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Author Topic: Here is another white elephant  (Read 24382 times)

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Offline Themanfriday

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2006, 12:40:59 AM »
Since I have not been home for over 10years... I lived in Marabella and heard that there is a stadium there. Where is the horse racing done now? Have they made better facillities for that in another town? Have these newly built facilities accomplished even 25% of what they were meant to do? I ask this in all earnesty. I miss home and want to go visit It is only because of Work and financial constraints that i have not yet.

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Offline dcs

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Piarco Part Deux
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2007, 10:13:44 PM »
Brian Lara academy cost soars...

From $275m to 558m


By Gail Alexander
Trinidad Guardian
Friday 11th May, 2007




The cost of the Brian Lara Cricket Academy—part of the controversial Tarouba Sport Complex—has risen from the initial estimate of $275 million to approximately $558 million, Sports Minister Roger Boynes has confirmed.

Speaking at yesterday’s weekly Whitehall briefing, Boynes acknowledged the initial cost of the Tarouba Sport Complex had been an estimated $850 million.

He said the $558 million estimated cost of the cricket academy, which is part of the complex, would take into consideration other infrastructure that “will speak to the rest of the complex (sic).”

Boynes said the original $275 million price of the academy was an estimate.

“As the overall plan has been completed, the completed cost is now approximately $558 million,” he added.

Boynes said the academy should be completed towards the end of 2007.

He said he intended to make a submission to Parliament on this “by about next week so (sic).”

Boynes said he was not happy the work “took so long in coming.”

He said there had been some challenges.

“The original site was close to the Manny Ramjohn Stadium in Marabella and was later relocated to the Tarouba Sport Complex,” he said.

“More infrastructure had to be gone into in that particular site (sic), more piling, that sort of thing.

“And the cost of material and labour, that sort of thing (sic). The prices would have increased.”

Boynes said one had to expect that the cost of material and labour for instance would increase.

He said in the type of preparations for the cricket academy, some infrastructural work would have been done “to speak to the whole (Tarouba) complex.”

“We’d have catered for some level of infrastructure that would speak to the rest of the development taking place,” Boynes added.

He said the Government had not reached to the point of assessing whether the entire Tarouba Sporting Complex would surpass the initially estimated cost of $850 million.

“We’re not at that particular level yet,” Boynes said.

“We’re only working on conceptual designs and we pulled out the Brian Lara Cricket Academy and that is all we’re focusing on at this time as we want to ensure it is the premier training centre...we’re focused on ensuring we complete that.

“At the end of the day we’ll assess the whole situation as related to the Brian Lara Cricket Academy—that one facility—out of several facilities that will make up the whole sporting complex.

“We’ll look at all work done and increased costs and we’ll learn from it that time.”

Govt role for Lara

Boynes said when the place was completed, it would be one of the most premier academies in the world “and that is what we’re going to be doing with Brian Charles Lara: we’re going to be asking Brian to assist us in ensuring we establish it as a premier training venue and we’re going to make it available to the West Indies cricket team to train there.

“God knows, they need the training,” Boynes added.

Asked if a government post was in the offing for Lara, Boynes said: “Let me put it on record: I have not discussed that with Brian Charles Lara.”

Since Lara met with Prime Minister Patrick Manning last Tuesday to reportedly discuss retirement plans, there has been speculation that Lara might be offered a political post or even replace Boynes as Sports Minister.

Boynes is not contesting his Toco seat due to a healing spinal problem.

Yesterday, Boynes said the Cabinet, in recognition of what Lara means to T&T and in recognising his achievements on his retirement from international cricket, had deliberated on this.

“And within a short period of time an annoucement will be made on what Cabinet decided,” Boynes added.

“Cabinet also deliberated on other matters and within a period of time I would come back to you and announce what some of these other things are.

“Needless to say, we will be hosting a commemorative function and there are other aspects also.

“Brian Lara will continue playing the role of Sports Ambassador for T&T.

