Pele, Maradona or Ronaldinho?

[pioneertrini]

Maradonna was the better footballer, Pele couldnt play nowadays while maradonna could, just pele was more succesful

[Filho]

Good points all. I will take the PSG thing and the Maradona @Barca as being even, although my original point was that players like Maradona and Pele don't get outshone by TWO teammates, even if they are the junior partner at one point in a dynamic duo. Pele was injured early in 62 and was injuured again for 66, thus he didn't have a chance to shine. He started playing after the senior striker got injured in 58 and started scoring once he got his chance, thus only making an impact at the semis. In that World Cup, Garrincha was Brazil's star(another person who got a chance because somebody got injured) but he was the only person to get more ranks that Pele. And in 70 he was going a goal a game until the final when his strike partner (jairzinho) eventually got that accolade cause Pele was setting up goals instead as the elder statesman. But..he was still one of the main players in that tourney as well. For other players to outshine him is basically perception because at that point they knew what he had to offer and the others were new since european teams were not as adept at scouting overseas as they are now.
But at the crux of the matter...we both agree that it is too soon for Ronaldinho to be called in the same breath as Pele and Maradona, correct?

I hear yah. His career is not over and it can still go in many directions...so the story of Ronaldinho isn't over. But in terms of actual abiliity...i don't know if it is too early. Even in terms of accolades and acheivements..he is way ahead of where Maradona was at his age (although..accolades is  a kinda lame way to compare players). I also think Ronaldinho was by far the best player for Brazil in the 2002 final against Germany. I doh know how people forget the hattrick of one on ones he set up for Ronaldo in the 1st half alone...all missed. Germany didn't have an answer. And he ran the quarter-final against England.....dat game should be remembered as the game Roaldinho really broke out

[trinidre]

wellah love ronaldinho and he's meh favourite player in the game today and the man eh fail at PSG why yuh think everybody wanted to buy him.....maradona was great but ah have to go with pele as the greatest and if alyuh putting ronaldihno in that poll ah think alyuh coulda put zidane they too 

[pioneertrini]

well then ya could put ronaldo too, hes the biggest player of this era so far. no other player cause di hype and talk like him and he was amazin at psv inter for a lil barca at times real and was the first striker to score more than 6 goals in ah world cup for a long while now.

[Arimaman]

FF:

The question was, who is was the best player in their prime, not who was the better goal scorer.  Therefore, it doesn't matter that Maradonna scored few goals with his right foot.  The key was that he was more creative player (that I have seen).  Pele was a scorer, bar none.  Better overall player, simply Diego.

[pioneertrini]

FF:

The question was, who is was the best player in their prime, not who was the better goal scorer.  Therefore, it doesn't matter that Maradonna scored few goals with his right foot.  The key was that he was more creative player (that I have seen).  Pele was a scorer, bar none.  Better overall player, simply Diego.

yep 100%

[Filho]

FF:

The question was, who is was the best player in their prime, not who was the better goal scorer.  Therefore, it doesn't matter that Maradonna scored few goals with his right foot.  The key was that he was more creative player (that I have seen).  Pele was a scorer, bar none.  Better overall player, simply Diego.

yep 100%

based on what criteria?....

[Arimaman]

Based on two pieces of factual criteria:

1. Pele is the all time leading goalscorer in football
2. I have seen 100 more games of Maradonna than Pele.  From what I have seen, Maradonna was a more creative player.  He carried Argentina to a world cup on his back.

That is my criteria...

[Redbelt]

PELE

While Maradona was a good player, he was not a good sportsman with all his drug problems

Ronaldinhio is too young to be a legend. But he will be.

[Arimaman]

Redbelt:

Answer the question nah?

What does Maradonna's off the field indiscretions have to do with his on field performance and his status as the greatest "player" ever?

[ZionYouth]

pele has been doin it since he was sixteen years old,how old was maradona when he start ply'in for his country?

[pioneertrini]

allyuh like u never seen pele and maradonna play, as a football player maradonna was way better touch vision strength creativity also had a good finish, maradonna was small but even when they triple mark di man he would still come out wid the ball, drugs sportsmanship n ting dont count in the discussion.

