Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Controversial on January 07, 2014, 12:35:07 PM
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The insecure remarks and negative, pessimistic nature of the local population in T&T is sickening. There are a few who do not harbor this deep rooted inferiority and have the confidence, self esteem and intelligence to overcome obstacles and challenges. But sadly, the vast majority are stuck in a mindset that doesn't allow them to see the bigger picture and realize that we are all equals.
Despite language, ethnicity and culture, football can be a very unpredictable sport. It's the team that shows up on the day and it is played between 11 men on each side that involves one keyword "Team". Whether the opposition has the best or best players in the world, it doesn't make a difference. It boils down to confidence, strategy and hard work as a unit, on that given day.
Someone who is highly insecure would indeed resort to giving up before the match has even been played or even before the players have been selected. This stems from lack of self belief and self confidence in oneself and their nation, their peers.
How do we defeat this mentality, well there is only way, blocking it out and proving to the naysayers that something is definitely wrong with them and that society as a whole in Trinidad needs to re-examine itself and their approach to life and sport.
You cannot win with some of these people verbally or in writing, because their ignorance knows no bounds. You have to win on the field and that will speak louder than words.
I am not preaching that you must not respect and underestimate your opponent and be prepared for them but you must believe in yourself first and believe you can win before stepping on that pitch. You must also block out the negative energy of individuals who are insecure and have this inferiority complex about themselves and their nation.
As true fans of T&T football, we need to unite against negativity and support our football team and its coach to do well in 2014 and that God will always be our guide in footballing journey. Win, lose or draw you must always think of yourself as a winner...
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I with you on this. Just came back from Trini on Sunday. While I was down deh...ah say maybe i would look into purchasing the new Joma Jersey. Asked a few people, freinds and family before going out to look for it on meh own...Boy....dey planase meh with talk..."Why you wasting ya money on that shit team?" "Boy you mad or wha...why ya doh look to spend ya money on someting good?" ah say well yes!!!. let me go out and look for this ting on meh own, cause is a waste asking the general public about we football. They just don't care. I tried looking own meh own......Couldn't find de jersey no where. ah finally find it in The fan club in Trincity on de last day of my stay.
Doh worry ah want de warriors to do good and den we will see all ah dem supporting. ah watching and waiting fuh dem....ah done mark all ah dem.
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I with you on this. Just came back from Trini on Sunday. While I was down deh...ah say maybe i would look into purchasing the new Joma Jersey. Asked a few people, freinds and family before going out to look for it on meh own...Boy....dey planase meh with talk..."Why you wasting ya money on that shit team?" "Boy you mad or wha...why ya doh look to spend ya money on someting good?" ah say well yes!!!. let me go out and look for this ting on meh own, cause is a waste asking the general public about we football. They just don't care. I tried looking own meh own......Couldn't find de jersey no where. ah finally find it in The fan club in Trincity on de last day of my stay.
Doh worry ah want de warriors to do good and den we will see all ah dem supporting. ah watching and waiting fuh dem....ah done mark all ah dem.
Sound like ah bunch of Wagonists to me!
Why did you not tell them all this:
Were you wagonists not the greatest Soca Warriors supporters back in 2006 when we against all odds qualified for the 2006 World Cup?
Well why not support your team in the bad times as well as the good times? That is what true love for and diehard support for your team is all about so that when we do qualify again in the future against all the odds you can proudly proclaim to everyone that you are not one of the recent wagonists.
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I've heard murmurs about this from friends and family and I can personally speak from experience about the difficulty of finding a jersey and I got the same reaction. I went POS, Sando mall, found it in the end in a small (well to an Englishman) mall type thing between Diego Martin and POS - one shirt, in white.... Even Westmoorings didn't have it and they looked as if I was speaking martian when I asked for a damn shirt! Good luck finding a Pro League shirt - I have a Defence Force jersey 'cause the missus' father was in the army, but I literally haven't a clue how you'd get any of the other jerseys.
I have my theories, but I'm speaking from ignorance so want to qualify them heavily. There's a massive focus on America and the UK in Trini from what I saw - really detrimentally so. They'll know some dead-beat scumbag rapper but won't know that the Pan-African movement was founded by a Trini lawyer. They'll all have a Premiership team, but don't care for Pro League. They'll support England/Spain/Italy but won't even know Trini are playing. I went ot a bar on the Avenue to watch Trini v Peru in Easter last year and I was the only person interested - on a small screen.
Also Pro-tip for Englishmen - a double whiskey on the rocks is a lot more than expected!
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Idk nah...I is think abt us trinis and sports...and the conclusion I came too...ever heard the saying...."rum done, fren done,"...same thing in sports...they in for a good lime at the oval...that's as far as it goes....inorder for us to be recognized as a true football nation, society has to get on board...until then...we're carnival nation...good for a good lime!
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Is it insecurity and inferiority or just indifference?
