Messages

181

Football / Re: FIFA v-p says England will lose 2018 bid

« on: August 16, 2007, 05:14:46 AM »

Bakes - Anglophobia...btw  Is that a real word??  Wouldn't that be a fear of English people??

see here
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Anglophobia

Well I didn't know that!!!  So, just to stir things up a little, if I didn't like Africans, would I be a racist or an Afrophobe? (sounds like someone who dislikes 70's soul/funk hairstyles  )

Serious question...this is interesting.

182

Football / Re: FIFA v-p says England will lose 2018 bid

« on: August 16, 2007, 03:44:14 AM »

Bakes - Anglophobia...btw  Is that a real word??  Wouldn't that be a fear of English people??

183

Football / Re: FIFA v-p says England will lose 2018 bid

« on: August 16, 2007, 03:42:45 AM »

Ok guys, I over reacted and this morning I expected to come on here and get my ass whipped!

So thanks for understanding I wasn't attacking any body, just frustrated!!

Many of you have said that McBeths statements were no more racist than Jacks, and that was really my point. How come Jack can play the racist card against McBeth, yet be immune to it himself?

This is why GOOD white people get angry sometimes. If a white guy slags off a black country, the race card is played. If a black guy slags off a white country, well its our fault for being bastards in the past.  I know that a slip of the tongue or even pure semantics can result in being considered racist towards other races, yet it seems you have to be very specific and direct to be racist against white people.

At least thats how it seems.  I think the race debate has exhausted itself now, so lets wait for Jacks next bit of chupidness to hit the papers!

184

Football / Re: Tony Warner

« on: August 15, 2007, 06:09:52 PM »

Just like someone said you can't pick Warner after one good game, you also can't not pick him after one error. His subsequent saves more than made up for the mistake and showed he's man enough to put errors behind him. In my view, todays match will have improved his game. Many keepers would have lost confidence and made more errors.

185

Football / Re: FIFA v-p says England will lose 2018 bid

« on: August 15, 2007, 06:06:12 PM »

They talkin like is T&T that Warner want to host the WC.
Talkin about what we achieve.
Steups
Go and eat fish and chips yuh wankers lol

Ok, I guess this is going to start another shouting match, but as an Englishman, some of you guys need to see the flip side of this.

For those easily offended, please look away!

Peong, if I told you to go and eat a banana, would that be racist?? I would think so.

Stereotyping people and putting them into categories because of their religion, colour or even national foods is considered racist in England.

We have even changed our language so as not to give offence. Blackboard is now chalkboard for instance.

Warner attacked a nation. Not White people or Great Britain, but England. He singled out one country. So how would you describe it Rodney, if its not racism?

 And by the way, DCS, are you so narrow minded that you think its only white people in England who are offended by Warners comments?

 Do you really believe that black people born in England don't consider themselves English?

Do you believe that Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Jermaine Defoe and tens of thousands of black  English football supporters aren't even more offended, that their nation is being attacked by a black man?

Probably the reason English people are citing racism is because they don't know what label to put on Warners comments. And Warner set an example by calling McBeth racist. His comments were that football in Africa and the Caribbean is rife with corruption. Now, personally, I don't see any racism there. He's not picking on individual nations, but is generalising on whole regions. Africa, for instance is populated by black, white, arab, christian, muslim people. So who, specifically is he being racist against. Also, as many people state very often, football in the Caribbean is corrupt.

So, why is this statement more racist that Warners? McBeth never mentioned T&T, or Nigeria or Egypt or Jamaica. The only people who should feel offended by McBeth are those corrupt administrators in certain countries.

In fact, Warners comments are now inciting racist comments against T&T. But of course, Trinibagoans won't get offended if English people cuss T&T, after all, as DCS says, it will be entertaining to see the Trinis squirm. As Rodney says, you can't "bawl RACIST COMMENT" if people criticise something about your nationality.

So I guess I should follow PEONGs example and tell you all to go and eat your jerk chicken yuh wankers lol.

Except I won't, because I have too much respect for Trinidad & Tobago and its people. Yes, I was offended by Warner. Ok, don't call it    racism, call it anglophilia, call it what you like, but don't take the piss out of English people for doing exactly what you would do if Beckenbauer had attacked T&T.

