Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum

Sports => Football => Topic started by: Football supporter on July 20, 2013, 07:14:03 PM

Title: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Football supporter on July 20, 2013, 07:14:03 PM
I'm betting that many of the guys on the field tonight won't be in Hart's next squad.

Hart has a clear mandate: Qualify for 2018.

That's 5 years away. He will want to form a nucleus of 35 players who are currently under the age of 25. He has to assume that T&T will be at the WC2018.

So he will try out a lot of guys between 18 and 25. He won't worry about losing friendlies.

Some of tonights squad will be in the mix in the qualifying faze, but many such as Glen, Edwards, Birchall etc may have played their last game.

This is a very important 2 years for T&T and if Hart knows his stuff, I feel that given a decent WC draw, we will be there in 2018.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Socapro on July 20, 2013, 07:20:03 PM
We need to get the right balance though as the T&T public needs to see decent football and a few victories from our national senior team against decent opponents to turn them back onto T&T football in mass but the process of turning them back on has already begun!  :beermug:
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Cocorite on July 20, 2013, 07:21:49 PM
You know something we don't know about the longevity of Hart's reign?

I certainly hope he is kept on board for the long term.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: D.H.W on July 20, 2013, 07:25:59 PM
So it goes . but some seniors will still hang around to guide the youths. Can't be a wholesale change over
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Dynamite Warrior on July 20, 2013, 07:43:19 PM
I agree with Socapro, we did a world of good for our football by playing well in what is widely seen as a "meaningless" gold cup. I think there are plenty of goals we can set for ourselves before 2018. We need to return to the next gold cup,make the knockout round of that, qualify for the copa america 2016. All of those things happen before the 2018 World Cup. It is important to find the right balance of players or else youll end up like Canada was in this Gold Cup. Now i do agree with the fact that Glenn, Birchall, Theobald and Edwards have probably seen their last days with the team but i do think that older players such as Jones, Boucard and Hoyte can continue to contribute to this team even though they are over 25.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Cocorite on July 20, 2013, 07:48:15 PM
I agree with Socapro, we did a world of good for our football by playing well in what is widely seen as a "meaningless" gold cup. I think there are plenty of goals we can set for ourselves before 2018. We need to return to the next gold cup,make the knockout round of that, qualify for the copa america 2016. All of those things happen before the 2018 World Cup. It is important to find the right balance of players or else youll end up like Canada was in this Gold Cup. Now i do agree with the fact that Glenn, Birchall, Theobald and Edwards have probably seen their last days with the team but i do think that older players such as Jones, Boucard and Hoyte can continue to contribute to this team even though they are over 25.

Yuh better believe it.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: royal on July 20, 2013, 08:14:22 PM
dis is my take, I've said it over and over,Trinidad and Tobago do not have de luxury of excluding men because of age,where dey born,where dey grow up or any other means. WE TOO SMALL. Yes it will be nice if we team is made up of some young guns but we will be foolish to exclude men because of age. If at 40 you is still de best,yuh still have to represent.Look we just had a 62 year old man who won the men national table tennis championships,he beat a 14yr old in de finals and yuh know what, he is part of de national team to de Caribbean championships yuh cyar exclude him.
if we have young guns better or even the same level as the older guys no problem but please doh put raw unproven men out there because of their age to embarrass we AGAIN,cyar take dat.           
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Dinner Mints on July 20, 2013, 08:15:57 PM
If at 40 you is still de best,yuh still have to represent.
How I see it.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: 100% Barataria on July 20, 2013, 08:17:51 PM
Sense Royal, doh tink DW is recommending "disposing" of anyone who clearly still have it in the twiglight of his years, his salient point is that we have to build for the future.  I for one salivating when I think we still have Peltire, Guerra, Hector, Bateau, Primus and others who were not even on this roster for one reason or another.  We need to blood some young strikers though, lacking in this department, elsewhere looks like we have some depth....
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: OutsideMan on July 20, 2013, 08:25:36 PM
I agree.  Though it'll be great to 'go-younger', if a player still has what it takes to succeed at this level, then they must be considered.  You can't measure talent, commitment, and endurance, purely by one's age.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Trini _2022 on July 21, 2013, 06:10:25 AM
dis is my take, I've said it over and over,Trinidad and Tobago do not have de luxury of excluding men because of age,where dey born,where dey grow up or any other means. WE TOO SMALL. Yes it will be nice if we team is made up of some young guns but we will be foolish to exclude men because of age. If at 40 you is still de best,yuh still have to represent.Look we just had a 62 year old man who won the men national table tennis championships,he beat a 14yr old in de finals and yuh know what, he is part of de national team to de Caribbean championships yuh cyar exclude him.
if we have young guns better or even the same level as the older guys no problem but please doh put raw unproven men out there because of their age to embarrass we AGAIN,cyar take dat.           

