best non english player to play in the premiership

[real-warrior]

HENRY!!!

[iwar]

Henry- Vieira-Yorke-Cantona

[Feliziano]

my non-British 5 is:
Schmiechel
Hyppia
Yorke
Bergkamp
Henry

my British non-English 10 is:
Given & Southall
Irwin & Staunton
Gary McCallister & Giggs
Speed & Roy Keane
Mark Hughes & Ian Rush

[Bitter]

Yorkie in the top 10

My Top 5

Henry
Klinsmann
Giggs
Zola
Hyypia

no Cantona in the top 5, even though he was voted overseas player of the decade?

Cantona was never that great to me. He was definitely better than his peers at a time when English football realized they were technically behind the curve compared to its European counterparts. But since then ther have been better players. He also benefitted from the unbelievable ManU hype /marketing machine of the 90s that made ManU the richest most famous club in the world even when htey couldn't win crap. Cantona had timing on his side...he played football like a continental European and had better technical ability than most of his counterparts at the time..so he is remembered in this iconic way..but since then, better, but less celebrated players have invaded the Premiership. The Premiership is miles tougher now than it was in Cantona's day......

Hyppia has to go down as one of the greatest defenders in the Premiership..all time. The man is pure class week in week out for ages now. When people talk best footballers they always duck the defenders..so I gave one vote to a position I knew would have gotten overlooked. I can think of dozens of top class foreign players in the Premiership and not really be able to separate them...to be honest my top 5 done chaneg 100 times as I read every body else answers  But Hyppia is definitely a class act.

How could I leave out MAKALELE 

If you going to go with the argument that Cantona was only good b/c the people in his era weren't as good as now, then you could apply that to pretty much every footballing great. I mean, All joke aside, you feel men like Beckenbaur and Cryuff would get the time today that they they had back in the day to make plays? If you really want to talk about the history of the league (div 1), then George Best win hands down. But if he show up today at 20 and try them beats he will get kick down. lighter ball or not...

I hate Manchester Utd. but I love Cantona. The man was head and shoulders above the rest. In fact, the drop kick he buss in the stands alone should guarantee his spot at the top of the list.

What about Andy Cole?

[JDB]

Yorkie in the top 10

My Top 5

Henry
Klinsmann
Giggs
Zola
Hyypia

no Cantona in the top 5, even though he was voted overseas player of the decade?

Cantona was never that great to me. He was definitely better than his peers at a time when English football realized they were technically behind the curve compared to its European counterparts. But since then ther have been better players. He also benefitted from the unbelievable ManU hype /marketing machine of the 90s that made ManU the richest most famous club in the world even when htey couldn't win crap. Cantona had timing on his side...he played football like a continental European and had better technical ability than most of his counterparts at the time..so he is remembered in this iconic way..but since then, better, but less celebrated players have invaded the Premiership. The Premiership is miles tougher now than it was in Cantona's day......

Just one question though. When did Klinsmann play in the premiership?

Seems to me that it was the same time, same "easy premiership" as Cantona.

If any player benfitted from comparison to average EPL players it was Klinsmann.

[Filho]

Just one question though. When did Klinsmann play in the premiership?

Seems to me that it was the same time, same "easy premiership" as Cantona.

If any player benfitted from comparison to average EPL players it was Klinsmann.

Scene. That is a fair opinion. I simply do not think Cantona was that great and feel his inflated value was due to the factors I mentioned. It does not mean that every player in Cantona's time should be excluded from the list. I think what Klinsmann did for Tottenham (not to mention just his overall ability and carreer) was superior to Cantona's. Just an opinion.

[quote author=Bitter link=topic=13421.msg134838#msg134838 date=1144752273

If you going to go with the argument that Cantona was only good b/c the people in his era weren't as good as now, then you could apply that to pretty much every footballing great. I mean, All joke aside, you feel men like Beckenbaur and Cryuff would get the time today that they they had back in the day to make plays? If you really want to talk about the history of the league (div 1), then George Best win hands down. But if he show up today at 20 and try them beats he will get kick down. lighter ball or not...

