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Offline slates

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TnT Greatest Players
« on: May 17, 2005, 07:13:32 AM »

Man, I was pleasantly surprised to see Ian Clauzel listed among TnT's
greatest players. I was at the Mucurapo/John-D game cited in the article in
the Dread Dribbler. I saw Clauzel do things on the soccer field that I have
never seen anywhere else, and mind you, I lived in Germany for 3 years and
saw games at the highest level. I went to CIC and was in Form 1 & 2 in 77
and 78. I remember Clauzel was all over the Express and Guardian when he
hit the scene so I went to see him when Mucurapo played Tranquil on CIC
grounds. From then, I was mesmerized and did all I could to see every
Mucurapo game after that. Just the other day, I was telling another Trini
here, that Clauzel was certainly, the most entertaining, and in my biased
opinion, the best player ever to play in the Colleges League. Maybe that is
only because I saw him play, personally, on many occasions. I am glad to
know that Moose is alive and well.

Slates
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Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2005, 07:16:55 AM »
I share the sentiments that Clauzel was very good.  But has anyone seen Eric White in my opinion he was more deadly than Ian.

Offline Sando

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2005, 07:22:38 AM »
Did Ian Clauzel ever play for T&T ?

Eric White ? how come we never hear about him ? I've heard about Ian.

Offline doc

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2005, 07:22:53 AM »

Man, I was pleasantly surprised to see Ian Clauzel listed among TnT's
greatest players. I was at the Mucurapo/John-D game cited in the article in
the Dread Dribbler. I saw Clauzel do things on the soccer field that I have
never seen anywhere else, and mind you, I lived in Germany for 3 years and
saw games at the highest level. I went to CIC and was in Form 1 & 2 in 77
and 78. I remember Clauzel was all over the Express and Guardian when he
hit the scene so I went to see him when Mucurapo played Tranquil on CIC
grounds. From then, I was mesmerized and did all I could to see every
Mucurapo game after that. Just the other day, I was telling another Trini
here, that Clauzel was certainly, the most entertaining, and in my biased
opinion, the best player ever to play in the Colleges League. Maybe that is
only because I saw him play, personally, on many occasions. I am glad to
know that Moose is alive and well.

Slates

I was also present to see two defenders who made him look ordinary too  ... Veron Skinner and Anton Serrette.  ;D ;D
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Offline Star Child

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2005, 07:27:54 AM »
I was also present to see two defenders who made him look ordinary too  ... Veron Skinner and Anton Serrette.  ;D ;D

Doc, are U serious. ? was Veron that old.

Offline doc

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2005, 07:30:14 AM »

Doc, are U serious. ? was Veron that old.

They're a year or 2 younger that him

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Offline slates

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2005, 07:31:05 AM »
Yes, Clauzel did play for the U19 team. He played at a tournament in Honduras (I think). He was discriminated against because he refused to cut his dreads and was dropped for that reason only. That was a different time. And to the "ordinary" comment: 2 defenders???? I have seen defenders make Ronaldo look ordinary. Not comparing Clauzel to Ronaldo, but 1 game or 2 shouldn't define a player. Grated, Skinner was baad. Serrette too.
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Offline royal

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2005, 09:50:50 AM »
I played against Clauzel and indeed he was exciting,even has the same birthdate as Pele and played well against New York Cosmos against international stars on a Caribbean All Star team.But the man in my opinion who made Clauzel look even better was a midfielder they  callled Emerson Dubbision.This guy played for Trinidad against China while still going Mucurapo,but ASL helped destroy his career but keeping him on the bench all the time.

Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2005, 10:09:33 AM »
Did Ian Clauzel ever play for T&T ?

Eric White ? how come we never hear about him ? I've heard about Ian.

The fact that you never heard of him might be an indication of how limited our knowledge base is?  Ask Niza, Stewart Charles, Rona La etc or mostl the top defenders/players om that era about him.  He was Mucurapo top forward, Modnicks in the pro-League, cocorite United, Ball Giants in the West (Petit Valley, Infirmaty) and also played in the National team, just to name a few.

Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2005, 10:24:34 AM »
"Clauzel, elusive and unpredictable, was the marquee name in an exciting side in which his strike partner Eric While and midfielder Emmerson Dubisson wee also outstanding."


Offline palos

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2005, 10:59:11 AM »
Yuh know players NC.  Dem...along with "Tractor" Brelgrave and "Ole Man" brother Denzil White, were the key components of that team.

