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Author Topic: Is it lack of Preparation that causes our under 20s & under 17's from advancing?  (Read 4446 times)

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Offline saga pinto

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I was recently reading on the wedsite ussoccer.com of which many of you on this site are familiar with,there was an article describing the u.s. under 17s time together at the the IMG Academy or for locals at bradenton,fla the country club,also a boarding school,now I've been there at least twice and the conditions are impecable,the security tight, you can't get in unless you're invited.

I read that these younsters have been living together since early january of this year to present,my calculations almost a year living and studying together,they're not playing any secondary school football like some of us insist should be the case with our T&T players,and when we lose games everybody looking around for answers,now I watched and observed our trend to gearing up for tournaments and it's appaling to say the least even ancient in some respects,what's taking us so long to realise the system is broken was always broken and ent working and never will if we continue along this path,you can't be serious and when you have a game against the likes of jamaica under 20s then  man running practice a couple weeks in advance or training for only two months together in belief that will do the job and everybody will be geling,complete and utter madness.

I say take pattern from what working for the u.s. under 17s who just held there own against a very formidable brazilian under 17 team (2 goal tie),look it takes a lot of money to pump into such a programm as what the u.s is doing currently and I understand that,but if we want to seriously compete on any level consistently we've got to invest time and money and it's not like we don't have the money,we do.

Anything other than developing longterm training camps couple with living facilities,for our youths will always result in failure,so is time we stop dreaming and open our eyes...............Peace & Love                       

Offline Tallman

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Anything other than developing longterm training camps couple with living facilities,for our youths will always result in failure,so is time we stop dreaming and open our eyes   
Because of our size, we doh even have tuh initially worry about live-in facilities. I would just be glad to have a player pool for all age-groups that training reguarly with matches being organized.

This issue that you bring up is not limited to U-20 and U-17. It is our entire football programme (or lack thereof) that is suffering. It's not that our administration doh know what needs to be done, is jes dat dey either incapable or unwilling to take de necessary steps to make it a reality.
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Offline saga pinto

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Anything other than developing longterm training camps couple with living facilities,for our youths will always result in failure,so is time we stop dreaming and open our eyes
Because of our size, we doh even have tuh initially worry about live-in facilities. I would just be glad to have a player pool for all age-groups that training reguarly with matches being organized.

This issue that you bring up is not limited to U-20 and U-17. It is our entire football programme (or lack thereof) that is suffering. It's not that our administration doh know what needs to be done, is jes dat dey either incapable or unwilling to take de necessary steps to make it a reality.

Is it not shameful on there part tallman,it almost seems like football assination from within a political & corporate arena.........I'm so tired of it,it ent funny.......... 

Offline KND2

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I do not think preparations is the issues.

Most of these men playing football everyday in some form or another. just like the youth in florida.

Playing as a team is not required to gel as a team, gelling can take 4 weeks 4-5 training a week.


I think the main problem is improper coaching tactics and squad selection.

instead of talking about how to prepare in ideal circumstances we should be talk about how to coach in less that ideal circumstance.

Coaches drive the preparations.

Offline WestCoast

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I do not think preparations is the issues.
Most of these men playing football everyday in some form or another. just like the youth in florida.
Playing as a team is not required to gel as a team, gelling can take 4 weeks 4-5 training a week.
I think the main problem is improper coaching tactics and squad selection.
instead of talking about how to prepare in ideal circumstances we should be talk about how to coach in less that ideal circumstance.
Coaches drive the preparations.
explain a different way
because you say it takes 16 to 20 trainings for a team to gel
I confused with your argument
wha it is ya tryin to say
« Last Edit: December 09, 2006, 12:10:11 PM by RedHowler »
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Offline zuluwarrior

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We must get to the root of the problem,this iz us here :banginghead: against the wall and we just keep asking what iz the problem . we all know what the problem iz, it iz not the coach neither the players, and iz high time we as supporters do something about it.the people who run TTFF must be remove or we will stay here talking this talk .we  just talking loud and doing notin.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2006, 12:28:46 PM by Tallman »
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Offline Coop's

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Good arguement here,would it be safe to say that WC teams play better than Club teams?because these club teams play together weeks,months,years and WC teams come together days/weeks.   

Offline saga pinto

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Good arguement here,would it be safe to say that WC teams play better than Club teams?because these club teams play together weeks,months,years and WC teams come together days/weeks.

Nice little point there coops,interesting but I'm wondering how does it correlate to the structure of our football,as it relates to our under 20's under 17s and the national mens team(can't forget the women)... 

Offline Ngozi

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I do not think preparations is the issues.

