Terry Fenwick Thread.

[Controversial]

From what I've seen....Fenwick brings a lot of perspiration but little organization or structure.

He wants intensity, deep pressing, hustle, from his teams.   These are good things.

He doesn't seem however to be able to have any sort of organisation or structure in any third of the field.   He eschews the technical in favour of effort and graft.

In other words....what you would expect of a stereotypical English coach.

I agree somewhat, he's a self proclaimed admirer of Terry Venables.
Plus all Bertille St. Clair's team played like that. The structure to them was secondary to man management, pace, power, pressing and supreme fitness. If you listen to the Burdie and Barney podcast when asked about his preferred formation he Bertille couldn't say. He said something akin to Get it, Give it and something else is his philosophy.
Marcelo Bielsa  uses a similar idea everywhere he goes and now at Leeds. He loves a 4-3-3 formation with a high, relentless press.
Look at what Terry did when he came to TnT, he shook up the whole league with that style.
If Terry gets the players with that level of fitness he can impress i think but I believe it's a tough one with the national team at the minute.
Fingers crossed

Yeah but does that style of football fit our players and will it produce results for us?

Last time I checked, Leeds placed out of the top 10 ...

what style do we have in TT oh looney one? I’m really tired of hearing “our style of football” which is what exactly, run dow the flank and try to beat The Whole defense while losing possession in the process? or is it get the ball in the box and kick as hard as you can when the opportunity presents its self?

I watch a lot of these local players and IMO they are quite predictable. In the game of football you have to out play your opponents in every which way, it also includes rapid ball movement in the final third. it’s not always about shooting at goal the first chance you get, sometimes you have to look for the open man and getting a few touches in discombobulating the defense and the keeper which opens up gaps for better scoring opportunities.

 I guess what I meant to say is that our players for the most part are one dimensional, and they need to be a little more cheeky and a little less obvious. I hope I didn’t lose you.

You tend to go to extremes I notice, TT has always had a strong creative mid which is absent in this team. No creativity or strong mid presence in our matches... and no it’s not one dimensional, it depends on the coach, under Hart, under beenhakker and even at times under maturana it was unpredictable creative, progressive football that was organized And had a  style to it..

So I disagree strongly

[Thomo]

From what I've seen....Fenwick brings a lot of perspiration but little organization or structure.

He wants intensity, deep pressing, hustle, from his teams.   These are good things.

He doesn't seem however to be able to have any sort of organisation or structure in any third of the field.   He eschews the technical in favour of effort and graft.

In other words....what you would expect of a stereotypical English coach.

I agree somewhat, he's a self proclaimed admirer of Terry Venables.
Plus all Bertille St. Clair's team played like that. The structure to them was secondary to man management, pace, power, pressing and supreme fitness. If you listen to the Burdie and Barney podcast when asked about his preferred formation he Bertille couldn't say. He said something akin to Get it, Give it and something else is his philosophy.
Marcelo Bielsa  uses a similar idea everywhere he goes and now at Leeds. He loves a 4-3-3 formation with a high, relentless press.
Look at what Terry did when he came to TnT, he shook up the whole league with that style.
If Terry gets the players with that level of fitness he can impress i think but I believe it's a tough one with the national team at the minute.
Fingers crossed

Yeah but does that style of football fit our players and will it produce results for us?

Last time I checked, Leeds placed out of the top 10 ...

This just clearly shows you know little to nothing about football.
Mate, you come on here just spouting bile at everyone if they have a different opinion to you.
Yet you don't know that Leeds was only promoted to the Premier League after 16 years in the Championship and League 1 in the current 2020/2021 season
So you are dead wrong that they "placed out of the top 10", when in fact this is just there 1st season back and they are currently 11th in the table with 9 games to go. This is a great standing for any newly promoted team especially one with no big money spends.
Under Bielsa they play an a stereotypical attacking brand with a high press all synonymous with him.
Hart isn't coming back, get over it!

[maxg]

Eyes on youth: Teenagers aplenty in Fenwick’s first T&T training squad
By Ian Prescott (T&T Express)

ENGLISHMAN Terry Fenwick has made a commitment to add young players to the national men’s football team, even if it means that some older locally-based players might have to be left out.

A month after commencing national team training, Fenwick held his first media conference yesterday at the Police Barracks in St James. The former England defender, 60, worked with a bunch of 35 kids under the watchful eyes of Police Commissioner Gary Griffith.

Assisting Fenwick were a combination of former national players and coaches such as Clayton Ince and Ross Russell, along with San Juan Jabloteh’s Keith Jeffrey and Keon Trim. Fenwick explained that his assistants, Derek King and Angus Eve, were unavailable for yesterday’s session.

Despite uncertainty as to whether the FIFA installed Normalisation Committee or the elected officials of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association are running the sport locally, Fenwick felt it important to get his programme going.

“We have just come through Covid virus into the Sahara dust and in between all of that, we don’t know who our leadership is at this time,” he said, vowing to steer clear of local football politics.

“Politics around the world is not easy. It gets bitter and twisted at times,” he declared, “That is where we are. I am leaving that alone.”

Fenwick said his early ambition has been limited by finances.

