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Author Topic: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?  (Read 7756 times)

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truetrini

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Offline ribbit

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2006, 07:54:21 PM »
about the idea of moral citizenship:

immigrants to canada have to take a citizenship test whereas native-born canadians do not have to take any kind of citizenship test.

alot of these native-born canadians doing everything they can to cheat the tax system that is supposed to be for the benefit of all canadians. even paul martin self flying his CSL ships under a different flag to avoid taxes.

it seems there's a bit of a double standard going on. i agree that there is a moral component of citizenship and certainly some of the evacuees might have failed this test. but maybe the evacuees (and new immigrants to canada) aren't the only ones that should be subject to such a moral test.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2006, 10:35:56 PM »
http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk06122006.html
staying orf topic here....

aye man that article reminds me of de time dat the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma geh bomb and i was watching CNN live and day come right out and say that it was a terrorist (hinting towards muslim) attack. come to find out is a white boy who is a militia member...dem miltitias ent easy oui..
you want to confirm if dem is private companies in Iraq now.
like Blackwater
« Last Edit: September 24, 2006, 10:46:07 PM by RedHowler »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
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Offline pecan

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2006, 06:10:52 AM »
When I posted this topic, I indicated I had mixed feeling ....

I have readthe replies and have not come to a somewhat reasoned conclusion.

The real issue is not dual citienzship ... it is one of moral allegiance.

Dual or single citienship ..it doh matter ...what matters is whether you give back tou your county(tries).

I think about these words from the inaugural address of President John F. Kennedy, delivered in 1961.

Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country


I have no issue with anyone provided they not only taking and do give back to their community, province, state, county, country ect.  How do you do that?  taxes, charity, volunteer, donate time, help yuh neighbour.

But when I see able-body  ppl taking, taking, taking and never giving ... >:( >:(

As far as the Cd/Leb who went back, I belive that the statisatics i posted are valid ..i.e 40,000 tyo 45,000 cdn/leb living in Lebanon, 15,000 evacuated and 7,000 already gone back .... I cant help but conclude that asome of them are in the "take, take, take" category.  Prove me wrong ...maybe many do give, but i eh see any evidence of dat.

Same applies for single citizenhip ppl who doh gave any thought to the country dat they live in.
 
 
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truetrini

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2006, 06:31:00 AM »
Pecan, it transcends even moral allegiance.

It is the Press causing hate and sicontent simply because of profiling and racism..subtle though it may be.

So 7000 have returned....what of the other 8,000?

They too were lumped unceremoniously by a press hell bent on creating an atmosphere of fear and discontent!

Who is to say what the ages of these returness are.

Are they past retirement age?  Are they back home taking care of family?  What have they contributed to canadian society?

Do they have family members still working/studying/contributing to canada?

I guarantee you if you look at those making the most noise about this issue non-issue really, they are of the conservative nature.

canada is fast becoming like the US with its sub culture of fear.

Look for more murders by gun and crime to escalate as wellas incidences of racial tension in the land of the Maple Leaf!

Offline Jumbie

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2006, 07:01:52 AM »
From many of the interviews I saw during this crisis...

the families here were saying that the ones that were in Leb (can citz) were there on holiday and/or visiting relatives.

The ones that did get out.. they too mentioned that they were there on holiday and visiting family etc.

Bear in mind that these are just the ones I saw being interviewed on TV.

Makes me wonder if the press in US, Europe and other countries who had citizens in leb, did they speak about the dual citizenship issue? After-all, they did get their citizens out at the expense of their tax payers.




Offline grskywalker

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2006, 09:03:17 AM »
Well we could talk till we blue in we face, I know as was mentioned earlier, US does not recognise our "dual citizenship" If you go to the INS website, we are not listed as one of the countries that qualify and you can thank the  high crime, drug traffic and Abu Bakr for that.

