a sense of being a part of something, it has nothing to do with a racist ideology.
"I am ready to do it again."
Lazio president Claudio Lotito defended his player and said: "His gesture was not political and it has been misinterpreted."
But FIFA have asked the FIGC to submit a file on the issue, and it is now their say as to whether Di Canio's gestures have violated their code of ethics, which came into force last year.
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Throw the whole book at him
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ribbit...the Swastika was once a good luck sign...read this if you doh believe me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4183467.stm
i guess if DiCanio tattooed a swastika on his arm and flashed it games and said he wanted to just wish people good luck you would believe that too (he actually has a tattoo of Mussolini...that's close enough)...what Di Canio is doing is wrong. The one arm salute, like the swastika, is NOW a clear symbol of hate. Any pseudo-responsible member of the human race will realize that flaunting these symbols can give impressionable youngsters and racist/violent thugs the wrong message and the consequences can be deadly. What do you think it does to the atmosphere amongst the drunken skinhead ultras when they see a crazed Di Canio salute them like that? This has nothing to do with political correctness. That Roman salute excuse is bullshit...and you fell for it.
A Swastika is a form of the cross i'm sure there're religions that woulda still use it if it wasn't banned in a way I don't feel your point bout Mussolini that have nothing to do with hate is like the Cubans all they quarrel bout Castro none of them want nothing else Italy will always be racist because unlke the civilisations before them they didn't assimilate many black people or many of the arabs and such so is only white people they know nothing but god could change the people unless they personally want to change if yuh ever went italy and spain to real messed up with that
dread...you really need to educate yourself. First of all, we are essentially agreeing on the swastika issue. it has an ancient meaning that is not hateful...but to use it today would land you in trouble. And in case you did not know...the stiff arm salute is also banned all over Europe..that is why I compared it to the swastika.
Next...comparing Mussolini to Castro is ridiculous. Mussulini was a dictator who sided with Hitler in WW II and was a racist, warmongering, facist killer. to have his tatoo is most likely a strong political statement of fascist ultra right wing beliefs...it is almost akin to having a tattoo of Hitler. Castro...though poitically controversial and hated/loved in equal measure amongst Cubans, will not go down in history quite like our dearest Adolf and Benito
Ancient Rome was one of the most assimilated cultures and there were many blacks an arabs who lived there in peace. I don't think you know what you're talking about. I've also been all over Europe and the Spaniards are generally open (even after almost 700 years of dominance by the moors)...a little moreso than Italians. What happens in the stadia is not typical to waht you feel walking down the streets
no disrespect. i jes cyah agree with what you saying...
why am I still responding to this thread ???
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dread...you really need to educate yourself. First of all, we are essentially agreeing on the swastika issue. it has an ancient meaning that is not hateful...but to use it today would land you in trouble. And in case you did not know...the stiff arm salute is also banned all over Europe..that is why I compared it to the swastika.
Not to disagree with your entire point Fihlo but the swastika is a religious symbol that is still in use in India even till today. It is easy for them because they have no negative significance attached to it over there. the number of different cultures that use it has deccreased tremendously but it is a genuine religious symbol for those that do use it and they have no double meaning behind it.
They are somewhat aware of its significance in the west however hence you don't see Hindus anywhere in the west using it, certainly not in public forums.
A good example of people being conscious of a symbol or act's sigficance is Kipling.
He used the swastika on the cover of all his books as he was influenced by eastern culture. When Nazism rose to prominence however he stopped. Now he was using it before the Nazis, for a completely different reason, but was responsible enough to realize that the new meaning of the symbol precluded its further use.
I guess he had a weak spine.
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dread...you really need to educate yourself. First of all, we are essentially agreeing on the swastika issue. it has an ancient meaning that is not hateful...but to use it today would land you in trouble. And in case you did not know...the stiff arm salute is also banned all over Europe..that is why I compared it to the swastika.
Not to disagree with your entire point Fihlo but the swastika is a religious symbol that is still in use in India even till today. It is easy for them because they have no negative significance attached to it over there. the number of different cultures that use it has deccreased tremendously but it is a genuine religious symbol for those that do use it and they have no double meaning behind it.
They are somewhat aware of its significance in the west however hence you don't see Hindus anywhere in the west using it, certainly not in public forums.
A good example of people being conscious of a symbol or act's sigficance is Kipling.
He used the swastika on the cover of all his books as he was influenced by eastern culture. When Nazism rose to prominence however he stopped. Now he was using it before the Nazis, for a completely different reason, but was responsible enough to realize that the new meaning of the symbol precluded its further use.
I guess he had a weak spine.
JDB..we are actually agreeing, not disagreeing. I should have made it more clear but I meant using the swastika (or the stiff arm salute) in a forum where it is generally interpreted as offensive and I was speaking more specifically about Europe where it is banned in public.
I think we are on the same wavelength
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I can't believe men on here defending this stupidness.
Could only be a case of talking for talking sake.
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I'm a fascist, but not racist, says Di Canio
Controversial Italian footballer Paolo Di Canio, who has caused a Serie A storm for making Nazi salutes, admitted that he was a fascist, but not a racist.
The Lazio skipper is appealing against a one-match suspension for making the gesture last weekend during the match against Juventus.
He had made a similar gesture the previous week against Livorno and was fined 10,000 euros for giving the salute in the Rome derby in March.
"I am a fascist, but not racist," insisted the 37-year-old.
"I gave the salute to my supporters who share my ideas. The arm raised is not to incite violence or even racial hatred."
Di Canio has summoned the services of a lawyer Gabriele Bordoni, a supporter of the club and a sympathiser of the extreme right.
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I ain't go lie. Ah hoping Spain get knocked out first round for they pathetic punitive measures against racism. Keep fining dem pocket change, as if that go solve the problem. They need to start prosecuting people like in England.
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I am of the firm belief that FIFA and it's related entites encourage racism.
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at the end of the day wat u go do, the nazis took signs and symbols from all over the world from all religions. if u start to clamp every1 for so much ah ting then ya basically a nazi. italy has probs wid racism in genral just like spain and alot of countries and its stupid specially as alot of there people are ethnicly mix but dont know there history. is ah loop hole ting di man from friggin rome playin in rome he do a roman salute wether its meant racists or not wat u go do. and man say remember italy and the nazis was allies in the war well its americans who started the nazi party member that they all linked i kno this is a football forum but racists men killin thousands of people and its ok but 1 friggin footballer make a sign and people does be in upraw.
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na bredrin u get mi wrong, but i didnt write it out right sorry. wat im sayin is if ah man do somting that could have 2 meanin dont jump all over di man when it have people a million times worse then it come like u pickin which 1 to punish while other tings go unpunished and in dat sense is a nazi ting. like i said this is a football forum so im obviously not talkin about people on here. and as for your example the DA and the whole of the govement sctucture is racists, prejudice etc etc. so yes dem is friggin nazi too, is like u have 1 jackass tellin ah nex man he is a jackass, to di end of the day both of dem is di same ting and should be dealt wid if u see where im comming from. but i do believe every1 has a right to there opinion, i know racist people and thier views and there r som who r plain stupid and some that have reasoning behind what they belive. its where those views take u thats the prob, i have no problem wid som1 hating my race thats dem and i feel sorry for dem, but if they then do me somting dats the when tings change. if people feel strongly about it use your brain dont ask about di canio ask y is there racism there y r they allowed in the stadium y does it go unpunished etc, yuh tryin to kill a tree by choping its branches it doesnt work. this post isnt directed at u tho bro.
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i realize like racism is beginning to be more widespread in europe now not that it has not been their before but its more blatant in football today.
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na np i read it bak and it sounded kinda wrong too :-\
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Racism in football: FIFA demands file on Di Canio case
Zurich, 22 December 2005 - FIFA has asked the Italian football association to submit its file on the case involving the player, Paolo Di Canio, to world football's governing body. Di Canio made right-wing extremist gestures during a match between his club, SS Lazio, and Livorno on 11 December 2005 and the Italian football association subsequently suspended him for one match and imposed a fine. FIFA now wishes to determine the extent to which Di Canio's racist gestures violated not only the FIFA Code of Ethics, which came into force in 2004, but also the relevant disciplinary provisions.
At his end-of-year media conference at FIFA headquarters in Zurich on 20 December 2005, FIFA President Joseph S. Blatter announced a stricter and more unified procedure against racism and discrimination. He also stated that FIFA intended to pass regulations in this regard, in cooperation with the confederations and associations, in January 2006. UEFA president and FIFA vice-president Lennart Johansson, who has been in regular telephone contact with Blatter in recent days, has pledged his full support for this initiative.
Johansson also agreed with the FIFA President that the FIFA Executive Committee should deal with the question of compensation for teams who release players for the World Cup or other international matches at its next meeting on 17-18 March 2006. During the above-mentioned media conference, Blatter had once again stressed that it was not FIFA that should directly compensate clubs, but rather the qualified associations who should pay clubs a proportion of their prize money for releasing players. This, however, is a question of keeping things in perspective. "The world would be turned upside down if a poor association had to pay the wages of a well-paid player from a rich club," said Blatter.
FIFA's prize money fund for the 2006 FIFA World Cup™ totals CHF 332 million. Advance payments totalling 32 million (one million for each association taking part) will be made as a contribution towards preparing the finalist teams. Each association will receive CHF 2 million per match in the first round and can thus rely on a guaranteed income of at least CHF 7 million. The winners of the 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany™ will take home prize money amounting to CHF 24.5 million. The runners-up will pocket CHF 22.5 million, while the teams coming third and fourth will each receive CHF 21.5 million.
Further information from:
FIFA Media Department
media@fifa.org
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Lazio's Di Canio promises to stop saluting
Reuters
Lazio striker Paolo Di Canio has promised to stop displaying the fascist salute to his supporters.
Di Canio, who has twice been fined for the straight-arm gesture, told a radio station in Rome he would cease his 'Roman salute' to the fans in order to protect the club.
'During the Christmas break I have had time to reflect and I have decided to put the good of Lazio before my interests,' said the former West Ham United striker.
'For the moment I will avoid certain displays in public, situations which are so devilish for some people,' he said.
'But I will continue my battle for liberty in other ways, with he help of the lawyers who assist me,' said Di Canio.
The 37-year-old had previously vowed to continue with the salute despite receiving a one-match ban last month.
Di Canio could face another fine and ban when soccer authorities meet later this month to decide on the punishment for the salute he gave in a Serie A match at Livorno.
He was fined 10,000 euros ($12,070) and banned for one game after making the gesture in a home match against Juventus.
Three supporters groups have opened a bank account for donations to pay Di Canio's fine, Italian media have reported.
The striker, who has also played in Scotland with Celtic and for Italian clubs Juventus and AC Milan, first made the salute in the Rome derby last season - for which he was fined.
He has made no secret of his admiration for Italy's wartime fascist leader Benito Mussolini and has the word 'Dux', Latin for 'Duce', Mussolini's moniker, tattooed on his arm.
The forward also said that he was ready to extend his contract with Lazio beyond this season.
'I'm certainly not going to quit playing because I have a mission to complete here. I will only leave Lazio when the club decides that,' he added.
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yeah boy de canio say he is a fascist and not a racist. what an asshole! like if fascism doh embrace racism as one of its tenets!
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on 20 December 2005, FIFA President Joseph S. Blatter announced a stricter and more unified procedure against racism and discrimination.
so does that mean the next time the Spanish fans taunt our black players and their manager makes disgusting remarks about frances top player FIFA will act.
Maybe next time they will get a 50euro fine and be told to stand in the corner for half an hour. No chance of them being banned from a major competition which is what should have happened.
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Upon reading this article, my thoughts automatically went to Brent Sancho, who unfortunately had racist comments thrown his way by two men in 2003. Athough it didn't take place on the pitch we still have to ask ourselves, what the hell were they thinking?.
I hope that Thierry Henry is successful in his fight to eradicate racism in football.
http://www.time.com/time/europe/hero2005/henry.html
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yep but for racism to be kicked out of football it has to be kicked out of society, because for alot of countrie foorball is a big part of the culture.
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Eto'o and government want tough action on racism
(Updates with government appeal for higher fine for Zaragoza)
MADRID, March 1 (Reuters) - The Spanish government's Anti-violence Commission have joined Samuel Eto'o in calling for tougher punishments for racist abuse after the Barcelona striker was insulted by fans in a league match against Real Zaragoza.
"We need exemplary punishments," the Cameroon international told a news conference on Wednesday. "Maybe it would make people think again if they closed the Zaragoza stadium for a year and made them play all their matches away from home."
ADVERTISEMENT
Eto'o tried to leave the pitch during last Saturday's match having been targeted for racial abuse by Zaragoza fans, but Barca coach Frank Rijkaard persuaded him to play on.
"It wasn't just a few fans, it was practically the whole stadium," Eto'o said. "I decided to stop playing because they were attacking me because of my colour.
"What made me go back was the boss telling me that the best way to shut them up was to beat them. That is the only thing that made me change my mind.
"I don't know whether I was right or not to carry on playing, but I just tried to put what had happened out of my mind."
Barca scored two goals in the remaining 11 minutes of the game, the second of which was set up by Eto'o.
Zaragoza were fined 9,000 euros ($10,750) by the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) for the incident, but the government-run Anti-violence Commission said in a statement on Wednesday the punishment was insufficient.
The Commission plans to appeal for a higher fine more in accordance with the seriousness of the offence.
In a clear move to get both clubs and football authorities to take a tougher stance against the problem, the Commission reminded them of the protocol they signed in which they pledged to combat racism.
They also informed the RFEF that referees had the power to abandon games in the face of serious incidents of racism.
Eto'o said that financial punishments for the clubs alone were unlikely to provide the solution.
"If it is just the clubs that are fined, then people know they can get away with it. We need to work together to find the answers, the law and the legal system can help deal with the problem too."
Eto'o was asked why he had not made a similar condemnation of the actions of his former coach Luis Aragones who made disparaging remarks about French striker Thierry Henry to his Arsenal colleague Jose Antonio Reyes during a Spanish team training session in October 2004.
"A guy like Luis isn't racist," Eto'o replied. "He chose the wrong words and comments like his usually remain in the dressing room."
Updated on Wednesday, Mar 1, 2006 1:07 pm EST
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I did not have to read further than this
"We need exemplary punishments," the Cameroon international told a news conference on Wednesday. "Maybe it would make people think again if they closed the Zaragoza stadium for a year and made them play all their matches away from home."
dem 600 euros ent doin it
not happenein, dem dont care dey jus talking to make the rest of the world think they care
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dem 600 euros ent doin it
EU$9000
I find Eto'o's comments about Aragones interesting. I thought he would condemn him too, but he don't think Aragones is racist.
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dem 600 euros ent doin it
EU$9000
I find Eto'o's comments about Aragones interesting. I thought he would condemn him too, but he don't think Aragones is racist.
Aragones is de man who take care of him when he first came to Spain.... He is a father-figure to Eto'o... I believe he live in de man house for a while all kinda ting....
I am sure Eto'o had some private words with him about the incident...
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FIFA passes anti-racism legislation
ZURICH, Switzerland (AP) - FIFA passed anti-racism legislation Thursday that could exclude teams for up to two years for violations.
Under the rules passed by the world governing body's executive committee, teams would see three points deducted for a first offense, six for a second and relegation for further violations.
Teams could also be disqualified from competitions, and member associations could be excluded for up to two years.
"The new rules take effect essentially as soon as we can notify the associations by way of a letter," FIFA spokesman Andreas Herren said. "It's not going to take a long time.
"It applies to all competitions throughout the world at any level. All matches of all types are covered."
The new rules were passed a day after the European Parliament adopted a declaration calling for soccer clubs whose fans or players commit racist offenses to be excluded from competitions.
Earlier this month, Barcelona's Cameroon striker, Samuel Eto'o, was subjected to racist taunts by fans.
Spain coach Luis Aragones brought the issue to the forefront 17 months ago when he used racist language to describe Arsenal striker Thierry Henry.
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Just in time too.. AWATT just launched ARU - Anti Racism Unit.. See here
http://www.socawarriorssc.com/swonline/smf/index.php?topic=12597.0
;D
But on a serious note.. what FIFA did was a good thing.. this racism shit has to be stamped oput some how..
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This is great news.... Does this rule also apply to a coach or a player making a racism comment.
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GOOD.
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And what of the spanish coach who is still coaching Spain ? FIFA again boy .....lock de gate after de warner, oh sorry, horse has bolted !
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Jai John how about typical UEFA. They didn't have to wait for FIFA to take action. That racist organization coulda stamp that out on they own....after all it is Europe.
Allyuh does only talk bout FIFA FIFA.....the main problem is UEFA. That problem doh happen to that extent anywhere near liike in Europe. Not CONCACAF, CONMEBOL not AFRICA or ASIA.
So yuh would think UEFA woulda take the forefront.
STEUPS.
FIFA make ah good move.
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with all this issue of racism in soccer, i was wondering , just out of sheer curiosity,which country you think would black soccer players be most uncomfortable? due to racism on/off the field?
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Italy!!!!!
England was real bad before but they have made great improvements...rite now i hadda go with Italy
I tink turkey not easy either...buh i not sure
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yea i have to go with italy also
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with all this issue of racism in soccer, i was wondering , just out of sheer curiosity,which country you think would black soccer players be most uncomfortable? due to racism on/off the field?
Spain. Without a doubt!
Kingman
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Italy!!!!!
England was real bad before but they have made great improvements...rite now i hadda go with Italy
I tink turkey not easy either...buh i not sure
nope i think its the greece
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Italy by farr......
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Italy for real
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Italy!!!!!
England was real bad before but they have made great improvements...rite now i hadda go with Italy
I tink turkey not easy either...buh i not sure
nope i think its the greece
yuh referin tuh de greek olympic coach that made those idiotic remarks about black athletes?
i havent really picked up on Greeks being particularly racial... Id also say the Italians...
The Turks... yea they aint easy... Galatasaray aka HELL.
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nope i think its the greece
well, I will say that the Greek club that Kevin Nelson plays for in Melbourne, Australia is REAL bad.
check here (http://www.socawarriorssc.com/swonline/smf/index.php?topic=12597.msg122134#msg122134)
I concurr.. Allot of the South Melborne greek fans are the pits..
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Italy, Spain, Greece, Argentina. I hate Italy and Argentina the worst wid spain comin in 3rd.
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Serbia
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South Africa.
I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.
Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.
Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
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South Africa.
I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.
Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.
Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
In South Africa it is a predominantly black sport. Whites play rugby.
Just like how in Trinidad football and cricket are predominantly divided along racial lines
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South Africa.
I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.
Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.
Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
In South Africa it is a predominantly black sport. Whites play rugby.
Just like how in Trinidad football and cricket are predominantly divided along racial lines
My friend i understand that, but there is know such thing as a white, black, chinee or indian sport.
By thinking this way it creates division.
It is just the mentality that has to change.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
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South Africa.
I have spoken to some of them and they still say that football is a black sport, even though there are white people playing for South Africa.
Now that is what i call being ignorant and backward.
Everybody knows that football was invented by the English.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
In South Africa it is a predominantly black sport. Whites play rugby.
Just like how in Trinidad football and cricket are predominantly divided along racial lines
My friend i understand that, but there is know such thing as a white, black, chinee or indian sport.
By thinking this way it creates division.
It is just the mentality that has to change.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
agreed
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italy an spain reel bad
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
my sentiments exactly..
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Good point :applause:
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Agreed.
Just the title of this thread alone makes no sense. How do you measure racism and more importantly who here has taking an objective measure of these places to determine "the most racist country".
But say what is a rum shop discussion so I wouldn't take it too seriously. What I like the most is how everybody have a different answer. It remind of the story about the six blind men an the elephant.
Racism/prejudice is one beast and it is everywhere, probably in equal measure.
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Filho, are you isolating your response to football or just racism in general?
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because i understood it to be within football. As pointman is pointing out. :devil: My point is :rotfl:, I could have misunderstood the post but since this is a football forum I tend to put a football bias on all subjects. Using our own country's foolisness as an example, as with some other places like Brasil come football day everybody drunk with football pride enough to put their differences away or rather we grab hold of different differences, football diferences. Yorke vs Latapy... :devil: Wha tallest can do and wha Lara cya do :rotfl: At Carnival time we tend to do the same. There are however some places that dont even turn it off for football like some of these places that were mentioned. Too not expose them even within thought is to in some way accept the ultra-disregard (versus the sheltered disregard) for those that are different but still support and pay their wages even. All Nationalities share the racism card but Man-kind unfortunately seem to appreciate the soft sell versus the blunt truth. My example is the difference between Bill Clinton & George Bush... Same shit, different sell. Everyone love to hate George Bush however Clinton was viewed as the MAN. Bush would say "Ah doh like allyuh" - Clinton would say "Ah doh like allyuh but can't we all just get along"
I still believe that the Italian Authority and the courtrymen who bought into the foolishness are probably the most blatant haters around the world. This is my biased judgement and I make it on the grounds of deeds passed.
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because i understood it to be within football. As pointman is pointing out. :devil: My point is :rotfl:, I could have misunderstood the post but since this is a football forum I tend to put a football bias on all subjects. Using our own country's foolisness as an example, as with some other places like Brasil come football day everybody drunk with football pride enough to put their differences away or rather we grab hold of different differences, football diferences. Yorke vs Latapy... :devil: Wha tallest can do and wha Lara cya do :rotfl: At Carnival time we tend to do the same. There are however some places that dont even turn it off for football like some of these places that were mentioned. Too not expose them even within thought is to in some way accept the ultra-disregard (versus the sheltered disregard) for those that are different but still support and pay their wages even. All Nationalities share the racism card but Man-kind unfortunately seem to appreciate the soft sell versus the blunt truth. My example is the difference between Bill Clinton & George Bush... Same shit, different sell. Everyone love to hate George Bush however Clinton was viewed as the MAN. Bush would say "Ah doh like allyuh" - Clinton would say "Ah doh like allyuh but can't we all just get along"
I still believe that the Italian Authority and the courtrymen who bought into the foolishness are probably the most blatant haters around the world. This is my biased judgement and I make it on the grounds of deeds passed.
Show of hands - anyone been to an Italian football match. Or Spanish? Or Turkish? Or know anyone that's been and experienced racism? ::)
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i've been to sigonella and experienced racism
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i've been to sigonella and experienced racism
Who plays in Sigonella?
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i've been to sigonella and experienced racism
Who plays in Sigonella?
yuh say italy so ah telling yuh when i went to sig and was at some local football game men was watching meh funny and i could feel de (how could i say this in english) vibes on meh neck.
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Will have to be italy
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I still believe that the Italian Authority and the courtrymen who bought into the foolishness are probably the most blatant haters around the world. This is my biased judgement and I make it on the grounds of deeds passed.
Show of hands - anyone been to an Italian football match. Or Spanish? Or Turkish? Or know anyone that's been and experienced racism? ::)
This statement was not based on football this was just as a country. On a soccer note I happen to dislike Argentina the most.
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).
I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Good point but looking at the origninal question I think it was supposed to be a football racism question
with all this issue of racism in soccer, i was wondering , just out of sheer curiosity,which country you think would black soccer players be most uncomfortable? due to racism on/off the field?
.......but the part about on/off the field sorta broadened it and made it unclear......football or not, it is impossible to measure racism, and most of us can only go off what we hear in the press......If I had to guess which country it would be most uncomfortable for a black player just based on the press, I'd have to say Spain & Italy. But I could imagine it to be difficult in Eastern Europe as well (but news coming out of those leagues is alot more limited)
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Italy, Spain, Greece, Argentina. I hate Italy and Argentina the worst wid spain comin in 3rd.
I would concur with all the countries yuh name there. Some fellas asking how yuh know the country racist yuh ever been there...etc.
Many of the countries named throughout this thread have a racist past and don't have the kind of laws to help stamp out racism.
And yes Brazil does have problems...more of an Superior vs Inferior population...Not seen as much as racist because many "Black" Brazilians don't even consider themselves Black. Well until they go other countries where they get called Black like in the US.
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).
I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.
I think it's safe to say that every country will have a different racial outlook on how Black folks are viewed and treated based on a number of different factors...history being the main factor.
Brazil's racial climate is different from T&T's which is different from the US which is different from Mexico etc, etc. In terms of football, I don't think a Black player will have the same experience playing in Brazil as in Spain or Italy. At the same token outside of football, Blacks in Brazil have a very difficult life. Money is also a MAJOR factor in how people(Blacks) are treated in most countries...if you have money yuh cool if not tuff.
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Serbia
to be honest not really...have sum black frens that play water polo out there......ITALY is by far the most racist
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The truth is you'll find many countries with a racist side...........
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The truth is you'll find many countries with a racist side...........
racists are everywhere...but some places they a lil more open about it than others...
Up here in upstate new york first question a couple pple from de area ask me wen i said i from Trinidad is how i make out with all de black pple...i does hadda ask if thats a serious question...cuz i does jus be in shock
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eastern europe and russia supposed to be real bad. i eh going there to find out though.
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I hear nuff man saying Italy ..yet still dey praying for Italy to beat USA?.. Dat means dey promoting Racialism!!!!!!!! but wah this fadda????
warmonga
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eastern europe and russia supposed to be real bad. i eh going there to find out though.
Nah, it eh bad fuh de genuine black man. Is de darker white people that in trouble in Russia, like de kazahks, Azeris , Georgians etc, dey skin lil darker than de white white Russians an dey does actually call them " Blackies". Go figure , white people calling white people black.
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the usa!
i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.
but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.
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the usa!
i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.
but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.
One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.
Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent video, there are no white people to be seen.
Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?
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to answer the question though, if you look at the recent history of Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia etc, there has been attempted "Ethnic Cleansing" so it would be fair to say that the most racist countries are down there, however, I think this may be directed more intenally than externally.
However, i do recall English Black players being taunted in an Eastern European country.
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yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......
but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.
its peanuts compared to the usa.
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the usa!
i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.
but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.
One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.
Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent video, there are no white people to be seen.
Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?
your hip hop example simply isn't true...but it is kinda funny
Your sentiments about America cannot be denied though. The country has racist problems, but as a nation it is relatively open about it and there are a lot of people and organizations with political clout who work to stamp it out, with varying degrees of success. I believe that the one truth about racism in the US is...white people think there less than there really is...and black people think there more than there really is. But the US also seems more racist because Americans like to talk about it...always...the media is seems to be always uncovering the issue somewhere. If you look for it..you will find it. And America is always lookign for it, unlike most European nations. I do not think the average white American is less enlightened than the average white Brit...Brits and Europeans as a whole tend to be less vocal in their racism. And like England, you won't really find it in sports arenas...in fact, hte US is way ahead of England on that score....that says nothing to me about racism in actually society, but some seem to like to use that as ane xample...so I broought it up. I have been here for 13 years and the only time I have seen anything explicity racist was from a German tourist....well....I guess he could have been Austrian or Swiss German ;)
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yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......
but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.
its peanuts compared to the usa.
you are so clearly anti US you are starting to sound irrational....ethnic cleansing in Serbia is peanuts to racism in the US today?
A Klu Klux clan rally is pretty disgusting, but it has lost its menace and happens less and less...
Holland seems like a very racially open country. I have a cousine who lives in Amsterdam and loves it and she is black. But let's be honest..in most of continental Europe today, the treatment of Jews, Gypsies and Arabs is as horrendous. You may find a klu klux rally here and there in the US, but you will find a neo nazi skin-head rally every week in your friendly neighborhood football stadium all over continental Europe...including Holland. In many cases (not all) blacks face equal amounts of racism in Europe as in the US, but one can argue that our numbers are so few, we are often not seen as a real threat on the landscape......once blacks become a large enough part of the population, you see changing attitudes...like France...very open and racially-integrated by European standards...yet a right-wing, anti-immigration political party has come close to winning general elections there last time around...my point is, it is impossible to actually measure the degrees of racism. Europeans should not point fingers either...they ahve their own dirty laundry to deal with.....Anyway, we could argue for eternity...and we would probably still all be right to some degree...
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the usa!
i have a friend ,and she is dutch,she is not white and lives now for about a year in the usa,she witnessed a klu klux clan demonstration,with the white hads and all!!!!
she couldn´t believe it!
i come from holland and have been in every country in europe ,but there is allmost no racism anymore,not the way the usa have it at this moment.
but what can you expect from a country where the average IQ is maesured by the amount of jerry springer episodes that you have seen.
One nation of the people, for the people, as long as you are a white christian male.
Why is it, If you watch an eminem video, there are black and white singers/dancers. If you watch a Puff Daddy, snoop dog, 50 cent video, there are no white people to be seen.
Does America have a racial issue, or just a racial divide?
your hip hop example simply isn't true...but it is kinda funny
Your sentiments about America cannot be denied though. The country has racist problems, but as a nation it is relatively open about it and there are a lot of people and organizations with political clout who work to stamp it out, with varying degrees of success. I believe that the one truth about racism in the US is...white people think there less than there really is...and black people think there more than there really is. But the US also seems more racist because Americans like to talk about it...always...the media is seems to be always uncovering the issue somewhere. If you look for it..you will find it. And America is always lookign for it, unlike most European nations. I do not think the average white American is less enlightened than the average white Brit...Brits and Europeans as a whole tend to be less vocal in their racism. And like England, you won't really find it in sports arenas...in fact, hte US is way ahead of England on that score....that says nothing to me about racism in actually society, but some seem to like to use that as ane xample...so I broought it up. I have been here for 13 years and the only time I have seen anything explicity racist was from a German tourist....well....I guess he could have been Austrian or Swiss German ;)
the Hip Hop example was meant to be fairly light hearted, but that is the impression that i get of the states and certaily the impression I got of New York.
But then again, most of my impressions of the States come from MTV and Hollywood so i am very impressed by the way some hip hop artists can also Box, fight aliens, make geeks more attractive to women and save Los Angeles from drug barons ably assisted by a stand up comedian. By the way, where is Belle Aire? ;D
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).
I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.
From what I've read, it's more of a class thing in Brazil and also brothers and sisters of the same parents are sometimes classed in different racial categories.
As far as I know, in football terms, Italy,Spain and Argentina. As you can see these countries are very similar as most Argentines are of Spanish and Italian decent. Also these countries, although many attempts have been made to hide it, have had a signifcant black presence in the past.
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yes ,ok,but i think that the worldcup allso is being played in a country were there were some ´etnic cleanings' ......
but the poorer european countries have more racism thats true.
its peanuts compared to the usa.
you are so clearly anti US you are starting to sound irrational....ethnic cleansing in Serbia is peanuts to racism in the US today?
A Klu Klux clan rally is pretty disgusting, but it has lost its menace and happens less and less...
Holland seems like a very racially open country. I have a cousine who lives in Amsterdam and loves it and she is black. But let's be honest..in most of continental Europe today, the treatment of Jews, Gypsies and Arabs is as horrendous. You may find a klu klux rally here and there in the US, but you will find a neo nazi skin-head rally every week in your friendly neighborhood football stadium all over continental Europe...including Holland. In many cases (not all) blacks face equal amounts of racism in Europe as in the US, but one can argue that our numbers are so few, we are often not seen as a real threat on the landscape......once blacks become a large enough part of the population, you see changing attitudes...like France...very open and racially-integrated by European standards...yet a right-wing, anti-immigration political party has come close to winning general elections there last time around...my point is, it is impossible to actually measure the degrees of racism. Europeans should not point fingers either...they ahve their own dirty laundry to deal with.....Anyway, we could argue for eternity...and we would probably still all be right to some degree...
I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.
all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.
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I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.
all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.
no harsher than you are being on Americans.....the issue is real on both sides of the pond and I don't see the point in 'measuring' who is worse than who.
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I can understand your point and I am obviously only speaking from a moderate white position, but I would say you are being a bit harsh on Europe there. I am not saying there is room for complacency, in parts of the UK the BNP are getting stronger and stronger and feeding off peoples fears of Immigration and crime, but the average British person recognises the significance of these extremists and will not be prepared to let them get too powerful.
all the time you have got Muslims blowing themselves up on buses though, you will have fuel for the fascists.
no harsher than you are being on Americans.....the issue is real on both sides of the pond and I don't see the point in 'measuring' who is worse than who.
I've got no desire to measure or compare. I would also say that we both have problems to sort out. In europe, we have all been at war with each other for the last two thousand years so we have a lot of issues to resolve.
The knuckle dragging Neo Nazi's are not something you see on every street corner and when you do see them there are more "Anti" than "Pro" demonstrators. I'm sure the same thing applies to the KKK. By the way, I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood. ;D
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I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood. ;D
Good to know........my application should be processed more quickly now.
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Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).
I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.
From what I've read, it's more of a class thing in Brazil and also brothers and sisters of the same parents are sometimes classed in different racial categories.
As far as I know, in football terms, Italy,Spain and Argentina. As you can see these countries are very similar as most Argentines are of Spanish and Italian decent. Also these countries, although many attempts have been made to hide it, have had a signifcant black presence in the past.
nah horse...if you use your conscience, we all know that classism is just another term for racism. Look I am NOT the utmost authority on Brazil..I think Brazilians in general really cool and I love most of the culture. I have a large crew of Brazilian friends, all of them happen to be white and very cool...According to them....lack of racism in Brazil is a joke. They saw it every day growing up in predomianantly white areas of Sao Paulo. Some parts in southern Brazil like Porto Alegre are almost all-white, and would like to keep it that way. Let's just say a lot of 'germans' fled there after the World war II. That is how the term 'Alemao' got popular in brazil. Literally it means german and is used today to describe anyone with blond hair...Brazil does little to recognize its indigenous people and most blacks deny even having any african heritage. The gov't systematically keeps poor people uneducated by charging a 'fee' to sit pre-university entrance exams....poor bright kids do not get to go to university in Brazil as you actually have to do the exam to qualify for a scholarship. Brazil was one of the last countries on the planet to outlaw slavery. Inevitably, when you meet black people in Brazil...they are most likely going to be poor.
Look, I am painting Brazil in a poor light to make a point. The truth is, in many ways Brazil is one of the least racist societies you could come across. Socially it is very comfortable for all races in most parts of the country. Pele is reverred as a God. Most people choose not to define themselves by their race, even those who are white...but in many ways that count..education, job prospects, places to live, access to capital, etc....racism is rife in Brazil. Ask Brazilians that have actually lived there..go visit Brazil carnival and witness the segregation yourself. I saw not one black person in a Salvador carnival band...they were all outside the ropes begging for an abada (costume shirt)...I was the only black person I saw for 4 days who was not outside the ropes...I almost couldn't believe I was in Brazil. But I am not letting my personal experience dictate how anyone should view an entire nation...I just saying that element exists
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I just heard that, for the first time since it's inception in 1964 in San Quentin state prison, That it is no longer necessary to be white to join The Aryan Brotherhood. ;D
Hahahah. Actually, it's no longer necessary to be white to have an Aryan Brotherhood 'roommate'. I guess there are times when segregation is a damn good thing ;)
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post of the thread
I fully agree
just watch that movie "Crash"
as far as I can acertain, it is just the tip of the iceberg
that movie crash was very entertaining, but also not realistic. Racism is way more subtle than that,.......come better than that West Coast...you make an adult assessment based on a 2hr movie ?.......not even a documentary....... a movie.........steups !!!
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i've been to sigonella and experienced racism
Who plays in Sigonella?
yuh say italy so ah telling yuh when i went to sig and was at some local football game men was watching meh funny and i could feel de (how could i say this in english) vibes on meh neck.
Could be yuh funny to look at ??? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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read my post man read my post read my post AGAIN
allya miss comprhension or wha
as I said IT IS THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG
ADDENDUM: ya kno what, YOU RIGHT
you have your opinion and I have mine
I still say USA, REAL REAL bad
an you livin there!!!
an you doh see it
i see it everyday in the news
and I live in Canada
Kicker I feel you just come out fa KICKS oui :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
OR you have never travelled to OTHER countries other than the GREAT US of A
::) ::) ::) ::)
horse, if yuh notice I stayin' far from giving an opinion on what is the most racist country, because:
1: I think it's impossible to measure, and hence a useless & endless discussion....the issue is just too broad and should be qualified (I think the original question was limited to football)
2: As you alluded to, I am not the most travelled person, so my opinion would be based on very limited experiences........visiting a country for a short period doesn't help much either....if anything it might hurt, because it may only gives a very narrow & often skewed view....and a very limited set of experiences that can taint your perspective.
Never did I try to diminish the gravity of racism in the states......... all I'm saying is, using a movie (especially a mainstream hollywood movie), to strengthen an argument is weak.....
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Never did I try to diminish the gravity of racism in the states......... all I'm saying is, using a movie (especially a mainstream hollywood movie), to strengthen an argument is weak.....
yes ya right
Because what I am really saying is that the problem is GREATER than what the movie portrays
ok......I hear what you're saying......it's just a 2hr movie though, so that's kinda obvious........
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Never did I try to diminish the gravity of racism in the states......... all I'm saying is, using a movie (especially a mainstream hollywood movie), to strengthen an argument is weak.....
yes ya right
Because what I am really saying is that the problem is GREATER than what the movie portrays
you still used the movie to strengthen your argument...you are saying look at Crash as a base and then multiply it by some factor. and you also used the news...sorry but the news can be sensational garbage at times just as often as it exposes the truth. you cannot equate racism in the US to a movie or what you see on the news...i am not going to completely disagree with youevery ...although racism in the US is a sociatel plague...the experience differs from individual to individual. It can be worse than Crash depicts but not necessarily. You are making some wild assumptions for someone who does not even live in the US and then want to insult someone who actually does. There are just as many minorities who will testify that they never experienced racism or (for better or worse) have never recognized it in the US. As kicker says...racism is often far more subtle than that.
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america so freggin racist
it have blacks from the south who doh like blacks from de north who doh like de midwest blacks who doh like de blacks from de west.
no race gets along in harmony here
maybe in new york and florida but as far as the country goes
take ah roadtrip and see fuh yuhself
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filho how you reach here just so
can you point out where i insulted Kicker.....
sorry if I am wrong, but this seems a bit condescending to me...
.....OR you have never travelled to OTHER countries other than the GREAT US of A
::) ::) ::) ::)
allya just out to PUT DONG PEOPLE with out READING people posts
please show where I put you down. I even agreed with parts of your argument but then showed my different view and challenged your assumptions. That is how people discuss topics they are in disagreement about. But I am not sure where I put you down. Just gave my different point of view...I read your posts, maybe you should read mine.
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filho how you reach here just so
can you point out where i insulted Kicker, please an thanks
and why you ent mention that he did NOT read my original post properly as I said it was the "TIP OF THE ICEBURG"
let me explain that saying
only about 10% of an Iceberg is visible
in other words I am inferring EXACTLY what Kicker is saying
it is MORE SUBTLE
allya ent easy
HERE IS MY ORIGINAL POST FOR YOUR PERUSAL
post of the thread
I fully agree
just watch that movie "Crash"
as far as I can acertain, it is just the tip of the iceberg
allya just out to PUSH DONG PEOPLE (http://www.islandevents.com/adtrak/out.php?url=http://www.islandevents.com/multimedia/uploads/push_down_people_-_onyan.wma) (here is ah chooon fa allya) with out READING/COMPREHENDING people posts
lol @ the push down tune..... :rotfl: That was kinda funny.
no worries about the argument. I know what you mean by saying that what was depicted in crash was the tip of the iceberg.....
that was not my point (and it surely was not my intention to bicker)...
I just would not have used that movie as an example at all, because I think it takes the "tip of the iceberg", as you say....... and turns it into a circus (afterall it's a movie primarily for entertainment purposes)...that's what I was saying and I think we understand eachother.
we cool....
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I have to shake ya hand as I am AMAZED that you did NOT say that the words of that CHOON had nothing to do with my comment about push dong people in this instance.
It was JUST the TITLE I was interested in.
like yuh real sensitive today boy.......men see yuh posts a lil different from what was intended and yuh start to fret like a jammette in church......re-read, no one sling any personal attacks your way......
...thanks for de tune anyways...
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it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.copycat this copycat that.AMERICA IS AH RACIST f**kKIN COUNTRY.accordin to morvant,just drive tru de states like ohio and iowa and carolina.they doh even like they own f**kkin people.
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YOU START ting by NOT COMPREHENDING a man POST and I is de sensitive one :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
what does that make you then ???
call Palos and ask he what he does say about people who REFUSE to COMPREHEND what people are sayin in posts.
You JUST wanted to start something and NOW ya backpeddling as I ent lettin you go EASY sooooooooo!!
ALLYA RIGHT OUI
ALLYA RIGHT!!!!!
I am :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
I understood yuh post, I said a long time ago........ it seems you misunderstood me.
I eh start nuttin....I just disagreed with using that movie crash as a relevant example.....it's that simple....not backpeddling.....just refraining from making this more serious than it really is....
"you not letting go" steups......wateva yes. I shoulda known from the time I said that I saw things a little differently, it woulda become a who's right and who's wrong thing.....go on breds, don't let go...
...dunno why I even bother....
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it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.
like who.....
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it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.
like who.....
is bacchanal yuh like,yuh wuh call names.
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is bacchanal yuh like,yuh wuh call names.
well yuh talkin' large cussing down the place........doh coward.......call names
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YOU START ting by NOT COMPREHENDING a man POST and I is de sensitive one :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
what does that make you then ???
call Palos and ask he what he does say about people who REFUSE to COMPREHEND what people are sayin in posts.
You JUST wanted to start something and NOW ya backpeddling as I ent lettin you go EASY sooooooooo!!
ALLYA RIGHT OUI
ALLYA RIGHT!!!!!
I am :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
you really mature dread...calm down and realize noone trying to move like an a$$ with you. I disagreed with a portion of your post, so what? Even if you believe I misinterpreted it, it doesn't justify your inability to maintain a decent dialogue without getting personal..... i understand exactly where you coming from and I agreed with some and disagreed with some...take your own advice and read my posts. horse...this is a socawarriors community...handle yuhself. is people on dis board yuh go be drinkin' beers with when we handle it in Germany...in person or in spirit :beermug: :beermug:
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Filho and Kicker allya playin BAD cop BAD cop or wha ???
AND by the way DONT EVER PM me again, say what ya have to say here......WE COOL ????
ok I said cool yuhself......
man riling yuh up for the sake of a lil forum argument.....and yuh takin' it further than necessary......
no need to be a child about it...iz big men on here
relax......
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it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.copycat this copycat that.AMERICA IS AH RACIST f**kKIN COUNTRY.accordin to morvant,just drive tru de states like ohio and iowa and carolina.they doh even like they own f**kkin people.
lewwe move big and done this nuh. we starting to sound lil' crazy. no need to insult yuh own people capodetutticapi. everyone here agrees there is a lot of racism in america...we all said that..clear and bold. that was not the issue with the post. even if you disagree with someone's opinion...why yuh hadda move on all dat hate. yuh accusin' americans of dislikin their own people and yuh movin' the same way..
peace nah man. i not on no dread scenes with nobody and i eh pretending to judge nobody based on a few lines they might write in a post. have a :beermug: :beermug: on me and we go bounce up on a next therad and talk some ball instead
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You see
I knew it was JUST kicks you and ya pardner was on
and NOT to encourage debate.
it was for debate, men had valid views (hence why I said for the sake of a forum argument).......comprehension skills ? People will use language sometimes to rile up the other from time to time...but it's mostly for kicks, nothing personal.....if you pay attention to what is really being said you would refrain from acting like a child as you did.
people disagree when they have their own opinion........and they will argue it to be heard to bring out the best in other person, but it brought out the worst in you it seems.....
It's all old talk and banter in the end anyway....
so there was no need to get personal as you did.......who cares anyway, I out !!
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all yuh ever consider entering politricks?
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all yuh ever consider entering politricks?
developing the manifesto as we speak
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man riling yuh up for the sake of a lil forum argument.....and yuh takin' it further than necessary......
no need to be a child about it...iz big men on here
relax......
and I am the CHILD HERE............... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
You see the FACTS have presented themselves
I knew it was JUST kicks you and ya pardner was on
and NOT to encourage debate.
I am REALLY dun now
horse...have you read anything I wrote at all??? i was never on no kix. if you read my posts, you will see that. you will also see that I have spent way to much time trying to maintain the peace only to see you get more and more vex. i still cyah understand wha' really went on there. take win yes...you on some kind of trip and i cyah really follow. i mean it when I say take one yes... :beermug:
we hadda have some common ground somewhere...maybe today was not the day to find it. respect
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america so freggin racist
it have blacks from the south who doh like blacks from de north who doh like de midwest blacks who doh like de blacks from de west.
no race gets along in harmony here
maybe in new york and florida but as far as the country goes
take ah roadtrip and see fuh yuhself
Is this an example of racism? the only people you mentioned here are blacks.
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i think that is actually regionalism. we have that in trinidad too.
allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?
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allyuh men have meh laughing here...West yuh real sensitive today boy...relax son. kicker and Filho...ease up nah ;D
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allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?
Yeah is true... and dey doh like to bathe.....
South ppl ah kicksin eh... :P
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i think that is actually regionalism. we have that in trinidad too.
allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?
:rotfl: :rotfl: good one :rotfl: ah go commit that one to memory for yuh ass.
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note: i from south and now living in the other south (ATL).
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allyuh didn't know that all them people from south is backwards bush people?
Yeah is true... and dey doh like to bathe.....
South ppl ah kicksin eh... :P
:rotfl: yeah...we have some sayings for allyuh crazy North ppl too and yuh lack of hospitality :rotfl:
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note: i from south and now living in the other south (ATL).
I in the ATL too. In the Northern part ;D
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i living in marietta, working in norcross, working out in sandy springs, playing football in roswell, doing mba classes at GSU in alpharetta. that north enough for you?
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i living in marietta, working in norcross, working out in sandy springs, playing football in roswell, doing mba classes at GSU in alpharetta. that north enough for you?
I still more North than that...try Cumming ;D :beermug:
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i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.
is your name Dick Weiner?
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i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.
is your name Dick Weiner?
I live in ATL for 4 years...
wha bout yuh driving up to Buckhead to go Lenox Mall... and de exit sign for de 400 saying:
Buckhead
Cumming
1 Mile
LOL :rotfl:
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i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.
is your name Dick Weiner?
is because ah the name why I move dey ;D
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we need to organize a ATL soca warriors lime/small goal. me eh know no trini's here though. i think they in hiding in the corporate glass towers.
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i glad i doh live there just because of the name of the place. never went there either.
is your name Dick Weiner?
I live in ATL for 4 years...
wha bout yuh driving up to Buckhead to go Lenox Mall... and de exit sign for de 400 saying:
Buckhead
Cumming
1 Mile
LOL :rotfl:
I was wukkin dong dey for a couple weeks last year...I drivin troo buckhead headin fuh downtown...I see dat sign and remember thinkin "boy dis is such ah nice upscale area, how dem go have dat stink sign rong here so?'" :D
wow...dis thread eh playin it zig off on ah whole next tangent....
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america so freggin racist
it have blacks from the south who doh like blacks from de north who doh like de midwest blacks who doh like de blacks from de west.
no race gets along in harmony here
maybe in new york and florida but as far as the country goes
take ah roadtrip and see fuh yuhself
Is this an example of racism? the only people you mentioned here are blacks.
its and example of extreme racism because they were convinced that they were actually different people.
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yea i up for an Atl small goal meet up, who organising?
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i know of 3 decent open fields.
1. noonday park, marietta (FRESH TURF!)
2. terell mill park, marietta
3. piedmont park, downtown
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i know of 3 decent open fields.
1. noonday park, marietta (FRESH TURF!)
2. terell mill park, marietta
3. piedmont park, downtown
de first 2 fields cool...Piedmont Pk is bullaman territory.
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de first 2 fields cool...Piedmont Pk is bullaman territory.
they doh come on the football fields. it is have some nice looking woman taking sun on near them though.
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it hav some real chupid f**kkin trini on this site who does adore f**kkin american.copycat this copycat that.AMERICA IS AH RACIST f**kKIN COUNTRY.accordin to morvant,just drive tru de states like ohio and iowa and carolina.they doh even like they own f**kkin people.
lewwe move big and done this nuh. we starting to sound lil' crazy. no need to insult yuh own people capodetutticapi. everyone here agrees there is a lot of racism in america...we all said that..clear and bold. that was not the issue with the post. even if you disagree with someone's opinion...why yuh hadda move on all dat hate. yuh accusin' americans of dislikin their own people and yuh movin' the same way..
peace nah man. i not on no dread scenes with nobody and i eh pretending to judge nobody based on a few lines they might write in a post. have a :beermug: :beermug: on me and we go bounce up on a next therad and talk some ball instead
filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de fuk is dis.these people too fukkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.
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filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de f**k is dis.these people too f**kkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.
Boss there will always be evils in every society......but in the midst of the evils yuh could find some good too.....you live here in the States, so you obviously found some good (in addition to workin'...I'm sure you have a life outside of work)....so just do you....doh study anybody, and doh let yuh blood boil unless yuh willing to do something about it.....seen ?
People who seem to "worship" the States, might seem blind to the evils that you talk about, but they're probably just more concerned with focussing on the good that can be found in the midst of it, and being positive..........Better off giving them the benefit of the doubt and carrying on doing your thing.......than assuming worse, getting worked up.... and spewin' hate......
That's how I see it. bless....... :beermug:
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filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de f**k is dis.these people too f**kkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.
Boss there will always be evils in every society......but in the midst of the evils yuh could find some good too.....you live here in the States, so you obviously found some good (in addition to workin'...I'm sure you have a life outside of work)....so just do you....doh study anybody, and doh let yuh blood boil unless yuh willing to do something about it.....seen ?
People who seem to "worship" the States, might seem blind to the evils that you talk about, but they're probably just more concerned with focussing on the good that can be found in the midst of it, and being positive..........Better off giving them the benefit of the doubt and carrying on doing your thing.......than assuming worse. getting workd up.... and spewin' hate......
That's how I see it. bless....... :beermug:
yuh have ah valid point.if ah really take them on ah might dead b4 meh time.
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de first 2 fields cool...Piedmont Pk is bullaman territory.
they doh come on the football fields. it is have some nice looking woman taking sun on near them though.
WELL AH IN DAT
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filho yuh know wuh is my biggest grouse in life,yuh know wuh does make meh blood boil.HYPOCRISY.everybody does want to look up to usa as a great nation with high values and high standard of livin,but the truth is america,is wolf in sheep clothin.they want iran and korea to stop makin nukes but yet they(usa)makin them.they not only makin nukes,they makin chemical and biological as well.that is beside the point.they fightin terrorism,go after bin laden,why target iraq.saddam had nothin to do with wtc.and in my opinion osama really had nothin to do in wtc.he is ah pawn.people does want to worship usa,dis place worse than sodom and gomorra.man marryin man,woman bullin 10 year old,man downloadin children gettin rape,wuh de f**k is dis.these people too f**kkin evil.de typical american in my book is mentally retarded.they quicker take better care of ah dog or ah cyat than feed hungry lil children.dis place only good fuh one thing.work.
Boss there will always be evils in every society......but in the midst of the evils yuh could find some good too.....you live here in the States, so you obviously found some good (in addition to workin'...I'm sure you have a life outside of work)....so just do you....doh study anybody, and doh let yuh blood boil unless yuh willing to do something about it.....seen ?
People who seem to "worship" the States, might seem blind to the evils that you talk about, but they're probably just more concerned with focussing on the good that can be found in the midst of it, and being positive..........Better off giving them the benefit of the doubt and carrying on doing your thing.......than assuming worse. getting workd up.... and spewin' hate......
That's how I see it. bless....... :beermug:
yuh have ah valid point.if ah really take them on ah might dead b4 meh time.
peace :beermug:
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he there pompey,kicker.
I have my information from a coloured(heard that was a freak out word in the usa,pffff)girl who was raised in holland and now lives with her american husband in the usa.a better example you cant get i think.
but ok ,no problemo!
everybody has got his/her own opinion about this.
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this thread is kinda ironic since it will expose our own biases and ignorance...most have no clue what they are talking about and their answers to this question are based on guessing and broad generalizations...every country has a racist element...do not let the press tell you who is more racist than who. just because their is less racism in a football stadium does not say squat about the attitudes of the general public.....I've been to a lot of places and the greatest racism I have ever experienced is in Brazil...but Brazil does not have a particularly racist reputation, and I certainly do not think there is more racism there than anywhere else. Racists from their ignorant opinions by using broad generalizations and using a few negative examples and attributing it to everyone of a certain ilk...and that is exactly what we doing on this thread....
Funny you should say Brazil. My cousin (he's there right now) have been going to Brazil every year now for the past 5-6 years for the winter (3-4 months). The main reason he goes there other than he now has a house there is the fact that as he says "it the most comfortable place i've ever been.. he claims that white, black green blue.. all live better together, than he's ever experienced. Even better than the way he remembered it being in trinidad. He says that he does not get the feeling that he's black. or judged or identified by the colour of his skin or the curl of his hair. He referred to by his name and not his features (the black guy).
I'll have to ask him when we speak next if his judgment is based on his eyes being clouded by all the bubblenuts.. on the copa beaches.
Thank God yuh cousin living happy in Brazil. Buh lemme tell yuh sumting...Brazil have over 240 color gardations and guess who is always at the bottom on the list...Blacks. It eh sumting nice to know buh tings changing...it bong tuh change out dey because is black and mixtures of black playing ball out dey. Yuh say whatever, buh anywhere yuh go where there is white and black, there will be some form of discrimination on both sides of the fence. And what about T&T? Yuh tink dem French Creoles and Shackoblanc (whitey cacaroach) Backra Johnnie's eh racist? Yuh tink dem Chinee and dem eh racist? Yuh tink dem fair-skinned Indo-trinidadians want anyting tuh do with dey own black Indians? Some people does look like dey eh racist buh jes tell dem dat yuh in love wid dey son or daughter then yuh go see wey barley grow. Always remember the words of the Master: Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove...
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as this thread has popped up again, can i say thanks for talking about Crash.
I watched it the other night and thought it was a brilliant film. Really clever, without trying to sound like a film critic, they used irony brilliantly to show the hypocrisy or racism.
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Eto'o's great belly
Fazeer Mohammed
Monday, April 17th 2006
Samuel Eto'o has real belly, boy.
The prolific striker won't be at the World Cup finals this year after Cameroon were eliminated in a heartbreaking finale to their qualifying campaign last October. Yet despite that crushing disappointment, he continues to get the better of some of the most accomplished defenders in the world, scoring 24 goals so far this season for runaway Spanish league leaders Barcelona.
But my admiration for him has more to with his intestinal fortitude in the face of almost constant racial abuse in the Primera Liga than his obvious skill at the very highest level. It is a triumph of his character to become one of the best strikers in the world in an environment where racist taunting by spectators - and even other players-is treated with nothing more than token resistance by administrators who proudly pat themselves on the back as guardians of the beautiful game.
Just consider what Eto'o and so many non-white players plying their trade throughout Europe have to endure.
In Spain, where a prominent coach was so comfortable in the country's festering environment of intolerance that he felt no remorse over his disparaging remarks towards a black opponent, it is almost a national pastime to spend an afternoon cheering for the home team and insulting players from Africa and the Middle East in the most vile terms possible.
Monkey chants, bananas being thrown onto the field and a host of verbal insults are all part of the fare in a land that delights in portraying itself as a bastion of Western enlightenment and civility. Most times, the victims of the abuse are consoled by the backing of their teammates and the belief that it is only a vocal minority who are stooping to the level of the gutter.
But every now and then, it becomes too much to bear.
Earlier this season, Eto'o could take it no more in a game at Real Zaragoza. The intensity and persistent nature of the tirade from thousands of animals in the stands was such that he wanted to leave the field there and then, only staying on and continuing with the game at the urging of teammates, officials and opponents. Only two weeks ago, in Barcelona's visit to Racing Santander, the treatment was the same.
And what has been the response from Primera Liga officials to all of this?
Zaragoza were fined the princely sum of US$10,890, while Santander's coffers were supposed to have been depleted by the sum of US$7,260. The combined totals of those fines would only amount to a fraction of a top footballer's weekly wages and, of course, this is all assuming that the penalties were actually enforced given that almost everyone has the right of appeal against any punishment.
So if the Spanish are happily treating this disgraceful practice with kid gloves, it is only reasonable to expect that the world body, FIFA, whose motto is "For the Good of the Game," are coming down on their affiliates like a ton of bricks.
Nothing of the sort. In fact, if a player ingests a banned substance, inadvertently or otherwise, he can be suspended from the game for more than a year. But if spectators at a particular venue become habitual in abusing players or other spectators on the basis of the colour of their skin, the worse that they can expect is a financial penalty that roughly amounts to the cost of the total amount of popcorn sold on a given afternoon.
The Spaniards can take consolation in the fact that they are not alone in Europe in effectively condoning racists in their terraces. For all of the superficial sloganeering about "Kicking Out Racism" and that sort of thing, bigotry remains alive and well in arenas from the westernmost tip of England to the easternmost point in Russia.
A story in yesterday's Express described the treatment meted out to a Brazilian player, Vava, by opposing players and supporters in Bulgaria.
In France, Holland, Germany and England-all countries at the vanguard of the sort of progressive thinking that we are told are characteristic of the developed world - football stadia are magnets for the scum of society while officialdom tries to pretend it isn't all that bad.
To be fair, from their point of view, it is really no big deal because the ones targeted for abuse and insults are just a bunch of minorities anyway. There is no need for any major upheaval because the game is still flourishing as a multi-billion-dollar business, so even FIFA, ensconced in their headquarters in sophisticated and cultured Zurich, hardly feel the game is threatened by a few "n" words and the occasional brawl.
So how do you get the football jefes to rake the clubs of offending supporters over the coals? That's a tough one, because unless the people of real power and influence are themselves the victims of such vitriol, then there is no real motivation to respond.
The most basic instinct in mankind is self-preservation, and until the power-brokers of football are made to feel the deep personal offence of racist abuse, they will continue to respond with a superficiality that amounts to nothing more than tacit approval of such reprehensible behaviour.
Either that, or Eto'o and others not just threatening to walk off the field, but really doing it on a stage where it will really make an impact, like the finals of the Champions League or World Cup.
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Dais ah hell of a vicious circle oui
Club owners need the ticket paying rednecks to be able to offer big contracts,,,, star players big contracts getting paid from ticket sales funded by same rednecks.
Tough call for all involved
...at some point, dignity hadda flex over de money
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Dem jokey fines dem does be giving dem club does make you want to wonder if dey serious. Real small money. From the time they start loosing points, yuh go see how dey go shape up. And one ting does drive Eto'o......pure bad mind. After how Real treat him....all dem rasict noises.......he damn bitter and dat does cause him to perform. When he being outspoken because of it ppl does want to call de man arrogant and ting. You ever notice how fired up he does be for the classico?? How he does act when he score against real?? Bad Mind IYMC!! I remember a time he say "Beckham might be better looking.....but I am a better player....on the field, which one really matters??" :rotfl:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwpO-nnFY9g
take a watch :(
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
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Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??
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Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??
they might give funny looks but nothing to worry about......theres alot of italians that go to my college....sometimes when i wear my italy del piero jersey they all give me funny looks......half of them wear italia football jackets, bags or t-shirts but i know none of them dont even know their own squad going to de WC.
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Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??
they might give funny looks but nothing to worry about......theres alot of italians that go to my college....sometimes when i wear my italy del piero jersey they all give me funny looks......half of them wear italia football jackets, bags or t-shirts but i know none of them dont even know their own squad going to de WC.
thanks for the feedback, me i more fraid the italian hooligan than any other set
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?
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Nice
Ive got tickets to Italy/Ghana in the Italy federation section
You guys think i should be worried??
they might give funny looks but nothing to worry about......theres alot of italians that go to my college....sometimes when i wear my italy del piero jersey they all give me funny looks......half of them wear italia football jackets, bags or t-shirts but i know none of them dont even know their own squad going to de WC.
thanks for the feedback, me i more fraid the italian hooligan than any other set
well boy, look like de english still have the champoinship...but polish and germans runnin close second
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149285033712&call_pageid=968332188492&StarSource=RSS
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Eh ...........I used to back Italy hard back in Trinidad from 1986 - 1993..............That changed abruptly for WC 94. There supporters in Canada real racist, after that meh nah back them at alllllllllllll.....I lose off a dem real bad. They are the Potugese are the worst for smiling up and bad talking black people .......
Yeah Racism have to stop especailly wid Football
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Ah hope France get to play Spain
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dem shud ban football in Spain ...ah know dey have racism all over but dem spanish and dem take de cake ...is ah shame dat in dis day and age dey allow bunch ah white trash to geh away with sh!t like dat ...ting like dat does make meh blood crawl .....
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?
It was just highly amusing that the narrator said that most Americans would be appalled at the racial displays in Europe seeing as the U.S has one of the worst track records when it comes to skin colour.
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Ah hope France get to play Spain
Same thing I was thinking. Buh Henry Eenglish real good, eh?
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Ah hope France get to play Spain
Same thing I was thinking. Buh Henry Eenglish real good, eh?
of course is english would be good ;D ;D
This racism shit, Im just fed up with it, its just normalpart of football now(in some places) , sadly.
I dont think its a problem(or a big problem) in the Prem thou lower leagues yes.
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Even if the video is exaggerated as the media sometimes do, the fact that it exist at all is sad. I am so disappointed really and trully sad
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realy is something sad..
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?
It was just highly amusing that the narrator said that most Americans would be appalled at the racial displays in Europe seeing as the U.S has one of the worst track records when it comes to skin colour.
I think he meant that Americans would be appalled at the racial displays and that Europe has not had a civil rights movement in spite of such......which is a good point....say what you wish about racism and the U.S., that sh*t would not fly here in the States. (of course the black population is alot more significant here in the U.S.)...but if that sh*t took place in the NFL, NBA or any American sport, trust me, the league would not go on as is..........there would be a movement of some sort.
I keep saying, the white players are the ones that have to stand up for the minorities.....that's the only way any impact will be made. If the black players complain, it's like so what...obviously they will complain....but when the white players stand up and walk out on games/teams, then people will wake up and realize it's not a black problem, it's just a problem.....
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
who do you suggest take the high moral ground ?
It was just highly amusing that the narrator said that most Americans would be appalled at the racial displays in Europe seeing as the U.S has one of the worst track records when it comes to skin colour.
No. What the narrator was saying is that TODAY in America those things would not be tolerated, while people in other countries are very complacent about whats going on. You would never see shit like that happening during a Superbowl or NBA final and if it did, the authorities would act on it because there would be a very loud outcry about it.
edit:yeah...what kicker said... ;)
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I keep saying, the white players are the ones that have to stand up for the minorities.....that's the only way any impact will be made. If the black players complain, it's like so what...obviously they will complain....but when the white players stand up and walk out on games/teams, then people will wake up and realize it's not a black problem, it's just a problem.....
Very true. But when there are coaches like the Spanish coach using racist remarks to incite their players to perform...what then? I think it's hard for the white players to empathise with the black ones because in the video it was always the fellow black players rushing to the aid even if the victim was on the opposite team.
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What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.
They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:
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How could people hate ah man beacuse of the colour of his skin and over look his skill on the pitch? Next thing Sepp Blater is ah Grand Wiszard in thee Klan and Jack is he House slaves yes! LOL Nah...But it has to stop... leh them come around some real man from thee Beetom with tha holigan bussiness..is only chop passing yes! lol
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What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.
They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:
lol True. Buh ah wonder if is worse to have sombody blatantly tell yuh dey eh like yuh or petend dey like yuh n doing ting behine yuh back. ??? At least with the former yuh might know who tuh go rong n who not tuh go rong, ent?
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I keep saying, the white players are the ones that have to stand up for the minorities.....that's the only way any impact will be made. If the black players complain, it's like so what...obviously they will complain....but when the white players stand up and walk out on games/teams, then people will wake up and realize it's not a black problem, it's just a problem.....
Very true. But when there are coaches like the Spanish coach using racist remarks to incite their players to perform...what then? I think it's hard for the white players to empathise with the black ones because in the video it was always the fellow black players rushing to the aid even if the victim was on the opposite team.
Soldier the racist bussiness is still in effect... it's just on a higher level it kinda hidden now! They don't wear white or hooded hats... which makes it more dangerous!
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What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.
They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:
haha...cynical, but there's some truth to that.
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Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact! ;D
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What the narrator was saying in code is that Europe after all these years have learned nothing from the US and the civil rights movement.
They ent learn to hide the racism like the US has. Dey backward :devil:
lol True. Buh ah wonder if is worse to have sombody blatantly tell yuh dey eh like yuh or petend dey like yuh n doing ting behine yuh back. ??? At least with the former yuh might know who tuh go rong n who not tuh go rong, ent?
I want to know. But if they ent open I does figure it out
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Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact! ;D
Dais your racism testing?? :rotfl:
You is ah hands on scientist or wha
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!
I think Kingman was just joking......he's just in support of sampling all the flavours....as am I. ;D
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
Kingman ah guess that is yuh rational when yuh walking down the road with ah White woman.....and ah Black woman say "wah yuh doing with she my Black King ???"
Yuh go say...."Oman...is change I tryin to change the world yes" :rotfl:
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Kingman movin smart ;D
He mus be like he blondies and brunettes...so he lookin to bed some tings to create 'world peace and harmony' :devil:
He like ah missionary.....and he spreadin goodwill through the missionary
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
Kingman ah guess that is yuh rational when yuh walking down the road with ah White woman.....and ah Black woman say "wah yuh doing with she my Black King ???"
Yuh go say...."Oman...is change I tryin to change the world yes" :rotfl:
:rotfl: :beermug: I like that one. But actually, my girlfriend is Latino. I know I know....but she not on them things.
Kingman
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I think Kingman was just joking......he's just in support of sampling all the flavours....as am I. ;D
::) Okay then. Ah hope he was really joking in truth.
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
I go do one more test an ah gone. Solider but some ah we does really like like monkey yuh know! LOL Yuh see we racist againts we own self! :rotfl: I hear silents! Weh thee music! Ah gone!
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
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Now...y am i upset that this video was done. well caus ei ma because it was american. they insinuationg they not as racist as eurpoe. dont mind u during the second world war..while france had black commanders in thier ranks not one american black soldier coudl ahve served is country. saved the much bragged about tuskegee airmen. that was an abberation. even in the hurricane katrina incident it wa sblanat if not racisim , than negelect which they implied in the video is one and the same. they just wnat somehting to talk about. and trust me i lived long enough in the states to know.dat shit still goes on. it have some parts of the states black ppl cant go. and for get black for a second now everyoen with a sari, turban, hijab are open to attack cause now de new bad ppl are the"towel heads" as they calle dby alot of americans. everyone from time immoriall.... every single group be it blakc white or in between have discrimminated agsint someone else. white agsint black white agaisnt white and black agasint white and black and so on. so when these self rightous americans.do somethign liek this..sorry but tis jus either to find somehting to do..or a left wing political agena. because it seems all of the american networks spill policital propaganda out . if ANY ONE OF U ISTENS TO DAT "NETWORK" CALLED FOX FOR NEWS. U JUST LISTENING O WHAT BUSH WHATS TO U HEAR...
SO THOUGH THE PROBLEM IS REAL..THIS VIDEO COULD KISS MY MULTICULTURAL AND MULTIENTHIC ASS
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids. right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p
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Now...y am i upset that this video was done. well caus ei ma because it was american. they insinuationg they not as racist as eurpoe. dont mind u during the second world war..while france had black commanders in thier ranks not one american black soldier coudl ahve served is country. saved the much bragged about tuskegee airmen. that was an abberation. even in the hurricane katrina incident it wa sblanat if not racisim , than negelect which they implied in the video is one and the same. they just wnat somehting to talk about. and trust me i lived long enough in the states to know.dat shit still goes on. it have some parts of the states black ppl cant go. and for get black for a second now everyoen with a sari, turban, hijab are open to attack cause now de new bad ppl are the"towel heads" as they calle dby alot of americans. everyone from time immoriall.... every single group be it blakc white or in between have discrimminated agsint someone else. white agsint black white agaisnt white and black agasint white and black and so on. so when these self rightous americans.do somethign liek this..sorry but tis jus either to find somehting to do..or a left wing political agena. because it seems all of the american networks spill policital propaganda out . if ANY ONE OF U ISTENS TO DAT "NETWORK" CALLED FOX FOR NEWS. U JUST LISTENING O WHAT BUSH WHATS TO U HEAR...
SO THOUGH THE PROBLEM IS REAL..THIS VIDEO COULD KISS MY MULTICULTURAL AND MULTIENTHIC ASS
everything that you've said is irrelevant to the fact that there is a race problem in European football.....and that is what the video was about. Despite the agenda, the news item was legit. (of course sensationalized)....but legit nevertheless.....help me if I missed your point.
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Unfortunately the problem is not just racism but bigotry in general.
As long as men are different from each other there will always be the idiots who will seek to hurt those that are different from themselves to compensate for their own inadequacies.
It may be based on race, religion, nationality or sexual orientation but it's all the same.
All you can really do is to NEVER tolerate bigotry in any form and teach your children to do the same.
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Unfortunately the problem is not just racism but bigotry in general.
As long as men are different from each other there will always be the idiots who will seek to hurt those that are different from themselves to compensate for their own inadequacies.
It may be based on race, religion, nationality or sexual orientation but it's all the same.
All you can really do is to NEVER tolerate bigotry in any form and teach your children to do the same.
I don't think the problem is that people are different from eachother...there has always and will always be differences present. The problem arises when one group think that because of those differences, they are therfore superior.
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!
I think he was joking too, especially as he said men only, so men could have all the fruit in the bowl. :rotfl:
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The sad part is they give the coach a 5000 fine for saying that Henry is a piece of shit (even though it was on public television). Are you serious ::) ??? >:( f**king ehh!!!
I remember going to see a game in Texas and there were some spanish speaking people in the stadium. The referee was a black man and he made a call (which happen to be a legit call) and they shouted........."get off the field you dirty nigga." He was the only black man on the field and I am sure he heard. I was shocked. I turned around and when they saw the look on my face they started walking away. I could not believe it. It was like if they were of Caucasian decent (meaning, as if they not black/minority themselves).
Another time I in line about to fly to Las Vagas on vacation. I was skipped in the line from two ladies and a kid from Peurto Rico. So I pushed myself back infront of them. The first thing I remember the lady telling me is that I look like a monkey. I almost swang a left at her, but I laughed and took my spot back.
We honestly have to do something about this man. It is sickening. :'( >:( The beauty of this world is different cultures and ethnicity. There is a purpose of that. We need to diversify the world.
I think all black men should try to get a woman from a different race/background (inter-racial marriages). I believe this is a good way to slowly irradicate this sad scenario.
Kingman
Ah was with yuh up until yuh ay dat. That's just retarded. Race-mixing is nothing new to the world and yet the racism persists. Southern Spain was ruled by the Moors for centuries and there was alot of race mixing and yet still Spain is still very racial. 20% of TnT's population is mixed and yet people still talk about "coolie" n "nigga". That suggestion or you was just...WOW!
I think he was joking too, especially as he said men only, so men could have all the fruit in the bowl. :rotfl:
lol if that was to happen it will just get the racists more vex for takin their women :beermug:
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Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact! ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.
If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.
I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.
Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.
Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.
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Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact! ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.
If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.
I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.
Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.
Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.
Ah think de person yuh quoted was joking, yuh know.
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Now...y am i upset that this video was done. well caus ei ma because it was american. they insinuationg they not as racist as eurpoe. dont mind u during the second world war..while france had black commanders in thier ranks not one american black soldier coudl ahve served is country. saved the much bragged about tuskegee airmen. that was an abberation. even in the hurricane katrina incident it wa sblanat if not racisim , than negelect which they implied in the video is one and the same. they just wnat somehting to talk about. and trust me i lived long enough in the states to know.dat shit still goes on. it have some parts of the states black ppl cant go. and for get black for a second now everyoen with a sari, turban, hijab are open to attack cause now de new bad ppl are the"towel heads" as they calle dby alot of americans. everyone from time immoriall.... every single group be it blakc white or in between have discrimminated agsint someone else. white agsint black white agaisnt white and black agasint white and black and so on. so when these self rightous americans.do somethign liek this..sorry but tis jus either to find somehting to do..or a left wing political agena. because it seems all of the american networks spill policital propaganda out . if ANY ONE OF U ISTENS TO DAT "NETWORK" CALLED FOX FOR NEWS. U JUST LISTENING O WHAT BUSH WHATS TO U HEAR...
SO THOUGH THE PROBLEM IS REAL..THIS VIDEO COULD KISS MY MULTICULTURAL AND MULTIENTHIC ASS
everything that you've said is irrelevant to the fact that there is a race problem in European football.....and that is what the video was about. Despite the agenda, the news item was legit. (of course sensationalized)....but legit nevertheless.....help me if I missed your point.
first thing i said was that ia gree..that it have racism..but it have that every friggin way..from eurpoe to america back all de way to trini.. what i was tlkaing about was the fact that the fetaure make it seem liek dais the only place witht hat problem.. my pt is this.which iw a smaking to that other reply.. would u listen to a thief who told u someoen just stole from your house.? even if it is true...what is his purpose..especially we know it already.
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first thing i said was that ia gree..that it have racism..but it have that every friggin way..from eurpoe to america back all de way to trini.. what i was tlkaing about was the fact that the fetaure make it seem liek dais the only place witht hat problem.. my pt is this.which iw a smaking to that other reply.. would u listen to a thief who told u someoen just stole from your house.? even if it is true...what is his purpose..especially we know it already.
the video never implied that Europe is the only place where there is racism.........come on get serious.....no person would ever try to claim that......If that's what you got out of it then that's a product of your own bias. The video segment highlighted a specific real life example of racism in football.
Your complaint against the video was an attempt to discredit the news item by deliberately diverting from the legit aim of the video simply to express an anti-American sentiment, which in itself is not only a form of discrimination on your part.....but totally irrelevant to the issue of racism in football.
I agree with you that "do as I say, but not as I do" can't be taken literally....but I don't think that the post was meant to be purely black & white and taken lieterally either
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I am not sure if anyone posted this as yet but i think it may be helpful for those in Germany for the World Cup:
Here is the 24 hour hotline to call if you feel threatened or are subject to racist attacks while in Germany - (0170) 6 09 42 41.
Also check out this website that was created specially for the WC.
http://www.prevent-racist-attack.org/
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first thing i said was that ia gree..that it have racism..but it have that every friggin way..from eurpoe to america back all de way to trini.. what i was tlkaing about was the fact that the fetaure make it seem liek dais the only place witht hat problem.. my pt is this.which iw a smaking to that other reply.. would u listen to a thief who told u someoen just stole from your house.? even if it is true...what is his purpose..especially we know it already.
the video never implied that Europe is the only place where there is racism.........come on get serious.....no person would ever try to claim that......If that's what you got out of it then that's a product of your own bias. The video segment highlighted a specific real life example of racism in football.
Your complaint against the video was an attempt to discredit the news item by deliberately diverting from the legit aim of the video simply to express an anti-American sentiment, which in itself is not only a form of discrimination on your part.....but totally irrelevant to the issue of racism in football.
I agree with you that "do as I say, but not as I do" can't be taken literally....but I don't think that the post was meant to be purely black & white and taken lieterally either
i wa sjus giving my personal views pertainign to y...i wont get hyped of this particular video. that is what i was saying. i have learnt long ago to ignore to an extent american media. i am sur eothe rplaces have th esame issues.but they have ti down pact. i would have givne more credence to a european expose delaing wiht the same topic. ro after they have thier own about americas challenge wiht this issue.
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids. right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p
I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids. right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p
I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids. right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p
I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.
look..dat is your scene and i eh go fight yuh down....
but you are being a lil' condescending and that is tasteless. you really doh know me and what I up to breds....so relax..take a breath...and don't assume. You would be surprised what many of your compatriots are up to. So before yuh look to disrespect your people....stand up for something and yuh will be surprised who else standing right there with you.
peace
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids. right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p
I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.
look..dat is your scene and i eh go fight yuh down....
but you are being a lil' condescending and that is tasteless. you really doh know me and what I up to breds....so relax..take a breath...and don't assume. You would be surprised what many of your compatriots are up to. So before yuh look to disrespect your people....stand up for something and yuh will be surprised who else standing right there with you.
peace
no fella i eh trying to be condesending at all. i just stating my piece as u did. dais all sorry of i came across dat way. and i stand all the time and usualy i alone. but bless fella
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No justifying it and hopefully not something we will see at the world cup. It just sticks in the throat a bit when it's the americans trying to take the moral high ground on racism. ::)
if a thief tells you that stealing is wrong and to refrain from such activity...is it not still good advice? if you think it would be better to wait on a 'suitable' messenger, you may never get the message.
your a adult i assume the addage do as i say not as i do..is for kids. right is supposed to be incorruptable. the messenger cannot be bigger than the message...and the spirit of the message. p
I hear what you are trying to say about hypocrisy. but get over it....the show (although a bit sensationalized) was far more simple than you give it credit for. The message is legit regardless of who brings it. 'Do as I say, not as I do' was not the point and is not even relevant. The news for the most part delivers the story...what we do is up to us. Even so, if you cannot agree that even the most fallable sinner can show us the path to righteousness, even if it is a path he is incapable of following himself, then you live in a bubble... Right being incorruptable is really idealistic rhetoric...we cannot wait for the messiah for every message..or nothing will ever get done.
i never say anything about messiah nah fella. i knwo is a reality. and i agree is a problem.. i just not listnein to sophistric crap. i know no one is in corruptable nonetheless if i listen to what i say carefully i jus not taking these ppl on. and no matter all ah allyuh who talking now..not going to join any anti raciscim organisation. trinis master talk and no action unless it impingin on they limin. look at our country everyone does talk talk talk,,, any one really doing anything. nope. so messiah or not...this been an issues for centuries. and nuttin eh change..its maybe not overt as it was but it happens in more subtle ways. let me reiterate i agree somehting has to be done. i just not taking advice from ppl who invades other ppl country murder thousands and then keep an air of superiority ..for what OIL. lol nope.as i said let them fix they own house. then i go pay dem any mind on this issue.
look..dat is your scene and i eh go fight yuh down....
but you are being a lil' condescending and that is tasteless. you really doh know me and what I up to breds....so relax..take a breath...and don't assume. You would be surprised what many of your compatriots are up to. So before yuh look to disrespect your people....stand up for something and yuh will be surprised who else standing right there with you.
peace
no fella i eh trying to be condesending at all. i just stating my piece as u did. dais all sorry of i came across dat way. and i stand all the time and usualy i alone. but bless fella
:beermug: :beermug:
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Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact! ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.
If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.
I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.
Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.
Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.
Like you having a bad day or something... relax yuhself and breathe Mr. I was only trying prove that people are sometimes racist in the mind my friend. Vibes it up for the world and take ah drink. :beermug:
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Testing... testing one two! Walk down thee street and hit ah white man ah hard slap and then run as fast as you can... then get into the back of his mind! "That %*%$# ni&ga just hit me where is got damm police! This is a real fact! ;D
Racism is alive and well here in the US but allyuh talking a bunch of shit here.
If anybody hit you in the face you will do the same thing. In fact he would be right to call you whatever he want because that is barbaric behavior.
I also don't agree about all this "code" talk. The point is that minorities in this country do have protections written into law. That is the real legacy of the Civil Rights movement. Everyone knows that the playing field is still not even.
Other people have compared the situation to the NBA etc. They are right, it simply will not happen. In the major leagues of Europe, it happens daily. Worse yet, it goes unpunished.
Rivalry with the US or not, lets be real here. There is no comparison.
Like you having a bad day or something... relax yuhself and breathe Mr. I was only trying prove that people are sometimes racist in the mind my friend. Vibes it up for the world and take ah drink. :beermug:
wehitis..ah feel everybody on edge.....dey tizik.. . i hear dem soldiers does sya the wating is worse . i know y now yes real presssur eind e camp. ::)
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organic man you killing me with the spelling
i am infront my computer here and i want to scream
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organic man you killing me with the spelling
i am infront my computer here and i want to scream
i hear banging your head agasint the pc might help the pain..lol..how was the spelling in this one??
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Interesting...the actual fines for racist fan behavior still seem pathetic, but they accumulate for persistent behavior, plus UEFA could impose heavier punishment. Not really only UEFA's job to fight racism..it occurs in the stadium, but it does not originate nor end there. Besides, you can't bankrupt a club becasue of a group of idiots who may not care that much about the club anyway. I like the diving ban...but are they going to use post-game video evidence??? What ya'll think...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/soccer/07/31/bc.eu.spt.soc.uefa.racism.ap/index.html
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This is a conservative approach they have taken with regards to fines for racist fan behaviour. I suppose this gives them leverage to tighten the screws if this behaviour persists, as you say no need to bankrupt clubs at the onset, but the clubs now have fair notice.
The diving ban seems reasonable, yet post game videos do not seem to be in the mix. Again if the problem persists , hopefully UEFA will re-consider.
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I think the racism thing can be very challenging but FIFA hand all of the confederations affected by it really have to do something about it..........even if it might not be enough. The diving and deception really needs to be cleaned up (even though players have been diving for decades, it really SEEMS to be getting at its worst........to me) because the players that do it are beginning to turn our game into a farce. Gring back the good old days when men were playing the game to score and win, instead of using tactics to lessen a team's manpower and then strike.
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diving is part of de game just like ah spanner
if yuh master the art then so be it
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To me is ah double standard ah man cud watch another man and call him
ah racist word in he face on de streets and geh wid...'freedom of speech',buh if yuh used it on de pitch, it have penalties.It shud be ban throughout, if ah man call yuh ah word starting wid N and rhymes wid trigger, yuh shud have de right tuh buss way he @#$%ing face for free
...in de work place or on de streets....it shudn't have no place for racism in dis world .
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how an organisation embracing a coach who is a confessed rascist by his remarks can expect any credibilty truly escapes me.
How Aragones could stand behind a banner saying say no to racism is a big world class joke !
It is like putting mano benjamin to adjudicate a child murder !
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how an organisation embracing a coach who is a confessed rascist by his remarks can expect any credibilty truly escapes me.
How Aragones could stand behind a banner saying say no to racism is a big world class joke !It is like putting mano benjamin to adjudicate a child murder !
He's ah arsehole that shud geh ban for life >:(
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To me is ah double standard ah man cud watch another man and call him
ah racist word in he face on de streets and geh wid...'freedom of speech',buh if yuh used it on de pitch, it have penalties.It shud be ban throughout, if ah man call yuh ah word starting wid N and rhymes wid trigger, yuh shud have de right tuh buss way he @#$%ing face for free
...in de work place or on de streets....it shudn't have no place for racism in dis world .
yeah yuh saying dat
but you know and I know..you only concerned and give ah shit when is the N word in question right.
as if dat is the only word racist word dat matters..steups
and yuh gone back in Aragiones tail again? ;D
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To me is ah double standard ah man cud watch another man and call him
ah racist word in he face on de streets and geh wid...'freedom of speech',buh if yuh used it on de pitch, it have penalties.It shud be ban throughout, if ah man call yuh ah word starting wid N and rhymes wid trigger, yuh shud have de right tuh buss way he @#$%ing face for free
...in de work place or on de streets....it shudn't have no place for racism in dis world .
yeah yuh saying dat
but you know and I know..you only concerned and give ah shit when is the N word in question right.
as if dat is the only word racist word dat matters..steups
and yuh gone back in Aragiones tail again? ;D
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Read the hightlight before yuh talk nah man.It goes both ways. I calling it based on what going on in de spanish league .How much white players in the spanish league yuh hear complain that racial slurs were made against them? How much black man in de stands yuh see making racist gestures or calling white players ah word starting with H and rhyming with tonky, eh ? And yes ah gorn back in arogiones tail ppl like that shuddn't geh pardon, he eh no 10 yr old that eh know better and he cyar change now,his apology definately fool you,according to response in de past you accept it,not I.
If de spanish league want to show de really serious bout getting rid of racism in football then they shud ban him for life.
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how an organisation embracing a coach who is a confessed rascist by his remarks can expect any credibilty truly escapes me.
How Aragones could stand behind a banner saying say no to racism is a big world class joke !It is like putting mano benjamin to adjudicate a child murder !
He's ah arsehole that shud geh ban for life >:(
Nah, doh ban him. let him continue coaching Spain as they will continue to underachieve, until he gets fired and finds some second-rate team to coach in obscurity and see no success there either. Sounds good on paper.
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scheups.
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-mexicoracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns
Mexican club Santos fined over racist insults
MEXICO CITY, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Mexican first division club Santos Laguna have been fined and given a warning after their fans aimed racist insults at a black player.
The Torreon-based club were fined the equivalent of $25,265 after Monterrey's Panamanian international defender Felipe Baloy was greeted with monkey chants when he touched the ball during the match on Aug 6.
Baloy scored Monterrey's first goal in a 2-2 draw.
The Mexico Football Federation (FMF) said that Santos Laguna had been warned of a possible home ban in case of a repetition.
The club was also ordered to install closed-circuit television in its stadium by the end of the year to help identify possible offenders.
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they shudda jus ban the crowd from goin to the next match . den they will know they cant do it no more.
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scheups.
