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Offline just cool

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2007, 05:51:26 AM »
Ah guess allyuh know better than roy keane, goerge burley and leo beenhakker put together,even the black cats boss by paying 6 mill for a midfeilder with a elephant first touch. the man just developed into a terrific striker that's all, such is football.  now if yuh say daryrl roberts is a mid feilder at best then i will opt to agree, but not kenwyne, the man is ah natrual born scorer, nigel fabien was smack on the money, great assestment with rush and lineka, that's so true.              positive.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 06:47:54 AM by just cool »
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Offline Fyzoman

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2007, 05:54:14 AM »
I think he'll make a good goalkeeper.....probably a good fast bowler too....  :-\

good one :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

ah just finish post in another Kenwyne Jones thread. so ah won't repeat mehself. my penny? just leave de man where he is nah, and let dem concacaf teams/defenders know what it feels like to have a big strong forward winning every head ball and chesting/laying balls off to supporting teamates.
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Offline Peong

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2007, 06:33:10 AM »
Allyuh in ah mess...lol   The man is clearly a top quality in-form striker.   I think he can fall into many different positions and perform well.  To say he is not a striker is pure madness.

Boss yuh embarassin the Fatima multitudes in here.
Just call yuhself arima.

Offline freakazoid

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2007, 06:45:14 AM »
how many goals has he scored for T&T??

He has not scored any goals fuh T&T, but den again he has only played 3 games as a striker. In those  games we have only scored two goals (both of them deflections).

football365.com has listed him as Southampton's hope fuh de future.

Hope For The Future: Kenwyne Jones
Seven goals in seven games for Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the lanky Trinidad striker, who later went to Stoke and scored another three goals. Not given a look-in at the Saints (because they were doing so well, obviously), but if Crouch goes, you'd have to fancy him to get a better chance in the Championship along with fellow, erm, young gun Dexter Blackstock.

didnt jones score the freekick against peru, when we drew 1-1?
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Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2007, 06:52:01 AM »
how many goals has he scored for T&T??

He has not scored any goals fuh T&T, but den again he has only played 3 games as a striker. In those  games we have only scored two goals (both of them deflections).

football365.com has listed him as Southampton's hope fuh de future.

Hope For The Future: Kenwyne Jones
Seven goals in seven games for Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the lanky Trinidad striker, who later went to Stoke and scored another three goals. Not given a look-in at the Saints (because they were doing so well, obviously), but if Crouch goes, you'd have to fancy him to get a better chance in the Championship along with fellow, erm, young gun Dexter Blackstock.

didnt jones score the freekick against peru, when we drew 1-1?

Yeah man
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2007, 07:01:05 AM »
how many goals has he scored for T&T??

He has not scored any goals fuh T&T, but den again he has only played 3 games as a striker. In those  games we have only scored two goals (both of them deflections).

football365.com has listed him as Southampton's hope fuh de future.

Hope For The Future: Kenwyne Jones
Seven goals in seven games for Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the lanky Trinidad striker, who later went to Stoke and scored another three goals. Not given a look-in at the Saints (because they were doing so well, obviously), but if Crouch goes, you'd have to fancy him to get a better chance in the Championship along with fellow, erm, young gun Dexter Blackstock.

didnt jones score the freekick against peru, when we drew 1-1?
At the time I made that statement, he had not yet scored for T&T. Since then he has scored 3 goals, against Bermuda, Peru and Panama.
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Offline grskywalker

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2007, 07:36:23 AM »
Regardless of if you agree with his English coaches, one thing is true, Jones has recently scored more than most of the others on the side, so I don't care if he have 15 toes, and could only play in ah pair ah Bata Bullets, we need goals and he scoring, so PUT HE UP-FRONT!

how many goals has he scored for T&T??

You missing the point. His development as a player and striker in the EPL under the harshest of oppositions is going to do him wonders. Already you could see he has added some bulk to his frame which makes him quite intimidating. Look at Crouch with his lingay self is unhinge defenses when he ready and he ain't half as skillful or fast as Jonsey. In Concacaf Jones is going to be a force to reckon with as long as he approach TNT games with as much fervor and hunger. I am of the opinion that with the range of strikers we have now, there is no need for us to go into games playing 4-5-1 and
with other midifielders like Birchie, Bleeder, Carlos  to name a few we should be able to do some real damage out there

Offline spideybuff

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2007, 08:19:50 AM »
Our only problem is we have too much strikers (Berris...tell Stern let the youths and them get a chance, nah man) so we need Kenwyne more in the midfield that up front.
But...the man is easily our best striker if he up top cause unlike everybody else (except Sealy) the man usually make the keeper save at least when he get his chance, he doh blast it wide or miskick or overdribble.

