Child Abuse & Murder News Thread

[truetrini]

not because my mother beat me mean it was  right and i never get abused eh, but licks cyar be good fuh chirren

[TriniCana]

give me an alternative...

[truetrini]

give me an alternative...

so yuh want alternative?

how many times yuh gets licks?

so if was effective yuh woulda have tuh get one cutarse////
see dat?

it eh dat effective ent?

beating a child inflicts pain and also fear, ot unnecessary tools in behaviour modification.

[truetrini]

http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tpbehavior/0,,njb0-1,00.html

Top 10 Ways to Handle Discipline Dilemmas

1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.

2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."

3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"

4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."

5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.

6. Refuse to get angry.
Instead of focusing on your child's misbehavior and working yourself into a lather, think of each conflict as an opportunity to guide and direct your child.

7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."

8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.

9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.

10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"

TIP: Remember these three important rules about punishment:



Don't assign a punishment when you're angry
Don't use punishment as revenge.
A more severe punishment is not necessarily a better one

[pecan]

http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tpbehavior/0,,njb0-1,00.html

Top 10 Ways to Handle Discipline Dilemmas

1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.

2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."

3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"

4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."

5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.

6. Refuse to get angry.
Instead of focusing on your child's misbehavior and working yourself into a lather, think of each conflict as an opportunity to guide and direct your child.

7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."

8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.

9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.

10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"

TIP: Remember these three important rules about punishment:



Don't assign a punishment when you're angry
Don't use punishment as revenge.
A more severe punishment is not necessarily a better one

TT . thanks for dat.

Cana, these are the alternatives .. not 'time outs'

All those items focus on resolving de issue at hand without force.  But just as importantly, all of these alternative involve communcation with de chile - paying attention to de chile.  A chile would prefer licks dan no attention and will do things to get mommy and daddy attention if it is otherwise lacking.

But I also have to admit it a lot easier to parent when one parent at home.

Cana, is it easy?  not all de time for the very reasons you cited.  Parents are too tired, too rushed, too stressed to pause and tink and to negotiate and to reason and listen.  So it easier to give dem licks like fire and call it a dey.

De problem with violence is that it teaches us dat de man wid the bigger stick will prevail.

And dat is how the society developed.  The strongest warrior became the tribal chief.

[WestCoast]

De problem with violence is that it teaches us dat de man wid the bigger stick will prevail.
And dat is how the society developed.  The strongest warrior became the tribal chief.

so ya tellin me dat ALL republican presidents mus ah get some serious licks den 

[Bourbon]

What they fail to realise is that a cutass cannot be distributed for the slightest whim and fancy. The child will get immune. Any child dat i responsible hadda be prepared to cut dey cards straight or be prepared for a cutass. I will talk to you let you know...dont do that....or else you will get licks. When i pull that belt...i explaining why yuh ass going and get cut now.....and den i delivering on my promise. Simple. Follow the rules.....things nice. Dont....well....yuh eh go enjoy it. Licks in conjunction with other measures are very effective in my opinion. Then they wonder why children acting up so. No sense of knowing order and knowing their place. Then again....a good bit of parents same way...and you cant expect a goat to make a sheep............

your technique is effective ... but here is de question

1) if yuh coud achieve de same outcome without a cutass .. would you consider dat alternative?

<edit> .. .corporal punishment says that violence is acceptable in situations defined by a person in authority.  de child has no say and becomes de victim.

Yes i would. I dont like beating. Really i dont. However it is effective. I got real licks in my time. My father used to sit me down....let me know why i getting my licks....and if i could justify why i should not get....well...i might get a reprieve. Also depending on the degree of the deed....it would be used in conjunction with other punishments. I would safely say no threat of punishment was greater than that of a cutass. Based on the mere fact that if i get ban.....well...i would go read or find something else to fill the void so it wasnt felt as much.

http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tpbehavior/0,,njb0-1,00.html

Top 10 Ways to Handle Discipline Dilemmas

1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.

2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."

3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"

4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."

5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.

6. Refuse to get angry.
Instead of focusing on your child's misbehavior and working yourself into a lather, think of each conflict as an opportunity to guide and direct your child.

7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."

8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.

9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.

