April 27, 2024, 02:14:00 AM

Author Topic: ARSENAL FORWARD  (Read 899776 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT
« Reply #3630 on: May 18, 2011, 06:53:18 AM »
I think the extensive use of loans is a fairly recent thing, maybe more so in the last 3-5 years. Giving young fellas some first team experience when you can't justify playing them without risking your team ambitions. As dwn said, Wilshere went on loan. Ramsey has been loaned out twice this season alone to build up his match fitness after coming back from his Shawcrossed leg.

Stunner I think you referring to Shunsuke Nakamura. About Ryo I watched a download of the Feyenoord-Heerenveen game yesterday and he looked decent. He has a tendency to get caught on the ball and needs some upper body strength, but those aren't serious long-term issues for a teenage player. It might hinder his adjustment to the Prem though. Better hit the weights this summer. And although he's left footed his right isn't bad. The man have some touches. Pace is decent too but could use a bit of improving. And his vision is excellent. Of course that was only one game.


i mean to go to the dutch league and hold your own at 18  is no small feat

plus given the drive and ethic far eastern players can show, honda park and that dude from celtic i think this kid can be a star

i dont say it often but  last time i said that was about jack wilshire

I not trying to write the man off because I haven't seen him just saying that the fact he on loan does not bode well. Fabregas and Van Persie never went on loan, they were part of the squad from day one. Wilshere and Ramsey around the same age and they starting now. In fact even Walcott went straight into the team at 17.

He could very well be a good player but most of these players end up in a loan-reserve-loan cycle before eventually getting moved on, especially strikers.

Wilshere went on loan and the next season he was a starter. And although he didn't have the same success, Vela went on loan and got first team chances the next season. So I don't think going on loan is necessarily a bad sign. I think the team Wenger allows them to go to also reflects the players future prospects. Most of the men who went on loan to lower division teams next break into the squad. But then I know with Wilshere and Vela he specifically wanted them to be loaned to other teams in the EPL. In the end, I think it all comes down to the competition in your position. It's worked out differently for different players.  If Arshavin and Bendtner leave and he have a good preseason, you never know.
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline JDB

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4607
  • Red, White and Black till death
    • View Profile
    • We Reach
Re: VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT
« Reply #3631 on: May 18, 2011, 08:25:13 AM »
I think the extensive use of loans is a fairly recent thing, maybe more so in the last 3-5 years. Giving young fellas some first team experience when you can't justify playing them without risking your team ambitions. As dwn said, Wilshere went on loan. Ramsey has been loaned out twice this season alone to build up his match fitness after coming back from his Shawcrossed leg.

Stunner I think you referring to Shunsuke Nakamura. About Ryo I watched a download of the Feyenoord-Heerenveen game yesterday and he looked decent. He has a tendency to get caught on the ball and needs some upper body strength, but those aren't serious long-term issues for a teenage player. It might hinder his adjustment to the Prem though. Better hit the weights this summer. And although he's left footed his right isn't bad. The man have some touches. Pace is decent too but could use a bit of improving. And his vision is excellent. Of course that was only one game.


i mean to go to the dutch league and hold your own at 18  is no small feat

plus given the drive and ethic far eastern players can show, honda park and that dude from celtic i think this kid can be a star

i dont say it often but  last time i said that was about jack wilshire

I not trying to write the man off because I haven't seen him just saying that the fact he on loan does not bode well. Fabregas and Van Persie never went on loan, they were part of the squad from day one. Wilshere and Ramsey around the same age and they starting now. In fact even Walcott went straight into the team at 17.

He could very well be a good player but most of these players end up in a loan-reserve-loan cycle before eventually getting moved on, especially strikers.

Wilshere went on loan and the next season he was a starter. And although he didn't have the same success, Vela went on loan and got first team chances the next season. So I don't think going on loan is necessarily a bad sign. I think the team Wenger allows them to go to also reflects the players future prospects. Most of the men who went on loan to lower division teams next break into the squad. But then I know with Wilshere and Vela he specifically wanted them to be loaned to other teams in the EPL. In the end, I think it all comes down to the competition in your position. It's worked out differently for different players.  If Arshavin and Bendtner leave and he have a good preseason, you never know.

yes Wilshere and Ramsey went on loan but I was really looking at forwards developing at big clubs. They just don't get the time at big clubs unless you could see that they good enough at 17-21 and they get the playing time. Bendtner in the squad now but he is 23 and he spend a long stretch on loan. He is clearly not good enough and is not getting time at Arsenal. Even Vela is 22 and went on several loans, doing well at every stop. How does he stack up to the strikers at the other big clubs right now? You think Arsenal could put their hopes in him next season?

"In general" the young strikers who make it all the through at big clubs are the ones who have prodigious talent and play as full members of the first team squad from young.
THE WARRIORS WILL NOT BE DENIED.

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT
« Reply #3632 on: May 18, 2011, 09:37:46 AM »
Well to be honest with you I don't know enough about that particular situation (strikers on loan) to draw any conclusions. Theoretically it makes sense to me but I can't comment intelligently on how successful a practice it is. I have seen Wellbeck a couple times and he looked very good. Same of Daniel Sturridge. Whether or not this fits into opportunities with their parent clubs I guess time will tell (Although Sturridge might have a better time given Kalou's poor performances for Chelski). As for Vela, I watched him a few times on loan this season and I haven't been impressed. I still think he has the ability as I have seen what he is capable of on occasion for Arsenal and Mexico but he has had more than enough chances to prove himself, and given that I believe Arsenal has to make some hard decisions about players this summer, especially with strikers, I think he has not done enough to warrant a place in the team.