186

Football / Re: Fire Jack Warner now petition website

« on: August 10, 2007, 01:45:28 PM »

 jack warner is the best thing that happened for tnt football inpite of his imperfections

as i learnt from a fable as a kid and all you bitter trinis/socawarrior supporters should apply  it to jack warner,

the devil you know is  better than.....

His son Daryan? Is that how it ends???

187

Football / Re: Fire Jack Warner now petition website

« on: August 10, 2007, 01:44:33 PM »

its just a set of englishman whining cause he bad mouth england
if he ent say boo about england petition would not exist and england would not care about jack warner

This is so true. However, I remmember Trinis trying to do a similar thing and not a lot happened. Now you have the support of millions of UK football supporters. Maybe its for different reasons, but the aim is the same.

I hope people here won't defend Warner coz he's a Trini. This isn't about his nationality, its about Jack Warner. At last, someone else is getting to experience what Trinis have had to put up with for 20 years.

Trust me, he's doing no favours for Trinidad & Tobago, the Caribbean or CONCACAF with these outbursts.

188

Football / Re: Marvin's surprise visit to terminally-ill teenager

« on: August 10, 2007, 12:43:05 PM »

Top man.

This type of selfless work by footballers achieves so much and will be remembered by those kids for ever. It costs nothing but a little time and is worth so much.

Keep up the great work, Dawg.

189

Football / Fire Jack Warner now petition website

« on: August 10, 2007, 12:38:20 PM »

This is the link to an online petition (one of several, I understand)

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fire-jack-warner-now.html

190

Football / Re: FIFA v-p says England will lose 2018 bid

« on: August 10, 2007, 02:50:34 AM »

Guys, my viewpoint as an Englishman (who obviously everybody hates)

Firstly, as Bakes said, it is a global view within FIFA that the rotation ends. This is purely because there are only three potential candidates. USA and Mexico have hosted recently and Canada hasn't the facilities.

Europe is the logical choice for taking up the extra place, as it has the most countries capable of  successful bid. Italy, France, Spain and Germany are out as they have hosted recently. Whether you like England or not, it has probably the best stadia of the remaining choices. It will also bring in the most revenue. By 2018, it will be 52 years since England hosted. Compare that to other major footballing nations.

Ok, now to Mr Warner. Obviously he's been reading Mr Mugabes guide on how to get yourself laughed at internationally.

Overnight, he's managed to get himself from being the guy everyone wants to suck up to, to being the most unpopular guy in the UK.

Scotland don't like him after the McBeth issue, now he's an enemy of the English FA.

People will take sides and a lot of European countries will line up behind England. (not because they like us, but because they don't like Warner)

Warner may well have become the first black FIFA president. The problem is not his colour, its his mouth.

Who the hell is he to say that European countries hate England? If they do, thats their problem, not his.

Its only a matter of time before Warner goes one sentence further and makes a racist remark. He complained when McBeth accused Africa and the Caribbean of being corrupt, yet Warner can narrow his remarks down to a nation. Being anti English isn't racist? Now I know there will be people who may argue with me over that, but if an Englishman made those comments about Nigeria, Warner would classify it as racist.

Warners chip on his shoulder stems from his fading power. He's now accusing FIFA of being anti black. The truth is, Warners a lunatic and it doesn't matter one bit what colour he is.

You watch the backlash amongst supporters and the administration. Warners kicked over the wrong rock. This is pure gold dust for FPATT. They couldn't get anything into the press about the blacklists etc. Now, any anti Warner news will be all over the papers and  from there, all over the world.They will be out to get Warner, and he's in for a very rough ride.

He thought he had problems with Andrew Jennings, well, he ain't seen nothing yet!

I can see no logical reason why Warner would come out and blatantly attack England. He could have said the same, but much more diplomatically.

As far as I can see, he's finished at FIFA. Just a matter of time now.

191

Football / Re: Brent Sancho

« on: August 06, 2007, 05:59:51 PM »

Coincidence or fate, that Southampton, Brentford and Sunderland all have similar red and white striped kits ?

Probably more lack of creativity/originality.  I have to admit that striped kits are among my least favorites in all of football, lol.

Apart from T&Ts Adidas 06 home shirt, of course!

(Sorry Bakes, I just read your posts on the Trinidad shirt thread and couldn't resist a little dig!)

192

Football / Re: Bonus matters to be addressed.

