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Author Topic: The Jack Warner Thread.  (Read 423756 times)

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Offline JDB

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Hrrmmmm....so Jack actually got set up on this one  :thinking:

Is it usual protocol to tape meetings? especially a covert one such as this where big business was being discussed.

Somebody blow the whistle and set up the scene.

Imagine if everybody had eaten their biscuit and hush dey mouth what would have happened?



I think the events of the day before were so crazy that somebody thought there would be value in taping this. Jack had already hear about Bahamas and co. talking to Concacaf in NY and I sure it had real talk passing before the second day.

If it wasn't for the fact that we was wasting down the rest of Concacaf so badly I woulda say that Jack tape it heself as a defence against the bribery charges.
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Offline Socapro

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I listened to the full unedited version of Jack Warner's address to CFU at the Telegraph link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/8820948/Former-Fifa-vice-president-Jack-Warner-is-caught-on-tape-offering-gifts-of-25000-to-Caribbean-delegates.html
Very interesting!

Unfortunately this setting up of Jack was inevitable after he embarrassed Prince William and the England World Cup bid team!

He should not have misled them like that about them having his support!

In revenge they probably encouraged one of their British colonies who is still loyal to the Queen and a CFU member to set up Jack by making this recording!

England would have gotten their revenge on Jack sooner or later, it was simply a matter of time!
It is so ironic that Jack was a good leader for the CFU and CONCACAF but was also at the same time a curse & blessing (more of a curse though) to T&T football!
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 11:22:39 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Deeks

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Horner, Pplz, do come with that. Jack did himself in. Excessive hubris. Felt untouchable. The longest rope has an end. We all know that the USA, Mex, and the Central Amer. all for themselves. So is up to the CFU to move pass jack. Whatever happens so be it. We will survive. When you look at TT football you honestly feels that TT has benefitted. The person with all the benefits is jack. Everything must pass thru him. That can't wuk. Money laundering, scheming, squeezing players balls. We nah take that, as Bro. Resistance say. Yeh, let him raze. again.

Offline Trini

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As much as I dont like Jack Warner who we all know is a master crook and smartman, after watching the entire video and reading the transcript, he broke no law here.
What he did was unethical, and as CONCACAF President, he should have directed the members not to accept anything, heck he should not have even convinced Bin Hamin to bring anything.
But we all know this is how the world works, from political parties to companies and their contractors.
He was unethical, not illegal.


I actually find his speech to be somewhat noble in that he actually gave people the choice of returning the money if they felt a ways.
But then is Jack Warner we talking about, so what is noble for him is expected from a mortal soul.

Not sure how much weight the ethics violations has in FIFA, really doesnt matter cause he resigned long time.
What was insightful was the personal tirade against Platini.

Jack mash up England and now is payback.

Offline diamondtrim

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What exactly is the complaint against Jack here?

Offline E-man

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Haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but very interesting though I'm not too surprised.

Jack fought hard for Concacaf, we had two places before ladies and gentlemen, he got us 3.5, no one else would have done the same.

Every time this is brought up, they fail to mention that the number of finalists went from 16 to 24 to 32 in the same period.

Offline FF

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As much as I dont like Jack Warner who we all know is a master crook and smartman, after watching the entire video and reading the transcript, he broke no law here.
What he did was unethical, and as CONCACAF President, he should have directed the members not to accept anything, heck he should not have even convinced Bin Hamin to bring anything.
But we all know this is how the world works, from political parties to companies and their contractors.
He was unethical, not illegal.


I actually find his speech to be somewhat noble in that he actually gave people the choice of returning the money if they felt a ways.
But then is Jack Warner we talking about, so what is noble for him is expected from a mortal soul.

Not sure how much weight the ethics violations has in FIFA, really doesnt matter cause he resigned long time.
What was insightful was the personal tirade against Platini.

Jack mash up England and now is payback.

:bs: Jack only come and start to talk bout give back if yuh conscience bothering yuh after it was clear people went and pose questions to the Concacaf NY office... he was trying to circle the wagons and cover he behind!

And I don't know about you... but inherent in the leadership I am looking for is ethical behaviour.

From 19 how long... we all know how Jack does conduct it... but yuh never really had concrete public proof of his despicable actions... only hearsay, but what does happen in de dark does come out in de light.
and from "ticket or leave it" to the 06 Warriors bonus scandal and now bribery allegations and dis subsequent tape, all de world is seeing Jack Warner true character. He is a sociopath!

