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Author Topic: Where the young Soca warriors ?  (Read 5078 times)

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Offline jai john

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Where the young Soca warriors ?
« on: August 08, 2006, 11:27:53 AM »
I couldn't help but wonder if our TTFF really serious about taking us up to the next level when i saw advertised the international youth tournament to be held from this weekend in Villareal, Spain.

teams taking part include Villareal, Espanol, Barcelona, Boca Juniors, Liverpool,Celtic,Milan, and get this The Ivory Coast repesentative team.

Where we ?

Surely the soca warriors must capitalise on our new found fame to get into youth tournaments like these which will benefit our youth.  Is it that we are not ready or is it that we are not worldly enough to know about these things ?

This tournament is now in its seventh year !!
we want to be among the best at the senior level ...well ???

Offline doublet750

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 11:36:23 AM »
boss sad reality is TTFF in my opinion no where close to ready to hold the proper thigns fo r that level you talking about....i must comend the dutch man WIM plans but they sadly onyl acomodate the youths of trinidad (not bad ) and not any one with ties to the nation.....makes me believe that until i see the dutch plan in action lincoln phillips was the best TD i have seen so far....the man had screnings at diferent tynmes in teh eyar ot acomodate everyone...and knew wat we needed to get done..but he has since been givin a lesser role with respects to the youth footbal development role

Offline spideybuff

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 11:49:59 AM »
We now send 2 sides to the dallas cup and now we have a CFU u-16 tourney at home right now. The TTFF doing stuff fellas...at least when Lincoln was at the helm. I for one seeing our younger teams being more active. And I would give them a bligh for right now cause most of the youths supposed to be trainidn for SSFL right now, which is why they schedule more youth tours etc around easter and xmas.

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Offline jai john

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 11:51:39 AM »
boss sad reality is TTFF in my opinion no where close to ready to hold the proper thigns fo r that level you talking about....i must comend the dutch man WIM plans but they sadly onyl acomodate the youths of trinidad (not bad ) and not any one with ties to the nation.....makes me believe that until i see the dutch plan in action lincoln phillips was the best TD i have seen so far....the man had screnings at diferent tynmes in teh eyar ot acomodate everyone...and knew wat we needed to get done..but he has since been givin a lesser role with respects to the youth footbal development role

Let me tell you how right you are ..even small club teams in Venezuela make annual trips to barcelona, deportivo la Coruna real madrid etc. ..you think they ready ? ....but now Juan Arango is lighting up the La Liga advertisement this year with his goal against real madrid where he split the defence and rounded Casias..

If these clubs could go, what about our nationals ??? We play Venezuela at youth level and for those who have been following for a long time ...the gap is widening !

We used to beat them easy now ???

Offline futbolfan

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 11:52:56 AM »
nah man de team in serious preparation for de prestigious  Caribbean Football Union Youth Cup...first yuh creep den yuh walk....there will be other international youth tournaments in Spain and around the globe....and eventually we will be represented.....lets just give de "new" administration some time to implement the "new" development plan.... :beermug: :beermug: :beermug:
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Offline College

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 11:55:05 AM »
Could this be an invitational tournament?  Can someone say for sure?


From all apperances, this appears to be a recruiting exercise to which you have to be invited,..... nothing TTFF could do here.

Huh, ah actually defending TTFF.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 11:57:31 AM by College »

Offline jai john

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 12:04:16 PM »
Could this be an invitational tournament?  Can someone say for sure?


From all apperances, this appears to be a recruiting exercise to which you have to be invited,..... nothing TTFF could do here.

Huh, ah actually defending TTFF.
you may be right but my point is the door is still open now after our WC exploits ...a little later and we might find the iron runs cold !

Offline andre samuel

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 01:46:25 PM »
we have to creep before we run 100 metres.

what good will it be to send our team there in a foreign country speaking a foreign language playing a completely new style of play to get hammered??

USA has many youth tournaments and so to does england, let us start there and eventually when our youths mature we can take them to that other spectrum.

Plus i agree with spideybuff, we are doing alot of things to develp our young ones.  Please note that these things take time and they dont necessarily guarantee success...