I hate Manchester Utd. but I love Cantona. The man was head and shoulders above the rest. In fact, the drop kick he buss in the stands alone should guarantee his spot at the top of the list.

What about Andy Cole?

Can't include Andy Cole...we are talking about non-British
I'm not saying that Cantona wasn't good, and I am not saying he was only good because the standard of the Premiership was not that great..I am only saying that it inflated his value. When he played for ManU in Europe and for France he was pretty ordinary (it's a team game so not entirely his fault). I think he is also part of the same ManU hype machine that made David Beckham seem like the next England saviour long before he even proved himself. 
I agree with you in not comparing players from different eras but Cantona is still from an era of pretty modern football. I see no problem in comparing Zico to Baggio to Kaka...even though they are technically different generations...but I refrain from trying to compare Rivellino to Ronaldinho...for me the football was just too different...and I never saw much of these older generations to make a valid assessment anyway. It is a subjective thing...there is no science to it.
Anyway, I think players like Klinsman, Zola, Giggs and Henry, etc. are technically more gifted than Cantona and had a massive effect on the English club game as well. Hyppia I just put there to give defenders some props 

[kicker]

JDB, Bitter.....etc...

It's simple...........not everybody loves Cantona, not a big deal........

[Cantona007]

Just one question though. When did Klinsmann play in the premiership?

Seems to me that it was the same time, same "easy premiership" as Cantona.

If any player benfitted from comparison to average EPL players it was Klinsmann.

Scene. That is a fair opinion. I simply do not think Cantona was that great and feel his inflated value was due to the factors I mentioned. It does not mean that every player in Cantona's time should be excluded from the list. I think what Klinsmann did for Tottenham (not to mention just his overall ability and carreer) was superior to Cantona's. Just an opinion.

[quote author=Bitter link=topic=13421.msg134838#msg134838 date=1144752273

If you going to go with the argument that Cantona was only good b/c the people in his era weren't as good as now, then you could apply that to pretty much every footballing great. I mean, All joke aside, you feel men like Beckenbaur and Cryuff would get the time today that they they had back in the day to make plays? If you really want to talk about the history of the league (div 1), then George Best win hands down. But if he show up today at 20 and try them beats he will get kick down. lighter ball or not...

I hate Manchester Utd. but I love Cantona. The man was head and shoulders above the rest. In fact, the drop kick he buss in the stands alone should guarantee his spot at the top of the list.

What about Andy Cole?

Can't include Andy Cole...we are talking about non-British
I'm not saying that Cantona wasn't good, and I am not saying he was only good because the standard of the Premiership was not that great..I am only saying that it inflated his value. When he played for ManU in Europe and for France he was pretty ordinary (it's a team game so not entirely his fault). I think he is also part of the same ManU hype machine that made David Beckham seem like the next England saviour long before he even proved himself. 
I agree with you in not comparing players from different eras but Cantona is still from an era of pretty modern football. I see no problem in comparing Zico to Baggio to Kaka...even though they are technically different generations...but I refrain from trying to compare Rivellino to Ronaldinho...for me the football was just too different...and I never saw much of these older generations to make a valid assessment anyway. It is a subjective thing...there is no science to it.
Anyway, I think players like Klinsman, Zola, Giggs and Henry, etc. are technically more gifted than Cantona and had a massive effect on the English club game as well. Hyppia I just put there to give defenders some props 

I don't know where to start... first of all the "hype machine" was a creation of Beckham, NOT ManU. Fergie abhors self-aggrandisement. Becks created and milked his PR machine to the fullest without help from MU, hence his untimely (maybe...) departure.
"What Klinsmann dis  for Tottenham was superior  to Cantona..." hmmm, Cantona came and won us the league immediately and ushered in a period of domination that other managers today are trying to emulate (hard luck Arsene, perhaps Jose). Cantona was responsible for providing a training and  playing model for the Fergie fledglings (Beckham, giggs and the rest always talk about his desire and will in training). Cantona was the embodiment of the ManU ethos of swashbuckling play on the field. Klinsman... sold a few shirts in the club shop.
"Cantona was not that great... his inflated value..." Cantona was voted player of the decade by his peers and the football establishment.
Geez.