Most of these men playing football everyday in some form or another. just like the youth in florida.

Playing as a team is not required to gel as a team, gelling can take 4 weeks 4-5 training a week.


I think the main problem is improper coaching tactics and squad selection.

instead of talking about how to prepare in ideal circumstances we should be talk about how to coach in less that ideal circumstance.

Coaches drive the preparations.

Funny ...this is actually an interesting argument you put forward but your perspective overwrites the seriousness of preparing a national team for one thing "as a team is not required to gell as a team?" is a statement that borders on insanity and the fact that you put gelling down to four to five weeks is also not a fact ...gelling deals with personalities understanding each other knowing each other and understanding how each other plays college soccer in the us goes for three mths and sometimes  teams still don't gel and you saying 5 weeks madness..and playing ball in one form or another  means mad could be sweating on the pan and just because he doing it everyday means he fit to play 90 mins wholefield ball...with no technical training or anything  cmon now    but I will give you props on the statement that based on our current situation and with no apparent fix looming in the near future coaches  in TT must learn how to prepare adequately under less than ideal situations we should be good at it we've been given lots of practice at it.........Personally now is a time to build keep this team and have them trainign with the foreigners coming through for christmas and   even use them as a prep squad for the u-17 team

Offline Coop's

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Good arguement here,would it be safe to say that WC teams play better than Club teams?because these club teams play together weeks,months,years and WC teams come together days/weeks.

Nice little point there coops,interesting but I'm wondering how does it correlate to the structure of our football,as it relates to our under 20's under 17s and the national mens team(can't forget the women)...
I understand what you are saying because i myself can't figure out a magic formular for our national teams,all i'll say at this point it's difficult for players to come together overnight and play well.
  This is just my feelings, government not going all the way with Football because it will create problems with those other sports,they will also want their fair share they all want money,everybody uses that as the reason sports not doing well.

Offline doublesandsolo

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I though the under 17 still in with a chance of qualifying.?

Offline Ponnoxx

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 Watch the field they play on....the size of those guys when compared to other teams...And Preparation start way too late...it supposed to at least start two years in front with the under 17's ...under 17 prep starting with the under 15 and so on....It doesn't have a priemere youth tournament in T&T which would wage the best youth players against each other...so that we could choose from....If we had some of these things...No nutrition plan for these guys...steups...basically STRUCTURE is what we need

Offline Benchwarmer

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Watch the field they play on....the size of those guys when compared to other teams...And Preparation start way too late...it supposed to at least start two years in front with the under 17's ...under 17 prep starting with the under 15 and so on....It doesn't have a priemere youth tournament in T&T which would wage the best youth players against each other...so that we could choose from....If we had some of these things...No nutrition plan for these guys...steups...basically STRUCTURE is what we need

With the Under 17 WC in Trinidad they had a league like that. It was the ICN league that was played all about the country and that started at Under 14 i think and went up by an age group everyyear.....

I know some fellas who got called for screening from that tournament...so is not a foreign idea to trinidad. is just it have so much football playing now that to pull off something like that, if yuh not on the ball it go flop big.lI remember on Saturday mornings the savannah filled with teams....... even St.Anthony's school team came witha side......(Chin Sang and Cabral and others..)

Offline Mango Chow!

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With all due respect, Gentlemen, this thread is just a different variation of the same theme many of us have been hashing and re-hashing, over and over and over again.  we all ought to know what is wrong with our football by now.  Our administration, save but for maybe one or two individuals, is rotten, selfish, greedy and incompetent, starting with the not-so-special advisor to the ttff and his sons.  As ong as the same people and/or the same philosophies are in place and running our football, we are going to go to our respective graves asking the same questions. 


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Offline saga pinto

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With all due respect, Gentlemen, this thread is just a different variation of the same theme many of us have been hashing and re-hashing, over and over and over again. we all ought to know what is wrong with our football by now. Our administration, save but for maybe one or two individuals, is rotten, selfish, greedy and incompetent, starting with the not-so-special advisor to the ttff and his sons. As ong as the same people and/or the same philosophies are in place and running our football, we are going to go to our respective graves asking the same questions.

Well said mango chow,but with all these ideas thrown out by respective members and as you said we've been over this subject many times before,where's the middle ground or is there any middle ground by which change can be iniatiated.

I wonder sometimes if many of us who now live abroad,decided to start a campaign for change back home,how effective it would be and how much money it would take push a venture like that,or are we just pawns in a chess game..........     

Offline Mr Mc

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I do not think preparations is the issues.

Most of these men playing football everyday in some form or another. just like the youth in florida.