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Offline kicker

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2006, 01:58:17 PM »
I couldn't help but wonder if our TTFF really serious about taking us up to the next level when i saw advertised the international youth tournament to be held from this weekend in Villareal, Spain.

teams taking part include Villareal, Espanol, Barcelona, Boca Juniors, Liverpool,Celtic,Milan, and get this The Ivory Coast repesentative team.

Where we ?

Surely the soca warriors must capitalise on our new found fame to get into youth tournaments like these which will benefit our youth.  Is it that we are not ready or is it that we are not worldly enough to know about these things ?

This tournament is now in its seventh year !!
we want to be among the best at the senior level ...well ???

Do you know the criteria for taking part in this particular tournament ?

Why was there not a cry to be in such tournaments before we ever qualified for the WC ?

One WC qualification is not gonna turn things around overnight.....and T&T football has no "new found fame" as you call it either. I think it's good to see the authorities putting things in place to build on our experience this Summer, because the doors aren't just gonna open for themselves. If we couldn't get into such tournaments before the WC, chances are we're not going to be in them now either..... The World isn't all of a sudden amazed by T&T's football.....It would be great if we had the connections to network our way into such tournaments as you mentioned, but to think that a WC appearance would do such automatically...........keep dreaming.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 02:26:34 PM by kicker »
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Offline andre samuel

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2006, 02:17:12 PM »
well said kicker!!

take dat dosage of reality in yuh pwefem!!

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Offline doublet750

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2006, 02:23:48 PM »
well said indeed kicker......like i said lets just watch and see the dutch men plan and in reality we have to give them some credit....mexico only hiring a coach who present a 4 year plan and fortunately for us we hired one who noes da players and wat we need and also provided us with a plan for the future ...

Offline Midknight

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2006, 02:55:53 PM »
I couldn't help but wonder if our TTFF really serious about taking us up to the next level when i saw advertised the international youth tournament to be held from this weekend in Villareal, Spain.

teams taking part include Villareal, Espanol, Barcelona, Boca Juniors, Liverpool,Celtic,Milan, and get this The Ivory Coast repesentative team.

Where we ?

Surely the soca warriors must capitalise on our new found fame to get into youth tournaments like these which will benefit our youth.  Is it that we are not ready or is it that we are not worldly enough to know about these things ?

This tournament is now in its seventh year !!
we want to be among the best at the senior level ...well ???

Do you know the criteria for taking part in this particular tournament ?

Why was there not a cry to be in such tournaments before we ever qualified for the WC ?

One WC qualification is not gonna turn things around overnight.....and T&T football has no "new found fame" as you call it either. I think it's good to see the authorities putting things in place to build on our experience this Summer, because the doors aren't just gonna open for themselves. If we couldn't get into such tournaments before the WC, chances are we're not going to be in them now either..... The World isn't all of a sudden amazed by T&T's football.....It would be great if we had the connections to network our way into such tournaments as you mentioned, but to think that a WC appearance would do such automatically...........keep dreaming.

hoss u just get a free membership on the reality check committee  ;D
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Offline jai john

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2006, 04:09:07 PM »
Obviously many have not followed the Senegal story .....who was Senegal before the WC ??? who didn´t want any player from senegal after ?
Let me also give you another ...a friend brokered  a deal for my son to get a try out with a pro team here ...a difficult task normally.... he told him my son was from Trinidad and he played with Dwight Yorke !!  Volia !
 
Football is about marketinng yourself at the right time ...you will find it isn´t always about football ...
You think Ferdinand, Cannick, Graveson, El hagi Diou, etc were only footballing decisions ?
Now is the time to be a trinidadian footballer. The seniors have paved the way for the TTFF to bravely kick down doors ...but I guess that approach might scare some ...so continue waiting for some english club to discover you at 28 and let some agent plunk you in the 3rd division ..

Bertter still, try to get in the MLS ..now THAT will equip us to beat the USA, mexico and Costa Rica next time around.

Where are the Darrel Browns and Hasley Crawfords and Roger Gibbons who dared to face up to the challenges of this world ...

 You wanted a reality check....let me give you one ....