Bendtner, to me, is good but not a top level striker. I like him as a player and a personality and I hope he stays but given his self regard and ambitions I don't think he will fit well with Arsenal's needs. He may flourish at another club and to be honest, when he was the only fit striker for the late portion of last season he was doing the business.

yes Wilshere and Ramsey went on loan but I was really looking at forwards developing at big clubs. They just don't get the time at big clubs unless you could see that they good enough at 17-21 and they get the playing time. Bendtner in the squad now but he is 23 and he spend a long stretch on loan. He is clearly not good enough and is not getting time at Arsenal. Even Vela is 22 and went on several loans, doing well at every stop. How does he stack up to the strikers at the other big clubs right now? You think Arsenal could put their hopes in him next season?

"In general" the young strikers who make it all the through at big clubs are the ones who have prodigious talent and play as full members of the first team squad from young.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 09:45:17 AM by dansteel »
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline JDB

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4607
  • Red, White and Black till death
    • View Profile
    • We Reach
Re: VICTORIA CONCORDIA CRESCIT
« Reply #3633 on: May 18, 2011, 11:13:44 AM »
Well to be honest with you I don't know enough about that particular situation (strikers on loan) to draw any conclusions. Theoretically it makes sense to me but I can't comment intelligently on how successful a practice it is. I have seen Wellbeck a couple times and he looked very good. Same of Daniel Sturridge. Whether or not this fits into opportunities with their parent clubs I guess time will tell (Although Sturridge might have a better time given Kalou's poor performances for Chelski). As for Vela, I watched him a few times on loan this season and I haven't been impressed. I still think he has the ability as I have seen what he is capable of on occasion for Arsenal and Mexico but he has had more than enough chances to prove himself, and given that I believe Arsenal has to make some hard decisions about players this summer, especially with strikers, I think he has not done enough to warrant a place in the team.

Bendtner, to me, is good but not a top level striker. I like him as a player and a personality and I hope he stays but given his self regard and ambitions I don't think he will fit well with Arsenal's needs. He may flourish at another club and to be honest, when he was the only fit striker for the late portion of last season he was doing the business.


I mostly going off my experience watching United players. The only young forwards to come through at United in the past 20 years are Scholes, Rooney and Ronaldo. All went straight into the first team squad.

Then it have a long list of others who rip up in the youth team, the reserves and went on loan to develop and just never make it to the first team. Healy, Nardiello, Ebanks-Blake, Campbell, Danny Webber.

Then I look at Rossi. He was only getting small sweat and loans as a 18 and 19 year old. Make a permanent move to a smaller club and start playing full time as a 20 year old and now he is one of the best players in the world. He would have never developed his craft as well competing with Berbatov, Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo.
THE WARRIORS WILL NOT BE DENIED.

Offline D.H.W

  • Forever Man Utd
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 17937
  • "Luck Favours The Prepared"
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3634 on: May 18, 2011, 11:32:59 AM »
Sooo , this thread was made in 2007, 120 pages & no trophy has been won. Hmmm. Sorry i could not resist  :devil:
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
Youtube Channel


Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3635 on: May 18, 2011, 12:59:40 PM »
Oh yeah. We had totally forgotten this tired old saw about no trophies. Here I was going merrily along thinking we had won Quadruples every year since 2008. Thanks for fixing that! Classless dickhead.

Sooo , this thread was made in 2007, 120 pages & no trophy has been won. Hmmm. Sorry i could not resist  :devil:
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline D.H.W

  • Forever Man Utd
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 17937
  • "Luck Favours The Prepared"
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3636 on: May 18, 2011, 01:34:35 PM »
 :rotfl: ah sorry , forgive me
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
Youtube Channel


Offline GunnerStunner

  • Mr Gunner
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2003
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3637 on: May 18, 2011, 04:04:17 PM »
Sooo , this thread was made in 2007, 120 pages & no trophy has been won. Hmmm. Sorry i could not resist  :devil:

sooo fergie + 20years + xtrophies = 1Billion in debt  :clown:

Offline D.H.W

  • Forever Man Utd
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 17937
  • "Luck Favours The Prepared"
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3638 on: May 18, 2011, 04:42:37 PM »
 ;D
"Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid."
Youtube Channel


Offline GunnerStunner

  • Mr Gunner
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2003
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3639 on: May 19, 2011, 07:46:32 AM »
no news is good news?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 10:35:57 AM by GunnerStunner »

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3640 on: May 19, 2011, 08:32:53 AM »
Well I suppose we may see Ryo after all.

Arsene Wenger impressed by Ryo Miyaichi progress as Japan striker presses claims for place in first-team squad

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/8523791/Arsene-Wenger-impressed-by-Ryo-Miyaichi-progress-as-Japan-striker-presses-claims-for-place-in-first-team-squad.html

By Telegraph staff and agencies 1:58PM BST 19 May 2011

The 18-year-old striker was loaned to Feyenoord after signing a long-term deal with Arsenal in January and has impressed in the Dutch top flight.

Wenger revealed if all goes well, then the club could consider applying for a work permit for Miyaichi ahead of the 2011/2012 campaign.

"I have only [heard] positive reports about him. He will be with us in pre-season," the Frenchman said.

"I think he is good enough, but if he is ready enough to have a place in our team, we will ask for a work permit and try to get him in.

"What I like about Ryo is that he has good timing with his runs and understands when to go and where to go. That is something very important.