except for roger miller how many other players carry a team at 40  if we depend on a 40 year old we going to where
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: kounty on July 21, 2013, 06:26:52 AM
I think we have a certain nucleus in place and in the near future (< 3yrs) we should work with these players and target foreign nationals with trini links for certain missing positions. I like what Cyrus and J Jones could potentially bring to the table - if we could form a strategy to have them systematically take on the opposition in their half...  I think we need to target one or two center backs  maybe even just to help improve Power and Mitchell's game. I don't like Abu Bakr unless we in a pinch. The midfield is okay, and I like how Hart is developing them to perform midfield duties outside of their perceived strengths - Daniel in a more defensive role etc. To me it looks like he is going for 4 well rounded midfielders (attack & defense). we could use a couple more impactful substitute forwards.
I mostly agree with the 1st post. It might also be a good time to start changing the old guard, but I still think they have a bit to offer and can be phased out.  Carlos can be reinvented as a super sub for years to come strictly running at defenders (esp since he plays at a higher club level than most). Glenn good for a 1st half while his replacement is groomed for the next 10 games. Theobald could be given the ultimatum of drastically improiving his offensive game or retiring (and i know for some reason he was made the scapegoat for all the ills of T&T football recently)..
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Football supporter on July 21, 2013, 06:39:58 AM
I have to admit, I'm in a quandary as to how Hart should move forward.

While I strongly believe that creating a young squad ready for 2018 is essential, in order to move players to decent leagues, we need to get into - and remain - in the top 70.

Friendlies in 2014 are unimportant and it doesn't matter if we lose, as long as we develop a strong squad for the 2018 qualifiers. But, again, domestically, winning is important.

For the qualifiers and Gold Cup, we still need experience and KJ a few other can provide that. I would like to see Glen on the bench as he can come on at 70 minutes and win free kicks and pens and his fresh legs against a tired defence could be a lethal weapon. Plus, to me, he is our best at playing the lone striker role and our youngsters could learn from him if he's in the squad.

We must give Hart the latitude to develop and learn about his players and try to put results second for a while, as much as we like (and need) to win.
Title: The future of national team seem bright when you consider
Post by: sub1 on July 21, 2013, 06:44:27 AM
that the entire back four yesterday are our reserves. No diss to these brave warriors, it just shows that we have depth and continue to build. Our starting back four would, with all things being equal, would be Hoyte, mitchell, Primus and Jones. Our midfield was also made up of reserves and some who wont be around for 2018. Our midfield should look like GUerra, Hyland Peltier molino Hector and dont forget Paul. Our Strikers would be Jones and I expect that within the next 3-4 years two or three would raise their hands to be alongside Jones.

It looks bright. I am happy again. I am totally convinced that JW should pay a price for abusing our football so badly.
Title: Re: The future of national team seem bright when you consider
Post by: D.H.W on July 21, 2013, 06:49:11 AM
Jack time will come. Sometimes People take longer to get what they deserve. It already start for him
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: coache on July 21, 2013, 07:51:59 AM
Stephen Hart should now take a hard look at the youths on the various younger teams ..his philosophy now should be to play more attacking football like Mexico,Brazil,Haiti,Panama, and others..to implement such a style we have to look for and encourage the forwards who like to penetrate. It seems as though for some reason we have gone to using "back to the goal"" forwards which isn't bad because they can do it but we need to have runners.I can think about two players..Shemar Ravello and Yafeu Rougier.
Not only should he be watching the Pro league and foreign leagues but the College Leagues and High school InterCol.
We have to be bold and brave and willing to take a chance on playing with 3 forwards..Right now 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 is too defensive for us because we spend to much time without possession which not only causes physical exhaustion but also mental.
We have Kenwyne Jones who is the spearhead to our attack we need three penetrative forwards for him to knock down balls to.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: coache on July 21, 2013, 08:11:03 AM
I know Stephen Hart went Benedict's and he would have seen our National team play in the early 70's..I know he is aware of the type of forwards I am referring to..Bert Neptune was also that type of forward.
Leroy Deleon told me that when Benedict's had sports day its was a toss up who would win the 100 yd dash because he ,Jan Steadman, Archibald, David ,all would run the 100yd below 11secs.
I saw Leonson run in Sports Day and ran the 100m in 11secs flat at 16yrs.
These are the type of players we need up front.
I have a tape of a final btwn Miami and Los Angeles NASL final 1974 ..Archibald and David playing for Miami..and all those two were doing was running at the defence..all game long.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Deeks on July 21, 2013, 08:11:24 AM
coache, you sounding like ah coach. I thought SH went Sando Tech. I might wrong?
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: palos on July 21, 2013, 08:59:50 AM
coache, you sounding like ah coach. I thought SH went Sando Tech. I might wrong?

SH went Benedicts

He played club football for Hurricanes

When talking about the best T&T players....players like De Leon, Latas, Yorke etc names would come up.  SH would swear one of de best he ever see is Peter Lewis, a name not too many of this generation familiar with.

Coache brought up de name Bert Neptune.....SH was a big fan of Berta....in his day one of the deadliest strikers we ever produce.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Dinner Mints on July 21, 2013, 09:14:32 AM
dis is my take, I've said it over and over,Trinidad and Tobago do not have de luxury of excluding men because of age,where dey born,where dey grow up or any other means. WE TOO SMALL. Yes it will be nice if we team is made up of some young guns but we will be foolish to exclude men because of age. If at 40 you is still de best,yuh still have to represent.Look we just had a 62 year old man who won the men national table tennis championships,he beat a 14yr old in de finals and yuh know what, he is part of de national team to de Caribbean championships yuh cyar exclude him.
if we have young guns better or even the same level as the older guys no problem but please doh put raw unproven men out there because of their age to embarrass we AGAIN,cyar take dat.           

