August 08, 2020, 12:24:56 PM

Author Topic: Why is it that T&T players except Yorke, fail to play with the bigger clubs?  (Read 10389 times)

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Offline ffreturns

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vibetrini you talking alot of rubbish manchester united coulld never be in the same class as real madrid ,barcilona,ac millan,juventis both fc porto and rangers are big name clubs and is well respected around the world even newcastle could be put in that boat and to lesser extent the grasshoppers.

Offline FF

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vibetrini you talking alot of rubbish manchester united coulld never be in the same class as real madrid ,barcilona,ac millan,juventis both fc porto and rangers are big name clubs and is well respected around the world even newcastle could be put in that boat and to lesser extent the grasshoppers.


aye aye..... I ent no fan of Man BOO but you saying they is not de class of Madrid, Barcelona etc etc but still wanna put Rangers Porto and Grasshoppers

You talkin rubbish...... Vibetrini put high criteria for that elite list.... I say Porto could scrape in to that list... and now everybody wanna open up de criteria and add all kinda fly by night club... just to say this one and dat one play for a top top top of de line club.....

Allyuh talk serious nah man.... what Rangers, Newcastle, and all these other clubs ever win.... at least Ranger does regularly win de scottish prem... Newcastle eh win ah trophy since high pants, leather ball and black and white TV.... get serious!
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Offline Filho

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This conversation is a waste of time if we are only considering teams like ManU, AC milan and Barcelona etc.. as BIG clubs. For argument's sake, let's limit the discussion to European teams There are only a dozen or so countries that have meaningful numbers of citizens (past and present) in these so-called BIG clubs. When you think of citizens of countries outside where these clubs are based, then it is only a handful. You are a top class professional if you are playing regularly for any team that is consistantly in the top flight of one of the major European leagues - Spain, Italy, Germany, England. Then add the top teams in other leagues such as Lyon, PSG, Marseille (France), Porto, Benfica and Sporting (Portugal), Ajax, Feyenord, PSV (Holland), Galatasaray, Fenerbace (Turkey) Rangers, Celtic (Scotland), Olimpiakos, Panathanaikos (Greece)..etc. If you've spent and time in Europe you will realize that these are all huge teams and the level of football and the week-in-week out pressure to succeed doemsticallya nd n Europe is unreal...

At their peaks, Dog, Shaka, Latapy & Yorke were/are all starters for teams pushing for honors in some of the top leagues in Europe as well as in the UEFA Cup and Champions' league. They should not be part of this discussion because they have essentially made it to the top of professional football. The fact is they are in the vast minority of professional footballers.

Now..to answer the question, in order of importance (in my opinion):

1) lack of quality
2) lack of discipline and drive
3) poor management/agents
4) work permit issues
5) lack of marketability/ exposure - hmm..I could get a Brazilian or a Trinidadian of the same talent for the same money ...who you think winning that battle...
6) discipline and drive
5) bias - the caribbean player has to fight the stereotype that he is skilful but lazy. As opposed to say an African player who is thought of as skilful but hungry
« Last Edit: January 05, 2006, 04:28:58 PM by Filho »

Offline dombasil

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Filho said it all. Talk done

Offline SOBRIQUET

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well said filho, yuh mash-up any further discussions..
...with Blacksmith, Dogfoot, Jurawan and dem

Offline ZionYouth

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goals... yuh have to score golas in de big leagues..

Offline Jefferz

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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.

Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)

Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)

Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs

Wha Allyuh Think?



Porto could get een with ah umph.... They win Champions league last year man!!... they also win de old European Cup in 1988......

So ok beside Yorke and Latapy.... yes quality is de answer... have ah lil luck in it too....

but when yuh tell yuhself... 1.3 MM population.... we eh doing too bad yuh know

Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell
since ah born or at least circa Copa Caribe

Offline Baygo Boy

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A few seasons ago an A-League coach had a choice between a Trinbagonian striker, and a kid out of a  premiership team's system. Although he acknowledged that our striker was the better during the trial, he chose the English kid - his reason was that he was familiar with the training the English kid got, along with his preps etc, but was not sure what our player would bring to the team apart from ability. T&T is not considered by many football experts to be a "true" footballing nation - sad as it may seem.

Offline kicker

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Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell

Did what well at Porto ?
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Offline dcs

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Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell

Did what well at Porto ?

I believe it was Academica he played with Latas.
Just look it up.
His best season goals wise was with Falguieras and medals wise was with Boavista.
http://www.socawarriors.net/past_&_retired_TT_players.htm

Offline kicker

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Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell

Did what well at Porto ?