“I wanted to take a team from Trinidad to Tobago to play against the best players that they got available in Tobago,” he said. “So we can see what we got and select the best that they got over there.”

Fenwick’s focus is on young, locally-based players, although a few experienced 31-year-olds such as Police goalkeeper Adrian Foncette, La Horquetta Rangers’ Keron “Ball Pest” Cummings and Defence Force defender Curtis “Boyo” Gonzales were among those training. The squad also included talented 19-year-old Central FC midfielder Che Benny, striker Justin Araujo-Wilson (17), W Connection talent Molik Khan (16), St Anthony’s College forward Kai Phillip (19), Club Sando striker and Pro League top scorer Shaqkeem Joseph (19), John-Paul Rochford (20) and Justin Sadoo, the 22-year-old Point Fortin Civic defensive midfielder.

“I’m working with a very, very young squad of players,” Fenwick said.

“Some of my players will be in their late teens coming through to my national side. They have done a great job so far. The intensity has been remarkable. Sometimes it does look a little frenetic because they have put a lot of time and effort into their physical side of the game,” he added.

“My intention, as national team coach, is to develop the best kids that we have available,” he said, explaining that the face of the squad would change over time, with others also getting an opportunity to stake their claims.

“We are working hard at it. I’ve got my detractors in the background, which is okay, I understand. I am giving my everything to the young players that we got.”

The Englishman said his ambition was to get into the mind of his young charges, getting them to do the simple things right. While talented, some have not previously benefitted from structured coaching and so, many things are brand new to them. Some will rise to the occasion while others will not be good enough and will be replaced by other talent.

“There are lots of players out there in the mid-20’s who haven’t been selected and are not involved in this squad, and they are asking why,” Fenwick revealed.

“I said to them, ‘Fellas, if you are 27 and older and you are still playing here in the league in Trinidad and Tobago, I know I have better players at the highest standard of football somewhere else in the world’.”

“You wouldn’t believe the response I have had locally and internationally from players around the world that want to play for Trinidad and Tobago,” he continued.

Fenwick said his intention was to get results.

“I want us to get away from being 105th ranking in the world (and) one of the teams in the Caribbean region. I want to be the top team in the region. I want to be top-50 ranked in the world. I want to move us in the right direction and that will not happen unless we have a good development process from 15, 17, 20, into the (senior) national team.”

RELATED NEWS

Fenwick: We have something to offer.
By Walter Alibey (Guardian).

National coach Terry Fenwick is manoeuvring the challenges of a less-than-ideal leadership, the selection of inexperienced players, to people who are not in favour of him being national coach, as well as little to no finances, to turn around the fortunes of T&T football.

Addressing the media soon after a training session at the Police training ground at the St James Barracks on Friday, the English-born coach said he wants not to be one of the top teams in the Caribbean but the best in the region, as well as one of the top 50 teams in the world.

To date, he has been mentoring the young players, some of whom have never played under a top-class coach, he told the audience and has been guiding them on the areas they need work.

"Some of the sessions that they've done are brand new, they don't know. I am engaging them on and off the field as to how they adapt mentally. Everything I tell them, I only tell them once to see who takes it on board because that's how the world is moving right now. I want us to get away from this 105th ranking in the world, or one of the teams from the Caribbean region. I want to be the top team in the region. I want to be down on the 50 ranked in the world which will move us in the right direction, and that will not happen until we have a development process from 15, 17, 20 and the senior national team."

He added: "We have done a good job so far. The intensity has been remarkable."

Courtesy the assistance of Robert Hadad, the chairman of the FIFA-appointed Normalisation Committee who has helped the team with his finances to get food and refreshment, and Commissioner of Police Gary Griffith, the team has been in training for just under a month now (the first session was on June 8.) and has made tremendous strides despite the challenges of the coronavirus (COVID19) pandemic, situation. The infiltration of the Saharan dust, and the uncertainty of who will lead local football after the pending July 29 court matter between the world governing body for football - FIFA, and the William Wallace-led United T&T Football Association.

He told the media he has been encouraged when he sees the work of coaches such as Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp, he knows we are in a good place. "When we have got the best coaches in the world such as Pep Guardiola, coaching teams with teenagers to win Championships, whether it be the Premier League or the Champions League, and that's with at whatever clubs he has been, that tells me that these youngsters have got something to offer."

Fenwick, 60, is hoping to follow up his team with a match between a Trinidad representative team versus a Tobago team in the sister-isle soon, as well as an international encounter with either Guyana or Barbados before the year ends.

He hopes to work on the many interested players internationally with T&T's parentage with the hope of selecting the best team.

