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Messages - STMB

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1
What about Track & Field / Re: 2017 Indoor Results
« on: January 25, 2017, 09:27:12 PM »
That 20.57 from Jereem this early in the season is serious.

If he keeps up with the 200, he will be one of our best 200m runners in a very long time. That indoor 20.57 is a sign that he can get to sub 20. He will be the first Trini to run sub 20 in almost 20 years.

Boss, running a 200m on today's indoor tracks on the outside lane is like riding on a steep-banked cycling track where you can pick up some ridiculous speed via gravity. Lendore who is also a quarter miler ran 20.68, but probably can't run much faster outdoors.

2
NO UNITY IN RIO

Olympic champion Keshorn Walcott who won T&T’s only medal at the Rio Olympics which ended yesterday, has blasted the lack of team spirit and unity within the T&T camp during the Games.

“We did not do so well as a team this year because honestly, for my part, we were not a team. We did not come together as a unit as in 2012. I was young in 2012 and I was one of the younger ones and I saw the gelling of the team, but here it was not like that. I would not say it was the athletes, I would have to say it was the heads. You need to be able to understand that for a team to be able to perform properly you need to bring them together.”

Walcott, who stunned the world in London in 2012 at the age of 19 when he became the second Trinidadian to win an Olympic gold medal, said the overall environment was bad for everyone.

“It is the environment. When you as a team do not feel everybody is together (it) is like everybody is just concentrating on their own,” he added.

Asked about the pre-Olympic camp organised by the Trinidad and Tobago Olympic Committee, which was designed to bring the team together, Walcott brazenly dismissed that, “Let’s move on,” he said.

Walcott said that people needed to be aware of how tough competition is at the Olympics. “These are the best athletes in the world and people need to understand that.”

Walcott was high in praise for his coach Cuban Ishmael Lopez-Mastrapa. 

“I have so much to be thankful for my coach especially and all my team because my coach has brought me here today. He has worked with me so much I thank him. This is because of him,” said Walcott.

The Toco-born Walcott said he was again very proud of his achievement.

“I am glad that we have a medal for Trinidad and Tobago and hope for support going forward. It is not easy competing against the best, so I just to thank God for that and all he has done and continues to do for me,” said a proud Walcott.

“I am just happy to get a medal. I wanted gold but to be in the top three was good enough. It has been a tough season; not the build-up I would have wanted leading up to these Games but I just kept on trying my best,” said Walcott. 

“I wanted to win four gold medals by 2024, but now I will have to settle for three and that is my goal—to keep improving and to not be concerned by other matters.”

3
Some of you want to soft-talk this Olympic experience and conclude that all of our athletes did their very best and were just unfortunate. If we accept that, then nothing will change for the better for TTO T&F.

This Olympics was underwhelming, plain and simple - no matter how much lipstick we want to put on the pig.

When you have athletes performing worse at the Olympic Games than they did at TTO Olympic trials, that is a failure. Conditions were no worse, and most likely better at the Rio Olympic stadium (track, wind, competition, etc).

We therefore have to evaluate why not just a few, but a significant measure of our seasoned and professional athletes, receiving elite funding, and resident at world-class training groups in the US could get it so wrong. If we don't then we pissing into the wind.

I for one will not advocate calling athletes by puerile names nor offering up destructive criticism, but when they do not perform up to their capabilities then it begs a question - are they injured, are they fully-fit as they say, did they overtrain, were they mentally prepared, were they properly peaked and tapered, were the OG village accommodations inadequate, was the food in the OG village a cause of any discomfort, etc.

