Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Flex on June 16, 2013, 01:55:39 AM
-
Shabazz looks for travel help to the US.
By Ian Prescott (Express).
Trinidad and Tobago national football coach Jamaal Shabazz will approach the United States embassy tomorrow seeking permission to travel to the United States as a member of the national senior football team for the upcoming CONCACAF Gold Cup, which runs from July 8-28 in the United States.
Shabazz has had problems travelling to the US due to his involvement in the 1990 coup in Trinidad and Tobago as a member of the Islamic Jamaat Al Muslimeen group. Shabazz said that while he is able to fly to the US and has done so in recent times, he often has to do so under certain conditions and restrictions.
The Caledonia AIA technical director told the Trinidad Express that he had approached the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to help sort out his situation ahead of the CONCACAF Gold Cup.
“They advised me yesterday (Thursday) to make an application to the United States embassy, which I intend to do on Monday (tomorrow),” Shabazz told the Express.
Meanwhile, Shabazz faces no restriction when his Caledonia AIA team travels to Central America for CONCACAF Champions League matches in Guatemala and Mexico. Shabazz is technical director of the Morvant-Laventille based Caledonia AIA club, which have qualified for the 2013-2014 Championship that kicks off on August 6. It is the second successive year the club has qualified for the competition.
In 2012, Caledonia AIA qualified by virtue of winning the Caribbean Football Union (CFU) Club Championship, but this year were only the third Caribbean qualifier after Jamaica’s Portmore FC in a play-off to join fellow TT Pro League club W Connection and Valencia of Haiti to represent the region.
Caledonia AIA are grouped with Deportivo Toluca FC of Mexico and Guatemala’s CSD Comunicaciones. Shabazz said his club has great ambitions in the competition.
“Caledonia AIA didn’t just qualify to participate, we fought hard for our place, we’ve made serious sacrifices, so I think our chances are as good as any other team this year,” said Shabazz.
According to Shabazz, Caledonia are happy to be pooled with a team from Mexico, citing that it is a good situation for them, since it will present an opportunity to play against an opposition that has a different style of play. “Cali” have faced USA’s Seattle Saunders and CD Marathon from Honduras during their inaugural run.
“Toluca has a good history, but we have a good history too. Playing at the Azteca in Mexico is exactly the experience that Caribbean teams need at this stage,” said Shabazz.
-
Sounds like the beginning of the plot for Die Hard 6
-
Haul he terrorist asss...nothing for u
-
Denied
-
I could hear my boy Gus Johnson (yes I said it) giving Shabazz (murdering terrorist) and Charles' (ex-soldier) backgrounds during GC commentary, yuh couldn't make dis stuff if you effing tried!!! Good Lord.
-
I could hear my boy Gus Johnson (yes I said it) giving Shabazz (murdering terrorist) and Charles' (ex-soldier) backgrounds during GC commentary, yuh couldn't make dis stuff if you effing tried!!! Good Lord.
Not to take any sides here but who exactly did he murder? Trinis does accept too much sh^t...Look at how much sh^t that country going through and not one violent protests or anything of the sort...Other countries they riot if the food price go up by 5 cents...Is time those in charge feel the wrath of the people. I respect all who attempt to keep the government honest.
-
I could hear my boy Gus Johnson (yes I said it) giving Shabazz (murdering terrorist) and Charles' (ex-soldier) backgrounds during GC commentary, yuh couldn't make dis stuff if you effing tried!!! Good Lord.
Not to take any sides here but who exactly did he murder? Trinis does accept too much sh^t...Look at how much sh^t that country going through and not one violent protests or anything of the sort...Other countries they riot if the food price go up by 5 cents...Is time those in charge feel the wrath of the people. I respect all who attempt to keep the government honest.
Who did he murder? You f**king serious? You either doing exactly what yuh profess NOT to do (taking sides) or you don't understand how the law works.
-
Yeah but they had a chance to take them down and they stick...Any other country they would have piled them into a van and blow their heads open. They didn't..Dookeran got told to go and form a coalition government by Abu and the man actively went trying to form a coalition government. Imagine that...That is how much backbone these politicians have. Look Shabaz still being given National coaching jobs...Imagine that..So I not going to stick out my neck and criticise ppl like Abu and his gang. They and politicians are best friends...All of them are the same.
And even after all of that, they still fraid Abu up to today.
-
I could hear my boy Gus Johnson (yes I said it) giving Shabazz (murdering terrorist) and Charles' (ex-soldier) backgrounds during GC commentary, yuh couldn't make dis stuff if you effing tried!!! Good Lord.
Not to take any sides here but who exactly did he murder? Trinis does accept too much sh^t...Look at how much sh^t that country going through and not one violent protests or anything of the sort...Other countries they riot if the food price go up by 5 cents...Is time those in charge feel the wrath of the people. I respect all who attempt to keep the government honest.
Congo, it is quite evident that you neither understand nor appreciate the seriousness of the 1990 attempted coup.
-
Maybe I don't...I am young but at the same time, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter right....Why would I call this one and that one a terrorist while the politicians cosy up to these people and reward them with contracts etc. Alluh men coming at my throat but we are calling a man who took up arms against the state a terrorist whilst at the same time this man is our national team coach. Alluh could call him a terrorist all you all want but that doesn't change the fact that he is the national team coach. So what exactly does that say about our system?
-
Maybe I don't...I am young but at the same time, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter right....Why would I call this one and that one a terrorist while the politicians cosy up to these people and reward them with contracts etc. Alluh men coming at my throat but we are calling a man who took up arms against the state a terrorist whilst at the same time this man is our national team coach. Alluh could call him a terrorist all you all want but that doesn't change the fact that he is the national team coach. So what exactly does that say about our system?
haHA!! :applause:
-
Nelson Mandela was also considered a terrorist at one time.
