April 20, 2024, 09:17:57 AM

Poll

Who is your favorite UEFA Champions League Team

PSV Eindhoven
2 (11.1%)
Chelsea
7 (38.9%)
AC Milan
2 (11.1%)
Liverpool
5 (27.8%)
Manchester City
0 (0%)
FC Porto
0 (0%)
Roma
0 (0%)
Bayern Munich
0 (0%)
Juventus
0 (0%)
Borussia Dortmund
0 (0%)
PSG
1 (5.6%)
Manchester United
1 (5.6%)
Ajax
0 (0%)
Real Madrid
0 (0%)
Lyon
0 (0%)
Barcelona
0 (0%)
Atletico Madrid
0 (0%)
Napoli
0 (0%)
Schalke
0 (0%)
Inter Milan
0 (0%)
Galatasaray
0 (0%)
CSKA Moscow
0 (0%)
Benfica
0 (0%)
Tottenham
0 (0%)
Shakhtar Donetsk
0 (0%)
Valencia
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Author Topic: UEFA Champions League Thread  (Read 300677 times)

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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #360 on: February 17, 2011, 01:44:32 PM »
I am in no way saying that arsenal sat back and outright defended whole game, but they made sure they always had numbers in the back to prepare for Barca.     

But when you use the expression "park the bus" it comes across like you are.

....and it WILL "come across" that way if you choose to ignore the fact that I used it in quotations.  I was never trying to say that that is all arsenal did.   


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Offline dwn

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #361 on: February 17, 2011, 02:02:16 PM »
I think Barcelona are still clear enough favorites to advance.

Don't agree.  I think it's almost dead even -might even give Arsenal the edge because they drew first blood.  If Arsenal can score at Camp Nou, (which they even did last year), they are fully in the driver's seat 

yesterday's first half is the reason i say Barcelona are still favorites. if messi had scored, or if that goal wasn't disallowed, the game would have been over. that's not to say that arsenal didn't have chances, but they were a bit lucky to still be in the game at half time.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 02:05:28 PM by dwn »

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #362 on: February 17, 2011, 02:07:53 PM »
I think Barcelona are still clear enough favorites to advance.

Don't agree.  I think it's almost dead even -might even give Arsenal the edge because they drew first blood.  If Arsenal can score at Camp Nou, (which they even did last year), they are fully in the driver's seat 

yesterday's first half is the reason i say Barcelona are still favorites. if messi had scored, or if that goal wasn't disallowed, the game would have been over. that's not to say that arsenal didn't have chances, but they were a bit lucky. on most other days messi was scoring that, and i don't see how that was offside.

...best of my rememberance I think the disallowed goal was a legit call...but you are right, don't expext Messi to miss them kinda chances too often and y'all better hope that Barca don't score first either.


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Offline Disgruntled_Trini

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #363 on: February 17, 2011, 02:16:59 PM »

...best of my rememberance I think the disallowed goal was a legit call...but you are right, don't expext Messi to miss them kinda chances too often and y'all better hope that Barca don't score first either.


see my usual postmortem post a few pages back and watch the youtube vid.


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Offline kicker

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #364 on: February 17, 2011, 02:27:04 PM »
Yeah Arse dodge a few bullets- the Messi goal was not offside... but dem bullets done get dodge - Arse in pole position until further notice. 
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Offline Jayerson

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #365 on: February 17, 2011, 02:40:17 PM »
Yeah Arse dodge a few bullets- the Messi goal was not offside... but dem bullets done get dodge - Arse in pole position until further notice. 


Based on the new rule I think the goal was indeed offside, in the second sequence of the play, he was offside At least that's what the Chelsea mena and Barca men watching with me all agreed on. Lol. The video link is no longer available, so I can't review.

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #366 on: February 17, 2011, 02:43:12 PM »

...best of my rememberance I think the disallowed goal was a legit call...but you are right, don't expext Messi to miss them kinda chances too often and y'all better hope that Barca don't score first either.


see my usual postmortem post a few pages back and watch the youtube vid.