"He is a boy who went straight from school football to professional football and straight away was the best player in Feyenoord."

Miyaichi has been called up to the Japanese Under-23 squad aiming to qualify for the 2012 Olympics, which could in turn boost his application with the Home Office.

Wenger added: "He looks a very promising boy and everybody who went to watch him has been hugely impressed by him. Ryo is a character and a great football player."
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline Touches

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
  • Trow wine on she...
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3641 on: May 19, 2011, 12:06:20 PM »
Me ent want to hear bout no youth, no promise, no talent.

Bring in a proven big shotta.

Dais the difference between side dat does win ting and also rans....

Every big squad in the world have a top 20+ striker and a supporting cast who giving you 10+

Van Persie is a big striker but he is crocked...and cannot last.

without him we ent have shit...Chamak is a try hard, but he ent no deadly fwd, bendtner is a shithound and dais it Arsenal have nuttin else. Walcott have speed and skill but he dunce and is not a fwd yet.

No wonder we cyar win shit...In fact Wenger could get a man like Bent, Carlton Cole even Kenwyne and get more goals than what he currently have.

Goal Scoring is an Art...finding the back of the net is a talent few have, yuh hadda pay BIG MONEY to get that.

When yuh pay peanuts yuh get monkeys, and when yuh offer hay/grass yuh does get Goats.

Wenger should ask Harry Bout Scouting players and getting good men for Cheap.


A for apple, B for Bat, C for yuhself!

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3642 on: May 19, 2011, 12:22:15 PM »
Agreed. All big teams except Arsenal have at least 2 big strikers. All we have is RvP. In the glory days we had Thierry and Dennis the Menace. I like Chamakh though. I think he will be great in a year or 2 but we need someone now. Agree with you about Bent. Always wondered why he didn't play at a bigger name club, the man is ah Arsenal fan from small too. Carlton Cole and Kenwyne I ent so sure bout nah. To me dem is mid table strikers at best. Bendtner as well He could play backup.

They need to start training Theo as a striker SOON. Him playing up front with Robin as a pure #10 could tear defences apart. They would have to play deep to counter his pace, which would give van Persie huge amounts of space to operate in. Think of how Rooney plays when he's behind Hernandez, or Bergy back in the day behind Thierry. I know that is Cesc spot and he can do the same there, if they put RvP out on the left wing. That would create a plan B formation without having to play any subs.

Me ent want to hear bout no youth, no promise, no talent.

Bring in a proven big shotta.

Dais the difference between side dat does win ting and also rans....

Every big squad in the world have a top 20+ striker and a supporting cast who giving you 10+

Van Persie is a big striker but he is crocked...and cannot last.

without him we ent have shit...Chamak is a try hard, but he ent no deadly fwd, bendtner is a shithound and dais it Arsenal have nuttin else. Walcott have speed and skill but he dunce and is not a fwd yet.

No wonder we cyar win shit...In fact Wenger could get a man like Bent, Carlton Cole even Kenwyne and get more goals than what he currently have.

Goal Scoring is an Art...finding the back of the net is a talent few have, yuh hadda pay BIG MONEY to get that.

When yuh pay peanuts yuh get monkeys, and when yuh offer hay/grass yuh does get Goats.

Wenger should ask Harry Bout Scouting players and getting good men for Cheap.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 12:32:43 PM by dansteel »
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline dinho

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 8591
  • Yesterday is Yesterday and Today is Today!
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3643 on: May 19, 2011, 01:21:27 PM »
I disagree with allyuh men.

Scoring is and never has been a problem for Arsenal. The team is dependent on Van Persie for the bulk of goals but even when he was out, all them small nippy men in the side pick up the slack. You could probably count on one hand the number of times Arsenal were held goalless home and away all season and I am sure if you pull a statistics of chances per match Arsenal right on top.

What Arsenal have to do is spend some judgement paper and buy a world class goalkeeper, a world class central defender and a world class defensive mid...... But wait, lemme stop here because this is probably the same post i make in this thread the last 3 years running. I said at the start of the year, if Arsenal dig in their pocket and shell out for Yaya Toure, a namebrand center back and a keeper they would win the league easily.

Arsenal need to stop lying to fans and acting like they so financially constrained when they are probably the most profitably run club in the EPL. If Wenger was to ups and ride out tomorrow there is no coach who would make their cheapness a sustainable habit, and they would have to spend paper just like everybody else to compete. Spend some judgement paper and win something which will bring prize money and the knock on revenue from merchandising etc. But no men wanna line their pockets.

Either that or just come out and admit to the world that the club is more interested in generating a profit than winning trophies and stop playing their fans for a bunch of fools. Imagine this club was bending on paying an extra $1m for Mark Schwarzer... That buy was worth at least 5-10 extra points in the league and the Carling Cup trophy... Madness!
         

Offline dwn

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
  • "Hands that help are holier than lips that pray"
    • View Profile
    • Arsenal Now!
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3644 on: May 19, 2011, 03:45:44 PM »
My opinions in rambling form .....

1. Arsenal better with Chamakh on the field. For all the goals van Persie scored, the team is better off with a point man in the lineup. Moving forward, Wenger has to find a way to play them both.

2. Bendtner real improve, he is not a bad player, but he is not as good as Chamakh. The difference is that Chamakh has quicker feet and works harder.

3. Arshavin is being wasted on the wing. He lost some of his speed and he doesn't have the physicality to battle it out with more athletic players. But he is one of the most talented players on Arsenal's team and has an eye for goal when in the final third. It's a pitty arsenal has so many attacking central midfielders because he would be able to make a much better impact playing behind the striker.

