Gays Thread.

[ribbit]

@socapro - i heard about that larry sinclair thing a few years back. obama wouldn't be the first in the white house.

[Flex]

Gays tolerated in T&T says survey
By  Yvonne Baboolal (Guardian).

The majority of people in T&T are either tolerant or accepting of homosexuals rather than homophobic. Also, lesbian/bisexual/gay/transgender (LBGT) issues are not as politically dangerous as politicians think. These were the results of a survey, funded by the British High Commission and conducted by the Barbados-based Caribbean Development Research Services Inc (CADRES), of attitudes toward homosexuals in T&T. The results were announced at a press conference at the All Saints Anglican Church, Port-of-Spain, yesterday by CADRES director Peter Wickham.

The information, well received by the local LBGT community, came on the eve of the celebration of International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia today. The day also coincides with the 23rd anniversary of the World Health Organisation’s removal of homosexuality from its list of diseases and mental illnesses. A CADRES press summary said the survey demonstrated 36 per cent of the population could genuinely be described as homophobic and eight per cent were unsure about the issue. “Conversely, this means 56 per cent of Trinbagonians are either tolerant or accepting of homosexuals. The acceptance of homosexuality is greater than the rejection. The survey basically says T&T is not a homophobic country.” Wickham said the acceptance of homosexuality could be because there were a lot of people in T&T with gay friends.

Lynette Seebaran-Suite of the group Aspire, which advocates for sexual and reproductive rights, was at the conference in solidarity with the LBGT community. Wickham said a random selection of 1,080 men and women all over T&T from the age groups 18-30, 31-65 and 65 years and over were interviewed but a full report explaining the methodology and limitations of the survey was unavailable to the media. He said more women than men were interviewed because there were more women in T&T than men and noted that women and younger people were more comfortable with homosexuals. The latest Central Statistical Office census states there are more men than women in T&T. Colin Robinson, of Coalition Advocating for Inclusion of Sexual Orientation (CAISO), said the survey confirmed a suspicion his group had that T&T was not as homophobic as was believed.

Wickham said the survey found that despite the largely positive stance of the majority of citizens, a lot of misunderstanding about homosexuality still existed. The misunderstanding was the general belief that homosexuality was a choice.

The CADRES survey also showed if there were legislative change about homosexuals it would not affect voters and would have no significant negative impact for a political party. Matt Nottingham, political officer at the British High Commission, who attended the conference, said the commission had funded similar studies in Guyana and Barbados because the LBGT issue was of very high priority to the British Government. “The issue of equality and basic human rights is being recognised by the British Government,” he said. Jeanne Roach-Baptiste, assistant lecturer at the Institute for Gender and Development Studies at UWI, said even if the study showed 56 per cent of people in T&T were tolerant or accepting of homosexuals, the remaining percentage against it and unsure was still high. She also noted there was a big difference between the words “tolerant” and “accepting.


Attorney Lynette Seebaran-Suite, centre, chairman of Advocates for Safe Parenthood (Aspire), is introduced to Barbadian Peter Wickham, director of research at Caribbean Development Research Services Inc, by Colin Robinson, head of the Coalition Advocating for Inclusion of Sexual Orientation (CAISO) during a meeting to discuss the survey on public attitudes to homosexuality on International Day against Homophobia. PHOTO: NICOLE DRAYTON

[Toppa]

He said more women than men were interviewed because there were more women in T&T than men and noted that women and younger people were more comfortable with homosexuals. The latest Central Statistical Office census states there are more men than women in T&T.

This alone telling me this 'Survey' may not be very valid or reliable...

And I would like to see the exact wording of the questions being asked...

[sammy]

they interviewed ppl who look like they would be okay with anything.

[just cool]

Dais not news. stueeeppssss!!

i don't know bout today, but when i was ah yute in T&T the place was loaded with gays and no one payed them squat.

as ah matter of fact, growing up in town gave me a birds eye view on how tolerant trinidadians were towards a lot of things. right in the heart of town on calvery hill to be exact the most notorious faggot in the history of T&T lived and thrived in peace, and well protected by the community.

as ah matter of fact, junior (aka betty wright) lived right next to the legendary Dr Rat who was good friends with the gay icon, and could be seen seen "out in the open" sharing ganja with him/her on many occasions of which i was a witness to the fact !!

this individual was not ostracized or scorned, but rather, was well liked and accepted.

there was another well known openly flamboyant gay man by the name of kelvin who went by the alias (sarah vaughn or boiled eggs). he used to sell boiled eggs in the heart of town in a white pigtail bucket, hence the name.

kelvin was ah grown arse man in my parents age group and he was well respected and revered amongst EDR folks. this faggot used to walk wid ah white handle razor and was not afraid to use it, in other words, he had ah real criminal mind as well he should, he was from was from st, john's street lower laventille road surrounded by badjohns.