10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"

TIP: Remember these three important rules about punishment:



Don't assign a punishment when you're angry
Don't use punishment as revenge.
A more severe punishment is not necessarily a better one

All that nice...and it has some valid points....however techniques like this hardly are effective on grown adults....much less children who are naturally selfish. How many of us would really obey traffic laws etc if there wasnt a possibility of repercussions? My analysis point by point

1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.

Very Valid. I try not to bawl at my little brother when i hadda administer discipline. Just yesterday i had to go out and before i went to bathe...he went to play game even though he had homework. I told him go do his homework and then play. When i was ready to leave...he still playing game. I warned him...if i come home and his homework not done correctly.....i would beat him because i told him to do his homework...and that more important than any game. He call me bout twice when i was out to make sure the way he was doing the questions were correct. The immediate knowledge of an impending cutass has a very telling effect. How many of us would just grab a pot when hot? The knowledge that yuh might feel some unwelcome pain causes you to think twice and approach the suituation carefully.

2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."

Exactly. This prevents things from going too far. Dont beat when yuh vex.

3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"

4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."

Mamaguay talk. You will tell children that...it eh no surity that they will even take you on. Ah mean.....i done dont want to brush my teeth.....and you tellin me that after i do that i hadda go and sleep...yet another unwelcome thing?? What dat doing for me??

5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.

Yes...an explanation often comes with all warnings of a cutass. I tell my brother...dont jump on the chairs cuz yuh will wear out the fabric...and if he does...i go have to beat him. Two days later......he jumping on the chair again. What supposed to happen now? The fabric on the chair is of no real consequence to him.....so why would he care? Children live for the short term....certainly not the long term. If they dont see any real way they would be affected in the short term...they dont really care. Why i go brush my teeth for...even doh you tell me dey go rotten and fall out? They here now ent? How you so sure dat go happen?

7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."

Yeh....you cant jus demand without explanation.

8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.

Really? Now....this contradicts the first point saying to be firm. Plus this makes the child think that no matter the command...that they can negotiate their way out of it....and detracting the respect that a parent should have. Negotiations kinda dangerous....in my opinion. Depending on the request...i might consider it.

9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.

Be serious. You expect the child to say....well....i go wear a clean one? If the child wanted to wear a clean one in the first place why would he give trouble. Children doh attach consequences to their actions naturally. They need to be taught the ability to do that. In fact....grown adults doh have that ability sometimes.

10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"

Licks for me is the last resort...or close to last. There isnt much else you can do beyond licks. Hence the reason for not dishing it out for any and everything as the child would get immune. I talk to you once..tell you dont do it.....tell you again....dont do it or else yuh go get a cutass......do it again....yuh cutass book.

[truetrini]

alright breds...cut arse it is den!

[TriniCana]

I take the day off just to read allyuh post in this thread  aye ah joking eh, nex ting somebody call meh boss and say cana home playing dey fool

I think i'll be in this thread for the day....jus reading and simulating the thoughts and ideas of my fellow forumities.
Bourbon as usual you took your time to explain 



ah coming back

[WestCoast]

ya doh do that anyway
Jez like de rez of us

[dwolfman]

give me an alternative...

so yuh want alternative?

how many times yuh gets licks?

so if was effective yuh woulda have tuh get one cutarse////
see dat?

it eh dat effective ent?

beating a child inflicts pain and also fear, ot unnecessary tools in behaviour modification.

One flaw in this argument. I never got licks at home, my mom preferred to take away something I liked to do, eg tv, sports, etc. She had to punish me more than once, but she would argue that the punishment was effective since most times I'd get punished for the same offence once. Children get into trouble so whether it is licks or some alternate punishment it's effectiveness should not be measured by how often it is used. At least that's how I see it.

I happen to agree that a parent should find other ways to enforce discipline besides beating, but once done in a controlled manner (and until I have children of my own) will not critisize a parent who does use it.

[TriniCana]

aye i entitled to play dey fool at least 3 times per day ya know

getting back to dey people thread.
There is a long scope for the word "beating". From 1 lash to 2 mins of licks that will leave the child brusied and battered.
A parent's stress and frustration today is not the same as 10 years ago...the children today is not the same as 10 years ago.  We all know that.
People go over the top by locking the kids in cages, no meals, handcuff them to a pole, throwing them against a wall.  THAT IS CHILD ABUSE in my opinion.  I didn't see this in no movie, I believe it was FOX did a documentary on abusive parents.