« on: August 06, 2007, 05:32:56 AM »

"Who knows, after I meet with them one on one, I may even pay them what they want but they must know the errors of their ways,” Warner said as he addressed a gathering at a Guardian sports symposium which closed on Saturday morning.

Interesting legal position.

 
The judge says "You, football player. You say sorry to Mr Warner and promise not to be cheeky no more and he'll let you have your money. But you have to kiss his ass for ever if you want to play for T&T.  No more of this chupidness, yuh hear meh? If not then kindly Mr Warner will keep his money. Its only fair, yuh see?"

The player say "But judge, Mr Warner said we couldn't have the money he promised, so we had to do something. Then he wouldn't let us play for T&T."

The judge say " That is right and proper Mr Bamshee. Yuh can't expect the man to mean everything he say. If you want to jiggy jigg with a woman, you tell her you love her. Yuh don't mean that sh*t. Thats all he do to you. He whisper nice words then he f*** you. Ah doh see nothing wrong here. Yuh just apologise and let him keep on riding yuh ass. Case closed"

193

Football / Re: Brent Sancho

« on: August 06, 2007, 05:19:52 AM »

You might bounce back via the play offs? Think Shrewsbury and MK Dons will be hardest opponents.

You still got Charlie Ide? He'll go far.

194

Football / Re: Berry wins court matter over "Warrior" Jack.

« on: July 22, 2007, 08:13:48 PM »

Still waiting...........................

195

Football / Re: maradona (ah likkle entertainment)

« on: July 22, 2007, 08:12:12 PM »

Even as an Englishman, I have to admit the guys got class.

I see in the first clip he's advertising Mars. Funny, that. I always thought he pushed Coke

196

Football / Re: Berry wins court matter over "Warrior" Jack.

« on: July 19, 2007, 07:30:20 AM »

Thanks. Be interesting to see trineebornes reply. He obviously has access to people we don't, so it will be cool to see his perspective.

197

Football / Re: Commercial: Breach of Contract.

« on: July 19, 2007, 07:26:59 AM »

You know this is gonna be tied up for months before it even gets in court. It will seem like nothing is happening, but you can bet that behind the scenes there will be a lot of guys trying to figure out who they can blame, and how they can cover their ass.

Be patient, guys. I'm sure that if theres any news, it will be posted here.

198

Football / Re: Glen's feeling good again.

« on: July 18, 2007, 05:17:21 PM »

“At this point I’m not really that eager to play on the international stage. I want to focus on my club career and I’m not thinking about my country right now."

Hardly surprising, since he got injured whilst representing the country and then TTFF left him to rot. Why would he trust them with his career? If he hadn't got injured he may have been lining up with Beckham, instead hes had a year out of football with no support from his employer (TTFF).

Remember the compensation paid by the English FA to Newcastle for Michael Owens injury? Once TTFF starts to behave like they care about their players, maybe guys will trust them enough to pull on the red white and black jersey.

Well done  Cornell, good to see you back.

199

Football / Re: Kelvin Jack promises appeal.

« on: July 18, 2007, 05:10:01 PM »

I have no axe to grind either way, but I do have one or two opinions on the matter.

From my perspective as an English football supporter, I'd like to make these comments:

Without Mike Berry, many T&T players probably wouldn't have made the trip overseas. Not because of their talent (or lack of), but because no one in England really gave a toss about Trinidad &Tobago. Maybe Terry Fenwick improved the T&T profile, but I think without Mike Berry  the impact wouldn't have been the same.

Accepting the above statement, many T&T players looking to make the trip abroad would automatically approach Berry for representation, as he is clearly the "market leader" in obtaining clubs and work permits for T&T players.

Such a player as described above, would of course agree to Berrys contract terms, as, it would appear, they are standard terms for all players, and the player may well know another of Berrys stable who signed a similar contract.

However, once landing in England and realising that it is not common for English players to pay 10% of their salary as an agents fee, the player may well feel upset. Much in the same way that you would if you agreed a "standard" deal, only to find that it is not a standard practice.

10% of £50,000 per week is a lot of money, but you still have £45,000 to live on. 10% of £1,000 per week only leaves you with £900 per week.
In England it works this way= £1,000 less tax (approx 30% in this case) = £700 less £100 (Berry) = £600 per week. A modest house will have a mortgage of £1000 per month. (Rent would cost around £800 per month)  Please note, these are approx figures and have no relation to any specific players.  My point is, that 10% of your wage is a lot to pay at the lower end of the market, especially if none of your team mates pay their agents that way.

