French Invasion Through Guadeloupe?

[Toussaint]

BASSE-TERRE, Guadeloupe: The French national football team, also known as “Les Bleus (The Blues)” is largely made up of native Guadeloupean players.

Thierry Henry, Arsenal’s top scorer, is considered as one the most dangerous strikers in the world. Henry’s family is from the small Guadeloupean island of La Desirade.

Lilian Thuram (Juventus) is also Guadeloupean-born and, though a defensive player, scored twice, in 1998, when France became world champions. With Mickael Sylvestre (Manchester), William Gallas (Chelsea), and Pascal Chimbonda, they are considered as the “black guard” of the French team. The sixth one is Louis Saha (Manchester).

So, 50 per cent of the French national team on the field could be from Guadeloupe. That’s why this year, more than ever, Guadeloupeans are very interested in this World Cup. Some of them really think that, without these French West-Indian players, “Les Bleus” could never be at that level in such a competition.

Most Guadeloupeans are usually fans of the Brazilian football team but this year is unusual because Guadeloupean football fans are divided into several groups: one for the French team and others for the Brazilian or Trinidadian teams.

In 1998, when France won the World Cup for the first time in its history, after the tremendous final match against Ronaldo’s Brazil, many Guadeloupeans both felt happy and unhappy.

[Trini _2026]

hmm glad they support us I wonder if haiti supported us during the WC

[beau-brummel]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

[Trini _2026]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

so i guess mainly mulatto upper class  support  argentina the lower brazil

[Jumbie]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

so i guess mainly mulatto upper class  support  argentina the lower brazil

lawd..how did you come to that conclusion?

[TrinInfinite]

touissant there are many of us from tt that have roots in the french antilles, namely some of my family are from martinique and guadalope, no to mention of course curucoa and aruba....

[Reggaefan]

hmm glad they support us I wonder if haiti supported us during the WC

. He heh. di u support Jamaica in France'98 ? 

[Trini _2026]

hmm glad they support us I wonder if haiti supported us during the WC

. He heh. di u support Jamaica in France'98 ? 

yuh like to start eh yuh want an answer

[Toussaint]

touissant there are many of us from tt that have roots in the french antilles, namely some of my family are from martinique and guadalope, no to mention of course curucoa and aruba....

Just to give you an idea how many of us supported TnT, my wife refused to watch the first TnT match in the wc just because she thought TnT was going to lose badly and she didn't want to see that. I actually had to convince her that if TnT play like they did against Mexico, they would do just fine. I was right, to her surprise

As Beau said, Haitians who support Brazil (meaning the majority) most likely supported TnT in the WC. Hey, Latas, Yorke, Stern...those dudes look just like the guy next door to me. My understanding is even your rival yardies supported TnT in the WC without saying it  

[Filho]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

so i guess mainly mulatto upper class  support  argentina the lower brazil

lawd..how did you come to that conclusion?

I think he is guessing that it may be divided around race lines..seeing as Argentine and European national teams are predominantly white, then white and mulatto Haitians may associate more easily with them than black Haitians who may go for Brazil, African and Caribbean teams. For some people, fan support is drawn around race lines..but I don't really buy that. I think it has to do more with marquee players...Haitians, be they dark or light skinned, probably started to support Argentina because of Maradona. Many black Haitians probably like Brazil because of Zico and many light skinned ones may like Holland becasue of Gullit. So I don't know, but support as a result of skin color exists, but probably not that prevalent. Even so, how do you know that themajority of the Haitian upper class is not black? I really don't know..it's just a question.

Sticking with the race theory, here is an interesting observation. It is difficult to imagine that people in the Caribbean who have supported Brazil for a long time actually did so because Brazil had 'black' teams. In fact only since 1994 has Brazil fielded majority 'non-white' teams. Brazil has a lot of 'brown' and mixed players but very very few black players....and very few players that Brazilian and Caribban society would actually consider black in every day life. HOnestly, how often does Brazil field a player that looks lik Pele. Go back to 1990, 1986, 1982 and before and Brazil had predominantly white teams...in WC 1990, the only black starter was Valdo...Muller was dark skinned too..though not black by the typical brazilian or caribbean standards...the rest, Taffarel, Dunga, Branco, Jorginho, Ricardo Gomes, Ricardo Rocha, Mauro Galvao, Alemao and Careca are all either white or a mix with predomianantly white features...Go back in time and it is more or less the same. So I think support for Brazil has more to do with style of play and grat players rather than what the team looked like. Even in the last couple of decades, European teams like France, Holland and England field just as many 'black' players as Brazil....Maybe I am wrong..in that case,  perception, I guess, is stronger than reality

[Toussaint]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

so i guess mainly mulatto upper class  support  argentina the lower brazil

lawd..how did you come to that conclusion?

