Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: AB.Trini on July 06, 2014, 11:52:13 PM
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I read with support of the latest ' bravado' actions initiated by the minister of security: is about time- I agree with this move - flush them out like the rats they are-
Newsday
MORE SOLDIERS FOR JOINT PATROLS
By Nalinee Seelal Monday, July 7 2014
NATIONAL Security Minister Gary Griffith yesterday promised a dramatic increase in soldiers for all hot spot crime areas in a bid to reclaim this country from the hands of criminal elements.
“Every street corner and every area which we consider to be hot spot crime areas will be flooded with Defence Force officers who will be accompanied by their colleagues from the Police Service,” Griffith declared in an interview with Newsday yesterday.
There have been calls in many quarters for the Defence Force soldiers to be taken off the streets; calls which were intensified following the shooting death of Regiment Lance Corporal Kayode Thomas in John John, Laventille, on June 29.
There were claims following Thomas’ killing, soldiers began patrolling the streets on their own and were terrorising the community.
However, National Security Minister Griffith said yesterday, he has received positive feedback to the contrary.
“I want to let those persons who have been clamouring for the removal of the soldiers to know that their requests will not be entertained. In fact based on my feedback law-abiding citizens are very contented with the presence of the soldiers and police but I think the time will now come for more soldiers to be added to the patrols and this will be done within the next couple of hours,” he said last night.
Griffith added that helicopter patrols will also be added to the joint army/police patrols.
He said by this morning, citizens would wake up to the presence of more air and land patrols than ever seen before.
According to Griffith, those who have been calling for the removal of soldiers from the joint patrols were persons who were affiliated with the criminal community or those with criminal intent.
He also disclosed that the National Operations Centre will also be playing a greater role in the co-ordination of the patrols.
“I intend to utilise all aspects of national security in the fight against crime,”he assured.
The Defence Force has denied soldiers have been patrolling these areas by themselves or that they were engaged in terrorising residents.
The Defence Force, including Commanding Officer of the Regiment Colonel Rodney Smart yesterday took members of the media on a patrol in the Beverly Hills area where Lance Corporal Thomas lived.
At the Beverly Hills apartment complex last night there were army patrols visible while boys were playing a game of football. Nearby a wake was being held for Lance Corporal Thomas. A slide show of Thomas’ life was shown to residents and prayers were said for the fallen soldier. Defence Force personnel said the community welcomed their presence in the area.
Spokesman for the Police Service, Sgt Wayne Mystar said recently there was no intensification of patrols in the area. He said the Police Service and Defence Force were working together in joint army patrols.
“They go under the 24/7 patrols and they go under the Inter-Agency Task Force and we continue to collaborate with the Defence Force,” Mystar said.
On June 29, Lance Cpl Kayode Thomas was killed at Plaisance Road, John John at 11.30 pm. According to police reports, gunmen surrounded his car and opened fire. He died at the scene.
At the scene, officers recovered over 30 spent bullet casings around the soldier’s car.
The funeral service for Thomas will be held today at the Church of the Assumption, Maraval, at 10 am.
After the service, the body will be placed on the gun carriage at the intersection of Long Circular and Western Main Roads, St. James. The procession will march to the Military Cemetery, Long Circular Road, St. James, for the internment with full Military Rites.
Investigations into the murder of Thomas continue.
The National Security Minister also said that the recently formed Special Operations Group will focus primarily on gangs and officers of the SOG will be engaged in intelligence gathering.
“Time for action is now,” he assured.
The SOG, which draws resources from the various arms of National Security, deals primarily with hostage negotiations, counter terrorist activities and eliminating gang warfare.
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When you deploy troops against your own people, you risk a coup. This sounds... dodgy?
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When you deploy troops against your own people, you risk a coup. This sounds... dodgy?
If the law abiding citizens of T&T are really okay with this, then I'm fine with it.
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When you deploy troops against your own people, you risk a coup. This sounds... dodgy?
I disagree, breds. By any means necessary. I eh no UNC, but I glad. Long over due. That is PNM constituency and Patos threw his hands in the air. I from EDR and I would not shed a tear for them murderers.