“This is a very important role in ensuring the Brian Lara Cricket Academy is established as one of the most premier training academies in

the world.”
©2005-2006 Trinidad Publishing Company Limited

Offline Sentinel

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2007, 12:50:46 AM »

I agree with the opinions of Maxg, Dcs, Touches, Coops ...nuff said.

Too much other priorities that needs taking care off....from a business standpoint....that will support the economic needs and development of our nation....instead of political expediency that champions the need of any political party...although....their rhetoric indicates it will support the needs of sportmen and sportswoman of our country. 

From the information I have, there is no true mention of infrastructure that would insure the efficient use of the "White Elephant."  This venture only takes care of those special interest groups that will make millions..economically and politically..while compromising the use of the complex....because the ordinary person finds no easy access to the jungle.....or the ordinary man in the street finds the price to high to pay for its use.

Spend money on roads, railwaylines, water, electricity, the hospital etc. and upgrade existing complexes.

Luv U T&T

Offline Feliziano

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2007, 04:46:25 AM »
so the $850 million tsunami shelter even built yet?
so they saying the academy has a seperate price too?
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Offline Touches

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2007, 07:24:39 AM »
I only shake meh head when I read the article in todays Express.

We build Brian Lara stadium for what?

It was not completed for the cricket WC

Cost triple and we all know how things go in the construction industry.

I doe do this but for this post I have to rub it in.

I TELL ALYUH SO....waste of damn money.

I am working on a few govnt construction projects and this money could have gone a long way to the hospitals, health centers, roads, providing water for poor communities. A booster pump for water is 1 million dollars each dey coulda put 2-3 in all the rural areas and ease all the people woes.

Hospitals in a mess. I visiting a family member in POS daily and I beseech any of you living in TT to not get sick or in a accident because tings in these facilities grim.

I am also totally against all the big buildings going up in town because it does nothing but give foreign consultants architects and construction firms big money and nuttin for the locals.

Also these buildings will become just like any other nice new ministry building....filled with old desk, cubicle and mash up chair.

Do you know the A/c and maintenance costs for these buildings????

Instead of building a desalination plant for water or a ethanol plant for the caroni farmers so the by product of sugar cane for be used we building tower to block out the sun.

Doe frighten 850 Million go train the next cricket prodigy so when he make WI team he could make plenty runs and get call all kinda bad name.

Money well spent.

 


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Offline Jayerson

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2007, 09:18:32 AM »
I only shake meh head when I read the article in todays Express.

We build Brian Lara stadium for what?

It was not completed for the cricket WC

Cost triple and we all know how things go in the construction industry.

I doe do this but for this post I have to rub it in.

I TELL ALYUH SO....waste of damn money.

I am working on a few govnt construction projects and this money could have gone a long way to the hospitals, health centers, roads, providing water for poor communities. A booster pump for water is 1 million dollars each dey coulda put 2-3 in all the rural areas and ease all the people woes.

Hospitals in a mess. I visiting a family member in POS daily and I beseech any of you living in TT to not get sick or in a accident because tings in these facilities grim.

I am also totally against all the big buildings going up in town because it does nothing but give foreign consultants architects and construction firms big money and nuttin for the locals.

Also these buildings will become just like any other nice new ministry building....filled with old desk, cubicle and mash up chair.

Do you know the A/c and maintenance costs for these buildings????

Instead of building a desalination plant for water or a ethanol plant for the caroni farmers so the by product of sugar cane for be used we building tower to block out the sun.

Doe frighten 850 Million go train the next cricket prodigy so when he make WI team he could make plenty runs and get call all kinda bad name.

Money well spent.


 

Just a few minutes ago my colleagues and i were speaking about the same thing. I don't know what else to say.

Offline Cantona007

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2007, 09:48:34 AM »
Touches et al, this is really grim news. To me, living in foreign and hearing this dotishness, it real disheartening. On a related note, can anyone update me on the latest with Imbert's toy train?
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
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Offline D.H.W

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2007, 09:55:58 AM »
I only shake meh head when I read the article in todays Express.

We build Brian Lara stadium for what?

