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Messages - pecan

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Asylum, can you point me to examples of his "radicated bias and veiled bias"? I don't see it. But then again,  I have been accused of being naive when it comes to racism.

Racism? Who the hell is talking about racism?


Come nah man ... we both know that Ramgoat's comments were extrinsic to my statements. You asked me what my words meant, and then you stated that you have been "accused of being naive when it comes to racism" ... the suggestion being that I was charging Tiresais with racism.

Sorry, my racism comment was not meant to imply what you inferred. I edited what I had originally written and the final result did not convey what I was trying to say.

What I was trying to say is that my naivety (and I used racism as a example because race was part of the ongoing discussions that was triggered by Ramgoat's "white people" comment) often prevents me detecting underlying messages. So someone may be behaving in a racist fashion to my family and I simply do not see it even though it is right in front of my face. So the analogy I was trying to make is that I do not see Tiresais's "radicated bias and veiled bias" and perhaps the reason for this is that I am naive - the same way I am naive about racism - the key word is "naive" not "racism".

And my "Ramgoat" reply reflected what Ramgoat had just posted.

Asylum, can you point me to examples of his "radicated bias and veiled bias"? I don't see it. But then again,  I have been accused of being naive when it comes to racism.

Racism? Who the hell is talking about racism?


Asylum, can you point me to examples of his "radicated bias and veiled bias"? I don't see it. But then again,  I have been accused of being naive when it comes to racism.

Tiresais, to what extent did slavery benefit the USA? So far the discussions have focused on eastern hemisphere

I have been reading the recent exchanges between Tiresais and Asylum/Toppa. I am not schooled in the subject matter as these posters appear to be, notwithstanding their respective criticisms of each other’s knowledge and understanding of the issue. The “contempt” put forth by Tiresais is no more or less than the “contempt” put forth by his detractors - some may argue even less.

Tiresais, your problem is that what you have argued is unpopular and an affront to some as it attacks the very nature of what they hold near and dear to their hearts. When this occurs, a natural reaction is to reject your argument while ignoring the evidence that supports your position. But if I am to draw a conclusion, I would have to side with you as I remained unconvinced by the counter-arguments.

Asylum and Toppa, I was hoping that you would have delivered compelling arguments; instead you both chose to respond with comments that did carry any evidence-based weight that furthered your cause. In fact, Asylum’s comment that “This is a Trinbago forum ... you should be mindful of the audience, rather than presupposing that responses are rooted exclusively in scholarly contention” seems to suggest that scholarly arguments that critique a popular theory/hypothesis/belief should be tempered to avoid “pushback” and hurting the sensibilities or feelings of its members.

The original debate about skin colour and slavery seems to have devolved into whether Tiresais should be allowed to argue his position without challenging the work by Dr. Williams. The very essence of scholarly research is to acquire knowledge and if that means challenging well established works, then so be it. And in many cases, it may not be necessary to personally review foundational material if other scholars have already done so. While ideal, it simply may not be required.

With respect to slavery, the propensity to subjugate other races is more likely related to who wielded the bigger stick at the time of conflict. This propensity has nothing to do with skin colour and I would be surprised if that is the case. What the Europeans did vis-ŕ-vis Africa and other countries they colonized was heinous and just plain wrong but likely no different than what other peoples, with superior firepower, would have done at that juncture in humanity’s history. Given the inherent violence in human nature, I find it difficult to accept that any society united by race, culture or geography would have behaved any differently if their military might was superior to that of the Europeans; a common characteristic of human behaviour is that we are wont to kill each other – just take a look around at the world today – mind you, we are getting better.

Asylum, Toppa, make your case; instead of arguing that Tiresais arguments are not worthy of debate, prove him wrong (i.e., stop arguing semantics, or that he is wrong because he is wrong (or brainwashed as per Socapro) - that type of argument is for the school yard). As it stands, his arguments, to us unwashed, seems to carry a hell of a lot more weight than what you and others have collectively presented.

Football / Re: Green picks USA over Germany
« on: March 28, 2014, 01:34:13 PM »
If I were a theist, I would thank God for this intervention

Football / Re: Green picks USA over Germany
« on: March 28, 2014, 10:02:25 AM »
Being a latecomer to the scene, I did not observe the original title. Will someone please post the Title that generated the scourge of so many?