I think he is guessing that it may be divided around race lines..seeing as Argentine and European national teams are predominantly white, then white and mulatto Haitians may associate more easily with them than black Haitians who may go for Brazil, African and Caribbean teams. For some people, fan support is drawn around race lines..but I don't really buy that. I think it has to do more with marquee players...Haitians, be they dark or light skinned, probably started to support Argentina because of Maradona. Many black Haitians probably like Brazil because of Zico and many light skinned ones may like Holland becasue of Gullit. So I don't know, but support as a result of skin color exists, but probably not that prevalent. Even so, how do you know that themajority of the Haitian upper class is not black? I really don't know..it's just a question.

Sticking with the race theory, here is an interesting observation. It is difficult to imagine that people in the Caribbean who have supported Brazil for a long time actually did so because Brazil had 'black' teams. In fact only since 1994 has Brazil fielded majority 'non-white' teams. Brazil has a lot of 'brown' and mixed players but very very few black players....and very few players that Brazilian and Caribban society would actually consider black in every day life. HOnestly, how often does Brazil field a player that looks lik Pele. Go back to 1990, 1986, 1982 and before and Brazil had predominantly white teams...in WC 1990, the only black starter was Valdo...Muller was dark skinned too..though not black by the typical brazilian or caribbean standards...the rest, Taffarel, Dunga, Branco, Jorginho, Ricardo Gomes, Ricardo Rocha, Mauro Galvao, Alemao and Careca are all either white or a mix with predomianantly white features...Go back in time and it is more or less the same. So I think support for Brazil has more to do with style of play and grat players rather than what the team looked like. Even in the last couple of decades, European teams like France, Holland and England field just as many 'black' players as Brazil....Maybe I am wrong..in that case,  perception, I guess, is stronger than reality

You are quite right, filho. Haitians' support for either Brazil or Argentina are not drawn around race eventhough Brazil fans in Haiti like myself often accuse the other group of supporting a team that refuses to give its black people a chance.

The percentage of light skin Haitians who support Brazil over Argentina is probably the same as among the poorer Blacks. The race question is a subtile one as the richer light skinned Haitians have learned to keep a low profile while getting richer in a country where the majority is living in dire economic conditions. Not long ago, the Aristide gov even decided to kick out thousands of Haitian-Arabs arguying that they are in the country illegally (Some Arab families have been in Haiti for over a century!). The whites joined the black opposition and ousted Aristide.

(pst: Haiti is probably the only Caribbean Country where you can find poor white people. Some Polish soldiers joined the Haitian armies in 1802 and fought against Napoleon. Also, after the defeat of the British in Haiti by General Toussaint, many British colons decided to remain on the Island. The descendents of those two European groups live in remote villages in Haiti while those of the French, the Germans, the Americans, and the Arabs live in the suburb of Petionville. The latter group form the elite. The Vorbes are members of this group.)

[Jumbie]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

so i guess mainly mulatto upper class  support  argentina the lower brazil

lawd..how did you come to that conclusion?

I think he is guessing that it may be divided around race lines..seeing as Argentine and European national teams are predominantly white, then white and mulatto Haitians may associate more easily with them than black Haitians who may go for Brazil, African and Caribbean teams. For some people, fan support is drawn around race lines..but I don't really buy that. I think it has to do more with marquee players...Haitians, be they dark or light skinned, probably started to support Argentina because of Maradona. Many black Haitians probably like Brazil because of Zico and many light skinned ones may like Holland becasue of Gullit. So I don't know, but support as a result of skin color exists, but probably not that prevalent. Even so, how do you know that themajority of the Haitian upper class is not black? I really don't know..it's just a question.

