March 28, 2024, 07:13:19 AM

Author Topic: Why is it that T&T players except Yorke, fail to play with the bigger clubs?  (Read 14843 times)

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truetrini

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so does John O'Shea?

and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...

so which one ah we players should ah make ah BIG club?

Offline Filho

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Re: Lack of Discipline
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2006, 10:15:18 AM »
We have real talent here in Trinbago but our guys lack discipline
If our guys settle down and concentrate on the football rather than parting we could be big like or even bigger than brazil
[/color]

NOT REALLY. What you fail to realize is that country's like Brazil and Argentina have the same problem with discipline. There are countless players in those countries who would be unbelievable that you will never hear of. We not special in that regard. In the end you have those that with persistance, talent and luck that make it. So the only realistic comparison is to look at the players that do come through and compare them to Brazil's...no comparison. Nothing to do with natural talent...but disciplne would not be enough to make up the difference at all

truetrini

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I want all ah allyuh to take any T&T player on we national team and match dem up to any Brazilian past or present who make de Brazil National Team!

Offline Cantona007

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so does John O'Shea?

and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...

so which one ah we players should ah make ah BIG club?

To give a short answer, if we consider talent alone, comparing players on the list above, we probably could have had some viable candidates, but I don't think it has to do with talent alone. People mention "Marvellous" Marvin Faustin, Marcelle etc., but as far as I am concerned, these players may have  had talen, but other  factors (discipline, attitude and  others) militate against their success No one has a right to make a BIG club; you have to want it badly enough once  you get the chance. Nothing  new  here, but...
To give a succinct answer to your question: no player SHOULD make it to a big club.
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
/* Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald Knuth */

Offline Filho

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so does John O'Shea?

and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...

Allyah really deluded yes. John O' Shea walking on Trinidad side anyday and looking like a general. And doh forget the man is only 24 years old and versatile. He is still the unfinished product. Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented

truetrini

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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My  point exactly.  So if dat is true den  my point is even more valid.  The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.


Offline Cantona007

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so does John O'Shea?

and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...

Allyah really deluded yes. John O' Shea walking on Trinidad side anyday and looking like a general. And doh forget the man is only 24 years old and versatile. He is still the unfinished product. Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented
Yes Filho, but surely you realize that  the actual names (O'Shea, Cygan) aren't that important;  the principle remains the saame though; there are  lesser  players that  play  for so-called big clubs, the queston is: why some and not others. Don't get mired in the minutiae.  :beermug:
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
/* Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald Knuth */

Offline Cantona007

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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My  point exactly.  So if dat is true den  my point is even more valid.  The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.


Yes; but like everything else in life, there is  more  than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have  bitten players in the ass. Talent is one  aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are  others.
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
/* Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald Knuth */

truetrini

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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My  point exactly.  So if dat is true den  my point is even more valid.  The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.


Yes; but like everything else in life, there is  more  than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have  bitten players in the ass. Talent is one  aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are  others.

Name one T&T player who was ever turned down for a work permit when picked up by a BIG club?

Let me help yuh...

NONE!  Ziltch.  zero.

see my point.

what bite dem is dat dey wasnt good enough.

Dat is not hating, we must appreciate we own but do so realistically.

Offline Cantona007

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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My  point exactly.  So if dat is true den  my point is even more valid.  The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.


Yes; but like everything else in life, there is  more  than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have  bitten players in the ass. Talent is one  aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are  others.

Name one T&T player who was ever turned down for a work permit when picked up by a BIG club?

Let me help yuh...

NONE!  Ziltch.  zero.

see my point.

what bite dem is dat dey wasnt good enough.

Dat is not hating, we must appreciate we own but do so realistically.
Cool, I don't think that anyone could agree with your point, I tend to include in my definition of "not good enough" things like  character and desire. Not  to beat  the point, but this is what I was trying  to say about so-called  lesser players succeeding where others fail. More than one solution/answer...

My two roubles.
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
/* Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald Knuth */

truetrini

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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My  point exactly.  So if dat is true den  my point is even more valid.  The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.


Yes; but like everything else in life, there is  more  than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have  bitten players in the ass. Talent is one  aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are  others.

Name one T&T player who was ever turned down for a work permit when picked up by a BIG club?

Let me help yuh...

NONE!  Ziltch.  zero.

see my point.

what bite dem is dat dey wasnt good enough.

Dat is not hating, we must appreciate we own but do so realistically.
Cool, I don't think that anyone could agree with your point, I tend to include in my definition of "not good enough" things like  character and desire. Not  to beat  the point, but this is what I was trying  to say about so-called  lesser players succeeding where others fail. More than one solution/answer...