At the last FIFA World Cup qualifiers, the T&T team was recorded as the oldest squad in world football, but the Englishman who took over from Dennis Lawrence on December 19, 2019, said he wants to change that. Fenwick's training squads yesterday comprised some 40 players such as Adrian Foncette, Jabari Mitchell (Police FC); Andre Marchan, Aaron Enil, Curtis Gonzales, Justin Garcia, Adrian Welch, Hashim Arcia, Reon Moore, Brent Sam, Dwight Quintero (Defence Force); Christopher Biggette, Brandon Semper, Kadeem Hutchinson, Justin Araujo-Wilson, Tyrese Bailey (San Juan Jabloteh); Kadeem Riley (Unattached); Isaiah Garcia, Molik Khan (W Connection); Jelani Peters (Toronto FC); Jesse Williams, Jameel Neptune, Kevon Goddard, Che Benny, Sean Bonval (Central FC); Xavier Rajpaul (Cunupia FC); Justin Sadoo (Point Fortin); Rivaldo Coryat, Matthew Wooling, John Paul Rochford (AC Port of Spain); Keron Cornwall, Shaqkeem Joseph (Club Sando FC); Keron Cummings (La Horquetta Rangers); Judah Garcia (Point Fortin FC); Nicholas Dillon (Patro Eisden Maas); Kai Phillip (St Anthony’s College); Tyrese Spicer (St Augustine Secondary); Michael Poon-Angeron, Akeem Roach, Jaheim McFee.

Among those who assisted Fenwick during yesterday's session were Clayton Ince, Keith Jeffreys and Ross Russell.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/PNF1ESMtm3s" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/PNF1ESMtm3s</a>

So is he done with his locals. Since he feel he couldn’t get thru, even if he used only a couple in last 2 games ? Not sure how he came to conclusion he need to find more strong foreign born that he don’t know. He don’t believe in his ability to bring the ones he knows up to par that he would have been working with for what would be almost a year ? How will he work with them ?
Sounds like he depending on individuals and not a team. I might be mistaken.

[palos]

So is he done with his locals. Since he feel he couldn’t get thru, even if he used only a couple in last 2 games ? Not sure how he came to conclusion he need to find more strong foreign born that he don’t know. He don’t believe in his ability to bring the ones he knows up to par that he would have been working with for what would be almost a year ? How will he work with them ?
Sounds like he depending on individuals and not a team. I might be mistaken.

Unless they're total idiots, no coach will go into WCQ with players who haven't played any competitive football for over a year if they have eligible players who are experienced and have been playin regularly.

All coaches want to win.   They could bump dey gum all dey want bout developing local players and giving locals a chance etc....but when push come to shove.....most will go with experienced players.

As for depending on individuals rather than team....did you see any of the 2 games we played recently?   

[maxg]

So is he done with his locals. Since he feel he couldn’t get thru, even if he used only a couple in last 2 games ? Not sure how he came to conclusion he need to find more strong foreign born that he don’t know. He don’t believe in his ability to bring the ones he knows up to par that he would have been working with for what would be almost a year ? How will he work with them ?
Sounds like he depending on individuals and not a team. I might be mistaken.

Unless they're total idiots, no coach will go into WCQ with players who haven't played any competitive football for over a year if they have eligible players who are experienced and have been playin regularly.

All coaches want to win.   They could bump dey gum all dey want bout developing local players and giving locals a chance etc....but when push come to shove.....most will go with experienced players.

As for depending on individuals rather than team....did you see any of the 2 games we played recently?   

Yes I did. As a matter of fact, saw the last 3. What I saw was no discernible plan (but of course there could have been one), no team organization (out of position players), some structure, plenty effort.  Who were the players in action over the last year that gave some kind of performance. I did not see much teamwork, especially in the last 2 2nd halves.  I saw individuals trying their best to play the games and figure out each other. Our successes depending on each of their play, with few exceptions. All the boys managed as best as they could - again with few exceptions - considering the circumstance. I saw the oppositions operating as a unit, even in the Guyana game, even with their uncharacteristic mistkaes and breakdowns. My concern is, If Mr Fenwick brings in a further new active unknown players, 3 days before (as released by their clubs), will that serve to improve our team ? How so ?  Yes, Molino,yes a left back, yes, Hacksaw can move up, but with other additions, will Telfer/Plaza have more options or support. Where/who else replaced. I already removed JJ. Maybe a dedicated Central defender. Yet, how will the TEAM combine to win games ? I don't know enough of the strategies to deduce that answer, but maybe you do, with a new 'MeMum' or 'far- Danish' in mind.

[palos]

I have similar observations as you excerpt for the structure part.  I didn’t see any.

My point is given those observations, the players will go out and do their best and performances and results will largely depend on individual effort rather than as a result of any cohesive play.

I don’t see a difference to that lack of structure and organization with local based players.   Those local based players individual efforts will likely be of a lower standard than that of foreign based players that play regularly

Therefore, if the above is accurate, the team’s best chance of a positive result will be to have as many established, experienced players who have the most recent match practice as possible.

[Controversial]

From what I've seen....Fenwick brings a lot of perspiration but little organization or structure.

He wants intensity, deep pressing, hustle, from his teams.   These are good things.

He doesn't seem however to be able to have any sort of organisation or structure in any third of the field.   He eschews the technical in favour of effort and graft.

In other words....what you would expect of a stereotypical English coach.

I agree somewhat, he's a self proclaimed admirer of Terry Venables.
Plus all Bertille St. Clair's team played like that. The structure to them was secondary to man management, pace, power, pressing and supreme fitness. If you listen to the Burdie and Barney podcast when asked about his preferred formation he Bertille couldn't say. He said something akin to Get it, Give it and something else is his philosophy.
Marcelo Bielsa  uses a similar idea everywhere he goes and now at Leeds. He loves a 4-3-3 formation with a high, relentless press.
Look at what Terry did when he came to TnT, he shook up the whole league with that style.
If Terry gets the players with that level of fitness he can impress i think but I believe it's a tough one with the national team at the minute.
Fingers crossed

Yeah but does that style of football fit our players and will it produce results for us?