4. If players can stay fit, Arsenal doesn't need another center back that bad as they need a deep lying central midfielder. Djourou, Vermalen & Koscielny at CB is better than having just Song as a DM. While Djourou and Koscielny are getting better, Denilson is regressing. And I don't consider Diaby, Wilshere or Ramsey to be defensive minded.

5. For all the talent these guys have, I don't think Wilshere & Ramsey, as a central midfield partnership, have what it takes to lead Arsenal to the league title - at least not yet. Which leads to another point.

5. Arsenal should try their best to Fabregas. I don't care how talented Nasri is, he does not have the football brain that Fabregas has.

6. Gibbs is not a very good defender. Was he converted from left mid to defence? If so, it shows.

7. Arsenal needs a left winger. As mentioned before Arshavin doesn't seem to handle it when up against physical players, bendtner is not a winger, and Nasri, Rosicky etc are really more suited to the central attacking mid role. What about Wilshere on left wing? I think I recall Wenger saying he didn't have the pace for it. But remember how well he did there in the Emirates cup? And with his work rate and fight he will help the left back defensively. Or maybe Vela could finally fulfill his potential. Or sign Downing? Adam Johnson?

8. Maybe Arsenal needs to change their formation.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 03:49:05 PM by dwn »

Offline GunnerStunner

  • Mr Gunner
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2003
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3645 on: May 19, 2011, 05:32:44 PM »
all specualtion wil lead to heart burn n sleepless nights lol

only specualtion worth making is when transfer window close and we see who stay who gone and who come in

that said

boot out squillachi, keep JD TV n LK buy samba/cahill,

keep sagna clichy, sell if yuh can eboue but he is a utility and can help out (if he not on bezerko mode) send gibbs back to reserves, buy a true left back

keep cesc, nasri, song, wilshire, ramsey, frimpong let go rosicky n denilson buy a back up for song and a left winger

fack way with bendtner and vela, too much space for no return, keep AA Chamkh n RVP, buy another big name striker, let JET make some subs and build confidence


then make sure everybody bloodthirsty and starving for success not settling for moderation

Offline Observer

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5428
  • The best gift for a footballer is Intelligence ---
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3646 on: May 19, 2011, 07:12:06 PM »
all specualtion wil lead to heart burn n sleepless nights lol

only specualtion worth making is when transfer window close and we see who stay who gone and who come in

that said

boot out squillachi, keep JD TV n LK buy samba/cahill,

keep sagna clichy, sell if yuh can eboue but he is a utility and can help out (if he not on bezerko mode) send gibbs back to reserves, buy a true left back

keep cesc, nasri, song, wilshire, ramsey, frimpong let go rosicky n denilson buy a back up for song and a left winger

fack way with bendtner and vela, too much space for no return, keep AA Chamkh n RVP, buy another big name striker, let JET make some subs and build confidence


then make sure everybody bloodthirsty and starving for success not settling for moderation


Hulk, Fernando LLORENTE  or Falcao are good options up front. Samba and Sergiy Kryvtsov,  I like very much.
Some holding Mids options are Franco Zuculini, Ognjen Vukojević, Gojko Kacar
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead
                                              Thomas Paine

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3647 on: May 19, 2011, 08:35:53 PM »
Not sure I fully agree with it but interesting.

The Arsenal Column
Arsenal Analysis, Tactics and Editorials

Crossing is football’s greatest divide
May 18, 2011

http://arsenalcolumn.co.uk/?p=8703

An interesting sub-context to this season has been the running battle between Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur fans to “prove” who is the “better player”; Theo Walcott or Gareth Bale. Of course, such debates can only be subjective but Spurs currently have the bragging rights on this one as Bale is the PFA Player of the Year. However, if such awards were decided by numbers than intuitive feelings, then perhaps the outcome would have been closer, with arguably Theo Walcott nipping it ahead of the Welshman. (Although we do realise, statistics are not all-conclusive on their own and it is a matter of interpretation).
 

In the league, Walcott has played two-thirds of the minutes Bale has played – a victory in its own right for the Tottenham winger – but still trumps him on goals scored, 8-7, and has made seven assists to Bale’s paltry one. However, Bale has created more chances which, in some ways, displays his consistency although it is probably higher because there is a greater concomitant responsibility to create at Tottenham than at Arsenal where there are more ball-players. In this regard, Bale leads 49-19 although it is much closer in the dribbling success stakes with Walcott having a 37% success rate and Bale marginally more with 39%.
 
What this shows is that while Bale’s numbers are not any more impressive, he does offer more of a visceral joy to fans and that’s perhaps why he has been so captivating this season. On the other hand, the use of the same criteria to judge Walcott has often been his downfall as, although he can occasionally frustrate, his game carries more intricacies than many first realise. But there is a much more interesting reason for looking at these numbers, beyond a way of appraising the two talents, because they confirm to me something that I have always long suspected.
 
Walcott’s game is more about timing runs and delivering measured passes free of the full-back while Bale’s is more cavalier; more concerned with getting to the by-line and putting the ball into the box. Therefore bearing the two styles in mind; if you take the relative chances the two players create in comparison to the assists they make, it proves to me that Bale’s supposed strength – delivering crosses into the box – is highly inefficient at producing goals.
 