My two roubles.
I doh see why others will disagree with my point at all. but still spend yuh roubles however yuh want.

i do agree that good enough means skill = desire = hardwork = disclipine!

look at Yorke..he had the skills....but den he lapse off de field and it interfere wioth he on de field performance.

point taken.

still name one other dan he and latas who even get call to such heights and den dey fail because ah lack ah disclipine?

See my point?

Offline Reggaefan

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

Good Point deh! (erm..perhaps I hould prepare for a riot now? :nailbiting:)

truetrini

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

Good Point deh!

anybody say shit?

why de f**k yuh come sliding in?

Haul yuh arse.  dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.

Offline dcs

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If Dwight was turned down for a work permit for Aston Villa what would have happened to his career?

The best chance our players have of being successful in football is to leave here at 16-17(if they good enuff at that point)......I believe that is what those youths we now hearing about in Holland and Spain did.

Offline Reggaefan

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

Good Point deh!

anybody say shit?

why de f**k yuh come sliding in?

Haul yuh arse.  dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.

TrueTrini! You fell for the trap as expected! You too thin-skinned man.Wait, like you dont plan to send me the URL that I've been waiting on for the past week or suh :timeout:

Offline Reggaefan

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

Good Point deh!

anybody say shit?

why de f**k yuh come sliding in?

Haul yuh arse.  dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.


The man that called me Trolle is the biggest Troll on the internet. They even banned him from Bigsoccer.com. And how come he hardly post here?

truetrini

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

Good Point deh!

anybody say shit?

why de f**k yuh come sliding in?

Haul yuh arse.  dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.

TrueTrini! You fell for the trap as expected! You too thin-skinned man.Wait, like you dont plan to send me the URL that I've been waiting on for the past week or suh :timeout:
 again yuh lie!  There was no trap!

You modified yuh post...yuh full ah shit and yuh does do anything tuh belittle T&T.

See yuh forget ah quote yuh..and den yuh went back and add shit.

RF. let em tell yuh something..yuh cyar make it like me....so go look fuh ah bajan bulgger or better yet ah Montego Bay buller and f**k off.

Yuh is ah damn liar!


And I was de first one to call yuh ah damn troll!

truetrini

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RF why yuh come here trying to f**k up we vibes and troll fella?

Why yuh doh find ah sport yuh could participate in..try circle jocking!

get ah group ah yuh yardie frens and form ah circle an jock yuh wood!

steups.

it might have world cup in dat and den yuh could represent Yard.

ent?

Offline Pointman

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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.

Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)

Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)

Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs

Wha Allyuh Think?

Other than Dwight do we have players who could or could have made these big teams? I can't think of any. Besides that our players are competing against a lot of other very skillful, talented, hungry folks.
Trini to de bone; Pointman to de bone.

Offline Reggaefan

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RF why yuh come here trying to f**k up we vibes and troll fella?

Why yuh doh find ah sport yuh could participate in..try circle jocking!

get ah group ah yuh yardie frens and form ah circle an jock yuh wood!

steups.

it might have world cup in dat and den yuh could represent Yard.

ent?

one word: THIN SKINNED! yuh like a old lady going through menopause.  :-[

Offline Reggaefan

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

Good Point deh!

anybody say shit?

why de f**k yuh come sliding in?

Haul yuh arse.  dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.

TrueTrini! You fell for the trap as expected! You too thin-skinned man.Wait, like you dont plan to send me the URL that I've been waiting on for the past week or suh :timeout:
 again yuh lie!  There was no trap!

You modified yuh post...yuh full ah shit and yuh does do anything tuh belittle T&T.

See yuh forget ah quote yuh..and den yuh went back and add shit.

RF. let em tell yuh something..yuh cyar make it like me....so go look fuh ah bajan bulgger or better yet ah Montego Bay buller and f**k off.

Yuh is ah damn liar!


And I was de first one to call yuh ah damn troll!

the post was modified to correct a spelling error! Wait, what wrong with you today TrueTrini? What bothering you today? Why you so darn miserable man? BTW, have you booked your ticket for the family to Germany yet? or have you chnaged your mind?

Offline Pointman

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Clubs still don't have much respect for West indian players ah guess.  Until we make a decent showing in a few WC.  real hard for TT players.
ah think Dwight helped our cause with his exploits at Man U though. but we need to develop more quality players.
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Offline dombasil

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I don't really think that we have the quality. As someone just asked. apart from Latas and Yorke, which other person on present team do you think has the quality to play with a real top team.
And i don't want some people to say Hardest. as has also been said pretty good for a small population base.
 And Rangers is no big team.

Dom Basil would have spanked you for such a stupid comment. Trini's are some of the most talented players we possess the quality. Change yuh name man, yuh have Dom turning in he grave
Name dem present day players. Not men like Deleon and dem.

