The World Cup is about Creative and Attacking Football, The Bess Defense..

[TrinInfinite]

I must applaud Beenhakker on a good campaign and I wish him the best if he doesn't come back, bc he did ah good job nonetheless. However I feel the team played too defensive when we should have scored some goals and also played more attacking football, from the onset we played well against sweden and england but at the same time, we could have played our natural game, the best defense is a good offense, stern john is a good striker and has helped in the past but I feel like I said before, bbased on his form he would not score, I stated b4 that stern wouldnt score against england and sweden and he didnt, and he didnt score against para, which was disappointing, scotland and samuel could have filled his place easily, stern ended his career on a sour note bc people were chanting he would get de golden boot, which was far from the truth.

In the world cup, you need creative, running strikers which attack and run at the defenses, the back to the goal strikers like van nistelrooy dont score goals in the world cup, they are marked out of games like i stated b4, no one listens on here, sad tuh say, too bad glenn got injured bc he was more likely to score than stern, he creates chances, stern doesnt, stern requires service, we need attacking strikers for 2010, i suggest we dont employ a striker like sealy for 2010 bc we will run into the same problem, our frontline needs to be reaccesed and rethought, we are not lacking the mid but in front we lost the battle, if we are to progress further in the rounds, our strikers have to have a killer instinct, unlike stern who is class but to win games u need a striker the opposite of stern to create space and chances for the team especially against world cup defenses.

Beenhakker may have to adopt a more offenisve stance if he stays on and try and tap into the natural game of trinis, more attacking and creative football.

vibes it up

[sprog]

sounding good but i do feel our midfield needs a man or men who can thread that killer pass throught to the frontline, yuh saw what havoc was created when latas came on, he could do that, we need some visionaries in the middle of the park, but yuh dead on about the strike force.

[Bitter]

I see yuh reach back to pong somebody again.

When one of you guys tell me how you expect to play an open game aginst teams of the class of england and sweden and not get licks (with our defence!) then I will take you seriously.

Also, where are we supposed to miraculously get this world-class striker. Grow him in Moruga?..no wait, that is just where you peng does come from.

Regardless of what we like to see in a game, the World cup is really about stingy defence and teams taking advantage of thier opportunities.

Check the stats on goals-against for the last few winners.
Defence wins championships.

So according to the post-mortems we need:
* Better defence
* Better midfielders
* Better stikers

shit, we might as well just scrap the whole team... it hopeless, we lacking in every aspect of the game.

[palos]

the back to the goal strikers like van nistelrooy dont score goals in the world cup, they are marked out of games like i stated b4, no one listens on here, sad tuh say,

Hmmm...so who it is did score de 2nd goal fuh Holland against Ivory Coast?  A duppy?  Or dat wasn't world cup?

[masterblaster]

the back to the goal strikers like van nistelrooy dont score goals in the world cup, they are marked out of games like i stated b4, no one listens on here, sad tuh say,

Hmmm...so who it is did score de 2nd goal fuh Holland against Ivory Coast?  A duppy?  Or dat wasn't world cup?

what ah tink he tryin to say is dat chances don't come as easy for a back to de goal striker.  so when yuh do get yuh chances yuh must put dem away.

[palos]

what ah tink he tryin to say is dat chances don't come as easy for a back to de goal striker.  so when yuh do get yuh chances yuh must put dem away.

Ah hear yuh.  But ah was fortunate enough to go to de Holland vs Serbia game.  Some of de tings yuh appreciate wit LIVE football as opposed to football on TV.....especially when yuh a lil closer to de action, is

1 - How much bigger dem fellas really is in person dan on TV

2 - How much faster de game does appear to be

3 - A lot of off de ball tings dat go on that you don't generally see on TV

The 2 padnahs ah went with all were impressed with how much WORK and OFF DE BALL RUNNING that Van Nistelroy, Van Persie and Robben especially put een.  Ah mean....it was amazing.

Having seen Stern in action just a day before with T&T, there was absolutely no comparison.  Stern put very little pressure on the defenders when they had possession, he rarely if at all ran into channels to create space for his teammate who had the ball. 

It's interesting that TI was to choose Vanm Nistelroy as an example because one of the things that amazed us was just how much movement he was doing.  When he made a run....de man would fake left...fake right....run lil bit...stop....and then SPRINT to his intended channel.  His marker was ALWAYS off balance and had to be constantly aware of where he was.  His movement OFF THE BALL was incredible....and not just once or twice...but WHOLE MATCH!

I not sayin this to try and shit up Stern.  He is not the same type of striker as Van Nistelroy.  Just in my opinion.....Van Nistelroy is DEFINITELY not a back to the goal striker.  Can he play that way?  Of course...but his game is much more than what we see on the TV.

[ribbit]

what ah tink he tryin to say is dat chances don't come as easy for a back to de goal striker.  so when yuh do get yuh chances yuh must put dem away.