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They'll all have a Premiership team, but don't care for Pro League. They'll support England/Spain/Italy but won't even know Trini are playing. I went ot a bar on the Avenue to watch Trini v Peru in Easter last year and I was the only person interested - on a small screen.
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Is years now whenever I go back home I experiencing the same shite in trying to buy jurseys. Look nah yuh eh have tuh go home to deal with this. Just watch the board. In here and yuh go see how many ah dem rather talk up and deal with all kinda fantasy ball rather than talk about or promote we own. Man rather kill people thread than post in discussion about we own football. We have to dig out the yampee in we eye before we go piss on others.
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I does get enough licks on this forum for local Football so i have nothing to say but i just want to mention something on the Jerseys.
I have seen the new Jerseys at one or two shops in POS,Kennys/Sports and Games,i also saw them outside the stadium at those international games that i attended.
My senses tells me like they trying to sell out the old ones,may be they had a lot of stock because every sports store have a lot of old Jerseys any size or colour u want.
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The pro-league should be doing all in their power to retail their product. At the stadiums, they should set up shop with the jerseys etc. The TTFA should be doing the same thing with the national team jerseys. If the retail store not interested, they have to do it on their own.
Oh, by the way, this inferiority complex does not apply to football only.
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Absence makes the heart fonder and yuh never miss the water till the well run dry...........maybe foreign nationals are just a bit more nostalgic and passionate because of this when it comes to almost anything from back home..........and then it's the opposite for some back home
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Is it insecurity and inferiority or just indifference?
Indifference means lack of interest, disinterest, that is indeed present when it comes to supporting the ttfa because of their negligence over the years. However, our fans, populous are insecure and the inferiority complex stems from their lack of belief in themselves, their country and their people. The TTFA cannot be blamed for this mentality and it's exemplified with comments like "more Messi jerseys will be in the stadium than our national kit". That is not indifference... Indifference is not the root of the problem.
And it is certainly not at the heart of those comments about the jerseys and the team.
Also there isn't a lack of interest in watching world football, la liga, premiership, the interest is there. They will run out and buy the jersey or run out and buy a marley jersey, ask them if they are buying a national jersey? That is not indifference, TT is now a place where the kids are pseudo this and pseudo that because they are insecure.
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Is it insecurity and inferiority or just indifference?
Indifference means lack of interest, disinterest, that is indeed present when it comes to supporting the ttfa because of their negligence over the years. However, our fans, populous are insecure and the inferiority complex stems from their lack of belief in themselves, their country and their people. The TTFA cannot be blamed for this mentality and it's exemplified with comments like "more Messi jerseys will be in the stadium than our national kit". That is not indifference... Indifference is not the root of the problem.
And it is certainly not at the heart of those comments about the jerseys and the team.
Also there isn't a lack of interest in watching world football, la liga, premiership, the interest is there. They will run out and buy the jersey or run out and buy a marley jersey, ask them if they are buying a national jersey? That is not indifference, TT is now a place where the kids are pseudo this and pseudo that because they are insecure.
:applause: :applause: :applause:
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We are currently shrouded in mediocrity as far football in this country goes. Almost everything is executed in a "subpar" manner. You cannot ask people anywhere to buy into something that they perceive as inferior. What makes it harder is that the people who claim to love the game here in Trini are exposed everyday to what a professional product looks like on television - from the promotion of it, to the execution of it come game day. Is the product of football currently offered in T&T something that really gets you excited? Is there a player, a coach, ah team in this country that affects you in a manner that stirs up true excitement? These are the questions that people who are involved in the product of football need to ask themselves. When we (myself included) start offering real answers to those questions we will either come to the conclusion that we are simply not ready to offer football to the public, or, we will accept the challenge of doing it at a much higher level.
People in Trini love they fetes, right now - that is all I seem to here people talk about down here. In response to this, one has to say the people who offer these events have stepped up their game immensely. Most outdoor fetes offered in Trini rival any outdoor concert or festival I have attended outside - from the variety of the rum they offering, to the lighting, tuh the overall entertainment package. The point is fete is what Trini like and the people that offer it have stepped up their game - they have created a demand and people eating it up. Hell even my old secondary school have become "players" in fete business, and, I never thought I would have seen the day. They promote the sh it out of this thing and people cyan find tickets. The point ah trying to make is that we have to apply that same effort and and commitment into producing something in football that would make these people here in Trini want to get behind the thing.
In stating all ah this, it is with the understanding that their are exceptions to rule. There are indeed people who making ah real effort and they should be commended.
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Is it insecurity and inferiority or just indifference?
Indifference means lack of interest, disinterest, that is indeed present when it comes to supporting the ttfa because of their negligence over the years. However, our fans, populous are insecure and the inferiority complex stems from their lack of belief in themselves, their country and their people. The TTFA cannot be blamed for this mentality and it's exemplified with comments like "more Messi jerseys will be in the stadium than our national kit". That is not indifference... Indifference is not the root of the problem.