I eh get to see it but I had recalled accepting the broadcast evaluation while watchin' de game....small ting.  arsenal still gettin' wax in Barcelona.......pole position or not.


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Offline Bakes

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #367 on: February 17, 2011, 02:53:06 PM »
Yeah Arse dodge a few bullets- the Messi goal was not offside... but dem bullets done get dodge - Arse in pole position until further notice. 


Come on man kicker...that was clear offside.  Messi collect that ball and only the keeper was between him and the endline.

Offline kicker

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #368 on: February 17, 2011, 02:56:21 PM »

I eh get to see it but I had recalled accepting the broadcast evaluation while watchin' de game....small ting.  arsenal still gettin' wax in Barcelona.......pole position or not.


Arsenal fans are very cautious about the upper hand they have going into the next game....and I suppose for good reason....plus it's always easier being the underdog.  

As a RM fan, no matter how good Barca is, no matter how much I respect them, and no matter how much breathless cutarse we get in recent years I always want a shot at the Blaugrana... My season revolves around that match up....so if I back Barca in the return is primarily because I want Madrid to get a chance at taking them down....of course we hadda shake that Monkey O.Lyon off our back first lol... (admittedly nervous about that game) ;D
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Offline kicker

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #369 on: February 17, 2011, 02:58:03 PM »

Come on man kicker...that was clear offside.  Messi collect that ball and only the keeper was between him and the endline.

Watch the replay good...when the pass was made (not when he collected the ball) he was not off...It was not even as close as the goal that stood.

That's what I remember watching it over... and alot seem to agree... but wateva....

 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 03:00:03 PM by kicker »
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Offline Bakes

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #370 on: February 17, 2011, 03:03:35 PM »

Come on man kicker...that was clear offside.  Messi collect that ball and only the keeper was between him and the endline.

Watch the replay good...when the pass was made (not when he collected the ball) he was not off...It was not even as close as the goal that stood.

That's what I remember watching it over... and alot seem to agree... but wateva....

 

I was watching that link that get pull up to this morning...  ball came square to him and seemed beyond a doubt that there was a triangle between him, Villa and the keeper.  Closest defender was a step behind him.  Tried looking but can't find another vid of the disallowed goal.  But as yuh say, minus visual evidence we go have to leave it as is.

Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #371 on: February 17, 2011, 03:21:05 PM »

I eh get to see it but I had recalled accepting the broadcast evaluation while watchin' de game....small ting.  arsenal still gettin' wax in Barcelona.......pole position or not.


Arsenal fans are very cautious about the upper hand they have going into the next game....and I suppose for good reason....plus it's always easier being the underdog.  

As a RM fan, no matter how good Barca is, no matter how much I respect them, and no matter how much breathless cutarse we get in recent years I always want a shot at the Blaugrana... My season revolves around that match up....so if I back Barca in the return is primarily because I want Madrid to get a chance at taking them down....of course we hadda shake that Monkey O.Lyon off our back first lol... (admittedly nervous about that game) ;D

Yeah, because a 2-1 lead is by no means safe at all.  arsenal's CL Final was Tuesday.  They eh go be able to hold up nor will Barca (or Messi) be as wasteful two straight games against this same team. (and between song, clichy and eboue, one ah dem BONG to f**k up!)   As far as RM...I really don't see Lyon breakin' that curse that these French teams does have in the CL.....not against this Real side.......besides, as much as ah hate metronaldo, ah still rather see RM walk away wit the trophy than any of the other english teams.


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Offline elan

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #372 on: February 17, 2011, 03:33:02 PM »
Yeah Arse dodge a few bullets- the Messi goal was not offside... but dem bullets done get dodge - Arse in pole position until further notice. 


Come on man kicker...that was clear offside.  Messi collect that ball and only the keeper was between him and the endline.

Messi never got ahead of the ball. He initially played the ball forward and was onside when the ball passed the last defender, therefore, after that sequence the ball is used to judge the offside. Not the defender.


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Offline Bakes

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #373 on: February 17, 2011, 04:03:14 PM »
Yeah Arse dodge a few bullets- the Messi goal was not offside... but dem bullets done get dodge - Arse in pole position until further notice. 