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Egypt, Nigeria, Thailand - if you give the military the power to meddle in internal affairs you risk military coups - they feel justified in their position, get false/true impressions about their popularity, then (as humans tend to do) believe no one else can do the job as good as them.
Police are for internal issues of crime and disorder, army to protect the nation. If you want to ramp up internal crime-fighting then set a programme of increased hiring in the police force.
I'm conservative on issues of democracy :)
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if you give the military the power to meddle in internal affairs you risk military coups - they feel justified in their position, get false/true impressions about their popularity, then (as
That is a fair point. But I and you are not in the belly of the beast. But the people of EDR will take the risk with the army and police right now. When there is law and order, there is no need for the army. When there is uncontrollable murders, you resolve it by any means necessary. When them murderers show respective for their own kind and the defenseless, then we can go back to being conservative on issues of democracy.
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Egypt, Nigeria, Thailand - if you give the military the power to meddle in internal affairs you risk military coups - they feel justified in their position, get false/true impressions about their popularity, then (as humans tend to do) believe no one else can do the job as good as them.
Police are for internal issues of crime and disorder, army to protect the nation. If you want to ramp up internal crime-fighting then set a programme of increased hiring in the police force.
I'm conservative on issues of democracy :)
While there may well be a delineation of duties between police and army, given the situation and the set of crime on a national level, duties are not one to adhered to in terms of national and internal assignments.
It is clear that the police are stretched and maxed out- not to mention that there may be internal rouge elements that are impede ding their effectiveness in solving or apprehending criminals. Given the sate of affairs, it is about time that we see Defence forces camped out on every street very corner every village until they flush out the rats and dem.
Look nah even the UN had troops deployed in the Balkans presiding over civil and domestic affairs. There are ample examples of where troops,are deployed in countries to restore civil unrest- what we have in TNT- more so Trinidad is tantamount to civil disobedience a blatant disregard for law and order and a wanton boldness to carry out murders at will. Yes to bringing out full force to deal with the rats.
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Can definitely see your points Deeks and Trini - I think I just have a higher threshold. I'd never, for example, allow "...by any means necessary", nor typify the issue as "...[flushing] out the rats and dem." That's because I'm fairly left wing, but also because one you justify, sanctify, and glorify that behaviour, the next step is nearly always detrimental to democracy - you're subverting the normal due process and pushing the army into a situation they're untrained for.
As an example (this isn't the only reason, just one aspect that disconcerts me), we might expect the threshold for an army soldier to use deadly force to be lower than a policeman - the former is typically engaged in situations that do not require a withholding of force and they're not trained for that, whilst the latter is trained to apprehend and subdue suspect wherever possible without deadly force. Fine if you're fighting armed gang members on abandoned docks or warehouses, but if you want them on 'every street corner', then you're more likely to be fighting in an urban setting. In such a situation, fire-fights will invariably risk citizens in the immediate vicinity being caught up in the battle. Are the soldiers trained in the same situational awareness that specialist armed policemen would be? Are they using the same calibre weapons? Or more powerful weapons that are more likely to pierce the walls of local dwellings? Are the soldiers fighting at a disadvantage when they are not able to use their full compliment of weapons (grenades) for which their tactics might be reliant? Flash-bang tactics are very different, for example.
I'm fairly ignorant of the gound-situation, if you guys live in POS, so that might be one of the reasons I have that higher threshold :)
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They should've thought about that before they put 32 slugs in soldier boy with 8 kids.
Now they gonna fine out what brothers in arms mean.
Love it would like to see pics of the streets with tanks and armoured cars everywhere.
Took them long enough to take back the streets.Btw Deport every criminal caught in the net who not legal.
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you're subverting the normal due process
The "due process" in TT has been subverted for quite a while now. The PNM has to take all the blame for that. They have rule TT the most since independence. Rackets, corruptions, bribery, smuggling, murders have been committed and very little have been done to stopped it. Such that, after a while, ordinary people take that behaviour as the norm for people in power and accept it.