FYI we played against Brazil...who went on to lift the under 20 WC the next year, Italy youth team at the oval, we played in the youth WC held in T&T, the under 20 WC in australia , not to mention getting the same result as Ecuador against England in the last WC ... how many more credentials do we need ....

I guess we eh arrive as yet !

Offline kicker

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2006, 04:31:59 PM »
Obviously many have not followed the Senegal story .....who was Senegal before the WC ??? who didn´t want any player from senegal after ?
Let me also give you another ...a friend brokered  a deal for my son to get a try out with a pro team here ...a difficult task normally.... he told him my son was from Trinidad and he played with Dwight Yorke !!  Volia !
 
Football is about marketinng yourself at the right time ...you will find it isn´t always about football ...
You think Ferdinand, Cannick, Graveson, El hagi Diou, etc were only footballing decisions ?
Now is the time to be a trinidadian footballer. The seniors have paved the way for the TTFF to bravely kick down doors ...but I guess that approach might scare some ...so continue waiting for some english club to discover you at 28 and let some agent plunk you in the 3rd division ..

Bertter still, try to get in the MLS ..now THAT will equip us to beat the USA, mexico and Costa Rica next time around.

Where are the Darrel Browns and Hasley Crawfords and Roger Gibbons who dared to face up to the challenges of this world ...

 You wanted a reality check....let me give you one ....

FYI we played against Brazil...who went on to lift the under 20 WC the next year, Italy youth team at the oval, we played in the youth WC held in T&T, the under 20 WC in australia , not to mention getting the same result as Ecuador against England in the last WC ... how many more credentials do we need ....

I guess we eh arrive as yet !


breds we totally get your point and the gist of the post, but to arbitrarily chose a youth tournament, and ask why we're not in it based on the fact that we've been to the world cup and have some "new found fame"......is a little pie in the sky, especially from a knowledgeable poster like yourself....... and especially since you admittedly don't even know what it entailed to take part in the particular tournament...

Like I said, it would be great if we had the contacts to network our teams into the highest level of youth competition......and I hope to God that we're building on such.......but I'm not about to pull arbitrary youth tournaments out of the sky and and question our non-participation, on the grounds of a WC qualification....and use that as some sort of indictment on our currently developing youth program......especially when I don't even know the details of such....

Making sense or not ?

p.s. Don't compare us to Senegal. They beat the defending champs in the opening match of the tournament and advanced to the q-final. That by itself is alot more marketing that a 0-0 tie and two 2-0 losses in the first round......
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 04:34:41 PM by kicker »
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Offline jai john

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2006, 05:03:18 PM »
Like I said, it would be great if we had the contacts to network our teams into the highest level of youth competition......and I hope to God that we're building on such.......but I'm not about to pull arbitrary youth tournaments out of the sky and and question our non-participation, on the grounds of a WC qualification....and use that as some sort of indictment on our currently developing youth program......especially when I don't even know the details of such....

Making sense or not ?

p.s. Don't compare us to Senegal. They beat the defending champs in the opening match of the tournament and advanced to the q-final. That by itself is alot more marketing that a 0-0 tie and two 2-0 losses in the first round......

we may be on level peg on some matters here but I chose this tournament as an example of a tournament outside of the status quo..... as I am sure you know I have been advocating for a long time ...a shift from the anglocentric route to development seeing that the english have not won anything since 1966 at either youth or senior level.
In fact England is not a fixture at any world youth tournament and the USA is just starting to come into this forum ...no doubt due to their strong latin base.
my point again ...and i will try to make myself clearer next time ...is that we should try new things , look to new horizons. We should find out where the top youth teams are playing...and these are not national teams but clubs , and try to get into the programme.
I used Venezuela as an example.. and you can see how their football has improved as they now can beat Uruguay, chile, Ecuador etc...which never happened in the past.
maybe our club teams are not good enough but our nationals have to get exposure so the rest of the caribbean will shake when they draw T&T ...like in the past.
Do we have to wait to see Jamaica in a tournament of this nature  before we think of finding ways to be involved ?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 05:47:54 PM by Tallman »

Offline jai john

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2006, 05:14:41 PM »
let me also add that it is at these tournaments that individual players can get their big break. the trend today is to buy early and place in a good youth programme then either incorporate or sell later. the player has a strong developmental base in this case and will be better for it later.
I am just wondering how hutson charles, faustin, dexter francis etc would have developed if given an opportunity like the aforementioned ?

