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Author Topic: ARSENAL FORWARD  (Read 898381 times)

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Offline Observer

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4890 on: November 19, 2011, 08:54:46 AM »
V Persie has 10 goals in the last 5.  Absolute beast.

And Gervinho has 10 misses in the last 2  ;D
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Offline fari

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4891 on: November 19, 2011, 11:13:17 AM »
good win!   gervinho doh worry boy, de goals will come...u getting into good positions just keep ur composure...watch henry in training to see what to do

this win was a great start to my birthday ;D

Offline palos

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4892 on: November 19, 2011, 11:22:52 AM »
I honestly expected Norwich to equalize in de dregs.

Arsenal is a real heart attack team.  Guess that's a major part of why so much people like dem.....dem love de drama.

It really interesting to me how Mertesacker looks so shaky in EPL.  This guy is normally the coolest customer you can get.  In EPL...he playin almost like a rookie.  Thank GOD dey get back Vermalen yes...or else.

Question for Observer or anybody else who might know.  Do you know if Arsenal has a specialist defence coach?

If they do, he must be "special" like Radio.  Dem fellas does play sometimes like dem eh have a clue.

Gervinho real trow way today in trute.  I never saw a black powder puff before today
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Offline Observer

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4893 on: November 19, 2011, 12:46:18 PM »
Palos I would say no. They do not have a coach for the defense, Pat Rice & Wenger do all the coaching. from what I understand when the question was put forward to Wenger (if he would consider hiring a coach for the defense) his reply was, no!
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Offline palos

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4894 on: November 19, 2011, 01:28:06 PM »
Palos I would say no. They do not have a coach for the defense, Pat Rice & Wenger do all the coaching. from what I understand when the question was put forward to Wenger (if he would consider hiring a coach for the defense) his reply was, no!

Is it normal for teams to have a specialist coach for the various positions?  Defence, midfield, and striker?  Or is it more typical for the manager/coach to be responsible for ALL aspects of the team?

Pat Rice used to be a defender.  If he's responsible for mainly the defensive duties, he's been doing a horrible job.  Whoever responsible...and I have to conclude at this point that it's Wenger....he doin his team a disservice.
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Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4895 on: November 19, 2011, 02:54:10 PM »
I think for the time being it'll just be a matter of putting the better personnel out there .. I go with Djourou in the right back position and Mertsaker on the bench.
I think a few years aback they had hired Martin Keown and he had the backline pretty solid but it wasn't a long term thing.
I think they are doing better defensively but it's really individual mistakes being made.
Arsene trying to rotate but sooner or later one of the three is gonna have to sit it out and it's kinda obvious who it is going to have to be.
I hate Man City but when they were leading newcastle they looked pretty solid for you to believe that they wouldnt concede any .. Arsenal doesnt give me that kind of confidence.

Offline Observer

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4896 on: November 19, 2011, 03:36:34 PM »
Palos I would say no. They do not have a coach for the defense, Pat Rice & Wenger do all the coaching. from what I understand when the question was put forward to Wenger (if he would consider hiring a coach for the defense) his reply was, no!

Is it normal for teams to have a specialist coach for the various positions?  Defence, midfield, and striker?  Or is it more typical for the manager/coach to be responsible for ALL aspects of the team?

Pat Rice used to be a defender.  If he's responsible for mainly the defensive duties, he's been doing a horrible job.  Whoever responsible...and I have to conclude at this point that it's Wenger....he doin his team a disservice.

Either that or the defenders just not good enough. Todays mistake was clearly not the defense as as a line, it was an individual's brain fart. Everyone scrutiny is always the back line, but in my limited view the lack of midfield defending places a huge strain on the back four, or three ( since the FB's have license to go forward).

Santos is a good player but not a very good defensive full back.
PS: Song was off song today, to his defense he has been very consistent this season
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Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4897 on: November 19, 2011, 03:50:08 PM »
Palos I would say no. They do not have a coach for the defense, Pat Rice & Wenger do all the coaching. from what I understand when the question was put forward to Wenger (if he would consider hiring a coach for the defense) his reply was, no!