From a purely business sense, Berry has the right to charge whatever he can get away with, however, he must accept that this could be challenged in the future.

Is it also fair to be paid by a player and a club? See above. However, if the player is happy, thats up to him. But does the player realise he will be taxed on the amount paid to the agent by the club? The agents fee from the club is classed by the UK Inland Revenue as a benefit in kind. This means that although someone else paid the fee, the player received the benefit i.e. the agents advice and service. This is taxed at the players highest rate, usually 40% and takes around 18 months to filter through. There is a well known case of an Italian player moving to England without paying the agent, as the agent was paid by the club. The story goes that 18 months later, the player received a tax bill for £400,000. The agent was paid £1,000,000. 

So, in the case of Carlos, will he have to pay £36,000 tax on the £90,000 fee that Berry received from Luton? From the press statements, Berry admitted that some of the fee wasn't declared to the authorities. So, was Carlos aware of the fee? Shouldn't that £90,000 have gone to Carlos and then he could pay Berry what he felt was fair? 10% seems to be the favourite figure. Maybe Carlos doesn't care, but maybe he doesn't realise he will get a tax bill for £36,000.  Did Berry explain that to his client?

Mike Berry has cornered the market in T&T players, and hopefully, will continue to bring players over. He has intimated that he would be happy to work with FPATT, and that seems sensible for both parties, however, I would imagine that here would need to be some discussion as to the contract terms offered to players.

However, I would think that Berrys ties with Jack Warner and TTFF would need to be examined first. I do not see how a player could feel confident of his agents services if he is also paid by the players employer (TTFF or the LOC). I have no input as to Mike Berrys position regarding the blacklisted players and TTFF/LOC. However, I do not recall one statement from Mike Berry attacking TTFF for significantly damaging his clients careers. I don't know how many of the black listed players are represented by Berry, but I know that any agent with a player in the same situation would see his potential future income threatened and would make a press statement calling for the lifting of the blacklist and contemplating legal action against the Federation. So, I would like to see Mike Berry fight on his clients behalf and publically denounce the actions of TTFF. Of course, if he is still being paid by TTFF, that may be difficult. In which case, he should either reimburse TTFF and stand by his clients or reimburse his clients and support TTFF. It may even be the case that, as a member of the TTFF LOC, he actually voted against his clients.

What say you, trineeborne? You're obviously close to Mike Berry, can you enlighten us? Much like Jack Warner, you cannot continue to admire a man for his past accomplishments, when his current activities are questionable. Perhaps you can shed some light on Mike Berrys status re the above points, so that we, the uninformed, can decide ourselves who is to be supported in the future. After all, agents receive much criticism from all areas of football, but to see an agent come out to support his wronged client would receive unanimous backing and increase his standing amongst players and supporters immeasurably. 

200

Football / Re: Berry wins court matter over "Warrior" Jack.

« on: July 18, 2007, 04:45:00 PM »

Certainly, the most interesting content in this post is the identity of trineeborne, rather than his actual words.

I have no axe to grind either way, but I do have one or two opinions on the matter.

From my perspective as an English football supporter, I'd like to make these comments:

Without Mike Berry, many T&T players probably wouldn't have made the trip overseas. Not because of their talent (or lack of), but because no one in England really gave a toss about Trinidad &Tobago. Maybe Terry Fenwick improved the T&T profile, but I think without Mike Berry  the impact wouldn't have been the same.

Accepting the above statement, many T&T players looking to make the trip abroad would automatically approach Berry for representation, as he is clearly the "market leader" in obtaining clubs and work permits for T&T players.

Such a player as described above, would of course agree to Berrys contract terms, as, it would appear, they are standard terms for all players, and the player may well know another of Berrys stable who signed a similar contract.

However, once landing in England and realising that it is not common for English players to pay 10% of their salary as an agents fee, the player may well feel upset. Much in the same way that you would if you agreed a "standard" deal, only to find that it is not a standard practice.

10% of £50,000 per week is a lot of money, but you still have £45,000 to live on. 10% of £1,000 per week only leaves you with £900 per week.
In England it works this way= £1,000 less tax (approx 30% in this case) = £700 less £100 (Berry) = £600 per week. A modest house will have a mortgage of £1000 per month. (Rent would cost around £800 per month)  Please note, these are approx figures and have no relation to any specific players.  My point is, that 10% of your wage is a lot to pay at the lower end of the market, especially if none of your team mates pay their agents that way.

