Are we the whipping boys of the region?

[Mose]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

[Controversial]

if the coaches can select the right team without money passing and curry favour then we can qualify every year for the world cup, tt is too much of a threat to the bigger teams if we have a well orgainzed outfit, you saw what bennhakker did with the team, we are too small to be a threat to the bigger nations, so money gets involved, people who dont understand that need to stop watching football bc its no longer about the sport, its about money

[Coop's]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

       You are correct just say thanks to JW and stop the old talk.

[weary1969]

Where was dis thread June 15th 2008 when Bermuda beat we? Where was this thread when we eh qualify 4 d GC?

[Midknight]

Jamrock pull ah fast one with the UB40's to get to France and will be paying for it for some years to come from a developmental point of view.

This is Jamaica's second time in sucessin missing the Hex since qualifying for France'98. We narrowly missed out this time, after finishing equal on points with Mexico in  a group that included 2 of the current top three Hex teams, and a Canadian team that only weeks prior to the start of the last Semi-finals round, was trading goals with Brazil. In our first try after qualifying for France, we ended up in 4th position, which at the time, was one short of automatic qualification. Of course, 4th place today would be enough to get you a play-off spot.

T&T, still riding high after qualifying for Germany, got a relatively easy semi-fianl group, which included 2 caribbean teams (cuba being the other), the USA and Guatemala. All T&T had to do really was get the better of Guatemala over 2 legs, and you would almost certainly get into the Hex. No problem. In fact, if I am recalling correctly,  two individials at the age of 35 and 34 were critical in getting you into the HEx. Both these giys have since retired. Replacing Latapy and Yorke is going to take a mammoth effort, but I suppose many will point  to the fact that T&T has the under-20s to look to in the near future. Well, true, but how good are they really? In other words, if you put the crrent T&T under-20's on a football pitch with Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Canada, will they finish in the top 3 or 4 positions?

Like it or not, Central American teams have more resources than caribbean teams. Yes, Dwight Yorke might have been the biggest name out of CONCACAF in the past 15 years, but when you look to the number of players Honduras has exported to teams such as Napoli, parma, Inter Milan, etc over the years, you quickly realise that they have an ubundance of talent there. I dont believe a Kenwyn Jones can claim to be a bigger "name" player than Paulo Wanchope of Costa Rica.

Rebuilding must happen. Jamaica tried to rebuild in the semis-round, Simoes introduced a number of new faces in the games, and ended up losing his job as a result. in the T&T squad, Latapy and Yorke has already left the scene, leaving behind old men like Marvin Andrews, Clayton Ince, Dennis Lawrence etc. Hard to believe that there are not better alternatives avaialable on the Egypt bound under-20 squad that could be blooded to take over these roles.

Dread, this bait does work like a charm.
I have to thank the fella from the fishing tackle shop.

[asylumseeker]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

In gauging success, what should be the lowest common denominator?

[weary1969]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

In gauging success, what should be the lowest common denominator?

We accomplish dat this campaign Bermuda beat we.

[Brownsugar]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

In gauging success, what should be the lowest common denominator?

We accomplish dat this campaign Bermuda beat we.

For real Weary.....losing 2 - 1 to Bermuda was more depressing than a 4 - 1 loss to Honduras....that Bermuda fiasco was the lowest I felt as a T&T fan in a long while....

[Savannah boy]

Dis is the weakest Hex in terms of talent and we in de cellar.  Go figure dat one out.

[asylumseeker]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

In gauging success, what should be the lowest common denominator?

We accomplish dat this campaign Bermuda beat we.

Mose?

[Mose]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

In gauging success, what should be the lowest common denominator?

We accomplish dat this campaign Bermuda beat we.

Mose?

Not sure what yuh mean by dat seeker. But I look at it this way, we lost a game to Bermuda and where are they now?

What I'm saying is, if we're the "whipping boys" that means most teams in the region should be beating us on a regular basis. And regular basis does NOT mean a one off loss to Bermuda. I eh trying to call us the most successful team in de region. Not by a long shot. We have deficiencies that we need to fix but "whipping boys of the region"? Puh-lease!!

I realise that people disappointed with the performance of the team but allyuh need to stop falling fuh every little piece of ole-talk allyuh get!!

[asylumseeker]

NO we are not!!! 30 something teams in de region and we consistently in de top 6 when WCQ comes around. Dat to me does not equal us being whipping boys. Allyuh need to stop overrreacting. Despite any talk, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica wasn't saying dat sh*t after 2006 WCQ.

In gauging success, what should be the lowest common denominator?

We accomplish dat this campaign Bermuda beat we.

Mose?

Not sure what yuh mean by dat seeker. But I look at it this way, we lost a game to Bermuda and where are they now?

What I'm saying is, if we're the "whipping boys" that means most teams in the region should be beating us on a regular basis. And regular basis does NOT mean a one off loss to Bermuda. I eh trying to call us the most successful team in de region. Not by a long shot. We have deficiencies that we need to fix but "whipping boys of the region"? Puh-lease!!

I realise that people disappointed with the performance of the team but allyuh need to stop falling fuh every little piece of ole-talk allyuh get!!

Fully understood. Still consider ...

Bermuda has symbolic value fuh losing to any team not recognised as being firmly at the top of the hierarchy in CONCACAF ball. It fuh sure eh solely only about losing to Bermie, one off or not. Substitute St. Kitts fuh Bermuda and we should be pissed. Substitute Guyana fuh St. Kitts and we should be pissed. Substitute St. Vincent fuh Guyana and we should be pissed.

My question was directed to the "30 something" you mentioned ... coz our evaluations as a football nation in CONCACAF should be rooted very narrowly. At times, it's not sufficiently useful to count also-rans. In each WC campaign, we have a demonstrated lack of separation between our quality and that of many of our traditional rivals. For sustained progress, this has to change.