And it is certainly not at the heart of those comments about the jerseys and the team.
Also there isn't a lack of interest in watching world football, la liga, premiership, the interest is there. They will run out and buy the jersey or run out and buy a marley jersey, ask them if they are buying a national jersey? That is not indifference, TT is now a place where the kids are pseudo this and pseudo that because they are insecure.
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Again I think you pointing the finger in the wrong direction, this time away from the TTFA. I think the TTFF is culpable (in the majority) with the insecurities, inferiority and indifference of fans and players.
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insecurity was probably bred by the shitstorm brewed by the last TTFF and coupled with our slide and shit performances post 2006...ignorance breeds this current insecurity because anyone who closely follows the progress of the team esp under Hart can see that we're putting something really decent together that is markedly different than what existed under the TTFF in recent times..
..also, iz football..any follower of the sport knows how results can go..im just interested in the fellas putting out a good performance out there..lots of scouts lots of media attention out there...need to keep these kind of freindlies coming in...no more guyanas and st vincents..
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Absence makes the heart fonder and yuh never miss the water till the well run dry...........maybe foreign nationals are just a bit more nostalgic and passionate because of this when it comes to almost anything from back home..........and then it's the opposite for some back home
Cant speak for others, but ive been a die hard fan since my pops took me to the oval back in 88 or 89 when the strike squad took on Honduras. Ever since that day I've been hooked. I know a lot of people live abroad now and are more passionate about stuff back home only because they miss it....but its not the case for me.....Always loved Soca and football from since i small.....lol
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Is it insecurity and inferiority or just indifference?
Indifference means lack of interest, disinterest, that is indeed present when it comes to supporting the ttfa because of their negligence over the years. However, our fans, populous are insecure and the inferiority complex stems from their lack of belief in themselves, their country and their people. The TTFA cannot be blamed for this mentality and it's exemplified with comments like "more Messi jerseys will be in the stadium than our national kit". That is not indifference... Indifference is not the root of the problem.
And it is certainly not at the heart of those comments about the jerseys and the team.
Also there isn't a lack of interest in watching world football, la liga, premiership, the interest is there. They will run out and buy the jersey or run out and buy a marley jersey, ask them if they are buying a national jersey? That is not indifference, TT is now a place where the kids are pseudo this and pseudo that because they are insecure.
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Ok so in your haste to label the T&T fans as having insecurities and inferiority complex you forgot to take into consideration many factors in attracting and entertaining fans. Football must be viewed from the administrative side as a business. Like amwood mentioned the party game in T&T is off the charts. You attend parties that can rival any party around the world. Lets look at how the TTFF/A has failed to attract fans, entertain fans and keep fans coming back
Let's explore this a bit.
Product - in order to gain peoples' attention you must have a quality product that people will want to use/be part of.
- What benefits will the product provide?
- How will consumers react to the product?
Branding - you have to be able to reach your target audience with consistent, specific, information.
- How will consumers access the product consistently?
- How is your product different/better than established/similar/comparative products on the market?
Launching - presenting the product to your audience
- How?
- When?
Analysis - looking at how the product was received by your target audience and what improvements can be made.
Sustainability - You must be able to consistently meet your audience demands. Outside of meeting those demands you must constantly engage your audience with varying choices of your product.
Community - Through constant interaction and services to your audience you should initiate some form of loyalty program in an effort to allow your audience to make your product their own. This is where fans and supporters are develop and relationships are formed.
The TTFF made (from my recollection) two (2) major attempts at branding the MNT.
1. Strike Squad/Road to Italy/Kaisoca Soccer - Which was quickly abandonned after JW made off with all the money. Also no efforts were made to reconcile fans emotional let down from the results of the game that day.
2. Germany/Soca Warriors/ticket or leave it - Again after the WC JW made off with all the money leaving once again a major feeling of resentment, bitterness and another emotional void among supporters. Once again no efforts to reconcile with fans
Other efforts at commercializing, "94 for sure", I think it had one more after this, Beckham to T&T, Youth WCs.
The TTFF never place a premium on long-term product development and placement. Therefore, fans turn to a product where they can rely on service, entertainment and be a part of the "team". These products are Chelsea, Barca, Real Madrid, Man United, Messi, Ronaldo, Drogba, etc. These products are branded, they are sustainable, and they provide a community.
In todays world you cannot just say "Braps, loook meh!" Not gonna work. Every Footballing organization in the world guard their product with utmost vigilance. The TTFF, not so much. No calendar, no interaction, no responsibility, no product placement, no sustainability, no community, no loyalty.
Producers compete for the public business. Successful Producers know that people have many choices when it comes to exchanging their money for services, therefore, successful producers consistently engage their audience to ensure that their product is being chosen.
So to say fans are insecure or have some form of inferiority complex may not be entirely true.
