Dallas Cup Thread

[jai john]

I read somewhere that we are sending a team, obviously unprepared as this decision was short in coming , to take part in the Dallss cup. How does this help our football and psychological development ? If we are unprepared for a test then the test in itself will show that and we are and would be of  little benefit.
I say again if some of these planners were involved in the sport of boxing many young athletes would get themselves killed in the ring !
All I see this doing is demoralising the next generation of young footballers by mismatching them at too early an age.
would you let your 6 year old play aginst 16 year olds in a tournament ? I think not !
Well putting our soca babes in arms against teams of the same age but far greater development is just about pretty much the same thing.
Teams plan years in advance for this tournament. have we done so or are we just taking advantage of Alvin´s contact with the Dallas Cup tournament, to run ah side leh we see ?

[jai john]

i just read a post game report where Ron said the team was underprepared because they only came together December 2005 while the Haiti team had been together for a year. Yet we agree to take part in another  tournament for which we have not prepared adequately

Get the picture folks ? ...everyone knows that the barn door was open after the horse has bolted ...

none so blind as those who will not see !

[Flex]

At this point in time the Dallas Cup will be great.... we cannot only think about winning these sort of things, we have to build and start somewhere. If this was a World Qualifier then I would agree with you, but its a friendly tournament and the team is in training for preparations for the tour. I am not saying we should go there and disgrace ourselves, but the Dallas Cup will do some good, lets hope we can be consistent at these sort of prep. Playing internationally, away from T&T and against good opposition is always welcomed. In the end though, all this will help our team prepare well.

About Ron's comments, if Haiti was in training for one year, why didn't he scout them, also, was Dominica in training for one year. Forget how we played against them, the point is and the record shows we tie them 1-1, they held on and we were at home, so this is not good at all. We also had a very deep team with 8 overseas players in it and a decent bench. As Lincoln said our local coaches must up their knowledge if we are to progress. And our players must fix their attitudes and take the game more seriously, we need to develop a fighting habit and learn to work off the ball too.

[truetrini]

So jes how yuh does prepare a team if they doh get to play togehter for a while and get exposure at all different levels and circumstances?

Keep dem home and let dem train in de stadium with no match practice?
What is yuh suggestion jai john?

La Forest have to go.

This is de best preparation we had for a while and yet he making excuses about Trini mentality.

While I feel he eh lie...I feel he had dat attitude and it pass on to his team.

Contrast him to Beenie.

Beenie had the team feeling dat dey could beat people but still have de gumption and sense to know dat no team soft.

Ok Ron, we take de Dominicans for granted..and you and de team eh learn nutten fuh de Haiti game?

Steups..haulyuh arse!

Resign and doh say shit about it up to de powers dat be.

[KND2]

playing in any tournament is a good thing, win lose or draw, I do not expect Trini to do that well in this tournament.

Some of these club team in the US have big youths compared to the average trini youths so physically we might get rough up.

The experience will be invaluable because at least the players we see the standard from all over the world so they will know how good they need to improve to compete

[Big Magician]

nah jai john....cant agree with you here.....this is good.....and i will add this.....all de so called "big players"(and i know them all) on this team will get to see what real "big players'" look like.....and how hard they work....how determined and commited they are....that will be a lesson we wont be able to teach them.....so all the best for them....learn well boys,....

[Observer]

I read somewhere that we are sending a team, obviously unprepared as this decision was short in coming , to take part in the Dallss cup. How does this help our football and psychological development ? If we are unprepared for a test then the test in itself will show that and we are and would be of  little benefit.
I say again if some of these planners were involved in the sport of boxing many young athletes would get themselves killed in the ring !
All I see this doing is demoralising the next generation of young footballers by mismatching them at too early an age.
would you let your 6 year old play aginst 16 year olds in a tournament ? I think not !
Well putting our soca babes in arms against teams of the same age but far greater development is just about pretty much the same thing.
Teams plan years in advance for this tournament. have we done so or are we just taking advantage of Alvin´s contact with the Dallas Cup tournament, to run ah side leh we see ?

You have made some very good points, with the exception of 6 year olds playing against 16 years old.
It all depends on the approach. Most National Youth teams have about 4-5 days to prepare for a Tournamnet (with only a couple of countries being and exception, USA, Costa Rica etc) Now many countries are better prepared because the clubs train the players on a daily basis in a very professional environment. So when they gather the players they are fit and have a good general tactical / technical foundation.

Now how you approach the tournament and what you wish to achieve is the next step. T&T in the Dallas cup will meet mainly club teams of the same age. The staff should lay down realistic goals and expectations for the players and the squad. What the tournament will give them is a measuring stick for their individual abilities in relation to players of the same age from a variety of back grounds. It will also be a measuring stick for the team. Young players do not have a realistic view of the standard of top players in their age group, from outside T&T. After all they feel they are the best because they are the best in T&T. Games against top International Teams and Tournaments like these can help create and understanding of what is required to play at this level. The players can learn from it, go home and dedicate themselves to reach that level, or simply come to the realization that they are not good enough to play at that level.

