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Author Topic: Clyde Leon Thread  (Read 28982 times)

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Offline sub1

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2008, 06:42:03 PM »

With a fit whitley and collin samuel in reserve (I have purposely left out the magician simply becz I have him on the sidelines callin the shots) do you all realise that we have a pretty strong midfield. I would dare say one of the strongest in concacaf. If only we had a real TD instead of that joker we could have been leading the group now.

Yes selector ...pull up ! It's comments like these that cause huge disappointments later if left unchallenged. T&T has  one of the strongest midfield in Concacaf ? ..you came up with this all by yourself ? ...after only three games in a group in Concacaf ? ...you considered the other group in your analysis ? ..you have seen the USA, Mexico, Honduras  and Costa Rica ???
...we are so good that a 40 year old could walk een in dat star studded midfield just so ?
These players you speak off have demonstrated this capability against .............??????
I must be missing a lot here ..maybe you coiuld help me on this  ???
[/quote]


Jai John I have read many of your posts and as such I realised that you, among others would not have understood what I wrote. Go read it again young man and see if you can get the meat of the matter. The highlighted part is 1) correct in the first part. As for the second part I would have to know whether you left school before or after common entrance. I take it its before, hence the lack of comprehensive ability. So my friend, start off by re-reading my post and give me the gist of it.

Offline weary1969

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2008, 06:44:57 PM »
Whitley is ah playmaker d defencive mid tink eh he game
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Offline kingman

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2008, 07:45:30 PM »
Palos, big respect on your critique. I think all your observations could not be said any better.

All other men who saying that Telesford wild, I beg to differ. I just think he is inexperience  and that may account for some of his actions. He works hard and fights the game and I love that. As Palos said, his position is poor hence the reason he is always on the ground. But I rather see that,that a bunch of players not even trying.

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Offline Small Magician aka Wazza

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2008, 08:01:38 PM »
he could sit in the middle of the bench...thats his role


a lil harsh yes...but he's no Birchall...we've seen how he cant handle the big games .... vs USA he was poor and vs Guatemala he was ok

Offline fatimarima

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2008, 08:53:08 PM »
Help mih people. Is Clyde Leon a ball winner, a playmaker, a defensive or attacking midfielder. From the bits I've seen of him ah cyah make out what he does to deserve being in de midfield and to keep being picked.
This is what people get confused about.  This single specific role people like to assign to players is the down fall of our football.  A player has to be all of the above, not just one. If Clyde Leon is on the field he should be a playmaker/ball winner/defensive player/attacking player. If a player is starting that should mean that his overall ability and desire to perform these roles consistently and competently is greater than a player who is not starting.  A player may get specific instuctions or assignments but the overall role always includes both ball wining and attacking /playmaking.  I am tired of playing on teams where guys dont defend because they consider themselves as "an attackin midfielder". or the reverse case where guys dont move forward and attack because they are "defensive midfielders".  If people want to win, then the whole team has to make up their minds to attack and defend as a team. Everybody has to transition from defense to attack and also from attack to defense.  The single role crap cyah work at all.

Offline arrow

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2008, 10:44:03 PM »
Daniel is no wide midfielder.  Yes he's playing there currently but that really because we have no better options for the left and he's a left footer.  This has been going on for some time, we've used men like Theobald, Whitely, Spann, Rahim etc. in the wide midfield positions but noone would really argue they are wide midfielders.

Offline palos

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2008, 11:58:06 PM »
Daniel is no wide midfielder.  Yes he's playing there currently but that really because we have no better options for the left and he's a left footer.  This has been going on for some time, we've used men like Theobald, Whitely, Spann, Rahim etc. in the wide midfield positions but noone would really argue they are wide midfielders.

Ok.  So Daniel is no wide midfielder.  He himself prefers to play central midfield.  But as you say, we weak on de left side and he's a natural left footer.  We've played 3 games and scored 4 goals in this phase of WCQ thus far.  3 of the goals have been scored by Daniel.  He has played wide midfield in those 3 games.  Where do you propose he play in our 4th? 