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In my home country, when my team (River Plate) was relegated in second division for the first time ever, the fans remained strong and supportive. Same with the fans of Racing Club de Avellaneda, you still see the fans with the Racing jersey being constantly mocked by other teams and people but they remain faithful and loyal. It's great to see.
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In my home country, when my team (River Plate) was relegated in second division for the first time ever, the fans remained strong and supportive. Same with the fans of Racing Club de Avellaneda, you still see the fans with the Racing jersey being constantly mocked by other teams and people but they remain faithful and loyal. It's great to see.
Ahí viene la hinchada ...
que loca que está!
ahí viene la hinchada ...
que loca que está!
Vamos vamos millonario
que tenemos que ganar! ;)
Ustedes son un grupo ruidoso. :devil:
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LOL Por que somos los mejores! ;) y MILLONARIOS! No como los bosteros! :P
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:beermug:
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Irony........
Trinis living in foreign longing for trinidad jersey
Trinis living in trinidad longing for foreign jersey
Everybody want what they don't have......
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I in foreign and as much as I would like a TT jersey, I eh killing myself over it. But I think the post 2006 debacle has taking a toll on people's taste for football.
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Is it insecurity and inferiority or just indifference?
Indifference means lack of interest, disinterest, that is indeed present when it comes to supporting the ttfa because of their negligence over the years. However, our fans, populous are insecure and the inferiority complex stems from their lack of belief in themselves, their country and their people. The TTFA cannot be blamed for this mentality and it's exemplified with comments like "more Messi jerseys will be in the stadium than our national kit". That is not indifference... Indifference is not the root of the problem.
And it is certainly not at the heart of those comments about the jerseys and the team.
Also there isn't a lack of interest in watching world football, la liga, premiership, the interest is there. They will run out and buy the jersey or run out and buy a marley jersey, ask them if they are buying a national jersey? That is not indifference, TT is now a place where the kids are pseudo this and pseudo that because they are insecure.
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Ok so in your haste to label the T&T fans as having insecurities and inferiority complex you forgot to take into consideration many factors in attracting and entertaining fans. Football must be viewed from the administrative side as a business. Like amwood mentioned the party game in T&T is off the charts. You attend parties that can rival any party around the world. Lets look at how the TTFF/A has failed to attract fans, entertain fans and keep fans coming back
Let's explore this a bit.
Product - in order to gain peoples' attention you must have a quality product that people will want to use/be part of.
- What benefits will the product provide?
- How will consumers react to the product?
Branding - you have to be able to reach your target audience with consistent, specific, information.
- How will consumers access the product consistently?
- How is your product different/better than established/similar/comparative products on the market?
Launching - presenting the product to your audience
- How?
- When?
Analysis - looking at how the product was received by your target audience and what improvements can be made.
Sustainability - You must be able to consistently meet your audience demands. Outside of meeting those demands you must constantly engage your audience with varying choices of your product.
Community - Through constant interaction and services to your audience you should initiate some form of loyalty program in an effort to allow your audience to make your product their own. This is where fans and supporters are develop and relationships are formed.
The TTFF made (from my recollection) two (2) major attempts at branding the MNT.
1. Strike Squad/Road to Italy/Kaisoca Soccer - Which was quickly abandonned after JW made off with all the money. Also no efforts were made to reconcile fans emotional let down from the results of the game that day.
2. Germany/Soca Warriors/ticket or leave it - Again after the WC JW made off with all the money leaving once again a major feeling of resentment, bitterness and another emotional void among supporters. Once again no efforts to reconcile with fans
Other efforts at commercializing, "94 for sure", I think it had one more after this, Beckham to T&T, Youth WCs.
The TTFF never place a premium on long-term product development and placement. Therefore, fans turn to a product where they can rely on service, entertainment and be a part of the "team". These products are Chelsea, Barca, Real Madrid, Man United, Messi, Ronaldo, Drogba, etc. These products are branded, they are sustainable, and they provide a community.
In todays world you cannot just say "Braps, loook meh!" Not gonna work. Every Footballing organization in the world guard their product with utmost vigilance. The TTFF, not so much. No calendar, no interaction, no responsibility, no product placement, no sustainability, no community, no loyalty.
Producers compete for the public business. Successful Producers know that people have many choices when it comes to exchanging their money for services, therefore, successful producers consistently engage their audience to ensure that their product is being chosen.
So to say fans are insecure or have some form of inferiority complex may not be entirely true.
Excellent post man!
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We are not a serious people..preparation of a football team for somewhere in the distant future requires seriousness..therefore if Trinidad going to play Argentina somewhere in the future the expectation would be very low..because we already know that we are not a serious people.
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Is it insecurity and inferiority or just indifference?
