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Offline pardners

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2008, 11:01:37 AM »
Is Puerto Rico also considered a US territory ?
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Offline Flex

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Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2008, 11:04:33 AM »
Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).
[/size]

Caledonia's talisman heads home

Neal & Massy Caledonia AIA co-captain and talisman Marvin Oliver has played his last game for the "Eastern Stallions".
Oliver, a lanky midfielder with an impressive passing range, has agreed to join 2007 T&T Pro League champions, CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh, and is waiting only to explain his move to Caledonia coach Jamaal Shabazz before signing his new contract.
There seems to be very little that Shabazz, who Oliver described as a "father figure", can do to change the mind of his most gifted asset. Oliver said the lure of rejoining his first club proved irresistible.
"I started playing with Jabloteh from the age of nine up until I was 17 when I went away to live," Oliver told the Express. "I live in Bourg Mulattrasse (again) and this is an opportunity for me to play for my home-base team. Not many professionals away or at home get that chance.
"It is not about money or Jabloteh being a bigger club."
Jabloteh coach and former England World Cup defender Terry Fenwick is excited to add arguably the 2007 Pro League's best player to his squad and feels confident that the playmaker will help the "San Juan Kings" win more trophies.
Fenwick confided that Oliver, whose Caledonia contract expired in the close season, would join Jabloteh on a two-year deal for roughly the same salary he received with his former employers.
"I followed him a lot last season and I thought he was outstanding," said Fenwick. "For me, he was player of the year. He always wants to win and he showed a great appetite for the game and his work ethic even without the ball was fantastic."
Jabloteh, who had arguably the Pro League's youngest squad last term, managed just one trophy in 2007 but it was the most important one. Fenwick believes the 32-year-old Oliver can offer experience and leadership to the club while also adding variety to their play.
Suspended national coach and ex-Holland World Cup player Wim Rijsbergen expressed skepticism, last year, about Oliver's ability to assert himself on matches. Fenwick, a former Tottenham defender, disagreed.
"I think he is a leader," said Fenwick. "He is a captain-type player on and off the pitch and he led by example at Caledonia. And I think Trinidad and Tobago lacks leaders on the pitch...
"Unfortunately, a lot of Trinidad and Tobago players don't look like what European coaches might want... People might not recognise the great player he is underneath the dreadlocks and because of his (thin) physical presence."
Oliver admitted he had not discussed Jabloteh's direct style with his new coach but hopes they adjust their game slightly to suit his subtlety through the centre. Just as important to him, though, is his exit interview with Caledonia.
Oliver, although a free agent, is anxious to receive Shabazz's blessing. His last Pro League outing was a 2-1 loss to Jabloteh in December that assured the San Juan club of the 2007 title and confined Caledonia to third place.
Oliver will help Jabloteh defend their crown this year but does not want Caledonia fans to view him as a turncoat.
"I just want them to understand it wasn't a betrayal," he said. "It is an opportunity for a youngster in Caledonia to step up. That is the nature of the game...when you do well people will come for you and, if it was any other team, I wouldn't have moved.
"I love Caledonia and I love Jamaal and the things he helped me with. He is a father figure. But Jabloteh is the first club I played for and it is the opportunity to close off my career with the team I started with."
Last season, Jabloteh prematurely announced the capture of Caledonia's St Lucian defender Sheldon Emmanuel only for Shabazz to talk his prized asset into remaining with the Stallions. Shabazz appears to face a much tougher task in denying Jabloteh this time.
Oliver kayoed by visa problems.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).


Trinidad and Tobago midfielder Marvin Oliver must wait a bit longer to make his senior international debut after visa problems thwarted his bid to line up in Puerto Rico on Saturday.
Oliver's performances with Neal & Massy Caledonia AIA last season won him a call up under caretaker coach Anton Corneal, but he was surprised and disappointed to be omitted from this weekend's international against Puerto Rico.
However, a Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) source revealed that the lanky attacker was still suffering the backlash for living illegally in the United States in his younger days.
It is a situation that the local federation hopes to sort out before the start of the 2010 World Cup qualifying campaign.
The 32-year-old Oliver is poised to complete his move from Caledonia to T&T Pro League champions, CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh, but he is even more anxious to become a "Soca Warrior".
Trinidad and Tobago's next home assignment against Guadeloupe on February 6 has now taken up more significance for Oliver. The match will mark the centennial anniversary for the Federation.
It is a red-letter day for Rastafarians as well.
"The Guadeloupe game is important because it is a home game and is celebrating the century for the home association," said the dreadlocked player.
"But the sixth of February is also (late reggae superstar) Bob Marley's 'earth day' which makes it all the more special for me."
The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2008, 11:06:33 AM »
Is Puerto Rico also considered a US territory ?
Dis article might help
it says
"Puerto Rico has authority over its internal affairs.  United States
controls:
interstate trade, foreign relations and commerce, customs
administration,  control of air, land and sea, immigration and emigration,
nationality and citizenship, currency, maritime laws, military service,
military bases, army, navy and air force, declaration of war,
constitutionality of laws, jurisdictions and legal procedures, treaties,
radio and television--communications, agriculture, mining and minerals,
highways, postal system; Social Security, and other areas generally
controlled by the federal government in the United States."
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Offline kicker

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2008, 11:08:21 AM »
Is Puerto Rico also considered a US territory ?

