Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Sam on January 06, 2013, 10:01:23 AM
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We have a terrorist for a coach.
How can a man help stick up a country, kill innocent civilians, burn down buildings, shoot the President and walk the streets today free and unscratched.
Now the TTFF making this man our coach and trying for people to buy into this crap of being the most successful coach in T&T when that's not true.
How can we support this propaganda.
In other countries this man and his right hand buddy Abu Bakr would have been hung.
Didn't the TTFF realised that when Shabazz was Guyana coach not only did they lose most of their games but they were embarrass, collecting 25 goals in 5 games.
Wake up Time Kee and stop making Anton pull yuh stones.
If the TTFF honest, they will see T&T was lucky to even place in the top 4 of the Caribbean Cup, after French Guiana, T&T was the worst team in the tournament.
We cannot get fool by T&T place in the tournament, they had ONE good game against Martinique and a deceent one again Haiti. Dominican Republic shoulda beat we badly, only because they did not finish they end up loosing.
Is because of de individual of the players we made it, but as a team they not playing good.
We have no principlies in T&T and the whole dam country corrupted.
Shabazz sold out Guyana last game vs Mexico to be played in the US a place he is ban from, I cant wait to see what the TTFF will do when the Gold Cup reach and de man they put all they trust in cant go.
Is baccanal in we ass.
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fire!
we doh need no inept treasonist, terrorist murderer as coach.
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How can a man help stick up a country, kill innocent civilians, burn down buildings, shoot the President and walk the streets today free and unscratched.
Dat is not true, stop lying on de man!!!! Is the Prime Minister they shoot! ;)
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How can a man help stick up a country, kill innocent civilians, burn down buildings, shoot the President and walk the streets today free and unscratched.
Dat is not true, stop lying on de man!!!! Is the Prime Minister they shoot! ;)
LOL
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We have a terrorist for a coach.
How can a man help stick up a country, kill innocent civilians, burn down buildings, shoot the President and walk the streets today free and unscratched
The same way we could have a crook and teef as Minister of National Security
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If allyuh want tuh fire the man based on his performance in the semis vs mex, CR and el salv, then yes i agree whole heartedly, but if based on his participation in the coop, then i say yuh out for dogone lunch fuh startin such an imbecilic thread.
BTW, i wonder if allyuh really going to hold this against ah 21 yr old for being mislead by a big old horse like abu? for crying out loud the fella was ah yute! give him ah bleigh nah.
on another note, ah wonder if allyuh would call ah fella like george washington ah terrorist too? after all he started a coop against the british colonials.
and unlike shabbaz, he killed loads of british forces and could you imagine how many women were raped during this process which was never mentioned? but yet we made ah slaver ah hero and the first president of this great nation, and forgot to label him a terrorist.
what about queen elizabeth, matter of fact, what about the british monarchy on the whole, how much ppl they killed, enslaved, colonize and oppressed?
IMO, if these ppl we tend to admire and venerate could get ah bleigh, then fack that! i willing tuh give shabbaz ah bleigh too, just not as our coach though. :cursing:
sometimes i sit and fantasize, what if they were successful in their attempts and shabbaz and his accomplices had turn our fortunes around and made T&T a model nation, would we still be callin him ah taliban, or would he have been a venerated hero like good ole georgy boy the slave owner / liberator / freedom fighter? :thinking: positive.
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So if a 21 year old kill your family because he was incourage by another he should walk free?
A 21 yr old is an ADULT and should be charged as one.
just cool, you make no sense.
Besides, Shabaaz was not 21 in 1990, he was 27, he born in 1963.
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So if a 21 year old kill your family because he was incourage by another he should walk free?
A 21 yr old is an ADULT and should be charged as one.
just cool, you make no sense.
Besides, Shabaaz was not 21 in 1990, he was 27, he born in 1963.
Don't know why people keep saying he was a yute. He was ah big hard back man on tv.
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So if a 21 year old kill your family because he was incourage by another he should walk free?
A 21 yr old is an ADULT and should be charged as one.
just cool, you make no sense.
Besides, Shabaaz was not 21 in 1990, he was 27, he born in 1963.
That iz your opinion bro, who ever said that i have to satisfy the the massive, but let me ask you this, what would you say of someone like che gueverra, is he a freedom fighter, or was he a terrorist trouble maker?
while yuh ponder on that let me just let you in on this. don't you know it's legal for the military to dethrone a leader of a democracy if they conclude that he's working against the sovereignty of the nation, or that his policies are un constitutional , or the leader of that nation is unfit to rule?
the military also have a right to suspend the government, if necessary by force, and impose marshal law or a state of emergency. like you forgetting that the definition of a democracy or what?
it mainly constitute the "power of the people" to change their government by election or protest, and if necessary by forceful measures.
FYI the jammat was acting within their rights, that's why they are not rotting in jail as we speak. like i have said before, when i was ah yute in T&T i was very disgruntled with the governance @ the time, and felt the atmosphere of dissension and was not suprised when it all went down.
if you say that shabbaz was ah terrorist , then shah, lassale, dave daebrau (kaffara combron) geddes granger( makanadal dagga) should all be considered terrorist as well, and if you are a man of color then you should know that these are the men who risk their lives so black nayger and collie mudafackers could be respected in the labor force and hold jobs that hitherto (1970) was nearly impossible.
it's bc of men like clyde nunez, granger and bazil davis that we the non whites and french creole could hold our heads high and equals in this nation, before that ppl of darker hue was treated like beast of burden by the social white elites, so doh talk what yuh eh know, bc i was there in the 80ies as ah big man, and tuh tell yuh the truth.
i see decent fellas who was bright as no arse and raised with good values resorted to selling drugs bc back then yuh couldn't even get ah gig breaking fackin rocks in ah quarry, let alone mix concrete on ah construction site.
IMO the government starve the ppl out soo much that i believe they were the ones who open up the door for drugs and cime to engolf the nation with the mismanagment of the country.
that coup was ah necessary evil, trust meh guy.
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The only rights de jamat have was de right to remain silent. Shabaaz should be living in Iraq and not T&T.
He is ah f00king terrorist don't matter what color you color it.
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So if a 21 year old kill your family because he was incourage by another he should walk free?
A 21 yr old is an ADULT and should be charged as one.
just cool, you make no sense.
Besides, Shabaaz was not 21 in 1990, he was 27, he born in 1963.
That iz your opinion bro, who ever said that i have to satisfy the the massive, but let me ask you this, what would you say of someone like che gueverra, is he a freedom fighter, or was he a terrorist trouble maker?
dem fellas did not have free and fair elections, we always had that in T&T...we have no reason for revolution, coups or such shit.
while yuh ponder on that let me just let you in on this. don't you know it's legal for the military to dethrone a leader of a democracy if they conclude that he's working against the sovereignty of the nation, or that his policies are un constitutional , or the leader of that nation is unfit to rule?
the military also have a right to suspend the government, if necessary by force, and impose marshal law or a state of emergency. like you forgetting that the definition of a democracy or what?
what democracy you get that info from??? Military is an arm of the government...how dey go suspend the government???
it mainly constitute the "power of the people" to change their government by election or protest, and if necessary by forceful measures.
protesting against an unjust government is one thing revolution against a despotic and unjust government is another...again such actions were bnever justified in T&Tespecially from de f**king Jamaat and dem...petty crooks trying to play righteous
FYI the jammat was acting within their rights, that's why they are not rotting in jail as we speak. like i have said before, when i was ah yute in T&T i was very disgruntled with the governance @ the time, and felt the atmosphere of dissension and was not suprised when it all went down.