Asylum,  you may be on to something.

Ever saw a Hindu God perched on top of an ostrich? No but present are elephants and cobra snakes..Animals indigenous to India... I'm talking about the facial structures and the texture of the hair etc. Christianity may have been in Africa before the slave trade but the slave trade directly allowed for its mass adoption. The predominant religion in Mexico is Catholicism. This is a direct result to the Spaniards arriving.

That is not what you posted. this is what you said:

"Really? So please tell me why do the other races all have deities that looks just like them and represent their cultures and history?"

Here is what you also said: Can black people really be christians when the only reason they know about christ is through the slave trade.

But you are allowed to change your argument when the first attempt fails.

@Pecan...Who is to say that 200 years from now we wouldn't be looked as backward because we didn't allow people to marry and have sex with animals.

We've been told that capitalism allows for prosperity. That's still a concept that's foreign to some communities.

I cant say what will happen 200 years from now. But to compare a relationship between consenting adults to a human-animal relationship. where there is an imbalance or power is a non sequitar.

I would rather live in a capitalistic than a communistic society. What would you propose as an alternative to capitalism? A north Korea style society?

... Can black people really be christians when the only reason they know about christ is through the slave trade.

This is shit talk.  You really need to educate yourself on certain matters before you open your mouth and make yuhself sound ignorant.

Really? So please tell me why do the other races all have deities that looks just like them and represent their cultures and history?

Ever look at a Hindu god? blue, green and many-handed? I have yet to see a Indian looking like that. Congo, you should really use Google a little when it comes to commenting on this particular topic.

As I said, Christianity was in Africa before the slave trade. Plus I don't Christians know what their God looks like. Jesus was a man but was also divine.

If you really begin to question history you would come up with uncomfortable answers. Can black people really be christians when the only reason they know about christ is through the slave trade.

That's what links homosexuality with race. Now it's "white" people telling us that homosexuality should be accepted and if you don't then something is wrong with you. It was them who outlawed it in the first place but now it's cool because they say that it is. It's amazing that the most valuable and in demand resources in the world are what they control or can get their hands on.

I was studying capitalism today. That whole concept is evil and downright cruel at best. Discard food if you can't make a profit out of it etc. I'm sure other cultures had much better and neighborly economic policies that combated poverty and starvation. 

cursory internet searches suggest Christianity was in Africa well before the slave trade.




I am not addressing the homosexual part as I done with that topic.

Capitalism is very effective as achieving prosperity. When combined with philanthropy, much good can result.

@Pecan...I don't think there are any solutions that could right any wrongs. At the end of the day, the stronger party will always advantage the weaker one. We can't change that. At best, you can educate yourself and know and understand your history but history is also written by the victors. We keep seeing movies made about slavery but we never see movies about black people before slavery. I was watching the new 300 movie and I was wondering to myself how the hell can America make a movie about Greek history. In an ideal world, the 300 story would be told by Greeks and made with Greek actors right but such is the world we live in.

fair enough with respect to righting wrongs. I would take it one step further. to quote Desmond Tutu:

""Doesn’t forgiveness let the person who hurt you off the hook? Forgiveness isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free card. Forgiving doesn’t let the other person off the hook, it lets you off the hook—when you forgive you choose to no longer be a victim." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu

@ Congo: what do you propose as the solution to right all wrongs?

In no particular order

1) New avatar. Troll and a Ramgoat
2) No more LBGT activism on this forum; my position has been stated. So no comment on faggots unless it is a firebrand.
3) I hope Olivia don't win, for that matter too, Ford has worn out his welcome. Just leaves Tory who may be too right wing for you I suspect.
4) Hmmmm ... Sweat rice for Ford? Not Jamaican so he might object.

Asylum, the obliqueness of your posts often have me pulling out my decipher books (in addition to the dictionary too ;D).to figure out what yuh saying.

Let me give it a shot

1) If the forum policy on "racism" is to be observed, then isn't Tireais initial comment about Ramgoat's "white people" comment relevant? yet you censured him but have now quoted forum policy that seems to support Tiresais comments as well as the reason for Flex's warning. I trying to work it out but failing miserably.