Definition of a sociopath

1.failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2.deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3.impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
4.irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5.reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6.consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7.lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

   
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Bakes

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Will he do the right thing and resign??

yeah right....

EDIT: I now take in de video...  :rotfl: dey need subtitles for Jack yes...
plenty times they put inaudible and is just Jack stuttering and stammering lol

FALL ON YOUR SWORD JACK.... this is very embarrassing to the country!

I actually disagree with your take... the deeper we get into this thing the more hypocritical FIFA seems, and the more sympathetic they make Jack appear.  Clearly the recording was done surreptitiously, implying that the person was either planted there to get the 'evidence', or that Jack was otherwise set up for a fall.

And what does the "evidence" show?  According to Jack, Bin Hamman was going to bring some silver plaques and other trinkets for distribution. Jack told him to put a price on it and make the gift cash instead (for good reason).  According to Jack (I have to keep saying that, because all we have is his words) he told Bin Hamman that he will not guarantee any votes and from the clip he makes it clear to the CFU members that they were under no obligation to vote for Bin Hamman or anyone else... in fact they didn't even have to tell him (Warner) how they intended to vote... so exactly how was this supposed to be 'buying votes' by Bin Hamman?

Jack instead make a very cogent argument for the CFU to vote as a bloc, b/c they could control the fate of the next President that way rather than by splintering the vote... a very solid argument.  He is lukewarm about another 4 years of Blatter, and clearly apprehensive of Platini succeeding Blatter, as is currently the plan.  I don't know much about Platini's politics or why Jack see him as such a threat... but on everything else I fully agree with Jack.  It is clear that this meeting wasn't to buy anyone's vote or to bribe officials. Yes by giving them cash some crooked individuals could keep it for themselves, but Jack made it clear that they could (should?) use if for their local FA ("development, pay salaries") and at no point is it implied that this was a personal gift to the individual.

In any other forum this meeting and what was discussed would seem reasonable, but clearly FIFA (and the other 10 CONCACAF members) saw this as a threat to the status quo, saw it as a chance to break up the CFU as a bloc, and since they could make up their own laws, they decided that this was a bribe thing, and a breach of ethics.  Sadly the rest of the world, and some ah allyuh fall fuh it.

Offline JDB

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I listened to the full unedited version of Jack Warner's address to CFU at the Telegraph link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/8820948/Former-Fifa-vice-president-Jack-Warner-is-caught-on-tape-offering-gifts-of-25000-to-Caribbean-delegates.html
Very interesting!

Unfortunately this setting up of Jack was inevitable after he embarrassed Prince William and the England World Cup bid team!

He should not have misled them like that about them having his support!

In revenge they probably encouraged one of their British colonies who is still loyal to the Queen and a CFU member to set up Jack by making this recording!

England would have gotten their revenge on Jack sooner or later, it was simply a matter of time!
It is so ironic that Jack was a good leader for the CFU and CONCACAF but was also at the same time a curse & blessing (more of a curse though) to T&T football!

Pro I don't know if being based in England gives you this perspective but England kinda clueless and powerless when it comes to power and politics in FIFA.

If yuh had say one of the newspapers was hunting for a scandal I might agree but but the English FA wasn't catching Jack in nothing.

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Offline diamondtrim

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Will he do the right thing and resign??

yeah right....

EDIT: I now take in de video...  :rotfl: dey need subtitles for Jack yes...
plenty times they put inaudible and is just Jack stuttering and stammering lol

FALL ON YOUR SWORD JACK.... this is very embarrassing to the country!

I actually disagree with your take... the deeper we get into this thing the more hypocritical FIFA seems, and the more sympathetic they make Jack appear.  Clearly the recording was done surreptitiously, implying that the person was either planted there to get the 'evidence', or that Jack was otherwise set up for a fall.

And what does the "evidence" show?  According to Jack, Bin Hamman was going to bring some silver plaques and other trinkets for distribution. Jack told him to put a price on it and make the gift cash instead (for good reason).  According to Jack (I have to keep saying that, because all we have is his words) he told Bin Hamman that he will not guarantee any votes and from the clip he makes it clear to the CFU members that they were under no obligation to vote for Bin Hamman or anyone else... in fact they didn't even have to tell him (Warner) how they intended to vote... so exactly how was this supposed to be 'buying votes' by Bin Hamman?