Pretty much...
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Offline Mr Mc

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Re: Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
« Reply #124 on: January 23, 2008, 11:15:45 AM »
Not all career moves have to be about money, trust me I am learning this lesson everyday at my desk.  But to end a season highly regarded as the best midfielder in the league and not get a pay raise from the next contract...i dont see that as very smart at all.
Unless Fenwich tell him he go get to play abroad by playing under him.

Offline Bakes

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #125 on: January 23, 2008, 11:19:07 AM »
This is a question I would like someone to research.  Touches indicated that Marvin cyar get a visa which I agree with.  However, does FIFA not get involved.  So all the USA hah to do is deny we players a VISA and we have a jokey squad?

What is the criteria?  Must a nation grant entry to their country for any player regardless of the situation for a FIFA santioned event?

What, pray tell...can FIFA tell the US Department of State?  Has Condoleeza Rice ever even heard of FIFA?

Offline Trini _2026

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Re: Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
« Reply #126 on: January 23, 2008, 11:29:04 AM »
So who will take the back seat for oliver now guerra?
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Offline Sam

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Re: Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
« Reply #127 on: January 23, 2008, 11:45:34 AM »
But what Oliver have to do with Shabazz ? so you telling me no Caledonia players could play in the US ? or is the real and only reason is Oliver staying illegally in the US.

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Offline Brownsugar

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #128 on: January 23, 2008, 11:48:45 AM »
This is a question I would like someone to research.  Touches indicated that Marvin cyar get a visa which I agree with.  However, does FIFA not get involved.  So all the USA hah to do is deny we players a VISA and we have a jokey squad?

What is the criteria?  Must a nation grant entry to their country for any player regardless of the situation for a FIFA santioned event?

Arimaman, is ah long time you haven't tried applying for a VISA?.....just last week my best friend's 9 year old son was interrogated by Embassy officials, I guess just to see if there was any inconsistency in the info provided by her.....dey dread with dey VISA dese days....

Boy, things eh looking too bright for Mr. Oliver.....

What, pray tell...can FIFA tell the US Department of State? Has Condoleeza Rice ever even heard of FIFA?

Heh, heh, heh......good one dey B&S.....Good one....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 11:55:20 AM by brownsugar »
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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #129 on: January 23, 2008, 12:05:32 PM »
DoJ Immigration Law states if a person overstays in the US less than 1 year he is barred from the country for 3 years. Over a 1 year he is barred for 10 years...

I guess he needs to stay fit... ;D and when he is 42 (may be less) he'll be straight...

Offline weary1969

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #130 on: January 23, 2008, 12:17:48 PM »
Lisana say dey lookin into it
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Offline elan

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #131 on: January 23, 2008, 12:21:51 PM »
Then Why was Shabazz the Head Women's coach so long? They knew his background and his inability to go the the USA, yet they kept him as the Head Coach forever.
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Offline elan

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Re: Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
« Reply #132 on: January 23, 2008, 12:29:28 PM »
If you live in the USA as a child (below 18) then they don't count that against your Status. Also if you voluntarily leave the USA for your home country you can apply again after a certain amount of years and be considered.
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Offline Big Magician

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Re: Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
« Reply #133 on: January 23, 2008, 12:35:36 PM »
ok...
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Offline Mose

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #134 on: January 23, 2008, 12:41:20 PM »
Then Why was Shabazz the Head Women's coach so long? They knew his background and his inability to go the the USA, yet they kept him as the Head Coach forever.
Maybe nobody else was interested in the job?
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Offline Arimaman

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #135 on: January 23, 2008, 12:42:12 PM »
This is a question I would like someone to research.  Touches indicated that Marvin cyar get a visa which I agree with.  However, does FIFA not get involved.  So all the USA hah to do is deny we players a VISA and we have a jokey squad?

What is the criteria?  Must a nation grant entry to their country for any player regardless of the situation for a FIFA santioned event?

What, pray tell...can FIFA tell the US Department of State?  Has Condoleeza Rice ever even heard of FIFA?

No, but FIFA does have power and influence.  Who is to say that some other country cannot bar another player from playing in that country especially for a WC.  
Arimian to meh heart

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #136 on: January 23, 2008, 01:08:22 PM »
This issue may not be classified as a State Department problem but something implemented by Department of Justice US Immigration or a Homeland Security thing.