when kelvin came to town it was like ah fanfare. he was a favorite or a saltfish (that's the colloquial term used for a well liked person in the old days) woman, man and children all flocked to kelvin for eggs and laughs, that was ah funny arse nigga if i ever seen one, just as fuuny as tommy joseph 

kelvin and junior was not the only two, the town was full of openly gay dudes who ppl loved and respect, as ah matter of fact most of them were tailors, seamstress and market men who loved hanging around women.

so my point, from where i stand, i remember when ppl really started paying attention to gays in a negative way, and that was when the rastafarian movement became prevalent in T&T and AIDS started spreading and killing out the faggots,

and yet ppl weren't as perturbed as ppl in other countries, but before that it had gays hanging out in woodford sq @ night selling bamsee and hooking up, and no one batted an eye.

right on duke street by the hall of justice was their hang out spot on the side walk, and no body bothered them or killed them.

so all this talk about trinidad tolerant towards gays is old news! after all we are not jamaicans who have this puritan "old english" church of GOD driven mentality, we are a mainly roman catholic society where anything goes until lent.

[Flex]

Coudray: Gay rights out of proposed gender policy
By Yvonne Baboolal (Guardian).

God still reigns supreme in T&T, according to the Constitution, and gay rights will not be a part of the Government’s draft national policy on gender and development. Minister of Gender, Youth and Child Development Marlene Coudray, finally breaking her silence on the controversy yesterday, said gay rights were not a part of the gender policy which is now before Cabinet, nor were they likely to be.

Coudray was responding to questions on a survey by the Caribbean Development Research Services Inc, which reportedly showed the majority of citizens were either tolerant or accepting of homosexuality and that it was not politically dangerous. Coudray, who was at an open house held by her ministry at the Centre of Excellence, was asked whether gay rights would be included in the gender policy.

“There is nothing in (it) that speaks to any gay rights. There were rumours all over the place that certain things are in the draft that are not,” she said. “The draft policy is before Cabinet and those issues were not part of it, so they are not likely to come up to affect the policy at all at this stage.” Coudray said this decision was not hers, but the unanimous wish of the Inter-Religious Organisation (IRO), which represents 25 different religious organisations, and a large number of other faith-based organisations.

“It really is not up to me,” she said. The ministry held two consultations with the religious groups at Capital Plaza on April 24 and May 3 and, according to IRO head Pundit Harrypersad Maharaj, they sent out a warning in advance to the Government that it would not get support for the legalisation of homosexuality.

Coudray said, “I convened a meeting with faith-based organisations and the IRO and its members and we had a very extensive, open and frank discussion with them. “We had to extend the discourse to two days and we came to terms with what they would like to see (in the gender policy). They reminded us the Constitution is based on the supremacy of God. “So those views are documented to be put forward. Proposals were formulated to be sent to the Finance and General Purposes Committee.”

The F&GP is a subcommittee of Cabinet. The minister said some word on the policy would be coming soon. Asked if a representative of the gay community had met with her, she said no one sought to meet with her as minister. Asked to comment on the  survey, Coudray replied, “We need to know the sample size and all of that.”

She said it took 30-plus years for the gender policy to come into being but it had never before reached the level of Cabinet, which was something to be commended. She said the delay was due to an effort to hear everyone’s views. Maharaj, noting that religious groups represented a significant proportion of the population, said the argument put forward was that gender, according to religious beliefs, constituted male and female, not homosexuals or other.

“We all unanimously agreed that from time immemorial humans were created as male and female, not homosexuals and all these kinds of things.” Maharaj said Leela Ramdeen, of the Catholic Commission for Social Justice, who was at the consultation with the minister, referred to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court which declared that the term gender referred only to the two sexes of male and female.

Maharaj said while there might be objections to the religious community’s position, its members are holding to it very firmly. “We can’t tell people how to live their lives but we are saying it must not become lawful. “If the Government ever intends to legalise same-sex marriages in T&T, we are sending out a warning in advance it will not get the support of the religious community.”

[kounty]

Coudray: Gay rights out of proposed gender policy
By Yvonne Baboolal (Guardian).

Coudray said, “I convened a meeting with faith-based organisations and the IRO and its members and we had a very extensive, open and frank discussion with them. ........ Asked if a representative of the gay community had met with her, she said no one sought to meet with her as minister.

[weary1969]

By John Newland, Staff Writer, NBC News
Michelle Obama confronted a gay-rights protester who heckled her at a Democratic fundraiser in Washington on Tuesday, offering to give her the microphone and leave, before the crowd cheered for the first lady to stay.

Obama was 12 minutes into a planned 20-minute speech at a couple’s home when a woman standing at the front of the small crowd interrupted, demanding that President Barack Obama sign an executive order on gay rights.