Lets be honest we all feel we could play ball, until we bounce up someone who has played at the highest level and our jaw drops in admiration. Oh sorry maybe that was just me  

[Big Magician]

thank you observer....like yuh know yuh ting boy....lol

[palos]

I read somewhere that we are sending a team, obviously unprepared as this decision was short in coming , to take part in the Dallss cup. How does this help our football and psychological development ? If we are unprepared for a test then the test in itself will show that and we are and would be of  little benefit.
I say again if some of these planners were involved in the sport of boxing many young athletes would get themselves killed in the ring !
All I see this doing is demoralising the next generation of young footballers by mismatching them at too early an age.
would you let your 6 year old play aginst 16 year olds in a tournament ? I think not !
Well putting our soca babes in arms against teams of the same age but far greater development is just about pretty much the same thing.
Teams plan years in advance for this tournament. have we done so or are we just taking advantage of Alvin´s contact with the Dallas Cup tournament, to run ah side leh we see ?

If I hear you correctly, maybe we shouldn't be goin World Cup either.  Ah mean....after all....we obviously not prepared and we go be playin against men who ALL playin in de top football leagues in the world, who does play CL League on a reg, and who play plenty WC and European Cup and Confederations Cup and Copa America and ting.  De majority of we players playin lower division football.  We have a captain who eh even playin wit nobody...unless yuh countin fete match fuh Man U as "playin to flight football".  Based on wha u sayin dey...bess we stay home.

Ah mean....dem teams plannin years in advance for dis World Cup.  Dis is we fuss time at it.  I eh sure how dis go help we football and psychological development.  I see this could definitely demoralise the next generation of our young footballers by mismatching our team against the best in the world.  

Have we REALLY prepared or just taking advantage of Jack connections?

[Filho]

Yep Jai...I have to agree we have to work on preparing better for tournaments. But it is more beneficial to go to this tournament than to ahve the boys doing nothing or practising drills back home. Let them get salt...that may be the best way for us to learn the importance of preparation.

You can also argue the Dallas Cup is a type of preparation. A lot will be learned about the quality of international competition at this age group. The boys will also train together on off days and get real match practice. It can turn out to be potential preparation for more important tournaments down the line.

[tempo]

Playing in this tournament and against excellent teams is a good thing. The idea that the "team is not prepared enough, so we shouldn't go" is really a cynical and prideful approach. How can you expect the team and players to improve if they don't play against good competition? Remember, these are 16 year old boys, they will improve if given the opportunities. Some of us really have fragile egos and are overly concerned about being "embarassed". So what if the team is soundly beaten in the games, in fact they probably will have a tough time. But, so long as they improve and continue to develop in time for a good u17 world qualification showing. That is what's important. Also, about the coaching, until the TTFF can afford to pay better coaches, Lincoln is stuck with the locals. It's that simple. He obviously knows the limitations involved with that bunch but what can he truly do? The gov't money may eventually be the source to get better coaches but you know how dat is. 

[doc]

Tempo, are you hearing anything about the U-14s?

[Sam]

Yea, de under 14 team still waiting on funds from de goverment to be formed. Man still playing with ole t-shirts and de money de ttff get that is for players and staff bonus.

Adidas only making 22 shirts for de seniors and a few to sell, but de other teams still playing with Finta, funds tight this rounds.

[duscam]

we should go because dallas cup has lots of scouts from universities and colleges and professional teams...so even if trinidad go and get beat every game some scholarships and opportunities may be provided for outstanding players, hard workers etc...it is a good thing.

[tempo]

Tempo, are you hearing anything about the U-14s?

I haven't heard too much about the u14s.   

[Trinimassive]

Don't think we need to be concerned with our players getting university scholarships. If they want that good fuh dem but it not helpin they game. When they leave there they struggling to make even MLS team. That is ah waste ah time really.

But while any competition is good, Jai John has a valid point. Even Beenie turn down tournaments because he couldn't field the his best players. Especially in T&T yuh cyah have teams losing as a habit cause just as someone said yesterday.....he spoke to one of the players and even though they lost the player said "that's small ting"

Seriously, if they lose what will be do....NOTHING. We cyah beat them, send them to ah corner. If they get accustomed to losing like ALL our teams did even the Senior Team (before Beenie) they say the same thing....we go do better next time. We sending ah National Team that could collect licks from club teams etc. That does nothing good for their self esteem and losing has no reprocisions like it does in Brazil or England. So the fellas go up not caring if they win or lose cause.....if ah Tree fall in the forest and nobody hear...did it fall?
Win, Lose, Draw is the same result for many of our teams so they doh fight to win.