[Jefferz]

Redbelt:

Answer the question nah?

What does Maradonna's off the field indiscretions have to do with his on field performance and his status as the greatest "player" ever?

yea airman your right bout his indiscretions of the feild playing no part.

although it does anger me to know it.

The simple fact his Pele was a goal scoring machine.

If you think football you think Pele first and foremost.

[Filho]

Based on two pieces of factual criteria:

1. Pele is the all time leading goalscorer in football
2. I have seen 100 more games of Maradonna than Pele.  From what I have seen, Maradonna was a more creative player.  He carried Argentina to a world cup on his back.

That is my criteria...

whey....no need to get defensive. I was curious as to what criteria you used  to say Diego was 'simply better'. Was it technique, decision making, speed, versatility...etc....that's all. So now I see you value  Maradona's creativity over Pele's goalscoring. cool ting...except you really don't know if  or how much more creative Maradona was, cause you never watched Pele play consistantly. Anyhow...that is the case with most of us...I am just amazed at how few people pose their decision is an opinion....and how many pose it as fact

[Filho]

allyuh like u never seen pele and maradonna play

have you seen Pele play...and I don't mean highlights? simple question....i not doubting that Diego may ahve been the better player.
But I have to admit, I think you getting carried away when you say Maradoa had 'way better touch'. Pele's technique, from all accounts, was pretty much 'flawless' by footballing stadards..and is balance, strength and dribbling were superb. Even if Maradona was better at these things...i doubt he was way better at any of them.

[pioneertrini]

i meant way better as a player, forgot to put a comma there. the way i mean is like pele is from an old era when football was at a lower standard, i know its about who was better in there prime, i still think maradonna. like i said could pele in his prime play at the top level now? and could maradonna in his prime play now? and who would be better. because if u dont look at it like that then people always idolise the old fellas in every sport. but i guess its like people will say whos better ronaldo or zidane. 2 totally different players. anyway u guys probly better to judge than me ive seen a few of peles matches and alot of maradonnas. i grew up watching him so hes from my era while my dad would have watched pele

[College]

Pioneer, just a suggestion, ask you dad, or some of the older folks about Pele, maybe they would help reshape your opinion on ths topic..

[Filho]

the way i mean is like pele is from an old era when football was at a lower standard....

Fair enough boss. Every body will look at it their own way and form their own  opinion. However, I don't think it is fair to guess whether Pele coud play in this era. Most likely he could. His training, diet, ideaology etc..would be different. But that introduces too many 'what ifs'...such as, if Maradona was born at the same time as Pele, would he be the same player as he was in eighties? I would guess no. Players are a product of their eras. If you put Landon Donavon in a time machine to Pele's era he would dominate due to his superior stamina and speed...but noone ever would compare  the two..so maybe not a valuable criteria. Maybe a better comparison is how much they stood out amongst their peers, how innovative they were, how consisstant they were and how much they raised the standard of the game as a whole.

I think maradona stood out more amongst his peers.

Can't say who was more innovative. I think Pele made the bicycle famous (without necessarily inventing it) while Maradona redefined the direct-free kick (without neceessarily inventing it)

Pele beats Maradona hands down for consistancy...in my opinion. He did his thing at a high level for much longer. So yes, Maradona's problems with drugs does influence how great he was to me, to answer an earlier question. It doesn't taint my view of how talented he was...but it is clear here that noone is judgeing solely on talent

Raising the standard of the game...dunno.

In the end, you cyah go wrong with either

[pioneertrini]

yeh true football every decade becomes a better standard so i tink u can only say who the best of each era/decade and not best ever. people argued about it for years and will in years to come.

[Pointman]

  DIEGO...........ARMANDO.......MARADONA   

 

[Pointman]

THE ONE THING THAT WILL SQUACH ALL THIS OLE TALK BOUT WHO IS BETTER IS STATS.

LET EACH CANDIDATE PUT FORTH THEIR RESPECTIVE STATS SO WE MAY COMPARE.

