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Author Topic: Terry Fenwick Thread.  (Read 227928 times)

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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #990 on: December 27, 2019, 08:31:37 AM »
Other than to switch play or "release" attackers not much as far as i percieved anyway and "English" ah mean d stereotypical route 1 idea of it

As far as long forward passes, I recall seeing ONE long diagonal ball played from inside the left flank to the right side/right top of the penalty area. There wasn't any reliance on standard long ball played from inside Leeds' half into Southampton's.

Any dissenters?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #991 on: December 27, 2019, 08:34:01 AM »
Second question: Does anyone see any features or characteristics that are present in how football is played across T&T today? If so, what?

Offline lefty

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #992 on: December 27, 2019, 08:40:52 AM »
Other than to switch play or "release" attackers not much as far as i percieved anyway and "English" ah mean d stereotypical route 1 idea of it

As far as long forward passes, I recall seeing ONE long diagonal ball played from inside the left flank to the right side/right top of the penalty area. There wasn't any reliance on standard long ball played from inside Leeds' half into Southampton's.

Any dissenters?
not from me
I pity the fool....

Offline lefty

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #993 on: December 27, 2019, 08:43:52 AM »
Second question: Does anyone see any features or characteristics that are present in how football is played across T&T today? If so, what?
passes always seemed "high percentage" meaning there was always a chance to get on the end of them
I pity the fool....

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #994 on: December 27, 2019, 10:28:18 AM »
Second video (with a bonus video): Chelsea vs Wolves, played December 11, 1976. Mid-decade, but the twist here is that this is a Second Division match. Both Chelsea and Wolves would return to the English top flight at the end of this season.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/T4UnUhhxL9Q" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/T4UnUhhxL9Q</a>

Bonus video (not one of the four promised): Derby County vs Benfica; played October 25, 1972.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/0VrfPx7e3fo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/0VrfPx7e3fo</a>


Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #995 on: December 27, 2019, 10:30:02 AM »
Second question: Does anyone see any features or characteristics that are present in how football is played across T&T today? If so, what?
passes always seemed "high percentage" meaning there was always a chance to get on the end of them

How does running relate to the game?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #996 on: December 27, 2019, 02:16:56 PM »
And yes, that's Eusebio.

Offline lefty

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #997 on: December 27, 2019, 06:54:37 PM »
Second question: Does anyone see any features or characteristics that are present in how football is played across T&T today? If so, what?
passes always seemed "high percentage" meaning there was always a chance to get on the end of them

How does running relate to the game?
positional sense dictated the movement of the players for the most part
I pity the fool....

Offline Deeks

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #998 on: December 27, 2019, 07:19:46 PM »
And yes, that's Eusebio.

Derby County was a very good team in the 70s. They had a real good stopper named Roy MarcFarlane.

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #999 on: December 28, 2019, 07:26:34 AM »
Long ball as being English has always been a crude caricature that misunderstood the essentials of the English game, as I've mentioned on the forum before.

High tempo, physical, and direct (read: not long) are the more traditional characteristics. High tempo, in the sense that quick transition from defence to attack was preferrred. Physical, in the sense that referees have a higher tolerance for body challenges and defenders relied more on their tackling ability than positioning or intelligence to defend (see John Terry, who was more intelligent than people give credit, and Jamie Carragher). This also tied into the preference for big and strong players, which has negatively affected the development of technical players in the English game. Direct, as mentioned previously a lack of back passing - even now if teams pass back to their defenders they'll elicit groans and/or boos.

These characteristics can be difficult to play against if you aren't a high-quality team - it's why we traditionally struggled in Europe as we were playing the best of the continent. In the early stages though, we'd make mince-meat of teams without the technical proficiency to deal with it.

Trinidad wouldn't do well under such a system for long, and I don't think it would characterise Fenwick's tactics. From the games I've watched in T&T, the tempo is significantly slower than the English game and there's a greater emphasis on individual skill/talent to make breakthroughs. I'd say there's greater emphasis on attacking down the flanks (ironically) - it's rare to get a dedicated right/left-back in T&T, they're nearly always a converted winger, and very few converted Centre-backs (like in England) and this produces its own unique balance on the wings. Wingers also seem likely to be frustrated strikers, and vice-versa - there's a fine line between the roles for a significant number of attackers. Out-and-out strikers like Willis Plaza aren't as common as in England, as physical players who can head a good cross seem devalued in Trinidad (but forgive my ignorance as I'm not so sure on this point as my others). Relatedly, Wingers nearly always seem to be inverted or inside forwards, who's primary aim is to beat their opposite number rather than put a cross in.