Them f**kers real lucky to be alive and breathing today. Acting within their rights would be to petition the police to hold demonstrations, exercising their franchise and voting them out, even forming their own political party and campaigning...not shooting up de place killing innocent people, burning and looting...nor was it within their rights to illegally possess weapons...check the constitution and the laws of T&T
if you say that shabbaz was ah terrorist , then shah, lassale, dave daebrau (kaffara combron) geddes granger( makanadal dagga) should all be considered terrorist as well, and if you are a man of color then you should know that these are the men who risk their lives so black nayger and collie mudafackers could be respected in the labor force and hold jobs that hitherto (1970) was nearly impossible.
Most of these men were treasonous and mutineers and are extremely lucky to be alive. Getting off on technicalities is not some sort of absolution!! Dem f**kers asked for Kwame Nkruma and dem to try dem and dey find dem guilty. dem fellas surrendered after 10 days and get jailed....as I said is a technicality dat free dem. Man like Colonel Theophilus Yakubu Danjuma, Colonel Ignatius Acheampong, Major Obitre-Gama, were the judges, and the State Prosecutors were: Bruce Procope, Theodore Guerra, Gerald Stewart, Aldric Benjamin and Maureen Thompson. Defense was Pope Wharton, Allan Alexander, Desmond Allum, Aeneas Wills, Arthur Lawrence (now Atta Kujufi), Clive Phelps, Clem Razack ( he dead). Dem fellas and all admit freely that they were guilty of mutiny...BUT got off ONLY because the Appeal Courts threw out the convictions and sentences mainly on the ground that the condonation plea was not heard in a fair manner.
it's bc of men like clyde nunez, granger and bazil davis that we the non whites and french creole could hold our heads high and equals in this nation, before that ppl of darker hue was treated like beast of burden by the social white elites, so doh talk what yuh eh know, bc i was there in the 80ies as ah big man, and tuh tell yuh the truth.
SO why did the ruling Black Government the PNM led by Eric hold their own blacks in suppression and yuh blaming de french creoles and dem? I agree that 1970 and 71 a change between the poor rich gap closed in T&T..but why blame people dey ahd black elitists indeed dem f**kers were running the country!
i see decent fellas who was bright as no arse and raised with good values resorted to selling drugs bc back then yuh couldn't even get ah gig breaking fackin rocks in ah quarry, let alone mix concrete on ah construction site.
IMO the government starve the ppl out soo much that i believe they were the ones who open up the door for drugs and cime to engolf the nation with the mismanagment of the country.
The government made one huge mistake, no consultations, and de Fact dat Opec had oil real cheap, de IMF had we back to the wall and the fact we did not support the US in military action against the Cubans in Grenada make we pay for dat..I doh blame the NAR government too much at all...especially when yuh look at the state of the treasury...wha dey was supposed to do? Print more money?
that coup was ah necessary evil, trust meh guy.
The coup was run by some evil f**kers with nefarious motives in mind, thankfully dey failed....
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anything with NATION in it like NATIONal football no f**king seditious f**k should be around
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So if a 21 year old kill your family because he was incourage by another he should walk free?
A 21 yr old is an ADULT and should be charged as one.
just cool, you make no sense.
Besides, Shabaaz was not 21 in 1990, he was 27, he born in 1963.
That iz your opinion bro, who ever said that i have to satisfy the the massive, but let me ask you this, what would you say of someone like che gueverra, is he a freedom fighter, or was he a terrorist trouble maker?
dem fellas did not have free and fair elections, we always had that in T&T...we have no reason for revolution, coups or such shit.
while yuh ponder on that let me just let you in on this. don't you know it's legal for the military to dethrone a leader of a democracy if they conclude that he's working against the sovereignty of the nation, or that his policies are un constitutional , or the leader of that nation is unfit to rule?
the military also have a right to suspend the government, if necessary by force, and impose marshal law or a state of emergency. like you forgetting that the definition of a democracy or what?
what democracy you get that info from??? Military is an arm of the government...how dey go suspend the government???
it mainly constitute the "power of the people" to change their government by election or protest, and if necessary by forceful measures.
protesting against an unjust government is one thing revolution against a despotic and unjust government is another...again such actions were bnever justified in T&Tespecially from de f**king Jamaat and dem...petty crooks trying to play righteous
FYI the jammat was acting within their rights, that's why they are not rotting in jail as we speak. like i have said before, when i was ah yute in T&T i was very disgruntled with the governance @ the time, and felt the atmosphere of dissension and was not suprised when it all went down.
Them f**kers real lucky to be alive and breathing today. Acting within their rights would be to petition the police to hold demonstrations, exercising their franchise and voting them out, even forming their own political party and campaigning...not shooting up de place killing innocent people, burning and looting...nor was it within their rights to illegally possess weapons...check the constitution and the laws of T&T
if you say that shabbaz was ah terrorist , then shah, lassale, dave daebrau (kaffara combron) geddes granger( makanadal dagga) should all be considered terrorist as well, and if you are a man of color then you should know that these are the men who risk their lives so black nayger and collie mudafackers could be respected in the labor force and hold jobs that hitherto (1970) was nearly impossible.
Most of these men were treasonous and mutineers and are extremely lucky to be alive. Getting off on technicalities is not some sort of absolution!! Dem f**kers asked for Kwame Nkruma and dem to try dem and dey find dem guilty. dem fellas surrendered after 10 days and get jailed....as I said is a technicality dat free dem. Man like Colonel Theophilus Yakubu Danjuma, Colonel Ignatius Acheampong, Major Obitre-Gama, were the judges, and the State Prosecutors were: Bruce Procope, Theodore Guerra, Gerald Stewart, Aldric Benjamin and Maureen Thompson. Defense was Pope Wharton, Allan Alexander, Desmond Allum, Aeneas Wills, Arthur Lawrence (now Atta Kujufi), Clive Phelps, Clem Razack ( he dead). Dem fellas and all admit freely that they were guilty of mutiny...BUT got off ONLY because the Appeal Courts threw out the convictions and sentences mainly on the ground that the condonation plea was not heard in a fair manner.
it's bc of men like clyde nunez, granger and bazil davis that we the non whites and french creole could hold our heads high and equals in this nation, before that ppl of darker hue was treated like beast of burden by the social white elites, so doh talk what yuh eh know, bc i was there in the 80ies as ah big man, and tuh tell yuh the truth.
SO why did the ruling Black Government the PNM led by Eric hold their own blacks in suppression and yuh blaming de french creoles and dem? I agree that 1970 and 71 a change between the poor rich gap closed in T&T..but why blame people dey ahd black elitists indeed dem f**kers were running the country!
i see decent fellas who was bright as no arse and raised with good values resorted to selling drugs bc back then yuh couldn't even get ah gig breaking fackin rocks in ah quarry, let alone mix concrete on ah construction site.
IMO the government starve the ppl out soo much that i believe they were the ones who open up the door for drugs and cime to engolf the nation with the mismanagment of the country.
The government made one huge mistake, no consultations, and de Fact dat Opec had oil real cheap, de IMF had we back to the wall and the fact we did not support the US in military action against the Cubans in Grenada make we pay for dat..I doh blame the NAR government too much at all...especially when yuh look at the state of the treasury...wha dey was supposed to do? Print more money?
that coup was ah necessary evil, trust meh guy.
The coup was run by some evil f**kers with nefarious motives in mind, thankfully dey failed....