WHO HAVE THE MOST CHAMPIONSHIPS TITLES

THE MOST WC WINS

THE MOST GOALS

# OF  HATRICKS IN A GAMES

# OF TIMES SCORES 2,3,4 GOALS IN A GAME

# OF TIMES SCORED WITH HEAD, RIGHT FOOT, LEFT FOOT(AWRIGHT WE GO GEH MARADONA DAT ONE)

ETC,ETC,ETC

[Filho]

THE ONE THING THAT WILL SQUACH ALL THIS OLE TALK BOUT WHO IS BETTER IS STATS.

LET EACH CANDIDATE PUT FORTH THEIR RESPECTIVE STATS SO WE MAY COMPARE.

WHO HAVE THE MOST CHAMPIONSHIPS TITLES

THE MOST WC WINS

THE MOST GOALS

# OF HATRICKS IN A GAMES

# OF TIMES SCORES 2,3,4 GOALS IN A GAME

# OF TIMES SCORED WITH HEAD, RIGHT FOOT, LEFT FOOT(AWRIGHT WE GO GEH MARADONA DAT ONE)

ETC,ETC,ETC

nuttin' could squash da debate. besides...i thought you like Diego...he will lose the stats game bad 
stats doh lie...but they never tell the whole truth anyway...ask the great defenders

peace

[Pointman]

THE ONE THING THAT WILL SQUACH ALL THIS OLE TALK BOUT WHO IS BETTER IS STATS.

LET EACH CANDIDATE PUT FORTH THEIR RESPECTIVE STATS SO WE MAY COMPARE.

WHO HAVE THE MOST CHAMPIONSHIPS TITLES

THE MOST WC WINS

THE MOST GOALS

# OF HATRICKS IN A GAMES

# OF TIMES SCORES 2,3,4 GOALS IN A GAME

# OF TIMES SCORED WITH HEAD, RIGHT FOOT, LEFT FOOT(AWRIGHT WE GO GEH MARADONA DAT ONE)

ETC,ETC,ETC

nuttin' could squash da debate. besides...i thought you like Diego...he will lose the stats game bad 
stats doh lie...but they never tell the whole truth anyway...ask the great defenders

peace

Filho, you're right nothing will end this debate. There are so many factors influencing the debate, politics, nationalism, maybe money(who knows). I am a huge Pele fan...nothing against Diego...they were both phenoms.. Most of us, even the older heads, have only seen Pele play in the WC and perhaps at Cosmos. The people who really need to weigh in on the discussion are the Brazilian fans who saw Pele IN HIS PRIME playing club football, which is where his lore developed. What i wouldn't give to be able to go back in time to watch Pele playing at Santos. That must have been quite a sight.

[Pointman]

stats doh lie...but they never tell the whole truth anyway...ask the great defenders

peace

I forgot to address this paart of your post, anyway just before the start of the WC finals between Italy and Brazil back in '70. The Italian central defender(name escapes me), the main man in their defence was in the locker room psychicing up himself for the game and he kept saying to himself over and over "Pele is only a man, Pele is only a man, He is only a man". At the end of the game, the Italian defender went back to the locker room and said to himself "I was wrong" 

Pele was pure football diety.

[FF]

Arimaman...

My question wasnt about who was the greater goalscorer or who was more creative...

I trying to establish who was de more complete player! 

answer dat nah

[Jefferz]

Maaaaaaaaraaaaaaaadoooonaaaaaaa!


lypo suction by-pass crack addicts make the beeeeeeeest footballers

or should i say.


los adicto a la grieta de puente de la succión del lypo hacen los footballers ma's beeeeeeeest


and they make the corniest football shows too!

[spideybuff]

I trying to establish who was de more complete player! 

Neither of them used to tackle so I eh know who was a complete player..but if u use an american system of 2 points for a goal and 1 for an assist, I bet you Pele win by a mile.
I just glad to see the Ronaldinho part of the argument disappear at least...

[Redbelt]

Redbelt:

Answer the question nah?

What does Maradonna's off the field indiscretions have to do with his on field performance and his status as the greatest "player" ever?

Because I t hink a sportsman is more than mere skills
Its also attitude, respect for others, acceptance of defeat, acting like a role model & so on, things we call "sportmanship".
however, if you will compare purely skill then that is a different matter.