[dinho]

Chris Birchall

[JDB]

Anyway, I think players like Klinsman, Zola, Giggs and Henry, etc. are technically more gifted than Cantona and had a massive effect on the English club game as well.

I not fighting down anything because so much of this is subjective but Klinsmann was not as technically gifted as Cantona by any measure, likewise Giggs.

Klinsmann's main attribute was finding ways to beat the last defender, he had a wicked belt and was very inventive at leaving out the last man. Like any good striker he could play a good through ball and cross but compared to Cantona he was workmanlike.

The reason I class Henry above Cantona is because he has similar technique PLUS he does it all at top speed.

Zola I think was more gifted but less influential. He also came to the premiership after his peak. he actually had a renaisance that was also an indictment of the style of the EPL compared to Europe. In his prime Zola would have been like Maro to the EPL.

Cantona was a very deceptive player because of his awkward upright gait and top heavy style but...

Cantona had the full range of tricks, flicks, dribbles, ball control, passing range and vision that you associate with skillful players. he also never played abroad or for the National team during his best years so his career outside the EPL is not a measure of his impact.

I love Giggs and he has some excellent attributes, does a lot of tricks, great player defensively and has good pace but his technique and skill is not as good as Cantona's was. Klinsman even less so.

[Pointman]

Dwight Yorke and Thierry Henry!!!
...and Eric Cantona

[Filho]

I don't know where to start... first of all the "hype machine" was a creation of Beckham, NOT ManU. Fergie abhors self-aggrandisement. Becks created and milked his PR machine to the fullest without help from MU, hence his untimely (maybe...) departure.
"What Klinsmann dis  for Tottenham was superior  to Cantona..." hmmm, Cantona came and won us the league immediately and ushered in a period of domination that other managers today are trying to emulate (hard luck Arsene, perhaps Jose). Cantona was responsible for providing a training and  playing model for the Fergie fledglings (Beckham, giggs and the rest always talk about his desire and will in training). Cantona was the embodiment of the ManU ethos of swashbuckling play on the field. Klinsman... sold a few shirts in the club shop.
"Cantona was not that great... his inflated value..." Cantona was voted player of the decade by his peers and the football establishment.
Geez.

Dat cool boss. We just have different views. No scene.

For me, the Beckham hype machine started at ManU. It did take on a life of its own after a while, I give you that for sure...but ManU is also a very clever business and cultivated the earliest public images and persona of D. Beckham and all its players...

Sorry, I place more value on Klinnsman's exploits...he went to a poor Tottenham team that was destined for relegation and still scored buckets of goals. In the end many credit him for saving them from sure relegation. He left England, but then came back and did the exact same thing a second time when everyone was sure Tottenham was going down...

Doesn't matter to me who voted Cantona as the greatest player of the decade. To put much value in awards is a joke or else we would all like the same players. C'mon, you know it doesn't work that way.

No need to make a big deal out of me not ranking Cantona as highly as some...that is football.
Respeck

[Cantona007]

I don't know where to start... first of all the "hype machine" was a creation of Beckham, NOT ManU. Fergie abhors self-aggrandisement. Becks created and milked his PR machine to the fullest without help from MU, hence his untimely (maybe...) departure.
"What Klinsmann dis  for Tottenham was superior  to Cantona..." hmmm, Cantona came and won us the league immediately and ushered in a period of domination that other managers today are trying to emulate (hard luck Arsene, perhaps Jose). Cantona was responsible for providing a training and  playing model for the Fergie fledglings (Beckham, giggs and the rest always talk about his desire and will in training). Cantona was the embodiment of the ManU ethos of swashbuckling play on the field. Klinsman... sold a few shirts in the club shop.
"Cantona was not that great... his inflated value..." Cantona was voted player of the decade by his peers and the football establishment.
Geez.