-
Because violent revolutions have worked so well in the past....
Anywhooo...
I say don't grant him any permission. He willfully with full knowledge of the law broke it. He committed a crime and he needs to do the time. Its a shame the only people punishing them for their crimes are not Trinidadians.
-
Nelson Mandela was also considered a terrorist at one time.
Are comparing Nelson Mandela to Abu Bakr.... Okay. I would like the point out that what took place in South Africa was a popular movement, meaning it had the support of the people. What They did in 1990 had to do with lands Williams promised them, or some selfish thing like that and they prayed on the general feeling of discontent in the country (largely a global phenomenon at the time). Did the country want a new government... yes (maybe). Were we willing to wait for a general election... yes. Did we want a violent revolution against a extremely peaceful state with a rubbish army that would run and hide at the sight of war... No. If they wanted change what the should have done was form a party, take their platform to the people and let democracy run its course. You and your friends can't decide that you should run the country when no one wants you to. This is not Haiti. There was NOTHING stopping them from forming a political party. No they were just a bunch of Bad Johns with some guns.
My opinion.
-
Maybe I don't...I am young but at the same time, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter right....Why would I call this one and that one a terrorist while the politicians cosy up to these people and reward them with contracts etc. Alluh men coming at my throat but we are calling a man who took up arms against the state a terrorist whilst at the same time this man is our national team coach. Alluh could call him a terrorist all you all want but that doesn't change the fact that he is the national team coach. So what exactly does that say about our system?
The system is shit.
-
And the system allowed them and still allows them to flourish so until they are punished or deemed enemies of the state I will laugh at all those who call them terrorists.
-
Alluh talking abt democracy and all those fancy words. Everybody wanna be rejoicing when all those arab nations having their uprisings and massive protests but when it comes to any sort of action that could result in a change of culture and behaviour back home, everybody ready to find their hole and seek out their own comforts.
The general consensus was that the NAR was oppressive etc but when somebody stood up to them "on behalf of the people' everybody turn their backs. That is trini for you. Had it been successful or even a bloodless coup you would have heard how "oppressive the NAR was etc". History is written by the victors.You can't choose which revolutions to support. A revolution is a revolution.
The most democratic nations such as the US and the Uk supporting undemocratic activity in places like Syria etc but I will stay from the safety of my computer miles away and deem an individual a terrorist? These same nations negotiating and paying millions of dollars to "terrorists" to keep peace in places like Afghanistan etc...I don't drink the coolaid...Before 911, terrorist was a word used to describe communists....I wonder what terrorist would mean in the next 20 years..
Nelson Mandela could be compared to Bin laden...One man's freedom fighter is a next man's terrorist...That is my point..!!!
-
Congo, no disrespect bredda, but the start of your second sentence said it all...and while we respect (at least some of us do) all viewpoints and opinions (until yuh prove yuhself to be ah damn ass i.e) on we lil forum, bredda yuh don't know what de ass yuh talking bout. And that's fine, you'll continue to grow and build character and it'll make you a better person.
In the mean time, stick to what yuh know bout...ah fedup putting Solomon Mcleod (et al) name on here, yeah de one dey shoot and drive over and bun-up at Police HQ, so ah wouldn't mention him again...so yeah bredda continue to laugh at we who consider them terrorist.
And ah know dis unfair eh, but save yuh responses for somebody else cause it will be (as was your other posts) wasted on me.
-
Bro so if you know they do all this to the policeman and they still walking around free and getting ahead in life then why you mad at me if I refuse to point and call them terrorists? Is the system I trying to show isn't working. The man is the national team coach. He can't even travel to the states. You couldn't make this stuff up. Governments have come and gone and no sort of closure for or revenge for the people who were killed during that time. The system is a joke and for that I refuse to call them terrorist. I'm not saying I believe in their cause etc. All I am saying is that in my world they can't take that sort of action and 20 plus years later they are being rewarded for it. If that is the case then we are all in the wrong profession. So no I will laugh at those who call them terrorists. Fix the system first...Any other country those men would have been on the run or dead. Plain talk bad manners. The system is shit and the politicians take it for joke. Look what they do to the SIA and Sautt and Opv etc. Alluh wanna call them terrorists etc but is only recently we had a commission of inquiry into the whole thing. What does that say?
-
Alluh talking abt democracy and all those fancy words. Everybody wanna be rejoicing when all those arab nations having their uprisings and massive protests but when it comes to any sort of action that could result in a change of culture and behaviour back home, everybody ready to find their hole and seek out their own comforts.
The general consensus was that the NAR was oppressive etc but when somebody stood up to them "on behalf of the people' everybody turn their backs. That is trini for you. Had it been successful or even a bloodless coup you would have heard how "oppressive the NAR was etc". History is written by the victors.You can't choose which revolutions to support. A revolution is a revolution.
The most democratic nations such as the US and the Uk supporting undemocratic activity in places like Syria etc but I will stay from the safety of my computer miles away and deem an individual a terrorist? These same nations negotiating and paying millions of dollars to "terrorists" to keep peace in places like Afghanistan etc...I don't drink the coolaid...Before 911, terrorist was a word used to describe communists....I wonder what terrorist would mean in the next 20 years..
Nelson Mandela could be compared to Bin laden...One man's freedom fighter is a next man's terrorist...That is my point..!!!
If you think as a Trinidadian you know oppression you have a lot to learn about the world. The late 80s was a hard time for almost every body in the world. And yes, people were upset but they did not support violence, especially against a state that is not violent.
I agree that the face of terrorism has changed but the definition is still the same. They used fear as a tactic to gain control and power. Do you fear your government? I know I don't. I don't think I will go missing if I write bad things about the government. I don't think the state will use unjust force against me. Do I fear some sort of insurgency that had a selfish cause... ah yeah. Do you think the nation felt comforted by the Jamaat. You say they were standing up for the people. But who asked them to. Who elected them voice of the people. Most people were afraid of them. Therefore making them terrorist.