Come on man kicker...that was clear offside.  Messi collect that ball and only the keeper was between him and the endline.

Messi never got ahead of the ball. He initially played the ball forward and was onside when the ball passed the last defender, therefore, after that sequence the ball is used to judge the offside. Not the defender.




I really not following yuh dey nah... sorry.  Too bad the link wasn't still up.

Offline Bitter

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #374 on: February 17, 2011, 05:32:45 PM »
De Russians always have highlights.

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Offline Peong

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #375 on: February 17, 2011, 07:48:32 PM »
Yeah Arse dodge a few bullets- the Messi goal was not offside... but dem bullets done get dodge - Arse in pole position until further notice. 


Come on man kicker...that was clear offside.  Messi collect that ball and only the keeper was between him and the endline.

Messi never got ahead of the ball. He initially played the ball forward and was onside when the ball passed the last defender, therefore, after that sequence the ball is used to judge the offside. Not the defender.




I really not following yuh dey nah... sorry.  Too bad the link wasn't still up.

If yuh level or behind the ball, the two defender part of the rule is irrelevant.
When the ball rebounded off Pedro, Messi was level or behind the ball.  It shouldn't have been called offside.

Offline Bakes

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #376 on: February 17, 2011, 09:07:27 PM »
If yuh level or behind the ball, the two defender part of the rule is irrelevant.
When the ball rebounded off Pedro, Messi was level or behind the ball.  It shouldn't have been called offside.


I agree with this... maybe is my recollection of the sequence that wrong if what you, Kicker and Elan saying, but I seem to recall him being ahead of the ball and the next to last defender when it was initially played towards Pedro.

Offline dumpalewie

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #377 on: February 17, 2011, 10:48:10 PM »
Chow all that talk about parking the bus is just you hating as a Chelsea fan. Exactly what Barca does, attacking the ball while on defense, is exactly what Arsenal did. Fact is, Arsenal outshot Barca. If RVP was his usual more clinical self it could have been more. The first chance of the game is something he would normally score.
Barca had more possession as you would expect but you have to consider where that possession was. Mostly at the middle and back. I saw someone say that Barca didn't respect Arsenal so they left the middle open. In the same vein you could say that Arsenal didn't respect Barca so they gave Villa a free run on goal. Arsenal's possession is much more direct than Barca. Besides Messi and to some extent Alves, no Barca player really attempted to take on their defenders. Nasri and Walcott ran at defenders with every chance. Fact is, Fabregas and RVP didn't have their best games overall and will improve for the next game. Nasri will improve, Song will improve, Sagna will replace Eboue. The better team won.

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Offline Mango Chow!

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #378 on: February 18, 2011, 07:29:50 AM »

Allyuh men does really see what yuh want to see and run wit it oui....arsenal's play is always going to be more "direct" because at the core, it is still the basic counterattacking style that is english football.  What they DO have is skilled players with an abundance of speed (more than the average english team) that allows them to develop or aspire for, an attacking game that is more artful.....like Barca's. But at the end of the day, they still use the collapsing of numbers on defense when teams get behind them.  (and Barca don't do that so it gives teams more incentive to go hard on the counter).  As far as Messi being the "only" man that was "taking on defenders" as you say, he is always the main man that is going to that  but Barca is not particularly a team of dribblers, they are a tem of passers and that is how they come at defenses.  nasri and walcott are always goig to "take on defenders" because that is simly what works best for them as individuals and on that team.
  And as far as the shooting stats is concerned, it remind me of a debate some time ago where men were using raw stats to say that cronaldo was a "better header" of the ball than Messi...well, again I say, Barca is not particulalry a shooting team, (or a heading team) they are a passing team so take them shooting stats and go so---->wit dem.  You say Barca "didn't respect" arsenal by leaving the middle open.  I don't think it's a disrespect thing as much as it is that Barca are confident they are going to control the middle through possession.  Nor do I think that arsenal "didn't respect" Barca either, they used the high line and offside trap to negate Villa's strengths......except the few times it didn't work. 
fabregas and van persie can only improve but so much because they both had good games.  van persie's first chance wasn't as much that he didn't put it away as it was that valdes made a good save.  van persie couldn't have done anything else with that shot or put it anywhere else.  valdes just made a good save that had a little luck involved with it. Nasri is likely to have a good game on the return because Pique is out.  Sagna is always an improvement on eboue and song....is song.  He is a good player but your biggest disciplinary liability.   All dat other sit about me hatin' 'cause I is a Chelsea fan and the "better team" winnin' is just nonsense.