except for roger miller how many other players carry a team at 40  if we depend on a 40 year old we going to where
Nobody is literally expecting a 40-year-old to be our best option. That would be a sad state of affairs. It's hyperbole. Point being made is the best player plays regardless of age. If a 22-year-old cyah bring it as good as the 32-year-old, den I doh want him playing just because he young. Let him watch de old man from de bench and learn how to step his game up.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: royal on July 21, 2013, 09:30:25 AM
dis is my take, I've said it over and over,Trinidad and Tobago do not have de luxury of excluding men because of age,where dey born,where dey grow up or any other means. WE TOO SMALL. Yes it will be nice if we team is made up of some young guns but we will be foolish to exclude men because of age. If at 40 you is still de best,yuh still have to represent.Look we just had a 62 year old man who won the men national table tennis championships,he beat a 14yr old in de finals and yuh know what, he is part of de national team to de Caribbean championships yuh cyar exclude him.
if we have young guns better or even the same level as the older guys no problem but please doh put raw unproven men out there because of their age to embarrass we AGAIN,cyar take dat.           

except for roger miller how many other players carry a team at 40  if we depend on a 40 year old we going to where
Nobody is literally expecting a 40-year-old to be our best option. That would be a sad state of affairs. It's hyperbole. Point being made is the best player plays regardless of age. If a 22-year-old cyah bring it as good as the 32-year-old, den I doh want him playing just because he young. Let him watch de old man from de bench and learn how to step his game up.

My point exactly if a 40 yr old still our best option something  wrong but doh pick a yute because he young.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Rodney on July 21, 2013, 09:42:07 AM
Don't agree with the theory of simply getting rid of players based on their age, if you good enough, yuh good enough. T&T too small to be doing such things. I agree you shouldn't build a team around ageing veteran's, there should be a focus on building a core of talented younger players but there should always be a place for the elder statesmen. Especially if their game is as good or better than the youngsters. Experience combined with ability counts a lot; in all sports.

Latapy and Yorke are the two most obvious examples. To dump specific players simply because there is a belief that they will be too old for a future tournament.....nah ah doh buy it. My motto is 'Always keep your options open'.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Jah Gol on July 21, 2013, 11:34:59 AM
Pick the best players eligible to play , whether they're 17 or 34, whether they were born in Belmont or Brixton . This is an area where we can't follow international best practices because our peculiar situation where :

1)we have a very small population
2)We have diaspora around the world who may add value.

Accordingly the association as any other must take stepsto improve player development through better training of administrators, coaches ,trainers and referees.

Additionally scouting has to be seen as a critical area function for the association. There has to be a pathway for interested players to assessed and selected on national teams. Obviously they could use the internet to help but there also should be a presence in those countries.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: King Deese on July 21, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
Yo FS, food for thought. Please, forgive my ignorance, and that is because I don't  know everything. I am by no means totally ignorant, but I thought I would pick your brain because you are much closer to the footballing action at home than I am and you know what you are talking about.

What up and coming young player in TnT fits the mold of a playmaker?. Let me give you an idea of what I am referring to.

A playmaker operates in midfield or advanced midfield and dictates the tempo of a match with his passing and dribbling skills. I am not talking about your wide playmakers like a Ronaldo or Robben. I am talking central mid. The dictator, if you will.

Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, David Silva, Wesley Sneijder, Fabregas, Luka Modric, Samir Nasri, Kaka, Bastian Schweinsteiger. Just to name a few.

Any young player/s come to your mind that fits that mold. Indulge me, my learned friend.
 
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Football supporter on July 21, 2013, 06:53:33 PM
Yo FS, food for thought. Please, forgive my ignorance, and that is because I don't  know everything. I am by no means totally ignorant, but I thought I would pick your brain because you are much closer to the footballing action at home than I am and you know what you are talking about.

What up and coming young player in TnT fits the mold of a playmaker?. Let me give you an idea of what I am referring to.

A playmaker operates in midfield or advanced midfield and dictates the tempo of a match with his passing and dribbling skills. I am not talking about your wide playmakers like a Ronaldo or Robben. I am talking central mid. The dictator, if you will.

Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, David Silva, Wesley Sneijder, Fabregas, Luka Modric, Samir Nasri, Kaka, Bastian Schweinsteiger. Just to name a few.

Any young player/s come to your mind that fits that mold. Indulge me, my learned friend.
 

Well, I don't see a lot of other clubs' players, but the first player that sprung to mind is Darren Mitchell. He can sprint like an Olympic athlete (literally), he's great going forward and he's learning his defensive duties well. I would describe him more as a "Paul Scholes" box to box type player, but he has a good touch and control.

I also think that Daniel Cyrus could be a better midfielder than a defender. Not sure if he could run with the ball and accurately pass under pressure, but I feel he has more to his game. Seon Power is also a defender who could play an attacking role, in my view.

But then, I always view the game through English eyes, so my idea of a play maker is different than most Trinis. I feel we pass the ball too much and this allows the defence time to organise. We will never be Spain, because we do not have the depth of talent. Our best bet against the Mexicans, Americans, Dutch, Spanish etc would be to play the game that we're naturally good at. Make the transition at lightning pace. Fast, strong, powerful. We breed big, strong fast guys, but we make then play short passes along the ground.

In the Mexican game, the first 30 minutes saw the Mexicans struggling as we hammered forward. Once we let them slow the pace, we had to defend on our 18 yard box.

