March 28, 2024, 11:46:48 AM

Author Topic: The Jack Warner Thread.  (Read 423796 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline FF

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
    • View Profile


Elan, Bin H wanted to bring some wooden gifts but suggested he wouldnt be able to carry all of that for 30+ members. So, JW simply told him to bring a cash equivalent if that works for him. Looks harmless to me.

Allyuh thais wha jack TELL DEM that he and bin Hamman talk bout... AFTER de fact of money passing!
He covering he arse...

I like wha a man say upthread... everybody know what really went on dey, difficult ting to prove though.

ah next ting... since when some wooden trophy and bunting is de equivalent of $40,000 IN CASH!! He ent self go on record and call it ah donation... and write some checks... or make a pledge. Come on.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 12:03:15 PM by FF »
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Hoss de man even say he eh even kno if BH is de bess choice needa!  De unedited recording works even more in JW favor :rotfl:

De man say plain and straight that if we go with Blatter we have to make sure dat Platinni is not an automatic successor which to me make sense because any successor should be voted in as opposed to simply handed leadership.

Nah man I eh ah JW fan buh Jah allyuh rell ridiculous to assert dat dis recording paints JW in a negative light.

Offline FF

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
    • View Profile
Hoss de man even say he eh even kno if BH is de bess choice needa!  De unedited recording works even more in JW favor :rotfl:

De man say plain and straight that if we go with Blatter we have to make sure dat Platinni is not an automatic successor which to me make sense because any successor should be voted in as opposed to simply handed leadership.

Nah man I eh ah JW fan buh Jah allyuh rell ridiculous to assert dat dis recording paints JW in a negative light.

Now.. we talking in fine details here... but Killa what you think really went on?  ;) plain talk
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Hoss de man even say he eh even kno if BH is de bess choice needa!  De unedited recording works even more in JW favor :rotfl:

De man say plain and straight that if we go with Blatter we have to make sure dat Platinni is not an automatic successor which to me make sense because any successor should be voted in as opposed to simply handed leadership.

Nah man I eh ah JW fan buh Jah allyuh rell ridiculous to assert dat dis recording paints JW in a negative light.

Now.. we talking in fine details here... but Killa what you think really went on?  ;) plain talk

I think BH tell JW "ah go bring some plaque an trophy an ting" and JW say "hoss wha de f**k yuh wha we do wid dat, boy puh ah lil change an make people like yuh eh!"

Offline supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2659
    • View Profile


Elan, Bin H wanted to bring some wooden gifts but suggested he wouldnt be able to carry all of that for 30+ members. So, JW simply told him to bring a cash equivalent if that works for him. Looks harmless to me.

Allyuh thais wha jack TELL DEM that he and bin Hamman talk bout... AFTER de fact of money passing!
He covering he arse...

I like wha a man say upthread... everybody know what really went on dey, difficult ting to prove though.

ah next ting... since when some wooden trophy and bunting is de equivalent of $40,000 IN CASH!! He ent self go on record and call it ah donation... and write some checks... or make a pledge. Come on.



Oh, no doubt. We all know Jack bribed the hell out of Bin H. But, I was just commenting on whether the video itself implicated Jack.
Hart for president

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Oh, no doubt. We all know Jack bribed the hell out of Bin H. But, I was just commenting on whether the video itself implicated Jack.

Da video make JW look like he rell lookin out fuh CFU interests hard.  De man sounding like ah leader with his member nations in mind from beginning to end.

Offline FF

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
    • View Profile
I think BH tell JW "ah go bring some plaque an trophy an ting" and JW say "hoss wha de f**k yuh wha we do wid dat, boy puh ah lil change an make people like yuh eh!"

 :rotfl:
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Possession of cash is not a crime, but bringing in over $10, 000 dollars without declaration is a crime.

Steups... this is why I cyah have patience with allyuh yes.  Can you point to anything either on the tape or in fact that shows Jack telling Bin Hamman to not declare the cash?  In fact, yuh know what... doh bother, I done.

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Possession of cash is not a crime, but bringing in over $10, 000 dollars without declaration is a crime.

Steups... this is why I cyah have patience with allyuh yes.  Can you point to anything either on the tape or in fact that shows Jack telling Bin Hamman to not declare the cash?  In fact, yuh know what... doh bother, I done.

smart choice guy lol

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21980
    • View Profile
Possession of cash is not a crime, but bringing in over $10, 000 dollars without declaration is a crime.