Offline kicker

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2006, 05:45:01 PM »
let me also add that it is at these tournaments that individual players can get their big break. the trend today is to buy early and place in a good youth programme then either incorporate or sell later. the player has a strong developmental base in this case and will be better for it later.
I am just wondering how hutson charles, faustin, dexter francis etc would have developed if given an opportunity like the aforementioned ?

Well you never know........we might be on our way. I don't know all the intricate plans of the youth development team headed by Mr Corneal....it is my hope that we try such. Just because we weren't in this one doesn't mean that nothing is being done. It might just be the case that it's a more gradual process than we imagine.... Let's hope.
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Offline Jefferz

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2006, 05:51:04 PM »
UUUUUNCLE JAAAAAAACCCKKKK!!!!???? where are youuuuuu!?


wuh yuh expect de government to do some stewps.


i done give up on dem... these days ole tief is de most gracious and trustworthy.
since ah born or at least circa Copa Caribe

Offline ribbit

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2006, 05:51:54 PM »
good talk jai john. de point about marketing. ah have yet to see evidence that ttff has a higher concept of marketing. however, isn't this primarily the job of the players' agents?


Offline Filho

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2006, 06:03:17 PM »
yeah..I like this thread

Jai, yuh asking some boss questions. But take a step back and realize some of the responses very legit.
The key question is what is the criteria to get into these international youth tournaments. Some may be invitation only. Others you probably send an application. In any case, space will always be limited (at least in the better quality tourneys) and we may not yet make the cut.  

You ask, how do we position ourselves to make the cut? The most obvious way would be to start achieving great results at youth and senior international level. Despite an admirable WC debut, I have a feeling we are still far down the pecking order.  Another would be to initiate diologue with different footballing federations and their clubs. is the TTFF doing this? I do not know..even if it were, the results may take time.

Aren't the Under 16s preparing for the CFU youth tourney. That is a great youth team tournament. And they were at the Dallas Cup before the WC. These are two tournaments that traditionally have had teams that beat our Under 16 nationals, so the competition is relatively high. Finally, you have to consider finances. A decent amount of funds are being concentrated on the senior team who have just gone to a WC and are now travelling to Japan for a friendly. I have a feeling the TTFF does not have a lot of money to go around and we all know what corporate sponsorship is like in T&T. So maybe we turn down tournaments on account of insufficient funds...just a guess.

Anyway, you ask some good questions boy Jai, but yuh get some good responses too. No need to dismiss them outright.. I am sure there is a lot more the TTFF can do...but there are some key characteristics about these tournements we don't know. If we did, we might rethink our attitude as to what is actually being done and what is feasible

Offline Trini

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2006, 06:20:26 PM »
What I more worried about is that we not producing special, standout talents like we used to...
Where are the Yorkes, Sherwoods, Nixons, Dwarikas, Latas....Boys who stood out 2 levels above their respective peers at their time....
The last good yute we see come through was Kenwyne Jones a few years ago....
I know there is a large number of good yutes coming through, men like Sam have a real comprehensive database and thing, but my focus is on the SPECIAL players...
We need to be churning out yutes like Messi, Fabregas, Dos Santos...And dont tell me we cant, cause Dwight at 17 was phenomenal....Latas was the most exciting midfielder in CONCACAF at age 21 on the road to Italy...
I hope the ripple effect of the WC inspires some undiscovered talent quickly, cause to be honest, at youth level, we are about third in the caribbean, a very distant way behind Jamaica, who have beaten us convincingly at schoolboy level and U-16 (3 times, both home and away)in the last 2 years.....