Take the game to them. Fast wingers, big centre forwards. Intimidate, jostle, unsettle. Thats why KJ and Glen do so well, they play the English way. It's not total football, in fact, it's often total chaos, but if we perfect it, we could one day win a Gold Cup.

Sorry it's not the answer you wanted!! 
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: davyjenny1 on July 21, 2013, 07:10:52 PM
Yo FS, food for thought. Please, forgive my ignorance, and that is because I don't  know everything. I am by no means totally ignorant, but I thought I would pick your brain because you are much closer to the footballing action at home than I am and you know what you are talking about.

What up and coming young player in TnT fits the mold of a playmaker?. Let me give you an idea of what I am referring to.

A playmaker operates in midfield or advanced midfield and dictates the tempo of a match with his passing and dribbling skills. I am not talking about your wide playmakers like a Ronaldo or Robben. I am talking central mid. The dictator, if you will.

Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, David Silva, Wesley Sneijder, Fabregas, Luka Modric, Samir Nasri, Kaka, Bastian Schweinsteiger. Just to name a few.

Any young player/s come to your mind that fits that mold. Indulge me, my learned friend.
 

Well, I don't see a lot of other clubs' players, but the first player that sprung to mind is Darren Mitchell. He can sprint like an Olympic athlete (literally), he's great going forward and he's learning his defensive duties well. I would describe him more as a "Paul Scholes" box to box type player, but he has a good touch and control.

I also think that Daniel Cyrus could be a better midfielder than a defender. Not sure if he could run with the ball and accurately pass under pressure, but I feel he has more to his game. Seon Power is also a defender who could play an attacking role, in my view.

But then, I always view the game through English eyes, so my idea of a play maker is different than most Trinis. I feel we pass the ball too much and this allows the defence time to organise. We will never be Spain, because we do not have the depth of talent. Our best bet against the Mexicans, Americans, Dutch, Spanish etc would be to play the game that we're naturally good at. Make the transition at lightning pace. Fast, strong, powerful. We breed big, strong fast guys, but we make then play short passes along the ground.

In the Mexican game, the first 30 minutes saw the Mexicans struggling as we hammered forward. Once we let them slow the pace, we had to defend on our 18 yard box.

Take the game to them. Fast wingers, big centre forwards. Intimidate, jostle, unsettle. Thats why KJ and Glen do so well, they play the English way. It's not total football, in fact, it's often total chaos, but if we perfect it, we could one day win a Gold Cup.

Sorry it's not the answer you wanted!! 

I share some of your sentiments. Really.........
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: davyjenny1 on July 21, 2013, 07:13:15 PM
To make our mark in Concacaf we need to identify with-in the depths that there is a need to standardize everything that a football manager must assess, the quality and talent of players that are available to build and to blend a pattern around that.There is a need to stabilise and establish our pattern of play with specific features of our territory including teams with-in the national fold with an objective in mind "sports oriented intellectual" to ensure and to identify with our culture with recognation for success nationwide. Always maintained the approach to the game dictated by the quality of the talent available infuse it with the central elements of our game as they see fit clearly with the intent for a measure of successful results with-in our style of play.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: AB.Trini on July 21, 2013, 07:39:04 PM
very impressed by the humility and the desire to learn by Mr.Charles. As a matter of fact in the formative stages of the Caribbean Cup prior to another co coach joining him, I thought he had the younger players responding well and the team was actually holding their own. I see this coach with a future in developing local talent and grooming players for our national teams.

I hope that these coaches are part of a restructuring program working with our U-15-, U17,U20 and U23 team.Not only the players but also the coaches. Mr.Hart having being familiar with the Canadian regional and provincial programs could probably assist in structuring regional programs on the islands and reframing the game at the college level. I think with the assistance of government funding, initiatives like this could benefit greatly than a band aid approach  of spending millions to bring a Shaq O Neil for a basketball token appearance and prize money and resulting in no sustainable  improvement in the social fabric or game in TnT. Our performance in this tournament could serve as the catalyst to move our program in a new direction. I believe that we have the personnel from the new administrators to the coaching staff to forge ahead for a rebirth of our football legacy.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: lefty on July 21, 2013, 07:50:04 PM
Yo FS, food for thought. Please, forgive my ignorance, and that is because I don't  know everything. I am by no means totally ignorant, but I thought I would pick your brain because you are much closer to the footballing action at home than I am and you know what you are talking about.

What up and coming young player in TnT fits the mold of a playmaker?. Let me give you an idea of what I am referring to.

A playmaker operates in midfield or advanced midfield and dictates the tempo of a match with his passing and dribbling skills. I am not talking about your wide playmakers like a Ronaldo or Robben. I am talking central mid. The dictator, if you will.

Xavi Hernandez, Andres Iniesta, David Silva, Wesley Sneijder, Fabregas, Luka Modric, Samir Nasri, Kaka, Bastian Schweinsteiger. Just to name a few.

Any young player/s come to your mind that fits that mold. Indulge me, my learned friend.
 

Well, I don't see a lot of other clubs' players, but the first player that sprung to mind is Darren Mitchell. He can sprint like an Olympic athlete (literally), he's great going forward and he's learning his defensive duties well. I would describe him more as a "Paul Scholes" box to box type player, but he has a good touch and control.

