War in Lebanon (Escape from Lebanon)

[doc]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

[FF]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

WOW 

[ribbit]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

[JabJab]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

I agree there  does not seem to be a 'clean' solution. In the end we all have to look out for our own. At least Israel tries to limit civilian casualities, no such luck with Hezbollah, Hamas etc, etc.

[Pompey]

So Pompey, you are my neighbour and you have no control over your son and he want to come over in my house and disrespect me and my family and the police (UN) not doing a damn thing. What amI supposed to do?

what you don't do, is bomb the whole damn street.

Tell me, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of at the moment? 70, 80?

[JabJab]

there is no solution, jews and muslims will always fight, jews will always feel they have tuh rule their promised land, their true promised land 2 me is the US, not israel

Historically Jews have been in the middle east as long as the arabs, persians etc. I am using historical not biblical fact. The extremists have no intention of ever living side by side with Jews [since for example Hamas Charter calls for the extinction of the jewish state  etc]

[ribbit]

So Pompey, you are my neighbour and you have no control over your son and he want to come over in my house and disrespect me and my family and the police (UN) not doing a damn thing. What amI supposed to do?

what you don't do, is bomb the whole damn street.

Tell me, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of at the moment? 70, 80?

israel in violation of plenty un resolutions. what the un doing about it?

[redtrinigirl]

What I find interesting in this whole conflict is that both jews and muslims come from the same ancestors, and the same people. They both acknowledge Abraham as their father, the starter of their faiths. They have such similar cultural religious practices. So many similarities. Same people, from same part of the world. But for the sake of religion (or the name of their religions) they are at war. I think sometimes God sits back and wonders what did he do in creating man.

[doc]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

Your conclusion however is that they deserve to be occupied. But they were until recently when the previous occupiers were forced out. Was a vacuum created for this current onslaught

[JabJab]

So Pompey, you are my neighbour and you have no control over your son and he want to come over in my house and disrespect me and my family and the police (UN) not doing a damn thing. What amI supposed to do?

what you don't do, is bomb the whole damn street.

Tell me, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of at the moment? 70, 80?

So how should Israel react? Sit down and try and 'talk' to these terrorists? Get another useless UN resolution? Give them a prisoner exchange again so they can keep doing it since it seems to work?

[ribbit]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

Your conclusion however is that they deserve to be occupied. But they were until recently when the previous occupiers were forced out. Was a vacuum created for this current onslaught

hi doc,

did you read reply #19? - this is another view of what happened in recent history.

[redtrinigirl]

So Pompey, you are my neighbour and you have no control over your son and he want to come over in my house and disrespect me and my family and the police (UN) not doing a damn thing. What amI supposed to do?

what you don't do, is bomb the whole damn street.

Tell me, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of at the moment? 70, 80?

So how should Israel react? Sit down and try and 'talk' to these terrorists? Get another useless UN resolution? Give them a prisoner exchange again so they can keep doing it since it seems to work?

WHy should they sit and talkto anyone?

Look, either you leave the people's land, or if yuh intend to stay, make up your mind to deal EFFECTIVELY with the conflict. They were going well with their idea of the wall. I think if they decided tokeep the jews inside of a walled state or city and protect themselves, it would have worked. But this constant retaliation, showing dem we badder han bad, that we mean business, all it's doing is creating more "terrorists".

And for your information, terrorism is a matter of perspective. To the israelis they are terrorists. To the palestinians and lebonese who are bombed and persecuted year in and year out, they are freedom fighters.

Cause I telling you right now, if Venezuela invade T&T, under the guise of protecting oil reserves, blah, blah, I for one will fight with everything I've  got to get backmy country, torun the occupiers. How is that different from the palestinians?

[superoli]

very simple

terrorist: you kill civilians and start a revoultion (Palestine)
Independence fighter: you kill civilians and start a revoultion (american war of independence)

[ttcom]

Bush and Blair need to remember that they have troops in Iraq and Afganistan.
When the kidnap american soldiers why didn't Bush order the troops to bomb everything in Iraq.
They send special forces to search for the soldiers.
Israel policy of ten eyes for one aint right.

[Filho]

I have two views on this, with no one more right than the other.

First you have the Israelis, or the "white Jews" as some call them. First off, they are not Israelis, as in the people in the bible. They are european people who practice the jewish religion, and were "given" a country by the brits and allieds after world war 2, in light of their presecution by the Nazis.

Because of this, you can kind of understand the arab views on them. They are not one of us, never tried to blend in or make friends. Just come in, and displace people who were living in the state of Israel (land anyway) for hundreds of years, all because they had the backing of the americans and brits, etc.