Offline ribbit

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2006, 06:29:56 PM »
Where are the Yorkes, Sherwoods, Nixons, Dwarikas, Latas....Boys who stood out 2 levels above their respective peers at their time....

ah can guess wey ... dey sitting in front of de tv playing a DRED game of ps2 (or whatever it is dese days - ah behind).  ;D  DAT is wey talent gorn today.

what missing from today's generation, even 10 years back yuh could still find, is a thing called virtuosity. too many distractions - only dem w/o de technological leashes will reach de heights of a latas.

Offline takenoprisoners

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2006, 09:38:01 PM »
I agree, the Trinidad and Tobago Football federation must capitalize on whatever goodwill that is out there. Sep Blatter, among others had some very flattering things to say about our recent achievement. Were these just words? Maybe!  We are not so naive to think that we can automatically be invited to these tournaments,  but that should not deter us from trying.

Can Jack Warner help in this regard? I don't know, but he should try, we must not sell ourselves short.
 TTFF should leave no stone unturned to get to these tournaments,  because we should want the best for our young players.    If we have to get embarrassed, so be it. It is much better for them to be embarrassed now,  their reward wil be to reap the benefits down the road in 2014 and beyond.

(As a side note; In the sixties a Brazilian schoolboy team visited Trinidad with Edu et al. They handed out blows , a range of 10- 18 goals to teams like St Benedicts, CIC, QRC ,Fatima. In those days we thought we wuz good,some people said it was a waste as we were overmatched, in retrospect it was the best  foot-balling lesson the country ever got.)

We want our U-16 to learn and improve their game and to develop the habits  that would make them professionals. There is a  history of talented footballers falling by the wayside because of bad decisions (even recently). Proper guidance and exposure to the International game from an early age may help players avoid these pitfalls.
 
 Trinbagonians have the talent,  but it has never been properly harnessed. Trinidad and Tobago football has never had so much capital to spend both in the literal and figurative sense, don't let the opportunity slip away.
 
Jai John has the right approach, he is being proactive. Instead of accepting why we can't , he is saying why not!

 I hope the people in charge consider such tournaments as part of their development plans.

 Daniel Morelon and others used to come to Southern Games in Pointe-a -Pierre to compete against Roger Gibbons , Fitzroy Hoyte and Leslie King. Why?  They wanted to compete among the best.

We should not measure ourselves  based on the MLS program. Our goal should be about competing with the best at U-16  because we will be meeting the best at future World Cups.
Respeck.

Offline jai john

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2006, 05:39:57 AM »
I know we are a small country both in size as well as our football but let me say that often what keeps us back is not small size but small mind.

I  know there are youths out there who want to be like Ronaldinho, Messi and Thuram. they have seen them and are dreaming of one day being like them.

The TTFF are given the job to help them to achieve that and no one can tell me that our young people should not dream.

I have seen football in many leagues of the world and i can say that you can see talent in our young people equal to some of the best in the world.

If it were not so i wouldn´t waste time trying to make blood from stone but it is a fact.

I challenge anyone to scout around unannounced in T&T even the savannah leagues to test this.

I am not trying to put down thw TTFF but to wake them up.
Other countries are now looking at us and saying ...where dem little fellas tink deh going ..... we better watch dem yes !

Let us use dwight as an example ...how many Brazilians have won the European treble, how many Argentinians, how many Mexicans, Uruguayans, Colombians ...I tell you .....NONE !!!!

So if one of our players could dream ...... maybe the dream is not impossible after all ??

Offline Weh-it-is

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Re: Where the young Soca warriors ?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2006, 09:29:49 AM »
Where are the Yorkes, Sherwoods, Nixons, Dwarikas, Latas....Boys who stood out 2 levels above their respective peers at their time....

ah can guess wey ... dey sitting in front of de tv playing a DRED game of ps2 (or whatever it is dese days - ah behind).  ;D  DAT is wey talent gorn today.

what missing from today's generation, even 10 years back yuh could still find, is a thing called virtuosity. too many distractions - only dem w/o de technological leashes will reach de heights of a latas.
Some talented youth men must have immigrated into other countries with parents like the US or England and can't leave to come back and try out because of overstay… True Story!  :(
The ball is like a magnet if you continue to knock itit will attract, and then you can attack.  Get it?