That’s not to be construed as an attack on Bale because his explosiveness and ability stretch play has been key to Spurs’ success while the team itself has profited massively from crosses, usually in the form of knock-downs by Peter Crouch. But his statistics can be used a general observation because they are eerily similar to the overall Premier League crossing figures.
 
In the league this season, 27% of all goals scored have come from crosses – a fair proportion one would have to agree but that is put into perspective when you consider that 1.6% of ALL crosses lead to goals – a very low ratio indeed. Bale’s return is close to 2% – 1 assist out of 49 – and that’s not counting those unsuccessful, which will have pushed his percentage even further down. You could compare his figures to Theo Walcott’s which is at 42% but even that is skewed as the Arsenal player has attempted a high number of crosses that have led to nothing. Even so, it gives a good idea of the efficiencies of the two styles thus confirming a thing or two about crossing. Firstly, it’s an art very reliant on quantity – arguably more so than the quality of the cross – while the strategy is of the most success if you are willing to have the patience to persevere, all the while, relying on a bit of luck as well.
 
Crossing: The everyman’s strategy
 
When Arsenal drew with Tottenham 3-3 in a pulsating encounter last month, a total of 28 crosses were delivered and the fact that two of them led to goals suggests, however, that crossing is maybe not such an ineffective tactic. Inefficient perhaps, but that’s the thing with crossing; it only needs to work once in a match for it to be deemed worthwhile because it’s an easily discernible tactic.  Indeed, if football’s primary objective is to score, what’s more identifiable than a ball aimed into the danger area as often as possible thus (theoretically) increasing the likelihood of a goal? In Britain, it’s that sort of thinking that perhaps helps explain why many fans might resonate more with a direct game than a tentative and prolonged passing sequence because the purpose is far more conspicuous.
 
Arsenal have often been accused of not doing enough with their crossing; a claim which has its basis because the team rarely gambles in the box as much is it should do. Yet, Arsenal’s style is not that it encourages crosses in its spate loads, as we’ve deciphered a crossing game requires.  Their way of playing the ball on the ground, featuring moves with an emphasis on quick, accurate passes mean crosses are inevitably reduced to just another, occasional way of varying play. There are times, however, when Arsenal are in promising wide positions but instead of working the ball around, they hastily deliver the ball into the box. The team would be better off holding onto the ball, looking for a gap to open up rather than putting the ball in which, most of the time, will be cleared thus restarting the move. Perhaps the aimless crossing is symptomatic of the increasing anxiety amongst the fans rubbing off onto the players which is muddling up the identity. Certainly, there is a visible rush of panic whenever Bakary Sagna or Gael Clichy in particular pick up the ball, weighing up whether to hold onto it or appease the masses and put the ball into the mixer. By crossing, though, they may be passing up an opportunity to create a better chance elsewhere.
 
Of course, you could say that the title was won and lost by Manchester United and Arsenal respectively due to the effectiveness of wing-play. United’s success this season has been all about stretching the play thus making them unpredictable and getting the ball into the box, a notion backed up by the fact they have scored the most headed goals this season. Against Everton, a late headed goal by Javier Hernandez from an Antonio Valencia cross, allowed them to maintain their distance over their rivals while Arsenal, in the following week, relinquished (an albeit late) lead to draw with Liverpool. Arsenal’s troubles in that game and indeed, the two goalless draws beforehand at the Emirates (Sunderland and Blackburn), was that they failed to break down the packed defence. Those frustrations are the main reasons why fans might clamour for a more direct game although looking at the statistics for the Liverpool game in particular, the team plundered 31 crosses from open play but alas, to no avail. If crossing is the solution, why didn’t it come to The Gunners rescue to save their season?
 
What Liverpool, and the other teams who have faced Arsenal at home, successfully did is deny the space behind; the area which Arsenal have had the most success this campaign. Their style, which was particularly effective earlier this season, was to get the two wide-men, usually Samir Nasri and Theo Walcott, in between the full-back and central defender to get in through on goal. “Like every player that is good on the ball he was too much attracted by the ball,” said Wenger of Samir Nasri’s role. “We wanted him to do more runs off the ball, going in behind [the defence] without the ball because we have many players who can give him the ball.”
 
Arsenal’s forte is the combination play around the flanks; although they have the second worst crossing success rate in the league behind Manchester City at 19%, completing 156 out of 813 crosses, the example highlights two clubs who have put a great emphasis on the interplay on the flanks as opposed to just putting the ball in. The trend is also the same at the top level. Take the Champions League for example; the preference for combination play has led to the almost universal use of wingers playing on the opposite side or “inverted wingers” as it has been coined by some.  As a result, goals from crosses, traditionally the most fruitful route to goal in the competition, have decreased by 20% from the previous season. And due to the propensity for those wingers to cut inside and create openings, perhaps it’s no surprise that goals from long range now account to 23.4% of goals scored in the Champions League in 2009/10. City, who now look likely to qualify directly ahead of Arsenal in the competition, play both David Silva and Adam Johnson, on the wrong, the latter of which Roberto Mancini has highlighted as a key member of their dynamics.
 
Barcelona have shown the importance of wide-men as contributing to goals although it must be recognised the key difference between the roles of their wide-men and those of that at Manchester United or Tottenham Hotspur for example. The two English clubs deploy box-to-box wingers while Pep Guardiola’s side and Arsenal, with Theo Walcott in particularly, utilise wide forwards who have less onus to create.
 