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-mexicoracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns
Mexican club Santos fined over racist insults
MEXICO CITY, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Mexican first division club Santos Laguna have been fined and given a warning after their fans aimed racist insults at a black player.
The Torreon-based club were fined the equivalent of $25,265 after Monterrey's Panamanian international defender Felipe Baloy was greeted with monkey chants when he touched the ball during the match on Aug 6.
Baloy scored Monterrey's first goal in a 2-2 draw.
The Mexico Football Federation (FMF) said that Santos Laguna had been warned of a possible home ban in case of a repetition.
The club was also ordered to install closed-circuit television in its stadium by the end of the year to help identify possible offenders.
Dat eh now reach hoss. There was a reason Mexico league never had very few black players until recently. Now it have a handful but back in de day....visiting black players from CONCACAF had it very tough in Mexico. On de field of play...it was worse. I remember watchin Jerren Nixon in de Velodrome givin a Mexican national squad pressha...not from football so much...but jes hangin around and givin dem talk. Dem fellas in de backline went ballistic and is so Jerren was harassin dem. Dey call he every slur in de book (ah understand lil spanish). He sure gave as good as he got that night.
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they shudda jus ban the crowd from goin to the next match . den they will know they cant do it no more.
That the best thing you ever post :beermug:
That hits the fans and the clubs revenue.
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i always find it ironic these places hurling the racist insults are places where the majority experience racism themselves from countries like the usa, or in spain's case, have a deep history with racial mixing.
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oh jesus christ... well ah eh surprised with the spanish speaking peoples... especially mexicans... those who are descriminated against will turn and point there fingers at the next man...
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whey.....this ting spreading like a virus....
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scheups.
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=reu-mexicoracism&prov=reuters&type=lgns
Mexican club Santos fined over racist insults
Dat eh now reach hoss. There was a reason Mexico league never had very few black players until recently. Now it have a handful but back in de day....visiting black players from CONCACAF had it very tough in Mexico. On de field of play...it was worse. I remember watchin Jerren Nixon in de Velodrome givin a Mexican national squad pressha...not from football so much...but jes hangin around and givin dem talk. Dem fellas in de backline went ballistic and is so Jerren was harassin dem. Dey call he every slur in de book (ah understand lil spanish). He sure gave as good as he got that night.
Run dat again?
Nixon stand up givin dem talks in spanish?? to the point where they frothin at de mouth??
De man real boss in trute
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Croatia warned on fans' behaviour
Croatia face sanctions if fans racially abuse England's players
Uefa has warned Croatia they could be kicked out of Euro 2008 if fans direct any racism towards England's players.
Fifa charged the Croatian Football Federation with bringing the game into disrepute after fans formed a human swastika during a friendly in Italy.
Ahead of Wednesday's Euro 2008 qualifier in Zagreb, Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "We can impose heavier sanctions if it happens again.
"That ultimately could be exclusion from the competition."
England's black players have been subjected to racist abuse in the past, with Ashley Cole being targeted by Spain fans in a friendly in Madrid.
Uefa has contacted the Croatian government to spell out their warning, while their football federation has also implemented measures to ensure there are no problems against England.
Croatia are keen the match goes ahead without incident because they are making a joint bid with Hungary to host the 2012 European Championship.
The disrepute charge from Fifa followed the swastika incident, which involved 200 supporters at a friendly against Italy in Livorno in August.
Croatia were fined during Euro 2004 over racist banners flown at a game against France.
Gaillard added: "There are new rules, which can lead to exclusion from a competition and docking points in extreme cases. We will monitor events closely.
"Ourselves and Fifa have imposed sanctions and the sanctions will be heavier in the future."
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Rovers praise UEFA action after racist abuse
UEFA have been applauded by Blackburn and football's anti-racism group Kick It Out for imposing a five-match European ban on Nikola Mijailovic.
Wisla Krakow's 24-year-old Serbian defender was punished for taunting striker Benni McCarthy during the UEFA Cup group game in Poland last week.
Blackburn manager Mark Hughes called for strong action to be taken and got his wish.
In a statement, the club said: 'UEFA's decision sends out a clear message that racism will not - and should not - be tolerated in the game.
'We appreciate UEFA's speed in dealing with this important issue.'
South Africa striker McCarthy, 28, squared up to Mijailovic at the end of Blackburn's 2-1 victory and then complained about the treatment he had received.
Kick it Out spokesman Piara Powar said: 'A ban for five matches is strong stuff and very welcome.
'It is the sort of sanction that people across Europe will think, 'There is a message to be learned here'.
'The concern in the past has been that many incidents have gone unpunished.
'It is time we were able to demonstrate that racism is being challenged in European football.
'UEFA are doing a lot of work in this field and this guy (Mijailovic) has been nailed in the right way.
'It seems that Blackburn and other officials were able to produce eye-witness evidence, allowing action to be taken.'
A statement on UEFA's website confirmed: 'Wisla Krakow defender Nikola Mijailovic has been banned by UEFA for five UEFA club competition matches for racial abuse of Blackburn Rovers FC striker Benni McCarthy.'
Mijailovic is now facing missing the rest of the group games and has until Monday to appeal against the ban.
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Fine them some money to and give it to some poor youth club.
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Aragones cleared of racist conduct (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SPORT/football/02/07/spain.aragones/index.html)
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/SPORT/football/02/07/spain.aragones/story.aragones.jpg)
Aragones successfully appealled against the charge that he had been racist.
MADRID, Spain -- Spain coach Luis Aragones has been cleared of racist conduct by a Spanish court after his derogatory remarks about France striker Thierry Henry in October 2004.
"The court found that the Spanish Committee for Sporting Discipline (CEDD) had incorrectly evaluated the evidence," said the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF).
"We now hope that all measures will be taken to clear the good name of the national coach and the RFEF disciplinary committees."
Aragones caused controversy in October 2004 when he was heard during training making a remark about Henry to his then Arsenal team-mate Jose Antonio Reyes.
The 68-year-old Aragones was originally fined 3,000 euros for behavior "contrary to the good order of the sport" by the RFEF.
The offence was upgraded to "conduct which could be considered to be racist" by the government-run CEDD and both Aragones and the RFEF successfully appealed against that decision to the Spanish court.
The RFEF were unable to say, however, whether Aragones would still have to pay the fine for the original charge.
"I went to court because it was a stain on my reputation and because the offense did not exist as some judges believed," said Aragones.
Aragones initially apologised after widespread criticism of his behavior, saying he had not meant to offend anyone and that his conscience was clear.
He stirred further controversy, however, by mounting an energetic defense of his comments before a friendly against England in November 2004.
That match in Madrid was marred by racist abuse of England's black players by sections of the crowd.
Spain play England in a friendly at Old Trafford on Wednesday.
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Scotland: Best reply to racism.
TEAMtalk.com.
St Johnstone hitman Jason Scotland felt he had responded in the best possible way to the "awful" racist abuse he received from Motherwell fans.
About a dozen supporters in Fir Park's main stand twice indulged in abuse when Scotland had possession in the opening stages of the Perth side's 2-1 Tennent's Scottish Cup quarter-final victory on Wednesday.
They were reprimanded by the vast majority of Well fans around them and did not repeat the abuse after police and stewards were alerted.
Scotland then made them suffer with the second goal in the First Division side's thoroughly-deserved victory.
The Trinidad & Tobago international was elevated to national celebrity status last summer as he was the closest Scotland came to the World Cup.
He even had a song written about him that reached the UK Top 40 as his country prepared to take on England.
But he admitted he had been upset by his experience, saying: "That's the first time it has happened to me.
"Obviously I am disappointed because when I played in the World Cup I carried Scotland on my back. And to play in Scotland and get that kind of abuse is just awful.
"To be fair I really didn't take it on, I was just playing my normal game.
"I was just delighted to score the goal that put us in the semi-final.
"I probably heard it but I didn't really pay any attention. The best way to react is with that goal and let my football do the talking."
The former Dundee United striker, who had to leave Tannadice when his work permit application was rejected, feels Saints have a chance of making the final.
With victories over Rangers, Dundee United and Falkirk also under their belts this season, Scotland does not fear Celtic, Hibernian or Dunfermline.
The 28-year-old said: "We played against top teams in the past and we have done well so we fancy our chances against anyone.
"We are delighted to play in the semi-final and play in a big occasion and hopefully put in a big performance.
"People can say all kind of stuff about St Johnstone, that they will batter us, but this was a good result and at St Johnstone we let our football do the talking."
Motherwell boss Maurice Malpas hit out at his side's attitude and performance.
Peter MacDonald gave the visitors a deserved 20th-minute lead and the First Division side had countless chances after Scotland's 72nd-minute header.
Ross McCormack pulled one back with five minutes left and David Clarkson then had a decent penalty shout that referee Mike McCurry appeared to think twice about.
But Well were not worthy of a replay as they struggled to create chances and nullify the Saints attack all night.
Malpas said: "We never did enough to win the game. St Johnstone deserved to go through and it hurts me to say that.
"I wasn't happy with our performance and the manner we went about our business was wrong."
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The more things change the more they stay the same....Keep your head up Jason and respond w/your cleats!
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Here is the goal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yXuQt6nX2Q
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Here is the goal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yXuQt6nX2Q
Great run by his teammate to find him on the cross
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Well Beaten now Well Ashamed
By Firparkcorner
1 Mar 2007
The news that Jason Scotland seemed to be a target for racial abuse during the game against St Johnstone puts the defeat into perspective. The result of a football match becomes irrelevant if accusations of monkey chanting at Fir Park are found to be upheld.
A selection of Thursday's press reports seem to leave no doubt that a number of idiots in the Main Stand behaved in a manner which fills every football fan with disgust and anger. Thankfully, the reports also note that supporters in the vicinity were quick to point out the offenders to the police and our thanks are due to them for reflecting the views of the vast majority.
The police and stewards should now provide an explanation if no one was thrown out of the ground. It is understood that there was no mention of the incident when those charged with crowd safety reported to the club after the match. A club spokesman said on Thursday morning, "The club will be investigating these reports and if it can identify any culprits it will take the strongest possible measures against them. Disgusting behaviour of this type has no place in Fir Park or anywhere else."
Motherwell fans, while despondent, depressed and disappointed in the team's showing, recognise that we were beaten by a better team on the night and wish St Johnstone further success in the competition and hope that Jason Scotland recognises that the racist bigots who have brought shame on our club are not in any way typical of Motherwell fans in general.
A selection from Thursday's press.
The Herald
Sadly, the opening stages were marred by disgraceful racist chanting directed at Jason Scotland, the black St Johnstone striker, from a small section of the main stand.
Monkey noises accompanied his first two touches though the Motherwell fans, to their credit, were quick to alert the police to the matter and it soon ceased. But the perpetrators were not ejected and the club may not have heard the last of the matter.
Dundee Courier
In scenes harking back to the bad old days, the man who helped front the Show Racism the Red Card campaign and was backed by this country when with Trinidad and Tobago in last summer's World Cup, was taunted by monkey chants during what was otherwise a fantastic occasion at Fir Park.
Referring to the treatment he received, the front man said, "I am disappointed because I have carried the name of Scotland on my back and to get abuse here is awful.
Daily Record
Scotland also looked menacing whenever he touched the ball and the Trinidad and Tobago international was also the subject of monkey chants from a small knot of fans in the main stand.
Motherwell fans within earshot summoned stewards and demanded offenders be watched and rooted out. It was a fine example of self-policing from the home fans.
Daily Mail
However, the evening was soured by the home fans' chants at the beginning of the game and the SFA are sure to investigate following the ugly scenes.
Around a dozen home 'supporters' began making monkey noises towards the Trinidad and Tobago international within minutes of the start of the quarter-final tie.
The incident sparked ugly scenes within the main stand as outraged fellow Motherwell fans rounded on the racists.
The angry supporters quickly reported the small group to stewards and although they were not ejected from the ground, there was no more abuse directed at the player.
The Guardian
Jason Scotland enjoyed the last word towards a moronic element of the Motherwell support, the St Johnstone striker scoring the decisive goal here after racist chanting was directed towards him in the early stages of the game.
The opening stages were conspicuous for two things: St Johnstone's willingness to take the game to their opponents and the sickening abuse directed towards Scotland from a section of the main-stand crowd. Monkey noises were clearly audible and, while no police action appeared forthcoming, the fans in question were shouted down by those around them.
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Motherwell apologise for racism
Motherwell have issued an apology to St Johnstone's Jason Scotland, following racist taunts directed at the player during Wednesday's Scottish Cup tie.
Scotland was subjected to abuse from a section of Motherwell fans during Saints' 2-1 victory at Fir Park.
Nearby supporters reported the offending fans and police intervened.
In a statement, Motherwell owner John Boyle said: "These people should never show their faces at Fir Park again and they have no place in football."
Boyle added: "We are utterly appalled by this behaviour by a small group of people who have tarnished the name of our club.
"We are writing to Jason Scotland and St Johnstone today to apologise for this disgusting behaviour which is totally alien to all of us at Motherwell.
We are utterly appalled by this behaviour by a small group of people who have tarnished the name of our club
Motherwell owner John Boyle
"We pride ourselves in being a family club which welcomes everyone to Fir Park.
"The police and stewards took what action they thought appropriate at the time.
"I was told there had been some kind of incident and it had been dealt with quickly but was unaware of the details and the seriousness of it.
"We are making further inquiries today to see if we can identify those involved in order to take action against them.
"We are appealing to our own supporters to help identify the culprits.
"I would be stunned if they are season ticket holders as there has been no evidence of this kind of behaviour in the past.
"We were disappointed to lose the match but we wish Jason Scotland and his team all the best in the Cup.
"They deserved their win and we are sorry if it was soured by the actions of a few idiots."
Martin Rose, chairman of the Motherwell Supporters Trust added: "We are united with the Club in condemning this repugnant behaviour in the strongest possible terms.
"I was in the main stand and raised the matter immediately with the match commander.
"Thankfully, it was nipped in the bud quickly by decent Motherwell fans, stewards and the police."
Story from BBC SPORT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/motherwell/6407937.stm
Published: 2007/03/01 11:58:50 GMT
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http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/newsscript.pl?record=820
MOTHERWELL FC ANTI RACISM DEMONSTRATION AT FIR PARK
1st March 2007
Prior to kick-off at Monday’s SPL match against Hearts, Motherwell will make an official announcement to all fans at Fir Park that racist behaviour will not be tolerated with additional scoreboard statements underpinning this message.
During the warm up session, players from both teams will wear t-shirts with the slogan “Give Racism the Red Card” emblazoned on the front and players will hold up anti-racism cards to all spectators.
John Boyle, director of Motherwell FC said: “We endeavour to continue to offer a very friendly and family atmosphere at Fir Park and I believe that this was an isolated incident. Motherwell has no history of racist behaviour prior to Wednesday’s match. I hope that our anti-racism demonstration on Monday night outlines our commitment against such dreadful behaviour.”
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wow, dais an impressive turn of events
Respect to the true scottish football fans for smothering the mouthbreathers
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http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/newsscript.pl?record=820
MOTHERWELL FC ANTI RACISM DEMONSTRATION AT FIR PARK
1st March 2007
Prior to kick-off at Mondays SPL match against Hearts, Motherwell will make an official announcement to all fans at Fir Park that racist behaviour will not be tolerated with additional scoreboard statements underpinning this message.
During the warm up session, players from both teams will wear t-shirts with the slogan Give Racism the Red Card emblazoned on the front and players will hold up anti-racism cards to all spectators.
John Boyle, director of Motherwell FC said: We endeavour to continue to offer a very friendly and family atmosphere at Fir Park and I believe that this was an isolated incident. Motherwell has no history of racist behaviour prior to Wednesdays match. I hope that our anti-racism demonstration on Monday night outlines our commitment against such dreadful behaviour.
:applause: :applause: here ! here! :beermug:
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Let de boots continue to do de talking bredda! ;)
Warriors have your back! :beermug:
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i didnt think that scottish football fans could exhibit open racism......
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i dint read the article properly before posting. it was only a minority . i tip my off to the motherwell club and its fans who did not condone it and went as far as apologising to jason scotland .
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never know racsim big so in scotland
well done to to motherwell fans :applause:
f**k de racist dem >:(
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never know racsim big so in scotland
well done to to motherwell fans :applause:
f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!! that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.
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never know racsim big so in scotland
well done to to motherwell fans :applause:
f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!! that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.
if yuh was ah military man yuh wouldnt say that. anywhere we go de women like black. ireland, mexico, australia, italy, spain(yes spain) bulgaria, romania. woman does line up just to dance with ah brother in ah club. in australia when ah carrier pull-up it does have women on de pier with signs up asking fuh brothers.
that is one ah de main reasons the MEN doh like we but to say nobody doh like black is ah semi-kakaholish statement. plus they love meh here in de motherland too.
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CONGRATS SCOTTY
GO MALICK
[/b]
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Wrong my brother . i served for one three year enlistment in the 1st armour division stationed at fort benning G.A. and baum holder west germany also fort hood texas it was the most depressing time of my life. yeh i banged alot of white chicks but that didn't mean racism did not exist in europe or in the U.S. and if you were a soldier you would know for sure what i mean . not because women want's to sex you don't necessarily mean they like you or ther'e not racist. if you're still not convinced then look at thomas jefferson.
never know racsim big so in scotland
well done to to motherwell fans :applause:
f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!! that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.
if yuh was ah military man yuh wouldnt say that. anywhere we go de women like black. ireland, mexico, australia, italy, spain(yes spain) bulgaria, romania. woman does line up just to dance with ah brother in ah club. in australia when ah carrier pull-up it does have women on de pier with signs up asking fuh brothers.
that is one ah de main reasons the MEN doh like we but to say nobody doh like black is ah semi-kakaholish statement. plus they love meh here in de motherland too.
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Wrong my brother . i served for one three year enlistment in the 1st armour division stationed at fort benning G.A. and baum holder west germany also fort hood texas it was the most depressing time of my life. yeh i banged alot of white chicks but that didn't mean racism did not exist in europe or in the U.S. and if you were a soldier you would know for sure what i mean . not because women want's to sex you don't necessarily mean they like you or ther'e not racist. if you're still not convinced then look at thomas jefferson.never know racsim big so in scotland
well done to to motherwell fans :applause:
f**k de racist dem >:(
My brother you better know that!!!!!! not only in scotland but the whole of europe north america and in my estimation any white man land, and i will go as far to say trinidad as well.the only reason they don't come out dey face in T&T is because they are the vast minority, but if they were the majority in trinidad, it would've been a horse of a differant colour. i lived in europe and i'am presently residing in the U.S. plus i've traveled extensivly troughout the world. trust me youth no body doh like black no body !!! that is real!!... and i don't take back chat. positive.
if yuh was ah military man yuh wouldnt say that. anywhere we go de women like black. ireland, mexico, australia, italy, spain(yes spain) bulgaria, romania. woman does line up just to dance with ah brother in ah club. in australia when ah carrier pull-up it does have women on de pier with signs up asking fuh brothers.
that is one ah de main reasons the MEN doh like we but to say nobody doh like black is ah semi-kakaholish statement. plus they love meh here in de motherland too.
so that was ah racist wethead ah get in greece :-[
it all making sense now. she was into it too much :'(
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I remember the first time i witness racist monkey chants in Europe, this was in Berlin, Germany.
Hertha Berlin vs Cologne at the olympiastadion 1997, the home fans were making monkey chants at their own black players everytime they touched the ball, quite bizarre indeed but still racism.
Morvant doh get tie up with that one, not because somebody has sex with you it means that they like you.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
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I remember the first time i witness racist monkey chants in Europe, this was in Berlin, Germany.
Hertha Berlin vs Cologne at the olympiastadion 1997, the home fans were making monkey chants at their own black players everytime they touched the ball, quite bizarre indeed but still racism.
Morvant doh get tie up with that one, not because somebody has sex with you it means that they like you.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
Well said my brother,we should not allowed our fragile egos to cloud our judgement,It may not even be that they like brothers,but in love with the idea of being with ah brother.
White women a black mans weakness,especially those in uniform.
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number 20...
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MR Morvant if you want to get kicks i suggest you do so with another subject or another guy, because racism is all to real in my world and i deal with it every day on average and it's no laughing matter or no play thing either. i don't get into the disrespectfull confrontational discusions with any one period, BC it leads to contempt and more disrespect, but i must say you're in serious denial and i'am begining to wonder about your identity. some ppl disguise them selves on line so they could get over to say and do things they could'nt normally say or do in public you have me wondering if that's the case with you, BC any black man or woman or those who considers them selves black who lived or is living in the US or europe would say racism does affect their lives in some shape or fashion. then again some ppl choose to turn a blind eye and act normal like every thing is every thing.i suggest that you go back in history and see what white ppl collectivly has done for the growth and development of black ppl as opposed to their down fall ( slavery countless linchings colonialism economic deprivation the rape and impovrishment of africa the caribbean and brazil ) then you tell me is that enough hate for you or you want more to be convinced. don't be so simple, sex has nothing to do with racism. positive.
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MO: RACIST FANS SHOULD BE JAILED
By Gordon Parks (Daily Record)
MOTHERWELL boss Maurice Malpas last night called for racist fans to be jailed.
Malpas insists the police and courts should take tough action against those who brought shame to his club by racially abusing St Johnstone striker Jason Scotland on Wednesday.
And Celtic manager Gordon Strachan joined the debate by insisting Motherwell should not be held responsible for what happened.
Malpas revealed he will write his own apology. He said: "If we catch them, the police should get involved. If you behaved like that on the high street the police would arrest you so the same should apply here.
"We have done everything we can to find these people.We came out straight away with a statement and didn't stick our head in the sand.
"It can't be condoned or swept under the carpet because it's upsetting for the player. I will write to Jason myself.
"The pleasing thing is the other fans who pointed the finger. They are our true fans andthe culprits aren't.
"What happened has nothing to do with Motherwell and nothing to do with football.
"It was a one-off incident for us but it's a problem because it has happened. It could happen again but hopefully it won't.
"The difficult thing is to stop it but the best thing we can do now is point the finger at the people who did it and get them kicked out of the club.
"We will do something at Monday's game againstHearts to show racism the red card."
A Motherwell spokesman said: "Good information has come into the club from a variety of sources and we have passed all of it on to the police.
"We've been asked about pointing fans out on CCTV but it doesn't have sound.
"It would have been easier for us if this had been a normal home match with season-ticket holders sitting in their usual seats but anyone could pay to get into the ground and sit wherever they liked. We've had anonymous claims that the ground was infiltrated by supporters of a rival club intent on causing trouble and we have passed that on to the police."
Meanwhile, Strachan lashed out at the yob culture that he reckons led to Wednesday's shameful scenes.
Celtic's manager has had several run-ins with fans since returning to Scotland after two decades in England but he refuses to have racism linked with football.
He said: "The colour of the scarf is irrelevant. The fact this incident occured in a football ground is coincidental.
"People who are racists, bigots or morons are that way before they go into any ground. Don't blame Motherwell and look at the bigger picture.
"If you're a racist, you're a racist. The yob culture is creeping in everywhere."
Strachan has written about bust-ups at petrol stations with rival fans in his biography and recently clashed with three yobs in a cinema car park while out with his wife.
He said:"If someone spits at me in the street I don't look at the colour of the scarf they're wearing.It's an irrelevance.
"Some people think they have this licence to behave as they see fit.
"They walk into grounds and abuse players, managers and officials using any kind of language they like. But they would be equally objectionable outside and use the same language in pubs or whatever.
"If you ask me if there's a racism problem within Scottish football, then I would have to answer that I've never heard of one. Don't hold the game responsible for everything that goes wrong with society."
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Ban for supporter accused of racism
MARTIN McMILLAN (Herald)
March 06 2007
A football supporter accused of racially abusing Jason Scotland, the St Johnstone striker, has been banned from all football grounds in the United Kingdom.
Six days after Scotland was subjected to racist chants during last week's Scottish Cup tie between St Johnstone and Motherwell at Fir Park, it is understood he may have been abused by a 59-year-old man during a match against Dundee at Dens Park on February 10.
The unnamed man, a season ticket holder of Dundee FC, was yesterday banned by the club, after pleading not guilty to a charge of aggravated breach of the peace at Dundee Sheriff Court.
He has been ordered to appear again at a later date, and a condition of bail is that he does not attempt to enter any football ground in the UK.
Dundee operations mana-ger, Jim Thomson, said: "We will reconsider the suspension if the man is found not guilty."
The club's board of directors issued a joint statement following the hearing, which read: "Following a complaint made to the club and Tayside Police by Dundee fans regarding alleged racial abuse of St Johnstone player Jason Scotland during February's game at Dens Park, a full investigation, carried out by police and the club, has resulted in a 59-year-old Dundee man being arrested and charged with an aggravated breach of the peace.
"The club were unable to make any comment or take any action until a full internal inquiry had been conducted."
Scotland became a cult hero in the country where he has played for the last four years after he was selected to play for Trinidad and Tobago during last year's World Cup.
Dundee yesterday issued an apology to Scotland, and his club, saying they will "not tolerate racist, sectarian, sexual or bigoted harassment".
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Falkirk midfielder Russell Latapy hopes that anyone who racially abused him during Saturday's 1-1 draw with Hibernian will learn from their errors.
The club have confirmed police were investigating an incident, although there has been no further comment.
"We have to take it in our stride and hopefully the people involved will learn from what they did," said Latapy.
"We have to try and make the situation better and try to cut out the whole racial situation in football."
Reports suggest five people were questioned by police officers.
And a club statement read: "An incident occurred which is currently under investigation by Central Scotland Police.
"Falkirk Football Club along with other SPL football clubs have published a code of 'unacceptable behaviour'.
"The incident was dealt with in accordance with this code."
Latapy, 39, is a former Trinidad & Tobago international and has played in Scotland for Hibs, Rangers and Dundee United before his move to Falkirk in 2003.
"It is unfortunate in this day and age that things like that can still happen but it's all part and parcel of the beautiful game," added the veteran playmaker.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/f/falkirk/6997553.stm
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Falkirk midfielder Russell Latapy hopes that anyone who racially abused him during the 1-1 draw with Hibernian will learn from their errors.
Falkirk confirmed police were investigating an incident during the Clydesdale Bank Premier League clash at the Falkirk Stadium.
Reports claimed a Falkirk fan was among five people questioned by officers.
But former Trinidad and Tobago hero Latapy - a former Hibs player - was in a forgiving mood.
The 39-year-old said: "I heard about it after the game. It is unfortunate in this day and age that things like that can still happen but it's all part and parcel of the beautiful game.
"We have to take it in our stride and hopefully the people involved will learn from what they did.
"We have to try and make the situation better and try to cut out the whole racial situation in football.
"Having said that, we have to learn to forgive and hopefully we can all learn from it."
A club statement read: "An incident occurred today which is currently under investigation by Central Scotland Police.
"Falkirk Football Club along with other SPL football clubs have published a code of 'unacceptable behaviour'.
"The incident was dealt with in accordance with this code."
Central Scotland Police were today unavailable for comment.
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:shameonyou: :shameonyou: :thumbsdown:
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Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
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Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few should define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even in the most tolerant society there will always be idiots.....
Very unfortunate- pretty sure Latapy dealt with it in a classy manner
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Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few should define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even in the most tolerant society there will always be idiots.....
Very unfortunate- pretty sure Latapy dealt with it in a classy manner
Meant to say "shouldn't define the whole"...changed it, but I think you got what I meant.
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Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even the brits are more tolerant than the scotts when it come to diversity, and the irish!! well forget about them, my key breddren lived in ireland for a number of years, he was married to an irish chick who forced him to move closer to her family, so he left sunny badoes to cloudy gloomy ireland. he told me that he'll never make that mistake again and how horribly racist the irish were, this comming from a man who lived in new jersey for over a dacade. so he's back in Barbados wid his new wife, guess where she's from. that's right , scottland.
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Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even the brits are more tolerant than the scotts when it come to diversity, and the irish!! well forget about them, my key breddren lived in ireland for a number of years, he was married to an irish chick who forced him to move closer to her family, so he left sunny badoes to cloudy gloomy ireland. he told me that he'll never make that mistake again and how horribly racist the irish were, this comming from a man who lived in new jersey for over a dacade. so he's back in Barbados wid his new wife, guess where she's from. that's right , scottland.
Lol...
Well the irish I can understand, even the English once thought of them as apes...so nothing new about the oppressed themselves becoming oppressor when given the opportunity. Why you think they enjoy such strained relations with blacks here in America? They finally found a people who in the eyes of the mainstream, were lower down the ethnic totem pole than themselves.
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should we put our army on alert ???....ah mean this is not manning or panday yuh know...this is royalty
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should we put our army on alert ???....ah mean this is not manning or panday yuh know...this is royalty
Fuh real lol
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Unbelievable news. I was always under the impression that Scotland was perhaps the most racially tolerant of the British isles. Perhaps that was naive, but I think of my own interaction with the Scottish missionary family I knew in Trinidad, the experiences of our footballers over there, my interaction with the Scottish fans in Germany last year etc. The actions of a few shouldn't define the whole...I hope that is applicable here as well.
Even the brits are more tolerant than the scotts when it come to diversity, and the irish!! well forget about them, my key breddren lived in ireland for a number of years, he was married to an irish chick who forced him to move closer to her family, so he left sunny badoes to cloudy gloomy ireland. he told me that he'll never make that mistake again and how horribly racist the irish were, this comming from a man who lived in new jersey for over a dacade. so he's back in Barbados wid his new wife, guess where she's from. that's right , scottland.
Where do you come up wid dis shit.
1. They are Scots, not Scotts
2. Scots are Brits, since Scotland is a part of the British Isles
3. How on earth does your story prove that Scots are racist?
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Two held over Falkirk abuse probe
BBC Sport
Two football fans are due to appear in court after being charged with racially aggravated breaches of the peace at Falkirk's SPL match against Hibernian.
The men, a 49-year-old Hibs supporter and a Falkirk fan, 41, were arrested and remanded in custody following Saturday's game.
Falkirk midfielder Russell Latapy was allegedly racially abused during the 1-1 draw.
The men are among five set to appear at Falkirk Sheriff Court on Monday.
A spokesman for Central Scotland Police said four Hibs supporters had been arrested, including the man charged with the racially motivated offence against Latapy.
The other three, a 49-year-old man, another of 46, and a third, aged 30, were charged with breaches of the peace.
The Falkirk supporter, not linked to the other four men, was arrested following reports from supporters to police that he had shouted racist abuse.
Police detained the 41-year-old away from the stadium on Saturday evening after being notified of the alleged offence by home supporters after the match.
Latapy, 39, is a former Trinidad and Tobago international and played for Hibs, Rangers and Dundee United before his move to Falkirk in 2003.
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and they go get off with a slap on the wrist.
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and they go get off with a slap on the wrist.
What penalty do you think would suffice for shouting racial abuse at someone?
Let's not get carried away, likely they'll be banned from the stadium...that works for me.
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Player quits club over racist abuse
AFP
November 2, 2007
BRUSSELS (AFP) - A black African player at FC Brussels has walked out after allegedly being racially abused by the Belgian club's president Johan Vermeersch.
According to Zola Matumona's lawyer, the Congolese secured a release from his contract following: "racist and xenophobic abuse dished out in front of players and coaching staff."
Vermeersch lambasted his players for their poor performances but during his rebuke he reportedly told Matumona to think about other things than "trees and bananas."
ADVERTISEMENT
The incident has seen the club's kit sponsor, South Korean car manufacturer Kia tear up their contract with FC Brussels.
"This incident is such that we can no longer have our image associated with the Brussels club," said Kia's regional manager Benoit Morenne to the Belga news agency.
"We don't want to be associated in any way with racism."
Vermeersch, however, denied on the club's website having made racist comments, although he admitted to having lively exchanges with certain players, including Matumona.
"And if someone has felt hurt by my words then I am sorry because that was never my intention," said Vermeersch.
He did, however, tell Le Soir newspaper that he had spoken of trees and bananas but that it was nothing more than "a joke" to make the player react.
FC Brussels are 15th in the 18-team league after 11 matches having lost eight of those games.
Updated on Friday, Nov 2, 2007 2:39 pm, EDT
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joke this F*%$%$ing MAN HAS TO GO >:( >:(
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just when yuh begin to think that people are getting educated and learn from past mistakes......they does make some assanine comments that does put yuh right back in check..... don't frighten, we know is only hate in allyuh heart.....but we will trod on.....
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As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.
Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.
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As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.
Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.
Yes there re laws, but do not make people think it is that simple. Remember Don Imus, a radio talk show host, made his racial comments against the black baskeball players on the Rudytgers women team and for it he got paid twenty million and was given a new job at ABC.
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Player quits club over racist abuse
AFP
November 2, 2007
BRUSSELS (AFP) - A black African player at FC Brussels has walked out after allegedly being racially abused by the Belgian club's president Johan Vermeersch.
According to Zola Matumona's lawyer, the Congolese secured a release from his contract following: "racist and xenophobic abuse dished out in front of players and coaching staff."
Vermeersch lambasted his players for their poor performances but during his rebuke he reportedly told Matumona to think about other things than "trees and bananas."
ADVERTISEMENT
The incident has seen the club's kit sponsor, South Korean car manufacturer Kia tear up their contract with FC Brussels.
"This incident is such that we can no longer have our image associated with the Brussels club," said Kia's regional manager Benoit Morenne to the Belga news agency.
"We don't want to be associated in any way with racism."
Vermeersch, however, denied on the club's website having made racist comments, although he admitted to having lively exchanges with certain players, including Matumona.
"And if someone has felt hurt by my words then I am sorry because that was never my intention," said Vermeersch.
He did, however, tell Le Soir newspaper that he had spoken of trees and bananas but that it was nothing more than "a joke" to make the player react.
FC Brussels are 15th in the 18-team league after 11 matches having lost eight of those games.
Updated on Friday, Nov 2, 2007 2:39 pm, EDT
Email to a Friend | View Popular
de man say is nutten more than a joke oui!...guess wen dem people in de stands making dem sounds he does be dying with laffter in de owners suite eh! steeeeeeupes
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As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.
Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.
That is old talk PantherX. Don Imus of "nappy headed hoes" fame is back on the radio starting December 3rd. Consequences my @#!
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I doh see nutten wid de man comments...
dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.
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"The incident has seen the club's kit sponsor, South Korean car manufacturer Kia tear up their contract with FC Brussels."
when MORE sponsors do this then maybe people will stop day shit
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BULLATE, BULLATE, no prisoners, none at all, BULLATE. HIGHLY BLESSED.
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I doh see nutten wid de man comments...
dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.
nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment
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I doh see nutten wid de man comments...
dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.
nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment
Lol...I know nuff man dun cuss me and storm off in silence ;D
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I doh see nutten wid de man comments...
dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.
nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment
Lol...I know nuff man dun cuss me and storm off in silence ;D
:whistling:
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I doh see nutten wid de man comments...
dat ah li'l tap jaw wouldn't fix.
nice 1 B&S.....only when I look to quote you and ask you for your interpretation of what the man said, did I see your 'hidden' comment
Lol...I know nuff man dun cuss me and storm off in silence ;D
:whistling:
lol
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this is belgian league. in spain africans have to deal with foolishness this from their own fans while the game plays. and they're in a way bigger league.
my point is they don't quit as quickly..
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Yuh know when Platini was playing, de French man was blaming de selectors after de WC and was saying too many man on de team who not born in France....a clear reference to Tresor and Tigana. Just look at de French team now. :rotfl:
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this is belgian league. in spain africans have to deal with foolishness this from their own fans while the game plays. and they're in a way bigger league.
my point is they don't quit as quickly..
Yea well, while I am not condoning it, in any way, shape or form, the racism by fans is very difficult to control. Difficulties lie in identifying fans and sometimes the number of fans make enforcement of any baning orders difficult to enforce.
Additionally, the legislation in these countries is not as advanced as say the Football Spectators Act 1991 here in the UK which deals specifically with racist chanting and even the conviction rate here for these offences is extremely low.
That being said, it is one thing to have your fans saying stuff like that to you, it's entirely another thing for your PRESIDENT to be saying that to your face, in front of your colleagues. Here in the UK, there is workplace legislation which protects workers from that sort of employer reproach/bullying
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I know how that player feels because I walked out a wuk same way due to chupid comments just so.
I was in London in 2001...working for an accounting firm...first day on the job.
The Manager says....Oh you are from Trinidad...do you all live in trees?
:o
So me with meh f**k up self start conversation...."Why yes I do in fact I have quite a nice bungalow at home, I did over the roof from thatch and put in some new palm fronds."
So when the woman co workers watching her with they eye open she start up...so do you know anything about steel and concrete down there?
I smiled and said, well...we have a trade embargo and these things cannot be imported. But it floods alot so we like living in trees.
Then the Imps go say...so why did you leave your little island to come up here?
"I watch her and said well the Americans have come into the island and are cutting down all our trees and now we dont have much places to live."
Now her 2-3 co-workers in the office watching her in horror..watching me ahow, cause dey ent know if I serious or not.
That was about 9:15 in the morning during my walkabout tour. I get an assignment to reconcile some figures..I sit by the puter and I type up meh resignation letter easy easy.
I play some games on the puter solitair and minesweeper...Internet wasn't around then and lunchtime I ride yes.
A time I was in Devon in the only shopping center and a lil girl walk up to me and rub my skin and ask how I am a different colour. The mother run and tell me sorry and said ..shes never seen someone like you before..we dont have a telly at home.
Doh talk bout a time I make a bus drive from NY to Canada for Caribana and I hop out in a truck stop somewhere around Buffalo....boy if yuh see how Jethro, Shep and Hem jaw drop when they see us.
I have about 6-7 London racism stories and even more in FL post 9-11 but you just have to tell yourself they have plenty jackarse in the world and I am thankful I grow up in a country where people are tolerant of each other and I have travelled further than my neightbourhood store.
You must just leave them alone.
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Touches that is f**ked up.
Ah know some ppl feel dougla is arab.
What happen in FL?
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Touches, thats some amazing restraint on your part...Iz funny, the only time I have ever been called a nigger was in my own country by a spoil rich trini-white gyaul (who didn't know her ass from her elbow) in Pelos car park...I have been living in Boston for over 6 years now and have been around more white people than ever before, and to date, not once have I been on the receiving end of a racial slur...
But ah still young so yuh never know!
:beermug:
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I know how that player feels because I walked out a wuk same way due to chupid comments just so.
I was in London in 2001...working for an accounting firm...first day on the job.
The Manager says....Oh you are from Trinidad...do you all live in trees?
:o
So me with meh f**k up self start conversation...."Why yes I do in fact I have quite a nice bungalow at home, I did over the roof from thatch and put in some new palm fronds."
So when the woman co workers watching her with they eye open she start up...so do you know anything about steel and concrete down there?
I smiled and said, well...we have a trade embargo and these things cannot be imported. But it floods alot so we like living in trees.
Then the Imps go say...so why did you leave your little island to come up here?
"I watch her and said well the Americans have come into the island and are cutting down all our trees and now we dont have much places to live."
Now her 2-3 co-workers in the office watching her in horror..watching me ahow, cause dey ent know if I serious or not.
That was about 9:15 in the morning during my walkabout tour. I get an assignment to reconcile some figures..I sit by the puter and I type up meh resignation letter easy easy.
I play some games on the puter solitair and minesweeper...Internet wasn't around then and lunchtime I ride yes.
A time I was in Devon in the only shopping center and a lil girl walk up to me and rub my skin and ask how I am a different colour. The mother run and tell me sorry and said ..shes never seen someone like you before..we dont have a telly at home.
Doh talk bout a time I make a bus drive from NY to Canada for Caribana and I hop out in a truck stop somewhere around Buffalo....boy if yuh see how Jethro, Shep and Hem jaw drop when they see us.
I have about 6-7 London racism stories and even more in FL post 9-11 but you just have to tell yourself they have plenty jackarse in the world and I am thankful I grow up in a country where people are tolerant of each other and I have travelled further than my neightbourhood store.
You must just leave them alone.
Most of what you decribe isn't racism though.
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As bad as things are here in the US when it come to race issues at least there are Laws and regulations to ensure that there are consequences for such behaviour.
Had this situation occurred is the US the consequences would have been a lot more dire than losing their sponsor...the key being "Hostile work environment" whcih is music to the ears of litigators.
Doh talk up de US about consequences regarding racism on jobs. Twice in the past weeks nooses were used to make a point involving blacks and whites. One geh suspended and the other still have a job.
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Whatever the manager's motives were for saying what he said, appear to imply a lack of knowledge, ability to interact with someone from a different country and of a different race. It was also real dotish of him to use words that the player would associate with racism. He apparently has not learn how to be a suttle racist yet!
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Show racism the red card
Falkirk Herald
(http://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/getEdImage.aspx?ImageID=1317963&imagesize=1)
FALKIRK star Russell Latapy visited Kinnaird Primary yesterday (Wednesday) to launch the latest Show Racism the Red Card inititative.
Already up and running in local secondary schools, the scheme backed by the football club, BairnsTrust, Falkirk Council's Education Department and the Central Scotland Racial Equality Council, will now roll-out workshops to primary pupils in the area.
They are designed to provide children with a historical background on racism and promote equality of opportunity and good relations between people of different racial groups, while working towards the elimination of discrimination.
Latapy, who held a question and answer session with the children, is pictured above with 10-year-old pupils Alysa Hay and Aiden Miller.
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latasssssssssssssssssssssssss
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man to man is so unjust.
By Kennedy Gondwe
BBC Sport, Lusaka
The campaign for the Football Association of Zambia (Faz) presidency is being marred by racial slurs on one of the candidates.
Zambian legend Kalusha Bwalya, lawyer Anthony Kasolo and Hanif Adams, a businessman of Indian origin, are contesting the 29 March poll.
But there has been opposition to Adams' candidature in the local media on the basis of his race.
Individuals have argued that despite Adams being Zambian (he was born in eastern Zambia), Faz should not be run by foreigners.
One of them says: "For the sake of national pride and patriotism, Faz should be run by indigenous black Zambians and not Indians or Pakistanis."
Adams, who owns top flight club Lusaka Dynamos, admits he is disappointed with the remarks.
"I am very disappointed for people bringing race issues into matters of football or any matter concerning the development of any country," he told BBC Sport.
"I have never thought I was regarded as an Indian, I always believe I am a Zambian because I was born and bred here.
"I have never been to India since I was born 54 years ago."
"It hurts me when people say that," he added.
"For the last 29 years, I have developed indigenous Zambian players who are thriving because of my efforts."
Despite the attacks, Adams says he will not back down on his Faz ambition.
One of Adams' opponents, Anthony Kasolo, has condemned the racist remarks.
"Legally speaking, being indigenous is neither here nor there because we all came from different places," Kasolo said.
"It's being petty and it's unfortunate that a campaign should go that dirty."
Story from BBC SPORT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/football/africa/7262763.stm
Published: 2008/02/25 11:50:30 GMT
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Total crap. If it was the other way around, you would seen how many people on this forum would have condemned it. Steups. These same Zambians, if an individual from their diaspora were to be in a similar situation in Europe or elsewhere, you would have heard a ruckus.
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Its nonsense and was totally uncalled for but its a result of seein people enjoy your country for too long while you wallow in poverty all your life...However the guy is Zambian and should be treated as any other candidate
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Sad but true and as a trini you should understand this because the same thing will happen in TnT.
If an indian run for president of the TTFF people will say "What Indian know bout football"
The same problems exsist in Zambia that exsist in Tnt when comes to race.
When people see a Indian he is a Indian, when people see an African, he is an African.
People see race and not Citizenship,
Sad but True
The only cure for racism is blindness and even then that may not work.
They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.
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Sunil Gulati (US Soccer Federation President) seems to be doing a good job. Meritocracy, is so hard?
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They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.
How dat go improve racism?...de only ting dat go do is make 'red man' dissappear.....and make HDTV ah waste of time
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They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.
How dat go improve racism?...de only ting dat go do is make 'red man' dissappear.....and make HDTV ah waste of time
ah doh think we want to IMPROVE racism, but maybe we could try to ERADICATE it :D ;D
Big Up!
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Lawd ! I jus realise what ah type dey oui :-[ :D
All de redneck lurkers mus be did thought dey had ah inside ally :D
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
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For those who playing ignorant
Talking 'bout true African descendant
If yuh want to know de truth
Take ah trip back to yuh roots
And somewhere on that journey
Yuh go see ah man in a dhoti
Saying he prayers in front of a jhandi, jhandi
Kumayah-o
Zindawey-o
Kumayah Zindawey Ayayo...
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Sad but true and as a trini you should understand this because the same thing will happen in TnT.
If an indian run for president of the TTFF people will say "What Indian know bout football"
The same problems exsist in Zambia that exsist in Tnt when comes to race.
When people see a Indian he is a Indian, when people see an African, he is an African.
People see race and not Citizenship,
Sad but True
The only cure for racism is blindness and even then that may not work.
They say the next generation is color blind, hopefully this will be true.
Now that is the dumbest statement you've come up with to date.
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html
Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html
Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html
Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.
The politicians perpetuate the race talk to the masses to keep their "tribal " base, they know the majority of Trinis would not do any research or travel further than the Caribbean, the States or Canada for a trip or holiday and therefore not be able to interact with the diverse cultures that make up the world and by so doing question the stupidness that comes out of their leaders mouths.
I recently worked with Sri Lankans and Indians and what was shocking to me was how much some of them looked like me. I played SOCA to the Sri Lankan and he said they have music that sounds similar and he played a couple songs on his guitar for me and the beat was like Kaiso.
The birth place of civilisation travelled and in left the basis of black culture all over thus the similarities.
When a conqueror is tolerant and allows cultures to develop naturally an empire is built but when a conqueror is intolerant and imposes his own morality on peoples he is destined for the dust bin of history.
Dais actually my quote. ;D ;D
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html
Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.
The politicians perpetuate the race talk to the masses to keep their "tribal " base, they know the majority of Trinis would not do any research or travel further than the Caribbean, the States or Canada for a trip or holiday and therefore not be able to interact with the diverse cultures that make up the world and by so doing question the stupidness that comes out of their leaders mouths.
I recently worked with Sri Lankans and Indians and what was shocking to me was how much some of them looked like me. I played SOCA to the Sri Lankan and he said they have music that sounds similar and he played a couple songs on his guitar for me and the beat was like Kaiso.
The birth place of civilisation travelled and in left the basis of black culture all over thus the similarities.
When a conqueror is tolerant and allows cultures to develop naturally an empire is built but when a conqueror is intolerant and imposes his own morality on peoples he is destined for the dust bin of history.
Dais actually my quote. ;D ;D
As yuh know it have fellas on this site who like to demonize I like if i wrote history, when all i'm doing is repeating it. fellas does call me a racist, but all i'm doing is telling them what happened in the anals of time, it's almost like they hate the truth for some reason , or the truth does take them out of their comfort zone into a area of harsh reality. i remember when i was around 13yrs old my breddren dex became a radical muslim and black nationalist, he went from being fun to be around till i started avoiding him, even hating to see him at times.
he would talk about black history and how whites hid so much things from us to keep us ignorant so they could continue to oppress us, bredder could you imagine telling this to a brain washed sheltered 13 yrs old. when i came to the realization that he was telling me the truth, i almost lost my mind. i think i was about 15 when i heard the same things from a NJAC member whom i respected which caused me to accept the truth about life and imbrace truth instead of running from it.
ppl who i was taught to hate were actually ppl that was fighting agianst oppression. then i realize that the ppl i was thought to love were the ones who helped in oppressing the masses, like the catholic church, i thought the priest was like the most revered person on the earth, until my boy told me to ask him about praying to statues , and eating pork,BC in their own bible it was said , don't bow to idols, but in the church has statues of every kind and ppl pray to them.
in the said bible it states don't eat swine , but they do it anyway, and without conviction, the priest was lest dumb founded and could not give an appropiate answer. i think at that moment i was set free from my shackles, all these things made me question my parents and realize that my parents was brained washed worst than me, BC even though you showed them proof , they still continued along the same path.
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Racism exist throught the World and has existed throughout the history of man. It is not a African, Indian thing or African, Caucasian thing. Just ask the peoples of China, former Yugoslavia, Sudan, Rwanda, Russia, Congo, Zimbabwe etc etc.
Me! Though I am willing to discuss it, will not let it and have never allowed it to dictate to me in anyway. Maybe it is because I am getting older, but the longer I live is the more I firmly believe that sectarianism, statism, aristocracy, racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, like religion, is nothing more than a tools of the HAVES to keep the HAVE NOTS divided.
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the HAVES to keep the HAVE NOTS divided.
is not racism, buh look how Jackula does treat the overwhelming amount of footballers in TnT.
He have,
he keeping and
dem ent getten nutten........OK sorry, he givin dem $5,000 ::)
and to reminds those who forgot.............dat is from $173,000,000 TT :o
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html
Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.
The politicians perpetuate the race talk to the masses to keep their "tribal " base, they know the majority of Trinis would not do any research or travel further than the Caribbean, the States or Canada for a trip or holiday and therefore not be able to interact with the diverse cultures that make up the world and by so doing question the stupidness that comes out of their leaders mouths.
I recently worked with Sri Lankans and Indians and what was shocking to me was how much some of them looked like me. I played SOCA to the Sri Lankan and he said they have music that sounds similar and he played a couple songs on his guitar for me and the beat was like Kaiso.
The birth place of civilisation travelled and in left the basis of black culture all over thus the similarities.
When a conqueror is tolerant and allows cultures to develop naturally an empire is built but when a conqueror is intolerant and imposes his own morality on peoples he is destined for the dust bin of history.
Dais actually my quote. ;D ;D
As yuh know it have fellas on this site who like to demonize I like if i wrote history, when all i'm doing is repeating it. fellas does call me a racist, but all i'm doing is telling them what happened in the anals of time, it's almost like they hate the truth for some reason , or the truth does take them out of their comfort zone into a area of harsh reality. i remember when i was around 13yrs old my breddren dex became a radical muslim and black nationalist, he went from being fun to be around till i started avoiding him, even hating to see him at times.
he would talk about black history and how whites hid so much things from us to keep us ignorant so they could continue to oppress us, bredder could you imagine telling this to a brain washed sheltered 13 yrs old. when i came to the realization that he was telling me the truth, i almost lost my mind. i think i was about 15 when i heard the same things from a NJAC member whom i respected which caused me to accept the truth about life and imbrace truth instead of running from it.
ppl who i was taught to hate were actually ppl that was fighting agianst oppression. then i realize that the ppl i was thought to love were the ones who helped in oppressing the masses, like the catholic church, i thought the priest was like the most revered person on the earth, until my boy told me to ask him about praying to statues , and eating pork,BC in their own bible it was said , don't bow to idols, but in the church has statues of every kind and ppl pray to them.
in the said bible it states don't eat swine , but they do it anyway, and without conviction, the priest was lest dumb founded and could not give an appropiate answer. i think at that moment i was set free from my shackles, all these things made me question my parents and realize that my parents was brained washed worst than me, BC even though you showed them proof , they still continued along the same path.
the truth does offend, i have read alot of indian history and african, the aryans did institute the class system from northern india to central, the original dravidians were pushed to the south and sri lanka, i think people need to read more history, it needs to be taught more in schools, people would then realize that everyone is the same and were all connected and politics and money has divided many of us...
God is de BOSS....
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
De man say Africans have issues with Indians...and you tell him tuh talk sense as though what he saying is schupidness?? steups
Den come preach ah whole setta talk about 'why'? Who cares??
Okay so de colonial powers foster ah divide and conquer mentality...what dat have to do with the price ah tea in china? does that in any way invalidate Kicker's statement? Everywhere Indians are in Africa they are seen as opportunists who come into Africa (regardless as to whether they born Africa or not) and profiting off the back of black people. Come to think of it, many people in Trinidad have the same backward thinking. Is how long now Idi Amin say "Africa is for Africans"?? This ent going on now, and irrespective as to 'why' it going on POINT IS IT GOING ON and it facked up.
'Why' doh friggin matter at this point.
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
j. cool, be that as it may..it doesn't change the fact that what kicker says is true and it does not change the fact that it is sad. it's not a statement that assigns blame or ignores the root of the issue. Nor does it imply ignorance of the roots of such a condition. It is simply an observation. We can make observations without having to go into the history of it all...I don't see you going into a full diatribe on every observation you make. Maybe you should in order to be talking sense right?
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at least Zambia have 3 men going up for elections.....in tnt we cant even try a racial slur....
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
De man say Africans have issues with Indians...and you tell him tuh talk sense as though what he saying is schupidness?? steups
Den come preach ah whole setta talk about 'why'? Who cares??
Okay so de colonial powers foster ah divide and conquer mentality...what dat have to do with the price ah tea in china? does that in any way invalidate Kicker's statement? Everywhere Indians are in Africa they are seen as opportunists who come into Africa (regardless as to whether they born Africa or not) and profiting off the back of black people. Come to think of it, many people in Trinidad have the same backward thinking. Is how long now Idi Amin say "Africa is for Africans"?? This ent going on now, and irrespective as to 'why' it going on POINT IS IT GOING ON and it facked up.
'Why' doh friggin matter at this point.
Tell dem bake and shark! Tell dem!
Set of hypocrites flooding the board. Them fellas don't realise we is a family on here.
There is all types of people on here. some are black, white, chinese, indian, mixed etc. Some are rich,middle class or lower class.
I forgot some are from the same colonial families that use to run Trinidad and Tobago.
They doen't say anything but don't think that they don't feel offended.
Respect the diversity on here and stop trying to race bash.
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
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Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
De man say Africans have issues with Indians...and you tell him tuh talk sense as though what he saying is schupidness?? steups
Den come preach ah whole setta talk about 'why'? Who cares??
Okay so de colonial powers foster ah divide and conquer mentality...what dat have to do with the price ah tea in china? does that in any way invalidate Kicker's statement? Everywhere Indians are in Africa they are seen as opportunists who come into Africa (regardless as to whether they born Africa or not) and profiting off the back of black people. Come to think of it, many people in Trinidad have the same backward thinking. Is how long now Idi Amin say "Africa is for Africans"?? This ent going on now, and irrespective as to 'why' it going on POINT IS IT GOING ON and it facked up.
'Why' doh friggin matter at this point.
;D ;D Ent!
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To all the subjetive minded batty holes who like to run up they stink mouth and talk out of contex, take this.
when the colonial master dicided to leave their colonies to the poor bastards they oppressed for centuries, and for what ever reason like in indo china they were met with fierce resistance for total inependence that left those ppl war torn for half a century.
those ppl had no good intentions when they abandon their colonies. the french left their colonies in africa and indo china in a mess, there was no funding whatsoever and apart from that, they left division amoungst the ppl so they could continue to have a hold on their ecconomy and ties to them without the responsibility of care taking.
just ask rowandans, when did they started fighting each other, was it pre or post colonialism. the belgians deliberatly put the huto against the tutsi's , as a matter of fact they are one ppl , it's the belgians who created huto and tutsi according to my tutsi friend. same for palestine. the british brought in millions of jews from europe into palestine and caused a war that still exist today, same with the french in vietnam and in laos.
as for the west indies and africa , the british brought identured workers from china, portugal and india, they propergated the idea to them that blacks are extremly lazy and don't want to work, so we have to bring you ppl here to do what they hate doing. they also told them that black ppl have all sorts of deseases, they are part animal and they should not mix with them,they also spread the rumor that black men love to rape and they are the lowest cast on the earth. forever putting a wedge between black chinese and indian to this day in all their colonies.
in the british west indies they left us penny less, my great aunt said in colonial and post colonial times the country was so poor and destitute especially places like behind the bridge, she said there was no land distribution whatsoever in the p.o.s area, every thing was own by the crown , even post colonial time.
those ppl was denied proper education and employment opportunities, most of the poor was black and indigenous ppl, most black ppl were relegated to jobs such as gardeners, maids, and labourers. all the pleasant jobs were given to frechcreoles , whites , portuegese and chinese.
is only when pnm took over did things change a little , more change came during the 1970 up rising with dagga and CO. is lucky trinidad & tobago lucky we had oil and gas, if we didn't have that , we would've been as poor as guyana, BC the britsh left those islands without any kind of funding to function as an independent country. and the IMF is a differant monster all together, just ask jamiaca and mexico.
now you tell me that the truth is now and the past is obselete, so could the truth of the present exist without the past!! i really couldv'e explain this better to monkies and thay would've got it the first time around, is either fellas like talk and want to gang up , of which i don't care , do you! or they eat to much ah granny pig tail soup, and it kill their overstanding. now lets see how much of the feable minded would ignore the heights and eat up the slop.
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Some ah all yuh need to read "The Economic Aspect of the West Indian Slave Trade and Slavery" Dr Eric Williams followed by a healthy dose of "History of the People of Trinidad and Tobago"
I doh care what race you are "if you need help to lift ah stone, I dey" black, mixed and proud too... ;D
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To all the subjetive minded batty holes who like to run up they stink mouth and talk out of contex, take this.
when the colonial master dicided to leave their colonies to the poor bastards they oppressed for centuries, and for what ever reason like in indo china they were met with fierce resistance for total inependence that left those ppl war torn for half a century.
those ppl had no good intentions when they abandon their colonies. the french left their colonies in africa and indo china in a mess, there was no funding whatsoever and apart from that, they left division amoungst the ppl so they could continue to have a hold on their ecconomy and ties to them without the responsibility of care taking.
just ask rowandans when they started fighting each other, was it pre or post colonialism. the belgians deliberatly put the huto against the tutsi's , as a matter of fact they are one ppl , it's the belgians who created huto and tutsi according to my tutsi friend. same for palestine. the british brought in millions of jews from europe into palestine and caused a war that still exist today, same with the french in vietnam and in laos.
as for the west indies and africa , the british brought identured workers from china, portugal and india, they propergated the idea to them that blacks are extremly lazy and don't want to work, so we have to bring you ppl here to do what they hate doing. they also told them that black ppl have all sorts of deseases, they are part animal and they should not mix with them,they also spread the rumor that black men love to rape and they are the lowest cast on the earth. forever putting a wedge between black chinese and indian to this day in all their colonies.
in the british west indies they left us penny less, my great aunt said in colonial and post colonial times the country was so poor and destitute especially places like behind the bridge, she said there was no land distribution whatsoever in the p.o.s area, every thing was own by the crown , even post colonial time.
those ppl was denied proper education and employment opportunities, most of the poor was black and indigenous ppl, most black ppl were relegated to jobs such as gardeners, maids, and labourers. all the pleasant jobs were given to frechcreoles , whites , portuegese and chinese.
is only when pnm took over did things change a little , more change came during the 1970 up rising with dagga and CO. is lucky trinidad & tobago lucky we had oil and gas, if we didn't have that , we would've been as poor as guyana, BC the britsh left those islands without any kind of funding to function as an independent country. and the IMF is a differant monster all together, just ask jamiaca and mexico.
now you tell me that the truth is now and the past is obselete, so could the truth of the present exist without the past!! i really couldv'e explain this better to monkies and thay would've got it the first time around, is either fellas like talk and want to gang up , of which i don't care , do you! or they eat to much ah granny pig tail soup, and it kill their overstanding. now lets see how much of the feable minded would ignore the heights and eat up the slop.
First off no need to take such an offensive tone. Batty hole? Where is the need for that? Out of context? if you re-read this thread, you're the one who is taking stuff out of context, and at the same time turning it into an unhealthy discussion with unwarranted animosity.
Secondly, no one is discrediting or denying the past, nor the role it plays in today's society with regard to interracial/ethnic relations.
The point is that today the situation is what it is, and a valid explanation doesn't make it right. Many could argue that there was a valid business rationale behind the slave trade- doesn't take away from the fact that slavery was inhumane and unjust.
It's a fact that many Africans, in different parts of Africa have been guilty of open racial discrimination against Indians....and an explanation is not an excuse, and an excuse doesn't make it ok... I'm not sure why you can't accept that- it's plain to see....and if you were on the other side of the coin, you wouldn't care to hear about why it came to be..... maybe you can take some of your own advice on objectivity.
So cool down, and try to understand where people are coming from before you unnecessarily call them names whilst simultaneously missing the point....
-
Anti Indian racism in parts of Africa is a normal scene......very sad...
Talk sense nah fardder, ppl only focusing their attention on the end product, what about the inception. i think if ppl are willing to do adequate research they will find the root cause of the problem, and when yuh finish you will see the colonial masters is the chief culprits.
thousands of yrs ago India was a part of Africa, if in doubt, in southern India i think it's off the coast of calcutta there's an island which is totally populated with black African ppl, and buss this! they are indigenous to the island. India used to be an extension of Abyssinia, same ppl same culture.
when alexanda the battyhole left Abyssinia and journeyed to India, one of his remarks was, we just left you ppl back in Abyssinia, what are you doing here in India. he was ammazed to see two differant countries thousands of miles apart with the same identical ppl and the same culture , and in those days a thousand miles was like a trip to a differant galaxy.
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Check this out http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/india.html
Most of the race talk in TT is done by the racists themselves that is what makes KND'S statement so shocking to me.
Excellent read fishes, i have that book by chiek antadiop (civilization or barbarism ) which touches on that a little bit. a lot of indian ppl in trini don't even know how they became that way and the reson why is BC of the arian invasion, is the arians who started the cast system to keep the blood line pure, no wonder the lower cast in india are the black skin ones. yuh must check out a black iraqi who lived about 1200 yrs ago name al jahiz, he was instramental in my understanding of ancient india and the middle east.
First yuh blame it on the aryans
hundreds of yrs ago Indian and African shared the same trade route and had a fabulous relationship, it's only during and post colonialism black ppl and Indian ppl all of a sudden cant get along!! ah wonder why!!!!! could the british and the french have any thing to do with it ? "nnaaaaahhhhh".
Then yuh implying it's the french and the english
Who is really responsible?
JAH BLESS RASTAFARI
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To all the subjetive minded batty holes who like to run up they stink mouth and talk out of contex, take this.
when the colonial master dicided to leave their colonies to the poor bastards they oppressed for centuries, and for what ever reason like in indo china they were met with fierce resistance for total inependence that left those ppl war torn for half a century.
those ppl had no good intentions when they abandon their colonies. the french left their colonies in africa and indo china in a mess, there was no funding whatsoever and apart from that, they left division amoungst the ppl so they could continue to have a hold on their ecconomy and ties to them without the responsibility of care taking.
just ask rowandans when they started fighting each other, was it pre or post colonialism. the belgians deliberatly put the huto against the tutsi's , as a matter of fact they are one ppl , it's the belgians who created huto and tutsi according to my tutsi friend. same for palestine. the british brought in millions of jews from europe into palestine and caused a war that still exist today, same with the french in vietnam and in laos.
as for the west indies and africa , the british brought identured workers from china, portugal and india, they propergated the idea to them that blacks are extremly lazy and don't want to work, so we have to bring you ppl here to do what they hate doing. they also told them that black ppl have all sorts of deseases, they are part animal and they should not mix with them,they also spread the rumor that black men love to rape and they are the lowest cast on the earth. forever putting a wedge between black chinese and indian to this day in all their colonies.
in the british west indies they left us penny less, my great aunt said in colonial and post colonial times the country was so poor and destitute especially places like behind the bridge, she said there was no land distribution whatsoever in the p.o.s area, every thing was own by the crown , even post colonial time.
those ppl was denied proper education and employment opportunities, most of the poor was black and indigenous ppl, most black ppl were relegated to jobs such as gardeners, maids, and labourers. all the pleasant jobs were given to frechcreoles , whites , portuegese and chinese.
is only when pnm took over did things change a little , more change came during the 1970 up rising with dagga and CO. is lucky trinidad & tobago lucky we had oil and gas, if we didn't have that , we would've been as poor as guyana, BC the britsh left those islands without any kind of funding to function as an independent country. and the IMF is a differant monster all together, just ask jamiaca and mexico.
now you tell me that the truth is now and the past is obselete, so could the truth of the present exist without the past!! i really couldv'e explain this better to monkies and thay would've got it the first time around, is either fellas like talk and want to gang up , of which i don't care , do you! or they eat to much ah granny pig tail soup, and it kill their overstanding. now lets see how much of the feable minded would ignore the heights and eat up the slop.
First off no need to take such an offensive tone. Batty hole? Where is the need for that? Out of context? if you re-read this thread, you're the one who is taking stuff out of context, and at the same time turning it into an unhealthy discussion with unwarranted animosity.
Secondly, no one is discrediting or denying the past, nor the role it plays in today's society with regard to interracial/ethnic relations.
The point is that today the situation is what it is, and a valid explanation doesn't make it right. Many could argue that there was a valid business rationale behind the slave trade- doesn't take away from the fact that slavery was inhumane and unjust.
It's a fact that many Africans, in different parts of Africa have been guilty of open racial discrimination against Indians....and an explanation is not an excuse, and an excuse doesn't make it ok... I'm not sure why you can't accept that- it's plain to see....and if you were on the other side of the coin, you wouldn't care to hear about why it came to be..... maybe you can take some of your own advice on objectivity.
So cool down, and try to understand where people are coming from before you unnecessarily call them names whilst simultaneously missing the point....
Missing what point boss ? All i was doing is telling you don't talk things yuh not verse on, if yuh did more reading rather than talking bout things yuh don't know fully about, then expect man who does read about these issues to check yuh. you said anti indian racism in parts of africa is a normal scene . very sad.
now ask yuh self why ? did indians came to africa and treat them like 2nd class citizens, did indian men abuse their authority on the lest fortunate, did indians initiate the racist behavior and the africans just returning the favor ? take uganda forinstance, it's not only indians who were expelled from uganda, but if yuh don't know the inside scoop yuh would most definatly think so.
serians, germans , jews, lebanese were also kicked out of uganda, and the reason they were is BC they were banking outside of uganda and it was destroying the ecconomy. again the british is to blame, but no one wants to talk bout that, it's only the so called "racist" comments they interested in. they the british set this thing up to divide and maintain controll of the ecconomy by creating strife amoungst the pplll, they left the native destitute and brought in foriegners with money from racist caste sytem india to these east african nations , colonial vibes!
the migrants came with money to buy land and build businesses and they were taking advantage of the country and it's ppl, that anti indian sentiment has been building for yrs , that's why ugandans supported amin's coop BC they were fed up of being 2nd class citizens and disrespected in their native land. so you think is just so ppl does hate ppl.
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just cool
the reasons for anti Indian racism in Africa by black Africans does not negate that it exists and does not make it a positive scene. it's that simple. what really do you this rounds. come on man. u haven't said anything to erase the fact that kicker's observation is true. nor does the lack of a long diatribe as to the causality infer ignorance on the topic. Since when does a legitimate observation have to come with a diatribe about its roots. you want to qualify the racism by explaining some history. fine. that is additive to the observation. but the observation still stands as true and legit.
If I said that crime in T&T is on the rise and it is a sad scene, would you accuse me of talking about things I don't know about and call me a batty hole who running his mouth just because I did not feel like explaining why.
Stop acting like you haven't made or agreed with simple observations without the history behind it.
Thanks for the history lesson, but it changes nothing. The racism exists and it is a sad scene. Anytime you want to test my intelligence, do it like a big man and ask where I coming from with that observation. I will share my knowledge any time.
positive
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just cool
the reasons for anti Indian racism in Africa by black Africans does not negate that it exists and does not make it a positive scene. it's that simple. what really do you this rounds. come on man. u haven't said anything to erase the fact that kicker's observation is true. nor does the lack of a long diatribe as to the causality infer ignorance on the topic. Since when does a legitimate observation have to come with a diatribe about its roots. you want to qualify the racism by explaining some history. fine. that is additive to the observation. but the observation still stands as true and legit.
If I said that crime in T&T is on the rise and it is a sad scene, would you accuse me of talking about things I don't know about and call me a batty hole who running his mouth just because I did not feel like explaining why.
Stop acting like you haven't made or agreed with simple observations without the history behind it.
Thanks for the history lesson, but it changes nothing. The racism exists and it is a sad scene. Anytime you want to test my intelligence, do it like a big man and ask where I coming from with that observation. I will share my knowledge any time.
positive
Take win guy! i don't get paid to do this.
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just cool
the reasons for anti Indian racism in Africa by black Africans does not negate that it exists and does not make it a positive scene. it's that simple. what really do you this rounds. come on man. u haven't said anything to erase the fact that kicker's observation is true. nor does the lack of a long diatribe as to the causality infer ignorance on the topic. Since when does a legitimate observation have to come with a diatribe about its roots. you want to qualify the racism by explaining some history. fine. that is additive to the observation. but the observation still stands as true and legit.
If I said that crime in T&T is on the rise and it is a sad scene, would you accuse me of talking about things I don't know about and call me a batty hole who running his mouth just because I did not feel like explaining why.
Stop acting like you haven't made or agreed with simple observations without the history behind it.
Thanks for the history lesson, but it changes nothing. The racism exists and it is a sad scene. Anytime you want to test my intelligence, do it like a big man and ask where I coming from with that observation. I will share my knowledge any time.
positive
Take win guy! i don't get paid to do this.
hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D
glad this was over. it was getting bizarre
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hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D
glad this was over. it was getting bizarre
filho you good yes bredda....fuh all de shiitake that Indians had tuh put up wid under Eric Williams' PNM, when UNC finally reach in power and they start to talk about "is Indian time now"...nuff black people ketch feelings. By de logic that man spinning, black people had no reason to be vex at that, because I sure Sat Maharaj and all ah dem coulda provide nuff justification fuh why there was all of this seemingly sudden animosity emanating from some quarters of the Indian sector...there was a historical basis for it (and I guess we need to keep that in mind before we complain ::) )
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hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D
glad this was over. it was getting bizarre
:rotfl:
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hilarious. have you seen your contribution to this thread. it's a small book ;D
glad this was over. it was getting bizarre
:rotfl:
This thread turned out just as bizarre as Caledonia tryin to raise money thread... ???
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/mihirbose/2008/04/post_15.html
Mihir Bose - BBC sports editor 7 Apr 08, 01:16 PM Watch Mihir's report for Inside Sport on Monday 8 April at 2325 BST on BBC One
Racism may never be fully eradicated from football, but what I found during an investigation into the problem in Poland was truly shocking.
And this in the country that will co-host the 2012 European Football Championship.
I found racism that was strident and in your face in a way it never was in Britain, even in the very bad old days of English football in the 1970s and 80s.
Then, as one of the regular football reporters at the Sunday Times, I spent my Saturdays at football matches and had several first-hand experiences of racism.
Much of it was very unpleasant. But in Poland it was on a different, deeper and much nastier level.
In a street in central Warsaw, not far from the hotel where I was staying, there was a lot of graffiti about 'white power' and the Ku Klux Klan, all associated with the city's main team Legia Warsaw.
And this wasn't the only place where the problem was evident.
One evening, as myself, my cameraman and producer were going about central Warsaw filming our piece for Inside Sport, we were approached by a skinhead who said he was a Legia fan and made it clear that he was a racist and keen to broadcast his view.
As I interviewed him he told me to go back to my country, meaning India, the land of my birth. He would not look me in the eye as we spoke and at the end of my interview, refused to shake my hand.
He may have been an exhibitionist and, I must stress, Polish passers by were embarrassed by what he said and tried to distance themselves from him.
But talking to many people, including those running football in Poland, he did not seem untypical of a certain section of Polish fans.
Indeed, the president of Legia Warsaw, Leszek Miklas, an impressive and honest man, readily admitted that 15-20% of his club's fans were neo-Nazis.
Legia are banned from Europe because of the violence of their fans. His explanation for such deep-seated racism was that Poles are not used to seeing people of different colours or cultures in their country.
Perhaps the most chilling example of how embedded racism is in Polish football was when I met Jacek Pulski of Never Again, the Polish equivalent of Kick it Out.
We had agreed to meet in the Stalin-built Palace of Culture and Science in central Warsaw, where I expected his offices to be located.
No he said, he did not have his office there or anywhere else in Warsaw. Partly through lack of funding but, more importantly, if they had an office, Jacek was fearful it would be a firebomb target for racists.
We then spent some time driving round Warsaw to find a cafe where we could talk in peace.
He showed me photographs taken during Polish football matches in the last two years where brazen images of neo-Nazi symbols had been displayed.
This not only included the White Legion banner of the infamous skinheads of Legia Warsaw but, most chillingly, a picture of away fans in a lower division league match forming a human swastika in the stands.
He then told me the story of the black player who had been hospitalised by a third division club's supporters, despite scoring two goals. And all because they did not want an Afro-Caribbean in their side.
He told me that I, because of my brown skin, would not be safe in more than two or three grounds in Poland.
I was made very welcome at Legia Warsaw. But there were areas of the ground I was told I could not go into because of the colour of my skin.
This was confirmed when I met Dixon Choto, the Zimbabwean international who plays for Legia Warsaw.
Before meeting him I had spent some time watching his team-mates train. This could have been a training session anywhere - people of different colours united by football.
But, as we walked round the stadium, he pointed to a stand where his friends and family were not welcome because of the colour of their skin.
He also told me I should not go there as I would not be safe. He also said he had his share of monkey chants and bananas being tossed at him. This happened more at away matches now.
Worse still, he said when he reacted to such racism on the field of play, Polish football authorities called him to a disciplinary hearing, where the opposition manager said he did not hear the chants, despite being heard loud and clear by Dixon's wife, who was at home watching on television.
I went to a Legia Warsaw home match at the Polish Army Stadium, where the team fielded black players without any visible problems, although I was not able to go anywhere near the stand, which takes up a whole side of the ground, where the 'ultras' gather.
Before the match I had been to a bar near the ground where the hardcore supporters meet.
It was made clear by some fans, who feared for my safety and that of my crew, I should leave.
I managed to speak to these moderate fans who did not deny that racism existed but insisted that Poland was not alone in having this scourge.
So what does this mean for 2012?
Dixon told me frankly that Poland was not ready to host Euro 2012. Pulski agreed, although he hoped the tournament would highlight the issue and help the country tackle its racism problem.
Polish competition organisers accept there is a problem at league level, but say national team supporters do not display racist behaviour, despite photographic evidence I was shown that suggested the contrary.
They are confident that 2012 will pass without incident.
Poland needs heavy financial investment to get its infrastructure ready for 2012. The Polish media are already expressing worries about how this will be done.
But tackling such deep-seated racism in time to welcome a Europe of all colours may be much more difficult than building roads and stadia
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Anybody have any idea who the afro-caribbean player is?
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The rise of neo-nazism in Poland is particularly disturbing when you consider that the most notorious of the Nazi concentration camps, Auschwitz, is located in Poland. What makes it worse is that more than 140,000 Poles were interned there and about half never made it out.
Imagine seeing neo-nazis in Israel, it's about as mind-boggling.
@Andre - Breds I understand your sentiment but it's not fair to ridicule all Poles because of the actions of these idiots. You only demeaning yourself with those kind of statements.
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Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.
Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.
And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.
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Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.
Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.
And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.
The Poles did suffer at the hands of the Germans, BUT...they were fiercely anti semetic also and the Polish Jews, who had been there since the middle ages were already the poorest of all Jews on the continent and were harrassed and persecuted by the native poles. Poles for theri part cooperated with the nazis in the execution of the pesky Jews who made up 10% of Poland's population.
Doh feel dem werent already hating Jews, and it is no coincidence that the majority of Nazi gas chambers were built right there in Poland.
This may be news to some, But Poles always hate people of colour and Jews!
The Jews were already suffering at the hands of those in Poland who hated them and then those same country men collobrated with the Germans to help eradicate Jews.
I am not at all surprised that anti semetism and hatred of blacks permeates that nasty nation!
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Yes TT but the fact remains that many many non-Jewish, non-homosexual Poles were slaughtered by the Nazis, I just went on Wiki and read an estimate of nearly 20% of the population. And the Polish resistance continued to be very strong throughout Europe.
As I understand it the Poles, Slavs and the people of Eastern Europe in general never experienced the destruction of the native cultures of Western Europe by the Roman Empire and the subsequent reformation into larger regional blocs from which the identities of English, French etc. emerged. But you are more a historian than I, what is your take on that?
They tribal no ass and the biggest joke is that ethnic Russians, probably among the most xenophobic set of people on this earth disdain Caucasians with a passion!
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In the buildup to WC 2002 I had a memorable discussion with several Polish fans concerning Emmanuel Olisadebe. I didn't know an excessive amount about the player beyond some of his notable exploits and the growing regard he was developing. I was very curious about how he came to stamp his authority on the Polish game and how he managed to negotiate his place in - what available information suggested was at least - an occasionally hostile environment. And, they were very eager to talk about him because they hoped/thought he would deliver them to the WC Promised Land.
It was an interesting exercise. These fans drew a line that bigged up the player while also chronicling his negative experiences at the hands of 'supporters' - all without delivering any clear/notable denunciation of the behaviour. They didn't try to explain it and I didn't ask them to.
Seemed like they accepted it without necessarily agreeing with it. There was no kowtowing just for my sake. Instead, there was a very Central/Eastern European matter of factness.
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The homogenous character of Poland is an easy explanation. Though not necessarily incorrect, where does racism begin and xenophobia end? I doh have a full explanation but I can share my experience.
I was tempted to challenge them to the point of confession but didn't because I accepted they were messengers and not necessarily believers. As well, we were breaking bread together so that wouldna been the righteous approach right there and then.
Yet, the paradox of the Solidarity movement and Eastern Europe's embrace of things Western made me question some convenient notions about history and race and Slavic prejudices as they may be understood in Chicago. I had to remind myself of Poles versus immigrant Poles.
The truth is Poland is probably a good example of misplaced prejudices stemming from the inability of the society to address some of the transition experienced at the forefront of shifting from communism to another way. Not to dismiss the historical record with respect to Polish complicity in WW II atrocities - but there are contemporary challenges in mastering market economics and diminished state subsidisation that cyah be explained by WW II exclusively. As well, there is a liberal mindset standing against some of the conservative character of the Old State.
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That same year I had been invited to Poznan and otherwise independently had many interactions with Poles.
I have found Poles to be very engaging and sensitized to the world outside of Poland ... might be a generation bias here buh say wha ... Similarly, I have found them to be culturally curious and plenty positive (gender biased here fuh sure) ...
At the end of the day, football's atmosphere is combustion and attraction for certain degenerates.
I agree with Bose regarding his propositions relating to Euro 2012. Buh ah find him incredulous with respect to the surpise expressed about reality in Poland and a lil disingenuous with respect to comparing Poland to 70s and 80s England.
There is an automatic tendency to defend the reputation of one's country even as one recognises that certain behaviour in one's country is reprehensible or regrettable - Poland or England. Bose may share this in common with the Poles I met.
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Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.
Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.
And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.
History never lies and it is said that people who were oppressed for years usually become the oppressers themselves............
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Very ironic that after how Poles suffered at the hands of Hitler that that such a large portion of their population would then turn to that very same ideolgy.
Euro 2012 could be a huge success on many fronts, Germany 2006 had similar concerns, but the powers that be must recognize the problems and not stay in denial.
And yeah we are Trinis.....we should know better than that....don't stoop to that level of wasting down an entire people whether we trying to get back against racism in European football or ethnocentric Jakan, Bajan or Bharain posters trying their best to disrupt this site.
The jews in Poland not the masses.
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The jews in Poland not the masses.
You need to review World History.
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The jews in Poland not the masses.
You think over 50,000 soldiers dead in less than 2 years were all Jews? They get it from all quarters, then when they tried to retreat and hide in along the Romanian border the Soviets lick them up. Poland probably suffered the largest genocide in Europe at the hands of Hitler.
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This is from Goal.com I think that there are good points here.
29/09/2008 English Debate: England - Pot Calling The Kettle Black
Alan Dawson asks if England are a hypocritical football association for criticising racism in other countries when it is clear they struggle with their own prejudices, judging from chants emanating from Premier League clubs in the past year...
Many commentators and ex-pros were outraged to hear that the Croatian Football Federation were only fined 15,000 as a result of small pockets of fans making monkey noises when England forward Emile Heskey received a yellow card for a challenge on Croatian captain Niko Kovac. However, shouldn't England sort out its own problems with racial insensitivity before it criticises other countries?
The English FA and the British press are vehemently critical of racist abuse inflicted upon any English star while on international duty. Ashley Cole was subject to racial chants while playing for England in Spain that left him trembling in the dressing room; Luis Aragones felt the wrath of tabloid and broadsheet opposition in the United Kingdom for his Jose Reyes pep-talk that included an unsavoury reference to then-Arsenal star Thierry Henry; and, more recently, solid England striker Emile Heskey was the centre of repugnant monkey taunts from pockets of Croatian fans while receiving a cautionary booking for a foul on Vatreni captain Niko Kovac.
These incidents are rightly vilified, but shouldn't England concentrate on tackling it's own problems with racially disparaging chants from the terraces of Premier League clubs before it criticises the actions of others?
Both the FA and fans alike will claim that racism has almost entirely been expelled from stands in England, and while you are unlikely to hear monkey noises like the ones heard in Spain or Croatia, there are still racially intolerant chants that are sung by not a pocket, but a barrack section of the stadium.
West Ham United supporters came under the interrogation floodlights while the Hammers lost a home game to London rivals Tottenham Hotspur in March 2007 for singing vitriolic chants that were filmed, posted on YouTube, and then removed when Spurs lodged a club complaint and police launched an official probe.
The video footage clearly displayed a section of the east end fans singing: "I'd rather be a P*ki... I'd rather be a P*ki... I'd rather be a P*ki than a Jew," to the tune of 'She'll be coming round the mountain.' Tottenham Hotspur have long been identified as having a large Jewish following, and while other fans will attempt to goad Spurs by calling them 'Yids', the lily whites took on the term 'Yid Army' as a badge of honour.
The chants heard at Upton Park 18 months ago were also accompanied by Nazi cries of "Sieg Heil" and "Heil Hitler". Tottenham registered their disgust with the FA; the Premier League; West Ham; and YouTube, but the White Hart Lane outfit are guilty of their own racially insensitive fans who disgracefully sing about Arsenal's Togolese striker Emmanuel Adebayor.
More recently, Tottenham fans, even when not playing Arsenal, shout: ''Adebayor... Adebayor... His dad washes elephants, and his mum is a whore," to the tune of the Westminster Chimes, as is evident from the video posted below.
Yes, these maybe isolated incidents, but tally these occasions up and you have three or four mawkish memories when looking back at the end of the season. With this in mind, is it not wildly hypocritical that England lambasts other countries' minority fans whom monkey chant at black English players while England itself is still obviously struggling with their own intolerances?
Alan Dawson
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These incidents are rightly vilified, but shouldn't England concentrate on tackling it's own problems with racially disparaging chants from the terraces of Premier League clubs before it criticises the actions of others?
No.
They are perfectly capable... and justified, in criticizing the behavior abroad while addressing the behavior at home as best they can.
you have three or four mawkish memories when looking back at the end of the season. With this in mind, is it not wildly hypocritical that England lambasts other countries' minority fans whom monkey chant at black English players while England itself is still obviously struggling with their own intolerances?
"three or four" incidents none of which, not individually nor collectively rise to the level of monkey chants. How in blooming hell then, does that make the protests of the English towards the behavior of the Croatian fans "wildly hypocritical"?
Wasted potential.
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white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go. most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.
them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
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white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go. most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.
them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
you really ent helping ::)
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white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go. most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.
them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
Aye, just cool! Yuh want some ketchup for that large chip on yuh shoulder?
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Been to football in Spain, Croatia, Serbia, Turkey, Germany, Scotland, Portugal and England. Of them, the only place that I did not experience any racist chanting (at least that I could hear) was in Portugal and that was probably because of the three games i saw there only about ah 1/4 of the players on the pitch was white. The worst was in Croatia where almost the whole stadium give these two african players abuse and missile whole game then the group I was with get attack outside ah bar post game....luckily Croatian cyah fight without gun.
Totally agree with Bake n Shark, England are doing more than most in Europe to combat not just racism but violence at football so I have to say England has every right to complain. Now I see what some posters mean about Goal.com and its articles.
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white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go. most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.
them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
the irony here is, this has to be one of the most racist posts on this site.....congrats
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white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go. most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.
them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
as yuh describing that all i could picture is prince charles.he like ah real monkey,bush kinda resemble one too.
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I starting tuh realize that men on here does take Just Cool too serious yes, lol
Midknight's response was probably best.
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white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go. most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.
them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
as yuh describing that all i could picture is prince charles.he like ah real monkey,bush kinda resemble one too.
Perceiving a resemblance is a subjective thing. Many will probably agree with you - for my part, I never thought about it. It's interesting though, that some time ago someone posted a pic of Jack Warner and son on this site, a forumite observed that he thought they looked like monkies, and the observation was widely unappreciated (and rightly so!). I can't be bothered to search for the thread but were you by chance one of the detractors?
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white ppl does chant monkey chant to diss black ppl , but in all honesty , they look more like monkeys to me. monkeys for the most part have black fur and some apes are black skin colour, but that's it as far as black and monkeys go. most species of monkeys have white flesh, with big ears and no lips, ah trait indicative of the white race.
them black boy doh know how to hit them back, that's why they continue with all this fackry bout black man look like monkeys. to me white ppl are the most uncivilized homosapiens on the planet. they only get along well with whites, and only whites they can co-exist with. i say kiss my monkey ass to all dem big ears thin lip hairy savages.