But good luck to the team though.

[palos]

Don't think we need to be concerned with our players getting university scholarships. If they want that good fuh dem but it not helpin they game. When they leave there they struggling to make even MLS team. That is ah waste ah time really.

But while any competition is good, Jai John has a valid point. Even Beenie turn down tournaments because he couldn't field the his best players. Especially in T&T yuh cyah have teams losing as a habit cause just as someone said yesterday.....he spoke to one of the players and even though they lost the player said "that's small ting"

Seriously, if they lose what will be do....NOTHING. We cyah beat them, send them to ah corner. If they get accustomed to losing like ALL our teams did even the Senior Team (before Beenie) they say the same thing....we go do better next time. We sending ah National Team that could collect licks from club teams etc. That does nothing good for their self esteem and losing has no reprocisions like it does in Brazil or England. So the fellas go up not caring if they win or lose cause.....if ah Tree fall in the forest and nobody hear...did it fall?
Win, Lose, Draw is the same result for many of our teams so they doh fight to win.

But good luck to the team though.

Based on what you are saying we might as well doh go World Cup then?

[Trinimassive]

Don't think we need to be concerned with our players getting university scholarships. If they want that good fuh dem but it not helpin they game. When they leave there they struggling to make even MLS team. That is ah waste ah time really.

But while any competition is good, Jai John has a valid point. Even Beenie turn down tournaments because he couldn't field the his best players. Especially in T&T yuh cyah have teams losing as a habit cause just as someone said yesterday.....he spoke to one of the players and even though they lost the player said "that's small ting"

Seriously, if they lose what will be do....NOTHING. We cyah beat them, send them to ah corner. If they get accustomed to losing like ALL our teams did even the Senior Team (before Beenie) they say the same thing....we go do better next time. We sending ah National Team that could collect licks from club teams etc. That does nothing good for their self esteem and losing has no reprocisions like it does in Brazil or England. So the fellas go up not caring if they win or lose cause.....if ah Tree fall in the forest and nobody hear...did it fall?
Win, Lose, Draw is the same result for many of our teams so they doh fight to win.

But good luck to the team though.

Based on what you are saying we might as well doh go World Cup then?

LOL well who knows

No Palos ah saying same thing Beenie say about the tournament in Saudi he get invited to. He turn it down because he didn't have the top players available. Why didn't he take ah 2nd team...probablly because psychologically it would have affected the team's psychi.

Losing becomes a habit just as Winning becomes a habit.

Beenie has been choosing games wisely. Is no different in Boxing. Yuh chose yuh fight and times wisely to build up to where you going. At this point if the team hasn't even been training for very long and then go there a lose all their games...when they come back...Who cares? No one really. So they go on with life. They play again Lose....they go on with life. That was ALL of our teams. 

Psychology has a lot to do with Football as in any sport. If yuh keep gettin bad grades and yuh parents keep saying "oh well, it's ok...yuh tried" Failure becomes acceptable. Football is more mental than physical.
 

[NYtriniwhiteboy..]

i think they shud go..even if the opposing teams are of higher quality, this will help improve the team. They will see what is required of them and how to improve. You don't improve on beating up on lesser teams, you have to play quality opposition. Also this will be good for the players as maybe they will realize that altho they may be starring in trinidad and tobago at the school boy level, they are not stars on the world stage and will work to continue improving

[Marcos]

Yep Jai...I have to agree we have to work on preparing better for tournaments. But it is more beneficial to go to this tournament than to ahve the boys doing nothing or practising drills back home. Let them get salt...that may be the best way for us to learn the importance of preparation.

You can also argue the Dallas Cup is a type of preparation. A lot will be learned about the quality of international competition at this age group. The boys will also train together on off days and get real match practice. It can turn out to be potential preparation for more important tournaments down the line.

While I agree this isn't always the case.
The west indies cricket team is a testament to this
All they doing is losing and not learnin nuttin'

[Filho]

Yep Jai...I have to agree we have to work on preparing better for tournaments. But it is more beneficial to go to this tournament than to ahve the boys doing nothing or practising drills back home. Let them get salt...that may be the best way for us to learn the importance of preparation.

You can also argue the Dallas Cup is a type of preparation. A lot will be learned about the quality of international competition at this age group. The boys will also train together on off days and get real match practice. It can turn out to be potential preparation for more important tournaments down the line.

While I agree this isn't always the case.
The west indies cricket team is a testament to this
All they doing is losing and not learnin nuttin'

true...but I think the lessons that apply to youths who are in an earlier stage of their development, may not always apply to adults

[Marcos]

Yep Jai...I have to agree we have to work on preparing better for tournaments. But it is more beneficial to go to this tournament than to ahve the boys doing nothing or practising drills back home. Let them get salt...that may be the best way for us to learn the importance of preparation.