Last time I checked, Leeds placed out of the top 10 ...

This just clearly shows you know little to nothing about football.
Mate, you come on here just spouting bile at everyone if they have a different opinion to you.
Yet you don't know that Leeds was only promoted to the Premier League after 16 years in the Championship and League 1 in the current 2020/2021 season
So you are dead wrong that they "placed out of the top 10", when in fact this is just there 1st season back and they are currently 11th in the table with 9 games to go. This is a great standing for any newly promoted team especially one with no big money spends.
Under Bielsa they play an a stereotypical attacking brand with a high press all synonymous with him.
Hart isn't coming back, get over it!

So because you are following Leeds more intently than I am means you know more about football than I do 

Yes I know they were promoted but even with 9 games left they are not finishing in the top 3 and Fenwick is not implementing the brand of football that Bielsa is trying to implement... Nor are we seeing our team play well in this formation under his coaching, and no I am not advocating for Hart fool..

It’s called comparing and analyzing how previous coaches used our players compared to the current coach.

Here’s a deeper question for you, did we succeed under the 433 at anytime under Lawrence or Hart? In the gold cup under Hart what was our most successful formation? If you really want to talk formations

[maxg]

I have similar observations as you excerpt for the structure part.  I didn’t see any.

My point is given those observations, the players will go out and do their best and performances and results will largely depend on individual effort rather than as a result of any cohesive play.

I don’t see a difference to that lack of structure and organization with local based players.   Those local based players individual efforts will likely be of a lower standard than that of foreign based players that play regularly

Therefore, if the above is accurate, the team’s best chance of a positive result will be to have as many established, experienced players who have the most recent match practice as possible.

Without anyone in particular with little or no history. I think over the next 2 mths, he and his staff could develop a plan, develop is structural organization by developing any 1 or 2 of the 40 locals available to him,  and develop 1 or 2 of the 40 + best positional locals available, along with those already on the roster. This shouldn’t be a difficult exercise nor time consuming, even with multiple game plans involved. In addition having multiple options even if lesser talent fully aware of requirements to achieve success.

You can have the best architects, contractors, subcontractors and hardest workers, but without extensive and shared plans, they could still build a shack, but the construction of anything greater would probably lead to poor quality. Disorganization, lack of timely results and lots of extra money. My be best to go with good plans, you already have best contractors, and chose yuh subcontractors with the best worker’s available to you, teaching them yourself (if available) bringing them to the standard and understanding where they can at least follow the plan or at least follow your instructions that you will probably be shouting at the job site.

Any coach can prep a individual player to best fit into a team for multiple strategies, but cannot prep the player for that team strategies. The player would have to get that at his tryout and of course learn ASAP. In 2 mths from the architect mouth, if a few top local players ( not necessarily the most skilled or talented) but the best that can see but cannot  get the concepts. Then the qualifications of the architects must be suspect.

My point is new better players not knowing the staff or colleagues, may not have time to follow those plans, that is if the plan is different to their experience or difficult to understand their role , farless to understand everyone else’s in 3 days or so.
A Molino et al, would have an idea of the plan, seen it before, discussed it with other colleagues, whether agree with or not, would have his own plan in execution and knowledge of who will follow or lead.

[asylumseeker]

No.

[maxg]

No.

No ? Can't be done ? i.e. develop a plan, strategies and a couple more known local players ? 

[asylumseeker]

No.

No ? Can't be done ? i.e. develop a plan, strategies and known players ? 

Can be done. Now is not the moment and willfully excluding more accomplished players out of a fear/concern as to whether a coach will be successful with them or whether they will be successful is deficient. It also leaves the sole outcome of achieving failure or success with only one constituency (local) when it is the coach's responsibility to try to yield success from the broader universe.

This cycle is showing that all teams are surmounting this hurdle.

The order of the moment is to bring players in and we are well behind in that regard. The program is permanent. The coach is temporary.

[asylumseeker]

this is Terry’s third game in charge and already he’s in for mounting criticism, you people got some balls.

If TT do not win their next game, your will see a "Fire Terry Fenwick Thread".

Compared to what has been launched at other coaches, Fenwick has had a honeymoon on this forum. I don't think a Fire Fenwick thread exists and if that is the case, it is testament to the honeymoon. From what I observe, he entered the job with loads of goodwill. Some coaches had a Fire thread early o'clock.

Third game or not, certain manifestations on the field are undeniable.

One thing I will say doh: during matches coaches don't have the luxury of seeing the field from the view delivered on TV. What is immediately obvious to the viewer may not be immediately obvious to the coach BUT everything that occurs on the field is the coach's responsibility to decipher or influence or anticipate and the coach must acquire a way of seeing the field three dimensionally. But even if she or he misses something during the match, she or he still has video later to have the light bulb go off. How many matches are necessary for that to happen?

