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Messages - willi

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1
HPTC wont help you with Carifta results. Try the other shortfalls you mentioned...dedicated Sports College, school based competitive system, etc.

If you think you see the best of Jamaica at Carifta, you are mistaken. They are Champs drained.
Besides, our system is only slightly less dysfuctional than yours!
Look at WY Champs last year. Jamaica topped the WORLD. HPTC didnt do that.

As for talent, you have a smaller population and 50% is Asian, so big sprint disadvantage there already. Having said that numbers dont tell all, as no country can get more than 3 athletes per event in the Olys anyway, so the "nearly as many in finals" comment is misleading and reflect wrong thinking. If we have Bolt/Blake/Asafa in a 100m final and you have Bledman and RT, you think that is comparable?

As for 400m record, it would be far better by now if Bolt stuck to 400m, if Gonzalez was not so injury prone or if Blake and other sprinters took it it. Never mind that though, as we have a great wave coming up. When we had 3 class 2 boys running 44point at Champs 2013 and the 13 year Old Chris Walker from Cbar running 48 low, then we should not worry. Throw in Bann and Bloomfield and the future is bright. Oh and Forte may do 200m/400m combo too.


Just as you mention the what-ifs about the 400m, well what if Darrel Brown's mentor (Nestor Bown) a chain-smoking, UWI librarian who never ran a day in his life had not died just as DB was reaching his prime, being not-wisely persuaded to leave his charge and move to Auburn to seek "better horizons" in the US, then T&T should have won the gold in the 100 and 200 in the 2004 Olympics. But as much as we might extrapolate on DB or what Bolt or his partner woulda/coulda done in the 400m it did not happen, and will not happen (Bolt simply does not enjoy the 400m and I suspect knows he has limitations) in that last 100m as awesome as he is in up to the 300m.

Don't let hubris get to you, appreciate the supportive culture, coaching and talent you have, but don't think for a moment that the other islands can't produce athletes as spectacular, history has shown different. One of those 44 legs came from Delano Williams, and well Zharnel brush off most of that talent you just talk about in the 100m. Between the Guadeloupean hurdler and the sprinters from Barbados, Trinidad and the Cayman Islands the future is bright for the entire region.

Case in point neither Richard Thompson nor Deon Lendore made a significant dent in their Carifta or Penn Relays years, but they did and are more than making up for it, and as we have always argued and used in favor of or against points, all that junior talent does not filter to the top with early peaking, injuries, disinterest, burn out, etc.

Hubris???
Hahahahahaha

You must think I am a waggonist? Go ask Flex. Its from 1997 that I set up the Carib T&F forum with his help. I know when we were happy for a single bronze. I am not waggonist chestbeater, rather a realist who knows what O'clock ah strike.

If Bolt dedicated himself to the 400m, the WR is gone, no question! Limitations? Do you know many SERIOUS knowledgable inside people think Bolt's best event could have been the 800m?

44point leg? You forgot that Super Donx ran that in Moscow last year as a schoolers, 44.00s leg to be exact? Our 400m problem has been nothing more tha 100meter-itis! That is where the money is and that is where they all gravitated to. LaShawn Merrit and I spoke about that a few years ago in Lausanne, and its the reason why he tried to bait Bolt to race him at 300m or 400m. The money currently follows Bolt and Merritt wisely wants a piece.

Now, I am not foolish enuff to think that Jamaica has all the talent in the caribbean, as Jehue/Kirani/KAB/RT/Walcott/Braithwaite/Kim/etc have all had good to great transitions to the senior level. At the same time, I urge you to recoil from going to the other extreme to say we all have the same quantity of talent. The evidence is NOT there. Jamaica has 50% of the Anglo-Caribbean population and most of that with West African sprint genes, so we do seem to have a natural numerical advantage. Even with that, we wont have a monopoly, but we currently seem to be nurturing the harnessed talent better than most, despite domestic dysfunctionality.