And by the way I eh no conservative. I am pretty liberal in most ways. Give or take a few biases. But I understand where you coming from. But the TT you left a long time ago is not the same. We have some hardcore criminals in our community. Some are our own family. These bandits are using intimidation in an urban setting to get their way, and when they get busted, they then cry foul. Unfortunately this dreadfull situation is rooted in the Afro-Trinidad community. Specifically in EDR. And that is MY area. That is why I shooting out meh mouth like that.
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This blaming of PNM is ludicrous and points once more to a governance of incompetence. Just look at the inept ministers who were appointed:
What qualifications did gypsy have .
What qualifications did sports man have?
Look at the I descriptions of ministers who were sacked?
Look at the number of security ministers we had?
Look at the inability to be transparent with solving big time cases- juice can fiasco- chicken laced with drugs- SC assignation? All them gone quiet after all the bravado thath they know who did each
Look at the removal of the security measures which were in place around the island
Look at how this past general elections were funded?
Look at big time minister who cyar fly out ah TNT? All the fraudulent alleged transactions?
Look at the immoral and unethical behaviour by ministers?
These are but a few examples of governance gone wild- the fault dear Brutus is not in prior leadership but in those who chose to advocate for change. Wake up TNT and see the present state of corruption and the apparent free reign Given to those criminal elements who may have allegedly cast thief support for the governance we have today.
If as a party yuh know yuh inheriting crap should ypu not have the toilet paper to clean up not to make more?
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AB, all I am saying is that a lot of our current problems did not start just so. These behaviours were allowed to let slip by the former gov't, who should have nipped them in the buds. I don't think we giving the current admin. a pass when we refer to some of the actions of the former admin. past performances. That is why they were voted out.
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Just to clarify I'm totally ignorant - White British from birth and only have links to Trini through mi lady :)
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Just to clarify I'm totally ignorant - White British from birth and only have links to Trini through mi lady :)
That should not be a problem. Well not for me at least. As far as I am concern, the situation is East POS, is dire. I need to go where I want without fearing for my life because someone bandit think I am an outisider or just an easy prey. People outside of POS, may or may not have deviants shooting up their neighbourhood, so it may not be an issue for them. But it is an issue as far as E POS goes, for me at least.
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Just to clarify I'm totally ignorant - White British from birth and only have links to Trini through mi lady :)
That should not be a problem. Well not for me at least. As far as I am concern, the situation is East POS, is dire. I need to go where I want without fearing for my life because someone bandit think I am an outisider or just an easy prey. People outside of POS, may or may not have deviants shooting up their neighbourhood, so it may not be an issue for them. But it is an issue as far as E POS goes, for me at least.
Welp I'll be living in Diego Martin, specifically Bagatelle, so I doubt I'll be much better off than you lol. There's some "outsider" tension around that place too sadly.
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When you deploy troops against your own people, you risk a coup. This sounds... dodgy?
I disagree, breds. By any means necessary. I eh no UNC, but I glad. Long over due. That is PNM constituency and Patos threw his hands in the air. I from EDR and I would not shed a tear for them murderers.
Are soldiers trained to detect crime? Are they familiar with the criminal code sufficient as to not trample the rights of citizens? Do we have any assurancs that we wouldn't see a repeat of the same mess as under the SoE when mass arrests lead to mass dropping of charges for Constitutional violations? People does mistake activity for achievement... and make no mistake about it, this is not lost on the present goverment.
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Look nah even the UN had troops deployed in the Balkans presiding over civil and domestic affairs. There are ample examples of where troops,are deployed in countries to restore civil unrest- what we have in TNT- more so Trinidad is tantamount to civil disobedience a blatant disregard for law and order and a wanton boldness to carry out murders at will. Yes to bringing out full force to deal with the rats.
Allyuh does think before allyuh type? U.N. forces are specifically trained in peacekeeping efforts, and largely deployed to security... that is, protecting certain assets and at risk populations. The TTDF has no such training that I'm aware of.
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I will let you know , after four missions in theBalkans, the soldiers and the UN briefings I attended, reassured me that they were soldiers first thrust into working at times with police and at times having to perform policing without formal training. I am speaking from lived experience.
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I will let you know , after four missions in theBalkans, the soldiers and the UN briefings I attended, reassured me that they were soldiers first thrust into working at times with police and at times having to perform policing without formal training. I am speaking from lived experience.
