June 16, 2024, 05:05:13 AM

Author Topic: toronto streetcar shooting  (Read 3999 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
toronto streetcar shooting
« on: July 30, 2013, 01:25:04 PM »
what was de point of tazering dude AFTER shooting him?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PuItH2raahg" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/PuItH2raahg</a>

Offline Dutty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9578
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2013, 02:28:23 PM »
To make sure de bullets heat up and cauterize the wounds?

Police union is stress oui....yuh shoot ah youth dead and he punishment is to take de rest of the summer off WITH pay :P
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2013, 03:44:30 PM »
To make sure de bullets heat up and cauterize the wounds?

Police union is stress oui....yuh shoot ah youth dead and he punishment is to take de rest of the summer off WITH pay :P

How yuh go "punish" him before the investigation complete... which union (or court) would ever agree to that?

Offline pecan

  • Steups ...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6855
  • Billy Goats Gruff
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2013, 08:07:40 PM »
I want to see the video from the on board security cameras.  Nine shots to subdue a irate man with a knife on a street car with no passengers? 
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Dutty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9578
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2013, 06:09:49 AM »
To make sure de bullets heat up and cauterize the wounds?

Police union is stress oui....yuh shoot ah youth dead and he punishment is to take de rest of the summer off WITH pay :P

How yuh go "punish" him before the investigation complete... which union (or court) would ever agree to that?

I was being lil sarcastic with de punish talk...since punishment would never involve a paid summer vacation

But is not like de union suspend him without pay until investigation done or give de man ah desk job......he basically get ah free pass to go cancun
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

Offline pecan

  • Steups ...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6855
  • Billy Goats Gruff
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2013, 07:01:43 AM »
New video of shooting - audio link in following link

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/30/new-security-camera-footage-shows-the-moment-sammy-yatim-was-shot-by-toronto-police/#ooid=J1NnBxZDqmO-UO--uhNs0C55HOJ2Al4f


Here is the video: go to minute 3:00 just before the shooting - you can see the victim and then he drops to the floor at minute 3:47. Up to min 4:00 you can see the body convulsing from shots or tasering

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xyMUyv_vf1k" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xyMUyv_vf1k</a>


just a thought .. if the victim was black, would there be outcries of racism?
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18671
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2013, 07:19:44 AM »
New video of shooting - audio link in following link

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/30/new-security-camera-footage-shows-the-moment-sammy-yatim-was-shot-by-toronto-police/#ooid=J1NnBxZDqmO-UO--uhNs0C55HOJ2Al4f


Here is the video: go to minute 3:00 just before the shooting - you can see the victim and then he drops to the floor at minute 3:47. Up to min 4:00 you can see the body convulsing from shots or tasering

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xyMUyv_vf1k" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xyMUyv_vf1k</a>


just a thought .. if the victim was black, would there be outcries of racism?


Yes!

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2013, 10:51:01 AM »
To make sure de bullets heat up and cauterize the wounds?

Police union is stress oui....yuh shoot ah youth dead and he punishment is to take de rest of the summer off WITH pay :P

How yuh go "punish" him before the investigation complete... which union (or court) would ever agree to that?

I was being lil sarcastic with de punish talk...since punishment would never involve a paid summer vacation

But is not like de union suspend him without pay until investigation done or give de man ah desk job......he basically get ah free pass to go cancun


First off the Union would not be the ones suspending him since they are not his employers... the Police Department would.  Secondly, suspension without pay is punishment since you hitting him in the pocket, and doing so before you even establish whether he committed a wrong or not.  Legally they cannot do it.

giggsy11

  • Guest
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2013, 12:57:29 PM »
If a person is armed with only a knife or unharmed but threatening, how come police don't shoot to maim/preserve a life, instead of shooting to kill? I never understand the thought process in their approach. As far as I know that is still an option is it not?

Offline Dutty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9578
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 01:09:32 PM »


First off the Union would not be the ones suspending him since they are not his employers... the Police Department would.  Secondly, suspension without pay is punishment since you hitting him in the pocket, and doing so before you even establish whether he committed a wrong or not.  Legally they cannot do it.