Jack instead make a very cogent argument for the CFU to vote as a bloc, b/c they could control the fate of the next President that way rather than by splintering the vote... a very solid argument.  He is lukewarm about another 4 years of Blatter, and clearly apprehensive of Platini succeeding Blatter, as is currently the plan.  I don't know much about Platini's politics or why Jack see him as such a threat... but on everything else I fully agree with Jack.  It is clear that this meeting wasn't to buy anyone's vote or to bribe officials. Yes by giving them cash some crooked individuals could keep it for themselves, but Jack made it clear that they could (should?) use if for their local FA ("development, pay salaries") and at no point is it implied that this was a personal gift to the individual.

In any other forum this meeting and what was discussed would seem reasonable, but clearly FIFA (and the other 10 CONCACAF members) saw this as a threat to the status quo, saw it as a chance to break up the CFU as a bloc, and since they could make up their own laws, they decided that this was a bribe thing, and a breach of ethics.  Sadly the rest of the world, and some ah allyuh fall fuh it.

I don't like d bess letter in 99% percent of yuh posts....i doh even like d jackass crest yuh have by yuh name....matter of fact i doh even like yuh name. I hate bake....as a kid my mudda used to make bess bake and ah hate to see idiots pretending to be bakey.....

Anyway....good post. Just what I wanted to say jus dat i wasnt feelin to type...... :applause: :applause:

Offline Bakes

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Not really a smoking gun as for the bribery issue but a very interesting transcript.

It seems this is Jack’s ham-fisted attempt to deal with the blowback from the previous day’s bribe. It does show that his first response to the heat was to just grandcharge as usual.

I see Lisle Austin get a shout out from Jack and it confirm some of the warped workings of the man’s mind.

A video from the private meetings the day before would have been something else.


This is nonsense... the question was posed to Jack whether he would run for the Presidency... he then say that if Blatter wins "we" must start grooming a candidate to run against Platini in four years.  He said (and I paraphrase) "we must start grooming the President of Barbados -- and I am just calling his name here because he is mih pardna (chuckle)-- to run for President".

What kinda "shout out" is that... or how is that evidence of the "warped workings" of Warner's mind?

Offline Bakes

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We must call a spade a spade.  De man has acted deviously in the past regardless of intention.  Again this shines a really bad light on us as Trinbagonians and the government by extension.  I don't see him surviving this one since there are clearly some legal issues questions to be answered, but then it is Trinidad and Tobago we talking about.  Jack can no longer claim ignorance to Bin Hanaman's bringing of gifts or the form of the gifts, since he directed him to bring gifts in the form of a currency equivalent.

As for being setup, that goes without saying.  We must not forget that there are still British Colonies in the CFU.  Their allegiance is to the Queen and Jack screwed the Queen hard with a little foreplay.

On this evidence there will be no tears shed for Jack by me.

Blessings

How does this embarrass TnT?  What "legal issues questions" have to be answered?  Did you watch the full video?  There is nothing illegal at all shown there on the tape.  A tape of the previous day's proceedings would add little, since Jack confirms that money was passed.  The passing of the money isn't illegal (even if we agree that it was for a bribe)... and particularly since Jack makes it clear that people can keep it or give it back, and whatever their decision, how they vote is their business, no promises were made to Bin Hamman and there was no quid pro quo. So how is this a bribe? Allyuh need to be more critical in allyuh analysis and not be so easily swayed by dislike for Jack or by the temporary euphoria we feeling now at his demise.

Offline diamondtrim

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We must call a spade a spade.  De man has acted deviously in the past regardless of intention.  Again this shines a really bad light on us as Trinbagonians and the government by extension.  I don't see him surviving this one since there are clearly some legal issues questions to be answered, but then it is Trinidad and Tobago we talking about.  Jack can no longer claim ignorance to Bin Hanaman's bringing of gifts or the form of the gifts, since he directed him to bring gifts in the form of a currency equivalent.

As for being setup, that goes without saying.  We must not forget that there are still British Colonies in the CFU.  Their allegiance is to the Queen and Jack screwed the Queen hard with a little foreplay.

On this evidence there will be no tears shed for Jack by me.

