What is Shaun Wright-Phillip's future?

[kicker]

Allyuh missing something in this argument.. Lemme put forward something in support of what Bake n Shark is saying...

This whole thing about bench players starting/playing for their national teams only really takes place in the England national team.

They are the only real league where they have so much foreigners and so little homegrown talent that more often than not, their best English players often are marginalized at their clubs... SWP, Crouch, Defoe, Bridge, J.Cole, Walcott are all not regular starters for their teams yet get regular call-ups.. Even Scott Carson and Ben Foster have gotten national team call ups and they are not even counted good enough to start at their own clubs (Man U and Liverpool).

England is an exception to the rule!

A quick glimpse at all other national teams will show that all of their players are premiere players on their national teams... Is only because English players cant make the grade and their league is swamped with international talent that you find this is a regular occurrence..

And the point about bench players getting alot of playing time for their nat'l squad only taking place in England is also not true. I remember Wiltord geting good playing time for France even when his club form dipped, the same can be said for Reyes in Spain, Saviola in Argentina, Ljungberg in Sweden, Figo in Portugal, and I'm sure there are many other examples....

Cmon man, now you getting petty like another poster i know and pointing out exceptions to the rule to force a point..

Not forcing any point and I'm not arguing against you per se- just saying that what you claim is not necessarily true and giving some examples off the top of my head which lead me to think that....

I don't care about winning any argument- just speaking based on what I know....Your claim was that England was the ONLY country in which benchers could still be nat'l team regulars.......If you think you're correct then fine- I just don't agree....petty? wateva....steeeeupsss

And if you take what I say in the context of the entire post, you should see where I'm coming from- seems like you're more concerned with winning an argument otherwise it should be pretty clear....

Saviola started for Argentina in the W.C. and in their qualifiers...he was pretty much Pekerman's son on that team so I eh know what you're talking about saying he was never a starter for Argentina and I was speaking of Wiltord's form at Arsenal b4 returning to France...Your statement about Ljungberg underlines my point about other factors coming into play....Reyes & Figo...we could talk in circles about that all day....but like I said they are just examples off the top of my head....plus I agreed that the conventional wisdom stands the test of time more often than not......so other than nitpicking yourself, and pretty much reiterating what I said- I don't get your point.

[Bakes]

Kicker I also didn't think of the England situation in terms of level of competition in the EPL among the players for spots until Omar brought it up, and it's a good point.  True, as you say England isn't the only country where you find this phenomenon of bench players starting on the national team, but when he mentioned it a light bulb went off in my head...like "oh yeah, that's true".  So I think (at least) for me, it's the one country that would immediately come to mind...but no surprise there since I'm more intimately familiar with the EPL than with the Championat.

Also, I make no argument about SWP starting for England...shit, I'm a fan of the English national team and more than happy to see the team get stronger and to see it do so by playing black players at that.  My contention was with the apparent suggestion that clubs starts should correlate directly with National team appearances was nonsense...I'm sure we all agree where that argument belongs. 

On a more general note, I was actually happy with the squad's performance against Germany (another one of my European teams), just thought Dyer in particular could have done better and stop pulling Sterns, lol  But loved what SWP brought to the game, very much reminiscent of what Aaron Lennon was doing in Germany...only better crosses.  Thrilled to see him get Man of the Match.

[Mango Chow!]

     Well, big cheesey, my argument is specific to SWP. I have no particular issue with a player needing to be a regular starter for his club to be a "regular STARTER" on his national team but there are obviously times when that policy does not make sense and should not be so strictly adhered to.   I feel that is the case here.   But even so, my argument based on him being selected to rep England as a starter, either. The thread itself  is not about  any general premise or general situation.  It's about Shaun wright-Phillips.   He had already proven his worth prior to joining Chelsea and it warranted an England callup. What changed when he signed with Chelsea, his playing time?  (Mourinho's tactics?) Now he's not good enough to rep England?  Now he's "started" one game, two games for Chelsea and he's good enough for England again, right?   But you still haven't told me what he's doing now that he wasn't doing before to make one say: "he's a good player and his skills can help England"......that wasn't being said of him before.  Crouch got called up for England more because of his rate of scoring goals than because of his "starts" for Liverpool.......especially given Benitez' rotation policy.  His height was also probably a factor, but, who knows.....Well, I'm sure you do.  My bottom line is that there has always been room on England's 23-man squad for somebody of SWP"s ability since his initial callup, no matter what the policy is on "club starters."  When you come out to just be an asshole, sometimes you miss the point.  It's ok, though.  The world is a small place but there's always room for you.   

Come on man Chutney...yuh could do better than that.  Tell me yuh doh really get ruffled so easily in real life, lol.  You calling me all the 'asshole' in the whole does nothing to mitigate the fact that yuh talking ah pile ah grade A horseshit arguing that man doh need to be sweating regularly in order to play internationally fuh dey country.  That's like arguing that ah man doh really need to be practising in order to get ah run wid de first team.  Now that I've reduced it to simpler terms that even you should be able to understanding, see how schupid it sounds?

