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Sports => Trinbago, NBA & World Basketball => Topic started by: Bitter on March 21, 2013, 07:17:30 PM

Title: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 21, 2013, 07:17:30 PM
The usual suspects quiet so far. It's a lot better with trash talk.

I thought Davidson was going to take out Marquette, but they get pips at the end. The rest of it is going to form.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 21, 2013, 08:08:43 PM
12 seed California downs 5 seed UNLV.

Cal tried hard to recreate the the Davidson game. Them fellas was taking freethows like stone masons.
Title: Re: NCAA March MAdness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 21, 2013, 09:52:13 PM
I dunno if I's one ah de usual suspects but I here, I juss doh automatically associate this board with basketball chatter... but ah here.  Didn't get to watch too many games today, de fates pick de worst week tuh drop some busy in man inbox.  Ah see de UNLV loss doh and ah watching  Mizzou get handled by Colorado St.  One thing true to form so far, teams from weak conferences having ah devil of a time... which doesn't bode well fuh Gonzaga... watch this space.

On the other end of the spectrum is Pittsburgh... dem shithongs.  Run along to de ACC now and good riddance.  Keep Syracuse spot warm fuh dem... dey eh coming right now, but soon enough.

As for my boys... ah pardna ah mine come thru in de clutch nice nice... and out ah de blue.  Two tix to tomorrow's game versus somebody name Florida Gulf State U.  Me eh care, Wells Fargo not even 10 mins from my house so I getting tuh enjoy ah March Madness game in person right in mih own back yard.  Last time I went ah game was in 1995 when ah went and watch Georgetown (with Iverson) play North Carolina in the Sweet Sixteen down in Birmingham.  Carolina had 5 McDonald's All-Americans, including Stackhouse, Wallace, Donald Williams, Jeff McInnis and Serge Zwikker.  Donald Williams is de only one out ah all ah dem who didn't play in the NBA... Zwikker was on de Rockets bench but never log ah minute, so technically he too. 

Georgetown had a nice team too... AI, Jerome "Junk Yard Dog" Williams, Don Reid, Othella Harrington and Jahidi White... all of whom played significant games in the NBA... we lost by ten, 74-64... too much Stackhouse.
Title: Re: NCAA March MAdness 2013
Post by: ProudTrinbagonian on March 22, 2013, 06:48:17 AM
Harvard?
First win in the tournament...they look good and Arizona will have their hands full

Have a feeling Marquette ain't moving further, barely beating Davidson.  BUtler will handle them, (at least my bracket hoping so)

Looking forward to see Duke today....ah have them winning it all
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 22, 2013, 01:39:32 PM
Harvard?
First win in the tournament...they look good and Arizona will have their hands full

Have a feeling Marquette ain't moving further, barely beating Davidson.  BUtler will handle them, (at least my bracket hoping so)

Looking forward to see Duke today....ah have them winning it all

Marquette could easily make Sweet 16... they won a share of the Big East regular season title and my Big East bias aside, they play extremely good defense, are near the top in the nation in getting the ball in the paint and in getting to the foul line.  Their biggest weakness is their lack of consistent outside shooting.  I think the win doesn't look impressive because you underestimating how good a team Davidson is.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: ProudTrinbagonian on March 22, 2013, 02:03:36 PM
Harvard?
First win in the tournament...they look good and Arizona will have their hands full

Have a feeling Marquette ain't moving further, barely beating Davidson.  BUtler will handle them, (at least my bracket hoping so)

Looking forward to see Duke today....ah have them winning it all

Marquette could easily make Sweet 16... they won a share of the Big East regular season title and my Big East bias aside, they play extremely good defense, are near the top in the nation in getting the ball in the paint and in getting to the foul line.  Their biggest weakness is their lack of consistent outside shooting.  I think the win doesn't look impressive because you underestimating how good a team Davidson is.

Nah, I knew Marquette would struggle against Davidson.  It will eventually come down to shooting for both Butler and Marquette....i.e  If Butler hits their shots. It will be a good game nonetheless. Butler beat them already this year, history may repeat itself

Kansas St in real trouble now against la salle
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 22, 2013, 02:37:30 PM
Nah, I knew Marquette would struggle against Davidson.  It will eventually come down to shooting for both Butler and Marquette....i.e  If Butler hits their shots. It will be a good game nonetheless. Butler beat them already this year, history may repeat itself

Kansas St in real trouble now against la salle

You should be rooting fuh Marquette too... given Cadougan from TO and his father(?) Trini.