Blessings

How does this embarrass TnT?  What "legal issues questions" have to be answered?  Did you watch the full video?  There is nothing illegal at all shown there on the tape.  A tape of the previous day's proceedings would add little, since Jack confirms that money was passed.  The passing of the money isn't illegal (even if we agree that it was for a bribe)... and particularly since Jack makes it clear that people can keep it or give it back, and whatever their decision, how they vote is their business, no promises were made to Bin Hamman and there was no quid pro quo. So how is this a bribe? Allyuh need to be more critical in allyuh analysis and not be so easily swayed by dislike for Jack or by the temporary euphoria we feeling now at his demise.

Not really a smoking gun as for the bribery issue but a very interesting transcript.

It seems this is Jack’s ham-fisted attempt to deal with the blowback from the previous day’s bribe. It does show that his first response to the heat was to just grandcharge as usual.

I see Lisle Austin get a shout out from Jack and it confirm some of the warped workings of the man’s mind.

A video from the private meetings the day before would have been something else.


This is nonsense... the question was posed to Jack whether he would run for the Presidency... he then say that if Blatter wins "we" must start grooming a candidate to run against Platini in four years.  He said (and I paraphrase) "we must start grooming the President of Barbados -- and I am just calling his name here because he is mih pardna (chuckle)-- to run for President".

What kinda "shout out" is that... or how is that evidence of the "warped workings" of Warner's mind?


You on fire today...... :applause:

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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:heehee: Jack will rise again?  :devil:

Raise bredda!! the word is RAISE!!  :pissedoff:
Ent! Tell him dey Dinho!  :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline pardners

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Hrrmmmm....so Jack actually got set up on this one  :thinking:

Is it usual protocol to tape meetings? especially a covert one such as this where big business was being discussed.

Somebody blow the whistle and set up the scene.

Imagine if everybody had eaten their biscuit and hush dey mouth what would have happened?



I think the events of the day before were so crazy that somebody thought there would be value in taping this. Jack had already hear about Bahamas and co. talking to Concacaf in NY and I sure it had real talk passing before the second day.

If it wasn't for the fact that we was wasting down the rest of Concacaf so badly I woulda say that Jack tape it heself as a defence against the bribery charges.

I was thinking along similar lines...
Me eh holding no brief for Jack, but any lawyer worth his salt could defend Jack of any wrong doing on this one.  The more I look at the so called video evidence, it looks as though all Jack guilty of is telling his CFU companions to stick together when voting time reach.  At the beginning he was actually trying to exonerate himself from bribery by saying he tell Bin Hammam to give cash instead of gifts because of the luggage issue...he also didn't want it to come from him (Warner) to appear in any devious way.   Me eh no lawyer, but I feel he do just enough to escape the hangman noose based on the video.

I feel Jack's lawyers could actually make him come out smelling good in this one.  Where he could get some stick is in actually telling BH to bring cash instead of gifts...knowing full well the maximum limit of cash he coulda bring in the country.  The other questions would come up as to why he didn't want the media present in the meeting and so on, but he could ease out of that through confidentiality reasons.

The Opposition will have a field day with this one...Kamla will of course deny knowledge of anything and say he did nothing wrong.  The Police Commissioner will say he have to wait until the CAS finally rule after Bin Hammam's appeal before he could treat with the situation.  In the end JACK will still be where he is right now and the country would have moved on to something new by then.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."        Every once in while a good post does come along.

Offline supporter

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Jack really didnt say anything that out of hand here...I dont see anything here that could implicate him on bribery.
Hart for president

Offline FF

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How does this embarrass TnT?  What "legal issues questions" have to be answered?  Did you watch the full video?  There is nothing illegal at all shown there on the tape.  A tape of the previous day's proceedings would add little, since Jack confirms that money was passed.  The passing of the money isn't illegal (even if we agree that it was for a bribe)... and particularly since Jack makes it clear that people can keep it or give it back, and whatever their decision, how they vote is their business, no promises were made to Bin Hamman and there was no quid pro quo. So how is this a bribe? Allyuh need to be more critical in allyuh analysis and not be so easily swayed by dislike for Jack or by the temporary euphoria we feeling now at his demise.

I disagree with you here... the correct ting to do was to instruct everybody to return the money.
In fact they shoulda refuse the money in de first place.

The man running for an election.. Any gift would suggest some impropriety.. much less $40,000 in cash.
Come on!