Lawd :D ah forget ah dealin with ah man who have OCD pet peeves on precise wording with 3 line posts

Yes I am cognizant of exactly what body suspended him.  I'm also aware that the criteria for suspension is created by the union
My point was to highlight the absurdity of the legal machinations behind the whole process

The posts presented by this poster should not be interpreted literally but for the purposes of levity.  Any detailed posts details shall be limited to the posters intellectual property and thus retained within the empty recesses of his synaptic wiring
The postings are designed for individuals 13 years of age or younger.  Moreover Dutty is  responsible for all his activities and content posted/uploaded. In addition to upholding this Code of Conduct, you are responsible for adhering to all applicable local and national and two line internet posting laws.
The poster name’ Dutty’ is fictitious and shall heretofore not be used for abuse or within reason any malicious purposes on board posts
The postings are made available for download solely for use by end users according to the License Agreement. Any reproduction or redistribution of  ‘dutty’ postings not in accordance with the License Agreement is expressly prohibited by law, (Section 6 Subsection 5 of the Flex and Tallman souse agreement) and may result in severe civil and criminal penalties. Violators will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible.


Giggsy, if I remember correct all dem forces does be trained to shoot to kill one time
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

giggsy11

  • Guest
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 01:43:08 PM »


First off the Union would not be the ones suspending him since they are not his employers... the Police Department would.  Secondly, suspension without pay is punishment since you hitting him in the pocket, and doing so before you even establish whether he committed a wrong or not.  Legally they cannot do it.



Lawd :D ah forget ah dealin with ah man who have OCD pet peeves on precise wording with 3 line posts

Yes I am cognizant of exactly what body suspended him.  I'm also aware that the criteria for suspension is created by the union
My point was to highlight the absurdity of the legal machinations behind the whole process

The posts presented by this poster should not be interpreted literally but for the purposes of levity.  Any detailed posts details shall be limited to the posters intellectual property and thus retained within the empty recesses of his synaptic wiring
The postings are designed for individuals 13 years of age or younger.  Moreover Dutty is  responsible for all his activities and content posted/uploaded. In addition to upholding this Code of Conduct, you are responsible for adhering to all applicable local and national and two line internet posting laws.
The poster name’ Dutty’ is fictitious and shall heretofore not be used for abuse or within reason any malicious purposes on board posts
The postings are made available for download solely for use by end users according to the License Agreement. Any reproduction or redistribution of  ‘dutty’ postings not in accordance with the License Agreement is expressly prohibited by law, (Section 6 Subsection 5 of the Flex and Tallman souse agreement) and may result in severe civil and criminal penalties. Violators will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible.


Giggsy, if I remember correct all dem forces does be trained to shoot to kill one time

Ok, thanks Dutty!  :beermug: That is just crazy how they have such little regarding for people's life and apply only one solution, to different scenarios. Is bad enough they get away with shoot people in the back, but dam, any sudden movements and they outtin yuh lite!

Offline pecan

  • Steups ...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6855
  • Billy Goats Gruff
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2013, 02:11:58 PM »
Line 1: Dutty, how could you forget that you are not dealing with a pococurante? you must strive for accuracy else run the risk of objurgation or animadversion.

Line 2: I fixed the point size on your disclaimer to make it less exiguous and thereby legible.

Line 3:  :beermug: (is this line permissible?)

First off the Union would not be the ones suspending him since they are not his employers... the Police Department would.  Secondly, suspension without pay is punishment since you hitting him in the pocket, and doing so before you even establish whether he committed a wrong or not.  Legally they cannot do it.