Thank God i didn't expect anything different from you, or else i would be extremely disappointed.
i wanted to ask you this though. you said that we had a black government, but what was the doc to do, wave a wand and make the white capitalist start opening their doors to black employees?
believe you me the doc had a hand in that coup of 1970, just as panday had a hand in the coup of 1990. dr williams the week before gave a firey speech @ UWI then a week later the coup went down.
i believe his hands were tied, but he was in favor of a shake up of the white elite. he could not get fully involved, and even though he knew the coup would fail, i believe in his heart he endorsed the effort.
BTW tell me this, do you endorse the american revolution?
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Te Doc called a State of emergency that triggered the coup..he was enemy number 1....and yeah he could have stopped the white capitalist dead in their tracks if he wanted. yep.
Off course I endorse the American Revolution, the Civil war was the second american revolution and I endorse that too.
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Let me educate you a little bit about Eric Williams and the Black Power Movement.
The PNM government under Eric's leadership gave educational access to young people like never before in the History of Trinidad and Tobago. At the same time the same government curtailed worker's rights continuously. First they pass the Industrial Stabilization Act in 1965, this at a time when there was massive labor unrest and a stronger Trade Union movement. Eric versus the Trade Unions...that equaled big troubles.
The act make it illegal for protests and curtailed workers' rights to resolve labor grievances. At a time when Opec was not yet around, there was growing unemployment and the vstiges of colonialism was still rampant (yuh french creole/white hegemony) SO a brain drain started, as thousand leaving school and no freaking jobs.
Eric Williams let the police loose on the people, students and workers. Yuh boy Clive Nunez, Clive Aberdeen, Joe Young and dem from TIWU launch a big protest and police start locking people up! Under Eric directions too eh.
What de hell was Eric and HIS BLACK government doing to help the black people and the indian people? Not a f**k dais what!
Then there were the struggles for liberty and independence in AFrica and Asia, all dem students we send overseas saw the struggles and brought the ideologies home to T&T...more trouble for Eric, he say f**k dat...ah not allowing that challenge to my leasdership.
The Black Power movement taking place within the MINDS of young BLACK trini people in and out of T&T Canada in particular...was more of a cultural revolution than a political movement...!
Khafra Kambon, mentioned the reading young blacks were interested in...Books by Stokeley Carmichael, Fidel Castro, Che, Debray, Fanon, Malcolm X etc. were popular and were the catalyst for movement. Geddes Granger who was in Canada started the Joint National Action Committee...later NJAC...took a leadership role in demonstrations and Black Power movement in T&T.
about 30 groups coalesed and protested all the while Eric telling the police to lock up dey cyat hole. On Feb 20th 1970, the road wass busy in T&T...thousands in the streets of POS and south...railing against racism, and demanding jobs in banks, access to beaches etc for darker skinned people...mind you, this with a BLACK GOVERNMENT in charge.
Ereic was propping up the white business class, and letting colonial hegemony continue...the churches were also complicit in helping Eric maintain this status quo.
Eric response..S State of Emergency and prison for the leaders of the protests.
So called Guerillas emerged after with NUFF (National Union of Freedom Fighters)etc. Beverley and Jennifer Jones, (I went to school with their little brother in Trinity) Clem Haynes, the URO (United Revolutionary Organization) used to walk into police staions and banks and rob dem...with their Marxist-socialist slant..these people felt the need to take up a armed struggle to deal with the BRUTAL POLICE action by Eric Williams.
URO was real strong on women's rights and equality. I rememebr the saying: Say it Loud, I am Black and Proud, I remember Mahalia Jackson coming to T&T, by the Net ball courts in POS...cars getting turn over, my teacher, Charles Applewhite with he big silver bracelet making the Black power sign with a closed fist.
real exciting days for a young fella those were.
Kitchner singing Jericho etc. Police and Army going into the hills and executing the NUFF peeps.
Ahhh Basil Davis funeral had so many people yuh could not get a taxi, police shoot he dead, red and black flags all over he coffin and people dressed in red and black too. Eric was eliminating all ah dem..one by one, and each one ah dem had HUGE funerals.
Posters and spray painted symbols all over POS and South Forest Reserve area. Guardian saying they were public enemy number 1!!!
Doh try telling me Eric was behind the black power movement at all at all. he regarded it as a threat and de dealt with it with impunity!
NJAC and dem did win in de end as they get the changes they wanted, beaches in Tobago open up, banks hired black people all this after 1974 eh!
Agian f**k dat shiot about Eric supporting black power. Not so at all.
Oh and afros became the style during the 70's too
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Let me educate you a little bit about Eric Williams and the Black Power Movement.
The PNM government under Eric's leadership gave educational access to young people like never before in the History of Trinidad and Tobago. At the same time the same government curtailed worker's rights continuously. First they pass the Industrial Stabilization Act in 1965, this at a time when there was massive labor unrest and a stronger Trade Union movement. Eric versus the Trade Unions...that equaled big troubles.
The act make it illegal for protests and curtailed workers' rights to resolve labor grievances. At a time when Opec was not yet around, there was growing unemployment and the vstiges of colonialism was still rampant (yuh french creole/white hegemony) SO a brain drain started, as thousand leaving school and no freaking jobs.
Eric Williams let the police loose on the people, students and workers. Yuh boy Clive Nunez, Clive Aberdeen, Joe Young and dem from TIWU launch a big protest and police start locking people up! Under Eric directions too eh.
What de hell was Eric and HIS BLACK government doing to help the black people and the indian people? Not a f**k dais what!
Then there were the struggles for liberty and independence in AFrica and Asia, all dem students we send overseas saw the struggles and brought the ideologies home to T&T...more trouble for Eric, he say f**k dat...ah not allowing that challenge to my leasdership.
The Black Power movement taking place within the MINDS of young BLACK trini people in and out of T&T Canada in particular...was more of a cultural revolution than a political movement...!
Khafra Kambon, mentioned the reading young blacks were interested in...Books by Stokeley Carmichael, Fidel Castro, Che, Debray, Fanon, Malcolm X etc. were popular and were the catalyst for movement. Geddes Granger who was in Canada started the Joint National Action Committee...later NJAC...took a leadership role in demonstrations and Black Power movement in T&T.
about 30 groups coalesed and protested all the while Eric telling the police to lock up dey cyat hole. On Feb 20th 1970, the road wass busy in T&T...thousands in the streets of POS and south...railing against racism, and demanding jobs in banks, access to beaches etc for darker skinned people...mind you, this with a BLACK GOVERNMENT in charge.
Ereic was propping up the white business class, and letting colonial hegemony continue...the churches were also complicit in helping Eric maintain this status quo.
Eric response..S State of Emergency and prison for the leaders of the protests.
So called Guerillas emerged after with NUFF (National Union of Freedom Fighters)etc. Beverley and Jennifer Jones, (I went to school with their little brother in Trinity) Clem Haynes, the URO (United Revolutionary Organization) used to walk into police staions and banks and rob dem...with their Marxist-socialist slant..these people felt the need to take up a armed struggle to deal with the BRUTAL POLICE action by Eric Williams.
URO was real strong on women's rights and equality. I rememebr the saying: Say it Loud, I am Black and Proud, I remember Mahalia Jackson coming to T&T, by the Net ball courts in POS...cars getting turn over, my teacher, Charles Applewhite with he big silver bracelet making the Black power sign with a closed fist.
real exciting days for a young fella those were.
Kitchner singing Jericho etc. Police and Army going into the hills and executing the NUFF peeps.
Ahhh Basil Davis funeral had so many people yuh could not get a taxi, police shoot he dead, red and black flags all over he coffin and people dressed in red and black too. Eric was eliminating all ah dem..one by one, and each one ah dem had HUGE funerals.