I cah wait to see the real national team again...i looking for a 4-3-3 that ManU and Chelsea playing with Scotty/Samuel/Glen on the left and Carlos on the right with Kenwyne through the middle as the target man, with Roberts and Sealy on the bench as alternatives.

Birchall, Spann and a true, hard tackling midfielder as the 3 men in the middle. All Spann and Birchall hadda do is hustle ppl and collect the ball when the DM tackle and then lay it off to the wide men and then get by the box to look for the rebound once the cross come in. Either Jones will get the header or lay it back for one of them to bus the bullet, or they will be there to hustle and collect when the opposing team head the cross out.

It sounds so simple, sigh...
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Offline fatimarima

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2007, 09:04:30 AM »
Allyuh in ah mess...lol   The man is clearly a top quality in-form striker.   I think he can fall into many different positions and perform well.  To say he is not a striker is pure madness.

Boss yuh embarassin the Fatima multitudes in here.
Just call yuhself arima.

lol.. boy, I jus read the initial post and respond to it without scrolling down or reading the date.   Then I realize is chain up ting when it was too late...lol.   :-[ ;D

Offline triniwings

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2007, 09:12:46 AM »
yeh....i colleck a shimmy too....

alya put dead post to rest in peace nah!

hehe

Offline trinikid

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2007, 09:37:31 AM »
Hope the man who make dis thread bitting he words  :devil:

Offline Jahyouth

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2007, 10:03:41 AM »
People not seeing the real issue here:

Can Kenwyne Jones play as a striker for Trinidad and Tobago and be as successful?

The position Kenwyne is playing now is the one striker role.  This is a much different role to the twin strikers that we usually play in the 4-4-2 formation.  The one striker role needs the following to fourish:

1) Good direct service from the defenders on the chest, directly to feet, or to head for a flick on;

2) Midfielders that are fit and aware enough to quickly support the sole striker in both defensive and attacking positions ; and

3) Enough movement from the midfielders to keep the defense honest so that the single striker does not find himself marked by two defenders at every turn.

Does the Trinidad and Tobago team fit this bill?  I don't think so.

1) Our defenders can barely make a decent 40 yard pass into the channels farless put it on a striker's chest, to his feet, or for a flick on;

2)  How quickly will our midfielders provide support for a single striker?  Even Stern who (for all his ills)has really mastered the art of screening and holding up the play often got frustrated at the lack of support from the midfielders.

3) Have most of our players learnt that the game is played most effectively without the ball yet?  I'm not too sure about that.

How will Kenwyne look in a 4-4-2?  And for all his prowess heading the ball, who do we have that can bring in decent crosses?  Not even Carlos can claim that.


Offline KND2

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2007, 10:05:15 AM »
he is still a better midfielder than forward in my opinion,

Not because he does good as a forward means he would not have done good as a midfielder.


Offline maxg

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2007, 10:22:49 AM »
Jahyouth, thks for taking the time to type it out

plus I am of the opinion, if we have other in form strikers who may not be able to contribute as midfielders, rather than place dem on the bench, find a use for everyone.

Offline Filho

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2007, 10:45:35 AM »
People not seeing the real issue here:

Can Kenwyne Jones play as a striker for Trinidad and Tobago and be as successful?

The position Kenwyne is playing now is the one striker role.  This is a much different role to the twin strikers that we usually play in the 4-4-2 formation.  The one striker role needs the following to fourish:

1) Good direct service from the defenders on the chest, directly to feet, or to head for a flick on;

2) Midfielders that are fit and aware enough to quickly support the sole striker in both defensive and attacking positions ; and

3) Enough movement from the midfielders to keep the defense honest so that the single striker does not find himself marked by two defenders at every turn.

Does the Trinidad and Tobago team fit this bill?  I don't think so.

1) Our defenders can barely make a decent 40 yard pass into the channels farless put it on a striker's chest, to his feet, or for a flick on;

2)  How quickly will our midfielders provide support for a single striker?  Even Stern who (for all his ills)has really mastered the art of screening and holding up the play often got frustrated at the lack of support from the midfielders.

3) Have most of our players learnt that the game is played most effectively without the ball yet?  I'm not too sure about that.

How will Kenwyne look in a 4-4-2?  And for all his prowess heading the ball, who do we have that can bring in decent crosses?  Not even Carlos can claim that.