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Offline JDB

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #379 on: February 18, 2011, 09:35:20 AM »
Forgive me fellas if I retread any turf because I only scan the last 2 pages.

I wouldn't say that Arsenal parked the bus. They not capable of doing what Inter, Chelsea and United did in recent years. To be honest though Barcelona didn't force them to either. I was listening to the game in the car and when I reach the bar at around the 30 minute mark I was surprised at how casual Barcelona were. for that 30-45 minute period it was like a trainig match. Barcelona had all the possession but they were not stretching Arsenal or really causing them to exert themselves. Fabregas barely had to jog to cover the movement of the ball infront of him. It was very different to how Spain had Germany going for 90 minutes with Spain always one pass or dribble away from the breakthrough, or how Barcelona attack Inter in the second leg last year.

Is only then I realize that Barcelona score in the time it take meh to reach the spot. Barclona at 1-0 felt very superior to Arsenal. They seem to up it in the second half a bit, probably expectng Arsenal to be tired and more prone to a lapse but they still seemed happy to go home with the 1-0 until the RVP thunderbolt.

I happy for Arsenal but a lot of the praise is revisionism based on the result. Barcelona still dominated the game. Both goals were deserved but Van Persie's was freakish. Great talent but yuh can't expect soemthing like that all the time.

The good thing for Arsenal is that when Barcelona did decide to turn it back on in th elast 10 minutes they were good enough to hit them on the break. That is a consololation for Arsenal considering what they will face in the Nou Camp. I still think Barcelona are favourites but obviously not as much as last year.

As for players Wiltshire was good, very good, but the hype machine done gone into overdrive in England.

Also the disallowed goal was not offside. Just like Inter 3rd home goal last year was not a real goal, Barca get a raw deal. Strange that they don't complain as much but then after the calls they get against Chelsea in '09 they probably taking these bad calls in stride. Also curious that none of the English press on the radio even mentioning the false offside call.

Agree with kicker that Koscielny was immense, despite the hairstyle. He work real hard to cover the space next to Clichy, and keep a lid on Messi.

Walcott will be the key. He disciplined, almost too much so because was obsessed with the space behind hima t all times and didn't stretch Barca. His pace is Arsenal best hope.
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Offline Peong

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #380 on: February 18, 2011, 09:44:05 AM »
fabregas and van persie can only improve but so much because they both had good games.  van persie's first chance wasn't as much that he didn't put it away as it was that valdes made a good save.  van persie couldn't have done anything else with that shot or put it anywhere else.  valdes just made a good save that had a little luck involved with it. Nasri is likely to have a good game on the return because Pique is out.  Sagna is always an improvement on eboue and song....is song.  He is a good player but your biggest disciplinary liability.   All dat other sit about me hatin' 'cause I is a Chelsea fan and the "better team" winnin' is just nonsense.

Good save?  You really only see what you want to see.  The ball hit Valdez in the chest. He didn't know much about that at all. 
The second bolded sentence calls your kicking knowledge into question. :devil: If Van Persie was at full stretch, then yuh could say that he couldn't put the ball anywhere else, but that was not the case.
He hit it flush with the top of his foot, but also had the angle and space to hit it with some slice on the outside of his foot, which would send the ball nearer the first post and higher up.

Three plays really annoyed me:
Walcott made a pass to Van Persie on the right when he had Nasri I believe in acres of space on the left.  Bad decision.
Also Van Persie had a shot on the left when Toure was coming across to him that went wide.  He had no reason to miss the target on that one.
Then Bendtner with his greedy play when he went to the near post.
Messi had about 3 misses that we would expect him to score.  The 1-v-1 that he chipped wide, the time he chipped it straight at the keeper, and the one he hit into the side netting.  If it was the usual Messi he would have buried those.