And your name is "just cool"?
Bakes is right- your radical (and sometimes inaccurate and baseless) posts are often not worth the energy...nevertheless:
The racist association of blacks & monkeys, I believe is more a knock on human progress, mental evolution/development and civilization, in addition to a geographic association of Monkeys with the African continent..... than it is a comment on mere physical resemblance (though it might be that as well)....
btw your post is very offensive.
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JC
fellas might start to call ya UnJust Cool
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in every race, religion ang country there are a few jackasses that gives everone a bad name it sucks but its the truth and racism is possible the hardest thing to top because when you charge a country's fa it not coming out of the racist supporters pocket
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And your name is "just cool"?
Bakes is right- your radical (and sometimes inaccurate and baseless) posts are often not worth the energy...nevertheless:
The racist association of blacks & monkeys, I believe is more a knock on human progress, mental evolution/development and civilization, in addition to a geographic association of Monkeys with the African continent..... than it is a comment on mere physical resemblance (though it might be that as well)....
btw your post is very offensive.
I've come to the conclusion that Just Cool has a very complicated view of white people that he himself hasn't quite figured out yet... at times he indicates (even in his personal life) that he has no issues with white people and have no problem treating people as individuals. At other times he let's his own frustrations and emotions bubble over into vile and offensive anti-white rants.
Which is why I stopped taking him too serious. Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting :rotfl: they completely missed the point I was making. To this day I don't think JC himself got it. Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.
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De stupidity of dat article is hurting my head. Goal.com should be banned from this message board.
- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant. Spurs (along with Arsenal) are probably the least racist clubs in Europe and have the second highest black attendances after Arsenal.
- Spurs nicknamed themselves the Yids (and they regularly chant it in the stands)
- The only valid points he had were the p*ki and Hitler chants...and neither of these examples mean that the English FA isnt correct to highlight racism, wherever it arises.
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Which is why I stopped taking him too serious. Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting :rotfl: they completely missed the point I was making. To this day I don't think JC himself got it. Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.
Not to rehash the past but if you read my entire post you would see that I spent much more time refuting jus cools ridiculous assertions than I did responding to you. There would be no way to construe my post as support/ignorance of just cool while attacking your position. If you read the entire post you would see that we were actually making similar points, i.e. that just cool was talking shit.
Also what we all now understand was parody on your part was simply misinterpreted at the time. Very easy to do since I didnt compare the structures to the two posts side by side. Read one (just cools) and scanned the other (yours). Remember that I dont/didnt know you from Adam and the only frame of reference I had for your comment at the time was a previous unashamed use of a racist term. Of course there was no opportunity to explain this mis-understanding at the time as the "dialogue" immediately descended into the usual profanities.
And yes I don't take on just cool either, makes no sense.
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interesting article. yes, it's much easier to take the moral high road when it's another league's fan base causing the problems.
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Which is why I stopped taking him too serious. Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting :rotfl: they completely missed the point I was making. To this day I don't think JC himself got it. Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.
Not to rehash the past but if you read my entire post you would see that I spent much more time refuting jus cools ridiculous assertions than I did responding to you. There would be no way to construe my post as support/ignorance of just cool while attacking your position. If you read the entire post you would see that we were actually making similar points, i.e. that just cool was talking shit.
Also what we all now understand was parody on your part was simply misinterpreted at the time. Very easy to do since I didnt compare the structures to the two posts side by side. Read one (just cools) and scanned the other (yours). Remember that I dont/didnt know you from Adam and the only frame of reference I had for your comment at the time was a previous unashamed use of a racist term. Of course there was no opportunity to explain this mis-understanding at the time as the "dialogue" immediately descended into the usual profanities.
And yes I don't take on just cool either, makes no sense.
Is no scenes... I just thought it shoulda been obvious what I was doing. At any rate, like yuh say, not to rehash the past... my central point is that this is nothing new for Just Cool, I won't defend it, but I also know enough at this point not to take him too seriously... especially not when his own kids are half white.
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
And if he was from England?
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
And if he was from England?
'African' itself is not a race... so I wouldn't equate that chant with racism, taking a dig at his birthland maybe. Besides it have elephants not too far from me here ;D
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And your name is "just cool"?
Bakes is right- your radical (and sometimes inaccurate and baseless) posts are often not worth the energy...nevertheless:
The racist association of blacks & monkeys, I believe is more a knock on human progress, mental evolution/development and civilization, in addition to a geographic association of Monkeys with the African continent..... than it is a comment on mere physical resemblance (though it might be that as well)....
btw your post is very offensive.
I've come to the conclusion that Just Cool has a very complicated view of white people that he himself hasn't quite figured out yet... at times he indicates (even in his personal life) that he has no issues with white people and have no problem treating people as individuals. At other times he let's his own frustrations and emotions bubble over into vile and offensive anti-white rants.
Which is why I stopped taking him too serious. Dunno if you remember just over a year ago when he posted something similar about white people... I took his post and made a parody of it, substituting black people for the whites in his... JDB and other men was up in arms calling me all kinda KKK and ting :rotfl: they completely missed the point I was making. To this day I don't think JC himself got it. Again, which is why I doh really take him too serious no more.
Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth! Some people grew up like that and some are still ignorant to the fact that it is a disease infested hatred and its not right. But some continue with the hate. I'm black; but was thought that anyone lighter than me was beautiful or was to be held in a higher class or category etc etc. Even Indian people, I used to tap up Indian people in primary school or just hate Indians because they were called coolie. I had to switch my way of thinking because of becoming a believer in Christ. People try to cover up racism, but its a plague in our society today. The only way one can be healed from such ignorants, is thru proper Education and Spirituality. That hatred started thru the slave trade by the Europeans to categorize slaves by skin color
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
And if he was from England?
Den dey wud haf 2 find something else to make fun of him ::)
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
And if he was from England?
His dad would be chugging his 10th pint, eating fish & chips and neglecting to brush his teeth.
There are cultural stereotypes from each part of the world, and unless they are (intentionally) insulting, we should learn to laugh at them, because truth is, many of them are actually funny...
Is there really anything wrong with washing an elephant?
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
And if he was from England?
His dad would be chugging his 10th pint, eating fish & chips, being a Hooligan at Football Matches, and neglecting to brush his teeth.
There are cultural stereotypes from each part of the world, and unless they are (intentionally) insulting, we should learn to laugh at them, because truth is, many of them are actually funny...
Is there really anything wrong with washing an elephant?
Fixed ;D
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Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth! Some people grew up like that and some are still ignorant to the fact that it is a disease infested hatred and its not right. But some continue with the hate. I'm black; but was thought that anyone lighter than me was beautiful or was to be held in a higher class or category etc etc. Even Indian people, I used to tap up Indian people in primary school or just hate Indians because they were called coolie. I had to switch my way of thinking because of becoming a believer in Christ. People try to cover up racism, but its a plague in our society today. The only way one can be healed from such ignorants, is thru proper Education and Spirituality. That hatred started thru the slave trade by the Europeans to categorize slaves by skin color
true talk... it certainly runs deeper than many of us willing to acknowledge, and sometimes we have to dig deep inside to find the root to the problem within our own selves.
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Is there really anything wrong with washing an elephant?
I know Jack and he friends from de three ring circus might take offense... :rotfl:
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it really is basic human nature to subjugate those around us who have no social power
just at the tip of my tongue fingers
the Caste and Feudal/Serfdom systems prove that
I guess the lightness or darkness of ones skin colour just gives some a "reason" to act the way they do
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- There is nothing racist about de Adebayor chant.
Maybe not, but would his father be washing elephants if he wasn't African ?
Nope.
If he was from the caribbean, his dad would be climbing coconut trees.
If he was from australia, his dad would be chasing kangaroos.
I dont c d problem.
And if he was from England?
'African' itself is not a race... so I wouldn't equate that chant with racism, taking a dig at his birthland maybe. Besides it have elephants not too far from me here ;D
I never said it was racist, and i purposely said African instead of Black.
I could however see why people (other than Adebayor of course) could find it offensive, and I'm not sure what the 'cultural' stereotype being propagated is in this case - that Africa is poor and underdevelopped and thus does not have cars that people can wash to make quick money? or that its people are more ecologically minded and tend to use means of natural transport that are more respectful of nature?
Which is why I asked what they would chant if he was English? I just want to know what I can say to someone that can be 'taking a dig' without being "anti-English" or offensive towards an entire continent.
I personally find that a simple sustained boo would suffice if one wants to single out one player for special treatment, but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.
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...Which is why I asked what they would chant if he was English? I just want to know what I can say to someone that can be 'taking a dig' without being "anti-English" or offensive towards an entire continent.
I personally find that a simple sustained boo would suffice if one wants to single out one player for special treatment, but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.
English fans are just notorious for making up a chant about any and everything... that the chants aren't always PC is a known commodity, the author just trying real hard, and failing to make out a charge of racism against them.
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I never said it was racist, and i purposely said African instead of Black.
I could however see why people (other than Adebayor of course) could find it offensive, and I'm not sure what the 'cultural' stereotype being propagated is in this case - that Africa is poor and underdevelopped and thus does not have cars that people can wash to make quick money? or that its people are more ecologically minded and tend to use means of natural transport that are more respectful of nature?
Which is why I asked what they would chant if he was English? I just want to know what I can say to someone that can be 'taking a dig' without being "anti-English" or offensive towards an entire continent.
I personally find that a simple sustained boo would suffice if one wants to single out one player for special treatment, but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.
midnight, u really being serious? dat adebayor chant iz nuthing compared to intercol. noone is asking for political correctness in football, iz part of d fun.
"boo" doh sound all dat intelligent to me. especially when the player isn't even in d stadium. :rotfl:
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but I suppose intelligence is not the first thing that one associates with the herd mentality among football fans.
Majoritarianism Baby ;)
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Latapy.. Russel Latapy.
He sips on rum under a coconut tree
His dad beats a steel drum on the sea
But he's Falkirk's one and onlyyyyyyyy....
Latapy!!
... shoot me now!
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Omar, is Wim that wrote that :devil:
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Latapy.. Russel Latapy.
He sips on rum under a coconut tree
His dad beats a steel drum on the sea
But he's Falkirk's one and onlyyyyyyyy....
Latapy!!
... shoot me now!
My only problem with this is.....it should be BY THE SEA and not ON THE SEA ;D
Big Up!
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Latapy.. Russel Latapy.
He sips on rum under a coconut tree
His dad beats a steel drum on the sea
But he's Falkirk's one and onlyyyyyyyy....
Latapy!!
... shoot me now!
My only problem with this is.....it should be BY THE SEA and not ON THE SEA ;D
Big Up!
nah, just hadda accentuate the ignorance..
what i shoulda really say is "sip rum IN A TREE" :devil:
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Point taken :beermug:
Reminds me of that sasame street song....there are chickens in the tree....or something so...lol
Big Up!
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Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!
That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.
This is for Desowa:
There are chickens in the trees
There are chickens in the trees
Won't you listen to me please
There are chickens in the trees
Chickens in the trees video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvv5gL1pGb0)
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Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!
That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.
You have me here checking the definition of "ingrained" to see if there's a difference.
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I should have said inherent or intrinsic instead ;D.
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midnight, u really being serious? dat adebayor chant iz nuthing compared to intercol. noone is asking for political correctness in football, iz part of d fun.
Let me hear what you hear in Intercol. Apparently in my day, it was kinda tame. You could PM it if you shame.
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Yeah man bring it we're all adults here.......I was going to say MATURE adults but then ah ketch mehself :P
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Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!
That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.
This is for Desowa:
There are chickens in the trees
There are chickens in the trees
Won't you listen to me please
There are chickens in the trees
Chickens in the trees video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvv5gL1pGb0)
If a child is thought a habit from birth; don't you think that after ah while it becomes a conscience habit, which would then become a chemical reaction stream from the brains cells...then its imbedded into the blood line anyhow yuh put it, but some ah alyuh to deep.
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If a child is thought a habit from birth; don't you think that after ah while it becomes a conscience habit, which would then become a chemical reaction stream from the brains cells...then its imbedded into the blood line anyhow yuh put it, but some ah alyuh to deep.
I am sure some will go against the "gene".......
sort of "Rage against the BadGene" ;D
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I call it the way i see it ! all who want to be diplomatic, then be my guest!
i encounter nuff racism in the life , so if i get this one wrong , then 1 out of ah 100 ain't that bad @ all.
i could tell allyuh soft ass sympathizer one thing though, i believe non ah allyuh ever had to live in ah controlled environment with ah bunch ah fackin skinhead neo nazi's, and KKK minded cowboys who didn't have no quorums with calling ah red man like trezeguet ah fackinnn naayyyggeeerrr ! that's how horrorable they are, and allyuh defending dem dogs.
i don't want to be ah pragmatist in this situation! dem MDCNTs dun controll the bulk ah the worlds wealth when they have little to no resources and allyuh want to defend their honor, they are thieves, oppressors, and imperialist conquerer.
to the clown who said it was the most racist post you ever seen, take the fackin yampee out yuh eyes. what yuh have to say about 400 yrs of slavery and 100 yrs of colonialism. ah thought so!!!!!!
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I call it the way i see it ! all who want to be diplomatic, then be my guest!
i encounter nuff racism in the life , so if i get this one wrong , then 1 out of ah 100 ain't that bad @ all.
i could tell allyuh soft ass sympathizer one thing though, i believe non ah allyuh ever had to live in ah controlled environment with ah bunch ah fackin skinhead neo nazi's, and KKK minded cowboys who didn't have no quorums with calling ah red man like trezeguet ah fackinnn naayyyggeeerrr ! that's how horrorable they are, and allyuh defending dem dogs.
i don't want to be ah pragmatist in this situation! dem MDCNTs dun controll the bulk ah the worlds wealth when they have little to no resources and allyuh want to defend their honor, they are thieves, oppressors, and imperialist conquerer.
to the clown who said it was the most racist post you ever seen, take the fackin yampee out yuh eyes. what yuh have to say about 400 yrs of slavery and 100 yrs of colonialism. ah thought so!!!!!!
Well look Bacchanal. ;D
So Just Cool, we must continue to battle racism with anger and hatred in return? Will that really solve the issue? No! Martin Luther King speech is coming to past, yuh ent see Obama about to become President in one of the worlds, I believe most racism countries. White people, black people voting for a BLACK MAN to become the next president of the United State of America. We could all come to a medium on this than hating the opposition in return. Knowledge, Character and Faith is what one must possess to overcome thee Haters
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Thanks 4 d Sesame Street dat bring back nice memories nice light mood while discussing racism
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I call it the way i see it ! all who want to be diplomatic, then be my guest!
i encounter nuff racism in the life , so if i get this one wrong , then 1 out of ah 100 ain't that bad @ all.
i could tell allyuh soft ass sympathizers one thing though, i believe non ah allyuh ever had to live in ah controlled environment with ah bunch ah fackin skinhead neo nazi's, and KKK minded cowboys who didn't have no quorums with calling ah red man like trezeguet ah fackinnn naayyyggeeerrr ! that's how horrorable they are, and allyuh defending dem dogs.
i don't want to be ah pragmatist in this situation! dem MDCNTs dun controll the bulk ah the worlds wealth when they have little to no resources and allyuh want to defend their honor, they are thieves, oppressors, and imperialist conquerer.
to the clown who said it was the most racist post you ever seen, take the fackin yampee out yuh eyes. what yuh have to say about 400 yrs of slavery and 100 yrs of colonialism. ah thought so!!!!!!
Well look Bacchanal. ;D
So Just Cool, we must continue to battle racism with anger and hatred in return? Will that really solve the issue? No! Martin Luther King speech is coming to past, yuh ent see Obama about to become President in one of the worlds, I believe most racism countries. White people, black people voting for a BLACK MAN to become the next president of the United State of America. We could all come to a medium on this than hating the opposition in return. Knowledge, Character and Faith is what one must possess to overcome thee Haters
Allyuh does take things too literal and out of context, love to put words in man mouth,and instigate racism when there's none.
when i say white , i don't mean white ppl in general , when i say white i talking bout ah white supremacist system, and not so much individualistic.
this world monetary system was fueled and established by slave labour / colonial money. and it's retained and up held by white supremacist policies. just look @ the countries that are underdeveloped, most of them are rich in natural resources, but are far in debt up to their chins, and most are countries of colour.
i agree and acknowledge there are a high % of white ppl who are not racist and help to establish justice in the world, but for the most part whites sit back and enjoy the privilege of being white and seldom even opposed the system of it's racist policies.
how many of yuhs ever really investigate the amount of genocide that was and still is commited in the name economic stability ? what about foreign policy ?
allyuh better read ah forkin book and stop calling me names that cannot be substantiated !! or better yet ! if yuh live in the US of A , try and listen to WBAI for an accurate view of the world we live in and turn off kiss FM and KTU for ah change and gain some prospective !
as for those who live in T&T, i sorry for allyuh , BC allyuh ain't have ah prayer when it comes to ah so called liberal view of the world, that's BC allyuh was so colonized and programmed that allyuh might even try to kill jesus if he came back to teach allyuh sense,so stay in darkness and pick up ah flag , ah rag, and wave.
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Allyuh does take things too literal and out of context, love to put words in man mouth,and instigate racism when there's none.
when i say white , i don't mean white ppl in general , when i say white i talking bout ah white supremacist system, and not so much individualistic.
this world monetary system was fueled and established by slave labour / colonial money. and it's retained and up held by white supremacist policies. just look @ the countries that are underdeveloped, most of them are rich in natural resources, but are far in debt up to their chins, and most are countries of colour.
i agree and acknowledge there are a high % of white ppl who are not racist and help to establish justice in the world, but for the most part whites sit back and enjoy the privilege of being white and seldom even opposed the system of it's racist policies.
how many of yuhs ever really investigate the amount of genocide that was and still is commited in the name economic stability ? what about foreign policy ?
allyuh better read ah forkin book and stop calling me names that cannot be substantiated !! or better yet ! if yuh live in the US of A , try and listen to WBAI for an accurate view of the world we live in and turn off kiss FM and KTU for ah change and gain some prospective !
as for those who live in T&T, i sorry for allyuh , BC allyuh ain't have ah prayer when it comes to ah so called liberal view of the world, that's BC allyuh was so colonized and programmed that allyuh might even try to kill jesus if he came back to teach allyuh sense,so stay in darkness and pick up ah flag , ah rag, and wave.
As much as I don't disagree with anything here that you said... much of it smacks of rationalization after the fact. Saying white people look like monkeys and what not is a far cry from criticizing this mythical "white supremacist system" that you rail against.
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Do we as a people really understand that this racism thing is imbedded deeply into our blood line from birth!
That is BS racism is learned not ingrained.
This is for Desowa:
There are chickens in the trees
There are chickens in the trees
Won't you listen to me please
There are chickens in the trees
Chickens in the trees video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvv5gL1pGb0)
If a child is thought a habit from birth; don't you think that after ah while it becomes a conscience habit, which would then become a chemical reaction stream from the brains cells...then its imbedded into the blood line anyhow yuh put it, but some ah alyuh to deep.
You highlight the sentence wrong.......it's "deeply in our bloodline from birth" which I took as people being intrinsicly racist...which again is a load. When you put young children in a room together they they will play and make friends regardless of race, color, creed or religion. It's only after they're taught to hate will they discriminate.
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I guess everyone have their own views of this whole black and white issue and despite what, some may not change their views.
We must ask ourselves if we are real children of GOD and or not hypocrites, should we judge ah man by the color of his skin or the texture of his hair. No one is saying to be nave to the fact that the problem still do exists, but how can we defuse or add to the problem. It is your choice! Shalom.
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Racism is a taught behaviour for the most part, and for the most part doesn't really exist in the English game although, no matter what anybody does it is not going to be wiped out.
It really stems back to jobs thing and where populations were strongest for example in London it was black, in Birmingham and Yorkshire it is more Pakistani / Indian as those are where the populations tended to be the biggest.
It never really existed in the North East as we never had big populations, that significantly changed the area, very few Africans, mostly indians or pakistanni. It is now turning more towards Eastern Europeans because so many have come into the country, I would imagine as jobs dry up more racism will appear.
I suppose if you are sensitive about it or that way inclined you tend to notice it more, whereas I don't tend to. I always find it strange that it is always aimed at white people but some of the biggest racist I have met have been both black and white.
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Allyuh does take things too literal and out of context, love to put words in man mouth,and instigate racism when there's none.
when i say white , i don't mean white ppl in general , when i say white i talking bout ah white supremacist system, and not so much individualistic.
this world monetary system was fueled and established by slave labour / colonial money. and it's retained and up held by white supremacist policies. just look @ the countries that are underdeveloped, most of them are rich in natural resources, but are far in debt up to their chins, and most are countries of colour.
i agree and acknowledge there are a high % of white ppl who are not racist and help to establish justice in the world, but for the most part whites sit back and enjoy the privilege of being white and seldom even opposed the system of it's racist policies.
how many of yuhs ever really investigate the amount of genocide that was and still is commited in the name economic stability ? what about foreign policy ?
allyuh better read ah forkin book and stop calling me names that cannot be substantiated !! or better yet ! if yuh live in the US of A , try and listen to WBAI for an accurate view of the world we live in and turn off kiss FM and KTU for ah change and gain some prospective !
as for those who live in T&T, i sorry for allyuh , BC allyuh ain't have ah prayer when it comes to ah so called liberal view of the world, that's BC allyuh was so colonized and programmed that allyuh might even try to kill jesus if he came back to teach allyuh sense,so stay in darkness and pick up ah flag , ah rag, and wave.
As much as I don't disagree with anything here that you said... much of it smacks of rationalization after the fact. Saying white people look like monkeys and what not is a far cry from criticizing this mythical "white supremacist system" that you rail against.
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
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Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
Lol... I hear yuh
... but at least you recognize that you run the risk of letting it "turn you into an equally racist fool"... ;)
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Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol.
Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....
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if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
it still begs the question
Why?
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if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
it still begs the question
Why?
Back in the day,massa didn't mind laying pipe with slave women especially deflowering them all the while hating the black man.Could be just a case of 'What's good for the Goose'.We might be a little hazy about 'The Why', but cock sure about 'The Why Not.' No pun intended.
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All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol.
Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....
lol
the black panther man in I'm Gonna git you sucker... :rotfl:
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He shoots
He scores
He'll eat your labradors
Ji Sung Park
Ji Sung Park
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Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol. Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....
that is somting ? you act like i murder somebody ?!! yuh know For all the time i on this forum , i tried to avoid knuckle heads like you ,BC just like another member , your view don't help to educate , enlighten or create positive discourse that may serve as a source of useful valuable information.
and even if i wanted to answer you i will desist, there's no point in engaging the fool hearted. you May wonder why i refer to you as such . well your record speak for it self! and of all the questions that this sensitive topic could encourage, look @ the one you choose to invoke, talk about bacchanalist ole hoe possey in hand half slip over the titie wearing question. mind yuh fackin business GYULLL! i could do what the fack i want with my life!
but for all who was wondering the same thing,i will oblige. for the last time, i believe in justice, and i put in ah fair amount of time in many differant orgs volunteering and helping the less fortunate, i hate oppression and insincerity with ah passion.
now for the time i spend away from T&T i've been around quite ah few differant cultures, and i came to the conclusion that i would not mix my seed with any other race but my own,so i set out to meet women of my persuasion, and no disrespect to my black sistren, it have a lot of positive well grounded women in all ethnic groups, however ah small fraction live in the Northeast @ least TMO, BC for the most part i've met quite ah few insincere selfish opportunistic women, with no social consciousness whatsoever, and ah mind set that life is what you see on the tube, but the most amazing part of that was, the vast majority with that disposition were black women.
in the places i've volunteered were asian women , south americans and whites, never have i met black daughters volunteering their time or involved in any social net works. and to me that's what make ah woman attractive and appealing , i not in the princess business , i want ah daughter who's not ashamed to put her shoulders to the wheel, one who not caught up in fackry, with ah positive earthy out look on life. so the daughters i network with was the ones i dated simple.
i not saying it eh have no positive sisters, but they are extreemly rare in this neck of the woods! just pure saga gyul and models.
PS: you perceive me as militant and angy, but that's not who i am, that's your preception of ppl who don't turn ah blind eye , ppl who's not afraid to speak the truth , the way they see it.
-
Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
-
He shoots
He scores
He'll eat your labradors
Ji Sung Park
Ji Sung Park
on a side note:
my bro works in Korea and he says that they will beat the dogs to death as the beating releases something into the blood stream.....too bad that they can't use a quick method to kill the dogs.
-
Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.
i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!
who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!
ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
-
Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.
i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!
who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!
ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
-
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
All dat setta black man bark and militant anger and yuh child mudder is white.....lol. Glad to know you could share the love beyond your race but seriously, you could star in a low budget Wayans brothers spoof....
that is somting ? you act like i murder somebody ?!! yuh know For all the time i on this forum , i tried to avoid knuckle heads like you ,BC just like another member , your view don't help to educate , enlighten or create positive discourse that may serve as a source of useful valuable information.
and even if i wanted to answer you i will desist, there's no point in engaging the fool hearted. you May wonder why i refer to you as such . well your record speak for it self! and of all the questions that this sensitive topic could encourage, look @ the one you choose to invoke, talk about bacchanalist ole hoe possey in hand half slip over the titie wearing question. mind yuh fackin business GYULLL! i could do what the fack i want with my life!
but for all who was wondering the same thing,i will oblige. for the last time, i believe in justice, and i put in ah fair amount of time in many differant orgs volunteering and helping the less fortunate, i hate oppression and insincerity with ah passion.
now for the time i spend away from T&T i've been around quite ah few differant cultures, and i came to the conclusion that i would not mix my seed with any other race but my own,so i set out to meet women of my persuasion, and no disrespect to my black sistren, it have a lot of positive well grounded women in all ethnic groups, however ah small fraction live in the Northeast @ least TMO, BC for the most part i've met quite ah few insincere selfish opportunistic women, with no social consciousness whatsoever, and ah mind set that life is what you see on the tube, but the most amazing part of that was, the vast majority with that disposition were black women.
in the places i've volunteered were asian women , south americans and whites, never have i met black daughters volunteering their time or involved in any social net works. and to me that's what make ah woman attractive and appealing , i not in the princess business , i want ah daughter who's not ashamed to put her shoulders to the wheel, one who not caught up in fackry, with ah positive earthy out look on life. so the daughters i network with was the ones i dated simple.
i not saying it eh have no positive sisters, but they are extreemly rare in this neck of the woods! just pure saga gyul and models.
PS: you perceive me as militant and angy, but that's not who i am, that's your preception of ppl who don't turn ah blind eye , ppl who's not afraid to speak the truth , the way they see it.
ha- I never asked you to explain yourself- that's your business and I don't care. It's just kinda funny how words & actions sometimes kinda paint divergent pictures....often parodied in comedies. It was all a joke. Thanks for the flattering comments nevertheless.
-
hear nuh
all ah allya
thanks for the laughs
-
the goal.com article is beyond stupid. Of course there are problems with racism in english football....difference the FA and police actually do something about it and take action. I have been to games in Spain, Italt and France and little or no action takes place there. Go to PSG ground and there is whole section controlled by skinheads with racist banners and chants and nothing has been done for years.
-
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
-
Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong
This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.
-
Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong
This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.
Nothing racist about that.
If the man went and put his business out in the road, the fact that he black is only incidental to the entire scenario. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure it would even fall into the category of abuse, more like compliments in a world with a phallocentric conception of virility.
On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?
-
On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?
It had Watergate, it had de Iran-Contra affair, now it have de Roast Fowl Controversy :rotfl:.
-
He shoots
He scores
He'll eat your labradors
Ji Sung Park
Ji Sung Park
if allyuh cyar sing that allyuh rellllllllll boring boy
that funny i doh care what allyuh say
and on a side note. black people could only talk racism but we does lime and bull everybody
justcool just talking cause i know he like all kinda meat. white, chinese, mongolian, mexican etc........
-
As I traveled on my way to work on the subway this morning, there were two beautiful looking Spanish/Brazilian women sitting together. They stood out of the majority of people on the train in the back of my invested racist prejudice mind. Why? It just hit me that I categories people by the way they look or the facial features, skin color, texture of hair, shape and size. I was just as bad as the KKK and Thee Nazis whatever! What we call beautiful, is it what GOD call beautiful? If Whoopi Goldberg and Eva Mendez stood on a platform together before the world. Guess who wed choose! The majority of People would choose Eva Mendez. Our minds are so polluted and it just goes to show that the problem is much more than white people hating blacks or being prejudice. Let us search ourselves. Take a look at how our eyes and minds are trained/polluted to whos beautiful.
(http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/wehitis/whoopi-goldberg.jpg)
(http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/wehitis/eva-mendes-earrings.jpg)
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lol..
this thread is some kicks.
-
As I traveled on my way to work on the subway this morning, there were two beautiful looking Spanish/Brazilian women sitting together. They stood out of the majority of people on the train in the back of my invested racist prejudice mind. Why? It just hit me that I categories people by the way they look or the facial features, skin color, texture of hair, shape and size. I was just as bad as the KKK and Thee Nazis whatever! What we call beautiful, is it what GOD call beautiful? If Whoopi Goldberg and Eva Mendez stood on a platform together before the world. Guess who wed choose! The majority of People would choose Eva Mendez. Our minds are so polluted and it just goes to show that the problem is much more than white people hating blacks or being prejudice. Let us search ourselves. Take a look at how our eyes and minds are trained/polluted to whos beautiful.
I dunno fren
If Tyra Banks and Roseanne Barr was on the same train ...you eh think yuh trained mind would untrain itself one time
de pollution go come clear
Ok, to get closer to the ethnicities in your example pics,, Wendy Fitzwilliam or Rosie Perez
-
Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong
This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.
Nothing racist about that.
If the man went and put his business out in the road, the fact that he black is only incidental to the entire scenario. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure it would even fall into the category of abuse, more like compliments in a world with a phallocentric conception of virility.
On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?
Never said that did I?
I just put it forward as an example of how these sorts of chants can be misinterpreted...
-
talk about bacchanalist ole hoe possey in hand half slip over the titie wearing question
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
jc, this make me laugh breds.
-
Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.
i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!
who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!
ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!
-
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
You could only find fault with me,and not dem racist whites, and yuh can't sympahtize with my diposition niether, but if ah fella only call yuh ah coolie yuh ready to bring down god and the angels just like the jew! ah get yuh drift partner, ah niggar is just like ah dog , we could take dis!! we skin tough.
and we can't complain about 400 yrs of slavery aparthied and colonialism niether! after all massa feed we and clothe we, plus he teach we how to wear clothes and shoes, brush we teeth with tooth paste,eat with knife and fork, save we soul from damnation, BC we used to worship idols, introduce us to civilization as we know it! so how dare i bring up racist back lash when ah fella constanly insulting me without provocation! how ungreatful of me !tell meh, how much justice and understanding yuh have in yuh even though you're not the victim ?!! could you see life from another man's prospective and be just without prejudice ?
just ask cyd gray how he felt on septenbet 10th 2008, ah bet he felt more like me than you!!
-
dis thread have alot of sensitive cats.....wow
Mr Bake shock mih wid some of he posts....sensible, calm, nifty.
Some odders have real issues...like dem on d forum makin subconcious calls for counsellin.
We all know racism is taught and learned beahaviour but I aint really postin to get into d schematics of all ah dat.
I jus find dat men hadda find some kinda hobby....when ah dude hadda spit so much fire to everybody, it mean dat he have real problems.....dis forum have ah hyperlink to Dr Phil or Tyra?
D moderators should set up dat
-
Since yuh so concerned about man mental state then Bring yuh gyul as therapy nah.
even if she's unattractive she would be well received.
no wonder it have so much murder in TRINI, it have real macomare man livin deh now,ah far cry from when i was there, imagine fellas want to analyse man now!
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point proven
-
point proven
Go yuh road with yuh gyul attitude nah fella !! i doh have nutten fuh yuh!
-
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
You could only find fault with me,and not dem racist whites, and yuh can't sympahtize with my diposition niether, but if ah fella only call yuh ah coolie yuh ready to bring down god and the angels just like the jew! ah get yuh drift partner, ah niggar is just like ah dog , we could take dis!! we skin tough.
and we can't complain about 400 yrs of slavery aparthied and colonialism niether! after all massa feed we and clothe we, plus he teach we how to wear clothes and shoes, brush we teeth with tooth paste,eat with knife and fork, save we soul from damnation, BC we used to worship idols, introduce us to civilization as we know it! so how dare i bring up racist back lash when ah fella constanly insulting me without provocation! how ungreatful of me !tell meh, how much justice and understanding yuh have in yuh even though you're not the victim ?!! could you see life from another man's prospective and be just without prejudice ?
just ask cyd gray how he felt on septenbet 10th 2008, ah bet he felt more like me than you!!
(1) if a man call me coolie I would laugh since i not even indian
(2) it is obvious that no one could rationalize with you so take win :beermug:
-
Listen brother , i had to listen to ppl refer to black ppl as apes , monkeys , ugly , dirty looking, bad hair, naygar , jiggerboo all my life ! and after a while it does get to yuh and turn you into an equally racist fool, that all you want to do is distribute some of that pain back into the direction it came.
so my logic was , if yuh live in ah paper house, yuh shouldn't play with matches, make sure yuh are free of blemish before yuh scoff at my pimples, that was my logic! if i hurt any one in the process, then GOOD!!!!
if i really believed what i said about them looking like monkeys , then i wouldn't have pro created with their women.
PS: ask cyd gray how he felt in illinios on sept 10th, when those dark hearted fans was chanting racist slurs with intent to wound and hurt his moral.
at least we agree on one ting
You could only find fault with me,and not dem racist whites, and yuh can't sympahtize with my diposition niether, but if ah fella only call yuh ah coolie yuh ready to bring down god and the angels just like the jew! ah get yuh drift partner, ah niggar is just like ah dog , we could take dis!! we skin tough.
and we can't complain about 400 yrs of slavery aparthied and colonialism niether! after all massa feed we and clothe we, plus he teach we how to wear clothes and shoes, brush we teeth with tooth paste,eat with knife and fork, save we soul from damnation, BC we used to worship idols, introduce us to civilization as we know it! so how dare i bring up racist back lash when ah fella constanly insulting me without provocation! how ungreatful of me !tell meh, how much justice and understanding yuh have in yuh even though you're not the victim ?!! could you see life from another man's prospective and be just without prejudice ?
just ask cyd gray how he felt on septenbet 10th 2008, ah bet he felt more like me than you!!
(1) if a man call me coolie I would laugh since i not even indian
(2) it is obvious that no one could rationalize with you so take win :beermug:
my mistake, i swore there was a lime in canada where there was a picture of an indian fella with the name lickslikefire as the as to dipict the dude in the photo. my bad.
-
Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.
i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!
who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!
ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!
I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.
Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.
But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:
Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole
Stay "Cool".
-
(http://www.theclaydawgs.com/forum/images/smilies/hammers.gif)
sorry wrong thread excuse me
(http://www.theclaydawgs.com/forum/images/smilies/hide2.gif)
-
Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.
i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!
who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!
ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!
I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.
Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.
But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:
Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole
Stay "Cool".
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!
yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!
don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.
you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.
but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.
yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.
PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!
you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back. positive.
-
Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.
i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!
who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!
ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!
I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.
Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.
But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:
Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole
Stay "Cool".
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!
yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!
don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.
you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.
but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.
yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.
PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!
you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back. positive.
Aye leave me outta your self righteous diatribe nuh...enough is enough. I made one lil joke...and it wasn't even that personal (unless you take yourself way way too seriously which is becoming more evident by the day)..... and you're the one who opened up a can of personal insults on me. Put me in my place? haha....that's a laugh- stop flattering yourself. For the record I not on you (or anyone for that matter)...so doh be on me either... thanks.
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Try harder
In other news
Police to act on Campbell taunts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7647138.stm)
Police are to investigate racial and homophobic abuse directed at Portsmouth and former England defender Sol Campbell at Fratton Park.
The Portsmouth captain was subjected to taunts during his team's 2-0 Premiership home win over Tottenham on 28 September.
Yuhs ah pure hater pumpus ass middle class spoiled bratt. go learn what real life is and leave off from under mammy shirt tail where yuh learn to smart mouth ppl without showing yuh face.
i did it all silver spoon !! and with out the help from mommy and daddy you little private school turd!!
who the fack is you to talk me ! do you know what it's like to be hungry homeless cold and have ah preditor looking for yuh to erase yuh from the face............. you can't talk to me you little fend for snatt nose english wannabe !!
ah tired ah allyuh little marsh mellow mutha fackers scrutanizing me ah old battled scared mongrell @ that !! fack off mothers boy !!! you and yuh girl friend kicker in the p#ssy !!!!
Just wanted to save this for posterity, before the bad weed wear off and you decide to delete it.
Save it up yuh ass hole if yuh wish girl friend!! no sweat of ah my nuts!!
I never once call your name, call you out or otherwise insult you in this thread, nor anywhere else for that matter. Your unprovoked agression only proves your hypocrisy when you're ready to call out other people as haters and cussbuds. I'm not sure what me posting a story about the topic at hand has to do with you being homeless, cold or me being spoilt and middle class, but that's neither here nor there for me.
Hoss. Whatever people do you, your ancestors and your descendants in life is your business. Who you choose to marry, procreate with, or screw is your business. How you choose to go through life is your business. I have never and will never criticise a man's choices about those things. If you want to become a monster so the monster cannot hurt you that is your business.
But learn to accept good advice when it walk up to you and buss a slap in yuh face:
Just, because you're good at spewing level shite, it don't mean you have to act like an asshole
Stay "Cool".
that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!
yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!
don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.
you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.
but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.
yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.
PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!
you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back. positive.
Aye leave me outta your self righteous diatribe nuh...enough is enough. I made one lil joke...and it wasn't even that personal (unless you take yourself way way too seriously which is becoming more evident by the day)..... and you're the one who opened up a can of personal insults on me. Put me in my place? haha....that's a laugh- stop flattering yourself. For the record I not on you (or anyone for that matter)...so doh be on me either... thanks.
Love and happiness...
something that can make you do wrong, make you do right...
Love...
Love and happiness
Wait a minute...
something's going wrong
someone's on the phone
three o'clock in the morning
talkin' about how we can make it right
well,
happiness is when you really feel good with somebody
nothing wrong with being in one with someone
oh, baby, love and happiness
love and happiness...
love and happiness... Thanks to AL Green ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfWPDGWP568
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that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!
yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!
don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.
you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.
but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.
yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.
PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!
you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back. positive.
If it wasn't for you I wouldn't know I needed to check myself into the clinic. Thanks for the psychoanalysis Sigmund. In addition to knowing that my frustration lies from the oedipus complex linked to being perpetually under my mother's skirt and eating with my father's silver spoon, I now also realise that my desire to actually be able to understand what I read is some sort of latent impulse of oneupmanship to demarcate myself from the proletarianism to which my black skin eternally binds me despite my "middle class background" and "private school education"...
As for my last sentence, was I supposed to react to your sudden burst of insults by holding my cheek and acting shocked? My Bad. I didn't get the memo.
I find it somewhat ludicrous that you have to harp back to a spelling suggestion that I made probably more than a year ago to explain your response. I won't waste time going into the how and the why of yours (or weary's) posting style - as far as I'm concerned it has no bearing on anything at the present moment. All I can say is that it what you call being "on your case" then you have much more serious problems than my "passive aggressivity".
Two aspirin and a good night's sleep usually clears it up I believe.
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Its huge
Its long
Its Dion Dublins dong
This was sang many years back when it became public knowledge that Dion Dublin was a very well endowed fella.
Nothing racist about that.
If the man went and put his business out in the road, the fact that he black is only incidental to the entire scenario. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure it would even fall into the category of abuse, more like compliments in a world with a phallocentric conception of virility.
On the other hand, I suppose if you substitute Dion Dublin with any black player, there could be an argument about perpetuating (phenotypical?) stereotypes, but if for instance the same thing was sung about Dwight after the whole Mark Bosnich orgy business or the other guy they caught in the roast fowl controversy recently, it could hardly be considered racist, can it?
Never said that did I?
I just put it forward as an example of how these sorts of chants can be misinterpreted...
I should have phrased my response differently, I guess.
We're both on the same page.
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that's what you call it, you acting like i'm ah mad man who for no reason go around cussing out ppl. FYI you're ah very antagonistic person who carries out their aggression in ah passive way!
yuh may not tell ah fella how he mudda make him like meh self and other dudes when provoked, but your implications are just as hurtful, if not more!
don't try to paint no pretty picture of yuh self! since i became ah member you, kicker, and couple other members has been nothing less than unaccommodating to me ,and that's OK by me! BC i not here to make friends or net work in any shape form or fashion,i'm here just to have ah laugh with irie ppl and talk football.
you was the one every time i post found fault with my grammar and the configuration of the paragraphs like yuhs ah english teacher, when there's far More worthy ppl to correct like weary 1969 who i believe does write like that on purpose for ah kick,and there was no mention to her, only me.
but yuh steady on my case without cease, and now when i react yuh trying to paint yuh self as innocent and i as the scandalous aggressor.
yuhs ah passive aggressive fella ! if yuh don't believe meh , just read the last sentence in yuh reply! innocent ppl doh behave like that.
PS :i never ask you to care bout me nor my predicessors or the ppl that i spurn with, kicker get personnal with me and i put him in he place, and you decide to drink bush for kicker 's fever, so that's on you homey! as for my predicessors, i never ask yuh to care bout them, but doh get in the way either when i bunning the ppl dat rape and pillage them, BC i doh give ah fack when it come to that!
you stay clear of me if yuh doh like oppossition, but if yuh like to taunt man and grin behind yuh PC, then look for me to lash back. positive.
If it wasn't for you I wouldn't know I needed to check myself into the clinic. Thanks for the psychoanalysis Sigmund. In addition to knowing that my frustration lies from the oedipus complex linked to being perpetually under my mother's skirt and eating with my father's silver spoon, I now also realise that my desire to actually be able to understand what I read is some sort of latent impulse of oneupmanship to demarcate myself from the proletarianism to which my black skin eternally binds me despite my "middle class background" and "private school education"...
As for my last sentence, was I supposed to react to your sudden burst of insults by holding my cheek and acting shocked? My Bad. I didn't get the memo.
I find it somewhat ludicrous that you have to harp back to a spelling suggestion that I made probably more than a year ago to explain your response. I won't waste time going into the how and the why of yours (or weary's) posting style - as far as I'm concerned it has no bearing on anything at the present moment. All I can say is that it what you call being "on your case" then you have much more serious problems than my "passive aggressivity".
Two aspirin and a good night's sleep usually clears it up I believe.
Yuhs ah real mama man guy, trust meh ! yuh and yuh girl fren kickher !
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England defender Rio Ferdinand has accused FIFA of going soft on racism after failing to deduct points from Croatia.
The Croatian Football Federation was fined 30,000 Swiss francs (15,000) by FIFA for racist abuse aimed at Emile Heskey in England's 4-1 World Cup qualifying win in Zagreb.
Ferdinand said FIFA had failed to act strongly enough.
"The football authorities need to look at themselves. They make a lot of comments and say they are going to do this or that but they never back up the words with actions," Ferdinand told BBC Radio Five Live.
"Croatia were fined a few thousand pounds. What good is that going to do? They will just keep doing it. If they keep doing things like this you have to take points off them. Then the punters will start thinking if they do it, the team is going to be punished."
Croatia's football federation was also fined nearly 12,500 euros for the racist behaviour of fans at the team's Euro 2008 quarter-final against Turkey in June.
Ferdinand said not enough was being done to combat racism, despite FIFA's decree that it would continue "deploying all of the means at its disposal to eliminate this form of discrimination".
Ferdinand added: "These people at FIFA and UEFA seem to like talking about a lot of stuff that is fashionable at the time. They don't deal with the important things in the right manner.
"I would love to see them stand up and dish out the right punishments for these incidents. Sepp Blatter likes to speak up about things that are good for FIFA's image.
"It would be nice to see him do the same about racism."
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Very well said Rio racism is not 2 b taken lightly
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yup thierry say so years ago too
but check this
eufa and fifa run by majority old rich white men
dock points and ban from competitions will make associations and gov't act
we all know those who doh listen does feel, stop pussy footing FIFA
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chelski make a good looking anti-racism video.
big up to dem for that.
look a clip from it here.
i want to see it but it only in chelsea tv now.
anybody from the UK could record and share?
http://digg.com/soccer/Chelsea_FC_Black_and_Blue_An_Anti_Racism_Video
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Boo Hoo. A bunch of black fellas cryin' about racism....blah blah...
When the white players start standing up against racism in football, in a vocal and outspoken manner...and when the white players start walking off the field at the sound of monkey chants, then we in business...
Everybody expects the abused to cry...when everyone starts to cry then ppl will realize that this is not a problem affecting black players, it's a problem everyone.
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Good video ... even though Anelka sound like a flower power child talking about only love in this game
However, I remember our own Shaka had gotten interviewed, as he was one of the main persons in the early days of promoting the anti-racism policies.
He said something to the tune that one day he was filling up his car at the gas station, and these kids started hurling vitriolic racist abuse at him. Then as they approached him, they realised who he was and immediately acted as though they had seen the Messiah.
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Good video ... even though Anelka sound like a flower power child talking about only love in this game
However, I remember our own Shaka had gotten interviewed, as he was one of the main persons in the early days of promoting the anti-racism policies.
He said something to the tune that one day he was filling up his car at the gas station, and these kids started hurling vitriolic racist abuse at him. Then as they approached him, they realised who he was and immediately acted as though they had seen the Messiah.
good talk. he said they actually asked for his autograph when they make him out.
Eto'o says the same thing happens to him in Barcelona.
kicker is right. you need the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Raul, Casillas, etc look at the monkey chanters in Spain and just walk off the field..Until then, the message will have some power but not anywhere near the kinda power it could have. de fans have to see their national heros take a stance.
on a side note..nations with a visible racist element in the stadia, need a brilliant black player :devil: nothing would change attitudes like if say...i doh know...maradona was black. Imagine a black man in that Argentine uniform running through that England squad in 86. What if Casillas was black? Or Torres. If Balotelli lives up to the hype and leads Italy to another WC win in a few years...yeah..I really feel some people eyse will open up. heheh. I know..dat is no real solution to the socail problem..and that is what it is..a serious social problem (as opposed to just a football prblem)..That is kinda just glossing over the issue. But it would help and does show how influential players are over any club president, politician etc. small theory..doh beat me up wid dat ;)
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Good video ... even though Anelka sound like a flower power child talking about only love in this game
However, I remember our own Shaka had gotten interviewed, as he was one of the main persons in the early days of promoting the anti-racism policies.
He said something to the tune that one day he was filling up his car at the gas station, and these kids started hurling vitriolic racist abuse at him. Then as they approached him, they realised who he was and immediately acted as though they had seen the Messiah.
good talk. he said they actually asked for his autograph when they make him out.
Eto'o says the same thing happens to him in Barcelona.
kicker is right. you need the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Raul, Casillas, etc look at the monkey chanters in Spain and just walk off the field..Until then, the message will have some power but not anywhere near the kinda power it could have. de fans have to see their national heros take a stance.
on a side note..nations with a visible racist element in the stadia, need a brilliant black player :devil: nothing would change attitudes like if say...i doh know...maradona was black. Imagine a black man in that Argentine uniform running through that England squad in 86. What if Casillas was black? Or Torres. If Balotelli lives up to the hype and leads Italy to another WC win in a few years...yeah..I really feel some people eyse will open up. heheh. I know..dat is no real solution to the socail problem..and that is what it is..a serious social problem (as opposed to just a football prblem)..That is kinda just glossing over the issue. But it would help and does show how influential players are over any club president, politician etc. small theory..doh beat me up wid dat ;)
senna black and IMHO was an important player in spain winning euro 2008.
if senna was not marshalling that midfield in front de defense like a general so, spain woulda be out in the 1st round as usually.
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Senna is undoubtedly important, but to say that he stands out is another. Spain needs a stand-out black player to have an impact, much like what Henry does for France, Rio for England etc.
The best hope we have in the modern game of that happening is African and Brasilian players adopting nations as their homes, and becoming stars on those respective teams. If teams in the old Eastern block had one Essien each on their team, you would see how quickly all that non-sense would stop.
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senna black and IMHO was an important player in spain winning euro 2008.
if senna was not marshalling that midfield in front de defense like a general so, spain woulda be out in the 1st round as usually.
two things:
1) Senna is not Spanish. No matter how long he plays for Spain, he will be considered a naturalized Brazilian. he may (or may not) even have an accent when he talks Spanish. This makes a difference. I believe there would be a different sensitivity, and level of ownership for a black player one who is born and bred there. There would still be some debate about roots, but no argument about nationality and cultural affiliation. So I disagree a little with acb..it probably means more when it is a player born, or at least raised there..speaks the local dialect naturally, has the local mannerisms, etc.
2) Senna does not play in a position that typically endears maximum fan and media adulation. You need players who stand out in a game..It is possible when you look at guys like Patrick Vierira, Makalele, Edgar Davids...but much easier when you're a forward, creative mid, or even a goalkeeper. People whose influence on games are more tangible and noticable..saves, goals, dribbling for example. And besides..I am speaking about a brilliant player..someone who you paying for your ticket to see. Dinho, Ronaldo, Messi etc.
Again..it would have to be an exceptional player who is 'larger than life'. Senna is not in this class.
Anyway..I think its pretty clear I'm only wondering aloud what kind of effect say..a Eusebio has on Portugal football fans idea of race. It's not a solution to the real problem, but might act as a catalyst for some serious change
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The Gillie Heron story
BBC Caribbean
Jamaican Gilbert 'Gillie' Heron, who died on November 27, 2008, aged 86 in Detroit, was the first black person to play professional football in the United States and Scotland.
Gillie Heron in action for many-time Scottish champions Celtic Football Club.
Signed by Celtic FC in 1951, Heron, a striker, scored a goal on his debut.
"Right now he is Scottish football's golden boy," said a newspaper of Heron, who was discovered by Celtic while on a US tour in 1951.
"Fifty thousand supporters hail him as the greatest thing seen at Celtic Park since goalposts."
Indeed, so beloved was Gillie Heron - whom Celtic fans called 'Black Flash' and 'Black Arrow' - Scottish singer, Michael Marra, in 2007, wrote a song in tribute to the Jamaican called The Flight of the Heron.
"He crossed the ocean to the other side/To play for Celtic with the
noble stride/The Arrow flew, he's flying yet/His aim was true so we don't forget."
And Celtic fans have not forgotten what one newspaper described as Gillie Heron's exceptional "ball control, magnificent headwork" and "camera-shutter speed".
Gillie was fast off field, too. A sharp dresser, Heron, according to writer Gerry Hassan, lit up dull, post-war Glasgow with his zoot suits, broad brimmed hats and colourful shoes in 1951.
"Here is a city about the size of Detroit," Heron told the Daily Record, comparing Glasgow to the American city his Jamaican family migrated to in 1939 when he was 17 years old. "It drops dead at 9:00 pm".
Still, for Heron, who had spent most of his football career at small clubs in the US, the chance to play for Celtic was a dream come true.
"Gee, I was tickled," Heron told a newspaper after arriving in Scotland from Detroit, where following a stint in the Canadian armed forces during the war he worked in an auto plant while playing football. "Glasgow Celtic was," Heron said, "the greatest name in football to me".
Before making a name for himself in Scotland, Gillie had made a name for himself in the United States playing for the US all-star team, for semi-pro teams like the Detroit Corinthians and for pro teams like the Detroit Wolverines.
In 1946, Gillie's team, the Wolverines, won the North American Professional Soccer League championship. The Jamaican - the only black player in US pro football at that time - was the league's top scorer with 29 goals. "He's smart" said Wolverines manager John McInness of Heron, "just like a cat".
In a 1947 profile, Ebony magazine described Heron as the 'Babe Ruth of soccer'.
"The ancient Old-World game of soccer boasts a New-World star," Ebony said.
Gilbert St Elmo Heron was a sporting renaissance man. He was a Golden Gloves welterweight boxing champion. He played pro cricket in Scotland and he was a top long jumper, high jumper and sprinter.
As a schoolboy in Jamaica, Gillie Heron defeated Herb McKenley, who would go on later to become a world record holder and an Olympic gold medallist.
In 1937, aged 15, Gillie Heron led St George's College to victory in the Manning Cup and the Olivier Shield. And in 1952, he played on the Jamaica Football Association XI against the Caribbean Combined XI at Sabina Park.
Gillie Heron was not the only one in his family, who hails from Manchester, to achieve sporting distinction. A cousin, 'Morty' Heron, was a well-known racehorse trainer and Gillie's brothers - Cecil and Gerald - played on the Michigan State University football team. In 1948, Cecil earned a place on the US Olympic team but could not participate because he was not yet a US citizen.
Cecil, who was also a tennis pro and a scuba diving instructor, helped popularise volleyball in Jamaica in the 1960s.
As for Gillie Heron, though he'd been a success in Jamaica, and in the US, his time in Scotland was brief. He stayed only a year at Celtic, playing only four first team games and scoring twice.
It's claimed the club felt Heron was not robust enough for the Scottish game and their tough tackles and rough play.
Heron was criticised in newspapers as "lacking resource when challenged", according to sports historian Phil Vasili.
Out of favour, Gillie Heron was demoted to Celtic's reserves. And though he scored 15 times in 15 matches for them, he left the club, which he called "the greatest name in football", a year after he first arrived there for the lowly Scottish side, Third Lanark.
In 1953, he moved to Kidderminster Harriers, a semi-professional club in England. He got off to a good start, scoring "a goal worthy of inclusion in any FA text book", a newspaper reported.
But in 1954, Gillie Heron returned home to Detroit. With a family to support, he took a job on the assembly line at the Ford Motor Car Company, staying 30 years. Any dreams he had of football as a career were over. The year he spent with Celtic was the best of his life.
Years later, Gillie wrote a poem, The Great Ones, about his time there.
"I'll remember all the great ones/Those that I have seen/Those that I have played with/Who wore the white and green."
There are several reasons why Gillie Heron's time at Celtic was so brief. He was too stylish a player for the rough and tough football played in Britain in the 1950s and aged 29 when he arrived at Celtic, he was probably past his best, anyway.
Americans sportswriter Frank Dell'apa believes Heron was unlucky to have been born when he was. Today Heron, whom he calls 'the forgotten pioneer of US soccer', would, he says, have had a long career at Celtic and then earned a good living playing in the North American Soccer League. Dell'apa also suggests Gillie Heron was hamstrung by racism.
Though the Jamaican was the top goal scorer in US pro football in 1946, he was paid only $25 a game compared with the $100 a game paid to white player Pete Matevich, who scored far fewer goals than did Heron.
Gayle Heron, who along with the singer Gil Scott-Heron, is one of
Gillie Heron's four children, said her father was not bitter he got such little recognition.
"He knows he was a pioneer," she says.
Still, Gillie 'Black Flash' Heron, the US' first black professional footballer, has not yet been inducted into the US National Soccer Hall of Fame.
Leslie Gordon Goffe, a correspondent for BBC's Caribbean Service, is completing a book on Gillie Heron and Gil Scott-Heron called, Pieces of a Man.
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Very interesting read...I've always known of Gil-Scott Heron, but never of his father. Thanks for posting this.
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blessings to the family
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Major Incidents of Racism in Football
I remember when Yorke ress up the man at Birmingham City for making monkey chants at him .... but maybe that was more than 5 years ago. Check this list out from the last 5 years. I don't recall the two incidents with these Trinis, but it's still shocking!!
Major racist incidents in European soccer
By The Associated Press
A list of some of the major incidents of racism in soccer throughout Europe over the last five years.
April 2004: Former Manchester United coach Ron Atkinson resigns from television channel ITV after being caught making a racist comment on the air about Chelseas Marcel Desailly, who is black. Atkinson, who thought his microphone was off, also quits his job as a columnist for The Guardian newspaper.
November 2004: Black English players Shaun Wright-Phillips and Ashley Cole are abused by monkey chants when Spain hosts England in an exhibition game in Madrid. Spain coach Luis Aragones is also caught on camera racially abusing Arsenal forward Thierry Henry in a bid to motivate Jose Antonio Reyes, Henrys Arsenal teammate at the time.
January 2005: As part of an anti-racism initiative in the French league, Paris Saint-Germains players wear all-white jerseys and Lens players wear all-black during a French league match at Parc des Princes in Paris. The move backfires as racist elements among PSGs crowd in the Kop of Boulogne sing Come on the whites. The racist overtone is backed up with monkey chants from the Boulogne crowd when Lens players touch the ball. France midfielder Patrick Vieira, present in the crowd that night, vows not to set foot in Parc des Princes again.
February 2005: Barcelona forward Samuel Etoo is racially abused at a match in Zaragoza, where fans make monkey chants and throw peanuts onto the pitch when the Cameroon star gets the ball. Referee Fernando Carmona Mendez makes no mention of the incidents in his match report.
November 2005: Ivory Coast defender Marc Zoro, then playing for Italian team Messina in Serie A, is abused by Inter Milan fans with monkey chants. He attempts to stop the match by walking off with the ball. All matches the following week in Italy are delayed by five minutes as part of an anti-racism initiative in reaction to the abuse aimed at Zoro.
February 2006: Etoo is racially abused again at Zaragoza and threatens to walk off the field, with only a desperate intervention by Barcelona coach Frank Rijkaard stopping him. Footage of the match shows Etoo saying No mas (No more) as he walks toward the sidelines.
March 2006: In a match between Sachsen Leipzig and Hallescher FC, Leipzigs Nigerian midfielder Adebowale Ogungbure is spat at and racially abused by opposition fans. In retaliation, Ogungbure places two fingers above his mouth and salutes the crowd, a reference to Adolf Hitler. Ogungbure is arrested by German police, because it is illegal to make Nazi gestures for political or abusive purposes, but criminal proceedings against him are dropped soon after.
October 2006: In Serbia, 37 Borac Cacak fans are arrested and eight face criminal charges after racially abusing the clubs Zimbabwean player Mike Temwanjira during a first division match. Several days later, 152 supporters of first division side Rad Belgrade are detained after shouting anti-Muslim slogans during a match against their Novi Pazar rivals. In 2007, UEFA fines the Serbian Football Association for racial insults by fans aimed at black players during the under-21 European championship match against England played in the Netherlands.
November 2006: PSG fan Julien Quemener is shot and killed by off-duty police officer Antoine Granomort, who is protecting a Jewish fan under attack from a large PSG hate mob after a UEFA Cup match against Israels Hapoel Tel Aviv.
February 2007: St. Johnstone forward Jason Scotland is racially abused by fans of Scottish club Motherwell. The offenders are promptly reprimanded by the spectators around them, then reported to police and match stewards. Motherwell chairman John Boyle issues an apology on behalf of the club.
March 2007: In a match between Lithuania and France, Lithuania fans unfurl a racist banner directed against Frances many black players, and representing a map of Africa, painted with the French flag colors and a slogan saying Welcome to Europe.
April 2007: Gillingham goalkeeper Kelvin Jack is racially abused by a Rotherham fan, who is banned for life by the club.
August 2007: Borussia Dortmund goalkeeper Roman Weidenfeller is investigated by the German FA for allegedly calling forward Gerald Asamoah a black pig.
August 2007: Midfielder DaMarcus Beasley, a black American from Indiana, was taunted by fans who made monkey chants after he scored his first goal for Glasgow Rangers in a Champions League qualifier at FK Zeta in Bijelo Polje, Montenegro.
September 2007: After replacing Jose Mourinho as Chelsea manager, Israeli Avram Grant is the subject of death threats, hate mail and anti-Semitic chants. Grants father was a Polish survivor of the Holocaust.
September 2007: Libournes Burkina Faso player Boubacar Kebe is ejected by the match referee for reacting to racial abuse from Bastia fans. The Kebe affair eventually leads to Bastia being docked pointsa rarity.
February 2008: Morocco defender Abdeslam Ouaddou of Valenciennes climbs into the stands at Metz to confront a fan racially abusing him. The match referee shows Ouaddou a yellow card for unsportsmanlike behavior. The French soccer league (LFP) calls for harsher sanctions against racism.
April and May 2008: PSG fans racially abuse black passers by and attack an Arab man at a Paris metro station before both the League Cup final against Lens and the French Cup final against Lyon. Despite a police presence, there are no interventions.
March 2008: Ghanaian player Solomon Opoku is attacked by Serbian fans of his team, Borac Cacak, when returning from a match. A Serbian court sentences four of the aggressors to a total of four and a half years imprisonment for the racially motivated attack.
March 2008: Olympique Marseille players Ronald Zubar, Taye Taiwo and Mamadou Niang, all black, are abused by Russian fans of Zenit St. Petersburg who throw bananas on the pitch and make monkey chants. Marseille reports the incidents to UEFA, European soccers governing body, which fines Zenit $58,000. Zenit goes on to win the UEFA Cup.
September 2008: Portsmouth defender Sol Campbell, who is black, is abused by Tottenham supporters, whose insults include the image of Campbell hanging from a tree. In January, four of the fans involved are banned from attending soccer matches for three years after pleading guilty to indecent chanting.
November 2008: Playing for Middlesbrough against Newcastle, the Egyptian forward Mido is subjected to Islamophobic chanting from a small number of Newcastle fans. Mido had been subjected to similar chants the previous year, again from Newcastle fans.
January 2009: Spains soccer federation fines Real Madrid about $3,900 after a group of fans makes fascist gestures and chants fascist slogans at a match. Match referee Alfonso Perez Burrull cites extremist or radical symbolism, and chants making reference to the gas chamber.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AiOWXNn0wP2HYVvQ0Pf3yY4mw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsoccerii&prov=ap&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=AiOWXNn0wP2HYVvQ0Pf3yY4mw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsoccerii&prov=ap&type=lgns)
How England tackled football racism
By JEROME PUGMIRE, AP Sports Writer
PARIS (AP)About 20 years ago, English soccer was decimated by fan violence, in and outside of stadiums.
Now as England prepares to play Spain in an exhibition game on Wednesday, its top league is regarded as the wealthiest and best-marketed in the world, and the Spanish are under scrutiny for racism.
English authorities have mostly eliminated taunts and racial epithets from stadiums, refused entry to known troublemakers and done away with overcrowding by insisting on all-seat grounds.
Anti-racism activists say Spain has one of the bigger problems on the continent. Because Englands players endured racial taunts in Madrid in 2004, the location of this match was switched from Madrid to Sevilla.
The problem lingers.
Real Madrids radical fans, the Ultra Sur, made fascist gestures and shouted extremist slogans during a match against Osasuna on Jan. 18. In his match report, referee Alfonso Perez Burrull cited extremist or radical symbolism, and chants that made reference to the gas chamber, death to Osasuna and loyalty to fascism.
Three days later, Spains soccer federation fined Real Madrid 3,000 euros ($3,900).
In August, Spains national basketball team defended an ad campaign in which it posed with its eyes slanted to mimmic Chinese people as part of a Beijing Games campaign.
Racism hit Formula One racing last year, when Lewis Hamilton, who is black, endured racial slurs at F1 testing in Barcelona. Spanish fans wore black face-paint and held up banners saying Hamilton Family at the Montmelo circuit.
Javier Martinez, a spokesman for Anti-Racism in Madrid, thinks Spain is in denial.
There is a level of racism in society because, in some ways, its socially accepted, Martinez said. Its used in a humoristic or comic form and is tolerated and accepted.
Simon Kuper, author of Football Against the Enemy, compares Spain now to England of the 1980s. The racist jokes stopped in England, Kuper says, because the general public had enough of them.
There was a social mood, society was no longer accepting that stuff in England, Kuper said. Football doesnt tend to take the lead, but by the 90s it was no longer that acceptable in Britain anymore to make racist jokes.
England started tackling its problems after two triggering events. The first was when Liverpool fans rioted in Brussels Heysel Stadium before the 1985 European Cup final against Juventus, and 39 spectators died as a wall collapsed on them. The second occurred four years later, when 96 Liverpool fans were crushed to death on the overcrowded terraces at Sheffield Wednesdays Hillsborough Stadium at an English FA Cup semifinal game between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.
Along with the Taylor Report, which recommended that standing sections be eliminated by 1994, came a new attitude that insults and racial abuse would not be tolerated.
We got the ball rolling, former Crystal Palace forward Mark Bright, who is black, said in a recent telephone interview.
Bright, who also played for Sheffield Wednesday and Charlton, recalled how nasty the atmosphere used to be in England.
(Racism) was at most grounds. When I started at Port Vale in 84-85, you used to get abuse off your opponents, the opponents bench, and the crowd because there was (only) a handful (of black players) sprinkled throughout the league, Bright said.
By the mid-1990s, the Professional Footballers Association backed anti-racism campaigns such as Kick It Out, in conjunction with the Commission for Racial Equality, and Show Racism the Red Card.
Bright, who is black, credits PFA chief executive Gordon Taylor as instrumental in turning the tide by grasping the nettle and saying You know what, weve got to do something about this.
Established in 1996, Show Racism the Red Card has harnessed the high profile of professional playerssuch as Manchester United captain Rio Ferdinandto combat racism. Through films, workshops, posters and DVDs, SRTRC sends out an anti-racism message at soccer grounds and schools across England, Scotland and Wales.
This campaign is one of the leading campaigns in trying to stamp (racism) out of the game, Ferdinand said. Drumming it home to the kids, that any type of racism isnt needed. In school, anywhere, in any workplace. We are definitely on the right track, but I still think there is a long way to go.
Bright said the Kick It Out campaign gained momentum slowly but made a major impact on the psyche of football fans. Taylor phoned several leading black players in the game, including Bright, Paul Ince and Ian Wright and said, Youre in the Premier League. Im asking for your help, according to Bright.
The British press also played a role in swaying opinions, showing up at anti-racism campaigns and writing at length about what they had seen and heard.
Without them you cant do anything. The press are the vehicle, to say out loud, You cannot abuse black players; you cannot abuse someone because of their color, Bright said.
To be sure, England is not perfect. Two cases this season cast a spotlight on racism: Egyptian forward Mido was taunted with Islamaphobic chants during Middlesbroughs match against Newcastle, and Tottenham fans insulted Portsmouth defender Sol Campbell, who is black, in September. Yet the incidents prompted outrage partly because they represented a relapse by English fans. Eleven Tottenham fans were criminally charged with indecent chantingfour pleaded guilty last month and received three-year stadium bans.
In Germany and Austria, clubs and fans have struck blows against racism. During Werder Bremens match in November at Bochum in the Ruhr, a small group of visiting fans unveiled a Third Reich flag, prompting other Bremen fans to chant Nazis out! Eight fans were detained and banned by Werder Bremen from attending home matches, and the club was examining whether a nationwide ban could be implemented.
As the most popular club in Austria, Rapid Vienna was a recruiting ground for the neo-Nazis in the 1980s and into the 90s, with a prominent far-right following numbering some 500 people. Black players were regularly abused.
Things are different now.
Several clubs introduced anti-racism measures ranging from awareness days, action days and ranging to a policy of equality when it comes to staff recruitment, said Kurt Wachter, a Vienna-based coordinator for Football Against Racism in Europe. The people who work in the stadium are relating to ethnic minorities in the community. You can see them and they feel accepted.
Wachter fears countries like Spain and Italy are lagging way behind.
That is a big challenge because a lot of football grounds are predominantly white in most parts of Europe, Wachter added. In Italy or Spain, some of them have not even come beyond the first step which is to accept there is a problem.
Associated Press Writers Andrew Dampf in Rome, Paul Logothetis in Madrid and Dheepthi Namasivayam in Paris contributed to this report.
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Spain's bid being hijacked, or is karma finally catching up with them?
http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Aj2_uHNKGw5Th8Bp7kYQzDkmw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsocceriii&prov=ap&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news;_ylt=Aj2_uHNKGw5Th8Bp7kYQzDkmw7YF?slug=ap-racisminsocceriii&prov=ap&type=lgns)
Racism troubles Madrids Olympic-World Cup bids
By Paul Logothetis, AP Sports Writer
MADRID (AP)Spain is a serious contender to host the 2016 Olympics and 2018 World Cup, but a failure to clamp down on fans racist and extremist behavior could end up compromising both bids.
Buoyed by Rafael Nadals Grand Slam tennis wins, the national soccer teams European Championship triumph and Alberto Contadors sweep of cyclings three premier events, Spain is in a golden age of sports.
It would seem the perfect time to land the two biggest sporting spectacles on earth.
But scenes of offensive fan behavior still tarnish the countrys image, an issue that came to the fore when spectators at the Santiago Bernabeu stadium greeted Englands black soccer players with monkey chants during an international exhibition game in 2004.
And the problem extends to sports such as Formula One, where fans dont known when to differentiate between competitive spirit and racism.
In Spain, there is a profound problem and the fight against racism hasnt been taken seriously. The problem is a lack of education and sensibility when it comes to tackling racism, Esteban Ibarra, head of the Movement Against Intolerance, told The Associated Press.
The public would react positively to a campaign, but there is a real lack of political push in this fight.
Spains exhibition game against England on Wednesdaythe teams first meeting since the events in the Spanish capital in November 2004comes at a crucial time.
Its a day before Madrid submits its documents to the International Olympic Committee outlining its bid plans for the 2016 Games, and a little over a week after Spain confirmed its joint bid with Portugal for the 2018 World Cup.
Its going to be a great test to see if weve overcome that episode or if were just continuing on with this problem, said Ibarra, who has been charting racial incidents for 20 years.
Monkey chants still rain down on players across the country, with Barcelona striker Samuel Etoo of Cameroon nearly quitting a game at Zaragoza in February 2006 because of the abuse.
When I first experienced it, I didnt even hear it. It was reporters that brought it to my attention, said Julian De Guzman, a Canadian of Filipino-Jamaican heritage who plays for Deportivo La Coruna. Then I was watching (a replay of) the game and I was like Wow. It was pretty surprising and kind of disappointing.
The fines are never enough. Their just a slap of the hand and theyre back at it again. It doesnt really do anything.
Last month, Real Madrid was fined 3,000 euros ($3,900) after some fans displayed fascist banners, made gestures and chanted slogans with reference to the death of their opponents and the gas chamber.
The Spanish soccer federation said fines correspond to current laws, but preferred not to discuss the issue at length.
In Spain, we take all preventive measures possible to fight racism, spokesman Jorge Carretero said. I dont see any type of problem with racism in Spanish football. The same problems exist in England, in Germany, in France, and elsewhere.
Spains bid with Portugal for the 2018 World Cup is up against competition from England, the United States, Russia, Japan, Australia and Netherlands-Belgium, among others. The host will be selected by FIFA in December 2010.
There is no place in football for corruption and racism, FIFA said in a statement sent to the AP. Football, given its global reach, power and influence has a duty to act in a responsible and progressive manner.
Spanish Olympic Committee president Alejandro Blanco doesnt believe recent events will bear any influence on Madrids chances of hosting the 2016 Games, with Tokyo, Chicago and Rio de Janeiro also in the race. The IOC will choose the host city on Oct. 2.
These things can happen in any stadium in any country in the world, from Brazil to Italy to anywhere, Blanco said. Its too easy to just say that Spain is a racist country, when it is not.
The Spanish government passed a law against racism in sport in July 2007 in a bid to clamp down on the behavior, but experts say that it is not being used. Clubs can be fined up to $842,000 and deducted points, places and even relegated for serious incidents, but its up to the league to enforce such punishments.
Yet extremist supporters, usually with far-right leanings and known as ultras, are still allowed into the stadiums. They have infiltrated all levels of Spanish soccerfrom local leagues to the topflight gameand have a fundamental influence in promoting xenophobia in society, Ibarra said.
I think football fans have a clearer idea that they must turn their backs on the ultras. There is a rejection, but the ultra groups continue to be aided, receiving favorable attention from the clubs. The clubs need to stop supporting these groups.
Last month, several players from a regional third-division team made up of Barcelona ultras were accused of assaulting members of an opposing team comprised solely of foreigners, mostly from South America, with several sent to the hospital with injuries.
In Europe, Britain and Germany have been leaders in expelling extremist groups from their grounds.
In Spain, only Barcelona has made an effort, while clubs like Madridvoted FIFAs top club of the 20th centuryhave publicly endorsed extremists.
Concerning the (ultras) I have nothing but good things to say, former Madrid president Ramon Calderon has said.
A construction and tourism boom in Spain over the past decade has fueled immigration and the sudden wave of foreigners has led to a rise in xenophobia, which has spread out from the cities to villages.
The Internet has allowed radical groups to form better bonds domestically and internationally, and there are now at least 150 Web sites in Spain to lend their voice.
Before 2000 you would walk down the street and be looking around and see no color, said Joan Lino, a Cuban long jumper who moved to Spain and won bronze for the country at the 2004 Athens Olympics.
Lino, is one of three Dominicans on the team involved in Everyone Olympians, which is sponsored by Madrids 2016 bid committee and aims to educate young people about the values of the Olympic spirit.
Integration has always been complicated, but the Spanish are not racist, Lino said. They just havent had much immigration until now, so its a matter of coping with change. If you dont have something, its usual to initially reject it. Racism is too strong a word for it.
Spains Socialist government promised to pass a more wide-ranging and general law related to racism in society after winning last years election, but has yet to act. Spains Interior Ministry does not keep any record of racist acts.
The Spanish medias close links to soccer clubs has also kept it from opening the debate.
Then-Spain coach Luis Aragones racist jibe in 2004 against France striker Thierry Henry to motivate one of his players was treated with humor, which set the tone for the abuse of England players in the ensuing match.
In August, Spains silver-medal winning Olympic basketball team was photographed in an ad using their fingers to apparently make their eyes look more Asians.
Last year, F1 champion Lewis Hamilton, the sports first black champion, was the target of racist abuse by a Spanish Web site nine months after a group of people wore dark face paint and T-shirts with the slogan Hamiltons Family at testing near Barcelona.
Hamilton continues to be a target for many Spaniards who believe the British driver derailed Fernando Alonsos championship hopes at McLaren.
De Guzman, the Deportivo La Coruna player, said he looks at the abuse as just a way for fans to try to knock a player off his game.
At the end of the day, he said, these guys making the monkey chants, they also have dark-skinned players on their side.
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ROME, April 21 (Reuters) - UEFA wants matches to be halted if fans make racist chants, the European governing body’s president Michel Platini said on Tuesday.
Juventus were ordered to play their next home league game behind closed doors on Monday after fans racially abused Inter Milan striker Mario Balotelli in Saturday’s 1-1 Serie A draw.ADVERTISEMENT
“We will call for play to be stopped for 10 minutes when these things happen and announcements to be made in the stadium,” Platini told a news conference in Rome. “If it continues the match will be stopped. Courage is needed when there is racism in the stands. That’s UEFA’s mission.”
Racist abuse is not uncommon in Italian soccer and small fines are usually handed out. However, the seriousness of Saturday’s incidents prompted the authorities to come down heavily on Juve.
“It is a difficult moment for the Italian soccer federation. It has taken its responsibility,” added ex-Juve player Platini.
Italian federation president Giancarlo Abete, who hopes to bring Euro 2016 to the country, told reporters that rules would be changed to allow games to be stopped because of racist chanting.
“The Italian system already gives the authorities the power to suspend the game in the case of banners that incite racial discrimination,” he said.
“We’ll reinforce this, naturally while staying attentive and finding a balance for the security requirements of the public.”
JUVE APPEALING
The 18-year-old Balotelli scored Inter’s opener in the top-of-the-table clash and was subjected to chants of “a black Italian does not exist” from sections of the crowd in Turin.
Balotelli, an Italy under-21 international, was born in Palermo but is of Ghanaian descent.
Juve apologised but are appealing against the decision to ban fans from the home game with Lecce on May 3.
Inter Milan president Massimo Moratti said he would have pulled his team off if he had been at Turin’s Stadio Olimpico.
He has been criticised for his response by Italian media given that Inter were at the centre of a racism storm in 2005 when Messina player Marco Zoro was verbally abused by fans.
Platini was in Rome to hand the Champions League trophy to the city ahead of the final here on May 27. UEFA has stuck with its decision to host the final in Rome despite Italian soccer’s problems with racism and hooliganism.
The UEFA president said a number of children from the central Italian region of Abruzzo, hit by a large earthquake earlier this month, would be given free tickets to the final. (Writing by Mark Meadows in Milan;
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Not much detail given but it seems like this could potentially allow fans of a losing team to stop a game, in order to break the momentum or even avoid the losing result just by striking up a racist chant.
I'm all for big measures to end racism in the stadia, but this one seems to give too much power to the perpetrators.
At some point the governing bodies need to just concede that racism is not a football problem per se. It's bigger than that, and as a result unfortunately spills into the games. The way to address the issue is therefore alot more long-term and gradual. As a global entity governing a culturally diverse game, if they really care about racism as a problem they probably need to invest heavily in educational diversity programs and tolerance initiatives that target changing the way the people think...in the hopes of long term improvements. Merely attempting to keep racism out of the stadia with patch work initiatives like the one described here doesn't do much to address the underlying issue....................(of course keeping racism out of the games may be UEFA/FIFA's only intention- as opposed to addressing the problem of racism/disrespect.... I don't know.)
In the mean time football will have to endure the growing pains and possibly continue to apply stop gap measures that include heavier fines and bans as a stronger deterrant than what currently exists.
But giving the fans more power to negatively influence the enjoyability and even outcome of the game is not the way to go in my opinion.
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a black Italian does not exist Dey come back with dem shit. Tell dem racist Italians to haul dey MC.
(http://www.missitalia.rai.it/leMiss/alboMissItalia1990_1999/mendez96_b.jpg)
(http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/56648219.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A6F9EAE2F9D1CC8AD7A245704FE6840619)
http://www.tpmum.com/denny.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_M%C3%A9ndez
"but she did not score well in the next interview round to become the top 3." Dat is because she made a strong bold comment pointedly directed at de Italian people who didn't like her skin colour.
Put dis in dey craw.
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“a black Italian does not exist”
they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?
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Not much detail given but it seems like this could potentially allow fans of a losing team to stop a game, in order to break the momentum or even avoid the losing result just by striking up a racist chant.
I'm all for big measures to end racism in the stadia, but this one seems to give too much power to the perpetrators.
At some point the governing bodies need to just concede that racism is not a football problem per se. It's bigger than that, and as a result unfortunately spills into the games. The way to address the issue is therefore alot more long-term and gradual. As a global entity governing a culturally diverse game, if they really care about racism as a problem they probably need to invest heavily in educational diversity programs and tolerance initiatives that target changing the way the people think...in the hopes of long term improvements. Merely attempting to keep racism out of the stadia with patch work initiatives like the one described here doesn't do much to address the underlying issue....................(of course keeping racism out of the games may be UEFA/FIFA's only intention- as opposed to addressing the problem of racism/disrespect.... I don't know.)
In the mean time football will have to endure the growing pains and possibly continue to apply stop gap measures that include heavier fines and bans as a stronger deterrant than what currently exists.
But giving the fans more power to negatively influence the enjoyability and even outcome of the game is not the way to go in my opinion.
Presumably the team whose fans cause the stoppage will lose by default. I think its a great idea. Let the referee and 4th official use their discretion, and send the video for review once the game done. Order the team responsible to reimburse any expenses to the other team. Watch how quickly clubs and non-racist fans act to stamp out the rogue elements.
I disagree that football cannot deal with racism separately from the society at large. Football does not need to eradicate racism...football needs to ensure that all players and fans are treated with respect. The latter should definitely be achievable. Just because someone has racist feelings does not mean that they cant keep their mouth shut and just watch the football for 90 minutes...leave the government to worry about solving the wider societal problems.
PS - that Miss Italy was bess :beermug:
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let dem play ah man down everytime it occur...
crowd bong to behave
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a black Italian does not exist
they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?
well..funny you should say that. I remember reading something about Maradona's life and he recalled that when he first moved to Napoli he was shocked how badly people from the South were treated by people in the North. He had expected it, but he was amazed at how at one of his early games against some Northern team, some fans unfurled a huge banner saying 'Welcome to Italy'...
I've also played against some guys from Italy who were from Naples. I had gotten into a running argument with one of their players and one of the guys on their team tried to diffuse the situation saying something like - here we are different, but in Italy, we are just like you. I wasn't sure what he meant at the time, but an Argentine teammate of mine explained to me that he meant he was practically a 'black' man in Italy. Of course...they don't consider themselves black and I doubt they any more or less racist on average than the average northern italian...but they definitely feel marginalized
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a black Italian does not exist
they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?
well..funny you should say that. I remember reading something about Maradona's life and he recalled that when he first moved to Napoli he was shocked how badly people from the South were treated by people in the North. He had expected it, but he was amazed at how at one of his early games against some Northern team, some fans unfurled a huge banner saying 'Welcome to Italy'...
I've also played against some guys from Italy who were from Naples. I had gotten into a running argument with one of their players and one of the guys on their team tried to diffuse the situation saying something like - here we are different, but in Italy, we are just like you. I wasn't sure what he meant at the time, but an Argentine teammate of mine explained to me that he meant he was practically a 'black' man in Italy. Of course...they don't consider themselves black and I doubt they any more or less racist on average than the average northern italian...but they definitely feel marginalized
i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.
In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.
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i thought the lowest rung in italian or any other european society was the roma or gypsies.
since they originate in india they really black.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7619703.stm
"Italy criticised
An Italian move to fingerprint Roma - already condemned by the European Parliament and human rights groups as discriminatory - came under fire again.
George Soros, founder of the Open Society Institute, said it was "a case of ethnic profiling which ought to be illegal," the Associated Press reported.
Italy's right-wing government introduced the fingerprinting measure, saying it would cut crime and push Roma children to attend school instead of begging.
An estimated 150,000 Roma live in Italy, mainly in squalid, makeshift camps on the outskirts of major cities."
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... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...
nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.
No wonder than all we southies consider ourselves mentally superior and better cultured as opposed to our unforunate northern counterparts.
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a black Italian does not exist
they mustbe never watch some of their countrymen living down south in sicily. maybe they "brown"?
well..funny you should say that. I remember reading something about Maradona's life and he recalled that when he first moved to Napoli he was shocked how badly people from the South were treated by people in the North. He had expected it, but he was amazed at how at one of his early games against some Northern team, some fans unfurled a huge banner saying 'Welcome to Italy'...
I've also played against some guys from Italy who were from Naples. I had gotten into a running argument with one of their players and one of the guys on their team tried to diffuse the situation saying something like - here we are different, but in Italy, we are just like you. I wasn't sure what he meant at the time, but an Argentine teammate of mine explained to me that he meant he was practically a 'black' man in Italy. Of course...they don't consider themselves black and I doubt they any more or less racist on average than the average northern italian...but they definitely feel marginalized
i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.
In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.
oh gosh. come on. that is completely understood. it is different kind of bigotry but make no mistake..it's nothing like North /South T&T sentiments, and yeah, they are sometimes called blacks and the bigotry does include references to southerners having darker skin and darker features. but i never meant to infer that they are considered the same as people of african descent. the part in bold..i included that to make the same point u making..it ain't the same.also why i used quotes when mentioning the word 'black'. just sharing a personal story that Andre reminded me of when he spoke about 'brown' sicilians.
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... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...
nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.
No wonder than all we southies consider ourselves mentally superior and better cultured as opposed to our unforunate northern counterparts.
see wha ah talkin bout
here we go :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
in a few years from now who knows HOW intense this sentiment will be and what it will lead to ;)
:rotfl: :beermug: :beermug:
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... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...
nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.
No wonder than all we southies consider ourselves mentally superior and better cultured as opposed to our unforunate northern counterparts.
see wha ah talkin bout
here we go :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:
in a few years from now who knows HOW intense this sentiment will be and what it will lead to ;)
:rotfl: :beermug: :beermug:
lol. We will keep the oil in the south.
Allyuh keep Movietown, Zen and 51.
let we see who will win.
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ya sure allya doh want Zen :devil:
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we go arkse Johnny to open back up The Club before we take Zen.
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i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.
In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.
This is incorrect... it isn't 'racism' since they all belong to the same race, but make no mistake about it it is colorism borne from the fact that people from southern Italy (particularly the Sicilians) tend to be darker-skinned in comparison to those from the northern part of the boot. This could be attributed to the meditteranean climate, but from a historical perspective one only needs to look at the proximity to Africa across the Mediterranean to realize that much as the Moors mixed with the people of the southern Iberian peninsula (Portugal and Spain), they likely also mixed with the Sicilians as well... in fact Sicilians are often thought of as Italy's (blacks)... not using the actual term.
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... its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ...
nice analogy.
I wonder if people prior to the lighthouse consider themselves bigots.
I do ;D
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i think there's a difference...the north/south thing in Italy is not racism, its just regional bigotry. same like how south trinidad is $h!t compared to north trinidad ;) it is not really to do with how tanned they are.
In the italian cities I've visited, the (real) black italians (the few that exist) occupy the lowest rung in italian society...in Italy you see no middle class black people...they all seem to be african street vendors and are generally ignored. Its a very weird experience.