-
It's all good and well to call them terrorists but what does that mean? What does it mean that these so called "terrorists" could take such action and walk around the country and operate freely and with impunity? I don't see anyone boycotting or protesting Radanfah's inclusion on the national team. I don't see anyone protesting Shabazz representing the very country that he sort to destabilize. Like I say we could sit from behind the comforts of a computer and call this one terrorist and that one terrorist but that that doesn't mean much. The man is still the national team coach...The system is the problem and it's the people who allow the system to be sh^t. If you feel he is a terrorist then you should boycott and protest everything he is involved in.
So the coup came about because of some dispute over the lands that the Jamaat was occupying. I also seem to remember the army being used to intimidate the jamaat at that time by also occupying those lands. So you have a government using the military to intimidate a certain sect. Guess what 20 plus years later the Jamaat still on those lands. So terrorist? Nahh....I think the real terrorists are the politicians and "leaders" who allow them to flourish and thrive under them.
-
Maybe you have point. The population have turned a blind eye to it. But generally I NEVER liked the man and I hated that he was put in charge of our football. I didn't even like him in charge of any team to be honest. It seems sketchy as hell to me that an criminal was allowed to mentor youths from an already troubled community. How do we know he wasn't filling their heads with a certain ideology (not saying that he was) but to me I would have liked to see some remorse from them. Did any of them ever apologize or show some soft of sincere attempt at making amends for past crimes. Instead they seem to have this "Do meh something nah" attitude. Just sayin
-
I don't think is a "do me something nah" attitude at all...It's all based on ideology and anyone who will take up arms against the state will never really apologise because they see nothing wrong with the action taken. Add that to the fact that the ones in authority seem to fear and respect them and you get why that attitude is bolstered. Again, if the political directorate was clean and had honest hands to show then there wouldn't be any need fear these people but they are all swimming in the same murky water and hold secrets for each other. I laugh when I hear ppl like Joseph Toney saying that he's still traumatised because 20 odd years on, he's still in politics and he still trying to sell bullsh^t to an already beaten and weary public. They didn't traumatise him enough.
-
What are the chances allyuh feel of USA giving de ole Shabazz ah visa?
I say he doh have a chance...I could be wrong though, we shall see.
-
Not a visa shall be given because unlike us a "terrorist" is more than just a word to throw around. This place so funny. Imagine he can't go to the States because of action taken in Trinidad while in Trinidad, he is the national team coach.
-
What are the chances allyuh feel of USA giving de ole Shabazz ah visa?
I say he doh have a chance...I could be wrong though, we shall see.
Agreed. If he get through I am signing up the day after because I am as clean as a whistle... just don't have anything tying me to here and I've been worried about getting rejected. But Hello if a terrorist could get a VISA then who is me...
-
he should not be allowed within 50ft of anything red, white and black. terrorist and shit coach.
-
Traitor Terrorist. Walking free. Lucky this is not Iran or China
-
Nelson Mandela was also considered a terrorist at one time.
Now you comparing Shabazz to Nelson Mandela. I could refer to you by all kinds of applicable terms... but I'll just let your own foolish words speak for themselves.
-
Congo, no disrespect bredda, but the start of your second sentence said it all...and while we respect (at least some of us do) all viewpoints and opinions (until yuh prove yuhself to be ah damn ass i.e) on we lil forum, bredda yuh don't know what de ass yuh talking bout. And that's fine, you'll continue to grow and build character and it'll make you a better person.
In the mean time, stick to what yuh know bout...ah fedup putting Solomon Mcleod (et al) name on here, yeah de one dey shoot and drive over and bun-up at Police HQ, so ah wouldn't mention him again...so yeah bredda continue to laugh at we who consider them terrorist.
And ah know dis unfair eh, but save yuh responses for somebody else cause it will be (as was your other posts) wasted on me.
Well f**king said :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
It is clear this yute doh know what de ass he talking about and with each passing utterance he reveals himself to be more of a fool. He doesn't understand the difference between peaceful resistance and violent rebellion and seeks to conflate the two as cover for his lack of understanding, education or both. It is not my responsibility to educate him, so like you I will leave him to his blissful ignorance. The only thing I will caution is that he should guard when and where he chooses to make these pronouncements in person, because there are others out there who may not be as understanding or receptive of his misinformed opinion.
-
Nelson Mandela was also considered a terrorist at one time.
Now you comparing Shabazz to Nelson Mandela. I could refer to you by all kinds of applicable terms... but I'll just let your own foolish words speak for themselves.
It is all a matter of perspective.
-
Congo, no disrespect bredda, but the start of your second sentence said it all...and while we respect (at least some of us do) all viewpoints and opinions (until yuh prove yuhself to be ah damn ass i.e) on we lil forum, bredda yuh don't know what de ass yuh talking bout. And that's fine, you'll continue to grow and build character and it'll make you a better person.
In the mean time, stick to what yuh know bout...ah fedup putting Solomon Mcleod (et al) name on here, yeah de one dey shoot and drive over and bun-up at Police HQ, so ah wouldn't mention him again...so yeah bredda continue to laugh at we who consider them terrorist.
And ah know dis unfair eh, but save yuh responses for somebody else cause it will be (as was your other posts) wasted on me.
Well f**king said :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
It is clear this yute doh know what de ass he talking about and with each passing utterance he reveals himself to be more of a fool. He doesn't understand the difference between peaceful resistance and violent rebellion and seeks to conflate the two as cover for his lack of understanding, education or both. It is not my responsibility to educate him, so like you I will leave him to his blissful ignorance. The only thing I will caution is that he should guard when and where he chooses to make these pronouncements in person, because there are others out there who may not be as understanding or receptive of his misinformed opinion.