Is it normal for teams to have a specialist coach for the various positions?  Defence, midfield, and striker?  Or is it more typical for the manager/coach to be responsible for ALL aspects of the team?

Pat Rice used to be a defender.  If he's responsible for mainly the defensive duties, he's been doing a horrible job.  Whoever responsible...and I have to conclude at this point that it's Wenger....he doin his team a disservice.

Either that or the defenders just not good enough. Todays mistake was clearly not the defense as as a line, it was an individual's brain fart. Everyone scrutiny is always the back line, but in my limited view the lack of midfield defending places a huge strain on the back four, or three ( since the FB's have license to go forward).

Santos is a good player but not a very good defensive full back.
PS: Song was off song today, to his defense he has been very consistent this season

I thought I was the only one who thought Song looked tired today to be honest.
I think the midfield puts in a decent amount of work Song and Arteta mainly ... Ramsey looked off the paste a bit he just misses so much with his first touch not really sure I'm ever really gonna be a full fledged fan of him.
To play that role his touch has to be a thousand times better than it is now so the time he takes to control can be used to see the spaces to put the ball... still wanna see more of Rosicky. Walcott did better today .... why are our two wingers so shot shy?
Seems like the only person who really wants to attack and shoot after Van P is Santos and Vermalean.

Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4898 on: November 21, 2011, 10:36:38 AM »

http://desigunner.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/snapshot-based-analysis-of-the-norwich-city-goal/

Snapshot Based Analysis Of The Norwich City Goal
On Saturday, Arsenal conceded another ridiculous goal. Thankfully, It didn’t affect the outcome but brought back painful memories of other howlers in the recent past. Now the easy option is to blame Mertesacker and move on. There is no denying the fact that the German should have shown greater strength and could have passed the ball towards Santos or headed it back to Szczesny if he so intended. Bulk of the blame falls on the big man and he will have to learn to use his size to resist such opportunistic fouling that is almost always deemed legal in the Premier League.

Having said that, I believe there is more to this goal than just Mertesacker’s mistake. Let’s take a look at the sequence of events. The background was that Arsenal won a corner in the 15th minute and the defenders had gone forward. It was wasted and resulted in a goal-kick.

When Ruddy kicked it forward, Mertesacker won it unchallenged and headed it back into the Norwich half. A few headers were exchanged before Tierney hoofed it forward.

The first snapshot shows the German’s header. The bold red line below Song marks the area where I believe Arsenal’s high line would have been at the time the long ball was played from the back (moments after this snap was taken). It is just behind the centre circle, so around 12 yards inside Arsenal’s half. The yellow oval marks Morrison.


Mertesacker heads the goal-kick
The second snap shows Tierney kicking the ball from at least 20 yards inside the Norwich half. Considering the fact that Mertesacker and Morrison duelled just inside the Arsenal penalty box, this ball must have traveled 55-60 yards if not more.

An interesting aside is that Arsenal have put decent pressure on the ball. In the past it has been said that the Gunners didn’t press well while playing a high line but in this case that does not seem like a valid complaint. So it would seem that even though a key issue has been addressed, the goal could not be prevented. It must be noted that due to the pressing, this wasn’t a measured ball over the top but more of a hopeful punt under pressure.


Tierney long ball | Arsenal pressing fairly well
The third image is the most interesting one. I could not get a less blurry one, apologies for that. But based on the previous images (or you can check the replays) the players’ positions are clear. Mertesacker is marked by the Red oval while Morrison is in the Yellow one.

It seems safe to assume the players would have covered a couple of yards since the ball was kicked and the camera panned around. This provides a rough idea of their starting positions, which should be somewhere along the line marked below Song in the first image.


Morrison & Mertesacker chasing the ball
From here on we don’t need any more snapshots as the events were fairly clear.

Apart from the Mertesacker mistakes discussed above, one could ask why Szczesny didn’t come for the ball. When the ball was 20 yards inside the opposition half, he must surely have been a few yards out of his line. That means he’d have to travel around 15-18 yards to get to the ball while facing all the play.