A footballer supposed to play wherever his team needs him.  In my opinion, yuh cyah argue with success unless yuh doh think Daniel's performances have not been successful.
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Offline behind-de-bridge

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2008, 12:02:42 AM »
Help mih people. Is Clyde Leon a ball winner, a playmaker, a defensive or attacking midfielder. From the bits I've seen of him ah cyah make out what he does to deserve being in de midfield and to keep being picked.
This is what people get confused about.  This single specific role people like to assign to players is the down fall of our football.  A player has to be all of the above, not just one. If Clyde Leon is on the field he should be a playmaker/ball winner/defensive player/attacking player. If a player is starting that should mean that his overall ability and desire to perform these roles consistently and competently is greater than a player who is not starting.  A player may get specific instuctions or assignments but the overall role always includes both ball wining and attacking /playmaking.  I am tired of playing on teams where guys dont defend because they consider themselves as "an attackin midfielder". or the reverse case where guys dont move forward and attack because they are "defensive midfielders".  If people want to win, then the whole team has to make up their minds to attack and defend as a team. Everybody has to transition from defense to attack and also from attack to defense.  The single role crap cyah work at all.

Breds, I've played and watch enough footie to know that being assigned a role on de team does not mean that is all you do. Have'nt you see goalies take free kicks and score goals etc? Having said that if you have 3 def minded midfield players, plus 4 defenders, you are practically defending with 7 men behind the ball. You might get a few 'honourable' 0-0 draws, but you are not going to win many games like that.

Offline jai john

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2008, 05:31:30 AM »

With a fit whitley and collin samuel in reserve (I have purposely left out the magician simply becz I have him on the sidelines callin the shots) do you all realise that we have a pretty strong midfield. I would dare say one of the strongest in concacaf. If only we had a real TD instead of that joker we could have been leading the group now.

Yes selector ...pull up ! It's comments like these that cause huge disappointments later if left unchallenged. T&T has  one of the strongest midfield in Concacaf ? ..you came up with this all by yourself ? ...after only three games in a group in Concacaf ? ...you considered the other group in your analysis ? ..you have seen the USA, Mexico, Honduras  and Costa Rica ???
...we are so good that a 40 year old could walk een in dat star studded midfield just so ?
These players you speak off have demonstrated this capability against .............??????
I must be missing a lot here ..maybe you coiuld help me on this  ???


Jai John I have read many of your posts and as such I realised that you, among others would not have understood what I wrote. Go read it again young man and see if you can get the meat of the matter. The highlighted part is 1) correct in the first part. As for the second part I would have to know whether you left school before or after common entrance. I take it its before, hence the lack of comprehensive ability. So my friend, start off by re-reading my post and give me the gist of it.
[/quote]

Nope ! tried that ...still cant make sense of it. I guess if common entrance is the standard to understand this article then i must be overlooking something . Please break it down for those of us who did not pass common entrance ...
the part that gets me is ... " I would dare say one of the strongest in Concacaf " ... help me with dis nah ...

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2008, 07:53:23 AM »
Help mih people. Is Clyde Leon a ball winner, a playmaker, a defensive or attacking midfielder. From the bits I've seen of him ah cyah make out what he does to deserve being in de midfield and to keep being picked.
This is what people get confused about.  This single specific role people like to assign to players is the down fall of our football.  A player has to be all of the above, not just one. If Clyde Leon is on the field he should be a playmaker/ball winner/defensive player/attacking player. If a player is starting that should mean that his overall ability and desire to perform these roles consistently and competently is greater than a player who is not starting.  A player may get specific instuctions or assignments but the overall role always includes both ball wining and attacking /playmaking.  I am tired of playing on teams where guys dont defend because they consider themselves as "an attackin midfielder". or the reverse case where guys dont move forward and attack because they are "defensive midfielders".  If people want to win, then the whole team has to make up their minds to attack and defend as a team. Everybody has to transition from defense to attack and also from attack to defense.  The single role crap cyah work at all.

True, there is a distribution of capabilities/roles expected from ALL players, but within this distriubution, it leans quite heavily to one of these capabilities/roles specific to position.  Attacking midfielders do have to defend, but the lion share of creativity within the midfield falls on their shoulders, likewise wing backs attack and play roles in this regard (a la Roberto Carlos and others), but closing down wing plays and being part of that defensive set up is their main role.  General concept applies to any position on the field, of course with some variations w/formation....
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Offline Storeboy

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2008, 08:08:30 AM »
I hope that I am seeing this Latapy call up as it should be.  I think too much is being made of his on field contribution.  I think that his call up is primarily to set him up to take over from Maturana by the end of this year, if hopefully we make the hex.  I think that after these two games against Guatemala and the USA, if we can pull off two wins, we will be seeing the team controlled by Latapy and Yorke.  Both will be playing less and less and having more influence in coaching, selection, and technical decisions.  At least I hope so.   God help us!
Never, never, ever give up! Go T&T Warriors!