From a purely business sense, Berry has the right to charge whatever he can get away with, however, he must accept that this could be challenged in the future.

Is it also fair to be paid by a player and a club? See above. However, if the player is happy, thats up to him. But does the player realise he will be taxed on the amount paid to the agent by the club? The agents fee from the club is classed by the UK Inland Revenue as a benefit in kind. This means that although someone else paid the fee, the player received the benefit i.e. the agents advice and service. This is taxed at the players highest rate, usually 40% and takes around 18 months to filter through. There is a well known case of an Italian player moving to England without paying the agent, as the agent was paid by the club. The story goes that 18 months later, the player received a tax bill for £400,000. The agent was paid £1,000,000. 

So, in the case of Carlos, will he have to pay £36,000 tax on the £90,000 fee that Berry received from Luton? From the press statements, Berry admitted that some of the fee wasn't declared to the authorities. So, was Carlos aware of the fee? Shouldn't that £90,000 have gone to Carlos and then he could pay Berry what he felt was fair? 10% seems to be the favourite figure. Maybe Carlos doesn't care, but maybe he doesn't realise he will get a tax bill for £36,000.  Did Berry explain that to his client?

Mike Berry has cornered the market in T&T players, and hopefully, will continue to bring players over. He has intimated that he would be happy to work with FPATT, and that seems sensible for both parties, however, I would imagine that here would need to be some discussion as to the contract terms offered to players.

However, I would think that Berrys ties with Jack Warner and TTFF would need to be examined first. I do not see how a player could feel confident of his agents services if he is also paid by the players employer (TTFF or the LOC). I have no input as to Mike Berrys position regarding the blacklisted players and TTFF/LOC. However, I do not recall one statement from Mike Berry attacking TTFF for significantly damaging his clients careers. I don't know how many of the black listed players are represented by Berry, but I know that any agent with a player in the same situation would see his potential future income threatened and would make a press statement calling for the lifting of the blacklist and contemplating legal action against the Federation. So, I would like to see Mike Berry fight on his clients behalf and publically denounce the actions of TTFF. Of course, if he is still being paid by TTFF, that may be difficult. In which case, he should either reimburse TTFF and stand by his clients or reimburse his clients and support TTFF. It may even be the case that, as a member of the TTFF LOC, he actually voted against his clients.

What say you, trineeborne? You're obviously close to Mike Berry, can you enlighten us? Much like Jack Warner, you cannot continue to admire a man for his past accomplishments, when his current activities are questionable. Perhaps you can shed some light on Mike Berrys status re the above points, so that we, the uninformed, can decide ourselves who is to be supported in the future. After all, agents receive much criticism from all areas of football, but to see an agent come out to support his wronged client would receive unanimous backing and increase his standing amongst players and supporters immeasurably. 

201

Football / I know I shouldn't laugh at Mr Warner, but...

« on: July 02, 2007, 04:11:33 AM »

This made me chuckle!  You may have read this before, so apologies in advance.

jeremy-taylor.blogspot.com/2006/09/dear-jack-warner.html


Dear Jack Warner

I'd just like to wish you good luck in your imminent encounter with FIFA's disciplinary committee. I'm sure your many friends in FIFA will make sure that the hearing is not too traumatic or painful for you and that the outcome reflects the many wonderful contributions you have made to the cause of football.

What a horrendous time they've been giving you in recent years, Jack. There was that hearing earlier this year into an alleged conflict of interest in the alleged sale of World Cup tickets, and now this alleged affair about the supposed resale of tickets and the allegedly huge profits allegedly accruing to you and your alleged relatives. What cheek, Jack, thus to sully your reputation. I'm sure that the real truth will emerge, reflecting your control of the whole CONCACAF region with its 35 FIFA votes, and the sterling contribution it has made to maintaining stability within FIFA under the inspired leadership of your friend and confidante Sepp Blatter.

And these investigative journalists, Jack. I sympathise. All those impertinent questions about things that are supposed to be kept private and confidential. (How much do you make? How much was that deal worth? Is so-and-so your relative? All that stuff.) That fellow Andrew Solomon seems to turn up everywhere, doesn't he, even sparking off this latest scandal, I mean alleged scandal, in the London Mail this last week. What a tiresome man. And white too, as you yourself have pointed out.