In a news article the team mentioned they had a GREAT camp. I beg to differ.
100m MEN
No one ran even close to their SB, OG trial times, far less their PB, at the Olympic Games, the Olympic Games people - what they all train their lives for. Given that our 100/200m sprinters are aging and in their last OG cycle, if no one comes forward to mention that they are carrying an injury/niggle, etc. then this campaign was a failure in preparation, a failure in peaking or tapering, a failure in judging ones efforts during the rounds - all extremely disappointing for an experienced group.
4x100m MEN
While we competed commendably in the semis, our experienced athletes had a lane or passing zone violation in the final, something that we have been astute enough in the past OGs to prevent. Not one athlete nor designated coach has come forward and owned up as an adult or professional to say, look it was my fault and not my intention, not one person.
4x100m WOMEN
Someone has to speak up about Khalifa St. Fort's underwhelming performance on anchor and why a change was not made. The first indication was in the semis. An 11.16 performer does not get gapped or overtaken by some of our competition (Germany and Nigeria) that hardly has that talent even on their anchor (Okagbare ran the 2nd leg). I have to assume the young lady is not 100%, because no one has voiced up to it.
4x400m MEN
This was a most disappointing result. Lalonde Gordon suffered a mental mishap that as an experienced pro, he should not have, and needs to verbally take responsibility and move on.

Maybe I'm premature here. Maybe once they leave Rio and collect their thoughts they will do so. But all we are hearing is that they all did their very best and the lost opportunities were just misfortunes. That is not what I'd expect from professionals. You are receiving all sorts of financial assistance - explain yourself.

In some of the events, we had athletes meeting the qualifying standards but did not expect medals (110m hurdles, 200m MEN and WOMEN, 400m hurdles WOMEN). Then there was the 400m hurdles MEN (why was Jehue Gordon selected). What, he get a pass because he "in the club"? He was a world champion 3 years ago but has declined (48.7, 49.2, 49.98). it is only recently we are hearing about recovery from surgery.

So to one poster,
YES, we need to revamp the entire approach including marketing, promotion, proper coaching, funding redistribution to improve the appeal and brand of T&F in TTO.
YES, some of us in the forum are actually former TTO junior and senior athletes who have experienced the hamster wheel ourselves, know what we are talking about, and want to see TTO T&F get out of this sad story cycle.

But we keep doing the same crap. Maybe you've heard the recycled story - "A world class talent or 2 comes along every 5-10 years, we ride that/those athletes back, showering them with praise, gifts and resources, like a Nobel Prize recipient, while neglecting the 99%. Then we fool the public with short memories into believing that T&F is on an upswing. When said athlete(s) pass(es) their peak we start to denigrate them and leave them out in the cold, unless they are locally connected, got an education along the way, or decide to stay abroad".

So let's be honest, objective, and analytical here. Achieving sustainable improvement will not come by chance, there is a measure of will, science, expertise, and practicality needed.

4
Cool so Lagat pulls bronze.

Or not. Chelimo reinstated with the silver.

Again, man steps out of lane, but is a US team member so protest approved - as the commentator says, should be allowed for such a nit-picky thing". Small TTO athlete steps out of lane for one step, but protest is denied and we are out of the finals that we should have easily won silver.

5
I strongly suggest the government via SporTT give SERIOUS thought to a redistribution and re-alottment within the Elite Funding Program, especially the use of funding for T&F. It obviously did not net ANY improved results for this Olympics, as was expected. It actually regressed a few decades in terms of results.

Too few PROVEN athletes receive more than enough funding than they probably need. Those most in need hardly receive any at all, or receive their relative "pittance" too late, probably because the authorities exhaust their budget and have to go find additional funds.