Indifference means lack of interest, disinterest, that is indeed present when it comes to supporting the ttfa because of their negligence over the years. However, our fans, populous are insecure and the inferiority complex stems from their lack of belief in themselves, their country and their people. The TTFA cannot be blamed for this mentality and it's exemplified with comments like "more Messi jerseys will be in the stadium than our national kit". That is not indifference... Indifference is not the root of the problem.
And it is certainly not at the heart of those comments about the jerseys and the team.
Also there isn't a lack of interest in watching world football, la liga, premiership, the interest is there. They will run out and buy the jersey or run out and buy a marley jersey, ask them if they are buying a national jersey? That is not indifference, TT is now a place where the kids are pseudo this and pseudo that because they are insecure.
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Ok so in your haste to label the T&T fans as having insecurities and inferiority complex you forgot to take into consideration many factors in attracting and entertaining fans. Football must be viewed from the administrative side as a business. Like amwood mentioned the party game in T&T is off the charts. You attend parties that can rival any party around the world. Lets look at how the TTFF/A has failed to attract fans, entertain fans and keep fans coming back
Let's explore this a bit.
Product - in order to gain peoples' attention you must have a quality product that people will want to use/be part of.
- What benefits will the product provide?
- How will consumers react to the product?
Branding - you have to be able to reach your target audience with consistent, specific, information.
- How will consumers access the product consistently?
- How is your product different/better than established/similar/comparative products on the market?
Launching - presenting the product to your audience
- How?
- When?
Analysis - looking at how the product was received by your target audience and what improvements can be made.
Sustainability - You must be able to consistently meet your audience demands. Outside of meeting those demands you must constantly engage your audience with varying choices of your product.
Community - Through constant interaction and services to your audience you should initiate some form of loyalty program in an effort to allow your audience to make your product their own. This is where fans and supporters are develop and relationships are formed.
The TTFF made (from my recollection) two (2) major attempts at branding the MNT.
1. Strike Squad/Road to Italy/Kaisoca Soccer - Which was quickly abandonned after JW made off with all the money. Also no efforts were made to reconcile fans emotional let down from the results of the game that day.
2. Germany/Soca Warriors/ticket or leave it - Again after the WC JW made off with all the money leaving once again a major feeling of resentment, bitterness and another emotional void among supporters. Once again no efforts to reconcile with fans
Other efforts at commercializing, "94 for sure", I think it had one more after this, Beckham to T&T, Youth WCs.
The TTFF never place a premium on long-term product development and placement. Therefore, fans turn to a product where they can rely on service, entertainment and be a part of the "team". These products are Chelsea, Barca, Real Madrid, Man United, Messi, Ronaldo, Drogba, etc. These products are branded, they are sustainable, and they provide a community.
In todays world you cannot just say "Braps, loook meh!" Not gonna work. Every Footballing organization in the world guard their product with utmost vigilance. The TTFF, not so much. No calendar, no interaction, no responsibility, no product placement, no sustainability, no community, no loyalty.
Producers compete for the public business. Successful Producers know that people have many choices when it comes to exchanging their money for services, therefore, successful producers consistently engage their audience to ensure that their product is being chosen.
So to say fans are insecure or have some form of inferiority complex may not be entirely true.
I agree that sport is a form of entertainment, however in other nations a party match does not need to be staged in order for fans to love the game itself or to attract them to see their national team play. There is something called patriotism and pride. Which is lacking in T&T because of insecurity and once again the inferiority complex of many.
One simple thing you learn in economics, supply and demand. If locals demand a product, the suppliers will provide it, if they are not demanding a product, the suppliers won't supply it. I know what you are thinking, what drives demand?
Then of course, you will list, brand, marketing, launching, tra lala. I am very familiar with marketing strategies and implementation but I am also familiar with love and patriotism and regardless of the circumstances and situation, consumers will buy a product because they feel connected to it.
You can have TTFA launch a big marketing scheme and after so many millions are spent, their return would put them in the red and the reason why that would happen is because, the fans are not loyal in T&T because of what I started this topic on originally.
There is a disconnect, TTFF/TTFA is a part of the disconnect to a certain extent but the vast majority can be attributed to a lack thereof. I dare say it again, as to why, because I think you catch the drift. Because if you need fetes, marketing campaigns and all the hoopla to attract fans to see their nation play, then you need to ask yourself, is it the team or is it the fans and culture.
Because I grew up in Toronto and the Toronto Maple Leafs haven't won a Stanley Cup in the NHL since 1967... But guess what, their is a waiting list for season tickets and almost every game is sold out and millions watch it worldwide.
On to you...
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But there is demand - how else would minor leagues keep messing with professional footballers and the Eddie Hart league and community teams (Guaya, Sando) get such high attendance? The Jack Warner years definitely had a massive detrimental effect on Trini football and undermined the fan base
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But there is demand - how else would minor leagues keep messing with professional footballers and the Eddie Hart league and community teams (Guaya, Sando) get such high attendance? The Jack Warner years definitely had a massive detrimental effect on Trini football and undermined the fan base
I will not agree with u there at all,during the JW years and prior Football always had tremendous crowds,Minor league,club,College,and international,any where in T&T Football was played had crowds,what happen u feel is since 06 JW running Football.
