Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: asylumseeker on July 20, 2015, 12:23:27 PM
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Date: Tuesday, July 21 at 5:35pm EST
Venue: Hamilton Stadium, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Competition: Pan American Games
Live Stream(s): TBA
Trinidad & Tobago squad
Goalkeepers:
Montell Joseph, Jovan Sample (Central)
Defenders:
Maurice Ford (W Conn), Shannon Gomez (W Conn), Dario Holmes (Jabloteh), Alvin Jones (W Conn), Jesus Perez (NE Stars), Tristan Hodge (W Conn).
Midfielders:
Aikim Andrews (W Conn), Neil Benjamin (W Conn), Jelani Felix (Defence Force), Nathaniel Garcia (Central), Neveal Hackshaw (NE Stars), Jomal Williams (W Conn), Duane Muckette (North East Stars), Xavier Rajpaul (College of Charleston)
Forwards
Shackiel Henry (Point Fortin), Ricardo John (Virgina Tech)
Coach: Zoran Vraneš
Mexico squad:
Goalkeepers
Gibran Lajud (Tijuana), Luis Cárdenas (Monterrey)
Defenders
Javier Abella (Santos Laguna), Carlos Guzmán (Tijuana), Daniel Hernández (Atlas), Luis López (Monterrey), Hedgardo Marín (Guadalajara), Jordan Silva (Toluca), Josécarlos van Rankin C (UNAM)
Midfielders
Carlos Cisneros (Guadalajara), Kevin Escamilla (UNAM), Jonathan Espericueta (Tigres), Michael Pérez (Guadalajara), Alfonso Tamay (Puebla), Daniel Álvarez (Atlas)
Forwards
Marco Bueno (León), Uvaldo Luna (Tigres), Martín Zúñiga (América), Ángel Zaldívar (Guadalajara)
Coach: Raúl Gutiérrez
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Yes folks, yet another match versus Mexico ...
Technically, this tournament is a U-22 tourney, but I am referring to it as U-23.
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A couple of the players on the Mexican squad are of Lebanese descent.
Occasionally, the question arises on this forum as to diversity issues in the local game, and since the quarterfinal match we have had voices emerge confirming that there is diversity among fans of T&T football. (Although this diversity has long been evident among posters here).
Typically, some posters have asked why one of the largest population blocs is not heavily represented in football. Let me pose a different question as we build to today's game.
Mexico has a population (125 million) that exceeds T&T's population ... why is there Lebanese representation on a Mexican JNT and not on ours? Why the seeming lack of concern about the absence of one group, but not about the absence of others?
I will add facts as the discussion builds.
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did you'll hear dem boys planning to boycott de game because no match fees have been paid? do they realize the implications of doing dat? do they realize they are under TTOC there and not TTFA?
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A couple of the players on the Mexican squad are of Lebanese descent.
Occasionally, the question arises on this forum as to diversity issues in the local game, and since the quarterfinal match we have had voices emerge confirming that there is diversity among fans of T&T football. (Although this diversity has long been evident among posters here).
Typically, some posters have asked why one of the largest population blocs is not heavily represented in football. Let me pose a different question as we build to today's game.
Mexico has a population (125 million) that exceeds T&T's population ... why is there Lebanese representation on a Mexican JNT and not on ours? Why the seeming lack of concern about the absence of one group, but not about the absence of others?
I will add facts as the discussion builds.
Great discussion but where is it coming from? I don't see any debates on this thread about this topic..
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Great discussion but where is it coming from? I don't see any debates on this thread about this topic..
Presumably because my comment was the opening contribution? The floor is now open for comments.
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A couple of the players on the Mexican squad are of Lebanese descent.
Occasionally, the question arises on this forum as to diversity issues in the local game, and since the quarterfinal match we have had voices emerge confirming that there is diversity among fans of T&T football. (Although this diversity has long been evident among posters here).
Typically, some posters have asked why one of the largest population blocs is not heavily represented in football. Let me pose a different question as we build to today's game.
