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Offline pecan

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Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« on: September 18, 2006, 02:42:30 PM »
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Mon Sep 18, 7:12 AM - By Stephen Brown and Philip Pullella

 VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Al Qaeda militants in Iraq vowed war on "worshippers of the cross" and protesters burned a papal effigy on Monday over Pope Benedict's comments on Islam, while Western churchmen and statesmen tried to calm passions.

The statement by an umbrella group led by Iraq's branch of al Qaeda came after the Pontiff said on Sunday he was deeply sorry Muslims had been offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and holy war.

"We tell the worshipper of the cross (the Pope) that you and the West will be defeated, as is the case in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya," said a Web statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council.

"We shall break the cross and spill the wine ... God will (help) Muslims to conquer Rome ... (May) God enable us to slit their throats, and make their money and descendants the bounty of the mujahideen," said the statement, posted on Sunday on an Internet site often used by al Qaeda and other militant groups.

In Iraq's southern city of Basra, up to 150 demonstrators chanted slogans and burned a white effigy of the Pope.

"No to aggression!," "We gagged the Pope!," they chanted in front of the governor's office in the Shi'ite city. The protesters also burned German, U.S., and Israeli flags.


A speech by Pope Benedict last Tuesday was seen as portraying Islam as a religion tainted by violence, causing dismay among Muslim states where some religious leaders called it the start of a new Christian crusade against Islam.

The Vatican has instructed its envoys in Muslim countries to explain Pope Benedict's words on Islam.  Benedict's new Secretary of State, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, said the Holy See's nuncios (ambassadors) in Muslim countries would be visiting government and religious leaders.

French President Jacques Chirac refused on Monday to criticize the 79-year-old Pontiff, but called for a more diplomatic use of language.  "It is not my role or my intention to comment on the Pope's statements. I simply want to say, on a general level ... that we must avoid anything that excites tensions between peoples or between religions," Chirac said on Europe 1 radio.

"We must avoid making any link between Islam, which is a great, respected and respectable religion, and radical Islamism, which is a totally different activity and one of a political nature," Chirac added.

ARCHBISHOP DEFENDS POPE -  The head of the world's Anglican church, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, defended Benedict. "The Pope has already issued an apology and I think his views on this need to be judged against his entire record, where he has spoken very positively about dialogue," said Williams, the spiritual leader of 77 million Anglicans worldwide.

Williams told the BBC that all faiths could be distorted, and the Pope was simply giving an example of that.  "There are elements in Islam that can be used to justify violence, just as there are in Christianity and Judaism."

In Iran, a government spokesman said on Monday Pope Benedict's regret was a "good gesture" but not enough.

The Pope had referred to criticism of the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who said everything the Prophet brought was evil "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

Questions had been raised on whether a papal visit to Turkey in November could go ahead, but the government, while calling his remarks "ugly," said there were no plans to call it off.

The Pope, head of the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics, said the quotation did not represent his personal views, but failed to satisfy some Islamic groups seeking a full apology.

In Somalia, an Italian nun was killed on Sunday in an attack one Islamist source said could be linked to the dispute. A Vatican spokesman hoped the killing was "an isolated event."

A senior Chinese Muslim expressed anger over the Pope's comments, Xinhua news agency said on Monday. This was in contrast to Chinese reticence over last year's publication of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad in a Danish paper that sparked violent Muslim protests elsewhere in the world.

"In his speech, Benedict insulted both Islam and the Prophet Mohammad. This has gravely hurt the feelings of the Muslims across the world, including those from China," Xinhua quoted Chen Guangyuan, president of the Islamic Association of China, as saying.

China insists its Catholics belong to a state-backed church that does not recognize the Pope's authority. Muslims are also under state control.

About 100 Indonesian Muslims protested peacefully over the Pope's remarks outside the Vatican embassy in Jakarta on Monday.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline pecan

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2006, 03:00:40 PM »
What I have a hard time understanding is why is there this need to resort to violence to settle out differences.

We see it, not only in religious disputes, but every where around us.  There was a video on another post showing a fight between a Mexican football team and a Jamaican team.  man picking up rock and ting.

We see it on a less scale with Zidane and Materazzi (sp?).

Why???