Steups... this is why I cyah have patience with allyuh yes.  Can you point to anything either on the tape or in fact that shows Jack telling Bin Hamman to not declare the cash?  In fact, yuh know what... doh bother, I done.

smart choice guy lol

Some people have a problem with simple deductive reasoning... they want to jump from A to C without first stopping at B.  Everybody know how FIFA... how life operates.  Of course Bin Hamman was buying votes... of course!  Of course Jack ent 'facilitate' the meeting for free... of course!  Of course Bin Hamman ride in, likely with a suitcase full of cash and the CFU delegates ride out with money... of course!  But inferences aside, do we have enough to say "Jack bribe Bin Hamman" or "Jack help him get thru customs and bypass de declaration"? Of course not!

When yuh come thru Piarco, customs with they self-important selves does ask yuh if yuh have anything to declare.  Most ah we does say no and dey doh even bother searching we... is ah honor system. You ent need to special help passing thru customs, especially not if yuh travelling on a diplomatic passport.  People acting like they don't know what "diplomatic immunity" mean.  Allyuh feel Bin Hamman get de FIFA and WC organizing job because de Qataris think he's ah smart football man?  He's ah high ranking member of the royal inner circle, dem men have gold pass wherever they travel.  Of course I doh know this for fact, but it really ent that much of a reach to figure out how thing went down.

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Possession of cash is not a crime, but bringing in over $10, 000 dollars without declaration is a crime.

Steups... this is why I cyah have patience with allyuh yes.  Can you point to anything either on the tape or in fact that shows Jack telling Bin Hamman to not declare the cash?  In fact, yuh know what... doh bother, I done.

smart choice guy lol

Some people have a problem with simple deductive reasoning... they want to jump from A to C without first stopping at B.  Everybody know how FIFA... how life operates.  Of course Bin Hamman was buying votes... of course!  Of course Jack ent 'facilitate' the meeting for free... of course!  Of course Bin Hamman ride in, likely with a suitcase full of cash and the CFU delegates ride out with money... of course!  But inferences aside, do we have enough to say "Jack bribe Bin Hamman" or "Jack help him get thru customs and bypass de declaration"? Of course not!

When yuh come thru Piarco, customs with they self-important selves does ask yuh if yuh have anything to declare.  Most ah we does say no and dey doh even bother searching we... is ah honor system. You ent need to special help passing thru customs, especially not if yuh travelling on a diplomatic passport.  People acting like they don't know what "diplomatic immunity" mean.  Allyuh feel Bin Hamman get de FIFA and WC organizing job because de Qataris think he's ah smart football man?  He's ah high ranking member of the royal inner circle, dem men have gold pass wherever they travel.  Of course I doh know this for fact, but it really ent that much of a reach to figure out how thing went down.

So yuh mean to tell meh JW din ha to wait outside in ah sedan in case BH geh accosted by customs?  :shameonyou:

Offline MEP

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
Arrite Bakes lehwe work from this angle...is it a crime to bring in over $10,000 cash into the country? Yes
                                                        Was $40,000 in cash offered to any CFU  member? Yes
                                                        Do we have proof of that?                                 Yes
I know you're arguing the technicalities of the law but we have sufficient evidence to suggest that a crime was committed.
From a purely investigative standpoint we can assume
1. BH brought the cash in when he entered the country or
2.  that he somehow wired the money to the Caribbean and upon arrival withdrew it in allotments of $40,000. Highly implausible because it leaves a paper trail.
Now if we go with him knowingly bringing the money into the country then he either chose not to declare it or made a false declaration. Then he has committed a crime. Where did this cash come from? If I remember correctly from my Bank of Commerce days individual banks aren't allowed to keep more than $1,000 US in their vaults. What part Warner played is unknown. Plausible deniability? yes he can claim that but this is why an investigation needs to be done because there is a sitting member of Parliament and acting Prime Minister whose actions, at face value, appear to be improprietous.