I believe it was Academica he played with Latas.
Just look it up.
His best season goals wise was with Falguieras and medals wise was with Boavista.
http://www.socawarriors.net/past_&_retired_TT_players.htm

yeah he played at Academica with Latas.....

I eh know how Jeff come up wid Leo at Porto.....good imagination I guess.
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Offline Peong

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I doh mind if our players not at big clubs, but at least get into the big leagues.  And stay there.

truetrini

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

Offline SOBRIQUET

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!

well said truetrini! ever since i small trinis have dis footballin mentality that "trinidad have world class ballers." What a myth! Other than Dwight Yorke we haven't produced anything substantial to talk about. FOOTBALL MINNOWS is what we are. Ask any regular avid football fan OUTSIDE OF TRINIDAD who Russell Latapy is; and watch them twist up dey face in utter confusion. The best we could do is chill we bill, learn as much as we can from Beenie and hope we can maybe produce something in the future. TTFF surely aint go be the ones helping we yutes develop! So we just hadda sit back and wait for another naturally gifted player of yorke calibre to be born. Until then, stop the "world class player" RUM TALK and wake up. We is the Minnows of this shit called world football....
...with Blacksmith, Dogfoot, Jurawan and dem

Offline ANC2

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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.

Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)

Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)

Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs

Wha Allyuh Think?



Porto could get een with ah umph.... They win Champions league last year man!!... they also win de old European Cup in 1988......

So ok beside Yorke and Latapy.... yes quality is de answer... have ah lil luck in it too....

but when yuh tell yuhself... 1.3 MM population.... we eh doing too bad yuh know

I say so too.
Porto and Rangers are world-class teams that will easily rank with Man U and Madrid, and de way Madrid doing these days yuh might want to reconsider them. :beermug:


Boss you mad Rangers ranking with Madrid and ManU??? What Rangers ever win? This is the first year Rangers make it into the next rounds of CL.

Offline ironman

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People there is something else to consider,15 years a back a manager generally did not see Trinidad as a place to buy a player,just like 25 years ago Ghanaians were playing in the lower leagues of Germany,France etc much like our players in Britain now,look at African players on the whole today!they play for the big clubs but it took time,we like to walk before we creep!We will have a flow of players playing for bigger clubs but when we have more local players exposed to set say like Jabloteh and we have more local based getting capped things will change.Whitely and Jones anre to examples of signs of an improvement in player quality.
tell them it was me

truetrini

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People there is something else to consider,15 years a back a manager generally did not see Trinidad as a place to buy a player,just like 25 years ago Ghanaians were playing in the lower leagues of Germany,France etc much like our players in Britain now,look at African players on the whole today!they play for the big clubs but it took time,we like to walk before we creep!We will have a flow of players playing for bigger clubs but when we have more local players exposed to set say like Jabloteh and we have more local based getting capped things will change.Whitely and Jones anre to examples of signs of an improvement in player quality.

Breds the fact is we players were not good enough!  Plain and simple.  Most of our players in the UK struggle to start on their teams on a regular basis.  and then remember they are cheaply bought "filler" players. 

We don't do badly for a small country wit a small talent pool.

So let us enjoy our moment in the sun, staying grounded and hoing for continued success.

We should have been able to produce better players but the lack of interest by the TTFF in developing the standard of the game in T&T is to blame for that!

Look at Surinam and Guadaloupe and Martinique and the amount of good players that they farm out to France....!  Soild youth programs.

Offline ironman

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So if they are not good enough the clubs pay them salaries still even to just get cobo sweat because of their looks?We are too simplistic at times to say "dey ent good" sounds pretty daft to me.I remember in athletics when a US coach would never dream of giving an athlete ffrom the Caribbean a throwing scholarship,but now we see Jamaican,Trini ,Grenadian and Bahamian athletes on throwing schols not to big throwing programmes but smaller ones then bam after years Candice Scott leave Barataria and went to Florida Gators....big time throwing set up, why better training at youth levels and time eroding bias and mental blocks of these foreign coaches.
  I remember when T&T defenders never got contracts,so according to you truetrini Brian Williams,Dexter Francis and Clayton Morris were not good enough,then Rougier went to Raith then Dog went on trial at Motherwell then ended up signing for Raith also now look at our back line?eventually one of our youth defenders will go directly to a bigger club as connections are made with local clubs.
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truetrini

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So if they are not good enough the clubs pay them salaries still even to just get cobo sweat because of their looks?We are too simplistic at times to say "dey ent good" sounds pretty daft to me.I remember in athletics when a US coach would never dream of giving an athlete ffrom the Caribbean a throwing scholarship,but now we see Jamaican,Trini ,Grenadian and Bahamian athletes on throwing schols not to big throwing programmes but smaller ones then bam after years Candice Scott leave Barataria and went to Florida Gators....big time throwing set up, why better training at youth levels and time eroding bias and mental blocks of these foreign coaches.
  I remember when T&T defenders never got contracts,so according to you truetrini Brian Williams,Dexter Francis and Clayton Morris were not good enough,then Rougier went to Raith then Dog went on trial at Motherwell then ended up signing for Raith also now look at our back line?eventually one of our youth defenders will go directly to a bigger club as connections are made with local clubs.

