Strike over

[fishs]

 Apparently the sides agree to Sir Shridath Rampaul as arbitrator

 So the players make themselves available for selection'

 I suppose is back to first team licks again.
 Coming to think of it it was less stressfull when the make up team was getting licks.

[kaliman2006]

 Apparently the sides agree to Sir Shridath Rampaul as arbitrator

 So the players make themselves available for selection'

 I suppose is back to first team licks again.
 Coming to think of it it was less stressfull when the make up team was getting licks.

Yep, as weary would say, the beatings will continue.

[weary1969]

 Apparently the sides agree to Sir Shridath Rampaul as arbitrator

 So the players make themselves available for selection'

 I suppose is back to first team licks again.
 Coming to think of it it was less stressfull when the make up team was getting licks.

Yep, as weary would say, the beatings will continue.

COSIGNNNNNNNNNNNN

[vb]

 Apparently the sides agree to Sir Shridath Rampaul as arbitrator

 So the players make themselves available for selection'

 I suppose is back to first team licks again.
 Coming to think of it it was less stressfull when the make up team was getting licks.

 

[ann3boys]

 
this is the best board 

[Deeks]

This could have been avoided long ago. The WI are the losers in this whole escapade but the WIPA and the players may their point.

[sjahrain]

From the third string squad who do you think can make a case for the first team

[ann3boys]

hopefully d. sammy
 

[ann3boys]

now that the senior team is available, does anyone think they should replace those already selected for the one dayers?
I think they should be made to wait until the second game

[rotatopoti3]

West Indies contracts row

Lloyd and Holding slam WICB, WIPA

Nagraj Gollapudi

July 23, 2009

Chris Gayle, Dwayne Bravo and Shivnarine Chanderpaul in the indoor nets at Loughborough ahead of the 3rd ODI between England and West Indies at Trent Bridge, July 6, 2007
Clive Lloyd: "We have players who are being paid $500,000 or more and they do not pay a cent in any tax. We are the only country where players don't pay any tax."

Clive Lloyd and Michael Holding have blamed the West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) and the West Indies Players' Association (WIPA) for dragging West Indian cricket into a corner. The WICB and WIPA, which is negotiating on the cricketers' behalf, have agreed to resolve the impasse through mediation and the appointment of former Commonwealth secretary-general Shridath Ramphal as arbitrator but Lloyd and Holding said the problem would not be solved with a temporary resolution.

According to Lloyd, the leading West Indies players had become too "greedy" for their own good and their performances failed to measure up to the "obscene" amount of money they are getting paid. "When you say the West Indies team is going to withdraw from a series it is not that they are short of money. We have players who are millionaires with an average of 15.00 and they are a first-team pick," he said.

Lloyd was astonished about the fact that only three of the first-team players have a batting average of 35-plus [Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Ramnaresh Sarwan and Chris Gayle]. "We have players who are being paid $500,000 or more and they do not pay a cent in any tax. We are the only country where players don't pay any tax."

Holding, part of Lloyd's famous fast-bowling quartet that helped establish West Indies' dominance in the 1970s, said the blame lay with both WIPA and the WICB. "The WICB are a dysfunctional organisation that need to realise they are dealing with a modern game and changing times," he said. "They have been left behind due to their inept staff and an outdated board of directors, most of whom take up space instead of offering something to the organisation or the game."

As for the WIPA, Holding was not sure if certain individuals were using the players' body to actually settle personal scores with the board. "Have they [WIPA] ever produced a list of members to show whom they represent?," he said. "Are people involved with their organisation carrying chips on their shoulders or grouses with the board from their playing days?"

Lloyd was not far behind in criticising WIPA. "WIPA is not trying to achieving anything but strengthen their bank balance. When you have an association that caters to various needs of the players, you need to love the game and I do not think we have a lot of people at WIPA who are in love with the game," he said.