Offline FF

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
    • View Profile
Arrite Bakes lehwe work from this angle...is it a crime to bring in over $10,000 cash into the country? Yes
                                                        Was $40,000 in cash offered to any CFU  member? Yes
                                                        Do we have proof of that?                                 Yes
I know you're arguing the technicalities of the law but we have sufficient evidence to suggest that a crime was committed.
From a purely investigative standpoint we can assume
1. BH brought the cash in when he entered the country or
2.  that he somehow wired the money to the Caribbean and upon arrival withdrew it in allotments of $40,000. Highly implausible because it leaves a paper trail.
Now if we go with him knowingly bringing the money into the country then he either chose not to declare it or made a false declaration. Then he has committed a crime. Where did this cash come from? If I remember correctly from my Bank of Commerce days individual banks aren't allowed to keep more than $1,000 US in their vaults. What part Warner played is unknown. Plausible deniability? yes he can claim that but this is why an investigation needs to be done because there is a sitting member of Parliament and acting Prime Minister whose actions, at face value, appear to be improprietous.

I cyah get pass this...

Even if this was true... you ent allowing for progress at all
THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Arrite Bakes lehwe work from this angle...is it a crime to bring in over $10,000 cash into the country? Yes
                                                        Was $40,000 in cash offered to any CFU  member? Yes
                                                        Do we have proof of that?                                 Yes
I know you're arguing the technicalities of the law but we have sufficient evidence to suggest that a crime was committed. Really?  What is this so called evidence?  Could it actually get someone convicted in court?
From a purely investigative standpoint we can assume

 
1. BH brought the cash in when he entered the country or Based on what exactly?
2.  that he somehow wired the money to the Caribbean and upon arrival withdrew it in allotments of $40,000. Highly implausible because it leaves a paper trail. If this is the case where is the crime? Is BH suspected of money laundering and therefore a wire tranfer would be cause for investigation?  When did it become a crime or violation of any kind to wire money to a foreign country and then withdraw once there?  So going by this if I wire $8000US to T&T and when I come withdraw all of it I have committed a crime since that is beyond the amount you allowed to come through customs with?

Now if we go with (why do we have to go with anything?  I thought there was evidence of something?) him knowingly bringing the money into the country then he either chose not to declare it or made a false declaration. Then he has committed a crime. Where did this cash come from? If I remember correctly from my Bank of Commerce days individual banks aren't allowed to keep more than $1,000 US in their vaults. What part Warner played is unknown. Plausible deniability? So far you haven't connected JW to anything so there is nothing to deny is there?  yes he can claim that but this is why an investigation needs to be done because there is a sitting member of Parliament and acting Prime Minister whose actions, at face value, appear to be improprietous.

Again based on what evidence can the witchunt sorry ah mean investigation be launched?

Offline MEP

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
Arrite Bakes lehwe work from this angle...is it a crime to bring in over $10,000 cash into the country? Yes
                                                        Was $40,000 in cash offered to any CFU  member? Yes
                                                        Do we have proof of that?                                 Yes
I know you're arguing the technicalities of the law but we have sufficient evidence to suggest that a crime was committed.
From a purely investigative standpoint we can assume
1. BH brought the cash in when he entered the country or
2.  that he somehow wired the money to the Caribbean and upon arrival withdrew it in allotments of $40,000. Highly implausible because it leaves a paper trail.
Now if we go with him knowingly bringing the money into the country then he either chose not to declare it or made a false declaration. Then he has committed a crime. Where did this cash come from? If I remember correctly from my Bank of Commerce days individual banks aren't allowed to keep more than $1,000 US in their vaults. What part Warner played is unknown. Plausible deniability? yes he can claim that but this is why an investigation needs to be done because there is a sitting member of Parliament and acting Prime Minister whose actions, at face value, appear to be improprietous.

I cyah get pass this...

Even if this was true... you ent allowing for progress at all

Individual banks as in branches had to send it to head office. It was a safety precaution.

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Individual banks as in branches had to send it to head office. It was a safety precaution.

So a wealthy person (let's say Donald Trump coming to do a project in T&T) can't wire money and make arrangements with the main office to withdraw a large sum in US currency (providing it's available)?

Offline elan

  • Go On ......Get In There!!!!!!!!
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 11629
  • WaRRioR fOr LiFe!!!!!
    • View Profile
Individual banks as in branches had to send it to head office. It was a safety precaution.

So a wealthy person (let's say Donald Trump coming to do a project in T&T) can't wire money and make arrangements with the main office to withdraw a large sum in US currency (providing it's available)?

Prior arrangements will be made to facilitate such transaction.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Individual banks as in branches had to send it to head office. It was a safety precaution.

So a wealthy person (let's say Donald Trump coming to do a project in T&T) can't wire money and make arrangements with the main office to withdraw a large sum in US currency (providing it's available)?

Prior arrangements will be made to facilitate such transaction.