International football can't be assessed in the same way as a league. Negative manifestations in two matches ordinarily prompt questions because there are only a handful of matches that determine whether a team swims or sinks. Nothing within the critique of Fenwick's product is atypical. In places like Argentina and Mexico similar comments would be platformed on TV with vigorous argument. In T&T they come through written media mostly.

That stated, I doubt Fenwick is hobbled by not perceiving the field three-dimensionally. He is hobbled by inflexibility. And pay attention to a word Cocorite used: anachronistic.

On Sunday he failed at determining how to be more effective in the final 35 to 45 meters of the field. That lack of effectivity is inseparable from his preferences in other areas of the pitch. That cyah happen and not geh ponged. Three points were for the picking like a ripe mango and we almost left the venue hungry.

On the Bielsa comparison triggered above ... Bielsa's team has the 6th highest goals for tally in the PL. They are not a team with an identity crisis in generating or resolving attacking situations. And Bielsa believes that attacks should be finalized in locations where the opponent least expects ... enough said.

Leeds also has the distinction of having the 6th highest goals conceded tally ... To put that in context, there are four teams below Leeds that have conceded less goals (that includes Fulham who are in the relegation zone) ... and those teams have conceded ~ 10 goals less.

But, is that fruit of the high press or of something else? Do we have a press?

I won't bother with driving into a full comparison of Fenwick with Bielsa because that is heresy and we all know (or should know) the comparison isn't merited more than superficially. I accept it for why it was offered.

However, despite Bielsa's use of 4-3-3 and his dogmatic beliefs, he is not inflexible in what happens within its use and he certainly has demonstrated more adaptability in hundreds of matches than Fenwick demonstrated in one.

Menotti once famously said something along the line of: “el inodoro va en el baño y la heladera en la cocina (the toilet goes in the bathroom and the fridge in the kitchen). He meant players play where they should play and dahis it. Bielsa does not agree with that view.

Fenwick and Menotti might enjoy each other's company. Briefly.

Locating and relocating the toilet and the fridge is what had Fenwick screaming his arse off on Sunday.

[palos]

Without anyone in particular with little or no history. I think over the next 2 mths, he and his staff could develop a plan, develop is structural organization by developing any 1 or 2 of the 40 locals available to him,  and develop 1 or 2 of the 40 + best positional locals available, along with those already on the roster. This shouldn’t be a difficult exercise nor time consuming, even with multiple game plans involved. In addition having multiple options even if lesser talent fully aware of requirements to achieve success.

You think it takes 1-2 months to develop a player?  Any player?  Even for an international tournament?

I disagree

[maxg]

Without anyone in particular with little or no history. I think over the next 2 mths, he and his staff could develop a plan, develop is structural organization by developing any 1 or 2 of the 40 locals available to him,  and develop 1 or 2 of the 40 + best positional locals available, along with those already on the roster. This shouldn’t be a difficult exercise nor time consuming, even with multiple game plans involved. In addition having multiple options even if lesser talent fully aware of requirements to achieve success.

You think it takes 1-2 months to develop a player?  Any player?  Even for an international tournament?

I disagree

I think with the proper selections, yes. Yuh selecting  from your stable of the best you can found in the country. He’s not any footballer. Yuh not developing a team, yuh working on a disciplined, talented, ‘above average best’ football athlete to play a role. He doesn’t have to learn the whole script, just his lines, and has the ability to adlib as is necessary.

Seeker, yes the more to select from the better, but I suspect we mostly out of beggees and ppl who we should have called and or played in the past. Anybody you call now to work on FIFA dates might be a bigger gamble, unless they already know the coach system . Maybe the Hfx boys, as they had past experience and current teaching. But are they playing? And when they do, would they be ready ? Remember we don’t have no EPL or Bundesliga descendants or we woulda reach them and blank them ahready.

[asylumseeker]

To your point, the players to be called are not novices. Bring the experienced players and adopt success to their attributes. Don't exclude them as if we have that luxury and don't insist on predetermined squarepegging in round holes.

How can we be out of foreign-based when smaller populated qualifiers are still reinforcing?

Anyone worth their salt can learn what we are playing.

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

[palos]

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

THIS 🤞🏾

Beyond that.....no domestic football for over a year.

We delude ourselves into thinking we have this abundance of football talent in T&T.

If that were truly the case, wouldn’t others recognize it and sign them to contracts?

There’s a reason that other than Levi Garcia, not a single one of our players Under 23 have been picked up by an elite foreign club.

[Tiresais]

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

THIS 🤞🏾

Beyond that.....no domestic football for over a year.

We delude ourselves into thinking we have this abundance of football talent in T&T.

If that were truly the case, wouldn’t others recognize it and sign them to contracts?

There’s a reason that other than Levi Garcia, not a single one of our players Under 23 have been picked up by an elite foreign club.

This is mostly true, but we will always fight an up hill battle as what clubs in their right mind send scouts to our region? We've got a collective population similar to Argentina in the Caribbean but with significantly higher costs of travel, worse infrastructure, worse coaching coaching poor FAs. Our players often go abroad via the US, random agents, and optimistic flights abroad for a trial.