A slap, clout, pinch even the occasional ruler and belt on thei backside will leave no child emotionally unstable. I am not saying to beat the child into a unconscious state for his every single wrong doing. The child does something wrong, you speak to the child. He does it again, you speak to the child, this time sternly with a warning. That chlid has the option of either doing it again or listening. 70% of them will do it again....Bourbon said something similar and I agree with him.

I will have the relationship with my child that he/she knows they can come to me about anything and I will listen and let them know how I feel....that being said; I'm not your buddy, I'm your mother. You in my house, abide with my rules. If ya play dey ass, expect to be disciplined which will eventually turn out to be a cutarse providing your future actions.

thats my take on dis.
i hope allyuh continue with this thread....interesting  

[ribbit]

allya HAVE TO watch dis video of Russell Peters, a Canadian comedian
Immigrant parents and beating kids 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzKHQX59Wso
"somebody goin an get a hurt real bad" 
it IS funny, but I have to say I hope it does not trivialise this serious situation

that's a good clip

[E-man]

SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?

Assembly woman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids.

If yuh notice this woman is from my home town here. So we are heavy in the debate. I have to agree with Bourbon. Communication with the child comes first and they must know what they are getting punished for. They get a couple of smacks now and then, but at this stage they are old enough to understand when we communicate the rules. When a child is young and can't speak yet and they are touching something dangerous, the only way to get them to understand the danger is to tap them on the hand hard enough for them to realize "that doesn't feel good"
As they get older licks are dealt out only when explained and when they are in a particularly obstinate mood and demonstrating willful disobediance. Utimately the goal is to phase out corporal punishment and stand on effective communication. To that end TT's list as some great points.

[dwolfman]

A slap, clout, pinch even the occasional ruler and belt on thei backside will leave no child emotionally unstable. I am not saying to beat the child into a unconscious state for his every single wrong doing. The child does something wrong, you speak to the child. He does it again, you speak to the child, this time sternly with a warning. That chlid has the option of either doing it again or listening. 70% of them will do it again....Bourbon said something similar and I agree with him.

Good point. That's what I meant earlier about controlled. Punishment, in any form, if controlled and well thought out will be effective. Of course that is my opinion and I have no children, I can only speak from my own experiences of being punished by my mother.

[truetrini]

SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?

Assembly woman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids.

If yuh notice this woman is from my home town here. So we are heavy in the debate. I have to agree with Bourbon. Communication with the child comes first and they must know what they are getting punished for. They get a couple of smacks now and then, but at this stage they are old enough to understand when we communicate the rules. When a child is young and can't speak yet and they are touching something dangerous, the only way to get them to understand the danger is to tap them on the hand hard enough for them to realize "that doesn't feel good"As they get older licks are dealt out only when explained and when they are in a particularly obstinate mood and demonstrating willful disobediance. Utimately the goal is to phase out corporal punishment and stand on effective communication. To that end TT's list as some great points.

How about removing dangerous objects out of the child's reach?  Or putting plugs int the sockets that are within the child's reach?

Hitting a child can never, ever be ok.  Under no circumstances should we be hitting anyone, child or adult.  What prevents society from whipping you if you break laws?  Cheat o yuh taxes, run ah red light, speeding etc.?  he difference is you have rights...ent?

[TriniCana]

You know the parent 2 fingers tap on the child's hand, and the "don't do that again" statement that comes during or after the activity. TrueTrini you saying even that is not allowed?

You know what...it all boils down to parents not spending more time with their children - or infact cannot spend time with their children because of their schedules.
There are many people who shouldn't have kids...mainly because they don't know have the mental, financial, emotional and spiritual capacity to take care of themselves far less their child.

There are also some people who were brought up with a whip or pot pan dangling in front their faces 24-7.  Some just don't know the differences between scolding, beating and abusing a child or anyone as a matter of fact.

You all want to know what can scar a child emotonally and mentally for life. VERBAL abuse. We all survived the beating/scoldings  and live to tell the tale, but not many people surived the verbal abuse.