“One of the things I don’t do well is this,” the first lady said before walking down from the lectern and approaching the protester, according to a pool reporter covering the event.

Obama told the woman that people gathered in the backyard tent could "listen to me or you can take the mic, but I'm leaving,” before telling the crowd, “You all decide. You have one choice.”

At that, the crowd began chanting for Obama to stay as one woman told the protester, “You need to leave.”

The woman was escorted out, shouting that she was a “lesbian looking for federal equality before I die.”

Obama then returned to the lectern and finished her speech, getting loud applause as she did.

Those in attendance, apparently including the protester, had paid $500 to $10,000 for tickets to the event, which was held at the home of power couple Karen Dixon and Nan Schaffer.

The heckler was identified as Ellen Sturtz, an activist with the GetEQUAL campaign group, which campaigns for lesbian and gay rights, by several media.

Sturtz told The Washington Post that she was surprised by the first lady's actions.

“She came right down in my face,” Sturtz said. “I was taken aback.”

[1-868]

Chirlane McCray: From Gay Trailblazer to Politician's Wife

http://www.essence.com/2013/05/09/politicians-wife-chirlane-mccray/

In 1979 Chirlane McCray was a lesbian, out loud and proud. She said so herself, in a groundbreaking essay in ESSENCE simply called "I Am a Lesbian." That article was a revelation, perhaps the first time a Black gay woman had spoken so openly and honestly about her sexuality in a Black magazine. "I discovered my preference for women early," she wrote, "before getting locked into a traditional marriage."

Now, 34 years later, the same Chirlane McCray, 58, is happily immersed in a "traditional marriage." Her husband, Bill de Blasio, is running in one of the most fiercely contested Democratic mayoral primaries in decades, and his wife of 19 years and mother of their two teenage children is front and center in his campaign as strategist, confidante and political partner.

So how did this self-possessed lesbian turn into a seemingly classic political wife? McCray returns "home" to the pages of ESSENCE, and the audience who embraced her so many years ago, to talk about life's unexpected twists and turns, the fluidity of love, dirty politics and her 180-degree turn.


ESSENCE: Why did you write that first essay?

CHIRLANE McCRAY: Because in 1979, I thought it important to dispel the myth that there are no gay Black people, that Black people just didn't do that sort of thing. That article was my way of telling Black women across the country, "You are not alone."

ESSENCE: How was it received?

McCRAY: I remember how excited everyone was and how I was celebrated. I'm proud that at such a young age I was brave enough to go to ESSENCE and fight to write that article. I felt positive about what I'd done.

ESSENCE: How did you first meet Bill?

McCRAY: In 1991 I was working in the press office at the [NYC] Commission on Human Rights and was sent over to City Hall. I was wearing West African–inspired clothing and a nose ring, and Bill says he had the love-at-first-sight experience. I did note what a good-looking guy he was and that he was funny and smart and made other people laugh.

ESSENCE: Were you worried about him being a man—and White?

McCRAY: All I could think about was, He's six years younger than me!

ESSENCE: So how did you go from being a lesbian to falling in love with a man?

McCRAY: By putting aside the assumptions I had about the form and package my love would come in. By letting myself be as free as I felt when I went natural.

ESSENCE: Still, was it strange being with a man, after so long?

McCRAY: I came out at 17. I hadn't really dated any men. I thought, Whoa, what is this? But I also didn't think, Oh, now I'm attracted to men. I was attracted to Bill. He felt like the perfect person for me. For two people who look so different, we have a lot in common. We are a very conventional, unconventional couple.

ESSENCE: How did you tell Bill about your past?

McCRAY: Other people told him in the beginning. Then at some point I gave him the article and said, "Look, this is who I am and you should read this." It shook him up. But he didn't show it. He was cool about it.

ESSENCE: Do you consider yourself bisexual?

McCRAY: I am more than just a label. Why are people so driven to labeling where we fall on the sexual spectrum? Labels put people in boxes, and those boxes are shaped like coffins. Finding the right person can be so hard that often, when a person finally finds someone she or he is comfortable with, she or he just makes it work. As my friend Vanessa says, "It's not whom you love; it's that you love."

ESSENCE: Are you still attracted to women?

McCRAY: I'm married, I'm monogamous, but I'm not dead and [laughs] Bill isn't either. I know my husband loves me fiercely and passionately. I know he supports me and will always stand up for me.

ESSENCE: How did you feel when your ESSENCE article from 1979 was leaked online and then the New York Post printed a cartoon of you and your husband in bed?

McCRAY: I thought the article would have [come out] sooner or later. I was rather dismissive of the whole thing. But then that cartoon! What the New York Post did was just really nasty. It was racist, ignorant and crude.