Offline fatimarima

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2008, 09:43:55 AM »
Help mih people. Is Clyde Leon a ball winner, a playmaker, a defensive or attacking midfielder. From the bits I've seen of him ah cyah make out what he does to deserve being in de midfield and to keep being picked.
This is what people get confused about.  This single specific role people like to assign to players is the down fall of our football.  A player has to be all of the above, not just one. If Clyde Leon is on the field he should be a playmaker/ball winner/defensive player/attacking player. If a player is starting that should mean that his overall ability and desire to perform these roles consistently and competently is greater than a player who is not starting.  A player may get specific instuctions or assignments but the overall role always includes both ball wining and attacking /playmaking.  I am tired of playing on teams where guys dont defend because they consider themselves as "an attackin midfielder". or the reverse case where guys dont move forward and attack because they are "defensive midfielders".  If people want to win, then the whole team has to make up their minds to attack and defend as a team. Everybody has to transition from defense to attack and also from attack to defense.  The single role crap cyah work at all.

Breds, I've played and watch enough footie to know that being assigned a role on de team does not mean that is all you do. Have'nt you see goalies take free kicks and score goals etc? Having said that if you have 3 def minded midfield players, plus 4 defenders, you are practically defending with 7 men behind the ball. You might get a few 'honourable' 0-0 draws, but you are not going to win many games like that.

Not sure how your last two sentences relates to my post. You may need to read my post again.

Offline maxg

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2008, 09:52:59 AM »
So what about Oliver ?

Offline palos

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2008, 10:20:40 AM »
So what about Oliver ?
He sayin nutting as usual.  Jack puppet.  8)
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Offline maxg

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2008, 10:24:46 AM »
So what about Oliver ?
He sayin nutting as usual.  Jack puppet.  8)
Sorry, I meant Marvin Oliver.

Offline fatimarima

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2008, 10:40:33 AM »
Help mih people. Is Clyde Leon a ball winner, a playmaker, a defensive or attacking midfielder. From the bits I've seen of him ah cyah make out what he does to deserve being in de midfield and to keep being picked.
This is what people get confused about.  This single specific role people like to assign to players is the down fall of our football.  A player has to be all of the above, not just one. If Clyde Leon is on the field he should be a playmaker/ball winner/defensive player/attacking player. If a player is starting that should mean that his overall ability and desire to perform these roles consistently and competently is greater than a player who is not starting.  A player may get specific instuctions or assignments but the overall role always includes both ball wining and attacking /playmaking.  I am tired of playing on teams where guys dont defend because they consider themselves as "an attackin midfielder". or the reverse case where guys dont move forward and attack because they are "defensive midfielders".  If people want to win, then the whole team has to make up their minds to attack and defend as a team. Everybody has to transition from defense to attack and also from attack to defense.  The single role crap cyah work at all.

True, there is a distribution of capabilities/roles expected from ALL players, but within this distriubution, it leans quite heavily to one of these capabilities/roles specific to position.  Attacking midfielders do have to defend, but the lion share of creativity within the midfield falls on their shoulders, likewise wing backs attack and play roles in this regard (a la Roberto Carlos and others), but closing down wing plays and being part of that defensive set up is their main role.  General concept applies to any position on the field, of course with some variations w/formation....

"Attacking midfielder" and "defensive midfielder"  are just labels to me.   It's a viewers label based on a players percieved strength.  Its not an actual complete role. The lion share of creativity does not have to fall on a specific midfielder's shoulders if the capabilities of the entire midfield is balanced.  Its the same case for wining the ball.   Why shouldn't we encorage players to be just as good in both attack and defense? We should strive for excelence.  I have found that the attitude of " I will do most of the attacking and you handle the ball wining" causes an unnecessary imbalance, which makes both attacking and defending a more difficult task.  

Offline palos

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2008, 10:40:55 AM »
So what about Oliver ?
He sayin nutting as usual.  Jack puppet.  8)
Sorry, I meant Marvin Oliver.

Jes playin bro... ;D
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Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2008, 11:08:49 AM »
Help mih people. Is Clyde Leon a ball winner, a playmaker, a defensive or attacking midfielder. From the bits I've seen of him ah cyah make out what he does to deserve being in de midfield and to keep being picked.
This is what people get confused about.  This single specific role people like to assign to players is the down fall of our football.  A player has to be all of the above, not just one. If Clyde Leon is on the field he should be a playmaker/ball winner/defensive player/attacking player. If a player is starting that should mean that his overall ability and desire to perform these roles consistently and competently is greater than a player who is not starting.  A player may get specific instuctions or assignments but the overall role always includes both ball wining and attacking /playmaking.  I am tired of playing on teams where guys dont defend because they consider themselves as "an attackin midfielder". or the reverse case where guys dont move forward and attack because they are "defensive midfielders".  If people want to win, then the whole team has to make up their minds to attack and defend as a team. Everybody has to transition from defense to attack and also from attack to defense.  The single role crap cyah work at all.