It was not completed for the cricket WC

Cost triple and we all know how things go in the construction industry.

I doe do this but for this post I have to rub it in.

I TELL ALYUH SO....waste of damn money.

I am working on a few govnt construction projects and this money could have gone a long way to the hospitals, health centers, roads, providing water for poor communities. A booster pump for water is 1 million dollars each dey coulda put 2-3 in all the rural areas and ease all the people woes.

Hospitals in a mess. I visiting a family member in POS daily and I beseech any of you living in TT to not get sick or in a accident because tings in these facilities grim.

I am also totally against all the big buildings going up in town because it does nothing but give foreign consultants architects and construction firms big money and nuttin for the locals.

Also these buildings will become just like any other nice new ministry building....filled with old desk, cubicle and mash up chair.

Do you know the A/c and maintenance costs for these buildings????

Instead of building a desalination plant for water or a ethanol plant for the caroni farmers so the by product of sugar cane for be used we building tower to block out the sun.

Doe frighten 850 Million go train the next cricket prodigy so when he make WI team he could make plenty runs and get call all kinda bad name.

Money well spent.

 
dread i pass by that stadium a few weeks ago, that place aint even put d stands up or nothin yet it just looking flat with a set a conctrete pile up with rubble and a few workers moving around
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Offline dinho

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2007, 10:03:13 AM »
The funniest phrases in this article are...

"that sort of thing..."

"that will speak to the rest of the complex..."

What exactly that mean? It could be any more vague?

Man accounting for a whole extra $283 million and this is de terminology?
         

Offline D.H.W

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2007, 10:09:51 AM »
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million  :'(
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Offline kounty

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2007, 10:26:13 AM »
utter madness by anil...and to think he was a swimming coach right?  you see how political affiliation does lead men to talk stupidness.  Just last night I reading the article on the new swimming fella...homer. http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161143288
who break everybody record in his age group...swimming in a 25m pool.  I don't know how to make an analogy to the footballers on the forum except to compare it to if Trinidad only had fields with one goal and running up to half-line...and national teams everybody had to train on that half-field.  standard olympic (and by extension any international competition) does go on in a 50m pool.  the boy hatta spen time doing twice as much flip turns as anybody else in the world...ewven my small scruntin school here have a 50m pool..thaz just basics and trinidad have they international hopefuls swimming national competitions in 25m pools and fools on here talking about white elephants.

Offline Strip

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2007, 10:30:06 AM »
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million  :'(

that estimate was for the whole complex given the 275MM estimate for the cricket academy, now that the cricket academy cost has doubled.. they will surely revise that 850MM estimate upwards.

Offline FF

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2007, 10:34:23 AM »
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million  :'(

that estimate was for the whole complex given the 275MM estimate for the cricket academy, now that the cricket academy cost has doubled.. they will surely revise that 850MM estimate upwards.

I ketch yuh again

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Offline dcs

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2007, 10:47:49 AM »

So how much swimming pools it going to have in Tarouba?

They supposed to build one down in Cocorite...they even had Bovell at the location for some ceremony.  Center of Excellence supposed to have something too but I not sure what the latest is.

Anil also spoke about putting money into developing facilities throughout the country not just in one location for elite athletes...I don't think it in the particular article posted here.

To be fair to Boynes I am seeing a fair amount of money being put into developing community facilities....that was also in the release accompanying this tarouba ting.  We might need an elite training center eventually but they doing things out of order...as usual.

Look they going and have tenders for the rail system and the transportation study was sent back for revision.  They have ESP?

utter madness by anil...and to think he was a swimming coach right?  you see how political affiliation does lead men to talk stupidness.  Just last night I reading the article on the new swimming fella...homer. http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161143288
who break everybody record in his age group...swimming in a 25m pool.  I don't know how to make an analogy to the footballers on the forum except to compare it to if Trinidad only had fields with one goal and running up to half-line...and national teams everybody had to train on that half-field.  standard olympic (and by extension any international competition) does go on in a 50m pool.  the boy hatta spen time doing twice as much flip turns as anybody else in the world...ewven my small scruntin school here have a 50m pool..thaz just basics and trinidad have they international hopefuls swimming national competitions in 25m pools and fools on here talking about white elephants.