There also seems to be no opportunity for aid for up and coming talent showing progress, especially amongst the juniors. As such maybe they should consider the following:
1. If an athlete already has a "princely" sponsorship deal (to be defined) but performs at an elite level, they should receive a lesser-tiered sum, if they request it. A mature mindset needs to be demonstrated amongst our elite athletes, setting an example, showing that they are above the "eat-a-food/all-for-me" attitude.
2. If an athlete has an average sponsorship deal (to be defined) but performs at an elite level, until they improve to a top-tier sponsorship deal, they should receive an elevated sum that brings their total funding up near, but less than their top-tier peers.
3. A greater portion of the fund budget should be redistributed more equitably to the athletes performing at sub-elite or most-improved levels, to athletes who most sorely need the assistance and have proven their excellence in hardship.
4. In addition, junior athletes who may still consider an amateur athletic scholarship before potentially going pro, should be able to receive non-cash assistance to sustain and improve their performances, for example - annual taxi debit cards for transportation to/from training grounds/stadia, annual strength training/gym memberships, annual subscriptions to NAAA/IAAF endorsed supplements, an annual allotted number visits to sports doctors/massage therapists/psychologists, 1-2 annual assessments at high performance training centers (whether developed in T&T, or the closest in travel to T&T).
5. A new but extremely important class of funding  - for established and aspiring coaches who have been evaluated as successful via their club's performance. They should be selected to participate in a set number of IAAF-sanctioned training courses/clinics paid for the government, and conducted by visiting/invited experts (typically in the 4th quarter of a year) in time for application the following year.

Since the NAAAs is not traditionally a well funded organization, nor beholden (held accountable like the employees of SporTT), some thought needs to be given to how, and which of the 2 organizations needs to be funded and held accountable to produce results and transparency.

The government also needs to invite and credit private sector expertise to help these bodies develop professional grade programs such as:
1. Marketing T&F from an outreach perspective to draw more talent into the sport (we've talked this like a beaten drum but need a roadmap as to how to actually do this effectively)
2. Professionally officiating track meets (staying on schedule, operating timing/wind/measurement technology correctly, etc)
3. Promoting T&F events successfully to appeal more to the general public and more importantly to potentially new sponsors.

There is so much innovation and creativity that T&F organizations can tap into with help from the private sector, if an avenue for the private sector providing help is created by the government (tax credits, etc).

Traditional failure has come from the authorities giving funds to organizations who have no clue nor business in delivering those core non-athletic products/competencies to take local T&F to the next levels (sales, marketing, promotion, sports medicine, athlete image enhancement, etc).

6
What happened with Botswana?????
Botswana put their 2 fastest men in 1 and 2, then some average fellas to finish up.
They didn't run Thebe (44.22 this year), nor Nijel Amos (800m) who runs 45.5 and splits 44 mid, which would have put them in a strong gold-medal position.

The silver and bronze times would have been bettered by TTO's NR performance in last year's world championships; wasted opportunity; we continue to throw away plattered opportunities.

7
Last throw just over 72m for Keshorn

8
Rohler takes the lead with a 5th round throw of 90.30m

9
Keshorn's 5th about 77m, steps over the line to call it foul

10
Yego hurts his knee on a fouled 4th throw, expects to continue - being attended by medical.
Wow in a wheelchair, he may be counting on his lead remaining unbeaten

11
Keshorn's 4th throw 80.33m - no improvement

12
Top 12 now set for the last 3 throws

13
Rohler improves to 87.40m on his third, stays in 2nd

14
Keshorn currently in 3rd behind Yego (KEN) 88.24m, and Rohler (GER) after 3 throws - Keshorn in 85.38m.

15
Wow, 3 pseudo-women medalled in the 800m final

16
Look how America is dominating the medal table in Track and Field despite all that hate they receive (mostly from Jamaicans). Their mental toughness is sound and solid. We should learn from them
.

They know how to use their influence - Might is Right!!

First the women's 4x100m relay got back into the final via the very unusual run-off without Canada and China.
Today I'm hearing the men's 4x100m relay may get back their bronze.
They almost got Robby Andrews back in the 1500m final after he stepped off the track for a stride or 2 in his home stretch win.

Meanwhile we're still out of the 4x400m relay final for same type of infringement - ONE (NOT TWO or THREE) bleeding step out of lane by Lalonde, which to me has happened many times in the past, even at this level. I think this rule should be subject to discretion.

17
Even China cut we arse - lord this is real guava season

18
I must say Khalifa did a great job on that last leg
By CAC standards maybe, but not quite ready for prime time, wish her the best in coming years.
We need fresh talent - KAB may not be around for 2020, and we need vast improvements from the likes of SH and KS, or someone new.