ESSENCE: If Bill gets elected, what kind of first lady of New York will you be—a Michelle Obama?

McCRAY: It's too early to say what I will work on, but I'll be my own person. I'd like to be out in the city every day listening to what people are saying, and asking about what they need. I'd like to inspire others by doing as much as I can to help people who are trying to make a better life for themselves and others.

[Flex]

‘They should have rights as other people have’
By Anna Ramdass (Express).

PRIEST BATS FOR GAYS

A Catholic priest has come out in support of the gay community, saying their rights, including the right to love whomever they want, should be included in the Constitution.

Dr Fr Stephen Geofroy captured the attention of the audience with his comments during consultation on the draft Constitution at the University of the West Indies Sport and Physical Education Centre, St Augustine, on Monday evening.

Geofroy said the matter should not be debated further and instead Government should be embracing of all its people.

“Now on the issue of sexual orientation being subject to further national discussion...discussion about what? Aren’t LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender), aren’t they not humans still, yes or no?” said Geofroy.

“Yes? Then they should have rights as other people have,” he continued as he received loud applause from the packed hall.

Geofroy said there was no debate on whether gays are people or not as they have expressed themselves clearly that they are part and parcel of this country’s culture.

“We’ve come over a long history of slavery and indentureship and now it is time to break the many things that denigrate the person,” said Geofroy.

“This is certainly one of the things we have to do and we have to be very decisive of it.”

Geofroy said there has been discrimination on the basis of race, colour and class in this country.

“...I don’t see the difference with sexual orientation. We are citizens of a country and people have the right to love who they want irrespective,” said Geofroy .

He said to continue discussing the issue at a national level without taking a decision was to go the way of other countries such as Nigeria and Uganda as part of a political agenda.

“I think we should avoid that like the plague,” he said.

Geofroy said the rights of a minority should not be suffered because of the majority as the bill of rights speaks to upholding the dignity of all.

“We do not belong to a theocracy, neither are we in a religious oligarchy where people impose their beliefs on others,” said Geofroy.

He said if it was this way then moves would be made to criminalise adultery, masturbation and the use of condoms.

“Then all of these things should be looked at and in my tradition I would say first, they are all sins so I think we have to be very careful on human rights and our rights to our own belief but not the right to impose it on the rest of the population,” he said.

The draft Constitution recommends that the Chapter on Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms should not be altered and the issue of sexual orientation and human rights should be made the subject of further national discussion and public education.

Executive director of the Coalition Advocating for Inclusion of Sexual Orientation (CAISO), Colin Robinson, who spoke before Geofroy, expressed his disappointment that the draft Constitution did not offer equal protection and rights to persons who are gay.

Robinson said he felt ashamed when reading the draft Constitution which states there should be further discussion on the issue.

“Shame that my nation’s leading lights would miss that the point of a Constitution is to protect people from others. That the lack of consensus about my rights is the most compelling reason why they need protection. Shame that the conclusion of my nation’s constitutional reformers is that all I am worth is further national discussion, and that I will only merit constitutional protection when I don’t need it as much.

Heartbreak that you got it so clearly; and you wouldn’t do anything about it. And I wonder if I feel such shame, what do young LGBT people in our nation with much less resilience and a less-loving family than me feel reading your report,” he continued.

Robinson called on the commissioners, among them Legal Affairs Minister Prakash Ramadhar, to ensure that protection for sexual orientation and gender be added to the Constitution’s Bill of Rights.

Speaking to the Express yesterday by phone, Robinson said he was not surprised by Geofroy’s comments.
“He’s a real Catholic...I was encouraged, I wasn’t surprised,” he said.

He said it was not the first time someone of the Catholic faith has expressed such views.

Robinson said there was a small group of Catholics and Anglican clergy members as well as a Hindu pandita who offer “pastoral care” to persons from the gay community and give them the opportunity to worship.

Robinson said Trinidad and Tobago has reached a place where the “glass is half full” and political leadership is required to fill that glass and ensure rights for all.

CAISO staff attorney Richie Maitland pointed out during the consultation that a research poll conducted by the Caribbean Development Research Services of Barbados found that 56 per cent of this country’s population accepted gays.

He said ten years ago, under the People’s National Movement (PNM) regime, it was stated in the draft gender policy that the issue of gay rights should be discussed further and the same is being said today.

“I just wonder how long this will take, how long we will be discussing this matter?” he asked, adding that there needs to be no more political cowardice in ensuring constitutional protection for the LGBT community.

[Sam]

‘They should have rights as other people have’
By Anna Ramdass (Express).

PRIEST BATS FOR GAYS

A Catholic priest has come out in support of the gay community, saying their rights, including the right to love whomever they want, should be included in the Constitution.