Lawd :D ah forget ah dealin with ah man who have OCD pet peeves on precise wording with 3 line posts

Yes I am cognizant of exactly what body suspended him.  I'm also aware that the criteria for suspension is created by the union
My point was to highlight the absurdity of the legal machinations behind the whole process

The posts presented by this poster should not be interpreted literally but for the purposes of levity.  Any detailed posts details shall be limited to the posters intellectual property and thus retained within the empty recesses of his synaptic wiring
The postings are designed for individuals 13 years of age or younger.  Moreover Dutty is  responsible for all his activities and content posted/uploaded. In addition to upholding this Code of Conduct, you are responsible for adhering to all applicable local and national and two line internet posting laws.
The poster name’ Dutty’ is fictitious and shall heretofore not be used for abuse or within reason any malicious purposes on board posts
The postings are made available for download solely for use by end users according to the License Agreement. Any reproduction or redistribution of  ‘dutty’ postings not in accordance with the License Agreement is expressly prohibited by law, (Section 6 Subsection 5 of the Flex and Tallman souse agreement) and may result in severe civil and criminal penalties. Violators will be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible.


Giggsy, if I remember correct all dem forces does be trained to shoot to kill one time
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline pecan

  • Steups ...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6855
  • Billy Goats Gruff
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2013, 04:59:49 PM »
For those of you so inclined ...

Petition on Change.org to charge the Police Officer Responsible

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/justice-for-sammy-yatim-charge-the-police-officer-responsible

Now here is my two cents: we don't know the details of the shooting not withstanding the video evidence.

And to 'charge' the Constable (Canadian police are not officers, they are constables) just because the court of public opinion says so, is the same as tossing out our judicial systems.

The petition is premature.




Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Dutty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9578
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2013, 05:14:52 PM »
Boy, fine print make to stay fine
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

Nashy

  • Guest
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2013, 05:57:23 PM »
Out in the Streets they call it Murder!

Sad all around.

Offline pecan

  • Steups ...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6855
  • Billy Goats Gruff
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2013, 09:04:44 PM »
Boy, fine print make to stay fine

When the fine print is so fine, the world needs to see it.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2013, 12:56:19 PM »
For those of you so inclined ...

Petition on Change.org to charge the Police Officer Responsible

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/justice-for-sammy-yatim-charge-the-police-officer-responsible

Now here is my two cents: we don't know the details of the shooting not withstanding the video evidence.

And to 'charge' the Constable (Canadian police are not officers, they are constables) just because the court of public opinion says so, is the same as tossing out our judicial systems.

The petition is premature.

toss out the judicial system? we go do that after we done the senate  ;)

but serious, is there is a judge in the land that could look at that video and conclude that the police actions were justified? if so, then justice truly blind.

Nashy

  • Guest
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2013, 06:31:26 PM »
Maybe the police constable's defense will be Ailurophobia.

He did call the man a pussy before shooting him.

Offline pecan

  • Steups ...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6855
  • Billy Goats Gruff
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2013, 07:21:55 PM »
For those of you so inclined ...

Petition on Change.org to charge the Police Officer Responsible

https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/justice-for-sammy-yatim-charge-the-police-officer-responsible

Now here is my two cents: we don't know the details of the shooting not withstanding the video evidence.

And to 'charge' the Constable (Canadian police are not officers, they are constables) just because the court of public opinion says so, is the same as tossing out our judicial systems.

The petition is premature.

toss out the judicial system? we go do that after we done the senate  ;)

but serious, is there is a judge in the land that could look at that video and conclude that the police actions were justified? if so, then justice truly blind.

exactly, let a judge (or jury) make that call, not the general public.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2013, 09:31:29 AM »
well look like the officer catch a 2nd degree murder charge. good.

Offline ZANDOLIE

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4339
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2013, 11:07:02 AM »
well look like the officer catch a 2nd degree murder charge. good.

wait...wasn't he wearing a hoodie? didn't you say trayvon martin was partly responsible for his own demise because he was wearing a hoodie?

plus this fella had a knife...didn't you say martin died because he foolishly entered a fist fight with a man with a gun?

maybe its just me, but you seem to be passing judgement based on ethnic considerations, then scrounging for facts to justify your views ex post facto.
Sacred cows make the best hamburger

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2013, 04:07:06 PM »
well look like the officer catch a 2nd degree murder charge. good.

wait...wasn't he wearing a hoodie? didn't you say trayvon martin was partly responsible for his own demise because he was wearing a hoodie?

plus this fella had a knife...didn't you say martin died because he foolishly entered a fist fight with a man with a gun?

maybe its just me, but you seem to be passing judgement based on ethnic considerations, then scrounging for facts to justify your views ex post facto.

zando, yuh ever hear of de 2nd amendment?