Clauzel was the star though.  He had the outrageous skills, the dreads (a rarity for most not just a schoolboy), and wasn't just a one dimensional player i.e. dribbling.  The goal he scored against John D in that intercol Final was one of the best I have seen from any local player.

My favourite player on that Mucurapo team was Emerson Dubisson though.  What a player!  Passer, vision, shot, dribble....he had it all.  Sad his life took an unfortunate turn.

That was an era of some serious footballers.  There was one team at that time that in terms of pure TALENT...could rival Mucurapo...that was John D:

Peter Loobie
Alan "Peru" Anderson (my personal nemesis)
Garfield De Silva
Courtney Pugh
John Castellano
Clayton Morris
Brian Haynes

John D was tough to beat.

   
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Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2005, 11:42:31 AM »
Yuh know players NC. Dem...along with "Tractor" Brelgrave and "Ole Man" brother Denzil White, were the key components of that team.



Palos, have you ever seen Dezil White play, if you did, I am sure you would agree he was the most complete player we ever produced.  Kicked the ball with both feet (inside and out), very effective dribbler and a great passer. And on Clauzel being the star, I think he deserves all that is being said, but his hairstyle I believe played a part in his popularity.  While that goal was great, I think Eric White was still a better forward to me (personal opinion).

Offline slates

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2005, 12:02:43 PM »
OK fellas, you get no argument that Emers, Old Man and Tractor were good players. I hear all de argument about Old Man making Clauzel better. Don't forget though, that the reverse is also true. All the media hype was around Clauzel and de dreads. Every defender on every team clued in on dat. So it is fair to say that the attention Clauzel got, made more space and more opportunities for Eric White et al. AND DESPITE DAT, DE DREAD STILL GOT HIS.

Dat was a nice John D squad too though. Pugh and Brian Haynes were trouble.
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Offline slates

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2005, 12:06:08 PM »
And... if memory serves me right, dat same year, Fatima, with Garnet Craig and de Corneal brothers (Allan and Anton) beat Mucurapo too.

But It was all about Ian "Moose" Clauzel!!!
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Offline palos

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2005, 12:13:15 PM »
In reply to NC

I have played against Denzil White....and Ole Man....and all a dem Cocorite Fellas.  Denzil was excellent but not the "most complete player we ever produce" in my opinion.  In my opinion, Emer was a more complete player on that Mucurapo team.

Going beyond that, I think Wendell Moore was a more complete player....so too Verron Skinner.

I never saw players like Carlton Franco and dem in action so I can't say.  Similarly, I saw very little of Leroy De Leon and Gally Cummings in their heyday.

If yuh definition of most complete player is one who is proficient in all the skills of foottball bar goalkeeping i.e. passing, defending, attacking, two footed, shooting...then..

Based on who I have seen...I would say Verron Skinner.

Other honourable mentions...


Russell Latapy
Wendell Moore
Dwight Yorke
Emerson Dubisson
David Nakhid
Derek Lewis
Bert Neptune
Brian Williams
SH would say Peter Mitchell in dah list too

Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline palos

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2005, 12:16:49 PM »
And... if memory serves me right, dat same year, Fatima, with Garnet Craig and de Corneal brothers (Allan and Anton) beat Mucurapo too.

But It was all about Ian "Moose" Clauzel!!!

Yuh correck....on Fatima grounds when 90% of de crowd was Mucurapo supporters...Game was played on very wet field.  Clauzel had man busy but Garnet Craig play like a monster dat day.

If ah not mistaken, Brian de Souza did score de winnin goal.
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Offline slates

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2005, 12:40:12 PM »
What I find interesting is, the topic here was/is TnT Greatest Players. With the exception of a select few, isn't it ALARMING that the topic has been centered on players who distinguished themselves in the "Colleges League"? Isn't it a shame that we haven't spoken more of players who gained noteriety in the TTFA/TTFF sanctioned leagues and for the national teams? Yuh see, dat is why to this day, we cyah qualify for ah world cup. Because beyond de colleges league, collectively, we football... ah doh want to vent condemnation.

Other than the colleges league, we can only talk of a handful of player, Dwight, Russel etc, who has done something beyond high school. I remember Earl "Spiderman" Carter had a stint with the Cosmos. Other than that, I am at a loss.