And how do you or anyone here know that was not the means BH used in order to conduct his business?

Offline elan

  • Go On ......Get In There!!!!!!!!
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 11629
  • WaRRioR fOr LiFe!!!!!
    • View Profile
Individual banks as in branches had to send it to head office. It was a safety precaution.

So a wealthy person (let's say Donald Trump coming to do a project in T&T) can't wire money and make arrangements with the main office to withdraw a large sum in US currency (providing it's available)?

Prior arrangements will be made to facilitate such transaction.

And how do you or anyone here know that was not the means BH used in order to conduct his business?

Exactly 
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Rather than reply to individuals, this is my response to various replies here.

1) Warner admitted on the tape that he told bin Hamman not to bring silver trays as gifts, but to bring cash.
As far as I can discover, legitimate gifts (whether considered bribes or not) are declared. Donations to football projects are also acceptable. I believe that the giving of cash in brown envelopes is not considered acceptable. This debate is not about the ethics of FIFA or the English F.A. It is about stepping outside of the usual practices prescribed by FIFA. The difference is simple and is exhibited in governments and business. You are allowed to accept gifts if they are within a prescribed criteria. If you are unsure, you have to enquire with your relevent employer if the gift is accessible. For those of you who still can't understand this, please give me one verifiable instance where cash passed in secret is an accepted gift in the corporate or political world.

2) Whether the money was brought into the country under diplomatic immunity or not, it certainly didn't leave the country under such status. On one hand people saying Warner was looking after the CFU, but on the other he had no duty of care to remind them they would be illegally trafficking foreign currency if it was not declared. All he had to do was advise bin Hamman to transfer funds directly to their accounts or write them cheques.  For those of you who still can't understand this, please give me one sensible reason why bin Hamman didn't do this and instead went to the trouble of withdrawing 1 million U.S. dollars, flying it halfway around the world, arranging for it to be broken down into 25 piles, placing it in envelopes and taking it to a private room so each individual could collect it.

3) Just so I'm clear, which laws of T&T is it ok to break? As I was under the impression that all laws are supposed to be adhered to, which ones can I tell the police that I'm immune to? As much as you may think I'm fixated on seeing Warner charged for insignificant reasons, I actually believe that the laws are there for a reason. If you don't agree then write to your M.P. In the meantime, while we all bend the laws in some way, we also know that if we're caught we will pay the penalty, be it driving on the bus route, not declaring all income to the Inland Revenue, speeding etc. We know it may be wrong and we'll claim its unfair if we're caught, but we know its the law. Warner travels enough to know you cannot bring US$1 million in cash into another country without declaring it. In my opinion, Warner is not guilty of breaking the law, he is guilty of conspiring to break laws, or at least, failing to report a crime. Maybe this doesn't matter to John Q Public, but a govt minister should not be involved in this in any way, especially if he has a track record of involvement in suspect financial matters. All I've ever insisted on is that this is suitable evidence for Gibbs to investigate this situation. If Gibbs finds laws have been broken, and can gather sufficient evidence, then the courts will decide if individuals are guilty. Everyone here has been demanding the police go after the Big Fish, so lets see them do it. As for the alleged crime being insignificant, remember, AL Capone was only ever convicted of tax evasion.

4) All this lawyer talk about picking holes in statements is perfectly understandable in a court of law when representing clients, and you guys may well win your case based on these arguments. However, here, it is not necessary to defend Warner, bin Hamman or the CFU delegates, because they have that ability themselves. Its interesting for this to be pointed out, but it doesn't need to be an attack (which is how it reads) but a statement based on information and interpretation. We all know that an accused person will have their defence, but the intrinsic question here is: should the police investigate the possibility that a crime has been committed. If we agree with some posters here, we don't need investigators or courts, just a lawyer to argue for the accused and ignore vital questions.

To recap:
Has a law been broken?  Possibly (Non declaration of foreign currency crossing borders)
Is there any kind of evidence that a law may have been broken? Definitely (affidavits from delegates, video footage discussing cash payments in foreign currency)
Is it in the public interest to investigate? Definitely. (Aside from a cabinet minister being involved, the globalisation of the story reflects the integrity of the government)

As someone else stated here "Some people have a problem with simple deductive reasoning"

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
Individual banks as in branches had to send it to head office. It was a safety precaution.

So a wealthy person (let's say Donald Trump coming to do a project in T&T) can't wire money and make arrangements with the main office to withdraw a large sum in US currency (providing it's available)?