[maxg]

To your point, the players to be called are not novices. Bring the experienced players and adopt success to their attributes. Don't exclude them as if we have that luxury and don't insist on predetermined squarepegging in round holes.

How can we be out of foreign-based when smaller populated qualifiers are still reinforcing?

Anyone worth their salt can learn what we are playing.

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

1. Not excluding no-one, but you must admit, the picking are at present slim. Do you have any sort of list of who of quality is playing at present ? Maybe we can assist TF in finding them.
2. True, but they might be confused to what that is, as we couch coaches are. And is not that we never kick lime.

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

THIS 🤞🏾

Beyond that.....no domestic football for over a year.

We delude ourselves into thinking we have this abundance of football talent in T&T.

If that were truly the case, wouldn’t others recognize it and sign them to contracts?

There’s a reason that other than Levi Garcia, not a single one of our players Under 23 have been picked up by an elite foreign club.

We don't, but Mexico in our region definitely seem to have more than us, how many Mexicans getting major leagues contracts (besides the neighbourly MLS).

This is mostly true, but we will always fight an up hill battle as what clubs in their right mind send scouts to our region? We've got a collective population similar to Argentina in the Caribbean but with significantly higher costs of travel, worse infrastructure, worse coaching coaching poor FAs. Our players often go abroad via the US, random agents, and optimistic flights abroad for a trial.

That I believe explains that. Is not like were constant finalist in regional tournaments. We do have a few, but I as a foreign manager, would quicker take a chance with a championship player from the region, unless we make a tour and discover a youth with potential and get him before he spoil (Yorke eg.). The rest have to try ah thing if they can afford it. Even Latapy had to go this route, if I'm not mistaken. Especially now, what ppl hearing bout in TT football. The infamous JW, DJW and eventual NC. Ppl have they own bacchanal to deal with. How many Columbians was getting call with their cartel business. Only now they outta the regular news, some managing to see a little way. Majority of big football SA still playing at home, mind you, they have longer and stronger organizations than us, and still hardly big work. We behind them in so many ways, and evrytime, someone have a vision to take us forward, they are  embarrassed, removed or quit, and we ride on another hope to get us thru (it's how we have been). I hope one day that changes.

[palos]

This is mostly true, but we will always fight an up hill battle as what clubs in their right mind send scouts to our region? We've got a collective population similar to Argentina in the Caribbean but with significantly higher costs of travel, worse infrastructure, worse coaching coaching poor FAs. Our players often go abroad via the US, random agents, and optimistic flights abroad for a trial.

Prior to the pandemic, scouts went everywhere.  Besides....technology rendered much of that travel moot.  If you’re good.....word gets around.  Teams are ALWAYS literally scouring the earth looking for talent.  The Caribbean is no exception.

We’re just not good enough.  Which is interesting because I’ve heard the perception is players from the Caribbean are athletic, strong, and quick.  Characteristics they look for in modern football.

Competition is more stiff today than in Dwight Yorke days......and he was an anomaly. 

Today de yute from Maloney Gardens in competition with yutes from Nigeria, Ghana, Japan, etc.  Not easy.


As for Mexico....the Mexican league is considered an elite foreign league.  At least on par with MLS

[Deeks]

As for Mexico....the Mexican league is considered an elite foreign league.  At least on par with MLS

The Mexican league is better than MLS.

[maxg]

As for Mexico....the Mexican league is considered an elite foreign league.  At least on par with MLS

The Mexican league is better than MLS.

Not to change topic. Just a story. I was in Mexico for a swim meet(Lilman).Next to the pool there was astro turf football field, baseball field and rugby field. There was organized football matches on that field from 9:00 am to 9:00 pm/ 5 days/ week. Fete-matches on Saturday and Sunday. No baseball, rugby nor cricket. I ask the pool security guy, how come. He explained during the day is night-shift workers league, from 3 to 6:30 is schools league, from 6:30 to 10:00( we left at 9) is  men and women clubs league. Weekends is ole timers leagues. Although my leg was in a cast, he asked if I play this weekend if I wantto run. I think he meant if I used to play. I ask him if it have a cripples ole-timer serving beers on the side league.
Point is they play football whole day everyday. At least in that town. We ain’t like that and probably never will be. As I think TF said, we have seasons. I said to myself hmmm. So when they running their big league better believe they experienced, knowledgeable and know wtf their endgame is.   Oh this was Puerto Vallarta .  Couldn’t imagine what going up in that environment is. And still they ain’t make WC  final yet.

[Storeboy]

To your point, the players to be called are not novices. Bring the experienced players and adopt success to their attributes. Don't exclude them as if we have that luxury and don't insist on predetermined squarepegging in round holes.

How can we be out of foreign-based when smaller populated qualifiers are still reinforcing?

Anyone worth their salt can learn what we are playing.

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

1. Not excluding no-one, but you must admit, the picking are at present slim. Do you have any sort of list of who of quality is playing at present ? Maybe we can assist TF in finding them.
2. True, but they might be confused to what that is, as we couch coaches are. And is not that we never kick lime.

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

THIS 🤞🏾

Beyond that.....no domestic football for over a year.

We delude ourselves into thinking we have this abundance of football talent in T&T.