As an example Lloyd cites payments for West Indies' tour of England where, according to him, WIPA got away with ransom. His main grouse was why the board needed to pay the five players who had to opt out of the IPL mid-way to join England tour earlier this summer. "WICB received $2 million for the England series but our players wanted 600,000," Lloyd said. "Then we had to compensate someone for missing out on the IPL. What I can't understand why do we need to compensate and pay somebody to play for your country. That to me is nonsense. We moved up to $1.48 million but they stuck to their guns and said the board still had to compensate the players who missed out on the IPL."

Lloyd and Holding agree the WICB was, and has been, the original culprit in the case and both have had a pungent taste of the closed environment within the WICB ranks. A few years ago the pair were part of the cricket committee of the West Indies board, comprising former greats, formed to help pick West Indies cricket out of the rut it had found itself after the retirement of the Sir Viv Richards in the mid-1990s. Holding later resigned over differences of opinion with the board. Both now agree that the board needs a desperate infusion of modern professional methods of governance if the game has to progress in the Caribbean.

"It can't be a case where a board member is there for life. The honorary secretary has been around for 40 years," said Lloyd. "The solution is to include former players into its set-up as that would help administrators manage the game better once they understand clearly where the players are coming from."

Holding said the obvious damage to West Indies cricket is the way sponsors will look upon the entire entity. "The performances on the field have not been heart-warming and if the people entrusted to run the game, the people the sponsors will be interacting with directly, are made to look so incompetent, what will encourage them to get on board with West Indies Cricket?," he said. "Nothing works without sponsorship in the Caribbean. It is not a rich part of the world."

According to Lloyd, the only way for players to be on top of the bargaining is by "winning", but the WICB needs to take charge as well. "WICB needs to be in charge just like other countries' boards - Australia, England etc - are."

As a long-term solution, Holding suggested that both organisations first get their act together and become trustworthy. "They then need to copy the formula used by Cricket Australia to compensate their cricketers. It is a very equitable formula that is not a secret and both their players association and the board are happy with it."


Thank you Michael for reiterating what I believed from the start..... Oh and wait...they dont get taxed....  Out of curiousity...what percentage is the WIPA president pocketing per series? It have to be profitable...man cant be fighting only for players....   2+2 = 5

[weary1969]

LOUD STEUPS Lloyd in your daydid u pay tax? Holding y u eh just hush. D board does disclose anything y u eh focus on dem. As 4 settling grouse nonesense d WICB doin crap since Rock of Ages was a pebble.

[weary1969]

History     
When was WIPA established?
WIPA was established in 1973 and incorporated under the Companies Act (Sections 9 and 309) 1995 of Trinidad and Tobago on 19th March 2003.

Statement on Establishment
Please see below a statement by one of the founding members of WIPA, Mr. Deryck Murray, on the establishment of the organization in 1973.

“This will not benefit me, but it may help some of you fellas so I will sign the letter”.

These were the words spoken by Sir Garfield Sobers and echoed by the other senior players and captain Rohan Kanhai as the West Indies team, then on tour of England in 1973, formally agreed to the formation of the West Indies Players Association.

The letter in question, signed by every member of that 1973 team, informed the West Indies Cricket Board of Control that we had joined together as the Players Association and asked for recognition of the Association as the body that would represent the players in future. That was indeed a momentous occasion for all the players and certainly for me as the coordinator of that group and that movement. It marked the point when cricketers decided to unite in their common interest and to ensure that they would no longer be treated as second-class citizens. It is no coincidence that this was the precursor to the most successful period of West Indies cricket.

Uniting the players in 1973 was the easy part. The senior players (Sobers, Kanhai, Lance Gibbs and I) had come under the influence of the greatest Test Captain of all, Sir Frank Worrell, so the foundation had already been laid. Furthermore, we as well as Clive Lloyd, Roy Fredericks, Alvin Kallicharran, Lawrence Rowe, Vanburn Holder, Keith Boyce, Bernard Julien and Ron Headley were at various stages of establishing ourselves as full professional cricketers with contracts for English counties. Maurice Foster, Inshan Ali and the “amateurs” were solid in their support as they recognized that we would also be representing them and the other local players taking part in the regional competition (then Shell Shield, now Carib Beer Series).