Prior arrangements will be made to facilitate such transaction.

And how do you or anyone here know that was not the means BH used in order to conduct his business?

Exactly 

One of the answers to this is that the existence of the cash has been denied.

Officials from nine associations told investigators last month they were given or offered cash gifts. The other 15 denied receiving any cash gifts or refused to meet investigators. Four associations did not respond to invitations to meet investigators—Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Dominica and Montserrat.

A further 11 associations did send officials to meet investigators but denied receiving cash gifts. They were: Barbados, Guyana, British Virgin Islands, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and Grenadines, Trinidad & Tobago and United States Virgin Islands.


Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we just hear Jack talking about cash gifts? (remember Jack has admitted its his voice). So when we see the BVI lady putting her hand up for the "gifts" the others don't want, how is she still going to deny this.

So if bin Hamman did everything legitimately, why did he not just show the wire transfer statements? Maybe its because he wanted to keep the gifts secret because they are against FIFA rules? Well, now the cats out of the bag, he can prove, at least, that he broke no currency laws. But I bet you he won't. Because, in all probability he brought cash.

And while we're talking about denyability, Groden denied cash gifts were offered. As he has not said that he refused the gift, where is the money?

Offline asylumseeker

  • Moderator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18073
    • View Profile
Possession of cash is not a crime, but bringing in over $10, 000 dollars without declaration is a crime.

Steups... this is why I cyah have patience with allyuh yes.  Can you point to anything either on the tape or in fact that shows Jack telling Bin Hamman to not declare the cash?  In fact, yuh know what... doh bother, I done.

The $10,000 figure is the US standard. Entry into Trinidad & Tobago contemplates the filling out of an additional/separate Customs Declaration form for amounts in excess of $20,000 TTD or its equivalent in foreign currency ... on the initial Customs Declaration form provided the passenger,the passenger has to declare whether he/she is in possession of funds exceeding 20K TTD. Where the passenger is in possesion of funds exceeding that threshold, a separate CD form has to be completed. On that form the source of the funds has to be provided.

Assessment of the circumstances is discretionary upon Customs & Excise.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 03:47:58 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2720
  • a/k/a Optimus Prime
    • View Profile
Rather than reply to individuals, this is my response to various replies here.

1) Warner admitted on the tape that he told bin Hamman not to bring silver trays as gifts, but to bring cash.
As far as I can discover, legitimate gifts (whether considered bribes or not) are declared. Donations to football projects are also acceptable. I believe that the giving of cash in brown envelopes is not considered acceptable. This debate is not about the ethics of FIFA or the English F.A. It is about stepping outside of the usual practices prescribed by FIFA. The difference is simple and is exhibited in governments and business. You are allowed to accept gifts if they are within a prescribed criteria. If you are unsure, you have to enquire with your relevent employer if the gift is accessible. For those of you who still can't understand this, please give me one verifiable instance where cash passed in secret is an accepted gift in the corporate or political world.

2) Whether the money was brought into the country under diplomatic immunity or not, it certainly didn't leave the country under such status. On one hand people saying Warner was looking after the CFU, but on the other he had no duty of care to remind them they would be illegally trafficking foreign currency if it was not declared. All he had to do was advise bin Hamman to transfer funds directly to their accounts or write them cheques.  For those of you who still can't understand this, please give me one sensible reason why bin Hamman didn't do this and instead went to the trouble of withdrawing 1 million U.S. dollars, flying it halfway around the world, arranging for it to be broken down into 25 piles, placing it in envelopes and taking it to a private room so each individual could collect it.

3) Just so I'm clear, which laws of T&T is it ok to break? As I was under the impression that all laws are supposed to be adhered to, which ones can I tell the police that I'm immune to? As much as you may think I'm fixated on seeing Warner charged for insignificant reasons, I actually believe that the laws are there for a reason. If you don't agree then write to your M.P. In the meantime, while we all bend the laws in some way, we also know that if we're caught we will pay the penalty, be it driving on the bus route, not declaring all income to the Inland Revenue, speeding etc. We know it may be wrong and we'll claim its unfair if we're caught, but we know its the law. Warner travels enough to know you cannot bring US$1 million in cash into another country without declaring it. In my opinion, Warner is not guilty of breaking the law, he is guilty of conspiring to break laws, or at least, failing to report a crime. Maybe this doesn't matter to John Q Public, but a govt minister should not be involved in this in any way, especially if he has a track record of involvement in suspect financial matters. All I've ever insisted on is that this is suitable evidence for Gibbs to investigate this situation. If Gibbs finds laws have been broken, and can gather sufficient evidence, then the courts will decide if individuals are guilty. Everyone here has been demanding the police go after the Big Fish, so lets see them do it. As for the alleged crime being insignificant, remember, AL Capone was only ever convicted of tax evasion.