This is incorrect... it isn't 'racism' since they all belong to the same race, but make no mistake about it it is colorism borne from the fact that people from southern Italy (particularly the Sicilians) tend to be darker-skinned in comparison to those from the northern part of the boot. This could be attributed to the meditteranean climate, but from a historical perspective one only needs to look at the proximity to Africa across the Mediterranean to realize that much as the Moors mixed with the people of the southern Iberian peninsula (Portugal and Spain), they likely also mixed with the Sicilians as well... in fact Sicilians are often thought of as Italy's (blacks)... not using the actual term.
Its not incorrect...they are discriminated against primarily because they are considered to be poor and crass...skin colour is less of a factor (no need for a historical lesson on why southern italians are more tanned than northern italians). In Britain, Scots are "discriminated" against because they are paler and have ginger hair. It might not be PC, but it isnt anywhere near as offensive as real racism.
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In Britain, Scots are "discriminated" against because they are paler and have ginger hair. It might not be PC, but it isnt anywhere near as offensive as real racism.
dais because de Scots TOO damn CHEAP Thrifty :devil:
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ah waiting for ahmadinejad to throw he 2 cents.
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ah waiting for ahmadinejad to throw he 2 cents.
Ain't no talk of jews in this thread... so he probably won't be concerned
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Black marks for Clarence Seedorf and Jose Mourinho in fight to end racism
Viewed from afar, its all so simple. Nine days ago, when Juventus hosted Inter Milan, a sizeable portion of the home crowd audible to any television viewer began abusing Mario Balotelli, the visiting teams striker, calling him a s****y n****r. Given that Balotelli is black, it was a clear case of racist abuse, correct?
So why did Clarence Seedorf, one of Serie As most high-profile black footballers, and Jos Mourinho, Balotellis coach, reject that it was racist? Welcome to a story about black and white that seems filled with shades of grey.
(continue) (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/gabriele_marcotti/article6175825.ece)
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hmm interesting
"Absurd? Maybe, but not to Seedorf. You have to stop calling this racism, because it isnt racist, he said. Its the same kind of abuse that other, nonblack players get when fans sing about their mothers. The fact is that certain players stand out because of their behaviour on the pitch. Balotelli needs to understand that if he continues to behave this way he will continue to elicit similar reactions everywhere he goes.
Mourinhos reaction also raised eyebrows, not least because many expect the Special One always to defend his players and get any edge he can. The abuse was childish and ignorant but it wasnt racist, he said. Its not as if they were abusing him because Balotelli is of African descent. They were abusing him because hes an opponent, and a very talented one at that, one whose skill had just led to a Juve player getting sent off.
Neither Seedorfs nor Mourinhos words will help in the battle to eradicate racist abuse. But they are right in making a distinction between racism and racist abuse. You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "
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You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]
Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.
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You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]
Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.
Cosign
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From the comments section following the article:
Seedorf and Mourinho, have a limited understanding of racism!!!
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I wonder if Mourinho woulda have the same sentiments if he was black and the victim of such abuse ?
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Pigment of we imagination? :thinking:
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You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]
Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.
The second piece is just noise. It's a tactic meant to cloud the point. Reminds me of common tactic referred to as rationalization after the fact but I don't want to digress- Point is- other manifestations of racism are irrelevant to the one under scrutiny....
...and while it is possible to be a non-racist and call someone the N-word....out of anger, spite, or as a fear/distraction tactic whilst not actually harbouring any racial prejudice against the person, the fact remains that calling someone the N-word is a racist act regardless of whether or not the perpetrator is in fact a racist person. And that is where the confusion in the whole Balotelli debate lies...because no one wants to look at themselves and admit to being racist, so as soon as the label is drawn, people are quick to rationalize their act and explain the ulterior motive for their behavior in order abscond themselves from the label.....
but the thing is, in this case the label is not important..... with regard to Balotelli the concern isn't (or shouldn't be) identifying racist people in the stadium...but rather perpetrators of racist acts.....and in this case the way the message was communicated, displayed and perhaps ultimately received by the intended target significantly outweighs the "stated" intention behind it...
If the Ultras were really not racist, and they figure that their message may have been "misunderstood" they should just apologize....
Mourinho is trying to be a diplomat, and Seedorf is a politician... or vice versa ;D
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You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]
Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.
The second piece is just noise. It's a tactic meant to cloud the point. Reminds me of common tactic referred to as rationalization after the fact but I don't want to digress- Point is- other manifestations of racism are irrelevant to the one under scrutiny....
...and while it is possible to be a non-racist and call someone the N-word....out of anger, spite, or as a fear/distraction tactic whilst not actually harbouring any racial prejudice against the person, the fact remains that calling someone the N-word is a racist act regardless of whether or not the perpetrator is in fact a racist person. And that is where the confusion in the whole Balotelli debate lies...because no one wants to look at themselves and admit to being racist, so as soon as the label is drawn, people are quick to rationalize their act and explain the ulterior motive for their behavior in order abscond themselves from the label.....
but the thing is, in this case the label is not important..... with regard to Balotelli the concern isn't (or shouldn't be) identifying racist people in the stadium...but rather perpetrators of racist acts.....and in this case the way the message was communicated, displayed and perhaps ultimately received by the intended target significantly outweighs the "stated" intention behind it...
If the Ultras were really not racist, and they figure that their message may have been "misunderstood" they should just apologize....
Mourinho is trying to be a diplomat, and Seedorf is a politician.
:applause:
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You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]
Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.
The second piece is just noise. It's a tactic meant to cloud the point. Reminds me of common tactic referred to as rationalization after the fact but I don't want to digress- Point is- other manifestations of racism are irrelevant to the one under scrutiny....
...and while it is possible to be a non-racist and call someone the N-word....out of anger, spite, or as a fear/distraction tactic whilst not actually harbouring any racial prejudice against the person, the fact remains that calling someone the N-word is a racist act regardless of whether or not the perpetrator is in fact a racist person. And that is where the confusion in the whole Balotelli debate lies...because no one wants to look at themselves and admit to being racist, so as soon as the label is drawn, people are quick to rationalize their act and explain the ulterior motive for their behavior in order abscond themselves from the label.....
but the thing is, in this case the label is not important..... with regard to Balotelli the concern isn't (or shouldn't be) identifying racist people in the stadium...but rather perpetrators of racist acts.....and in this case the way the message was communicated, displayed and perhaps ultimately received by the intended target significantly outweighs the "stated" intention behind it...
If the Ultras were really not racist, and they figure that their message may have been "misunderstood" they should just apologize....
Mourinho is trying to be a diplomat, and Seedorf is a politician... or vice versa ;D
Excellently put Kicker...however, I'll venture to say that calling anyone of any race by a derogatory term in any way other than that both parties understand that it is being done in jest is both racist and a racist act.
Emotion tends to reveal the true nature of a man and his thoughts. Thats just how it is.
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But they are right in making a distinction between racism and racist abuse. You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race.
Lol@ this^^ bullshit.
I won't even bother dignify it with analysis.
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Ok u can cuss a black man bout he modder but call him a monkey a crime has been committed. In both cases not acceptable behavior. D fact dat black peeps call black peeps d n word show how their lack of history. No way d n word is a term of luv and respect no matter who say it.
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Ok u can cuss a black man bout he modder but call him a monkey a crime has been committed. In both cases not acceptable behavior. D fact dat black peeps call black peeps d n word show how their lack of history. No way d n word is a term of luv and respect no matter who say it.
dais is whole nother issue yuh raise dey weary....but as ah man living foreign for ah 'minute', i realize dat even blacks who 'know' their history does still use it too.....me? in my lil reality, i find it have to much other thing to worry bout in this life than to worry bout if a black man/woman choose to call each other the 'n' word.
now if somebody else use it (and me eh talking bout de wiggers and wannabes) then is bacahnal ;)
unless something was lost in translation clarence and jose is (are) two big imps!
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seedorf and mourinho yes yes lets down play this, no no lets equate it to talking about a player's mom. yeah yeah. give racism a red card? NO lets give the other guy a yellow for simulation.
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seedorf and mourinho yes yes lets down play this, no no lets equate it to talking about a player's mom. yeah yeah. give racism a red card? NO lets give the other guy a yellow for simulation.
Something wrong cyah b square. Some peeps eh care bout bein called a monkey but if u cuss dey mudder dey might just pull a Zidane.
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The fact is that certain players stand out because of their behaviour on the pitch. Balotelli needs to understand that if he continues to behave this way he will continue to elicit similar reactions everywhere he goes.
What did Balotelli do wrong here ? If anything he should have put it through his legs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/fxJIl9F1Po4
Because he embarrass a defender .Steups . All that is football. That is the reason why I started watching football in the first place. It might be a different culture but you can't tell me a player showing skill is an insult to the fans. Tiago look bad and get send off to boot. Fans get vex and start calling the youth shitty nigger and that is not racist ? Steups .Seedorf loss points in my book.
Double click on the video and see how racist some of the comments are.
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The fact is that certain players stand out because of their behaviour on the pitch. Balotelli needs to understand that if he continues to behave this way he will continue to elicit similar reactions everywhere he goes.
What did Balotelli do wrong here ? If anything he should have put it through his legs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/fxJIl9F1Po4
Because he embarrass a defender .Steups . All that is football. That is the reason why I started watching football in the first place. It might be a different culture but you can't tell me a player showing skill is an insult to the fans. Tiago look bad and get send off to boot. Fans get vex and start calling the youth shitty nigger and that is not racist ? Steups .Seedorf loss points in my book.
Double click on the video and see how racist some of the comments are.
Jah Gol For your edification...Pt 1 (http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=26037.0) Pt 2 (http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=33950.0)
As for this race article, I just read the article with amazement...you can't escape racism, it is part of life.
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Touches post de same ting i was thinking bout. And...as a man who was on both sides of de divide several times...both the reciepent and the distributor of toolum......my ting is....yuh cyar take de beat....den doh play. When i realise men on pappy show ting....i goin in hard for de ball...you cyar be embarassing me jus so. I hadda maintain some kinda respect. You cannot tell me a man deserve racial abuse because he try to hit a man a beat. Dis folly bout showboating is madness..it have a thin line between showboating and shows of skill...and people does be vex when dey on de wrong side of it. A man make yuh look dotish..jam him hard.....yuh let blood rush to yuh head and rake him up...take yuh card like a man. Yuh come with beat like is a nike video.....no scene...if i showing yuh me eh able with dat disrespect..no scene same way. Dat madness seedorf talking bout if he continue to behave this way he go get wha he looking for is a pack of ass. So if i sweating and a man hit me some stepover and I hit him a kick and say..."look coolie doh bring dat shit here..."..is no scene? Pack of assness. So where de chant bout "There is no such thing as a Black Italian" come out? And wha underlining my disgust is de fact that he want to play for italy so bad. Steups.
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See the line..there is no such thing as a Black Italian.
This is the chant of those who cannot or who choose not to differentiate between Race and Nationality.
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Maybe is Trini culture influencing my view on this. I could tell yuh if any T&T defender collect a beat like that in the HCS I not getting no horrors from that. I for one could appreciate good play from either side, in defence and attack. There is no rule against showboating if some want to call it that either. Team and players by no means other than their own footballing prowess should deter opponents from doing that. Juventus fans are dead wrong. Your player is the beatee but yuh want to hate the beater,
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You can call somebody the n-word all day long and not be racist that is, not be prejudiced towards those of a different race. And, by the same token, you can sit on your hands and say nothing but then find excuses not to employ a qualified black applicant or discourage your sister from dating a man of African descent "[/i]
Extremely potent statement. Real food for thought.
The second piece is just noise. It's a tactic meant to cloud the point. Reminds me of common tactic referred to as rationalization after the fact but I don't want to digress- Point is- other manifestations of racism are irrelevant to the one under scrutiny....
...and while it is possible to be a non-racist and call someone the N-word....out of anger, spite, or as a fear/distraction tactic whilst not actually harbouring any racial prejudice against the person, the fact remains that calling someone the N-word is a racist act regardless of whether or not the perpetrator is in fact a racist person. And that is where the confusion in the whole Balotelli debate lies...because no one wants to look at themselves and admit to being racist, so as soon as the label is drawn, people are quick to rationalize their act and explain the ulterior motive for their behavior in order abscond themselves from the label.....
but the thing is, in this case the label is not important..... with regard to Balotelli the concern isn't (or shouldn't be) identifying racist people in the stadium...but rather perpetrators of racist acts.....and in this case the way the message was communicated, displayed and perhaps ultimately received by the intended target significantly outweighs the "stated" intention behind it...
If the Ultras were really not racist, and they figure that their message may have been "misunderstood" they should just apologize....
Mourinho is trying to be a diplomat, and Seedorf is a politician... or vice versa ;D
:applause: :applause:
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See the line..there is no such thing as a Black Italian.
This is the chant of those who cannot or who choose not to differentiate between Race and Nationality.
Funny thing that ... in some quarters there is no such thing as a white Italian ...
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And wha underlining my disgust is de fact that he want to play for italy so bad.
Most likely because it's the only country that he can identify with.
He was born in Italy and raised there by Italian parents. He has never lived anywhere else in his life.
Simply put, he is Italian, regardless of whether any moronic fan group tries to tell him that he's not.
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Ok lets see who honest - a negro never get allyuh vex and allyuh cuss him (wheather in yuh mind or in real) and say that black/creole/N*****r mudder so and so? or a indian never get allyuh vex and yuh say 'that coolie', or a white man and u say that 'white or honkey'?
Also, by using the term "black" to identify someone to a race, and then proceeding to comment on them, then isnt that racist?
And negros does call one another n****r, so them racist too? and dont try and pass of that as small thing and they dont know their history etc, cause the same way men can make excuse for them, how can they blame some one else from another race for not knowing about black history?
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Ok lets see who honest - a negro never get allyuh vex and allyuh cuss him (wheather in yuh mind or in real) and say that black/creole/N*****r mudder so and so? or a indian never get allyuh vex and yuh say 'that coolie', or a white man and u say that 'white or honkey'?
Also, by using the term "black" to identify someone to a race, and then proceeding to comment on them, then isnt that racist?
And negros does call one another n****r, so them racist too? and dont try and pass of that as small thing and they dont know their history etc, cause the same way men can make excuse for them, how can they blame some one else from another race for not knowing about black history?
I cosign this... I understand exactly what Seedorf trying to say...abuse is abuse..just because they use a racial slur to do don't make it any different..i personally black people overhype and give too much power to the n-word or believe the word is still a fletching word...i'd be more insulted if somebody diss my mother than call me a n-word to be honest and it has happened..
Seedorf and Mourinho were also correct in not labelling the crowd racist..because they only targeted balotelli..not viera..not muntari or any of the black players on the field... it was against a race..it was against one person..
For all those who doh like Cristano and say he's a Portuguese mudda so and so or what ever..alyuh bias against portuguese 2?
as for jah gol..the abuse hurled at balotelli was not about his hitting tiago A BEAT on that play but his demeanor in general...HE IS NONE TO PROVOKE OPPOSITION FANS..he has done that all season and he did it in the game prior to that...know the full story before drawing generalisations nah...
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This whole topic is retarded i don't know how many of you on here are black o w/e but to agree that because black ppl call each other N word its ok for other people to do it is very stupid... There is no doubt this is racism the N word being shouted to him by a stadium full of white people and its not racism right? got to be kidding me be real sammy you saying because they know African history they got the right to call us N word and then someone actually agree with your none sense just wow your so off and that ish that happen is without a doubt rascist...
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Ok lets see who honest - a negro never get allyuh vex and allyuh cuss him (wheather in yuh mind or in real) and say that black/creole/N*****r mudder so and so? or a indian never get allyuh vex and yuh say 'that coolie', or a white man and u say that 'white or honkey'?
Also, by using the term "black" to identify someone to a race, and then proceeding to comment on them, then isnt that racist?
And negros does call one another n****r, so them racist too? and dont try and pass of that as small thing and they dont know their history etc, cause the same way men can make excuse for them, how can they blame some one else from another race for not knowing about black history?
I cosign this... I understand exactly what Seedorf trying to say...abuse is abuse..just because they use a racial slur to do don't make it any different..i personally black people overhype and give too much power to the n-word or believe the word is still a fletching word...i'd be more insulted if somebody diss my mother than call me a n-word to be honest and it has happened..
Seedorf and Mourinho were also correct in not labelling the crowd racist..because they only targeted balotelli..not viera..not muntari or any of the black players on the field... it was against a race..it was against one person..
For all those who doh like Cristano and say he's a Portuguese mudda so and so or what ever..alyuh bias against portuguese 2?
as for jah gol..the abuse hurled at balotelli was not about his hitting tiago A BEAT on that play but his demeanor in general...HE IS NONE TO PROVOKE OPPOSITION FANS..he has done that all season and he did it in the game prior to that...know the full story before drawing generalisations nah...
Naive
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http://www.youtube.com/v/OesOn1yz4ew
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Ok lets see who honest - a negro never get allyuh vex and allyuh cuss him (wheather in yuh mind or in real) and say that black/creole/N*****r mudder so and so? or a indian never get allyuh vex and yuh say 'that coolie', or a white man and u say that 'white or honkey'?
Also, by using the term "black" to identify someone to a race, and then proceeding to comment on them, then isnt that racist?
And negros does call one another n****r, so them racist too? and dont try and pass of that as small thing and they dont know their history etc, cause the same way men can make excuse for them, how can they blame some one else from another race for not knowing about black history?
You's ah kinda jackass or what? Seriously?
The context in which black people (who choose to) use the N-word in reference to other black people is clearly different from the one in which people from other races use the word. It is certainly different in this particular case so this particular reference has no place in the current discussion.
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I cosign this... I understand exactly what Seedorf trying to say...abuse is abuse..just because they use a racial slur to do don't make it any different..i personally black people overhype and give too much power to the n-word or believe the word is still a fletching word...i'd be more insulted if somebody diss my mother than call me a n-word to be honest and it has happened..
But that is exactly what makes it an offensive word... the interpretation by the recipient (for whatever reason)... What makes the F word a bad word? You as an individual can't denounce the N-word if people are offended by it...everyone has their reasons
Seedorf and Mourinho were also correct in not labelling the crowd racist..because they only targeted balotelli..not viera..not muntari or any of the black players on the field... it was against a race..it was against one person..
Garbage. Just because it was only targeted at one player doesn't mean it wasn't racist. It just means that the racism was only targeted at one person. You think racist people walk down the street just randomly hurling insults at everyone person of a different race? Or more likely at that one person of a different race that upset them at a particular point in time? Come on man...common sense
For all those who doh like Cristano and say he's a Portuguese mudda so and so or what ever..alyuh bias against portuguese 2?
I've never heard the word Portuguese used as an insult. If that insult came from a group of people who had a history/reputation for discrimination against Portuguese people, then surely it would take on a different meaning...worse yet if there was a derogatory slang word for Portuguese used & substituted for the word Portuguese (as the n-word is substituted for black)...
as for jah gol..the abuse hurled at balotelli was not about his hitting tiago A BEAT on that play but his demeanor in general...HE IS NONE TO PROVOKE OPPOSITION FANS..he has done that all season and he did it in the game prior to that...know the full story before drawing generalisations nah...
I'm not overly sensitive about race, and I wasn't really worked up by this whole Balotelli incident, but to hear people try to defend/justify it is kinda ridiculous...
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@kicker, seedorf eh no politician. he just not getting tie up with this so-called "anti-racist" PR campaign. he's commented on this already: education is the way forward.
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I cosign this... I understand exactly what Seedorf trying to say...abuse is abuse..just because they use a racial slur to do don't make it any different..i personally black people overhype and give too much power to the n-word or believe the word is still a fletching word...i'd be more insulted if somebody diss my mother than call me a n-word to be honest and it has happened..
Seedorf and Mourinho were also correct in not labelling the crowd racist..because they only targeted balotelli..not viera..not muntari or any of the black players on the field... it was against a race..it was against one person..
For all those who doh like Cristano and say he's a Portuguese mudda so and so or what ever..alyuh bias against portuguese 2?
as for jah gol..the abuse hurled at balotelli was not about his hitting tiago A BEAT on that play but his demeanor in general...HE IS NONE TO PROVOKE OPPOSITION FANS..he has done that all season and he did it in the game prior to that...know the full story before drawing generalisations nah...
Fella you have to be some kinda fukking imps to say what you just say there and think it makes sense. Just because the slave master favored his house negros more than he did the field negros does that mean he wasn't biased against his black slaves? The racist slaveholders who raped their female slaves in effort to produce more cheap labor for their plantations, did they suddenly shed their racism in the chamberbed because all their dicks saw at that particular instant was pink and not black?
Don't be fooled... the same people jeering Balotelli today and calling him by the N-word will be the same ones jeering Viera and Muntari tomorrow and calling them by the N-word. Just because a n***er is in their graces today doesn't change the fact that he remains a n***er in their eyes... he just happens to NOT be the one that they're focusing their wrath on that particular day.
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I cosign this... I understand exactly what Seedorf trying to say...abuse is abuse..just because they use a racial slur to do don't make it any different..i personally black people overhype and give too much power to the n-word or believe the word is still a fletching word...i'd be more insulted if somebody diss my mother than call me a n-word to be honest and it has happened..
Seedorf and Mourinho were also correct in not labelling the crowd racist..because they only targeted balotelli..not viera..not muntari or any of the black players on the field... it was against a race..it was against one person..
For all those who doh like Cristano and say he's a Portuguese mudda so and so or what ever..alyuh bias against portuguese 2?
as for jah gol..the abuse hurled at balotelli was not about his hitting tiago A BEAT on that play but his demeanor in general...HE IS NONE TO PROVOKE OPPOSITION FANS..he has done that all season and he did it in the game prior to that...know the full story before drawing generalisations nah...
Fella you have to be some kinda f**kking imps to say what you just say there and think it makes sense. Just because the slave master favored his house negros more than he did the field negros does that mean he wasn't biased against his black slaves? The racist slaveholders who raped their female slaves in effort to produce more cheap labor for their plantations, did they suddenly shed their racism in the chamberbed because all their dicks saw at that particular instant was pink and not black?
Don't be fooled... the same people jeering Balotelli today and calling him by the N-word will be the same ones jeering Viera and Muntari tomorrow and calling them by the N-word. Just because a n***er is in their graces today doesn't change the fact that he remains a n***er in their eyes... he just happens to NOT be the one that they're focusing their wrath on that particular day.
i naive perhaps...but i'd say you all are shortsighted
so let me hear you then..what is a fletching ni**er to you? balotelli is a slave on a plantation because some ppl who mad at him in a stadium who he making more oney than call him a ni**er?
The fact we still arguing and bitching ver the word ni**er..giving racists more power to use the word because they know we will get offended by it?
How is what they did to Balotelli any better or worse than liverpool fans asking frank lampard where his mother was during the champion's league semi final last year?
Stopping use of the word ni**er will not stop racism.. and the word itself does nothing to me..if i doh get a job because I am discriminated against because of my colour, that's something to get offended about...not because a f**king man call me a ni**er...
touches said it right...YOU CANNOT STOP RACISM..to stop it you have to stop all discrimination across the board..can you do that?
the best way IN MY OPINION...is lessen the power of this word...
so go ahead..get mad at me because I'm not mad they used some racial slurs against one black man on field..but applauded and cheered on the others...
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disappointed with Mourinho and Seedorf's tolerance of this, given that Mourinho would have been involved in the fight to show racism the red card during his time in the EPL.
They're trying to digress from what was said, and their perceived intent. For example, when you hear a racially charged statement towards Asians, it's usually Chinese people that are slandered, whether or not they're Japanese, Korean, Thai, etc. So if a Korean is in the company of Chinese and a racial slur is used involving "Chinese effin so and so" then it doesn't mean that the Korean get off scot free.
Same as when a Trini Indian get labelled because of their perceived resemblance to Indians, Pakistanis, Middle Easterners, etc. Should they not take offence to statements about Indos, Pakis and M. Easterners since they from the Caribbean?
If the Italians are trying to get these excuses to fly, then will this justify what La Liga crowds are notorious for?
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i naive perhaps...but i'd say you all are shortsighted
so let me hear you then..what is a fletching ni**er to you? balotelli is a slave on a plantation because some ppl who mad at him in a stadium who he making more oney than call him a ni**er?
The fact we still arguing and bitching ver the word ni**er..giving racists more power to use the word because they know we will get offended by it?
How is what they did to Balotelli any better or worse than liverpool fans asking frank lampard where his mother was during the champion's league semi final last year?
Stopping use of the word ni**er will not stop racism.. and the word itself does nothing to me..if i doh get a job because I am discriminated against because of my colour, that's something to get offended about...not because a f**king man call me a ni**er...
touches said it right...YOU CANNOT STOP RACISM..to stop it you have to stop all discrimination across the board..can you do that?
the best way IN MY OPINION...is lessen the power of this word...
so go ahead..get mad at me because I'm not mad they used some racial slurs against one black man on field..but applauded and cheered on the others...
Doh get it tie up... just because I call you ah jackass fuh posting some f**kkery don't mean I "getting mad". You making yuhself look like ah ass and I just helping you realize it. This is clearly evidenced by your failure to appreciate my slavery analogy, you have to be dotish to think that anyone said Balotelli was a 'slave'. As for the rest of that shit yuh type about not being able to stop racism... even if correct that don't mean you do nothing about it. FIFA, UEFA et al are correct in doing whatever is in THEIR power to limit racism wherever it exists in their game. If you and the racists don't like it or think their efforts futile then tough shit... deal with it.
There are different approaches to eradicating racism... one focus is as you suggested, to reduce the potency of the word by not overreacting to every instance of its usage. However there is nothing you can offer as proof of this being the only (or best even) foolproof method for countering racism. Whether we succeed in changing the mindset of those who would use the N-word in a public stadium is an irrelevant consideration... the focus should be to make them unwelcomed (in the least) to use the word at such venues. That's just a beginning and is more than appropriate as a first step... punish the miscreants and I bet you they'll think twice before they do the same again. This is the effective as specific deterrence against these particular individuals, and it's just as effective as a general deterrent against others from doing the same.
I also won't waste anytime addressing your Lampard analogy... if you can't perceive the difference between the two then you clearly aren't ready to be having this discussion.
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One thing I sure of no one calling me N****a or N****r at all. IN school them basketballers use to try hail me like that. I let them know right off I not on that. Call me something else. Not that I have hang ups or anything, but I believe that no one should call any one words like that.
When ever I use nigga or coolie or redneck is because I vex and I using the term in a derragatory nature. Other than that I not encouraging anything like that. Just me.
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abuse is abuse..racial slur or not..that's all i saying... just because i don't think the way you do..i am jackass because i don't think like you..or agree..ok..
i have nothing more to say..
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abuse is abuse..racial slur or not..that's all i saying... just because i don't think the way you do..i am jackass because i don't think like you..or agree..ok..
i have nothing more to say..
Apologies if I offended you... next time I'll call you a genius for talking shit.
Cheers on your way out :beermug:
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abuse is abuse..racial slur or not..that's all i saying... just because i don't think the way you do..i am jackass because i don't think like you..or agree..ok..
i have nothing more to say..
That's not all you were saying though to be fair - you made a sweeping remark about black people's perception of certain forms of racial abuse in order to play down the impact of the N word across the board.....which I think is kinda audacious given the fact that people have different experiences and different upbringings, and hence varying degrees of sensitivity to the word...
Then you tried to claim that the insults thrown at Balotelli were not racist simply because no other black player on the field was targeted- we can think differently sure, but that simply doesn't make sense
And even if your point is to say that all abuse it the same (which I agree has merit theoretically, though in reality it's a gross oversimplification)....it has nothing to do with the contention that the ULTRA's insults thrown at Balotelli constituted a racist act, should be frowned upon and to the extent possible appropriately dealt with.
Just because one form of abuse doesn't garner the just attention doesn't mean that you can play down all others under the sweeping statement that abuse is abuse...Name calling aside, that's kinda ridiculous man...
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This whole topic is retarded i don't know how many of you on here are black o w/e but to agree that because black ppl call each other N word its ok for other people to do it is very stupid... There is no doubt this is racism the N word being shouted to him by a stadium full of white people and its not racism right? got to be kidding me be real sammy you saying because they know African history they got the right to call us N word and then someone actually agree with your none sense just wow your so off and that ish that happen is without a doubt rascist...
no breads, i not condoning people calling him n*gger. That was very unfortunate.
The point about knowing african history was made in reference to an earlier comment on this thread about negro people calling one another n*gger because they dont know their history. People does use that as an excuse
The question is, does someone calling someone else a n*gger make them a racist?
I asked some of my african friends in the office, and they agreed that it dosen't necessarily make u a racist. For eg. the other day i said to one of them( an african) with their new hair style, that they looking like a black coolie with bay rum in dey head, or another time they might say that I acting like a old n*gger. Does that make any one of us racist?
Thats the point that seedorf trying to make and people seem to be missing it.
And I still waiting for all those people who like to bump they gum answer this question :
Ok lets see who honest - a negro never get allyuh vex and allyuh cuss him (wheather in yuh mind or in real) and say that black/creole/N*****r mudder so and so? or a indian never get allyuh vex and yuh say 'that coolie', or a white man and u say that 'white or honkey' or those muzlim terrorist?
Or how bout - iz black people responsible for majority of murders in the country?
all those who commented before, allyuh answer nah?
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One thing I sure of no one calling me N****a or N****r at all. IN school them basketballers use to try hail me like that. I let them know right off I not on that. Call me something else. Not that I have hang ups or anything, but I believe that no one should call any one words like that.
When ever I use nigga or coolie or redneck is because I vex and I using the term in a derragatory nature. Other than that I not encouraging anything like that. Just me.
I hear yuh brother... yuh is a big man for coming and talking u mind. Yuh sum up mu points right there.
Do i think u racist - certainly not. :beermug:
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I would caution people that Seedorf and Mourinho's comments were not necessarily connected to Juve fans calling Balotelli the N-word. All other articles I've read report them responding to the chant: "a black italian does not exist".
I could undertsand some people would try to argue this is not a racist act, even though I disagree. I've seen enough of Seedorf and Mourinho to know they are pretty intelligent and I highly doubt anyone would defend a chant 'shi**y ni***r'.
I also don't think there is an Italian 'equivalent' to the word 'ni***er'..and since they would be chanting to Balotelli, they'd be chanting in Italian calling him a shi**y black, or a shi**y African. Of course..this changes nothing, and I am making an assumption about the Italian language and slang...I know spanish and portuguese well enough to know there is no direct equivalent, but my knowledge of Italian is very limited. But in the first two..the insult comes from the adjective that comes before the word 'black'. Similar to the way Aragones insulted Henry when trying to rile up Reyes a few years back.
What's my point? All that was just to say I hate inaccruate reporting. Either every other atrticle is sadly trying to hide the ferocity of the insults, or this article is trying to be overly sensational. Either way, I don't think Mourinho and Seedorf are correct. Maybe not all of the ultras had the same intent, but who are they to know what everyone's intent was? Just as one can't assume everyone had a racist intent, you cnnot simply assume the opposite. And as mentioned before...regardless of intent, it focuses on race to direct an insult...making it a racist act imo.
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I also don't think there is an Italian 'equivalent' to the word 'ni***er'..
"nero" means black man. "negro" is a derogatory version of the same word.
You could say that "negro" is the Italian version of "ni**er", although because of their history it doesn't carry quite the same weight there as the N-word does in the USA or other countries of the English speaking world.
What the Juventus fans were calling Balotelli was almost certainly "negro di merda" (shitty ni**er).
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Well fellas i havent heard an update to the Onyewu situation, but we have our verdict in our case, and yes racism wins again!!!! You have no idea how fumed and upset i am at this point....lord knows violence is at the top of my agenda currently!!! Let me give you guys the scenario as to what played off.
We are a majority Caribbean team playing in the Cobb Amatear Soccer League. When we joined the league some years ago they placed us in division 3. We have won our way to Division 2 and this year we won the league to be promoted to D1. Last Sunday we had our quarter final game against a team comprised of Whites. Since our inception the league has tried everything to get us out or made it difficult for us to play games on a regular basis. For example, the Fall half of the league, all other teams played 7 games we only played 3. One game an official was quoted as saying that "I am not officiating this game because this game looks like its going to be a rough one". This was a white female official. One of the sideline officials was not there as yet but the game can proceed with 2 officials if need be. She saw us warming up and made that determination. Anyhow, weeks before the game ever played, we protested the assignment of a referee to that game, but we never received any word as to our protest. This ref has a very bad history with our team...we have had at least 4 games with him that he ensured we lost by making late bad calls or we had players injured by his no calls for other teams tackles on us. Sunday arrived and he is the official. The team we are playing found some new players...not sure if they were registered in time...but they definitely brought improvements for us. Mind you, the referee assignor for the league is affiliated to the team we are playing against...a notion known by everyone. At the half they leading 1-0...a legit goal. However, we got no calls....any shoulder to shoulder we initiated was called against us. Any tackle against us was allowed...one of our defenders received a nasty tackle on his ankle....he is in a cast suffering from an ankle fracture currently...ref didnt not call it as a foul.
At the start of the 2nd half we started doing our thing...playing our brand of ball...the opponents getting frustrated and lashing out at us physically. Anytime we try to hint at retaliating we get cards and calls against us. We ended up scoring twice to make the game 2-1. The last ten minutes we did not get a call....the linesman even signalled the ball for us on three occassions and the referee over ruled him in favor of the next team on all occassions. Last minute of the game, the game has stopped because the ref is about to make his 3rd over rule. Our sweeper has the ball in his hand. When we recognise the overturn of the call he rolls the ball to the ref. The striker from their team apparently didnt like that so he kicks our sweeper on the knee. Our guy asked him wat de hell was that. His response was that you are a big black fella..that didnt hurt you so stop whinning. The corner comes in and we clear it....as the teams are running out of the box, our sweeper headbutts the guy on his temple...the opposing players then punches our player at the back of the head. At this time the sweeper decides ok he done with all that foolishness. Minutes later the ref reluctantly blows off the game and we won 2-1. While shaking hands the opposing striker goes to my sweeper and makes a sacaristic remark and offers a hand shake at the same time. My sweeper tells him he's not shaking his hand. The opposing player then grabs his shirt....my sweeper floors him with a right hook...and then all players...including their spectators stormed the field.
At this point its a scene on the field. Honestly speaking most of the players who ran back onto the field are trying to break up the fight instead of contributing to it. While we are seperating the fight one of their players walks up to our manager, in plain sight of the ref, and says "YOU f**kING NIGGAS DONT DESERVE TO WIN NO CHAMPIONSHIP". My manager then turns to the ref and says you need to do something about that because he wont stand for that kinda language. The ref turns and says "He wasnt talking to you he was talking to me". Mind you the ref is white so thats bullshit. My manager insists further and the ref gives their player a red card. At the end of it all, our sweeper didnt get a card, another one of our players who was not involved in the fight got red carded and another one of their players received the same as well.
We received an email on Monday night saying that we have a semi final game on Wednesday night. Minutes later we get another email saying that we have been disqualified from the league based on the events on Sunday. They gave us a hearing yesterday, which we attented (mind you the panel is comprised of 6 white men and one black guy). We presented evidence and documents to show that we do not deserve to be disqualified from the knock out. Coming down to the end of the hearing we had panel members agreeing with our points of view. This morning we received an email saying that the ruling stands and we are disqualified from the tournament. Mind you there was no team that was going to win the cash prize but us....and that was even said by one of the panel members last night.
It's really a sad day when the color of your skin and the sound of your voice is used as a weapon against you in today's society. At this point I'm not sure what the next course of action is going to be. So, Onyewu fighting racism in Europe but he shud probably take a look at his homeland as well cause right here in good old Cobb County in Georgia, the rebel flag flies high and proud and racism is the weapon to perpetrate their crimes against minorities in society!!! Pure f**kery!!!!
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Sad situation.
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Yeah. People warn me about
Cobb Copp County. They doh like us too much out there.
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The corner comes in and we clear it....as the teams are running out of the box, our sweeper headbutts the guy on his temple...the opposing players then punches our player at the back of the head. At this time the sweeper decides ok he done with all that foolishness. Minutes later the ref reluctantly blows off the game and we won 2-1. While shaking hands the opposing striker goes to my sweeper and makes a sacaristic remark and offers a hand shake at the same time. My sweeper tells him he's not shaking his hand. The opposing player then grabs his shirt....my sweeper floors him with a right hook...and then all players...including their spectators stormed the field.
Sad situation indeed.
BUT
You provided them with the ammunition they needed to disqualify you. Now is all well and good for me to sit here and tell you bout turnin de oddah cheek and all dem ting. But your team knew they didn't like you, they never wanted you to win anything, and would do whatever they could to prevent that from becoming a reality.
Were you provoked into retaliating? From your account, most definitely. But retaliate you did and that's all they needed.
You have a choice. Take all de abuse, doh retaliate and take yuh trophy. Or to ass was wit takin any abuse, say f**k 'EM and buss dey forkane head.
Me? Me eh want to win no trophy or championship so bad where I have to tolerate all dem dotishness in order to get it. If daz de case, I have to be gettin paid & paid WELL fuh takin dah kinda shit. Dey could keep de forkane championship fuh all I care. Me eh want it.
But daz jes me.
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The corner comes in and we clear it....as the teams are running out of the box, our sweeper headbutts the guy on his temple...the opposing players then punches our player at the back of the head. At this time the sweeper decides ok he done with all that foolishness. Minutes later the ref reluctantly blows off the game and we won 2-1. While shaking hands the opposing striker goes to my sweeper and makes a sacaristic remark and offers a hand shake at the same time. My sweeper tells him he's not shaking his hand. The opposing player then grabs his shirt....my sweeper floors him with a right hook...and then all players...including their spectators stormed the field.
Sad situation indeed.
BUT
You provided them with the ammunition they needed to disqualify you. Now is all well and good for me to sit here and tell you bout turnin de oddah cheek and all dem ting. But your team knew they didn't like you, they never wanted you to win anything, and would do whatever they could to prevent that from becoming a reality.
Were you provoked into retaliating? From your account, most definitely. But retaliate you did and that's all they needed.
You have a choice. Take all de abuse, doh retaliate and take yuh trophy. Or to ass was wit takin any abuse, say f**k 'EM and buss dey forkane head.
Me? Me eh want to win no trophy or championship so bad where I have to tolerate all dem dotishness in order to get it. If daz de case, I have to be gettin paid & paid WELL fuh takin dah kinda shit. Dey could keep de forkane championship fuh all I care. Me eh want it.
But daz jes me.
Well i think that's where most of us are at right now...but my point is it shudnt have to come down to that at all!!
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Dat chupidness still happening in Georgia......steuppes....I swear we did get rid ah dat. Dis racism ting is ah sad sad ting. But strange enough, the white folks of my generation are quite indifferent about it. They actually prefer to hang out with black folks. But they still have a few white cacaholes who still want to go dong de same road dey parents went dong
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The corner comes in and we clear it....as the teams are running out of the box, our sweeper headbutts the guy on his temple...the opposing players then punches our player at the back of the head. At this time the sweeper decides ok he done with all that foolishness. Minutes later the ref reluctantly blows off the game and we won 2-1. While shaking hands the opposing striker goes to my sweeper and makes a sacaristic remark and offers a hand shake at the same time. My sweeper tells him he's not shaking his hand. The opposing player then grabs his shirt....my sweeper floors him with a right hook...and then all players...including their spectators stormed the field.
Sad situation indeed.
BUT
You provided them with the ammunition they needed to disqualify you. Now is all well and good for me to sit here and tell you bout turnin de oddah cheek and all dem ting. But your team knew they didn't like you, they never wanted you to win anything, and would do whatever they could to prevent that from becoming a reality.
Were you provoked into retaliating? From your account, most definitely. But retaliate you did and that's all they needed.
You have a choice. Take all de abuse, doh retaliate and take yuh trophy. Or to ass was wit takin any abuse, say f**k 'EM and buss dey forkane head.
Me? Me eh want to win no trophy or championship so bad where I have to tolerate all dem dotishness in order to get it. If daz de case, I have to be gettin paid & paid WELL fuh takin dah kinda shit. Dey could keep de forkane championship fuh all I care. Me eh want it.
But daz jes me.
Well i think that's where most of us are at right now...but my point is it shudnt have to come down to that at all!!
Yuh right. It SHOULDN'T. But it is what it is....black president and all.
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Man I jess get real rile up oui. When you think about the training, time and money yuh put in to rep yuh team and jess so they lick yuh up, then ah making sure that the next time I have to retaliate, then ah retaliating in full breds. If is nigga dey want to see, then is nigga ah go show them.
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I was paid to coach a team in Cobb one time. Drove out there and conducted the session. After the session all the parents talking to me and tell me how they would like me to come back and do some more sessions for them. I done realize the scene long time and tell them I will let them know.
I watch how they behave and theirs and they children initial response to me when I first showed up. Them people is real stress they.
Fordy I understand alyuh frustration boy. Kick up they arse, GA real backwards.
Send a report to the GA soccer association and if they don't investigate write the USSF. Don't take that just so. They does feel all immigrants here illegally so they won't do anything.
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My brother gave up cricket in England because he suffered prejudice and racism at every level of the game,he gave up even though he was considered an England potential from the age of 14.Racism goes on in every sport,I have seen umpires in cricket do exactly what was described about what the refferees were doing to the Caribbean team.
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Sad meh muddac*nt !! yuh mean sick!!! breds allyuh have a real good case tuh sue if i ever heard one! what the fack allyuh waiting for!!! and if needs be , take it all the way too the supreme court. write letters to congress and yuh state senitors!! allyuh could end up owning this league. like allyuh doh like money or what?
this would be a good way tuh get back @ the uncivilized bastards. and it would be a plus if someone had ah tape of the game. stop being emotional victims and start hitting these cave dwellers where it hurts!!!
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Man I jess get real rile up oui. When you think about the training, time and money yuh put in to rep yuh team and jess so they lick yuh up, then ah making sure that the next time I have to retaliate, then ah retaliating in full breds. If is nigga dey want to see, then is nigga ah go show them.
lol.
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In the age of camera phones and video, you should have taped the game. If there is a video, then please submit it to ESPN and put it on youtube. Then you will get justice if your story is completely true. The media would be all over this.
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Man I jess get real rile up oui. When you think about the training, time and money yuh put in to rep yuh team and jess so they lick yuh up, then ah making sure that the next time I have to retaliate, then ah retaliating in full breds. If is nigga dey want to see, then is nigga ah go show them.
Yuh have tuh hit them ppl where it really hurts , in their stinking savage pockets!! retaliation is what they want so they could brand yuh as ah trouble maker. that emotional response is what they expect and they know it doh ever work, what yuh need tuh do is challenge dem @ their own game. that's how we got civil right! yuh think if we did fight them physically we woulda win any thing? use their own weapon against them , their LAW.
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I had a an experience on a smaller scale up there. in white PA, amish country. Playing in a tournament...we rech the final. Defending champs from the year before and the only black players in the league (we had some white guys too tho, and two spanish...a decent mix). We down 1-0, i playing stopper and a marking a man. We have them under pressure so is only me and him and the next stopper around. The man score the one goal so he cocky and giving me talk whole game and i taking it like a good pro...then he look to watch me and say "effing black rastafarian faggot"...and he look to stand up next to me like is nutting. he eh even walk away or grandcharge...the man just say that and stand up next to me while i marking him.
I try hard eh, but i couldn't let it pass. One cuff is all it take. Man on the ground bleeding and pass out. I start to walk one time instead of waiting on the red card...but lo and behold, the officials didn't see it cause play up on the other end. Somebody on the sidelines start to signal that a man injured but nobody know what went on. he get up groggy and they take him off but i hearing him on the sidelines saying "the effing nigga punched me, effin nigga etc."
We couldn't equalise tho so I tho i won that battle, we lost the war. So after the game he came to shake my hand to make peace and tell me "don't take it off the field, it's just a game". Probably thought i was some gangsta from philly ready to ride back and bus a cap in his ass...i eh shake his hand at the end when he came over i just walk away instead of pursuing it further.
at least i get away with a lil something...sigh.
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Sad meh muddac*nt !! yuh mean sick!!! breds allyuh have a real good case tuh sue if i ever heard one! what the fack allyuh waiting for!!! and if needs be , take it all the way too the supreme court. write letters to congress and yuh state senitors!! allyuh could end up owning this league. like allyuh doh like money or what?
this would be a good way tuh get back @ the uncivilized bastards. and it nah, take they skin to courtwould be a plus if someone had ah tape of the game. stop being emotional victims and start hitting these cave dwellers where it hurts!!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: JC yuh right! The higher up football associations will take this more seriously than the petty small ones. And if allyuh feel yuh have a good case take it to the courts.
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Dat chupidness still happening in Georgia.
Absoultely no surprise there. De KKK HQ has always been in Georgia. Only de lawd knows why all dem black people move there when the economy was good. Following famous sports people, musicians and movie stars could get you in trouble sometimes. Yes yuh could move into certain neighbourhoods but yuh must come out of there if yuh living yuh life. Georgia and de South is bad news. Carolina is de new hot spot. Same shit...jes different flies hovering over it.
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How about form your own league.
By playing in their league you are just building up your enemy.
Too often we just want to be accepted into the white mans world when we could build our own league.
Then you would not have to worry about none of this sort of stuff.
You could pick your own qualified refs etc etc.
Something to think about.
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Dat chupidness still happening in Georgia.
Absoultely no surprise there. De KKK HQ has always been in Georgia. Only de lawd knows why all dem black people move there when the economy was good. Following famous sports people, musicians and movie stars could get you in trouble sometimes. Yes yuh could move into certain neighbourhoods but yuh must come out of there if yuh living yuh life. Georgia and de South is bad news. Carolina is de new hot spot. Same shit...jes different flies hovering over it.
Stone Mountain, Ga...
Had a similar situation a few years back... playing with an all Caribbean team at the Soccerdome in Howard County Md, and we hit this Korean team 3 in the space of team minutes, ah fella elbow me in the face... that open the flood gates... of hits and insults. The white ref ah doing nutten, unknowing that the Yardie on the team was an ex soldier stationed at Ft Meade with a Korean wife... understanding all that them saying fluently. Same fella hit meh. I say fork it, and next challenge in the corner, lunged and him.... all yuh hear was "anhiiieeeeee" and that was the end of me and the game. That kinda forkery prevalent, yuh should try playing baseball and see how much pitchers does try to hit yuh.....
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How about form your own league.
By playing in their league you are just building up your enemy.
Too often we just want to be accepted into the white mans world when we could build our own league.
Then you would not have to worry about none of this sort of stuff.
You could pick your own qualified refs etc etc.
Something to think about.
been there done that. foolishly enough then you have to fight up against yuh own caribbean black people fighting yuh down. this was a caribbean league and it have 8 jamaican teams, 1 trini team, 1 haitian team and 2 mixed teams with some whites and spanish. if it wasnt a shoot out after dem ja lose their game, it was some other drama going on. man reach the age now where they trying to have their families on a sunday evening watching some fun football and enjoying themselves instead of them ducking and hiding from bullet.
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you/your team should try sending your story to the media outlets try ESPN or someone.
make a big deal as you can about it as you can.
keep on doing it till you see the story online & in the papers.
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been there done that. foolishly enough then you have to fight up against yuh own caribbean black people fighting yuh down. this was a caribbean league and it have 8 jamaican teams, 1 trini team, 1 haitian team and 2 mixed teams with some whites and spanish. if it wasnt a shoot out after dem ja lose their game, it was some other drama going on. man reach the age now where they trying to have their families on a sunday evening watching some fun football and enjoying themselves instead of them ducking and hiding from bullet.
The Caribbean League in Atlanta mash up? That was a best league... this is de same league with Reno and dem?
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Dat chupidness still happening in Georgia.
Absoultely no surprise there. De KKK HQ has always been in Georgia. Only de lawd knows why all dem black people move there when the economy was good. Following famous sports people, musicians and movie stars could get you in trouble sometimes. Yes yuh could move into certain neighbourhoods but yuh must come out of there if yuh living yuh life. Georgia and de South is bad news. Carolina is de new hot spot. Same shit...jes different flies hovering over it.
If you feel Carolina eh have racism dream on partner....
I lived in Virginia and there was racism there and in NY too, so people leh we doh fool weself.
I live in the Atlanta suburds too and we play in Gwinnett. Yuh go always meets some idiots but by large everybody not like that. What's funny is that we all critizing and trini has real differences too...Let's be real guys, cooler heads have to prevail, don't participate with these racist idiots (by the way, allyuh couldn't pay meh to live in Cobb), and move on.
I agree with going to GA soccer, however, who yuh think they go side with...ESPN, please, yuh think them what something that not on video? Fordy, just leave them with their league and play where you not encountering all that nonsense. Talk with allyuh money....
Bottom line, we will all face some sort of racism at some point in our lives especially if we live in the US.
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Man I jess get real rile up oui. When you think about the training, time and money yuh put in to rep yuh team and jess so they lick yuh up, then ah making sure that the next time I have to retaliate, then ah retaliating in full breds. If is nigga dey want to see, then is nigga ah go show them.
Yuh have tuh hit them ppl where it really hurts , in their stinking savage pockets!! retaliation is what they want so they could brand yuh as ah trouble maker. that emotional response is what they expect and they know it doh ever work, what yuh need tuh do is challenge dem @ their own game. that's how we got civil right! yuh think if we did fight them physically we woulda win any thing? use their own weapon against them , their LAW.
JC thats the next step we looking to take. unfortunately here how dutty these people is. that game was last sunday...they sent d email on tuesday evening....we was supposed to play the semi final on wednesday. the final is sunday. when they send the email they say if we want to appeal the hearing is on thursday. in the interim the team we was supposed to play on wednesday gone through to the final. they say if we win the appeal we will play semi final saturday and final on sunday. the final game has to play on sunday because Cobb County parks and recreation does close all their fields to all leagues on that day, so after sunday all dem fields going to be closed....for reseeding and shit like that. so when we take it to the upper ups it not going to help our on field issues...which is wat they want...but it will shed light on the bigger issue on hand..which is wat we planning on doing. :beermug:
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been there done that. foolishly enough then you have to fight up against yuh own caribbean black people fighting yuh down. this was a caribbean league and it have 8 jamaican teams, 1 trini team, 1 haitian team and 2 mixed teams with some whites and spanish. if it wasnt a shoot out after dem ja lose their game, it was some other drama going on. man reach the age now where they trying to have their families on a sunday evening watching some fun football and enjoying themselves instead of them ducking and hiding from bullet.
The Caribbean League in Atlanta mash up? That was a best league... this is de same league with Reno and dem?
yeh!
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www.cobbsoccer.com/
fordy this is the same league
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www.cobbsoccer.com/
fordy this is the same league
yip dats d league's website.
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sorry to hear that allya gettin grief from them people
buh to be honest REAL STUPID PEOPLE does treat all people, especially if they believe that they different from them, terrible.
They were some REAL IGNORANT assholes in the Little League Baseball when my daughter was playing. They ONLY catered to THEIR friends and DEKCUF with the rest of us. Imagine that the president of the league refused to take a letter from me, so I took it to those above her. They refused to pick my daughter for the all star team and instead gave her a 3 foot high trophy. The all star team coach was notorious in making many of these under 13 kids cry. It is worst when it is young people.
the place operated like RED NECK Inc/LLC oui
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www.cobbsoccer.com/
fordy this is the same league
Pull ah lil strings for we...thanks nnyman.
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Well I visited a brethen down dey last summer so I know first hand the things all yuh talking bout. All yuh put a beating on a team in the final to win the money last year and I really enjoyed that. So ah understand the frustration this time around with all that racism thing. Meh man Gman geh me some more insights into the situation but still if the league wanted to take action they should have suspended player or players. Aint nothing wrong putting a man to sleep for a lil 5 minutes if he behaving bad :rotfl:
I intend to send some emails and make some phone calls on my end and encourage others in my fraternity to do the same. This must brought to the surface. I am in the process of drafting an email presently. I will forward the email list to this site for as many men to follow suit
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Man I jess get real rile up oui. When you think about the training, time and money yuh put in to rep yuh team and jess so they lick yuh up, then ah making sure that the next time I have to retaliate, then ah retaliating in full breds. If is nigga dey want to see, then is nigga ah go show them.
Yuh have tuh hit them ppl where it really hurts , in their stinking savage pockets!! retaliation is what they want so they could brand yuh as ah trouble maker. that emotional response is what they expect and they know it doh ever work, what yuh need tuh do is challenge dem @ their own game. that's how we got civil right! yuh think if we did fight them physically we woulda win any thing? use their own weapon against them , their LAW.
JC thats the next step we looking to take. unfortunately here how dutty these people is. that game was last sunday...they sent d email on tuesday evening....we was supposed to play the semi final on wednesday. the final is sunday. when they send the email they say if we want to appeal the hearing is on thursday. in the interim the team we was supposed to play on wednesday gone through to the final. they say if we win the appeal we will play semi final saturday and final on sunday. the final game has to play on sunday because Cobb County parks and recreation does close all their fields to all leagues on that day, so after sunday all dem fields going to be closed....for reseeding and shit like that. so when we take it to the upper ups it not going to help our on field issues...which is wat they want...but it will shed light on the bigger issue on hand..which is wat we planning on doing. :beermug:
Sorry to here that but JC is right, especially if you have all that bogus email documentation. Pool your monies together and go legal. You could even take it a step further with "Direct Action" such as a small march or picketing. As soon as the media get hold of it things will change.
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Agreed but sending them emails and phone calls just to make them aware that many people are aware of this situation can also help to put pressure and shine a light on the situation
COBB COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS AND ASSOCIATES
fastmike007@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, AdrianShepherd@aol.com, samksoccer@yahoo.com, fncrjf@langate.gsu.edu, casldandp@yahoo.comt.lerner@comcast.net
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Issues concerning the suspension of Xtreme from the Cobb Adult Soccer League
I wanted to touch base with each of you concerning the decision that was made to exclude Xtreme from the remainder of your competition due to incidents that took place on May 31st 2009 during their 5 pm game against Terrapin. Generally we should keep politics out of soccer but when it involves demeaning fellow players and the use of racist remarks to insight others I believe there is no place for this in the game. I am not condoning any form of violence. All those players who participated in any form of violence or racist remarks should be suspended. However, generally when there are situations on an athletic field of this nature players are suspended teams are not disqualified. I was blown away last summer by the actions of a referee in your league towards this same Xtreme team during a final which they won. I was totally amazed by some of the decisions and comments made by the said official towards some of the players of the Xtreme team. This recent turn of events seems to be a continuation of a culture that is being promoted by your organization and some teams/players in the league towards the Xtreme. The only difference this time around is that there is a movement willing to use all forms of media relations and anything other things at our disposal to bring this situation to light. This will be the first of many forms of communications your organization will be receiving as we move forward. I intend to bring this situation to light by sharing it with the soccer community throughout the United States. I also intend on getting in touch with the local media outlets in Cobb County as well.
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what is the proper procedure for a complaint with that league?
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Agreed but sending them emails and phone calls just to make them aware that many people are aware of this situation can also help to put pressure and shine a light on the situation
COBB COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS AND ASSOCIATES
fastmike007@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, AdrianShepherd@aol.com, samksoccer@yahoo.com, fncrjf@langate.gsu.edu, casldandp@yahoo.comt.lerner@comcast.net
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Issues concerning the suspension of Xtreme from the Cobb Adult Soccer League
I wanted to touch base with each of you concerning the decision that was made to exclude Xtreme from the remainder of your competition due to incidents that took place on May 31st 2009 during their 5 pm game against Terrapin. Generally we should keep politics out of soccer but when it involves demeaning fellow players and the use of racist remarks to insight others I believe there is no place for this in the game. I am not condoning any form of violence. All those players who participated in any form of violence or racist remarks should be suspended. However, generally when there are situations on an athletic field of this nature players are suspended teams are not disqualified. I was blown away last summer by the actions of a referee in your league towards this same Xtreme team during a final which they won. I was totally amazed by some of the decisions and comments made by the said official towards some of the players of the Xtreme team. This recent turn of events seems to be a continuation of a culture that is being promoted by your organization and some teams/players in the league towards the Xtreme. The only difference this time around is that there is a movement willing to use all forms of media relations and anything other things at our disposal to bring this situation to light. This will be the first of many forms of communications your organization will be receiving as we move forward. I intend to bring this situation to light by sharing it with the soccer community throughout the United States. I also intend on getting in touch with the local media outlets in Cobb County as well.
good idea ... but besides a few typos, it might be good if you can an attorney to review this and put it in proper legal format - just don't start threatening them with legal action off the bat - at least not yet. Wait on their response.
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Agreed but sending them emails and phone calls just to make them aware that many people are aware of this situation can also help to put pressure and shine a light on the situation
COBB COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS AND ASSOCIATES
fastmike007@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, AdrianShepherd@aol.com, samksoccer@yahoo.com, fncrjf@langate.gsu.edu, casldandp@yahoo.comt.lerner@comcast.net
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Issues concerning the suspension of Xtreme from the Cobb Adult Soccer League
I wanted to touch base with each of you concerning the decision that was made to exclude Xtreme from the remainder of your competition due to incidents that took place on May 31st 2009 during their 5 pm game against Terrapin. Generally we should keep politics out of soccer but when it involves demeaning fellow players and the use of racist remarks to insight others I believe there is no place for this in the game. I am not condoning any form of violence. All those players who participated in any form of violence or racist remarks should be suspended. However, generally when there are situations on an athletic field of this nature players are suspended teams are not disqualified. I was blown away last summer by the actions of a referee in your league towards this same Xtreme team during a final which they won. I was totally amazed by some of the decisions and comments made by the said official towards some of the players of the Xtreme team. This recent turn of events seems to be a continuation of a culture that is being promoted by your organization and some teams/players in the league towards the Xtreme. The only difference this time around is that there is a movement willing to use all forms of media relations and anything other things at our disposal to bring this situation to light. This will be the first of many forms of communications your organization will be receiving as we move forward. I intend to bring this situation to light by sharing it with the soccer community throughout the United States. I also intend on getting in touch with the local media outlets in Cobb County as well.
good idea ... but besides a few typos, it might be good if you can an attorney to review this and put it in proper legal format - just don't start threatening them with legal action off the bat - at least not yet. Wait on their response.
Great idea. I like the foundation created so far. If we could get someone with some kinda legal knowledge to review that would be great. I have no intention on dropping this issue. This nonsense has to stop some time.
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Agreed but sending them emails and phone calls just to make them aware that many people are aware of this situation can also help to put pressure and shine a light on the situation
COBB COUNTY BOARD MEMBERS AND ASSOCIATES
fastmike007@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, inditka@yahoo.com, AdrianShepherd@aol.com, samksoccer@yahoo.com, fncrjf@langate.gsu.edu, casldandp@yahoo.comt.lerner@comcast.net
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Issues concerning the suspension of Xtreme from the Cobb Adult Soccer League
I wanted to touch base with each of you concerning the decision that was made to exclude Xtreme from the remainder of your competition due to incidents that took place on May 31st 2009 during their 5 pm game against Terrapin. Generally we should keep politics out of soccer but when it involves demeaning fellow players and the use of racist remarks to insight others I believe there is no place for this in the game. I am not condoning any form of violence. All those players who participated in any form of violence or racist remarks should be suspended. However, generally when there are situations on an athletic field of this nature players are suspended teams are not disqualified. I was blown away last summer by the actions of a referee in your league towards this same Xtreme team during a final which they won. I was totally amazed by some of the decisions and comments made by the said official towards some of the players of the Xtreme team. This recent turn of events seems to be a continuation of a culture that is being promoted by your organization and some teams/players in the league towards the Xtreme. The only difference this time around is that there is a movement willing to use all forms of media relations and anything other things at our disposal to bring this situation to light. This will be the first of many forms of communications your organization will be receiving as we move forward. I intend to bring this situation to light by sharing it with the soccer community throughout the United States. I also intend on getting in touch with the local media outlets in Cobb County as well.
good idea ... but besides a few typos, it might be good if you can an attorney to review this and put it in proper legal format - just don't start threatening them with legal action off the bat - at least not yet. Wait on their response.
Great idea. I like the foundation created so far. If we could get someone with some kinda legal knowledge to review that would be great. I have no intention on dropping this issue. This nonsense has to stop some time.
Good for you breds. is shyte like this our predecessors had tuh fight up wid that gave us the opportunity to sit and dine in any fancy restaurants or be able to walk into any establishment and be treated equally.
don't let them off the hook! shock them, shame them and fight them with their own hypocritical laws. they must be stopped! do it for the next generation. positive.
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Just spoke to our team manager and we planning to have a meeting within the next couple of days to plan out the next step. I have a direct link within ESPN as well which I am planning on using along with other legal action, once the entire team is willing to go that route. The journey has just began. I also will approach the former manager of Rio Football club, which a similar incident took place some years ago and they suffered the same faith. The other team started the fight in that case, one of the english players called the Cobb County poilce and said there were several "illigals" fighting at a soccer game and at the end seven brazilian players were arrested...none of the english players were and they threw the first punch and began beating one of the brazilian players. The CASL kicked the Brazilian team, who were the 2 time defending champions at the time, out of the league and nothing happened to the English team. This now shows a historic pattern for the CASL.
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Arimaman, where in my post does it say dat Carolina doh have racism? ???
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fordy,
CASL refereeing is a joke.
who you with Xtreme? allyuh is a boss side. i play for jamhuric fc against allyuh already. i say switch to the ADASL for better competition.
i eh active in dat league again because of the bull. but you go always find mih in noonday running ball on their nice fields...i prefer 1-4. the back fields a lil rough these days.
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big up UEFA.
leh we see if it happen.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8131082.stm
Uefa tightens anti-racism rules
Uefa has given referees the power to abandon matches in the event of racist chanting inside a stadium.
European football's governing body has implemented a three-step procedure that comes into force with immediate effect.
The referee should first demand over the public address system that fans' racist behaviour should stop.
The next step is to suspend the match for up to 10 minutes with the teams sent to the dressing room. If that does not work, the game should be abandoned.
Uefa president Michel Platini said there would be no compromise in his organisation's stance against racism in football.
"Our policy on racism is one of zero tolerance," said Platini.
"It was necessary to give the pitch people the means to do something, and we have determined the parameters and lines of conduct, whereby in important cases of racist behaviour in a stadium, a referee must stop the match.
"There are people of authority such as the referee and match delegate who can consult before deciding to temporarily suspend a match for five or 10 minutes, in agreement with officials responsible for security - and from then, if the atmosphere remains negative, the match must be stopped."
BBC Sport's Peter Scrivener
Platini first revealed plans to abandon matches in April of this year after Inter Milan striker Mario Balotelli was racially abused by Juventus fans.
The Italian authorities ordered Juve to play their next home league game behind closed doors.
England players Ashley Cole and Shaun Wright-Phillips were subjected to racial abuse when they played against Spain at Real Madrid's Bernabeu Stadium in 2004.
The decision was taken at a meeting of Uefa's executive committee in Vilnius, Lithuania.
Story from BBC SPORT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/football/8131082.stm
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Excellent.
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Good.
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so if a side losing, they could make some racist chants and have the game suspended?
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so if a side losing, they could make some racist chants and have the game suspended?
And what would be the benefit for them? I doubt platini an dem so short sighted that it eh provide for such tactics.
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is about time they implement a rule like this..
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:applause: UEFA
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i wonder if the game gets replayed or if the team with the racist fans loses the points? if it is the former, then that is a valid question by sammy
what if both teams have vocally racist fans?
the ruling could also attract racist groups who don't give a flying f*ck about football and just want a public forum to be seen.
nice idea..hope they have the details sorted
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WHat does abandon mean? I hope it means that the team loses
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Excellent ! :applause:
WHat does abandon mean? I hope it means that the team loses
I hope it really means a 3-0 loss for de offending team.
If it eh punitive, it eh mean nutten.
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Platini working...he seems expecially focused on the ills of the game. Next up: curbing wanton big spending.....
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so if a side losing, they could make some racist chants and have the game suspended?
glad to see you making sense as EPL outta season ;D
but very valid point. I don't see it happening in La Liga or Serie A per se - but moreso in the UEFA Cup and Champions League matches.
I think they generalised "abandon" because any accusation will only be upheld pending a full investigation - otherwise lots of loopholes in the broad understanding and application of this rule can be exploited - just like the case you pointed out.
what if both teams have vocally racist fans?
the ruling could also attract racist groups who don't give a flying f*ck about football and just want a public forum to be seen.
In many cases that's exactly what it is. There was a match this past season in Germany where a pocket of fans were chanting pro-Nazi slogans and supporters of the same side pointed them out to authorities - so it would be unfair to punish the fans who are inherently good just because of a few rotten apples.
Then comes the curious case of Balotelli who was singled out on a team comprising other black players - not because he was black, but because of his attitude - an interpretation endorsed by other black players. How do you deal with that, without saying that it's ok to make racist chants once it's not really racist?
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Inter Starlet Mario Balotelli To Be Given Anti-Racism Award (http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slug=goal_inter_starlet_mario&prov=goal&type=lgns)
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The funny thing about racism is that yuh cyar buy yuh way out of it.
All the millionare ballers, when they in an airport or a train station and nobody recognise them or even in some cases when they do still face the looks and vibes that yuh is still ah nigger.
I expererience it all the time, no words are passed is just vibes, standing in line to buy something and people securing the purses tighter, looking at yuh straight in yuh eye as if to say you should not be in the same atmosphere as them.
At football games these people express that openly maybe because of alco consumption, a feeling of anonymity, mob strenght or whatever.
To say that you can justify fans calling a player nigger is absolute rubbish.
If racism can be stamped of sporting events , they maybe we will be on the way to a more tolerant world, Touches may be right when he says that rasicm is a fact of life but it is a fact of life for the uninformed and the twats.
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As everyone saying yuh can't justify racist comments, in whatever scenario....they still racist and therefore racism. If I am angry with someone, there are multitudes of things I could call that individual to insult them, make it personal but still not make it racist. The fact that I look at them and decide the best course of action is to insult their colour or ethnicity shows quite clearly that I have no problem with making insulting comments about another race and as that practice is a big part of racism....you would have to say I can't be a major supporter good race relations (and that is being diplomatic). If you truely support good race relations, you would insult a person as an individual rather than classyifying them Black, White, Indian etc.
To justify such practices.....and try to classify things just gives racists more oppertunity to vent their hate and get away with it. As they would argue "I ain't racist, I was just angry and wasn't thinking".
Hadn't seen this before, very surprised by Seedorf....like he have racist neighbours and fraid they go give him ah beating or something.
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Has Gulitt Rykaard Ba Klibert Weah Seedoff been subjected to similar treatment
Raspect
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Russia defends record on racism in WC bid
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48921000/jpg/_48921683_banner.jpg)
Russia World Cup bid chief defends racism track record
The head of Russia's 2018 World Cup bid has defended the country's track record in dealing with racism in football. Alexei Sorokin denies Russian football has a problem with racist fans, despite recent controversy in a league game.
Lokomotiv Moscow fans celebrated Peter Odemwingie's sale in the transfer window with a banner showing a banana and the message: "Thanks West Brom". Lokomotiv escaped sanction, but Sorokin told BBC Sport: "The RFU doesn't accept any demonstrations of racism."
(continue) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8955148.stm)
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Blame Fifa...they need to be consistently hardline on this issue: increase the fines on clubs and associations found guilty of racism astronomically, and ban them. Only then will they realize that this is serious "business" and take responsibility for the actions of their fans.
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Seriously, the way FIFA is courting Russia, it leads one to conclude that FIFA's Racism campaign is just media hype.
Russia is by far one of the most open racist nations on the planet. Dick Advocat is on record as saying he was not allowed to sign black players at Zenith SP. Just recently upon the transfer of a player to West Brom fans in Russia had a huge banner saying thank you West Brom with a banana on it.
Recently in Ukraine ( I know its not Russia but Blokin openly stated that black players have no place in the League.
For once I would like to see FIFA make a stand and set an example for what they preach.
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No its not just words.
Its a mamaguy.
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Its money buddy ,which more important making Billions or helping black ppl to be liked by whites .
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Seriously, the way FIFA is courting Russia, it leads one to conclude that FIFA's Racism campaign is just media hype.
Russia is by far one of the most open racist nations on the planet. Dick Advocat is on record as saying he was not allowed to sign black players at Zenith SP. Just recently upon the transfer of a player to West Brom fans in Russia had a huge banner saying thank you West Brom with a banana on it.
Recently in Ukraine ( I know its not Russia but Blokin openly stated that black players have no place in the League.
For once I would like to see FIFA make a stand and set an example for what they preach.
FIFA will nod their head in agreement and wag their fingers for show, but the anti-racism thing is wall-paper.
Even our very own special advisor overthrow the DFA and put Mr. Patrick John back in charge of Dominica football.
We may even have a T&T player in Ukraine soon.
Real $$$$$ at play, FIFA execs sleeping good tonight.
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FIFA can't stop racism, so yes until everyone takes action, it's just words.
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FIFA can't stop racism, so yes until everyone takes action, it's just words.
people have to stop being racist - not fifa.
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FIFA can't stop racism, so yes until everyone takes action, it's just words.
people have to stop being racist - not fifa.
Hold on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait a minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sure, FIFA's mandate is not to stop racism everywhere ... however, FIFA's mandate IS to stop/not entertain/denounce racism at its venues (broad interpretation of the word 'venues') and as a global actor (essentially damn near everywhere!) FIFA can "stop" racism in its neck of the woods.
Observer highlights the example of Russia. I agree with him fully. However, let's be clear: the vocal expressions of bigotry continuing in the game are not exclusively an indication that FIFA is wholly engaged in platitudes. In part of the accounting these expressions are a recognition by some purveyors of hatred that times are a-changing again. Europe will have to come to terms with the consequence of its various misadventures across Africa, Asia, the Middle East and Latin America. I guess Nostradamus didn't foresee the reverse consequence and cross-pollination of expansionism.
For four years FIFA has committed funding to this campaign and the campaign has been influential. I'm not deluded into thinking it's not making a difference.
FIFA has an opportunity to create teachable moments and is actively rather than passively engaged in that opportunity. Part of this matter related to Russia is the corporate nexus of clubs and federations,their influence and how they are to be held accountable beyond Russian borders for commercial transactions with social and cultural implications. This no doubt has to be engaged differently than the approach taken with confronting the skinhead or neo-Nazi at street level.
Yet, I recall a similar corporate dilemma regarding divestment and apartheid South Africa. As David Nakhid can attest, the Sullivan Principles were definitely JUST words and not "just words". Thus, here we are post-apartheid. Does racism persist in South Africa today? Yes, of course. However, have we had a sea-change in the conduct of the status quo? Absolutely so. Similarly, FIFA's campaign is an agent of change not the final arbiter of change.
What I find disturbing is the defeatist sentiment that it's "just words". What sort of spectacular results are we seeking after four years regarding an endemic phenomenon of varying manifestations and proportions that transcends centuries?
It would be worse if the organization did nothing.
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Yes they can !!! :beermug:
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Sure, FIFA's mandate is not to stop racism everywhere ... however, FIFA's mandate IS to stop/not entertain/denounce racism at its venues (broad interpretation of the word 'venues') and as a global actor (essentially damn near everywhere!) FIFA can "stop" racism in its neck of the woods.
That is not FIFA's mandate. FIFA's primary mandate is to build and spread the game and generate revenues. Anti-racism is obstensible, an externality
the vocal expressions of bigotry continuing in the game are not exclusively an indication that FIFA is wholly engaged in platitudes. In part of the accounting these expressions are a recognition by some purveyors of hatred that times are a-changing again. Europe will have to come to terms with the consequence of its various misadventures across . I guess Nostradamus didn't foresee the reverse consequence and cross-pollination of expansionism.
The most vocal part of european racism does not come from nations that were colonizers of Africa, Asia, the Middle East or Latin America. Spain and Portugal notwithstanding, it comes from nations that never consolidated their populations for more than brief periods of time, at least not enough to go on longstanding colonial adventures around the globe before the 20th century.
For four years FIFA has committed funding to this campaign and the campaign has been influential. I'm not deluded into thinking it's not making a difference.
It may have less to do with FIFA efficacy than the co-option by individual national football associations of messages of tolerence and acceptance coming from the state apparatus. Expect to even see an increase in intolerence in some of these countries by dint of recent waves of anti-immigration and nationalist sentiment.
FIFA has an opportunity to create teachable moments and is actively rather than passively engaged in that opportunity. Part of this matter related to Russia is the corporate nexus of clubs and federations,their influence and how they are to be held accountable beyond Russian borders for commercial transactions with social and cultural implications. This no doubt has to be engaged differently than the approach taken with confronting the skinhead or neo-Nazi at street level.
Eh? In other words nutten going on.
Yet, I recall a similar corporate dilemma regarding divestment and apartheid South Africa... Does racism persist in South Africa today? Yes, of course. However, have we had a sea-change in the conduct of the status quo? Absolutely so. Similarly, FIFA's campaign is an agent of change not the final arbiter of change.
Big BIG difference here! Unlike Europeans, who are passive receptors of the anti-racism message, South Africans themselves were active, VESTED agents of INSTITUTIONAL change. The genie was already emerging. DeKlerk was smart enough to buy his people time by smiling and playing like he help rub the bottle.
What I find disturbing is the defeatist sentiment that it's "just words". What sort of spectacular results are we seeking after four years regarding an endemic phenomenon of varying manifestations and proportions that transcends centuries?
It would be worse if the organization did nothing.
So why restrict possibilites to only two choices? Other options exist. Why dosen't FIFA expend more resources on developing domestic leagues so a greater number athletes can earn a decent living from local sports, instead of supporting the current star system where talent is immediately whisked away to Europe?IMO FIFA's anti-racism 'work' serves mostly to grease the passage of non-whites into euro football so astronomical sums of money pass hands and feed the monopoly. And men like Jack and Sepp.
Anti-racism itself is a EURO CONSTRUCT with all its attendent baggage and assumptions. So me eh go be drinking that flava of cool-aid anytime soon.
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Sure, FIFA's mandate is not to stop racism everywhere ... however, FIFA's mandate IS to stop/not entertain/denounce racism at its venues (broad interpretation of the word 'venues') and as a global actor (essentially damn near everywhere!) FIFA can "stop" racism in its neck of the woods.
That is not FIFA's mandate. FIFA's primary mandate is to build and spread the game and generate revenues. Anti-racism is obstensible, an externality
Clearly, the fight against racism in and around the game has been incorporated into its mission and mandate.
What's the cost of racism? It's an unquantifiable socially unacceptable social cost when viewed from the prism of orthodox contemporary valuation. Even if FIFA is being pragmatic, self-interested and commercially vested in having this campaign ... I'm willing to be a free rider benefiting from it. Racism isn't a mere externality.
the vocal expressions of bigotry continuing in the game are not exclusively an indication that FIFA is wholly engaged in platitudes. In part of the accounting these expressions are a recognition by some purveyors of hatred that times are a-changing again. Europe will have to come to terms with the consequence of its various misadventures across . I guess Nostradamus didn't foresee the reverse consequence and cross-pollination of expansionism.
The most vocal part of european racism does not come from nations that were colonizers of Africa, Asia, the Middle East or Latin America. Spain and Portugal notwithstanding, it comes from nations that never consolidated their populations for more than brief periods of time, at least not enough to go on longstanding colonial adventures around the globe before the 20th century.
I recognized this variable in the equation. I deem it particularly irrelevant because the blacks and browns and yellows and what-have-yous: the "multi-cultural unwashed" have washed up on European shores everywhere ... hence we have ppl running for political office in Slovenia and Russia, and possessing citizenship in other places ... this is a consequence of European expansionism, not necessarily colonialism.
For four years FIFA has committed funding to this campaign and the campaign has been influential. I'm not deluded into thinking it's not making a difference.
It may have less to do with FIFA efficacy than the co-option by individual national football associations of messages of tolerence and acceptance coming from the state apparatus. Expect to even see an increase in intolerence in some of these countries by dint of recent waves of anti-immigration and nationalist sentiment.
FIFA has an opportunity to create teachable moments and is actively rather than passively engaged in that opportunity. Part of this matter related to Russia is the corporate nexus of clubs and federations,their influence and how they are to be held accountable beyond Russian borders for commercial transactions with social and cultural implications. This no doubt has to be engaged differently than the approach taken with confronting the skinhead or neo-Nazi at street level.
Eh? In other words nutten going on.
Yet, I recall a similar corporate dilemma regarding divestment and apartheid South Africa... Does racism persist in South Africa today? Yes, of course. However, have we had a sea-change in the conduct of the status quo? Absolutely so. Similarly, FIFA's campaign is an agent of change not the final arbiter of change.
Big BIG difference here! Unlike Europeans, who are passive receptors of the anti-racism message, South Africans themselves were active, VESTED agents of INSTITUTIONAL change. The genie was already emerging. DeKlerk was smart enough to buy his people time by smiling and playing like he help rub the bottle.
There's not a difference merely because one scenario appears to be more extenuated than the other. The critical point is that agencies of change also include actors that are perceived as passive and benign. History when revisited shows us that these contributors are no less influential in outcomes. Just because FIFA has a corrupt underbelly does not negate its relevance as a social justice actor.
What I find disturbing is the defeatist sentiment that it's "just words". What sort of spectacular results are we seeking after four years regarding an endemic phenomenon of varying manifestations and proportions that transcends centuries?
It would be worse if the organization did nothing.
So why restrict possibilites to only two choices? Other options exist. Why dosen't FIFA expend more resources on developing domestic leagues so a greater number athletes can earn a decent living from local sports, instead of supporting the current star system where talent is immediately whisked away to Europe?IMO FIFA's anti-racism 'work' serves mostly to grease the passage of non-whites into euro football so astronomical sums of money pass hands and feed the monopoly. And men like Jack and Sepp.
Anti-racism itself is a EURO CONSTRUCT with all its attendent baggage and assumptions. So me eh go be drinking that flava of cool-aid anytime soon.
How is anti-racism an "Euro-construct?"
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We all have to do work everywhere because racism is everywhere.
People should start in their own homes before they look elsewhere. Over 1 million indians in T&T, but where are they on the pitch? :o
Americans.....No blacks played on your team last weekend against Italy.
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We all have to do work everywhere because racism is everywhere.
People should start in their own homes before they look elsewhere. Over 1 million indians in T&T, but where are they on the pitch? :o
Americans.....No blacks played on your team last weekend against Italy.
"Over 1 million indians in T&T" when did that happen?
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We all have to do work everywhere because racism is everywhere.
People should start in their own homes before they look elsewhere. Over 1 million indians in T&T, but where are they on the pitch? :o
Americans.....No blacks played on your team last weekend against Italy.
"Over 1 million indians in T&T" when did that happen?
Ahhh well that include dem diasporic folks too :D
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Ahhh well that include dem diasporic folks too :D
"diasporic" from where... Guyana? You doh fed up talk shit fella?
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Clearly, the fight against racism in and around the game has been incorporated into its mission and mandate.
What's the cost of racism? It's an unquantifiable socially unacceptable social cost when viewed from the prism of orthodox contemporary valuation. Even if FIFA is being pragmatic, self-interested and commercially vested in having this campaign ... I'm willing to be a free rider benefiting from it. Racism isn't a mere externality.
No such things as a free ride. Using a somewhat distant analogy...if a mining company destroys a portion of a forest but puts up a few trees, the trees themselves do not present a benefit. A few strategically placed trees can't reproduce the previous complexity of the forest. Jack Warner, has used his influence as a FIFA powerbroker, with the express consent of FIFA, using tools available to him from FIFA to change the structure of football in this country. In doing so he and a few others have turned football into a bloody mess.
Trinidad and Tobago is a perfect test case of the way in which the FIFA model can build up an impressive sporting structure and administrative framework yet completely destroy the game at the same time.
I see that destruction as an inherent aspect of FIFA policy, and all the 'anti-racism' and programs FIFA running cyah make up for ruining football in my country.
I recognized this variable in the equation. I deem it particularly irrelevant because the blacks and browns and yellows and what-have-yous: the "multi-cultural unwashed" have washed up on European shores everywhere ... hence we have ppl running for political office in Slovenia and Russia, and possessing citizenship in other places ... this is a consequence of European expansionism, not necessarily colonialism.
There's not a difference merely because one scenario appears to be more extenuated than the other. The critical point is that agencies of change also include actors that are perceived as passive and benign. History when revisited shows us that these contributors are no less influential in outcomes. Just because FIFA has a corrupt underbelly does not negate its relevance as a social justice actor.
All great rackets were once noble causes. FIFA's corrupt underbelly may produce desireable short-term outcomes but will not produce sustainable social justice.
[
How is anti-racism an "Euro-construct?"[/color]
Racism as is practiced in Europe today is a product of a certain strain of judeo christian thought. The concept of Anti-racism as it is conducted today may be rooted in egalitarianism but it is still dominated by European anthropological and liberal tradition.
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Zando, I am not reading objectivity in your view. I'm seeing that you have allowed the bone-you- have-to-pick with FIFA to comfort you with a blinkered or blindfolded perspective such that nothing appetizing can emanate from Zurich. So while you've rejected FIFA's flavour of Kool-Aid, it seems you have consumed a radical neo-liberal ideological diet. Heed these words: consumption of poison is harmful regardless of location ingested.
Now, inserting Jack Warner into this discussion is relevant how? That line of reasoning smacks ... actually stings ... of elasticity.
You did that here:
Why dosen't FIFA expend more resources on developing domestic leagues so a greater number athletes can earn a decent living from local sports, instead of supporting the current star system where talent is immediately whisked away to Europe?IMO FIFA's anti-racism 'work' serves mostly to grease the passage of non-whites into euro football so astronomical sums of money pass hands and feed the monopoly. And men like Jack and Sepp.
I have read that over and over again. Sounds like a stretch to me.
And, you also indulged in it during the appropriately described "distant analogy" which seemed constructed purely to 'reach' inserting Mr. Warner into the discourse. I recognize he's a convenient target, but mere reliance on his name compromises rather than bolster your assertions. Jack Warner's allegedly nefarious exploits and FIFA's Say No to Racism campaign are about as linked as three dogs in heat.
And you did it here:
... and all the 'anti-racism' and programs FIFA running cyah make up for ruining football in my country.
Seductive on the surface, corrosive at the core. Yes, dahis you manufacturing yuh own blend of Kool-Aid there. FIFA ruined football in T&T? Was it FIFA or is it passivity? Either way, you bitter so no anti-racism effort?
No such things as a free ride.
I think what you mean is there's no such thing as a free lunch. After having injected economic theory into the argument, I'm disheartened that you've discarded a pillar within that body of observed behaviour, merely by proclamation.
We come to this:
All great rackets were once noble causes. FIFA's corrupt underbelly may produce desireable short-term outcomes but will not produce sustainable social justice.
...
Racism as is practiced in Europe today is a product of a certain strain of judeo christian thought. The concept of Anti-racism as it is conducted today may be rooted in egalitarianism but it is still dominated by European anthropological and liberal tradition.
When I asked for an explanation of anti-racism as an Euro-construct, I was afraid this would be your destination. I cyah tell yuh how worrisome it is. Laventille bunning down buh dey send ah truckload ah Indian firemen ... better leh de place bun oui.
And, of course, FIFA as I stated is not the final arbiter of social change or justice. The charge that their efforts will not produce sustainable social justice carries some water. In participating in the project and prodding consciences and initiatives, FIFA takes us to the activities suggested by Sammy and Kicker ... personal commitment, action and responsibility. Why bash them for being a watchdog in their sphere of influence? If indeed FIFA is a Hydra, there's more danger in chopping off the "good head" of social and cultural involvement than in leaving it in place because from Greek mythology we know that for every head chopped two more grew.
You paint the movement of African footballers to Europe as a sort of new plantation (see first quote above). You're quite the cynic. FIFA is involved in the anti-racism effort because having a bunch of racist bastards in the stands will put a chilling effect on African ballers interested in playing in Europe and FIFA will lose out. Let's retrace our steps to behavioral economic theory. Yuh really think folks who are drowning in attempts to reach Europe will be daunted by a banana if given the opportunity to earn $$$? Mexican migrant workers lined up every day outside Home Depot even as their detractors hurled shit at them.
The world is not a perfect place. Good done in an imperfect society is no less good. Bad acts in a perfect society are impossible.
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:o
men synaptic wiring on full firing in dis thread dred :beermug:
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We all have to do work everywhere because racism is everywhere.
People should start in their own homes before they look elsewhere. Over 1 million indians in T&T, but where are they on the pitch? :o
Americans.....No blacks played on your team last weekend against Italy.
This thread was actually going good till you put finger to keyboard.
1 million indians in Trinidad soldier? Even if you count all the dougla and haf-breed walking bout the place, I still doh think yuh anywhere near 1 mil.
Meh boy, if the conversation above yuh intellectual capacity, best to stay out, read through the thread and try to absorb something from the convo.
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We all have to do work everywhere because racism is everywhere.
People should start in their own homes before they look elsewhere. Over 1 million indians in T&T, but where are they on the pitch? :o
Americans.....No blacks played on your team last weekend against Italy.
This thread was actually going good till you put finger to keyboard.