Then add to that the very aggressive and often violent Israeli reaction to every thing done to them. If you had neighbours, who for every inch, they take a yard, would you be able to live in peace with them? The Israelis are just as aggressive and warmongering as their enemies. Their access to advanced weaponry only add to the problem. It's like rocks and grenades versus fighter jets and guided missiles.

Now ask yourself this: if this were any other country, especially a non-first world country, who invaded and started bombing up their neighbours, wouldn't america and britain and NATO have already stepped by now and dealt with it? Makes one wonder. Because Iraq invaded Kuwait, america went to war. Yet the Israelis constantly bomb and invade and occupy their neighbours at will, and no one says boo.

Then on the other hand you have the Palestinians/Lebanese or active terrorist networks. Everybody talks about the suicide bombings and how bad they are to be waging this war on Israel.

Let me ask you this: if your country, or what has been your people's home for hundreds of years, is suddenly occupied by some foreigners, who then make you a second (or even third) class citizen in your own land, make it almost impossible for you to get a good paying job, and then displace you to where ever they feel, bomb you left and right for every protest or act of defiance, what would you do? Would you fight back?

How would you fight back? You don't have any great supply of money to buy weapons. There is an economic embargo on you and your people, because everyone it seems is supporting your occupier in their bid to rid you from the land. What are your options of resistance?

It is a very sad situation, created by the allieds who put europeans in a land that they had no rights too, and displaced a people who are from a culture where they never give up and will fight to the death.

Result? This is never going to stop. The war will rage on. And it will escalate, because the arab community will not stand for seeing their brethren victimized by Israel.

I cannot say one side is right. They are both victims, they are both committing unforgiveable violence because they believe they are right.

Lord help us.

No disrespect RTG, but except for those last couple of statements..did you really present the 2 views as you started off saying you would? I think the history of the situation is irrelevant now, because young Israelis being born today know no other home and feel like they never caused anyone harm...But all their neighbors hate them and would gladly kill them on sight.

Palestinians born today...they live like refugees on what was their land and see the Israelis as a powerful occupying force. Every day is a struggle and any sign of rebellion is met with brutal forceand civialin casualties are the norm. The worst part is both sides hiding behind the BIBLE..and when yuh add religion to the mix...it cyah done until one fall or someone else step in. I think we agree, someone else hadda step in quick or Israel will blast Lebanon back to the ninth century...either that or Iran and co. might jump in and then it will really really really get ugly.

Hezbollah and Israel need to organize a sweat on neutral territory. 11 v 11, extra time and penalties if it tied after the 90. If Hezbollah wins, the kidnapped soldiers have to return to Israeli and resign from the army, and Israel have to stop bombing Lebanon and pay for the damage they cause. If Israel win, they get back their kidnapped soldiers, stop bombing Lebanon, and doh have to fund any damage they cause. Both sides then sign a 5-yr cease fire, plus a rematch for pride. And I eh joking..so doh think I taking it light with the football talk. If US gangs coulda break-dance to solve conflict back in the day...football could solve problems too.

[JabJab]

So Pompey, you are my neighbour and you have no control over your son and he want to come over in my house and disrespect me and my family and the police (UN) not doing a damn thing. What amI supposed to do?

what you don't do, is bomb the whole damn street.

Tell me, how many UN resolutions are Israel in breach of at the moment? 70, 80?

So how should Israel react? Sit down and try and 'talk' to these terrorists? Get another useless UN resolution? Give them a prisoner exchange again so they can keep doing it since it seems to work?

WHy should they sit and talkto anyone?

Look, either you leave the people's land, or if yuh intend to stay, make up your mind to deal EFFECTIVELY with the conflict. They were going well with their idea of the wall. I think if they decided tokeep the jews inside of a walled state or city and protect themselves, it would have worked. But this constant retaliation, showing dem we badder han bad, that we mean business, all it's doing is creating more "terrorists".

And for your information, terrorism is a matter of perspective. To the israelis they are terrorists. To the palestinians and lebonese who are bombed and persecuted year in and year out, they are freedom fighters.

Cause I telling you right now, if Venezuela invade T&T, under the guise of protecting oil reserves, blah, blah, I for one will fight with everything I've  got to get backmy country, torun the occupiers. How is that different from the palestinians?

U joking right? That is not a good comparison as I said in a previous post Jews have been there as long as the arabs etc. The palestinian state/area etc was part of the Ottoman empire [the turks]  before WWII  etc. Anyway the point is they all live there now and Israel has made attempts at peace by pulling out of gaza as well as southern lebanon. And what do they get? More rockets fired at them, a govt in what will be palestine that has a charter that calls for their destruction, kidnapped soldiers in the north and south? It is not a perfect situation but until the arabs etc realize that they cannot destroy Israel and the only way is to negotiate some sort of peaceful settlement, things will never change. Both Egypt and Jordan recognized that fact and have made peace with Israel.