I also think that Daniel Cyrus could be a better midfielder than a defender. Not sure if he could run with the ball and accurately pass under pressure, but I feel he has more to his game. Seon Power is also a defender who could play an attacking role, in my view.

But then, I always view the game through English eyes, so my idea of a play maker is different than most Trinis. I feel we pass the ball too much and this allows the defence time to organise. We will never be Spain, because we do not have the depth of talent. Our best bet against the Mexicans, Americans, Dutch, Spanish etc would be to play the game that we're naturally good at. Make the transition at lightning pace. Fast, strong, powerful. We breed big, strong fast guys, but we make then play short passes along the ground.

In the Mexican game, the first 30 minutes saw the Mexicans struggling as we hammered forward. Once we let them slow the pace, we had to defend on our 18 yard box.

Take the game to them. Fast wingers, big centre forwards. Intimidate, jostle, unsettle. Thats why KJ and Glen do so well, they play the English way. It's not total football, in fact, it's often total chaos, but if we perfect it, we could one day win a Gold Cup.

Sorry it's not the answer you wanted!! 

would personally go for mix of passing and pace/power because I fear going back to games where the team got fragmented and the mids got completely cutoff from the strikers, an example of what I mean would be Ancelotti's chelsea team that year they broke the the prem scoring record, battering Ram meets quick short quick passing......if anything I think we can continue the way we are going now just up the tempo and physical nature of the play as much as possible ..............but when we are too direct all of the time we become predictable...........IMV we missed Peltier, molino and H Hector badly, particularly against Mexico and Haiti

also while a "magical" playmaker is a nice to have, I think it's not vital...........Latas and players like him are a rare breed that can't be made, those are born..........
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: King Deese on July 21, 2013, 08:35:03 PM
What is a "magical" playmaker? Who said anything about a "magical" playmaker?
What is this "battering ram" theory? That is what you want the rest of us to settle for?

WTF??????

FS, are you serious? There are "8". Count them. "8" teams in the pro cemetery. I find it difficult to believe that you haven't seen all "8" teams in action at some point. Your team included. The only playmakers you could come up with is Cyrus and Power or whoever? Hector, Molino, and whatever? That's it? You mean to tell me there are no young skillfull playmakers in TNT football that can control a game for his team? No wonder why football is in trouble in TnT.
Darren Mitchell is great going forward??????? What does that entail?
You are right. That is not the answer I was looking for.
Come on dude, you could do better than that.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: coache on July 21, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
I think Hart was talking about Peter Mitchell..
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: ckhan on July 21, 2013, 09:30:49 PM
I am looking forward to the boys play again, be it friendly or otherwise. The chemistry was developing from a defensive stance and we were stringing a few, quick passes, spreading the field and using speed. We will need a midfielder with some craft that can change the complexion of a game but I like where we are going as a team.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Socapro on July 21, 2013, 10:33:04 PM
Leo Beenhakker Gives His Perspective on T&T's Football Future
http://www.youtube.com/v/4SNdc2XKauE

We need Leo here for at least a year and not just 3 months.
Government and Business need to invest some money into paying his salary for at least that length of time.
T&T football needs a proper development structure put in place and someone like Leo can make sure it is done properly so we can develop our young players to competently compete on an international level.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Deeks on July 21, 2013, 11:01:20 PM
I think Hart was talking about Peter Mitchell..

One of the best to ever play in college. Was going good after Tech. Was on the Haiti squad and did well in CAC games 74. After that I don't know what happened. What if Skippy had the opportunity the play abroad like some of these guys? Big if!!!
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Socapro on July 21, 2013, 11:31:40 PM
Shaka Hislop likes what he saw of T&T at the Gold Cup
http://www.youtube.com/v/cjUoPr-6ri8

We need an international standard goal keeping coach. I wonder if Shaka would be interested of if he is indeed qualified in that capacity?
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Football supporter on July 22, 2013, 12:43:41 AM
What is a "magical" playmaker? Who said anything about a "magical" playmaker?
What is this "battering ram" theory? That is what you want the rest of us to settle for?

WTF??????

FS, are you serious? There are "8". Count them. "8" teams in the pro cemetery. I find it difficult to believe that you haven't seen all "8" teams in action at some point. Your team included. The only playmakers you could come up with is Cyrus and Power or whoever? Hector, Molino, and whatever? That's it? You mean to tell me there are no young skillfull playmakers in TNT football that can control a game for his team? No wonder why football is in trouble in TnT.
Darren Mitchell is great going forward??????? What does that entail?
You are right. That is not the answer I was looking for.
Come on dude, you could do better than that.


Actually, there are seven, soon to be six unless the applicants meet the leagues criteria. The reason why I can't name your fantasy midfielder is because he doesn't exist in the Pro League. If Messi played in the Pro League from age 16, he wouldn't be the player he is today.
Let's understand something. ProLeague is on a par with English League One at best. In that league, like the Pro League, teams can't play like Barca because there simply isn't enough quality players to play that way. For every quality player we create, Spain create 60 or 70. So a Spanish coach can play total football. ProLeague coaches have to train the flair and expression out of gifted players because it's counter productive. Their aim is not to lose. "Keep possession", continually "pass sideways and backwards", "don't gamble by making runs off the ball","keep shape", "hold up the ball ". These are the Pro League mantras.