Convincing the West Indies Board that we had the best interests of West Indies cricket at heart has always been the difficult battle. At the very outset we were aware that, as far as the Board was concerned, the Association would not be a welcome innovation. In fact, I was warned that I was putting my West Indies cricket career at risk as I would be “targeted” by the Board and “dropped’ at the first opportunity. We were careful, therefore, at that initial meeting to elect only two officers: Rohan Kanhai as President and me as General Secretary. We made it clear that we intended that the position of President would always be a non-executive role held by the captain of the team and we would ensure that it would not conflict with his role and responsibilities of captain. We immediately enlisted the help of a then budding young solicitor, Wayne Smart (who was soon to represent the Trinidad & Tobago cricket team) to donate his services to draft our first constitution.

It is important to understand, the historical perspective of the issues facing us in 1973. In the early days there were the four “big colonies” (Jamaica, British Guiana, Trinidad and Barbados) which constituted the West Indies for cricket purposes, and there were three groups of players in each of these territories: the plantocracy, the indigenous professional/technical middle class, and those from the “working class”. Or, if one prefers a more simplistic classification the “whites” and the “non whites”. These players may have played for the same teams but when they travelled, even as the West Indies team, they would stay in different hotels. Those who were able to secure contracts to play cricket as professionals (primarily in the Lancashire Leagues in England) were considered “second class” or “not intelligent enough to get proper jobs”. Those early pioneers like George Headley, Learie Constantine, Everton Weekes and Frank Worrell were applauded for their cricket prowess but were not respected as people although once Constantine (later to be Lord Constantine, the first black man to be appointed to the House of Lords) and Worrell returned with university degrees and law qualifications they were afforded some measure of respect.

My first direct contact with this type of situation came when, still at Queen’s Royal College, I was selected for the 1963 tour of England. Sobers, Kanhai and Wes Hall, our top professional cricketers asked the West Indies Board for increased payments to tour. Some of the players selected for the tour – Conrad Hunte, Charlie Griffith, Seymour Nurse, Basil Butcher, Lance Gibbs – were plying their trade in the Lancashire Leagues while Sobers, Kanhai and Hall were also contracted to Australian State teams and these latter wanted to be paid in line with their professional earnings. The two sides dug their heels in and there was a danger that Sobers, Kanhai and Hall would not tour.

My naïve, young mind couldn’t come to terms with the full implications…straight out of school I couldn’t understand why anybody would argue for a few dollars more TO PLAY CRICKET FOT THE WEST INDIES. I was overwhelmed by the fact that I would receive £1 Sterling ($4.80 local currency at the time) for each day of the tour! That was double the amount we received for playing in Trinidad matches! Fortunately Frank Worrell, team captain and astute statesman, brokered a compromise and kept the team intact for a most successful tour.

It was not long before I came to understand the real issues, however. The professionals received a tour fee which, normally, each negotiated individually (always with the threat that “if you don’t accept we can always picks someone else”). On the other hand, the amateurs were recompensed for “loss of earnings”, i.e., what they could have earned from their normal jobs. More often than not the amateurs actually received more money than the professionals. The amateur was also able to preserve his pension and other benefits while there was no such provision for the professional.

These and many other related issues persisted into 1973. By then however, the majority of the West Indies team were playing as professionals for English counties and we were members of the newly formed English Cricketers Association. I had just completed my university degree and regained my place in the WI team, so, with one of my academic subjects being Industrial Relations; I felt that I was ready to negotiate with the West Indies Board!