Mexico has a population (125 million) that exceeds T&T's population ... why is there Lebanese representation on a Mexican JNT and not on ours? Why the seeming lack of concern about the absence of one group, but not about the absence of others?
I will add facts as the discussion builds.
Contrary to belief, the Lebanese diaspora support the nation where they emigrate to and in most cases despite keeping cultural values, which in some circles they feel is unpatriotic, they still play the popular sports of that particular nation. However, they also have a genuine love for football that is played back home. Having close friends in LA that are Druze and that are close to us like family I have been blessed to experience their love and open mindedness. Some may have different experiences but this is my experience, maybe I'm biased.
However, in terms of Lebanese players in Mexico, I am not surprised, the richest man in Mexico is Lebanese descent and is patriotic to the nation. I believe the same could be said of these players, they are Mexicans, speak the language, eat the food, listen to Mexican music and probably date Mexican women..
In Trinidad, race politics has crippled progressive thinking and the stigma remains with many, even up to a week ago a poster on this board stated openly, Indians don't like football and laughed about it. Despite the fact I have seen very skillful players of indo descent from trini and heard stories from both sides of racial discrimination in football.. Lebanese in Mexico may have discrimination stories but I doubt it will be as pronounced as Trinidad because our cultural make up is much more complex...
Diversity in any team starts with selection, coaches almost missed Kj until an English coach saw him and took the chance.. So it is not far fetched to assume that our coaches in a lot of cases can't identify talent..
There are only a few cases where you have players like roopie who wasn't even picked up by a local team and the other player who compared to run dell but decided to play cricket because of his parents... I believe there is other cases that go unheard of where players who are not selected because maybe coaches feel they are not good enough because of race or because they have this bias in their minds where they think certain players of certain races are aligned to certain sports... Maybe a lebanase trini may be vicitmized because some feel he is rich already, let's give a poorer youth a chance at football instead, despite that Lebanese trini being more talented..
In Trinidad there are different types of discrimination present and it inhibits our team from expanding its talent search or talent pool..
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http://www.rojadirecta.me/goto/capodeportes.net/canal-1x.php
We are winning!!!!!
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Goal courtesy Ricardo John.
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Tt doing much better than expected. The midfield is threading thru Mexico like butter.
I in the mood to beat some Mexicans this evening.
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Mexico misses a penalty. Commentators say it was a controversial call to begin with!
1-0 @ 25'.
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Mexico penalty went wide. Even game so far.
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http://wrivz1.blogspot.com/p/8.html
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Good distribution by our GK per commentators.
Our possession is 39%.
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Mexico pressing now. Especially down the left. But Gomez holding it down solid
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Tt score! 2-0 Henry!
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Gooooool!!!! Shakiel! 2-0.
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Andrews could have made it 3-0! His second clear opportunity to net.
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John was very influential on the second goal.
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http://wrivz1.blogspot.com/p/8.html
Thanks for this link! :beermug:
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Mexican outside mids switched flanks to try their luck.
No worries, Pro.
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Only saw the last 10 mins.. All I can say is our future looks bright.
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I believe this MEX team to have 4 players from their U17 WC winning 2011 squad.
EDIT ... Confirmed: These four won the U17 WC...
Defender: Carlos Guzmán (Tijuana)
Midfielders: Kevin Escamilla (UNAM), Jonathan Espericueta (Tigres)
Forward: Marco Bueno (León)
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So far the Young Warriors have responded well after being defeated by Paraguay. I like this
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We have the opportunity to help send Mexico home.
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Gutiérrez took MEX to 2 successive U17 WC finals. Defeated Uruguay in the first; lost to Nigeria in the next cycle.
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2-1. Goal courtesy a reverse ball played to the top of the box.
30 minutes left in regulation.
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2-2
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Substitution: Jomal Williams in for Henry.
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Our final third decision-making in collective situations isn't well-defined. The players don't have a complete attacking idea. Although there were prep issues, experienced players should be more decisive and insistent.
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Sub time. Pull Andrews.
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Poor defending on reading reverse balls. Excellent work by the GK!