Ah hear yuh.  But ah was fortunate enough to go to de Holland vs Serbia game.  Some of de tings yuh appreciate wit LIVE football as opposed to football on TV.....especially when yuh a lil closer to de action, is

1 - How much bigger dem fellas really is in person dan on TV

2 - How much faster de game does appear to be

3 - A lot of off de ball tings dat go on that you don't generally see on TV

The 2 padnahs ah went with all were impressed with how much WORK and OFF DE BALL RUNNING that Van Nistelroy, Van Persie and Robben especially put een.  Ah mean....it was amazing.

Having seen Stern in action just a day before with T&T, there was absolutely no comparison.  Stern put very little pressure on the defenders when they had possession, he rarely if at all ran into channels to create space for his teammate who had the ball. 

It's interesting that TI was to choose Vanm Nistelroy as an example because one of the things that amazed us was just how much movement he was doing.  When he made a run....de man would fake left...fake right....run lil bit...stop....and then SPRINT to his intended channel.  His marker was ALWAYS off balance and had to be constantly aware of where he was.  His movement OFF THE BALL was incredible....and not just once or twice...but WHOLE MATCH!

I not sayin this to try and shit up Stern.  He is not the same type of striker as Van Nistelroy.  Just in my opinion.....Van Nistelroy is DEFINITELY not a back to the goal striker.  Can he play that way?  Of course...but his game is much more than what we see on the TV.

i know is not juss stern that not running off-the-ball. i see how some does settle in one spot like they trying to make it easy for beenie to find them on the pitch.

[TrinInfinite]

stern is a loafer juss like van nistelrooy, but van nist is better of course but sterns loafs the same way, van nist has been cricticised over here bc he is not playing de ball dey expected him to play, van n also plays with his back to the goal, thats when he doesnt score, when he runs, he scores, unlike stern who deosnt run atall.

[Bitter]

I am a Stern supporter. The man know how to play his position. Before he got injured, he was scary with his back to goal - at least at the MLS level. Now.. well, he not what he used to be, but nonethless (and the stats bear this out) He is, and has been our best goal scorer.

The problem on this board is that men have a plate of hamburger in front of them and complaining how it doh taste like filet mignon.

Let me put it plainly. T&T DOES NOT HAVE ANY WORLD CLASS PLAYERS IN THIER PRIME.

What that mean? That means that you can't compare Stern to Van Nistleroy, or Carlos Edwards to Roberto Carlos, different class of player. Plain and simple.

Does that mean that they are no good? No. That means that they have to make up for the difference in other ways.  Does Japan have better players than T&T? Korea? probably not, but they make up for it in thier organization and determination. It's a mental thing.

The choice seemingly made by our technical staff and coach is to adopt the principles of the Dutch style to fill in the gaps between our normally woeful defending, indifferent midfield play and anemic attack.

The result was 3 of the best, most complete games this team has ever played, after what was essentially a 1 month training camp.

What next? The best (and most experienced) men are gone. But if we maintain, we have a framework to build on.

Players know that what is being put in place works. Once we build the dicipline needed to compete internationally, then we can let the T&T flair out of the box and really pressure opponents.

I am looking to the next goal for the warriors - Win the Gold cup. That would be a good guage of what we have really learned from this past year.

If we can't compete for our own federation's trophy, then we're not ready for the next level. And no amount of griping and complainng about who can and can't do what will help. It's a Team game.

[Bitter]

Some further notes:
1. It's great to see that we are discussing how to beat England and not just how to not lose to Costa Rica.

2. Getting open and scoring goals are a dark art. If it was easy, then lots more people would be doing it.

3. You don't actually have to run like an ass to get open, if you and the ball-carrier know what you are about to do, all that is needed is a little misdirection. Van Nistleroy, and the better Van - Van Basten, run  when it counts, according to what the defender is trying to do. Sweden's downfall against T&T was 4/5 T&T effort and 1/5 them not knowing/being able how to change the point of attack to counteract the defence. 

[palos]

Some further notes:
1. It's great to see that we are discussing how to beat England and not just how to not lose to Costa Rica.

2. Getting open and scoring goals are a dark art. If it was easy, then lots more people would be doing it.

3. You don't actually have to run like an ass to get open, if you and the ball-carrier know what you are about to do, all that is needed is a little misdirection. Van Nistleroy, and the better Van - Van Basten, run  when it counts, according to what the defender is trying to do. Sweden's downfall against T&T was 4/5 T&T effort and 1/5 them not knowing/being able how to change the point of attack to counteract the defence. 

Really nice posts (the last 2)

Respeck.

[ribbit]

Bitters (yuh first name angustura?  ),

what doez class have to do with this? running off-the-ball is about effort not class. even a shithong like myself know about running off-the-ball - yuh telling me stern and them don't know about this and van nist know about this because he from a different footballing class?

nah nah, come again. 

[Bitter]

There are 2 players involved in a pass. The passer and the receiver. If they are not on the same wavelength then everything is off. That moment of indecision is enough for a top defender to close down the play.