The players’ exposure to professional cricket in England and the opportunity to network with our international colleagues provided the impetus for us to come together to fight for our rights as cricketers and to promote the game in the Caribbean. As county cricketers we were paid on par with the English and other players (some West Indians, as “the overseas stars” were in fact among the highest paid). However we were paid significantly less for Test matches than the other teams and while this was in part a reflection of the relative strengths of the economics, we were convinced that the West Indian cricket administrators were selling us short. For example in 1963 the West Indies Board received a share of gate receipts which resulted in a profit in excess of £30,000; whereas in 1973 they accepted a “fee” of £10,000 as their share of what were record profits for England in excess of £100,000.

The West Indian players felt that we needed to be able to discuss such issues with the Board. Primarily we wanted to negotiate for adequate compensation for us as players but we also wanted to help the Board to access greater sponsorship and profit share funds in order to adequately finance regional and domestic cricket in the West Indies.

Preparing and putting our names to that letter in 1973 was a bold step. We all shared a vision of West Indies being the No.1 team in the world and West Indies players being paid in a commensurate manner. We also recognized the need for injury and life insurance coverage and a pension scheme. We knew however that to achieve these, we would have to be responsible and play our part in helping the West Indies Board to achieve a sound financial basis.
Thanks in no small measure to the influence of the Board’s treasurer of the day, Dick Hobday; we were able to set up the West Indies Benevolent Fund (a pension scheme funded by 5% of the player’s fees and a 10% contribution from the Board) as our first major triumph. This fund still serves the present day players.

The vast majority of those players who launched the Players Association in 1973 reaped very little direct benefit except for the pride we feel when we see our present players, through WIPA, taking their place alongside the other members of the international cricketers association, FICA.

This article was written by Mr. Deryck Murray a founding member of the West Indies Players' Association
 
 

[dwolfman]

LOUD STEUPS Lloyd in your daydid u pay tax? Holding y u eh just hush. D board does disclose anything y u eh focus on dem. As 4 settling grouse nonesense d WICB doin crap since Rock of Ages was a pebble.

That is not fair. It takes 2 to fight and it is difficult for me to accept that WIPA has not made their own mess of the situation. The problem is WICB have been making their own mess for far longer without any sort of redress when they come up short.

WICB reminds me of the political situation here in T&T. A group of obsolete old men who refuse to give up their positions or upgrade their opinions. What they make is more important than Windies cricket. That doesn't mean that WIPA have managed the situation properly. Is it unreasonable to ask for a list of members so we know who they represent? Failure to do so reeks of the same high handedness and information hoarding of the WICB. If Lloyd never paid taxes (can you verify that he has not) does that mean that the practice should continue? Two wrongs never made anything right and to argue that one person got away with something so the other should as well doesn't hold any water.

[weary1969]

LOUD STEUPS Lloyd in your daydid u pay tax? Holding y u eh just hush. D board does disclose anything y u eh focus on dem. As 4 settling grouse nonesense d WICB doin crap since Rock of Ages was a pebble.

That is not fair. It takes 2 to fight and it is difficult for me to accept that WIPA has not made their own mess of the situation. The problem is WICB have been making their own mess for far longer without any sort of redress when they come up short.

WICB reminds me of the political situation here in T&T. A group of obsolete old men who refuse to give up their positions or upgrade their opinions. What they make is more important than Windies cricket. That doesn't mean that WIPA have managed the situation properly. Is it unreasonable to ask for a list of members so we know who they represent? Failure to do so reeks of the same high handedness and information hoarding of the WICB. If Lloyd never paid taxes (can you verify that he has not) does that mean that the practice should continue? Two wrongs never made anything right and to argue that one person got away with something so the other should as well doesn't hold any water.

It take 2 to tango agreed but if u go 2 abitration 7 times and u loose all 7 times. I go side wit WIPA.

[dwolfman]

It is not a matter of taking sides, it's a matter of resolving the issues. To take WIPA's side and ignore their mistakes is dangerous. So it is okay for them to be unable to name who they represent? It is okay for players to continue to not pay taxes? Is it okay to sabotage an international series continuously over a 5-year period? I agree that they need to fight for their players, but a professionally run sport includes the running of the Players' Association as well as the Board.