Finally, Zharnell is a pro at Racers and barely beat Minzie at Champs, coming from behind. He is the best at the moment for his age level and is a pet of Mills, but he cant touch the train-line of seniors above him, including Forte/Skeene/Delano/Murphy/Todd/Livermore/Harvey/Young/ etc who will peak later this year. I dont even put Dexter Lee in bunch, and we all know about Carter/Bolt/Blake/Ashmeade/Weir/Frater/Asafa and a few others who have escaped my memory now.

Point is, its hard for everyone transitioning to a stocked senior level, so attention to detail is critical at this juncture.

BTW, I want to reiterate that I respect you as a fan of this sport, so dont take any disagreement as more than that. I read your posts and take them seriously.

2
Willi, ok you made your point. HPTC may not help us. But TF in TT need its own dedicated facility. Like the man explain above, the stadia home are multi purpose facilities and depending on who has "strings" with the govament, they does get priority. We have to take a different approach to improve our performance at the developmental level. Credence to JA, they have their solid foundation. Ours is made of sand. We have to put some concrete in ours.

I agree with you and THAT IS MY POINT. I believe di man (STMB) was conflating. TnT has many T&F problems. The solutions at the Jnr level are different to the solutions needed for the senior level.

Dedicated facilities is one thing, but coaching and competitive environment are more urgent at the Jnr level. For the Snr level, you need a transition strategy, that keeps athletes healthy, motivated and economically secure within reason.

STMB, nothing against you as I can feel your passion. Just suggesting that you dont need to reinvent the wheel and should not shy from taking good ideas from wherever. Just make sure to isolate the individual problems, so they can be addressed appropriately. Facility alone is not the cure all. Jamaica has faaar less facilities than TnT, but uses them much more efficiently.

3
HPTC wont help you with Carifta results. Try the other shortfalls you mentioned...dedicated Sports College, school based competitive system, etc.

If you think you see the best of Jamaica at Carifta, you are mistaken. They are Champs drained.
Besides, our system is only slightly less dysfuctional than yours!

Look at WY Champs last year. Jamaica topped the WORLD. HPTC didnt do that. HPTC is what helps us with the transition to the Pros from Jnr ranks and it is open to everyone, not just Jamaicans. Puerto Rico has a HPTC too, but that is just facilities, devoid of real buzz.

As for talent, you have a smaller population and 50% is Asian, so big sprint disadvantage there already. Having said that numbers dont tell all, as no country can get more than 3 athletes per event in the Olys anyway, so the "nearly as many in finals" comment is misleading and reflect wrong thinking. If we have Bolt/Blake/Asafa in a 100m final and you have Bledman and RT, you think that is comparable?

As for 400m record, it would be far better by now if Bolt stuck to 400m, if Gonzalez was not so injury prone or if Blake and other sprinters took it up. Never mind that though, as we have a great wave coming up. When we had 3 class 2 boys running 46point at Champs 2013 and the 13 year Old Chris Walker from Cbar running 48 low, then we should not worry. Throw in Bann and Bloomfield and the future is bright. Oh and Forte may do 200m/400m combo too.

4
i am not holding my breadth on any HPC in TT in the near future. First off all TF need there own facilities, NOW. NOT NEXT WEEK, BUT NOW. FOR TF ONLY.  Let's start there first, then come back talk HPC.

An HPC, Center of Excellence, whatever you want to call it is exactly that - a TF only facility. Even if Puma or Adidas were to gift a track tomorrow in any location of asking, you still need a maintenance crew, it is no good without a resident quality coach or two, no good without equipment storage, no good without an adjoining strength training facility. Call it what you want (HPC-lite) we need done.

Short term however the greatest need is quality coaching knowledge of new techniques or refreshers for all existing and any new coaches (in numbers). The fundamental difference I see between Jamaican athletes and us is conditioning, technical form, race strategy, and that air of confidence (expectation to win). That requires the least investment, and can bring the greatest short term impact, with or without promises of facilities or structured programs.