What Contro is saying makes sense to me,from my experiences in T&T Football football killed itself because there is no improvement,players are not as committed as they used too,the serious have to leave home else they too will get dormant,the young stars we have at home will get bored just now,same Trophies they playing for,same players they playing against,same grounds they playing on year in year out.
We does talk about the times but we are still stuck in the past,we still blaming the TTFA and the past Admin,Tim Kee and them trying to make a difference and people pressureing them,the hole we have dug ourselves in is difficult to come out off.The only thing that will help our Football today is if we can find a way to keep our best players at home else there is nothing to market.
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What happened after 06 to kill the leagues? I've heard that basically it was down hill from the 90s in terms of local leagues, but if attendances were still high in the 2000's what the hell happened?
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But there is demand - how else would minor leagues keep messing with professional footballers and the Eddie Hart league and community teams (Guaya, Sando) get such high attendance? The Jack Warner years definitely had a massive detrimental effect on Trini football and undermined the fan base
I will not agree with u there at all,during the JW years and prior Football always had tremendous crowds,Minor league,club,College,and international,any where in T&T Football was played had crowds,what happen u feel is since 06 JW running Football.
What Contro is saying makes sense to me,from my experiences in T&T Football football killed itself because there is no improvement,players are not as committed as they used too,the serious have to leave home else they too will get dormant,the young stars we have at home will get bored just now,same Trophies they playing for,same players they playing against,same grounds they playing on year in year out.
We does talk about the times but we are still stuck in the past,we still blaming the TTFA and the past Admin,Tim Kee and them trying to make a difference and people pressureing them,the hole we have dug ourselves in is difficult to come out off.The only thing that will help our Football today is if we can find a way to keep our best players at home else there is nothing to market.
Coops, the exodus of players is a very common phenomenon in sport and yet leagues around the world will survive.
While most professional leagues have more than 9 clubs, the club ratio per capita or even per sq mile is probably better here than, say, Iceland, Cyprus, Finland etc.
The SPL clubs play each other 4 times per season and players don't seem to get bored.
The most successful and oldest leagues have been playing for the same trophies for over 100 years. That's kinda the point...the prestige.
The fact is, most Trinis are just not that interested in local professional football. I cannot understand why, but that's how it is.
It's not the product because
a) people watch minor league/school football which is consistently below Pro/ Super league level
b) people watch professional football that is the same or lower standard all over the world in their millions
It's not the expense because it's ridiculously cheap
It's not the weather (people travel miles and miles in rain, fog, snow to attend games elsewhere)
Yes, the marketing could be better, but it really isn't that difficult to find out about a game. Growing up, the only way I knew if the Gillingham game was going to be played that day was by listening to the midday news.
The media should do more, but to be fair to them, it's not their job to create a fan base.
So, I have to agree that the only factor I can point at is the fans. But, how do we change that?
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Its a combination of all 3 - insecurity, inferiority and indifference.
And that right there is there fundamental reason our football team performs the way it does.
National players are simply citizens and supporters of our country who can play football.
If these three traits are pervasive in our society, guess what is gonna happen when you select 18 citizens from this stock.
How dare we criticise our national teams, when the first thing we should be doing is looking at ourselves.
Beenhakker used to hit the nail on the head all the time with his comments about the application and mindset of our footballers when he was in charge. Thats why Yorke and Latapy and Hislop were critical for him - their mentality. And people used to get vex with the man when he lambasting players and telling them if they wanna remain beach footballers, then thats the best they will ever get.
How we feel about fete and carnival is how we suppose to feel about footbal if we are to consistently compete with the likes of Honduras, COsta Rica etc. Even Jamaica, if we had their patriotic spirit, we would be a true regional force, just like if they had our natural talent.
I will never forget going to see T&T vs England and you coulda swear Trinidad was the away team in the stadium. SMH.
Imagine in Trinidad when you boo the opposition people turn up they nose at you.
Thats why we are the first place the rest of CONCACAF start looking at to pick up points on the road.
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Its a combination of all 3 - insecurity, inferiority and indifference.
And that right there is there fundamental reason our football team performs the way it does.
National players are simply citizens and supporters of our country who can play football.
If these three traits are pervasive in our society, guess what is gonna happen when you select 18 citizens from this stock.
How dare we criticise our national teams, when the first thing we should be doing is looking at ourselves.
Beenhakker used to hit the nail on the head all the time with his comments about the application and mindset of our footballers when he was in charge. Thats why Yorke and Latapy and Hislop were critical for him - their mentality. And people used to get vex with the man when he lambasting players and telling them if they wanna remain beach footballers, then thats the best they will ever get.