A lot of this might be out-dated given the paucity of local games lately...

There are, however, similarities between T&T and the lower-leagues - the types of play wouldn't be out-of-place in League Two or the Conference National. The Super League, from what little I've seen, has similarities with Conference North/South - some tactical awareness, but mostly characterised by the two or three players who have some special characteristic, be it flair, vision, speed or finishing.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1000 on: December 28, 2019, 08:43:01 AM »
Tiresais, I see you are reluctant to commit on the heading ... don't be. That's one of the specific reasons why heading features prominently in the goals scored in the second and bonus videos. There's more to be said.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 09:03:41 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline maxg

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1001 on: December 28, 2019, 11:33:17 AM »
Seeker, either allyuh hijack the thread or y'all trying to help Terry coach TT. Though I think is the former.  ;D

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1002 on: December 28, 2019, 12:04:06 PM »
Seeker, either allyuh hijack the thread or y'all trying to help Terry coach TT. Though I think is the former.  ;D

Full hijacking, no ski mask - which is about right for the 70s. Doh worry doh, ah already have ah match with Fenwick in sight to post (and it doh involve Maradona).
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 12:06:07 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline Tiresais

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1003 on: December 28, 2019, 01:34:42 PM »
Tiresais, I see you are reluctant to commit on the heading ... don't be. That's one of the specific reasons why heading features prominently in the goals scored in the second and bonus videos. There's more to be said.

Glad I am not the only one! How would you characterize T&Ts game?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1004 on: December 28, 2019, 03:38:34 PM »
So we have seen footage of the early 70s and the mid-70s ... I was going to move into the 80s with another video, but I've decided to do this thing properly and post match clips from a match that capped the close of the 70s. It was played on February 9, 1980 between Norwich City and Liverpool and is considered one of the best matches ever played in England. Again, no long ball for any doubters, but that's the least of the contentions at this point. Enjoy, you'll also see the best goal scored in the First Division that season ... and that goal produced a lot of other outcomes.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2KC_Edga6oM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2KC_Edga6oM</a>
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 03:40:10 PM by asylumseeker »

Offline ffisback

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1005 on: December 29, 2019, 12:30:02 AM »
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!

Ffsback, while some aspects of our culture have survived, we are anglophile to the core.  How many of us go to SA to work and study. Very few. How often TT does play Ven.? 10 times? I am not sure, but not very often. This may change with the influx of Ven. Spanish and French should be compulsory again in high school.  As a matter of fact, it should start in primary school.
While the English did put the icing on the cake  all the ingredients is from the Spanish with a little French topping just to give it a extra taste while I agree Trinidad has a anglophile influence I disagree with us been anglophile to the core.

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1006 on: December 29, 2019, 02:06:10 AM »
I wonder if anyone has stopped to notice that Latin American teams in concacaf struggle against us and jamaica? the only Latin team in concacaf who runs rings over us is honduras, and that’s because they have big strong tall players like us who match us with speed and physicality.

the Mexicans would rather face any central american team than TT or jamaica, not that we beat them often or dominate them, but they struggle against us, and that’s because we play more of an english brand that the Latin players struggle against. in all honesty European football is a solid brand (contrary to popular opinion) and we in trinidad should adapt ourselves to that brand and learn it well.
People make the mistake and confuse TT football with Jamaica football but they not the same the English game suites Jamaican football because they are fast physical and athletic and also discipline teams in the CONCACAF struggle to deal with this even though the Jamaicans have a  loosing record vs Costa Rica and Honduras they have a better record than TT vs those teams.

TT dose not have those quality's we can't bully those teams like how Jamaica does I saw a game were Evan Wise make a Costa Rican player look bad and the Costa Rican player went and kick him down I remember a game where R Latapy had to be taken off the field in a stretcher when them Costa Rican players was done with him I can't remember any team from TT been physically imposing we just not built for that game.

Offline pull stones

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1007 on: December 29, 2019, 04:13:03 AM »
I wonder if anyone has stopped to notice that Latin American teams in concacaf struggle against us and jamaica? the only Latin team in concacaf who runs rings over us is honduras, and that’s because they have big strong tall players like us who match us with speed and physicality.

the Mexicans would rather face any central american team than TT or jamaica, not that we beat them often or dominate them, but they struggle against us, and that’s because we play more of an english brand that the Latin players struggle against. in all honesty European football is a solid brand (contrary to popular opinion) and we in trinidad should adapt ourselves to that brand and learn it well.
People make the mistake and confuse TT football with Jamaica football but they not the same the English game suites Jamaican football because they are fast physical and athletic and also discipline teams in the CONCACAF struggle to deal with this even though the Jamaicans have a  loosing record vs Costa Rica and Honduras they have a better record than TT vs those teams.