Yes, and even from your own limited and subjective experience... look at how many times yuh parse it. One isolated situation in the Balkans, limited to only briefings you attended, soldiers spoke about "at times" having to work with police, and even then only "at times" having to perform police duty. Yet based on that limited anecdotal experience you declare such military forays into civilian peacekeeping good enough to serve as a model for the TTDF. Like I said... allyuh does listen to allyuh self? Never mind the fact that you cannot compare the situation of foreign UN forces acting in a country and native military forces doing the same at home.
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Soilder police was on role this morning in the Beetam ,from what I heard on the radio a man was beaten because he did not follow orders.
I was wondering what the National Security Minister meant when he said if you hit one solider you hit all .
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Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
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Video here; http://www.tv6tnt.com/sevenpm-news/-Alleged-Soldier-Brutality-2665----267274631.html
Can't make a dictatorship without kicking a few proles.
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Steuppss you beleive thàt ,am going to pick up my kid ... you lie ,watack kick ,cuff.
Yesterday 1 black eye ,zero murders.
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Steuppss you beleive thàt ,am going to pick up my kid ... you lie ,watack kick ,cuff.
Yesterday 1 black eye ,zero murders.
So all those beaten up by the forces are guilty? The laws against police brutality are there to protect the innocent, no the guilty - if it was your son/brother/father and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, you'd not be so happy about "1 black eye". Police Forces of competence have a first priority of protecting the innocent, not catching the guilty - whilst they overlap extensively, the prioritization is damned important.
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When u start living down there you can better judge.
Ppl can walk down the road and get beaten and robbed by bandits , but now badmen getting the same treatment and they crying foul.
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When u start living down there you can better judge.
Ppl can walk down the road and get beaten and robbed by bandits , but now badmen getting the same treatment and they crying foul.
Yea I'm conscious of my ignorance, do you live in East PoS? How do you know he's a "badman"? All you know was that he got his face kicked in by the Army. I fear you're jumping to conclusions :(
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I jumping to conclusions ,how do u know is the real army ?Didn't the army say it was not them.You know it have bandits that dress up like the army in TnT.
When u go TNT you should ask ppl if they hate the idea. Or go up East Pos and find out yourself.
After all domestic terrorist have rights too.
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I jumping to conclusions ,how do u know is the real army ?Didn't the army say it was not them.You know it have bandits that dress up like the army in TnT.
When u go TNT you should ask ppl if they hate the idea. Or go up East Pos and find out yourself.
After all domestic terrorist have rights too.
The fact that the army did this was not the point of contention - merely whether the man in question did anything to 'deserve' it. Were it in question I'd not be stating this position. Last time I checked wearing camo was still illegal in Trinidad.
Asking locals' opinions wouldn't change my position - it's not one based on the opinions of the local but the parallels with similar situations across different countries and different times. If it turns out they used excessive force, it would certainly seem to support my position. I think your comment about domestic terrorists is supposed to be sarcastic, but yes, terrorists have rights too - the same rights all human beings should have access too regardless of how much of a scumbag they are.
Anyway you never answered if you were living in POS or Trini-side - i'd be interested in your opinion.
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This is what you risk when you have soldiers in masks policing your community not accompanied by proper police after your PM who does not seem to care about your constitutional rights as a T&T citizen has announced that she has unleashed the Dogs of War.
Laventille man: I was also beaten (http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-07-17/laventille-man-i-was-also-beaten)
Published: Thursday, July 17, 2014
Derek Achong (T&T Guardian)
A visit to George Street, Port-of-Spain to see his six-year-old daughter turned tragic for a Laventille man who claimed to have been ambushed, beaten and robbed by two soldiers before he could complete his daily routine. The incident on Tuesday morning is the latest report of abuse from residents of east Port-of-Spain, since soldiers began patrolling their communities following the murder of their colleague Lance Corporal Kayode Thomas on June 29.