19
Ato need to work some magic. The USA will get either a rerun or be put into the final. I just hear that on cbc
Aint that some bull?

Had that happened to TTO and we protested they would have said "part of the game, happens all the time, should have prepared for such an occurrence, hard luck, too bad, bye bye"

So now, they just have to run faster than China (42.70) to make the final. If I were China, I would counter-protest.

Things are a bit complicated:
"The Jury of Appeals for the Rio Games upheld the USA’s appeal, saying that Felix was indeed obstructed on the second exchange. The relay team will re-run the race alone tonight (7 p.m. ET), needing to post a time of at least 42.70 seconds to advance into the finals.

"But a successful re-run will create a second problem: Both China and Canada finished with identical 42.70-second times. Therefore, should the USA post a faster time, China and Canada would need to race again to decide which team makes the eight-country final."

20
Sub 38 is a good run, but i am not sure they can run much faster.
Disappointed with the ladies, maybe lane one was a factor. i was surprised at the running order, i thought kelly ann would lead off and semoy would run 3rd leg

They in the final, have an oppy to get it right when it counts  :beermug:

The ladies ran very well for 3 legs (no issues with SH, MLA, or KAB), they got the baton (cleanly) with Germany, then inexplicably our anchor St. Fort ran a sub-par leg getting outdistanced by an average German sprinter by almost a second and letting Nigeria go by for second. We ended up being the slowest sure qualifier before the 2 fastest losers, putting us in lane 2 or 7 in the final. That to me points to some kind of injury. if so they may need to consider running Reyare Thomas in the final, unless the issue with St. Fort was something temporary like nerves, a cold, dehydration, food poisoning, etc.
[/quote
i had a look at the race again KSF may have started too early the slowed before receiving the baton. Even taking this into account she made no impression on the german or nigerian runners. with the USA out a medal is a possibility if they run better in the final

http://www.cnc3.co.tt/press-release/tts-4x100-womens-relay-team-3rd-heat-qualify-final

21
Ato need to work some magic. The USA will get either a rerun or be put into the final. I just hear that on cbc
Aint that some bull?

Had that happened to TTO and we protested they would have said "part of the game, happens all the time, should have prepared for such an occurrence, hard luck, too bad, bye bye"

So now, they just have to run faster than China (42.70) to make the final. If I were China, I would counter-protest.

22
Sub 38 is a good run, but i am not sure they can run much faster.
Disappointed with the ladies, maybe lane one was a factor. i was surprised at the running order, i thought kelly ann would lead off and semoy would run 3rd leg

They in the final, have an oppy to get it right when it counts  :beermug:

The ladies ran very well for 3 legs (no issues with SH, MLA, or KAB), they got the baton (cleanly) with Germany, then inexplicably our anchor St. Fort ran a sub-par leg getting outdistanced by an average German sprinter by almost a second and letting Nigeria go by for second. We ended up being the slowest sure qualifier before the 2 fastest losers, putting us in lane 2 or 7 in the final. That to me points to some kind of injury. if so they may need to consider running Reyare Thomas in the final, unless the issue with St. Fort was something temporary like nerves, a cold, dehydration, food poisoning, etc.

23
Wow. Men just got in third. But Japan clearly ahead of Jamaica (w/o Bolt) in 37.68 (new Asian record)

24
Yes. Two heats, top 3 and 2 fastest losers. But placement in the heats determine the lane draw in the finals.

25
Is St. Fort still injured? That was a poor anchor in the 4x100m, we went from tied for first to maybe third.

26
So you see no coincidence that the exact set of disparate points happen to all end up in his one article the day after it was posted?

Don't worry I 'm not asking for commission. As I said glad to help

Perhaps I am simply more knowledgable on this topic.

I did an interview with Ian Morris years ago. I happened to mention the historical perspective of his 1992 time in relation to the Olympics and Gold medals. Kwame and I had practically the same paragraph. Can´t remember who wrote first but we were stating facts and thus our paragraph was basically the same. I know neither of us copied from the other.