From the perspective of the top nations in CONCACAF ... it may not be hard to fashion an argument that we are open to being whipped over and over again ... regardless of our rightful place. Until we can convincingly shift stratospheres this perception will persist.

[spideybuff]

If we say whipping boys of d hex...maybe, but that would just be this year.

I still think El Salvador is a more regular side to take licks among the big boys.

Guatemala, Trinidad...could be good sometimes and Jamaica always tough at home.

So El Salvador is more seen as the whipping boys among those who regularly in the hex

[Agent Jack Bauer]

on paper no....in reality yes

[dwolfman]

How can we be the whipping boys of the region when we're in the final 6 for World Cup Qualification?

[Big Magician]

we are tnt

[just cool]

If we say whipping boys of d hex...maybe, but that would just be this year.

I still think El Salvador is a more regular side to take licks among the big boys.

Guatemala, Trinidad...could be good sometimes and Jamaica always tough at home.

So El Salvador is more seen as the whipping boys among those who regularly in the hex

How many home games did El salvador loss? how many goals they conceded?

we lose more home games than them, and they beat the mighty mexico and costa rica and drew wid america all @ home.

i understand what yuh saying though, but bad planning and mischief caused us to be the whipping boys not only in concacaf , but in the caribbean this rounds.

[dwolfman]

How many home games did El salvador loss? how many goals they conceded?

we lose more home games than them, and they beat the mighty mexico and costa rica and drew wid america all @ home.

i understand what yuh saying though, but bad planning and mischief caused us to be the whipping boys not only in concacaf , but in the caribbean this rounds.

How does this equate to us being the whipping boys of the region? I'm assuming a statement like that is covering a protracted period of time. Costa Rica, Mexico and USA beat us regularly in all regional competitions. Besides them who can say with absolute confidence that they coming day in and day out to take 3 points from T&T? I agree with Mose on this, to call us whipping boys is an overreaction. Arguments about what is happening in the 2009 Hex cannot make us the whipping boys of the region except as it pertains to the Hex. We may have lost to Bermuda, but USA beat Spain at the height of a huge undefeated run. Upsets happen in football, hence why they are called upsets. The fact is that we are in the top 6 of the region's World Cup Qualifier. When last has Bermuda, St. Kitts o Grenada reached this far?

[just cool]

How many home games did El salvador loss? how many goals they conceded?

we lose more home games than them, and they beat the mighty mexico and costa rica and drew wid america all @ home.

i understand what yuh saying though, but bad planning and mischief caused us to be the whipping boys not only in concacaf , but in the caribbean this rounds.

How does this equate to us being the whipping boys of the region? I'm assuming a statement like that is covering a protracted period of time. Costa Rica, Mexico and USA beat us regularly in all regional competitions. Besides them who can say with absolute confidence that they coming day in and day out to take 3 points from T&T? I agree with Mose on this, to call us whipping boys is an overreaction. Arguments about what is happening in the 2009 Hex cannot make us the whipping boys of the region except as it pertains to the Hex. We may have lost to Bermuda, but USA beat Spain at the height of a huge undefeated run. Upsets happen in football, hence why they are called upsets. The fact is that we are in the top 6 of the region's World Cup Qualifier. When last has Bermuda, St. Kitts o Grenada reached this far?

First off, i was responding to spidy's comment on el salvador. he said el salv was most likely the whiping boys, but i have to disagree if he's talking bout for 2007 - 2009. we didn't win one solitary game in the 2007 GC, not to mention bummimg out in the first round while teams like haiti and guadelupe was in the knockout phases and later losing to berbuda and grenada while failing to make the GC in 09.

but if he was talking bout in previous yrs than i will have to hold my peace. btw this Q was raised around our hexonal performance so in essence that would make us the whipping boys of the region most definatly.

as for being in the top 6 in concacaf, well what would you say about teams like grenada and barbados having to play a home and away fixtures wid the likes of the U.S.A. and COSTA RICA of whom if we played instead of bermuda , we would be out from the get go just like them.

what about jamaica who had ah great showing in the semi's and had to go up against the likes of honduras and mexico? i personally believe jamaica was better than us this past qualifying , and only BC they were in the group of death, caused them to miss out on the hex even though nuff of yuhs would hate me for admitting to that!

and i would go as far as to say, if they (JA) was in the hex they would've put up ah better fight than us, since they have more pride in their football and would bleed for their country.

 i will go even further and say, them boy have more warrior pride than us in every sense of the word, just look @ the condition of the national stadium last night, i believe if that was harbor view or arnette gardens playing in their stadium, it would've been @ least half full.

i'm ashamed to say that we were @ our worst this last few yrs and should be ashamed tuh call ourselves warriors(the team that is) and i don't want no comradory thing wid RF and 2099, BC them boy don't speak the truth, they are bias as bias could be, but the truth bites sometimes.

[dwolfman]

Some valid points in there about our current performance and while the topic has come up around a time that we're struggling it doesn't change the fact that to be the whipping boys of the region we'd need to be getting licks outside of this WCQ period. So if we weren't sitting at the bottom of the Hex would the answer to the question be different?

The answer to the question of Grenada and Barbados having to play USA and Costa Rica sort of proves the point that we are far from being the whipping boys of the region since the ranking (seeding) sets up the draw. Mexico didn't play USA or Costa Rica either at that stage.

Jamaica started off the semi-final round badly and made a really good recovery to narrowly miss out on the Hex, so we can speculate about what might have been, but we'll never really know.

I was shocked last night at the attendance in the HCS. I was telling my sister that I can understand that kind of turn out for a pro-league match, but for a CONCACAF CL game? Manny Ramjohn not looking any better so far.