Also I find people getting tie up... this is not a matter of illegality.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:23:41 PM by FF »
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline weary1969

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How does this embarrass TnT?  What "legal issues questions" have to be answered?  Did you watch the full video?  There is nothing illegal at all shown there on the tape.  A tape of the previous day's proceedings would add little, since Jack confirms that money was passed.  The passing of the money isn't illegal (even if we agree that it was for a bribe)... and particularly since Jack makes it clear that people can keep it or give it back, and whatever their decision, how they vote is their business, no promises were made to Bin Hamman and there was no quid pro quo. So how is this a bribe? Allyuh need to be more critical in allyuh analysis and not be so easily swayed by dislike for Jack or by the temporary euphoria we feeling now at his demise.

I disagree with you here... the correct ting to do was to instruct everybody to return the money.
In fact they shoulda refuse the money in de first place.

The man running for an election.. Any gift would suggest some impropriety.. much less $40,000 in cash.
Come on!

Y u bothering it cyah stand up in a court of law so nutten was inappropriate.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bakes

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I disagree with you here... the correct ting to do was to instruct everybody to return the money.
In fact they shoulda refuse the money in de first place.

The man running for an election.. Any gift would suggest some impropriety.. much less $40,000 in cash.
Come on!


Also I find people getting tie up... this is not a matter of illegality.

FF... THE ENTIRE CONTEXT of this discussion is FIFA. What so hard to understand about that? 

You saying it was improper... and that the proper thing to do would have been to discourage either the offer and/or acceptance of the gifts.  This is true... by NORMAL ethical standards... normal ethical standards would dictate that there not be  any gifts at all, or keep them to a reasonable value as the IOC belatedly came to adopt.  But FIFA don't abide by normal ethical standards and to say that what Jack did here was improper, would be to hold him (Bin Hamman and the rest of the CFU officials) to a higher ethical standard than 99% of the rest of FIFA... hence my comments about the hypocrisy.  I'm not defending Jack, I am pointing out the hypocrisy.

Agree this is not a matter of illegality... unless yuh saying that for the benefit of those in the peanut gallery who talking about "bribe" and "lawyers" and the one special dunce, Weary who talking about "court of law".
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:53:00 PM by Bakes »

Offline MEP

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Jack is the acting Prime Minister of  Trinidad & Tobago,  embarassing man embarassing .
Worse than that...given his Ministerial portfolio, the Prime Minister should ask for his resignation or for the very least an investigation as you cannot and should not have a sitting member of Government implicated in a bribery scandal.

Offline weary1969

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I disagree with you here... the correct ting to do was to instruct everybody to return the money.
In fact they shoulda refuse the money in de first place.

The man running for an election.. Any gift would suggest some impropriety.. much less $40,000 in cash.
Come on!


Also I find people getting tie up... this is not a matter of illegality.

FF... THE ENTIRE CONTEXT of this discussion is FIFA. What so hard to understand about that? 

Agree this is not a matter of illegality... unless yuh saying that for the benefit of those in the peanut gallery who talking about "bribe" and "lawyers" and the one special dunce, Weary who talking about "court of law".

You saying it was improper... and that the proper thing to do would have been to discourage either the offer and/or acceptance of the gifts.  This is true... by NORMAL ethical standards... normal ethical standards would dictate that there not be  any gifts at all, or keep them to a reasonable value as the IOC belatedly came to adopt.  But FIFA don't abide by normal ethical standards and to say that what Jack did here was improper, would be to hold him (Bin Hamman and the rest of the CFU officials) to a higher ethical standard than 99% of the rest of FIFA... hence my comments about the hypocrisy.  I'm not defending Jack, I am pointing out the hypocrisy.

Well this dunce knows about d form that u does have 2 declare d amt of money that u bringin it. So when somebody tell me dat Bin H declare d money when he bring it in then and only then would I say no law was broken. Bribe being paid is d modus operandi in FIFA. So me eh gettin involve wit d bribe but then again I eh 2 bright.
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline soccerman

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That's how the real world runs and it just shows how FIFA operates as well. One can also argue the if Platini is being "groomed" to be the next president then that's corrupt as well IMO if that's indeed true. What I agree with is that CFU has to do what's best for CFU because in the grand scheme of things I doubt the heads of FIFA gives a damn about us.