I think the Nou Camp will be a slaughterhouse.

Edit:  What Toure I talkin about dey?   Now ketch myself.  :rotfl:
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 01:04:24 PM by Peong »

Offline Touches

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #381 on: February 18, 2011, 10:09:05 AM »
It's amazing how all these Barca fans are adamant that Barca will do the deed in the Nou Camp and Arsenal will get 3-4 goals past them etc.

That is not a given. It is an assumption and it seems this is the mantra they all have to cling to and say to themselves to console the fact that they just get LIX.

While Barca is capable of scoring....So can Arsenal.

It is not cut and clear and easy like that.

As it stands Arsenal can lose 4-3 and still qualify or even draw no matter what the scoreline.

a 2-1 result will send the tie to extra time and then penalties so all Barca Massive Cool alyuhself.

Take yuh two goals in yuh pwefin. Chill till Carnival tuesday and hope for the best.

Passes and Possession does not always equal goals...all dem small triangle and tock tock across the park counts for nothing if the scoreline is not in your favour.

Anyhow...Barca faithfull, mind Bendtner ent purge alyuh in the 2nd leg.  :devil:


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Offline DeSoWa

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #382 on: February 18, 2011, 10:22:18 AM »
Another thing I find funny...is the same men who does come on here and knock Arsenal for their pretty brand of passing and keeping possession, even against teams like ManU and Chelsea and still end up losing...now it happened to Barcelona and they tune change and saying all kinda thing like Arsenal was too defensive...the 1st goal what RVP scored was not a counter goal...it was a nice build up...the 2nd goal was a semi counter goal, it still took about 4 passes to make that goal happen!

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Offline Bakes

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #383 on: February 18, 2011, 10:31:46 AM »
It's amazing how all these Barca fans are adamant that Barca will do the deed in the Nou Camp and Arsenal will get 3-4 goals past them etc.

That is not a given. It is an assumption and it seems this is the mantra they all have to cling to and say to themselves to console the fact that they just get LIX.

What's even funnier is that some of them ent even Barca fans.  Some rating Barca because they genuinely think Barca is legions better than Arsenal... but others, yuh could tell is just thinly-veiled dislike fuh the Gunners.

Offline Bitter

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #384 on: February 18, 2011, 10:34:47 AM »
All the back and forth just prove that it was a good game. I could watch them 2 teams play each other 10 times and the 10th would probably be a good match.

Just a couple of points to add.
1. No matter how good a team is, the opposing side is actively trying to disrupt what they are best at. Some are more capable than others, whether it be game plan or personnel. Arsenal used it's strengths to (somewhat) negate Barca. Barca will adjust in the return leg to do the same to Arsenal.

2. If you want to talk about parking the bus, look no further than Man U vs Arsenal. Of course, the pundits soften it by saying the man U allows Arsenal to possess the ball in the middle 3rd while closing down the channels in the defensive third. then everyone talks about how Arsenal have no edge. I remarked to my father last year that Man U was playing like a bottom-of-the-league side, no adventure (like Man City this year as well)
His reply: Why should you let them do what they want to do? Park the bus, hit them on the counter, take the 3 points. Style does only count in figure skating.
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Offline kicker

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #385 on: February 18, 2011, 11:02:33 AM »
It's amazing how all these Barca fans are adamant that Barca will do the deed in the Nou Camp and Arsenal will get 3-4 goals past them etc.

Based on how the first game went, I doh really see Barca blowing away the 2nd game.  I think it's advantage Arsenal and Barca have a little uphill to climb.  Barca has alot of quality and Camp Nou is a tough place to get a result as an away team- so they have something going for them, but the home crowd pressure could work both ways...The away goal helps too...

Arsenal is playing well, they have the underdog label and everyone expecting them to lose, not to mention they are already one goal up- to me that's a better situation going into this game... Difficult to see them folding to a large loss...