Posters and spray painted symbols all over POS and South Forest Reserve area. Guardian saying they were public enemy number 1!!!
Doh try telling me Eric was behind the black power movement at all at all. he regarded it as a threat and de dealt with it with impunity!
NJAC and dem did win in de end as they get the changes they wanted, beaches in Tobago open up, banks hired black people all this after 1974 eh!
Agian f**k dat shiot about Eric supporting black power. Not so at all.
Oh and afros became the style during the 70's too
Yuh didn't have to do just cool like dat man :devil:
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If allyuh want tuh fire the man based on his performance in the semis vs mex, CR and el salv, then yes i agree whole heartedly, but if based on his participation in the coop, then i say yuh out for dogone lunch fuh startin such an imbecilic thread.
BTW, i wonder if allyuh really going to hold this against ah 21 yr old for being mislead by a big old horse like abu? for crying out loud the fella was ah yute! give him ah bleigh nah.
on another note, ah wonder if allyuh would call ah fella like george washington ah terrorist too? after all he started a coop against the british colonials.
and unlike shabbaz, he killed loads of british forces and could you imagine how many women were raped during this process which was never mentioned? but yet we made ah slaver ah hero and the first president of this great nation, and forgot to label him a terrorist.
what about queen elizabeth, matter of fact, what about the british monarchy on the whole, how much ppl they killed, enslaved, colonize and oppressed?
IMO, if these ppl we tend to admire and venerate could get ah bleigh, then fack that! i willing tuh give shabbaz ah bleigh too, just not as our coach though. :cursing:
sometimes i sit and fantasize, what if they were successful in their attempts and shabbaz and his accomplices had turn our fortunes around and made T&T a model nation, would we still be callin him ah taliban, or would he have been a venerated hero like good ole georgy boy the slave owner / liberator / freedom fighter? :thinking: positive.
Dread you need to look up the definition of 'terrorist' before yuh start making yuhself seem so uninformed. One of the key factors is unprovoked attacks against civilians, as a means of striking terror into the hearts of the civilian population, as a means of attacking/destabilizing the ultimate target (in most cases, the government). George Washington never attack any civilians. If they was raping women then they were raping their own women because there weren't too many colonists who were loyal to the King... nearly all of them were opposed. This is why the English made such a big push to recruit blacks, Native Americans, French and German (Hessian Horsemen) mercenaries. The rest of the British forces were shipped in from England... they didn't bring any women with them. So again, who were these women they were allegedly raping, their own wives and daughters? More likely we haven't heard of these rapes because they never happened.
If you want, "insurrectionist" might be a better term, and this would apply to Shabazz as well... along with rank terrorist. It is folly to try and equate the two however, as even the most casual examination would reveal. History has been kind to Washington, in spite of his many faults, because the cause for which he fought was noble. However the British wanted to justify the fight, the fact of the matter is that King George was an oppressor, any how you want to define it. People didn't have basic freedom... if yuh curious about what 'freedom' ah talking about then consult the Bill of Rights (http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html). Those ten items didn't appear first in the Constitution because they sound nice... these were the things the Colonists were most upset about, these were the basic rights which they were being deprived of. Anybody could objectively look at that (implied) list of grievances and see they were legit. What legit list could Shabazz point to? He wasn't fighting fuh no bigger cause, dem fellas and dem was only concerned with theyself. They didn't like they lot in life and so they tried to change it by the gun. And you want man to feel sorry fuh dem? GTFOH
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That iz your opinion bro, who ever said that i have to satisfy the the massive, but let me ask you this, what would you say of someone like che gueverra, is he a freedom fighter, or was he a terrorist trouble maker?
while yuh ponder on that let me just let you in on this. don't you know it's legal for the military to dethrone a leader of a democracy if they conclude that he's working against the sovereignty of the nation, or that his policies are un constitutional , or the leader of that nation is unfit to rule?
the military also have a right to suspend the government, if necessary by force, and impose marshal law or a state of emergency. like you forgetting that the definition of a democracy or what?
it mainly constitute the "power of the people" to change their government by election or protest, and if necessary by forceful measures.
FYI the jammat was acting within their rights, that's why they are not rotting in jail as we speak. like i have said before, when i was ah yute in T&T i was very disgruntled with the governance @ the time, and felt the atmosphere of dissension and was not suprised when it all went down.
if you say that shabbaz was ah terrorist , then shah, lassale, dave daebrau (kaffara combron) geddes granger( makanadal dagga) should all be considered terrorist as well, and if you are a man of color then you should know that these are the men who risk their lives so black nayger and collie mudafackers could be respected in the labor force and hold jobs that hitherto (1970) was nearly impossible.
it's bc of men like clyde nunez, granger and bazil davis that we the non whites and french creole could hold our heads high and equals in this nation, before that ppl of darker hue was treated like beast of burden by the social white elites, so doh talk what yuh eh know, bc i was there in the 80ies as ah big man, and tuh tell yuh the truth.
i see decent fellas who was bright as no arse and raised with good values resorted to selling drugs bc back then yuh couldn't even get ah gig breaking fackin rocks in ah quarry, let alone mix concrete on ah construction site.
IMO the government starve the ppl out soo much that i believe they were the ones who open up the door for drugs and cime to engolf the nation with the mismanagment of the country.
that coup was ah necessary evil, trust meh guy.
You talking shit. Legal where... in Russia? Point to the law or provision in the Trinidad Constitution that says it legal to dethrone a democratically elected government. I think you watching too many African movies... Nollywood have yuh head bad.
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If allyuh want tuh fire the man based on his performance in the semis vs mex, CR and el salv, then yes i agree whole heartedly, but if based on his participation in the coop, then i say yuh out for dogone lunch fuh startin such an imbecilic thread.
BTW, i wonder if allyuh really going to hold this against ah 21 yr old for being mislead by a big old horse like abu? for crying out loud the fella was ah yute! give him ah bleigh nah.
on another note, ah wonder if allyuh would call ah fella like george washington ah terrorist too? after all he started a coop against the british colonials.
and unlike shabbaz, he killed loads of british forces and could you imagine how many women were raped during this process which was never mentioned? but yet we made ah slaver ah hero and the first president of this great nation, and forgot to label him a terrorist.
what about queen elizabeth, matter of fact, what about the british monarchy on the whole, how much ppl they killed, enslaved, colonize and oppressed?
IMO, if these ppl we tend to admire and venerate could get ah bleigh, then fack that! i willing tuh give shabbaz ah bleigh too, just not as our coach though. :cursing:
sometimes i sit and fantasize, what if they were successful in their attempts and shabbaz and his accomplices had turn our fortunes around and made T&T a model nation, would we still be callin him ah taliban, or would he have been a venerated hero like good ole georgy boy the slave owner / liberator / freedom fighter? :thinking: positive.
Dread you need to look up the definition of 'terrorist' before yuh start making yuhself seem so uninformed. One of the key factors is unprovoked attacks against civilians, as a means of striking terror into the hearts of the civilian population, as a means of attacking/destabilizing the ultimate target (in most cases, the government). George Washington never attack any civilians. If they was raping women then they were raping their own women because there weren't too many colonists who were loyal to the King... nearly all of them were opposed. This is why the English made such a big push to recruit blacks, Native Americans, French and German (Hessian Horsemen) mercenaries. The rest of the British forces were shipped in from England... they didn't bring any women with them. So again, who were these women they were allegedly raping, their own wives and daughters? More likely we haven't heard of these rapes because they never happened.