In an interview at the Port-of-Spain General Hospital, in the presence of his lawyer Varun Debideen yesterday, 35-year-old Leon King, of Block 8, Laventille, recounted his ordeal with the two soldiers which left him with several injuries including a broken jaw. King said around 4.30 am he was about to enter the stair well at his ex-wife’s apartment building when he was confronted by the soldiers patrolling the housing complex.
“One tell me to lie down on the stairs and the one with the mask tell me empty my pockets,” King said. He claimed that as he was about to comply, one of them struck him twice on his face with a gun. He said when he fell over the two soldiers began violently prodding his back with the barrels and butts of their assault rifles while searching his pockets. “Thank God an old lady see and was bawling out for me. That is what make them leave me alone,” King said.
He said before they left, the soldiers took $225 which they had emptied from his pocket, leaving him with only his two cellphones. Barely able to walk, King stumbled to his car which was parked a short distance away and drove to the hospital for treatment. Asked if he was questioned over Thomas’s murder or in relation to Dillon “Bandy” Skeete—the Laventille resident who has been labelled a suspect in the murder by the Defence Force—King said no.
“I don’t know about Thomas and Bandy,” King said. Apart from the pain of his injuries, King said he was disappointed by the soldiers’ attack as he was one of the few east Port-of-Spain residents who supported the patrols in their communities. “Before with the police alone you would still hear gunshots ring out in the night. Now with the soldiers around that don’t happen again, so people could sleep in the night.
“But look what they do me. I can’t trust no soldier again,” an emotional King said while clutching the right side of his face as he grimaced in pain with each word. King’s incident occurred hours before two employees of the Community-based Environmental Protection and Enhancement Programme (Cepep) Ishmael Job and Brandon Granger claimed they were attacked by soldiers at a job site near their homes at Desperlie Crescent, Laventille.
King is scheduled to undergo surgery tomorrow to repair his jaw and is expected to lodge a formal report to both the police and the Defence Force after he recovers. Meanwhile, he has given instructions to his lawyer to initiate an assault and battery lawsuit against the soldiers. Contacted yesterday liaison officer for the T&T Regiment, Capt Stefan Affonso, said although the Defence Force were yet to receive an official report on the incident, it would still start an investigation into the incident.
“We are actively investigating all reports of abuse,” Affonso said.
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‘Illegal for soldiers to go on their own’ (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Illegal-for--soldiers-to-go--on-their-own-267595641.html)
By Alexander Bruzual alexander.bruzual@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Jul 17, 2014 at 9:44 PM ECT
Soldiers who act on patrols without support from police officers are doing so unlawfully and could potentially face prosecution.
Secretary for the Police Social and Welfare Association Michael Seales yesterday supported statements made on Wednesday by acting Commissioner of Police Stephen Williams at a news briefing at the association’s headquarters at Besson Street, Port of Spain.
“The acting Commissioner would have made it abundantly clear recently that it is illegal for soldiers to go out there on their own to perform duties of policemen, especially on the basis of an investigative role in the absence of police officers. No soldier should stop, interrogate and search any citizen of this country in relation to any crime perpetrated, without the support of officers from the T&T Police Service.
“The association wants to make the distinction, we cannot stop the soldiers from going into any area, but what we want is to remind them of their functions. Because if they search a person in the absence of a police officer, that is a breach of the law, and if someone wants to take it further, can occasion an assault against that person which can lead to charges being levied against these soldiers,” Seales said.
He emphasised that he was not against the presence of soldiers in a community, however, he wanted their actions to be lawful.
Police said yesterday they had no new “reports” of citizens in this country claiming that they had been assaulted by the members of the T&T Defence Force.
The latest allegation of “soldier brutality” came on Tuesday from 35-year-old Leon King, who claimed that he was unfairly attacked by two soldiers, one who was wearing a mask. This attack, King alleged, resulted in him getting a broken jaw and a possibly dislocated vertebrae.
Speaking to Express yesterday, King’s girlfriend Kisha confirmed that the 35-year-old father of two was still “in a lot of pain” but she was hoping that he would be released from the hospital by the end of the week.
“He’s doing slightly better. He’s still in a lot of pain, but the swelling by the eye is going down and his bruises are becoming lighter. Today the doctors did the CT scan to make sure everything was OK and they are looking forward to wiring up his jaw tomorrow (Friday). They said once that done he will be released and could go home. So we are looking forward to that,” Kisha said.