[JabJab]

I have two views on this, with no one more right than the other.

First you have the Israelis, or the "white Jews" as some call them. First off, they are not Israelis, as in the people in the bible. They are european people who practice the jewish religion, and were "given" a country by the brits and allieds after world war 2, in light of their presecution by the Nazis.

Because of this, you can kind of understand the arab views on them. They are not one of us, never tried to blend in or make friends. Just come in, and displace people who were living in the state of Israel (land anyway) for hundreds of years, all because they had the backing of the americans and brits, etc.

Then add to that the very aggressive and often violent Israeli reaction to every thing done to them. If you had neighbours, who for every inch, they take a yard, would you be able to live in peace with them? The Israelis are just as aggressive and warmongering as their enemies. Their access to advanced weaponry only add to the problem. It's like rocks and grenades versus fighter jets and guided missiles.

Now ask yourself this: if this were any other country, especially a non-first world country, who invaded and started bombing up their neighbours, wouldn't america and britain and NATO have already stepped by now and dealt with it? Makes one wonder. Because Iraq invaded Kuwait, america went to war. Yet the Israelis constantly bomb and invade and occupy their neighbours at will, and no one says boo.

Then on the other hand you have the Palestinians/Lebanese or active terrorist networks. Everybody talks about the suicide bombings and how bad they are to be waging this war on Israel.

Let me ask you this: if your country, or what has been your people's home for hundreds of years, is suddenly occupied by some foreigners, who then make you a second (or even third) class citizen in your own land, make it almost impossible for you to get a good paying job, and then displace you to where ever they feel, bomb you left and right for every protest or act of defiance, what would you do? Would you fight back?

How would you fight back? You don't have any great supply of money to buy weapons. There is an economic embargo on you and your people, because everyone it seems is supporting your occupier in their bid to rid you from the land. What are your options of resistance?

It is a very sad situation, created by the allieds who put europeans in a land that they had no rights too, and displaced a people who are from a culture where they never give up and will fight to the death.

Result? This is never going to stop. The war will rage on. And it will escalate, because the arab community will not stand for seeing their brethren victimized by Israel.

I cannot say one side is right. They are both victims, they are both committing unforgiveable violence because they believe they are right.

Lord help us.

No disrespect RTG, but except for those last couple of statements..did you really present the 2 views as you started off saying you would? I think the history of the situation is irrelevant now, because young Israelis being born today know no other home and feel like they never caused anyone harm...But all their neighbors hate them and would gladly kill them on sight.

Palestinians born today...they live like refugees on what was their land and see the Israelis as a powerful occupying force. Every day is a struggle and any sign of rebellion is met with brutal forceand civialin casualties are the norm. The worst part is both sides hiding behind the BIBLE..and when yuh add religion to the mix...it cyah done until one fall or someone else step in. I think we agree, someone else hadda step in quick or Israel will blast Lebanon back to the ninth century...either that or Iran and co. might jump in and then it will really really really get ugly.

Hezbollah and Israel need to organize a sweat on neutral territory. 11 v 11, extra time and penalties if it tied after the 90. If Hezbollah wins, the kidnapped soldiers have to return to Israeli and resign from the army, and Israel have to stop bombing Lebanon and pay for the damage they cause. If Israel win, they get back their kidnapped soldiers, stop bombing Lebanon, and doh have to fund any damage they cause. Both sides then sign a 5-yr cease fire, plus a rematch for pride. And I eh joking..so doh think I taking it light with the football talk. If US gangs coulda break-dance to solve conflict back in the day...football could solve problems too.

Sweet I like that ,bring it back to the point of this forum. Football. :-)

[ttcom]

football stop wars
Let Israel and The Palestinians play and the winner gets the spoils. By the way why is Israel playing Uefa?

[Trinimassive]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

I agree there  does not seem to be a 'clean' solution. In the end we all have to look out for our own. At least Israel tries to limit civilian casualities, no such luck with Hezbollah, Hamas etc, etc.

Yuh eh serious right

Everytime Hezbollah kill 5 Israelis the Israeli military kill bout 50 civilians.

It has been about 10 times as much. How exactly are they trying to limit civilian casualities. You know better than that....ah hope.

[superoli]

I not sure if you didnt know but Israel play in UEFA because all other middle east countries refused to play them and also thay have the small problem of crowd trouble

[Andre]

that area is a mess. they fighting for land and supposedly religion for yrs. the innocent will continue to die while the arms dealers get richer.

DER FUHRER (DUBYA) WILL SAVE US ALL!

[JabJab]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

I agree there  does not seem to be a 'clean' solution. In the end we all have to look out for our own. At least Israel tries to limit civilian casualities, no such luck with Hezbollah, Hamas etc, etc.