Any comments???
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Offline royal

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2005, 12:58:29 PM »
Slates.....plenty men went on from college ball to higher heights not only those few yuh mention.The problem is the talent pool at secondary school has drop dramatically over de years.
  Just to start yu thinking almost de whole of Benedicks '66 squad went on with 9 men from there starting 11 eventually playing for Trinidad.

Ron La - Belmont

Lincoln Phillip - QRC

Everard Cummins - Fatima

and the list goes on and on.Too many to continue

Offline real madness

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2005, 03:45:18 PM »
Slates have a good point which indirectly explains the problem with Trinidad football.  Clauzel and Co. are considered to be the among the greatest TnT players yet some of them have not played much for the national senior level. 
Some of the reasons being a lack of development of top youth footballers, personal bias (Clauzel dreads) and other administrative issues.  So these issues have affected our football since then, not only in St Clair era.  Hopefully these types of issues can be rectified so our football can improve.  Football is not affected only at the national senior level by these issues, even at the youth level including schools football.
For example, there was a guy named Chevaughn Marshall who played for Presentation College, San Fernando and was a member of the National Under 17 team captained by Avery John that barely missed qualification for the youth World Cup.
Marshall was a very good left footed player that gained selection on a national youth team but could not start for Presenation because other players were selected by the Principal (not the coach) because these players parents contributed a lot of money to the school.  I am sure you forumites can cite numerous examples of very good players that did not get a good opportunity to demonstrate their talent.
I wish Beenhakker the best as we attempt to qualify for the World Cup but he is working for a very poorly organized football administration at all levels.  Hopefully the players commitment and heart will be enough on the road to Germany.

Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2005, 03:54:40 PM »
In reply to NC

I have played against Denzil White....and Ole Man....and all a dem Cocorite Fellas.  Denzil was excellent but not the "most complete player we ever produce" in my opinion.  In my opinion, Emer was a more complete player on that Mucurapo team.

Going beyond that, I think Wendell Moore was a more complete player....so too Verron Skinner.

I never saw players like Carlton Franco and dem in action so I can't say.  Similarly, I saw very little of Leroy De Leon and Gally Cummings in their heyday.

If yuh definition of most complete player is one who is proficient in all the skills of foottball bar goalkeeping i.e. passing, defending, attacking, two footed, shooting...then..

Based on who I have seen...I would say Verron Skinner.

Other honourable mentions...


Russell Latapy
Wendell Moore
Dwight Yorke
Emerson Dubisson
David Nakhid
Derek Lewis
Bert Neptune
Brian Williams
SH would say Peter Mitchell in dah list too



Palos, tell me a bit more about your experience comming up against Denzil, was it as a defender and what was it like?  I must admit that I am biased because I played a lot with these guys.

Offline doc

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2005, 05:01:55 PM »

Palos, tell me a bit more about your experience comming up against Denzil, was it as a defender and what was it like? I must admit that I am biased because I played a lot with these guys.

As a former teammate, I found Denzil to be quite good as a striker. He however relied too heavily on his individual improvization, sometimes to the detriment of the team.
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Offline palos

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2005, 05:14:50 PM »
In reply to NC

I used to play midfield.  I was nowhere near dem fellas class but ah was capable enough.  It was difficult to mark dem fellas one on one so basically what we would is try and deny dem space.  Denzil was very sharp...i.e. explosive over a short distance but if you could deny him space, you could somewhat limit his effectiveness.

This is why I say Alan "Peru" Anderson was my personal nemesis.  He make me realise jes how much of a shithong I really was.  Ah knew all de time ah was a shithong....jes didn't know de extent until "Peru" show meh...every single time ah play against he.

"Peru" was definitely de toughest player I ever play against.  He was like a ghost sometimes....one minute he dey in front a yuh....nex...he gone.  Dat man coulda play witout de ball.  And nuff skills to boot.  I have nuff respeck fuh Peru.

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Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2005, 06:16:36 PM »
Palos, good assesment of Denzil.

Offline maxg

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2005, 06:18:04 PM »

As a former teammate, I found Denzil to be quite good as a striker. He however relied too heavily on his individual improvization, sometimes to the detriment of the team.

as a coach of Denzil for 1 season doc, I agree, yet he was still successful...what it did definately affect was team production, my past goal-scoring forwards, were quite intimidated, as they were unsure of their roles. He very often, outran his support. Yet he was hard to knock, when the other team had to take it out of the net...