In contrast, Morrison probably sprinted close to 30 meters from his position wide on the touchline about a dozen yards inside the Arsenal half. He ran at an angle and came in from behind and across the German defender. Mertesacker too would have had to cover 25 yards or so. Based on this evidence it can be surmised that Szczesny could have been closer to the ball than the attackers. Why then should the goalkeeper not take charge of the situation?

Don’t get me wrong, the point is not to blame Szczesny. That is a pointless exercise. The idea is to discuss the events and consider various possibilities. From that point of view I believe valid questions can be asked of the Keeper’s role in this scenario.

Regular readers would recall in the past I have observed that Arsenal’s keepers looked worse than they actually were because they were asked to come for almost everything. Szczesny has been relieved of that burden and the defenders have taken more responsibility over the last couple of seasons. But even then there have been a few incidents when the young Pole came out and botched it. Could it be that he now has strict instructions to stay on or near his line?

I have a feeling the coaches and the players haven’t been able to form a clear decision making process for such events. Of course, it’s not easy and remains a judgement call for the Keeper to make but training should hone his instincts. Recent events and disasters of past might have forced this policy of asking the Keeper to stay back even in cases where coming out would be the better choice.

Without knowing the details of what goes on behind the scenes in training, it’s hard to definitively say whether it’s a training issue or an individual’s lack of judgment. Considering the numerous bloopers that we have seen in recent years with a similar theme but involving different players resulting in various freakish goals, the balance tilts towards a coaching problem.

And since we are talking about this goal, it’s worth mentioning that when Mertesacker got near the ball Vermaelen could be seen gesturing towards Szczesny to stay back. The Belgian himself slowed down and didn’t stay in line with the German. One could also argue that if Vermaelen had anticipated a mistake (like many fans did!) he could have continued his sprint back and got in a position to tackle Morrison or get between the striker and the goal.

Again don’t mistake this as an effort to blame Vermaelen. In fairness, he probably thought there was no danger and eased off. That should have been the case if Mertesacker dealt with the situation.

So in conclusion, I do agree with most people who primarily hold the German responsible for the goal. But when there are three or four defenders around the ball and the solitary attacker manages to score such a goal, further questions need to be asked. Clearly, a lot of work has gone into redeveloping the team but such events do shake the confidence. Can anyone say when next or how often similar  errors will frustrate all Gooners (including the manager and the players)?


Offline Bitter

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4899 on: November 21, 2011, 10:54:49 AM »
It was just a simple mistake. The only think I could say in Mertesacker’s defense is that the ball was at an awkward height for him when Morrison stuck his foot in.
i was actually impressed with Mertesacker’s little burst of speed... but then he mucked it up
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Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4900 on: November 21, 2011, 12:19:52 PM »
I actually think he was fouled .. no excuses though but it looked a foul to me!!

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4901 on: November 22, 2011, 06:08:41 PM »
Tough game tomorrow. Gunners need to win to clinch the next round. Hope Olympiakos can help us out.
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Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4902 on: November 23, 2011, 12:36:00 PM »
I wanted to ask allyuh boi ... who is better Eden Hazard or Mario Goetze?

Offline Bakes

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4903 on: November 23, 2011, 02:11:40 PM »
I wanted to ask allyuh boi ... who is better Eden Hazard or Mario Goetze?

Wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer... Gotze is a very good player, very dynamic, but compared to Hazard he's no more than the current flavor of the month.  Hazard is the more proven player at this point in their careers, only player to win the French Young Player award twice or something so, and has been producing for years.  Gotze just reach on the scene but still has time to establish his bonafides.

Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4904 on: November 23, 2011, 06:32:46 PM »
I wanted to ask allyuh boi ... who is better Eden Hazard or Mario Goetze?

Wasn't addressed to me, but I'll answer... Gotze is a very good player, very dynamic, but compared to Hazard he's no more than the current flavor of the month.  Hazard is the more proven player at this point in their careers, only player to win the French Young Player award twice or something so, and has been producing for years.  Gotze just reach on the scene but still has time to establish his bonafides.