In addition to the obvious fitness questions, there's also the question of erosion of skills.  You don't need a PhD (and ah doh mean de one you have, "Piled high and Deep") to understand that there's a directly proportional relationship between diminished skills and the distance between ass and bench. 

Okay...dai'z ah joke, laff once yuh calm dong. 


At any rate, no better gauge of a player's ability than to see it for yourself on the field...Shaun getting more run regularly...starter or not (b/c he wasn't even getting run that regular last year...so uhm yeah, that is what change), and glad to see him getting opportunities with the national squad now.

   Boss, you so don't get it that it's amazing that one person could be so assinine.  Maybe I was a little out of place for calling you an asshole, and I apologize.  Maybe "Francis, The Talking Mule" might have been more apropriate.  I am not arguing against the conventional wisdom of football that says that "National team starters should be Club team starters."   All I am saying is that there are times when that conventional wisdom HAS to go out the window, and SWP's situation is such a case........at least, in MY silly, random opinion.  
       Sadly, (and sometimes amusing) with all your high-flying overstating of the obvious, you can't see the forest from the trees.  There has been no direct relation to SWP's being benched at Chelsea and his skills having diminished because his skills have not diminished at all.   Maybe one can argue that his overall play may not have progressed as some people's linear chart may have projected by Jose choosing to play him according to his own tactics, but even so, and for what England's situation is and has been over the last three years, he still has had the skill sets and deserves to have been on the England squad.  Those skills are what got him called up in the first place.  He's creating scoring chances for Engliand's forwards same way he was setting up Crespo and Drogba two seasons ago when he joined Chelsea.  If anything, I have always opined that his perceived drop in form might be a result of him trying a little too hard with what few opportunities Mourinho was giving him. Translate: a loss in confidence.  Now with Robben gone, I think the other shoe falling would be him getting more playing time and fans seeing him be what he always has been since his first callup: a man more than good enough to be one of England's selections in midfield.

[Bakes]

  Boss, you so don't get it that it's amazing that one person could be so assinine.  Maybe I was a little out of place for calling you an asshole, and I apologize.  Maybe "Francis, The Talking Mule" might have been more apropriate.  I am not arguing against the conventional wisdom of football that says that "National team starters should be Club team starters."   All I am saying is that there are times when that conventional wisdom HAS to go out the window, and SWP's situation is such a case........at least, in MY silly, random opinion.  
       Sadly, (and sometimes amusing) with all your high-flying overstating of the obvious, you can't see the forest from the trees.  There has been no direct relation to SWP's being benched at Chelsea and his skills having diminished because his skills have not diminished at all.   Maybe one can argue that his overall play may not have progressed as some people's linear chart may have projected by Jose choosing to play him according to his own tactics, but even so, and for what England's situation is and has been over the last three years, he still has had the skill sets and deserves to have been on the England squad.  Those skills are what got him called up in the first place.  He's creating scoring chances for Engliand's forwards same way he was setting up Crespo and Drogba two seasons ago when he joined Chelsea.  If anything, I have always opined that his perceived drop in form might be a result of him trying a little too hard with what few opportunities Mourinho was giving him. Translate: a loss in confidence.  Now with Robben gone, I think the other shoe falling would be him getting more playing time and fans seeing him be what he always has been since his first callup: a man more than good enough to be one of England's selections in midfield.

Asinine only has one 's'...

I never said SWP's skills were diminishing.  Leh we leave it at that before ah start to overstate de obvious again.

You win 

[Mango Chow!]

  Boss, you so don't get it that it's amazing that one person could be so assinine.  Maybe I was a little out of place for calling you an asshole, and I apologize.  Maybe "Francis, The Talking Mule" might have been more apropriate.  I am not arguing against the conventional wisdom of football that says that "National team starters should be Club team starters."   All I am saying is that there are times when that conventional wisdom HAS to go out the window, and SWP's situation is such a case........at least, in MY silly, random opinion.  
       Sadly, (and sometimes amusing) with all your high-flying overstating of the obvious, you can't see the forest from the trees.  There has been no direct relation to SWP's being benched at Chelsea and his skills having diminished because his skills have not diminished at all.   Maybe one can argue that his overall play may not have progressed as some people's linear chart may have projected by Jose choosing to play him according to his own tactics, but even so, and for what England's situation is and has been over the last three years, he still has had the skill sets and deserves to have been on the England squad.  Those skills are what got him called up in the first place.  He's creating scoring chances for Engliand's forwards same way he was setting up Crespo and Drogba two seasons ago when he joined Chelsea.  If anything, I have always opined that his perceived drop in form might be a result of him trying a little too hard with what few opportunities Mourinho was giving him. Translate: a loss in confidence.  Now with Robben gone, I think the other shoe falling would be him getting more playing time and fans seeing him be what he always has been since his first callup: a man more than good enough to be one of England's selections in midfield.

Asinine only has one 's'...

I never said SWP's skills were diminishing.  Leh we leave it at that before ah start to overstate de obvious again.

You win 

   

   Not when it applies to you.