True, there is a distribution of capabilities/roles expected from ALL players, but within this distriubution, it leans quite heavily to one of these capabilities/roles specific to position.  Attacking midfielders do have to defend, but the lion share of creativity within the midfield falls on their shoulders, likewise wing backs attack and play roles in this regard (a la Roberto Carlos and others), but closing down wing plays and being part of that defensive set up is their main role.  General concept applies to any position on the field, of course with some variations w/formation....

"Attacking midfielder" and "defensive midfielder"  are just labels to me.   It's a viewers label based on a players percieved strength.  Its not an actual complete role. The lion share of creativity does not have to fall on a specific midfielder's shoulders if the capabilities of the entire midfield is balanced.  Its the same case for wining the ball.   Why shouldn't we encorage players to be just as good in both attack and defense? We should strive for excelence.  I have found that the of causes an unnecessary imbalance, which makes both attacking and defending a more difficult task.  

Not sure I agree w/this as I see it as a coaches label, yes, we are all viewers on this forum (though some of course are coaches so no disrespect), but it's ok, we can agree to disagree, in a nutshell, I am saying there is a distribution and all have to contribute in all areas, but from an analytical viewpt. most players will be capable of contributing more in one area than another b/c of their honed (coached) and natural abilities -- the ideal is that we can all contribute equally in all of these areas, but pragmatically speaking, this does happen, so players are played in positions to their strengths (all things being equal: no injuries, opponent scouting etc).  These types of players that you describe are utility players and of course exist, but not every player is capable of performing at the highest level in every position on the field and in every aspect of the game.  I'll stick to TT for examples: Marvin Andrews has scored goals for TT, mainly w/his head, that does not mean his strengths are in the attacking 3rd as we all know, defending is his strength, hence he's one of our best sweepers in our lifetime.  Dwight in the twilight of his career has adjusted to be an individual w/strengths in the defensive 3rd still w/some skills in the attacking 3rd and scoring arenas, but his undeniable strength at the peak of his career was as a pointer.

Striving for excellence and contributing on any part of the pitch is a given (IMHO), at various positions on the pitch however, you are required to contribute more in one area than in another  -- that's my only pt.  Not disagreeing that players need to be well rounded and capable of contributing in any aspect of the game (ball winning, hustling, attacking, etc) which in fact they ought to do
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Offline fatimarima

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2008, 11:24:15 AM »
Yeah, all of what you said is true.  I was referring specifically to the midfield though.  The forward, midfield and defense are clearly defined positions with true roles.  My gripe was with the idea of separating midfielders in to specific roles of either "defensive or attacking".  I am saying that midfielders can and should be both.

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2008, 11:39:57 AM »
Yeah, all of what you said is true.  I was referring specifically to the midfield though.  The forward, midfield and defense are clearly defined positions with true roles.  My gripe was with the idea of separating midfielders in to specific roles of either "defensive or attacking".  I am saying that midfielders can and should be both.

Ahh, one of the joys of electronic communication!  Get you now, hmmm, can you name one professional midfield that functions like this?  Hard for me to come up w/one example, this sounds more like the Dutch concept which is more of an ideology to me than a pragmatic feasibility...
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Offline jai john

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2008, 11:45:51 AM »
Yeah, all of what you said is true.  I was referring specifically to the midfield though.  The forward, midfield and defense are clearly defined positions with true roles.  My gripe was with the idea of separating midfielders in to specific roles of either "defensive or attacking".  I am saying that midfielders can and should be both.

Ahh, one of the joys of electronic communication!  Get you now, hmmm, can you name one professional midfield that functions like this?  Hard for me to come up w/one example, this sounds more like the Dutch concept which is more of an ideology to me than a pragmatic feasibility...

To be fair there are examples of such players ..but they are in the minority. Their situation represents the ideal but I agree it is not very common. Eissien, Fabregas, Mascherano ( recent development ) Xavi, Senna etc. can be termed complete in this regard.
Our problem is that our players have not yet mastered either function so to expect them to do both is not  " pragmatically feasible " gosh allyuh fellas go kill meh wid dese big words yes !!