Once upon a time, a "super" player would stand out because he was allowed to play his game i.e. Jerron Nixon, but now he is made to conform.

Our problem is that the 14 year old "super midfielder" has nowhere to go to improve his game. Intercol coaches still allow freedom of expression which is why we get school superstars, but put them into the ProLeague and they're lost. By age 20, it's difficult to learn how to play a completely different way.

Football is in trouble in T&T because many millions of $ that should have been spent on development has been stolen or wasted. Now we have to start from scratch. We also have to stop fooling ourselves that we can play like the top 20 or 30 nations. We can't. Just like a house painter can't paint a decent portrait, but he can do very well and surprise people on occasions. Once you accept your limitations you can build on your strengths.

We have to get into the top 70 and move our decent youngsters overseas. Then, maybe, we can play a better system.

At best, T&T are equivalent to Denmark or Austria. The difference is, we have some truly exciting young talent who can't express themselves. If we can work with them and get them overseas to decent clubs, then we may have a chance.

I never said Power and Cyrus were playmakers. But I believe they can play in more forward positions.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: royal on July 22, 2013, 06:27:51 AM
I will like to see 2 teams just like in Gally time. You'll remember Gally used a so call B team which took us all de way to the Shell Cup (Caribbean Cup) finals before he brought in de big guns.Let's be constantly playing assessing de local and young players playing within de Caribbean St Kitts,Barbados,Grenada,Guyana etc.This gives them experience and exposure to the next level.Then on FIFA dates play teams that are rank higher preferable or just around us with our strongest available team.Our first step must be to dominate de Caribbean again including Cuba,Jamaica,Haiti,Martinque etc. 
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: banton on July 22, 2013, 07:02:24 AM
start cuttin men from now cause wen gold cup and world cup qualifiers comes around not many can run ah full 90 keep hotye jones hector these fellas is de senoirs keep dem by time de next qualifiers cyrus dem will be seniors
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Deeks on July 22, 2013, 08:19:21 PM
You mean to tell me there are no young skillfull playmakers in TNT football that can control a game for his team? No wonder why football is in trouble in TnT.

Deese, ironically, you answered your own question. Since 2006 we have not  developed any player in the mole of Latapy, Cummings, Mitchell, guys from the Strike Squad etc. In 7 years we have produced zilch!
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: King Deese on July 25, 2013, 02:34:12 AM
As Lefty said "Players like Latas are born.....not made"

Back to my original question which was "What up and coming young player in TnT fits the mold of a playmaker?" That player, FS, is not a fantasy playmaker, he is a real baller plying his trade in the Super League and all the other football leagues in TnT, including the Pro Cemetery. Yes, we are all aware that football in TnT is in trouble because of a whole host of reasons not the least of which stems from the lack of anything that resembles a development structure, not to mention the millions that were siphoned that was meant for the game and the feeble minded people who ran the Association and the game into chaos. Yes, TNT's game has more holes than Swiss cheese and it maybe a long time before we catch up to the rest of the world or it may happen a little faster than you or I can fathom, but start over we must if the game is to mean anything to us as a nation.
Look around you, FS, and you will see teams popping up everywhere with new and exciting young ballers chumping at the bits to replace the dying breed on the national team so they can show the nation and the world what they can do. Attend some of those games if you will, and you too may realize that that playmaker I am inquiring about does exist. You speak of the 14 year old " super midfielder" who doesn't end up in a better league, with nowhere to go, as if all of them do, save but a few who end up in a league outside of TnT by age 20 having to learn a new way of playing the game. Don't you realize, FS, that any league outside of TnT represents a new way of playing the game and those 20 year olds will have to adjust and adapt to that style or get sent back home? That is what football intelligence is all about.

Deeks, that 7 year stretch from 2006 - to present day resembles a f#&king train wreck, the likes of which we will never forget nor do we ever want to see happen again. That period gave birth to chaos, sorrow, and a level of fraud, perpetrated by those WHO were supposed to champion the game, the likes of which this country has never seen. It was a heist to rival the great bank robbery.
As you so eloquently put it, nothing was developed, not even a blade of grass, contrary to what Jack Warner would have us believe. The barren land that manifested, gave rise to disappointments and solitude to all that witnessed what was unfolding out on the surface, it was plain to see that the game was teetering on the brink of death under the force of  the millions that vanished into thin air. Millions that was meant to develop the game. But you know what, as sure as the sun rises in the East and brings the light of a new day, a hopeful young man with a soccer ball at his feet, strikes that ball towards a make shift goal, pretending to have just scored on the best goalkeeper in the world, he juggles the ball over and over, until it becomes second nature to him, he controls the ball from a running start between cones, all under the watchful eyes of his father, or mother,  or big brother, a teacher, a mentor.
He does not gain his power from any development programme implemented by the TTFF, because there is none. His strength and determination to succeed, comes from within. Despite the 7 years of nothingness and ineptitude on behalf of the TTFF, this kid grows and somehow his game grows and radiates for all around to see. That strength comes from a dream of playing pro ball, someday, somewhere. His beliefs are deeply rooted in the love and laughter of those who love him and believe in him. No other ball player shines like him and yet so few in the know can see him for his full worth. He shines in the Super League and all the other minor leagues around and fans are attracted by his elegance and skills and flock to see him play. He is in every Duane Muckette, Christopher Morgan, Ryan Stewart, Matthew Woo Ling, Nathaniel Garcia, Marcus Gomez, Anselm Jackson, Jomal Williams, Anthony Parris, and all the other exciting playmakers, unknown to us, in TnT.
So, the rains will fall again, Deeks and FS, and shower the land and somehow there will be a new hope for tomorrow. This playmaker will never be a Latas, Cummings, Archibald, Spanner, or Dilly, but he will be the best he can be. He will be himself. He may not make it to another system outside of here but maybe he will realize his place is here, where he can bring life to this dead ass game and joy to its' long suffering fans.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: futbolfan on July 25, 2013, 04:50:43 AM
What is a "magical" playmaker? Who said anything about a "magical" playmaker?
What is this "battering ram" theory? That is what you want the rest of us to settle for?