If you want, "insurrectionist" might be a better term, and this would apply to Shabazz as well... along with rank terrorist. It is folly to try and equate the two however, as even the most casual examination would reveal. History has been kind to Washington, in spite of his many faults, because the cause for which he fought was noble. However the British wanted to justify the fight, the fact of the matter is that King George was an oppressor, any how you want to define it. People didn't have basic freedom... if yuh curious about what 'freedom' ah talking about then consult the Bill of Rights (http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html). Those ten items didn't appear first in the Constitution because they sound nice... these were the things the Colonists were most upset about, these were the basic rights which they were being deprived of. Anybody could objectively look at that (implied) list of grievances and see they were legit. What legit list could Shabazz point to? He wasn't fighting fuh no bigger cause, dem fellas and dem was only concerned with theyself. They didn't like they lot in life and so they tried to change it by the gun. And you want man to feel sorry fuh dem? GTFOH
So what you saying iz, the 1970 black power movement/ coup did not produce positives that ppl of color today benfited from?
and you say king george was an oppressor, but what about the neo colonial government we had @ the time, weren't their policies one sided and oppressive as well that the ppl @ that time was forced to rise up and demand equal opportunity?
another thing while yuh @ it, what civilians did the jammat attack in 90, or NUFF attacked in 70? :waiting:
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Unlike you mister palos, i am not above being schooled on a subject, as ah matter of fact i welcome it, but could you humble yuhself and let knowledge prevail? i'm guessing no!
you would kick and buk like ah wild donkey rather than to admit short comings. so laugh all yuh want, @ least there's hope for me, the same can't be said for you though mr too proud.
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F00ck Jamaal Shabazz, he should dead !!!
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I agree....I read a report on risk ratings of Countries recently
A country's risk rating is used for assessing the terrorist financing and money laundering risk associated with certain financial transactions...
The coup of 1990 is one of the key reasons that Trinidad and Tobago today has such a high risk rating...the fact that these guys walk free and guys like Jamaal doing so well continue to raise red flags...
we better than that, and whatever his record maybe as a coach, I do not support him and his terrorist self
...In any other country, this man would have been in jail or dead....
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True trini your analysis of our political history is on point! I believe in forgiveness though if someone shows remorse ! We still have a Commission of Enquiry into the 1990 Coup attempt and it should be given a chance to be concluded, all findings made public and accepted recommendations on the way forward! Until then we should hold giving persons involved in the coup this level of responsibility ! It is premature and in any event he didnot show any special talent at the last World Cup preliminaries coaching Guyana ! It was licks and more licks! 25 goals in 5 matches?
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So what you saying iz, the 1970 black power movement/ coup did not produce positives that ppl of color today benfited from?
and you say king george was an oppressor, but what about the neo colonial government we had @ the time, weren't their policies one sided and oppressive as well that the ppl @ that time was forced to rise up and demand equal opportunity?
another thing while yuh @ it, what civilians did the jammat attack in 90, or NUFF attacked in 70? :waiting:
You confusing things fella... you compared Shabazz to George Washington... yuh didn't compare Rex Lassalle and Raffique Shah. Yuh didn't do it because in no way yuh could even compare what them fellas do in 1970 to what them bunch of idiat criminals do in 1991. I might disagree with the means chosen by Lassalle and Shah but they were fighting for a much nobler/higher cause beyond themselves. They saw a situation where the politically powerful and the economically powerful sat down and brokered a de facto agreement that sought to disenfranchise the majority. They didn't like this, but continued to play the parts of good soldiers loyal to the government. Then Eric Williams start arresting labor unionists and Black Power leaders left and right and that send out red flags. When Williams was ready to send in the then "Regiment" to quell legitimate protests in the streets... they realized they had to do something and so they mutinied. Them fellas knew that the penalty for that was an appointment before the firing squad but they chose to do that in order to save the country from Williams' ego.
Remind mih again what was so wrong with the government in 1991 that the Muslimeen criminals and them had to try and overthrow it? NUFF and Lassalle/Shah are not looked upon as traitors because like Washington their cause was noble. Doh try and compare the Jamaat-al-Schupidees to them... please. Yuh only making yuhself seem uneducated when yuh do that and I know yuh not uneducated, yuh other comments over the years prove that. As for civilian victims of Abu Backside and them... Robinson was what... police? Military? The members of Parliament was military? Okay, leh we say they was 'government' and not "civilian" if that is the argument yuh want to make... what of the civilian workers in the Red House who they beat and shoot... Jones P. Madeira was what, not a journalist? Dred, Washington never shoot no government official or no journalist... yuh can't compare 1991 to 1776 or to 1970 and expect a favorable outcome.
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While this conversation has evolved, first time ever for a SW thread?, into an interesting historical discussion the fact still remains that Shabazz has never apologized for his actions. He and his cohorts held the Prime Minister at gunpoint and subsequently the country at ransom. This is what makes him a terrorist..
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Trinis always say "dat cyar happen here" and when the thing referred to happens they then modify their disbelief to accommodate itself. Shabazz and Warner as flagships of the Republic are iconic reminders of "it cyan happen". Kick back and relax, a lot more will happen.
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Trinis always say "dat cyar happen here" and when the thing referred to happens they then modify their disbelief to accommodate itself. Shabazz and Warner as flagships of the Republic are iconic reminders of "it cyan happen". Kick back and relax, a lot more will happen.
Not to mention the extreme hubris exhibited by these individuals. As well as the blatant nonchalance and disregard for the rule of law.
Speaking of Hubris, I will take 10 Patrick Mannings over one of these cretins.
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So what you saying iz, the 1970 black power movement/ coup did not produce positives that ppl of color today benfited from?
and you say king george was an oppressor, but what about the neo colonial government we had @ the time, weren't their policies one sided and oppressive as well that the ppl @ that time was forced to rise up and demand equal opportunity?
another thing while yuh @ it, what civilians did the jammat attack in 90, or NUFF attacked in 70? :waiting:
You confusing things fella... you compared Shabazz to George Washington... yuh didn't compare Rex Lassalle and Raffique Shah. Yuh didn't do it because in no way yuh could even compare what them fellas do in 1970 to what them bunch of idiat criminals do in 1991. I might disagree with the means chosen by Lassalle and Shah but they were fighting for a much nobler/higher cause beyond themselves. They saw a situation where the politically powerful and the economically powerful sat down and brokered a de facto agreement that sought to disenfranchise the majority. They didn't like this, but continued to play the parts of good soldiers loyal to the government. Then Eric Williams start arresting labor unionists and Black Power leaders left and right and that send out red flags. When Williams was ready to send in the then "Regiment" to quell legitimate protests in the streets... they realized they had to do something and so they mutinied. Them fellas knew that the penalty for that was an appointment before the firing squad but they chose to do that in order to save the country from Williams' ego.
Remind mih again what was so wrong with the government in 1991 that the Muslimeen criminals and them had to try and overthrow it? NUFF and Lassalle/Shah are not looked upon as traitors because like Washington their cause was noble. Doh try and compare the Jamaat-al-Schupidees to them... please. Yuh only making yuhself seem uneducated when yuh do that and I know yuh not uneducated, yuh other comments over the years prove that. As for civilian victims of Abu Backside and them... Robinson was what... police? Military? The members of Parliament was military? Okay, leh we say they was 'government' and not "civilian" if that is the argument yuh want to make... what of the civilian workers in the Red House who they beat and shoot... Jones P. Madeira was what, not a journalist? Dred, Washington never shoot no government official or no journalist... yuh can't compare 1991 to 1776 or to 1970 and expect a favorable outcome.