You saying that as if they are not connected. Most revolutions started off peacefully and evolved into something more violent. Again you all coming at my throat for just voicing an opinion. I am neither for or against the action that was taken. I still don't know much about the situation after all these years to make an informed judgement. There is not much credible information out there regarding this. You all may know more about it than I do and so would have your opinion as well and I could respect that. All I am saying is that it is very hard for me to look out from the outside and see people who have taken this sort of action walking around freely and seem to thrive in our society. Something just doesn't add up there and I can't understand that. You all are so passionate about this then go and protest outside the red house and demand that Shabazz is removed from the national setup. Why don't you all go and protest for Abu to be arrested and tried for this and new laws implemented for his swift trial and possible execution. One setta of internet bullies. You claim that I am a fool then educate me.
You may have grown tired of calling the police officer's name but I don't know it. He wasn't ingrained in my memory as child as a fallen hero or anything. I barely even know he existed. That is the system for you. Shabazz is national coach but I can't recall this police officer's name by heart. I had to google this person and I still didn't find much about him. This person is all but forgotten. The ones with the power to keep his memory alive, they don't care about him. These are the same ppl rubbing shoulders with the "terrorist". So while me and you may brand others terrorists etc, that really doesn't matter because we are powerless to prosecute or enforce the law to punish such activity etc. The ones in power don't care. That is the system and country that we live in.
-
The fact that this football thread has been dominated by political events 20 years ago really explains itself. Whatever the ability of Mr Shabazz, these same discussions will take place outside T&T when this situation goes global at the Gold Cup, which it certainly will.
I have no sympathy with terrorists. Growing up in the UK when it was at war with the IRA etc was no fun. For a decade you were on alert every time you went to the capital. Of course, there were atrocities on both sides. And I wondered if the people of Boston, the IRA's biggest source of fundraising, remembered the "freedom fighters" they supported in the 70's when that bomb went off a few months ago?
I always believe that a man deserves a second chance. If you look at the decisions you made as a teenager, from the clothes you wore, your haircuts, music, even your political beliefs, many times you would shudder. I'm not comparing wearing flares to revolution, but young people are easily led.
Mr Shabazz appears to be a fairly upright member of the community who seems to want to help youths. The fact he got Guerra out of the gang lifestyle that many of his family were involved with is commendable.
So, here's the rub. In my opinion, Shabazz's past criminal record should be remembered but not mentioned when we're talking local football. However, it is a very real and present factor when we're appointing a national coach. I'm sorry to say it, but that ghost will follow him around for ever and when it's mentioned outside T&T it does not promote a positive image.
Mr Shabazz has had a very good coaching record recently, both locally and with Guyana. I feel it was a bad decision by him to accept a position with the national team. I don't know him well, but he's ok to deal with on a day to day basis and he could have, and no doubt still will, continue to win trophies locally. I don't like to see the personal attacks made against him on this site, but I can understand why they happen.
Which is why it's better not to be so public when you have skeletons in your closet.
-
Maybe I don't...I am young but at the same time, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter right....Why would I call this one and that one a terrorist while the politicians cosy up to these people and reward them with contracts etc. Alluh men coming at my throat but we are calling a man who took up arms against the state a terrorist whilst at the same time this man is our national team coach. Alluh could call him a terrorist all you all want but that doesn't change the fact that he is the national team coach. So what exactly does that say about our system?
Lissen padnah ..and lissen well being young doesn't entitle you to stupidity......
How many people died in the coup????
-
Congo, no disrespect bredda, but the start of your second sentence said it all...and while we respect (at least some of us do) all viewpoints and opinions (until yuh prove yuhself to be ah damn ass i.e) on we lil forum, bredda yuh don't know what de ass yuh talking bout. And that's fine, you'll continue to grow and build character and it'll make you a better person.
In the mean time, stick to what yuh know bout...ah fedup putting Solomon Mcleod (et al) name on here, yeah de one dey shoot and drive over and bun-up at Police HQ, so ah wouldn't mention him again...so yeah bredda continue to laugh at we who consider them terrorist.
And ah know dis unfair eh, but save yuh responses for somebody else cause it will be (as was your other posts) wasted on me.
Well f**king said :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
It is clear this yute doh know what de ass he talking about and with each passing utterance he reveals himself to be more of a fool. He doesn't understand the difference between peaceful resistance and violent rebellion and seeks to conflate the two as cover for his lack of understanding, education or both. It is not my responsibility to educate him, so like you I will leave him to his blissful ignorance. The only thing I will caution is that he should guard when and where he chooses to make these pronouncements in person, because there are others out there who may not be as understanding or receptive of his misinformed opinion.
You saying that as if they are not connected. Most revolutions started off peacefully and evolved into something more violent. Again you all coming at my throat for just voicing an opinion. I am neither for or against the action that was taken. I still don't know much about the situation after all these years to make an informed judgement. There is not much credible information out there regarding this. You all may know more about it than I do and so would have your opinion as well and I could respect that. All I am saying is that it is very hard for me to look out from the outside and see people who have taken this sort of action walking around freely and seem to thrive in our society. Something just doesn't add up there and I can't understand that. You all are so passionate about this then go and protest outside the red house and demand that Shabazz is removed from the national setup. Why don't you all go and protest for Abu to be arrested and tried for this and new laws implemented for his swift trial and possible execution. One setta of internet bullies. You claim that I am a fool then educate me.
Youth man, better you stay quiet and be thought a fool than speak and remove all doubt... Look there is some info here in this thread:
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=52564.msg844730#msg844730
There is also a book by Raoul Pantin that gives his account on the insurrection while he was a hostage, i would definitely recommend it as a good place to start. Innocent people lost their lives, a sitting prime minister was shot and a minister murdered by these terrorists, there is absolutely no justification for what took place. It is a stain on our nation's history that I believe damaged our psyche in a profound way.