If that were truly the case, wouldn’t others recognize it and sign them to contracts?

There’s a reason that other than Levi Garcia, not a single one of our players Under 23 have been picked up by an elite foreign club.

We don't, but Mexico in our region definitely seem to have more than us, how many Mexicans getting major leagues contracts (besides the neighbourly MLS).

This is mostly true, but we will always fight an up hill battle as what clubs in their right mind send scouts to our region? We've got a collective population similar to Argentina in the Caribbean but with significantly higher costs of travel, worse infrastructure, worse coaching coaching poor FAs. Our players often go abroad via the US, random agents, and optimistic flights abroad for a trial.

That I believe explains that. Is not like were constant finalist in regional tournaments. We do have a few, but I as a foreign manager, would quicker take a chance with a championship player from the region, unless we make a tour and discover a youth with potential and get him before he spoil (Yorke eg.). The rest have to try ah thing if they can afford it. Even Latapy had to go this route, if I'm not mistaken. Especially now, what ppl hearing bout in TT football. The infamous JW, DJW and eventual NC. Ppl have they own bacchanal to deal with. How many Columbians was getting call with their cartel business. Only now they outta the regular news, some managing to see a little way. Majority of big football SA still playing at home, mind you, they have longer and stronger organizations than us, and still hardly big work. We behind them in so many ways, and evrytime, someone have a vision to take us forward, they are  embarrassed, removed or quit, and we ride on another hope to get us thru (it's how we have been). I hope one day that changes.

Oh really? Argentina has a population of 45 million.

[maxg]

And the Caribbean?

[asylumseeker]

As for Mexico....the Mexican league is considered an elite foreign league.  At least on par with MLS

The Mexican league is better than MLS.

Not to change topic. Just a story. I was in Mexico for a swim meet(Lilman).Next to the pool there was astro turf football field, baseball field and rugby field. There was organized football matches on that field from 9:00 am to 9:00 pm/ 5 days/ week. Fete-matches on Saturday and Sunday. No baseball, rugby nor cricket. I ask the pool security guy, how come. He explained during the day is night-shift workers league, from 3 to 6:30 is schools league, from 6:30 to 10:00( we left at 9) is  men and women clubs league. Weekends is ole timers leagues. Although my leg was in a cast, he asked if I play this weekend if I wantto run. I think he meant if I used to play. I ask him if it have a cripples ole-timer serving beers on the side league. Point is they play football whole day everyday. At least in that town. We ain’t like that and probably never will be. As I think TF said, we have seasons. I said to myself hmmm. So when they running their big league better believe they experienced, knowledgeable and know wtf their endgame is. Oh this was Puerto Vallarta .  Couldn’t imagine what going up in that environment is. And still they ain’t make WC  final yet.

Build it and they will come.

There are great pros who don't have a NFL or NBA ring or have never won a PL, FA, Scudetto etc.

Mexico has qualified for 16 WCs, 7 Round of 16 appearances and 2 appearances beyond the Ro16.

At U-17 level, 14 WC, 2 WC trophies, 2 x "silver medallists", 1 4th place. All of the "heavy lifting" in the last 20 years.

In which direction are they heading?

And, the Mexican league is a destination league not a retirement destination.

[Deeks]

And, the Mexican league is a destination league not a retirement destination.

The Mexican league maybe not be the best in the world, but it is the best in NA, and better than some in SA. It is the best organized league in the Concacaf and Conmebol put together.

[Tallman]

And, the Mexican league is a destination league not a retirement destination.

The Mexican league maybe not be the best in the world, but it is the best in NA, and better than some in SA. It is the best organized league in the Concacaf and Conmebol put together.

Like people forget Tigres reach de 2020 FIFA Club World Cup Final against Bayern. They only lost 1-0.

[Controversial]

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

THIS 🤞🏾

Beyond that.....no domestic football for over a year.

We delude ourselves into thinking we have this abundance of football talent in T&T.

If that were truly the case, wouldn’t others recognize it and sign them to contracts?

There’s a reason that other than Levi Garcia, not a single one of our players Under 23 have been picked up by an elite foreign club.

There is an abundance of talent locally, but why play in a catch ass league where you have the dictator as one of the big fish?

Where is the incentive to play local football? There is none, you cannot support your family. TT have too much talent and it’s going to waste because the govt, private sector and football admin is the worse thing ever...

No money, no support and plenty of fight down

Plus most of these local coaches can’t identify talent properly ...

[maxg]

Sometimes I wonder if/when Non TTians read this site, they might think TT and football is the worse ppl and attitudes in the world. I won’t bother to grab quotes to show what causes me to think so. I know better, and I don’t wish no noise or debate. It’s just a thought.

[Tiresais]

To your point, the players to be called are not novices. Bring the experienced players and adopt success to their attributes. Don't exclude them as if we have that luxury and don't insist on predetermined squarepegging in round holes.

How can we be out of foreign-based when smaller populated qualifiers are still reinforcing?

Anyone worth their salt can learn what we are playing.

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

1. Not excluding no-one, but you must admit, the picking are at present slim. Do you have any sort of list of who of quality is playing at present ? Maybe we can assist TF in finding them.
2. True, but they might be confused to what that is, as we couch coaches are. And is not that we never kick lime.