Offline ZANDOLIE

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4339
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2013, 05:37:09 PM »
lol, answer the question please. you said trayvon martin's death was his own fault because he was wearing a hoodie. not only was this yuteman wearing a hoodie, he was brandishing a knife. and according to at least one witness on the bus he was threatening passengers, preventing people from leaving the bus, ignoring repeated warnings from police, while exposing his private parts to all and sundry. martin was apparently walking home armed with a pack of skittles.

i'm just curious as to why you characterized an unarmed martin as completely culpable in his own demise but dancing for joy when a police officer is charged with killing an armed man.
Sacred cows make the best hamburger

Offline ZANDOLIE

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4339
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2013, 07:31:09 PM »
New video of shooting - audio link in following link

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/30/new-security-camera-footage-shows-the-moment-sammy-yatim-was-shot-by-toronto-police/#ooid=J1NnBxZDqmO-UO--uhNs0C55HOJ2Al4f


Here is the video: go to minute 3:00 just before the shooting - you can see the victim and then he drops to the floor at minute 3:47. Up to min 4:00 you can see the body convulsing from shots or tasering

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xyMUyv_vf1k" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xyMUyv_vf1k</a>


just a thought .. if the victim was black, would there be outcries of racism?

from certain quarters, yes. but there would also be strong outcry in defence of the police shooting an armed ÈthugÈ
Sacred cows make the best hamburger

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2013, 02:37:47 AM »
eh, eh, selwyn pieters have a take on this.

==

Why James Forcillo was charged with murder in Yatim shooting


Toronto police officer not surprised by charges over fatal Toronto streetcar incident

By Daniel Schwartz, CBC

Less than four weeks after Toronto police Const. James Forcillo shot 18-year-old Sammy Yatim, the Ontario Special Investigations Unit has charged Forcillo with second-degree murder.

The SIU — which investigates when police officers are involved in incidents where someone has been seriously injured, dies or alleges sexual assault — acted with uncharacteristic speed in the Toronto streetcar shooting, perhaps because of videos of the incident that have been watched around the world.

Toronto lawyer Julian Falconer told CBC Radio's Mary Ito that the availability of video evidence is an important reason charges were laid when they were.

Toronto police union president Mike McCormack says Forcillo is upset about the charges, but neither he nor Forcillo was surprised. McCormack did say he's shocked that the charge is second-degree murder.

It's only the second time a Toronto police shooting has led to a second-degree murder charge. The first was in 2012 in connection with the death of Eric Osawe during a raid at an apartment in 2010, which also followed an SIU investigation. However, the judge at Const. David Cavanagh's preliminary hearing threw out the murder charge and also discharged the lesser charge of manslaughter.

Const.James Forcillo faces a rare second-degree murder charge in the death of Sammy Yatim, who was shot multiple times while apparently wielding a knife on an empty Toronto streetcar on July 27. (Movember.com/Canadian Press)Second-degree murder implies intent to kill the victim. The Crown brings a manslaughter charge when it does not believe the killing was intentional.


Prosecuting case a "Herculean task'


Selwyn Pieters, a Toronto lawyer with considerable experience representing the families of people shot by police, told CBC News that while a charge of second-degree murder does leave the judge and jury with a number of options, including opting for a less charge, he thinks the charge in Forcillo's case should have been manslaughter.

"It's going to be a more difficult hurdle for the Crown to surmount if it's second degree," Pieters said. He described prosecuting this case as a "Herculean task."

Pieters also noted that jurors have been reluctant to convict police officers acting in the line of duty. "Rarely do we have cases where police officers are charged and heard before a jury on serious offences and a verdict of guilty is returned," he said.