Playing as a team is not required to gel as a team, gelling can take 4 weeks 4-5 training a week.

I dont think you will find another footballer that will agree with this statement! You can gell to a certain extent in 4 - 5 weeks. But think how much more intune you will be with your teammates after months of training and playing together. Is like the men yuh does sweat with every weekend. After sooo much time sweating week in week out, yuh does just know when a certain man get the ball he go beats till loss the ball. A next man yuh go know doh expect he to play no defense.
4-5 weeks is not enough time, I totally disagree with you playing as a team is required for playing as a team. Most time National Teams dont have an extended period of time to train together constantly, cause most guys on the senior teams are playing professionally elsewhere.

Quote
instead of talking about how to prepare in ideal circumstances we should be talk about how to coach in less that ideal circumstance.

Coaches drive the preparations.

If the coach doh have enough time or the right players his driving of the preperations will be very limited. So while coach in Trini means coaching in less than ideal circumstances, we should strive for a time when it is not so. Not just sit back and accept our station in life as it were.

Offline Mango Chow!

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With all due respect, Gentlemen, this thread is just a different variation of the same theme many of us have been hashing and re-hashing, over and over and over again. we all ought to know what is wrong with our football by now. Our administration, save but for maybe one or two individuals, is rotten, selfish, greedy and incompetent, starting with the not-so-special advisor to the ttff and his sons. As ong as the same people and/or the same philosophies are in place and running our football, we are going to go to our respective graves asking the same questions.

Well said mango chow,but with all these ideas thrown out by respective members and as you said we've been over this subject many times before,where's the middle ground or is there any middle ground by which change can be iniatiated.
I wonder sometimes if many of us who now live abroad,decided to start a campaign for change back home,how effective it would be and how much money it would take push a venture like that,or are we just pawns in a chess game..........
   
       Unfortunately, Saga, boy, I think that even though the problem lies with  all of us, It is really up to the folks back home to band together and let the ttff know in no uncertain terms, that we are not going to accept their disgraceful mismanagement of our football administration any longer......but, with all the crime and other things going on back home, I would be asking much of my people to shift that kind of focus on football.  The first thing I think we need to start doing is boycotting ANY ttff sanctioned event at home (not a unique idea, other posters on this site have suggested this before) until they carry out a complete re-vamping of the ttff, it's executive members and their structures and policies.  Abandon football in T&T until they show us that they are gong to do what it takes to bring about the necessary changes to bring our football development programs to a more than competent level in CONCACAF.  Of course there are many of us living abroad that are educated in the ways of the football world.....OUTSIDE of Trinidad & Tobago, men (and women, i'm sure) that have ideas, have taken coaching courses, etc., that want to go back home and give something positive to the development of football as a whole, but don't have the clout to do so.  Most people in those positions are transplanted Trinbagonians whose roots now run deep on foreign soil, earning their living abroad, and it would not be easy for any of them, individually or collectively, to go back home (or even operate from abroad, unless Flex and Tallman and dem could look into forming some kinda football syndicate) and start the kind of movement that is necessary to bring about the change we need.  I don't see the change coming untill jackula and he sons and dem done long gone, dead and buried.



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Offline Jahyouth

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lack of talent

Offline KND2

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Preparations is just a crutch that the administration, coaches, and fans use to explain our short comings as a team.


West ham has lost quite a few games and they have fired their manager. They will hire a new manager. If they end up wining a few games in a row does that mean that they are better prepared.
Pardew has had the side for over a year
A new manager will have the side for weeks, is it preparations.

Back in Oct 15 I saw this side play barbados. they looked good on the day and performed well.
lets assume they had been training for at least 4 weeks.

That means they had been in training since Sep 15th, We are in the first week of December.

That is a total of 10 weeks that this team has been under the coaching of williams, corneal and Wim.


in addition you are talking about Talent players here,
You are talking about athletic players here
You are toalking about motivated players here, (everyman on that squad wants to be the next big playing in foreign and make a piece of money)

You are talking about fit players, each playing is playing under a top club in Trinidad and they have been training for the whole season.

We are talking about players who have distinguished themselves amoung their peers and are national level players.


This is not some shit side of neighborhood players,

These are hand selected, good players.

The job of the Coach Williams is to take these players and get them past the likes of Dominacan Republic, St Kitts and Jamaica.
He was not able to do it.
And if he aint able to do it in 12 weeks 12 months would not make a difference.

If it was Mexico, USA and Cananda we could understand but the teams we played we should be able to get past.