Bakes this was addressed to all men on the board lol ... thanks for the answer .... I'm inclined to agree with you but I felt myself comparing him to Ribbery and while Ribbery always hunting for the ball to make yuh life hell when he run at yuh .. hazard tends to float in and out of games ... seems moody and like you dunno what youll get out of him each game ... for the money they calling for him ... them attributes not comforting!!

So didn't know really who had the more upside between him and Goetz.

Offline Observer

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4905 on: November 23, 2011, 06:50:28 PM »
IMHO, I like Goetze. he can give you several options by playing different positions
 and he has a knack for scoring big goals. In the long run it is an excellent comparison and one to watch.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4906 on: November 23, 2011, 06:51:53 PM »
Bakes this was addressed to all men on the board lol ... thanks for the answer .... I'm inclined to agree with you but I felt myself comparing him to Ribbery and while Ribbery always hunting for the ball to make yuh life hell when he run at yuh .. hazard tends to float in and out of games ... seems moody and like you dunno what youll get out of him each game ... for the money they calling for him ... them attributes not comforting!!

So didn't know really who had the more upside between him and Goetz.

I feel Gotze hungrier... Hazard grow up having everything handed to him, including success.  Not saying he didn't work hard, but it came early to him, and perhaps naturally to him.  Without getting too much into the amateur psychology, my take is if yuh doh have to struggle fuh something yuh tend to not appreciate it... maybe that is why it might appear that Hazard does float in and out.  Gotze just finally starting to taste success and he lapping it up... or dying trying.  They both the same age so both have the same amount of time on their side.  But to me Hazard is a much more complete player.  That said, I real like Gotze doh... he strike me as ah a man if yuh drop him in a den ah lions yuh have tuh fraid fuh de lions.

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4907 on: November 23, 2011, 09:44:08 PM »
So, umm, are we still in crisis?
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Offline Observer

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4908 on: November 24, 2011, 10:35:39 AM »
So, umm, are we still in crisis?

If no trophies come the club's way then everyone will say "YUH SEE."
Stay healthy MAIN AIM
Get the injured BAck
Others need to step up and start scoring. One person doing all your scoring
is healthy for Now.
More depth come January 

Dede from Vasco is a CB  with huge promise
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Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4909 on: November 25, 2011, 07:34:38 AM »
So, umm, are we still in crisis?

If no trophies come the club's way then everyone will say "YUH SEE."
Stay healthy MAIN AIM
Get the injured BAck
Others need to step up and start scoring. One person doing all your scoring
is healthy for Now.
More depth come January 

Dede from Vasco is a CB  with huge promise


Arsene ent go be looking for anymore CB .... Dede is being chasedby Arsenal?
Heard a rumour circulating bout Henry for a loan?

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4910 on: November 25, 2011, 09:55:03 AM »
Arsene ent go be looking for anymore CB .... Dede is being chasedby Arsenal?
Heard a rumour circulating bout Henry for a loan?

I don't think we need any more centre backs.we have 5, Verm and Kos are in great form, Per kinda sometimish, JD out of form and Squillaci the less said the better, but that is a fairly deep bench. Deeper than United or City I think. Of course their luck with injuries historically isn't nearly as bad.
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Offline Bakes

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4911 on: November 26, 2011, 01:12:14 PM »
Vermaelen with ah brace...

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4912 on: November 26, 2011, 01:26:24 PM »
No Van Persie score no win!

Offline Ngozi

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4913 on: November 28, 2011, 07:57:52 AM »
We looked tired  against Fulham .... the Man City game he has to put out a strong team ..... Man  city is not as unbeatable as people make them out to be ...but with that in mind their goalie is superb!!

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4914 on: November 28, 2011, 11:00:15 AM »
Carling cup I doh mind if we go with the B side. Climbing the league table is priority as far as I am concerned. Beyond that we need the other players (especially the centre forwards and wingers) to get playing time as we will need them in the first 3 months of 2012 for league games.
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Offline Bitter

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4915 on: November 29, 2011, 12:25:24 PM »
Wenger urges fans not to abuse Nasri
November 29, 2011
By ESPN staff
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/conversation?id=989759&cc=5901

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger admits he knew in May that he was destined to lose Samir Nasri at some point during the summer.