There will be times, however, when Arsenal style falters and crossing becomes a viable tactic as we’ve seen in the 2-2 comeback against West Bromwich Albion and the late consolation with Aston Villa recently. The 4-4-2 can become the Plan B although it seems Arsenal may not have the personnel to execute a direct game. Marouanne Chamakh prefers linking the play as his primary mode of playing and that’s perhaps why him and Robin van Persie hasn’t quite worked as a front two. The two examples where Arsenal succeeded with crossing does have one constant: Nicklas Bendtner who was the target in each of those games and was his mercurial best when The Gunners defeated Leyton Orient 5-0. The Dane, however, will himself admit he hasn’t done enough to hold down a place but will argue more strongly, he hasn’t been given enough chances to be Arsenal’s alternative option.
 
If anything, the responsibility of crossing has been shifted to the full-backs as they are the players in the modern game who usually have the most space. As Jonathan Wilson writes for World Soccer magazine, “overlapping is the norm” and certainly, with opponents general defending deep and narrow against Arsenal, it becomes more apt to get the full-backs involved. However, Bakary Sagna and Gael Clichy, despite the improvements in their distribution, continue to frustrate as crosses are most of the time wasted. But we probably shouldn’t be too harsh on them because teams are purposely set-up that way. You’ll often hear, whenever sides play Arsenal, that their game plan is to concede the flanks, defending deep and narrow so crosses have little to aim at. The dense crowding of modern-day penalty areas mean the object of most crosses become more about hope than about accuracy but for Arsenal perhaps it’s more the case. Manchester United might get away with endless streams of crosses into the box because their play is open, more unpredictable and playing the ball into the box continuously is unrelenting on the defence. Arsenal are easier to read as crosses become almost a last resort; when ideas start to wane and passing options more crowded. If that’s the case, the opponent is usually doing their job.
 
If Arsenal want to improve their all-round game, they should learn from the 1-0 win over Manchester United. It’s interesting Arséne Wenger keeps on mentioning these three games as Arsenal’s blueprint for the coming season – Chelsea 3-1, Barcelona 2-1 and Manchester United 1-0 – and in regards to the latter, The Gunners were lauded for a greater commitment to crossing despite not actually profiting. However, by concentrating at what they do best thus getting more options around the box, they looked more menacing with the ball played in from wide areas. Wenger has declared Arsenal won’t buy a wide player next season although I’d argue they do need to; though one who offers more of a dynamic threat, improving on the style now rather than just putting the ball in the box. Of course, that’s not to say crossing as a whole should be abandoned; just that it shouldn’t be seen as a primary mode of playing but as a way of complementing Arsenal’s play when it’s dynamic and interchanging.
 
Arsenal must stick to their identity rather than looking to appease the masses and trying to find a middle ground. It just doesn’t suit the team’s style and they would be better off holding the ball, looking to open up space with their passing and movement. Indeed, when your style is as beautiful and enthralling as The Gunners’ who needs to cross the ball – an often inaccurate and haphazard way of finding a team-mate? Not Arsenal.
 

*NB: Statistics with thanks to OPTA and @Orbinho. Overall Premier League crossing figures are correct of 25 April and Walcott/Bale comparisons on 10 April
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3648 on: May 20, 2011, 08:26:55 AM »
So Denilson announced today he is leaving Arsenal by "mutual consent" for a better chance of silverware. I'm not sure if he means for him or the club.

 :rotfl:

First piece of deadweight cut. Hope we get a good fee for him but I wouldn't be too optimistic about that.
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline JDB

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4607
  • Red, White and Black till death
    • View Profile
    • We Reach
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3649 on: May 20, 2011, 08:39:34 AM »
I reading this statement and it reading like a April Fools Joke.

Denilson heading for Euro move

Denilson will leave Arsenal this summer after the 'worst season of his life' and a fifth year at the Emirates Stadium without winning a trophy.

Denilson joined Arsenal in the summer of 2006 from Sao Paulo and has grown tired of the club's lack of success. The Gunners have not won a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005.

"This has been the worst season of my life, and I am so upset," the 23-year-old said in The Sun.

"I am a winner and I came here to win trophies but I've been here for five years and won nothing. Until Arsenal stop throwing away silly points in stupid games nothing will change.

"I've simply been to see Arsene Wenger and told him how I felt and he's agreed to let me go.

"A footballer's career is over very quickly so it is time for me to move on. I made up my mind eight months ago. I was fed up of coming home and feeling down.

"I know some people think I'm crazy. I need a fresh challenge and although I know I'm taking a big gamble I am ready to take that risk.

"I can't see myself returning in a Chelsea shirt, or Liverpool or Manchester City - and definitely not Tottenham. I think my future will be in Spain or Italy."

THE WARRIORS WILL NOT BE DENIED.

giggsy11

  • Guest
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3650 on: May 20, 2011, 09:38:43 AM »
I reading this statement and it reading like a April Fools Joke.

Denilson heading for Euro move

Denilson will leave Arsenal this summer after the 'worst season of his life' and a fifth year at the Emirates Stadium without winning a trophy.

Denilson joined Arsenal in the summer of 2006 from Sao Paulo and has grown tired of the club's lack of success. The Gunners have not won a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005.

"This has been the worst season of my life, and I am so upset," the 23-year-old said in The Sun.

"I am a winner and I came here to win trophies but I've been here for five years and won nothing. Until Arsenal stop throwing away silly points in stupid games nothing will change.

"I've simply been to see Arsene Wenger and told him how I felt and he's agreed to let me go.

"A footballer's career is over very quickly so it is time for me to move on. I made up my mind eight months ago. I was fed up of coming home and feeling down.