She said King had yet to go to the Besson Street Police Station to make a report, but he will be doing so as soon as he is released.
Patrols by soldiers in east Port of Spain and Laventille began on June 29 following the murder of Lance Corporal Kayode Thomas.
Several residents have made claims that they were abused by soldiers. These claims are being investigated by the Defence Force.
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F@#k that shyte. Beat up they arse. They eh care about nobody and if a couple innocent ones paas in the rush then they will know not to think about joining a gang.
I done tell my brothers and them stay away from them hot areas, because if yuh get caught in the mess then yuh look for it.
They always have video when police shoot or beat up, but could never have a cell phone when a citizen get rob or murder. The jackarse news people giving bandit and murders a platform to show out. Imagine men threaten police on national tv talking about they eh have to sign for no gun. :bs:
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F@#k that shyte. Beat up they arse. They eh care about nobody and if a couple innocent ones paas in the rush then they will know not to think about joining a gang.
I done tell my brothers and them stay away from them hot areas, because if yuh get caught in the mess then yuh look for it.
They always have video when police shoot or beat up, but could never have a cell phone when a citizen get rob or murder. The jackarse news people giving bandit and murders a platform to show out. Imagine men threaten police on national tv talking about they eh have to sign for no gun. :bs:
How many innocents would you have beaten up elan? Would you send your brother to get beat if 4 gang-bangers get beat in return? All angry talk - you ain't interested in justice, just petty revenge.
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Watch how you go sing a different tune if yah go down there and its still not cleaned up and somebody lock your neck and take away your Clarkes and your passport.
You go be flagging down the same army truck and yelling they went that away.
If they still paroling .
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Not wishing that on you .
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F@#k that shyte. Beat up they arse. They eh care about nobody and if a couple innocent ones paas in the rush then they will know not to think about joining a gang.
I done tell my brothers and them stay away from them hot areas, because if yuh get caught in the mess then yuh look for it.
They always have video when police shoot or beat up, but could never have a cell phone when a citizen get rob or murder. The jackarse news people giving bandit and murders a platform to show out. Imagine men threaten police on national tv talking about they eh have to sign for no gun. :bs:
How many innocents would you have beaten up elan? Would you send your brother to get beat if 4 gang-bangers get beat in return? All angry talk - you ain't interested in justice, just petty revenge.
I think we should also consider how many innocent have died and are dying due to the state criminals have left the country. If these hot spots STOP protecting these criminal elements WE would be in a better position today. As pointed out by other posters..where are the cameras and witnesses when the police/soldiers and innocent citizens get killed.
I may not agree with the soldiers on the streets, but we have to take back the country from the criminal elements.
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Speaking about the criminal element in T&T (see video below). A lot of us tend to glorify the gangster/badman lifestyle. The government can only do so much. parenting and community still has an affect.
http://www.youtube.com/v/DYJjNd0fFSI
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I think we should also consider how many innocent have died and are dying due to the state criminals have left the country. If these hot spots STOP protecting these criminal elements WE would be in a better position today. As pointed out by other posters..where are the cameras and witnesses when the police/soldiers and innocent citizens get killed.
I may not agree with the soldiers on the streets, but we have to take back the country from the criminal elements.
Innocents dying due to the actions of criminals has no bearing on the separate discussion about criminal behavior by those charged with upholding the law. Nothing. Even if we found a magic cure for crime tomorrow we'd still have to separately address the issue of abuse at the hands of police and soldiers. Intelligent people should be able to appreciate as much.
Secondly, it is nonsensical to question "where are the cameras when the police/soldiers and innocent citizens get killed." The implication is that nobody have a camera or video when criminals are targeting innocent victims. Common sense should explain the reason for that. For one if a criminal sees you filming or recording their acts they are likely to turn their attention to you and try to hurt you. For another, even if they don't see you recording, when it comes time to testifying about the video in court they will still learn your identity and victim intimidation/retaliation is a serious issue in Trinidad.