[truetrini]

the two taps as you describe it is ok....

e-man mentioned: "it does not feel good,"  see the difference?

all kind of child abuse is reprehensible.  verbal, emotional and physical, thing is they usually accompany each other.

[TriniCana]

the two taps as you describe it is ok....

e-man mentioned: "it does not feel good,"  see the difference?

all kind of child abuse is reprehensible.  verbal, emotional and physical, thing is they usually accompany each other.

anything negative does feel good i doh understand your question T
but sometimes you have to put aside your true feelings, and do what you have to do...right ?

ah scared to ask bout teachers beating or discipline your chile.
I would prefer dey suspend meh chile dan to beat him. You call me and tell me what he did, and I go take dey necessary action.
I don't know what frame of mind you coming to work/school in, den you take out ya frustration on my chile and land him in hospital.

These days Ms and Sir is 19 years old and jus come out ah Teachers training college with dey degree minus the classroom experience.

Back in the old school there were dey "trainee" teacher that came into the classroom for 3 months, it was the practical part of their studies.  I can't remember the correct term used to discribe them.
Anyway do they do that anymore ?

[truetrini]

the two taps as you describe it is ok....

e-man mentioned: "it does not feel good,"  see the difference?

all kind of child abuse is reprehensible.  verbal, emotional and physical, thing is they usually accompany each other.

anything negative does feel good i doh understand your question T
but sometimes you have to put aside your true feelings, and do what you have to do...right ?

thats just it, it should not be anything negative, it should be re-direction.  Besides I interpreted his statement to mean slaps on the hand to deter the child, not a little pat like how yuh does copliment someone.  The two tas would be enough to make the child wince at least, otherwise why would a parent do it i the first place?  It is a form of corporal punishment, which I am totally against.

Make the house child proof as the say by removing dangerous objects and put safety latches on cupboards etc. and safety plugs in sockets.

No need to lash a child.

[DeSoWa]

To put in my 2 piece...If you ask me, my first instinct answer would be doh beat, I don't like it as a way to descipline a child, but sometimes dat is the only way a child will stop doing what they doing.
I grew up in the era where you get licks for every and anything...and to tell you the truth ah did not like it, not then and not now, it just brought fear and resentment towards the beater. That is sending the wrong signals to the child and ah see it as a form of violence. For instance if your child always getting in fight in school or getting in trouble for hitting other students, how you go descipline dat child? by hitting him some hard clouts? 2 wrongs doh make ah right. So we have to look at other ways to descipline in ah non violent way. But  I must admit some children really deserve ah good licking  buh for me it doh seems right.

Big Up!

[TriniCana]

doh get me wrong allyuh...i really enjoying dis conversation bad. And I know we all won't agree on it, but I still appreciate the thoughts.

TT a question to you.
and I hope I word it properly.

your child, lets say age 10 calls you "that" word that you so dislike, that you said you will *"mash up "anybody ass if they ever call you dat. What would you do or say to that child ?
Would you walk away and punch in a wall ?

*not your exacts words*

[ribbit]

here's a biblical perspective taken from:  http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/browse_thread/thread/f5df1f4d170797f?hl=en


From the New International Version (NIV):


Proverbs 13:24
  24  He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
 
Proverbs 20:30
  30   Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being.

Proverbs 23:13-14
  13   Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
  14   Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death

Exodus 21:15
  15   Anyone who attacks (or kills) his father or his mother must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:9
   9   'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
  18   If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,
  19    his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.
  20    They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard."
  21    Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Mark 7:9-13
  9   And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
  10  For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
  11  But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God),
  12  then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother.
  13  Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

Matthew 15:4-7
  4   For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
  5   But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
  6   he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
  7   You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

==
i think the last few verses suggest that a family's first obligation is to the community which sustains them and then to their children. so any "indiscipline" which could weaken the community is intolerable.

[WestCoast]

oh gaum
quotes from the Bible
I know many people around the world will use use such information to further their agenda, but as we have seen in many Relegious organisations, the outcome freguently is never positive.
Some even mention DEATH........."'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.".........WOW
i am sure it is a mis-interpretation of the people who translated from the original text

[zuluwarrior]

yuh know wen ah see dey head line ah thought yuh was askin if man do or dont beat dey woman, because yuh know some ah dem doz say if yuh dont be mae yuh dont lov mae. buh since yuh talking buh chilren yuh ah to gah dem ah lil ring ears ,pinch somtimes , and wen dey reach teenager is roling pin ,pot spoon , ah shoe , or piece ah 2 by 4 or dey go make yuh shame oui .