Offline Brownsugar

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2007, 11:38:01 AM »
Ah have to re-read this thread (from today's date) before ah respond more in depth....but ah listen to Roger Boynes on de TV last night and when de man done talk....ah feel like is best he did say what he had to say in Greek....yuh ever meet somebody who trying to pull ah fast one on yuh and de person using all kinda fancy terms to tie yuh up....dat is how ah feel when Boynes was on de TV last night....when he done all ah coulda think of was this little emoticon from this forum...
 :bs: :bs: :bs:

Touches et al, this is really grim news. To me, living in foreign and hearing this dotishness, it real disheartening. On a related note, can anyone update me on the latest with Imbert's toy train?

Boss...ah have grimmer news fuh yuh...dem is de same people who going to win de next election cuz we does only vote...African or Indian...."I is ah PNM or UNC till ah dead"...even though de country falling apart....dis government running dis place like de Oil and gas going to last to infinity.....and it have no Opposition to do just dat oppose de madness....

So Cantona007, mih eh know if yuh should start to bawl down de place or laugh like yuh mad.....but dis place sweet yes....

Leave it so, we like it so....
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Or yuh shoes burst off,
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Offline Strip

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2007, 12:25:24 PM »
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million  :'(

that estimate was for the whole complex given the 275MM estimate for the cricket academy, now that the cricket academy cost has doubled.. they will surely revise that 850MM estimate upwards.

I ketch yuh again

Go and do some work nah man!


damn...

Offline Deeks

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2007, 12:32:51 PM »
Good Afternoon Ball Jumbies,
                                           Leh me put meh two non-cents into this white elephant business.  Everybody knows TT need some kind of training site for the athletes, but most of us don't know how to go about it. When the Cubans, Bahamas, Jamaicans, Aussies and othe small countries win medals at the Olimpics, we shouting we should do like them. The facility is needed. The fact is the gov't don't know their head from their two-knees when it  comes to cost estimation. They probably knew the estimate all along, but they gave low estimate to prevent uproar. The English, who we copy so much, did some "real cool" estimate on Wembley. IT was plagued but delays and wrong cost estimates, labor strikes. But now that it has finished everybody "seemed" to forget the cost.

I thought that the training center would have been built in Marabella near the stadium. But they said they don't have enough room. Only people from South and those who are familiar with the area can inform us. I hope when it is finished they design programs for elite and non-elite athletes. I hope they  have  a  UTT branch for student/athlete to continue his or her education.  like  I said in a previous thread, Port -of-Spain/EW corriodor have the most facilities. South must have theirs too. That is Patrick legacy to the South people. One thing of note. Private financial backing to this project is  unknown. Why is this?

Offline Jahyouth

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2007, 01:33:39 PM »


Didn't many people also curse, carry on and oppose the building of the Promenade?  However, it is many of these very people who now love and enjoy the Brian Lara Promenade and hail it as a superb addition to the city of Port of Spain.

To provide a football reference, didn't many people also curse, carry on and oppose the dropping of Captain Angus Eve (along with National team veteran Anton Pierre and others) upon Leo Beenhakker's assumption of the post of Coach?  Those very people hailed Beenhakker as he led Trinidad and Tobago to an unprecedented berth as the smallest country ever to qualify for a World Cup.

Trinis like to oppose for opposing sake most of the time.

Go ahead and fund and build the facility in Tarouba.  Allow the people residing in the South to also reap the benefits of the petroleum and natural gas that their very land provides.  Using Anil Roberts' argument os "location location, location" nothing would be built in any area other than Port of Spain, San Fernando and (to a lesser extent) Arima then?  As Anil Roberts himself says, "That deserves a big steups!"

Build the facility, put in measures to ensure upkeep, and allow local youth and the public at large to enjoy.


Offline dcs

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #48 on: May 11, 2007, 02:24:17 PM »

www.power102fm.com  Anil talking about it now.