What HPTC have to do with Carifta? These are school kids and most have never seen the inside of the HPTC in Jamaica...that is mainly for elite senior athlertes. Jamaica's dominance comes from the large number of quality H-School coaches we have that have spewed out of the GC Foster Sports College. This has been going on for 30 years now. How old is the HPTC in Jamaica?

5
The Mills article is 2 years old. Last Champs 2013 had 27records set. We then went on to "win" our first Global, ie the W-Youth in Ukraine and set 1 WY record and a few Championship medals. Does this imply the elite athletes peaked for Champs?

Regarding what Asafa said...how does that trump watching the race with your own 2 eyes and seeing the obvious?

so willi are you saying those athletes were not training the run their best at champs in that 100m?

Dont study me. Look at the past as an example. You only have a few months to way and see. WJs is coming in a few months.

6
What about Track & Field / Re: Meanwhile in Jamaica T&F News Thread!
« on: April 04, 2014, 10:43:39 AM »
Its hard to be a pure sprinter in Jamaica now. 3 Oly spots and Blake and Bolt sew up 2. Thank God for W. Champs

Then you have Asafa/Carter/Forte/Jason Young/Warren Weir/ Livermore/Murphy/Skeene/Dexter Lee/Lerone Clarke/Ashmeade/Roach/the yute Franno lost to Braumann in the US last year...Jacques harvey/Bailey-Cole/ 2 or 3 more from Akan Track club/Todd/ Forsythe/and I am sure I miss a few.

7
The Mills article is 2 years old. Last Champs 2013 had 27records set. We then went on to "win" our first Global, ie the W-Youth in Ukraine and set 1 WY record and a few Championship medals. Does this imply the elite athletes peaked for Champs?

Regarding what Asafa said...how does that trump watching the race with your own 2 eyes and seeing the obvious?

8
UK Athletics must be licking their chops for the 2015 WChamps and 2016 OlyGames 4x100m relays

They technically now have access to the following:
1. Zharnel Hughes with a British passport as an Anguillan (hard to turn down their generous lottery funding)
2. Delano Williams (already running for them)
3. Adam Gemili
4. James Dasaolu
5. Richard Kilty (60m Indoor World Champ)
I think Jamaica is also trying to entice Zharnel Hughes to run for them but I guess if Anguilla is not an independent Caribbean country and are still a British colony then Jamaica will be in competition with Britain to gain his services.
I believe his mother is a Jamaican now living in Anguilla while his father is Anguillan so he views himself as half Jamaican which should give the Jamaicans an advantage in attracting him to represent them.

I believe Jamaica was also trying to get Delano Williams to represent them but lost him to the lure of the generous British lottery funding.
Jamaica never entices any runner. Frankly the youth cant make Jamaica side  for at least 2 years at the earliest, so he should try elsewhere. Right now Jamdung overflowing. Even we Jakan fans cant keep a track. Man like Jason Young, the Akan sprinters (Livermore, etc) and  youth progidies like Dexter Lee are easily forgotten, but come Trials they can scalp many a fancied runner.

9
Socapro these Jamaican  athletes peak for  champs i am pretty sure if Farinha was in one of their school programs he would have been on par or maybe even ahead  of them.. he ran that 10.18 alone

Where you get that foolishness from? W-Juniors is this year. That is the Peak goal for the elites.

And that 10.18s was not "alone", he had company for 70mtrs.

10
Sub-10 at 14? Surely you jest.

Even if it were remotely possible, it would be developmental suicide.

You must mean sub 11s.

Talk to you all at Carifta, it looks to be a good one again this year. Jamaica and TnT seem to have good teams.

11
What about Track & Field / Re: The future has arrived.
« on: April 03, 2014, 04:42:37 AM »
Good talk Ato.

Comes from years of experience.

Did this writer see SAF-P coming? LoL

12
What about Track & Field / Re: 2011 Carifta Games.
« on: September 29, 2012, 04:19:27 AM »
Not just Bolt. Mills is tkking over the 400m program at Racers and MVP has Rusheen McDonald and Denard Coote in development.