1 million indians in Trinidad soldier? Even if you count all the dougla and haf-breed walking bout the place, I still doh think yuh anywhere near 1 mil.
Meh boy, if the conversation above yuh intellectual capacity, best to stay out, read through the thread and try to absorb something from the convo.
what the confused youth was probably trying to say is T&T need to focus on stamping out racism in our own country before we start talking about FIFA politics and their campaign.
he has a point but i don't know where he getting 1 million indians, he probably referring to a village in india :D
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Uefa charges Sergio Busquets over racism claim
Uefa has launched a disciplinary case against Barcelona's Sergio Busquets over alleged racism in the Champions League semi-final with Real Madrid.
Real posted a video on their website before the second leg showing Busquets allegedly calling full-back Marcelo "mono" (monkey) in the first leg.
The case will be heard on Sunday with a decision due the next day.
(continue) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13381508.stm)
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Unicef will be proud.
I wonder if Eto ever get that from his team mates?
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http://www.youtube.com/v/xP4vScdWQnU
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Whether he actually said that or not, it's obvious that Busquets is classless.
What he needs to do is to act a little more maturely. Stop all the faggit shit he does and play football.
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Busquets cleared to play for Barcelona in Wembley final
Barcelona midfielder Sergio Busquets can play in the Champions League final against Manchester United after being cleared of racial abuse. Uefa has dismissed claims by Barca's Spanish rivals Real Madrid that Busquets racially insulted full-back Marcelo during their semi-final tie.
A statement on Barca's website read: "Uefa has rejected the complaint filed by Real Madrid." Busquets is now free to line up against United at Wembley on Saturday 28 May.
(continue) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13411117.stm)
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Whether he actually said that or not, it's obvious that Busquets is classless.
What he needs to do is to act a little more maturely. Stop all the faggit shit he does and play football.
:applause: :beermug:
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Whether he actually said that or not, it's obvious that Busquets is classless.
What he needs to do is to act a little more maturely. Stop all the faggit shit he does and play football.
As a Barca fan I have to agree . He sickening.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2053972/John-Terry-set-face-evidence-3-QPR-players.html#ixzz1bwKN78SN
EXCLUSIVE: Race row deepens for Terry as three QPR players give evidence backing Ferdinand
By MATT LAWTON and SAMI MOKBEL
John Terry will be confronted by evidence from three QPR players who have backed Anton Ferdinand in the FAs race row inquiry.
Sportsmail understands that Clint Hill, Paddy Kenny and Shaun Derry have provided statements that point to a serious flaw in Terrys version of events at Loftus Road on Sunday.
Ferdinand was baffled by the statement the England and Chelsea captain issued on Sunday night, particularly his claim that YouTube footage showed him responding to an accusation from Ferdinand that Terry had just called him a black ****.
Kenny, Derry and Hill an active players union representative question whether any such exchange took place, given that Ferdinand had no knowledge of a racial element to what was said until after the game.
Terry does not deny that the video shows him using the phrase black **** but argues that it was said in the context of Ferdinands accusation an accusation Ferdinand and his team-mates will say was never made.
Terry strenuously denies any accusation of racism and has said he welcomes the FA inquiry. He is eager to clear his name amid fears that he could lose the England captaincy for a second time, as well as the armband at Chelsea.
Support: Shaun Derry is one of three QPR players to have backed up Ferdinand's version of events
He has tried to contact both Anton and Rio Ferdinand to resolve the situation.
But both brothers have refused to take Terrys calls, further underlining the fact that contrary to Terrys claim Anton Ferdinand does not consider the matter to be finished.
Quite the opposite, in fact, and Sportsmail can reveal that the Terry camp were told as much before releasing their statement on Sunday night. They were informed things were not cool between the two players.
Rio Ferdinands very obvious support for his brother the two spent Wednesday together at a commercial launch with Pele in Londons West End could have serious ramifications for Fabio Capello and his England squad.
Different views: Terry and Ferdinand have differing view about what happened
That is why the FAs disciplinary and governance unit, led by director Darren Bailey, are keen to complete their inquiry before Capello names his squad on November 5 for next months friendlies against Spain and Sweden.
That said, the FA have made it clear that Terry will be Capellos captain for the two games at Wembley should the inquiry remain ongoing.
FA disciplinary and governance officials have moved quickly, though. They were at QPRs west London training ground on Tuesday to take statements from the three players.
Getting his point across: Ferdinand is expected to submit his evidence on Friday
Manager Neil Warnock sat in on the interviews, as he did when Anton Ferdinand gave his evidence. Ferdinands final submission is not expected to be completed until Friday.
Terry is still hoping to secure the backing of Ashley Cole in a witness statement, as well as other members of the Chelsea dressing room.
On Wednesday night, however, there was a suggestion that this was not proving to be easy.
Communication breakdown: Rio Ferdinand is not taking England colleague Terry's calls
According to sources, there were very few witnesses to the conversation that took place with Ferdinand in the dressing room after the game. Only Florent Malouda and the Chelsea kit man were there in addition to Terry, Ferdinand and Cole.
Terry also remains the subject of a separate police investigation into the incident after officers responded to a complaint they received accusing the 30-year-old defender of making a racial slur at Ferdinand.
Witness: Terry is hoping on the support of Florent Malouda who was one of a few players who saw the exchange in the changing room
The Metropolitan Police said last night that they were still assessing the complaint from a member of the public against Terry.
At the same time the FA are also trying to reach a conclusion in their inquiry into Patrice Evras allegations of racial abuse against Luis Suarez.
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Wow!!
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no qpr players will be giving evidence, this article is bull
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yeah i read yesterday that the claims three players were giving evidence was crap and they were pissed their names were getting dragged into it.
Waiting to see what Anton says when he finally speaks
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Anton Ferdinand broke his silence for the first time since becoming embroiled in an alleged race row involving England and Chelsea captain John Terry, referring to the events of the past week as "crazy".
PA Photos
The incident involving Anton Ferdinand and John Terry is being investigated
Anton and Rio blank Terry
Ferdinand urged to speak out
Terry to keep England captaincy
FA to probe Terry incident
Terry 'saddened' by claims
Terry has since denied any wrongdoing, but the Football Association are investigating the claims, while the Metropolitan Police are also involved after receiving an anonymous complaint. Ferdinand, though, insists his mind is on football, with QPR heading to Tottenham this weekend, but concedes it has been an extraordinary time in his life.
"The last few days have been crazy," Ferdinand told the Daily Telegraph. "But I'm looking forward to Sunday's game and fully focused on football. Anyone who knows me will know that whatever's going on, football's always going to be my number one priority."
Ferdinand refused to talk about the moments surrounding the alleged incident. However, the QPR defender thanked his team-mates, as well as his peers at other clubs, for the support they have shown him.
"I'd like to thank players like [Blackburn's] Jason Roberts for the support they have given me. Not just professionals at other clubs but my team-mates at QPR. They've been fantastic for me. Having team-mates around you like I have is nice to feel, and nice to see," he said.
As part of their ongoing investigation, the FA will speak to both Ferdinand and Terry, while other QPR and Chelsea players could be called upon.
"Has it been the craziest week of my life? There's been other situations, but it's certainly up there. But these types of situations are what make you," said Ferdinand.
soccernet.com
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Comment on the Telegraph's website following the article below:
Terry has so far despite great efforts, failed in his ambition to join the rest of his family in prison.It is however a work in progress.
Matthew Norman: One can only marvel at just how wronged John Terry has been
Captain Marvel is the name of John Terrys biography, and no one could pick a fight with that title.
7:00AM BST 28 Oct 2011
Marvel at his captaincy of England? You could almost literally self-detonate with mystification, like one of those malevolent computers in a Fifties sci-fi D movie that blows itself up when fed a simple paradox it cannot resolve seconds before seizing control of the Pentagon missile system and launching a thermonuclear warhead at Minsk.
At this early stage of what will be a cunningly long, drawn-out Football Association investigation into the latest allegation of racist abuse the very first of its ilk since an eerily similar one involving Tottenhams Ledley King five years ago it behoves none of us to prejudge the outcome.
That said, I cannot resist the temptation to award Mr Terry the benefit of any doubt, and acclaim him the most relentlessly wronged character English football has known. False accusations have plagued him ever since he became a piece of furniture a stout oak hatstand, to be precise, with the turning circle of an oil tanker in the Chelsea defence.
A few days after 9/11, he was accused of drunkenly taunting American tourists about the attacks in a hotel bar. Where others might have sued for libel, he showed a mature forbearance beyond his years. In the intervening decade, this paradigm of yeoman dependability has seen his every innocent act wilfully misinterpreted.
In 2002, a pavement encounter with a nightclub bouncer, whose unrelated injuries a pathologist sourced to broken glass, led to the criminal charges of which his peers acquitted him. Later, his generosity in inviting a female fan to join him on the back seat of his Bentley while he signed her match programme was also misconstrued. The chivalric instincts of an Arthurian knight prevented him asking her to endure the elements for as long as it took him to unsheathe his pen. :rotfl:
That didnt stop malign tongues from wagging, as they would wag again over the girlfriend of then best friend Wayne Bridge. On reflection, the Camelot reference does him a disservice. Sir Lancelot actually did cuckold Arthur.
Thankfully, Terry has always had an elite corps of defenders, of whom his present Chelsea manager is the latest. In dedicating Tuesdays League Cup win to his captain, Andre Villas-Boas struck a beautifully-judged tone of anti-siege mentality non-paranoia worthy of Jose Mourinho himself.
Others to join AVB and me in seeing only the best in him include no less acute a judge of men than Steve McClaren, who on appointing him to his first stint as England captain declared: Im certain Ive got the right man in John Terry.
So said all of us back then, as we did again in March when Fabio Capello against whom Mr Terry was mistakenly suspected of launching a one-man mutiny during last summers World Cup reappointed him to the post from which he had so rashly removed him the previous spring.
For one tremendously successful England coach to make a mistake would be unfortunate. Two is simply unimaginable. The reason Old Beetroot Face and Don Fabio came to the same correct conclusion about John Terry is respect for his resilience. He has born so many viscous, ill-founded attacks without letting them affect his game.
Admittedly, he did go AWOL for about 88 minutes of last summers cataclysmic 4-1 defeat to Germany. But no more than being than the only player to slip while taking a penalty in the 2008 Champions League final shoot-out was that a sign of him being a habitual big game choker.
It was a warm day in Bloemfontein, and when an admirer offered him a sun lounger, the Racing Post and a Solero on the touchline, typically he was too gallant to refuse.
Don Fabio is sticking by his skipper, and so must we all because the truly marvellous thing about his captaincy of England isnt that it survives all the socalled evidence that he may be mildly unsuited to life as a role model.
It is that this Churchillian bulldog of a natural born leader is willing to continue performing the part on behalf of a country that treats him with such inexplicable disdain. Honestly, we do not deserve him.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/8853809/Matthew-Norman-one-can-only-marvel-at-just-how-wronged-John-Terry-has-been.html#disqus_thread
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So what is the moral of the story...yuh could call a man a C&^! once you don't put the word black infront of it?
:rotfl:
Now this baffling me... the Football Association are investigating the claims, while the Metropolitan Police are also involved after receiving an anonymous complaint.
As well as...given that Ferdinand had no knowledge of a racial element to what was said until after the game
So Ferdinand didn't hear....he bepsy and chupid....or he accustommed getting called a C*&! and now looking to restore a lil machismo. Or is some partner chain him up after and say...whey boy you taking that he call yuh a black c@^! dry so and you taking dat.
I not defending Terry...it is obscene language and down here a chargable offense. But yuh must look at the context of how ting does happen. Men does cuss reff on TV normal normal and it doh be no scene and other players. To me cussin on a field is normal behaviour.
But really is only cause Terry do it...any other player and nuttin woulda be heard.
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Doh study Anton Ferdinand. He is ah imps too,just like John Terry. He is not even black, he is mixed race. Some people only want to be black when it suits dem and other people does be quick to throw out the race card when in truth it does not apply. For instance a Scotsman was telling me the English are racist to Scottish people. That is like a Nigerian calling a Ghanaian a racist. All of dem is the same thing, they just discriminate and hate each other because of their rivalry with each other.
Ashley Cole is ah next imps. He was right dey when JT call Anton a black so and so, just look at the video. Them is the same black/mixed race footballers who experience racism and talk about their experiences. they are even part of the kick it out campaign. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2004/nov/27/sport.comment1
It is really hard to believe that not a single Chelsea player heard what was said.When yuh play football in England yuh does hear racist remarks all the time being made, after all black people are foreigners and not indigenous to the country. I don't like the way JT call out the Anton but if a man call yuh out respond the same time and give him a taste of his own medicine.
Why do black people feel inferior when they are called names as opposed to the white man.
After all if you call a white man a white so and so will he fell inferior in any way at all?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
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Nah hoss, if in truth and fact daiz wha Terry say, i cyah really endorse that... cussing ah man is one thing, but when yuh throw in black yuh making ah derogatory term in reference to ah person's race, and i man cyah condone that kinda behavior..
Terry like he does have to make at least one asshole move per season. I hope this doh throw Chelsea off balance.
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It go throw yuh orf for tomorrow...I tell yuh already Arsenal winning 1-0
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people are saying that he said said "Blind c**t" which I could believe. Anton Ferdinand on the cross ball jump into Terry and hit him a blatant elbow to the side of the head, then Ferdinand ran into Terry and knocked him with a shoulder. They exchanged words and Terry ran off turned around and shouted the supposedly racist comment. The line man was calling the center ref to talk to him. I belive Terry was cussing out the ref for not seeing the hits. I could be wrong, I most likely may be wrong. Just another take on the situation. What's even mind boggling is that there were so many players and the ref in the vicinity to hear Terry, so someone should have spoken up by now. even Anelka was right there. :-\
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^^^^ You think if Anelka heard Terry made any racist comments he will come forward and say so (throwing his teammate under the bus)? He may say something to him "in-house" if he didn't like what was said. It's surprizing the QPR teammates didn't step up and state what was said, that's IF Terry really made those remarks.
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Doh study Anton Ferdinand. He is ah imps too,just like John Terry. He is not even black, he is mixed race. Some people only want to be black when it suits dem and other people does be quick to throw out the race card when in truth it does not apply. For instance a Scotsman was telling me the English are racist to Scottish people. That is like a Nigerian calling a Ghanaian a racist. All of dem is the same thing, they just discriminate and hate each other because of their rivalry with each other.
Ashley Cole is ah next imps. He was right dey when JT call Anton a black so and so, just look at the video. Them is the same black/mixed race footballers who experience racism and talk about their experiences. they are even part of the kick it out campaign. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2004/nov/27/sport.comment1
It is really hard to believe that not a single Chelsea player heard what was said.When yuh play football in England yuh does hear racist remarks all the time being made, after all black people are foreigners and not indigenous to the country. I don't like the way JT call out the Anton but if a man call yuh out respond the same time and give him a taste of his own medicine.
Why do black people feel inferior when they are called names as opposed to the white man.
After all if you call a white man a white so and so will he fell inferior in any way at all?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
1. As far as the Scots and the English ... the discrimination there is not racist. Same as the Nigerian and Ghanaian example you provided. Unfortunately, people use 'racism' to describe situations in which race is not a factor.
2. With respect to the black/mixed race comment ... that goes to a matter of identity and self-identification. It's really not up to you to determine per se whether he is black or not or black enough. Race is more than a construct of phenotype. On a level, yuh doing a disservice to Rastafari by espousing the opinion you have advanced.
3. As to your final question ... what are you seeking justification? Just because someone raises the issue of the impropriety of a term does not signify that he or she feels inferior. That stated, individual responses (black or white) are influenced by a host of factors that don't necessarily bear appropriate meaning for any entire group of people.
What's the difference between internalizing hate and externalizing hate?
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Doh study Anton Ferdinand. He is ah imps too,just like John Terry. He is not even black, he is mixed race. Some people only want to be black when it suits dem and other people does be quick to throw out the race card when in truth it does not apply. For instance a Scotsman was telling me the English are racist to Scottish people. That is like a Nigerian calling a Ghanaian a racist. All of dem is the same thing, they just discriminate and hate each other because of their rivalry with each other.
Ashley Cole is ah next imps. He was right dey when JT call Anton a black so and so, just look at the video. Them is the same black/mixed race footballers who experience racism and talk about their experiences. they are even part of the kick it out campaign. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2004/nov/27/sport.comment1
It is really hard to believe that not a single Chelsea player heard what was said.When yuh play football in England yuh does hear racist remarks all the time being made, after all black people are foreigners and not indigenous to the country. I don't like the way JT call out the Anton but if a man call yuh out respond the same time and give him a taste of his own medicine.
Why do black people feel inferior when they are called names as opposed to the white man.
After all if you call a white man a white so and so will he fell inferior in any way at all?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
1. As far as the Scots and the English ... the discrimination there is not racist. Same as the Nigerian and Ghanaian example you provided. Unfortunately, people use 'racism' to describe situations in which race is not a factor.
2. With respect to the black/mixed race comment ... that goes to a matter of identity and self-identification. It's really not up to you to determine per se whether he is black or not or black enough. Race is more than a construct of phenotype. On a level, yuh doing a disservice to Rastafari by espousing the opinion you have advanced.
3. As to your final question ... what are you seeking justification? Just because someone raises the issue of the impropriety of a term does not signify that he or she feels inferior. That stated, individual responses (black or white) are influenced by a host of factors that don't necessarily bear appropriate meaning for any entire group of people.
What's the difference between internalizing hate and externalizing hate?
You have time to waste wid dis fackin knuckle head?? evry one who's ever had ah run in wid this rastafari guy knows he's walking on his head. move on asylum, it's definitely not worth the effort, yuh would be better off talking tuh ah def lizard.
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Just cool i never hail you out in my post. Yuh is ah imps or ah troll or wha?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
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Just cool i never hail you out in my post. Yuh is ah imps or ah troll or wha?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
The irony, imagine cussin ah man out and with the same breath blessing him, how interesting. :thinking:
anyways, you and i had it out already bro, and yuh not the most rational fella on the site. it was about the same race issue and yuh tried tuh trivialize it the same way yuh doing now.
yuh even said to me that yuhs ah red man and not necessarily black and yuh live in england blah blah blah. i just giving asylum ah heads up, that's all. BTW, i don't forget easily fella.
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What is yuh problem soldier? I said yuh is ah imps or ah troll or wha. I never cuss yuh and bless yuh.
You is the one cussing me and calling me ah facking knuckle head
My signature is:
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
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Terry is a imps, and his footballing ability is dwindling with his reputation too... All this race talk is just distracting folks from the fact that the guy isn't really a good footballer anymore - This season he is a step behind and struggling...Chelsea and England should be a grooming a replacement.
Rastafari you now come out of wha? Or yuh just lookin' fuh argument? Yuh post real theoretical and generalizing hoss...
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What is wrong with a theoretical and generalized post?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
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What is wrong with a theoretical and generalized post?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
Well in the real world every situation/scenario is different...
e.g. How does the "some people only want to be black when it suits dem" apply to A. Ferdinand?
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I see where you are coming from kicker. Anyway what i was trying to say is that Anton Ferdinand is a mixed race half black/half white fella and not really black.
I understand that if a fella feel he is black or white for that matter is up to him.
I can bet yuh if a black player call him a white so and so, he ain't go feel no way, trust me i does live in London and i understand dem fellas mentality.
Ian Wright call a Nigerian parking warden a monkey and the traffic warden call him a white man.
A lot of black people in foreign don't care about being black no more. Money is the new race. That means inheriting an inferiority complex with it.
Imagine that a black man calling another black man a monkey. This is the same Ian wright that diss Brent Sancho about his Dreadlocks when Peter Crouch pulled his locks in the world cup
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491245/Ex-footballer-Ian-Wright-race-row-African-traffic-warden.html
Look the video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPTwKhv4wGU
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Being called a white so & so eh de same ting...theoretically it is, but in reality it just isn't - That's why I say your post was too theoretical (and generalizing)...Because of the history of race, racism & social class dynamics and the effects that systemic, endemic and oppressive racism has had on certain racial groups, the historically marginalized races (e.g. blacks) receive derogatory comments about their skin color with a completely different degree of sensitivity and hurt compared to whites, who as a race have not been detrimentally subject to racial marginalization...I think that, as a generalization (with exceptions of course), is widely accepted and understood...Again denying it doh change what it is... That said, if a white person expressed feelings of hurt about being racially abused, who is me tuh tell him his feelings not justified?
Just like there's no perfectly acceptable logic to justify racism, the reactions to racism are on many levels also emotional, so yuh can't fully rationalize it like you're trying to do... and it hard tuh use one person's example to advocate or denounce someone else's situation, because like ah say.... everyone's situation and experience is different.
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What is wrong with a theoretical and generalized post?
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
Well in the real world every situation/scenario is different...
e.g. How does the "some people only want to be black when it suits dem" apply to A. Ferdinand?
I hear yuh kicker! Black people will always feel the effects of racism more than white people because of history and the way that black people have been treated and continue to be treated by the white man.
Bob Marley said ''until the colour of a man skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes me say war.''
What about black people like Ian Wright then. He was saying that not enough black managers are making it in the English game but then again he was being racist to a nigerian.
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
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I dunno about Ian Wright - quite a bit of what I hear about that soldier doh really give me confidence in his character.
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Asylumseeker thanks for posting
Being called a white so & so eh de same ting...theoretically it is, but in reality it just isn't - That's why I say your post was too theoretical (and generalizing)...Because of the history of race, racism & social class dynamics and the effects that systemic, endemic and oppressive racism has had on certain racial groups, the historically marginalized races (e.g. blacks) receive derogatory comments about their skin color with a completely different degree of sensitivity and hurt compared to whites, who as a race have not been detrimentally subject to racial marginalization...I think that, as a generalization (with exceptions of course), is widely accepted and understood...Again denying it doh change what it is... That said, if a white person expressed feelings of hurt about being racially abused, who is me tuh tell him his feelings not justified?
Just like there's no perfectly acceptable logic to justify racism, the reactions to racism are on many levels also emotional, so yuh can't fully rationalize it like you're trying to do... and it hard tuh use one person's example to advocate or denounce someone else's situation, because like ah say.... everyone's situation and experience is different.
Thanks for posting my thoughts!!!
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Being called a white so & so eh de same ting...theoretically it is, but in reality it just isn't - That's why I say your post was too theoretical (and generalizing)...Because of the history of race, racism & social class dynamics and the effects that systemic, endemic and oppressive racism has had on certain racial groups, the historically marginalized races (e.g. blacks) receive derogatory comments about their skin color with a completely different degree of sensitivity and hurt compared to whites, who as a race have not been detrimentally subject to racial marginalization...I think that, as a generalization (with exceptions of course), is widely accepted and understood...Again denying it doh change what it is... That said, if a white person expressed feelings of hurt about being racially abused, who is me tuh tell him his feelings not justified?
Just like there's no perfectly acceptable logic to justify racism, the reactions to racism are on many levels also emotional, so yuh can't fully rationalize it like you're trying to do... and it hard tuh use one person's example to advocate or denounce someone else's situation, because like ah say.... everyone's situation and experience is different.
:beermug: :thumbsup:
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Yes, Sepp Blatter is a clown... But hes dangerous with it. Kick him out
By James Slack
Under his tenure, FIFA has proved itself impossibly corrupt and totally detached from the needs of the football-watching public.
How else do we view the decision to award the 2022 World Cup to Qatar, a strict Arab state where temperatures can reach 50 degrees Celsius in the summer months?
In his latest controversy, Blatter has decided to share with the world his views on racist abuse on the field of play (an issue of great public interest, given the on-going investigations into England captain John Terry and the Liverpool forward Luis Suarez).
Asked whether he thought racism on the pitch was a problem, Blatter told CNN World Sport: I would deny it. There is no racism.
There is no racism [on the field], but maybe there is a word or gesture that is not correct.
Later, after claiming his comments had been misunderstood, he carried on digging his hole.
There is maybe one of the players towards another - he has a word or a gesture which is not the correct one.
But the one who is affected by that, he should say 'this is a game'. We are in a game, and at the end of the game, we shake hands, and this can happen, because we have worked so hard against racism and discrimination.
His logic - and I find it extremely hard to apply such a word to the nonsense he so regularly spouts - seems to be along the lines of: what happens on the pitch, stays on the pitch. Shake hands and get on with it.
This is a maxim which can arguably be applied to the physical aspects of the game (but, and I stress this at the earliest moment, those alone).
In my day, I was a less than cultured, somewhat old-fashioned centre-back. I pulled shirts, kicked ankles, stood on toes, made the first tackle count etc. Inevitably, and deservedly, I got plenty of physical stick back. That sort of stuff does 'stay on the pitch'. I always shook hands at the end, and was never refused. When the whistle blew, all was done and dusted.
But the idea that Blatter should consider the trading of racist insults in the same way as the physical rough and tumble of the game is abhorrent and stupid beyond words.
Racism is not 'part of the game', or any other aspect of life for that matter, and giving even a hint that such behaviour is acceptable will only worsen a problem which, for all the dogged work of football's anti-racism campaigns, remains all too prevalent in some places.
Most importantly, what message is Blatter sending to spectators?
Do they argue: 'Yeah, we were hurling abuse, but we wouldn't do it outside the ground. We'd shake his hand. All part of the game. Didn't you hear the FIFA president say so?'
Some may be tempted to view Blatter as a buffoon. A man whose foot is never far from his mouth, and whose views are safely ignored.
But the fact is that he is the bureaucrat in charge of the biggest, best loved and most powerful sport in the world.
His demented ravings have the capacity to do great harm and should not be casually dismissed. Rather, the man himself should be removed from office - and fast.
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Good article, but Mr Slack - being a strict muslim state should not preclude you from hosting a World Cup.
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Putting this aside as the English are on their own personal anti-Blatter campaign in revenge for not getting 2022!
Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
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Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
Man, its only because JW put his support behind the wrong guy...Sepp don't care who is in TTFF or who was involved....
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Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
Man, its only because JW put his support behind the wrong guy...Sepp don't care who is in TTFF or who was involved....
Dat being said he still bust Jack throat so oh joy.
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Putting this aside as the English are on their own personal anti-Blatter campaign in revenge for not getting 2022!
Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
That must be one of the saddest posts I have seen on this board.
Anybody that has anykind of feeling for the game can't want him anywhere near, the fact he has done something to your liking is exactly why he does things, to his own liking and benefit. Maybe you will end up with someone as equally as bad because of Blatter. He had umpteen opportunities to rid you of that particular nuisance and never did for his own reasons, so odes it make you feel better he helped the suffering last so long. Aye Big Up to him.
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Putting this aside as the English are on their own personal anti-Blatter campaign in revenge for not getting 2022!
Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
That must be one of the saddest posts I have seen on this board.
Anybody that has anykind of feeling for the game can't want him anywhere near, the fact he has done something to your liking is exactly why he does things, to his own liking and benefit. Maybe you will end up with someone as equally as bad because of Blatter. He had umpteen opportunities to rid you of that particular nuisance and never did for his own reasons, so odes it make you feel better he helped the suffering last so long. Aye Big Up to him.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
and now we have ah character called watson who by many account is as selfish, incompetent ah scoundrel himself............. so what is there really to celebrate .............that Ali Baba get replaced by a Lieutenant steups
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Putting this aside as the English are on their own personal anti-Blatter campaign in revenge for not getting 2022!
Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
That must be one of the saddest posts I have seen on this board.
Anybody that has anykind of feeling for the game can't want him anywhere near, the fact he has done something to your liking is exactly why he does things, to his own liking and benefit. Maybe you will end up with someone as equally as bad because of Blatter. He had umpteen opportunities to rid you of that particular nuisance and never did for his own reasons, so odes it make you feel better he helped the suffering last so long. Aye Big Up to him.
Hey Kev dont get me wrong, I said for NOW followed by a devil emotion! :devil:
That is just a subtle way to say that I know Sepp is a Devil himself but is temporarily doing something that could help release T&T football from tyranny! You don't realise what we T&T football fans have had to endure from our football federation over the years!
Recently however we have been able to get rid of Jack Warner and more recently Jack's puppet Oliver Camps all due to the vengeance of Sepp!
If Sepp can continue his witch hunting of all Jack's buddies and influences in CONCACAF and in particular help get rid of folks in the TTFF who have helped to retard and suck T&T football dry over the years then he is unintentionally doing something that is beneficial to our football as I honestly thought we would have been stuck with some of these fellas in charge of our football until they died on the job!
The job is not yet over but at least some heads have fallen! Folks in T&T also have to do their bit via the clubs and the regional associations having the concern and care about our football to vote the rest of these T&T football bood-suckers out of office come the TTFF elections!
This does not mean that I think Sepp is an angel but for NOW he has indirectly helped T&T football as a result of his witch hunt on Jacks buddies in an effort to APPEAR like he is trying to stamp out corruption in FIFA and for that I am thankful!
With Sepp I am fully aware of the devil I am dealing with but he has served a temporary positive role in this matter regards helping us to overhaul the TTFF from my prespective! :beermug:
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Putting this aside as the English are on their own personal anti-Blatter campaign in revenge for not getting 2022!
Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
That must be one of the saddest posts I have seen on this board.
Anybody that has anykind of feeling for the game can't want him anywhere near, the fact he has done something to your liking is exactly why he does things, to his own liking and benefit. Maybe you will end up with someone as equally as bad because of Blatter. He had umpteen opportunities to rid you of that particular nuisance and never did for his own reasons, so odes it make you feel better he helped the suffering last so long. Aye Big Up to him.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
and now we have ah character called watson who by many account is as selfish, incompetent ah scoundrel himself............. so what is there really to celebrate .............that Ali Baba get replaced by a Lieutenant steups
Nah Watson eh no LT he is a Private whose strings are being pulled by General Jack. D fact that I eh seeing D Tie Tounge Tief on meh tv chatting bout yday and 2day is a miniscule victory but i go live wit dat. Many hear taught dat Sancho etal would not have been successful but they have far exceeded all expectations of many here. So hopefully in our lifetimes we would c d end of Watson etal.
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Putting this aside as the English are on their own personal anti-Blatter campaign in revenge for not getting 2022!
Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
That must be one of the saddest posts I have seen on this board.
Anybody that has anykind of feeling for the game can't want him anywhere near, the fact he has done something to your liking is exactly why he does things, to his own liking and benefit. Maybe you will end up with someone as equally as bad because of Blatter. He had umpteen opportunities to rid you of that particular nuisance and never did for his own reasons, so odes it make you feel better he helped the suffering last so long. Aye Big Up to him.
Hey Kev dont get me wrong, I said for NOW followed by a devil emotion! :devil:
That is just a subtle way to say that I know Sepp is a Devil himself but is temporarily doing something that could help release T&T football from tyranny! You don't realise what we T&T football fans have had to endure from our football federation over the years!
Recently however we have been able to get rid of Jack Warner and more recently Jack's puppet Oliver Camps all due to the vengeance of Sepp!
If Sepp can continue his witch hunting of all Jack's buddies and influences in CONCACAF and in particular help get rid of folks in the TTFF who have helped to retard and suck T&T football dry over the years then he is unintentionally doing something that is beneficial to our football as I honestly thought we would have been stuck with some of these fellas in charge of our football until they died on the job!
The job is not yet over but at least some heads have fallen! Folks in T&T also have to do their bit via the clubs and the regional associations having the concern and care about our football to vote the rest of these T&T football bood-suckers out of office come the TTFF elections!
This does not mean that I think Sepp is an angel but for NOW he has indirectly helped T&T football as a result of his witch hunt on Jacks buddies in an effort to APPEAR like he is trying to stamp out corruption in FIFA and for that I am thankful!
With Sepp I am fully aware of the devil I am dealing with but he has served a temporary positive role in this matter regards helping us to overhaul the TTFF from my prespective! :beermug:
Fair play I understood the sentiment, but disagreed with the shortsightedness. God Forbid but he will equally be as adept as manoeuvring in someone that will do his bidding as seeking vegence and that my friend is what you should really be worrying about. Because if he has anything to do with it, it won't be good for TnT.
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Putting this aside as the English are on their own personal anti-Blatter campaign in revenge for not getting 2022!
Right now Sepp is in my good books oui as he has some of them fellas in the TTFF worried about if their involvement in the Cash for Votes scandal will get them banned!
Camps resigned because of that worry and I would like to personally thank Sepp for that! :beermug:
Yuh have my support for now Sepp, keep up the witch hunt! :devil:
That must be one of the saddest posts I have seen on this board.
Anybody that has anykind of feeling for the game can't want him anywhere near, the fact he has done something to your liking is exactly why he does things, to his own liking and benefit. Maybe you will end up with someone as equally as bad because of Blatter. He had umpteen opportunities to rid you of that particular nuisance and never did for his own reasons, so odes it make you feel better he helped the suffering last so long. Aye Big Up to him.
Hey Kev don’t get me wrong, I said for NOW followed by a devil emotion! :devil:
That is just a subtle way to say that I know Sepp is a Devil himself but is temporarily doing something that could help release T&T football from tyranny! You don't realise what we T&T football fans have had to endure from our football federation over the years!
Recently however we have been able to get rid of Jack Warner and more recently Jack's puppet Oliver Camps all due to the vengeance of Sepp!
If Sepp can continue his witch hunting of all Jack's buddies and influences in CONCACAF and in particular help get rid of folks in the TTFF who have helped to retard and suck T&T football dry over the years then he is unintentionally doing something that is beneficial to our football as I honestly thought we would have been stuck with some of these fellas in charge of our football until they died on the job!
The job is not yet over but at least some heads have fallen! Folks in T&T also have to do their bit via the clubs and the regional associations having the concern and care about our football to vote the rest of these T&T football bood-suckers out of office come the TTFF elections!
This does not mean that I think Sepp is an angel but for NOW he has indirectly helped T&T football as a result of his witch hunt on Jack’s buddies in an effort to APPEAR like he is trying to stamp out corruption in FIFA and for that I am thankful!
With Sepp I am fully aware of the devil I am dealing with but he has served a temporary positive role in this matter regards helping us to overhaul the TTFF from my prespective! :beermug:
Fair play I understood the sentiment, but disagreed with the shortsightedness. God Forbid but he will equally be as adept as manoeuvring in someone that will do his bidding as seeking vegence and that my friend is what you should really be worrying about. Because if he has anything to do with it, it won't be good for TnT.
Yes, I know! He would happily punish T&T football in revenge for Jack's lack of loyalty!
Hopefully our Regional Associations put new honourably people in place come the next TTFF elections!
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I saw Beckham & Neil Warnock speaking about this issue. Warnock suggested that Blatter should have gone long ago and suggested that if every black player in the EPL and other top leagues all refuse to play on saturday unless Blatter resigns, that may be the only way to get rid of this fool.
Watvh out for Sepps next big strategy.....rapists should bake a cake for their victims to apologise.
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Hey Kev dont get me wrong, I said for NOW followed by a devil emotion! :devil:
That is just a subtle way to say that I know Sepp is a Devil himself but is temporarily doing something that could help release T&T football from tyranny! You don't realise what we T&T football fans have had to endure from our football federation over the years!
Recently however we have been able to get rid of Jack Warner and more recently Jack's puppet Oliver Camps all due to the vengeance of Sepp!
If Sepp can continue his witch hunting of all Jack's buddies and influences in CONCACAF and in particular help get rid of folks in the TTFF who have helped to retard and suck T&T football dry over the years then he is unintentionally doing something that is beneficial to our football as I honestly thought we would have been stuck with some of these fellas in charge of our football until they died on the job!
The job is not yet over but at least some heads have fallen! Folks in T&T also have to do their bit via the clubs and the regional associations having the concern and care about our football to vote the rest of these T&T football bood-suckers out of office come the TTFF elections!
This does not mean that I think Sepp is an angel but for NOW he has indirectly helped T&T football as a result of his witch hunt on Jacks buddies in an effort to APPEAR like he is trying to stamp out corruption in FIFA and for that I am thankful!
With Sepp I am fully aware of the devil I am dealing with but he has served a temporary positive role in this matter regards helping us to overhaul the TTFF from my prespective! :beermug:
Kev is absolutely right... it was a patently foolish way to state your point by "putting this issue aside" and palming it off as an English witch hunt against Blatter. The issue of racism in football is too important to be subsumed by yet another meaningless post on the current state of football in TnT. There are a million other threads where that is being discussed.
That said... very good article by Mr. Slack.
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I saw Beckham & Neil Warnock speaking about this issue. Warnock suggested that Blatter should have gone long ago and suggested that if every black player in the EPL and other top leagues all refuse to play on saturday unless Blatter resigns, that may be the only way to get rid of this fool.
Watvh out for Sepps next big strategy.....rapists should bake a cake for their victims to apologise.
Just saw the Warnock interview... he actually suggested that black players worldwide boycott international games (if it is that we want to get rid of Blatter). Extreme perhaps... but can't say that I disagree with it.
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I saw Beckham & Neil Warnock speaking about this issue. Warnock suggested that Blatter should have gone long ago and suggested that if every black player in the EPL and other top leagues all refuse to play on saturday unless Blatter resigns, that may be the only way to get rid of this fool.
Watvh out for Sepps next big strategy.....rapists should bake a cake for their victims to apologise.
Just saw the Warnock interview... he actually suggested that black players worldwide boycott international games (if it is that we want to get rid of Blatter). Extreme perhaps... but can't say that I disagree with it.
Sorry, I knew it was something like that. Of course, the politically correct amongst us would spot the racism in Warnocks remarks....apparently, racism only applies to black people....no Asians etc? But this is a serious point, its very difficult these days to be non racist, even if you are. I'm sure Warnock doesn't believe its only black people who are targeted racially, but its easy to see how another group could be offended (even if only to attract attention to their cause.)
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I was telling everyone Blatter was a twat back after the Henry incident in 2009 but people just ignored it.
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Sorry, I knew it was something like that. Of course, the politically correct amongst us would spot the racism in Warnocks remarks....apparently, racism only applies to black people....no Asians etc? But this is a serious point, its very difficult these days to be non racist, even if you are. I'm sure Warnock doesn't believe its only black people who are targeted racially, but its easy to see how another group could be offended (even if only to attract attention to their cause.)
Personally I see nothing wrong with his statements... blacks form the largest minority group in international football and by far are the ones most targeted by racism. So, I understand Warnock's point, but agree he could have done better IF he really wanted to be politically correct.
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Fenwick says no racism in Pro League.
By: Shaun Fuentes.
Former England international Terry Fenwick says he never had any major racism problems as head coach of San Juan Jabloteh in the T&T Pro League.
The league itself has never had cause to launch any campaigns to kick racism out with the majority of players and officials being of African origin with some players from South America while there are match officials of East Indian origin.
Thank God Im the only white guy in the Pro League so theres not much reason for racial abuse, Fenwick laughed. But seriously, it was a bit tough in my early days as a coach but thankfully Ive never had any major incidents on that level.
People would say what they have to and they would probably refer to you as white boy or white man but I dont think its ever come across as racial abuse. I havent seen anything like this except for maybe once or twice in the twelve years Ive been here. I dont think Trinidadians are generally of that nature.
As to whether he thinks the League should still launch campaigns similar to that of Kick Racism out of Football, Fenwick replied: Well it could be a bit of a tricky situation.
I know that there are several match officials in the Pro league who are East Indians and we first need to decide whether we need to launch such a campaign as it relates to football or otherwise.
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I used to get called white man too on occasion, no big deal.
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Yuh cant kick out racist fans if yuh have no fans.
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i remember being called a racist in a match against vessigny cuz we were pressing dem and fella fake an injury to kill time and i shouted to roll his ass off de pitch..Hector self said to me "wam whiteboy we is pple yuh kno, yuh racist blah blah" someting and cuss me. Fellas who were on the team with me still laugh at it.
Get called a white c**nt nuff times in Ptown and in Rio Claro in an U16 match was told "we doh like white pple in Rio", not by de players but by random fans. Funny part was all the pipers in Ptown as soon as they heard i was eligible to play the next year and was deciding if to repeat at pres or ptown bounce me up at a match and telling me how much i go "like myself in ptown"
But never got told shit on de field by players really. Figure cuz i was the only white fella playing in the south zone at the time it wudda jus look like they advantaging me ;D
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Technically being called a white c*nt (or black c*nt for that matter) is not racist... The offensive part about that is being called a c*nt.
The fact that being called a black c*nt would widely be considered racist tells says alot.
Racism is alot deeper than mere words or insults involving a skin color reference.
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No racism in the Pro League is, as they say, a "no brainer". The players and staff are 99.9% black. To say there is no racism in football is another matter. Old stereotypes die hard, and the ideas that Indians can't play football (only cricket), and "it eh hah no good Chinee" linger. The potential elite players of these groups disappear almost before they are seen. Yes, there are socio-economic reasons for their disappearance - essentially after an SSFL career - but how many talented "non-black" players make it into a national team? Let's think deeper on the issue.
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Technically being called a white c*nt (or black c*nt for that matter) is not racist... The offensive part about that is being called a c*nt.
The fact that being called a black c*nt would widely be considered racist tells says alot.
Racism is alot deeper than mere words or insults involving a skin color reference.
I agree with yuh kicker.When i said that people jump on my case. I was writing about the incident between John Terry and Anton Ferdinand.
JAH BLESS
RASTAFARI
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No racism in the Pro League is, as they say, a "no brainer". The players and staff are 99.9% black. To say there is no racism in football is another matter. Old stereotypes die hard, and the ideas that Indians can't play football (only cricket), and "it eh hah no good Chinee" linger. The potential elite players of these groups disappear almost before they are seen. Yes, there are socio-economic reasons for their disappearance - essentially after an SSFL career - but how many talented "non-black" players make it into a national team? Let's think deeper on the issue.
We beat up this issue already . Read your own statement 99 percent of our players are black.
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Technically being called a white c*nt (or black c*nt for that matter) is not racist... The offensive part about that is being called a c*nt.
The fact that being called a black c*nt would widely be considered racist tells says alot.
Racism is alot deeper than mere words or insults involving a skin color reference.
Kicker, yuh on yuh apologist nonsense yet again? You lost me at "technically".
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Technically being called a white c*nt (or black c*nt for that matter) is not racist... The offensive part about that is being called a c*nt.
The fact that being called a black c*nt would widely be considered racist tells says alot.
Racism is alot deeper than mere words or insults involving a skin color reference.
Racism is nothing to get "technical" about, racism is about how you treat people, period... and how you address people is a critical component of how you treat them. To say that the only offensive part of the "black c**t" statement is being called a "c**t" is both silly and disingenuous. Language is dynamic and meaning changes with context. For this reason "technical" or literal interpretation isn't always the best or most accurate approach. While it is true that in most contexts the word "black" itself wouldn't be offensive, when it is used as an insult (or component thereof) it absolutely becomes offensive.
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Technically being called a white c*nt (or black c*nt for that matter) is not racist... The offensive part about that is being called a c*nt.
The fact that being called a black c*nt would widely be considered racist tells says alot.
Racism is alot deeper than mere words or insults involving a skin color reference.
Kicker, yuh on yuh apologist nonsense yet again? You lost me at "technically".
:rotfl: :rotfl:
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Technically being called a white c*nt (or black c*nt for that matter) is not racist... The offensive part about that is being called a c*nt.
The fact that being called a black c*nt would widely be considered racist tells says alot.
Racism is alot deeper than mere words or insults involving a skin color reference.
Racism is nothing to get "technical" about, racism is about how you treat people, period... and how you address people is a critical component of how you treat them. To say that the only offensive part of the "black c**t" statement is being called a "c**t" is both silly and disingenuous. Language is dynamic and meaning changes with context. For this reason "technical" or literal interpretation isn't always the best or most accurate approach. While it is true that in most contexts the word "black" itself wouldn't be offensive, when it is used as an insult (or component thereof) it absolutely becomes offensive.
Well Bakes papa Trinbago people is serious racist. Just how we address & greet people alone ;D
We as a peoples have always been politically incorrect & to outsiders, jaw dropping racist in terms of what comes out our mouth :rotfl:
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Well Bakes papa Trinbago people is serious racist. Just how we address & greet people alone ;D
We as a peoples have always been politically incorrect & to outsiders, jaw dropping racist in terms of what comes out our mouth :rotfl:
The overarching framework of the conversation is that the communication is taking place between members of different races, white and black in the Terry situation. I can't speak for your experience, but from mine the only time I have heard people calling each other "black" so and so have been Afro Trinis among themselves. Obviously this isn't racism. If you have examples of Indo-Trinis or members of other races calling Afro-Trinis "black" so and sos, then I'd have to stand corrected.
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Fenwick has supposedly applied for the Colorado Rapids job. I think the MLS would be a good challenge for him, but considering what he's done in the Pro League with the limited resources and sub-standard facilities and infrastructure, he could do well.
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Technically being called a white c*nt (or black c*nt for that matter) is not racist... The offensive part about that is being called a c*nt.
The fact that being called a black c*nt would widely be considered racist tells says alot.
Racism is alot deeper than mere words or insults involving a skin color reference.
Racism is nothing to get "technical" about, racism is about how you treat people, period... and how you address people is a critical component of how you treat them. To say that the only offensive part of the "black c**t" statement is being called a "c**t" is both silly and disingenuous. Language is dynamic and meaning changes with context. For this reason "technical" or literal interpretation isn't always the best or most accurate approach. While it is true that in most contexts the word "black" itself wouldn't be offensive, when it is used as an insult (or component thereof) it absolutely becomes offensive.
That's exactly my point.
Posters before me, in describing their experiences, seemed to be implying that being a called a white c*nt and a black c*nt are comparable. I was saying technically it is (or should be), but in reality it isn't... at least not in my opinion.
hence the reason I said racism is more (deeper) than just insults coupled with reference to a skin color.
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Kicker, yuh on yuh apologist nonsense yet again? You lost me at "technically".
apologist? what? I dunno what you even referring to.
If yuh that lost, trying reading more slowly.
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Kicker, yuh on yuh apologist nonsense yet again? You lost me at "technically".
apologist? what? I dunno what you even referring to.
If yuh that lost, trying reading more slowly.
Read slowly or quickly it's the same bullshit.
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That's exactly my point.
Posters before me, in describing their experiences, seemed to be implying that being a called a white c*nt and a black c*nt are comparable. I was saying technically it is (or should be), but in reality it isn't... at least not in my opinion.
hence the reason I said racism is more (deeper) than just insults coupled with reference to a skin color.
With a closer reading I understand (even if I still don't entirely agree with) your point... but things kinda get derailed by the opening sentence. I think it detracts from your larger point.
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Yow, there were only 4 posters before kicker. One was Flex who merely posted the subject article ... the content of which didn't address any differential implications or comparisons related to "being a called a white c*nt and a black c*nt". Similarly, neither did the following posters Worm and Ryan. That leaves NYTWB ... his contribution expressed his experience ... therein there is also not even remotely a comparative notion in NYTWB's post.
What the heck is Kicker talking about?
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Yow, there were only 4 posters before kicker. One was Flex who merely posted the subject article ... the content of which didn't address any differential implications or comparisons related to "being a called a white c*nt and a black c*nt". Similarly, neither did the following posters Worm and Ryan. That leaves NYTWB ... his contribution expressed his experience ... therein there is also not even remotely a comparative notion in NYTWB's post.
What the heck is Kicker talking about?
Yeah I was talking about NYTWB and to some extent theworm... I know the point of their posts was not to compare the two - I wasn't directly responding to them, hence the reason I didn't quote them... but in my opinion it was somewhat implicit even if unintentional (given the recent events of racism in football - in particular J.Terry's scenario, the point they were making and most importantly if you know what implicit means)...so I put in a 2cents
Either way I think I clarified what I was trying to say, in response to Bakes and it's not "bullsh*t" unless you just looking for talk. You can agree, you can disagree or you can occupy yourself with whether or not it was an appropriate response to the posters above, and ask "what the heck" and throw irrelevant and inaccurate insults about being "apologist again" to your heart's delight - it adds nothing to the larger discussion about racism in football....again, you just lookin' fuh talk.
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Curiously, on issues invoking race you almost always seem to be misunderstood. Generally, the "misunderstandings" stream from your frequently reductive assessments. What's that the product of? Miscegenated matrimony?
Yeah, implicitly you're an apologist (and that's not an insult ... it is what it is). Explicitly, it would be helpful to recognise it for what it is.
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Curiously, on issues invoking race you almost always seem to be misunderstood. Generally, the "misunderstandings" stream from your frequently reductive assessments. What's that the product of? Miscegenated matrimony?
Yeah, implicitly you're an apologist (and that's not an insult ... it is what it is). Explicitly, it would be helpful to recognise it for what it is.
That is an unnecessary cheap shot... seriously, disagreement on a messageboard is one thing but you way outta line with the personal comments.
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I appreciate your position ... and I think it's an understandably enthusiastic and perhaps even duly-considered one. However, let me say ... that condition is not "personal" to Kicker ... and others so conditioned are not nearly as cavalier or reductive in their assessments. Indeed, they may even be less predisposed to say ... having an obscene notion of a hierarchy of acceptability/comparability between being called a white c**t or a black c**t.
There is a vacuous nature to Kicker's treatment of these issues that is surprisingly contemptible, even if benign in intent.
I'll leave it there.
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Curiously, on issues invoking race you almost always seem to be misunderstood. Generally, the "misunderstandings" stream from your frequently reductive assessments. What's that the product of? Miscegenated matrimony?
Yeah, implicitly you're an apologist (and that's not an insult ... it is what it is). Explicitly, it would be helpful to recognise it for what it is.
You talking a big load of crap. First of all I am not "always misunderstood" on topics of race. This is the first time to my recollection and that's because I tried to summarize in possibly too few words (and with a debatable choice of word in "technically")
reductive statements a result of miscegenated matrimony? You're asking me if I simplify opinions on race because I'm involved in an interracial marriage? or the product of an interracial marriage? ....If so, then that deductive reasoning on your part is inherently reductive if you ask me... so question yuhself!
Lastly I'm not any apologist implicitly or explicitly - my post was not meant to justify anything, or apologize for anything. Like I said, read more slowly. If that doesn't help, just pick yuh battles and leave this one alone.
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With a closer reading I understand (even if I still don't entirely agree with) your point... but things kinda get derailed by the opening sentence. I think it detracts from your larger point.
Literally would have probably been a better choice of word than technically.
In my opinion racism only exists controversially because of its ability to offend, adversely affect or cause some kind of harm through discrimination... and that ability is dictated by the dynamic which exists between the alleged racist and the target. So to me there is a subtle flaw in using an example of racism in a scenario where the recipient wasn't offended (which seemed to be the case with NYTWB and theworm) - and hence potential asymmetry exists between literally comparable insults which reference skin color... It's a complex discussion and I don't have all the answers - just an opinion.
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Curiously, on issues invoking race you almost always seem to be misunderstood. Generally, the "misunderstandings" stream from your frequently reductive assessments. What's that the product of? Miscegenated matrimony?
Yeah, implicitly you're an apologist (and that's not an insult ... it is what it is). Explicitly, it would be helpful to recognise it for what it is.
You talking a big load of crap. First of all I am not "always misunderstood" on topics of race. This is the first time to my recollection and that's because I tried to summarize in possibly too few words (and with a debatable choice of word in "technically")
reductive statements a result of miscegenated matrimony? You're asking me if I simplify opinions on race because I'm involved in an interracial marriage? or the product of an interracial marriage? ....If so, then that deductive reasoning on your part is inherently reductive if you ask me... so question yuhself!
Lastly I'm not any apologist implicitly or explicitly - my post was not meant to justify anything, or apologize for anything. Like I said, read more slowly. If that doesn't help, just pick yuh battles and leave this one alone.
Well, let me refresh your memory with the following. There are other examples elsewhere on the site. I remain grateful for Zandolie's summation on the thread in question. ["Maybe if some black people had to siddung right next to these two ca-caholes during a game and endure the stadium laughing at their 'Golliwog' antics they might change their opinon.."] It makes the world of sense.
Oh ... and incidentally ... I didn't render any deductive reasoning. I was merely deliberately provocative for reasons alluded to in my preceding post.
Anyway, fortunately we don't have you as the arbiter or protector of rights ... whether one is offended (or not) does not provide sufficient guidance as to whether a comment or action is racist ... or indeed whether racism per se exists (Fenwick's comments for example don't necessarily gel with the headline).
Indeed, one could be an African ignoramus or an oblivious c**t .... should one's numbness to the offending event or action blunt otherwise sensible condemnatory societal action or response?
Seeker you are misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I'm saying...too much work to respond in kind though...so I'll leave it be.
As for the airlines thing, I posted that I totally understand Qantas pulling the tweet down to be sensitive to their customer base - again you misrepresent that.
...
Is that what you meant by:
... I'm ok with Qantas for deleting the tweet to be sensitive to a diverse audience with different experiences, but I can't genuinely call this racist.
Quite the euphemism there, kicker.
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There was no misunderstanding in the quantas scenario - we had differing points of view. And there were equal people on either side of the line, therefore you were as misunderstood as I was lol...
I'm not claiming to be an authority of what is racist and what is not, and I'm not saying that lack of causation of offense is the sole deciding factor of whether or not a statement or action is racist. I'm saying that racism exists controversially because of it's ability to offend so there's a potential asymmetry (depending on the scenario) between literally comparable statements...not that one is absolutely racist, and one is absolutely not racist but that the statements are not symmetrical in the real world. In sum, what makes a statement racist is not just the words spoken...in my opinion.
I'm not saying that it's right - but my observation is that that is how it is...and it varies from society to society - makes it even more complex..
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I appreciate your position ... and I think it's an understandably enthusiastic and perhaps even duly-considered one. However, let me say ... that condition is not "personal" to Kicker ... and others so conditioned are not nearly as cavalier or reductive in their assessments. Indeed, they may even be less predisposed to say ... having an obscene notion of a hierarchy of acceptability/comparability between being called a white c**t or a black c**t.
There is a vacuous nature to Kicker's treatment of these issues that is surprisingly contemptible, even if benign in intent.
I'll leave it there.
There is nothing "enthusiastic" about my comment... you statement was simply unnecessary, and you yourself concede as much by your admission that you were being deliberately provocative. Being in an interracial marriage isn't "personal" to Kicker (silly that you would even feel the need to raise that peripheral point) but your question to him in the context of the conversation was absolutely personal, again, confirmed by your later admission.
There is also no a priori connection to the Quantas situation here, I happened to agree with Kicker then and disagree now. His consistency, as I see it hardly indicative of some larger philosophical take, or vacuousness on his part with regards to his treatment of the subject matter. Like him I share a reticence to instinctively and automatically reach for the race card each time the issue is invoked... I don't see what about that mindset justifies you feeling the need to start bringing the man marriage into the equation.
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What would provide immunity to ask that question? One similarly situated?
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He called me a black nigger
By Jethro Wang (The New Paper)
He has encountered racism on the football pitch before.
But trinidad and Tobago defender Fabien Lewis never expected to be exposed to it in Singapore.
Unfortunately, in an S-League match between Balestier Central and Lewis' Woodlands Wellington last night, it happened again.
Speaking to The New Paper after the match, which Balestier won 2-0, the 30-year old Trinidadian said: "I'm shocked that players in this league would use such words, as the S-League is a very reputable league."
The incident in question took place in the dying minutes of the match, with Balestier leading 2-0.
According to Lewis, he had urged a Balestier player to get up and stop play-acting after one of his tackles.
At this point, Lewis said, another Balestier player, forward Zulkiffli Hassim hurled racist abuse at him.
"He used the words 'Get out of here, you black nigger' after I made the challenge," said Lewis, still clearly outraged.
Immediately after that, players from both sides converged, and though no punches were thrown, referee K. Kalimuthu showed Zulkiffli a straight red card.
According to a teammate of Zulkiffli, who could not be reached for comment last night, the referee told him that the red card was for his racist comment.
Lewis - a new signing for Woodlands - added that a similar incident happened to him when he was playing in the United States a few years ago.
According to the Trinidadian, that offender was banned for the rest of the season.
Said the Rams defender: "I hope that necessary action will be taken by authorities (in this instance too)."
Woodlands' assistant coach Clement Teo said that the club would be lodging a complaint with the Football Association of Singapore (FAS) over the incident.
Teo said that he was further incensed by Zulkiffli's actions after the red card.
The forward smiled and clapped at the 1,913 crowd at the Tpa Payoh Stadium as he walked off the pitch.
Said Teo: "He should be ashamed of his actions. He acted as if he did something great."
When The New Paper spoke to Balestier's head coach Darren Stewart, he said that he was unaware of the incident.
Said Stewart: "I had no idea what happened. I thought Zulkiffli was sent off for a scuffle.
"I'll leave it to the authorities to sort it out."
It is understood that the FAS will review the incident once the referee's report is released today.
(http://www.tnp.sg/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/race19.jpg)
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Where did Fabien play his football in Trinidad?
VB
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Where did Fabien play his football in Trinidad?
VB
He played for; Fyzabad Composite, Naparima College, Alvin Corneal Coaching Coach [Siparia Branch], Irwin Park Rangers, Forest Fyzabad F.C, Palo Seco F.C, W Connection F.C.
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Good work by the referee...
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hassim would be called the same thing in many places.
http://www.balestierkhalsafc.com/about-the-team/s-league-squad/player/1/11
in fact, with a name like that and he religion, he go be called plenty other things.
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Chris Samba was another one, got a banana thrown at him.
But I don't think you needed to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out it was going to happen, he had to of known before he signed for the money. It doesn't make it right and it shouldn't happen, but if you know its going on and decide to go anyway, you shouldn't be that shocked when it happens to you.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17434648
Russian club Anzhi Makhachkala have called on Lokomotiv Moscow to identify the fan who threw a banana at Congo's Christopher Samba on Sunday.
The incident, which Anzhi have described as "idiotic", took place in Moscow as the hosts won 1-0.
"We are assured that representatives of ... Lokomotiv will settle this issue and the guilty will be identified and punished," Anzhi said in a statement.........................................................................
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tribal bizness...STOPPPPPPPP
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So what's new, pussy cat. ::)
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tribal bizness...STOPPPPPPPP
Call it what it really is, racism! tribalism is when two of ah kind get into it, like you and RF.
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tribal bizness...STOPPPPPPPP
Call it what it really is, racism! tribalism is when two of ah kind get into it, like you and RF.
Everyone is of the same "kind"... for crying out loud. Hence "tribalism" is very appropo.
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that real unfortunate...Fabien is meh brethren too >:(
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hassim would be called the same thing in many places.
http://www.balestierkhalsafc.com/about-the-team/s-league-squad/player/1/11
in fact, with a name like that and he religion, he go be called plenty other things.
Well actually, he'd probably be called a chinky b*stard in England by way of racist comment. But the point is, two wrongs don't make a right. Whether its a blackman, an Asian or a whiteman, any such racist comment should be heavily penalised. The club should also be fined and Zulkiffi should be made to attend some kind of anti racist course.
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I dunno maybe I'm all alone thinking like this but so what if some one calls you a nigger on the pitch shake that shit off and play. Personally I live in the south in the US and I've learned if you don't think your a nigger you shouldn't feel offense to it.. I dunno it's 2012.. Football is a game. And there Are far more serious things to stress about.
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I dunno maybe I'm all alone thinking like this but so what if some one calls you a nigger on the pitch shake that shit off and play. Personally I live in the south in the US and I've learned if you don't think your a nigger you shouldn't feel offense to it.. I dunno it's 2012.. Football is a game. And there Are far more serious things to stress about.
No place for that shit on the pitch... no place for it in the game. One can absolutely object to it without letting it affect you, the two reactions are not mutually exclusive. Lewis did the absolute correct thing.
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De ball they playing in the S-League look real small... Blacks are not looked highly upon by the four tigers, a lot of misconceptions by the general public on "Blacks"
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What de guy do is definitely unaccepted.
However, I find black man skin tin when it comes to these sort of things.
They does call de Indian (coolie), de white man (honkie) and de Chine (China man) but when they get called Nigger they does get real vex ?
I went to de Apollo Theatre once for a comedy show and them blackman comedian was really dissing de white and Chinese people, at one time I felt somebody woulda flip on them....
Dont get me wrong, this behavior should never be accepted, but if you does give, you have to learn to receive to.
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Sam i cant comment on other racist names but gettin called honkie and cracker etc is just annoying.
Doesn't have any of the historical baggage that the N word does, so can't really equate the two.
Must say I had to laugh once in Moruga when I got told to go back to America (had only been to the US once for a week before I was 17)
In Rio Claro at age 15 I was told by big grown men in the crowd that "white people" not welcome here. That shocked me more, just being young and it being a lil U16 game. Couldn't believe all that talk would come from random members of the crowd and not even the students of the school we were playing
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Fabian lucky dey ah ask him to see his tail or if de black does rub off, but kudos to Fabian for responding in the right way about it :beermug:
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What de guy do is definitely unaccepted.
However, I find black man skin tin when it comes to these sort of things.
They does call de Indian (coolie), de white man (honkie) and de Chine (China man) but when they get called Nigger they does get real vex ?
I went to de Apollo Theatre once for a comedy show and them blackman comedian was really dissing de white and Chinese people, at one time I felt somebody woulda flip on them....
Dont get me wrong, this behavior should never be accepted, but if you does give, you have to learn to receive to.
You seriously trying to facking compare some heckling by comedians to this incident? You think asians and whites don't get offended? All this displays is your own ignorance to what is going on elsewhere in the world. The Knicks have a Taiwanese-American point guard... in the US they used to call people from China/Taiwan "Chinks". An editor for ESPN.com loss he job for approving a headline that said "A Chink in the Armor"... referring to a flawed performance by the player. Asian-Americans were upset that he used a racially-charged word. Never mind that "chink in the armor" is a well-known saying referring to a flaw or weakness in something... and the editor was referring to the flawed performance of the player, and that he was being targeted by the opposition as the weak link in the Knicks defense.
People need to educate themselves... the idiots who use racial pejoratives, and the ones who quick to bawl that people overreacting.
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What de guy do is definitely unaccepted.
However, I find black man skin tin when it comes to these sort of things.
They does call de Indian (coolie), de white man (honkie) and de Chine (China man) but when they get called Nigger they does get real vex ?
I went to de Apollo Theatre once for a comedy show and them blackman comedian was really dissing de white and Chinese people, at one time I felt somebody woulda flip on them....
Dont get me wrong, this behavior should never be accepted, but if you does give, you have to learn to receive to.
You can't be serious??!! as ah matter of fact yuhs ah fraud! bc you can't be half black and living in america since you small in the mids of all this racism and have these cowardly obscure views, no fackin way.
IMO yuhs ah indian who assume the identity as ah mixed person on the site so you could say what's on your mind without being called on it! i've been paying attention to your post now for 5 yrs, and something always irking you about black folks, while indian ppl are always victims of black abuse.
stop fronting and come out and tell everyone that yuhs ah indian who have ah beef with "creole", as yuh like tuh call we. nobody eh go mad @ yuh fuh dat.
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What de guy do is definitely unaccepted.
However, I find black man skin tin when it comes to these sort of things.
They does call de Indian (coolie), de white man (honkie) and de Chine (China man) but when they get called Nigger they does get real vex ?
I went to de Apollo Theatre once for a comedy show and them blackman comedian was really dissing de white and Chinese people, at one time I felt somebody woulda flip on them....
Dont get me wrong, this behavior should never be accepted, but if you does give, you have to learn to receive to.
You seriously trying to facking compare some heckling by comedians to this incident? You think asians and whites don't get offended? All this displays is your own ignorance to what is going on elsewhere in the world. The Knicks have a Taiwanese-American point guard... in the US they used to call people from China/Taiwan "Chinks". An editor for ESPN.com loss he job for approving a headline that said "A Chink in the Armor"... referring to a flawed performance by the player. Asian-Americans were upset that he used a racially-charged word. Never mind that "chink in the armor" is a well-known saying referring to a flaw or weakness in something... and the editor was referring to the flawed performance of the player, and that he was being targeted by the opposition as the weak link in the Knicks defense.
People need to educate themselves... the idiots who use racial pejoratives, and the ones who quick to bawl that people overreacting.
yourself is as good a place to start as any. no one in dey right mind would conflate the treatment of asians and whites as you did above. learn some history.
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To be honest, its not even about the actual name you are called, its the intent to abuse or disrespect you that does the damage. I'm white, so being called white shouldn't be a problem, right? But when a certain ex FIFAVice President said on a radio show "What is this white Englishman doing coming here are telling us about our football" I was offended. Why did he need to even state the fact that I was white? What did it have to do with the context? On the other hand, I get called "white boy", "honky" "vanilla" "wigga" and even "nigga" by friends and acquaintances and it doeasn't bother me at all.
Its similar to a friend giving you a dead arm or a horse bite and you laugh it off, but an asshole bumps you on purpose and you wanna slap him.
In the instance with the player, it was clearly intended to offend and therefore should be punished severely.
Like any weapon, words are benign until they are used to cause pain.
I have several Trini friends who we greet each other as "my brother from another mother".
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yourself is as good a place to start as any. no one in dey right mind would conflate the treatment of asians and whites as you did above. learn some history.
I think you need to sit down and figure out which is yuh head from which is yuh asshole because on current form it seems clear yuh have them confused. No one in their right mind would interpret my statement as conflating the disparate treatments handed out to whites and asians, I stated that they too get offended and gave an example of asians being offended. Instead or campaigning for cunny of the year, it might do you well to focus on making a more positive contribution aside from instigating talk.
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What de guy do is definitely unaccepted.
However, I find black man skin tin when it comes to these sort of things.
They does call de Indian (coolie), de white man (honkie) and de Chine (China man) but when they get called Nigger they does get real vex ?
I went to de Apollo Theatre once for a comedy show and them blackman comedian was really dissing de white and Chinese people, at one time I felt somebody woulda flip on them....
Dont get me wrong, this behavior should never be accepted, but if you does give, you have to learn to receive to.
Yuh right boy, Sam......we skin to damned thin! After all the abuse from as many races and cultures as we have (some would argue, disproportionately) received and especialy from the Europeans, we should be able to handle it if a banana hit we on a football field man. I find we should jes (continue to) take we lix and keep on smiling because the little inconveniences that we have experienced throughout history could never compare to what the Whites, Indians and Chinese have had to endure.
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So all de shit you have to endure does not give you the right to get even.
And I never said de guy was right for throwing bananas or calling someone nigger..... never !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get your story straight.....
You cant go around getting pissed or wanting to fight someone and everyone for calling you nigger....
Who de hell cares about 200 years ago..... dont let that keep you down..
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So all de shit you have to endure does not give you the right to get even.
And I never said de guy was right for throwing bananas or calling someone nigger..... never !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get your story straight.....
You cant go around getting pissed or wanting to fight someone and everyone for calling you nigger....
Who de hell cares about 200 years ago..... dont let that keep you down..
Sam yuh trying to kill we or what. Sam how much people yuh beat up in de last 5 years. And we does only hear about de football related beat-ups. Well yes. yuh good oui!
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Sam i cant comment on other racist names but gettin called honkie and cracker etc is just annoying.
Doesn't have any of the historical baggage that the N word does, so can't really equate the two.
Must say I had to laugh once in Moruga when I got told to go back to America (had only been to the US once for a week before I was 17)
In Rio Claro at age 15 I was told by big grown men in the crowd that "white people" not welcome here. That shocked me more, just being young and it being a lil U16 game. Couldn't believe all that talk would come from random members of the crowd and not even the students of the school we were playing
That real sad to hear . I always say Trinis not as nice as we think we are and we have double standards when it comes to race.
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What de guy do is definitely unaccepted.
However, I find black man skin tin when it comes to these sort of things.
They does call de Indian (coolie), de white man (honkie) and de Chine (China man) but when they get called Nigger they does get real vex ?
I went to de Apollo Theatre once for a comedy show and them blackman comedian was really dissing de white and Chinese people, at one time I felt somebody woulda flip on them....
Dont get me wrong, this behavior should never be accepted, but if you does give, you have to learn to receive to.
That not being thin skinned . Anybody would be enraged in that situation. The guy attacked his race. I think no matter how level headed you are when that happens its instantly upsetting.
Your example would make more sense if you were comparing like for like as in black people being upset by joke made by white comics.
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I will always get vex when this happen to men but at the same time I want to pull my hair out. What did he expect? It's Russia after all. That's why players only go to Russia if the money nice. The money nice so sit back and enjoy the ride.
Why complain now? Racism in Russia is not a football issue. They write the word "n*gger" outside the US embassy in Moscow big and bold on the pavement. They have Neo Nazi parades out in the open. Thats part of their society and they aren't friendly to foreigners. Are some of these footballers really living in a bubble? if this happened in Scotland or England I could understand the outrage and shock.
I am in no way condoning the action but it is what it is. Jump high or jump low Russia's not changing anytime soon.
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Sam i cant comment on other racist names but gettin called honkie and cracker etc is just annoying.
Doesn't have any of the historical baggage that the N word does, so can't really equate the two.
Must say I had to laugh once in Moruga when I got told to go back to America (had only been to the US once for a week before I was 17)
In Rio Claro at age 15 I was told by big grown men in the crowd that "white people" not welcome here. That shocked me more, just being young and it being a lil U16 game. Couldn't believe all that talk would come from random members of the crowd and not even the students of the school we were playing
That real sad to hear . I always say Trinis not as nice as we think we are and we have double standards when it comes to race.
It happens here....but its usually either uneducated idiots or guys over 60. Mostly, I find Trinis very tolerant towards whites.
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So all de shit you have to endure does not give you the right to get even.
And I never said de guy was right for throwing bananas or calling someone nigger..... never !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Get your story straight.....
You cant go around getting pissed or wanting to fight someone and everyone for calling you nigger....
Who de hell cares about 200 years ago..... dont let that keep you down..
Who de hell cares about 200 years ago..... dont let that keep you down..
Sam, everybody beating up on you today. But you right to a point. Don't let that keep you down. But believe you me Black people in the diaspora have gone thru all means of trying to forget their past. But things keep recurring that makes us wonder "what's wrong with me". As in this case.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/21/justice/mississippi-hate-crime/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Black men in particular have this inate defensive mechanism in their psyche. It does not matter how far up the totem pole you reach, it is always there. Always watch your arse. It maybe hard to explain to you.
My son grew up in Bowie, Md, a progressive and integrated community. But I always warn him to be on alert when he leaves the sheltered community of Bowie and DC metro area. What maybe kosher there maybe sacreligeous elsewhere. The Florida incident and Chris Samba issue in Russia makes you wonder if this crap will ever end. And yes some blacks use these incidents as an excuse to always blame it on "whitey". Bro, personally, most of the things that I have not or yet accomplished in life is my own doing. I either did not have the resources to do it. I did not prepare my self fully to accomplish it. Or I just was not interested in pursuing that interest anymore. Meh eh blaming nobody. Is ME. I dealing with the the NOW.
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I will always get vex when this happen to men but at the same time I want to pull my hair out. What did he expect? It's Russia after all. That's why players only go to Russia if the money nice. The money nice so sit back and enjoy the ride.
Why complain now? Racism in Russia is not a football issue. They write the word "n*gger" outside the US embassy in Moscow big and bold on the pavement. They have Neo Nazi parades out in the open. Thats part of their society and they aren't friendly to foreigners. Are some of these footballers really living in a bubble? if this happened in Scotland or England I could understand the outrage and shock.
I am in no way condoning the action but it is what it is. Jump high or jump low Russia's not changing anytime soon.
They may not be changing anytime soon, but the eventual change that is to come about, it starts with seemingly insignificant incidents like this. It is shedding light on issues that need to be addressed. Yuh cyah just say that men know how russia is and they shouldn't complain, this is all part of the process of change that will have to come about. The fellas that takin' d lix now are paving the way for others and nothing cyah stop dat. Granted, some people may feel that FIFA shoulda tell russia to straighten out dey race problems before "rewarding" them with the hosting of a WC but maybe that is how it all has to happen, too. Should Black players not complain when they get mistreated in italy, too? They still have some social issues that need to be worked out, too and they supposed to be miles ahead of russia on them issues.
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Sam i cant comment on other racist names but gettin called honkie and cracker etc is just annoying.
Doesn't have any of the historical baggage that the N word does, so can't really equate the two.
Must say I had to laugh once in Moruga when I got told to go back to America (had only been to the US once for a week before I was 17)
In Rio Claro at age 15 I was told by big grown men in the crowd that "white people" not welcome here. That shocked me more, just being young and it being a lil U16 game. Couldn't believe all that talk would come from random members of the crowd and not even the students of the school we were playing
That real sad to hear . I always say Trinis not as nice as we think we are and we have double standards when it comes to race.
It happens here....but its usually either uneducated idiots or guys over 60. Mostly, I find Trinis very tolerant towards whites.
I grew up in St. Joseph in the 60s, at that time, one of the most integrated areas east of POS. Maybe I was small then, but I can't remember any overt racial incidents at the time. School, church,savannah, annual harvest, bathing in the various pools in St. Joseph river was what most of us did. I remember the CYO group being very integrated. San Jose Serenaders parang. Most of the incidents rumshop incidents and the badjohn thing.
But after the 1970 Black Power, the racial dynamics in TT changed. Heavily influenced from the US, Blacks attempted to install some kind of Black/African pride. It cause confusion and I guess a kind of quiet hostility. Lots of White Trinis became defensive. It caused rifts with families who were racially mixed.
Although I think Black Trinis are very tolerant of everybody, I am not putting anything past some of them.
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I will always get vex when this happen to men but at the same time I want to pull my hair out. What did he expect? It's Russia after all. That's why players only go to Russia if the money nice. The money nice so sit back and enjoy the ride.
Why complain now? Racism in Russia is not a football issue. They write the word "n*gger" outside the US embassy in Moscow big and bold on the pavement. They have Neo Nazi parades out in the open. Thats part of their society and they aren't friendly to foreigners. Are some of these footballers really living in a bubble? if this happened in Scotland or England I could understand the outrage and shock.
I am in no way condoning the action but it is what it is. Jump high or jump low Russia's not changing anytime soon.
Why yuh want to pull yuh hair out? What was he supposed to do... say "aaps, dai'z just how it goes here lemme pretend like nutten happen"?
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No just acknowledge that it comes with the territory. This is nothing new. It's Russia we're talking about. It's normal to be on a train and see a bunch of neo nazis beating up on an immigrant and Police ignoring the act. It's why they need to offer so much money to attract foreign talent. There's a reason why they have so many bodyguards there. He moved there for money. I'm sure he had other viable options. What did he expect? What does anyone expects? There are too many stories of this nature for him to still be shocked. Russia will never change.
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No just acknowledge that it comes with the territory. This is nothing new. It's Russia we're talking about. it's normal to be on a train and see a bunch of neo nazis beating up on an immigrant and Police ignoring the act. You moved there for money. I'm sure he had other viable options. What did he expect? What does anyone expects? There are too many stories of this nature for him to still be shocked.
This happen in Singapore... and one can be realistic and acknowledge that things like this comes with the territory, while also advocating for change. He did absolutely nothing wrong... he brought the incident to the attention of the authorities and it's in their hands now. The way yuh acting you'd swear he on ah hunger strike or something.
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Sorry, I'm talking about the Christopher Samba incident.
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Racism still in this day and age yes ... Madness SMH
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FAS to probe Woodlands' racial abuse allegation
By Jethro Wang (The New Paper)
Woodlands Wellington have lodged a complaint with the Football Association of Singapore (FAS) with regard to the racial abuse their defender Fabien Lewis allegedly suffered in the match against Balestier Khalsa last Sunday.
Lewis, a 30-year-old defender from Trinidad and Tobago, claimed that he was allegedly called a "black n*****" by Balestier forward Zulkiffli Hassim in the dying minutes of Balestier's 2-0 win at the Toa Payoh Stadium.
Referee K Kalimuthu showed Zulkiffli a straight red card for the alleged offence.
The New Paper understands that Lewis was allegedly called a "f******* black s***" instead of a "black n******".
Woodlands' team manager Matthew Tay told The New Paper yesterday that a complaint was lodged with the FAS on Monday evening.
He said: "We wrote to the FAS about the incident based on what we know. I understand that the investigation will take some time. We'll just wait and see."
According to Lewis, he had urged a Balestier player to get up and stop play-acting after one of his tackles.
There are suggestions that Lewis also used vulgar language while asking the Balestier player to get up.
At this point, Lewis claimed that Zulkiffli allegedly hurled a racist remark at him.
Zulkiffli was seen smiling and applauding the 1,913 crowd as he walked off the pitch after he was given his marching orders.
When contacted yesterday, Balestier vice-chairman S Thavaneson declined to comment on the incident.
When TNP spoke to Balestier's head coach Darren Stewart after the match, he said that he was unaware of the incident.
Said Stewart: "I had no idea what happened. I thought that Zulkiffi was sent off for a scuffle. I'll leave it to the authorities to sort it out."
Tay added: "Personally, I feel that the use of such language is inappropriate. But these things do happen in football.
"You can even see it in the big leagues."
Last December, Liverpool striker Luis Suarez was slapped with an eight-game ban by England's Football Association for racially abusing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra.
In a separate case, Chelsea defender John Terry is currently awaiting trial over allegations that he racially abused Queens Park Rangers defender Anton Ferdinand.
An FAS spokesman said yesterday that it will investigate Sunday's incident, following the submission of the match commissioner's and referee's reports.
Conduct
He said: "We expect our players and officials to conduct themselves with the highest integrity.
"They have to respect one another despite the competitive nature of the game.
"There is no place for racial abuse in our league. Such acts will not be condoned. Players or officials found guilty will be severely dealt with."
The FAS spokesman added that all clubs have been informed that the FAS has a zero-tolerance policy towards any form of racial abuse, both on and off the pitch.
After a meeting of club chairmen yesterday, TNP has learnt that the FAS has asked all clubs to brief their players on the matter and the proper way to behave.
Players could also be asked to sign a document agreeing to adhere to the policy against racial abuse.
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Good posts Deeks - appreciate the perspective.
When non-racist members of the racial/ethnic groups that are responsible for racist acts in football (i.e. whites in Europe) stop being so silent and take a proper stand against it, then we'll see some change.
Until then it's just the abused fighting a losing cause and making an annoying noise of complaint. The problem is that we as a people see racism as a problem which affects only the racially abused - which is wrong - it affects everybody and makes life worse for everybody...But those on the other side of the fence don't really care enough because the effect is not direct or seemingly significant enough, so it's not their problem...
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Allyuh caption this...... ;D
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534054_10100422868016057_15620521_46614766_89616539_n.jpg)
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Allyuh caption this...... ;D
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534054_10100422868016057_15620521_46614766_89616539_n.jpg)
Ref: Doh make joke ! For Real ?
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(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/534054_10100422868016057_15620521_46614766_89616539_n.jpg)
Check de ref face nah !!!!!!!!!... :rotfl:
Lewis: But Ref, he called me a black nigger !!
REF: What !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#17 - Eh eh, he lie !!!!!!!!!!
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Didier Zokora Responds to Racist Abuse With Swift Kick to Emre's Family Jewels (Video)
This can't be what Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. or Sepp Blatter had in mind. In a Turkish soccer game on Sunday, a victim of racist abuse kicked his tormentor where it hurts most. Trabzonspor's Didier Zokora landed a boot between the legs of Fenerbache's Emre. It has been widely interpreted as revenge for Emre using racially abusive taunts against Zokora during a game earlier this season. Emre was suspended two games by the Turkish FA, but Zokora's memory runs longer than that. Not only did he snub Emre during the pre-game hand-shake. He also exacted his own revenge during the game. Zokora was shown a yellow card for the "challenge," which has gone viral. Earlier this season, Blatter caused a storm by saying that racism has been eliminated from soccer and incidents of racial abuse should be settled with a postgame hand shake. The FIFA president hasn't commented on Zokora's kick. It could be because he's still cringing after watching the video.
See Zokora's revenge on Emre in the video link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nK4e3qi1X3Y :rotfl: :rotfl:
http://www.nesn.com/2012/05/didier-zokora-responds-to-racist-abuse-with-swift-kick-to-emres-family-jewels-video.html?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150830785737207_22039899_10150830820857207#f35616342bd8dde
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Ouch! :rotfl: Zakora's reaction after he kicks him is the best....Doh worry he go be aright! lol
Big Up!
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I cyah believe Zokora remained on the field after that challenge.
Just because he was upset about racist abuse does not give him the right to do what he did. Somehow I get the impression he was willing to risk the red card.
Wheyyy.
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I cyah believe Zokora remained on the field after that challenge.
Just because he was upset about racist abuse does not give him the right to do what he did. Somehow I get the impression he was willing to risk the red card.
Wheyyy.
YEP D RED CAR WAS SECONDARY
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I used to admire Emre as a player, now I admire him as a punching bag.
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Oh my goodness that was funny. Well worth the watch. Tnks airman.
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well it isnt the first time zokora has dealt with racist comments...a man could take only so much. emre look for that, you gotta cut all that s&^# out and just play football.
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Zokora reaction after de kick was priceless
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... ah feeling it even more for the South Carolina high school girl who ketch more trouble for retaliation that apparently lacked premeditation.
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I cyah believe Zokora remained on the field after that challenge.
Just because he was upset about racist abuse does not give him the right to do what he did. Somehow I get the impression he was willing to risk the red card.
Wheyyy.
YEP D RED CAR WAS SECONDARY
CO-SIGN! Sometimes yuh jes' have to let a mudda c**t know!.....what time it is. Besides, the kick really wasn't as bad as it seems. De man brakes from it and Zokora eh really ketch 'im dat good, so he was lucky. All dat rollin' aroung and grabbin' he balls is more fuh show than it is from pain.
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It good
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... ah feeling it even more for the South Carolina high school girl who ketch more trouble for retaliation that apparently lacked premeditation.
Was it discovered that she was retaliating about something?
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... ah feeling it even more for the South Carolina high school girl who ketch more trouble for retaliation that apparently lacked premeditation.
Was it discovered that she was retaliating about something?
... other than being tripped?
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Emre = known racist.
what was that song the english like to sing?
"I would rather be a Paki than a Turk"
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... ah feeling it even more for the South Carolina high school girl who ketch more trouble for retaliation that apparently lacked premeditation.
Was it discovered that she was retaliating about something?
... other than being tripped?
Oh, I thought we found out she had a legitimate reason for acting an idiot.
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... ah feeling it even more for the South Carolina high school girl who ketch more trouble for retaliation that apparently lacked premeditation.
Lacked premeditation but was clearly a great deal more assaultive and unreasonable in its fury.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/24/pfa-racist-abuse-sacking-offence?fb=native&CMP=FBCNETTXT9038
Racist abuse will become a sackable offence for professional footballers next season, as part of significant changes being made to every Premier League and Football League player's contract.
Gordon Taylor, the chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, is behind the proposal that he hopes will send out a powerful message on the back of a season when racism on the pitch made an unwelcome return to English football.
Taylor told the Guardian that he believes the change in the standard players' contract will highlight how seriously the PFA views racism, and remove any ambiguity about the possible consequences for anyone found guilty of the offence. Racist abuse will now be deemed as gross misconduct and, although the decision of whether to terminate a contract will ultimately rest with the player's employers, Taylor pointed out that any club failing to act "could be held responsible for condoning [racism]".
The PFA will present the proposal to the Professional Football Negotiating and Consultative Committee, which includes the Premier League and the Football League, and Taylor is confident that it will be approved. "We're just about to bring it to the PFNCC, the body by which we bring the issues to the Premier League and Football League, and I don't see a problem with that being introduced," he said.
"It just highlights the point in the standard players' contract. It would say that racist abuse, if found guilty, will be classed as gross misconduct and a reason to terminate a contract. I feel it's important to highlight it, bearing in mind what has happened, and not mess about with it and not afford for anybody to be ambiguous about what the consequences are.
"I'm not saying it's ambiguous [now]. But just to really put it in there means there is no misunderstanding on how serious we take it. If any player is found guilty of racist abuse, the club and the player need to be aware that could be a solid reason for terminating the contract."
Racist abuse on the pitch has become an emotive issue on the back of two high-profile incidents last season. Liverpool's Luis Surez was given an eight-match ban for racially abusing Manchester United's Patrice Evra at Anfield in October while the Chelsea captain, John Terry, will appear at Westminster magistrates' court on 9 July after he was charged with a "racially aggravated public order offence" following an altercation with Queens Park Rangers' Anton Ferdinand at Loftus Road, also in October. Terry denies the charge.
Although the PFA has worked hard to campaign against racism in football, Taylor acknowledges that this season has, in some respects, been a "reality check". He remains concerned that black players will "think twice" about lodging an official complaint because of "such intimidation with social networks" and because "there is so much abuse flying about", and for that reason feels it is vital the "football world" supports those who come forward. Taylor also revealed that he has been on the receiving end of "terrible abuse" for speaking out against racism.
As well as the change to players' contracts that will carry the threat of more severe punishments, Taylor accepts that there is a need to "re-address the education process, rather than just think about sanctions".
He explained that the PFA, working in tandem with the League Managers Association, are planning to bring in a new education programme that would lead to managers, all British and overseas players, and even directors and owners receiving training and advice in relation to racism and discrimination in football.