Dr Fr Stephen Geofroy captured the attention of the audience with his comments during consultation on the draft Constitution at the University of the West Indies Sport and Physical Education Centre, St Augustine, on Monday evening.

Geofroy said the matter should not be debated further and instead Government should be embracing of all its people.

“Now on the issue of sexual orientation being subject to further national discussion...discussion about what? Aren’t LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender), aren’t they not humans still, yes or no?” said Geofroy.

“Yes? Then they should have rights as other people have,” he continued as he received loud applause from the packed hall.

Geofroy said there was no debate on whether gays are people or not as they have expressed themselves clearly that they are part and parcel of this country’s culture.

“We’ve come over a long history of slavery and indentureship and now it is time to break the many things that denigrate the person,” said Geofroy.

“This is certainly one of the things we have to do and we have to be very decisive of it.”

Geofroy said there has been discrimination on the basis of race, colour and class in this country.

“...I don’t see the difference with sexual orientation. We are citizens of a country and people have the right to love who they want irrespective,” said Geofroy .

He said to continue discussing the issue at a national level without taking a decision was to go the way of other countries such as Nigeria and Uganda as part of a political agenda.

“I think we should avoid that like the plague,” he said.

Geofroy said the rights of a minority should not be suffered because of the majority as the bill of rights speaks to upholding the dignity of all.

“We do not belong to a theocracy, neither are we in a religious oligarchy where people impose their beliefs on others,” said Geofroy.

He said if it was this way then moves would be made to criminalise adultery, masturbation and the use of condoms.

“Then all of these things should be looked at and in my tradition I would say first, they are all sins so I think we have to be very careful on human rights and our rights to our own belief but not the right to impose it on the rest of the population,” he said.

The draft Constitution recommends that the Chapter on Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms should not be altered and the issue of sexual orientation and human rights should be made the subject of further national discussion and public education.

Executive director of the Coalition Advocating for Inclusion of Sexual Orientation (CAISO), Colin Robinson, who spoke before Geofroy, expressed his disappointment that the draft Constitution did not offer equal protection and rights to persons who are gay.

Robinson said he felt ashamed when reading the draft Constitution which states there should be further discussion on the issue.

“Shame that my nation’s leading lights would miss that the point of a Constitution is to protect people from others. That the lack of consensus about my rights is the most compelling reason why they need protection. Shame that the conclusion of my nation’s constitutional reformers is that all I am worth is further national discussion, and that I will only merit constitutional protection when I don’t need it as much.

Heartbreak that you got it so clearly; and you wouldn’t do anything about it. And I wonder if I feel such shame, what do young LGBT people in our nation with much less resilience and a less-loving family than me feel reading your report,” he continued.

Robinson called on the commissioners, among them Legal Affairs Minister Prakash Ramadhar, to ensure that protection for sexual orientation and gender be added to the Constitution’s Bill of Rights.

Speaking to the Express yesterday by phone, Robinson said he was not surprised by Geofroy’s comments.
“He’s a real Catholic...I was encouraged, I wasn’t surprised,” he said.

He said it was not the first time someone of the Catholic faith has expressed such views.

Robinson said there was a small group of Catholics and Anglican clergy members as well as a Hindu pandita who offer “pastoral care” to persons from the gay community and give them the opportunity to worship.

Robinson said Trinidad and Tobago has reached a place where the “glass is half full” and political leadership is required to fill that glass and ensure rights for all.

CAISO staff attorney Richie Maitland pointed out during the consultation that a research poll conducted by the Caribbean Development Research Services of Barbados found that 56 per cent of this country’s population accepted gays.

He said ten years ago, under the People’s National Movement (PNM) regime, it was stated in the draft gender policy that the issue of gay rights should be discussed further and the same is being said today.

“I just wonder how long this will take, how long we will be discussing this matter?” he asked, adding that there needs to be no more political cowardice in ensuring constitutional protection for the LGBT community.

A Christian priest, a Rabbi and Catholic priest were in a boat and saw some young boys drowning, the Christian priest says "let save those kids", the Rabbi says "f00ck them" and the Catholic priest say "we have time".

[Socapro]

President Museveni Agrees to Sign Tough Anti-gay Measure
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/n5ln0yBViBM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/n5ln0yBViBM</a>

The bill was first introduced in 2009 and initially proposed a death sentence for homosexual acts, but was amended to prescribe jail terms and life for what it called aggravated homosexuality. The anti-homosexuality bill was passed by the Ugandan parliament in December. Homosexuality is taboo in African countries and illegal in 37 countries. Activists say few Africans are openly gay, fearing imprisonment, violence and loss of their jobs.