WTF??????

FS, are you serious? There are "8". Count them. "8" teams in the pro cemetery. I find it difficult to believe that you haven't seen all "8" teams in action at some point. Your team included. The only playmakers you could come up with is Cyrus and Power or whoever? Hector, Molino, and whatever? That's it? You mean to tell me there are no young skillfull playmakers in TNT football that can control a game for his team? No wonder why football is in trouble in TnT.
Darren Mitchell is great going forward??????? What does that entail?
You are right. That is not the answer I was looking for.
Come on dude, you could do better than that.


Actually, there are seven, soon to be six unless the applicants meet the leagues criteria. The reason why I can't name your fantasy midfielder is because he doesn't exist in the Pro League. If Messi played in the Pro League from age 16, he wouldn't be the player he is today.
Let's understand something. ProLeague is on a par with English League One at best. In that league, like the Pro League, teams can't play like Barca because there simply isn't enough quality players to play that way. For every quality player we create, Spain create 60 or 70. So a Spanish coach can play total football. ProLeague coaches have to train the flair and expression out of gifted players because it's counter productive. Their aim is not to lose. "Keep possession", continually "pass sideways and backwards", "don't gamble by making runs off the ball","keep shape", "hold up the ball ". These are the Pro League mantras.

Once upon a time, a "super" player would stand out because he was allowed to play his game i.e. Jerron Nixon, but now he is made to conform.

Our problem is that the 14 year old "super midfielder" has nowhere to go to improve his game. Intercol coaches still allow freedom of expression which is why we get school superstars, but put them into the ProLeague and they're lost. By age 20, it's difficult to learn how to play a completely different way.

Football is in trouble in T&T because many millions of $ that should have been spent on development has been stolen or wasted. Now we have to start from scratch. We also have to stop fooling ourselves that we can play like the top 20 or 30 nations. We can't. Just like a house painter can't paint a decent portrait, but he can do very well and surprise people on occasions. Once you accept your limitations you can build on your strengths.

We have to get into the top 70 and move our decent youngsters overseas. Then, maybe, we can play a better system.

At best, T&T are equivalent to Denmark or Austria. The difference is, we have some truly exciting young talent who can't express themselves. If we can work with them and get them overseas to decent clubs, then we may have a chance.

I never said Power and Cyrus were playmakers. But I believe they can play in more forward positions.

I hate to agree with these comments, but this is the reality that many people cannot grasp or fail to come to terms with.
It will take some time for us to get back some respectability, but with a new administration in place and support from all parties involved I believe that it can be achieved.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Football supporter on July 25, 2013, 05:26:11 AM
Deese, the potential is there, the raw material is there in abundance. I see it every day. My point is that nobody is interested in material that raw overseas.

Even a club like Walsall has more options that it can service and therefore demands high standards. To win one of the 20-odd places in their academy each year you have to be better than the other two or three thousand potentials. Talent and ability are important, but at that point, they start to look at personality, attitude, discipline and the ability to be a team player.

This is where our players fail. Our 16 year olds won't cope unless they are properly prepared. Remember in "Being Liverpool" Sterling arrived from Jamaica and the first day at training Rodgers told him he'd be back home on a plane if he didn't change his attitude?

It's a lot harder than 20 years ago for older players to get out. Some of the smaller Scottish clubs are only paying 200 per week. That can be earned in the ProLeague. Places like India, Vietnam etc have developmental leagues earning big money but the football is poor. Remember the NASL?

We can develop talent if we have a plan. Just jumping on a plane will not suffice. And one major change that needs to take place is that supporters here have to learn to support. Deese, you kept referring to the Pro League cemetery. Why? The football's not bad and the league will get stronger as more Super league teams come through.

It all starts with positive attitudes from the public. How can players view football as a career? How can kids aspire to the Pro League? How can sponsors invest the money needed when people just diss the league without giving it a chance?

No one said the Pro League is perfect. But it's all we have. And it's the only developmental option in T&T.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: coache on July 25, 2013, 10:35:32 PM
Something tells me that Jack owns de Pro League ? Somehow the govt subsidizing the thing but the subsides going through Jack first.
Is it a conspiracy theory?
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Football supporter on July 25, 2013, 11:32:30 PM
Something tells me that Jack owns de Pro League ? Somehow the govt subsidizing the thing but the subsides going through Jack first.
Is it a conspiracy theory?

I'm not sure what you're alleging here Coache or if you're just being funny. The subvention is paid directly to clubs by Ministry of Sport. Sadly, it's not paid to the Pro League to share out, hence why Central receive no govt pennies.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: King Deese on July 26, 2013, 12:57:40 AM
Talent and ability are important, but at that point, they start to look at personality, attitude, discipline and the ability to be a team player.