If we play against a team and they run the socks off of we and buss we ass, the solution is not that we need more time to train to get fit. the solution is how to set up a game plan to neutralize the added fitness of the next team.



Using the excuse that the team did not prepare fully, did not play enough practice match did not go on enough tours, did not gel, could not get players release from club, did not have proper non muddy fields to train on, etc etc

is nothing but excuse.

As long as we keep making excuse we will never get on to the real problem.

Which is how do we win within the current environment that is Trinidad and Tobago football.

In Holland " which is below sea level" the ground in the winter time is always wet and muddy, Most teams have artificial turf in domes so the weather can be less of a factor. hence they are able to train unaffected year round.

We bring a man from Holland to tell we that muddy fields and lack of nets is affecting the "Team preparation" As a solution we are suggested to get Artificial fields.

Another solution would be to spread some sand and gravel before laying top soil when we build a field so we could have proper drainage.
Or maybe use screw pegs, play foot to foot passes and chip the ball over mud puddles.

Either way you can sit and blame poor facilities for you poor preparions and performance or you can get about the business of wining based on the hand that you were dealt.

Ah fed up of the lack of preparations excuse.
sometimes we win sometimes we lose and the preparations is the same.
 

 

Offline Tallman

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Back in Oct 15 I saw this side play barbados. they looked good on the day and performed well.
lets assume they had been training for at least 4 weeks.

That means they had been in training since Sep 15th, We are in the first week of December.

That is a total of 10 weeks that this team has been under the coaching of williams, corneal and Wim.

Doh get tie up. When yuh say 10 weeks, doh feel dat dey was training several times a week. In de run up to de matches against DR, St. Kitts and St. Vincent, dey were training once a week, who knows for how long. Plus, not everyone always turned up at the training sessions because of Pro-League and SSFL. Remember how Silas Spann went tuh one session and never show up again? In de build up to de  play-offs against JA, dey were training at most 3 times a week.

Ah fed up of the lack of preparations excuse.
sometimes we win sometimes we lose and the preparations is the same.
Same way when yuh cram fuh exams, you could either pass or fail, but 9 times out of 10, what is likely to happen?

While preparations do not guarantee success, it sure in hell increases the likelihood of achieving it. Why yuh tink clubs does have pre-season training, fuh kicks?
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Offline Trini _2022

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lack of talent

easy you will call him out
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Offline KND2

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Well Tallman

the problem is not lack of preparations.

because they had 10 weeks to prepare.

If they can only train one day a week then who fault is that.

What are they doing for the clubs not training?

Club football will always be there so if we cannot get men in training because of club football then we will never get them in training.

American U 20 players are playing for clubs and colleges and them not self training one day a week so are they having bad preparations as well.

Mexico U17 team had a man playing in Barcelona Spain, what kind of team preparations he had.


You talk about Silas Spann show up for one training and then never come back, If that is the case and preparations are important why even pick him for the team.

i sure it have plently men in Trinidad who will come and train 5 days a week to play on the national side, including the players from Jabloteh, W connection etc.

Just give them money.
hey will be sure to show up.

Offline saga pinto

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Preparations is just a crutch that the administration, coaches, and fans use to explain our short comings as a team.


West ham has lost quite a few games and they have fired their manager. They will hire a new manager. If they end up wining a few games in a row does that mean that they are better prepared.
Pardew has had the side for over a year
A new manager will have the side for weeks, is it preparations.

Back in Oct 15 I saw this side play barbados. they looked good on the day and performed well.
lets assume they had been training for at least 4 weeks.

That means they had been in training since Sep 15th, We are in the first week of December.

That is a total of 10 weeks that this team has been under the coaching of williams, corneal and Wim.


in addition you are talking about Talent players here,
You are talking about athletic players here
You are toalking about motivated players here, (everyman on that squad wants to be the next big playing in foreign and make a piece of money)

You are talking about fit players, each playing is playing under a top club in Trinidad and they have been training for the whole season.

We are talking about players who have distinguished themselves amoung their peers and are national level players.


This is not some shit side of neighborhood players,

These are hand selected, good players.

The job of the Coach Williams is to take these players and get them past the likes of Dominacan Republic, St Kitts and Jamaica.
He was not able to do it.
And if he aint able to do it in 12 weeks 12 months would not make a difference.

If it was Mexico, USA and Cananda we could understand but the teams we played we should be able to get past.


If we play against a team and they run the socks off of we and buss we ass, the solution is not that we need more time to train to get fit. the solution is how to set up a game plan to neutralize the added fitness of the next team.