Actually, I've been reading Solomon's book Foul! with astonishment, Jack. What a lot of charges he makes against you! Pages and pages of scurrilous stories about the doings of Jack Warner! I quite see that, as a powerful figure in FIFA and deputy chairman of the United National Congress in Trinidad (in the latter role you wittily sport your famous baseball cap to make clear which hat you are wearing) you need these disgraceful accusations taken away pronto. No wonder you rushed out your own autobiography, written by that sports stalwart Valentino Singh, to put the true side of the story.

After all, Solomon says you actually had bystanders impersonate absent Haitian delegates at certain FIFA elections! God forbid, Jack, what muck-raking. And that un-repaid FIFA money built the Joao Havelange Centre of Excellence near Port of Spain. Heaven forfend! And he goes digging around in your accounts, the money he says you have managed to extract from FIFA, your lifestyle, your personal relations with Blatter and his predecessor Havelange, the ancient "ticket scandal" of 1989, the concessions he says your family enjoys . . . I mean, where does he get all this stuff, Jack? Does he have a key to your office, the password to your laptop? Or are treacherous minions blabbing?

I understand from your dignified silence that you do not wish to be tarnished with these matters and give Solomon the satisfaction of a response, which after all would just set the man off on another round of embarrassing investigation. FIFA itself said about Foul! that though there were inaccuracies in it, it wasn't worth going to court over. Well! After all you've done for them, Jack! I thought they could have been a bit stronger in your defence: that's like saying, well, yes, it's all pretty much true actually, we just hope it goes away.

But since Solomon claims you're now worth ten to twenty million pounds sterling, and could be president of FIFA within a decade, I just have this nagging thought. Perhaps it's time you laid all these matters to rest, once and for all. Provide factual disproof of all these allegations. Show the world who's right. Take the man to court for libel. Don't you think so, Jack? Go on, clear your name.

202

Football / Re: The Ravings of A Vex Woman Footballer

« on: June 28, 2007, 05:39:49 PM »

I have a daughter who plays, so I understand. But the truth is its the Men's football that drives everything. Men's football funds the Women. You cannot make any money from Women football. When last a woman was traded for 1 million dollars. It is sad but it is a reality.

Yuh mean to say these women played in a FA Cup Final in front of 25,000 people and the Board of Directors cyah figure out a way to make money off of women's football??? I'm sorry ANC but ah cyah buy dat argument. What about developing the game? A few years back MLS would have been overjoyed to have dat many people attending games but they keep on striving and working to develop the league and the game in the US. Now they could afford to sign Beckham to a $250million contract.

It is true that money drives everything but sometimes yuh have to take the long view. I believe the financial term is "long term investment".

The money from the cup final probably has gone into Charltons promotion campaign. However, it would have been nice if the club had approached the male players and asked for a donation from each. I'm sure they don't give a damn, but maybe if the captain was strong enough, he'd embarrass them into putting in a few pounds.

203

Football / Re: Shaun Fuentes

« on: June 23, 2007, 07:06:18 AM »

Seems like Bake n Shark have a personal problem with Shaun.

I mean, if the man offend you so much why read his stuff ? move on.

These players want their money, over 300,000 thousand pounds and forming a Players Union so it wouldn't make them look like they money hungry. I mean men could speculate many things, as this Players Union was suppose to kick of years ago.

Maybe its more than you think is going on, so to come here and bash certain men without having a clue what's going on behind the scenes is wong.

If you want to fight down Shaun. What about Jason Scotland, Carlos Edwards, Dwight Yorke, Densill Theobald, Russell Latapy, Claytron Ince, Dennis Lawrence, Ian Cox (who is not even here to help with (FPATT). These men not in court battle with the TTFF. They did pull out of the T&T squad last min, but still, they not in battle with the TTFF. Did they make a difference, did Jack say, ok, hold allyuh money....

This is a writers freedom, he can write what ever he wants. You cannot tell him what to write because you not paying him.

Sando, now you're doing the spinning!

The blacklisted players are doing what they do with or without FPATT. FPATT cannot get directly involved in their court case. Whatever they do for FPATT is for the boys in Trinidad. don't forget, they belong to unions in other countries and CANNOT be  full members of FPATT.