TT dose not have those quality's we can't bully those teams like how Jamaica does I saw a game were Evan Wise make a Costa Rican player look bad and the Costa Rican player went and kick him down I remember a game where R Latapy had to be taken off the field in a stretcher when them Costa Rican players was done with him I can't remember any team from TT been physically imposing we just not built for that game.
ah mate you’re wrong, our game has changed tremendously since the days of the dwarika’s the latapy’s and the evans wise, we saw the last of those players after the 2006 world cup. today we have beefy players like levi garcia, danial cyrus, khaleem hyland, Ryan telfer, kenwin jones, neval hackshaw, Sheldon bateau, even smaller players like jovin jones and kevin molino has beefed up.

I remember watching a game recently and the mexican broadcasters was talking about how physical trinidad and jamaica were and the had some apprehension of facing us. we no longer have small nashy lightweight players unless they came from SSFL or the pro league.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 11:59:41 AM by pull stones »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1008 on: December 29, 2019, 04:19:11 AM »
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!

Ffsback, while some aspects of our culture have survived, we are anglophile to the core.  How many of us go to SA to work and study. Very few. How often TT does play Ven.? 10 times? I am not sure, but not very often. This may change with the influx of Ven. Spanish and French should be compulsory again in high school.  As a matter of fact, it should start in primary school.
While the English did put the icing on the cake  all the ingredients is from the Spanish with a little French topping just to give it a extra taste while I agree Trinidad has a anglophile influence I disagree with us been anglophile to the core.

yes we have Spanish and French influences, but those influences has fallen off dramatically. The Spanish may be revived with the influx of Ven. But honestly most Trinis can't speak a decent sentence in french or Spanish to save they live. By the late 60s the little patois and Spanish we had were gone. Only Parang was there, and that is for only 3 months of the year. Ask them Ven. what they think about our Spanish. They go tell you. We have been heavily influence by Americanism from the 70s. We are American Anglophones to the core now..

Offline sjahrain

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1009 on: December 29, 2019, 08:30:27 AM »
Totally confused and lack the will of owning itself....thats where we are...and at the bottom of the barrel to boot....ha ha ha...we have been following those who we were not...rather than forgeing our own identity...case closed a lack of leadership poor planning and friendism....ask.
 where is the loyalty...mmmmmmm....the on field product should trump all... :banginghead: :banginghead: :banginghead:

Offline ffisback

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1010 on: December 29, 2019, 08:30:48 AM »
I wonder if anyone has stopped to notice that Latin American teams in concacaf struggle against us and jamaica? the only Latin team in concacaf who runs rings over us is honduras, and that’s because they have big strong tall players like us who match us with speed and physicality.

the Mexicans would rather face any central american team than TT or jamaica, not that we beat them often or dominate them, but they struggle against us, and that’s because we play more of an english brand that the Latin players struggle against. in all honesty European football is a solid brand (contrary to popular opinion) and we in trinidad should adapt ourselves to that brand and learn it well.
People make the mistake and confuse TT football with Jamaica football but they not the same the English game suites Jamaican football because they are fast physical and athletic and also discipline teams in the CONCACAF struggle to deal with this even though the Jamaicans have a  loosing record vs Costa Rica and Honduras they have a better record than TT vs those teams.

TT dose not have those quality's we can't bully those teams like how Jamaica does I saw a game were Evan Wise make a Costa Rican player look bad and the Costa Rican player went and kick him down I remember a game where R Latapy had to be taken off the field in a stretcher when them Costa Rican players was done with him I can't remember any team from TT been physically imposing we just not built for that game.
ah mate you’re wrong, our game has changed tremendously since the days of the dwarika’s the latapy’s and the evans wise, we saw the last of those players after the 2006 world cup. today we have beefy players like levi garcia, danial cyrus, khaleem hyland, Ryan telfer, kenwin jones, neval hackshaw, Sheldon bateau, even smaller players like jovin jones and kevin molino has beefed up.

I remember watching a game recently and the mexican broadcasters was talking about how physical trinidad and jamaica were and the had some apprehension of facing us. we no longer have small nasty lightweight players unless they came from SSFL or the pro league.
I agree with TT being a more physical team now but unfortunately the results remain the same.

Offline ffisback

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1011 on: December 29, 2019, 08:48:05 AM »
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!