Yuh eh serious right

Everytime Hezbollah kill 5 Israelis the Israeli military kill bout 50 civilians.

It has been about 10 times as much. How exactly are they trying to limit civilian casualities. You know better than that....ah hope.

Well you right on that, but I meant it in terms of the actual targets and the number of civilians that could be killed if no caution was taken. When you look at the scale of the military action a lot more civilians could be injured. If you stop and look at things objectively you will see that Israel [whether you agree with them or not] are taking measures to try to secure the safety of their people. The terrorist organizations on the other hand intentionally target civilians for maximum emotional effect. A soldier blowing up a a building housing a terrorist leader with a satelite guided missile versus just dropping bombs on the whole strett is different to a lunatic going into a crowded market with women, children, old people and blowing him[or her] self up. I hope you understand the difference.

[ribbit]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

I agree there  does not seem to be a 'clean' solution. In the end we all have to look out for our own. At least Israel tries to limit civilian casualities, no such luck with Hezbollah, Hamas etc, etc.

Yuh eh serious right

Everytime Hezbollah kill 5 Israelis the Israeli military kill bout 50 civilians.

It has been about 10 times as much. How exactly are they trying to limit civilian casualities. You know better than that....ah hope.

TM, hezbollah has a practice of surrounding their people with civilians. they fire rockets from schools and hospitals. they are the face of the modern guerilla - they use the population as a shield. the relationship between the lebanese civilians and hezbollah is more complex. hezbollah does not represent the population nor do they protect the population. they do everything to use the population as a shield.

[ricky]

TM, hezbollah has a practice of surrounding their people with civilians. they fire rockets from schools and hospitals. they are the face of the modern guerilla - they use the population as a shield. the relationship between the lebanese civilians and hezbollah is more complex. hezbollah does not represent the population nor do they protect the population. they do everything to use the population as a shield.

Ribbit ah think you watchin too much CNN brudda

[Trinimassive]

TM, hezbollah has a practice of surrounding their people with civilians. they fire rockets from schools and hospitals. they are the face of the modern guerilla - they use the population as a shield. the relationship between the lebanese civilians and hezbollah is more complex. hezbollah does not represent the population nor do they protect the population. they do everything to use the population as a shield.

Ribbit ah think you watchin too much CNN brudda

Nah that is more like FOX News

[dinho]

TM, hezbollah has a practice of surrounding their people with civilians. they fire rockets from schools and hospitals. they are the face of the modern guerilla - they use the population as a shield. the relationship between the lebanese civilians and hezbollah is more complex. hezbollah does not represent the population nor do they protect the population. they do everything to use the population as a shield.

Ribbit ah think you watchin too much CNN brudda

for real, time to watch some al jazeera, some independent forums and blogs to get the other side of the argument...

not that CNN force-feed sh*t, which will tell you today that Israel incurred "minor casualties" in today's ground invasion, when the truth is hezbollah give dem some tempo on de border...

[Trinimassive]

israel is responsible for israel. lebanon is responsible for lebanon. if lebanon cyah (or doh want to) stop hezbollah, then lebanon deserve to be occupied.

I hope that eh an original thought

i argued about this from both side with a few of my very well-informed friends. i've read quite a few books on the issue as well from both sides. my thinking has also changed over the last several years from idealistism to more recently pragmatism. i don't see a clean solution ever in this conflict.

I agree there  does not seem to be a 'clean' solution. In the end we all have to look out for our own. At least Israel tries to limit civilian casualities, no such luck with Hezbollah, Hamas etc, etc.

Yuh eh serious right

Everytime Hezbollah kill 5 Israelis the Israeli military kill bout 50 civilians.

It has been about 10 times as much. How exactly are they trying to limit civilian casualities. You know better than that....ah hope.

TM, hezbollah has a practice of surrounding their people with civilians. they fire rockets from schools and hospitals. they are the face of the modern guerilla - they use the population as a shield. the relationship between the lebanese civilians and hezbollah is more complex. hezbollah does not represent the population nor do they protect the population. they do everything to use the population as a shield.

Ah guess that was the logic for bombing the Airport. The civilians won't escape so Hezbollah would have the maximum number of civilians at their disposal

[ribbit]

true, israel destroying infrastructure and killing civilians as well. ah not saying they not doing this. they are.

[Dutty]

*munch munch chew*

[ribbit]

so Dutty, it's past noon - yuh could take a drink now too   

 

according to the FIFA site, there was a WAFF championship scheduled to be played in Beirut next week. alot of middle eastern countries was scheduled to play. probably alot of them are stuck in lebanon or decided to cancel last minute. well, dem was never good at football anyway.