4) All this lawyer talk about picking holes in statements is perfectly understandable in a court of law when representing clients, and you guys may well win your case based on these arguments. However, here, it is not necessary to defend Warner, bin Hamman or the CFU delegates, because they have that ability themselves. Its interesting for this to be pointed out, but it doesn't need to be an attack (which is how it reads) but a statement based on information and interpretation. We all know that an accused person will have their defence, but the intrinsic question here is: should the police investigate the possibility that a crime has been committed. If we agree with some posters here, we don't need investigators or courts, just a lawyer to argue for the accused and ignore vital questions.

To recap:
Has a law been broken?  Possibly (Non declaration of foreign currency crossing borders)
Is there any kind of evidence that a law may have been broken? Definitely (affidavits from delegates, video footage discussing cash payments in foreign currency)
Is it in the public interest to investigate? Definitely. (Aside from a cabinet minister being involved, the globalisation of the story reflects the integrity of the government)

As someone else stated here "Some people have a problem with simple deductive reasoning"


1. Wrong!  Unless you invent yuh own tape stop making shit up!  Based on the unedited audio, BH said what he wanted to bring was too much luggage and Warner told him "you don't have to bring nothing" and BH insisted so then JW said "put a value on it and give that to the nations."  He didn't on that tape say "I tell him give cash"  Based on what he says in that footage BH decided on the value and was insistent on giving the CFU member nations a "gift"

2. Trafficking foreign currency?! :rotfl: How do you know who left with what and how they did it?  How do you know what was said in the initial meeting on May 10th?  How do you know that the funds weren't returned to JW in exchange for a wire transfer of said amount to a bank in the member nations jurisdiction?  How do you know they werent't deposited in a local branch of a bank that also does business in their nation?  Or is it that you don't think things are so advanced around the caribbean?  What exactly do you know other than whatever bullshit yuh mind conjuring up?

3. He is guilty you say?  How do you know this for a fact?  Conspiracy?  How so?  So a wealthy person such as BH couldn't possibly wire money and make arrangements with the main office of any of the banking institutions here to withdraw it in US currency once here?  Yuh feel is f**kin barter system still in T&T aought?  Can you prove any of the bullshit you keep trying to claim is reality?

4. Police cannot investigate a crime on a whim.  First there has to be some shred of evidence that a crime was committed.  Unless I mistaken I haven't heard anyone bring forth a legitimate accusation supported by any miniscule piece of evidence that Warner committed or aided in the commission of a crime.

To recap, the police cannot investigate a crime based on a possibility that they have not concluded from being within the environment and having cause for suspicion.  All the connect the dots you trying to do is great but that would be grounds for removal should the police go with that pack ah shit as their resoning for launching an investigation.  The video footage will much sooner exonerate JW from any wrong doing than convict him.  So far you have failed miserably to show where there is evidence enough to launch an inquiry much less prove JW did anything wrong.  Is his hands dirty? Probably but that isn't enough for anything that you suggest.

So if bin Hamman did everything legitimately, why did he not just show the wire transfer statements? Maybe its because he wanted to keep the gifts secret because they are against FIFA rules? Well, now the cats out of the bag, he can prove, at least, that he broke no currency laws. But I bet you he won't. Because, in all probability he brought cash.

You does suffer with yuh brains aought?  FIFA was investigating whether he got the funds to T&T legally?  How would that have helped his case regarding bribery?  You have serious issues oui!

Offline D.H.W

  • Forever Man Utd
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 17937
  • "Luck Favours The Prepared"
    • View Profile
PM refers Warner video to AG
Thursday 13th October, 2011
 
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar has asked the Attorney General for his view on a leaked videotape posted on the website of a British newspaper on Wednesday.
 
The videotape features the voice of Works and Infrastructure Minister Jack Warner speaking at a meeting with heads of the Caribbean Football Union on May 10th and 11th at the Hyatt Regency Hotel. In the video, he is heard telling officials to accept cash gifts from disgraced FIFA Presidential candidate Mohammed Bin Hammam but they were under no obligation to do so.
 