Offline Bakes

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Well this dunce knows about d form that u does have 2 declare d amt of money that u bringin it. So when somebody tell me dat Bin H declare d money when he bring it in then and only then would I say no law was broken. Bribe being paid is d modus operandi in FIFA. So me eh gettin involve wit d bribe but then again I eh 2 bright.

Yuh right... yuh not too bright (which we already know).  The conversation is about Jack's actions... not Bin Hamman.  Only when people have proof that Jack was the one who bring the money in, or that he help Bin Hamman circumvent the declaration requirement... THEN allyuh could start talking about illegal activity and "court of law" fuh Jack.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:50:52 PM by Bakes »

Offline weary1969

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Well this dunce knows about d form that u does have 2 declare d amt of money that u bringin it. So when somebody tell me dat Bin H declare d money when he bring it in then and only then would I say no law was broken. Bribe being paid is d modus operandi in FIFA. So me eh gettin involve wit d bribe but then again I eh 2 bright.

Yuh right... yuh not too bright (which we already know).  The conversation is about Jack's actions... not Bin Hamman.  Unless people have proof that Jack was the one who bring the money in, or that he help circumvent the law... THEN allyuh could start talking about illegal activity and "court of law" fuh Jack.

Jack's action and Ben H join at d hip so oh bright 1 u cyah seperate dem. Jack eh bring in d money but he was d Min wit the responsibility 4 d airport at d time. So I guess as d decent and upstanding fella that he is he asked Ben H show meh where u declaration form 2 make sure that d money was brought into the country legally.
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Offline JDB

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Not really a smoking gun as for the bribery issue but a very interesting transcript.

It seems this is Jack’s ham-fisted attempt to deal with the blowback from the previous day’s bribe. It does show that his first response to the heat was to just grandcharge as usual.

I see Lisle Austin get a shout out from Jack and it confirm some of the warped workings of the man’s mind.

A video from the private meetings the day before would have been something else.


This is nonsense... the question was posed to Jack whether he would run for the Presidency... he then say that if Blatter wins "we" must start grooming a candidate to run against Platini in four years.  He said (and I paraphrase) "we must start grooming the President of Barbados -- and I am just calling his name here because he is mih pardna (chuckle)-- to run for President".

What kinda "shout out" is that... or how is that evidence of the "warped workings" of Warner's mind?

You might be connecting two separate observations about the entire transcript.

Shout out as in simply "his name get mentioned" nothing more nothing less. Notable because this is name that nobody else hear bout before his Concacaf "appointment" so it was funny to hear him being used as an example by Jack.

As for warped thinking, the speech is riddled with flawed thinking. Warner is either crazy if he believes himself or crazy to think that he could convince people of the nonesense he is speaking.

Not least of which is the idea that keeping a “development grant” from Bin Hamman secret would prevent the appearance of it being a bribe. The mechanics that any self-respecting FA would have to go though to account for a US 40,000 cash influx would necessitate underhand dealings. Not a problem in Warner’s world of laxed accounting but the transaction that he describes does not make sense to most people.

Then there is the referency to piety.  In Warner’s mind refusing the money is a question of piety when to most people you don’t even have to be pious, it is just plain improper to recieve 40,000 in cash, in private weeks before a vote. How can a reasonable person not believe that it is not an inducement to vote.

Like I said, I agree that this tape doesn’t say much about bribery but Warner’s words are clearly carefully chosen.  I am almost certain that this is not how the money was presented in private the previous day. Warner admits to as much in this attempt to “clear up the situation”.
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Offline Bakes

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Well this dunce knows about d form that u does have 2 declare d amt of money that u bringin it. So when somebody tell me dat Bin H declare d money when he bring it in then and only then would I say no law was broken. Bribe being paid is d modus operandi in FIFA. So me eh gettin involve wit d bribe but then again I eh 2 bright.

Yuh right... yuh not too bright (which we already know).  The conversation is about Jack's actions... not Bin Hamman.  Unless people have proof that Jack was the one who bring the money in, or that he help circumvent the law... THEN allyuh could start talking about illegal activity and "court of law" fuh Jack.

Jack's action and Ben H join at d hip so oh bright 1 u cyah seperate dem. Jack eh bring in d money but he was d Min wit the responsibility 4 d airport at d time. So I guess as d decent and upstanding fella that he is he asked Ben H show meh where u declaration form 2 make sure that d money was brought into the country legally.

Do you have any PROOF that Jack did anything illegal??