2) "unbolded silence" - I admit I did recently use 1 point, white typeface to make a comment. But I don't think you referring to that .. or are you? or are you now referring to the evolution of this thread from homosexuality to racism?

3) Is the detention for my Manicou avatar as per Dutty?

4) I going to TO tomorrow. Any messages you want me to pass on Olivia Chow or Rob Ford - If I see them on the subway? Does Olivia Chow's platform have substance?

Asylum, if we buy into your argument,  then Flex need to retract his warning. I must conclude that Flex viewed ramgoat's post as inflammatory and not as potentially ambiguous as I think you suggest.

Football / Re: Toronto FC Thread
« on: March 24, 2014, 08:33:48 AM »

To those in the know, is that scenario likely?

24 Mar 2014, National Post - By Neil Davidson, The Canadian Press

Defoe’s success sets up summer without him

Every goal Jermain Defoe scores for Toronto FC helps the MLS club climb out of the soccer sinkhole that was its home for the last seven seasons.

But each goal celebration also means that the 31-yearold striker may be a step closer to earning a spot on England’s World Cup squad, taking him away from Toronto.

Unlike his final days at Tottenham, Defoe is the first name on the team sheet in Toronto. And with three goals in his first two MLS games, Defoe was tied for the league lead in scoring going into play Sunday despite the fact Toronto (2-0-0) has already had a bye.

Despite a poor pitch, the 5 -foot-7 143-pound Defoe could have scored five goals Saturday. Instead he settled for the winner in a 1-0 victory over D.C. United.

He hit the post once and was a threat every time he got the ball near the penalty box.

“When it falls for a player of his quality — and you’ll see [it] with [Brazilian strike partner] Gilberto as well — you’re surprised when it kind of doesn’t go in,” Toronto manager Ryan Nelsen said.

“It might have been, again no disrespect, probably the other way — surprised if it did go in in the past [with previous TFC strikers].”

While Nelsen wants his English star to succeed and knows that as Defoe goes, so will Toronto, there must be a small part of him that wants to retain Defoe’s services for the entire season.

“I’ve got to watch what I say here because if I was [England manager] Roy Hodgson, I’d pick him in a heartbeat,” Nelsen said with a wry smile. “But if I’m Ryan Nelsen, I probably might be thinking another thing.

“Over his career, he’s just got a natural ability to do what you’ve seen out there [Saturday] and what you saw last week. And look, he’s not going to score every game, he’s going to have these [off ] games as all human beings do.

“If he keeps this up, he can’t do anything more as a striker, can he? But we’ve got to help him get even better. We’ve got to try to improve him in every way we can. So if he does get that call-up, like Michael [Bradley], like Julio [Cesar], that they’re ready and they’re going to represent their country.”

Bradley, an influential midfielder for the U.S. and Cesar, Brazil’s goalie, are both certain to be called up for the World Cup, which runs from June 12 to July 13.

Defoe is battling a group of England strikers that includes Manchester United’s Wayne Rooney and Danny Welbeck, Liverpool’s Daniel Sturridge and Southampton’s Rickie Lambert and Jay Rodriguez (who scored in front of Hodgson on Sunday in a game against Tottenham).

The Toronto FC forward has 19 goals in his 55 England appearances. But only Lambert, at age 32, is older. If Rooney, Sturridge and Welbeck are the main men, then there might be an inclination to take along a younger striker with an eye to the future.

The other argument is experience is a good thing. Especially when the veteran is in a rich vein of goal-scoring form.

MLS has scheduled a twoweek break between June 1125, which essentially covers the first round of the World Cup. Sixteen nations will be eliminated from the World Cup after that.

Toronto hosts the San Jose Earthquakes on June 7 and visits the New York Red Bulls on June 27. It has seven league games scheduled in July.

While Toronto has strengthened its starting 11 substantially this season, it lacks depth. Losing stars to the World Cup — or injury — will take its toll. The good news is that Joe Bendik, last year’s starter in goal, is waiting in the wings for when Cesar rejoins Brazil.

Hodgson is slated to name his 30-man provisional squad before a May 30 friendly with Peru at London’s Wembley Stadium. England will then travel to Miami to play exhibition games against Ecuador on June 4 and Honduras on June 7 before travelling to Brazil.