As for Shabazz and that second chance talk, how can we talk about giving a man a chance when he has shown no remorse for his actions? Has he ever acknowledged his role? Has he ever asked for forgiveness from the families of the victims and of the nation as a whole or maybe I just missed it?
Outside with dem.
-
Yuh know a Shabazz was at a lime and he said that he wouldnt be interested in being national team coach cuz this would be hanging over his head. That was like 2003 or so....look at the difference time makes.
Anyhow....as you were.
-
The fact is that my generation and the ones who come after me would probably never really know the full facts of this situation because not enough was done to educate us about this incident. There is still alot of gossip involved in it. Everybody saying that he shouldn't be near the national team but he has been for years in various capacities. It is shocking to see people being so passionate against Shabazz inclusion in the national setup. I really didn't expect to see this. I thought of all persons involved, he was the one forgiven. You can call them terrorists all you want but that doesn't change the fact that quite a number of them have gone on to sit on state boards and gain national prominence which brings me back to my question how can "terrorists" achieve these sort of things in a "democratic" country. I really don't understand it. You talking to somebody who normally hears from ppl a generation up that one of the best things about the coup was the curfew parties and ducking the police etc. Howcome ppl don't feel so strongly towards those involved in the 1970 movement though?
-
Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?
-
Shabazz was an accomplice to premeditated murder.
Fok he visa.
VB
-
Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?
Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.
Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.
-
----------
Listening to you talk, you'd swear is only black people ever struggle and work hard in TT.
You black, bitter, read a few books and think you know it all.
Only black ppl work for a few shillings, only black people get paid less than white people and of course only black ketch ass in TT.
Is ppl like you Abu Bakr is prey on.
VB
-
VB the jackasshole, how this talk swing to ah black ting?? not bc i didn't mention your ppl means that i exclude them. i was mainlytalking bout what took place in "PORT OF SPAIN" yuh backsidehole!!
Yuh didn't mention them but you didn't exclude them.
Got it. :)
-
Let him go nah, this time Jack eh they to bail him out.
-
Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?
Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.
Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.
I not defending anything all I am saying is that I can't rationalise a system whereby a person can be classified as a terrorist is given such prominence and responsibility on the national scene. I am not familiar with what happen as I am sure my generation and the ones coming up below will not be either. That is not our fault. It is the responsibility of the generations before to have this part of our history clear and defined so that the ones coming after have a clear picture and idea of what take place. You all fail to realise that we went to school with these people's children, some of us are even friends etc. They sat next to our parents at teachers days and sports days.. What I know a terrorist to be is someone on the run and someone who is a declared enemy of the state etc. So until the time that these people become fugitive, I will not use that term..Criminal maybe.
-
Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?
Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.
Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.
I not defending anything all I am saying is that I can't rationalise a system whereby a person can be classified as a terrorist is given such prominence and responsibility on the national scene. I am not familiar with what happen as I am sure my generation and the ones coming up below will not be either. That is not our fault. It is the responsibility of the generations before to have this part of our history clear and defined so that the ones coming after have a clear picture and idea of what take place. You all fail to realise that we went to school with these people's children, some of us are even friends etc. They sat next to our parents at teachers days and sports days.. What I know a terrorist to be is someone on the run and someone who is a declared enemy of the state etc. So until the time that these people become fugitive, I will not use that term..Criminal maybe.
Sound like you letting personal feelings cloud yuh judgement. If it was your family who was affected, you wouldn't be talking like that. At least they have family. Some people lost that.
Regardless of what the government do or ain't do. Doesn't change what he did. Take that up with the authorities. Anyway I done talk.
-
Alluh calling these men terrorists but in the years proceeding the coup, these men sat down on numerous times with the politicians and negotiated and got stuff from the government etc. So what does that make us then?
Oh gosh yes we get it. It still doesn't change what he did. You coming off like you defending what happen in 1990, intentional or not.
Also if you not familiar or don't know what really happen, i would refrain from talking about a topic like the others have said. You yuhself say you don't really know what went on.
I not defending anything all I am saying is that I can't rationalise a system whereby a person can be classified as a terrorist is given such prominence and responsibility on the national scene. I am not familiar with what happen as I am sure my generation and the ones coming up below will not be either. That is not our fault. It is the responsibility of the generations before to have this part of our history clear and defined so that the ones coming after have a clear picture and idea of what take place. You all fail to realise that we went to school with these people's children, some of us are even friends etc. They sat next to our parents at teachers days and sports days.. What I know a terrorist to be is someone on the run and someone who is a declared enemy of the state etc. So until the time that these people become fugitive, I will not use that term..Criminal maybe.
Sound like you letting personal feelings cloud yuh judgement. If it was your family who was affected, you wouldn't be talking like that. At least they have family. Some people lost that.
Regardless of what the government do or ain't do. Doesn't change what he did. Take that up with the authorities. Anyway I done talk.
So where does the closure come from? What is stopping the people who were really affected by this from walking up to them with a gun and blowing their brains out etc...If the authorities not looking for closure or justice for the victims where is it going to come from? Just calling a man a terrorists doesn't say much..There needs to be accountability obviously and the lack of it scares me.
-
VB the jackasshole, how this talk swing to ah black ting?? not bc i didn't mention your ppl means that i exclude them. i was mainlytalking bout what took place in "PORT OF SPAIN" yuh backsidehole!!
Yuh didn't mention them but you didn't exclude them.