Let em tell you what is daft!  Your lack of comprehension!

The question is why our players doh get to play at BIGGER CLUBS!
Raith could hardly beat ah PFL side..if dey can at all!

Nad yes De, fellas could not play at NO Man U or Real Madrid etc!

NONE at dem especially pedestrian Brian Williams!

AND FUH YUH INFO athletes from T&T getting scholarships top de States fuh over 25 years!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 08:34:52 AM by truetrini »

Offline ironman

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truetrini go in peace bredda,lawd fadda!
tell them it was me

truetrini

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truetrini go in peace bredda,lawd fadda!

at least yuh humble.  LOL ;)

Offline Cantona007

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2 words-  work permits
Yes (especially as  applies to England), but also some players just don't have the right attitude (as defined by the managers/organizations they are working  under). I remember  when Yorke first joined Villa and was riding bench behind Dean Saunders (a *much* lesser player), the coach was talking about Yorke's attitude and desire in training. Yorke made  the adjustment and proved him wrong, and well... we know the end of that story.
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Offline Cantona007

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Newcastle is not a huge club like manboo, but then again not many are. I would have considered Newcastle a relatively big club with decent success before Souness days. I think they are as good as Rangers.
If you agree then add Neil Shaka Hislop to that list
You are right; Newcastle is not as big as  the Mighty Reds, but a little perspective; Newcastle is a big club... in Geordie Land. Ask yourself, what trophies have Newcaastle actually won, and how often (even before Souey). They may be as  good as Rangers in terms of ability (*maybe*) but not where  it actually counts... winners medals.
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
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Offline Pasdah Beatz

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Lack of Discipline
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2006, 10:00:20 AM »
We have real talent here in Trinbago but our guys lack discipline
If our guys settle down and concentrate on the football rather than parting we could be big like or even bigger than brazil
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Offline Pasdah Beatz

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I don't really think that we have the quality. As someone just asked. apart from Latas and Yorke, which other person on present team do you think has the quality to play with a real top team.
And i don't want some people to say Hardest. as has also been said pretty good for a small population base.
 And Rangers is no big team.

Dom Basil would have spanked you for such a stupid comment. Trini's are some of the most talented players we possess the quality. Change yuh name man, yuh have Dom turning in he grave

Offline Cantona007

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
yes... but Pascal Cygan has a contract  :devil:  :rotfl:
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
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truetrini

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so does John O'Shea?

and yuh point is?

Offline Filho

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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Ask any regular avid football fan OUTSIDE OF TRINIDAD who Russell Latapy is; and watch them twist up dey face in utter confusion....

I do NOT completely disagree with the point you trying to make, but your example kinda off partner. Latas may not be anywhere as popular as Yorke worldwide.....but de man is arguably more talented and by playing for Porto (won 2 league titles...plus a Cup title with Boavista) and Rangers, also made good use of his talent and he is better known than you give him credit for. I went business school with a man from Lisbon. His side was benfica...when he realize I was a Trini he as me if I know Latapy. He say Latas was real big in Portugal in his Porto days and as a Benfica man dey had to give him pong...but dey respek his ability

latas is also known in the UK...particularly Scotland. So much so, the man was even nominated for World Player of the year in 2001 by the Scottish rep

and he is very well known in our Concacaf region..even by the Yanks who old enough to rememeber Nov 19. I went on BigSoccer North America zone and was part of a debate aboput wh the best midfielder was in Concacaf over the past few decades and it was doing to Latas and Claudio Reyna. Imagine American posters was dissing otther Americans who consider reyna better than Latas...

truetrini

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yeah Latas is ah big baller.

But I maintain dat apart from dem fellas, we players mediocre and cyar make de grade.

all kinda old talk about dicslipine etc...doh make sense.

Is lack ah skill at de highest level,,simple.

By de way. I did not say Latas wasnt ah big player dat was Sobriquet.

Offline Cantona007

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so does John O'Shea?

and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
/* Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald Knuth */