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Substitution: Dario Holmes in for Aikim Andrews.
About 5' left in regulation.
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That Andrews sub was a tad tardy.
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Must commend d young warriors tho....under a lot of pressure but I'm lovin our desire to compete...defensively as a team is one fuh all! And we standing up and playin football when we had d ball
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Unlucky 3-2 Mexico
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4-2 Mex...young warriors lost d grip....
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3-2 Mexico.
Lack of concentration. But game mgmt was also not being driven from the bench.
Now 4-2.
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didn't see the 1st half but those guys looked really bad 4 goals in 30mins.
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Ricardo John put down a good foundation for his upcoming season.
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didn't see the 1st half but those guys looked really bad 4 goals in 30mins.
They had a respectable first half. I'm disappointed that at 60' there was no move made to stymie what was coming.
Ah feel we could establish a rivalry with Mexico. Even if premature, it's a worthy target.
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Disappointed. So should I just be glad with the first 30 mins of play? Young Warriors far from being a team worthy of a medal
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After taking a 2-goal lead from Ricardo John (7) and Shackeil Henry (39), T&T Under 23 Pan American team surrounded in the second half and allowed Mexico back into the game as the El-Tri scored 4 unanswered goals within 30 minute to rally back for a 4-2 victory. The Young Warriors ends their unsuccessful campaign winless. They have scored 3 goals in the process, conceded 12 and finished last in their group. 4-0 to Uruguay, 5-1 to Paraguay and now 4-2 to Mexico. Definitely, some work to be done. Better luck next time T&T.
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Disappointed. So should I just be glad with the first 30 mins of play? Young Warriors far from being a team worthy of a medal
This team as U-20s were the Caribbean champions, by a country mile (with JA absent). On fresh legs they matched the Mexicans and were (IMO) individually more skilled, and as a team, more cohesive. The trouble came when it was time to adapt tactically and they got tired. The midfield dropped back to absorb pressure but were unable to launch counter attacks when Mexico began to move men forward and force play in the middle of the park. Some gave up too easily (Andrews), some got injured, (Henry). But most of them still battled to the end as hard as their legs would take them. Shannon Gomez is a pint sized pit bull, and fought for every ball like a man possessed. Alvin Jones, Ricardo John and a few others continued to play box to box. Vranes also waited far too long to sub Andrews, and the lost the plot after Henry came off. Sub Jomal Williams had little impact on the game.
Give this side the same level of prep and care as the Mexico team they played today and they could have at least kept up to them, and probably beaten them.
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Disappointed. So should I just be glad with the first 30 mins of play? Young Warriors far from being a team worthy of a medal
This team as U-20s were the Caribbean champions, by a country mile (with JA absent). On fresh legs they matched the Mexicans and were (IMO) individually more skilled, and as a team, more cohesive. The trouble came when it was time to adapt tactically and they got tired. The midfield dropped back to absorb pressure but were unable to launch counter attacks when Mexico began to move men forward and force play in the middle of the park. Some gave up too easily (Andrews), some got injured, (Henry). But most of them still battled to the end as hard as their legs would take them. Shannon Gomez is a pint sized pit bull, and fought for every ball like a man possessed. Alvin Jones, Ricardo John and a few others continued to play box to box. Vranes also waited far too long to sub Andrews, and the lost the plot after Henry came off. Sub Jomal Williams had little impact on the game.
Give this side the same level of prep and care as the Mexico team they played today and they could have at least kept up to them, and probably beaten them.
this team is an under 22 team (under 23 next year) players born on or after Jan 1 1993 . The team that won the caribbean cup last year was an under 19 team(under 20 team this year) players born on or after jan 1 1995 ..big difference
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HIGHLIGHTS of Trinidad and Tobago’s 4-2 loss to Mexico at the Pan American Games
https://www.youtube.com/v/DJNJp4KfSKE
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Zandolie ah fed up hear "could have", "would have" after T&T lose a match. Its rare to hear "we did not do this" "or we should have done that" or "we failed to do so".
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What BS is this? My son say T&T eat too much doubles.