You ever play with people from different countries? it takes a while for you all to figure out what works and what doesn't. Even then, in the heat of battle,sometimes you get it wrong. ball goes to nobody player cutting in when you thought he was cutting out.

The difference between Van Nistleroy and Stern is that Stern is making the run when he and the passer agree to make the connection. Van Nistleroy is making the run before the passer knows he's going to make the pass. 1/2 second is the difference between World Class and English championship level

Quality service helps a lot. Van Nistlroy is like the #1 offside man in the premiership, so the connection isn't always there, but when it is, it's already too late for the defender.

When Stern is offside - and he had a couple close calls tuesday - trinis does cuss. We're taught that the forward should be able to make that adjustment. But to score in the top levels, you have to play on the edge. and sometimes the linesman misses the call - Ask Harry Kewell

[palos]

There are 2 players involved in a pass. The passer and the receiver. If they are not on the same wavelength then everything is off. That moment of indecision is enough for a top defender to close down the play.

You ever play with people from different countries? it takes a while for you all to figure out what works and what doesn't. Even then, in the heat of battle,sometimes you get it wrong. ball goes to nobody player cutting in when you thought he was cutting out.

The difference between Van Nistleroy and Stern is that Stern is making the run when he and the passer agree to make the connection. Van Nistleroy is making the run before the passer knows he's going to make the pass. 1/2 second is the difference between World Class and English championship level

Quality service helps a lot. Van Nistlroy is like the #1 offside man in the premiership, so the connection isn't always there, but when it is, it's already too late for the defender.

When Stern is offside - and he had a couple close calls tuesday - trinis does cuss. We're taught that the forward should be able to make that adjustment. But to score in the top levels, you have to play on the edge. and sometimes the linesman misses the call - Ask Harry Kewell

Ah likin your posts and dem more and more sah.  More respeck!

[Feliziano]

the other thing is look who passing ball to Van Nistelrooy for him to run the channels.
we have Theobold in de mix plus half a team who cant even pass a ball effectively and with confidence

[Bitter]

Ah likin your posts and dem more and more sah.  More respeck!

I just trying to inject some sense into the debate. it have lots of people who feel they know this game, but  don't undestand it. The ability to kick the ball is only the beginning. That is why this game is beloved, so simple yet so complex, and everyone can put thier own personality in it and be successful (well to a point)

[palos]

the other thing is look who passing ball to Van Nistelrooy for him to run the channels.
we have Theobold in de mix plus half a team who cant even pass a ball effectively and with confidence

You might have had a point IF Stern was making an effort to run into dem channels in the first place.

De fact is.....Stern is not a run into de channels kind of striker.  He is your basic bring the ball down...hold the ball up and bring the midfield into play (which he does very well for the most part I might add) type of striker....then go into the box hoping for a ball coming across the penalty area, get a touch or header...and if he get that 5 times in a game... he MIGHT score 1.

Ting is....Stern was playing lone striker for T&T and the opposing defence pretty much had a walk in the park when he was the lone striker.  beenie brought on Glen in the sweden game when we were a man down because as strange as it may seem...it helped to keep the defenders honest as Glen was the one making runs and putting pressure on the defence.  Stern played a crucial role in his ability to get on the end of goal kinks and flick headers on for Glen.

In a sense....Stern needs a second MOBILE striker to be truly effective.  No blame to Stern....that's just his game.  Which is why I originally said it's no use comparing Stern to Van Nistelroy.  2 completely different type of strikers.

[Organic]

TI r u tryign to say u would have prefered we attacked more at the risk of getting more goals.rather than play defensive and try n play for a counter attack.  all i saying...is that we played within out limitations..a lil to much maybe maybenot but nonetheless  our good showing  was based on our defensive  cohesion. if we didnt defend so well we would have gotten demolished because sweden and england still had a lot of chances which they spurned.  the best defence sf only a good offence for teams with the best attacking players..hence brazil doesnt need to defend well. we dont ahve that luxury. we had chances which we didnt take..i dont really think attacking more would have chnacged over all results...and if it had it would have served to "embarass" us. whereas we finished with more than respect we finsihed with our greater engendered pride.
i kinda agree to u about stern though, but w ehad to play with what we have and he still was a good pic. we dont have much more strikers with his experience and we all hoped that would have made up for his limitations..it didnt. by the way pepo inzaghi poacher supreme scored today....sooo.... u never knwo eh. and stern ahd our best chance ..which great defeing by john terry saved.  we have no real creativty in the midfield now. we wa slackign that befor latas came in. the delicate through balls was lacking greatly in  pre latas qualifying. who is there to replace him now. i ent seeing no one.
please dont forget tirni football still in its infancy interms of highlevel consistiencya nd quality. not in terms of time..but that to kinda. we are building. give bennie time...maybe he will eb vindicated by history..but we need ot give him time.. rome wasnt built..etc etc.