I paying taxes to Uncle Sam for a long time now, so is time I reap some of them benefits. In all honesty I feel Trinis want this DUAL thing in place more for sentimental reasons than practical, becuase you would still be required by the US government to file your taxes as long as youh hold a US passport, even though you were not in the country

truetrini

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2006, 05:35:57 AM »
Pecan and trinicana..see how BIG country does treat they citizens?  And dey pets too!

Pets orphaned by Lebanon war to come to U.S.
300 homeless dogs and cats to be airlifted out of Beirut for adoption

• Rescuing canine victims of war
Sept. 24: From Lebanon, there is good news about a group of innocent victims of the recent war - stray dogs. NBC's Jim Maceda reports.
Nightly News
 
 

 Updated: 10:21 a.m. ET Sept 25, 2006
BEIRUT, Lebanon - They endured a summer of war, but now relief is coming for Lebanon’s little known victims — cats and dogs abandoned when their owners fled the country during the early days of fighting between Israel and Hezbollah.

Some 300 of the former pets are being flown to the United States on Monday for adoption.

For Mona Khoury, who has helped take care of the animals the past few weeks, the rescue operation is tinged with sadness.

“I’ve grown attached to them and I’m very, very sad that they’re leaving. But I know they’ll be in good hands and have a better life there,” she said.

Khoury is co-founder of Beirut for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, which is working on the project with the American animal society Best Friends.

BETA rounded up many of the pets left behind when tens of thousands of foreigners and Lebanese with foreign passports evacuated the country in July and August.

The U.S. Embassy and others told the evacuees that pets would not be allowed on the ships and helicopters carrying them to safety, and many families had to abandon their animals or leave them with friends who later got rid of them.

'Largest animal airlift'
Michael Mountain, president of the Utah-based Best Friends, which describes itself as America’s largest refuge for abused and abandoned pets, said in a phone interview that about 300 of the homeless pets would be put on a special cargo plane Monday and flown to the United States

“This is certainly the largest animal airlift operation we’ve ever done overseas,” he said.

There will be two refueling stops — one in Manchester, England, and another at New York’s JFK Airport — before arriving in Las Vegas, where the orphans will be put on Best Friends trucks for a 3˝-hour ride to temporary housing at the Best Friends Animal Sanctuary in Kanab, Utah.

“Once there, the pets will undergo a final health and behavior evaluation before they’re off to their new, permanent homes,” Mountain said. “We’ve already had a lot of offers to adopt these cats and dogs.”

He said the operation is costing around $250,000, most of it from donations raised by animal activists.

Best Friends arranged a similar operation just a year ago in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when it moved more than 6,000 animals out of the disaster zone to new homes.

The society has also been assisting animal groups in Israel, where people also had to evacuate their homes in the north without their pets during the recent war.

But the major crisis for animals has been in Lebanon.

On July 12, at the start of what proved to be a 34-day war, BETA had to move dogs and cats from a shelter near a Hezbollah stronghold in Beirut that was repeatedly pounded by Israeli warplanes. The animals were taken to an abandoned pig farm in Monteverde in the hills. Other BETA shelters were also damaged.

Hundreds of adoption offers
At the height of the war, the abandoned animals were featured on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” after which adoption offers from the U.S. “started coming down on us by the hundreds,” Khoury said.

Jutta Sold, a 36-year-old German animal activist who is also a BETA volunteer, said the airlift is “a very good thing.”

“It’s sad for me. I knew some of these dogs when they were just puppies, but I’m very hopeful that their chances for adoption are much better over there,” said Sold, who has adopted one of the dogs herself.

She said Lebanese don’t have much connection with animals. “The attitude here is very different from Europe or the United States. A lot of people are afraid of animals, they kick them around.”

Sold also noted there are no laws to protect animals, and said chances of them being adopted are much higher in the West.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved

Offline pecan

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2006, 06:13:45 AM »
BETA, People for the Ethical Treament of Animal etc. etc and Pamela ANderson

As humans we have a duty for the welfare of our world ...but BETA and PETA, imo, is take it too far.