I have some hilltop land to sell you in Cocal...steups

27
So you see no coincidence that the exact set of disparate points happen to all end up in his one article the day after it was posted?

Don't worry I 'm not asking for commission. As I said glad to help

28
Good run from Sorillo 20.27 to advance as a fast loser

Boy, it look as though only the men from Siparia bringing there A game this rounds.

29
Perspective:
Cedenio's NR 0f 44.01 would have medalled in every other Olympic Games 400m final in history.

In many it would have garnered gold or silver, and in all except this one, at least bronze.

He moved from 46th (44.34) to 15th fastest 400m performer ever.

Only Jeremy Wariner (44.00); Larry James (43.97); Kirani James (43.94); and Steve Lewis (43.87) have run faster before turning 21 (Cedenio will be 21 in September) - all are Olympic champions except Larry James an Olympic silver medallist. Nice company and great signs for his future.

I see the goodly TT journalist reads our posts, glad to help:


MAJOR PLAYER
Record-breaking Cedenio climbing fast
Published on Aug 15, 2016, 11:00 pm AST
By Kwame Laurence

BEST-EVER T&T 400m RUNNER: Trinidad and Tobago's Machel Cedenio reacts after competing in the Men's 400 metres Semifinal at the Olympic Stadium in Rio de Janeiro on Saturday.

Machel Cedenio made a strong statement on Sunday night at the Joao Havelange Olympic Stadium, here in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
The 20-year-old finished fourth in the Olympic Games men's 400 metres final, but more importantly, announced himself as a major player in what is arguably the greatest era in the one-lap event.

“It feels great,” Cedenio declared during an Express interview after the championship race. “I didn't get a medal but I still leave here with a personal best, a national record. That goes to show that I went out there and gave it my all. It just wasn't enough to be on the podium.”

Cedenio's 44.01 seconds clocking chopped a full two-tenths of a second off the previous Trinidad and Tobago record of 44.21, established by Ian Morris in the semifinal round at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics. Finally, after 24 years, a new name appears in the books.
Cedenio is not likely to surrender his T&T 400m standard for a long time. The clocking, though, seems certain to change.

“I'm still 20. I haven't reached the peak in my career. I can go faster. My body feels good right now. Me and my coach will go back to the drawing board, get stronger in certain areas, probably do more speed. We have a lot of things we need to fix, with my body still maturing. So yeah, I have confident I'll go faster than 44.01.”

The clocking earned Cedenio 15th spot on the all-time world performance list, and would have been fast enough for a medal at any other Olympic Games. The Rio 2016 final, however, featured three Olympic champions: 2008 gold medallist LaShawn Merritt of the United States; his Grenadian successor Kirani James; and the champion in waiting, South Africa's Wayde van Niekerk.

It is now history that van Niekerk, running blind in the difficult lane eight, was unchallenged for the gold medal. He successfully raced against the clock, stopping it at 43.03 seconds to erase American Michael Johnson's 17-year-old world record from the books.

“I don't regret being in this era,” said Cedenio. “Being a part of it is really something special to me. This goes to show that anything can happen. Michael Johnson's record, 43.18, was there and a lot of guys were saying it's there forever, nobody is going to break it. But van Niekerk broke it!”

James clocked 43.76 seconds for silver, while bronze went to Merritt in 43.85. Cedenio battled with his heart and soul in an effort to catch the pair. Never was the phrase “leaving it all out on the track” more applicable. Absolutely spent, Cedenio could not get to his feet after the race and was taken off the track in a wheelchair.

“My body went to a place it never went before. My body was in shock. I couldn't feel anything in my legs, so they chaired me off to the medic. I got oxygen there, and they took care of me.”

Cedenio said he's confident the T&T medical team will have him ready to spearhead the country's medal challenge in Saturday's 4x400m final.

“They're exceptional. They'll advise me accordingly to do the right stuff. I'll handle business. There are three other guys depending on me right now to make the country happy, so I'm going to go back to rehab and make sure I recover, make sure I get my massage, make sure I get my ice, and get ready for the 4x4.