You can also argue the Dallas Cup is a type of preparation. A lot will be learned about the quality of international competition at this age group. The boys will also train together on off days and get real match practice. It can turn out to be potential preparation for more important tournaments down the line.

While I agree this isn't always the case.
The west indies cricket team is a testament to this
All they doing is losing and not learnin nuttin'

true...but I think the lessons that apply to youths who are in an earlier stage of their development, may not always apply to adults

Well said, but again, many of the new WI players are pretty young and are comparable in age to the under-21 squizzad

[jai john]

I have read the various comments and there are good arguments for whether we should take part in the Dallas Cup this year or not. However what I really hoped to exorcise was the devil within the details.
We can't seem to shake our eternal  problem of the lack of proper preparation for tournaments. So far no one has commented on what type of preparation these young players have been exposed to prior to ..throwing them in the ring ! You know ......what prepared them for this prestigeous tournament which is an annual event !
Maybe no one really knows ! Certainly we have not heard of any developmental plan within which this tournament fits.
I dont support the hit or miss approach because you cant control the process. If it fails we dont know why and if it succeeds we cant replicate it.
So the ...we need the players to see what good football is .....is really a joke for we all have TV. If the coaches dont know what a good football development plan entails how on earth can they pass it on the the players ?
Those of you who mentioned that it will be a good  experience must ask yourselves what lessons will be learnt  by it.  you think you could get , Ato boldon, Marc Burns, Bovell or Brown to compete just so ? I think not. That's why they have achieved . What lessons are we teaching the young ones wth this lack of preparedness ? that it is ok ? Then we want an attitude change when they get to be seniors ?
Someone mentioned the losing culture and I wish to repeat it ...Winning like losing is contageous ...so as a player you could be seen at Smoky and bunty after the 1989 loss drinking beers when real die hard fans didn't even want to go home . So we lose so what ...we go make it in 94 for sure ! remember that ? All that happened in 94 was more of the same but we move on to 98 will be great .
If Beenie didn't come in and save the ship all ah we woulda been saying 2010 is then !
Remember when we pick Beenie assistant coaches without is nowledge  what was his reply ...
Everone knows at that level the man selected brings his own team ...everyone except the TTFF that is ...Shamateurism at its highest .....and it will continue under this present adminstration.

[tempo]

So the ...we need the players to see what good football is .....is really a joke for we all have TV. If the coaches dont know what a good football development plan entails how on earth can they pass it on the the players ?

Are you serious? Are you saying that watching a game on tv will bring the same level of exposure to our players as actually playing a game against better players? This u16 team is the same one that competed in the CONCACAF tournament last august in Trinidad. They have been training regularly and playing against some of the PFL youth teams. It is time for them to compete against outside teams. Questions surrounding details are indeed important so here is one that has not been asked; what resources(staff, money, coaches) have been provided that will enable the national teams to do better? Having a plan is one thing(one does exist) but executing the plan requires the TTFF decision makers and gov't to provide these resources so proper preparation can take place on a consistent basis. Another item to take into consideration is the role the PFL and SSFL plays in youth development. In most countries, the clubs are the ones that develop and train the players because the players spend most of their time with either the clubs or the schools. Unless a national federation has a residency program, it is really the clubs that are best suited to send battle ready players for the international tournaments.

[dwn]

No Palos ah saying same thing Beenie say about the tournament in Saudi he get invited to. He turn it down because he didn't have the top players available. Why didn't he take ah 2nd team...probablly because psychologically it would have affected the team's psychi.

I think its matter of whether the admin believes the benefits outweigh the potential set backs.

Regarding the senior team, seeing that Beenie's goal is to prepare us for the world cup, then having the world cup bound players for that tournament was key. There wouldnt be any gain from taking a squad of players who arent part of the world cup preparation plan. Giving a few other players the experience doesnt might benefit the individuals but it doesnt really do anything as far as preparing the team for june is concerned.

As far as the under 16s go, I honestly dont know that much about their plan and what they are preparing for or how they are approaching this tournament so I cant really take a side. If they are putting together a team for this tournament and its not part of a long term preparation plan, then its probably not going to do them much good if they going to be out of their depth. The most they will learn is that they arent good enough.

[oconnorg]

Thats starts today.. Any one keeping thier ears open to whats going on ?

T&T 's first game is against Chicago Magic.

[Trini _2026]

Who is in our under 16 squad?

[JDB]

It looks like they update scores HERE

[oconnorg]

Hi Fellahs,

Based on the link provided by JDB, we are playing in Bracket G.. The game today is at 4 pm.

[freakazoid]

for real. who in the U16 squad ? is it more or less the ssame team that played in the cfu U15 tournament last year?