Got it. :)
Go fack yuhself kakhole, so what if i didn't mention them, do i have too??!!
this is about jamal shabbaz and what took place in 1990, not about indian and black accomplishments or suffering, stay in context yuh dunce ass! now fack off and leave me be yuh fackin half whit!!
and is ppl like you who sat maraj and kamla does prey on too, [ ]!
You bray on and on about black people and Butler and telling us you not talking about black people's accomplishments.
If you don't understand the concept of what a terrorist is, there is no need to exhibit your ignorance, simply use a dictionary.
Allow me to assist..
Terrorist: a person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weapon.
....please note "as a political weapon," is especially not soley or always.
In no part does it mention being "on the run."
VB
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
-
Some people just like to talk. If they thought Abu and co. were fighting for freedom (from what, I am not sure) or for them they are misinformed. They just used the general feeling of discontent to justify what they were doing.
They were a bunch of bad johns, using religion as a guise to hide under-cover nefarious activities and had been threatening the government for years as a means to get what they want. When they didn't get their Mocorapo lands (I think that was the land they wanted) they decided to show them who is boss.
If you really feel that is about working hard and a struggle then something is wrong with you. I know people in my family worked hard, saved money to buy they land they wanted. They didn't decide to start a coup. The money they used to go America and buy a trailer load of guns at a gun show (yeah they did that) could have been used to help purchase the land. But no... they felt they had the right to it.
Lets get some things straight: They weren't no freedom fighters.
And they weren't representing any black struggle... to say that is an insult to people who actually did. The black power movement in Trinidad was for both black races in Trinidad... not something bound by ethnicity. Abu them not even worthy to clean Butler shoe.
And not every revolution has to be violent. The whole idea of a state is that they state has the monopoly on violence... that is the state can use violence to maintain peace but they do so responsibly. Correct me if I'm wrong but did state use unjust violence and the Jamaat to warrant a violent retaliation. If you support citizens using violence as a negotiation tactic that you wish is to live in a failed state... because that is what a failed state is... when the state looses the monopoly on violence over certain geographical areas. You my man should move to Haiti... where you can live in a country with a violent revolution every 10 years.
-
while i was young back then, it seemed to me that a lot of ppl was having a good time looting, having limes and curfew parties etc..
- I know the upstanding citizens here were not a part of that but they were rather pissed off and looking to run down town and jostle Abu and them.
PS i not defending what those guys did, but just to note that Black Muslims included indians too.
Just another question, if a guy is hired to kill someone, does the killer alone get jailed or does the hirer pay the price as well?
-
What are the chances allyuh feel of USA giving de ole Shabazz ah visa?
I say he doh have a chance...I could be wrong though, we shall see.
Time doesn't permit me to make an energetic contribution on this thread, but I wanted to share this much: the Jamaat al-Muslimeen is not on the FTO list.
Background
Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) are designated by the Secretary of State in accordance with section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).
Legal Criteria for Designation under Section 219 of the INA as amended:
1. It must be a foreign organization.
2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)), or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)), or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.
Guidance.
-
Lock up Sbazz wid Granger and Bakr for treason...
-
Lasalle, Shah. and Barzie,how much time they did for thier participation in the 1970 uprising,so president was set
In no way am I condoning his participation in that time of infamy
I cannot accept his involvement in our natoonal teams at any level,a very sour taste still exists... :devil:
-
Lasalle, Shah. and Barzie,how much time they did for thier participation in the 1970 uprising,so president was set
In no way am I condoning his participation in that time of infamy
I cannot accept his involvement in our natoonal teams at any level,a very sour taste still exists... :devil:
I don't remember those three killing anybody.
-
Lasalle, Shah. and Barzie,how much time they did for thier participation in the 1970 uprising,so president was set
In no way am I condoning his participation in that time of infamy
I cannot accept his involvement in our natoonal teams at any level,a very sour taste still exists... :devil:
LaSalle and Shah did time for their attempted mutiny, until they were freed by an appellate court. Abu Bakr and them secured a negotiated amnesty at the point of the gun. Under duress, and with ANR Robinson bleeding to death inside Parliament it was decided to grant the amnesty, which somehow the Privy Council upheld. I don't know who "Barzie" is or what "president" was set. All of this information is publicly available for anybody with a shred of intellectual curiousity... available right here on this very website as well. It is nothing but sheer laziness, that people claiming there's no "reliable" information about what went on out in the public domain.
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
-
well it look like shabazz might not need that visa after all
-
well it look like shabazz might not need that visa after all
ENT
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
I think you were spot on. It's not the first occasion that VB geh a lil too gratuitous with that language. (I was smh @ the gall of his insertion of a smiley face in his comment).
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
I think you were spot on. It's not the first occasion that VB geh a lil too gratuitous with that language. (I was smh @ the gall of his insertion of a smiley face in his comment).
It's not the first time VB responded to such language, putting the shoe on the other foot.
Not surprisingly, you seeing what you want to see. And it probably won't be the only time either.
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
I think you were spot on. It's not the first occasion that VB geh a lil too gratuitous with that language. (I was smh @ the gall of his insertion of a smiley face in his comment).
It's not the first time VB responded to such language, putting the shoe on the other foot.
Not surprisingly, you seeing what you want to see. And it probably won't be the only time either.
Laughable charge.
I see both you and the person you were engaging as having acted inappropriately on this and on other occasions. But leave that fella out of it, and address this squarely yuhself... I've gone firmly on the record with the other poster, so the nonsense about me seeing what I want to see ... yuh could haul that elsewhere.
The fact is you have a purposeful tendency of using certain words as if innocuous in intent, but in fact, your actual intent is far from benign, innocent or merely the casual result of "putting the shoe on the other foot." Stick to trivia. I doh traffic in folly.
JC has said some horrendous things on this forum ... practically all in passion and out of emotion. Your acknowledged calculus is more disturbing. Time to start seeing the world more reflectively rather than refractively and reflexively. Cyah see how you have any moral high ground here at all, yet adventurous enough to suggest I wearing blinders? Steups!