Selwyn Pieters, a lawyer who has represented a number of the families of people shot by police, says the SIU should have charged Forcillo with manslaughter rather than second-degree murder. (Colin Perkel/Canadian Press)Ross McLean, a crime specialist in Toronto, says "the SIU must feel they have compelling evidence for second-degree murder — that they feel it's warranted, that they spoke to the Crown about it and the Crown would have concurred to lay the charge, so they must feel they have a clear case."

While all the evidence that the SIU has gathered remains out of the public eye, McLean thinks they believe they can prove "there's a degree of intentionality" in the Yatim shooting.

Forcillo's defence will likely ride on self-defence arguments. Much will depend on what he says was his perception of the situation during those crucial moments early on July 27.

McLean, a former Toronto police officer, says there is a positive side to the charges: "Officers don't want to have an investigation hanging over them for months at a time. To have it come out and get dealt with right away is probably just as well for the officers."


Videos just part of the evidence

While the videos of the incident will be critical evidence, there's also the the eyewitness testimony and the other evidence, especially the pathologist's report.

Former Toronto police officer Ross McLean says thatwith the charge being laid, the case will 'get dealt with right away [which] is probably just as well for the officers.' (CBC)That report could be as important as the video evidence, Pieters says, as it will indicate the entry and exit points of the bullets and their sequence.

Unlike many other police shootings, a number of civilians could be called to give eyewitness testimony if Forcillo is eventually tried.

While the evidence provided an objective basis for the SIU review of the officer's conduct, Pieters says coupled with that is "the public pressure, with the significant demonstrations and calls from various civil groups in Toronto for charges to be laid" that forced the SIU's hand.

In that sense, the video played a dual role, Pieters argues. Without the video, "It would have been highly unlikely that the SIU would have laid charges and it would have been unlikely that there would have been such a public display of outrage."

After noting that the SIU would say they rely on the evidence, McLean warned, "make no doubt about it, the eyes of Canada and the world are on this shooting."

YouTube videos of the shooting have been viewed about 1.8 million times and probably several times that number have seen the video on television or on other websites.

"The public is informed and they want answers," McLean said.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 10:06:01 AM by ribbit »

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2013, 10:09:01 AM »
lol, answer the question please. you said trayvon martin's death was his own fault because he was wearing a hoodie. not only was this yuteman wearing a hoodie, he was brandishing a knife. and according to at least one witness on the bus he was threatening passengers, preventing people from leaving the bus, ignoring repeated warnings from police, while exposing his private parts to all and sundry. martin was apparently walking home armed with a pack of skittles.

i'm just curious as to why you characterized an unarmed martin as completely culpable in his own demise but dancing for joy when a police officer is charged with killing an armed man.

Zando it should be obvious that the most important factor in comparing yatim with trayvon martin is that martin was in the usa and yatim was in canada. The existence of legally armed citizens changes things. You want to take comments from the trayvon martin thread and apply them to some place else? Does not make any sense.

Offline ZANDOLIE

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4339
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2013, 10:33:21 AM »
lol, answer the question please. you said trayvon martin's death was his own fault because he was wearing a hoodie. not only was this yuteman wearing a hoodie, he was brandishing a knife. and according to at least one witness on the bus he was threatening passengers, preventing people from leaving the bus, ignoring repeated warnings from police, while exposing his private parts to all and sundry. martin was apparently walking home armed with a pack of skittles.

i'm just curious as to why you characterized an unarmed martin as completely culpable in his own demise but dancing for joy when a police officer is charged with killing an armed man.


Zando it should be obvious that the most important factor in comparing yatim with trayvon martin is that martin was in the usa and yatim was in canada. The existence of legally armed citizens changes things. You want to take comments from the trayvon martin thread and apply them to some place else? Does not make any sense.

but my question does not concern that. my question is what is the basis for your blaming an unarmed minor, in b-boy clothing, walking home, committing no crime, for engineering his own demise, while cheerleading for an adult who was dressed in the same b-boy fashion, cussing and threatening people with a knife, repeatedly disobeying police instruction for an extended period of time, waving his dick in his hands in public? in other words..why the anti-black bias

look hard in the mirror and ask yourself if in your desire to see the black diaspora do better (and rightfully so) you are making some unfair judgements.