Is our species so retarded that we have to resort to violence?

steups ...
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Offline grskywalker

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2006, 03:04:34 PM »
Why do "RADICAL muslims" get so hostile if you even mention Mohammed out of context

Offline pecan

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 03:15:14 PM »
Why do "RADICAL muslims" get so hostile if you even mention Mohammed out of context

Dais my frustration .. .the Pope attmpts to say that using violence to promote yoUr religion is a concenr .. then wat happens ... cries of Jihad to right the 'wrong".  WAT DE HELL????

Doh get me wrong .. Chritianity have it bad moments too ...
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Offline TriniCana

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 03:23:30 PM »
these people, now ah doh wanna call dem Muslims, Radical Muslims, or any other name...ah calling dem "these people"
who vex froth. well these people is either dey doh understand english or dey just want something to bitch about and tur be on TV

Since Bush ain't taking dem on....dey might as well "TRY" to start ah holy war.
Where meh Nortrodumas book gone....all this suppose to happen yes.

dey Pope used a quote from way back when - not his words
he apologized twice i believe - dey man have ah upset look on he face
dey kill ah nun out of revenge
dey bun dey USA, Germany, Italy flags (ah doh know why) and dey bun ah dummy dat look like dey Pope in his papal outfit
dey protesting in 7 other countries..

what more dey want ?
ah sure some backside book ah ticket tur dey vactican already with some liquid bomb in he toothpaste.

Offline morvant

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2006, 03:25:26 PM »
read dan brown books and yuh would understand everything
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

Offline TriniCana

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2006, 03:26:47 PM »
thanks Morvie...
 ;)

Offline Organic

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2006, 03:35:00 PM »
read dan brown books and yuh would understand everything
wah dan brown have to do with anything man. de man fraid to get sued he say he book is fiction.
allyuh do ge tlink eh....alot of the things in de man book...was denied as fact by the ppl who interviewed and got info form.
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Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2006, 04:15:13 PM »
I usually do not read the news but I took the time to read up on this, and I did the painfully teadious taks of reading the entire text of the speeck the pope made. I have come to one conclusion. "thers people"(according to Cana) have to be illiterate. The Pope made no statement relating to Muslims and violence.....He made a "QUOTE"
"These people" are just to uneducated to understand the difference.

If it was that he really said something that was wrong then every section of the Muslim Community would be outraged. Obviously the ones that are not outraged are the educated ones.







I now remember why I don't read the news.

Offline pecan

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 04:26:18 PM »
I usually do not read the news but I took the time to read up on this, and I did the painfully teadious taks of reading the entire text of the speeck the pope made. I have come to one conclusion. "thers people"(according to Cana) have to be illiterate. The Pope made no statement relating to Muslims and violence.....He made a "QUOTE"
"These people" are just to uneducated to understand the difference.

If it was that he really said something that was wrong then every section of the Muslim Community would be outraged. Obviously the ones that are not outraged are the educated ones.

I now remember why I don't read the news.

thanks for that insight ...

problem is dat these illiterates seem to be speaking on behlaf of the educated. Is the news being reported for the sensationalism ... because the death threats etcs make for a slow news day?
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 04:43:12 PM »
To the Pope :

In the first place the Pope has no authority to talk about Islam being associated with violence. Not even indirectly. The Roman Catholic church is directly responsible for some of the most atrocious acts in human history. Right or wrong, hush yuh mout and stay far far away from that issue.

To the Muslims

Every 2 minutes dem protesting and burning bobolies. It is clear to me that there are groups of people in the muslim world that seem hell bent on being oppositional to the west and will nitpick at any and everything to justify their behaviour. Islam has a bad name now and some of them aren't helping the situation.

On one hand I agree with Chirac in saying that these are political entities that use islam to mobilize support and justify their cause. On the other hand it becomes difficult to defend your religion when 37% (quoted on BBC) of British Muslims believe the terrorist attacks in Britain last year were not unjustifiable. Virtually all of Pakistan supports Osama.  Western born muslims are now being recruited.......steups. All these facts paint an ugly picture of islam.

Thank God living in Trinidad has exposed me to a wide range of people. So I know that the religion is essentially peaceful. But these people under real pressure. The outside world and those rogue elements within. What I think is the voice of "peace"- the moderate voice of Islam needs to be louder. It can't be luke warm resistence. I know the media has a role to play in all of this but I'm sure if there were mass rallies against extremism in the islamic world we'd see it on CNN. Until that time the negative image will continue to pervade their existence.

Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 04:48:13 PM »
I usually do not read the news but I took the time to read up on this, and I did the painfully teadious taks of reading the entire text of the speeck the pope made. I have come to one conclusion. "thers people"(according to Cana) have to be illiterate. The Pope made no statement relating to Muslims and violence.....He made a "QUOTE"
"These people" are just to uneducated to understand the difference.

If it was that he really said something that was wrong then every section of the Muslim Community would be outraged. Obviously the ones that are not outraged are the educated ones.

I now remember why I don't read the news.

thanks for that insight ...

problem is dat these illiterates seem to be speaking on behlaf of the educated. Is the news being reported for the sensationalism ... because the death threats etcs make for a slow news day?
It  is really depressing...the way the world is going. But at the end of the day everybody looking for power and using any means to get it and keep it.... If it means causing a riot to ensure you maintain power then that is what they are going to do.

Somebody should tell these poor souls that the leaders don't die in the strugle...they do, fighiting to keep them in power.

All they are doing is creating a cause to keep the cycle going.

Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2006, 05:00:53 PM »
Jah Gol did you read the speech ??

If you did then you are putting yourself in the group if Illiterates that took what he said out of context.
If you did not then you are not helping by addressing the Pope on this issue. You are just doing what everyone else is doing....taking the word of the Media

At first I felt the same way....until I read the speech

Offline Organic

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2006, 05:29:46 PM »
Jah Gol did you read the speech ??

If you did then you are putting yourself in the group if Illiterates that took what he said out of context.
If you did not then you are not helping by addressing the Pope on this issue. You are just doing what everyone else is doing....taking the word of the Media

At first I felt the same way....until I read the speech
that is so true rastaman.
but u know whats the most ironic thign..even if dais what de man said...then all de calls for voilence .the murder of the nun who has been helping poor muslims her whole life..jus confirms the man statement.
No we eh violent. hwo dear u say dat. bet i kill yuh mudder so and so for callign meh dat
sigh
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Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2006, 05:38:33 PM »
Jah Gol did you read the speech ??

If you did then you are putting yourself in the group if Illiterates that took what he said out of context.
If you did not then you are not helping by addressing the Pope on this issue. You are just doing what everyone else is doing....taking the word of the Media

At first I felt the same way....until I read the speech
that is so true rastaman.
but u know whats the most ironic thign..even if dais what de man said...then all de calls for voilence .the murder of the nun who has been helping poor muslims her whole life..jus confirms the man statement.
No we eh violent. hwo dear u say dat. bet i kill yuh mudder so and so for callign meh dat
sigh
Yes and it is sad. And it is all happening for one reason......somebody couldn't read.

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2006, 05:47:26 PM »
No I didn't read the speech. But ...

"The Pope had referred to criticism of the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who said everything the Prophet brought was evil "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.""
 
I'm not trying to be facetious, is this statement inaccurate ? I'll read the speech while you respond.

Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2006, 05:53:26 PM »
I will admit though.....the shit was hard to read....The man was using a lot of high high language....but then again he was lecturing at a University so is Scholars he was talking to.



Ignorance justifies nothing
 
In a court of law Ignorance is no defence( I think ;D )

Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2006, 05:56:50 PM »
No I didn't read the speech. But ...

"The Pope had referred to criticism of the Prophet Mohammad by 14th century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus, who said everything the Prophet brought was evil "such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.""
 
I'm not trying to be facetious, is this statement inaccurate ? I'll read the speech while you respond.

That is the problem.....that is not even a direct quote.
That is just the media giving their interpretation.....They using words like "referred to" and "such as"


Oh ad as for reading the speech....He make Alberta Trini's post look like kindergarden stuff  ;D... good luck
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 05:58:38 PM by Rastaman »

Offline Jefferz

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2006, 06:15:16 PM »
hahha here are some funny points...


why are we givin the Pope such a hard time...

look... the man knows about violence... he was a former Hitler Youth for f**ks sake!

and then the Muslims are even better!! oh yes! they are the brunt off the laughter!


"what... you call us violent!? no we are not! that is very offensive! we must kill you!"
since ah born or at least circa Copa Caribe

Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2006, 06:20:48 PM »
hahha here are some funny points...


why are we givin the Pope such a hard time...

look... the man knows about violence... he was a former Hitler Youth for f**ks sake!

and then the Muslims are even better!! oh yes! they are the brunt off the laughter!


"what... you call us violent!? no we are not! that is very offensive! we must kill you!"
A pitty every couldn't look at the lighter side of it. Thank God we are Trinis  :wavetowel: wine a jam for everything.