Offline spideybuff

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Porto is a big club...just because portuguese league is not big right now does not diminish the tradition of the team. And they were big when Latas was there. If Bayer Leverkeusen is considerd a big club, as somebody who listed the g14 decide, then Porto has to be considered one. The main reason though is because big clubs are pressured into buying big name players...so our players have to make a name before they reach there. Latas and Andrews did that in their respective leagues and got picked up by big clubs in those respective leagues. Because they didn't start in England like Dwight, then the big club was relative to the league (Porto and Rangers). So basically, it's all about getting that first break early and then having a few years to adjust and then shine so by the time u r in your prime (27+) your name is already made so you get picked up by a big club then otherwise u become too old.
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Offline UPRISING

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I might be wrong but I get the impression that players at "big clubs" either:

1. come through the "big club's" youth system.

2. get scooped up from a club that is well networked in the same market (league for eg.) as the "big club"...either via scouting, or direct competition........after impressive performances

3. perform extraordinarily well for their "not-as-well-networked" team (outside of the market)in such a capacity so as to attract the attention of a big club.....

I think Trini players therefore depend most heavily on option 3............and because of the lack of strength of the network outside of the "big club" market- (PFL for example)...... to get the attention needed, it would take the sort of performances that none of our players are capable of.

Well said Kicker, very sensible... I think your point equates to PEDIGREE ...players coming up through a quality youth system establish their play and in turn a NAME for themselves .. which sets regions / players apart..

Of the current senior squad, based on what I have seen in the EPL; Jones and Edwards have the POTENTIAL to play Prem Football at one of the middle to bottom  clubs (assuming the tops are L'pool, Chelsea, ManU, Arsenal and Spurs)
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Offline vibetrini

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I would add Whitley to the list of current players wit d ability to possibly play premership futbol. His age might be the only downside as far as teams see it. What i would really like to see is a trini playing in serie A... i think that go be real scene... i remember Juventus was scouting Yorke at a time dey.



Offline Cantona007

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RF why yuh come here trying to f**k up we vibes and troll fella?

Why yuh doh find ah sport yuh could participate in..try circle jocking!

get ah group ah yuh yardie frens and form ah circle an jock yuh wood!

steups.

it might have world cup in dat and den yuh could represent Yard.

ent?
anyway... back to the  regularly scheduled program...  :) ;D
ignore RF, TT... trust  me, doh  get a  heart attack

bless
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
/* Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald Knuth */

Offline Filho

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so does John O'Shea?

and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...

Allyah really deluded yes. John O' Shea walking on Trinidad side anyday and looking like a general. And doh forget the man is only 24 years old and versatile. He is still the unfinished product. Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented
Yes Filho, but surely you realize that  the actual names (O'Shea, Cygan) aren't that important;  the principle remains the saame though; there are  lesser  players that  play  for so-called big clubs, the queston is: why some and not others. Don't get mired in the minutiae.  :beermug:

Breds...I used there names to make a point because they were mentioned earlier, but my reasoning was not based on just thosee 3 players. you did read my post right...here...look again at the end

Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented

nobody getting caught up in the small things...but maybe if you did...you might have understood my point  :beermug:

Offline chunk-a-loonks

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Fellas, wanted to post ealier but just didn't get a chance.

About five years ago, I sat down with Cyrile Regis (former WBA, Aston Villa and England) while he was passing thru to Grenada. He played with Dwight while he was as Villa.
He said that everywhere he went in Trinidad everyone pointed out to him that Russell was a much better player that Dwight.

When I asked him his thoughts on that, he said that he had never seen Russell play, however, he said that it didn't underscore what Dwight had achieved in England.

The first thing Dwight had to do was to adapt to the playing conditions in England and to the fast-paced style of play. This didn't happen overnight and in fact it took a couple of years. Cyrile said that it was really no surprise Dwight excelled because he worked very, very hard on his fitness, his skills and his overall game. He was one of the more disciplined and dedicated youngsters on the field. Dwight was also fortunate that he was picked up at a very early age is his playing career to pursue professional football.

This is what I believe puts our players at a dis-advantage when they move to England and other countries. Pound for pound, we have naturally talented players that I believe may be better than most of the players in England. But they lack discipline, a hard work ethic and that little technical edge to take them over the top.

It also is a case of being in the right place at the right time.

It is a shame that we have very talented local footballers like Whitley who after playing in the WC should be picked up by an overseas club, but at age 27, how much can he really develop and show his class in a major foreign league.

Laters

Offline RGarcia

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before the world cup guys were getting looks because of Dwight and Latas but now tht we made the world cup we get more exposure to the larger football audience so expect us to be getting more players with trials at ah younger  age maybe in the late teens early twenties and all that dose not always have to be determined by how well we do on the far we go on the world stage but how well we play besides wins and losses.
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