This coming from a RM fan- so discount as you see fit  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 11:06:18 AM by kicker »
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Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #386 on: February 18, 2011, 11:57:38 AM »
I think the formation Barcelona started with (which looks like a diamond) makes them too dependent on Messi in the playmaker position. Sure he's a brilliant player but he wasn't at his best Wednesday. Fortunately their fullbacks provide width like nobody else, so it gives them an alternate attack in the formation. I think that with the rise and rise of Messi, the team is becoming more dependent on him.

Arsenal did a lot right this game, but their offside line, while the right idea, wasn't executed particularly well. They were lucky a few times. Like the 2 goals Ibra scored at the Emirates last year, they played the high line, but then gave the Barca midfielder with the ball too little pressure, allowing him to pick out the through ball.

Offensively Arsenal wasted too much time trying to short pass their way through midfield, which just invited pressure and kept costing them possession. When they played longer balls to the front lines. I think that's why Bendtner was put on. They bypassed the pressure and exposed Barca’s weak(ish) defence. The Arsenal Plan B highlighted in the recent Everton game paid dividends here, under slightly different circumstances. This was augmented by Wilshere’s runs through midfield. I don't know why I never realised how strong he is when running with the ball.

Finally I think Barca, as good as they are, are becoming a little too predictable for top level competitors. Pep will have to figure out a way to adjust his formation or tactics for Carnival Tuesday. Arsenal is still obviously a work in progress, but their progress is undeniable.
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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #387 on: February 18, 2011, 12:43:22 PM »
I think the formation Barcelona started with (which looks like a diamond) makes them too dependent on Messi in the playmaker position. Sure he's a brilliant player but he wasn't at his best Wednesday. Fortunately their fullbacks provide width like nobody else, so it gives them an alternate attack in the formation. I think that with the rise and rise of Messi, the team is becoming more dependent on him.

Arsenal did a lot right this game, but their offside line, while the right idea, wasn't executed particularly well. They were lucky a few times. Like the 2 goals Ibra scored at the Emirates last year, they played the high line, but then gave the Barca midfielder with the ball too little pressure, allowing him to pick out the through ball.

Offensively Arsenal wasted too much time trying to short pass their way through midfield, which just invited pressure and kept costing them possession. When they played longer balls to the front lines. I think that's why Bendtner was put on. They bypassed the pressure and exposed Barca’s weak(ish) defence. The Arsenal Plan B highlighted in the recent Everton game paid dividends here, under slightly different circumstances. This was augmented by Wilshere’s runs through midfield. I don't know why I never realised how strong he is when running with the ball.

Finally I think Barca, as good as they are, are becoming a little too predictable for top level competitors. Pep will have to figure out a way to adjust his formation or tactics for Carnival Tuesday. Arsenal is still obviously a work in progress, but their progress is undeniable.

Barca's line up is confusing and I'm not sure it it's a traditional diamond, and some would argue that they often have no real out and out forward... Even D. Villa who is their most out and out forward takes up a wide withdrawn position.  Messi, Iniesta and Xavi are the creative engines - Xavi the purest playmaker of them all, with Messi being the most advanced, and sometimes even as a pure striker... Along with the wingbacks, Pedro gives width to the midfield creative trio and is a more direct type of player...Busquets is the protector.  If Puyol was fit, Abidal and Alves would be the wide threat...but instead it's Maxwell who to me is neither here nor there as an attacking wing back - I think Arsenal benefitted from that. 

Barca might be predictable in what they do because they don't have the big man option and they don't stray from their core philosophy in building the play up...but they are certainly not predictable in how they do what they do...the angles at which they attack and the runs they make are pretty confusing....The big difference was that in the Arsenal game after they were one goal up they didn't go for the jugular and exploit the forward channels in a direct enough manner, and many times I think they let Arsenal off the hook after the play broke down by being a bit too casual, and not direct enough...I expect that will change in Camp Nou.  Arsenal will have to play the same game they played at Emirates, disciplined at the back, and speedy in attack...just finish a bit better....Whether or not you get the lucky breaks is under no one's control...
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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #388 on: February 18, 2011, 01:38:52 PM »
I think the formation Barcelona started with (which looks like a diamond) makes them too dependent on Messi in the playmaker position. Sure he's a brilliant player but he wasn't at his best Wednesday. Fortunately their fullbacks provide width like nobody else, so it gives them an alternate attack in the formation. I think that with the rise and rise of Messi, the team is becoming more dependent on him.