On Wednesday, Mr Warner admitted to the media that it was his voice on the recording but said it was doctored to incriminate him.
 
Prime Minister Persad-Bissessar was questioned about the video on Thursday afternoon. She said: "I have looked at the video and read the transcript and I have referred the matters to the Attorney General to advise whether there is anything to be concerned about."
 
The Prime Minister also said the former Chairman of the Integrity Commission, Dr Eric St Cyr, made the right decision by resigning after he spoke to the media about an investigation into HDC Chairman Jearlene John.
 
Mrs Persad-Bissessar, who was also the subject of statements made by Dr St Cyr earlier this year after it was revealed that she stayed at her friends' home before and after last year's General Election, said: "It is not the first time that there has been concerned with words spoken by him. I think he did the right thing and no further on it."
 
The Prime Minister said she is yet to receive advice from the President on the appointment of Dr St Cyr's replacement.
 
"The process is the President will consult with the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition. That has not yet taken place so it will not be inappropriate for me to speak on it. The President will write me and that consultation will take place."

http://www.ctntworld.com/LocalArticles.aspx?id=33258&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
Youtube Channel



Offline Trinitozbone

  • Sr. Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
    • View Profile
Jack Horner
It is hypocritical to talk about Europeans taking over when Jack has continuously brought European coaches and gave them hefty rewards while he continued to squeeze local coaches especially Cummings on who's back he rode to make his millions after his success in 1989! He traded and used as leverage with the help of Blazer! If he had advanced the progress of our coaches and players the country would have stood with him but he has done just the opposite !the same ones he advanced now turn around and stabbed him in his back! What you do to your brother , you do to yourself? it seems Jack has tied himself up . The whole country and region and indeed the world is looking to see how this one plays out! Our country's democracy and credibility is at stake! I feel it for the PM she does not need this! He needs to do the honourable thing !

Offline MEP

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2402
    • View Profile
Individual banks as in branches had to send it to head office. It was a safety precaution.

So a wealthy person (let's say Donald Trump coming to do a project in T&T) can't wire money and make arrangements with the main office to withdraw a large sum in US currency (providing it's available)?


You asking answers

Offline Football supporter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5209
    • View Profile
PM refers Warner video to AG
Thursday 13th October, 2011
 
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar has asked the Attorney General for his view on a leaked videotape posted on the website of a British newspaper on Wednesday.
 
The videotape features the voice of Works and Infrastructure Minister Jack Warner speaking at a meeting with heads of the Caribbean Football Union on May 10th and 11th at the Hyatt Regency Hotel. In the video, he is heard telling officials to accept cash gifts from disgraced FIFA Presidential candidate Mohammed Bin Hammam but they were under no obligation to do so.
 
On Wednesday, Mr Warner admitted to the media that it was his voice on the recording but said it was doctored to incriminate him.
 
Prime Minister Persad-Bissessar was questioned about the video on Thursday afternoon. She said: "I have looked at the video and read the transcript and I have referred the matters to the Attorney General to advise whether there is anything to be concerned about."
 
The Prime Minister also said the former Chairman of the Integrity Commission, Dr Eric St Cyr, made the right decision by resigning after he spoke to the media about an investigation into HDC Chairman Jearlene John.
 
Mrs Persad-Bissessar, who was also the subject of statements made by Dr St Cyr earlier this year after it was revealed that she stayed at her friends' home before and after last year's General Election, said: "It is not the first time that there has been concerned with words spoken by him. I think he did the right thing and no further on it."
 
The Prime Minister said she is yet to receive advice from the President on the appointment of Dr St Cyr's replacement.
 
"The process is the President will consult with the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition. That has not yet taken place so it will not be inappropriate for me to speak on it. The President will write me and that consultation will take place."

http://www.ctntworld.com/LocalArticles.aspx?id=33258&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Hey Mad.
In the grown up world most of us live in, this means bring cash : JW said "put a value on it and give that to the nations."  He didn't on that tape say "I tell him give cash"  What was he supposed to bring? Beads? Rugs? What? Any moron knows this referred to cash.

And you being, supposedly, versed in the law advised me: Police cannot investigate a crime on a whim.  First there has to be some shred of evidence that a crime was committed.  Unless I mistaken I haven't heard anyone bring forth a legitimate accusation supported by any miniscule piece of evidence that Warner committed or aided in the commission of a crime. But funnily enough, the Prime Minister deems this sufficient to refer this to the Attorney General. Maybe this is just a CYA move, but at least intelligent people are taking it more seriously than you.