Ffsback, while some aspects of our culture have survived, we are anglophile to the core.  How many of us go to SA to work and study. Very few. How often TT does play Ven.? 10 times? I am not sure, but not very often. This may change with the influx of Ven. Spanish and French should be compulsory again in high school.  As a matter of fact, it should start in primary school.
While the English did put the icing on the cake  all the ingredients is from the Spanish with a little French topping just to give it a extra taste while I agree Trinidad has a anglophile influence I disagree with us been anglophile to the core.

yes we have Spanish and French influences, but those influences has fallen off dramatically. The Spanish may be revived with the influx of Ven. But honestly most Trinis can't speak a decent sentence in french or Spanish to save they live. By the late 60s the little patois and Spanish we had were gone. Only Parang was there, and that is for only 3 months of the year. Ask them Ven. what they think about our Spanish. They go tell you. We have been heavily influence by Americanism from the 70s. We are American Anglophones to the core now..
I agree with most of what you are saying because half of my great grandparents spoke Spanish but once they move to town that was the end of the Spanish speaking people in my family but I just don't agree with Trinidad being a anglophones to the core even with the Americanism the Ven people would save Trinidad and bring us back to were we should be.

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1012 on: January 01, 2020, 08:41:51 AM »
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!
Its sad to see a country like Trinidad that has a Latin culture always hiring a bunch of English coach's I guess they will never get it right.
He came, he conquered all... He earned it!!

Ffsback, while some aspects of our culture have survived, we are anglophile to the core.  How many of us go to SA to work and study. Very few. How often TT does play Ven.? 10 times? I am not sure, but not very often. This may change with the influx of Ven. Spanish and French should be compulsory again in high school.  As a matter of fact, it should start in primary school.
While the English did put the icing on the cake  all the ingredients is from the Spanish with a little French topping just to give it a extra taste while I agree Trinidad has a anglophile influence I disagree with us been anglophile to the core.

yes we have Spanish and French influences, but those influences has fallen off dramatically. The Spanish may be revived with the influx of Ven. But honestly most Trinis can't speak a decent sentence in french or Spanish to save they live. By the late 60s the little patois and Spanish we had were gone. Only Parang was there, and that is for only 3 months of the year. Ask them Ven. what they think about our Spanish. They go tell you. We have been heavily influence by Americanism from the 70s. We are American Anglophones to the core now..
I agree with most of what you are saying because half of my great grandparents spoke Spanish but once they move to town that was the end of the Spanish speaking people in my family but I just don't agree with Trinidad being a anglophones to the core even with the Americanism the Ven people would save Trinidad and bring us back to were we should be.

Who are the people playing baseball in the Savannah? Our distracted football saviours?

Offline asylumseeker

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1013 on: January 01, 2020, 08:55:57 AM »
As of today, Fenwick is officially on the HOT SEAT and on the hook. 🔥 His task: to blaze a trail to the Gold Cup. Failing that iz 'fiyah' 🔥🔥same way but on a hotter seat when we allyuh ride for him.   :)

Good luck, coach!

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1014 on: January 01, 2020, 09:22:06 AM »
WATCH: Kelvin Jack in conversation with ExtraTime TV's Andre Sooklal regarding Terry Fenwick's assumption of coaching duties with the Soca Warriors.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/oR0ZDXMYnZ0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/oR0ZDXMYnZ0</a>

Offline Thomo

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1015 on: January 02, 2020, 09:44:41 AM »
I'm patiently waiting on the first interview with the new manager.
C'mon Flex, Tallman or Lasana do your best  ;D

Offline Deeks

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1016 on: January 02, 2020, 12:19:16 PM »
I'm patiently waiting on the first interview with the new manager.
C'mon Flex, Tallman or Lasana do your best  ;D

Did he do a national press conference as yet ?

Offline Thomo

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1017 on: January 02, 2020, 01:08:25 PM »
I'm patiently waiting on the first interview with the new manager.
C'mon Flex, Tallman or Lasana do your best  ;D

Did he do a national press conference as yet ?

Nah he hasn't.

Offline frico

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1018 on: January 03, 2020, 03:47:57 PM »
If one long ball reaches the player it's planned for why use 15,20 or 25 passes to do it,long ball could always open defences just like possession football,TT don't do the long ball good enough to get results.

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Re: Terry Fenwick Thread.
« Reply #1019 on: January 03, 2020, 06:00:21 PM »
If one long ball reaches the player it's planned for why use 15,20 or 25 passes to do it,long ball could always open defences just like possession football,TT don't do the long ball good enough to get results.

ONE or two versus overuse or reliance. Only a bobolee team would succumb to the repeated use of that choice.

 

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