Ah keeping mih eye on that LaSalle scoreline... shocker.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 03:22:33 PM
LaSalle takes out K-State. 63-61
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 06:03:31 PM
Two tix to tomorrow's game versus somebody name Florida Gulf State U.  Me eh care,

I wonder if Bakes know who Florida Gulf State University is now...  ::)

Only halftime though, plenty of time left for the blowout.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 06:35:48 PM
Georgetown is self-destructing. Must be March... :devil:
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: ProudTrinbagonian on March 22, 2013, 06:38:20 PM
Georgetown is self-destructing. Must be March... :devil:

This is a real shocker. Today is the day of upsets.
Still time though.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 06:41:24 PM
Georgetown is self-destructing. Must be March... :devil:

This is a real shocker. Today is the day of upsets.
Still time though.

FGCU ent looking like they care how much time it have.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
FGCU beginning to come back to earth now.

Win or lose, this is a fun team to watch.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 07:14:54 PM
Georgetown self-destructingdestructed. Must be March... :devil:

 :loser:
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: ProudTrinbagonian on March 22, 2013, 07:24:00 PM
Georgetown self-destructingdestructed. Must be March... :devil:

 :loser:

These upsets killing me today
This year supposed to be the wildest march madness in years.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: royal on March 22, 2013, 08:33:11 PM
LaSalle takes out K-State. 63-61

laSalle has a trini connection with Sam Mills. He scored 10pts today in win over K- State
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 22, 2013, 08:56:24 PM
Two tix to tomorrow's game versus somebody name Florida Gulf State U.  Me eh care,

I wonder if Bakes know who Florida Gulf State University is now...  ::)

Only halftime though, plenty of time left for the blowout.

Yeah some team that was founded in 1997.  f**k yuh rolling yuh eyes for...did you know who they was?  f**ked up game for Georgetown... FGCU deserved the win.  Shit happens... moving on.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 09:16:47 PM
Two tix to tomorrow's game versus somebody name Florida Gulf State U.  Me eh care,

I wonder if Bakes know who Florida Gulf State University is now...  ::)

Only halftime though, plenty of time left for the blowout.

Yeah some team that was founded in 1997.  f**k yuh rolling yuh eyes for...did you know who they was?  f**ked up game for Georgetown... FGCU deserved the win.  Shit happens... moving on.

Actually, VCU played them early in the season, so I've seen them play before (though they were on the other end of a beatdown).
Also, I have family in Ft Myers. If you ever down that way, check out the Edison & Ford Winter Estates.

But all that is just ole talk. After the past what? 6-7 years where allyuh keep getting knocked out in the early rounds, you shoulda learn by now to  fear respect any opponent. At this point, if allyuh matched up against University of Phoenix Online, I would be worried.

On a serious note. How much longer does John Thompson Jr keep his job?
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 10:01:01 PM
#7 Notre Dame goes down to #10 Iowa State
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 22, 2013, 10:19:20 PM
Now UCLA on the slippery slope vs Minnesota.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 22, 2013, 10:41:58 PM
Actually, VCU played them early in the season, so I've seen them play before (though they were on the other end of a beatdown).
Also, I have family in Ft Myers. If you ever down that way, check out the Edison & Ford Winter Estates.

But all that is just ole talk. After the past what? 6-7 years where allyuh keep getting knocked out in the early rounds, you shoulda learn by now to  fear respect any opponent. At this point, if allyuh matched up against University of Phoenix Online, I would be worried.

On a serious note. How much longer does John Thompson Jr keep his job?

This team wasn't ready... I won't make excuses for them, but they were picked to finish 7th in the Big East so the overachievement catch up to them in the end it seems.  Not one senior... two juniors on the team... no inside presence.  Many of my friends bitching about JT III (John Thompson, Jr. was his father)... I have no worries about him or his job.  He was named CBS sports Coach of the Year two days ago and in the running for other awards.  The problem isn't coaching, but execution... as is to be expected from a largely inexperienced team.  This is 4 years in a row we've lost to a double-digit seed, but too much is being made of that. 