I doubt the FiFA have that much clout with the State Department... They may be able to influence things in other countries but this is the US of A and we (only cause I live here, I am a trini resident though) are the bullies of the world. She'll be like," f@ck FIFA.... who are they by the way G.W?" Do you really think an American would give anyone a chance or advantage to be better than them in anything...

Let's reason here... sorry Oliver, that's the way the crix does crumble!

Offline Filho

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #137 on: January 23, 2008, 01:16:18 PM »
Must a nation grant entry to their country for any player regardless of the situation for a FIFA santioned event?

Nope. At its worst, this would allow sport to provide a sort of safe haven for criminals or dangerous individuals. Some nations have dangerous enemies (real or suspected) and they put a lot of resources into keeping them out. FIFA doesn't have the power to override that...nor should they.

For less serious offenses, I could definitely see the TTFF (or a nation's FA generally speaking), and in very rare instances, FIFA stepping in to try to work out a solution for an individual or a team. Success may not be guaranteed, but no harm in trying to work with authorities, especially if there is some sort of misunderstanding.

and don't worry about the US weakening a T&T team by purposefully denying visas to better players. for one..they don't rate us. and it really makes no sense, since everyone would just return the favor.

Offline Filho

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #138 on: January 23, 2008, 01:34:13 PM »
This is a question I would like someone to research.  Touches indicated that Marvin cyar get a visa which I agree with.  However, does FIFA not get involved.  So all the USA hah to do is deny we players a VISA and we have a jokey squad?

What is the criteria?  Must a nation grant entry to their country for any player regardless of the situation for a FIFA santioned event?

What, pray tell...can FIFA tell the US Department of State?  Has Condoleeza Rice ever even heard of FIFA?

No, but FIFA does have power and influence.  Who is to say that some other country cannot bar another player from playing in that country especially for a WC. 

nothing is impossible..but this is counterproductive. countries that host the world cup try to generate good PR, and garner goodwill. they want to be viewed by the world in a positive light  and often use the WC to be a catalyst to boost the economy as a whole. doing something as foolish as refusing entry to a player on no legal grounds (especially a star player) could result in any number of things from bad publicity to the nation pulling out of the tournament to reduced revenues. After spending hundreds of millions of dollars on infrastructure and years of prep...it is highly unlikely a nation will try to saboptage its own tournament and taint its global image

Offline SUPA

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #139 on: January 23, 2008, 01:37:21 PM »
Touches, intelligent thread and nice piece of home work dey family.

Well as usual, ah taking ah quick log in, just tuh see who need tuh get large up (Touches), who need tuh get small up (still searching), who need tuh get cuss up (still searching) and who thread ah need tuh mash up (still searching). All yuh know there is no drama on dis forum, unless Supa in it. So meh dey ah, ah taking ah quick check and den dip again  ;)  ;D. HIGHLY BLESSED.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 01:40:06 PM by SUPA »
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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #140 on: January 23, 2008, 01:47:08 PM »
Touches, intelligent thread and nice piece of home work dey family.

Well as usual, ah taking ah quick log in, just tuh see who need tuh get large up (Touches), who need tuh get small up (still searching), who need tuh get cuss up (still searching) and who thread ah need tuh mash up (still searching). All yuh know there is no drama on dis forum, unless Supa in it. So meh dey ah, ah taking ah quick check and den dip again  ;)  ;D. HIGHLY BLESSED.

always amusing meh Supa, big up bredda!

Offline Arimaman

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #141 on: January 23, 2008, 03:07:24 PM »
This is a question I would like someone to research.  Touches indicated that Marvin cyar get a visa which I agree with.  However, does FIFA not get involved.  So all the USA hah to do is deny we players a VISA and we have a jokey squad?

What is the criteria?  Must a nation grant entry to their country for any player regardless of the situation for a FIFA santioned event?

What, pray tell...can FIFA tell the US Department of State?  Has Condoleeza Rice ever even heard of FIFA?

No, but FIFA does have power and influence.  Who is to say that some other country cannot bar another player from playing in that country especially for a WC. 

nothing is impossible..but this is counterproductive. countries that host the world cup try to generate good PR, and garner goodwill. they want to be viewed by the world in a positive light  and often use the WC to be a catalyst to boost the economy as a whole. doing something as foolish as refusing entry to a player on no legal grounds (especially a star player) could result in any number of things from bad publicity to the nation pulling out of the tournament to reduced revenues. After spending hundreds of millions of dollars on infrastructure and years of prep...it is highly unlikely a nation will try to saboptage its own tournament and taint its global image

I understand your perspective but Marvin is no criminal threat to the US as far as I know.  That is why I believe he could probably be able to get a visa, albeit it may be a one entry type situation.  Jamal Shabazz was totally different b/c of the terrorism concerns but Marvin did nothing of the sort. 