Uganda signs anti-gay law
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/t67gT44f71M" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/t67gT44f71M</a>

News: Ugandan president signs anti-gay law AFP Aljazeera.com ‎- 8 hours ago Uganda's president has signed a controversial anti-gay bill that allows harsh penalties for "homosexual offences", calling them "mercenaries".


Uganda's Anti-gay Bill Signed into Law
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/lncR72rfUco" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/lncR72rfUco</a>

President Museveni defying significant international pressure to sign tough anti-homosexuality measures into law. People found guilty of practicing so-called 'aggravated homosexuality' can now be handed a lifetime jail sentence and first time offenders can be punished with 14 years in jail.


Museveni Hits Back at the West over Anti-Gay Law
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/s7MALJzvFZk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/s7MALJzvFZk</a>

Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni has hit back at Western nations over their threats to cut ties with the country over a bill criminalising homosexuality. Recently U.S. President Barack Obama condemned the proposed move by Uganda's President, warning that such a move would alter US relations with Uganda.Michael Baleke has this report from Kampala.

[Deeks]

If all these African leaders think that homsexuality is the cause of their countries' problem, then they have real issues. How long this man running Uganda. Is time for him to go.

[Bitter]

Homosexuality threatens the arts, fuels crime—Clarke
Published: Tuesday, February 25, 2014
Yvonne Baboolal
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-02-25/homosexuality-threatens-arts-fuels-crime%E2%80%94clarke

Homosexuality is not only threatening the arts but is used to indoctrinate gang members, says artist LeRoy Clarke. The T&T Guardian asked Clarke to elaborate on the comment he made last week at his book launch which shocked and outraged some of his fellow artists, members of the gay community and others. In a phone interview yesterday, Clarke related homosexuality to the increase in crime, saying young men are usually indoctrinated into gangs with homosexuality and because of the violation of their manhood use the gun as a symbol of their masculinity.
 
He added: “It is brought about by power bases that manipulate the principles that hold our heritage for their own advantage. “Something is happening with the gender paradigm today. We had guidelines where we looked at certain types of conduct as abominations. We took it from the scriptures.” The Bible, he added, was one of those and verses clearly refer to homosexuality, men with men and women with women, as “unnatural” and an abomination. “Today, the word abomination does not have the same tone. People indulge abominations, accede to them,” Clarke lamented. “At 73, I can say the world is no longer mine,” he said.
 
Asked exactly what he meant by saying homosexuality was threatening the arts, Clarke said with the exception of the sailor and maybe the midnight robber, there were no longer any definitely male costumes in Carnival, not even in portrayals of the devil. “An effeminating power has taken over the costumes and even the rhythm of the music. Carnival is no longer male and female.

“This is a very serious matter. We are dealing with a problem that is threatening our heritage. Fifty, 60 years ago what is happening now was not prevalent. I grew up in Gonzales.

“The conversion is threatening identity. It had made it into a ‘oneish’ kind of place,” he added. Clarke said he had been hearing rumours about the reactions to his comment, expected to be misunderstood and did not expect the comment to be popular. “But,” he said, “I don’t feel threatened. I believe in God.”
 
Asked which god he believed in, since he was an Orisha elder, Clarke replied: “I started off as Anglican. I am an Orisha elder now. “But I have gone even beyond that. I do believe in a God I don’t know. All I know is I have God-yearning and it is to that I yield.” Clarke said he was not waging war on anybody but was speaking about something that made people uncomfortable but others were afraid to talk about it. He said homosexuality was threatening not only the arts but the dream of becoming a society. There was a need to have discussions like these without animosity, he said. “Why is it we are afraid to speak? I come out (sic) and suddenly I am a bad fella. “Somebody needs to point out that something is definitely off-balance,” he added.
 
‘Retrograde thinking’
Writer Monique Roffey said she had been deeply affected by Clarke’s comment. She said: “It is not what I would call progressive. It shows a lack of connection with modern thinking. if you consider the UK where gays were granted rights to marry. “It shows lack of awareness, compassion, humanity. This is such a big error of judgment. “It is very surprising because it is a very intolerant thing to say about gay people, about a so-called minority who fought long and hard for equal rights. This feels really retrograde.” The Bible, she pointed out, is 3,000 years old.

On her own sexuality, Roffey said: “I am not lesbian. I am queer.”  Her erotic life is described in the award-winning Trinidad-born British writer’s memoir, With the Kisses of his Mouth.

In it she tells of a sexual odyssey she embarked upon after a dramatic breakup, which led her “into the worlds of casual-sex dating sites, western neo-tantra, Native American neo-shamanic sacred sex practices... the famous swingers’ resort of Cap D’Agde, and to a cave in the south of France where Mary Magdalene is said to have escaped and prayed for 30 years after the death of Christ. “Some light BDSM (bondage, discipline, dominance, submission, sadism), some sex magick, some five-rhythms dancing and a couple of Bronze Age Stone circles also feature.”