Jones can play up front or in the midfield. He could probably still play in the back too. I prefer him up front but he'll play for T&T wherever the coach needs him most. but Jah..he versatile man. He's played well in different systems and was really good last year for Southhampton in a 4-4-2. Even for T&T he's played well ina  4-4-2. Look at his WC qualifier appearances under Beenhaker (mostly as a sub..but he was good against Bahrain in the 2nd leg from the start) and against England and Paraguay in the WC. He even started to score some goals for T&T (against Peru and Panama and during a few preWc friendlies). He doesn't need the ball on his head to score and is strong with either foot (case in point: his first goal for Sunderland this season). He's also young and improving. Hopefully KJ will keep up his progress. He is a potential star..And it's our good fortune that he can play in a variety of positions..

also..not sure why you don't think T&T can play a 4-5-1. beenhaker employed it a lot leading up to the WC. We beat Mexico paying a 4-5-1 in the final regular qualifier and we tied Sweden in Wc 2006 starting off with a 4-5-1..just to mention a couple. Dunno if that is something we will see a lot of in the future, but there are different ways to employ a lone striker. ManU did it with Ruud for example and they weren't launching balls at his head all day...I think u gave a somewhat limited view of the ways you can employ a lone striker in a 4-5-1
« Last Edit: October 22, 2007, 10:53:06 AM by Filho »

Offline MEP

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2007, 11:22:02 AM »
We can play a 4-5-1 now and play it well.  I think Jahyouth getting a little bit mixed up, being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played 40 yards from the defense onto the forward. It means that the transition from defense to offense is more fluid and relies on maintaining possession. It requires that Jones, who is becoming fully competent, is able to hold the ball long enough in order to bring numbers into the attack.

Offline Peong

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2007, 11:28:40 AM »
he is still a better midfielder than forward in my opinion,

Based on what??

Offline supporter

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2007, 11:41:42 AM »
Anybody besides me belive that Jones best use for TnT is in Central Midfield.

The position he used to play for St Anthonys.

Jones skills is good Speed Good fight and Youth Drive.

This is what will help us in the middle of the park

His weakness is Ball touch, composure and keeping possesion with no support.

If you look at the games he plays forward for TnT, He is not performing up to par and is never likely to score goals.

Not because a man went on a goal scoring tear means he is a good forward.

But his performance hustling the defenders and Tackling defenders for TnT is what he does best.

Look at his performance last time in Mexico.

Just last year Rangers was signing him as a Sweeper and he was playing defense for TnT and W connection.


We need to Unlease Jones in the middle of the park he will bring the Davids/ Viera Midfielder that we need to put pressure in the middle.

Playing Jones as a forward is a waste of time.

Let me see how long it takes Beenhakker to realise that jones best position is midfield,




Cornell Glen, Scotland and Samuel can all give something more up front to go with Stern or even push Yorke back up and Put Jones in the middle.



no way he plays out of striker. He puts balls in the back of the net. end of.
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Offline MEP

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2007, 12:19:59 PM »
This argument is totally inane...to talk about where Jones played when he was in high school bears no relevance absolutely none. If you'll remember Beckenbauer started off as a forward, then played mid-field and ended up as sweeper and this was during his professional career.

Offline maxg

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2007, 12:23:01 PM »
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?

ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"

Offline Jahyouth

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2007, 12:26:45 PM »
We can play a 4-5-1 now and play it well.  I think Jahyouth getting a little bit mixed up, being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played 40 yards from the defense onto the forward. It means that the transition from defense to offense is more fluid and relies on maintaining possession. It requires that Jones, who is becoming fully competent, is able to hold the ball long enough in order to bring numbers into the attack.

Not getting mixed up at all.  

Being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played into the top from the defenders all the time, but it relies on the fact that this can be done with consistency and accuracy.  If the defenders cannot do this it allows the other team to exert high presure on your midfielders leading to turnovers and counter attacks.  Why?  The long ball in a single striker formation is a release valve which allows the team to attack as a unit.  Without the long ball, the formation is very tight and compact, and in my opinion we doh have the requisite skill to play where space is very limited.




Offline KND2

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2007, 12:31:37 PM »
he is still a better midfielder than forward in my opinion,

Based on what??


The Thing people need to remember is that KJ playing midfield in the context or Playing for Trinidad and Tobago.

Based on his abilities and strength and the rest of players available he would be a better asset to Trinidad in Midfield.


When I look at kenwayne strength I look at speed strength, Heading and Shooting. Close touches dribbling and one touch finishing I would not consider him as strong.

In our central midfield we have no players that bring ball winning to the table, in the world cup we had Whitley but I do not think he can get it done in 2010, Birchal is not a ball winner and his speed is just not there.

Local players such as Trent Noel will probably not be able to get to the level,


When you look up front we have a few options

we still have scotland, Samuel can also play offensive. hector Sam has been playing in foreign for a long time now and has experience, Glasglow and Sealey, Not to mention any up and coming like Bartolemew and Stern John will also be present.

Up front we have options.

By putting Jones in Midfield we can get him more involved and be central to the game, he will still score goals because he has an outside shot and he will be in the same position as a midfield as he would a forward for dead balls corner free kick etc.