"I know some people think I'm crazy. I need a fresh challenge and although I know I'm taking a big gamble I am ready to take that risk.

"I can't see myself returning in a Chelsea shirt, or Liverpool or Manchester City - and definitely not Tottenham. I think my future will be in Spain or Italy."


Arsenal fans must be devestated!

Offline Disgruntled_Trini

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4053
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3651 on: May 20, 2011, 09:58:04 AM »

When yuh pay peanuts yuh get monkeys, and when yuh offer hay/grass yuh does get Goats.


hahahahahahahahahahah  :rotfl:

Arsenal have real gots to get rid of.

Is best they cut them from all now before looking to bring in fresh blood and integrate them with the goats, thereby contaminating the process.

From them keepers to some of them strikers need to look for a new club.


Més que un club.

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3652 on: May 20, 2011, 10:31:36 AM »
I am devastated he ruled out going to Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City and Spurs. He didn't mention your side though Giggsy. A ray of hope for us Gooners? He's really good and Scholes is probably retiring this year. Just saying...

I reading this statement and it reading like a April Fools Joke.

Denilson heading for Euro move

Denilson will leave Arsenal this summer after the 'worst season of his life' and a fifth year at the Emirates Stadium without winning a trophy.

Denilson joined Arsenal in the summer of 2006 from Sao Paulo and has grown tired of the club's lack of success. The Gunners have not won a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005.

"This has been the worst season of my life, and I am so upset," the 23-year-old said in The Sun.

"I am a winner and I came here to win trophies but I've been here for five years and won nothing. Until Arsenal stop throwing away silly points in stupid games nothing will change.

"I've simply been to see Arsene Wenger and told him how I felt and he's agreed to let me go.

"A footballer's career is over very quickly so it is time for me to move on. I made up my mind eight months ago. I was fed up of coming home and feeling down.

"I know some people think I'm crazy. I need a fresh challenge and although I know I'm taking a big gamble I am ready to take that risk.

"I can't see myself returning in a Chelsea shirt, or Liverpool or Manchester City - and definitely not Tottenham. I think my future will be in Spain or Italy."


Arsenal fans must be devestated!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 11:21:12 AM by dansteel »
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3653 on: May 20, 2011, 10:33:29 AM »
dwn just reflecting on what you wrote.

I’m not sure if they are better with Chamakh on the field because of Chamakh or that van Persie is better as a second striker. Chamakh is our best striker to lead the line. I think he will get better, but silverware demands might be getting too loud to be patient about that. You’re right about Bendtner being a decent striker, but having 2 strikers who do pretty much the same thing doesn’t make much sense.

Arshavin’s 2 best games this season were at Villa and home to Fulham when he was in the space behind the main striker (both Nasri and Fabregas were injured I think). He was devastating. I don’t think he has lost much pace either, he just isn’t a winger. It is also the position in which he made his name at Zenit and for Russia. It was downright depressing watching him dismantle Holland in Euro 2008 from that position and he looked the same in those 2 PL games. But that’s Fabregas spot.

Djourou, Vermaelen and Koscielny are all good centre backs. Not world class but close. Squillaci is definitely the weak link, but TV’s injury has exposed them a great deal. Bent’s goals last Sunday were only the 3rd and 4th league goals Arsenal has conceded at home in 2011 (10 games). The first was a dodgy offside goal and second was a penalty. To me, Squillaci was signed to make up numbers and I think Wenger, judging by his language in interviews, has written him off as such. My only issue with that is that they should probably stick Ignasi Miquel in there if they aren’t going to sign a quality player. He probably wouldn’t be much worse and he’s at the start of his career, not the end.

One of Arsenal’s biggest defensive weaknesses has always been the space in front of the centre backs. Look at how many goals they concede from through balls or long shots from midfielders in space. That to me implies what you said about an extra defensive midfielder. It’s not the centre back’s job to defend that space (Vermaelen trying to do that last year is what allowed Messi to destroy them 4-1).

You’re right about Gibbs. He’s a converted winger. Wenger likes to turn attacking or creative players into defenders to ensure technical skill throughout the side. It worked very well in his best team (2001-2004) where only one of his starting defenders (Campbell) was originally a defender (Cashley started as a left-footed striker in the youth teams and Toure and Lauren were both attacking central midfielders). Cashley is probably the most spectacular example of that success, but Gibbs tackling, positioning and decisions are quite poor.

Yes Wilshere’s work rate and physicality would help make up for his lack of pace on that left wing. He played a few league games there early this year and didn’t do badly but yes, Arsenal could do with a left winger. Or if they need a more attacking player they could pull van Persie out there with Chamakh through the middle. Arsenal’s narrow style means they are dependent on attacking fullbacks, and while Sagna is the pick of the division, the left backs don’t measure up.

Arsenal has almost too many attacking central midfielders and only one true winger (Walcott) who Wenger seems intent on turning into a striker. I think this team is really best suited to a 4321 Christmas tree formation such as early 2000s AC Milan with Fabregas in the Pirlo role. With a central midfield packed with creators it was very difficult to stop them. That team really only became great though, when they got a second holding midfielder (Ambrosini) to help out Gattuso. My idea of Arsenal’s best formation is:

GK – Szczesny
4 – Sagna – Djourou/(Koscielny) – Vermaelen – Clichy
3 – Song – Fabregas/(Wilshere) – 2nd Defensive Mid
2 – Nasri/(van Persie) – Arshavin/(Ramsey)
1 – Chamakh/(Walcott)

Here’s a discussion of that ACM team : http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/01/22/teams-of-the-decade-14-milan-2002-07/

Of course this still isn’t ideal and would mean a lot of rotation, and probably another fullback or 2 but this season has taught us a lot about Arsenal’s weaknesses.
Victoria concordia crescit

giggsy11

  • Guest
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3654 on: May 20, 2011, 01:08:24 PM »
I am devastated he ruled out going to Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City and Spurs. He didn't mention your side though Giggsy. A ray of hope for us Gooners? He's really good and Scholes is probably retiring this year. Just saying...