Sacred cows make the best hamburger

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2013, 12:00:44 PM »
lol, answer the question please. you said trayvon martin's death was his own fault because he was wearing a hoodie. not only was this yuteman wearing a hoodie, he was brandishing a knife. and according to at least one witness on the bus he was threatening passengers, preventing people from leaving the bus, ignoring repeated warnings from police, while exposing his private parts to all and sundry. martin was apparently walking home armed with a pack of skittles.

i'm just curious as to why you characterized an unarmed martin as completely culpable in his own demise but dancing for joy when a police officer is charged with killing an armed man.


Zando it should be obvious that the most important factor in comparing yatim with trayvon martin is that martin was in the usa and yatim was in canada. The existence of legally armed citizens changes things. You want to take comments from the trayvon martin thread and apply them to some place else? Does not make any sense.

but my question does not concern that. my question is what is the basis for your blaming an unarmed minor, in b-boy clothing, walking home, committing no crime, for engineering his own demise, while cheerleading for an adult who was dressed in the same b-boy fashion, cussing and threatening people with a knife, repeatedly disobeying police instruction for an extended period of time, waving his dick in his hands in public? in other words..why the anti-black bias

look hard in the mirror and ask yourself if in your desire to see the black diaspora do better (and rightfully so) you are making some unfair judgements.




zando, your question does not make sense to me without appreciating is a different law and a different social expectation at play here. a lawman in toronto should not get the same latitiude as a lawman in the usa. if you raise in the usa, yuh better understand that even though you may not be armed, plenty of others are and doh be surprised if the cops or some rent-a-cop treat you as if you are armed. that is basic common sense. that is common sense backed by empirical evidence as well. the amount of people that get shot in the usa compared to canada just through day to day confrontations - regardless of whether they white or black although definitely heavily skewed towards black on black situations - say you CANNOT pretend the two contexts are the same. yet seem like want to wish it away like that doh make a difference. de evidence there, it does make a difference, even though you seem to want to ignore it.

anyway, someone point out that the cops in manitoba that handled the case of the guy that decapitated the passenger on the greyhound bus did a much better job. they didn't wild out like this fool.

Offline ZANDOLIE

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4339
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2013, 01:08:01 PM »
lol, answer the question please. you said trayvon martin's death was his own fault because he was wearing a hoodie. not only was this yuteman wearing a hoodie, he was brandishing a knife. and according to at least one witness on the bus he was threatening passengers, preventing people from leaving the bus, ignoring repeated warnings from police, while exposing his private parts to all and sundry. martin was apparently walking home armed with a pack of skittles.

i'm just curious as to why you characterized an unarmed martin as completely culpable in his own demise but dancing for joy when a police officer is charged with killing an armed man.


Zando it should be obvious that the most important factor in comparing yatim with trayvon martin is that martin was in the usa and yatim was in canada. The existence of legally armed citizens changes things. You want to take comments from the trayvon martin thread and apply them to some place else? Does not make any sense.

but my question does not concern that. my question is what is the basis for your blaming an unarmed minor, in b-boy clothing, walking home, committing no crime, for engineering his own demise, while cheerleading for an adult who was dressed in the same b-boy fashion, cussing and threatening people with a knife, repeatedly disobeying police instruction for an extended period of time, waving his dick in his hands in public? in other words..why the anti-black bias

look hard in the mirror and ask yourself if in your desire to see the black diaspora do better (and rightfully so) you are making some unfair judgements.




zando, your question does not make sense to me without appreciating is a different law and a different social expectation at play here. a lawman in toronto should not get the same latitiude as a lawman in the usa. if you raise in the usa, yuh better understand that even though you may not be armed, plenty of others are and doh be surprised if the cops or some rent-a-cop treat you as if you are armed. that is basic common sense. that is common sense backed by empirical evidence as well. the amount of people that get shot in the usa compared to canada just through day to day confrontations - regardless of whether they white or black although definitely heavily skewed towards black on black situations - say you CANNOT pretend the two contexts are the same. yet seem like want to wish it away like that doh make a difference. de evidence there, it does make a difference, even though you seem to want to ignore it.