"Rather than just concentrate on the young apprentices as part of their curriculum, we want to introduce it to all senior players, and also that when players come in from abroad, to try and have an educational process for them and the owners of the club and management," said Taylor. "It will be part of the duty of [player liaison officers] introducing any player coming in from abroad to go through a list of things, particularly in the player's contract, where you see about racist abuse, code of conduct and what is expected in this country on racism and equality issues."
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touchy stuff..
Yuh could curry it, bbq it, stew it, kill it, kick it, break it foot, eat it or whatever, but doh describe it
http://www.thekitchn.com/whats-the-deal-with-black-chic-80171
not trying to take away from the seriousness..but, implementation very difficult
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BBC documentary on Euro 2012 racism
http://www.youtube.com/v/rzo3RYCbO5I
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BBC has no right....lol what a thing eh?
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Sancho on Talk City now about racism in football
http://www.talkcity91fm.com/
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Now a Swiss defender is expelled from the Olympics for racist remarks. I am not surprised any more how ignorant some people are.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1128500/morganella-expelled-from-swiss-olympic-squad-for-racist-tweet?cc=5901
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On a brighter note, good to see this sort of action being taken by teams.
It won't eradicate racism...it will merely get the racists to be more careful.
But the message that this sort of thing will not be tolerated and that there are serious consequences for transgression is powerful.
Good on de swiss...good on de greeks.
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A black footballer was unfairly sacked by Gillingham FC after being racially victimised, an employment tribunal has ruled.
Mark McCammon, 33, a former Barbados international, took legal action against the League Two side after being dismissed for alleged misconduct last year.
The striker told a hearing in Ashford, Kent, that he and other black players at the club were treated differently from white players.
McCammon said he was ordered to come into the ground amid "treacherous", snowy driving conditions while some white players were told they were not required. He also said the club tried to "frustrate him out" by refusing to pay private medical bills to help him regain his fitness after injury.
Instead, he claimed, he was offered the same operation on the NHS rather than privately, a move he described as "completely out of character" for a Football League club, and that he was fined two weeks' wages when he visited a private consultant. In contrast, a white team-mate was flown to Dubai for treatment by an eminent physiotherapist at the club's expense, he said.
In a letter sent to the Professional Footballers' Association outlining his grievances, McCammon also claimed he was told not to blog while others were permitted to.
Officials at Gillingham said they were "staggered" by the ruling, saying the club had employed thousands of staff of different races and religions. "Today we have received the decision of the Ashford employment tribunal, which sets out their findings that Mark McCammon was unfairly dismissed and that his dismissal was an act of racial victimisation," it said. "We are hugely disappointed, in fact staggered, by this decision. As an organisation we are an equal opportunity employer and do not discriminate against, nor victimise our staff.
"This case is the first of its kind to be brought against the club in its entire history, a history that has seen the club employ many thousands of staff of various race, religion and creed, none of whom have ever felt the need to bring such a claim. Given the nature of the case, and the findings, we will discuss the judgment with our lawyers and decide upon the next course of action, whether that be an appeal against the findings, or another form of action, as deemed appropriate."
McCammon said he was "relieved" at the judgment and that he hoped it would lead other players to raise "legitimate complaints" of discrimination.
A statement issued through his solicitor, Sim Owolabi, said: "Mr McCammon is relieved that he has been afforded the opportunity to put forward the truth about the experience he suffered at the hands of his former employers.
"He is pleased that the employment tribunal has found in his favour and feels that the judgment makes clear that his dismissal was not only unfair but an act of race victimisation.
"Mr McCammon raised a legitimate complaint of race discrimination, which the tribunal found that [the Gillingham chairman, Paul Scally] had discounted from the start as being without merit.
"Mr Scally did not bother to investigate the complaint and ultimately dismissed him because of it.
"The employment tribunal also make clear that the club's witnesses not only colluded in the preparation of their witness statements leading to his dismissal but also colluded in the preparation of their evidence before the employment tribunal.
"Mr McCammon is astounded that the club went to such lengths to both dismiss him and win their case before the tribunal.
"Mr McCammon hopes that his success will make other players feel free to raise legitimate complaints of discrimination and not suffer the traumatic treatment that he has for doing so."
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I wasn't there, so this may well be a just decision. However, I worked with players at Gillingham for two years and was around the club and players at least once a week. I never heard any reports of racism.
However, I would definately say that the club management certainly bullied players that they didn't like. I know Kelvin Jack was treated pretty badly just because he was injured and they had to pay for a loan keeper.
But there were also white players who were treated poorly too.
I recall at one period, the Trini players brought in a couple of ladies to provide Caribbean food along with English lunches. If there was racism, maybe that would not have been allowed?
But, I always maintain that racism is a personal matter. What may be plain disrespect to one person, may feel like racism to another of the same ethnicity.
McCammon clearly felt this was racism and his claim has been upheld. While I congratulate McCammon on winning his case, I'm saddened to see the club tagged as racist. Maybe the positive from this is that the management will now treat ALL players with more respect.
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"and now for something completely different" ???
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2181106/Rio-Ferdinand-charged-choc-ice-tweet.html
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Hmmm, choc ice? Used to be coconut when I was young! And it was usually a taunt from one black person to another, from what I recall a black guy would say this to a woman dating a white guy, and also it was said to black policemen.
Also, I note that in the Gillingham case, Andy Hessenthaler was one of the alleged racists. I can tell you without any fear of contradiction that Hessie was a very popular player and manager and I doubt that any black player at Gillingham would ever consider him racist. This is looking more and more like bullying, not racism to me. But, again, I wasn't the recipient, so McCammon obviously felt the opposite.
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FS it's not a matter of what he felt like, based on this article he did a very good job of outlining instances in which there was disparate treatment meted out to him relative to treatment given to white players.
Typically in the area of employment law, that raises a rebuttable presumption of discrimination and it's then on the employer to counter that presumption by showing some legitimate reason for having treated the individual differently as compared to its treatment of other employees. if the employer fails to meet its burden in countering the presumption, then a finding of discrimination is upheld.
Gillingham would have been given every opportunity to explain its side of the story and provide a reason for why the player was treated the way that he was. Evidently the club failed to provide adequate justification for its actions.
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FS it's not a matter of what he felt like, based on this article he did a very good job of outlining instances in which there was disparate treatment meted out to him relative to treatment given to white players.
Typically in the area of employment law, that raises a rebuttable presumption of discrimination and it's then on the employer to counter that presumption by showing some legitimate reason for having treated the individual differently as compared to its treatment of other employees. if the employer fails to meet its burden in countering the presumption, then a finding of discrimination is upheld.
Gillingham would have been given every opportunity to explain its side of the story and provide a reason for why the player was treated the way that he was. Evidently the club failed to provide adequate justification for its actions.
I agree that Gillingham failed to give justification. I believe thats because they bullied players for whatever reason. I just don't feel the motivation was racism. But, again, I wasn't there so I may be wrong. But telling a guy who lives 4 miles from training that he must attend and another who lives further away that he need not attend isn't racism necessarily, although it is could be favouritism. I have no doubt McCammon was treated unfairly, I just wonder if he played the "race card". I remember a very good young guy at Leyton Orient who was purchased by the chairman and put on a top wage. The manager refused to play him for a whole season and sent him on loan. He lost a whole season of a promising career. He was black, so perhaps felt that his colour may have been the reason. But he was being punished because of the friction between the chairman and manager.
I am not defending Gillingham or condoning racism, just saying that sometimes what you feel is not always correct.
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if they failed to give justification, what other conclusion can we come to?
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I am... just saying that sometimes what you feel is not always correct.
I think you need to look in the mirror and repeat these words to yourself... because clearly this finding wasn't based on some "feeling", as I tried to point out before.
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Now I like my spanish football and spain itself but this man ridiculous.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1186340/fa-boss:-football-racism-%27does-not-exist%27-in-spain?cc=5901
Spanish FA chief denies racism problems
(http://splinteredsunrise.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/comical_ali.jpg)
Spain's football federation chief has denied racism is a problem in Spanish soccer following several racist incidents among its fans at Euro 2012 and La Liga matches.
In comments reported on Wednesday by the Press Association, Angel Villa Llona said racism "does not exist" in the Spanish game.
UEFA fined the Spanish football federation (RFEF) $25,000 after Spain fans racially abused Mario Balotelli during Euro 2012, while last year Barcelona's Dani Alves said racism in the Spanish game is "uncontrollable".
Samuel Eto'o also highlighted racist abuse during his time with Barcelona.
But Llona, president of the Spanish FA and a member of both FIFA and UEFA's executive committee, insisted fans' racist behavior on Spanish grounds was not a problem.
Asked how racism in Spanish football compared to the game in England, which has had two high-profile abuses cases in the last year, Villa Llona said: "There is no racism in Spanish football."
Asked about the incident when Thierry Henry was the subject of a racist comment from former Spain coach Luis Aragones, Villa Llona repeated his insistence it was not an issue in Spanish football.
Aragones was sharply criticized across Europe after being picked up by TV microphones trying to motivate Jose Antonio Reyes by telling him he was better than "that black s---", in reference to the striker's Arsenal colleague Henry. Aragones was eventually fined $3,950 by the country's FA for the racist remark.
UEFA's disciplinary panel found Spain guilty in June of "improper conduct of its fans' [racist behaviour, racist chanting]" after Spain fans targeted abuse at the Italy forward Balotelli.
And last year, Alves said he had learned to live with racism in Spain.
"The clubs and the league try to do some things to stop it," he said. "They try to punish the clubs, but it is uncontrollable. It will not go away."
Information from Press Association and The Associated Press was used in this report.
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(http://splinteredsunrise.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/comical_ali.jpg)
Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf aka Comical Ali. This fella was something else ... FF yuh eh easy. ;D
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Black footballers need to support and not distance themselves from anti-racism campaigns like Kick It Out
By Luke Edwards (The Telegraph)
Shaka Hislop did not think of himself as an anti-racism campaigner when he answered an appeal for donations to set up a new charity aiming to educate school children on the dangers of racial prejudice.
Raised on some horrific stories of his fathers experience in 1960s London after travelling from Trinidad and Tobago to study law, he did not even think of himself as an anti-racism campaigner when he first visited schools to raise the profile of the work the group his donation had helped create were doing.
But now as Honourary president of the charity, Hislop knows better than most how important Show Racism the Red Card have been since he opened that letter back in 1996. He also knows how important they will be as English football tries to come to terms with the fact racism can still be as poisonous and divisive as ever.
We will never give up, that is never going to happen, said Hislop. Im extremely proud to have been part of Show Racism the Red Card and I have seen the enormous gains organisations like ours and Kick it Out have made, but our work is not done and we never believed it was.
We use football and footballers to highlight the problems of prejudice, not just racism, but homophobia, sexism.
Black players have to realise that to really change attitudes they have to continue to give their support to organisations like SRtRC. I wasnt a father when I opened that letter, but Im a father now and the only way we can hope to change societys attitudes in the future is if we speak to children now.
After years of patting itself on the back for all of the gains made in the battle against racism, English football has been repeatedly punched in the stomach by its high profile re-emergence.
Doubled over, the wind knocked out of it, the game appears to be in danger of haemorrhaging, tearing itself apart in response to a racist remark from former England captain John Terry.
Rightly or wrongly, black players feel alienated again. They are fighting an entrenched, institutionalised enemy, which cannot understand why they are so angry. But they are also fighting among themselves, scrambling for the right reaction, teetering on the brink of open rebellion.
I dont think complacent is the right word, but just because things arent as bad as they were 20 years ago doesnt mean everything is as it should be, said Hislop. No, its not as bad as it was when players like Viv Anderson and John Barnes had bananas thrown at them on the pitch and black players were called all sorts, on and off the pitch, often by their own teammates or manager.
There has been a lot of success and you cannot downplay the importance of organisations like Show Racism the Red Card and Kick It Out. They have been campaigning for a change in attitude and it is thanks to their efforts that thing have improved so dramatically from the 1970s and 80s, even the early 90s.
But we havent got rid of racism in the game. It hasnt gone away and what we have seen this week is a group of black players deciding to say enough is enough.
This feeling has been simmering away from some time, it hasnt just come about because there was anger at the light punishment given to John Terry.
That has been the spark for these protests, but the feelings behind the protest have been there for some time.
These players feel there is still some way to go and they are right. We are so quick to condemn countries abroad who behave in a way we used to 20 years ago that have forgotten about our own problems. This group of players have decided to take the leadership in expressing their concern and to remind the authorities that there is still a lot of work to be done.
I support what they have done, they have raised a pertinent issue within the game, but now is the time for a unified response.
For all of the good work done by Kick it Out in raising the profile of the anti-racism message, the main gripe seems to be that it lacks the will and means to criticise the Football Association when it fails to act properly.
The point is Kick It Out has lacked the power to do more, explained Hislop. They are disappointed that, during the John Terry trial, they were very quiet. Again, when Terry was punished so lightly by the FA, they were too quiet again.
They didnt speak up and players from minority backgrounds felt let down. A four game ban is a ludicrously lenient punishment to give out and while the FA have their hands tied legally as to what they can do, it sent out the wrong message.
On the weekend Terry started his ban, players were asked to wear the T-Shirts of an organisation many black players felt had failed to speak up enough during the whole saga. If you compare their statements regarding the behaviour of Fifa and Uefa with those made about the FA, they are far more willing to speak about racist incidents abroad.
Many feel talk of a separate black players union will do more harm than good, that it will create and accentuate a them and us attitude that facilitates rather than combats racism. Hislop, the former West Ham, Newcastle and Reading goalkeeper, is one of them, to an extent.
I dont think it is dangerous to talk about a black players union, but I do think that has to exist within existing bodies like the PFA, he added. If you look at the trade union movement, there have always been minority chapters who look out specifically for the needs of those members.
It would be an organisation that represents the interests of minority group players, but I think that can only happen by getting together with KIO, SRtRC, the PFA and the FA and coming to an agreement on how to go about it.
At the moment there is a stand-off and I expect that will continue for a few more days, but ultimately the players will realise they need the game behind them to get anything done and the game will realise it needs minority group players.
It is up to groups like SRtRC to help bring the two sides together to discuss what needs to be done and what happens from here. I think we can do that. Kick it Out also have that role to play. The issue has been raised, now we have to come together and try to do something about it.
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02377/shaka-hislop_2377763b.jpg)
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Zenit St Petersburg fan group warns against buying black or gay players
Zenit fan club Landscrona writes open letter to club
Group denies racism but wants to uphold 'tradition'
The arrival of the Belgium midfielder Axel Witsel, right, has angered some factions of the Zenit St Petersburg support.
The largest fan group of Russian champions Zenit St Petersburg has demanded the club refrain from buying black and gay players.
"We're not racists but we see the absence of black players at Zenit as an important tradition," Zenit fan club Landscrona said in a letter, called the "Selection 12 manifesto", posted on its website on Monday.
"It would allow Zenit to maintain the national identity of the club, which is the symbol of St Petersburg."
Zenit have been the only top club in Russia to have never signed an African player while the northern city of St Petersburg is known to have a strong right-wing nationalist influence.
The fans said they want more home-grown or European players in the team. "We only want players from other brotherly Slav nations, such as Ukraine and Belarus as well as from the Baltic states and Scandinavia. We have the same mentality and historical and cultural background as these nations," the letter said.
They also expressed their opposition to having "sexual minorities" in the team. Several prominent black players have turned down lucrative offers from the wealthy club over the past 12 months after receiving death threats from Zenit fans. A Zenit spokesman said on Monday the club would not comment on the fans' letter.
The former Zenit and Russia striker Alexander Panov said the fans have no right to influence the club's selection policy. "If we don't have enough good players from St Petersburg, then what should the club do?" he said.
"All clubs around the world have black players. If they are absent from Zenit it's Zenit's problem. I don't think fans should demand the club buy or don't buy certain players. The fans have the right to go to the stadium or stay home."
Zenit have been in turmoil for the past few months with several senior players unhappy after the wealthy club splashed out more than 60m on the Brazil forward Hulk and Belgium midfielder Axel Witsel just before the transfer deadline.
Zenit demoted the Russia captain Igor Denisov to the reserve team in September after he refused to play, issuing an ultimatum to renegotiate his contract in line with what Hulk was making. Denisov was later allowed to rejoin the first team after making an apology.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/17/zenit-st-petersburg-fan-group
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I say let em keep that tradition,
other clubs should sign blacks and minorities and cut they ass....
see how much pride they will have after that.....
With that being said after Brazil, the next 2 world cup locations are a joke. So if you are not going Brazil, who knows the next world cup it will actually be fun to go to?!
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
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For real, let them keep that tradition right dey....black players have to turn down contracts because of death threats :thumbsdown:
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It's obvious money pass to host them world cup in those venues. Personally I would of loved to see Australia and USA get them
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
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It's obvious money pass to host them world cup in those venues. Personally I would of loved to see Australia and USA get them
agreed
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Steups, I going where the hell I please ...
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Steups, I going where the hell I please ...
why de arse would you want to go there to enrich the coffers of these apes and dignify them with your presence. these people have been known to kill 'ethnic' children, let alone adults. let them pay dearly for their nationalist, zenophobic ideology
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
Qatar maybe, Russia hell no.
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Steups, I going where the hell I please ...
why de arse would you want to go there to enrich the coffers of these apes and dignify them with your presence. these people have been known to kill 'ethnic' children, let alone adults. let them pay dearly for their nationalist, zenophobic ideology
While I recognize the nexus ( in all its resplendent forms positive, negative and neutral) between sport and society, football is an arena into which I adamantly doh allow race to leverage outcomes. Not much different from how I function as a human being in other arenas.
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While I recognize the nexus ( in all its resplendent forms positive, negative and neutral) between sport and society, football is an arena into which I adamantly doh allow race to leverage outcomes. Not much different from how I function as a human being in other arenas.
Whatever de f**k this bullshit means... good fuh you that yuh could abandon yuh principles in de name ah football. I with Jah Gol and dem, cold, racist ass Russia could suck f**king salt where that world cup is concerned.
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While I recognize the nexus ( in all its resplendent forms positive, negative and neutral) between sport and society, football is an arena into which I adamantly doh allow race to leverage outcomes. Not much different from how I function as a human being in other arenas.
Whatever de f**k this bullshit means... good fuh you that yuh could abandon yuh principles in de name ah football. I with Jah Gol and dem, cold, racist ass Russia could suck f**king salt where that world cup is concerned.
Nothing I've stated detracts from, or compromises, my very clear principles regarding personal dignity. You may receive it as such, but that it is not. Do not presume this matter to be a simple case of cut and dry and black and white. It isn't as such - especially where one of the ultimate goals involves the assertion and maintenance of the obvious dignity of people of African and other descent.
I doh need any lessons on this (I could discuss the Gleneagles Agreement as a child and did) and I doh plan on gehhin wrapped up in an extended visceral exchange on the matter (but, who knows? I might if the discourse is wholesome and enlightening).
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
I could understand russia, but what wrong with qatar?? :thinking:
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
I could understand russia, but what wrong with qatar?? :thinking:
No spics, just camel-jockeys? :banginghead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
I could understand russia, but what wrong with qatar?? :thinking:
No spics, just camel-jockeys? :banginghead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
You back on dat again??
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allyuh know why de camel is known as the ship of the desert right?
It full of arab semen errr seamen
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Steups, I going where the hell I please ...
why de arse would you want to go there to enrich the coffers of these apes and dignify them with your presence. these people have been known to kill 'ethnic' children, let alone adults. let them pay dearly for their nationalist, zenophobic ideology
Funny enough, when I saw the "I goin where I please" that is precisely how I felt but Zandolie ah have to say, you struck a note there with the nationalist, zenophobic ideology If yuh doh want ethnic players then doh want ethnic people money either. With the state Europe is in.... lord help dem! Let dem hull dey tail!
Ah Love It! (borrowed)
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... that usage of "ethnic" is one that I challenge also. Ppl from the Caucasus not ethnic too? Careful what we absorb and replicate.
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... that usage of "ethnic" is one that I challenge also. Ppl from the Caucasus not ethnic too? Careful what we absorb and replicate.
The word ethnic is a troublesome one but the distinction is quite clear as to who they would like to see playing for them as such, from their description of what constitutes an acceptable choice; Chinese, Indian, Africans, Some Arabs, muslims, Jews, gays are all ruled out. I didn't see any objection to players from the Caucasus. If dey want to be so selective then the marginalized should themselves be selective in selecting where and who they will spend their hard earned cash on! Boycott dey ass if they can't see the errors of their ways!
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Can anyone conceive that this nebulous "they" doh want yuh $ anyhow?
As to the above ... I'm referring to the manner in which you used the word generally ... a lot of ppl use the word in a way that defines it as having no application to "white ppl" and solely applicable to everyone else, and that is nonsense .... and only serves to undergird the primacy of "white ppl".
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asylum, russians are a racist mess. playing strong and asserting your 'right' to walk anywhere you want might be empowering in theory, but the reality for the people who actually live there (africans, chinese, and yes even 'ethnic' caucasians) is very different. and st. petersburg is at the heart of ultra-right nationalism in that country. even caucasians are regularly intimidated, harrased, beaten and sometimes murdered, just for being caucasian.
now never mind the world cup was gift-wrapped and presented to these ape-people by a black man, our very own JW. of course the fans in zenit st. petersburg did not complain about that, did they? if they have such strong principles surely they don't want such an internationalist, globalist organization as FIFA coming there to spread their anti-racist, global harmony, kumbayah message right? after all their stadium will be be featured prominently, and is the second largest in use for 2018
in fact it would be a safe bet to speculate that money pass to allow russia to host the worldcup, correct? does your nexus ( in all its resplendent forms positive, negative and neutral) between sport and society, and very clear principles regarding personal dignity, allow you to walk into said corrupt, racist, hypocritical country without even so much as a tiny pin prick of concience? if so you are a better man than me
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Steups, I going where the hell I please ...
why de arse would you want to go there to enrich the coffers of these apes and dignify them with your presence. these people have been known to kill 'ethnic' children, let alone adults. let them pay dearly for their nationalist, zenophobic ideology
Funny enough, when I saw the "I goin where I please" that is precisely how I felt but Zandolie ah have to say, you struck a note there with the nationalist, zenophobic ideology If yuh doh want ethnic players then doh want ethnic people money either. With the state Europe is in.... lord help dem! Let dem hull dey tail!
Ah Love It! (borrowed)
them racist's taking a principled stand. good for them. lets help them keep non-european players, and non-european money, out of their game entirely
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
I could understand russia, but what wrong with qatar?? :thinking:
I just have no interest in going to a World Cup held in a country without either a football tradition or any cultural activities that are attractive to me. I really don't care how impressive their billion dollar skyscrapers are. Lastly I really don't want to deal with 41 degree heat while supposedly on vacation.
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
I could understand russia, but what wrong with qatar?? :thinking:
I just have no interest in going to a World Cup held in a country without either a football tradition or any cultural activities that are attractive to me. I really don't care how impressive their billion dollar skyscrapers are. Lastly I really don't want to deal with 41 degree heat while supposedly on vacation.
No football tradition? They've had a league for 60 years and they've managed through the years to attract some of the game's most colourful personalities to Qatar ... not to mention other influences on the game's global stage prior to being awarded the WC. Ah mean, we could stipulate that the US didn't have a football tradition and it hosted a WC arguably before it's time ... look where things are today. I doubt you would have been hesitant to attend WC games in the US in 1994.
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Come on, I couldn't name a single Qatari club or player off the top of my head. They've never even qualified for the World Cup. Worst than that they don't even challenge for the Asian Cup. I mean , even T&T with all of our depressing mediocrity reached the Semi Final of the Gold Cup. Excuse the tangent a bit but I find it difficult to acknowledge their footballing or even sporting credentials.
You're right I would have been less hesitant about USA in 94. I can actually see why FIFA would have decided to grant it to them .Its a huge market , they have a great commercial sporting culture and all the venues and expertise required to host successfully. They could host a World Cup next month if they were asked.
In any case don't let me hijack the thread. Russia on shit and I don't want any part of it. ;D
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The US WC was ah boss WC. All the stadium were full. And the football was good. Spain was dissapointed to say the least. US can host a WC anytime!!!!!
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
I could understand russia, but what wrong with qatar?? :thinking:
I just have no interest in going to a World Cup held in a country without either a football tradition or any cultural activities that are attractive to me. I really don't care how impressive their billion dollar skyscrapers are. Lastly I really don't want to deal with 41 degree heat while supposedly on vacation.
Breds i went to the middleast and tuh tell yuh the truth, there are only two place in that region that will not live up to your expectations, saudi arabia, bc it's super conservative and religious, and even then i found it to be pleasant, and yes they love football over there, it's there favorite past time.
another place that you may not enjoy iz iran, and with the exception of war torn countries like syria , lebonon, iraq and afghanistan, all the other countries on the arabian peninsula like dubai, qatar and oman and the UAE, them places real, nice horse, and the people friendly to ah fault,
and who tell yuh they doh love and have no football tradition? fella them ppl live for football, yes!
they love it too bad, plus you could drink all the alcohol yuh want, party like ah rock star, matter of fact they have some of the best clubs in the world! and yuh could even make fares if yuh soo desire, doh let no body fool yuh bout those arab gulf states bro, they real indulgent and love football way better than we trinis do, way better!
PS, as for being hot, bro these countries are on the coast and is no hotter than trini on it's hottest day, plus they have street AC blowing right through, and there's ah breeze of the water that makes the place bearable, much more than right here in america in the summer.
i was in florida ah few times for the summer, and i have to tell you that it was worst than being in the desert, now that iz hot!
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... that usage of "ethnic" is one that I challenge also. Ppl from the Caucasus not ethnic too? Careful what we absorb and replicate.
The word ethnic is a troublesome one but the distinction is quite clear as to who they would like to see playing for them as such, from their description of what constitutes an acceptable choice; Chinese, Indian, Africans, Some Arabs, muslims, Jews, gays are all ruled out. I didn't see any objection to players from the Caucasus. If dey want to be so selective then the marginalized should themselves be selective in selecting where and who they will spend their hard earned cash on! Boycott dey ass if they can't see the errors of their ways!
Some preliminary questions fuh you, Zando, and the skittish ;) Jah Gol.
Do you celebrate Crawford's Olympic gold?
Could you confirm that your planned boycott extends to not turning your TV on to view broadcasts of the matches?
Could you confirm whether you would support the non-participation of the CAF nations?
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I don't celebrate Crawfords gold as i was a little boy when he won.
I will likely view some games. However I do not generally watch TV, and I will view the games as I always do ManU, Real, Barca etc...at my good friend's sports bar eating food and drink I don't pay for, and providing minimal if not unmeasurable revenue or participation stats. You will rarely see me up in a foreign football thread on this site because I do not generally like or support corporate football or corporate sports for that matter. Definitely rather watch W-Connection VS another Caribbean side than big name Euro squad VS big name Euro squad. Hell I rather watch a CFL game over an NFL game ANY DAY, where men making $60,000 a season and working as firemen, truck drivers or trainers the rest of the year. Its not some esoteric principled stand, its just the way I do things.
Not supporting non-participation of anything. I just prefer to add as little as possible to the FIFA bottom line, circumstances permitting. If T&T were in the 2018 mix, I would watch them, but me eh going Russia to give them 'people' money straight outta my pocket.
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Jamal Gay is a no then .
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Jamal Gay is a no then .
He would be a No No!
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Come on, I couldn't name a single Qatari club or player off the top of my head. They've never even qualified for the World Cup. Worst than that they don't even challenge for the Asian Cup. I mean , even T&T with all of our depressing mediocrity reached the Semi Final of the Gold Cup. Excuse the tangent a bit but I find it difficult to acknowledge their footballing or even sporting credentials.
You're right I would have been less hesitant about USA in 94. I can actually see why FIFA would have decided to grant it to them .Its a huge market , they have a great commercial sporting culture and all the venues and expertise required to host successfully. They could host a World Cup next month if they were asked.
In any case don't let me hijack the thread. Russia on shit and I don't want any part of it. ;D
Well, it's relevant that Qatar has hosted the Asian Cup twice (most recently last year) ... from an infrastructure perspective and the hosting preparedness argument, this can't be ignored. It should also be noted that FIFA allowed the 2011 tournament to be held in January rather than July because of the heat you reference (but this was consistent with a FIFA prescription on confederation tournaments such that they could take place only in July or January).
As far as the challenging argument: Last year Qatar was eliminated in the quarterfinals of the tournament. To place this in perspective: Saudi Arabia and Bahrain didn't get that far.
It's fair to say that Qatar has been gradually positioning itself to host the WC as it has sought greater prestige on the world stage.
As far as football tradition ... a case could be made - by some - on that contention that the same applied to the 2002 WC (Japan & South Korea) and the 2010 WC (South Africa).
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Steups, I going where the hell I please ...
why de arse would you want to go there to enrich the coffers of these apes and dignify them with your presence. these people have been known to kill 'ethnic' children, let alone adults. let them pay dearly for their nationalist, zenophobic ideology
While I recognize the nexus ( in all its resplendent forms positive, negative and neutral) between sport and society, football is an arena into which I adamantly doh allow race to leverage outcomes. Not much different from how I function as a human being in other arenas.
Steups, I going where the hell I please ...
why de arse would you want to go there to enrich the coffers of these apes and dignify them with your presence. these people have been known to kill 'ethnic' children, let alone adults. let them pay dearly for their nationalist, zenophobic ideology
While I recognize the nexus ( in all its resplendent forms positive, negative and neutral) between sport and society, football is an arena into which I adamantly doh allow race to leverage outcomes. Not much different from how I function as a human being in other arenas.
even in the face of ah ass-whipping?
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Come on, I couldn't name a single Qatari club or player off the top of my head. They've never even qualified for the World Cup. Worst than that they don't even challenge for the Asian Cup. I mean , even T&T with all of our depressing mediocrity reached the Semi Final of the Gold Cup. Excuse the tangent a bit but I find it difficult to acknowledge their footballing or even sporting credentials.
You're right I would have been less hesitant about USA in 94. I can actually see why FIFA would have decided to grant it to them .Its a huge market , they have a great commercial sporting culture and all the venues and expertise required to host successfully. They could host a World Cup next month if they were asked.
In any case don't let me hijack the thread. Russia on shit and I don't want any part of it. ;D
Well, it's relevant that Qatar has hosted the Asian Cup twice (most recently last year) ... from an infrastructure perspective and the hosting preparedness argument, this can't be ignored. It should also be noted that FIFA allowed the 2011 tournament to be held in January rather than July because of the heat you reference (but this was consistent with a FIFA prescription on confederation tournaments such that they could take place only in July or January).
As far as the challenging argument: Last year Qatar was eliminated in the quarterfinals of the tournament. To place this in perspective: Saudi Arabia and Bahrain didn't get that far.
It's fair to say that Qatar has been gradually positioning itself to host the WC as it has sought greater prestige on the world stage.
As far as football tradition ... a case could be made - by some - on that contention that the same applied to the 2002 WC (Japan & South Korea) and the 2010 WC (South Africa).
Fair comment on their hosting the Asian Cup. I didn't know that to be honest.
As far as Japan and Korea goes I think they were far ahead of Qatar in terms of their football reputation albeit a non-stellar one.
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sooooo....who going world cup 2018?
I have no interest in attending that world cup or Qatar 2022.
I could understand russia, but what wrong with qatar?? :thinking:
I just have no interest in going to a World Cup held in a country without either a football tradition or any cultural activities that are attractive to me. I really don't care how impressive their billion dollar skyscrapers are. Lastly I really don't want to deal with 41 degree heat while supposedly on vacation.
Breds i went to the middleast and tuh tell yuh the truth, there are only two place in that region that will not live up to your expectations, saudi arabia, bc it's super conservative and religious, and even then i found it to be pleasant, and yes they love football over there, it's there favorite past time.
another place that you may not enjoy iz iran, and with the exception of war torn countries like syria , lebonon, iraq and afghanistan, all the other countries on the arabian peninsula like dubai, qatar and oman and the UAE, them places real, nice horse, and the people friendly to ah fault,
and who tell yuh they doh love and have no football tradition? fella them ppl live for football, yes!
they love it too bad, plus you could drink all the alcohol yuh want, party like ah rock star, matter of fact they have some of the best clubs in the world! and yuh could even make fares if yuh soo desire, doh let no body fool yuh bout those arab gulf states bro, they real indulgent and love football way better than we trinis do, way better!
PS, as for being hot, bro these countries are on the coast and is no hotter than trini on it's hottest day, plus they have street AC blowing right through, and there's ah breeze of the water that makes the place bearable, much more than right here in america in the summer.
i was in florida ah few times for the summer, and i have to tell you that it was worst than being in the desert, now that iz hot!
This real surprising. Good post
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I don't celebrate Crawfords gold as i was a little boy when he won.
I will likely view some games. However I do not generally watch TV, and I will view the games as I always do ManU, Real, Barca etc...at my good friend's sports bar eating food and drink I don't pay for, and providing minimal if not unmeasurable revenue or participation stats. You will rarely see me up in a foreign football thread on this site because I do not generally like or support corporate football or corporate sports for that matter. Definitely rather watch W-Connection VS another Caribbean side than big name Euro squad VS big name Euro squad. Hell I rather watch a CFL game over an NFL game ANY DAY, where men making $60,000 a season and working as firemen, truck drivers or trainers the rest of the year. Its not some esoteric principled stand, its just the way I do things.
Not supporting non-participation of anything. I just prefer to add as little as possible to the FIFA bottom line, circumstances permitting. If T&T were in the 2018 mix, I would watch them, but me eh going Russia to give them 'people' money straight outta my pocket.
Zando yuh moving like a rodent rong a piece a cheese in a rat trap ... ;D
davideephraim, do good and live :P ... where yuh dey?
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I don't celebrate Crawfords gold as i was a little boy when he won.
I will likely view some games. However I do not generally watch TV, and I will view the games as I always do ManU, Real, Barca etc...at my good friend's sports bar eating food and drink I don't pay for, and providing minimal if not unmeasurable revenue or participation stats. You will rarely see me up in a foreign football thread on this site because I do not generally like or support corporate football or corporate sports for that matter. Definitely rather watch W-Connection VS another Caribbean side than big name Euro squad VS big name Euro squad. Hell I rather watch a CFL game over an NFL game ANY DAY, where men making $60,000 a season and working as firemen, truck drivers or trainers the rest of the year. Its not some esoteric principled stand, its just the way I do things.
Not supporting non-participation of anything. I just prefer to add as little as possible to the FIFA bottom line, circumstances permitting. If T&T were in the 2018 mix, I would watch them, but me eh going Russia to give them 'people' money straight outta my pocket.
Zando yuh moving like a rodent rong a piece a cheese in a rat trap ... ;D
davideephraim, do good and live :P ... where yuh dey?
Ent?
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I don't celebrate Crawfords gold as i was a little boy when he won.
I will likely view some games. However I do not generally watch TV, and I will view the games as I always do ManU, Real, Barca etc...at my good friend's sports bar eating food and drink I don't pay for, and providing minimal if not unmeasurable revenue or participation stats. You will rarely see me up in a foreign football thread on this site because I do not generally like or support corporate football or corporate sports for that matter. Definitely rather watch W-Connection VS another Caribbean side than big name Euro squad VS big name Euro squad. Hell I rather watch a CFL game over an NFL game ANY DAY, where men making $60,000 a season and working as firemen, truck drivers or trainers the rest of the year. Its not some esoteric principled stand, its just the way I do things.
Not supporting non-participation of anything. I just prefer to add as little as possible to the FIFA bottom line, circumstances permitting. If T&T were in the 2018 mix, I would watch them, but me eh going Russia to give them 'people' money straight outta my pocket.
Zando yuh moving like a rodent rong a piece a cheese in a rat trap ... ;D
how so....?
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Bilic defends Russian football
15 February 2013 Updated 16:09 GMT
By Mani Djazmi - BBC Sport
Lokomotiv Moscow coach Slaven Bilic has come out in defence of Russian football, claiming that accusations of crowd trouble and racism are greatly exaggerated.
In November, Dinamo Moscow goalkeeper Anton Shunin was injured when fans of Zenit St Petersburg threw a firecracker onto the pitch during a Russian Premier League match.
The match was subsequently abandoned and Dinamo were awarded a 3-0 win.
Zenit were again in the headlines a month later when their biggest fans' group, Landskrona, published a manifesto, urging the club not to sign any black or gay players.
But the 44-year-old Bilic, who ended a six-year spell in charge of Croatia after Euro 2012 to join Lokomotiv, thinks these incidents are not indicative of Russian football.
"On the contrary, it's a very peaceful atmosphere at the stadiums," he told the BBC's World Football programme.
"I follow football of course, I love football and there were more racist incidents in Italy and Spain from after the Euros, but you can't say those countries have a problem with racism.
"I live in Russia, I watch Russia and as a nation they are very, very polite and they're very peaceful.
"If you take out some idiots shouting at or booing the coloured guy in one or a couple of games, you can't then say the whole league or the whole country is like that. On the contrary, it isn't.
"We have many coloured guys. We were in Grozny, we were in Zenit, we were everywhere. Not even once have I noticed it."
The focus on issues of crowd behaviour in Russia is likely to intensify as the 2018 World Cup, hosted by Russia, gets closer.
But ex-West Ham and Everton defender Bilic is confident of a successful tournament.
"Like every World Cup it's going to be better than the one before," added Bilic. "With Russia, it's going to give them what they are still missing. They've got the money, they have the passion, they have a good league and the tradition, it's a huge country and they've got everything apart from good stadiums. "They need to build new stadiums and they're going to do it for the World Cup. They're going to use that situation like Poland did (for the 2012 Euros) and I think it's going to be a great World Cup."
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I don't celebrate Crawfords gold as i was a little boy when he won.
I will likely view some games. However I do not generally watch TV, and I will view the games as I always do ManU, Real, Barca etc...at my good friend's sports bar eating food and drink I don't pay for, and providing minimal if not unmeasurable revenue or participation stats. You will rarely see me up in a foreign football thread on this site because I do not generally like or support corporate football or corporate sports for that matter. Definitely rather watch W-Connection VS another Caribbean side than big name Euro squad VS big name Euro squad. Hell I rather watch a CFL game over an NFL game ANY DAY, where men making $60,000 a season and working as firemen, truck drivers or trainers the rest of the year. Its not some esoteric principled stand, its just the way I do things.
Not supporting non-participation of anything. I just prefer to add as little as possible to the FIFA bottom line, circumstances permitting. If T&T were in the 2018 mix, I would watch them, but me eh going Russia to give them 'people' money straight outta my pocket.
Zando yuh moving like a rodent rong a piece a cheese in a rat trap ... ;D
davideephraim, do good and live :P ... where yuh dey?
Ah was missin in action. My apologies. Well yuh have meh dey with the strictness of de boycott because while I doh really watch russian ball I for sure dont take off de TV when their Teams who play in Europa, champions and which ever other highly visibly cups are performing. I wonder if the firmness of these Russian supporters' stand is rooted in pride or ignorance. Ah guess de real question is will I go if TNT is in that World Cup. That I suspect seperates the men from the boys; I'll be in this corner playing with my yo-yo!
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supporters' stand is rooted in pride or ignorance.
somewhwere in between or both.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2013/mar/22/kevin-prince-boateng-racism-video
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Shaka Hislop suffered racism from Newcastle United fans
By Neil Cameron (Evening Chronicle)
Shaka Hislop was filling up his car in a garage directly across from St James Park when his own supporters racially abused him.
It was the first and last time it happened to him during three years in Newcastle.
This was in 1995, not long after he had joined the club and immediately established himself as a hero to the Toon Army.
Hislop couldnt see the four young lads standing at the bus stop on the opposite side of the road, but he could hear what they said well enough.
His wife Desha was in the car and she also heard her husband being called a black b******. It was an awful moment for which they were both completely unprepared, given the welcome they had received.
So the big man turns around to remonstrate with them, and one of the lads shouts out, its Shaka. They then run over and ask for his autograph, recalled Ged Grebby, founder and chief executive of Show Racism the Red Card.
The story is almost funny in that it shows just how stupid racism is.
Those kids felt the need to shout abuse at a total stranger, but when they realised it was one of the black guys they liked, well thats different.
Read More... (http://socawarriors.net/foreign-based/foreign-based-news/foreign-based-news/12501-shaka-hislop-suffered-racism-from-newcastle-united-fans.html)
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I wonder how many of us would've taken the high road and give the youths their autograph like Shaka did in that situation?
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I woulda tell dem go suck ah dog's cock before they got my sig!
i real merciless and bad mind when it comes to racism. there's no way you could abuse me and praise me in the same breath, especially when yuh find out it's ah celeb, so yuh change yuh tone, and i must oblige? nah! can't do it, sorry.
shaka have real belly, ah give him dat.
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I warning you...it long.
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9338962/when-beautiful-game-turns-ugly
(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0604/otl_itlrac_2000.jpg)
ERONA, Italy -- Right up until he started quoting Hitler and dropping N-bombs, my new friend was a great dude. I'll call him The Hooligan. A more generous host would be hard to find. Soon after we met, he made sure we stopped at the one place in town that served Campari correctly. He speaks eight languages, and seemed nothing like the Hellas Verona fans I'd read about, the neo-fascist, neo-Nazi, racist thugs. The Hooligan insisted the Veronese just have a dark sense of humor and refuse to wear the yoke of modern political correctness.
Now we are headed toward the terraces of the stadium. Soon I'll be packed in with the hard-core fans, three people for every seat, chest to back, eyes burning from smoke bombs. Near the entrance to the stands, I ask The Hooligan to translate any chants hurled down at the players. He is an old-school soccer thug, not on a first-name basis with impulse control. His eyes are slate blue, and his face has darkened with intensity as kickoff approaches. His voice is a sharp blade.
"How about, 'You're a f---ing n-----'?" he says, and we walk inside.
Lost in the Pontine Marshes
EnlargeBenito Mussolini
Benito Mussolini in 1936. AP Photo
This story is about a red motorcycle.
The ghost of Mussolini rides through the swampland he turned into farms, the sound of his bike's engine going tom-tom-tom in the dark. Some locals swear it's real. A famous Italian novelist, Antonio Pennacchi, saw the ghost when he was a child. Many still love Mussolini in Latina, one of the towns the dictator built south of Rome after draining the marshes. The old cab driver remembers not having to lock your door when Il Duce ran the country. The municipal building is still shaped like an M, in his honor, a reminder of a past that cannot be seen unless you fly high over the confusion below.
Pennacchi lectures me that American democracy is not morally superior. What Mussolini did in Africa, we did to the Indians. What Mussolini did to the Jews, we did to the African-Americans. He barks when I ask him to put the nostalgia for fascism in context with the epidemic of racist chants in soccer stadiums, especially the slurs against black AC Milan stars Kevin-Prince Boateng and Mario Balotelli.
"You are simplifying!" he says.
He stands up, imitating the way Balotelli appeals for a foul to the officials, moving around like he's been shot, the curse words flying in Italian.
"Balotelli is an asshole," he says. "No matter his color, he's an asshole."
The steam runs out.
"We are all assholes," he says. "Man is a beast."
Pennacchi goes outside and sinks into a plastic chair, lighting a Marlboro. He exhales a big cloud of smoke, inhaling back through his nose, quoting a philosopher I don't know.
"The Hitler inside every one of us," he says. "The good and the bad are mixed inside."
He ashes his cigarette.
"The road to civilization is very long," he says.
Dispatch from the madness
I've given up hope of ever fully understanding the fractured things I saw while chasing the Serie A soccer circus around Italy. Let me be honest. I got sent to write about racism, which I found in staggering amounts. But Italy isn't like America, and racism there is tied into a thousand years of feuds, and hatred of anyone different, even if they're from only a few miles away, and fascism, and the recent wave of immigration. That's all in here, but it's unfair to hide my predicament, which became clear after only a day or two. I'd fallen into a parallel universe of contradictions.
EnlargeKevin-Prince Boateng
AC Milan star Kevin-Prince Boateng walked off the pitch after he and some of his teammates were subjected to racist chants by fans in a friendly against lower division club Pro Patria. AP Photo/Emilio Andreoli
The rabbit hole opened when Boateng walked off the pitch during a match in Busto Arsizio. It was Jan. 3, in a small mountain town in the north of the country, a picture postcard of bell towers and winding streets. Serie A, the top division of Italian soccer, was in its mid-season break, so Milan had scheduled a friendly against a small local club, Pro Patria. When Boateng touched the ball for the first time, a small part of the crowd made monkey noises: Oo -- oo -- oo -- oo.
It was a little stadium, and Boateng could see their faces. Fifty or so people called him an animal. He locked eyes with them and could see the hate. He pointed to his head, to say, "You're an idiot." The chants went on for 20 minutes: Oo -- oo -- oo -- oo.
Boateng had been abused before and had ignored it. This time, he kicked the ball at the fans, took off his jersey and walked to the locker room. His teammates followed. Something important happened at this moment, which didn't get reported much in the frenzy that followed: Most of the stadium stood and applauded him. Only the small group of fans screamed and whistled. Some laughed.
ESPN The Magazine
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The team boarded its bus and headed back to the AC Milan compound. When they arrived, Boateng insisted they practice. He needed to run. Tension still filled the air. The managers rolled out the balls, and Robinho immediately kicked one off the pitch, turned to Boateng and asked if they could be finished. Everyone laughed, and the jokes began, about firing a ball into the stands whenever they were losing. The players thought they'd made it through one bad day.
They were wrong.
The Rest here... (http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9338962/when-beautiful-game-turns-ugly)
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Good read. Not very surprising, but more and more Balotelli strikes the pose of a Cain... a man without a country.
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June 6, 2013
Big Games, Big Issues (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/sports/soccer/jozy-altidores-soccer-challenges.html?ref=sports)
By SAM BORDEN (New York Times)
WASHINGTON For the first 20 minutes, Jozy Altidore talked effortlessly about racism, his thoughts and feelings on the subject clearly well honed.
In an interview in a hotel restaurant here last weekend, Altidore, a striker for the United States soccer team, navigated some difficult memories with ease. The game in January during which thousands of Dutch league fans chanted monkey noises at him? He seemed unfazed by the recounting. The vile language he heard at an under-17 tournament? He did not blink as he described the hateful scene.
Born in November 1989 to Haitian parents in New Jersey and raised in Boca Raton, Fla., Altidore has encountered discrimination for much of his life. When the subject of Italy was raised, though, he hesitated.
After scoring 38 goals last season for his Dutch club team, AZ, Altidore is all but certain to transfer to a more prominent team this summer. Recent reports indicated that Lazio, a team in Italys Serie A, was interested in adding him to its roster.
That kind of move, whether to Lazio or another team in Italy, would be a significant opportunity for Altidore to grow as a player. Yet he paused as he considered the possibility last weekend, ahead of the United States World Cup qualifying matches that begin Friday in Jamaica. He knew the subtext of any move to Italy: in the past year, incidents of racial abuse have sullied the image of Italian soccer, including several nasty situations involving Lazio fans.
Yes, racism persists in European soccer in general, but its presence in Italy is pronounced. So after what he endured in January in the Netherlands, could Altidore really see himself voluntarily moving to a country where another incident was all but assured?
He looked out the window.
Racism in football is not a little problem; its a big problem, a problem that is more alive than people realize, he said finally. To go and face it at the root? It would almost make it more appealing to go there.
After a moment, he added: Im not saying Italy is a racist country, but it would be a good opportunity to take a stance. Italy is a stage.
Then he shrugged. If anything, he said, it would make it feel like theres more to win, theres more to gain.
The issue is both simple and complex for Altidore. For years, he has been defined by a puzzling inconsistency, the result of scrutiny since he was 16 and expectations that were almost impossible to meet.
At 17, he juggled prom plans with practices for the Red Bulls. (He was allowed to miss a game once to attend the dance.) At 18, he was on the cover of a soccer video game. At 21, he arrived in the Netherlands, having bounced from New York to Spain to England back to Spain and then to Turkey.
Now, he is finally showing signs of delivering the production predicted for him since Adidas signed him as a teenager in 2006. Then, the company saw nearly unlimited potential: a young, athletic American goal scorer who could be in the spotlight for years.
We always look for icons, said Chris McGuire, the head of sports marketing for Adidas. Jozy was that. He was targeted as a future star for club teams and the national teams.
It was not until recently, however, that Altidore broke out. And even with his abundant scoring in the Dutch league, there are no guarantees the success will translate. He scored in the United States exhibition victory over Germany on Sunday, his first international goal since 2011. Yet Jrgen Klinsmann, the United States coach, cautioned that there might yet be a ways for Altidore to go before he could become the striker fans have craved for years.
The international game is a different speed than the Dutch league is, Klinsmann said. Youre talking about two or three different levels.
That uncertainty is part of the reason Altidore is so passionate about addressing the issue of racism in soccer. Whatever happens in terms of his career as a player on the field, he said, he wants to be certain that he does everything he can to address an issue that he knows, firsthand, continues to have an insidious presence in the world game.
Awful incidents cropped up seemingly weekly throughout Europe last season, with the ugliness including racist chants in the stands, bigoted signs waved by spectators and bananas thrown at black players. There was also the much-scrutinized criminal trial in England involving Chelseas John Terry, who admitted to using racist language toward an opponent during a game in 2011.
Were all human, and we all make mistakes, but at the end of the day, John Terry has to live with that, Altidore said. Thats the biggest punishment. You only get so many ways to define who you are, and that is never going to go away for him.
On Jan. 29, Altidore was targeted by fans during AZs Dutch Cup match at Den Bosch. Teammates told him they had heard the monkey chants early in the game, but it was not until Altidore chased a pass into the corner near one particular section of the stands that he became fully aware of what was happening. Then, after he was awarded a penalty kick and converted it, the monkey chants and racist taunts grew louder.
The episode hurt Altidore on multiple levels. First, he was stunned simply by the overt nature of the hate. Second, he was crushed because he had come to adore living in the Netherlands, having built a network of friends there. He had favorite restaurants and cafes. He loved his apartment.
It was like moving into a new neighborhood and youre getting along with everyone and then something happens and all of a sudden you feel like an outcast, he said. The referee asked me if I wanted to stop the game, but I said no. I cant fight 8,000 people. I cant. I didnt want to stop because I didnt want them to see that they hurt me.
The episode was hardly Altidores first encounter with racism, although the intensity of the experiences has varied. At age 7 or 8 in Florida, he said, a neighboring child told him and his sister that they could not ride their bicycles home from school on a particular road because black kids arent allowed to take that shortcut. At a youth tournament in Ireland as a teenager, he was confronted for the first time with large-scale racism as he heard hateful chants from a group of Irish fans.
While he played in Europe, there were more low-profile occurrences you know, things at restaurants or whatever, Altidore said but the biggest test of his patience surely came in the Netherlands.
Not long after that January game, Altidore received an e-mail from an official of FIFA, global soccers governing body. He and Kevin-Prince Boateng, a German-Ghanaian, were the only players selected to join a task force organized by FIFA that was charged with addressing racism in soccer. .
Boateng, who plays in Italy, walked off the field after being racially abused by fans in an exhibition last season. UEFA, which oversees soccer in Europe, and FIFA recently announced stricter punishments in an attempt to curb that sort of episode.
Altidore explained last weekend that he had done his best to keep his focus singular. He is not concerning himself with the transfer rumors, he said, and he has long since stopped reading articles about himself, knowing that many will mention his lackluster track record with the national team.
Certainly he hopes that these next few qualifiers will allow him to add to his underwhelming total of 14 goals, in 57 appearances, for the United States.
I know what I need to do; I dont need anyone to tell me, he said.
But even if the goals do not come, Altidore has designs on improvement elsewhere.
Im not a civil-rights leader; its not like Im leading marches, he said, but he quickly added that he also believed he could help effect change.
Many Americans may think of Europe as wholly socially progressive, but Altidore has seen and heard the nastiness that lingers. Asked whether he thought he would see a day when racism in soccer was mostly stamped out, Altidore shook his head sadly.
Unfortunately, no, he said. Its something thats too big, too ingrained in too many places.
He stood, ready to head to a team dinner. Hopefully we can leave it in a better place than it was before, he said. But its very deep-seated. Its more alive than people think.
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Jun 17, 2013 3:45:00 PM
The secretary general of the 2022 organizing committee has admitted the finals could be moved from the summer due to concerns over the heat
RIO DE JANEIRO -- Qatar's World Cup chief has said the Gulf state will consider calls to host the 2022 finals during the winter.
Last week, UEFA secretary general Gianni Infantino joined the calls for the tournament to be held in the winter amid fears over the scorching temperatures close to 120 degrees in the Qatari summer.
Hassan Al Thawadi, secretary general of the Qatar 2022 supreme committee for the World Cup, insists that the nation is planning for a June tournament in nine years, but admits it is prepared to alter the schedule.
There are significant voices in the football community who are saying winter would be perfect, said Al Thawadi at the FT/IFA Business of Football Summit in Rio de Janeiro.
We are willing to have that debate to decide which is the best time.
Its the World Cup, its not Qatars cup. If we dont sit down and listen to what the world wants, we would be doing an injustice to the World Cup.
The way I see it, a number of people have spoken about their preference for it to move. It would have to be discussed with the football community.
While Al Thawadi is open to a winter World Cup, which would face considerable opposition from European clubs, he remains adamant that Qatar can host a summer tournament.
Concerns have been raised over player safety while Qatars proposed air conditioning system inside the stadiums has yet to be fully tested.
But Al Thawadi said: When we bid for the World Cup our intention was always for it to be in June. The weather is not very bad in Doha in June, its not so bad.
Ive had many people come to Qatar during June and it wasnt the horror story people expected, that they would burst in flames. Its not armageddon.
http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1786/fifa/2013/06/17/4055873/qatar-chief-hints-at-winter-world-cup-switch?ICID=HP_HN_2 (http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1786/fifa/2013/06/17/4055873/qatar-chief-hints-at-winter-world-cup-switch?ICID=HP_HN_2)
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Watch garbage FIFA does for money.
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Todays Results.
Dinamo Zagreb 0 - 2 Austria Vienna
Fenerbahce 0 - 3 Arsenal
Ludogorets Razgrad 2 - 4 FC Basel
Schalke 04 1 - 1 PAOK Salonika
Steaua Bucuresti 1 - 1 Legia Warsaw
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Champions League Draw Live
Group A
Manchester United
Shakhtar Donetsk
Bayer Leverkusen
Real Sociedad
Group B
Real Madrid
Juventus
Galatasaray
FC Copenhagen
Group C
Benfica
PSG
Olmpiakos
Anderlecht
Group D
Bayern Munich
CSKA Moscow
Manchester City
Viktoria Plzen
Group E
Chelsea
Schalke
Basel
Steau Bucharest
Group F
Arsenal
Marseille
Borussia Dortmund
Napoli
Group G
Porto
Atletico Madrid
Zenit St Petersburg
FC Austria Vienna
Group H
Barcelona
Milan
Ajax
Celtic
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Looks like Bale really going to have to work for that transfer fee with this Real Madrid draw.
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Steups Arsenal get brush with that draw yes...
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Man-U in a tough group. Moyes will have his work cut out for him...
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Group F is the group of death in my opinion.
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Steups Arsenal get brush with that draw yes...
Gunners had relatively easy groups the last few years. This was bound to happen sometime. BVB is real pressure but we can handle Napoli. Won't be easy though.
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(https://sphotos-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1173656_10151677766257946_1452330343_n.jpg)
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Group F is the group of death in my opinion.
Agreed! Teams go surely get F-ed in that group...
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Steups Arsenal get brush with that draw yes...
Gunners had relatively easy groups the last few years. This was bound to happen sometime. BVB is real pressure but we can handle Napoli. Won't be easy though.
Napoli and BVB advancing from that group.
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Steups Arsenal get brush with that draw yes...
Gunners had relatively easy groups the last few years. This was bound to happen sometime. BVB is real pressure but we can handle Napoli. Won't be easy though.
Napoli and BVB advancing from that group.
Possibly. I wouldn't say Napoli are any better off than Arsenal.
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Steups Arsenal get brush with that draw yes...
Gunners had relatively easy groups the last few years. This was bound to happen sometime. BVB is real pressure but we can handle Napoli. Won't be easy though.
Napoli and BVB advancing from that group.
Possibly. I wouldn't say Napoli are any better off than Arsenal.
Yeah good matchup, should be some good games.
PSG get an easy ride to the 2nd round.
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Tomorrow Games
Group A
2:45 PM Manchester United v Bayer Leverkusen
2:45 PM Real Sociedad v Shakhtar Donetsk
Group B
2:45 PM FC Copenhagen v Juventus
2:45 PM Galatasaray v Real Madrid
Group C
2:45 PM Benfica v Anderlecht
2:45 PM Olympiakos v Paris Saint-Germain
Group D
2:45 PM Bayern Munich v CSKA Moscow
2:45 PM Viktoria Plzen v Manchester City
Wednesday
Group E
2:45 PM Chelsea v FC Basel
2:45 PM Schalke 04 v Steaua Bucuresti
Group F
2:45 PM Marseille v Arsenal
2:45 PM Napoli v Borussia Dortmund
Group H
2:45 PM Atletico Madrid v Zenit St Petersburg
2:45 PM Austria Vienna v FC Porto
Group G
2:45 PM AC Milan v Celtic
2:45 PM Barcelona v Ajax Amsterdam
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Vladimir Weiss goal for Olympiakos was nasty!!!
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Rooney greedy ass!!...and now they equalize!!
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Weiss, Toure and Cristiana
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Vladimir Weiss goal for Olympiakos was nasty!!!
Sick! Better than Ronaldo's in my book
http://www.youtube.com/v/Sn-ddUnZgZo
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Weiss made a great run but the shot took a big deflection.
I also loved Luisao's goal because he's a big defender but he finished it like a born striker.
http://www.youtube.com/v/U5rK_Z4eIss
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Flickin Basel? >:(
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Oh my Chelsea!
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Flickin Basel? >:(
Didn't Basel shock Man Utd. two years ago too? Sleep on dem at allyuh peril.
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Flickin Basel? >:(
Didn't Basel shock Man Utd. two years ago too? Sleep on dem at allyuh peril.
Agreed. Basel is poison!
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TODAY
Group E
2:45 PM Schalke 04 v Chelsea
2:45 PM Steaua Bucuresti v FC Basel
Group F
2:45 PM Arsenal v Borussia Dortmund
2:45 PM Marseille v Napoli
Group G
2:45 PM Austria Vienna v Atletico Madrid
2:45 PM FC Porto v Zenit St Petersburg
Group H
2:45 PM AC Milan v Barcelona
2:45 PM Celtic v Ajax Amsterdam
TOMORROW
Group A
2:45 PM Bayer Leverkusen v Shakhtar Donetsk
2:45 PM Manchester United v Real Sociedad
Group B
2:45 PM Galatasaray v FC Copenhagen
2:45 PM Real Madrid v Juventus
Group C
2:45 PM Anderlecht v Paris Saint-Germain
2:45 PM Benfica v Olympiakos
Group D
12:00 PM CSKA Moscow v Manchester City
2:45 PM Bayern Munich v Viktoria Plzen
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Arsenal are riding high with Ozil - totally changed the mentality as for 10 years they were semi-ambitious youngsters. Showing ambition has really done wonders and they'll make the Semis I'm sure. Manchester who knows - with bad league form cups can buck the trend. Chelsea are consistent, especially with Jos at the helm, and Man City are another dice roll.
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Make sure allyuh see Zlatan's third.
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Make sure allyuh see Zlatan's third.
Dis man have a flair for the spectacular! Da goal was like ah flekkin laser beam! I doh care wha nobody say I always enjoy watching him play. Not just for the goals but also for his ability to find players and create opportunities as well. Is no wonder his teams are almost always league winners.
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Make sure allyuh see Zlatan's third.
http://www.youtube.com/v/sS_uOsF0GXA
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Arsenal are riding high with Ozil - totally changed the mentality as for 10 years they were semi-ambitious youngsters. Showing ambition has really done wonders and they'll make the Semis I'm sure. Manchester who knows - with bad league form cups can buck the trend. Chelsea are consistent, especially with Jos at the helm, and Man City are another dice roll.
Semi finals this year might be a step too far for Arsenal I'm sorry to say. Perhaps if they get their wingers back for the knockout phase and they don't have too many new injuries. Quarters I think.
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Make sure allyuh see Zlatan's third.
Dis man have a flair for the spectacular! Da goal was like ah flekkin laser beam! I doh care wha nobody say I always enjoy watching him play. Not just for the goals but also for his ability to find players and create opportunities as well. Is no wonder his teams are almost always league winners.
Who would you rather see in the WC, Zlatan or CR7?
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Make sure allyuh see Zlatan's third.
Dis man have a flair for the spectacular! Da goal was like ah flekkin laser beam! I doh care wha nobody say I always enjoy watching him play. Not just for the goals but also for his ability to find players and create opportunities as well. Is no wonder his teams are almost always league winners.
Who would you rather see in the WC, Zlatan or CR7?
Dan I rell upset one ha to get eliminate oui! Both are very special players in different ways. I really can't choose.
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Make sure allyuh see Zlatan's third.
Dis man have a flair for the spectacular! Da goal was like ah flekkin laser beam! I doh care wha nobody say I always enjoy watching him play. Not just for the goals but also for his ability to find players and create opportunities as well. Is no wonder his teams are almost always league winners.
Who would you rather see in the WC, Zlatan or CR7?
Both have played in two World Cups, but Zlatan has never scored a goal in de tournament, and Ronaldo has scored two. I would say de WC would be better off with Ronaldo playing because he in his prime, and he go be in any kinda talk concerning who is de best player in de world right now.
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Both have played in two World Cups, but Zlatan has never scored a goal in de tournament, and Ronaldo has scored two. I would say de WC would be better off with Ronaldo playing because he in his prime, and he go be in any kinda talk concerning who is de best player in de world right now.
Agreed... plus Zlatan is a kinda nanny. Ronaldo have his ways, but I could deal with he primadonna issues more than I could suffer Zlatan.
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Ronaldo
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UEFA makes farcical response to Yaya racism; but whither Webb and Blatter?
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
Shhhh! Did you hear that?
That was the sound of footballs highly paid administrators sending a message out that racism would not be tolerated. And it was not emphatic enough to stir a sleeping baby.
The UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body ordered today that CSKA Moscow must close one stand of the Arena Khimi Stadium for its next Champions League match after its spectators were found guilty of racially abusing Manchester City and Ivory Coast star Yaya Toure.
It was the least UEFA could do. Really, it was.
According to Article 14 of UEFAs Disciplinary Regulations: If one or more of a member association or clubs supporters engage in (racist or discriminatory behaviour), the member association or club responsible is punished with a minimum of a partial stadium closure.
Take a bow, UEFA president Michel Platini.
Platini, during his previous incarnation as a top class footballer, once worked closely with persons of African heritage like former France teammate Jean Tigana.
His office buddies are not as diverse anymore. The UEFA executive committee that Platini heads comprises 16 other officials; 15 are middle-aged or elderly white men while the other is a middle-aged white woman.
But that is not to say the presence of more minorities in administration necessarily makes your body any better at this stuff. Nest pas, Jeffrey Webb?
Webb, who is Jack Warners successor as CONCACAF president, requested a meeting with Toure in his capacity as the FIFA anti-racism task force.
The Cayman Islands banker emerged from that discussion with some forthright opinions. But, bizarrely, they were all about the England FA.
The (English) game must reflect society and the community, Webb told the BBC. It doesnt do so Many of (the players of African descent) are becoming very demoralised and these are issues, of course, that we hope the FA will take on.
And what about Russia and its racist fans?
They are getting the 2018 World Cup and FIFA president Sepp Blatter warned that it is impossible to even contemplate moving the showpiece tournament. Do not waste your breath.
Yet, always happy to have his cake and eat it too, Blatter then talked up FIFAs fight against racism with the dreaded zero tolerance clich.
If we are not able to go zero tolerance, said Blatter, we have failed.
No reporter apparently interrupted Blatter or Webbs lectures to insist on more details.
If Webb was so concerned about the shortage of black administrators in England, what did he think about the fact that, according to its website, FIFAs anti-racism task force has just two confirmed members, Webb and Ivory Coast administrator Jacques Anouma? (There were just over a dozen participants at the sole meeting since its formation.)
Why has this body met just once since its formation in May, Mr Webb? And, if FIFA thinks so highly of its anti-racism work, why not make it a standing committee instead?
And, Mr Blatter, why must a club be found guilty of two cases of racist abuse before FIFA applies even a partial stadium ban? Does the term zero tolerance mean something different within FIFAs corridors than it does in the rest of the world?
Toures case further highlights the fact that footballs most precious resource, the players, still does not receive the bare minimum in human dignity at the workplace. And UEFA does not think the players deserve any better either.
If Toure had retorted with so much as a gesture to the CSKA Moscow fans, then according to Article 54 of the FIFA Disciplinary Code, he could have been suspended for two matches and given a minimum fine of CH 5,000 (TT$35,668).
Perhaps Platini and his executive committee members are too out of touch with the young employees whose work continues to make football the most popular sport in the world.
Might I suggest that, twice a month on Wednesdays, the UEFA executive should allow several hundred hooligans to come into their office and scream the most belittling and obscene insults at them for hours in front of their family and friends.
On those Wednesday mornings, as they head for work, the UEFA bigwigs would know how the likes of Theo Walcott, Ramires and Didier Drogba feel when they face a flight to the more extreme corners of the Eastern Bloc. Maybe that will provoke a bright idea from Platinis gang about dealing with this scourge.
And, before Toure considers a World Cup boycott, perhaps he and his colleagues should think about where FIFPro, the worldwide representative organisation for all professional players, stands in this matter too. Racist abuse on the football field is at least partly a labour issue for players, after all.
Bear one thing mind, though; whatever one thinks about UEFA: Webb and Blatter, with their empty words and fake smiles, are probably worse.
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de African and Americas countries have de power to change dat but ah guess receiving money is more important.
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Excellent article by John Barnes concerning racism in football
From The Guardian Monday 4th November
I'm not interested in what happened to Yaya Tour at CSKA Moscow as far as I'm concerned their supporters can abuse who they want because, for me, what happened in Russia is the tip of a wider issue and, quite frankly, something of a smokescreen. For instance, how many black coaches are there in this country? Very few, yet all we're focusing on is CSKA Moscow, and the more we push for clubs like them to get banned or have their stadiums shut down the more we don't need to look at what is going on here.
The truth is that those at the top of British football do not care about getting rid of racism, they just don't want to hear it or see it. As soon as someone like Tour or Danny Rose gets abused in Eastern Europe there is shock and outrage from players, clubs and the authorities, yet no one is speaking about the people living in inner cities like Brixton who, because of their appearance and their background, have become completely disenfranchised from society. Why don't they care? Because the powers-that-be have enough wealth to not worry about these people.
Black players, in particular, should be tackling these issues because ultimately it will affect them when they retire. There are so many intelligent former black players, guys like Luther Blissett and Cyrille Regis, who never got a chance to become a top manager or a top coach because of the perception that surrounds people who look like them. They are black which, for many, means they are good athletes but incapable of being anything above and beyond that.
To a large extent this is down to unconscious racism and probably 99% of us are guilty of that I know I am. We all have preconceptions of people based on what we have been told about them and their race and ethnicity.
I still come across managers of a certain generation, those in their fifties and older, who say to me: "I don't see you as black", and think that is a compliment. So what, I don't walk around with my jeans down by my arse, smoking a spliff, so that means I'm not black? These are the attitudes we need to change if black people as a whole are going to progress, and the only way we can achieve that is through education.
This is what footballers have to do they cannot directly affect society but what they can do is use their standing in this country to make a wider audience aware of the wider issues surrounding race and stress the importance of understanding that what they have been told about a certain group of people is, in the main, wrong.
That, for instance, the best occupations black people can aspire to is being a footballer, or a runner, or a singer. People look at Barack Obama and say: "See, black people can be President" no they can't. Any black person who has been successful, particularly Obama, has been lifted out of blackness and stands as the exception.
We need to talk openly about perceptions and not be afraid of the fact that we all have different views about different people based on how they look. There is nothing racist about an open, honest dialogue and it is certainly more productive then pointing the finger at the CSKA Moscow fans, or at Luis Surez or John Terry, and demanding they are punished.
Personally, I don't blame Surez or Terry for what they did they are simply products of a society and environment that allows them to think it is OK to speak about certain people in a certain way. It would be far better if instead of banning them and demonising them, the Football Association aimed to educate them and make them see that black people are undeserving of racial abuse.
The truth is that Anton Ferdinand has more in common with Terry than he does with someone from Africa. They're wealthy guys from western culture who both drive Bentleys, both drink champagne and both listen to Tinie Tempah, yet Ferdinand is told he is different, that he is part of a race open to insults? That is ridiculous and, again, is the product of historically incorrect preconceptions.
Racism is never personal it's about someone saying the group I am part of is superior to the group you are part of. How, for instance, can a handsome, talented, beautiful black footballer be personally affected by a fat, ugly, unemployed fan calling them a black this or a black that? I used to get that when I was playing and I used to just look at the people doing it and think: 'You're abusing me? Look at you, how can you even dare abuse me?!'
That is why it is pointless, and pretty ridiculous, to be worrying about a footballer getting racially abused in no way are they the biggest sufferers, and, quite frankly, if I was someone like Tour or Rose I'd feel embarrassed if I had to look at someone who was suffering genuine racism and take their sympathy. A millionaire getting booed in Russia is nothing compared with generations of people never getting the chance to better their lives and those of their children.
Physically we are different east Africans, for instance, are genetically inclined to run long distances in shorter spaces of time but intellectually and morally we all have the potential to be the same. That is the type of equality I am interested in and is the message I give when speaking at universities and other public forums. And that is what more people involved in football, black players in particular should be doing. Because unless you get rid of racism in society, you can never get rid of it in football and as things stand there will always be these one-off moments when a player is abused or booed purely because of the colour of their skin.
Everyone goes into shock because they thought racism had disappeared from the game but how can it have done when it continues to exist in every other part of society at a more deep-seated, depressing level? Just because someone keeps their mouth shut for 90 minutes doesn't mean that for the rest of the week he isn't a racist, or hold unconsciously racist views, and until that is addressed, there will always be a problem.
Tackling racism is a long and complicated process but one thing's for sure; it cannot be solved by banning a player or closing part of a stadium. The problem is wider than that and if football really cared those involved in the game, players in particular, would worry less about one-off incidents like what happened to Tour when he played for Manchester City in Moscow and more about what is going on around them. Perceptions need to change and for that to happen, education needs to be pushed as the only way forward.
John Barnes has donated his fee for this column to charity
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I have extra time for ballers who are socially engaged. I have even more time for ballers with a conscience who understand the superstructure of racism and its various locations and manifestations. I have even more time for ballers who can deliver and distill messaging about racism without doing themselves, and the cause of awareness, disservice. I have even more time than that for ballers who weigh in by addressing policy and solutions. In this range of ballers, I place contributors such as Thuram, Seedorf, and Roque Junior among others. Thuram, in particular, is a giant in this area. Lamentably, a lot of what they have to say is not often available in English, but it is nonetheless no less fascinating when it is, and is occasionally accessible on Youtube if it doesn't penetrate traditional media outlets.
My concern with John Barnes is that he treats a multifurcated issue as though it has solely a trunk, but no branches. Well, that's one concern.
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My issue is that he seems to be suggesting we shouldn't get angry, as if we have a limited capacity to be outraged by racism. I can be angry at both!
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My issue is that he seems to be suggesting we shouldn't get angry, as if we have a limited capacity to be outraged by racism. I can be angry at both!
I think he's saying that professional footballers should not give these idiots the satisfaction of a reaction, but should, instead, use their considerable fame to lobby at a higher level. Rise above the shit, if you will. It's not easy, but as Barnes says, these guys are super rich while the idiot racists are often (but not always) lower class scum.
Just throwing out a question here: Are there any professional European clubs with a black owner or chairman? Just interested to see if they have employed black coaches?
There are so many really poor coaches in England, especially in League one and two, yet they always get work. There's gotta be a breakthrough for black coaches eventually....not coz they're black, but because they're good.
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A Link
Not to let you behind the curtain too much here, but the author of today's Mediawatch is white. Thus, we feel rather uncomfortable arguing with John Barnes, a victim of horrendous racism throughout his career, on this particular subject.
However.
Barnes writes an extraordinary piece in The Guardian, the tone of which is set from the very first line:
'I'm not interested in what happened to Yaya Tour at CSKA Moscow - as far as I'm concerned their supporters can abuse who they want.'
Blimey. Barnes does go on to explain that English people have bigger concerns than racism in Russia, given the racism that is still endemic in football and indeed society in this country, which is of course true, but as far as we're aware we don't have a finite capacity for outrage against outrageous things. We can be 'interested' in both things, we think.
Barnes goes on: 'As soon as someone like Tour or Danny Rose gets abused in Eastern Europe there is shock and outrage from players, clubs and the authorities, yet no one is speaking about the people living in inner cities like Brixton who, because of their appearance and their background, have become completely disenfranchised from society...
'...if I was someone like Tour or Rose I'd feel embarrassed if I had to look at someone who was suffering genuine racism and take their sympathy. A millionaire getting booed in Russia is nothing compared with generations of people never getting the chance to better their lives and those of their children.'
Again, there's a point in there somewhere, but it's surely counter-productive to imply that footballers have little right to complain about being racially abused because they are rich and there are other people disenfranchised. Does money give you a racism shield? What's the limit? What level of wealth does someone have to reach before he is no longer allowed to be offended by racism? 1million? 5million?
If footballers like Toure and Rose simply ignored abuse, would that not make it worse for everyone else? If we are to accept the notion that footballers are role models, would them reporting abuse not potentially encourage these people living in Brixton to stand up as well?
He continues: 'Personally, I don't blame Surez or Terry for what they did - they are simply products of a society and environment that allows them to think it is OK to speak about certain people in a certain way.'
Odd then, that many other footballers and indeed people in general that are products of this society and environment can get through the day without calling someone a black c*nt. Excusing those found guilty of racist abuse because they're a product of a society is, if you'll excuse us, a cop-out.
Of course, Barnes raises a number of important issues in his column, and they are issues that should be debated. In the interests of pith, we have obviously only included extracts from the piece here, so we encourage you to read the whole thing and make your own mind up.
From- http://www.football365.com/mediawatch/9009657/The-Page-That-Can-Feel-The-Erotic-Energy-In-The-Air
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Yorkie is in the skysports studio for the Juve Madrid game.
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I'm wrong for this, but it was nice seeing SHIT SNAKE Fellaini get a red card. He don't deserve to be at Man.United!!
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I'm wrong for this, but it was nice seeing SHIT SNAKE Fellaini get a red card. He don't deserve to be at Man.United!!
I wish it was diving-ass Ashley Young who had get a card instead.
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Hi, what station is showing the Arsenal vs Dormund match?
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Hi, what station is showing the Arsenal vs Dormund match?
Wish i could tell you, I watching on sopcast in russian.
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"When I speak about racism, or Yaya Toure or Kevin-Prince Boateng speak, everyone knows what to expect," he said.
"But if tomorrow all the white players from Manchester City say that from now on if something happens we will refuse to go back out on to the pitch, and if the players from AC Milan, from Inter Milan and from all the big clubs say the same thing, you'll soon see that we'll find a solution."
- Lilian Thuram
FIFA.com: Youre known as someone whos always made a stand against racism. Has that determination to fight it always been in you or was it triggered by an incident you experienced as a player?
Roque Junior: Well, basically I think its all to do with my own background. I come from a family where everyones black, on both sides, and which has long suffered racism. When my grandfather, who died this February at the age of 97, arrived in my home town (Santa Rita do Sapucai, in the state of Minas Gerais) way back when, black people were only allowed to walk around the outside of the main square, while whites could walk in the middle. He was the first person from outside to break with all that, in a small rural town where racism was rife. So Ive always had that awareness because of my family. I was born into a family that spoke about it, a family that was making a statement: that black people could achieve things, that there were no differences and that we could enjoy being who we are, end of story. I had that very clear in my mind because I experienced prejudice from an early age and I always knew how to handle it.
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/socialresponsibility/antiracism/interviews/newsid=2208655/index.html?cid=twitter_fifacom
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When I played, I received racial abuse but I was just one of a few black players and we werent backed up by the authorities. Now there are so many at the top of their profession and they have the backing of important people.
I used to ignore the abuse and felt powerless to change attitudes.My only weapon was my performances on the pitch and I am proud to have played for some of the biggest clubs in the world, as well as winning the European Footballer of the Year and World Footballer of the Year awards.
Players wont take that type of abuse anymore. We had to because we had no backing, so I told myself that it was just happening because I was different. I felt I could tackle it by playing well. I looked different but, if I played well, I was accepted.
I used the racist abuse in a positive way. I thought people were afraid of me so I used it as my motivation.
- Ruud Gullit
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/euro2012/article-2156604/Euro-2012-Ruud-Gullit-exclusive--dont-racism-like-I-did.html#ixzz2n4N4YI7W
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To be played Feb. 18, 19, 25, 26 and March 11, 12, 18, 19
Manchester City v Barcelona
Olympiakos v Manchester United
AC Milan v Atletico Madrid
Bayer Leverkusen v Paris St Germain
Galatasaray v Chelsea
Schalke v Real Madrid
Zenit v Dortmund
Arsenal v Bayern
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wow drogba still at galatasaray .......wonder what it goh be like to be on d receiving end of d drogba treatment boy :( :o
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Oh Gawd Arsenal, meh belly... But we look for that steups.
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https://twitter.com/gazprom_mafia
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I'm surprised it took Man City this long to realize they can just attack Barca.
Sitting back was just wasting time.
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Dare to Zlatan!
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Demichelis. You are the weakest link... goodbye!
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Another day at the office
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I'm surprised it took Man City this long to realize they can just attack Barca.
Sitting back was just wasting time.
Their approach at a man down was exactly how they should have started. I was shocked that they were so cautious at the start. Felt they got a hard time officiating wise.
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I'm surprised it took Man City this long to realize they can just attack Barca.
Sitting back was just wasting time.
Their approach at a man down was exactly how they should have started. I was shocked that they were so cautious at the start. Felt they got a hard time officiating wise.
On the plus side, they don't have Demichelis for the return leg.
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Dare to Zlatan!
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/02/18/07a10c7d428afa358d601cf9a1800a51.gif?1392756058)
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/02/IBRA-worldie-1.gif)
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/229/files/2014/02/IBRA-Worldie-2.gif)
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Demichelis. You are the weakest link... goodbye!
I think Clichy was weak too.
Man City give away that game, they give Barca to much respect and allowed them to settle and dictate and you never do that especially against a great team like Barca.
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Dare to Zlatan!
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2014/02/18/07a10c7d428afa358d601cf9a1800a51.gif?1392756058)
This man is something special with these goals oui!
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This man is something special with these goals oui!
I waiting for someone to tell to us that the keeper is partly to blame... :P
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This man is something special with these goals oui!
I waiting for someone to tell to us that the keeper is partly to blame... :P
Nah, that eh go happen, Zlatan qualify.
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Okay, so I now see the Pk in the Man City game (missed it had to run out). That is clearly not a PK. That is a free kick. Ref was very wrong.
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Zlatan is just prolific, maybe the purest finisher in the game right now!
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Okay, so I now see the Pk in the Man City game (missed it had to run out). That is clearly not a PK. That is a free kick. Ref was very wrong.
i think it was a pk..plus in real time you can see why the ref called it. gotta look at where contact was made resulting in the trip and not so much demichelis' slide..if persons wanna call this a wrong call i dont think this warrants the controversy it seems to be getting
(http://gfycat.com/MiserableEvergreenBobcat)
(http://giant.gfycat.com/PopularFairAmericanbulldog.gif)
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Okay, so I now see the Pk in the Man City game (missed it had to run out). That is clearly not a PK. That is a free kick. Ref was very wrong.
i think it was a pk..plus in real time you can see why the ref called it. gotta look at where contact was made resulting in the trip and not so much demichelis' slide..if persons wanna call this a wrong call i dont think this warrants the controversy it seems to be getting
(http://gfycat.com/MiserableEvergreenBobcat)
(http://giant.gfycat.com/PopularFairAmericanbulldog.gif)
The trip was outside the box, that's where contact was made.
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Milan struggling to put it together. Only because iz Clarence ah empathetic.
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Podolski v Lahm. Gotta love it.
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Diego Costa's departure from AM is practically sure.
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That's justice!!! Fire bun Arjen Robben.
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Arsenal is like an egg, fragile and yellow.
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Arsenal is like an egg, fragile and yellow.
;D ;D ;D ;D not nice ;D ;D ;D
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Don't like City strategy so far in this games. The tactics are ok, but the strategy needs to be tweaked a bit. They can win this game if they play their game.......and sub Milner.
Yaya is just quality.
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The underlords stuck their hands into this game.
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Quarter Final Draw
Barcelona v Atltico Madrid
Real Madrid v Borussia Dortmund
PSG v Chelsea
ManU v Bayern :devil:
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If Bayern beat we 8-0 and 6-0...we might finally get rid of Moyes...
If we getting licks anyway...let it be by a big margin...... :praying:
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doh sleep on atletico at all!! i want them win somthin this year before other clubs pick off thier players during the summer...
think psg will take it...dont kno y ppl think its sure chelsea...
bayern manu...well nothin more needs to be said...i think bayern can even pay for manu trip to germany..
real just steam rolling everything and dortmund very shaky dis season compared to last
atletico
psg
bayern
real
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Europe awaits draw for best-ever Champions League quarter-final (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/pitchside-europe/europe-awaits-draw-best-ever-champions-league-quarter-190042420.html)
Fridays draw for the quarter-finals of the Champions League is remarkable for several reasons.
For one, it is the first time that an out-of-sorts Manchester United are rated as the least likely side to progress from this stage, with bookmakers offering both them and Borussia Dortmund as joint odds-on favourites to go out at the next stage.
That makes sense as, in addition to being far from convincing over two legs, they are the only two teams not still challenging for their domestic league title even though Dortmund are second in the Bundesliga, they are so far behind Bayern Munich that, well, theres almost no point.
Technically, however, United are the second-worst team left in the draw, despite being well short of the Premier League top four. The Euro Club Index which uses complex mathematical formulae to factor in recent history, strength of opposition in domestic matches and European form to even out blips in results shows that Dortmund are actually the lowest-ranked side remaining.
An interesting fact from our friends at Opta highlights why, even when they are poor, you just can't write off United:
But even then, this piece of data is quite unusual in that Dortmund are ranked 11th, meaning that these quarter-finals are pretty much the cream of the crop Manchester City, Arsenal and Juventus are the only top-10 sides missing from the draw.
How one views Manchester United with respect to Dortmund whether based on algorithms or opinion is irrelevant though, there are several undeniable facts that make this draw the best-ever in the Champions League:
1. This is the first time in the Champions Leagues current format that all eight group winners have reached the last eight
Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Paris Saint-Germain, Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund and Manchester United all won groups of varying difficulty.
The given order is no accident that is the ranking bookmaker William Hill has for the likelihood of outright victory.
Personally, I would promote Real Madrid and Chelsea by one place, but that would be splitting hairs. The best teams in the competition regardless of domestic form are here when it counts.
How about that for an example of the cream rising to the top?
2. Six of the eight are former or reigning European champions
Bayern won last years Champions League, Chelsea the year before, Barca the year before that. United last won it in 2008, Real in 2002 and Dortmund in 1997.
PSG and Atletico are yet to be champions of Europe, but the French side won the Cup Winners Cup in 1996, while Atleti have won two Europa Leagues, a Cup Winners Cup, a Super Cup and were runners-up in the old European Cup in 1974.
That is what you would call exalted company. And, if recent progress is anything to go by, don't bet against PSG and Atletico joining them in the near future.
3. Six of Europes richest seven are present
This is not necessarily a good thing for the game on a wider level, but Manchester City are the only absentee from the top seven clubs by revenue.
As you can see from the image below, Deloittes estimations on footballs riches are based on last seasons data. With the extra TV and sponsorship money made available to Premier League sides and PSGs boost in income from reaching the latter stages of this tournament expect those figures to be significantly higher next time out.
Massive props go to Atletico though, a mostly selling club whose presence in the top 20 is arguably only due to the revenue they gather from flogging the likes of Radamel Falcao and, this summer, probably Diego Costa.
Although if they go on to win the thing, that could suddenly change.
4. The top nine players in world football will, in theory, feature
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real), Lionel Messi (Barca), Franck Ribery (Bayern), Zlatan Ibrahimovic (PSG), Neymar (Barca), Andres Iniesta (Barca), Robin van Persie (United), Arjen Robben (Bayern) and Gareth Bale (Real) are all, injury permitting, set to start the first legs.
That is the FIFA Ballon dOr top nine, in order. Juves failure to escape the group stage means Andrea Pirlo is the only top-10 player missing from the quarters.
Of the top 20, Robert Lewandowski (Dortmund), Xavi (Barca), Bastian Schweinsteiger, Philipp Lahm, Thomas Mueller (all Bayern), and Edinson Cavani (PSG) will also be there, with only Pirlo, Falcao, Yaya Toure, Mesut Ozil and Luis Suarez absent.