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
I think you were spot on. It's not the first occasion that VB geh a lil too gratuitous with that language. (I was smh @ the gall of his insertion of a smiley face in his comment).
It's not the first time VB responded to such language, putting the shoe on the other foot.
Not surprisingly, you seeing what you want to see. And it probably won't be the only time either.
Laughable charge.
I see both you and the person you were engaging as having acted inappropriately on this and on other occasions. But leave that fella out of it, and address this squarely yuhself... I've gone firmly on the record with the other poster, so the nonsense about me seeing what I want to see ... yuh could haul that elsewhere.
The fact is you have a purposeful tendency of using certain words as if innocuous in intent, but in fact, your actual intent is far from benign, innocent or merely the casual result of "putting the shoe on the other foot." Stick to trivia. I doh traffic in folly.
JC has said some horrendous things on this forum ... practically all in passion and out of emotion. Your acknowledged calculus is more disturbing. Time to start seeing the world more reflectively rather than refractively and reflexively. Cyah see how you have any moral high ground here at all, yet adventurous enough to suggest I wearing blinders? Steups!
Unlike yourself I can make my point in a succinct manner.
As regards to my original response to you, there is no evidence to contradict me.
You may not approve of the response itself; however, there is nothing to suggest otherwise other than your opinion.
You are right, on certain occasions, it's not innocuous, but rather there to open the blinders of some.
You may not approve of the delivery but I simply respond to certain brands of ignorance. To quote you, it's far from benign or folly, I never preached otherwise. You have obviously taken it a certain way but what is good for the goose is good for the gander or shouldn't be had by either.
VB
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
I think you were spot on. It's not the first occasion that VB geh a lil too gratuitous with that language. (I was smh @ the gall of his insertion of a smiley face in his comment).
It's not the first time VB responded to such language, putting the shoe on the other foot.
Not surprisingly, you seeing what you want to see. And it probably won't be the only time either.
Laughable charge.
I see both you and the person you were engaging as having acted inappropriately on this and on other occasions. But leave that fella out of it, and address this squarely yuhself... I've gone firmly on the record with the other poster, so the nonsense about me seeing what I want to see ... yuh could haul that elsewhere.
The fact is you have a purposeful tendency of using certain words as if innocuous in intent, but in fact, your actual intent is far from benign, innocent or merely the casual result of "putting the shoe on the other foot." Stick to trivia. I doh traffic in folly.
JC has said some horrendous things on this forum ... practically all in passion and out of emotion. Your acknowledged calculus is more disturbing. Time to start seeing the world more reflectively rather than refractively and reflexively. Cyah see how you have any moral high ground here at all, yet adventurous enough to suggest I wearing blinders? Steups!
Unlike yourself I can make my point in a succinct manner.
As regards to my original response to you, there is no evidence to contradict me.
You may not approve of the response itself; however, there is nothing to suggest otherwise other than your opinion.
You are right, on certain occasions, it's not innocuous, but rather there to open the blinders of some.
You may not approve of the delivery but I simply respond to certain brands of ignorance. To quote you, it's far from benign or folly, I never preached otherwise. You have obviously taken it a certain way but what is good for the goose is good for the gander or shouldn't be had by either.
VB
I promised my self never to respond to anything from you ever again, not bc i have disdain for you, but bc you are without understanding, and you are driven by racist intent based on your up bringing which you seem to have a hard time ridding your self of, but nonetheless i will say what is necessary and leave you to your own demise.
i was wrong for using the C word, and i will like to apologize to all the east indian members who have taken offense, i was wrong, even though my intent for using the word was to show this guy how racist he truly is, and that he's still stuck in the 1800s, but i had absolutely no malicious intentions.
to whom this may concern, if you are truly worldly and evolved as you pretend to be, then when you are insulted in a way that is "ignorant" according to you, then the upright thing to do in that instance would be to take the higher road and be graceful under fire, but since you did not, then in the eyes of the on lookers you may appear just as bad, or even worst than the agitator.
and it's very clear that you are not evolved enough to be the bigger man, so i will bid you a pleasant day. tschus.
-
I could hear my boy Gus Johnson (yes I said it) giving Shabazz (murdering terrorist) and Charles' (ex-soldier) backgrounds during GC commentary, yuh couldn't make dis stuff if you effing tried!!! Good Lord.
Not to take any sides here but who exactly did he murder? Trinis does accept too much sh^t...Look at how much sh^t that country going through and not one violent protests or anything of the sort...Other countries they riot if the food price go up by 5 cents...Is time those in charge feel the wrath of the people. I respect all who attempt to keep the government honest.
Are you that uniformed? Where did the riots occur for a price increase of 5 cent? Did you make that up or is this just another exaggeration? And you really think that in this age of terrorism, a participant or collaborator in a murderous coup shouldn't be taken seriously? Lastly, it is a lesson that we are responsible for our actions, and that the past often comes back to haunt us.
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
I think you were spot on. It's not the first occasion that VB geh a lil too gratuitous with that language. (I was smh @ the gall of his insertion of a smiley face in his comment).
It's not the first time VB responded to such language, putting the shoe on the other foot.
Not surprisingly, you seeing what you want to see. And it probably won't be the only time either.
Laughable charge.
I see both you and the person you were engaging as having acted inappropriately on this and on other occasions. But leave that fella out of it, and address this squarely yuhself... I've gone firmly on the record with the other poster, so the nonsense about me seeing what I want to see ... yuh could haul that elsewhere.
The fact is you have a purposeful tendency of using certain words as if innocuous in intent, but in fact, your actual intent is far from benign, innocent or merely the casual result of "putting the shoe on the other foot." Stick to trivia. I doh traffic in folly.