Offline weary1969

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Well this dunce knows about d form that u does have 2 declare d amt of money that u bringin it. So when somebody tell me dat Bin H declare d money when he bring it in then and only then would I say no law was broken. Bribe being paid is d modus operandi in FIFA. So me eh gettin involve wit d bribe but then again I eh 2 bright.

Yuh right... yuh not too bright (which we already know).  The conversation is about Jack's actions... not Bin Hamman.  Unless people have proof that Jack was the one who bring the money in, or that he help circumvent the law... THEN allyuh could start talking about illegal activity and "court of law" fuh Jack.

Jack's action and Ben H join at d hip so oh bright 1 u cyah seperate dem. Jack eh bring in d money but he was d Min wit the responsibility 4 d airport at d time. So I guess as d decent and upstanding fella that he is he asked Ben H show meh where u declaration form 2 make sure that d money was brought into the country legally.

Do you have any PROOF that Jack did anything illegal??

But I guess u have proof that he did everything above board but I guess only u have d right to make assumptions based on the evidence presnted.
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Offline Bakes

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You might be connecting two separate observations about the entire transcript.

Shout out as in simply "his name get mentioned" nothing more nothing less. Notable because this is name that nobody else hear bout before his Concacaf "appointment" so it was funny to hear him being used as an example by Jack.

As for warped thinking, the speech is riddled with flawed thinking. Warner is either crazy if he believes himself or crazy to think that he could convince people of the nonesense he is speaking.

Not least of which is the idea that keeping a “development grant” from Bin Hamman secret would prevent the appearance of it being a bribe. The mechanics that any self-respecting FA would have to go though to account for a US 40,000 cash influx would necessitate underhand dealings. Not a problem in Warner’s world of laxed accounting but the transaction that he describes does not make sense to most people.

Then there is the referency to piety.  In Warner’s mind refusing the money is a question of piety when to most people you don’t even have to be pious, it is just plain improper to recieve 40,000 in cash, in private weeks before a vote. How can a reasonable person not believe that it is not an inducement to vote.

Like I said, I agree that this tape doesn’t say much about bribery but Warner’s words are clearly carefully chosen.  I am almost certain that this is not how the money was presented in private the previous day. Warner admits to as much in this attempt to “clear up the situation”.


If it was "two separate observations" then I am not the one connecting them

Quote
I see Lisle Austin get a shout out from Jack and it confirm some of the warped workings of the man’s mind.

It is clear that in your mind the shout out "confirmed" things about the workings of Warner's mind... but whatever.  He didn't even call Austin by name... but again, if that is some kinda "shout out" worthy of highlighting to you, then so be it.

As for the rest of what you type... it seems apparent to me that you didn't watch the video and just (mis)read the transcripts.  Jack never said anything about keeping anything secret... in fact he clearly states that what was being discussed in the room was no secret to FIFA, since he let Blatter know what was going on.

This "bribe" as allyuh insist on painting it, is as improper as the bribe by the British to help develop facilities in Trinidad, as improper as them coming to TnT to play a meaningless friendly, as improper as Beckham holding a clinic for local kids... all clearly meant to influence Warner's support of the English WC bid. All of this was done in the open... why didn't FIFA charge Warner... and Lord Triesman et al over that?   The answer clearly is hypocrisy.  All of this moral posturing about what was "improper" and what not is just that... posturing.  The issue isn't one of propriety, the issues are illegal behavior that might subject him to TnT law, or unethical behavior that might subject him to FIFA discipline.  No such behavior is present on the film, nor has any such behavior been alleged save for Blazer/FIFA with the "bribe" talk.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 01:15:22 PM by Bakes »

Offline Bakes

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But I guess u have proof that he did everything above board but I guess only u have d right to make assumptions based on the evidence presnted.

Point out the assumptions that I am making... matter of fact don't even bother wasting we time any further.

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Btw the hea
Former Fifa vice-president Jack Warner is caught on tape offering 'gifts’ of £25,000 to Caribbean delegates.
By Paul Kelso, Chief Sports Reporter (Telegraph).


Jack Warner has been caught on tape apparently urging fellow Caribbean officials to accept cash gifts from Mohamed Bin Hammam, the disgraced former presidential candidate.

Btw, the initial headline of that article is very misleading but it is quickly corrected in the 1st paragraph!

Very mischievous of the Telegraph but that's to be expected as the English are out for revenge!!
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