For your information, police sometimes actually investigate incidents to decide if laws are broken. At that point they decide whether or not to charge people. All I have ever suggested is that this should be investigated because in my opinion laws appear to be broken.

Most of your other comments are obsolete because, quite simply, you cannot read.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 07:10:51 PM by Football supporter »

Offline maxg

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 6467
    • View Profile
I think BH tell JW "ah go bring some plaque an trophy an ting" and JW say "hoss wha de f**k yuh wha we do wid dat, boy puh ah lil change an make people like yuh eh!"

 :rotfl:
:rotfl: :rotfl:

Offline Flex

  • Administrator
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 18062
  • A Trini 4 Real.
    • View Profile
    • Soca Warriors Online
PM refers Warner videotape for advice.
By Renuka Singh (Express).


BALL IN AG'S COURT

The video and transcripts of Works Minister Jack Warner offering advice on "gifts" from former FIFA presidential hopeful, Qatari Mohamed bin Hammam, to Caribbean Football Union officials have been handed over to the Attorney General.

Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar said yesterday she saw the video and read the transcripts and decided to hand the entire matter over to Attorney General Anand Ramlogan.

"I have referred the matter to the Attorney General to advise whether there is anything to be concerned about," she said. Persad-Bissessar was speaking to reporters after the launch of the National Integrated Business Incubator System (IBIS) at the Hyatt Regency hotel in Port of Spain yesterday.

Warner demitted office as vice president of FIFA over the investigations into the allegations of bribery back in June.

Persad-Bissessar said despite the investigations, Warner attended yesterday's Cabinet meeting.

When asked if Warner still has her full support, the Prime Minister said: "I am awaiting the comments from the Attorney General".

Warner was said to be on his way to Mayaro yesterday afternoon and was unavailable for comment.

In a brief telephone interview yesterday, Ramlogan said he did not want to say anything on the matter just yet. He would only confirm that he was asked to look into the matter and he was doing so.

In the interpretation of the video published by British newspaper The Telegraph which was published on Wednesday, Warner appears to be recorded telling other members of the CFU that they must decide whether to accept the "gifts" of $40,000 (£25,000) each, and urging them to vote for bin Hammam rather than current president Sepp Blatter in the Fifa presidential elections.

The recording was made on May 11, the day after bin Hammam is alleged to have offered the money in individual brown envelopes, and is being used as evidence at a Fifa hearing this week in which 16 officials from the Caribbean Football Union are accused of violating Fifa's code of ethics.

The 16 officials facing investigation this week have each been given the footage of the tape.

On the tape, Warner begins the meeting by asking: "Is there media here?" On being told there are no journalists present, he explains the detail behind bin Hammam's "gifts" but stresses they should not be seen by the outside world to have come from bin Hammam.

The 16—David Hinds, Mark Bob Forde (Barbados), Franka Pickering, Aubrey Liburd (British Virgin Islands), David Frederick (Cayman Islands), Osiris Guzman, Felix Ledesma (Dominican Republic), Colin Klass, Noel Adonis (Guyana) Yves Jean-Bart (Haiti), Anthony Johnson (St Kitts and Nevis) Patrick Mathurin, (St Lucia) Joseph Delves, Ian Hypolite (St Vincent and the Grenadines) Richard Groden (Trinidad and Tobago) and Hillaren Frederick (US Virgin Islands)— are the subjects of an enquiry, to determine whether they acted inappropriately at a special meeting held in T&T on May 10 and 11.

Persad-Bissessar also commended former head of the Integrity Commission, Dr Eric St Cyr, on his decision to resign.

"I think he did the right thing and no further on it," she said, barring any other questions on the matter yesterday.

She said no one has been tipped to replace St Cyr just yet, adding that the President had to consult with her and the Opposition Leader before a decision is made.

"That has not yet taken place so it would not be appropriate for me to speak on it," she said.

The Prime Minister denied any political interference in the Commissioner of Police's decision not to grant the People's National Movement application to hold a public meeting today.

She said the Government's activities have been curtailed by the State of Emergency restrictions too and advised the PNM to hold an indoor meeting.

"Most certainly we (Government) have not been holding any public meetings, you could meet, we have met at our headquarters. You can have indoor meetings, not public meetings," she said.
The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

 

1]; } ?>