JC has said some horrendous things on this forum ... practically all in passion and out of emotion. Your acknowledged calculus is more disturbing. Time to start seeing the world more reflectively rather than refractively and reflexively. Cyah see how you have any moral high ground here at all, yet adventurous enough to suggest I wearing blinders? Steups!
Unlike yourself I can make my point in a succinct manner.
As regards to my original response to you, there is no evidence to contradict me.
You may not approve of the response itself; however, there is nothing to suggest otherwise other than your opinion.
You are right, on certain occasions, it's not innocuous, but rather there to open the blinders of some.
You may not approve of the delivery but I simply respond to certain brands of ignorance. To quote you, it's far from benign or folly, I never preached otherwise. You have obviously taken it a certain way but what is good for the goose is good for the gander or shouldn't be had by either.
VB
It's correct, honorable and appropriate to educate the forum on hypocrisy or double-standards regarding the experience of citizens of Indian descent in Trinidad & Tobago. I don't support woeful tales of comparative misery such that one ethnic experience has a legacy of more significant detriment than the other. Leh me tell yah, I understand that a portion of the historical discourse in T&T has been painted in a way that marginalized Indo-T&T. That is historical reality.
I not on the use of pejorative language. I doh support nutten that will rivet ethnic divides. Iz high time you subscribe to that view in word and deed. Yuh cyah use that kind of language selectively. Yuh either support it or you don't. Period.
What ah trying to tell yah, is that when yuh want to bring attention to issues of this nature that concern you ... pelting ethnically insensitive big rocks not going to get yuh progress.
I doh have to contradict you because your response concedes that my initial comment to you was rooted in truth. Plus, just because you repeat a word that has been used pejoratively to describe a group with which you identify, doh mean that it's okay to sling a parallel pejorative (whatever your intent).
Dichotomizing the world into African and Indian, in a conversation with JC will not produce universal truth and cannot produce universal truth ... because that is not his lens of priority and because he has a valid truthful experience too. The least allyuh could do is use this as a mutually respectful basis of departure for future discussions of this nature ... rather than as an arrival at an unproductive final conclusion.
Aside from that, you end up projecting biases in your choice of words ... not necessarily because yuh racist, but because you have a historical frustration with what decades of an African-focused cultural narrative in Trinidad & Tobago has produced. Ultimately that deletes from the sensitivity and education yuh want to share, and creates at minimum an inference of prejudice.
Yuh right, not succinct ... exhaustive. Take heed.
-
Wat happen, moderators sleepin or wat? SMDH!
Like dey wake up.
Somebody edit my post :)
SMH!
Shake harder...
I think you were spot on. It's not the first occasion that VB geh a lil too gratuitous with that language. (I was smh @ the gall of his insertion of a smiley face in his comment).
It's not the first time VB responded to such language, putting the shoe on the other foot.
Not surprisingly, you seeing what you want to see. And it probably won't be the only time either.
Laughable charge.
I see both you and the person you were engaging as having acted inappropriately on this and on other occasions. But leave that fella out of it, and address this squarely yuhself... I've gone firmly on the record with the other poster, so the nonsense about me seeing what I want to see ... yuh could haul that elsewhere.
The fact is you have a purposeful tendency of using certain words as if innocuous in intent, but in fact, your actual intent is far from benign, innocent or merely the casual result of "putting the shoe on the other foot." Stick to trivia. I doh traffic in folly.
JC has said some horrendous things on this forum ... practically all in passion and out of emotion. Your acknowledged calculus is more disturbing. Time to start seeing the world more reflectively rather than refractively and reflexively. Cyah see how you have any moral high ground here at all, yet adventurous enough to suggest I wearing blinders? Steups!
Unlike yourself I can make my point in a succinct manner.
As regards to my original response to you, there is no evidence to contradict me.
You may not approve of the response itself; however, there is nothing to suggest otherwise other than your opinion.
You are right, on certain occasions, it's not innocuous, but rather there to open the blinders of some.
You may not approve of the delivery but I simply respond to certain brands of ignorance. To quote you, it's far from benign or folly, I never preached otherwise. You have obviously taken it a certain way but what is good for the goose is good for the gander or shouldn't be had by either.
VB
I promised my self never to respond to anything from you ever again, not bc i have disdain for you, but bc you are without understanding, and you are driven by racist intent based on your up bringing which you seem to have a hard time ridding your self of, but nonetheless i will say what is necessary and leave you to your own demise.
i was wrong for using the C word, and i will like to apologize to all the east indian members who have taken offense, i was wrong, even though my intent for using the word was to show this guy how racist he truly is, and that he's still stuck in the 1800s, but i had absolutely no malicious intentions.
to whom this may concern, if you are truly worldly and evolved as you pretend to be, then when you are insulted in a way that is "ignorant" according to you, then the upright thing to do in that instance would be to take the higher road and be graceful under fire, but since you did not, then in the eyes of the on lookers you may appear just as bad, or even worst than the agitator.
and it's very clear that you are not evolved enough to be the bigger man, so i will bid you a pleasant day. tschus.
I never assumed any pretense of being worldly or evolved.
However, I agree with you, I should take the high road. And no, I am not the bigger man.
I am far from a Ghandi or Mandela, although it is something to aspire to.
You and I may not be on the same page. But it takes some class and guts to admit you were wrong and to apologize.
Likewise, I do the same. If I were the bigger man, I would have found a more evolved way to respond.
VB
-
He eh have to worry about VISA again.
This was de real reason he did not accept de assistant job.
-
He should never get a visa nor should never been given the opportunity to coach T&T. Also any monies owed to him should go towards paying for his part in the destruction of public and private business as well as towards the families murdered by these assholes.
May their names and their form of religion be always spat upon.
-
Haha you hitting hard boy