Roffey said, as reflected in her memoir, she struggled to find a place for herself in the world outside the mainstream, challenging the heterosexual norm. “If you are different to mainstream, you face constant criticism. This is the kind of comment associated with the conservative mainstream. There is no space on the planet for that kind of thinking,” she added.
 
‘Discrimination is colonial’
If Clarke was speaking on behalf of artists, he was not speaking for artist/writer Christopher Cozier, who has been internationally recognised with a 2014 Prince Claus Fund Award. “It is deeply ironic that he has built his career on conversations about recognising the value of people of African descent and discriminatory colonial laws. “Laws discriminating against gays are also colonial,” Cozier said. Nazi Germany under Hitler discriminated against Jews, the physically challenged and gays, he said. And so did the apartheid system in South Africa under white rule.
Cozier said he was not gay but knew a lot of gay people and young people reading Clarke’s comments may wonder what were their prospects in a place like T&T. “It’s sad when he and people like Pastor Cuffie say the same thing,” he said. Told the Bible denounced homosexuality, Cozier replied: “I am not into that kind of thing.”
 
‘Attention-seeking babblings’
Founder/director of the Bocas Lit Fest Marina Salandy-Brown said: “What nonsense. The ruination of the arts here is the lack of a proper arts policy for the country that has been articulated and communicated to the people, the lack of planning, infrastructure and public education.  “The poverty of the arts discourse is at the heart of the problem and these attention-seeking babblings from someone who should know better are just proof of that.” Carnival bandleader and designer Brian MacFarlane said: “It is unfortunate that Mr Clarke has chosen to make this comment. I have always had great respect for him and his work. “People from all walks of life, be it colour, creed, race or sexual orientation, have contributed to the development of culture in all its forms in T&T and continue to do so.” Actor and 3Canal member Wendell Manwarren said he had no comment to make on anything Leroy Clarke said.

[Bakes]

Early onset dementia.

[Deeks]

Leroy, of all people.

[Sam]

Great work by the Ugandan president !!!

Maybe not the death sentence but I agree to not support this Gay shit, that blights your country.

Man and Woman can reproduce, gays can't. Its simple, even animals knows this.

Yuh ever see a father lion f00cking another father lion.

Humans is disgusting.

We living in sodom and gomorrah.

A big hard stones man acting like a blasted female stabbing only shit.

Shit stabbers.

[ribbit]

Putin say if they took a vote world-wide about homos pushing queer culture on minors, 90% would be against it. Yet all de Olympics coverage have de token gay/lesbian because of de gay lobby. Look a DJ here in Toronto who did run his mouth on all kind of thing make an anti-gay joke and he out of a job. Democracy and homos doh mix.

[Tiresais]

Great work by the Ugandan president !!!

Maybe not the death sentence but I agree to not support this Gay shit, that blights your country.

Man and Woman can reproduce, gays can't. Its simple, even animals knows this.

Yuh ever see a father lion f00cking another father lion.

Humans is disgusting.

We living in sodom and gomorrah.

A big hard stones man acting like a blasted female stabbing only shit.

Shit stabbers.

The sheer level of stupidity is overwhelming here, lets wade through shit creek

that blights your country.

Why?

Man and Woman can reproduce, gays can't.

Are those who are infertile also morally inferior in your opinion? What about those who choose not to reproduce?

Its simple, even animals knows this.

Yuh ever see a father lion f00cking another father lion.

Erm.. Yes. Homosexuality is widely observed in the animal kingdom, why don't you educate yourself - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals#Lions

We living in sodom and gomorrah.

Really? Sodom's major crime seems to be more inhospitality than homosexuality, although this is all interpretation. - http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/sodom.html

A big hard stones man acting like a blasted female stabbing only shit.

Shit stabbers.

You're against anal sex in totality I imagine? Any particular reason? Also, are you so insecure about your own masculinity that the thought of dudes sexing up other dudes sets off alarms in your head?

I recommend you challenge your own opinions, check out this video about debunking the top 5 arguments against Gay Marriage, for example- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmFLe_CmLBw .

Your positions are at best bigoted, because you are actively discriminating against people who have no choice over whom they find sexually attractive. Given your comments I'll go ahead and infer that you're a Christian, in which case you might find it interesting to note that Jesus is not attributed to have said anything about homosexuality in the bible - clearly it wasn't a topic interesting or important enough for him to be quoted on.

Instead, I suggest some other bible verses for you to dwell on;

Exodus 23:4-5 -If thou meet thine enemy's ox or his ass going astray, thou shalt surely bring it back to him again.  If thou see the ass of him that hateth thee lying under his burden, and wouldest forbear to help him, thou shalt surely help with him.
Exodus 23:9 and Deuteronomy 10:19- Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Exodus 25:7 - Ye shall not therefore oppress one another; but thou shalt fear thy God:for I am the LORD your God.
Psalms 34:13-14 - Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile. Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.
Psalms 38:7 - Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
Proverbs 10:12 - "Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins."