How we feel about fete and carnival is how we suppose to feel about footbal if we are to consistently compete with the likes of Honduras, COsta Rica etc. Even Jamaica, if we had their patriotic spirit, we would be a true regional force, just like if they had our natural talent.
I will never forget going to see T&T vs England and you coulda swear Trinidad was the away team in the stadium. SMH.
Imagine in Trinidad when you boo the opposition people turn up they nose at you.
Thats why we are the first place the rest of CONCACAF start looking at to pick up points on the road.
good post :beermug:
Things i have also experienced that makes me shake my head...
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But there is demand - how else would minor leagues keep messing with professional footballers and the Eddie Hart league and community teams (Guaya, Sando) get such high attendance? The Jack Warner years definitely had a massive detrimental effect on Trini football and undermined the fan base
I will not agree with u there at all,during the JW years and prior Football always had tremendous crowds,Minor league,club,College,and international,any where in T&T Football was played had crowds,what happen u feel is since 06 JW running Football.
What Contro is saying makes sense to me,from my experiences in T&T Football football killed itself because there is no improvement,players are not as committed as they used too,the serious have to leave home else they too will get dormant,the young stars we have at home will get bored just now,same Trophies they playing for,same players they playing against,same grounds they playing on year in year out.
We does talk about the times but we are still stuck in the past,we still blaming the TTFA and the past Admin,Tim Kee and them trying to make a difference and people pressureing them,the hole we have dug ourselves in is difficult to come out off.The only thing that will help our Football today is if we can find a way to keep our best players at home else there is nothing to market.
Coops when you was a DoC, who did your players turn to for help? Who did your coaches turn to for help? Who did the DoC turn to for help? Where did your coaches get the knowledge, information, organization and concepts to enable improvement from?
Why is the USSF so invested in US Soccer? Why do they constantly engage clubs in attempting to improve youth development?
Go here (http://www.ttffonline.com/home/) and point me to a National Curriculum, a coaching course, any kind of info to assist the development of football in T&T. It's always the same old song and dance, the players not serious (even I do that) they not ready. Well guess what, you can't just wave a magic wand and "poof" quality players appear. There must be a process and in order o have a process you must have structure and that structure must have a foundation.
In 30 or so year of f@#KIng JW nothing, absolutely nothing, zilch, zero, nada. As a matter of fact in 100 years no plan, no brand. Spin how much you want the federation never led the way and it is with them the responsibility is entrusted to put in place a course of actions to enable development of the game that everyone can be PROUD of.
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Elan,like sometimes u does go off,i don't know how what u talking to me about come up,i never said we are doing the right things or Football has anything in place for our development,read what i said again,is 22 yrs i've spent in US Soccer and before that i was involved in T&T Football in various capacities,there is not very much anyone can tell me about both,u don't have to preach anything to me,i spoke about the crowds it used to have in T&T Football and it never had no marketing etc etc
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Elan,like sometimes u does go off,i don't know how what u talking to me about come up,i never said we are doing the right things or Football has anything in place for our development,read what i said again,is 22 yrs i've spent in US Soccer and before that i was involved in T&T Football in various capacities,there is not very much anyone can tell me about both,u don't have to preach anything to me,i spoke about the crowds it used to have in T&T Football and it never had no marketing etc etc
I am also trying to figure out what it has to do with the topic of this thread, too often posters on here stray from the topic coops, I am sure you saw this over the years as well. Hijacking an excellent discussion because of ulterior motives or because they have a very short attention span. I am not saying Elan is one but I have seen it happen over 10 years.
Stick to the topic at hand and address it. If not, get off the damn thread and post about something else that is relevant to your discourse.
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Elan,like sometimes u does go off,i don't know how what u talking to me about come up,i never said we are doing the right things or Football has anything in place for our development,read what i said again,is 22 yrs i've spent in US Soccer and before that i was involved in T&T Football in various capacities,there is not very much anyone can tell me about both,u don't have to preach anything to me,i spoke about the crowds it used to have in T&T Football and it never had no marketing etc etc
I am also trying to figure out what it has to do with the topic of this thread, too often posters on here stray from the topic coops, I am sure you saw this over the years as well. Hijacking an excellent discussion because of ulterior motives or because they have a very short attention span. I am not saying Elan is one but I have seen it happen over 10 years.
Stick to the topic at hand and address it. If not, get off the damn thread and post about something else that is relevant to your discourse.
You playing you can't understand. I not straying from the topic. I am addressing the topic of why I believe that the fans in T&T cannot just be labelled as having insecurities or inferiority complex if they hesitate to support T&T and supporting other teams.
Hey maybe if I just started berating T&T fans then maybe I will be on topic.
Ah go leave alyuh thread alone and you all can proceed on berating T&T fans for berating the T&T teams.