“We have a great group of quartermilers, probably the best era Trinidad and Tobago has ever seen. We're definitely in medal position right now.”
Cedenio is officially the best-ever T&T 400m runner, and potentially a global great as well. Only three quartermilers in history have run faster than Cedenio did on Sunday, at a younger age: James and American Steve Lewis at 19; and another American, Jeremy Wariner at 20 years, six months. Cedenio is 20 years, 11 months.

James, Lewis and Wariner are all former Olympic champions. Cedenio is in pole position to join them. But before the 2020 Tokyo Games, the 2014 world junior champion must negotiate two IAAF World Championship meets, starting with the 2017 edition in London, England.

“I'll go for a sub-44 time at World Champs next year. These are the meets where you want to run your best. I'm going to give it my all. I know I can go faster. I still have work to put in, so I'm hoping for a sub-43. Sorry, a sub-44.”

A Freudian slip, perhaps? With van Niekerk taking the event ever so close to uncharted territory, Cedenio might very well have to re-think his goals as he challenges for global one-lap supremacy in the years ahead.

30
Morris sees relay gold after Cedenio’s record run

WALTER ALIBEY

Former national quarter-miler Ian Morris believes the time for an Olympic Gold medal in the 4x400 metre relays for T&T is now.

“This is our time to win an Olympic Gold medal so take it. Please do not let this opportunity go to waste, I am begging you runners,” Morris pleaded yesterday during an interview with the Trinidad Guardian.


Cedenio, a past student of Presentation College, San fernando, produced an explosive burst of speed while challeneging for the gold medal from Lane 3 in the men’s 400 metres finals at the Olympic Stadium in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil on Sunday night. The 20-year-old featuring in the fastest One-lap race in history, eclipsed the previous national 400 metres record (44.21) set by Ian Morris at the semi-final stage at the Barcelona Olympics in 1992, when he raced to the finish-line in 44.01 but had to settle for fourth place.

The gold medals was won by South African Wayde Van Niekerk, who ran from lane 8 in a world record time of 43.03 with Grenadian Kirani James second in 43.76  and American Lashawn Merrit third in 43.85.

Befor the race Cedenio had said: “I will need to go below the national record because there are three men with sub 44 times, and they are running fast.”

In his analysis, Morris explained the United States team will be dependent on Lashawn Merrit who will be required to perform in the 200 metres, which will place the US team under tremendous pressure, while other main contenders like Bahamas are not at full strength presently.

The former footballer, who made athletics his career for two decades while contesting the 200, 400 and 800 metres events, believes the T&T team is equipped with quarter-milers who are capable of 44-seconds performances at any given time.

“We have Machel Cedenio who is an outstanding athlete along with Jarrin Solomon, Renny Quow, Deon Lendore and of course Lalonde Gordon, all of whom can produce at the 400 metres, so our chance is greater than any other in the world right now,” Morris explained.

Morris who produced a sensational run in the 400 metres final at the 1992 Barcelona Olympic Games that saw him finish fourth in a new national record time of 44.25 seconds, is hoping that all the quarter-milers will feed positively off Cedenio who, apart from finishing fourth in the Olympic 400 metre final on Sunday night, also broke Morris’s 24-year old national record of 44.21 seconds set in the semi-finals rounds in Barcelona, with a new benchmark of 44.01.

The 4x 400 metre relays will be the last event on the calendar of events at the Olympics and it produces the country’s only chance of at a gold medal in that event, Morris said.

He lashed out at the performances of some athletes, saying they seem to be running for themselves and not the country.

According to Morris, who hails from Siparia: “A number of runners, with the exception of Cedenio, Semoy Hackett, Gordon and Michelle Lee Ahye, have been going through the motions at the Olympics.

These are runners who have benefitted from the Elite Athletes Funding towards their preparations, and yet, they look anything like they want to win. I am not talking about winning medals only, but we must see a greater effort from them. We need to see a greater effort from our athletes.”

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