Sad part is I live in the US too, is a naturalized citizen and I tend to agree that the US really doh care bout nobody.
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Offline heete

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Re: Jabloteh sign Marvin Oliver.
« Reply #142 on: January 23, 2008, 07:49:51 PM »
nice we coming for d title again!!!!! guerrra will learn from the master

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #143 on: January 23, 2008, 07:58:09 PM »
while that is a great point, marvin won`t make a national team even if he had a visa,

Y call him to trail if u already knew he can`t fly thru the us, to make it look like he was givine a fair chance and he`s wasn`t good enough ( he is deff good enough). but atlease they can say de man was there in trail and he didn`t step up.

how u think de man will feel seein conrad makein de side befor him, or stephan ( very happy he`s there  ;D) makin it befor him, but from semi pro to playin for one of the top pfl teams is a great step so well done marvin, iknow you wanna play for tnt but u not gonna let dem keep u down,

he said it best himself. ' won`t play for a national team again but hopeing against all odds'


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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #144 on: January 23, 2008, 08:28:19 PM »
I played on the Staten Island Vipers with Marvin in 1999. He didn't have visa problems then... what happened? Marvin was and is a very good player. I can almost guarantee that Jabloteh want him because he is a quality player still, and has pace and vision even at 32. Age is not really a factor because when I was 33 at Colorado I won defender of the year. At 36 I won MVP with Totronto Lynx, so the argument about age is ridiculous. Even Brent Sancho at 31 is very capable, and more prepared than all the defenders at camp right now. I find that alot of the people on this forum think that just because a player is young he should be a shoe-in for international duty, but that level football requires things that alot of the young pplayers in T&T do not have yet. They need gamesmanship, and that comes from playing higher level football on a consistent basis. College football in the U.S is not a good barometer for whether a player will be good internationally. It is not a bad barometer for professional club football, but international football is a different animal. I can bet Julius James will do well at Toronto FC but at the international level I can't say for sure what his play will be like. How will he play against a Carlos Ruiz or Jared Borgetti. In that situation I think Brent would be the better choice right now.

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #145 on: January 23, 2008, 10:04:59 PM »
Mr Titus good talks there
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Offline weary1969

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #146 on: January 23, 2008, 10:13:08 PM »
Yep Rick yuh real slick wit yuh comments. We luv to right peeps off
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Offline asylumseeker

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #147 on: January 24, 2008, 01:03:26 AM »
Quote
I played on the Staten Island Vipers with Marvin in 1999. He didn't have visa problems then... what happened? Marvin was and is a very good player. I can almost guarantee that Jabloteh want him because he is a quality player still, and has pace and vision even at 32. Age is not really a factor because when I was 33 at Colorado I won defender of the year. At 36 I won MVP with Totronto Lynx, so the argument about age is ridiculous. Even Brent Sancho at 31 is very capable, and more prepared than all the defenders at camp right now. I find that alot of the people on this forum think that just because a player is young he should be a shoe-in for international duty, but that level football requires things that alot of the young pplayers in T&T do not have yet. They need gamesmanship, and that comes from playing higher level football on a consistent basis. College football in the U.S is not a good barometer for whether a player will be good internationally. It is not a bad barometer for professional club football, but international football is a different animal. I can bet Julius James will do well at Toronto FC but at the international level I can't say for sure what his play will be like. How will he play against a Carlos Ruiz or Jared Borgetti. In that situation I think Brent would be the better choice right now.

Agreed. I disgree with rejection of a player based purely on age. Current form, ability and compatibility with a proposed scheme of playing should be more decisive. Beyond that, incorporating the player into national training doesn't translate automatically into making it to all away matches or being used during all qualifying rounds. Some players bring a dynamic that can enhance a training environment. I can't comment on Oliver's specific situation in this respect, but I know enough about players to resist the idea of blanking players on demographics.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 01:18:31 AM by asylumseeker »

Offline Bakes

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #148 on: January 24, 2008, 01:08:14 AM »
This issue may not be classified as a State Department problem but something implemented by Department of Justice US Immigration or a Homeland Security thing.

State Department administers passports and visa issues.

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Re: The Real Reason Marvin Oliver Cyar make a TT side
« Reply #149 on: January 24, 2008, 01:16:16 AM »
With respect to the need for a visa ...  I have said before and I'll say again ... Why do we remain locked blindly in this 'via Miami' mindset? It has wrought havoc in a number of situations in the past and presumably will continue to do so.

There are direct flights to Central American destinations EVERY DAY out of Caracas. EVERY DAY! Not only do these flights obviate the need for dealing with the US, they are also practical for other reasons. Certainly, they are cheaper than charters.

A couple other considerations apply as well, but I'll leave it here.

 

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