Nasri moved to Manchester City for £24 million in August after refusing to extend an Arsenal contract which was due to expire in 2012. Only weeks before the transfer, Wenger said he was confident that the France international would stay with the London side.

However, it appears his optimism was little more than a smokescreen designed to extract a larger transfer fee from City. "When we didn't reach an agreement [over a new contract] I prepared myself to face the possibility he may leave. I knew in May," Wenger said.

Nasri joined Arsenal for £11m from Marseille in 2008 and, particularly across his final season at the club, emerged as one of the finest midfielders in the Premier League.

Ahead of City's trip to Arsenal in the Carling Cup quarter-finals on Tuesday, Wenger has urged the Gunners fans to remember the good Nasri did for the club - and not the manner of his exit.

"I hope Samir gets a good reception," Wenger said. "I want every player who played for us to be respected when they come back. Samir improved tremendously with us. He has developed fantastically well from a non-scoring player to a guy who can make a decision."

Wenger has warned Manchester City their biggest tests are yet to come.

"You have to go through the whole winter when you play in the Champions League - we did that," he said. "In the FA Cup as well, the semi-finals of the Champions League - to do that together is very difficult.

"It [an unbeaten league campaign] looks unlikely, but you never know. You can never really doubt. However, in the modern game you need a bit of luck - watching the game against Liverpool they could have been beaten.

"Overall hopefully for us not, because we want to get as close as possible to them and it is important to beat them.

"Financially it is impossible to compete with them. On the football pitch it is possible. Our squad has more experience and I am confident we can show that. We are still a young team. The success of this club is based on the development of young players and we still want to show that.''

Kolo Toure and Gael Clichy are two other former Gunners who could feature in the Emirates Stadium clash, with City boss Roberto Mancini planning wholesale changes.

Striker Mario Balotelli and midfielder Gareth Barry are suspended, but may have been left out anyway after featuring in the weekend draw at Liverpool. Former England midfielder Owen Hargreaves, fit after a recent calf injury, and Stefan Savic are among the more high-profile players who could be involved.

Wenger has confirmed he will give some of his fringe players a chance to impress. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Emmanuel Frimpong, Yossi Benayoun and South Korea captain Park Chu-Young are all in contention as some of the Gunners' key men will be given a break.

Midfielder Abou Diaby is a doubt after picking up a muscular injury in Saturday's 1-1 draw with Fulham.
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Offline Observer

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4916 on: November 29, 2011, 02:52:00 PM »
Once Arsenal in possession and Man City holding defensive shape with an 8 man block on top of the box, Arsenal forcing it and playing way too Narrow.
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Offline Bitter

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4917 on: November 29, 2011, 03:06:17 PM »
Once Arsenal in possession and Man City holding defensive shape with an 8 man block on top of the box, Arsenal forcing it and playing way too Narrow.

Since last season, it's interesting to see how much respect Mancini gives Arsenal.
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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4918 on: November 29, 2011, 05:45:44 PM »
Coquelin, Frimpong, and Chamberlin look like the real deal. Park looks way off Premier standard and Chamak not convincing as well, he eh scaring nobody.
Arsenal play some excellent football today, but suffered from a lack of a genuine striker to finshing the excellent work of the midfield and wide players.
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Offline Bitter

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Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #4919 on: November 29, 2011, 06:01:25 PM »
Coquelin, Frimpong, and Chamberlin look like the real deal. Park looks way off Premier standard and Chamak not convincing as well, he eh scaring nobody.
Arsenal play some excellent football today, but suffered from a lack of a genuine striker to finshing the excellent work of the midfield and wide players.

Yes, a good game, These are some of the same players who were "in over their heads" for the Man U game earlier in the season. With all the hand wringing about goalies and defenders and the loss of Cesc and Nasri, Arsenal probably just need a couple good strikers.

The amount of running them fellas do in the middle of the park to close down Man City was amazing.
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