Sharks, i eh expect nothing better from yuh, and i get it, yuhs ah law man and that's where byour passion lie, fair enough.
i just want to say this though, as much as ppl may hate shabbaz and yaseen for the "dastardly ::)" thing that they did, i still maintain that it's ah thin line between an act of terror or a noble uprising, whatever the reasoning iz, it comes down to a matter of prospective.
take forinstance, you conclude that lassale and shah's intentions were honorable, but there are ppl who lived through that experience and is still alive today in trinbago who would conclude otherwise, same way you have concluded on the jammat and their attempts.
i for one have a little more knowledge on the subject bc i happened to know quite ah few fellas who was part of the jammat and still iz, and was fully involved in the mele, and from what i gather, they were very much disgruntled with ANR robinson's policy.
did you know that there was a time during the NAR's administration that the hospitals were unable to care for the sick, and ppl were dying bc of it? there was a time when there was a shortage of emergency medicine in the hospitals and a lot of ppl lost their lives in the process, there were inadequate equipment, lack of sheets, beds, and @ one time ppl were even sleeping on the floor of the POS general like in some backawall country in the baltics or in war torn africa.
in 1989 the jammat went to the UN and got help from a few nations including libya, a container of medicine and medical supplies was send to us and robinson refused to accept it, i think it came from UNICEF, and the only reason he refused with his pompus arse was bc abu bakar was the one who brokered the deal,
so ppl were sleeping on the floor of the hospital, with no sheets and no medicine, while there was containers sitting on the port with beds sheets medicine and our "beloved" prime minister refused to accept it.
ah man talk about them shooting him in his leg, they waste ah round, they shoulda put it in his dogone head. that man undid every good thing williams did to raise the standard of living in T&T.
he went to the IMF, something williams never would have even considered, so the dollar was devalued, he cut nuff government jobs to the point that every ministry was running @ a bare minimum, ppl who worked in govt jobs for yrs was retrenched with very few yrs left before they could receive a pension, as ah matter of fact, all the social programs williams implemented for sufferers he cut.
the jammat was on his long list of agendas of things to get rid of, and he had a serious hard on for the black muslim community. as we know dr williams gave the muslims that land way back in the in the late sixties early seventies, then the indian muslims moved away and left it there for the black muslim community to control.
back in 1980ies there was a lot of hostility between the police and the black muslim community, they would harass and have even known to kill muslims, one particular case was ah brother name abdul kareem, he was stabbed to death in st james on the western main road by an undercover cop and nothing came of it.
there was many confrontations between yasseen and boroughs, and only bc yasseen was a police that knew boroughs personally, and that bakar was very much in the know and could have caused problems for the murderous commissioner, that kept boroughs @ bay.
the last straw was when the government under the auspices of mr robinson himself planned to storm the jammatt with the military and kill yaseen and his key followers, but the mission was leaked to the imam and they set up a defensive which was also leaked by an informant on the inside of the jammat which lead to a stand off.
a short time later the govt came up with another scheme, the order then was to destroy the compound utterly, and the coup which was on the back burner for a later date was pushed forward.
all who runnin their mouths about terrorist this and terrorist that, don't know what de fack was taking place in the country @ the time, but instead only going by what the media divulge.
the country was in ah mess!! under the NAR trinidad experienced ah mass exodus and a serious brain drain which still affects the quality of life in dat place uptil today!
and yes, ah still waiting for the civilian attacks, as far as i know, all the women and civilian workers in the red house was released, all the places that was attacked were either the Parliament and the CID central police station head quarters which are all non civilian targets.
yes leo divines lost his life and that was unfortunate, and maybe that journalist you referred too, but they were isolated cases, and more or less collateral damage, but i doubt they were the intended targets.
BTW TTT was occupied, not bombed, and no one died there, they were only distressed, but no one was killed as a result.
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Just cool, I willa dress your comments when I return.
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Just cool, I willa dress your comments when I return.
Just take it easy pardner, i only telling you what i know of men who was heavily involved in the ting, so don't shoot de fackin messenger, hear.
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This forumn never wants for excitement. A football thread can start as " who had the hardest shot in TT football". Next thing we end up talking about sex, rum and politics. But this ened up being a serious history lesson. TT recount of 1970 brought back some serious flashbacks. 15 yrs old and trying to figure out what this means for everybody.
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Sharks, i eh expect nothing better from yuh, and i get it, yuhs ah law man and that's where byour passion lie, fair enough.
i just want to say this though, as much as ppl may hate shabbaz and yaseen for the "dastardly ::)" thing that they did, i still maintain that it's ah thin line between an act of terror or a noble uprising, whatever the reasoning iz, it comes down to a matter of prospective.
take forinstance, you conclude that lassale and shah's intentions were honorable, but there are ppl who lived through that experience and is still alive today in trinbago who would conclude otherwise, same way you have concluded on the jammat and their attempts.
i for one have a little more knowledge on the subject bc i happened to know quite ah few fellas who was part of the jammat and still iz, and was fully involved in the mele, and from what i gather, they were very much disgruntled with ANR robinson's policy.
did you know that there was a time during the NAR's administration that the hospitals were unable to care for the sick, and ppl were dying bc of it? there was a time when there was a shortage of emergency medicine in the hospitals and a lot of ppl lost their lives in the process, there were inadequate equipment, lack of sheets, beds, and @ one time ppl were even sleeping on the floor of the POS general like in some backawall country in the baltics or in war torn africa.
in 1989 the jammat went to the UN and got help from a few nations including libya, a container of medicine and medical supplies was send to us and robinson refused to accept it, i think it came from UNICEF, and the only reason he refused with his pompus arse was bc abu bakar was the one who brokered the deal,
so ppl were sleeping on the floor of the hospital, with no sheets and no medicine, while there was containers sitting on the port with beds sheets medicine and our "beloved" prime minister refused to accept it.
ah man talk about them shooting him in his leg, they waste ah round, they shoulda put it in his dogone head. that man undid every good thing williams did to raise the standard of living in T&T.
he went to the IMF, something williams never would have even considered, so the dollar was devalued, he cut nuff government jobs to the point that every ministry was running @ a bare minimum, ppl who worked in govt jobs for yrs was retrenched with very few yrs left before they could receive a pension, as ah matter of fact, all the social programs williams implemented for sufferers he cut.
the jammat was on his long list of agendas of things to get rid of, and he had a serious hard on for the black muslim community. as we know dr williams gave the muslims that land way back in the in the late sixties early seventies, then the indian muslims moved away and left it there for the black muslim community to control.
back in 1980ies there was a lot of hostility between the police and the black muslim community, they would harass and have even known to kill muslims, one particular case was ah brother name abdul kareem, he was stabbed to death in st james on the western main road by an undercover cop and nothing came of it.
there was many confrontations between yasseen and boroughs, and only bc yasseen was a police that knew boroughs personally, and that bakar was very much in the know and could have caused problems for the murderous commissioner, that kept boroughs @ bay.
the last straw was when the government under the auspices of mr robinson himself planned to storm the jammatt with the military and kill yaseen and his key followers, but the mission was leaked to the imam and they set up a defensive which was also leaked by an informant on the inside of the jammat which lead to a stand off.
a short time later the govt came up with another scheme, the order then was to destroy the compound utterly, and the coup which was on the back burner for a later date was pushed forward.
all who runnin their mouths about terrorist this and terrorist that, don't know what de fack was taking place in the country @ the time, but instead only going by what the media divulge.
the country was in ah mess!! under the NAR trinidad experienced ah mass exodus and a serious brain drain which still affects the quality of life in dat place uptil today!
and yes, ah still waiting for the civilian attacks, as far as i know, all the women and civilian workers in the red house was released, all the places that was attacked were either the Parliament and the CID central police station head quarters which are all non civilian targets.
yes leo divines lost his life and that was unfortunate, and maybe that journalist you referred too, but they were isolated cases, and more or less collateral damage, but i doubt they were the intended targets.