So TFC’s World Cup players will likely need time off before the tournament and definitely after. Having represented New Zealand at the World Cup, Nelsen knows firsthand the toll the tournament can take on players.

In the meantime, Toronto is winning games it probably wouldn’t have last season.

And it’s not just the highpriced additions like Defoe, Bradley, Gilberto and Cesar leading the way. Canadians Doneil Henry and Jonathan Osorio are key parts of the starting 11 while captain Steve Caldwell, a hard-nosed Scot, continues to lead from the back.

Nelsen says there is a new hardness and determination to his team.

“That game would really probably have been a banana skin for us last year, definitely,” he said of the D.C. United clash. TFC found several ways to turn wins into draws and turn draws into losses in the closing minutes of games last season.

Toronto’s next outing, a road game against Real Salt Lake (1-0-2) next Saturday, presents a stiffer test. Toronto is 1-5-0 in Utah.


General Discussion / Re: Google's Android unveiled
« on: March 23, 2014, 03:29:32 PM »

Bought the Moto G have to wait till Fri. will try and post some pics of it for those interested in it. And a small review. Need to buy a case for it now 

Just accepted the notification to upgrade to Kit Kat 4.4.2 for the Note 3.

Not seeing any significant differences. However, the icons in the notification bar are all white. In the prior version. I had coloured icons. Not sure how to fix that. Not a major issue but .... colour was nice.

Will have to read-up on what the improvements are.

Football / Re: T&T child to escort footballer at 2014 World Cup.
« on: March 23, 2014, 03:22:34 PM »
I have the hope that one day sponsorship could one day mirror an image more consistent with the healthy lifestyle and choices that should more closely be associated with athletic endeavour. Until such a time, we can live with McDonald's.

McDonald's is one the few restaurants that publishes nutritional information on all of the food products they sell. So at least the consumer have the opportunity (if they so chose) to evaluate what they eat.

Socapro, I realized that you will disagree with most of, if not everything I state below. But in the long run, your fears will not be realized and your way of life will not change because:

1) The gays will not take over the world

2) There will be no increased bulling in the street - my guess is that most countries have indecency laws that prohibit public displays of physical sex.

3) There will be no change in pedophilia behaviour - we already have laws for that and heterosexuals already have that market captured.

4) Children will not be converted to homosexuals. Homosexuality is not learnt behaviour.

5) Sex education is sex education. Homosexuality will be recognized as just one aspect of human sexuality when discussed in school and will be treated in an age-appropriate manner. <edit> "Gay Sex" will not be taught. The same way they do not teach "heterosexual sex". Homosexuality is not about anal sex although that myth seem to have a life of its own.

6) The family will not be decimated because of same sex unions. The family already under other pressures and same-sex unions is not one of them.

7) The world will not stop spinning on it axis.

Socapro, being gay is OK (that almost rhymes if you stress the correct syllable). No need to fight it or shun it. Yeah, I know what you have stated for the record. So just leave it at that and stop conjuring "what if" scenarios that are unlikely.

There is a subliminal message in there  .. somewhere

A hmm. . Socapro,  your dissertation also applies to heterosexual sex.

Hmm. ..

The lady doth protest too much, methink.

Oh shit I forgot the boy shouts ,them was bad bad ,.
Didnt want to post this eh Pecan,but you so insistent.
Is this what you wanted ?


pedophilia is not homosexuality. Go do some research nah.

And being homosexuality is not about the physical sex. I sounding like a broken record.

Anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church leader Fred Phelps dies



The former leader of a US church that was widely known for its inflammatory anti-gay protests has died, his family has said.

The Reverend Fred Phelps Sr, founder of the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas, died on Wednesday evening at 84.

The church, made up mostly of his family, rose to international notoriety with its practice of picketing funerals of fallen US troops.

It claimed their deaths were punishment for America's tolerance of gay people.

Their signs read "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "Thank God for 9/11" and the like, and bore messages offensive to gay and lesbian people.

Born in Mississippi in 1929, Mr Phelps was raised a Methodist and was selected to attend the US Military Academy.

He was ordained a Baptist minister, though Westboro was not attached to any mainstream denomination.