[TriniCana]

Ribbs wha happen dey sar

umm all i jus want is to slap dey litle scamp for coming home late from school ya know and tiefin milo..nothing else.

Ribbs pull out bible yes

Proverbs 13:24
  24  He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
I couldn't have said that any better.

but but dey rest ah dem harsh boy.

[pecan]

Good Topic ...

TT and I agree ... under no circumstances is it OK to hit a child ..

Is corporal punishment effective?  yuh read some posts and they argue Yes.  Many chirren who were brought up where corporal was de norm grow up to be good ppl and contributors to society and dey would argue dat corporal is appropriate.  Yuh cyar argue wid that. 

But i still come back to alternatives .. .de examples dat TT listed will work if applied consistently.

Chirren under 3 doh understand .. but if yuh hit dem dey go soon associate de pain wid their behaviour.

Dat is called a Learned Response and it have nuttin to do wid understanding why dey shudden do someting.

Rats running a maze may get a electric shock if dey turn left instead of right.  And dey soon learn not to turn left.
Psy 101 - Learned Response

But chirren are not rats (except de Rat  ).  So under three, yuh remove dey chile from de situation or yuh chile proof de house until dey can be taught why dey must not touch the stove element.

I leken corporal punishment to smoking ...

Many smokers never get cancer .. but statistically, dey run de risk.

Many victims of corporal punishment grow up to be law abiding citizens and contribute to society and carry no emotional scars or baggage.  But yuh still run de risk dat some victims of corporal punishment will be traumatized or look back at their chilehood with bad memories of getting cutarse.

So my point .... if you can eliminate dat risk, why not do so???  You have nutting to lose.

Do NOT confuse de absence of a cutarse with de absence of discipline.

De alternatives do work ..

[TriniCana]

yuh know wen ah see dey head line ah thought yuh was askin if man do or dont beat dey woman, because yuh know some ah dem doz say if yuh dont be mae yuh dont lov mae. buh since yuh talking buh chilren yuh ah to gah dem ah lil ring ears ,pinch somtimes , and wen dey reach teenager is roling pin ,pot spoon , ah shoe , or piece ah 2 by 4 or dey go make yuh shame oui .

zulu you ain't easy nah

but to me when he reach teenager and all respect for meh house and me gone.... is time to find ya own place.  cause ah tell ya, if ah trying to discipline you and ya think ah hitting me or answering me back, we go have a misunderstanding and furniture go move.  Plain and simple.

[ribbit]

oh gaum
quotes from the Bible
I know many people around the world will use use such information to further their agenda, but as we have seen in many Relegious organisations, the outcome freguently is never positive.
Some even mention DEATH........."'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.".........WOW
i am sure it is a mis-interpretation of the people who translated from the original text

well i thought this might be useful - some of the posters here reminding us that God is the Boss, so i just scouting the religious angle.  

i doh like to think a child could be naturally wicked. i think wickedness is overwhelmingly learned. and beating a child is like trying to bend back a tree that didn't have a stake to guide its early development.

[pecan]

I reading a book called "The Sins of Scripture" by John Spong

He devotes a whole section to " The Bible and Children" and discuses all dem quotes Ribbit listed above.

Some excepts from his book and some of my thoughts .....

"Violence is always Violent, whether the victim be a child or an adult" -- why is it OK to hit a chile but if yuh hit a man in de street, it is called assault?

As you look through history, there were four classes of people, besides chirren, who were subject to corporal punishment:

1) Adult prisoners
2) Slaves
3) Women
4) Members of Religious Orders

What these groups all had in common was dat they were defenseless and had no rights. 

Yuh might argue that de first category deserve to have no rights .. but dat is a different topic for a different thread

But what about de other three?  At various points in Western History, it was OK to hit slaves, womens and certain religious ppl.

So why is it OK to hit chirren who are essentially defenseless and have no right?