Offline maxg

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #49 on: May 11, 2007, 02:54:52 PM »
nb: This post was started almost 2 years ago, before any sod was turned.
Ppl, in responding please consider, that the original discussions were all hypothetical....Now that were are seeing the "Concrete" results...I am certain that the whole thought process and planning behind this project was....to quote brownsugar "  :bs:  "...
brownsugar, forgive meh if ah take your quote out of context...ah ralize yuh was speaking on the explanation given by the Minister, and not the whole project..

Wait allyuh, ah suspect the rain just start to fall, and the bs is jus ah trickle, leh we hope ah flood doh lik up even more ppl as the weather worsens.

Offline maxg

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2009, 08:27:55 AM »
warning: OLD original post - 4 years
almost 2 more years added
personally ah like it, caus is d only time mrs G ever post...an the anniversary coming up   :rotfl:

from today's express

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161459731

well thought out eh ?

Offline Touches

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2009, 08:33:37 AM »
Ehy boy MaxG...we is collective millstones round people neck.  :rotfl:

and the stadium not fit to go een...steel have a failure rate or wha seventy someting percent.

Doh worry Maxg we does talk shit right tru ent.



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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2009, 08:37:32 AM »
Ehy boy MaxG...we is collective millstones round people neck.  :rotfl:

and the stadium not fit to go een...steel have a failure rate or wha seventy someting percent.

Doh worry Maxg we does talk shit right tru ent.






The Actus expert further noted that the steel was tested and two testing companies gave the steelwork failure rates averaging 78.5 percent.

“Two separate independent testing companies tested a significant representative proportion of the welds. The average failure rate of both independent tests is 78.5 percent.” McCaffrey expressed a desire to examine this aspect of the project in further detail, but said he was unable to.



Offline maxg

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2009, 12:20:26 PM »
Ehy boy MaxG...we is collective millstones round people neck.  :rotfl:

and the stadium not fit to go een...steel have a failure rate or wha seventy someting percent.

Doh worry Maxg we does talk shit right tru ent.



boy Touches we in the wrong business, how much millstones does make, bet is less than kite-paper...
maybe BS analyst
This fella musbe get this idea in this thread     ::)
http://guardian.co.tt/news/general/2009/04/01/lara-stadium-wrong-spot-engineer
"Consulting Engineer Arun Bush says a location close to the Mannie Ramjohn Stadium in Marabella would have been better to construct the Brian Lara Cricket Stadium. He said if that venue was chosen many of the problems with the soil at the chosen Tarouba site would not have arisen. He said the facility would have cost less than $300 million."

Offline ann3boys

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2009, 01:25:43 PM »
well if memory serves me right, near to the Mannie Ramjohn was the original location, and the govt decided to put the stadium opposite. I don't think there was ever a reason. actually the location was changed after the design was approved.
go figure!! maybe that's why the govt isn't complaining about the cost as it rises and rises... they know why :devil:

Offline Deeks

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2009, 05:42:31 PM »
The idea of the complex was a good one. But whoever convince thenm to go Tatouba should shoulder the blame for the impasse. Patrick and all the yes men should take the blame. I don,t know marabella that well. But couldn't build the complex near Mannie Ramjohn? Is there not enough land around that area.

Offline maxg

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2010, 05:20:53 PM »

Offline Deeks

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2010, 05:56:48 PM »
I don't think it is a white elephant. South needed an international cricket stadium. That is Patrick legacy for south TT. North has the oval. South has Lara. The problem gross ineptitude by Patrick financiers. Most projects have cost overruns, but this stadium construction is diabolical.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 06:19:18 PM by Deeks »

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2010, 07:25:40 PM »
What about the structural integrity of the stadium itself. I recall reading one report that said the steel was not suitable. Did this report also address quality control ?

Offline che

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Re: Here is another white elephant
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2010, 09:19:41 PM »
Sad anniversary... :(

http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,118522.html

It will be ready for the next time West Indies host the World Cup.