In a perfect world people wouldn't be intimidated by this fact, but people have their lives to consider. Just look at how a high profile member of the public like Dana Seetahal could be gunned down like a dog, and to date not one person arrested for it. Far less for the average Joe with a cell phone camera. We should be decrying the state of criminality as condoned by the government/s for so long, rather than criticizing people for not wanting to put themselves at risk. It is easier to pull out a phone and record police abuse, because at least the expectation then is that police/soldier wouldn't come and target you for recording their behavior. Although judging from some ah allyuh comments, it look like people can't even enjoy that reassurance anymore.
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Logic and 'intelligence' disappears when senseless crime hits home (3 times in 5 years). Ms Seetahal was a relative, so I'm speaking from recent experience.
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F@#k that shyte. Beat up they arse. They eh care about nobody and if a couple innocent ones paas in the rush then they will know not to think about joining a gang.
I done tell my brothers and them stay away from them hot areas, because if yuh get caught in the mess then yuh look for it.
They always have video when police shoot or beat up, but could never have a cell phone when a citizen get rob or murder. The jackarse news people giving bandit and murders a platform to show out. Imagine men threaten police on national tv talking about they eh have to sign for no gun. :bs:
How many innocents would you have beaten up elan? Would you send your brother to get beat if 4 gang-bangers get beat in return? All angry talk - you ain't interested in justice, just petty revenge.
Petty revenge? On what?
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Logic and 'intelligence' disappears when senseless crime hits home (3 times in 5 years). Ms Seetahal was a relative, so I'm speaking from recent experience.
Yes, and she was killed in a 'hotspot', right?
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Watch how you go sing a different tune if yah go down there and its still not cleaned up and somebody lock your neck and take away your Clarkes and your passport.
You go be flagging down the same army truck and yelling they went that away.
If they still paroling .
Firstly, Clarkes is an over-expensive old person's brand in the UK, I chuckled a little at the idea that Clarkes could be a serious brand when the missus told me that a year ago lol.0
Secondly, Yea I would flag them down, but if they then proceeded to beat the guy up I'd be shipping them in - criminality is criminality, and I want justice not violent revenge - you're not better than the gang-bangers if you demand blood for blood.
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F@#k that shyte. Beat up they arse. They eh care about nobody and if a couple innocent ones paas in the rush then they will know not to think about joining a gang.
I done tell my brothers and them stay away from them hot areas, because if yuh get caught in the mess then yuh look for it.
They always have video when police shoot or beat up, but could never have a cell phone when a citizen get rob or murder. The jackarse news people giving bandit and murders a platform to show out. Imagine men threaten police on national tv talking about they eh have to sign for no gun. :bs:
How many innocents would you have beaten up elan? Would you send your brother to get beat if 4 gang-bangers get beat in return? All angry talk - you ain't interested in justice, just petty revenge.
Petty revenge? On what?
You're not asking for justice, you're asking for vengence, no trials, just violence. Petty revenge symbolises that, not sure why you're so dead-set on having them beaten up and taking the collateral damage
But you have avoided all my other questions - would you send your brother to be beaten up with a chance he dies, just so they can head stomp some criminals? How many criminals make that a fair trade? Those who are fine with collateral damage rarely continue to be so when it's their family and their loved ones being beaten.
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Logic and 'intelligence' disappears when senseless crime hits home (3 times in 5 years). Ms Seetahal was a relative, so I'm speaking from recent experience.
Yes, and she was killed in a 'hotspot', right?
not sure if you realize it yet, but Trinidad is a hotspot.
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not sure if you realize it yet, but Trinidad is a hotspot.
Not at all the case, there is crime all over Trinidad, but the hotspots are isolated.
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This is like the Coup days.Was fun parents uses to warn don't go outside and let the army ketch you after dark.
Got caught a couple times and got sent home lol.
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‘Illegal for soldiers to go on their own’ (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Illegal-for--soldiers-to-go--on-their-own-267595641.html)
By Alexander Bruzual alexander.bruzual@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Jul 17, 2014 at 9:44 PM ECT
Soldiers who act on patrols without support from police officers are doing so unlawfully and could potentially face prosecution.