Putting him in forward is a waste especially when we play the likes of USA and Mexico because he would just be ball watching whole day as we will have very little ball possesion. Just fighting for long ball and hoping to get a counter goal.


better to put a man like stern up front because you know he walking any way and drop KJ back in midfield and get him involved in the match.


This is the same reason Bertile put Yorke in midfield at the start of the Hex last time around you need your best players to be involved in the game.

It made sense two years ago when this was written and it makes sense now because frankly TnT side has not improved in the last 2 years. We are essentially the same and maybe a little worst since the blacklist

Offline MEP

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2007, 01:24:03 PM »
KND
I understand your argument much better now but as a young player who isn't fully developed yet I don't think it would be fair to put in in that position. Yorke could have done it because he had the experience under his belt....

Offline MEP

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2007, 01:38:26 PM »
Quote
Not getting mixed up at all. 

Being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played into the top from the defenders all the time, but it relies on the fact that this can be done with consistency and accuracy.  If the defenders cannot do this it allows the other team to exert high presure on your midfielders leading to turnovers and counter attacks.  Why?  The long ball in a single striker formation is a release valve which allows the team to attack as a unit.  Without the long ball, the formation is very tight and compact, and in my opinion we doh have the requisite skill to play where space is very limited.



But playing over the top means that the forward encounters a 1v2 or 1 v 3 position and at the highest level that's a losing proposition for the forward so that it should not be done. With 5 in the middle it means that when the forward receives the ball he holds it long enough only to play it back and ideally it would be to the holding midfielder who, when he receives the ball is able to play it to other midfielders who have now moved into the attack. And you're right with five in the middle the idea is to remain compact defensively in the middle third.

Offline scooby

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2007, 04:05:30 PM »
His weakness is Ball touch, composure and keeping possesion with no support      Those are key ingredients to becoming a sucessfull midfielder. The intercol game and top flight especially international is hole different game all together he is looking more and more like a foward to me........................................................................football is more a kick in the grass its life                         

Offline Filho

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2007, 07:32:39 PM »
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?

ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"


against tough opposition like Mexico, US, Costa Rica...especially on the road..I would probably stick with 5 across the middle with either Jones or Stern up top depending on who playing the better club ball at the time. Right now I giving Jones the edge..but as you can see..Sten still bussin de net and I have no doubt he coulda score some goals for Sunderland this season. The other strikers we have seem more like they would need a partner up top. I think KJ and Stern are the only ones I could see playing a lone role up top.

If we play a 4-4-2, I will start with KJ and Stern up top. My first striker off the bench is Cornell. Sealy is number 2. I would play Darryl in the midfield. In a 4-5-1 if Stern real hot, I might even push KJ in a midfield role too so as not to waste him on the bench and use his versatility.

Offline berris

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2007, 07:50:58 PM »
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?

ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"


Maxg De only way we cud play ah 4-4-3 is if we eh use ah keeper or play wid 12 man. ;D ..ah like yuh thinking though  ;)
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Offline maxg

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Re: Jones is a Midfielder
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2007, 07:57:57 PM »
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?

ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"


against tough opposition like Mexico, US, Costa Rica...especially on the road..I would probably stick with 5 across the middle with either Jones or Stern up top depending on who playing the better club ball at the time. Right now I giving Jones the edge..but as you can see..Sten still bussin de net and I have no doubt he coulda score some goals for Sunderland this season. The other strikers we have seem more like they would need a partner up top. I think KJ and Stern are the only ones I could see playing a lone role up top.

If we play a 4-4-2, I will start with KJ and Stern up top. My first striker off the bench is Cornell. Sealy is number 2. I would play Darryl in the midfield. In a 4-5-1 if Stern real hot, I might even push KJ in a midfield role too so as not to waste him on the bench and use his versatility.
thks for the response Filho, is dat self ah mean, ah doh want to leave no hot player on the bench, so even if Jones is hottest, ah might go with ah 2nd best forward, to use use him in ah 5 man mid, of course he would be the most attacking mid...cause ah not sure of the capability of anyone else to play that transition..defensive mid to attacking mid...yet if he might have any more experience than anyone else is in that role....hope there is pastel and sorrell in we football future, buh many ppl still only have salt products to live with...specially with Nuts-characters runnin we TTFF...at least we have a choice with ah nutsman..
add: Berris yuh never know, we new boys defence might stand stronger than ever..all doh ah see El Salavador crack dem ah few times, ah cyah help feeling the youths starting to get the plot.

Offline Father Abraham

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kenwyn jones is a not a true striker, he seems lost, overrated in a big way
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2009, 11:52:14 PM »
i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.

for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.


Offline davidephraim

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i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.

for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.



ATB, dude im not jokin and it's not what i'm smokin but I really think your mad. :devil: :devil:
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