Offline Touches

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2006, 06:34:10 PM »
Excuse me esteemed posters....Google ent wukking properly for me.

Can one of you provide me with a link or cut and paste this speech so I can read it and discern for myself what the uproar is about.


Thanks,

The eternal student

Touches


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Offline Tallman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2006, 06:37:59 PM »
Excuse me esteemed posters....Google ent wukking properly for me.

Can one of you provide me with a link or cut and paste this speech so I can read it and discern for myself what the uproar is about.

Pope's speech at University of Regensburg
The Conquering Lion of Judah shall break every chain.

Offline Touches

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2006, 06:47:28 PM »
Thanks tallest... ;D


But even before I read this...yuh cyar vex with anybody if they feel offended.

Thats why yuh must stay far away from politics and religion.


A for apple, B for Bat, C for yuhself!

Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2006, 06:50:35 PM »
I just read a bit of the text. He sounds more like a scholar than a Pope. He references almost everything he says.  ;D

I think the reference is used to discredit conversion by violence and religious association with violence across the board. It is a bit suspicious that he would use a quote that criticised Mohammed though. Given the muslim record with the cartoons this could easily be considered an insult to them. It goes back to the point I was making about muslims nitpicking at things said and done in the West.

In the first place the Pope has no authority to talk about Islam being associated with violence. Not even indirectly.

I withdraw my statement with a caveat. The pope uses a the quote to criticise the use of violence by religions generally. I don't think he was trying to attack Islam. I think the mistake is made when he uses one quote dealing with a single religion to base that part of the his arguement.In this case the indirect criticism deals with a religion that has been adversarial to Christianity for while now. It could be skewed by the mischievous to be an attack on Islam. But I withdraw the statement nonetheless.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 06:53:52 PM by Jah Gol »

Offline Organic

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2006, 07:04:49 PM »
I just read a bit of the text. He sounds more like a scholar than a Pope. He references almost everything he says.  ;D

I think the reference is used to discredit conversion by violence and religious association with violence across the board. It is a bit suspicious that he would use a quote that criticised Mohammed though. Given the muslim record with the cartoons this could easily be considered an insult to them. It goes back to the point I was making about muslims nitpicking at things said and done in the West.

In the first place the Pope has no authority to talk about Islam being associated with violence. Not even indirectly.

I withdraw my statement with a caveat. The pope uses a the quote to criticise the use of violence by religions generally. I don't think he was trying to attack Islam. I think the mistake is made when he uses one quote dealing with a single religion to base that part of the his arguement.In this case the indirect criticism deals with a religion that has been adversarial to Christianity for while now. It could be skewed by the mischievous to be an attack on Islam. But I withdraw the statement nonetheless.

a few thigns about that statement


1. which religion hasnt been adversarial( not by doctrine mind u but by its leadershiip) to another.  save buddhism and or bahai's. All the major religions are guilty of  fighting down another.
2. Chritianity to eb specific historically just as bad as islam if u using violoence as one of its attributes.
 remember the crusades were statred by the catholic church eh.

 Even if it hasnt openly advocated violence in recent hisroty it surely has encouraged, fostered it even, by its blatant connivance.in time memorial.remeber the holocost. catholics were killing jews in abundance...ppl jus say it germans most of those gemrans were catholic. so y not say crhistians were killing jews ?

jus saying eh..lol....
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Offline Jah Gol

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2006, 07:11:39 PM »
I just read a bit of the text. He sounds more like a scholar than a Pope. He references almost everything he says.  ;D

I think the reference is used to discredit conversion by violence and religious association with violence across the board. It is a bit suspicious that he would use a quote that criticised Mohammed though. Given the muslim record with the cartoons this could easily be considered an insult to them. It goes back to the point I was making about muslims nitpicking at things said and done in the West.

In the first place the Pope has no authority to talk about Islam being associated with violence. Not even indirectly.

I withdraw my statement with a caveat. The pope uses a the quote to criticise the use of violence by religions generally. I don't think he was trying to attack Islam. I think the mistake is made when he uses one quote dealing with a single religion to base that part of the his arguement.In this case the indirect criticism deals with a religion that has been adversarial to Christianity for while now. It could be skewed by the mischievous to be an attack on Islam. But I withdraw the statement nonetheless.

a few thigns about that statement


1. which religion hasnt been adversarial( not by doctrine mind u but by its leadershiip) to another.  save buddhism and or bahai's. All the major religions are guilty of  fighting down another.
2. Chritianity to eb specific historically just as bad as islam if u using violoence as one of its attributes.
 remember the crusades were statred by the catholic church eh.