They airlifted animals across the Atlantic Ocean from a war torn country!

Dat taking it too far .... those animal go have to lear the language and may be subject to discrimations by the US animal ... taking away food, walk time, owners ...
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Offline Dutty

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2006, 06:29:31 AM »
BETA, People for the Ethical Treament of Animal etc. etc and Pamela ANderson

As humans we have a duty for the welfare of our world ...but BETA and PETA, imo, is take it too far.

They airlifted animals across the Atlantic Ocean from a war torn country!

Dat taking it too far .... those animal go have to lear the language and may be subject to discrimations by the US animal ... taking away food, walk time, owners ...


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Offline cocoapanyol

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2006, 06:41:06 AM »
Well dis is ah interesting topic...so leh me get een on de action

I have dual citizenship and when I travel, I travel wid meh Canadian passport.  Why?  First, is de country ah living, paying taxes and voting.  So although ah go die ah Trini tuh de bone, in meh day tuh day living, ah is ah Canadian.  Plus Ah doh have no trouble going through no customs anywhere.

Ah go tell yuh honestly, if war break out between Canada and Trinidad, ah go be in a quandry eh but since de chance ah dat happening is as good as me turning white tomorrow morning, ah not really worrying bout having tuh choose.  That aside, if ah in trouble anywhere in de world, ah hope either Canada or Trinidad go come an rescue meh arse one way or de odder. Say what you want bout de US government (and ah doh usually have much good tuh say bout dem), when it come tuh dey citizens, dey does act and den akse questions later.  Dey doh mess around wid de people.

As fuh de argument bout getting Canadian citizens out of other countries in times of trouble, it seems to me that the focus is on people who hold citizenship of their country of birth or their parents and of Canada/US.  What about Canadians who are born, raised and bred in Canada, move to another country and then adopt citizenhip at that country while still maintaining Canadian citizenship?  Do they loose that link?  Leave dem dey?  Dey pay taxes too fuh years. So what bout dat.  I paying taxes here 18 years now.  So what if I go back Trini tomorrow and den de US invade Trini.  meh 18 years eh worth nuttin dat dey cyar sen ah Maple Leaf ship and pluck meh tuh safety?  

This argument to me is raised to draw negative attention to immigrants and not to citizenhip and all that it offers.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms affords Canadians the right of movement. Which means we can go anywhere in the world we want, whenever we want, stay as long as want (wid de permission ah de odder country of course) and are welcomed back when we decide to return.  It's plain and simple.  To change that would not only affect immigrants obtaining Canadian citizenship but also born Canadians as well.

Someone made a comment about coming to Canada and getting free medical care.  Not ALL Canadian provinces offer free medical care. Ontario does, Alberta does not as an example.  You have to pay for health care in Alberta.  True, it's not expensive and it's still subsidized but you have to RESIDE in the province to get it.  As with Ontario, you also have to RESIDE in Ontario to get it. Once you leave Canada or the province of Ontario for more than 90 days, you LOOSE health care and you have to re-apply and wait three months on return to the province for it to kick in again.  So it's not as simple as coming to Canada and everything free.  All health care in Canada is NOT free.  That is an unfortunate mistake many people have.

So daise meh 2 cents
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Offline pecan

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Re: Should we be allowed to hold dual citizenship?
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2006, 01:57:03 PM »
Ok everybody who gave their 2 cents worth .. thank you ...

I no longer have mixed feels about Dual Citizenship ..

I now think it will benefit both countries .... some people will take advantage of it .... but I think at the end of the day, the benefits will outweight the costs and these costs are inherent in any civlized society.

Is like the cost of keeping extreme criminals in jail for life (instead of exucuting dem) ... that is a cost a civilized country have to bear ....  but dat is a nother debate all together ::)

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

 

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