BTW TTT was occupied, not bombed, and no one died there, they were only distressed, but no one was killed as a result.
Just Cool "law" eh have nutten to do with it... me eh cite my education, training or profession... me eh even cite 'laws' other than to ask yuh which "law" say de military could oust a democratically elected government. So me eh really see what "law man" have to do with anything. Not that I offended, mind you... but that really eh have nutten to do with what I saying. You eh really telling me nutten I ent know, dred. I never talk about it before but I have a close family member who today exiled out of the country because of his involvement with that foolishness. Me eh talk to that man in over 25 years, last I hear he was living somewhere in Tanzania... so again, you eh really telling me nutten I doh know dred.
Now you tell TT that yuh only telling we what yuh know... nah, yuh only telling we what dem ruffians and dem tell yuh, without substantiation. Nobody saying things was easy under NAR... being 'disgruntled' about Robinson's policies or hospital care doesn't give you the right to upset the will of the people in democratically selecting their government, nor to hold the country hostage. Only when the regiment was mobilizing against the very people they was supposed to be protecting, did Lassalle and Shah stage their insurrection. That was to head off a massacre, if not of lives, then certainly of human rights. You CANNOT compare that with any of the foolishness that went on in 1991. Cannot.
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damn but is this a football thread ? Fire on the grounds of football....the man has served his punishment...now in football he strives to serve his country, judge based on his ability or incapability to operate in that arena..else many TT politician that ppl follow over the years should answer to the same questions of treason..they have done far worse than the few re-active even if incorrectly so, ppl to date.
since we delving with a bit of HIStory, why not get it from the horses pen
and how about his opinion on '90's.. he does take comments to
http://www.trinicenter.com/1970/
http://www.trinicenter.com/Raffique/2010/Jul/250710.htm
http://www.trinicenter.com/Raffique/
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I will address your statements in two parts
FIRST the IMF issue:
First of all The NAR inherited a mess and an empty treasury. They did NOT go tot he IMF...George Chambers did!
That is why the PNM lost the elections and the NAR won.
When Reagan came to T&T and asked us to join the illegal invasion of Grenada Chambers said in Parliament on 26 October 1983 (one day after the invasion): “to date, I have received no notification from any CARICOM member country of any intention to request assistance from the government of the United States to intervene militarily in Grenada nor have I been informed by any CARICOM member country that such a request had in fact been made.”
The result of that was (IMF) imposed severe, draconian “conditionality measures” on a US$100m loan to the government.
Dr. Rennie who was the PSA president was wary and critical and stated that public servants would be the one feeling the full effect and force of these IMF measures. Oil was 9 -10 US dollars a barrel and we were dead broke having squandered the first oil boom! PSA members were laid off no salary raise nutten. The fall out started under PNM due to the IMF and not Robbie who was voted in to solve the troubles.
Anyway Back to teh IMF.
Chambers in 1998 was forced to cut 10% off all civil servants pay, reduced subsidies on electricity,water, gas, bus fares, telephones. No tax breaks and athe following (from google as I could not remember all the exact details : a slash in all government subsidies to public utilities (water, electricity, telephone, bus fares), elimination of personal income tax relief and allowances, house rates, taxes fire insurance and maintenance repairs no longer allowed, reduction of corporation tax from a maximum of 49.5 per cent to a consolidation of 45 per cent, abolition of tax-free bonds, credit union/co-op shares and Unit Trust deductions, phased reduction of the Negative List, non-charitable deeds of covenant on or before 23 January 1987 not allowed, a limitation on employment expense deductions, a 100 per cent increase in postage for all mail, internal and external and whereas, in previous years, students attending the University of the West Indies did not pay any tuition, for the next two years beginning with the 1989 academic year, all students must now pay 10 per cent of their tuition costs.
I personally felt at the time that this was USA retaliation for not towing the Caricom and US line in Grenada when George Chambers exhibited great statesmanship to deny the Washington lies!
The silver fox Basdeo Panday responded to the cuts by saying: the 1989 budget “reeks of an IMF prescription” and will cause “massive retrenchment, unemployment and underemployment, resulting in a feeling of hopelessness in our young people, collapsing business in the private sector, escalating losses in private enterprises and a rising crime rate.”
All these unfortunate events led to massive strikes and civil disobedience, calling Chambers duncy in kaiso etc. they even said the cuts in civil servants pay were illegal and unilateral and they were having none of it. They called the PNM budget oppressive and detrimental to good order and breaking the backs of teachers and civil servants and small businesses. I doh know if you can recall the day of resistance, I can because I I stayed away from work and we had a fete match in Diamond Vale and my brother got engaged that same day. Nearly every civil servant stayed home that day!!!
There were rumors that the IMF deliberately manipulated their reports on T&T and the plot seemed more and more real that the Chambers government was being undermined by the USA!
So it as against that backdrop that Robbie and his NAR came into power. They inherited a morass and mess and did their best. He came to power with ell over 66% of the vote and the PNM seemed down and out with only three seats. Manning had to get rid of all the old guard and was fought by Muriel McDonald davidson for the reins of the party.
Robbie was still having to deal with the IMF and an empty treasury..oil was still historically low causing more fiscal austerity measures. The NAR was in trouble from the time they came to power. All the belt tightening further salary cuts to civil servant salaries austerity measures....again based on IMF recommendations casued support to dwindle.
The after a year in power we had the MP fighting for leadership, Robbie was pig headed and apparently from reports did not listen well and Panday and 5 old ULF MP's left the government to become independents. This led to further disenchantment and that is when Abu and he boys saw an opportunity to try they shit.
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As for the Jamaat and dem:
Randy and he flying squad were officially the hitmen for Eric Williams to deal with NUFF, thatw as Eric Brainchild from de start..he created that.
The flying squad were carrying out governmental extrajudicial killings to start and den became a law unto themselves..killing for cash, systematically eliminating drug dealing competition in an attempt to corner the lucrative, but deadly drug trade in T&T.
Right now we reaping what Burroughs sowed.
I eh know if yuh remember or ever heard of Cuthbert “Scotty” Charles, well he say he saw Burroughs unloading drugs in Carli Bay Couva heself...Burroughs beat that charge but it most probably was true.
Mervyn Cordner, Lance Lashley, Michael Lambert, Thomas Cunningham, Rudolph Leach, Gilbert Reyes and Cecil Carrington dem was big flying squad men..f**king whichever woman dey wanted...beating people up..dem used to always ketch de wanted men or dey was killed in some dramatic shoot out.
I remeber when Burroughs arrested Naiya Ali, big press conference saying dem and teddy mice Khan was not reaaly fruit dealers but coke dealers, then about 3 years later the Scott Drug Report incriminate Randy and de Flyinf squad to be dealing coke with the same Naya Ali Dole Chadee, Rama the Jammer of San Juan, and Rudolph Mills.
I find it hard that Abu had anything on Burroughs, Abu Bakr was a mounted branch police man and a low level one at that too. Bakr never get any lands from Indian Muslims on mucurapo road. the land was supposed to be used for an Islamic Cultural Centre. The land was leased to the Islamic Missionaries Guild back in 1965 I think.
Abu just move in on it...illegally too. They started to fill in most of the compound and then the government move in and take half of it. That is waht cause the coup, nothing noble. You know some of the land then Jamaat took was supposed to be a Greek Orthodox Church? Them people say nah, we eh want to go there again...lol afraid of Bakr and dem hoodlums he ahd there.