Mr Phelps earned a law degree from Washburn University in 1964, but was stripped of his licence to practise in Kansas in 1979.

The Kansas Supreme Court said Mr Phelps made false statements in documents and "showed little regard" for professional ethics.



The leader of the Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan is tired of “a few rogue Klansmen” ruining the group’s reputation, and argues that the group is a non-violent Christian organization.

“We don’t hate people because of their race, I mean, we’re a Christian organization,” Frank Ancona, the group's Imperial Wizard, told Virginia's NBC 12 on Thursday. "Because of the acts of a few rogue Klansmen, all Klansmen are supposed to be murderers, and wanting to lynch black people, and we're supposed to be terrorists. That's a complete falsehood.”

Ancona’s group has come under fire from residents of Chesterfield County, Va., about 20 miles south of Richmond, for distributing KKK recruitment fliers in people's yards since January.

"We picked ours up out of our driveway and threw it in the trash," Sarah Peachee told NBC 12. "We weren't interested in even reading about it."

Ancona defended the strategy, however, citing a boom in KKK membership across the country since 2008.

"In the last six years that I've been president of this organization I've seen the numbers probably triple," Ancona told NBC 12. "The funny thing is the same neighborhoods where you're saying there are people who don't want the flier are neighborhoods where our members live, and neighborhoods where people are sympathetic to our cause and are glad to hear from us.”

Although Ancona insisted that the KKK is not a hate group, he added that “We just want to keep our race the white race."

"We want to stay white,” Ancona said. “It's not a hateful thing to want to maintain white supremacy."

Similar activity by the Traditionalist American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was reported in Tinley Park, a suburb of Chicago, in December, after promotional fliers were found in several driveways throughout the town.

“You can sleep tonight knowing the Klan is awake!” the fliers said, according to the Chicago Tribune.

The Huffington Post  | by  Shadee Ashtari
Posted: 03/21/2014 3:55 pm EDT

You have more gay peers than I do .Cant help yah I have none.

lol, so there is no evidence that gays have a higher disposition for committing sexual assaults than heteros.

Thus, I will stand by by original statement: "Until I see that, I will not hold much faith in generalized statements and anecdotes, skewed by personal biases, prejudices and related agendas, that portray homosexuals as evil sexual deviants"

So the problem with you guys .Just be happy you will never get full acceptance ,stop forcing ppl .You are not the same ,just like downs syndrome ppl ,and midgets human but different .live with it.
Men will never fully accept you because you like man ,women will never fully accept you because you like man .
You can self procreate ,so you depend on hetrosexuals to hopefully make little mutants to join your ranks .
Your just one DNA strand modification from been fixed lol.
But lucky for you all a lot of powerfull ppl are gay and there pushing there agenda ,to the point where you cant turn on the TV without seen them .

aye Quags, still waiting for your link to peer-reviewed studies ....

"no" to your question. But the implication was clear that he should keep his opinion to himself.

Again, no response to Bakes reply?

You are good on opinionated responses and videos based on ideology but unable to refute opposing arguments with replies containing any substance that can be substantiated with statistical or scientific evidence. 

Here, lemme post some links to reports (from smarter people than you or me) that argue banning same sex unions are unconstitutional in the USA.

Posted: 03/21/2014: Michigan's 10-year-old ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled Friday in Detroit.

"The Court finds Rosenfeld’s testimony to be highly credible and gives it great weight," he wrote. "His research convincingly shows that children of same-sex couples do just as well in school as the children of heterosexual married couples, and that same-sex couples are just as stable as heterosexual couples."

Updated 8:37 AM EST, Thu February 27, 2014 Texas ban on same-sex marriage struck down by federal judge

Texas on Wednesday became the latest state to have a federal judge strike down its same-sex marriage ban, thanks to a sweeping decision holding that its current prohibition has no "legitimate governmental purpose."

Better get use to notion that antiquated opinions, although popular, are beginning to go the way of the dodo bird.

A FB friend has been doing her best to keep this crisis first and foremost on her feeds.

She posted some links that include graphic pictures showing injuries inflicted on the anti-government protesters.

here is one

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ej0bhSFLjSk&amp;feature=share" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ej0bhSFLjSk&amp;feature=share</a>

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