Offline maxg

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2005, 06:30:34 PM »
Palos, mine had to be Chinnas...Lawd he geh meh liks....and on top of dat, ah doh even think ah get close enuff to the man for him to notice meh....After the 3 games ah dey like ah pothound jus let meh out, ah steaming and ah stink....ah was feeling like it nah,... ah know I was it...
So dey last time in DC, he come over and say nice game man...all ah coulda say was "F**k U for the once again",When ah look up, d man son right dey, well is den ah wish somebody did jus flush meh down ah manhole right dey.... I apologized many times after, buh never really forgave mehself for at least not  getting in ah good bat while we was on the field.....YUH HEAR DAT CHINNAS... :'( :D ;D
« Last Edit: May 17, 2005, 06:32:43 PM by maxg »

Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2005, 09:09:38 PM »
A lot of guys talk about Dwight and these guys as good forwards, and they might be, however, I think that their was more opportunity for them than there were for many players that were better than they were.  Having seen and played with or against players like Steve David, Denzil white, Eric White Lybert Duncan, Mikey "pigshit" (sorry I cannot remember his correct name), Ron Laforest, Leroy Spann, Garth Pollonais, Renwrick Jones, Sammy to name few - it is hard to accept Dwight and others as the best we have produced.

Offline ironman

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2005, 06:15:55 AM »
I am very young and just want to ask one question.Looking back at all these great players which I never saw and the time they played alot of foreign clubs came to Trinidad,and before that they came and toured and what not.How come they never took advantage of the players they saw?South Africa,Bermuda all had player/s that penetrated the English Leagues before the 80's.
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Offline doc

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2005, 06:31:16 AM »
I am very young and just want to ask one question.Looking back at all these great players which I never saw and the time they played alot of foreign clubs came to Trinidad,and before that they came and toured and what not.How come they never took advantage of the players they saw?South Africa,Bermuda all had player/s that penetrated the English Leagues before the 80's.

For the period from the late '60s to late '70s, USA and the NASL was the favoured destination for our aspiring professionals. Maybe accessibility and interest dictated that. :-\
« Last Edit: May 18, 2005, 06:33:23 AM by doc »
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Offline slates

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2005, 06:48:58 AM »
OK fellas, here's the deal, I think to suggest Dwight is not TnT's greatest takes some balls. Greatness is measured by accomplishments and NOBODY from TnT could match Dwight's accomplishments, granted, timing and opportunity had a lot to do with dat. De problem is, Dwight's accomplishments have not been in de Red, White & Black. Dwight could NEVER be for TnT, what he was for Man U. And the reason is... TEAM. A great player is nothing w/o de team becasuse on his own, he could only do so much. Dwight had Beckahm to cross for him and Cole to work 1 - 2's with him, Keane to win balls for him, De Great Dane to lock-up de goal, etc.

We in TnT, de mentality on de field seem to be, TRY to keep de other team from scoring and, as they say in American Football, "put up a Hail Mary" and hope one ah we forwards come down with it and score. I heard about de TnT team dat was robbed in Haiti in 74 (I think). From what I heard, dat was a team. De Strike Squad was a team. What he have now, or at least, what we've seen of them prior to Leo, is not a team. I hope Leo could make a team with what he's working with. We have de skills, we have players, but we need ah team that we could argue is TnT's Greatest. Qualifying for Germany will certainly stake a claim for dat.

I remember not too long ago, Barbados and St. Vincent used to be afraid to play Trini. Now, dem Vincies coming to Trinidad, talking s#!t, expecting to win. What happened?????
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Offline NC

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Re: TnT Greatest Players
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2005, 07:18:01 AM »
Slates, the problem with your arguement is that your focus is on the team while the discussion started about individual players.  Secondly, while Dwight accomplished a lot in club football, T&T have yet to benefit from his years of playing professionally.  Whenever, he plays for T&T he has been unable to influence those games in the way that Zidane would in the French team or Falcao did for the Brazilian team to name a few.  Imagine, in the USA game they did not even find it necessary to pay him any extra attention, why, because his game was average.  Did he play badly? No, but he was not special either.  I agree with your arguement that most of his accomplishments came as a result of playing with a good team.  Not to undermine his ability to put the ball in the back of the net, that is not easy to do consistently, eventhough the goals are being created by others.