Offline fatimarima

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2008, 11:51:45 AM »
Yeah, all of what you said is true.  I was referring specifically to the midfield though.  The forward, midfield and defense are clearly defined positions with true roles.  My gripe was with the idea of separating midfielders in to specific roles of either "defensive or attacking".  I am saying that midfielders can and should be both.

Ahh, one of the joys of electronic communication!  Get you now, hmmm, can you name one professional midfield that functions like this?  Hard for me to come up w/one example, this sounds more like the Dutch concept which is more of an ideology to me than a pragmatic feasibility...

some examples

strike squad TT example- Kerry jamerson, (good offensive combo with latas but still a ball winer)
Gahna example -  Essien
German example- Lothar matheus....bruise and bullet
Greece midfield the year they win eurocup

Offline 100% Barataria

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #52 on: September 26, 2008, 02:05:51 PM »
Not to beat a dead horse, but apart from these, can you name more?  Essentially from a statistical viewpt., tough to come up w/the "complete" midfield based on this def., is the proof in the pudding?

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Offline fatimarima

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Re: What's Leon's role in de midfield?
« Reply #53 on: September 26, 2008, 06:24:57 PM »
Sure, there are lots of examples of guys who dont limit themselves to a single role when they play midfield.  Even Whitley during the WC qualifiers in the build up to WC 2006 was a ball winer and an ofensive threat in the midfield. Right now Yorke is also a ball winer and an offensive threat in our midfield.  I think Birchall plays that way as well. Its just a matter of getting the rest of the guys to adopt that attitude and play that way consistently.   You mentioned the Dutch before, and you are correct....Edgar Davids "the pit bull" as well as Clarence Seedorf, and Overmars played aggressive in both attack and defense while playing in the midfield.  Eve Latapy in his younger days did his share. He read the game so well that he was able to intercept passes, steal balls off oponents feet etc. He was so magnificent in attack that people overlooked and ignored the things that he did defensively.  In the past Carlos Edwards did good offensive and defensive work while in the midfield.  Its just a matter of getting all our midfielders to adopt this complete role consistently and together.

Offline christiano

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Clyde Leon ?
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2009, 08:52:21 PM »
Great talent ! is he injured ? Is he playing for W lately ??

Offline just cool

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Re: Clyde Leon ?
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2009, 09:54:00 PM »
Great talent ! is he injured ? Is he playing for W lately ??
Who dat shyte snake!! yuh eh see how much chances pancho give him like he's ah relative and the man just bummed every time. clyde leon needs tuh stay where he is, in the PFL.

BTW, trent noel took his place and rightfully so.
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Offline Tallman

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Re: Clyde Leon ?
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2009, 05:43:45 AM »
Great talent ! is he injured ? Is he playing for W lately ??
He had hernia surgery last month.
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Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: Clyde Leon ?
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2009, 09:45:12 AM »
Great talent ! is he injured ? Is he playing for W lately ??
Who dat shyte snake!! yuh eh see how much chances pancho give him like he's ah relative and the man just bummed every time. clyde leon needs tuh stay where he is, in the PFL.

BTW, trent noel took his place and rightfully so.

He eh dat bad :devil: but I did find Pacho stuck with him a bit too long while suffering Trent on the bench.  Now that Trent has cracked the lineup we can plainly see the difference in quality between the two.  Ah wouldn't say he's ah hong doh.

Offline just cool

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Re: Clyde Leon ?
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2009, 12:22:25 PM »
Great talent ! is he injured ? Is he playing for W lately ??
Who dat shyte snake!! yuh eh see how much chances pancho give him like he's ah relative and the man just bummed every time. clyde leon needs tuh stay where he is, in the PFL.

BTW, trent noel took his place and rightfully so.

He eh dat bad :devil: but I did find Pacho stuck with him a bit too long while suffering Trent on the bench.  Now that Trent has cracked the lineup we can plainly see the difference in quality between the two.  Ah wouldn't say he's ah hong doh.
Well then allow me tuh say it!
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Clyde Leon ?
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2009, 12:26:50 PM »
Great talent ! is he injured ? Is he playing for W lately ??
Who dat shyte snake!! yuh eh see how much chances pancho give him like he's ah relative and the man just bummed every time. clyde leon needs tuh stay where he is, in the PFL.

BTW, trent noel took his place and rightfully so.

He eh dat bad :devil: but I did find Pacho stuck with him a bit too long while suffering Trent on the bench.  Now that Trent has cracked the lineup we can plainly see the difference in quality between the two.  Ah wouldn't say he's ah hong doh.
Well then allow me tuh say it!

 :rotfl: all yuh good oui

Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

 

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