So that means 15 of the worlds top 20 players are all going to be mixing it in the last eight.
5. Its not just we fans and pundits who are excited
Bayern Munich midfielder Toni Kroos, who has of course been linked with a move to fellow quarter-finalists Manchester United cannot wait. And neither can we.
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Zlatan Ibrahimovic's expert analysis of the Champions League quarterfinal draw
By Brooks Peck [Dirty Tackle]
March 21, 2014.
Luis Figo has dyed his hair and picked the balls out of the pot. Now there are Champions League quarterfinals for me to analyze. I am Zlatan. I am the wind. I am also the Champions League quarterfinal Zlexpert. And a maker of wooden toys that are far too dangerous for most children.
This is the first time all eight group-stage winners have reached this point. It is also the first time I have wanted this to happen. I'm not saying I am an all-powerful controller of time and space, but yes, that is exactly what I am. Now let's Zlanalyze these matches.
Barcelona v Atletico Madrid
Zlatan Zlays: This is not an easy draw for Barca. Which means several Atletico players will be sent off to help Barca advance. Diego Costa has probably been shown a red card already for being taller than Xavi.
Prediction: Barcelona will win and Atletico will play the final minutes of the second leg with only their third-choice goalkeeper and a ham sandwich wrapped in an old Fernando Torres shirt.
Real Madrid v Borussia Dortmund
Zlatan Zlays: These two teams met in the group stage and semifinals last season, with Dortmund coming out on top. This time, Dortmund must play the first leg without Robert Lewandowski and several other key players who are injured. Surely Jurgen Klopp now wishes I was not joking when I offered to join Dortmund for free even more than he did before. But the only thing I do for free is offer Zlatraditional style decorating tips.
Prediction: Cristiano Ronaldo will score goals, Pepe will kick someone in the armpit and Carlo Ancelotti will employ all the Zlactics he learned from me at PSG to advance.
PSG v Chelsea
Zlatan Zlays: Normally, I do not care who falls into my path of destruction, but this I will not enjoy. As a fellow leader in the Coalition Against Pep, Jose Mourinho has become a great friend of mine. I do not want to crush him, but there is no other way. The only good that will come of this is that after I win, Jose will have more time to work on our coalition's internal newsletter: The Pep Guardiola Smells Like Fertilizer and Herpes Gazette.
Prediction: Sadness.
Manchester United v Bayern Munich
Zlatan Zlays: Of course, Pep gets to face the zombie shell of Manchester United. Bayern do not need anymore advantages than they already have. This is good, though. It ensures they will remain in the competition so that I will have the opportunity to do the impossible and eliminate Pep and Bayern myself. Enjoy beating up on lost man-puppy David Moyes because I am lurking around the Zlorner, Pep. And the only redecorating tips I have are for your face.
Prediction: A leisurely stroll towards possible Zlannihilation.
Hairbun punch!
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SMH ... the ref should get an assist :devil:
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Did anyone just watch that mess?
That officiating was terrible. I think it's time refs start getting fined and let it be known publicly. This ref was a joke for a CL game.
What about Man United tactics or lack there of. I swear I was watching a US college team play. Put your fastest player up top and then just launch it forward and let him chase it. Players worth millions of dollars and that's what they put out there? I can alreafy see England not even being a factor in this WC.
I really like Bayern's set up in trying to score. About 3 or 4 time they rehearsed until they got that goal. Absolute class.
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Barcelona 1 - 1 Atltico
Neymar 71 Diego 56
Man. United 1 - 1 Bayern
Vidić 58 Schweinsteiger 67
Saw the Man Utd game live, terrible officiating but it worked to Man Utd's advantage so don't think they will complain but Bayern will deal with Man Utd easily back in Germany in the return game.
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Did anyone just watch that mess?
That officiating was terrible. I think it's time refs start getting fined and let it be known publicly. This ref was a joke for a CL game.
What about Man United tactics or lack there of. I swear I was watching a US college team play. Put your fastest player up top and then just launch it forward and let him chase it. Players worth millions of dollars and that's what they put out there? I can alreafy see England not even being a factor in this WC.
I really like Bayern's set up in trying to score. About 3 or 4 time they rehearsed until they got that goal. Absolute class.
Talk about parking the bus. Bayern had 70% of the ball at Old Trafford.
Cyah see how Valencia get away from a card for that reckless stamp, but Schweinsteiger get a 2nd yellow in the 89th minute.
Mpyes's antiquated tactics worked for this game.
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Mpyes's antiquated tactics worked for this game.
um how did it work.......they have it all to do...........bayern have d advantage with d away goal
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Mpyes's antiquated tactics worked for this game.
um how did it work.......they have it all to do...........bayern have d advantage with d away goal
He ent go get fired! Respectable result. Great success!!
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David Villa has to explain to me why he did not hit the target early in the game. Yuh can't miss those chances vs Barca.
I'm very pleased that Atletico finished with 11 men. Ref even gave that monster whiner Alba a card.
Hopefully Costa can play a part in the next leg.
Atletico really defended well, and Courtois pulled off some superman saves.
Arda Turan is a baller, I hope he shines in the next game.
Atletico need to manage their personnel, better to lose in the CL and win the league if that is what it comes down to.
Down with Barca!
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Arda is key for AM. He's the unbalancing danger.
The more Courtois geh on, the more Mourinho smiles knowingly. He's having a good season.
Very happy that Diego got to express himself on the big stage. The commentator called his goal "a missile".
I thought the ref's position was a factor in Neymar scoring the equalizer. This is a quibble.
Simeone rotated more than I've seen in the league ... Sosa, Rodriguez, others ... got decent time.
I have doubts as to squad depth, but Simeone seems to be managing fine.
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FYI, Champions League ticket lottery closes April 7th ... Lisboa, Lisboa, Lisboa ...
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Mpyes's antiquated tactics worked for this game.
um how did it work.......they have it all to do...........bayern have d advantage with d away goal
He ent go get fired! Respectable result. Great success!!
Exactly! Plus it was cleat that that ManU were hitting and hoping to catch Bayern in a one vs one situation at the back.
But I believe Pep will adjust in the second leg and the flood gates will open up.
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That was a nice assist by Terry to Luiz for the finish.
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Zlatan out hurt. Hopefully he there for the return I want to see him buss Chelsea net.
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WTH Cech?
Ok,
Hard shot to save. Maybe he should have kicked it.
Regardless, this is one of those period which, when it happens to Arsenal, everyone calls a disaster.
Loss to Palace, bumped out of first place in the league, loss to PSG.
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Cech rel struggle today. Not to bad to reverse at the Bridge.
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Paris (3 - 1) Chelsea
Lavezzi 4 Hazard 27 (P)
David Luiz 61 (og)
Pastore 90+3
Real Madrid (3 - 0) Dortmund
Bale 3
Isco 27
Ronaldo 57
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WTH Cech?
Ok,
Hard shot to save. Maybe he should have kicked it.
Regardless, this is one of those period which, when it happens to Arsenal, everyone calls a disaster.
Loss to Palace, bumped out of first place in the league, loss to PSG.
Yeah, but this is Chelsea. Us losing a couple games does not signal panic. Even if we don't win a trophy this season, there is no need to panic. We've won stuff in the recent past, unlike Arsenal. We storm to the finish instead of limping in. That's who we are. That's what JM does and we know it. So, game on.
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Apparently Chelsea fans rampaging through Paris making Nazi salutes and mashing up de place. smh
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/02/chelsea-fans-rampage-paris-champions-league
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Apparently Chelsea fans rampaging through Paris making Nazi salutes and mashing up de place. smh
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/02/chelsea-fans-rampage-paris-champions-league
"English hooligans" ... iz ah while now I eh see dem two words together. Used to be ah norm back in de day.
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This Lavezzi dude is quite a player. Argentina should have a damn good squad to backup Messi in Rio this coming summer. Quite a few of the squad playing CL football.
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Too much going on I don't know which game to follow.
Dortmund making a serious assault on RM lead.
Chelsea looking like they doing the same, but Hazard went down...
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I takin in d chelsea game......drippy link where is is now.....watchin more dan one game goh be pressure
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UEFA crack down on the bootleg sites, all the reliable ones gone.
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Casillas is having a hell of a game!
Saint Iker indeed!
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Dortmund - That is what you get when your best striker goes to Bayern
PSG - Cavani!
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chelsea is through BA deserves some real playin time man.........for real how torres gettin more time I will never know
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Klopp said they were gonna say goodbye to the CL with a bang.
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chelsea is through BA deserves some real playin time man.........for real how torres gettin more time I will never know
They trying to get a return on their investment.
Scoring one of Cavani's two chances in the second half was all PSG needed.
This is a tournament for titans.
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chelsea is through BA deserves some real playin time man.........for real how torres gettin more time I will never know
They trying to get a return on their investment.
Scoring one of Cavani's two chances in the second half was all PSG needed.
This is a tournament for titans.
is time to call d underwriters dey wastin time dey
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chelsea is through BA deserves some real playin time man.........for real how torres gettin more time I will never know
They trying to get a return on their investment.
Scoring one of Cavani's two chances in the second half was all PSG needed.
This is a tournament for titans.
is time to call d underwriters dey wastin time dey
Yea you always need to know when to cut your losses, he should be shipped out for as much as they cna get him for - he's never performed at Chelsea
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chelsea is through BA deserves some real playin time man.........for real how torres gettin more time I will never know
They trying to get a return on their investment.
Scoring one of Cavani's two chances in the second half was all PSG needed.
This is a tournament for titans.
is time to call d underwriters dey wastin time dey
Yea you always need to know when to cut your losses, he should be shipped out for as much as they cna get him for - he's never performed at Chelsea
In the first place they shoulda never paid that exorbitant amount for him.
Anyway Atletico lead 1-0, down with Barca!!!!!!
Messi quiet so far, Neymar Jr. hit a man a wicked breed, and Atletico hit the post twice.
Plus Iniesta mistrap a ball, that made my highlight reel.
Atletico playing hard without Costa and Turan. Barca knocking on the door though.
Hear that crowd nah.
This man pass the ball to Pinto's foot with the far post gaping.
How de ass is that not a penalty????
Clear push in the back, no ball contact, should be a penalty for Atletico.
What a performance by Atletico, great all over the pitch.
Praise must go out to Atletico's fitness coach, I haven't seen tempo like that in a while.
I now see that these two meet in Camp Nou on the last day of La Liga. Hopefully that clash decides the title.
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...
Hear that crowd nah.
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I now see that these two meet in Camp Nou on the last day of La Liga. Hopefully that clash decides the title.
Ah was forced to ketch most of it on the radio (blasted links and dem!) ... at one point de stadium announcer sounded like he was in here; crowd was roaring. And as fuh that las' phrase: :shameonyou: Not at all.
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chelsea goh real have to bring dey A game for any of d teams in d draw, 2 spanish and a pep coached german team,
will they park the bus or pull ah fast one like they did to city....only time goh tell
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(Ah bet Villa woulda geh on bad had he scored ... Barca-who?)
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Heard that there's no clause preventing Courtois from facing Chelsea ... if it came to that.
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that breed Neymar put down...glenn ramadharsingh came to mind...it was so stink..
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UEFA Champions League semi-final
April 22-23
Atletico Madrid v Chelsea FC
Bayern Munich v Real Madrid
April 29-30
Chelsea FC v Atletico Madrid
Real Madrid v Bayern Munich
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Heard that there's no clause preventing Courtois from facing Chelsea ... if it came to that.
There is a clause but uefa have rubbished it and said if Chelsea tried to enforce it theyll face disciplinary action.
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Courtois could make Chelsea 5m from Champions League semi-final against Atletico.
By Matt Law (telegraph)
Atltico Madrid president says club will not pay clause fee to allow on-loan goalkeeper to face Chelsea should they be pitted against each other.
Chelsea goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois has not given up hope of playing for Atltico Madrid, the club with whom he is on loan, in the semi-finals of the Champions League if the sides are drawn together on Friday.
Telegraph Sport can reveal the full cost of Courtois's three seasons on loan at Chelsea could rise over 12 million if he plays against his parent club for Atltico in both legs of a semi-final.
Atltico president Enrique Cerezo has claimed the Spanish club "would be unable to pay" a clause understood to be in the loan agreement of Courtois that means Chelsea would be due 2.48 million for every game he plays against them.
Chelsea charged Atltico 800,000 to take Courtois on loan in 2011 and 2.48 million for his second season in Madrid. The Spaniards paid 4.13 million to take Courtois on loan for a third term.
Courtois was part of the Atltico team who beat Chelsea in the final of the Uefa Super Cup in 2012. It is believed that prompted Chelsea to insert a clause into his latest deal that means the La Liga club must also pay for the Belgian to play against his parent club.
Chelsea have already made a profit on the 7 million they spent to sign Courtois from Belgian club Genk in 2011, before loaning him out. Chelsea insist Courtois would be free to play against them in the Champions League and the decision over his selection would be down to Atltico and the player, but the Stamford Bridge club refused to discuss the nature of the player's loan contract.
Atltico's financial situation makes them reliant on loans and third-party cash injections, which has raised suspicions that Cerezo has pleaded poverty over a potential 4.96 million Champions League appearance fee to try to attract further investment.
Courtois is in negotiations over a new long-term Chelsea contract that could be used as a bargaining tool over any loan clause.
Chelsea will bid for Atltico striker Diego Costa at the end of the season and may offer to write off any outstanding appearance fees on Courtois to bring the price down.
This is not the first time there has been a potential clash between an on-loan player and his parent club in the Champions League.
In the 2003-04 season, Real Madrid loaned Fernando Morientes to Monaco without a clause to prevent him playing against them. He scored twice in the quarter-finals to help knock Real out and finished top scorer.
Uefa rules stop a club banning a player from playing against another team, but there is nothing to stop what the Spanish refer to as a fear clause' that means the borrowing club have to pay for the player to face his parent club.
Losing Courtois would be a huge blow to Atltico, whose second choice keeper is Dani Aranzubia, a 34-year-old former Athletic Bilbao and Deportivo stopper who won the InterToto cup in 2008.
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Chelsea have been drawn to face Atltico Madrid in the Champions League semi-finals, having been told by Uefa that a clause requiring the Spaniards to fork out up to 6m for the goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois to play against his parent club is "null, void and unenforceable".
Unlike in the Premier League, where loan players cannot face their parent clubs, there are no such restrictions in the Champions League. Courtois, who is in his third season on loan at Atltico, played well for the La Liga leaders against Chelsea last season in the Spanish club's European Super Cup victory and, if that was slightly embarrassing for Chelsea, it may have motivated them to insert the clause into Courtois's latest deal.
However, Uefa has now stepped in and warned Chelsea they will face disciplinary proceedings should they attempt to make Atltico pay the sum, despite the contractual position.
It remains to be seen whether Atltico would select Courtois and risk damaging relations with Chelsea, given they want to take the 21-year-old back on loan next season. Chelsea are also known to be prioritising the signing of Atltico's striker Diego Costa.
In a statement, Uefa explained: "Both the Champions League and the disciplinary regulations contain clear provisions which strictly forbid any club to exert, or attempt to exert, any influence whatsoever over the players that another club may (or may not) field in a match."
It added: "It follows that any provision in a private contract between clubs which might function in such a way as to influence who a club fields in a match is null, void and unenforceable so far as Uefa is concerned.
"Furthermore, any attempt to enforce such a provision would be a clear violation of both the Uefa Champions League and the Uefa disciplinary regulations and would therefore be sanctioned accordingly."
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/11/champions-league-semi-final-draw-chelsea-atletico-real-madrid-bayern-munich
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That's some crap. I hope Chelsea win and then recall him the next day since contracts are null and void in UEFA. Well those are some shitty lawyers who draw up such a contract and not taking into considerations UEFA rules and regulations.
It does not matter whether or not he plays, but UEFA could have just sent CFC and AM a memo.
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That's some crap. I hope Chelsea win and then recall him the next day since contracts are null and void in UEFA. Well those are some shitty lawyers who draw up such a contract and not taking into considerations UEFA rules and regulations.
It does not matter whether or not he plays, but UEFA could have just sent CFC and AM a memo.
Why? :D
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Courtois' absence would alter the character of that semi-final clash fundamentally!!!
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That's some crap. I hope Chelsea win and then recall him the next day since contracts are null and void in UEFA. Well those are some shitty lawyers who draw up such a contract and not taking into considerations UEFA rules and regulations.
It does not matter whether or not he plays, but UEFA could have just sent CFC and AM a memo.
UEFA are defending the spirit of the game.
I don't think Chelsea can recall him anytime they want. Would Atletico leave themselves open to losing their keeper if Cech got injured?
I feel Atletico have some kind of protection against an early recall.
Real - Bayern look like a final. They might wear each other out.
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Heard that there's no clause preventing Courtois from facing Chelsea ... if it came to that.
There is a clause but uefa have rubbished it and said if Chelsea tried to enforce it theyll face disciplinary action.
The contractual language doesn't [expressly] prevent Courtois from facing Chelsea ... it however inherently/seemingly effectuates an outcome that could/would preclude Courtois from playing (but for UEFA's pronouncement?!!).
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That's some crap. I hope Chelsea win and then recall him the next day since contracts are null and void in UEFA. Well those are some shitty lawyers who draw up such a contract and not taking into considerations UEFA rules and regulations.
It does not matter whether or not he plays, but UEFA could have just sent CFC and AM a memo.
You are such an emotional baby sometimes. Contracts are not null and void, ILLEGAL CONTRACTS are null and void... that has always been the case. In this instance, Chelsea's lawyers either didn't know of, or didn't consider/appreciate the scope of the UEFA provision. On the one hand I say allow the two parties the freedom to set whatever provisions they want, but on the other hand, where there is a prior-existing Confederation-wide provision such as this, private parties cannot just override that by agreeing to subvent the provision. All this without addressing stuff like "the spirit of the game" etc.
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That's some crap. I hope Chelsea win and then recall him the next day since contracts are null and void in UEFA. Well those are some shitty lawyers who draw up such a contract and not taking into considerations UEFA rules and regulations.
It does not matter whether or not he plays, but UEFA could have just sent CFC and AM a memo.
You are such an emotional baby sometimes. Contracts are not null and void, ILLEGAL CONTRACTS are null and void... that has always been the case. In this instance, Chelsea's lawyers either didn't know of, or didn't consider/appreciate the scope of the UEFA provision. On the one hand I say allow the two parties the freedom to set whatever provisions they want, but on the other hand, where there is a prior-existing Confederation-wide provision such as this, private parties cannot just override that by agreeing to subvent the provision. All this without addressing stuff like "the spirit of the game" etc.
Did you even read what I wrote? Talk about baby.
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UEFA is a big fraud and plays favorite. Hope Chelsea can get past UEFA boogie men.
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UEFA have declared the Courtois clause null and void but Atletico know that if they play him without paying they have no chance of getting him back on loan next season. So they still have a tough decision to make.
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UEFA have declared the Courtois clause null and void but Atletico know that if they play him without paying they have no chance of getting him back on loan next season. So they still have a tough decision to make.
steups i say take d chance. yuh on a scintillating run this season so go all out.
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UEFA have declared the Courtois clause null and void but Atletico know that if they play him without paying they have no chance of getting him back on loan next season. So they still have a tough decision to make.
steups i say take d chance. yuh on a scintillating run this season so go all out.
Agreed. How often do you get a shot at a CL final? Diego Costa might not be there next season either. Those bigger clubs will be looking to plunder Atletico's talent in this off-season. Play Courtois and destroy Chelsea. :praying:
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UEFA took a shrug-the-shoulders stance in the case of Mo Bangura facing his parent club Celtic.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/233438-mo-bangura-could-feature-against-celtic-for-loan-club-if-elfsborg/
Mo Bangura is set to face his parent club Celtic in the UEFA Champions League third qualifying round.
The striker is currently on loan with Swedish side IF Elfsborg, who have been drawn against the Scottish champions in the competition.
Neither side are confirmed as having reached the next stage but are expected to progress, with Celtic 3-0 up on Cliftonville and Elfsborg 7-1 ahead against FC Daugava.
That has raised the possibility of the 23-year-old coming up against his employers, with UEFA rules not prohibiting a player on loan coming up against his parent side.
Speaking to STV after the draw, Elfsborg's club operations manager Stefan Andreasson said the striker would be in their squad to face Celtic.
"He will play," Andreasson told STV. "I have sent an SMS to Peter Lawwell about the game but not about Bangura. He knows the agreement.
"Bangura is doing well with us. We have had an OK start in the league and he is an important player for us."
A statement from UEFA confirmed their rules do not forbid Bangura from playing against Celtic.
"As we, in line with the FIFA regulations on status and transfer of players, consider a loan to be a transfer, we do not have any regulations regarding players not playing against their parent club whilst on loan to another club," the governing body told STV.
"If a player is duly registered on the player list of IF Elfsborg then he can play against any team that Elfsborg are drawn against.
"Any agreement between the two clubs that this player wouldnt play against Celtic should Elfsborg be drawn against them is purely between the clubs.
"UEFA would not have any involvement or consideration of this agreement, it would be neither endorsed or enforceable by UEFA."
Bangura, who is on loan to Elfsborg until December, has netted six goals in 17 games, including a goal in their 7-1 win over FC Daugava.
Signed by Celtic from AIK in 2011, the player failed to make an impact in Glasgow, scoring no goals in 16 competitive appearances.
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UEFA took a shrug-the-shoulders stance in the case of Mo Bangura facing his parent club Celtic.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/celtic/233438-mo-bangura-could-feature-against-celtic-for-loan-club-if-elfsborg/
Mo Bangura is set to face his parent club Celtic in the UEFA Champions League third qualifying round.
The striker is currently on loan with Swedish side IF Elfsborg, who have been drawn against the Scottish champions in the competition.
Neither side are confirmed as having reached the next stage but are expected to progress, with Celtic 3-0 up on Cliftonville and Elfsborg 7-1 ahead against FC Daugava.
That has raised the possibility of the 23-year-old coming up against his employers, with UEFA rules not prohibiting a player on loan coming up against his parent side.
Speaking to STV after the draw, Elfsborg's club operations manager Stefan Andreasson said the striker would be in their squad to face Celtic.
"He will play," Andreasson told STV. "I have sent an SMS to Peter Lawwell about the game but not about Bangura. He knows the agreement.
"Bangura is doing well with us. We have had an OK start in the league and he is an important player for us."
A statement from UEFA confirmed their rules do not forbid Bangura from playing against Celtic.
"As we, in line with the FIFA regulations on status and transfer of players, consider a loan to be a transfer, we do not have any regulations regarding players not playing against their parent club whilst on loan to another club," the governing body told STV.
"If a player is duly registered on the player list of IF Elfsborg then he can play against any team that Elfsborg are drawn against.
"Any agreement between the two clubs that this player wouldnt play against Celtic should Elfsborg be drawn against them is purely between the clubs.
"UEFA would not have any involvement or consideration of this agreement, it would be neither endorsed or enforceable by UEFA."
Bangura, who is on loan to Elfsborg until December, has netted six goals in 17 games, including a goal in their 7-1 win over FC Daugava.
Signed by Celtic from AIK in 2011, the player failed to make an impact in Glasgow, scoring no goals in 16 competitive appearances.
Men does quick to talk but don't pay attention. They quickly forget this situation or their wiki search eh bring it up. I was waiting for men to talk more mess before I post this UEFA ruling. UEFA bias and convenient.
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The circumstances are similar, but not the same. There are elements that distinguish the cases.
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Men does quick to talk but don't pay attention. They quickly forget this situation or their wiki search eh bring it up. I was waiting for men to talk more mess before I post this UEFA ruling. UEFA bias and convenient.
I suggest you develop a bit more of an understanding yourself before you deign to impugn the understanding of others. The two cases are easily distnguishable. If the two clubs agree that the player would not feature then that is the clubs' business. However, what UEFA has prohibited, is one club (in this case Chelsea) threatening to penalise the other club should the player feature in the game. What UEFA has said is that any such clause is unenforceable. Not surprisingly this is making the rounds on Chelsea fansites... everybody is clutching at emotional straws without taking the effort to understand the nuances that separate the two cases.
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UEFA should do what the FA did and simply ban loaned players playing their parent club full stop in order to avoid these situations - Everton and Man U had a similar situation over Tim Howard a couple seasons ago.
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How about clubs can't loan a player out if he could possibly play against the parent club.
Sell players that you don't plan to use, use players that you buy.
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Men does quick to talk but don't pay attention. They quickly forget this situation or their wiki search eh bring it up. I was waiting for men to talk more mess before I post this UEFA ruling. UEFA bias and convenient.
I suggest you develop a bit more of an understanding yourself before you deign to impugn the understanding of others. The two cases are easily distnguishable. If the two clubs agree that the player would not feature then that is the clubs' business. However, what UEFA has prohibited, is one club (in this case Chelsea) threatening to penalise the other club should the player feature in the game. What UEFA has said is that any such clause is unenforceable. Not surprisingly this is making the rounds on Chelsea fansites... everybody is clutching at emotional straws without taking the effort to understand the nuances that separate the two cases.
:bs: Bakes, did AM not sign the contract which stipulates the clause? Reading is key son, as you like to point out to everyone.
The Chelsea keeper has been on loan at Atletico for three seasons but the Madrid clubs president, Enrique Cerezo, told Spanish radio after the quarter-final triumph over Barcelona they would be 'unable to pay' the added fees which were part of the loan agreement.
"Any agreement between the two clubs that this player wouldnt play against Celtic should Elfsborg be drawn against them is purely between the clubs.
A signed contract is an agreement between both parties and SHOULD be enforceable.
And it is not just Chelsea fan sites.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll314/Chunkycj/UEFA_zps4be51b73.png) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/Chunkycj/media/UEFA_zps4be51b73.png.html)
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What elan and Chelsea want is bad for the game.
Just because two clubs agree on something doesn't mean it is enforceable. Suppose they all agree that if Courtois wants to play vs Chelsea he has to score an own goal, is that enforceable?
And this does not sound like a loan fee as John Cross says, this sounds more like a financial penalty.
Atletico secure a player on loan, then have to pay more to use the player vs a certain team?
That does not sit well with me.
I hope they create some rules for this kind of case.
Aren't there any rich Spanish guys who want to donate a few million to Atletico?
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elan ... the mere reading of a contract and signing it ... is not the end.
As to an entire contract ... or to a specific clause(s), there may be a finding that a contract or specific terms of a contract are unenforceable. Such "unenforceability" might be the result of various grounds ... it might be deemed "unconscionable" ... it might be deemed "repugnant to public policy" (in simple terms, if the contract does not promote a good) ... there might have been duress etc.
If you look at UEFA's rationale regarding "influence", you'll see what's what.
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Yes, I'll leave it up to you fellas to try and reason with him because my efforts clearly not bearing fruit.
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Yeah, but therein lies the problem though. UEFA catergorically stated that it's up to the club to settle their point of contention, but within this particular scenario they feel it necessary to step in and rule. Was the "spirit of competition" not involved in the decision making process last time around?
Here's the thing Peong, like you, many others jump on Chelsea case in a preemptive strike knowing that Courtois is our player and that we had a good chance of competing against AM.
Chelsea NEVER made any statement to the effect that Courtois cannot play. That was all from the press speculating such and people took it and ran with it. Can anyone point me to a press release or anything where Chelsea said they will activate their clause to prevent Courtois from playing?
The fact remains that even with the contract and the clause Courtois can play. That was never in doubt. AM can pick him and there is nothing Chelsea can do, NOTHING. However, if AM plays him they will owe Chelsea 3 million Euros (I think) per game. So to say that Chelsea is "picking the team" or "influencing" the selection of the team is not DIRECTLY true. The spirit of the game is not being trampled on.
It was never in doubt that he can play, he can and he always could.
It's like using an app on your phone. You get the app for free or (let's say $0.99) and you can make in app purchases. You don't have to, but you can. Is that not fair trade?
I don't care if he play, let him play. Raises his stock which will bring more money to the club when we sell him or experience if we ever need him. My problem is the manner in which UEFA handled the whole scene. Do you or do you not have regulations governing players loan agreements between clubs.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/4A7N8ZR_Rhw&list=UU4dBBlcx_pi3R-lXTQgMRyw
Gianluca and Giuliano Simeone at their home in Argentina ... celebrating their dad's success in progressing to the semis.
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Arda Turan reach. LIX for Chelsea.
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Atleti is concerned about the counter ... shows in the lack of intricate passing in the final third.
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...and that, Jose, is how you do a counter-attack.
Of course, history shows that scoring against them just makes Bayern angry. You wouldn't like them when they are angry.
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...and that, Jose, is how you do a counter-attack.
Of course, history shows that scoring against them just makes Bayern angry. You wouldn't like them when they are angry.
Wait, you seriously telling Jose about counter-attack? :rotfl: :rotfl:
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...and that, Jose, is how you do a counter-attack.
Of course, history shows that scoring against them just makes Bayern angry. You wouldn't like them when they are angry.
Wait, you seriously telling Jose about counter-attack? :rotfl: :rotfl:
steups .......goh take carlo over jose coward football any day......chelsea f**k deyself good with dat shit
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This game exemplifies why CL can never be/beat de WC.
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I guess this is the new style(s) going forward, tiki-taka or swarm defend, counter-attack.
Put together of these styles are dull. Counter-attack vs counter-attack produces the snooze fest we saw yesterday. tiki-taka vs counter-attack, one team keeps the ball, the other one sits back and hopes to spring a deadly counter.
As a practical matter, it would be suicide not to sit back in the big games, but as entertainment...
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two days of booring football...
what a waste.
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Absolute F*@king disgrace.
Dani Alves: Barcelona defender eats banana after it lands on pitch
BBC News
Barcelona's Dani Alves reacted to having a banana thrown at him during Sunday's dramatic 3-2 win at Villarreal by peeling it and then taking a bite.
He was about to take a corner when the banana landed on the pitch.
"We have suffered this in Spain for some time," said Alves. "You have to take it with a dose of humour."
....
Alves has been a regular target of racist abuse during his 12 years in Spain with both Sevilla and Barcelona.
In January 2013, the Brazil international complained of racist abuse following a Copa del Rey semi-final match against Real Madrid.
"We aren't going to change things easily," he added.
Referring specifically to Sunday's incident, he said: "If you don't give it importance, they don't achieve their objective."
Alves, 30, was involved in two goals as Barca come from 2-0 down against Villarreal to win 3-2 at El Madrigal.
The win leaves them second in the table, four points behind leaders Atletico Madrid with three games remaining
Original Story here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27183851)
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Why is it a disgrace?
Suarez is the EFA PoY.
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Why is it a disgrace?
Suarez is the EFA PoY.
Correction. Suarez is the PFA Player of the Year. I assume you know what "PFA" stands for... if you do, then you should also appreciate why your comparison is misplaced.
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Yea, the FA would be unlikely to give him an award, given they stripped Terry of his captaincy for roughly the same. I presume/hope your question about it being a disgrace was sarcastic.
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Why is it a disgrace?
Suarez is the EFA PoY.
Correction. Suarez is the PFA Player of the Year. I assume you know what "PFA" stands for... if you do, then you should also appreciate why your comparison is misplaced.
Makes it even more compelling.....sorry Bakes, but it's always different in this case right.
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I wonder what would happen if someone threw a banana on the field during a Packers v. Vikings encounter.
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Hmmm...
Man-U might want to hold off on hiring Van Gaal, because if this score stands PeP he eh go make it out of this stadium without a pink slip.
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3:0 for RM at the 33 rd min.
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bayern getting bull
copyright. bitter
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bayern getting bull
copyright. bitter
I didn't invent that one.
Nor this one: Speed Kills.
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Hello my name is Sammy and i hate Tiki Taka
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bayern getting bull
copyright. bitter
I didn't invent that one.
Nor this one: Speed Kills.
Looks like PeP needs Messi...
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Bayern does not play Tikki Takka. Every passing team is not Tikki Takka.
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...and that, Jose, is how you do a counter-attack.
Of course, history shows that scoring against them just makes Bayern angry. You wouldn't like them when they are angry.
Wait, you seriously telling Jose about counter-attack? :rotfl: :rotfl:
steups .......goh take carlo over jose coward football any day......chelsea f**k deyself good with dat shit
Did you not follow Jose at RM.
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I wonder what would happen if someone threw a banana on the field during a Packers v. Vikings encounter.
lol......won't it be fun.
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Bayern does not play Tikki Takka. Every passing team is not Tikki Takka.
Yes they do! That is why PeP is under fire with the board. They would like the team to have a more direct approach instead of the 'Tikki Takka' football.
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Bayern does not play Tikki Takka. Every passing team is not Tikki Takka.
Yes they do! That is why PeP is under fire with the board. They would like the team to have a more direct approach instead of the 'Tikki Takka' football.
exactly, that y they dont have a plan B and they can't even take a shot.
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Bayern does not play Tikki Takka. Every passing team is not Tikki Takka.
Yes they do! That is why PeP is under fire with the board. They would like the team to have a more direct approach instead of the 'Tikki Takka' football.
That is not Tikki Takka. The Board calls it Tikki Takka doesn't mean it is.
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Ramos is dumb as rocks, so indiscipline.
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Franz Beckenbauer, the former Bayern player, manager and president, registered his reservations about Guardiolas strategy after they were beaten 1-0 by Real in the first leg at the Bernabu last week.
Possession means nothing when your rival has all the chances to score, he said. We can be thankful that we go back to Munich only 1-0 down. In an interview with Telegraph Sport, Beckenbauer has expanded on his observations and claimed that a mesmeric possession-based style of football is not the most attractive part of the game. He also noted the clubs relative wobble in form that has resulted in three defeats already this month. When you consider that Bayerns previous three losses were spread over 18 months you can see why it is being viewed, in some circles, as a mini-crisis.
He [Guardiola] is a master for keeping the ball, Beckenbauer said. To score a goal from 30 metres, I mean, its spectacular, more attractive than to keep in pole position but its part of the philosophy, its the philosophy of Guardiola. It is his success, he had success with Barcelona and now he is very successful with Bayern Munich. They played very attractive until they won the German championship. They are not in the same stable situation like they were in before, so that is why I am a little bit concerned and a little bit worried.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/bayern-munich/10794579/Bayern-Munich-v-Real-Madrid-Carlo-Ancelotti-and-Pep-Guardiola-face-increased-pressure.html
Is not me alone who dislikes the style.
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Bayern does not play Tikki Takka. Every passing team is not Tikki Takka.
Yes they do! That is why PeP is under fire with the board. They would like the team to have a more direct approach instead of the 'Tikki Takka' football.
That is not Tikki Takka. The Board calls it Tikki Takka doesn't mean it is.
Well Kaiser calls it "mesmeric possession-based style of football" which when translated into German means Tikki Takka. ;)
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Well Kaiser calls it "mesmeric possession-based style of football" which when translated into German means Tikki Takka. ;)
Real Madrid calling it licks!
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I wonder what would happen if someone threw a banana on the field during a Packers v. Vikings encounter.
lol......won't it be fun.
ah know allyuh thinking hard bout that....forget MJ, "DON'T DO IT" :devil:
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Well Kaiser calls it "mesmeric possession-based style of football" which when translated into German means Tikki Takka. ;)
Real Madrid calling it licks!
Football is a funny thing because leading up to this game all I heard about was the German ingenuity, tactics and discipline.
But I sitting here digesting what just transpired and all I could come up with is that Bayern just get a serious cutarse.
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I have no words.
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Men on this board is real kicks oui, since when tiki taka means possession with scoring/winning? Steups, what was it called when Barca/spain dominated possession AND won everything?
That aside is RM time unless AM have something to say bout it
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Ok, I can find words now.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!! *@&^*GVHTFYUBKYU&UTRYYy*&T&^&!!!!!
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Men on this board is real kicks oui, since when tiki taka means possession with scoring/winning? Steups, what was it called when Barca/spain dominated possession AND won everything?
That aside is RM time unless AM have something to say bout it
Doh sleep on Chelsea and Mourinho.
I think the blues may have a shot at the title.
Although he can be arrogant at times, Mourinho has proven himself as a master tactician.
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Men on this board is real kicks oui, since when tiki taka means possession with scoring/winning? Steups, what was it called when Barca/spain dominated possession AND won everything?
That aside is RM time unless AM have something to say bout it
Doh sleep on Chelsea and Mourinho.
I think the blues may have a shot at the title.
Although he can be arrogant at times, Mourinho has proven himself as a master tactician.
Master tactician my foot.
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Die-hard Madrid fans are hoping Atleti "recover" in the second leg to advance to the final. In particular, this was the consistent view expressed by professional commentators also ... akin to the hope expressed by several Scousers regarding Everton and CL qualification. Of course there's the allure of an "all-Madrid" final, but some have found tactical reasons for thinking AM will triumph.
I remain cautiously optimistic, but as expressed above on the La Liga thread ... think there has to be a re-thinking of how to engage Chelsea.
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The banana pelter is a former Villareal youth coach. Imagine idiots like this in charge of teaching kids.
Also he was arrested last night.
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The banana pelter is a former Villareal youth coach. Imagine idiots like this in charge of teaching kids.
He will get an award from the Coaches association soon.
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Men on this board is real kicks oui, since when tiki taka means possession with scoring/winning? Steups, what was it called when Barca/spain dominated possession AND won everything?
That aside is RM time unless AM have something to say bout it
Doh sleep on Chelsea and Mourinho.
I think the blues may have a shot at the title.
Although he can be arrogant at times, Mourinho has proven himself as a master tactician.
Master tactician my foot.
Yeah he's not, that's why you seeing JM influence at RM still. Liked what you saw yesterday didn't you. Look back at JM time at RM.
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Men on this board is real kicks oui, since when tiki taka means possession with scoring/winning? Steups, what was it called when Barca/spain dominated possession AND won everything?
That aside is RM time unless AM have something to say bout it
Doh sleep on Chelsea and Mourinho.
I think the blues may have a shot at the title.
Although he can be arrogant at times, Mourinho has proven himself as a master tactician.
Master tactician my foot.
Yeah he's not, that's why you seeing JM influence at RM still. Liked what you saw yesterday didn't you. Look back at JM time at RM.
Elan, looks like Jose left both buses in the parking lot for this game. Both teams are attacking with pace.
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nice from torres finally hope he could get dat monkey of he should for the rest of the game.
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BOOM!!!! That's the net rippling in response ...
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:D :D :D
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Men on this board is real kicks oui, since when tiki taka means possession with scoring/winning? Steups, what was it called when Barca/spain dominated possession AND won everything?
That aside is RM time unless AM have something to say bout it
Doh sleep on Chelsea and Mourinho.
I think the blues may have a shot at the title.
Although he can be arrogant at times, Mourinho has proven himself as a master tactician.
Master tactician my foot.
Yeah he's not, that's why you seeing JM influence at RM still. Liked what you saw yesterday didn't you. Look back at JM time at RM.
What? When we were playing shite and getting knocked out of the CL? Yeah, he bought some good players - but actual game tactics? Plz.
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dis should be interesting advantage atletico
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Despite the scoreline ... advantage Chelsea still in my view ... much more fluid rendition, less tentative, more cohesive, better anticipation ... AM is missing one other player between the lines and that's out of caution ... plus Costa is playing very retracted. Not the natural AM approach.
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I thought Chelsea how how to defend! What de jail was dat?! :o
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I thought Chelsea how how to defend! What de jail was dat?! :o
Where was that defending against Liverpool on Sunday?
Steups
;D
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2 Used buses for sale.
Only one owner. Driven to and from Anfield.
Reasonable offers entertained.
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2 Used buses for sale.
Only one owner. Driven to and from Anfield.
Reasonable offers entertained.
:rotfl:
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Oh gorsh Costa, after all that drama, is a good thing (for your sake), that you scored.
Like Stamford Bridge is becoming a bad luck ground for Chelsea or what?
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That is not a Pk, Eto won the ball ahead of the player. :bs: reffing. :frustrated:
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IMO Costa will have a difficult time if he moves to Chelsea. Talented player, but his antics may eventually rub teammates , fans and the opposition the wrong way.
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Leh Chelsea park de bus now... :beermug:
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Leh Chelsea park de bus now... :beermug:
In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
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Leh Chelsea park de bus now... :beermug:
In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
We never claimed to be....
Remember what I said about Liverpool overachieving this season?
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Leh Chelsea park de bus now... :beermug:
In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
At this moment, probably not. I've already said that we need about 4 to 5 new players to be competitive on two fronts next season.
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I good now. Although ah feeling lil sorry for Eto'o. Just a tad.
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That is not a Pk, Eto won the ball ahead of the player. :bs: reffing. :frustrated:
Steupsssssss Elan have some shame please.
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That is not a Pk, Eto won the ball ahead of the player. :bs: reffing. :frustrated:
What, de ref tief allyuh again? Shocking ::)
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That is not a Pk, Eto won the ball ahead of the player. :bs: reffing. :frustrated:
What, de ref tief allyuh again? Shocking ::)
Is actually the FA fault, for making us play on Sunday.
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
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2 Used buses for sale.
Only one owner. Driven to and from Anfield.
Reasonable offers entertained.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
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Wait ... Schwartzer touched that ball? On the final goal?
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Stamford Bridge is falling down...
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Ah seeing AM knocking the ball and dominating possession. Since they are a Spanish team, is this style considered Tikki Takka? ;D
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
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Well Jose, that boring football u played first leg came back to bite you - it good... making big man fall asleep on he self....
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Well Jose, that boring football u played first leg came back to bite you - it good... making big man fall asleep on he self....
Boring football - true. Whether you is a big man, is debatable. ;D
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That is not a Pk, Eto won the ball ahead of the player. :bs: reffing. :frustrated:
Which ball he win ahead ah de player?
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02897/eto_o_2897652a.gif)
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
We only get good after we hired Rodgers....that is why he sent Carroll packing. Like it or not, we are pleasing to watch. Now yuh sounding like ah dunce.
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Well Jose, that boring football u played first leg came back to bite you - it good... making big man fall asleep on he self....
It was successful ... arguably so. Not pleasant but it ensured a second leg destined to produce more of a display.
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
We only get good after we hired Rodgers....that is why he sent Carroll packing. Like it or not, we are pleasing to watch. Now yuh sounding like ah dunce.
Why did he dispatch Carroll?
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Leh Chelsea park de bus now... :beermug:
When Liverpool getting to park their bus in the CL semis this week? How about last Sunday, Liverpool could not afford a bus?
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Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
Kenny Dalglish's team, flush with cash from a sympathetic Russian could. This team? Not so much. Yuh think Roman interested in ah used VW bus? Seems like Chelsea could never have enough buses... plus this one might actually carry allyuh further than de last purchase from Liverpool ;D
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(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/wil9402/Orion/1000-1149/1132.jpg)
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
We only get good after we hired Rodgers....that is why he sent Carroll packing. Like it or not, we are pleasing to watch. Now yuh sounding like ah dunce.
Why did he dispatch Carroll?
Because Carroll could not stay off the 'sauce'
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
We only get good after we hired Rodgers....that is why he sent Carroll packing. Like it or not, we are pleasing to watch. Now yuh sounding like ah dunce.
Ask Arsenal about being pleasing to watch. Bit naive for this level.
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
We only get good after we hired Rodgers....that is why he sent Carroll packing. Like it or not, we are pleasing to watch. Now yuh sounding like ah dunce.
Why did he dispatch Carroll?
Cause he doh fit Rodgers playing philosophy.
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Well one way or another, the champions league trophy will be in the hands of a team from Madrid this year...
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That Courtois fellow is quite good. Chelsea should buy him!
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(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/wil9402/Orion/1000-1149/1132.jpg)
London, Driver... Stamford Bridge. Park it anywhere ;D
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IMO Costa will have a difficult time if he moves to Chelsea. Talented player, but his antics may eventually rub teammates , fans and the opposition the wrong way.
There's an issue fuh sure, but after this he may not want Chelsea. We also have to see how he fares in Brazil.
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Why did he dispatch Carroll?
Cause he doh fit Rodgers playing philosophy.
Medical release. He was suffering from a severe case of s***snakeism
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Refereeing made the difference. Ghost Pk and allowing Lopez to do a hatchet job on Hazard all night. Not good.
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Hmmm lol
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Medical release. He was suffering from a severe case of s***snakeism
Harsh man... Carroll is a decent player, just limited. He's good at what he does... collecting outlet passes, holding up play and being dominant in the air. Plus nobody could cuff ah goalkeeper like de Andy Man.
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Now we know why we were
parking the bus playing brilliant counter-attacking football. We got a taste vs PSG, but they were too profligate in front of goal to make us pay. At times A.M. were making us look beyond ordinary.
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Refereeing made the difference. Ghost Pk and allowing Lopez to do a hatchet job on Hazard all night. Not good.
(http://www.discountmugs.com/cliparts/detail/10788.jpg)
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well so it go dis season do someting good today fall dung d day after ......remain unconvinced by mou "tactics" too unadventurous
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Toppa ah hope yuh have words after Lisbon. :P
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How about those Madrid teams, eh? :D :D :D
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Medical release. He was suffering from a severe case of s***snakeism
Harsh man... Carroll is a decent player, just limited. He's good at what he does... collecting outlet passes, holding up play and being dominant in the air. Plus nobody could cuff ah goalkeeper like de Andy Man.
Yuh know yuh watching West Ham when Mills Lane is the ref.
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Toppa ah hope yuh have words after Lisbon. :P
Either way I'll be happy. If Atletico wins it'll be like being proud of a younger sibling.
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Refereeing made the difference. Ghost Pk and allowing Lopez to do a hatchet job on Hazard all night. Not good.
Elan, you being beyond ridiculous. Eto'o fouled the man and hazard was asleep whole match.
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In other words, you guys aren't as good as Atletico... ::)
Atletico are a CL team... we lucky we qualify fuh next year. How much dem bus going for?
Who knew that plucky group of stock boys and day labourers could make it all the way to the top of the EPL?
It's not like this team could afford to spend 35 million quid on Andy Carroll...
We only get good after we hired Rodgers....that is why he sent Carroll packing. Like it or not, we are pleasing to watch. Now yuh sounding like ah dunce.
Why did he dispatch Carroll?
Cause he doh fit Rodgers playing philosophy.
Correct!
I heard Rodgers comment on this ... and he was explicit in expressing that Carroll's departure did not rest on a lack of quality. In fact, he was very precise on this point.
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AM doing de dog in celebrating at Stamford Bridge. Nothing like winning an emotional game away and nothing like seeing dejected English faces ... and good prep for the WC where more of the same should be on display. :)
FS, wha going on?
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Toppa ah hope yuh have words after Lisbon. :P
Either way I'll be happy. If Atletico wins it'll be like being proud of a younger sibling.
Fair enough.
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I guess this is Mourinho at his most graceful.
21.46 Here's the Chelsea manager: "The game until a certain minute was very, very equal. The first half was more ours than them. In the second half, one minute decided everything, is the penalty that kills the game. I don't know whether it was a penalty or not. Was it a penalty? Good. After that, 2-1 against Atletico is almost impossible. One team with morale high, and the last period of the game was really difficult for us."
21.48 "We had injuries, we had suspensions, we had players that cannot play in the Champions League, but we knew that. We had unhappy moments in the Premier League too. I'm proud of the players. It's disappointing to lose a second-leg semi-final at home. But I prefer to say that we did everything that was possible for us."
21.49 "Until the penalty, they were not the best team. We had the game, we had more possesion, we had more chances. We knew that in set pieces, we would have a chance."
21.50 Geoff Shreeves asks him about the final. "No, not my problem. I hope it's a good final. It looks for me that this seaosn, everything went normal. Real beat Bayern deservedly, Atletico today after 30 minutes deserved it too. Next season we will be better."
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His rhetoric with respect to the Premier League will change ... some observers think Mou had most of his chips invested in the CL and fortuitously/incidentally reaped rewards in the PL having found himself doing better this year than he might have expected. With the CL gone, let's see how he engages what's left of the domestic season.
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Yuh know yuh watching West Ham when Mills Lane is the ref.
Man pull out ah Judge Mills Lane reference yes. Ah trying tuh remember de red man who used to ref in Trinidad name.
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Jos Mourinho, Chelsea manager: They are a real team who know how to behave on the pitch. Real Madrid beat Bayern because Madrid were better and Atltico beat Chelsea because they were better after a determining moment. They are through. I hope both teams enjoy it and that there will be a great champion.
Tiago, Atltico captain: It's a dream for us. We have great spirit, great determination and we work together. Chelsea are a great team and so will Real Madrid be in the final. Diego Simeone has made us a great team so we will see what we can do against Madrid. Maybe the dream can come true.
Atltico recover to set up final against Real Madrid
Published: Wednesday 30 April 2014, 22.48CET
Chelsea FC 1-3 Club Atltico de Madrid (agg: 1-3)
The 2014 final will be an all-Madrid affair after Diego Simeone's side stormed back from 1-0 down to book a date with Real Madrid CF.
by Trevor Haylett from Stamford Bridge
Club Atltico de Madrid are through to their first UEFA Champions League final after a stunning victory at Chelsea FC set up an enticing showdown with city rivals Real Madrid CF in Lisbon on 24 May.
Having gone behind as their former pin-up boy Fernando Torres struck first, Diego Simeone's side fought back immediately with a crucial away goal from Adrin Lpez and then put the tie out of reach in the second half. Diego Costa's penalty and Arda Turan's strike gave Jos Mourinho his fourth successive failure at this stage and Chelsea a fifth defeat in seven semi-finals since 2004.
Deprived of Frank Lampard and John Obi Mikel through suspension, Mourinho selected three full-backs and deployed Csar Azpilicueta in an unfamiliar midfield role ahead of Branislav Ivanović down the right. If that encouraged a greater sense of adventure in Atltico they almost found instant reward for their enterprise.
Koke's corner was headed back out to him and a first-time ball off the side of his boot sailed over Mark Schwarzer and cannoned off the bar, the post and Gary Cahill before looping over. Chelsea tried to inject some composure into their play though the Spanish team were hustling them at every opportunity. Diego Costa twice muscled through and it required great powers of recovery from first Ashley Cole and then Cahill to deny him.
There was a smoothness to Atltico's combinations that augured well for the visitors though Chelsea are nothing if not spirited and Torres was looking particularly sprightly and motivated. It was the former Atltico No9 who broke the deadlock after Willian's wizardry set him free from two markers, enabling Azpilicueta to sweep the ball across. Torres declined to celebrate but was no doubt delighted with the deflection off Mario Surez which put the ball out of the reach of Thibaut Courtois, the goalkeeper on loan from Chelsea.
It was the first goal the visitors had conceded in seven games and they trailed for only six minutes. Former Chelsea player Tiago played a diagonal pass to the far post which Juanfran kept alive. Both John Terry and Cole were unable to clear and Adrin took full advantage.
The value of the away goal was underlined as Atltico displayed renewed belief after the restart, Schwarzer palming away Arda's strong effort. The visitors fancied their chances of a second and it arrived from the penalty spot after Samuel Eto'o, on the field for just six minutes, fouled Costa. The forward took some time attending to the penalty spot and was booked for his trouble before smashing the ball high into the net.
David Luiz sent a header against the upright at the other end but when Juanfran reprised his earlier assist, Arda first headed against the bar before tucking away the rebound. Game, set and match as Atltico celebrated a first European Champion Clubs' Cup final for 40 years.
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Refereeing made the difference. Ghost Pk and allowing Lopez to do a hatchet job on Hazard all night. Not good.
Elan, you being beyond ridiculous. Eto'o fouled the man and hazard was asleep whole match.
How about those Madrid teams, eh? :D :D :D
I think I can bet a million US dollars that the team from Madrid will win the Champions League title
::) ;D
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I guess this is Mourinho at his most graceful.
21.46 Here's the Chelsea manager: "The game until a certain minute was very, very equal. The first half was more ours than them. In the second half, one minute decided everything, is the penalty that kills the game. I don't know whether it was a penalty or not. Was it a penalty? Good. After that, 2-1 against Atletico is almost impossible. One team with morale high, and the last period of the game was really difficult for us."
21.48 "We had injuries, we had suspensions, we had players that cannot play in the Champions League, but we knew that. We had unhappy moments in the Premier League too. I'm proud of the players. It's disappointing to lose a second-leg semi-final at home. But I prefer to say that we did everything that was possible for us."
21.49 "Until the penalty, they were not the best team. We had the game, we had more possesion, we had more chances. We knew that in set pieces, we would have a chance."
21.50 Geoff Shreeves asks him about the final. "No, not my problem. I hope it's a good final. It looks for me that this seaosn, everything went normal. Real beat Bayern deservedly, Atletico today after 30 minutes deserved it too. Next season we will be better."
Jose not admitting that he was wring in not trying for the away goal.
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Refereeing made the difference. Ghost Pk and allowing Lopez to do a hatchet job on Hazard all night. Not good.
Elan, you being beyond ridiculous. Eto'o fouled the man and hazard was asleep whole match.
Eto played the ball.
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Refereeing made the difference. Ghost Pk and allowing Lopez to do a hatchet job on Hazard all night. Not good.
Elan, you being beyond ridiculous. Eto'o fouled the man and hazard was asleep whole match.
Eto played the ball.
Show the video replay of it.
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Anti-football, Pro-football or Pragmatic-Football? (http://www.7amkickoff.com/)
Jose Mourinho is the king of anti-football. Wherever he goes, King Jose is known as the coach who plays defensive football first. His own players complain about his tactics (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2011/apr/28/cristiano-ronaldo-jose-mourinho-defensive), phrases like winning ugly, abound, and neutrals, opposition managers, and fans often complain about his team parking the bus. Yet, Chelsea lead the Premier League in shots per game with 17.8. Mourinhos Real Madrid led la Liga in shots per game every season he was there and were second in possession stats behind Barcelona. And lets not forget that Mourinhos Chelsea won the Premier League scoring a record 103 goals in a season. So, which is it? Is he anti-football? Is he pro-football? Does he just play football?
The answer is rather simple, hes a pragmatician. In games against small teams his teams look to dominate offensively and in big games, according to his biography The Special One, he has the following 7 point philosophy:
The game is won by the team who commits fewer errors.
Football favors whoever provokes more errors in the opposition.
Away from home, instead of trying to be superior to the opposition, its better to encourage their mistakes.
Whoever has the ball is more likely to make a mistake.
Whoever renounces possession reduces the possibility of making a mistake.
Whoever has the ball has fear.
Whoever does not have it is therefore stronger.
This philosophy has worked especially well this season in the Premier League. Chelsea, against the top four clubs, have only conceded 2 goals and have won all but one match, a 0-0 draw with Arsenal.
(http://www.7amkickoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/top-four.png)
And if we extend that analysis out to the top seven clubs, Chelsea are still the best of the group, conceding just 5 goals, keeping 7 clean sheets, and losing just once (1-0 to Everton).
(http://www.7amkickoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/top-7.png)
He has done that without a 20 goal a season forward. His best player is Eden Hazard, an attacking midfielder with 14 goals. His best forward this season has been Samuel Etoo a 33 year old with 12 goals in all competitions. His second best forward has been Fernando Torres, 10 goals in 45 appearances.
Jose Mourinho is a defense first manager and always has been. No one is arguing that. When he managed Real Madrid, Los Blancos were one of the best counter-attacking teams in Europe. In his first season in La Liga, Real Madrid scored 24 goals (of 102) on counter attacks. He led la Liga in that category every season he was there.
Read More.... (http://www.7amkickoff.com/)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhr0ssq0nYU&list=UUQU-RyGvH1RcBmpJ-Je_vRg
@ 2:49 Guus calls Mourinho "the high priest of utilitarian football". Mourinho responds: "Good comeback". :rotfl:
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Refereeing made the difference. Ghost Pk and allowing Lopez to do a hatchet job on Hazard all night. Not good.
Elan, you being beyond ridiculous. Eto'o fouled the man and hazard was asleep whole match.
Eto played the ball.
Show the video replay of it.
https://www.youtube.com/v/2nn7qp5shic
https://www.youtube.com/v/mgv6oA2ZSLc
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Clear kick to the inside of Costa's right knee... only thing possibly debateable is whether the contact was sufficient enough to bring him down.
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Clear kick to the inside of Costa's right knee... only thing possibly debateable is whether the contact was sufficient enough to bring him down.
So the ball mysteriously changed direction.
(http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=243872&vid=4&download=1)
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Clear kick to the inside of Costa's right knee... only thing possibly debateable is whether the contact was sufficient enough to bring him down.
So the ball mysteriously changed direction.
(http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=243872&vid=4&download=1)
You must be wearing these.
(http://www.fanframes.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/o/2och002_1.jpg)
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So the ball mysteriously changed direction.
No, not mysteriously... Costa trapped/controlled the ball just as Eto'o fouled him. Come better than that man elan... even you can't be that blinkered.
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So the ball mysteriously changed direction.
No, not mysteriously... Costa trapped/controlled the ball just as Eto'o fouled him. Come better than that man elan... even you can't be that blinkered.
You have to be joking, Costa made absolutely no contact with the ball. His leg did not even come forward. Eto played the ball on the bounce. Get real.
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You have to be joking, Costa made absolutely no contact with the ball. His leg did not even come forward. Eto played the ball on the bounce. Get real.
You can't be serious... Costa is the only one who made any contact with the ball, 00:21. Eto'o didn't even protest.
https://www.youtube.com/v/D0hOxEJHGRM
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Eto'o made contact with the ball. Point for elan. However, it's not the contact with the ball that was decisive. Subtract point from elan. :devil: It was his contact with Costa (prior to contacting the ball) that earned the penalty.
No point for Bakes for reaching the correct conclusion on erroneous reasoning, although creditable in noting Eto'o's lack of protest. As a forward, Eto'o fully understood what occurred.
Actually, I'm being harsh on Bakes. He did note the contact by Eto'o on Costa in prior posts. But, I haven't seen a compelling angle to confirm Costa's contact with the ball ... although, it's not improbable, it's irrelevant.
(Nonetheless, in the 10 second video posted by elan ... I see the possible Costa contact with the ball). However, elan also be attentive to the referee's position in the other video.
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Protestors defend Villarreal fan (http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1805684/protestors-support-villarreal-fan-banana-throwing-incident-barcelona?cc=5901)
A campaign has been launched in support of the Villarreal supporter who threw a banana at Dani Alves last weekend, with one of his relatives saying he has been "lynched" by the media.
Barcelona and Brazil right-back Alves peeled and ate the banana thrown at him during a La Liga game at Villarreal on April 27. Neymar, his colleague for club and country, then immediately set in motion a pre-planned "banana-themed" social media anti-racism campaign, which received support from a number of high-profile players, including Sergio Aguero, Luis Suarez and Mario Balotelli. Leading global political figures such as Brazil president Dilma Rousseff and UN secretary general Ban-Ki Moon also offered support.
David Campayo, 26, was swiftly identified as the culprit and banned by Villarreal before being arrested by the local police and charged with provoking a racist incident.
However, the media reaction, which has included the widespread publication of Campayo's photo, has angered the youth's family and friends. A protest against this coverage was called for Vila-real's Plaza Mayor on Thursday evening, with the organisers using the slogan "We are all David" -- an apparent play on the "#weareallmonkeys" hashtag Neymar used when launching the social media campaign.
An unnamed family member told the EFE news agency: "One thing is the error he has made, which he will pay for; another is the lynching, which has been disproportionate."
Marca, meanwhile, quotes another anonymous supporter as saying: "Some journalists and media outlets have been very eager to do damage to our colleague, David.
"A protest has been organised against all the press and their negative actions -- they have done nothing more than dirty the name of our town and its inhabitants. He is no racist nor a violent person. He threw the fruit purely because he was angry in the moment. His action does not deserve this continuous lynching."
According to AS, about 1,000 people attended the protest, displaying placards that read: "Turn off the TV, open your mind" and "Stop journalism, stop misinformation." AS also reported that there were "moments of tension" between the protesters and reporters sent to cover the event.
The incident, and especially the reaction from Alves and Neymar, has brought extra focus on the issue of racism in Spanish sport. El Pais published a feature that examined the many incidents that have occurred over the last decade, accusing clubs and government authorities of failing to take action amid talk of "isolated incidents" and people getting carried away in the heat of the moment.
"The attitude of the [Spanish government's] Commission Against Violence and Racism is lazy and laissez-faire," campaigner Esteban Ibarra told El Pais. "All that happens here is that we cover up racism and violence."
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I think the ref had a position to see that Costa was going down with any idea of a challenge.
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Let me take the discussion in a slightly different direction by asking a question: can we attribute part of Mourinho's tactical liability to having a forward making the key defensive intervention on the opponent's target offensive threat?
That sort of tackle made by Eto'o is the sort of indelicate movement typified of attackers. It's generally innocuous up the pitch but typically lacks the considered approach employed by seasoned defenders in their defensive third.
Discuss.
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Credit to Neymar et al. Let the soul-searching begin on all fronts. Spanish society needs a gut check.
EDIT: The coordination for this effort comes from a Brazilian marketing firm named Loducca Publicidade.
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Eto'o made contact with the ball. Point for elan. However, it's not the contact with the ball that was decisive. Subtract point from elan. :devil: It was his contact with Costa (prior to contacting the ball) that earned the penalty.
No point for Bakes for reaching the correct conclusion on erroneous reasoning, although creditable in noting Eto'o's lack of protest. As a forward, Eto'o fully understood what occurred.
Actually, I'm being harsh on Bakes. He did note the contact by Eto'o on Costa in prior posts. But, I haven't seen a compelling angle to confirm Costa's contact with the ball ... although, it's not improbable, it's irrelevant.
(Nonetheless, in the 10 second video posted by elan ... I see the possible Costa contact with the ball). However, elan also be attentive to the referee's position in the other video.
How is my reasoning "erroneous" if I started by pointing out the clear kick to the inside of Costa's right knee? The kick happened simultaenous to him controlling the ball, look at the back spin on the ball after he traps it off the turf. Eto'o's follow through may have made contact with the ball, but that does not seem likely from the frontal look in the video I provided. But whether Eto'o made contact with the ball or not is immaterial as you state, and I never suggested otherwise, that was just to illustrate to elan the absurdity of his position that it was not a foul and that the ref cost Chelsea the game.
To your latter post, Mourinho had a forward defending and the forward conceded a penalty... it's no different from how he played vs. Liverpool at Stamford Bridge, and noteworthy that in that contest Eto'o also committed a foul on Suarez in the box, but that went unpunished. Seems like the football gods chose a more fitting occasion to balance the scales.
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You have to be joking, Costa made absolutely no contact with the ball. His leg did not even come forward. Eto played the ball on the bounce. Get real.
I was joking but like you really blind.
Tell me what is happening in this pic.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/x0p4jt.jpg)
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Yuh might take the man out of the cave but you wont get de cave out of the man. Ironically, these illiterates abuse every other teams black players while having their own on the field! So every team experiences this when they are away! At home, everyone is so happy when their "Blacks" contribute, they must forget they are racist at that point which is so sad! At least if you're gonna be racist, be hard core like Russia who is willing to throw bananas at home too.
Additionally, I think opposing fans, see this as a ploy to take these minority players off their game and shit Ill be dammed if it don't work. Maybe with this Alves thing, the tables may turn a bit! So I hope these players are prepared to eat a heck of a lot more bananas because de baccannal now start! Like a wizard here say though, Let the soul searching begin and in the interim hopefully real money will be threatened forcing the Spanish to change their course of action.
The russians; well thats a whole different ball game!
Maybe their'll be a boiling point by time their world cup come around and maybe, if we're lucky, all black players and the sympathetic white ones will make a stand and boycott Russia Worldcup. I'm certain Russians will be happy. but Russia herself may not appreciate all that negative attention!
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The other day I asked what would happen if the banana incident happened in the NFL.
Couple days later it's the NHL that is confronted with racist sentiment all because a black man scored a winning goal in OT. If yuh short on time start from 5:33. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bBvPKJ4dSo)
Interestingly, in this video from 2012, @ 0:36 Subban talks about doing the same thing Alves did. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuADxN3-Zws)
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The saddest thing is that they don't consider themselves racist - look at the supporters who rallied around this racist ass. They think attacking a player's race is an acceptable response on the football pitch in order to put them off, and compartmentalise that part of their life with how they deal with people in general. Sheer ignorance, and education is the main long-term solution, but that requires political will to effect this change which seems to be sorely lacking in Southern Europe and has been lacking for decades
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https://www.youtube.com/v/kfWvrWKPdyo
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According to AS, about 1,000 people attended the protest, displaying placards that read: "Turn off the TV, open your mind" and "Stop journalism, stop misinformation." AS also reported that there were "moments of tension" between the protesters and reporters sent to cover the event.
Seems an inflated figure based on footage seen ...
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Brazil's Alves wants leniency for 'banana' fan
Brazilian-born Barcelona defender Dani Alves said Sunday he wanted some leniency for the Spanish fan banned for throwing a banana near him during a game.
"There does have to be a punishment, but I don't believe in paying evil with evil," Alves told broadcaster Globo.
"People have to educate. You can't do it in this way," said Alves, after Liga outfit Villarreal last week handed a life ban to the fan who threw the fruit.
Alves won widespread credit for his cool response -- he simply peeled the fruit and ate it before taking a corner.
The response won acclaim, with even Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff tweeting her admiration for "a daring and strong response" to an incidence of racism.
"It is the strong who forgive," Alves said.
He indicated he would be unhappy to see the 26-year-old banana thrower, David Campayo, lose his livelihood if sentenced to jail time.
"He is a family man and has to support his family by some means," Alves told a Globo reporter in Barcelona.
His response, an attempted "intelligent response to a attack," came after just one of several incidents with racist overtones at Spanish matches recently.
Sunday saw another, with Levante's Senegalese midfielder Pape Diop saying he had been the subject of monkey chanting by Atletico Madrid fans.
After the Alves incident fellow athletes, including Brazil star and Barca teammate Neymar, posted pictures of themselves chomping bananas on social media sites.
The incident has since dominated media discussion in Brazil, while Neymar's PR firm launched a "We Are All Monkeys" social media initiative to slam racism in sport.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/brazils-alves-wants-leniency-banana-fan-023317687.html#2wDc7Ft
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Classy guy, but justice (however that is decided) needs to be applied in order to protect others. This is beyond football - it's part of a wider battle against racism in society and I personally can't see the justification for treating him leniently - having a family doesn't absolve him of the responsibility of not being a ass-hat.
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Central F.C.'s answer to racism in a tribute to Dani Alves #weareallmonkeys
"Like" this video and send a message to kick racism out of football. Please share with all of your friends.
http://centralfctt.com/videos/video.php?v=14 (http://centralfctt.com/videos/video.php?v=14)
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Look ting! Allyuh in de mix. Well done.
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Central F.C.'s answer to racism in a tribute to Dani Alves #weareallmonkeys
"Like" this video and send a message to kick racism out of football. Please share with all of your friends.
http://centralfctt.com/videos/video.php?v=14 (http://centralfctt.com/videos/video.php?v=14)
People sharing and liking this like crazy on social media. Shaka going to put in on ESPN and it may go out on BBC or Sky Sports.
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FS, how come all of the starting XI didn't have a banana?
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FS, how come all of the starting XI didn't have a banana?
LOL. I think some of them were in their pre match trance and forgot! Players like Jan-Michael have very strict rituals. You may notice in penalty shoot outs that he lays down on the ground with his eyes covered when we take pens!
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Makes it even more compelling.....sorry Bakes, but it's always different in this case right.
It doesn't make it "even more compelling," quite the opposite... he was voted POY by his fellow players. Seems clear the significance of me highlighting "PFA" was lost on you. It hardly seems likely that his fellow players would vote him player of the year if there was any substance to your charge that he's a racist.
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Makes it even more compelling.....sorry Bakes, but it's always different in this case right.
It doesn't make it "even more compelling," quite the opposite... he was voted POY by his fellow players. Seems clear the significance of me highlighting "PFA" was lost on you. It hardly seems likely that his fellow players would vote him player of the year if there was any substance to your charge that he's a racist.
Exactly, if the players don't see anything wrong, then nothing's wrong.
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Exactly, if the players don't see anything wrong, then nothing's wrong.
Is not a matter of them not seeing anything wrong... maybe it's because the situation is exaggerated/distorted to the outside world looking on. Heck even Evra has made his peace with the man.
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Kudos to Nosa Igiebor and Roque Santa Cruz for speaking out on this issue.
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Exactly, if the players don't see anything wrong, then nothing's wrong.
Is not a matter of them not seeing anything wrong... maybe it's because the situation is exaggerated/distorted to the outside world looking on. Heck even Evra has made his peace with the man.
A real man Evra, forgive them. Thanks for letting me know, now Evra is in my good books. ;)
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Spanish government blast racism fine (http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1814906/spanish-government-appeal-villarreal-fine?cc=5901)
Barca and Brazil full-back Alves picked up and ate the banana, leading to a social media campaign led by his club and country teammate Neymar, which drew global attention to the issue of racism in Spanish football.
Villarreal quickly identified and banned the fan responsible, and he was also arrested and charged by local police, but La Liga authorities (LFP) decided against taking strong action against the club -- such as forcing them to play behind closed doors -- and instead issued a fine and banned the thrower from sporting events for two years.
Spain's Sports minister Miguel Cardenal has told TVE's breakfast show that such a punishment sent an insufficiently strong message about the country's attitude to racist acts.
"We must have zero tolerance on racism," Cardenal said. "Any measure you take is not enough. We must fight with all our efforts and not debate if we have more or less racism than other countries. Any level is completely wrong. To me the punishment seemed insufficient, and if possible, we will appeal it. It is something which the Anti-violence Commission are studying."
Cardenal echoed the view of ex-Barcelona defender Lilian Thuram that as a high-profile sport football should set an example on important issues such as this.
"You must send a clear message to society and give a lesson on this matter," he said. "With the financial resources which football has in our country, if the response to an incident like this is [a fine of] 12.000 euros, in my opinion the message that is sent to society is not at all proportional to the size of the phenomenon. I would like for clubs to accept when punishments are handed out, and take more responsibility in eradicating this."
In a statement to Europa Press Spain's official Commission against Violence, Racism, Xenophobia and Intolerance in Sport, which has been criticised recently for turning a blind-eye to similar racist incidents in the past, also said it thought the measures announced by La Liga's authorities in this case were not strong enough.
"The commission does not share the content of said disciplinary decision, made public in the media, and considers that it should be revised given the seriousness of the incident," the statement said.
Villarreal coach Marcelino has meanwhile pointed out that many similar incidents of racism inside Spanish football grounds have gone unpunished in the past.
"Fines of 10,000 or 20,000 euros [do not solve the problem]," Marcelino said in Marca. "There have been situations much bigger than this incident. I want to say that we are making mistakes in something. This is something which does not just happen at El Madrigal, it happens in nearly every stadium."
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Hard to really make the case tha the club deserved to be punished more severely though.
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Hard to really make the case tha the club deserved to be punished more severely though.
Compared to the disgracefully lenient precedents set by FIFA and the Spanish FA, I agree. When trying to set a new precedent that actually deters racism? Easy to argue that - Banning English teams from participating in Europe was an appropriate response to the thuggery of football hooliganism - why isn't racism deemed anywhere near as unacceptable?
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Compared to the disgracefully lenient precedents set by FIFA and the Spanish FA, I agree. When trying to set a new precedent that actually deters racism? Easy to argue that - Banning English teams from participating in Europe was an appropriate response to the thuggery of football hooliganism - why isn't racism deemed anywhere near as unacceptable?
Banning English teams was both arbitrary and ineffectual... it just prevented English teams from participating. Liverpool wasn't responsible for the Heysel tragedy but the club and all English teams were banned... to what end. That sure cured "the thuggery (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/nov/03/english-football-hooliganism) of football hooliganism (http://www.football-italia.net/48703/coppa-fans-shot-rome), didn't it?
Just as Liverpool paid unnecessarily for the actions of a few idiots, so too would a stiffer penalty punish Villreal unnecessarily for the actions of one idiot. What could the do proactively to prevent fans from making racist chants? And the banana throwing... ban bananas from the stadium?
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Three comments:
1. Good to see that this socially conservative Spanish government understands the need for strong pronouncements and stronger action.
2. In Spain there has to be a policy starting point of proper and consistent consequences for racist conduct. Although not unprecedented events of racist conduct, the present events present a viable point at which to depart from the status quo of inconsistency and a lack of uniformity in response. Without an elimination of inconsistent responses, other protesters will gather in the streets to support individuals who have been punished for racist conduct - if only to point to a catalogue of other incidents of misconduct in which responses were insufficient or tempered or non-existent. Spanish society's resolution of this issue has no chance of advancing if any of the stakeholders of the game - including the public at large - are not properly held accountable.
3. Any assessment of the fine imposed on the club as being reflective of proper accountability is misguided.
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Compared to the disgracefully lenient precedents set by FIFA and the Spanish FA, I agree. When trying to set a new precedent that actually deters racism? Easy to argue that - Banning English teams from participating in Europe was an appropriate response to the thuggery of football hooliganism - why isn't racism deemed anywhere near as unacceptable?
Banning English teams was both arbitrary and ineffectual... it just prevented English teams from participating. Liverpool wasn't responsible for the Heysel tragedy but the club and all English teams were banned... to what end. That sure cured "the thuggery (http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/nov/03/english-football-hooliganism) of football hooliganism (http://www.football-italia.net/48703/coppa-fans-shot-rome), didn't it?
Just as Liverpool paid unnecessarily for the actions of a few idiots, so too would a stiffer penalty punish Villreal unnecessarily for the actions of one idiot. What could the do proactively to prevent fans from making racist chants? And the banana throwing... ban bananas from the stadium?
Bakes your article doesn't contradict my point as I wasn't talking about European hooliganism, which is still a staple fixture - English hooliganism is at an all-time low, and I'm of the opinion that the European ban, combined with tough policing policies and an engagement with clubs by the police helped reduce it. The European ban was a smaller part of it, but it was a sign of how bad the times had come and at least stopped English hooligans beating up on foreigners for a while.
Villareal should be punished for one idiot - he's a paid representative of their club which makes them more culpable imo. If all individuals guilty of racist chanting got lifetime bans, see how quickly they'll stop chanting. The banana isn't the problem here it's the morons throwing them, so banning bananas would be ridiculous - you're straw-manning the possible responses. I get your argument that you shouldn't punish the many for the few - but we're talking about an organisation that derives its money and power from the strong group mentality it can foster.
The banana throw is indicative of a culture of normalised racism in Spanish football that needs a more robust response - these slaps on the wrist send the wrong message - be racist and we'll tut-tut you. In England, there'd be a massive uproar and serious consequences, in Spain, some pathetic fine and protesters supporting the racism.
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Bakes your article doesn't contradict my point as I wasn't talking about European hooliganism, which is still a staple fixture - English hooliganism is at an all-time low, and I'm of the opinion that the European ban, combined with tough policing policies and an engagement with clubs by the police helped reduce it. The European ban was a smaller part of it, but it was a sign of how bad the times had come and at least stopped English hooligans beating up on foreigners for a while.
Not only does it contradict your argument, it completely eviscerates any point you were trying to make by suggesting banning as a remedy. English teams were banned and hooliganism hasn't been eradicated... so it's pointless to bring it into the conversation. Not only that, but it's ridiculous to even attempt to make a comparison between hooliganism and racism, beyond the fact that both are disfavored fan behavior. Proper policing is what has curbed hooliganism more than anything, and if you follow the links I provided, you'll see that Russian is reaching out to English counterparts for help in controlling growing hooliganism, and none of the solutions being proposed is a ban on Russian clubs from European competition.
Villareal should be punished for one idiot - he's a paid representative of their club which makes them more culpable imo. If all individuals guilty of racist chanting got lifetime bans, see how quickly they'll stop chanting. The banana isn't the problem here it's the morons throwing them, so banning bananas would be ridiculous - you're straw-manning the possible responses. I get your argument that you shouldn't punish the many for the few - but we're talking about an organisation that derives its money and power from the strong group mentality it can foster.
If this fool punched someone in the face during the match would you also argue that Villareal was culpable for his actions just because he is on their payroll? Are they responsible for everything he does in his private life since he's an employee? It's foolish reasoning at best. He was not representing the club or acting within the scope of his employ at the time.
I'm "straw-manning" and you're talking shit as usual. You should pay closer attention, this isn't about not punishing the many for the few, it's about not punishing the innocent for the guilty, especially when the wider punishment has very little chance of influencing the actions of the guilty. Forcing the team to play behind closed doors might be the best solution, but even then you punish the other club as well, who will suffer from not having their fans in the stands. The cub did just about the fairest thing possible, it banned the fan for life... and presumably terminated him as well.
The banana throw is indicative of a culture of normalised racism in Spanish football that needs a more robust response - these slaps on the wrist send the wrong message - be racist and we'll tut-tut you. In England, there'd be a massive uproar and serious consequences, in Spain, some pathetic fine and protesters supporting the racism.
Serious consequences like what?? How would an English club be punished? This is the gist of the discussion, you didn't call for more civil or criminal penalties, you advocated more punishment for the club. Tell us how the situation would be different in England because I cannot recall an instance of an English club being punished for the racist actions of its fans.
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FS?
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Bakes yuh always get so vex, seriously you need to chill and step away from the keyboard or learn not to take every minor point as a personal affront. So go take a sip of tea before you read the post eh
Not only does it contradict your argument, it completely eviscerates any point you were trying to make by suggesting banning as a remedy. English teams were banned and hooliganism hasn't been eradicated... so it's pointless to bring it into the conversation. Not only that, but it's ridiculous to even attempt to make a comparison between hooliganism and racism, beyond the fact that both are disfavored fan behavior. Proper policing is what has curbed hooliganism more than anything, and if you follow the links I provided, you'll see that Russian is reaching out to English counterparts for help in controlling growing hooliganism, and none of the solutions being proposed is a ban on Russian clubs from European competition.
*sigh* you're being ridiculous - no one's talking in absolutes and this is the strawmanning that you're guilty of. Football arrests hit the lowest ever in 2011-12 in Britain, and now stands in 2012-13 at 1800 out of a total attendance of nearly 30 million. Secondly, we're talking about the proper punishment, which is separate from how you should reduce it - a combination of strong punishment with good policing is obviously the appropriate response. Clearly, you shouldn't start with banning them from Europe, but banning clubs for particularly egregious violations of the anti-racism stance should absolutely be a punishment on the table. Britain has a horrific history of hooliganism pre 1990s both home and abroad, and with that respect the hooliganism of Heysel and the punishment thereof were an accumulation of all that came before.
IMO it was the appropriate response and set a meaningful precedent in how UEFA deals with repeated, grossly violent behaviour. If an organisation can't adequately ensure the safety of others then it should lose the right to profit from or engage in these matches.
If this fool punched someone in the face during the match would you also argue that Villareal was culpable for his actions just because he is on their payroll? Are they responsible for everything he does in his private life since he's an employee? It's foolish reasoning at best. He was not representing the club or acting within the scope of his employ at the time.
I'm "straw-manning" and you're talking shit as usual. You should pay closer attention, this isn't about not punishing the many for the few, it's about not punishing the innocent for the guilty, especially when the wider punishment has very little chance of influencing the actions of the guilty. Forcing the team to play behind closed doors might be the best solution, but even then you punish the other club as well, who will suffer from not having their fans in the stands. The cub did just about the fairest thing possible, it banned the fan for life... and presumably terminated him as well.
If a doctor is criminally negligent, does the hospital bear no responsibility? Whether we like it or not we continue to be a representative of our place of work even when outside it, which is why you can be fired for actions taken away from work. Moreover, it's hard to argue that he cannot be seen as representing the club when on their premises. Whilst cautious about stepping out of my expertise and into yours, there have been numerous examples of companies being punished for the actions of their agents, and in the example here surely being an employee at your place of work clearly has implications whether you're on the clock or not. Moreover, we're talking about an organisation of clubs that sign up to their own internal laws, which stipulate that clubs bear a measure of responsibility for the behaviour of their fans.
Serious consequences like what?? How would an English club be punished? This is the gist of the discussion, you didn't call for more civil or criminal penalties, you advocated more punishment for the club. Tell us how the situation would be different in England because I cannot recall an instance of an English club being punished for the racist actions of its fans.
Millwall have been charged twice in the past 10 years, and the punishment by the FA tends to be matches behind closed doors, a fine, and the potential of points deductions. Sadly I think Millwall won the appeal, so I'll probably concede this point.
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Bakes yuh always get so vex, seriously you need to chill and step away from the keyboard or learn not to take every minor point as a personal affront. So go take a sip of tea before you read the post eh
Don't be an ass, focus on the discussion taking place in this thread and don't worry about playing armchair cyber psychologist. Me telling you that yuh talking shit as usual is hardly proof that I have taken "personal affront" or otherwise vex.
*sigh* you're being ridiculous - no one's talking in absolutes and this is the strawmanning that you're guilty of. Football arrests hit the lowest ever in 2011-12 in Britain, and now stands in 2012-13 at 1800 out of a total attendance of nearly 30 million. Secondly, we're talking about the proper punishment, which is separate from how you should reduce it - a combination of strong punishment with good policing is obviously the appropriate response. Clearly, you shouldn't start with banning them from Europe, but banning clubs for particularly egregious violations of the anti-racism stance should absolutely be a punishment on the table. Britain has a horrific history of hooliganism pre 1990s both home and abroad, and with that respect the hooliganism of Heysel and the punishment thereof were an accumulation of all that came before.
IMO it was the appropriate response and set a meaningful precedent in how UEFA deals with repeated, grossly violent behaviour. If an organisation can't adequately ensure the safety of others then it should lose the right to profit from or engage in these matches.
You're right... no one is "talking absolutes" unless you could show where I have I'll again have to ask you to focus on what's taking place in the conversation, and not what's taking place in your head. Football arrests occurring at an all-time low in England is hardly proof that the European ban worked. Focus harder and try again. Banning clubs for "particularly egregious" violations might be appropriate, except we're talking about what would be appropriate punishment for Villareal... not for the "most-egregious" violators. Unless, of course you're so foolish as to suggest that this current action is particularly egregious on Villareal's part.
If a doctor is criminally negligent, does the hospital bear no responsibility? Whether we like it or not we continue to be a representative of our place of work even when outside it, which is why you can be fired for actions taken away from work. Moreover, it's hard to argue that he cannot be seen as representing the club when on their premises. Whilst cautious about stepping out of my expertise and into yours, there have been numerous examples of companies being punished for the actions of their agents, and in the example here surely being an employee at your place of work clearly has implications whether you're on the clock or not. Moreover, we're talking about an organisation of clubs that sign up to their own internal laws, which stipulate that clubs bear a measure of responsibility for the behaviour of their fans.
Don't be cautious, simply refrain because you don't know what you're talking about as evidenced by your failure to appreciate the careful language that I used, "[h]e was not representing the club [n]or acting within the scope of his employ at the time." A doctor cannot practice medicine at a hospital unless he has practicing privileges at that facility, meaning he has the permission to act within the scope and with the responsibilities outlined by the hospital. By doing so he becomes an agent of the hospital. This fool who threw the banana wasn't acting within the scope of his position as youth coach, nor has it been shown that he had the permission of the club to racially abuse Alves. Villareal are no more responsible for his actions on their premises, than the US Postal Service is responsible for the actions of a rogue employee who comes to work and decides to shoot up the place ("goes postal"). Your position gets weaker with every subsequent utterance.
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Bakes, did the ban help or not? What value did the ban provide?
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Bakes, did the ban help or not? What value did the ban provide?
I can't quantify the value of the ban... in fact I doubt anyone can. Without a doubt the ban in concert with restrictions on the sale of alcohol and the admittance of fans under the influence, along with better, more proactive police measures played a part in curbing fan behavior. But any real benefit would have been derived, I think, by fans themselves being punished by not being allowed to see their teams play. This is why I suggested that perhaps forcing the teams to play behind close doors might be the only real deterrent.
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You're right... no one is "talking absolutes" unless you could show where I have I'll again have to ask you to focus on what's taking place in the conversation, and not what's taking place in your head. Football arrests occurring at an all-time low in England is hardly proof that the European ban worked. Focus harder and try again. Banning clubs for "particularly egregious" violations might be appropriate, except we're talking about what would be appropriate punishment for Villareal... not for the "most-egregious" violators. Unless, of course you're so foolish as to suggest that this current action is particularly egregious on Villareal's part.
Your argument is confused. My initial point was that the European ban helped solve the Hooliganism problem in England, along with the new policing tactics. Your response was that the existence of hooliganism in Italy and Russia's deference to English police tactics somehow disproved that - which was a strawman of my argument at best and utterly unrelated at worst (you did one or both of; extrapolated my argument to apply to Europe and/or asserted that since it didn't wipe out hooliganism totally that it was a failure). Specifically, you said;
Banning English teams was both arbitrary and ineffectual... it just prevented English teams from participating. Liverpool wasn't responsible for the Heysel tragedy but the club and all English teams were banned... to what end. That sure cured "the thuggery of football hooliganism, didn't it?