Secretary for the Police Social and Welfare Association Michael Seales yesterday supported statements made on Wednesday by acting Commissioner of Police Stephen Williams at a news briefing at the association’s headquarters at Besson Street, Port of Spain.
“The acting Commissioner would have made it abundantly clear recently that it is illegal for soldiers to go out there on their own to perform duties of policemen, especially on the basis of an investigative role in the absence of police officers. No soldier should stop, interrogate and search any citizen of this country in relation to any crime perpetrated, without the support of officers from the T&T Police Service.
“The association wants to make the distinction, we cannot stop the soldiers from going into any area, but what we want is to remind them of their functions. Because if they search a person in the absence of a police officer, that is a breach of the law, and if someone wants to take it further, can occasion an assault against that person which can lead to charges being levied against these soldiers,” Seales said.
Security minister clarified the role of the Defense Force in the 'hotspots'
http://www.youtube.com/v/XpdqB_VrxgI&list=UUoMVhsqo5huXDwMyr3lF4qQ
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I think we should also consider how many innocent have died and are dying due to the state criminals have left the country. If these hot spots STOP protecting these criminal elements WE would be in a better position today. As pointed out by other posters..where are the cameras and witnesses when the police/soldiers and innocent citizens get killed.
I may not agree with the soldiers on the streets, but we have to take back the country from the criminal elements.
I agree with you that we have to take back the country but again we are falling for the class trick.
Do we honestly believe that the BIG fish who are bringing in the guns and drugs and who are the biggest criminals and killers in our country live in these so-called hot spot areas?
I bet you the person who ordered and paid for Dana's hit lives in a big house in one of he posh so-called upper-class areas.
Until some of these big fish controlling and fueling crime go down crime and killings will not get better in corrupted and class divided T&T.
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Socapro- I agree somewhat that one social class maybe feeling the perceived oppressive measures however it takes a a" small fish" as bait to reel in the big fish. I would suffice to say. That all classes are not immune from being a victim of the senseless blatant disregard for the actions of those who live by the gun and ruthless callousness for human life.
On the other hand, part of these operations points out that the police may me overworked and are in need of this type of intervention to assist them with the level of gang activity. What people are missing out is that the level of this crime has turned to a " war like" state. The frequency of killings and attacks on citizens and the manner in which these criminals are operations is like blatant disregard and a no fear for the law. If the army's intervention is but one way to alleviate the criminals' activity and to, respond with fire on fore than so be it. The police could then divert some attention to getting at the ' bigger fish' who are not exposing their activities in the same manner as those in the hot spots.
I support the intent of the army- I will not support unwarranted attacks on the lives of innocent people. The army's actions must also not circumvent the law nor be seen as vindictive- they do have an obligation to protect the citizens of TNT from destructive threats be the threats of an internal or external nature. Remember 1990- are we naive to think that the insurrectionist were not part of a well organized 'gang' operating under the guise of a religious sect? And is it possible that some present day gangs may allegedly be connected to elements of the said religious sect ? how hypocritical that a religion is being used to harbour and to operate in a manner like this in TNT .
TNT version of organized crime is not one that appears to be for the faint of heart- the police alone have been under siege for years while murders continue to soar so if the army intervenes and is able to restore civil unrest the all the more power to this action.
The leaders of the army have been quiet and away from the public- I have never read of any uttering from the army leaders to suggest that they have any political motives or desires to have the army take over the state. Therefore, what I read from an editorial in one of the media is suggesting that the army's action is setting a dangerous precedent . In these times and given the kind of gang warfare that exist ,It not hold merit for me.
As any concerned citizen, I would like to walk the streets without fear ; remove the bars on my windows and doors; not be thinking of an unprovoked attack or be a victim of wrong place at wrong time. It would be delirious to have a peaceful existence with all in a community and not be distrustful; would be ideal to go back to the time when strangers could be welcomed in your home and be served without suspicion.
Long ago in Trinidad 'a buss head' was a level of threat to fear today is a bullet- Yes I say deploy the forces in every street every village every corner every junction . Keep the rouges at bay- empty every house that may be harbouring criminals and flush out the rats that are infesting that nation.