Bear in mind, there is NO domestic football.

THIS 🤞🏾

Beyond that.....no domestic football for over a year.

We delude ourselves into thinking we have this abundance of football talent in T&T.

If that were truly the case, wouldn’t others recognize it and sign them to contracts?

There’s a reason that other than Levi Garcia, not a single one of our players Under 23 have been picked up by an elite foreign club.

We don't, but Mexico in our region definitely seem to have more than us, how many Mexicans getting major leagues contracts (besides the neighbourly MLS).

This is mostly true, but we will always fight an up hill battle as what clubs in their right mind send scouts to our region? We've got a collective population similar to Argentina in the Caribbean but with significantly higher costs of travel, worse infrastructure, worse coaching coaching poor FAs. Our players often go abroad via the US, random agents, and optimistic flights abroad for a trial.

That I believe explains that. Is not like were constant finalist in regional tournaments. We do have a few, but I as a foreign manager, would quicker take a chance with a championship player from the region, unless we make a tour and discover a youth with potential and get him before he spoil (Yorke eg.). The rest have to try ah thing if they can afford it. Even Latapy had to go this route, if I'm not mistaken. Especially now, what ppl hearing bout in TT football. The infamous JW, DJW and eventual NC. Ppl have they own bacchanal to deal with. How many Columbians was getting call with their cartel business. Only now they outta the regular news, some managing to see a little way. Majority of big football SA still playing at home, mind you, they have longer and stronger organizations than us, and still hardly big work. We behind them in so many ways, and evrytime, someone have a vision to take us forward, they are  embarrassed, removed or quit, and we ride on another hope to get us thru (it's how we have been). I hope one day that changes.

Oh really? Argentina has a population of 45 million.

Apologies for the lack of clarity - the population of the Caribbean is similar to Argentina, which was my overall point

[Tiresais]

This is mostly true, but we will always fight an up hill battle as what clubs in their right mind send scouts to our region? We've got a collective population similar to Argentina in the Caribbean but with significantly higher costs of travel, worse infrastructure, worse coaching coaching poor FAs. Our players often go abroad via the US, random agents, and optimistic flights abroad for a trial.

Prior to the pandemic, scouts went everywhere.  Besides....technology rendered much of that travel moot.  If you’re good.....word gets around.  Teams are ALWAYS literally scouring the earth looking for talent.  The Caribbean is no exception.

We’re just not good enough.  Which is interesting because I’ve heard the perception is players from the Caribbean are athletic, strong, and quick.  Characteristics they look for in modern football.

Competition is more stiff today than in Dwight Yorke days......and he was an anomaly. 

Today de yute from Maloney Gardens in competition with yutes from Nigeria, Ghana, Japan, etc.  Not easy.


As for Mexico....the Mexican league is considered an elite foreign league.  At least on par with MLS

Scouts everywhere... but the Caribbean and Oceania. There's a reason it took so long for Joevin Jones and our other players to get discovered. Foreign scouts rarely visit.

Players typically get opportunities overseas through the small number of agents active in the region, or because some team has a Trini/Carib player and takes a chance on their recommendations. When we do well internationally also helps - Yohance Marshall stopping Leonel Messi from 8 yards helped kick off a spate of Central American transfers for example.

Technology hasn't helped us as so few of the FAs actuallly stream games, let alone get accurate stats. It's the biggest issue and one I highlighted 7 years ago (after attending a confidential briefing from Man City's scouting department as part of Football Manager) - the big clubs need that appearance/goals data to run through their software. We can't even get reliable lineups for our games. Global soccer Database have partnered with the National Super League and that has hleped immesurably, but the Pro League is still a total load of crap when it comes to that. How many games did Joevin play in 2012 for W Connection? I can find out how much some random player playing in the 7th tier of English football played in 2009, but we have basically no figures for our top flight.

And what good does that do us if no games are streamed or available to watch? No scouting software has access to our local games, so why would scouts spend several thousands of pounds on the off chance someone's decent here? Scouting in person is mostly the last stage - scouts will see a player in person between 2 and 8 times, but the head of scouting or someone who makes the final decision will see them only once. I'm telling you from personal experience and contacts in the game - it's bloody difficult to know if a Trini player is good or flattering to deceive from outside Trinidad.

I don't buy into the "athletic, strong ,quick" vibe, it's usually a cover for racist attitudes towards black players that have existed for decades. Any country can produce players with those attributes (just think about how many countries, mostly black-majority, this type of stereotype applies to), just check the athletics track - smacks of the old failures highlighed by "Moneyball". One of our advantages is that our youth are blooded in competitive football young and have some of the competitive drives that other nations sorely lack, but often this advantage tapers off as they get old. Unless players leave to get full-time professional coaching this potential dies on the vine, as has happened so many times (Ross Russel Jr., Cyrus, Joevin Jones and Devon Jorsling to an extent off the top of my head).

Competition from abroad would be a non-factor if our youth had a competitive game to develop in domestically, with full time coaches and a full-time job. Even without the English players, Jamaica has been better than us for years now and it's becoming embarassing just how much they have progressed despite the shit-show that their local FA is.