Is it really so hard to see footballers do something for others when they won't benefit themselves.

204

Football / Re: Shaun Fuentes

« on: June 23, 2007, 03:06:26 AM »

Guys, this has been going on lonnng time, and I've enjoyed the conversation.

But when you get down to it,you're arguing about two things we already know.

1) TTFF, like all organisations, has to have a press office. Its job is to release all the good news and spread it as far as possible, and contain, or "package" the controversial stuff, so minimum damage is done to the organisation. In England, we call this "spin" and a good spin doctor will earn £1 million per year.
THEY TAKE THE TRUTH AND SPIN IT TO MAKE IT FAVOUR THE ORGANISATION.

For instance- "Soca Warriors are not playing"  becomes

NEW FUTURE OF FOOTBALL COMPETES WELL AGAINST FULL STRENGTH USA.

2) Shaun Fuentes does this very well!  Its his job. Like it or not, someone has to do it, and he does it well. He protects TTFFs public face. I don't think he enjoys spinning the truth, but he's probably hanging on for the new regime to take over. Then, we will need him to do that job to protect the reputation of T&T football.

205

Football / Re: Letter from Shaka to Warner sent sunday 17th june

« on: June 19, 2007, 04:07:23 PM »

This is the situation as I see it.

Firstly, the blacklisted players are trying to resolve an issue between them and TTFF, but TTFF, as we know, have no say in the matter. Warner negotiated the contract and he's OFFICIALLY staying out of it. This means TTFF have nothing to say and nowhere to run to. They can't move without Jack and Jacks not getting involved in his role of special adviser. So the impasse continues. Even Minister Boynes is getting nowhere, because there is no one with the power to negotiate.

FPATT are trying to stay out of the issue. However, it is increasingly difficult because Jack is purposely blurring the lines. As CONCACAF president he has attacked the warriors, told untruths and made allegations of blackmail etc. He is also saying that players have no right to legal advice.

This cannot go undefended by FPATT for a number of reasons.
1 They must defend their members (albeit associate members)
2 Warner is effectively changing FIFA rules which affect ALL footballers
3 Warner cannot be allowed to be the only voice in this battle
4 Warner must be made to recognise FPATT publicly an force TTFF to do the same
5 World Cup 2010 contracts need to be negotiated pretty soon and TTFF must recognise FPATT as a formidable force and one to be respected.

FPATT did not start this war of words, but must prove to the public, to the players, to the football organisations and to the world that they intend to be strong and defend those that cannot defend themselves.

FPATT have a strategy and we probably haven't seen the last of this issue.

So many people on this site are picking holes in Shakas letter and FPATTs strategy. Ok, thats easy to do. You can do that with any statement or letter.

What I don't understand is, why?

This is what this site has been asking for since the blacklist began. Someone to stand up to the tyrant, someone to force transparency and return democracy. If TTFF fold, hopefully people like FPATT will have a say in who takes over and insist on transparency and democracy.

So who gives a shit if a commer is out of place? For Gods sake stop whining and get behind the boys. At last you have your Messiah, your Luke Skywalker, the guy to take on Warner. Support him.

These people read these sites. FPATT even post information here because people complained they did not know what is happening. And what happens? You still get people putting forward non constructive criticism. If you guys are so bright, why haven't YOU done something?

These guys must feel they just can't win right now.

Sorry, but I needed to get that off my chest!

 

206

Football / Re: Letter from Shaka to Warner sent sunday 17th june

« on: June 19, 2007, 11:29:15 AM »

Hmmm

I read de letter twice ,maybe i Should read it a third time in more detail.

But in any letter like this, there has to be a specific request and expected outcomes

The letter, while full of interesting background, a restatement of what the players were seeking, but it does not explicitly make a request  (imho) to resolve the outstanding issues other than a round-about suggestion in the last sentence:

"The TTFF must now follow FIFA’s lead in recognizing and working with FPATT in an effort to take our game, both at the national and international levels, forward. I look forward to your response."

that last sentence should have been more direct, i.e asking for a meeting between TTFF and FPATT with a specif agenda, objectives and expected outcomes.

semantics maybe ... but this is not unlike a complaint letter to a vendor, or a request in a labour contract, or any kind of negotiations.

The indirect request for the TTFF to work with the FPATT does not obligate the TTFF to any action other than a meaningless response. 