anyway, someone point out that the cops in manitoba that handled the case of the guy that decapitated the passenger on the greyhound bus did a much better job. they didn't wild out like this fool.


ribbit, the more you dance around the question the greater the logical inconsistencies you reveal. but that is for another discussion.

just answer the question. you made several statements that clearly placed the culpability of his own death solely on an unarmed minor. yet you abdicate an adult brandishing a deadly weapon at multiple people, making lewd gestures, and creating a disturbance in a public space of any responsibility and happily place blame on the backs of the Toronto police force.

so...why is an unarmed minor responsible for his own death, and not as worthy of YOUR consideration while an adult CLEARLY exhibiting, dangerous, lewd, criminal behaviour and complete disregard for the law get a pass from YOU? 

Sacred cows make the best hamburger

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: toronto streetcar shooting
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2013, 08:01:00 AM »
lol, answer the question please. you said trayvon martin's death was his own fault because he was wearing a hoodie. not only was this yuteman wearing a hoodie, he was brandishing a knife. and according to at least one witness on the bus he was threatening passengers, preventing people from leaving the bus, ignoring repeated warnings from police, while exposing his private parts to all and sundry. martin was apparently walking home armed with a pack of skittles.

i'm just curious as to why you characterized an unarmed martin as completely culpable in his own demise but dancing for joy when a police officer is charged with killing an armed man.


Zando it should be obvious that the most important factor in comparing yatim with trayvon martin is that martin was in the usa and yatim was in canada. The existence of legally armed citizens changes things. You want to take comments from the trayvon martin thread and apply them to some place else? Does not make any sense.

but my question does not concern that. my question is what is the basis for your blaming an unarmed minor, in b-boy clothing, walking home, committing no crime, for engineering his own demise, while cheerleading for an adult who was dressed in the same b-boy fashion, cussing and threatening people with a knife, repeatedly disobeying police instruction for an extended period of time, waving his dick in his hands in public? in other words..why the anti-black bias

look hard in the mirror and ask yourself if in your desire to see the black diaspora do better (and rightfully so) you are making some unfair judgements.




zando, your question does not make sense to me without appreciating is a different law and a different social expectation at play here. a lawman in toronto should not get the same latitiude as a lawman in the usa. if you raise in the usa, yuh better understand that even though you may not be armed, plenty of others are and doh be surprised if the cops or some rent-a-cop treat you as if you are armed. that is basic common sense. that is common sense backed by empirical evidence as well. the amount of people that get shot in the usa compared to canada just through day to day confrontations - regardless of whether they white or black although definitely heavily skewed towards black on black situations - say you CANNOT pretend the two contexts are the same. yet seem like want to wish it away like that doh make a difference. de evidence there, it does make a difference, even though you seem to want to ignore it.

anyway, someone point out that the cops in manitoba that handled the case of the guy that decapitated the passenger on the greyhound bus did a much better job. they didn't wild out like this fool.


ribbit, the more you dance around the question the greater the logical inconsistencies you reveal. but that is for another discussion.

just answer the question. you made several statements that clearly placed the culpability of his own death solely on an unarmed minor. yet you abdicate an adult brandishing a deadly weapon at multiple people, making lewd gestures, and creating a disturbance in a public space of any responsibility and happily place blame on the backs of the Toronto police force.

so...why is an unarmed minor responsible for his own death, and not as worthy of YOUR consideration while an adult CLEARLY exhibiting, dangerous, lewd, criminal behaviour and complete disregard for the law get a pass from YOU?  



like i said, have you heard of the second amendment?

superficially, usa is the same as other places but their gun culture is singular. the conventional view is to put on the race-coloured glasses and INTERNALIZE the gun question. this produces a different view than including the gun question as a factor. and frankly, the presence of guns is why this (and trayvon martin) is headline news in the first place.

 

1]; } ?>