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Elan,like sometimes u does go off,i don't know how what u talking to me about come up,i never said we are doing the right things or Football has anything in place for our development,read what i said again,is 22 yrs i've spent in US Soccer and before that i was involved in T&T Football in various capacities,there is not very much anyone can tell me about both,u don't have to preach anything to me,i spoke about the crowds it used to have in T&T Football and it never had no marketing etc etc
Coops again as stated here many times before, Back then Pele wasn't on your TV every Saturday and Sunday morning and during the midweek on afternoons. There was no BeIN Sports, ESPN, Setanta, FSC for men to look at. Now you seeing every world star and up coming star from around the world live.
You can follow almost every major league in the world while yuh waiting on a maxi, in the doubles lines, while handing overs yuh iPhone 12 to ah bandit dat robbing yuh or even while using the TTFF computer that should be updating TTFF online.
But hey back then there was no marketing and fans came out.
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But hey back then there was no marketing and fans came out
Totally correct about this. I remember going to the Oval on a mid week to see TT play B'dos in an Olimpic qualifying game. Oval had about 18000 people. Mid week, star. Mid week.
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But hey back then there was no marketing and fans came out
Totally correct about this. I remember going to the Oval on a mid week to see TT play B'dos in an Olimpic qualifying game. Oval had about 18000 people. Mid week, star. Mid week.
The difference with me is that i was around in those times,that was my time why it's so hard for me to come to terms with what's going on today,my thoughts are when u go to Football is either u going there to enjoy a side show or u going there to enjoy a game of Football,all these pum pum girls etc etc is a huge distraction for me at games(now that's just me),when i go to a game i'm not just a spectator,i look at the game as a player,Coach,scout etc etc
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Quote from Elan
In 30 or so year of f@#KIng JW nothing, absolutely nothing, zilch, zero, nada. As a matter of fact in 100 years no plan, no brand. Spin how much you want the federation never led the way and it is with them the responsibility is entrusted to put in place a course of actions to enable development of the game that everyone can be PROUD of.
Enlighten (if at all possible) Coop's fuh me please ... Lord Faddah!!
Nevah see a person so loyal to such pure vermin. Cyah believe that 2 gin and tonic wit' de boys is responsible for such blind discipleship.
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The fans will get behind the team when they start producing results, deep down I know every single trini wants the national team to do well and support them but we have to be realistic, our current team isn't filled with superstars anymore, just a handful play in lower divisions across the globe. Head dropping losses to Guyana, Jamaica and Haiti still lingers, especially the way we didn't make the hex. Although we have some favorable results since Hart took the helm this team is still in a process of finding where they are ranked versus the new world teams. I will not say don't buy a shirt because we are well respected with Mexicans but not so much in USA and Costa Rica, maybe even Honduras so there is still a lot of pride wearing it regardless.
All I have to say is Hart is getting there, but there is still a long way to go before we start believing in the national team again. You can't force people to like your product, the product is what people should choose to like.
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The question is why doesn't T&T have more hard-core fans? England could lose 20 games in a row and still get 80,000 and there are a number of poorly performing nations who'd never not sell out.
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Quote from Elan
In 30 or so year of f@#KIng JW nothing, absolutely nothing, zilch, zero, nada. As a matter of fact in 100 years no plan, no brand. Spin how much you want the federation never led the way and it is with them the responsibility is entrusted to put in place a course of actions to enable development of the game that everyone can be PROUD of.
Enlighten (if at all possible) Coop's fuh me please ... Lord Faddah!!
Nevah see a person so loyal to such pure vermin. Cyah believe that 2 gin and tonic wit' de boys is responsible for such blind discipleship.
Dreamer u see what's the topic,why do u look for any opportunity to attack me on JW,i have been posting here for sometime check every single post that i have posted and see if i ever attacked u,my i deas and views about JW is mine why keep bringing it up all the time,ah mean look at the topic and here u go again.Have u ever done anything worthwhile for T&T Football besides old talk? JW gone breds JW is history we moving on is Tim Kee time,u know how many TTFA meetings i have been too already?what loyal to such pure vermin u talking about.
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I agree with the approach of marketing needing improvemen etc etc...but there is a deeper underlying problem.Our society is suffering from a cancer of recalcitrancy,debauchary,excess,selfishness,greed and apathy.Look at sports as a whole nobody cares of something that benefit the nation collectively,to have some interest..it must be a fad!!!
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I agree with the approach of marketing needing improvemen etc etc...but there is a deeper underlying problem.Our society is suffering from a cancer of recalcitrancy,debauchary,excess,selfishness,greed and apathy.Look at sports as a whole nobody cares of something that benefit the nation collectively,to have some interest..it must be a fad!!!
Very true man, I would like to believe that it's a cycle...with the advent of "affordable" cable television everyone's fixated on all things foreign - from cars to clothes, tuh what we now need to be entertained regarding football. I think things will change eventually, however, we just need something that can serve as the catalyst for that change...