In one read, I should have quickly know what the objectives were and expected outcomes.


just my analysis of the letter and its intentions,not meant to pass judgment or criticism on the intent of the letter which I believe is commendable, but will likely fall on deaf ears.

now i sitting on a limb like a bird on laglee waiting .....

I take your point, Pecan, but I think you're trying to be a little too deep here man.

The letter has got a specific request and an expected outcome and that is basically

 BACK OFF WARNER, OR YOU'LL GET MORE OF THE SAME!!

Its telling Jack that he's not dealing with pussies anymore. This is not supposed to achieve anything more than speak up for the people Jack has lied about.

Meetings with TTFF are another issue. This is basically about a bully being told that if he keeps on, he'll get spanked, and should act as a warning to either behave or the gloves are coming off. Lets see if Warner steps away or fights. 

207

Football / Re: Letter from Shaka to Warner sent sunday 17th june

« on: June 19, 2007, 05:55:02 AM »

 Jack under no obligation to answer this letter.
We all know who pulling the strings at TTFF but he really could laugh off this.
Was a similar letter written to TTFF ?
Ah mean, is really the TTFF that blacklist the players under the advice of Jack.
Going after Jack with letters like this may be a good publicity ploy to expose him from the players side but the real success is going to get TTFF and by extension Jack to sit down with the affected players and work it out.
Something much stronger than letters will have to be used to achieve this.
Ah have a suggestion but ......... big brother watching.

Of course he's obligated! This is a letter from the President of FPATT to the head of CONCACAF. Warners job is to oversee the development of football in his region. He has signed up to uphold FIFAs code of ethics and their memorandum of understanding with FIFPro. He can't pick and choose which parts he agrees with. FPATT are building a case against Warner, can't you see that? Every time he snubs them, its added to his file. Eventually his position will be untenable. Everyone says hes untouchable, but no one ever is. Stalin, Amin, Saddam all fell in the end.

This is a long game thats being played, and every mistake Warner makes, you can bet FPATT are adding them to the list. I just can't believe how many cowards there are in world football frightened to speak up for the little guy.

208

Football / Re: Morris: FPATT to take care of players

« on: June 18, 2007, 06:36:30 PM »

The one thing i like about what Morris said is they they are not here to fight the TTFF,that's important,they are seeking the blessings of the Federation because they can't survive without that,as someone who have been there he will know better than anyone else what's required,it's about taking care of Footballers and their future.For this to work they have to work with and not against the TTFF.   

Does FPATT require the 'blessing' of TTFF to operate and transact business on behalf of the players?
 Is it possible for the TTFF to simply say we dont recognize you, you have no authority and and as such we will not deal with you.

      They will not have any weight without the blessings of the TTFF,they can't represent any players unless they are sanctioned by the TTFF,anything Football the TTFF controls,one body is recognized worldwide and that's the TTFF.
      It is possible for the TTFF to simply say we don't recognize you because they already doing that to the WC players(FPATT). 

It will be difficult for FPATT to operate without being officially recognised by TTFF. However, the Russisn federation refused to recognise the Russian players union. FIFPro, the global association of players unions, stepped in and involved Sepp Blatter. Blatter signed a memorandum with FIFPro declaring every players right to have union representation. Blatter has also stated that players unions are crucial to development of football in Africa. To that end, he has stated that every new professional league in Africa must have a players union. Blatter spoke to the Russians, and basically ordered them to recognise the union. So if TTFF want to ignore FPATT, they simply have to contact the Russian and African federations for support. I'm sure Mr Blatter will find it politically difficult not to intercede on FPATTs behalf, particularly if Warner is becoming embarrassing.

209

Football / What happened to the Warner Offside thread??

« on: June 17, 2007, 08:03:54 AM »

This morning a piece by Lasana was posted...now its disapeared!
What happened? 

210

Football / Re: Kevin Harrison give us his views & attitudes on FPATT.

« on: June 17, 2007, 04:51:13 AM »

I should imagine things are becoming tricky at FPATT towers at the moment. Warner attacking the players and making slanderous and defamitory remarks means FPATT has to be careful. FPATT say the blacklist is not their issue, but they must also defend footballers from this kind of abuse. Warners statements are not fit to come from a concacaf president, which is the capacity he gave the interviews as. He is supposed to be unbiased.   If he wanted to comment on the situation, he should have spoke as special adviser to TTFF.