This is much speculation that since the short sprints are too packed in Jamaica than many will be forced to step up to 400m like Ashmeade, Ramone McKensie, Dexter Lee, Marvin Anderson, Jason Young, etc.

We could see a tectonic shift to 400m in Jamaica in the blink of an eye.

13
What about Track & Field / Re: 2011 Carifta Games.
« on: September 24, 2012, 04:55:18 AM »
TNT has a good amount of 400m runners!

I could only name two. We might not even have a 4x400 for world champs.

See it there now. Unno have Lalonde Gordon, Jehue Gordon, Renny Quow, Rondel Sorillo, Deon Lendore, Jarrin Solomon, Machel Cedenio...

15
New national record for the mens 4x400 (Quow, Gordon, Solomon, Lendore).

3:00:45

This is proof that we have a chance of reaching the podium with this team.


Throw in Jehue and the side is deadly!

16
It could happen indeed.

17
Never write off SAFP.

18
What about Track & Field / Re: T&T bid for Carifta improvement
« on: April 08, 2012, 01:56:24 AM »
Carifta Games Medal table

Jamaica 25 (12, 6, 7)
Bahamas 14 (6, 3, 5)
Guadeloupe 3 (1, 1, 1)
British Virgin Islands 2 ( 1, 1,0)
Trinidad and Tobago 5 (0, 3, 2)
Bermuda 2 (0, 1, 1)
St. Lucia 1 (0,1,0)
Curacao 1 ( 0, 1, 0)
French Guyana 1 (0, 1, 0)
St. Kitts/Nevis 1 (0, 1, 0)
Guyana 1 (0, 0, 1)
Barbados 1 (0, 0, 1)
Martinique 1 (0, 0, 1)
Dominica 1 (0, 0, 1)

19
What about Track & Field / Re: Women’s 100m Sub-11 Club!
« on: September 22, 2011, 07:08:42 AM »
10.96s in the final, but it may have been windy.

20
What about Track & Field / Re: IMHO Jamaicans on 'juice'
« on: September 22, 2011, 07:03:40 AM »
History will be the judge, but too many of their sprinters are running ultra quick times. That 19.26 by Blake, yesterday, confirmed it for me. The guy did not even look 'flat out'.

Remember, Flo Jo, Marion Jones and the chinese middle and long distance runners in the 1990s never tested positive.

according to a good friend of mine who trained with guys like donovan bailey and surin, when you reach a certain level, juice is a normal part of the program

So is RIP thompson juicing then? Isnt he a 9.85s man...almost at the level of DB who ran a PB 9.84s?
Careful, as the same knife that sticks sheep sticks goats.

And, no, I am not even trying to defend Blake as I am not privileged to any of these guys routines, BUT Blake has been a treasure since high school, a PEARL really. Ato even annointed him back in 2007 Carifta games as the ONE to watch for the future.

21
What about Track & Field / Re: IMHO Jamaicans on 'juice'
« on: September 22, 2011, 06:58:46 AM »
And YB has already failed a drug test for a banned substance in 2009, so he is not exactly Mr innocent.

Im done, because you keep answering, despite saying you are done.

It was not banned per se, but fell under the clause "all related substances". Try again.

22
What about Track & Field / Re: IMHO Jamaicans on 'juice'
« on: September 22, 2011, 06:55:45 AM »
Socapro you are missing my point. MJ never tested positive. She confessed, that is 2 different things.

Secondly, it is clear that you will believe anytime anyone runs, so long as they have not tested positive or confessed to drug taking. That my friend is a very naive view.
Not true. MJ tested postive for EPO for the A sample and put in an objection which delayed the B sample test. By the time it was tested, the B sample came back negative as it had sufficiently degraded. The EPO test was not so robust and needed a fast turnaround time. She got off on that technicality.

23
What about Track & Field / Re: Women’s 100m Sub-11 Club!
« on: September 22, 2011, 06:45:55 AM »
Grace Jackson ran a sub11 in Seoul, 1988.