I reading this statement and it reading like a April Fools Joke.

Denilson heading for Euro move

Denilson will leave Arsenal this summer after the 'worst season of his life' and a fifth year at the Emirates Stadium without winning a trophy.

Denilson joined Arsenal in the summer of 2006 from Sao Paulo and has grown tired of the club's lack of success. The Gunners have not won a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005.

"This has been the worst season of my life, and I am so upset," the 23-year-old said in The Sun.

"I am a winner and I came here to win trophies but I've been here for five years and won nothing. Until Arsenal stop throwing away silly points in stupid games nothing will change.

"I've simply been to see Arsene Wenger and told him how I felt and he's agreed to let me go.

"A footballer's career is over very quickly so it is time for me to move on. I made up my mind eight months ago. I was fed up of coming home and feeling down.

"I know some people think I'm crazy. I need a fresh challenge and although I know I'm taking a big gamble I am ready to take that risk.

"I can't see myself returning in a Chelsea shirt, or Liverpool or Manchester City - and definitely not Tottenham. I think my future will be in Spain or Italy."


Arsenal fans must be devestated!

Nah man, he to good for our side! Although I wonder why he didn't rule out our side, think he might throw us a bone?

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3655 on: May 20, 2011, 01:43:20 PM »
I am devastated he ruled out going to Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City and Spurs. He didn't mention your side though Giggsy. A ray of hope for us Gooners? He's really good and Scholes is probably retiring this year. Just saying...

I reading this statement and it reading like a April Fools Joke.

Denilson heading for Euro move

Denilson will leave Arsenal this summer after the 'worst season of his life' and a fifth year at the Emirates Stadium without winning a trophy.

Denilson joined Arsenal in the summer of 2006 from Sao Paulo and has grown tired of the club's lack of success. The Gunners have not won a trophy since the FA Cup in 2005.

"This has been the worst season of my life, and I am so upset," the 23-year-old said in The Sun.

"I am a winner and I came here to win trophies but I've been here for five years and won nothing. Until Arsenal stop throwing away silly points in stupid games nothing will change.

"I've simply been to see Arsene Wenger and told him how I felt and he's agreed to let me go.

"A footballer's career is over very quickly so it is time for me to move on. I made up my mind eight months ago. I was fed up of coming home and feeling down.

"I know some people think I'm crazy. I need a fresh challenge and although I know I'm taking a big gamble I am ready to take that risk.

"I can't see myself returning in a Chelsea shirt, or Liverpool or Manchester City - and definitely not Tottenham. I think my future will be in Spain or Italy."


Arsenal fans must be devestated!

Nah man, he to good for our side! Although I wonder why he didn't rule out our side, think he might throw us a bone?

With our luck he will go United and Fergie will turn him into the next Xabi Alonso!
Victoria concordia crescit

Offline GunnerStunner

  • Mr Gunner
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2003
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3656 on: May 20, 2011, 05:25:47 PM »
Don't let the door hit you on the way out sour puss!

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3657 on: May 20, 2011, 07:07:24 PM »
My guess is Denilson realise that Wenger write him off. He just talking up his value for a transfer. You can't blame a player for not being good enough to compete at top level. As you said to me earlier Stunner, he coulda wait till the season done but the man doing what he has to do. I have said some uncharitable things about him but I wish him well. He is not good enough for Arsenal though.

The fact that Wenger is willing to write off players he used to defend and tell people "He's young. Have patience in him" tells me this summer should be different. Every single time I criticise Wenger the man does prove me wrong. Just win a next flickin trophy nah Professor! Long time we ent get some bling.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out sour puss!
Victoria concordia crescit

giggsy11

  • Guest
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3658 on: May 20, 2011, 07:18:18 PM »
Denilson must have looked at Rosicky and saw him self 5 years from now. I wonder how a man like Rosicky feel; he wasted 6 years of his prime years at Arsenal. The man just seem content to waste away; he never made a peep about trying tuh go somewhere else tuh change he luck nothing. He must be the creator of that 'In Arsene we trust" banner that hanging in the Emirates. 30ish and what he have tuh show for his career, winner of the Emirates cup in the off season?

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1032
    • View Profile
Re: ARSENAL FORWARD
« Reply #3659 on: May 20, 2011, 07:24:37 PM »
His prime years at Arsenal were wrecked by injury. Now he fit but he past it. His best years were in Germany and the great Czech team of 2004-2006. Sad but it happens to everybody. I feel Wenger must be giving him a bligh. Well we can't have no more passengers on the side.

Denilson must have looked at Rosicky and saw him self 5 years from now. I wonder how a man like Rosicky feel; he wasted 6 years of his prime years at Arsenal. The man just seem content to waste away; he never made a peep about trying tuh go somewhere else tuh change he luck nothing. He must be the creator of that 'In Arsene we trust" banner that hanging in the Emirates. 30ish and what he have tuh show for his career, winner of the Emirates cup in the off season?
Victoria concordia crescit

 

1]; } ?>