Deese, you kept referring to the Pro League cemetery. Why? The football's not bad and the league will get stronger as more Super league teams come through.
FS, I totally agree with the statement above. Take Joevin Jones, for instance. He goes to tryout at Toronto FC and within a matter of days he is back in Trinidad without a contract because he couldn't make the cut for whatever reason. Now, you gotta say to yourself , what is wrong with this picture. Here is a kid who is obviously very talented and he cannot make the team. Hmmmm......Maybe, his attitude is poor, his work rate rotten, and his personality just doesn't fit the player profile Toronto was looking for. Had he been selected, he would have filled a small DP slot the organization was looking to fill. Sadly, there are more stories like his.
Why do I refer to it as the Pro Cemetery? - The league was established 14 years ago as a  means to strengthen the country's national team and improve the development of its domestic players. It is currently ranked 109th in the world, 10th in CONCACAF, only better than 3 other leagues in the region. Upon creation, the league's first goal was to establish better crowd attendances for its matches.  Skeene and his administration have failed miserably in those endeavours. I am fully aware of the problems associated with the stadiums being owned by the government and the lack of gate receipt, but you would think that after 14 years they would have come up with a plan to be self sufficient. A total of 21 distinct clubs have played in the pro league from it's inception in 1999, today, only 7. It's probably the only league in the world that adheres to the concept of expansion by contraction and brags that the league is growing. Foolishness. It's been a burial ground for many clubs. As for the players and the game, you yourself FS, admitted there is a pro league mantra that kills the flair and expression of the players that are skillful and dynamic, it's a burial ground littered with games void of exciting ebb and flow to keep the fan on the edge of their seats. It is a place where coaches play not to lose instead of playing to win. That's the kind of tactical brain dead scheme that has killed the game and the artistry of the playmakers. I could go on and on, but nah. By the way, the MLS has been in existence for 15 years. They are ranked 10th in the world.
Title: Re: The future for T&T national team
Post by: Football supporter on July 26, 2013, 06:14:07 AM
Deese, much of what you said is true.

But since 2007, I have been trying to think of ways to improve the Pro League without success. Yes, if we had the billions of dollars that the MLS have had, it may improve. The reason I say "may" is because the product isn't bad.

The problem, as I see it, is that the Trini culture does not seem to lend itself to blind adoration and consistent support.

We make far too many excuses for the "supporter".

Yes, the stadiums are poorly located, but if you really want to go, you can get there. They're not in the bush!

The climate is great for watching evening football.

We give out free tickets to kids so their parents can bring them to games, except the parents won't spend time with their sons. u16 games and below in USA and Europe are populated by parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, friends etc. Soccermum is an American invention! People support their kids. Not here. We're lucky to get 3 or 4 parents along.

Even at Pro League games, where are the players parents, family and friends? I can't understand why the players are not supported by their loved ones??

Media and TV are very anti local football. If they promoted Pro League the way they promote Champions League and PFL, things would improve. I can't believe there is no weekly Pro League highlight show. How are kids supposed to be exposed to Pro League?

The govt doesn't care. In other nations they recognise the social and financial benefits of professional football and get behind it. UK has an all party parliamentary football committee. Hoops of Life cost over $20 million. Why doesn't Pro League receive $30-$40 million per year with oversight from TTFA? We have teams pulling out of the CFU tournament because they can't afford to travel.

Warner and TTFF gave no support to Pro League. There has been no united front on tackling these problems.

Corporate Trinidad sucks when it comes to football. They give a few crumbs to get rid of you. If you're lucky, they'll give you product which you have to try to turn into cash. You can't pay players in Beer and water. I've had teams in cup finals and can't get sponsors to even attend the match let alone do some promotion. The only sponsors who actually support their club is Directv. They were fantastic, organising employees to attend games, giving out noisemakers etc.

Given all of the above, players feel almost embarrassed to say they play in the Pro League. I could not believe that extremely gifted 18 year old footballers would prefer to play school football rather than Pro League. At first I thought it was educational reasons. Then I realised these kids can barely read and don't attend classes. But they're heroes in school.

Who's advising these kids? While most kids in UK want to play in the EPL, they would move home in a flash if they got a contract with Plymouth Argyle or Raith Rovers.

In the past I've criticized Skeene and the Pro League. Going into my fourth year working in the league I can see that most of the leagues failings are due to the social attitude of T&T. Skeene does the best he can with pitiful resources and an uninterested, uninspired public.  I really don't know how to raise passion in supporters. As they say, you've got to want to change and the way I see it, most Trini supporters prefer to be negative and seem to thrive on complaining instead of doing something about it.

It's not unfixable, but without the resources it's difficult. The one great hope is that every year, kids are really enthusiastic. If we can capture and build upon that enthusiasm, we may be able to retain them as adult supporters. And also the new TTFA could bring help. Sheldon Phillips understands the commercial aspect of football, so maybe he can work closer with Skeene?

And much of the success of MLS was due to the generation of kids who saw NASL and aspired to be footballers. There was a demand for a new national league despite the previous failure and lessons learned have allowed a better product.

Maybe it's time that the Pro League followed TTFA and rebranded?

Sorry for the rant ....I hate mornings!!