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Disappointed. So should I just be glad with the first 30 mins of play? Young Warriors far from being a team worthy of a medal
This team as U-20s were the Caribbean champions, by a country mile (with JA absent). On fresh legs they matched the Mexicans and were (IMO) individually more skilled, and as a team, more cohesive. The trouble came when it was time to adapt tactically and they got tired. The midfield dropped back to absorb pressure but were unable to launch counter attacks when Mexico began to move men forward and force play in the middle of the park. Some gave up too easily (Andrews), some got injured, (Henry). But most of them still battled to the end as hard as their legs would take them. Shannon Gomez is a pint sized pit bull, and fought for every ball like a man possessed. Alvin Jones, Ricardo John and a few others continued to play box to box. Vranes also waited far too long to sub Andrews, and the lost the plot after Henry came off. Sub Jomal Williams had little impact on the game.
Give this side the same level of prep and care as the Mexico team they played today and they could have at least kept up to them, and probably beaten them.
this team is an under 22 team (under 23 next year) players born on or after Jan 1 1993 . The team that won the caribbean cup last year was an under 19 team(under 20 team this year) players born on or after jan 1 1995 ..big difference
almost half the members of this team were CC winners, not to mention all those omitted from the tourney via the visa fiasco. give this same group all mexico had and see what would happen.
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Zandolie ah fed up hear "could have", "would have" after T&T lose a match. Its rare to hear "we did not do this" "or we should have done that" or "we failed to do so".
i hear what yuh saying. but preparation=success, not so. you really expect caviar football for chicken 'n' chips money?
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Zandolie ah fed up hear "could have", "would have" after T&T lose a match. Its rare to hear "we did not do this" "or we should have done that" or "we failed to do so".
i hear what yuh saying. but preparation=success, not so. you really expect caviar football for chicken 'n' chips money?
How do you feel about our pro league in regards to assisting our players with preparation? These players are playing at home in domestic leagues. These players are not schoolboys players.
Ah seeing some basic mistakes in de back and.. yuh know what leh meh stop here ah sure yuh know where this going..
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the pl is the most successful league in the caribbean. but these teams take massive licks from mexico, costa rica, honduras, etc. once they move into the CCL.
so how is the pl preparing players to exceed concacaf standards?
in addition to more competitive leagues, these country's national associations put far greater care into all aspects of their senior and youth teams. so again...how are you expecting these guys to match the best in concacaf? if they get superior prep and they waste their opportunity that is a different story.
fail to prepare and prepare to fail!
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The manner of this loss was a concern. If you said Mexico is about two goals better before the Games began, that score is closer than would be expected. Our half baked under funded preparations will not yield success on talent alone. My question is what now? Are we going to do what it takes to mold this young team and bring them to where they need to be? You done know the answer to that.
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“Yo creo que sí hubo exceso de confianza por el antecedente que tenía Trinidad sobre sus resultados, me imagino, porque al final no lo sabes, ya que preparas el partido para empezar con todo, meter cuatro en el primero y cuatro en el segundo y resultó todo lo contrario en el primer tiempo. Pero para nosotros lo importante es esa reconversión que tuvo el equipo y la capacidad que mostró para resolver el partido en medio tiempo”.
Raúl Gutiérrez aseguró que lo que ocurrió esta tarde es una lección:
“No puedes regalar tanto, el equipo tuvo la fortuna de enfrentar a Trinidad porque con uno más capaz es complicado que suceda eso, que te den la oportunidad de voltear un marcador es difícil, entonces me parece que todos tenemos que aprender de esto”.
---Raúl Gutiérrez, Mexican U-22 NT coach
http://www.femexfut.org.mx/portalv2/aspx/WEB_DetalleNoticia.aspx?pnIDNtca=44300
Apparently, Mexico's plan was to score four goals in each half. They accomplished half of the mission.
He attributes how the first half went to overconfidence on their part. Says he considers it a lesson and that a more capable opponent would probably not have permitted the turnaround.
That's the lesson for them. What's the lesson for us?