Davidson- lost a close follow up game to eventual champions KU.
VCU- went to the Final Four
NC State- Chris Wright broke his hand at the end of the season and came back less than a month later to play in this game.  Not surprisingly we struggled.  Had he been healthy AND we lost, then I'd say the criticism is legitimate.  This and the Ohio loss in 2010 are the two legitimate blotches on his record if you ask me.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 23, 2013, 09:08:27 PM
Gonzaga in trouble. But everyone was projecting an early exit for them

The A10 had a bad day.
St Louis and VCU get blown out. Butler can't make the buzzer-beater.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 24, 2013, 01:35:19 PM
Iowa State just got robbed against Ohio State.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: giggsy11 on March 24, 2013, 02:15:21 PM
Common Temple!
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 24, 2013, 07:04:58 PM
FGCU is the Cinderella team this year - and so much fun to watch.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: royal on March 24, 2013, 07:42:51 PM
yuh could have $100m 1st prize in dat bracketology ting and you'll never win it because there is always a FGCU to mash up every body bracket.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 28, 2013, 09:06:03 PM
Ah tell allyuh allyuh sleeping on Marquette.  Indiana getting exposed by Syracuse... that team so overrated, same for Zeller and Oladipo as individual players.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: soccerman on March 28, 2013, 11:14:52 PM
Ah tell allyuh allyuh sleeping on Marquette.  Indiana getting exposed by Syracuse... that team so overrated, same for Zeller and Oladipo as individual players.
Well Syracuse just messed up 73.7% of 8.15 million ESPN brackets for people who had Indiana in the Elite Eight. Didn't Obama choose Indiana to win it all in his bracket?
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: soccerman on March 28, 2013, 11:20:37 PM
Tomorrow's games will be great for the neutral fan...Michigan vs Kansas, Mich St vs Duke and David vs Goliath in FL vs FGCU.....Oh there's also Oregon vs Louisville
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 28, 2013, 11:48:06 PM
I tell people Indiana wasn't going to do shit... Zeller overrated.  He's ah next Tyler Hansbrough, drive in the lane crazy crazy, create a setta contact and get bail out by the refs.  Time and time again.  See what happen when they let them play?  Next team getting found out is Duke.  Plumlee is another one limited in what he can do... once yuh figure him out.  Play him to drive left, and stay on your feet, don't fall for the up and under.  I like him because he hustles, but very overrated.  Without him Duke is a completely different team.  Seth Curry is a player though... I was shitting on his game but he might make me a liar in the end. 

Might.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 29, 2013, 08:09:02 PM
I trying to figure put why Johnson kick it out on the final play.
Say what Burke was a beast in the 2nd half.

Kansas out.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 29, 2013, 09:24:05 PM
Said the same thing on FB... right before Steve Kerr made the same observation.  Johnson is ah erratic imps anyways.  Burke earn POY tonight.  I vote for Porter but I can't even be mad if he win it.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: soccerman on March 29, 2013, 11:33:33 PM
The Blue Devils held on, big game from Seth again.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 30, 2013, 09:16:38 PM
One late comeback too many for Ohio State.
Shockers to the Final 4
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 31, 2013, 03:40:37 PM
Terrible injury to Kevin Ware in this Louisville - Duke game.
I'm not sure Louisville can continue.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 31, 2013, 03:51:49 PM
Yep. Louisville not looking sharp at all.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: boss on March 31, 2013, 03:52:17 PM
Terrible injury to Kevin Ware in this Louisville - Duke game.
I'm not sure Louisville can continue.

I still can't believe what I saw. That was insane. Best wishes to him.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 31, 2013, 03:55:39 PM
Terrible injury to Kevin Ware in this Louisville - Duke game.
I'm not sure Louisville can continue.

I still can't believe what I saw. That was insane. Best wishes to him.

I'm surprised the game just started back. Was expecting the teams to get together.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 31, 2013, 04:08:23 PM
Terrible injury to Kevin Ware in this Louisville - Duke game.
I'm not sure Louisville can continue.

Why wouldn't they be able to continue?  Louisville playing good defensive basketball... they would rue not putting Duke away though, considering that Kelly only played 8 minutes with 7 points, and Curry has been exposed with zero points.  Like many Duke "stars" before him... great system player, thriving in college, but if he had any aspirations of a pro career this should give many GMs pause.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 31, 2013, 04:09:16 PM
I'm surprised the game just started back. Was expecting the teams to get together.

??