Dat cool boss. We just have different views. No scene.

For me, the Beckham hype machine started at ManU. It did take on a life of its own after a while, I give you that for sure...but ManU is also a very clever business and cultivated the earliest public images and persona of D. Beckham and all its players...

Sorry, I place more value on Klinnsman's exploits...he went to a poor Tottenham team that was destined for relegation and still scored buckets of goals. In the end many credit him for saving them from sure relegation. He left England, but then came back and did the exact same thing a second time when everyone was sure Tottenham was going down...

Doesn't matter to me who voted Cantona as the greatest player of the decade. To put much value in awards is a joke or else we would all like the same players. C'mon, you know it doesn't work that way.

No need to make a big deal out of me not ranking Cantona as highly as some...that is football.
Respeck

True talk about awards... and...
Respect. 

[JDB]

Dat cool boss. We just have different views. No scene.

Sorry, I place more value on Klinnsman's exploits...he went to a poor Tottenham team that was destined for relegation and still scored buckets of goals. In the end many credit him for saving them from sure relegation. He left England, but then came back and did the exact same thing a second time when everyone was sure Tottenham was going down...

No need to make a big deal out of me not ranking Cantona as highly as some...that is football.
Respeck

Respect here too. It is clear that you like Klinsmann and if you tell me that is the basis for rating him so much I cool.

But to say that Spurs was destined for relegation when he joined just doesn't wash for me as far as reasons for Klinsmann being better.

As I remember the Spurs team that Klinsman joined in 94 also had Popescu and Dumitrescu straight from the WC, plus Anderton, Sheringham, Barmby, Ruddock, Sol and an England keeper in goal. No way no how was that team a surety for relegation and to say that Klinsmann saved them is to give him way too much credit.

I agree that the team he rejoined in the late 9os was poor, he rejoined them for about 14 games, scored a beaver in one big win and maybe 3 or 4 goals in the other games and they stayed up.

[Filho]

Dat cool boss. We just have different views. No scene.

Sorry, I place more value on Klinnsman's exploits...he went to a poor Tottenham team that was destined for relegation and still scored buckets of goals. In the end many credit him for saving them from sure relegation. He left England, but then came back and did the exact same thing a second time when everyone was sure Tottenham was going down...

No need to make a big deal out of me not ranking Cantona as highly as some...that is football.
Respeck

Respect here too. It is clear that you like Klinsmann and if you tell me that is the basis for rating him so much I cool.

But to say that Spurs was destined for relegation when he joined just doesn't wash for me as far as reasons for Klinsmann being better.

As I remember the Spurs team that Klinsman joined in 94 also had Popescu and Dumitrescu straight from the WC, plus Anderton, Sheringham, Barmby, Ruddock, Sol and an England keeper in goal. No way no how was that team a surety for relegation and to say that Klinsmann saved them is to give him way too much credit.

I agree that the team he rejoined in the late 9os was poor, he rejoined them for about 14 games, scored a beaver in one big win and maybe 3 or 4 goals in the other games and they stayed up.

JDB..the funny thing is I am no real Klinsmann fan. But that is not the only reason I like Klinsmann better. I was just summarizing his impact on Tottenham or at least my perception of it. You're right in that I inflated his value for his first season at Tottenham......I did not do it on purpose, but I am going by memory and I was a youth, so forgive me if I got that wrong. Your version does jog my memory and sounds more accurate. But he was still great for them that 1st season and that second stint was nothing but spectacular and was a brave move on his part. Using your very same argument I could say that United was loaded with talent (and it really was) and Cantona was not as great as some make him out to be. I could say Dwight Yorke stepped into United and finally did what Cantona could not do...score more than 20 goals a season, provide buckets of assists and tear up Europe....but what is the sense in that? It would not be the entire truth. Cantona is and was exactly as you say...to you. I really cyah dispute that. So cheers pardnah