It is also true that Abdul Kareem was stabbed to death in st james Police station while under police custody!
If true that things were as bad as you making them out be, why was there not popular support for Bakr's treason? Bakr and you forgetting that T&T is a plural society with different ethnic groups and with many different religions no trini going to support some religious sect attemps to overthrow the government.
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An interesting History lesson form all contributors. Question, all things considered;
Speculating of course!
Was the coup, just an attempt for the PNM government(of that time); to wrestle power back without even that of an election which they probably would have lost due to national sentiment?
Some reaching i'd say but are there any facts supporting this?
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davidephraim, there has been much made of the FACT that both Panday and Manning had advanced knowledge of the impending coup, and as they both excused themselves form the evening session of the parliament that day...some say that bolsters the claim that they had forward knowledge.
There was also some evidence, not sure how credible that several persons were warned about trouble to come that day weeks in advance.
Who knows except the persons involved???
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so is it 4-4-2 ???
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TT i will leave it here although there's a lot of things you sugar coated and over simplified, still i will leave it there.
i know about boroughs very well, maybe better than you. i've seen borough in my yard conducting a raid on a neighbors house 6am. he and his boys was in in our yard back in the seventies with their big machine guns coming for a man who was nothing but ah half arse revolutionary with claims he had guns hidden in his house.
it's ah good thing my father was friends with half the flying squad or else they woulda blow him away when he confronted these strange men in his yard that early in the morning. my old man went out in the yard with ah cutlass bc the dogs was going crazy and rushing the intruders who turn out to be the flying squad.
as for robbie, the man was ah serious c**t, and i want to believe you was wrong about him not going to the IMF. every thing else about chambers i already knew except for him going to the IMF, i will have to look into that.
allyuh take win, maybe i was wrong about a lot of things, but i will never be wrong about revolution. trinidad need some serious revolutionaries to take that country away from crime and corruption, and yeh i was glad when yassen did what he did even though i was here already and did not know the specifics, i was still glad nontheless,
maybe if ah fella like dagga did it and succeed, it might have been a good for the country, bc look where we are now,
we full ah fackin money and the place is in worst condition than when the crown was ruling, talk bout gross mismanagement. we seriously need a jerry rawlings in trinidad and tobago.
PS: i not only know bout scotty cuthbert charles from deigo martin, i also know of map feable, irwin fontain (aka kaiba), "selo" lewie, barbie bascomb and sticks who's father i used to run errands for and keep his company in his very old age, all these men could attest to boroughs cruelty,
i also know the late winston bruce, and he was one of boroughs pallywals him and snake eye, @ least sooo they say, and all these men could attest to randolph's misgivings, and i was on hand to hear it.
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damn but is this a football thread ? Fire on the grounds of football....the man has served his punishment...now in football he strives to serve his country, judge based on his ability or incapability to operate in that arena..else many TT politician that ppl follow over the years should answer to the same questions of treason..they have done far worse than the few re-active even if incorrectly so, ppl to date.
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This is one of those threads that some ppl will view as being hijacked because the present focus for discussion seemed to have veered away from football (my reading of BM's 4-4-2 comment). However, because Mr. Shabazz is a public figure by virtue of his activities on both fronts (the events of July 1990 and football, the thread isn't in fact hijacked. Although in my view, there is sufficient basis to question Shabazz's continuation in the role of MNT coach based purely on the tactical rendition in Antigua, "Sam" :) ... posted regarding the "terrorist" element and well, here we are.
It would seem pragmatic for the TTFF to have made a public statement regarding Mr. Shabazz's association with the national game in light of persistent lingering discontent tied to his 1990 profile. Such a definitive statement should have come years ago with respect to his rehabilitation into national life. Why would this have been helpful? Among other considerations, it would have placed the issue in proper perspective for the public. It would have also provided a critical point of reference regarding his irksome comments to the Commission of Enquiry (a mere 6 months ago!) and the validity of any such rehabilitation.
However, as things stand ... as I have stated here before ... in the absence of such undertaking by the TTFF, we are merely left with the conclusion that Mr. Shabazz is destined to be a continued feature on our national football landscape ... and indeed, such a conclusion has been sharply drawn home by Lasana's observation regarding the paradoxical roles played by our dual head coaches on July 27, 1990 ... and to accept such conclusion (as is our way when no one individual asserts a leadership role to the contrary).
Once again, in its infinitely dubious collective wisdom, the TTFF has conspired to make a mockery of thoughtful people. However, let me ask this ... is this sensitivity to Shabazz more prominent now that he's at the helm of the MNT? How muted was it when he was involved with the women's program, and is that not a clear double-standard?
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TT, indulge me a little nah ... I want to challenge your response to JC ... but before I do so, lehwe make the simple stuff easy ... review the dates in what you've written ... then we can move fwd.
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As for the Jamaat and dem:
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I find it hard that Abu had anything on Burroughs, Abu Bakr was a mounted branch police man and a low level one at that too. Bakr never get any lands from Indian Muslims on mucurapo road. the land was supposed to be used for an Islamic Cultural Centre. The land was leased to the Islamic Missionaries Guild back in 1965 I think.
Abu just move in on it...illegally too. They started to fill in most of the compound and then the government move in and take half of it. That is waht cause the coup, nothing noble. You know some of the land then Jamaat took was supposed to be a Greek Orthodox Church? Them people say nah, we eh want to go there again...lol afraid of Bakr and dem hoodlums he ahd there.
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JC, you can verify this by reading the testimony given on June 8, 2012.
http://1990coe.org/ (see under Eleventh Session Transcripts). Page 6.
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However, let me ask this ... is this sensitivity to Shabazz more prominent now that he's at the helm of the MNT? How muted was it when he was involved with the women's program, and is that not a clear double-standard?
No it is not. As I stated over in the Wired868 Festival thread... Shabazz should be benefiting in no way from ANY source of government funding given his unpunished role in upsetting that very government some 22 years ago. However, for good or bad the WNT flies below the radar, and even if we were to judge them purely on merit and not public apathy, it is still very much a low-profile position. His appointment to the MNT position displayed not only a callous disregard for the lingering public antipathy towards Shabazz, in fact it very well could be interpreted as being done IN SPITE OF said lingering public antipathy... a thumbing of their noses in the face of the public.
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However, let me ask this ... is this sensitivity to Shabazz more prominent now that he's at the helm of the MNT? How muted was it when he was involved with the women's program, and is that not a clear double-standard?
And even his time with the WNT is bubbling underground and it seems may come to a head pretty soon. Former players are being looked up and questioned about Shabazz time as head coach.
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By the way just cool... if yuh wanted to use ah better example of a Yankee terrorist yuh shoulda choose John Brown ;)
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However, let me ask this ... is this sensitivity to Shabazz more prominent now that he's at the helm of the MNT? How muted was it when he was involved with the women's program, and is that not a clear double-standard?
And even his time with the WNT is bubbling underground and it seems may come to a head pretty soon. Former players are being looked up and questioned about Shabazz time as head coach.
I hear that too...sex scandal brewing!
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I hear that too...sex scandal brewing!
What sex scandal? In Trinidad there is no such thing as a "sex scandal" unless it involves little boys. Everybody else is fair game, even school girls. It will have man here who will bawl "leave that outta football, focus on de 4-4-2".
Or "dem li'l gyul and dem fass with deyself, dem brushing big man... me eh blame Jamaal if he brush some ah dem hard back gyul and dem. But de man could coach."
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Time for this thread to resurface?
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Fire SHabazz in the same manner the Jamaat fired the old police headquarters.