Arsenal did a lot right this game, but their offside line, while the right idea, wasn't executed particularly well. They were lucky a few times. Like the 2 goals Ibra scored at the Emirates last year, they played the high line, but then gave the Barca midfielder with the ball too little pressure, allowing him to pick out the through ball.

Offensively Arsenal wasted too much time trying to short pass their way through midfield, which just invited pressure and kept costing them possession. When they played longer balls to the front lines. I think that's why Bendtner was put on. They bypassed the pressure and exposed Barca’s weak(ish) defence. The Arsenal Plan B highlighted in the recent Everton game paid dividends here, under slightly different circumstances. This was augmented by Wilshere’s runs through midfield. I don't know why I never realised how strong he is when running with the ball.

Finally I think Barca, as good as they are, are becoming a little too predictable for top level competitors. Pep will have to figure out a way to adjust his formation or tactics for Carnival Tuesday. Arsenal is still obviously a work in progress, but their progress is undeniable.

Barca's line up is confusing and I'm not sure it it's a traditional diamond, and some would argue that they often have no real out and out forward... Even D. Villa who is their most out and out forward takes up a wide withdrawn position.  Messi, Iniesta and Xavi are the creative engines - Xavi the purest playmaker of them all, with Messi being the most advanced, and sometimes even as a pure striker... Along with the wingbacks, Pedro gives width to the midfield creative trio and is a more direct type of player...Busquets is the protector.  If Puyol was fit, Abidal and Alves would be the wide threat...but instead it's Maxwell who to me is neither here nor there as an attacking wing back - I think Arsenal benefitted from that. 

Barca might be predictable in what they do because they don't have the big man option and they don't stray from their core philosophy in building the play up...but they are certainly not predictable in how they do what they do...the angles at which they attack and the runs they make are pretty confusing....The big difference was that in the Arsenal game after they were one goal up they didn't go for the jugular and exploit the forward channels in a direct enough manner, and many times I think they let Arsenal off the hook after the play broke down by being a bit too casual, and not direct enough...I expect that will change in Camp Nou.  Arsenal will have to play the same game they played at Emirates, disciplined at the back, and speedy in attack...just finish a bit better....Whether or not you get the lucky breaks is under no one's control...

No it’s not a traditional diamond. It just looks like one. They play a narrow 433, but when they play teams who have a high offside line, one forward (normally Messi) drops off a little to lure a center back higher up the pitch. This leaves a big gap in the defences offside line to get through balls for the other 2 to run on to. Barca destroyed Espanyol 5-1 earlier this year doing that. They also did it a few times in the Madrid game. So Messi isn’t a playmaker in that formation, like Seedorf on Tuesday. I guess it’s a type of 4312, which is broadly similar to a diamond. The difference is that in this, the -1- is not a playmaker, but a forward who drops deep to disrupt the offside line. The similarity to the diamond means that they depend on the wingbacks a lot, and yeah, Maxwell is no Abidal, but he did a decent job.

Any team that uses core beliefs or systems becomes predictable eventually. Guardiola has been brilliant at tweaking it to counter different responses to it. And they are technically superb, which means it still works against most opposition. Arsenal, as you said, has to stay disciplined at the back, but they need to put more pressure on the Barca midfielders instead of standing off. And yeah, van Persie needs to bring his finishing back up to it’s usual level. Walcott too. He’s regressing in that department.
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Re: 1/8 UCL 1st Leg • Arsenal FC vs FC Barcelona • 16 Feb 2011
« Reply #389 on: February 18, 2011, 03:23:17 PM »
Another thing I find funny...is the same men who does come on here and knock Arsenal for their pretty brand of passing and keeping possession, even against teams like ManU and Chelsea and still end up losing...now it happened to Barcelona and they tune change and saying all kinda thing like Arsenal was too defensive...

ent  :beermug: had the same thought after the game. expect it.

 

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