Fuh what... ah prayer circle?  Nah, daiz only football lol
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 31, 2013, 04:22:42 PM
Terrible injury to Kevin Ware in this Louisville - Duke game.
I'm not sure Louisville can continue.

Why wouldn't they be able to continue?  Louisville playing good defensive basketball... they would rue not putting Duke away though, considering that Kelly only played 8 minutes with 7 points, and Curry has been exposed with zero points.  Like many Duke "stars" before him... great system player, thriving in college, but if he had any aspirations of a pro career this should give many GMs pause.

I expected them to play crap once the game started back - and they did.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 31, 2013, 04:26:41 PM
I'm surprised the game just started back. Was expecting the teams to get together.

??

Fuh what... ah prayer circle?  Nah, daiz only football lol

As hardback as them men look, they still young. You have to address the situation. I thought a display of sportsmanship would have been nice. But you could lol if you want.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: davyjenny1 on March 31, 2013, 04:27:51 PM
Duke vs. Louisville.

Caution! not pleasing to the eyes. Video of the Kevin Ware Broken Leg.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/ncaa-basketball/kevin-ware-injury/
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on March 31, 2013, 05:03:08 PM
Louisville take over in this 2nd half.
Good coaching job by Pitino to get them focused on the task at hand.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 31, 2013, 08:29:18 PM
I expected them to play crap once the game started back - and they did.

They did?  They rush some shots, pressed too high and get caught with some lobs... other than that they extended their lead going into the break.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on March 31, 2013, 08:39:19 PM
As hardback as them men look, they still young. You have to address the situation. I thought a display of sportsmanship would have been nice. But you could lol if you want.

I doh doubt the emotional impact that had on the players, but people on the internet acting like this is the worst injury ever. Kenyon Martin broke his leg on the court as a senior at Cincinnati, you can't really see it clear in the vid but his right leg completely snapped 5 inches or so above the ankle.

http://www.youtube.com/v/mGvBivsK73k


Similarly... about 5-6 years ago Alan Ray (from Villanova) had his eye literally clawed out of his head by Pittsburgh's Carl Krauser.  Again the video doesn't really show it in all it's gore, but dude's eye was hanging out the socket and onto his right cheek.  He mother was in the stands and nearly faint all kinda thing.  ESPN refused to show the full vid...

http://www.youtube.com/v/1GV34UbjFMY

I won't even bother mentioning Hank Gathers dying on the court 22 years ago... which shook me up as a HS yute watching it happen on TV.

Point being, there's precedent for these on the court injuries and the way it was handled.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on April 06, 2013, 05:00:07 PM
This Louisville - Wichita State game is painful to watch.
Is only defense and men pelting bricks.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on April 06, 2013, 05:50:57 PM
Louisville is getting punched in the face.
Do they have a response?
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on April 06, 2013, 06:05:24 PM
This Louisville - Wichita State game is painful to watch.
Is only defense and men pelting bricks.

Nah WSU playing out their minds... that white fella for WSU, Baker is the truth.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: theworm2345 on April 06, 2013, 07:06:46 PM
Nah, I knew Marquette would struggle against Davidson.  It will eventually come down to shooting for both Butler and Marquette....i.e  If Butler hits their shots. It will be a good game nonetheless. Butler beat them already this year, history may repeat itself

Kansas St in real trouble now against la salle

You should be rooting fuh Marquette too... given Cadougan from TO and his father(?) Trini.

Ah keeping mih eye on that LaSalle scoreline... shocker.
I don't really pay attention to this, but I saw Cadougan's name on the TV at the gym and that he was from Toronto, and I thought he must have some Caribbean roots.  Then I was reading Sports Illustrated feature on Canadian players and yes his mother Suzette Cadougan is from Trinidad (no mention of his father).
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on April 06, 2013, 07:36:53 PM
Nah, I knew Marquette would struggle against Davidson.  It will eventually come down to shooting for both Butler and Marquette....i.e  If Butler hits their shots. It will be a good game nonetheless. Butler beat them already this year, history may repeat itself

Kansas St in real trouble now against la salle

You should be rooting fuh Marquette too... given Cadougan from TO and his father(?) Trini.

Ah keeping mih eye on that LaSalle scoreline... shocker.
I don't really pay attention to this, but I saw Cadougan's name on the TV at the gym and that he was from Toronto, and I thought he must have some Caribbean roots.  Then I was reading Sports Illustrated feature on Canadian players and yes his mother Suzette Cadougan is from Trinidad (no mention of his father).