[Deeks]

Guys,
Does Wipa move any different than any union, NFl players, NBA players, MajorLb, MLS??? They doing the same thing as them other unions. They fighting for the players benifits. To be honest, I think most of all yuh think the players should not strike and keep taking what ever the board think is right for them

[weary1969]

Guys,
Does Wipa move any different than any union, NFl players, NBA players, MajorLb, MLS??? They doing the same thing as them other unions. They fighting for the players benifits. To be honest, I think most of all yuh think the players should not strike and keep taking what ever the board think is right for them

COSIGNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[dwolfman]

now that the senior team is available, does anyone think they should replace those already selected for the one dayers?
I think they should be made to wait until the second game

Why should they be made to wait? Don't the selectors have a responsibility to select the best team available?

Guys,
Does Wipa move any different than any union, NFl players, NBA players, MajorLb, MLS??? They doing the same thing as them other unions. They fighting for the players benifits. To be honest, I think most of all yuh think the players should not strike and keep taking what ever the board think is right for them

How is the WIPA similar to the corresponding bodies of MLS, MLB, NBA or NFL? Is every single season threatened by a player pull out? Are players' issues unresolved for 5 years or more? I'm genuinely interested to see how they are similar. While I have no problems with them fighting for the rights of the players, I have problems with the view that they are 1) solving any problems (if anything it might be the contrary) and 2) they should be left unchallenged while our cricket suffers.

The WICB alone is not West Indies cricket nor are they singularly responsible for the success or failure of the game. We must also hold the players, WIPA and the respective cricket Boards in each region responsible as well.

Check this article by Dr. Webster. I like his approach to the topic.

[Deeks]

Right now the issue is between WIPA and WICBC. I doubt the players and WIPA say, "let's go crazy and strike". Them guys must have legit. issues with the benefits structure of WI cricket. The reason why the threatening to strike every year is because the problems are not being resolved.

[weary1969]

Right now the issue is between WIPA and WICBC. I doubt the players and WIPA say, "let's go crazy and strike". Them guys must have legit. issues with the benefits structure of WI cricket. The reason why the threatening to strike every year is because the problems are not being resolved.

D strike is bout Ramnarine and d lack of playin time in he days.

[sammy]

Right now the issue is between WIPA and WICBC. I doubt the players and WIPA say, "let's go crazy and strike". Them guys must have legit. issues with the benefits structure of WI cricket. The reason why the threatening to strike every year is because the problems are not being resolved.

D strike is bout Ramnarine and d lack of playin time in he days.

He probably wants to make sure the no player gets a raw deal like he did in the past.

[sinned]

wolf is right that we shouldn't just choose sides and ignore valid viewpoints from the other side... but when the board loses all 7 times in arbitration, you get a good idea of which side has more solid grounds to stand on.

[dwolfman]

In addition to losing 7 times in the arbitration battles we see them cutting off their nose to spite their face by refusing to call up the regular players. If ever we needed proof that the WICB is a flawed organisation who would rather get their way than support the players we have it now. That being said I stand by my position on WIPA. Old folk are fond of saying something that goes like "open your fist and I'll shake your hand." Both organisations need radical changes in personnel and philosophy.

Right now the issue is between WIPA and WICBC. I doubt the players and WIPA say, "let's go crazy and strike". Them guys must have legit. issues with the benefits structure of WI cricket. The reason why the threatening to strike every year is because the problems are not being resolved.

This is my point and why I think they are a part of the problem. How can you keep doing the same thing over and over and it is not working? Vinegar has never been known to catch flies.

[weary1969]

Right now the issue is between WIPA and WICBC. I doubt the players and WIPA say, "let's go crazy and strike". Them guys must have legit. issues with the benefits structure of WI cricket. The reason why the threatening to strike every year is because the problems are not being resolved.

D strike is bout Ramnarine and d lack of playin time in he days.

He probably wants to make sure the no player gets a raw deal like he did in the past.

Dat eh what Holding meant.