Using the excuse that the team did not prepare fully, did not play enough practice match did not go on enough tours, did not gel, could not get players release from club, did not have proper non muddy fields to train on, etc etc

is nothing but excuse.

As long as we keep making excuse we will never get on to the real problem.

Which is how do we win within the current environment that is Trinidad and Tobago football.

In Holland " which is below sea level" the ground in the winter time is always wet and muddy, Most teams have artificial turf in domes so the weather can be less of a factor. hence they are able to train unaffected year round.

We bring a man from Holland to tell we that muddy fields and lack of nets is affecting the "Team preparation" As a solution we are suggested to get Artificial fields.

Another solution would be to spread some sand and gravel before laying top soil when we build a field so we could have proper drainage.
Or maybe use screw pegs, play foot to foot passes and chip the ball over mud puddles.

Either way you can sit and blame poor facilities for you poor preparions and performance or you can get about the business of wining based on the hand that you were dealt.

Ah fed up of the lack of preparations excuse.
sometimes we win sometimes we lose and the preparations is the same.
 

 
Pardew has had the side for over a year
A new manager will have the side for weeks, is it preparations.

At least it's the same side that's been playing together for a year,therefore it's not a preparations issue but a managerial issue............

Offline Observer

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International teams need to play international games. Lots of International games. Do you know any National team that does well without playing a series of games on a consistent basis. Look at what Hiddink did when he took over SKorea. he played games versus every possible style. Our National youth teams try to prepare with the odd games versus club team at home. No travel, no different food, hotel, time zones change, thiefing ref, bad ass crowd etc etc.
The teams are not prepared right at all, plain and simple. Look at Jose Marinho he said that 4 weeks is not enough to prepare his team in pre season. They are seasoned pros, training twice a day, much less yong inexperienced players
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Offline jai john

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Anything other than developing longterm training camps couple with living facilities,for our youths will always result in failure,so is time we stop dreaming and open our eyes
Because of our size, we doh even have tuh initially worry about live-in facilities. I would just be glad to have a player pool for all age-groups that training reguarly with matches being organized.

This issue that you bring up is not limited to U-20 and U-17. It is our entire football programme (or lack thereof) that is suffering. It's not that our administration doh know what needs to be done, is jes dat dey either incapable or unwilling to take de necessary steps to make it a reality.

i will suport you there as no one can tell me that jack does not know what is good football or how to do  really do things the proper way. If it is as it is it is because he wants it that way ....now try to say that fast  :devil: :devil:

Offline najee

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It's alway the same shit with the U20,U17and U14....went will the top people who are running TTFF...learn..same shit every qualification...don't they get fed-up with the dog-shit...

Offline saga pinto

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Anything other than developing longterm training camps couple with living facilities,for our youths will always result in failure,so is time we stop dreaming and open our eyes
Because of our size, we doh even have tuh initially worry about live-in facilities. I would just be glad to have a player pool for all age-groups that training reguarly with matches being organized.

This issue that you bring up is not limited to U-20 and U-17. It is our entire football programme (or lack thereof) that is suffering. It's not that our administration doh know what needs to be done, is jes dat dey either incapable or unwilling to take de necessary steps to make it a reality.

i will suport you there as no one can tell me that jack does not know what is good football or how to do really do things the proper way. If it is as it is it is because he wants it that way ....now try to say that fast :devil: :devil:

Ah trying saying fast fast and ah bite meh tongue,now it bleeding!!

Offline humble

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    Re: Is it lack of Preparation that causes our under 20s & under 17's from advanc
Reply #1 on: December 09, 2006, 11:21:30 AM    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: saga pinto on December 09, 2006, 11:05:51 AM
Anything other than developing longterm training camps couple with living facilities,for our youths will always result in failure,so is time we stop dreaming and open our eyes   

Because of our size, we doh even have tuh initially worry about live-in facilities. I would just be glad to have a player pool for all age-groups that training reguarly with matches being organized.

This issue that you bring up is not limited to U-20 and U-17. It is our entire football programme (or lack thereof) that is suffering. It's not that our administration doh know what needs to be done, is jes dat dey either incapable or unwilling to take de necessary steps to make it a reality.

Ah like wha tallman saying here, buh de truth is de admin doh have dey hart in de matter an for so long dat dey cronically ill - ah serious! Tink about it - look how long dey cyant get an answer dat bring continuously good results. Dey get so bad in dey setback and now-for-now ways dat dey loss whaever knowledge dey might have had or willingness to listen and learn dat right now none ah dem cud truly help anybody anywhere wid antithng called..... constructive or thoughtful. Sorry... buh we doh have the capabilities to understand wha is needed and the hart to care.

See ya!