Yeah old news... mentioned elsewhere in this sub-forum.  Dad from Grenada I believe.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on April 06, 2013, 09:21:22 PM
Syracuse refuse to die, but can't get cloesr than 3 or 4 points. These final 4 games are worth the hype.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on April 07, 2013, 12:36:17 AM
Good Final Four... feel it for WSU, they ease off the throttle a little too soon.  Michigan almost do the same thing.  Rooting against the rats that desert the Big East ship, plus Pitino still borderline dirty.  Go Blue!
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on April 08, 2013, 08:07:53 PM
McGary is a beast. Gives me a Bill Laimbeer vibe.

Michigan is shooting lights out. You keep thinking they can't keep this up, but they keep going in.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on April 08, 2013, 08:49:54 PM
Heck of a game... Spike Albrecht channeling his inner Mark Price, but Hancock having none of it.  Officiating is some shit though, not championship quality.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: davyjenny1 on April 08, 2013, 08:50:15 PM
Yep! is college basketball so the high intensity is expected.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bitter on April 08, 2013, 09:48:10 PM
Hard luck dey Michigan.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: weary1969 on April 08, 2013, 09:52:18 PM
Hard luck dey Michigan.

CO-SIGNNNNN if Magic did do it in 79 and d Fab 5 in 93 y should u guys get it. Luv Rick Patino as a coach.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on April 08, 2013, 10:33:35 PM
Hard luck dey Michigan.

Behanan get robbed of MOP... Louisville deserve to win on his effort alone, but with ah assist from the refs.  No grudge here despite my bias though, have to hand it to Slick Rick, win one title for the Blue half of Kentucky, now he win won for the Red half.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: soccerman on April 09, 2013, 08:04:37 PM
Hard luck dey Michigan.

Behanan get robbed of MOP... Louisville deserve to win on his effort alone, but with ah assist from the refs.  No grudge here despite my bias though, have to hand it to Slick Rick, win one title for the Blue half of Kentucky, now he win won for the Red half.

Behanan was in beast mode, he real out muscle Michigan on de boards. Glen Robinson III couldn't box him out really, but in 2 years (if Big Dog's son is still in college) he'll be a force to reckon with when his body develops some more. In fact the Michigan team should be really good next next year, they were the youngest team in the tournament and I don't think their player's are ready for the NBA yet with maybe the exception of Burke.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: soccerman on April 09, 2013, 08:07:38 PM
The Burke block on Siva :o

Refs shoulda let dem play, clean block, entertaining. Dat was the best championship game in years!!!

Congrats to Louisville though!!! Who said the Big East wasn't the best bball conference???? Maddness!!!
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: asylumseeker on April 09, 2013, 08:55:39 PM
Didn't follow the game or the tourney, but I hoped Louisville would win ... happy fuh Shoni and Jude.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: Bakes on April 09, 2013, 11:11:36 PM
The Burke block on Siva :o

Refs shoulda let dem play, clean block, entertaining. Dat was the best championship game in years!!!

Congrats to Louisville though!!! Who said the Big East wasn't the best bball conference???? Maddness!!!

So many bad calls in that game... and every one, with the exception of McGarry's kick ball, went against Michigan.  Trey Burke sick... straight up sick.  Handles, stroke from deep, court vision... NBA ready.  Chris Paul with a more consistent 'J' at the same age.
Title: Re: NCAA March Madness 2013
Post by: soccerman on April 10, 2013, 12:28:54 PM
The Burke block on Siva :o

Refs shoulda let dem play, clean block, entertaining. Dat was the best championship game in years!!!

Congrats to Louisville though!!! Who said the Big East wasn't the best bball conference???? Maddness!!!

So many bad calls in that game... and every one, with the exception of McGarry's kick ball, went against Michigan.  Trey Burke sick... straight up sick.  Handles, stroke from deep, court vision... NBA ready.  Chris Paul with a more consistent 'J' at the same age.

Agreed. He had the will to win that night, just disappointed Belien kept on the bench so long in the first half. That game was for all the marbles, he was supposed to be on the court. Greg Anthony said it best, you can afford to take more risks with a point guard in foul trouble. Oh well hopefully lesson learned, that block though was one of de best ah see in a while, maybe because it involved two point guards with hops and it was as clean as it gets.
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