Your last sentence brings in your examples, which is where I have asserted you strawmanned my argument by implying that the ban should have whiped out hooliganism across Europe (otherwise why bring up the Italian example?).
On the broader point - it's impossible to discern whether the ban had any impact over the policing tactics (which undoubtedly had the biggest impact), but it's my opinion that it did, which is where we differ. There's no way to tell whether it did, but either way the second question - whether it was the right punishment - is one there's more to be debated over. The Heysal disaster saw 14 people convicted for manslaughter, so there was both a combination of individual prosecution and club punishment. My position isn't that individuals are not punished - they certainly should be. I assert that the club should also bear some responsibility for the behaviour of their fans.
You haven't addressed the point that clubs sign up to regulations as part of being in the La Liga, which makes them responsible (to a degree) for the behaviour of their fans.
Don't be cautious, simply refrain because you don't know what you're talking about as evidenced by your failure to appreciate the careful language that I used, "[h]e was not representing the club [n]or acting within the scope of his employ at the time." A doctor cannot practice medicine at a hospital unless he has practicing privileges at that facility, meaning he has the permission to act within the scope and with the responsibilities outlined by the hospital. By doing so he becomes an agent of the hospital. This fool who threw the banana wasn't acting within the scope of his position as youth coach, nor has it been shown that he had the permission of the club to racially abuse Alves. Villareal are no more responsible for his actions on their premises, than the US Postal Service is responsible for the actions of a rogue employee who comes to work and decides to shoot up the place ("goes postal"). Your position gets weaker with every subsequent utterance.
Fair enough, as I can't reasonably assume he was given a free ticket to the game or expected to attend as part of his club duties (some clubs require their coaching staff to attend without requiring them in the dugout, allowing them to sit with family etc), which would obviously change the context.
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n the context of a lawsuit, the deep pocket is often the target defendant, even when the true (moral) culpability is with another party because the deep pocket has money to pay a verdict. For example, a lawyer may comment that he or she sued the manufacturer of a product rather than the seller because it is the deep pocket, meaning it has more money than the seller with which to compensate the victim.
The money should start being paid to the player/s who were the target of racist abuse.
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Your argument is confused. My initial point was that the European ban helped solve the Hooliganism problem in England, along with the new policing tactics. Your response was that the existence of hooliganism in Italy and Russia's deference to English police tactics somehow disproved that - which was a strawman of my argument at best and utterly unrelated at worst (you did one or both of; extrapolated my argument to apply to Europe and/or asserted that since it didn't wipe out hooliganism totally that it was a failure).
Your initial comment lacked any of mention of policing efforts, concentrating focus on the ban itselt. Other than pointing that out, I am no longer going to waste any time engaging you in your sophism and lack of candor..
Compared to the disgracefully lenient precedents set by FIFA and the Spanish FA, I agree. When trying to set a new precedent that actually deters racism? Easy to argue that - Banning English teams from participating in Europe was an appropriate response to the thuggery of football hooliganism - why isn't racism deemed anywhere near as unacceptable?
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FS?
I was a regular attendee at matches during this period, either at Anfield, Highbury :-[ or Priestfield (Gillingham) as well as virtually every England match at Wembley.
Heysel and Hillsborough had a double whammy effect on most supporters, and the Government stepped up to seriously address hooliganism and crowd safety at sporting events. The concept of caging fans was obviously flawed as the cages were a danger in themselves. Those were the days of mounted policemen whacking anybody in sight with riot batons (I nearly copped a cracked skull at Villa Park after Man U fans rushed Arsenal supporters after an F.A. Cup semi final)
There is no real way of calculating the effect of the ban on hooliganism in a tangible manner, but there certainly was a sea change over those 4 or 5 years. The cages came down, seating was installed, clubs were required to employ ample well trained stewards. Fans saw their status changed from supporter to customer. Suddenly, you could wear your teams jersey to matches without fear of a beating.
It seemed that overnight, hooliganism reduced radically (although it was probably more like a season or two). It really was that quick.
Being a Liverpool supporter, those days after Heysel were very sobering. You also must remember that two weeks before Heysel was the Bradford City fire. At both Heysel and Bradford you saw the best and worst of football supporters. While some bravely risked their lives to save others, many more exhibited the mindless tribal outrage which is football hooliganism. (Which also occurred at Hillsborough)
Unless you have actually been in a situation with 10's of thousands of fans, it would seem hard to understand how decent supporters can react in that manner. I seem to recall Juventus fans throwing flares into the Liverpool fans. No doubt, before that, there was plenty of verbal abuse from both sides and possibly, pelting of bottles etc. I'm not blaming Juventus fans for the tragedy, but there is usually a spark that ignites an explosion. When it "kicks off" panic sets in, which often leads to pushing and fear of being crushed.
The implementation of proper segregation, organised policing and provision of emergency procedures all helped to reduce hooliganism as well as the restriction of alcohol sales and, of course, removal of standing on terraces.
Personally, I think the European ban didn't influence the hooligans, but it made the clubs, police and government address the issue as a matter of national importance, so in that way, the ban brought about change, but the changes didn't really gain pace until after Hillsborough, which really should have been avoided. Perhaps it took the death of British fans as opposed to Italians, for the authorities to really get serious?
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Being a Liverpool supporter, those days after Heysel were very sobering. You also must remember that two weeks before Heysel was the Bradford City fire. At both Heysel and Bradford you saw the best and worst of football supporters. While some bravely risked their lives to save others, many more exhibited the mindless tribal outrage which is football hooliganism. (Which also occurred at Hillsborough)
Wait... what hooliganism took place at Hillsborough?
Also a month before Heysel, Liverpool fans were attacked and beaten by Fiorentina fans in Rome. This in turn set the stage for Heysel when Liverpool fans were determined that "the Italians were not going to do that to us again".
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Also, in every club that I have worked with, coaching staff (including youth coaches) are expected to attend 1st team home games unless of course they are actually coaching elsewhere. Even in the Pro League this is usual.
Therefore, this guy would probably have been officially at the game and may well have had various duties such as dealing with mascots, ball boys etc or even looking after youth team players at the game.
However, that doesn't mean, in my opinion, that the club is culpable. Yes, they should fire him for bringing the club into disrepute, but, as Bakes pointed out, you can't expect the club to forsee such an event (unless, of course, the guy had exhibited a racist tendency beforehand.)
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Also, in every club that I have worked with, coaching staff (including youth coaches) are expected to attend 1st team home games unless of course they are actually coaching elsewhere. Even in the Pro League this is usual.
Therefore, this guy would probably have been officially at the game and may well have had various duties such as dealing with mascots, ball boys etc or even looking after youth team players at the game.
However, that doesn't mean, in my opinion, that the club is culpable. Yes, they should fire him for bringing the club into disrepute, but, as Bakes pointed out, you can't expect the club to forsee such an event (unless, of course, the guy had exhibited a racist tendency beforehand.)
Even if he was there at the behest of the club, throwing bananas is not part of his duties... he was therefore acting beyond the scope of his employ and thus his employer cannot be held vicariously liable for his actions. See the postal worker example above.
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Being a Liverpool supporter, those days after Heysel were very sobering. You also must remember that two weeks before Heysel was the Bradford City fire. At both Heysel and Bradford you saw the best and worst of football supporters. While some bravely risked their lives to save others, many more exhibited the mindless tribal outrage which is football hooliganism. (Which also occurred at Hillsborough)
Wait... what hooliganism took place at Hillsborough?
Also a month before Heysel, Liverpool fans were attacked and beaten by Fiorentina fans in Rome. This in turn set the stage for Heysel when Liverpool fans were determined that "the Italians were not going to do that to us again".
Well, I guess that depends on how you define hooliganism. Maybe a better description is "herd mentality". As I mentioned, when in the kind of crush that was experienced outside before the game, people push and shove out of impatience or panic. People get vexed. It may not have been hooliganism per se, but some fans were vexed with the police and there were things thrown. I included Hillsborough merely to highlight the effect of mass hysteria on usually well behaved supporters.
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Also, in every club that I have worked with, coaching staff (including youth coaches) are expected to attend 1st team home games unless of course they are actually coaching elsewhere. Even in the Pro League this is usual.
Therefore, this guy would probably have been officially at the game and may well have had various duties such as dealing with mascots, ball boys etc or even looking after youth team players at the game.
However, that doesn't mean, in my opinion, that the club is culpable. Yes, they should fire him for bringing the club into disrepute, but, as Bakes pointed out, you can't expect the club to forsee such an event (unless, of course, the guy had exhibited a racist tendency beforehand.)
Even if he was there at the behest of the club, throwing bananas is not part of his duties... he was therefore acting beyond the scope of his employ and thus his employer cannot be held vicariously liable for his actions. See the postal worker example above.
Erm, isn't that the point I just made?
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Well, I guess that depends on how you define hooliganism. Maybe a better description is "herd mentality". As I mentioned, when in the kind of crush that was experienced outside before the game, people push and shove out of impatience or panic. People get vexed. It may not have been hooliganism per se, but some fans were vexed with the police and there were things thrown. I included Hillsborough merely to highlight the effect of mass hysteria on usually well behaved supporters.
Apologies in advance for the book... but I think you need to check your facts. Hillsborough had nothing to do with hooliganism, there is only one definition of hooliganism and it certainly does not apply to the Hillsborough disaster. Hillsborough happened as the result of extremely poor planning by local police, poor planning by the stadium management, and an extremely poor response by Police Superintendent David Duckenfield. The regular police Supt. was tranferred from Sheffield and in his place was sent Duckenfield, who knew little about football (at the press conf. he referred to Nottingham Forest as "Nottinghamshire"), let alone football crowd management.
Local police were in over their heads with crowd control at the gates, in large part because stadium management didn't have enough turnstiles open to avoid the bottlenecking at the turnstiles. Even so, once thru the turnstiles, fans were funnelled into the pens thru a narrow tunnel... with no opportunity to go anywhere but into the Leppings end. This wasn't some one-off accident, the same thing happened in 1981 during the FA Cup Semi-Final between Tottenham and Wolverhampton Wolves... and again in 1987 and 1988. Authorities were on notice as to the danger but failed to do anything to prevent it:
These deficiencies were well known and further overcrowding problems at the turnstiles in 1987 and on the terrace in 1988 were additional indications of the inherent dangers to crowd safety. The risks were known and the crush in 1989 was foreseeable.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/Section-1/summary/page-3/
Duckenfield saw that the crowd was getting larger outside the gates as kick-off neared. He SAW that the pens were overcrowded, but more concerned that fans outside would get unruly, he ordered that the exit gates be opened to let them in, ticket or no ticket. Fans walked in, nobody ran, nobody pushed... all of this is captured on film. People were orderly. The problem is that they couldn't go anywhere else but thru the tunnels... and into the pens. The fans coming in had no idea what was happening inside the pens, let alone in the front of the pens. Duckenfield did however, because he was up in the Police Control Box watching it unfold before his eyes. He panicked, froze, abdicated his duty and 96 people died as a result.
To compound matters, he lied in the aftermath and claimed that fans were drunk, rowdy and out of control. The coroner was in cahoots with the police and took checked the blood alcohol levels of every one of the victims. None had any significant level of alcohol in their system, nor did survivors taken to hospital, nor from the footage do you see any of the fans looking obviously intoxicated. I'm sure many were drinking, but "hooliganism" or tribalism (they were all Liverpool fans... what tribalism?) had nothing to do with it.
The idea that alcohol contributed to the disaster was raised at an early stage, and has proved remarkably durable despite being dismissed by the Taylor Report. The disclosed documents confirm the repeated attempts that were made to find supporting evidence for this.
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The weight placed on alcohol in the face of objective evidence of a pattern of consumption modest for a leisure event was inappropriate. It has since fuelled persistent and unsustainable assertions about drunken fan behaviour.
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There was no evidence to support the proposition that alcohol played any part in the genesis of the disaster and it is regrettable that those in positions of responsibility created and promoted a portrayal of drunkenness as contributing to the occurrence of the disaster and the ensuing loss of life without substantiating evidence.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/Section-1/summary/page-7/
The report makes clear that fan behavior played no part in the tragedy:
Yet, from the mass of documents, television and CCTV coverage disclosed to the Panel there is no evidence to support these allegations [of fan misconduct] other than a few isolated examples of aggressive or verbally abusive behaviour clearly reflecting frustration and desperation.
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As the severity of the disaster was becoming apparent, SYP Match Commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, told a falsehood to senior officials that Liverpool fans had broken into the stadium and caused an inrush into the central pens thus causing the fatal crush. While later discredited, this unfounded allegation was broadcast internationally and was the first explanation of the cause of the disaster to enter the public domain.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/Section-1/summary/page-14/
Police even lied and said that cops were being pissed on and attacked by fans. This was undermined by honest cops who reported otherwise... the reports were changed ("sanitized") by local police higher ups.
Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor's findings, the Panel found no evidence among the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead.
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/Section-1/summary/page-14/
So pervasive were the lies and cover up smearing the victims that here you are and Englishman, one who calls himself a Liverpool supporter at the time no less, and they have you and so many others in England still blaming the victims.
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Are bananas sold within the stadium?
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Erm, isn't that the point I just made?
No.
You addressed whether Campayo Lleo's actions were foreseeable to Villareal... in other words whether they knew or should have known that he was going to throw the banana. You suggest that that lack of foreseeability is grounds for the club not to be held responsible. Without turning this into some kinda law class... what I stated is separate from the foreseeability factor, I addressed vicarious liabilty by the club (what in legalese is known as respondeat superior).
Liability by the employer hinges on whether the employee was acting within the normal scope of his employ. If he was acting within that scope, and someone gets hurt then his employer is responsible. Ex. a UPS driver getting into an accident with the company truck while out on delivery. UPS is vicariously liable. A UPS driver who says "f**k this job," takes a truck without permission and then decides to go joyriding, and who then gets into an accident, would be responsible for his own actions, the company would not. What Campayo Lleo did in throwing the banana, what the disgruntled postal worker does in shooting up the place, those don't fall under the employer's responsibility.
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Bakes, did the ban help or not? What value did the ban provide?
I can't quantify the value of the ban... in fact I doubt anyone can. Without a doubt the ban in concert with restrictions on the sale of alcohol and the admittance of fans under the influence, along with better, more proactive police measures played a part in curbing fan behavior. But any real benefit would have been derived, I think, by fans themselves being punished by not being allowed to see their teams play. This is why I suggested that perhaps forcing the teams to play behind close doors might be the only real deterrent.
In the context of the times, the ban was a necessary intervention. Necessary, albeit not necessarily sufficient. At the time, it was evident to policymakers that other policy measures had to accompany it. Supporters and clubs were linked in a way that demanded a cultural shift. Closed door participation (or the selective exclusion of some fans) at that time would not have facilitated the progress that has been made in taking collective ownership of the game. It's important to acknowledge the context of the times and the years of accumulated conduct that coalesced in that decision. To a justiable degree, perception influenced the decision to ban ... and such perception properly pre-dated Heysel.
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Bakes, as usual your expertise on absolutely every single topic that has ever been written, and your ability to take one word from several paragraphs and ignore the entire context, defeats me. Which is ok, because I'm not in any contest that has to be won at all costs.
I gave very personal opinion on certain situations because I was invited into the conversation. I steered very clear of your statements because I cannot be arsed any more to deal with you. You make this site tedious with your arguments. This is not a law court and most people don't give a shit if a poster makes a mistake regarding nuances or minor points of law. It has been educational in parts when you have enlightened people through your expertise, but you go into overkill which just bores people.
Sadly, for me, hooliganism was something I grew up with and the phrase was used as an all encompassing byword for crowd behavior. I have never sided with the authorities concerning Hillsborough, but I do have an understanding of how these events happened, having lived through similar situations that could have been even worse.
Call it what you want, but the herd mentality that took over that day, though poorly managed, was the fault of the Liverpool fans. You really believe that those thousands couldn't line up in an orderly manner? You think they couldn't listen to the mounted police who were trying to push them back? Every single one of those fans was moving relentlessly forward even though even outside, people were starting to get crushed.
If I had been there, I would have done the same. Nobody wanted to miss the game, the police were the enemy and people would be angry at them and still push forward. Nobody thinks about whats happening to people up ahead. Just like at Heysel, I'm certain that none of those Liverpool "hooligans" realised that people were being crushed due to their actions.
It may not have been hooliganism, but it doesn't happen anymore. People do line up to enter football stadiums. There is far less shoving and impatience. Much of this is due to the superb organisation by the authorities, but also, fans have learned lessons from that sad day.
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Your argument is confused. My initial point was that the European ban helped solve the Hooliganism problem in England, along with the new policing tactics. Your response was that the existence of hooliganism in Italy and Russia's deference to English police tactics somehow disproved that - which was a strawman of my argument at best and utterly unrelated at worst (you did one or both of; extrapolated my argument to apply to Europe and/or asserted that since it didn't wipe out hooliganism totally that it was a failure).
Your initial comment lacked any of mention of policing efforts, concentrating focus on the ban itselt. Other than pointing that out, I am no longer going to waste any time engaging you in your sophism and lack of candor..
Compared to the disgracefully lenient precedents set by FIFA and the Spanish FA, I agree. When trying to set a new precedent that actually deters racism? Easy to argue that - Banning English teams from participating in Europe was an appropriate response to the thuggery of football hooliganism - why isn't racism deemed anywhere near as unacceptable?
You point out your own lack of reding comprehension - my initial point clearly stipulates it was an appropriate response, rather than a solution. You frequently engage in these debates with intellectual dishonesty, then scurry away when proven wrong.
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How then can a club be responsible for the actions of the customers (fans).
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How then can a club be responsible for the actions of the customers (fans).
Wha yuh mean?
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How then can a club be responsible for the actions of the customers (fans).
Nearly all top leagues in the world hold clubs responsible for the behaviour of their fans.. Had they not been so quick to identify the fan the fine would have been worse.
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How then can a club be responsible for the actions of the customers (fans).
Wha yuh mean?
According to Bakes, you cannot expect UEFA/La Liga to be any more severe in the mere pittance they handed down. If you cannot control your direct employees, then how can it be expected to control the masses in the stands?
Inter (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/10021681/Uefa-fines-Inter-Milan-over-fans-conduct-during-4-1-Europa-League-win-over-Tottenham-Hostpur.html)
CSKA (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/7555/9172388/CSKA-Moscow-handed-stadium-ban-by-UEFA-over-racist-conduct-by-fans)
Germany (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/uefa-germany-improper-fan-conduct-euro-2012_n_1608848.html)
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You point out your own lack of reding comprehension - my initial point clearly stipulates it was an appropriate response, rather than a solution. You frequently engage in these debates with intellectual dishonesty, then scurry away when proven wrong.
Therefore your "initial point" mentioned nothing about policing tactics, and focused entirely on the ban itself. Thanks.
Now...
(http://image8.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/2470937/views/1,width=235,height=235,appearanceId=1/How-About-A-Nice-Cup-Of-Shut-The-f**k-Up.jpg)
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Bakes, as usual your expertise on absolutely every single topic that has ever been written, and your ability to take one word from several paragraphs and ignore the entire context, defeats me. Which is ok, because I'm not in any contest that has to be won at all costs.
I gave very personal opinion on certain situations because I was invited into the conversation. I steered very clear of your statements because I cannot be arsed any more to deal with you. You make this site tedious with your arguments. This is not a law court and most people don't give a shit if a poster makes a mistake regarding nuances or minor points of law. It has been educational in parts when you have enlightened people through your expertise, but you go into overkill which just bores people.
Sadly, for me, hooliganism was something I grew up with and the phrase was used as an all encompassing byword for crowd behavior. I have never sided with the authorities concerning Hillsborough, but I do have an understanding of how these events happened, having lived through similar situations that could have been even worse.
Call it what you want, but the herd mentality that took over that day, though poorly managed, was the fault of the Liverpool fans. You really believe that those thousands couldn't line up in an orderly manner? You think they couldn't listen to the mounted police who were trying to push them back? Every single one of those fans was moving relentlessly forward even though even outside, people were starting to get crushed.
If I had been there, I would have done the same. Nobody wanted to miss the game, the police were the enemy and people would be angry at them and still push forward. Nobody thinks about whats happening to people up ahead. Just like at Heysel, I'm certain that none of those Liverpool "hooligans" realised that people were being crushed due to their actions.
It may not have been hooliganism, but it doesn't happen anymore. People do line up to enter football stadiums. There is far less shoving and impatience. Much of this is due to the superb organisation by the authorities, but also, fans have learned lessons from that sad day.
I honestly couldn't give a shit what you think about my posts, arguments, expertise... you "cannot be arsed anymore" to deal with me but yet you write this long, whining ("whinging", if it makes you feel any better) jeremiad focusing on me, rather than acknowledging the inaccuracies of your statements. This isn't a court of law, but where there is an opportunity to correct an obviously inaccurate statement about something which I care about, then I will do so, whether you like it or not. I provided quotes, bolded relevant parts, and supplied links for your benefit, you don't have to take my word for anything. If you still then insist on wallowing in your own ignorance and blaming the Liverpool fans for sharing in the blame for the deaths or for poor "crowd behavior" then continue in your ignorance. It is bliss, as they say, after all.
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According to Bakes, you cannot expect UEFA/La Liga to be any more severe in the mere pittance they handed down. If you cannot control your direct employees, then how can it be expected to control the masses in the stands?
Inter (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/10021681/Uefa-fines-Inter-Milan-over-fans-conduct-during-4-1-Europa-League-win-over-Tottenham-Hostpur.html)
CSKA (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/7555/9172388/CSKA-Moscow-handed-stadium-ban-by-UEFA-over-racist-conduct-by-fans)
Germany (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/uefa-germany-improper-fan-conduct-euro-2012_n_1608848.html)
Since you disagree with my statements... you tell us then. How could Villareal have controlled its employee in this instance? How could they have prevented this?
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From today:
AC Milan: Bananas thrown at players by Atalanta fans (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27363859)
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You point out your own lack of reding comprehension - my initial point clearly stipulates it was an appropriate response, rather than a solution. You frequently engage in these debates with intellectual dishonesty, then scurry away when proven wrong.
Therefore your "initial point" mentioned nothing about policing tactics, and focused entirely on the ban itself. Thanks.
Now...
(http://image8.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/2470937/views/1,width=235,height=235,appearanceId=1/How-About-A-Nice-Cup-Of-Shut-The-f**k-Up.jpg)
Bakes you're just flat-out trolling now - grow up
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Bakes you're just flat-out trolling now - grow up
You accused me of lacking reading comprehension when I point out to you that you never spoke about effective policing to address hooliganism. I point out to you that all you focused on was the ban itself. Rather than admit when you're wrong, you engage in further ad hominems and sophism about me trolling. I think Toppa and Asylumseeker have you rightly pegged as the idiot you are. Moving on.
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Bakes, as usual your expertise on absolutely every single topic that has ever been written, and your ability to take one word from several paragraphs and ignore the entire context, defeats me. Which is ok, because I'm not in any contest that has to be won at all costs.
I gave very personal opinion on certain situations because I was invited into the conversation. I steered very clear of your statements because I cannot be arsed any more to deal with you. You make this site tedious with your arguments. This is not a law court and most people don't give a shit if a poster makes a mistake regarding nuances or minor points of law. It has been educational in parts when you have enlightened people through your expertise, but you go into overkill which just bores people.
Sadly, for me, hooliganism was something I grew up with and the phrase was used as an all encompassing byword for crowd behavior. I have never sided with the authorities concerning Hillsborough, but I do have an understanding of how these events happened, having lived through similar situations that could have been even worse.
Call it what you want, but the herd mentality that took over that day, though poorly managed, was the fault of the Liverpool fans. You really believe that those thousands couldn't line up in an orderly manner? You think they couldn't listen to the mounted police who were trying to push them back? Every single one of those fans was moving relentlessly forward even though even outside, people were starting to get crushed.
If I had been there, I would have done the same. Nobody wanted to miss the game, the police were the enemy and people would be angry at them and still push forward. Nobody thinks about whats happening to people up ahead. Just like at Heysel, I'm certain that none of those Liverpool "hooligans" realised that people were being crushed due to their actions.
It may not have been hooliganism, but it doesn't happen anymore. People do line up to enter football stadiums. There is far less shoving and impatience. Much of this is due to the superb organisation by the authorities, but also, fans have learned lessons from that sad day.
I honestly couldn't give a shit what you think about my posts, arguments, expertise... you "cannot be arsed anymore" to deal with me but yet you write this long, whining ("whinging", if it makes you feel any better) jeremiad focusing on me, rather than acknowledging the inaccuracies of your statements. This isn't a court of law, but where there is an opportunity to correct an obviously inaccurate statement about something which I care about, then I will do so, whether you like it or not. I provided quotes, bolded relevant parts, and supplied links for your benefit, you don't have to take my word for anything. If you still then insist on wallowing in your own ignorance and blaming the Liverpool fans for sharing in the blame for the deaths or for poor "crowd behavior" then continue in your ignorance. It is bliss, as they say, after all.
You care? Really? You really believe that every Liverpool fan that day was the perfect football supporter? None of the hundreds of trouble makers (I dare not use the word hooligan) who attend every Liverpool game (just like those "fans" who attend every clubs games) didn't go to Hillsborough? I know it's cool and trendy to totally blame the authorities (who were hugely, if not criminally negligent) but don't preach this hogwash that every single Liverpool fan that day did nothing wrong. I am not saying that Liverpool fans in some way helped cause this tragedy, and there is ample independent eye witness evidence that confirms that this disaster was not caused by crowd violence. However, the tension caused by the pushing, and the shouting would have had an effect on the police who dealt with similar situations every week which did end in violence.
That is my opinion. One that comes from being with these very people, in that timeframe, in very similar circumstances. If you really are interested in how this disaster came about, why not ask about it rather than automatically assuming that you know best? Unless you've had darts thrown at you by Man U fans or metal Kung Fu stars by Wolves fans, watched as thousands of Arsenal or Chelsea fans rush towards you with knives and bottles, how can you understand the panic, anger and tribalism that erupts? No matter how well people describe these events, unless you are there or been in such similar situations, you really can't imagine what it's like.
Meanwhile, you say you couldn't give a shit what I think yet you write this whining ("whinging", if it makes you feel any better) jeremiad focusing on me, rather than taking note of the content.
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According to Bakes, you cannot expect UEFA/La Liga to be any more severe in the mere pittance they handed down. If you cannot control your direct employees, then how can it be expected to control the masses in the stands?
Inter (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/10021681/Uefa-fines-Inter-Milan-over-fans-conduct-during-4-1-Europa-League-win-over-Tottenham-Hostpur.html)
CSKA (http://www.teamtalk.com/news/7555/9172388/CSKA-Moscow-handed-stadium-ban-by-UEFA-over-racist-conduct-by-fans)
Germany (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/19/uefa-germany-improper-fan-conduct-euro-2012_n_1608848.html)
Since you disagree with my statements... you tell us then. How could Villareal have controlled its employee in this instance? How could they have prevented this?
You should be the one telling us. I asked a question. That lil hook thing on the end means the words before is a question. Again, you said the club cannot control the employees, understood. My question is, then how does UEFA/LA Liga then expect the Club to control someone ho they sell a ticket to. Thus, if [a] fan/s commit acts of racism then the punishment should be dismissal and being banned from the stands. Just as the coach getting fired and the pittance charged is enough.
How does this works? Maybe I am missing something? On one hand you responsible but on the other not really?
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You care? Really? You really believe that every Liverpool fan that day was the perfect football supporter? None of the hundreds of trouble makers (I dare not use the word hooligan) who attend every Liverpool game (just like those "fans" who attend every clubs games) didn't go to Hillsborough? I know it's cool and trendy to totally blame the authorities (who were hugely, if not criminally negligent) but don't preach this hogwash that every single Liverpool fan that day did nothing wrong. I am not saying that Liverpool fans in some way helped cause this tragedy, and there is ample independent eye witness evidence that confirms that this disaster was not caused by crowd violence. However, the tension caused by the pushing, and the shouting would have had an effect on the police who dealt with similar situations every week which did end in violence.
That is my opinion. One that comes from being with these very people, in that timeframe, in very similar circumstances. If you really are interested in how this disaster came about, why not ask about it rather than automatically assuming that you know best? Unless you've had darts thrown at you by Man U fans or metal Kung Fu stars by Wolves fans, watched as thousands of Arsenal or Chelsea fans rush towards you with knives and bottles, how can you understand the panic, anger and tribalism that erupts? No matter how well people describe these events, unless you are there or been in such similar situations, you really can't imagine what it's like.
Meanwhile, you say you couldn't give a shit what I think yet you write this whining ("whinging", if it makes you feel any better) jeremiad focusing on me, rather than taking note of the content.
You obviously don't know what a jeremiad is... and you obviously can't tell an ad hominem post from one that addresses the substance of the post. I bet you think that post was about you.. to paraphrase Carly Simon. Second, I don't have to ask you how Hillsborough came about... your input is welcomed, but don't feel that I have to take it as dispositive, not when there have been three inquiries getting to the heart of the tragedy. I don't know best, but I trust that the independent panel does know best, and a great deal more than you.
You should be the one telling us. I asked a question. That lil hook thing on the end means the words before is a question. Again, you said the club cannot control the employees, understood. My question is, then how does UEFA/LA Liga then expect the Club to control someone ho they sell a ticket to. Thus, if [a] fan/s commit acts of racism then the punishment should be dismissal and being banned from the stands. Just as the coach getting fired and the pittance charged is enough.
How does this works? Maybe I am missing something? On one hand you responsible but on the other not really?
My guess is that UEFA can only be fair in circumstances where there is repeated issues with fans, without the club adequately addressing it. UEFA should give the club an opportunity to address the situation.
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You obviously don't know what a jeremiad is.
Obviously, neither do you! I saw no prophesies of doom or the breakdown of society in any of my posts. Actually, the opposite. Those years between 85 - 90 were a catalyst for positive (and much needed) change.
As for ad hominems, you originally addressed that at Tiresais, so I ignored it. However, it's interesting to note that my two lines concerning you were answered with three times as many lines about me. More a case of ad nauseam than ad hominems!
As for Toppa and Asylumseeker pegging me as an idiot, well that's their prerogative. I'm sure that they're not the only ones! Just wondering why you needed to share that information and what was the purpose of enlightening me?
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Bakes you're just flat-out trolling now - grow up
You accused me of lacking reading comprehension when I point out to you that you never spoke about effective policing to address hooliganism. I point out to you that all you focused on was the ban itself. Rather than admit when you're wrong, you engage in further ad hominems and sophism about me trolling. I think Toppa and Asylumseeker have you rightly pegged as the idiot you are. Moving on.
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As for Toppa and Asylumseeker pegging me as an idiot, well that's their prerogative. I'm sure that they're not the only ones! Just wondering why you needed to share that information and what was the purpose of enlightening me?
Nah, nah, nah, FS ... that's a reference to a different exchange. Case of mistaken identity.
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That is my opinion. One that comes from being with these very people, in that timeframe, in very similar circumstances. If you really are interested in how this disaster came about, why not ask about it rather than automatically assuming that you know best? Unless you've had darts thrown at you by Man U fans or metal Kung Fu stars by Wolves fans, watched as thousands of Arsenal or Chelsea fans rush towards you with knives and bottles, how can you understand the panic, anger and tribalism that erupts? No matter how well people describe these events, unless you are there or been in such similar situations, you really can't imagine what it's like.
...
In part I asked you to chime in precisely because of the above ... and, I'm glad you did. :beermug:
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Bakes you're just flat-out trolling now - grow up
You accused me of lacking reading comprehension when I point out to you that you never spoke about effective policing to address hooliganism. I point out to you that all you focused on was the ban itself. Rather than admit when you're wrong, you engage in further ad hominems and sophism about me trolling. I think Toppa and Asylumseeker have you rightly pegged as the idiot you are. Moving on.
You're so self-absorbed you can't read your own damn posts now - your strawman was to take my point, applying to England specifically, and try to attack it as if I was talking about the whole of Europe, which it was not. Again you're dishonestly pulling my post out of context - that post wasn't about effective policing about hooliganism, it was about appropriate punishment for hooliganism.
Your dishonesty is embarrassing and plain for all to see.
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Bakes you're just flat-out trolling now - grow up
You accused me of lacking reading comprehension when I point out to you that you never spoke about effective policing to address hooliganism. I point out to you that all you focused on was the ban itself. Rather than admit when you're wrong, you engage in further ad hominems and sophism about me trolling. I think Toppa and Asylumseeker have you rightly pegged as the idiot you are. Moving on.
...
As for Toppa and Asylumseeker pegging me as an idiot, well that's their prerogative. I'm sure that they're not the only ones! Just wondering why you needed to share that information and what was the purpose of enlightening me?
Nah, nah, nah, FS ... that's a reference to a different exchange. Case of mistaken identity.
...
That is my opinion. One that comes from being with these very people, in that timeframe, in very similar circumstances. If you really are interested in how this disaster came about, why not ask about it rather than automatically assuming that you know best? Unless you've had darts thrown at you by Man U fans or metal Kung Fu stars by Wolves fans, watched as thousands of Arsenal or Chelsea fans rush towards you with knives and bottles, how can you understand the panic, anger and tribalism that erupts? No matter how well people describe these events, unless you are there or been in such similar situations, you really can't imagine what it's like.
...
In part I asked you to chime in precisely because of the above ... and, I'm glad you did. :beermug:
Yeah, I realise that now! But I couldn't blame you if you did lol
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You obviously don't know what a jeremiad is.
Obviously, neither do you! I saw no prophesies of doom or the breakdown of society in any of my posts. Actually, the opposite. Those years between 85 - 90 were a catalyst for positive (and much needed) change.
As for ad hominems, you originally addressed that at Tiresais, so I ignored it. However, it's interesting to note that my two lines concerning you were answered with three times as many lines about me. More a case of ad nauseam than ad hominems!
As for Toppa and Asylumseeker pegging me as an idiot, well that's their prerogative. I'm sure that they're not the only ones! Just wondering why you needed to share that information and what was the purpose of enlightening me?
We'll address both the issue of the jeremiad and ad hominems together:
Jeremiad: a prolonged lamentation or complaint (Merriam-Webster http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jeremiad)
So... how does this apply? You asserted that Liverpool fans on the day were part to blame for the deaths, never mind that an independent investigation states otherwise. I offered proof in the form of painstaking detail excerpted from the official report. You ignored that to instead write this long-ass protest complaing about me. See how that works?
Now for the ad hominem part:
Again, I provided in painstaking detail the fact that Liverpool supporters were not to blame for the deaths, and you opened with two paragraphs bitching and complaining about me, rather than what I said... which in no way attacked or insulted you.
Bakes, as usual your expertise on absolutely every single topic that has ever been written, and your ability to take one word from several paragraphs and ignore the entire context, defeats me. Which is ok, because I'm not in any contest that has to be won at all costs.
I gave very personal opinion on certain situations because I was invited into the conversation. I steered very clear of your statements because I cannot be arsed any more to deal with you. You make this site tedious with your arguments. This is not a law court and most people don't give a shit if a poster makes a mistake regarding nuances or minor points of law. It has been educational in parts when you have enlightened people through your expertise, but you go into overkill which just bores people.
Sadly, for me, hooliganism was something I grew up with and the phrase was used as an all encompassing byword for crowd behavior. I have never sided with the authorities concerning Hillsborough, but I do have an understanding of how these events happened, having lived through similar situations that could have been even worse.
Call it what you want, but the herd mentality that took over that day, though poorly managed, was the fault of the Liverpool fans. You really believe that those thousands couldn't line up in an orderly manner? You think they couldn't listen to the mounted police who were trying to push them back? Every single one of those fans was moving relentlessly forward even though even outside, people were starting to get crushed.
If I had been there, I would have done the same. Nobody wanted to miss the game, the police were the enemy and people would be angry at them and still push forward. Nobody thinks about whats happening to people up ahead. Just like at Heysel, I'm certain that none of those Liverpool "hooligans" realised that people were being crushed due to their actions.
It may not have been hooliganism, but it doesn't happen anymore. People do line up to enter football stadiums. There is far less shoving and impatience. Much of this is due to the superb organisation by the authorities, but also, fans have learned lessons from that sad day.
Now... as to the rest of what you wrote, I won't dismiss it because you have a personal perspective that none of us here share. However... you seem to think that because you alone HERE has that perspective, that means that you are right... or "more right" than me. Which is why you took offense... how dare this [ ] act like he knows better than me when I lived through it. The good thing is that I'm not offering a personal subjective opinion, I'm offering the objective findings of an official investigation... meaning numerous witness statements were taken, including from the regular constables who were working the crowd. None of them report unruly fans, yet you insist that the fans MUST have played a part, because USUALLY when you went into crowds like that (including LFC crowds) that's how they behaved. All that may be true, but on THIS day there is no evidence that the fans were unruly, etc. The fans were anxious to get into the pens to see the game, there was overcrowding and the regular jostling. Unfortunately the fans up front had nowhere else to go. This my friend is not hooliganism... no matter how much you think the word applies.
ESPN did a very good 2-hour long documentary on the Hillsborough tragedy (http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/172435/Hillsborough__30_for_30_Soccer_Stories__ESPN_Films/) which is based in large part on the findings of the independent panel, and which forms the basis of my position that it's wrong to blame the fans in any way. And yes, I do care about this. Hillsborough isn't something new to me, I've been following this for a very long time, and wrote a case study about it for an online publication several years ago. So yes, chuckle if you will.. but this is very much something I care about. Your problem is that you let our past disagreements cloud your perspective to the point that you take every subsequent disagreement as a personal attack on you and you let your emotions get the better of you. In addition to the ad hominems and excessive "lamentations", for instance, you claim I said I didn't give a shit about what you write... and mistook my comments to Tireasis as an attack on you. The latter mistake seems to have been cleared up, but as to the former, I said "I honestly couldn't give a shit what you think about my posts, arguments, expertise." Meaning however you want to construe what I say is up to you... too know-it-all, too condescending, too preachy. You work that out. If you find it lacking a factual basis then feel free to let me know.
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Lets deal with facts, Bakes.
This debate between you and i stemmed from this sentence: While some bravely risked their lives to save others, many more exhibited the mindless tribal outrage which is football hooliganism. (Which also occurred at Hillsborough)
That sentence bears no relevance to your charge You asserted that Liverpool fans on the day were part to blame for the deaths, It also is very offensive to even suggest that I "asserted" such.
Now, my interpretation of hooliganism may differ from yours, but since you like Merriam-Webster so much, their definition is : rowdy, violent, or destructive behavior
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hooliganism
You continue condescendingly stating facts, findings, statements blah blah blah. I understand your interest, but I read those initial words when they were initially printed. I read the counter claims when they were originally made. I watched the footage when it was originally shown and I spoke to people who were actually there (though none from Leppings Lane end).
I don't think I ever stated that I must be right because I was closer to the event. However, I do believe in my own opinion, otherwise, why would I offer it?
Now, you may counter my opinion if you wish, but bleating out paragraphs to counter my opinion is really not necessary.
You seem to think that taking quotes from an official inquiry makes any other opposing views as completely wrong. Yet, there is video evidence of rowdy, destructive and unruly behavior. Actions defined by Merriam-Webster as "hooliganism". You can even hear Forest and Liverpool fans chanting until they realised this was not hooliganism, but a major disaster. Many Forest fans were cheering because they thought that other Forest fans had got into the Liverpool section and the Scousers were running away. (This was a major aim of football hooligans and this victory was often more important than the games result) I was told second or third hand that Liverpool fans at the front of Leppings Lane who had arrived early, initially thought that Forest fans had smashed through the police lines.
For an everyday Brit in the 1980's, a 6 year old kid throwing pebbles at a streetlamp would be called a hooligan. Peaceful protest marchers outside South Africa House in Trafalgar Square were called hooligans (and much worse), groups of young people running along Brighton pier were called hooligans. Even the Flying Squad were called hooligans.
And as much as I truly believe that the 95 deaths were due to the awful management of the venue, the situation and the Police having little regard for the fans, there were hooligans at that game and there was hooliganism.
Maybe my posts are jeremiad (in your opinion), but maybe you should listen closer to such "laments" while also studying the facts. Put some flesh on the bones, as it were.
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Lets deal with facts, Bakes.
This debate between you and i stemmed from this sentence: While some bravely risked their lives to save others, many more exhibited the mindless tribal outrage which is football hooliganism. (Which also occurred at Hillsborough)
That sentence bears no relevance to your charge You asserted that Liverpool fans on the day were part to blame for the deaths, It also is very offensive to even suggest that I "asserted" such.
You are correct, that is where the disagreement started. Whatever the normal usage of "hooligan" or "hooligan behavior" out on the streets... in the context of FOOTBALL, "hooliganism" takes on a particular meaning. But let's start by taking a look at the rest of your comments on "hooliganism":
"Unless you have actually been in a situation with 10's of thousands of fans, it would seem hard to understand how decent supporters can react in that manner. I seem to recall Juventus fans throwing flares into the Liverpool fans. No doubt, before that, there was plenty of verbal abuse from both sides and possibly, pelting of bottles etc. I'm not blaming Juventus fans for the tragedy, but there is usually a spark that ignites an explosion. When it "kicks off" panic sets in, which often leads to pushing and fear of being crushed."
The overall impression you paint (and tie to Hillsborough) is that the fans were unruly and out of control. This is bolstered by the definition you provided from Merriam-Webster.
Now, my interpretation of hooliganism may differ from yours, but since you like Merriam-Webster so much, their definition is : rowdy, violent, or destructive behavior
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hooliganism
You continue condescendingly stating facts, findings, statements blah blah blah. I understand your interest, but I read those initial words when they were initially printed. I read the counter claims when they were originally made. I watched the footage when it was originally shown and I spoke to people who were actually there (though none from Leppings Lane end).
You never "asserted" that the fans contributed to the deaths at Hillborough, but the implication was clear... why even bring it up? Hillsborough is infamous because of the death of the fans. You have implicitly tied those deaths to fan behavior. It may not have been your intent, but this is precisely what the cover up was all about, and why people react to the assertion/implication as they do. There was nothing "violent or destructive" about the fan behavior on that day. You say you read the initial accounts... dude, the initial accounts were wrong! I don't know what better way to make it clear to you. The police union was part of a conspiracy spreading lies to the press within hours of the tragedy. 90% of the newspaper articles you read came from a South Yorkshire press service that was linked to the police union. They distorted the story, and other newspapers across England picked up the false stories.
I don't think I ever stated that I must be right because I was closer to the event. However, I do believe in my own opinion, otherwise, why would I offer it?
Now, you may counter my opinion if you wish, but bleating out paragraphs to counter my opinion is really not necessary.
You seem to think that taking quotes from an official inquiry makes any other opposing views as completely wrong. Yet, there is video evidence of rowdy, destructive and unruly behavior. Actions defined by Merriam-Webster as "hooliganism". You can even hear Forest and Liverpool fans chanting until they realised this was not hooliganism, but a major disaster.
You didn't state that your version has to be right, but when I offered a better account (and yes, I will use better, for reasons I'll explain shortly), you took offense to it by accusing me of thinking that I "know best"... why would you make that statement, if 1) you weren't offended by me countering your "opinion", and 2) if you didn't think your version of what happened was better?
And YES, taking quotes from an official inquiry is infinitely better than any personal subjective opinion you can offer second-hand, it's even better than any one personal opinion offered by a primary source. This is because hundreds of witnesses were interviewed. There is literally reams of reports from survivors and police officers that were never included in the Taylor Report. The police brass suppressed that info. These eyewitness statements were cross-referenced against each other. One person might think that the situation unfolded one way, but others might see it differently. If hundreds of people, including police officers in the crowd, are saying there was no "rowdy, violent, destructive" fan behavior... then why should I, or anyone accept a second-hand version.
You say you saw footage... I bet the footage you saw was from the BBC broadcast. That footage shows mayhem that ensued as people were fighting for their lives to get out of the pens... that's not footage of people pushing because they're unruly. Even the poor cops on the field were pulling people over the fence once they realized what was going on. Many of those brave officers did their best to help... when we talk about a cover up it's not them who engaged in the cover up. They made reports, and their reports were CHANGED by higher ups to cover their own asses.
I wasn't there so the report is the next best thing... especially since the report looked at not the BBC footage... but CCTV footage shot from the very box Duckenfield was standing in. This footage is shown in the Hillborough documentary I linked earlier. Watch, if you will, the segment of the video from 14:30 - 21:00 thereabouts, it shows actual CCTV footage among others. It continues throughout the documentary, but I'm trying to narrow the focus for you. If you don't care then don't bother, it's up to you.
Now I understand you don't have time to go thru the report or to look at the link, but don't come talking about me "bleating out paragraphs", those paragraphs represent facts... not opinion. Now if you still want to hold fast to your opinion that fan behavior was an issue on the day, never mind the facts contradicting you then fine. But that intransigence won't shield you from criticism, and you can't then whine and complain about me and how my posts sound to you, when all I'm doing is offering facts.
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Italy for Real Italians.
Balotelli racially abused during training (http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1828652/mario-balotelli-racially-abused-italy-training?cc=5901)
Mario Balotelli was subjected to racial insults while training for Italy at the Italian Football Association's (FIGC) training centre in Coverciano, near Florence, on Wednesday.
The AC Milan forward did not respond or react to the insulting chants from one fan, who was identified and led away from the training centre. Most of the fans watching the 30-man Italy squad training showed their support for the 23-year-old, the FIGC reports on its website.
A statement from the FIGC read: "Some boys surrounding the field made some offensive chants towards Mario Balotelli and one of them pronounced a racial insult."
Although he was "distressed by the incident," Balotelli continued to train with his colleagues. According to La Gazzetta dello Sport, Balotelli said to his teammates: "It's incredible, these things happen only in Rome and Florence."
The president of the FIGC, Giancarlo Abete, condemned their actions. "It is absolutely unacceptable behaviour by individuals who should not exist, but sadly we have to accept they are there. The important thing is that they are a minority," he said at a meeting in Milan.
It is not the first time Balotelli has been victim of racially-motivated insults from Italian fans with opposition fans often targeting him in a bid to unsettle him and provoke a reaction.
Inter Milan were fined last year when their fans insulted their former player during a match in which Balotelli was not even playing.
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I was able to catch some of this on HBO's Real Sports last night but Bryant Gumbel did a segment on racism in soccer, you can view a little bit on the link below. I'm sure in a week or so you might be able to find the entire video on youtube.
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/hbo-real-sports-racism-european-050000500.html
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Play like allyuh doh know today is de Champions League final nah!
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Yuh done know ...
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Costa trained well yesterday for the hour long session. Stayed on for the full session. Turan was involved almost to the end.
AM sent Costa to Belgrade to seek treatment from Marijana Kovacevic, who it is said uses fluid from horse placenta to repair damaged cells.
Kovacevic has treated Robin van Persie and Frank Lampard previously.
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So Costa start and then you sub him out after 9 minutes?
A waste of a sub.
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It's a decision subject to scrutiny.
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Koke chopping wood.
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Yes!!!
Game on now!
I told a fella int he pub last week. I thnik if Atletico win the league, then they win the Champions League too. If they lose, they lose both.
They are proving me right at this moment
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So useful to have a goal-scoring and goal-hungry defender.
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Casillas boy...*sigh*
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David Villa is having some fun out there.
They talking about how Simeone prefers aggression over posession, as if Atletico don't hold the ball.
The knock is frustrating Real, and the kick downs just makes it better.
This is similar to the Barca philosophy under pep - they work hard to get the ball back when they lose it and try not to leave anyone isolated vs a danger player. But they operating with more aggression overall.
Barca, of course, never doubted that they would dominate a game, so they never forced the issue.
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Why those commentators doh just shut up?
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Real Madrid are in shambles. :frustrated:
Di Maria is the only one playing well. The "defence" (*&^%&^& - Khadeira - (*&*&^*&!!
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CR7 reporting fuh wuk ...
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Simeone might spur another resignation.
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Has anyone seen Cronaldo lately, he seems to be missing for a large part of the game and his family are worried :p
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Bale is just not on target tonight.
When he was with Spurs, at least 2 of those chances would be goals.
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Bale choked again :(
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... he seems to be over-thinking and trying to make up for prior mistakes. Coulda released to Benzema ... or hit with his right ::)
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... he seems to be over-thinking and trying to make up for prior mistakes. Coulda released to Benzema ... or hit with his right ::)
:rotfl:
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David Villa just seems to be in his own dimension time-wise. He collects the ball and time slows down, and then he just turns away and makes a pass.
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David Villa just seems to be in his own dimension time-wise. He collects the ball and time slows down, and then he just turns away and makes a pass.
Not up to game speed ... he hasn't been getting a tremendous amount of time on the pitch this season.
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David Villa just seems to be in his own dimension time-wise. He collects the ball and time slows down, and then he just turns away and makes a pass.
Not up to game speed ... he hasn't been getting a tremendous amount of time on the pitch this season.
I meant that as a good thing. With the ball, he just seems to have more time than everybody else.
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Hard luck dey Atletico
Bale to win it now...
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De game eh done till de whistle blow.........
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David Villa just seems to be in his own dimension time-wise. He collects the ball and time slows down, and then he just turns away and makes a pass.
Not up to game speed ... he hasn't been getting a tremendous amount of time on the pitch this season.
I meant that as a good thing. With the ball, he just seems to have more time than everybody else.
Frankly, I wish Simeone had played him a tad more. There were games that Costa stayed on way past the dregs. Same feeling about Diego (the Brazilian). Once Del Bosque announces, if he stays in the squad, the WC might be where he hits his sweet spot.
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This game had tuh have drama. :pissedoff: :)
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Real could sub in Ronaldo for the extra time. :devil:
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Real could sub in Ronaldo for the extra time. :devil:
:rotfl: :rotfl:
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Momentum is tilting. AM must display character right now.
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Yes!!!
Game on now!
I told a fella int he pub last week. I thnik if Atletico win the league, then they win the Champions League too. If they lose, they lose both.
They are proving me right at this moment
:praying: ... and that Bitter is Nostradamus, Amen.
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oh shit
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Yes!!!
Game on now!
I told a fella int he pub last week. I thnik if Atletico win the league, then they win the Champions League too. If they lose, they lose both.
They are proving me right at this moment
:praying: ... and that Bitter is Nostradamus, Amen.
You ent see I change my prediction...
Hard luck dey Atletico
Bale to win it now...
:peace:
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I miss de damn goal. Feed stuck. Iz only because of radio commentary I knew wha happen.
Vamos, Atleti!
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La Decima! :beermug: :beermug: :beermug:
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2 goals ah miss ...
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DIVE! Penalty!
4-1
This turned ugly quickly...
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Well i sure didnt see dat coming. WOW!!
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Now Simeone on the pitch.
Just take yuh licks nah man.
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I like how CR7 celebrating like he do anything in this match.
Marcelo was an inspired sub. Di Maria was MoM for me.
I think because of the Diego Costa thing, Atletico didn't have the sub they needed at the end.
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Congrats to RM!!!
I eh ketch much of anything in the 2nd extra time period. All ah hearing on de radio is gol, gol, penal ... gol. ;D
Should make for interesting viewing.
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Ah shame to even celebrate cos ah had write off Madrid.
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I like how CR7 celebrating like he do anything in this match.
Marcelo was an inspired sub. Di Maria was MoM for me.
I think because of the Diego Costa thing, Atletico didn't have the sub they needed at the end.
Fully agree regarding the bold.
Costa? ... yeah, that will surely be mooted, but it might equally have been as unwise to inject him late as starting him seems to have been. I would have preferred a start without Costa.
AM has shown to be a squad with balance, and perhaps some depth, but the absence of Arda Turan can't be overlooked. At the end of the day, Sergio Ramos opened the door to create this result ... which I sensed was more likely than not given Madrid's assets. Madrid didn't start balling till inspired. Fitting final ... distorted scoreline.
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Very, very happy for Bale and Modric.
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Ah shame to even celebrate cos ah had write off Madrid.
You ent have no faith. Dat equalizer was coming
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Best final I see in a while. Great comeback although I wanted Atletico to take it.
Those injuries hurt Atletico too much.
Ramos with the hero goal, that was a beauty.
And yeah Di Maria is a special player. Maximum effort from that man. Bale lucky to get another good chance after he fluff 3.
Cristiana do nothing whole game, wasting free kicks and being marked out of the game, then want to rip off shirt and flex steups.
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Yeah, C. Ronaldo geh pound on TV for that display. I would like to see the foul preceding the penalty call again because de lil piece I saw in slo-mo seemed suspect. Ah want to see if he crafted that to end on a high note of glory. Some idiots have described him as scoring the "winning" goal. ::)
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/06/19/race-and-racism-in-honduran-soccer-and-society/
BY JOSHUA NADEL
(http://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/06/2372721_full-lnd.jpg)
In 2011, a number of incidents surrounding soccer and racism grabbed international headlines (most notably the John Terry-Anton Ferdinand and Luis Suarez-Patrice Evra affairs). Outside of the limelight of most of the international press, Afro-Honduran players voiced their own charges to end racial discrimination. Osman Chvez, then a starting center back for los Catrachos (as the Honduran national team is sometimes called) and many of his teammates decided to boycott the national media as part of a campaign called journalism without discrimination. Racist comments on newspaper webpages appeared regularly, which disparaged him and many others on the team. He could understand racism in Poland, where he played professionally, as partly stemming from not seeing many people of color. But in your own country, brother, where you were born, he said, it is intolerable, you just cant fit that in your mind. In October of that year, Johnny Palacios, also at the time a national team player, accused a referee in the Honduran professional league of racially abusing him during a game.
Racism is certainly nothing new in Honduras. Honduras identifies itself as a mestizo nation of mixed indigenous and European roots and officially only about 2 percent of the population is of African descent (though the actual number may be as high as 10 percent). And the fact that roughly half the Honduran national team at the 2014 World Cup is Afro-Honduran only serves to suggest that other issues are at play, such as access to education and job opportunities. But history is at stake as well, and the team exposes the contortions that the Honduran state historically attempted to whiten the nation.
In the early 20th century, Honduran nationalist leaders adhered to ideas of mestizaje a valorizing of the mixed race nature of Latin American nations popularized by the Mexican thinker Jos Vasconcelos as a way to inspire national pride. While mestizaje uplifted the indigenous, it was still based on 19th century racist ideology, which placed Africans at the bottom of the racial hierarchy. People of African descent were seen as an impediment to national development, and their presence had to be minimized. Blacks, according to Honduran thinkers of the era, were retarded ethnic elements and represented a problem for the purity for the Honduran race.
So in the early 1900s, Honduran intellectuals and government officials began searching for ways to highlight Honduras indigenous heritage. In the 1920s, they found their new national hero: the Lenca warrior Lempira. He had waged a futile war against Spanish conquistadors in the 1530s, but he was rewarded nearly 400 years later. Though no images of Lempira existed, the Honduran government produced one, which still graces the Honduran banknotes that bear his name.
In embracing Lempira, Honduran nationalists not only created a cultural icon for a nation supposedly built on European and indigenous bases, but also explicitly rewrote the history of the nations African roots. According to the early 20th century thinkers, Honduras black population arrived as part of the influx of Anglophone Antillean workers for banana plantations in the late 1890s, and they remained confined to the north coast and the Bay Islands. They coupled the discursive reconfiguration of Honduran history with practical racism: Immigration laws in 1929 and 1934 banned blacks from entering the nation.
In fact, however, Honduras African roots are much older. People of African descent arrived in four different waves. Many Africans arrived in Honduras in the 1500s along with the first Spaniards (and may have fought against Lempira) and played a crucial role in the development of the colony and its economy.
A second African-descended population emerged in the 1600s from intermarriage between shipwrecked and runaway slaves and indigenous populations on the north coast. The Miskitos, as they are known, aligned themselves with the British and intermittently raided Spanish settlements. The third major influx of people of African descent came in 1797, with the arrival of the Black Carib runaway slaves and members of the Carib indigenous group who were deported to the Bay Islands after losing a war against England and France. These exiles moved quickly to the mainland and became known as the Garifuna, who remain the largest African-descended ethnic group in Honduras. And the fourth wave the so-called negros ingleses arrived in the late 1800s from the British Caribbean to work on banana plantations.
While history books sought to de-Africanize Honduras, census data also played a role in minimizing the presence of non-mestizos in the nation. In a linguistic sleight of hand, the Honduran state erased the possibility of claiming African roots. The 1910 census enumerated seven different races: ladino (a catchall term for people of mixed race), indigenous, mestizo, white, blacks, mulattos and yellow. But by 1916, there were only two (indigenous and ladino), and by the 1920s racial categories ceased to exist. There were no blacks in Honduras, because there were only Hondurans. Racial identification would eventually be added back into the census, but no categories that allowed for African descent ladino, mulatto or black existed until 2001.
Yet Afro-Hondurans have always been visible in the nation, and especially on the national soccer team. While the team for Honduras first international match in 1921 is unknown, in 1930, when Honduras won its first game, at least four members of the team were black. And this at a time when Brazil would not to allow Afro-Brazilians to represent the nation internationally. So too in 1982, when Honduras shocked hosts Spain with a 1-1 draw, Afro-Hondurans made up much of the team, including defenseman Alan Anthony Costly (father of current Honduran striker Carlos Costly) and goalkeeper Julio Cesar Arz.
Presence on the soccer team, however, does not equal acceptance. For most of the 20th century, the Honduran state has ignored its African-descended population or worse. In 1937, the government of Tiburcio Carias massacred 22 Garifuna leaders in the village of San Juan. Garifuna language was banned in school curriculums until the 2000s. Social indicators among black Hondurans tend to rank near the bottom; access to education and jobs lags behind much of the rest of the country. And in soccer, racism persists as well. In 2006, a politician claimed that blacks brought the level of play on the team down because they were not as intelligent as other Hondurans. In response to Chvezs 2011 anti-racism campaign, a former Honduran national team psychologist argued that blacks, by nature, have low self-esteem and therefore look for ways to call attention to themselves.
In other words, while Afro-Hondurans make up a large portion of the national team and always have their presence has not yet led to greater tolerance. Nor has it occasioned a change in Honduras dominant narrative about race. What does this mean? The persistence of racist attitudes in Honduras implies that soccer, which many claim capable of changing attitudes about race and creating a more just world, may not be the panacea that many would like it to be.
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I said it before and i'll say it again; "The Institution" never had a problem with Blacks on the field, the problems lie in Blacks in the bleachers. And is not like they have a problem with a recognized "known" Black or three, in between the crowd - but regular ole black people littering the stands equally as the whites. Well that was blasphemous to even imagine.
If the African didnt have the Midas touch and could individually turn things into gold - like "dribble de basketball a bit before yuh shoot nah" then they wouldnt even be in the teams but there is no denying the African's resilience. Their aptitude to learning, will keep them included in everything - Golf, Lawn Tennis, Bob Sledin - haha.
Different races brings different attitudes - Culture clashes poses the biggest problems I feel. for e.g.
There is one guy who does see yuh walking home from a hard, day at work, block yuh in the trace and take de lil 300 yuh now win playin wappi down de street.
There is another guy, yuh normally encounter him after yuh done playin wappi, he in de mall. He about to sell you a shirt and a pants; de monopoly that exists, sees this guy, able to charge 300% more than it should be so ah cool 600% yuh loss. You thank him when you leave he thanks you if he does!
Both were thieves but one stuck his hand in your pockets and the other made you stick your hands into your pockets!
There is one guy who know he's right and that justice is on his side so he want to cuss yuh in yuh face and possibly cuff yuh in your face too - with all right too; while another guy may rather have his attorney cuss yuh behind big wooden courthouse doors and get his justice by way of judgement.
I ain't trying to make one system look better than the next; sometimes is only a shakedown or a cuff in de face will do but for certain, there are also many things along these lines, we can adopt from our whites.
I believe these different methods of handling everyday issues - created the opportunity for the unjust among whites, to make household claims and create household names about an entire people.
If only Blacks were as good collectively as they are individually, Unions might have been born earlier and all that free labor, (Slavery), would instead have been securely safeguarded and traded at a fair price to all the first-worlders coming looking for "Sun-Agreeable" people to further their development kick.
Ubuntu should be a gift, earned, even with foreign men, after trial and proof.
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look at costa rica and honduras fans at the world cup. how much ah dem look like the players on the field?
same thing for brazil. indicative of the ranking of black people in latin america.
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look at costa rica and honduras fans at the world cup. how much ah dem look like the players on the field?
same thing for brazil. indicative of the ranking of black people in latin america.
[/quote
When we played Bahrain how much die hard fans were present? The issue for them is race for us is class.
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here is an article from Huff. Post about isssue of land rights and Afro-Brazilians.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/10/brazil-quilombos_n_5572236.html
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Fifa asks FIGC to probe Italy racism row
T&T Express
FIFA has asked the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) to investigate comments made by Carlo Tavecchio, the favourite to become its next president, in which he referred to African players as banana eaters.
Media reports concerning alleged racist comments by one of the presidential candidates for the Italian FA have alerted FIFAs Task Force against racism and discrimination and its chairman Jeffrey Webb, FIFA said in a statement yesterday.
As such, FIFA has written a letter to the Italian FA asking it to take the appropriate steps to investigate and decide on this matter and report to FIFA.
FIGC vice-president Tavecchio has received a wave of criticism for his comments, which came at the summer assembly of Italys amateur leagues (LND).
He suggested that Italy should replicate Englands stringent requirements for non-EU players.
In England, they identify the players coming in and, if they are professional, they are allowed to play, said 71-year-old Tavecchio.
Here instead we get Opti Pob, who previously ate bananas and then suddenly becomes a first team player with Lazio.
Thats how it is here. In England, you need to demonstrate what you have on your CV and your pedigree.
Tavecchio has apologised twice for his remarks but said yesterday he will not end his candidacy for the FIGC presidency.
Ive got the support of the Leagues, and Im carrying on with my campaign for the presidency of the FIGC, he told Italian news agency ANSA.
Tavecchio is hot favourite to beat former AC Milan and Italy midfielder Demetrio Albertini to Italian footballs top job in an August 11 vote.
The pair are vying for the position left vacant by Giancarlo Abete, who stepped down immediately after Italys embarrassing early exit from the World Cup in Brazil.
On Sunday, the first signs of a crack in the strong support for Tavecchio from Serie A and B clubs came from Fiorentina, who said that he should step aside.
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How de 2013-14 UEFA thread geh merge in here?
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Anyway, here's 14:16 of yuh life yuh wouldn't waste:
https://audioboom.com/boos/2535509-5lnews-racism-in-football-04-oct-14
The power of radio!
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Chelsea Racism
Victim of alleged fans' racism says he was violently pushed
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/20150716/sports/chelsea-racism
LONDON (AP) A man allegedly racially abused by Chelsea supporters in Paris says he was "violently" pushed off a metro train.
A statement from Souleymane Sylla was read out on Thursday at a London court where four men are fighting police attempts to issue them with football banning orders, and deny wrongdoing.
Video showed Sylla being pushed off the train by Chelsea supporters, who were singing "we're racist, we're racist, and that's the way we like it." It happened in February before a Champions League game against Paris Saint-Germain.
"When I approached them to enter the coach, one of them pushed me away violently to put me back on to the platform," Sylla said in statement read out at Stratford Magistrates' Court. "I again approached the carriage, explaining to this person I wanted to get back on the train.
"He didn't seem to understand what I said to him, and other supporters behind him were shouting and singing in English. As I don't speak English, I didn't understand what they said. Another person made a sign indicating to the color of the skin on his face."
Richard Barklie, 50, Jordan Munday, 20, Josh Parsons, 20, and William Simpson, 26, all deny any racism. Defense lawyers for all four men said they were not chanting or being racist, and Sylla was pushed off the train simply because it was full.
Barklie, a former police officer in Northern Ireland who now works as a human rights activist, admitted pushing Sylla off the carriage. But Barklie insisted he had no "racist motive," and Sylla was the only one "using aggression" by barging his way on to the train.
Speaking about video footage played in court, which shows him forcing Sylla off the train, Barklie said he put his hands up to protect himself.
"From what I've seen, and what I've viewed, (Sylla) was aggressively forcing himself into a space where there was none," Barklie said.
The case was adjourned until next Wednesday when District Judge Gareth Branston will give his ruling.
A fifth man, 32-year-old Dean Callis from north London, has already received a five-year banning order from football matches for his role in Paris and other incidents involving violence
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This is old news, is it not?
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This is old news, is it not?
Old news, but the article is more than about the event per se. It's about their defense and seeking to maintain/protect their privilege of attending matches.
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Emmanuel Frimpong sent off over gesture after fans make monkey chants
The former Arsenal player Emmanuel Frimpong was criticised by his own club and now faces a multi-game ban after he was sent off in Russia for his response to racist chants from opposing supporters.
The Ghanaian midfielder says he was subjected to monkey chants by Spartak Moscow fans while playing for FC Ufa in the opening game of the Russian Premier League season on Friday. The game ended 2-2.
Frimpong gestured with a finger toward the Spartak stands in the 31st minute, for which he received a straight red card.
Afterwards he said on Twitter that he had been racially abused for the game that I love.
When the match was stopped, the fans started shouting monkey at me, he told reporters. Then the monkey chants started. I dont have any problems with the Spartak fans in general. I just did not keep my cool, I showed my emotions and it was my mistake. I want to say sorry for what I did.
The Ufa general director, Shamil Gazizov, said his club would not seek any punishment against Spartak: It was an unfortunate incident. There were people who could have shouted things. These are emotions which go away after the game. We are partners with the red and whites and are on good terms.
What Frimpong did was wrong. Sometimes you even have to hold back the tears and just put up with it.
In a series of tweets he later said: Want to apologize for the sending off after being provoked shouldnt have happened but also am a human being shouldnt be racially abused for the game that I love.
Fantastic result to draw with Spartak proud of team and Im going to serve a sentence for being abused and yet we going to hold a World Cup in this country where African will have to come play football.
I must stressed not all Spartak fans done that only one person had to ruin it Spartak fans were brilliant and created a good atmosphere shame one person ruin it.
Three other black players have been punished for between two and four games since 2013 for making insulting gestures in reaction to racist abuse in the Russian league. A recent report revealed over 100 racism-related incidents in football over two seasons in the country.
Here's the thing: The Ufa general director, Shamil Gazizov, said "What Frimpong did was wrong. Sometimes you even have to hold back the tears and just put up with it." I wonder how long Comrade Gazizov would "just put up with it" if hundreds of people went to his place of work and called him a Communist murderer for 30 minutes?
Maybe the boy shouldn't have reacted but, HELLO, if those morons weren't shouting abuse, there'd be no reaction by Frimpong.
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Russia's approach to racism for the past god knows how long has been "na-na-na can't hear it", god knows how it'll go at the World Cup with homosexuals as well.
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Racism for years in Italy and Spain too, also in England too.. ah doh hear nobody crying when them countries hosted WC's
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Racism for years in Italy and Spain too, also in England too.. ah doh hear nobody crying when them countries hosted WC's
I can't speak for Italy or Spain, but racism has been aggressively confronted in the UK since the 80's especially in sport. I'm not saying it's fully eradicated by any means, but it's definitely not ignored. In fact, there are more mixed race marriages in London than in any other city in the world.
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Racism for years in Italy and Spain too, also in England too.. ah doh hear nobody crying when them countries hosted WC's
I can't speak for Italy or Spain, but racism has been aggressively confronted in the UK since the 80's especially in sport. I'm not saying it's fully eradicated by any means, but it's definitely not ignored. In fact, there are more mixed race marriages in London than in any other city in the world.
Racism in football still exist in UK TODAY. Do some research about Chelsea and their fans.
I doh care about mixed marriages. Your thread is highlighting Racism in Russia and you have the NERVE to ask why Russia hosting a WC. Germany and France hosted the WC when there were racism in their domestic leagues as well.
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Aye Football Supporter wha happening in UK eh? Took a look above^^ yuh want to question racism in Russia and asking why dem hosting WC.
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Racism for years in Italy and Spain too, also in England too.. ah doh hear nobody crying when them countries hosted WC's
I can't speak for Italy or Spain, but racism has been aggressively confronted in the UK since the 80's especially in sport. I'm not saying it's fully eradicated by any means, but it's definitely not ignored. In fact, there are more mixed race marriages in London than in any other city in the world.
Racism in football still exist in UK TODAY. Do some research about Chelsea and their fans.
I doh care about mixed marriages. Your thread is highlighting Racism in Russia and you have the NERVE to ask why Russia hosting a WC. Germany and France hosted the WC when there were racism in their domestic leagues as well.
There always has and always will be racism in every country. Take a look in your own country. But if a club/league/football association/government does not even recognise that it's wrong, then you have an institutional problem. By the way, Chelsea are not the worse in my experience. Take a trip to the Boleyn Ground one day!
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Aye Football Supporter wha happening in UK eh? Took a look above^^ yuh want to question racism in Russia and asking why dem hosting WC.
Why are you singling out the UK?
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The kick racism out of football campaign as well as well as government and fa support have helped the uk stamp out racism but there is still a lot more to be done not just here in the uk but world wide.
FS for me the worst place was the den / new den.
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The kick racism out of football campaign as well as well as government and fa support have helped the uk stamp out racism but there is still a lot more to be done not just here in the uk but world wide.
FS for me the worst place was the den / new den.
Yeah, that was bad for a long time. But I remember West Ham fans making monkey chants at black opposition players and they had several black West Ham players on the pitch. The ICF used to target Asians when they went to the Midlands.
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It's a lot better now mate still not 100% but I'd say we are trying to combat the situation. The ones that are racist are brain dead morons that will abuse the local shop owner then have a curry at the shop owners brothers restaurant
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Re: More Racism in Football: Do we really need a World Cup in Russia?
If FIFA serious about the Kick Racism Out campaign they have to be prepared to play football in what they may deem "hostile territory". That is the real test.
Go on "Offence" with the message.
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http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/former_syracuse_soccer_player_loses_substitute_teacher_job_over_2014_video_contr.html
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Ex-USMNT great DaMarcus Beasley: FIFA doing nothing to stop racism
ESPN
Former United States men's national team player DaMarcus Beasley said that FIFA isn't doing anything to combat racism in the sport and it is "disheartening" that players are still enduring abuse.
Speaking with ESPN's Herculez Gomez, Beasley recounted to his former USMNT teammate about when he suffered racist chants by fans in Montenegro during a Champions League qualifying game in August 2007.
Beasley and his Rangers teammate Jean-Claude Darcheville endured the chants in a 1-0 victory over FK Zeta. Beasley scored the goal in that game, his first for the Scottish side following a move from Manchester City.
"To hear monkey chants while you're playing, every single time you get the ball you feel rage, you want to do something more than just play the game," said Beasley.
Beasley, a mainstay for the national team and the only American to play in four World Cups, retired in 2019 after a club career that saw him play abroad in the Netherlands, England, Scotland, and Mexico. He last played for the Houston Dynamo in MLS.
Beasley said that FIFA has not combated the issue more directly and added that the incident in 2007 "was sweeped under the table."
"For me, I feel for players that are still getting that kind of treatment," Beasley added.
Beasley lamented that "it's gonna take [a player] going into the stands and knocking somebody out" if the sport doesn't do more to prevent racist acts.
Tottenham Hotspur's Eric Dier leapt into the stands to confront a spectator at Norwich City earlier this month who had insulted his brother. There were also allegations that a fan had also racially insulted a Spurs player.
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How Britain is losing the race: what Yorke, Hislop, Sancho and more faced in UK.
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868).
This report was initially written by Lasana Liburd for the Trinidad Express newspaper and published there on 25 November 2004:
It was not, as Birmingham City chairman David Sullivan pointed out, the crime of the century. The British Soccernet website claimed that the Blackburn Football Club, the site of the latest racial incident in the British game, harboured just two racist fans.
Some Blackburn supporters claimed there was just one.
In any case, Sullivan insisted that it was no big deal and suggested that Trinidad and Tobagos Dwight Yorke, effectively his employee, should have ignored it rather than confront the offending patrons.
Unanimously, the British media insisted that the monkey gestures and racist taunts aimed at the T&T star and Birmingham striker on Sunday were small, isolated and, most importantly, nothing like Spain.
Last Wednesday in Madrid, thousands of Spanish fans made sickening monkey chants whenever a black Englishman touched the ball. Spain was quickly branded an uncivilised nation by the British press and Professional Footballers Association (PFA) chief executive Gordon Taylor insisted that the English team should have walked off the field.
Tellingly, he did not say how many fans need to be making racial jibes before a team could head for the showers in good conscience.
Perhaps there were too few in Yorkes case; which, of course, was an isolated one. Like Ron Atkinsons gaffe, for instance.
Atkinsonwho ironically coached Yorke at Aston Villa in the early 90s, where he sometimes ordered players to punch and kick Yorke to toughen him up at training sessionsinfamously referred to former France captain and World Cup winner, Marcel Desailly, as a f**king, lazy, thick nigger in the ITV television studio after a Champions League match this April.
The microphone was still on, though, and Big Ron was asked to resign and complied.
It was not Atkinsons first racial jibe as a television commentator. He once referred to a Cameroon player as brainless during the 1990 World Cup. His producers quickly chided him but Atkinson got in the last word during the interval. Well if his mother is watching up a tree in Africa
Once more, his comments were inadvertently broadcast live in some countries and ITV received a complaint, but Atkinson remained on staff. That Ron Atkinson, they chuckle, never knows when to keep quiet.
There are other recent cases.
Dundee and Trinidad and Tobago defender Brent Sancho was called a black bastard and hauled out of a taxi last October; but after a fight ensued, Sancho and not his racist assailant was thrown into a cell and charged. (Sancho was later acquitted).
Fulham striker Luis Boa Morte was called a black c**t by Everton forward Duncan Ferguson in a Premiership match last season and reported the matter to the English FA.
But the FA dismissed the case for lack of evidence and the papers suggested that Boa Morte was a mischief-maker, which prompted a flood of abuse for the Portuguese striker by visiting fans.
There were people on my team who heard it and there were people on the Everton team who heard it too, said Boa Morte, but they didnt want to say anything. I had two or three really low weeks, I felt gutted.
Why would I have taken it to the FA if the thing didnt happen?
Another one-off, I suppose. But how many isolated incidents do it take before the relevant authorities accept that there is a problem?
Racist chants at the Millwall Football Club last season; English international defender Jonathan Woodgate convicted for assaulting an Asian student in a nightclub; Newcastle and Welsh striker Craig Bellamy racially abused an Asian door man A 2003 University report, supported by the PFA, found systematic exclusion of minorities at community clubs and extremely poor numbers of non-whites in managerial and staff positions at football clubs.
It might not amount to much for some influential figures like Sullivan, but it means a great deal to the rest of us. It certainly means a great deal to me.
Racism in football, even the vile stuff we observed when Jamaica-born ex-England and Liverpool star John Barnes was routinely pelted with bananas, is merely the tip of the iceberg.
Manchester United star Rio Ferdinand recalled that he would be stopped and questioned roughly ten times a week by the police when he drove across London from Peckham to West Ham for training as a teenager-barely seven years ago.
Trinidad and Tobago and Portsmouth goalkeeper Shaka Hislop remembered when, at Newcastle, a group of youths screamed racial insults and ran towards him in a threatening manner at a gas station. Then, they recognised him and subsequently begged for autographs.
So what of blacks who are unprotected by celebrity status in England?
Those still referred to in some quarters here, as darkie, coloured and negroand those are the affectionate references.
It is not like Spainor at least what we saw of them at that shameful international matchthat is undisputed. But this does not necessarily mean it is significantly better.
The Race Relations Act, passed in 1976, makes it an offence to racially abuse or assault someone, which can result to the offender being expelled from a bar or sporting ground or, in violent cases, jailed up to 14 years.
While the British Government and anti-racists groups have made progress in silencing racists, there is the feeling that insufficient headway has been made in converting them. By and large, it has allowed passive racism to fester.
On Saturday, I was ejected from a train while returning from an afternoon in Birmingham. The train conductor suggestedrather vaguelythat I had stolen or fraudulently acquired my rail pass, although I had the relevant travel documents on me.
After a lively debate, in which I refused to pay a fine, I was told that we would stop at then next station to locate a policeman to which I readily agreed. Once we had both disembarked, the conductor hopped back on the train, though, leaving me at a desolate and extremely cold stop.
I have already arranged a meeting with Central Trains to pursue the matter, but it was not an isolated case.
Once, the Portsmouth Football Club secretary, when trying to describe me over the telephone to an official enlisted to take me towards the players dressing rooms, curiously explained to his listener: you will know him when you see him.
But, generally, you are made to feel an outsider without words.
Like the young white couple I attempted to help as they struggled to keep their stalled car from rolling down a hill in the early evening.
On seeing my approach, the lady left her male companion with the weight of the vehicle on his back and sprinted to the other side of the car. He gesticulated frantically for me to come no closer.
No thank you, mate!
Perhaps Barnes summed it up best last week when he was approached for comment on the Spanish scandal and surprised the journalist by insisting that England was in no position to take the moral high ground.
Because we dont hear it any more we think were getting rid of racism, Barnes told the London Observer. Please, lets not all believe were much better in this country. The biggest thing for me is the hypocrisy of the people who were around 10 or 15 years ago when this was going on in English football.
Why werent they saying anything then? Is it just politically correct to be doing it now?
Silence, he explained, does not mean harmony.
When you talk about kicking racism out of football, he said, people automatically assume you are talking about on the terraces and on the football field.
But all racists have to do is keep their mouth shut for 90 minutes and theyre fine. Its good that people are talking about it, but its how theyre talking. Lets not believe that we are much better in this country.
Another former Arsenal player and present youth team coach, Paul Davis, revealed that he was overlooked for promotion at Arsenal for the third time last September. Instead, Steve Bould was given the post although he had five years less experience and was markedly less qualified than Davis.
Davis, when he questioned the snub, was told by Arsenal that he did not have the right personality for the job.
It doesnt make sense, he said. I obviously cant say that it was racism because it wasnt spelt out to me like that, but it wasnt done properly. There were no appraisals, no proper information on candidates; basically it was one person making the decision.
But [racism] is the hardest thing to accuse anyone of because how are you gonna prove it?
Racism is scariest off the football field.
An undercover BBC investigation found shocking and widespread racism at the Greater Manchester Police force last October, where policemen were taped boasting of victimising pakis and niggers. Yet Home Secretary and British MP David Blunkett initially slammed the BBC for their covert stunt before quickly back-pedalling after condemnation by anti-racism groups.
The BBC documentary was in response to a sharp rise in racially motivated crimes over the past decade. It is the same monster of racial prejudice that reared its head at Blackburn on Sunday.
Sullivan would have us look the other way.
Yorke did not!
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I didn't have a voice', Viv Anderson, England's first black player on his experiences regarding racism and diversity. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWtgxxp__U)
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Latest incident: Diakhaby (Valencia) on the receiving end of a comment by Cala (Cadiz).
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Davinson Sanchez (Tottenham) had an ugly episode on Instagram. It's repulsive when you read about it, but it is particularly vile and putrid when you see the actual images.
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FIFA, Concacaf to act on death threats, racism to T&T players.
By Walter Alibey (T&T Guardian).
Football's world governing body FIFA and the Confederation of North, Central America and the Caribbean Association Football (CONCACAF), are set to deal with issues of death threats, racism and attempts to physically harm directed to members of the T&T football team at the ongoing CONCACAF Gold Cup in the United States.
Angry Mexican fans hurled racial slurs and threw bottles at the T&T players during a Group A encounter between T&T and Mexico at the AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas, USA on Saturday. This situation was further exacerbated by a clash between Mexican winger Hirving 'Chucky' Lozano, goalkeeper Marvin Phillip and defender Alvin Jones at the end of the first half which resulted in Lozano being rushed to the hospital with a suspected injury to the head.
The game ended in a goalless draw as coach Angus Eve employed a counter-attacking strategy that, not only frustrated the tournament's defending champions, but prevented them from scoring.
Eve, yesterday confirmed to Guardian Media Sports that because of death threats to him and his players- Phillip and Jones, there has been heightened police presence at the hotel where the team is currently based.
The T&T Football Association has since reacted to this development by writing to both FIFA and the CONCACAF and has since received a promise that something will be done about it soon, the coach said.
Eve, a former national player, did not have this experience during his five years of playing for T&T at the Gold Cup, and in reliving the horrifying experience said they were outnumbered in terms of support at the stadium. However, the Mexican fans became very angry when their team could not score, so they started chanting racial slurs, throwing bottles at the players on the touchline and even shouted death threats.
"I must admit that I felt a bit bad for my players, and though there would normally be a police presence at our hotel, there was a heightened presence because of the death threats," Eve explained.
Eve in the post-match interview said the match was stopped three times because of the crowd's behaviour, noting: "At the third time I felt the referee should have stopped the match and awarded it to us because we have to stamp out this type of behaviour in the game."
To date, the T&TFA football page has been littered with threats and abuse from Mexican fans, with many also directed to Jones and Phillip. Phillip has since apologised to Lozano, saying there was definitely no intention to cause harm and later wished the Mexican player a speedy recovery.
On Sunday, Guardian Media Sports got a glimpse of some of the things that were said on the TTFA football page. Among the comments were: " Y'all some of the nastiest people I've ever seen play soccer. Y'all just go against Mexico to try and injure them. We're starting a petition to lick y'all out of the Gold Cup. Y'all aren't worth it"; "y'all some hoes for what cha did to Chucky Lozano"; "You will pay for Chucky Lozano you monkeys,".
On Monday, the president of the T&T Olympic Committee Brian Lewis, said he was angry when he heard about it initially.
Lewis who is also chairman of the Sport Integrity Global Alliance as well as the Gender Race-Inclusion and Diversity Standing Committee said: "What I was told it was trolling, but obviously it was racist, outright racism, the term used, the 'N' word, monkeys.
We can't hide from it, the fact that it is something that I have raised on more than one occasion, about the issue of racism in global sport. In April the T&TOC joined a boycott of social media for a weekend in protest of racism, racial activities taking place on social media. So I was initially angry because even though you're aware of it when it happens in an open way, it is triggering."
Meanwhile, a news release from the TTFA on Monday states: "The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association strongly condemns the discriminatory actions, racist comments and threatening messages directed at our players, staff, supporters and country following the Senior Men's National Team 0-0 result versus Mexico on 10th July 2021. Discrimination and racism have no part in our game and our society. Official reports have been lodged with CONCACAF and we are working with them to ensure that the safety and wellbeing of the team is maintained. These actions are rooted in division, so it is paramount that we unite to stamp them out. The Fight Back is Against Racism and Discrimination."
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To siberia with these dastardly mexicans. the last we played them at the HCS jovin scored a scorcher that was disallowed which they went on to win one nil, they played a very nasty physical game that night by tugging on shirts kicking players heels mowing down kenwin at every chance and in spite of the flagrant fouls the referee failed to act, they even fouled molino in the box AND NO PENALTY WAS GIVEN, in fact they got all the calls that night and no one made a fuss there was no facebook no media no nothing, it was all swept under the rug and that was that.
IMO mexico and the untied states gets preferential treatment from most of these concacaf officials which gives them this feeling of entitlement when calls don't go their way. on saturday they met a fair referee who called the game properly with no favoritism and their golden boy charged into a 50/50 and got the worst of it, so screw them, let them cry all they want. i hope fifa bans them for a while with those silly chants of theirs, sore losers.
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Italy's fans have been very bad, is only because covid restrictions have kept fans out of the stadiums that we haven't had any recent incidents. As soon as the fans are back yuh go hear them. The league executives do nothing.
Black players should boycott that league
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TTFA, Concacaf condemn racist attacks on T&T team
By Joel Bailey (T&T Newsday).
THE TT Football Association (TTFA), as well as Concacaf (Confederation of North, Central America and Caribbean Association Football), have both condemned verbal attacks on the T&T mens team during and after Saturdays goalless draw against Mexico in the opening match of the 2021 Concacaf Gold Cup.
It was played at the AT&T Stadium, Arlington, Texas.
Referee Ricardo Montero stopped play in the 86th minute, as well as the sixth minute of second-half injury time (90th plus six) because of chants from the Mexican fans about the T&T team.
The TTFA, in a post on its Facebook page, wrote, (We) strongly condemn the discriminatory actions, racist comments and threatening messages directed at our players, staff, supporters and country following (Saturdays game).
The local governing body for football said it was working with Concacaf to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the team.
These actions are rooted in division, so it is paramount that we unite to stamp them out.
Concacaf, in a Twitter post, said, Some of the comments in response to this post (the starting line-ups for both T&T and Mexico on Twitter) are disgraceful. We stand with the
TTFA in condemning them. Racism has no place in our game or in society and social media companies must do more to regulate this on their platforms.
T&T coach Angus Eve, during the post-game media conference, said, We need to stamp these behaviours out of sport.
He said the T&T team should have been awarded full points.
In June, Mexico were ordered by the worlds governing body FIFA to play their first two home matches, in the 2022 FIFA World Cup Concacaf Qualifiers, behind closed doors against Jamaica (September 2) and Canada (October 7). The Mexican federation were also fined US$73,000 after fans used a homophobic chant during a pre-Olympic tournament in Guadalajara, Mexico earlier this year.