[Pastor Stuart]

Please leave Jesus and God name out of your pathetic argument. As a moderator you should be setting an example not defending Gays.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination - King James Bible (Leviticus 18:22)

"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin - New Living Translation

"'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable - New International Version

You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination - American King James Version

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads - New International Version

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them - King James Bible

[elan]

I saw a trailer for a documentary which claims that American missionaries in Uganda has been lobbying the government in criminalizing homosexuality.

"God Loves Uganda" is the name.

[elan]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/m3_hKv4pEM4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/m3_hKv4pEM4</a>

[Tiresais]

Please leave Jesus and God name out of your pathetic argument. As a moderator you should be setting an example not defending Gays.

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination - King James Bible (Leviticus 18:22)

"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin - New Living Translation

"'Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable - New International Version

You shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination - American King James Version

"'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads - New International Version

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them - King James Bible

None of which said or attributed to Jesus, all Old Testament, which was my point there. Clearly the Bible is against homosexuality, as it is against eating shellfish ("But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is detestable to you." Leviticus 11:10) and a whole host of other random and stupid things.

My example is not to discriminate, if you lack the moral decency to follow that then the fault lies in you sir. If your problem with homosexuality lies with the bible, then I expect, to be morally and logically consistent, you don't eat crab, it's ok to force your wife/mistress/daughter to get raped to death by an angry mob instead of a man/angel (Genesis 9:, working on the day of the Sabbath (even collecting sticks) is punishable by death (Exodus 35:2).

Basically there are too many ridiculous rules to state, suffice to say it's highly unlikely you observe all 613 commandments.

[Pastor Stuart]

Tiresais, I am not going to go back and forth with this topic.

Let them be who they are.

Just do not expect me to support this nonesense.

It would be interesting to see all the people who supports this that it comes in their lives in some form. Then you would sing a different song.

The LORD [is] longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] - Numbers 14:18 (Generational Curses).

[congo]

Trinidad and Tobago has no gay people. I have never met a gay person in my life in Trinidad. What I have met are people who I suspect to be gay. People who upon getting to know them soon start crossing the line with their insinuations and advances. I have traveled all over the world and I have seen gay people living peaceful and productive lives raising families etc. In Trinidad, the gay community loves to remain hidden but come carnival Monday and Tuesday you can see the majority and the front runners of the community in the tiniest of pum pum shorts wining down low on the ground like if it's some sort of pride parade. A couple years ago someone organised a march to advance gay rights in the country. Only 4 people showed up for the march. In Trinidad there are a lot of down low homosexuals. A lot of them appear to have families and appear to be straight. They also hold significant power in the public and private sectors.

[Tiresais]

Tiresais, I am not going to go back and forth with this topic.

Let them be who they are.

Just do not expect me to support this nonesense.

It would be interesting to see all the people who supports this that it comes in their lives in some form. Then you would sing a different song.

The LORD [is] longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] - Numbers 14:18 (Generational Curses).

You'll quote the anti-gay text, but when it prices slaves to be sold you're all silent - you're a hypocrite. Tell me what's the conversion rate on a shekle these days Pastor? How much does the bible think I should demand for my slaves?

I have a number of gay friends - it affects me not, and I support their right to love whomever they love. Your passage condones punishing the child for the sins of the father - thanks for making my point about its immorality for me.

[Deeks]

So let me ask the forum. If any of your children turn out to be "GAY", what allyuh go do?

[pecan]

Since people quoting the Bible, I will follow suit on quoting the bible, but for marriage, not homosexuality ...
 
I am all for Traditional Marriage as defined in the bible. After all, if it in the Bible, it must be true .. unless of course you decided to conveniently use Mosaic Law to explain away the inconvenient aspects of the bible you chose to ignore.

Steups ...

[pecan]

So let me ask the forum. If any of your children turn out to be "GAY", what allyuh go do?

probably stone dem ... I think that is allowed somewhere in the Bible.

[pecan]

Tiresais, I am not going to go back and forth with this topic.

Let them be who they are.

Just do not expect me to support this nonesense.

It would be interesting to see all the people who supports this that it comes in their lives in some form. Then you would sing a different song.

The LORD [is] longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] - Numbers 14:18 (Generational Curses).

You'll quote the anti-gay text, but when it prices slaves to be sold you're all silent - you're a hypocrite. Tell me what's the conversion rate on a shekle these days Pastor? How much does the bible think I should demand for my slaves?

well is 50 shekels for a rape victim. I would think a slave is worth at least twice that.