24
Okay, I was being lazy, found it myself!!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/yYIrx54A4uU" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/yYIrx54A4uU</a>

Nice 60m run from Shelly. KAB looking real dangerous.

Jeter coach said he aint buying the possum from SAF. LoL

25
What about Track & Field / Re: D. Brown
« on: August 01, 2011, 07:49:45 PM »
hmm glad 2see he is coming back 2 form!!! now i will say this! some may take this as a joke! but...mark my words!! darrel brown will hit d 9.5  mark! i dont know wen..but i do no it will happen soon! the mark i saw was 9.51! i saw!(i have no knowledge of track and field)..so i can be refuted!..but the reason for my belief and saying is that...i saw it!! 2years ago! or 3years ago! mind you it was a vision! and it was real!!. so gradually seeing his progress!! especially being injury free! is a plus!! just hope he remains so!!

It's posts like these that made Trinity say the things he said about Brown

EXACTLY!! and then men will say I doh like de man.  Steups...He cyar make 9.5 unless he running a 89 meter race....if is ah real 100 he need a Harley Davidson motorcycle to make that.

lol. The thing is that 10.04 with 2.9m/s is still a sign of improvement. I am predicting a legal 10.0s for DB by the end of the season. Trust me, the relay will be DB-KB-MB-RT or KB-MB-DB-RT. MB will show up some time soon. If not EC or AA will replace. They breaking the national record with a 37.4s once MB in the line up.

37.4?? Yuh serious?

26
Football / What's the scoop on Warren Archibald?
« on: August 01, 2011, 07:44:51 PM »
I met one of his relatives recently and heard he was a big thing in the 1970s.

Please educate me.

27
What about Track & Field / Re: 2011 CAC results
« on: July 17, 2011, 03:05:54 AM »
Congrats to the entire team. The women's team have shown me that they can go sub 43s. Magnolia Howell runs 11.8/9's or a bit slower. Ayanna showed that she is stuck in that 11.5/7 range abroad yet they still ran 43.47! Add kai selvon and Kelly-ann to that team with some solid passes and you have a sub 43s team. Yes that tnt team should really have beaten the jam team but congrats to them. Don't know what's up with josanne I hoped bellile was there to secure that gold but dunno what happen. Overall a great meet.
That Jam team you dissing has the commonwealth champ, the 2010 National Champ, and the reigning world junior champ. Not chump change!

28
What about Track & Field / Re: Government Intervention
« on: July 12, 2011, 04:54:29 AM »
Jamaica has a lot of mineral resources. Bauxite and gypsum come to mind readily! We just dont do a good job of managing it.

29
What about Track & Field / Re: Machel Cendenio- Unbelievable talent
« on: July 09, 2011, 07:29:31 AM »
Machel made the final with the 4th fastest qualifying time of 47.12.
His work is cut out for him to medal as he is drawn in lane 2.

http://www.iaaf.org/wyc11/results/eventCode=4528/racedate=07-07-2011/sex=M/discCode=400/combCode=hash/roundCode=sf/results.html#detM_400_hash_sf

Well Machel placed 4th in the WY 400m boys final in a PB of 46.89  :beermug: :beermug:, he did his best
The winner Arman Hall of the US was unquestioned at 46.01

Congrats to Cedenio. He will certainly take gold next year in this event, as he will still eligible. If needs to improve the beginning of his race. His reaction to the gun also needs to improve.
Noo he wont!

There is No world Youth next year!

Next year is World Juniors and he will go up against older boys. He could still win that, but his shot at World YOUTH has passed.

30
What about Track & Field / Re: Kelly-Anne 10.94
« on: July 08, 2011, 12:55:40 PM »
Kellyann has not even run into shape as yet and yet only 4 females have run faster than her this. Fellas I would say that is a scary thing for the rest of the world My money on her this yr at Worlds

Bwoy Paceman, I have to take back what I said. She looks Good!!!

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