 Even if it hasnt openly advocated violence in recent hisroty it surely has encouraged, fostered it even, by its blatant connivance.in time memorial.remeber the holocost. catholics were killing jews in abundance...ppl jus say it germans most of those gemrans were catholic. so y not say crhistians were killing jews ?

jus saying eh..lol....
Agreed

Offline TriniCana

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2006, 07:15:20 PM »
ah listen to dey Pope speech (2 line of dey quote) via ah translator dey other day
ah read it via Tallman

my humble opinion is... again I will say it was just a quote drawing reference to what is happen now....which by far is dey truth right ?

But for future reference folks and dey pope included, doh use Dey God, Dey Religion and violence in dey same sentence. Jus watch it on TV.

Hushdie still alive somewhere and still writing book right ???

anyways like everything else, dis go die ah sudden death...and we will take our attention back to the War and dem suicide murderers and dem :-\

Offline Organic

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2006, 07:23:35 PM »
ah listen to dey Pope speech (2 line of dey quote) via ah translator dey other day
ah read it via Tallman

my humble opinion is... again I will say it was just a quote drawing reference to what is happen now....which by far is dey truth right ?

But for future reference folks and dey pope included, doh use Dey God, Dey Religion and violence in dey same sentence. Jus watch it on TV.

Hushdie still alive somewhere and still writing book right ???

anyways like everything else, dis go die ah sudden death...and we will take our attention back to the War and dem suicide murderers and dem :-\
think he still living in exile. and yes he still writing. no one eh paying him much mind fuh now. ppl shoulda relaise long time is not to say nuttin to dem ppl bout they religion in dem ppl i mean de fundamentalist eh my islamic bros and sis.(cyah afford for now one put no jihad on my lil black ass things hard as it is and i liek to fete). any ways salman is a muslim, so if thye could do thier own that..what allyuht hink will come allyuh kiss meh as sunbelivers way eh... as bunji does say FIREEE
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 07:25:29 PM by Organic »
Perhaps the epitome of a Trinidadian is the child in the third row class with a dark skin and crinkly plaits who looks at you out of decidedly Chinese eyes and announces herself as Jacqueline Maharaj.- Merle Hodge

Offline ndookie

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2006, 07:50:14 PM »
These are political entities which use "extremist islam" fundamentals to mobilise support. Someone mentioned that eariler , I'm just quoting again lol

What alot of people fail to notice is that Islam in Iraq is not necessarily Islam in lets say .. Trinidad.

When you hear some of the things that people in Iraq call Islam , it really hits you , especially when you know the basic pillars of the religion. How could people stray so far from the book , only God knows. The political entities in Iraq are shi'ite muslims , which , in iraq , are known to have a fair dislike for the western countries. Any chance they get , they'll turn something into a big brawl , threating to kill everyone , etc , etc. What happened to Saudi Arabia ? Saudi Arabia is the mainland of Islam in the world , but still people take Iraq to be the ideas of the entire world..But its nice to see intelligent people in these forums.

I also reccomend that people check up their definition of Jihad , because the common association is that it is only something of blood and physical war.

Nigel Dookie.
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Offline Rastaman

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Re: Militants vow war, Vatican tries to calm Pope row
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2006, 08:03:14 PM »
People just to add to the whole argument

Just saw part of a documentry on the "End Timers". What is this world realy comming to. These guys living their life gearing to the end of time. One of their belifes is that the Temple of Solomon has to be rebuilt in Jereuselem before Christ can return to end the world.......

Guess where they want to rebuild the Temple.......right on one of the most Sacred Muslim spots in the world......One man named Solomon have a folowing trying to get the Muslims removed from the Mosque that now stands on the spot in Jeresulem. Home boy was on his way with a truck load of foundation stones to drop them on the spot to start the building...... Luckly the police finally decided to stopped him half way there.

So what you think would have happened if he was allowed to get close to the Mosque ??

Now these "End Timers" are made up of Christians and Jews so I guess in this case it is like the shoe is on the other foot. Did a quick Google search and I see there was something on them in the US on Channel 3 some time ago.





And we worring about Panday and Manning.

 

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