Sticking with the race theory, here is an interesting observation. It is difficult to imagine that people in the Caribbean who have supported Brazil for a long time actually did so because Brazil had 'black' teams. In fact only since 1994 has Brazil fielded majority 'non-white' teams. Brazil has a lot of 'brown' and mixed players but very very few black players....and very few players that Brazilian and Caribban society would actually consider black in every day life. HOnestly, how often does Brazil field a player that looks lik Pele. Go back to 1990, 1986, 1982 and before and Brazil had predominantly white teams...in WC 1990, the only black starter was Valdo...Muller was dark skinned too..though not black by the typical brazilian or caribbean standards...the rest, Taffarel, Dunga, Branco, Jorginho, Ricardo Gomes, Ricardo Rocha, Mauro Galvao, Alemao and Careca are all either white or a mix with predomianantly white features...Go back in time and it is more or less the same. So I think support for Brazil has more to do with style of play and grat players rather than what the team looked like. Even in the last couple of decades, European teams like France, Holland and England field just as many 'black' players as Brazil....Maybe I am wrong..in that case,  perception, I guess, is stronger than reality

Yea pops.. New Year greetings to you and the family. After reading Triniman statement I figured out what he meant. But I wanted him to try and explain this and not rely on the poor backing brazil thing and the white and mix backing Arg. At least you and toussaint bailed him out.

U eh notice he failed to respond to me.

[Trini _2026]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

so i guess mainly mulatto upper class  support  argentina the lower brazil

lawd..how did you come to that conclusion?

I think he is guessing that it may be divided around race lines..seeing as Argentine and European national teams are predominantly white, then white and mulatto Haitians may associate more easily with them than black Haitians who may go for Brazil, African and Caribbean teams. For some people, fan support is drawn around race lines..but I don't really buy that. I think it has to do more with marquee players...Haitians, be they dark or light skinned, probably started to support Argentina because of Maradona. Many black Haitians probably like Brazil because of Zico and many light skinned ones may like Holland becasue of Gullit. So I don't know, but support as a result of skin color exists, but probably not that prevalent. Even so, how do you know that themajority of the Haitian upper class is not black? I really don't know..it's just a question.

Sticking with the race theory, here is an interesting observation. It is difficult to imagine that people in the Caribbean who have supported Brazil for a long time actually did so because Brazil had 'black' teams. In fact only since 1994 has Brazil fielded majority 'non-white' teams. Brazil has a lot of 'brown' and mixed players but very very few black players....and very few players that Brazilian and Caribban society would actually consider black in every day life. HOnestly, how often does Brazil field a player that looks lik Pele. Go back to 1990, 1986, 1982 and before and Brazil had predominantly white teams...in WC 1990, the only black starter was Valdo...Muller was dark skinned too..though not black by the typical brazilian or caribbean standards...the rest, Taffarel, Dunga, Branco, Jorginho, Ricardo Gomes, Ricardo Rocha, Mauro Galvao, Alemao and Careca are all either white or a mix with predomianantly white features...Go back in time and it is more or less the same. So I think support for Brazil has more to do with style of play and grat players rather than what the team looked like. Even in the last couple of decades, European teams like France, Holland and England field just as many 'black' players as Brazil....Maybe I am wrong..in that case,  perception, I guess, is stronger than reality

Yea pops.. New Year greetings to you and the family. After reading Triniman statement I figured out what he meant. But I wanted him to try and explain this and not rely on the poor backing brazil thing and the white and mix backing Arg. At least you and toussaint bailed him out.

U eh notice he failed to respond to me.

oh were you i did not know

[Pointman]

I am sure some probably supported TnT as a fellow Caribbean state. But Haitians are not monolithic in their support, for any team. There is a pattern, though!
For the majority, Haiti comes first and Brazil second. For the other group, it's Haiti and Argentina. The same people that tends to support Brazil will be more likely to support TnT or the Nigerias, Cameroun etc... Those who support Argentina more than likely would be supporters of France, or other Euros. My observation....

so i guess mainly mulatto upper class  support  argentina the lower brazil

lawd..how did you come to that conclusion?

  my thoughts exactly

[beau-brummel]

I was making an observation with regards to the different groups and the pattern that I see. I've never heard any notion of support based on color or race, between those support Brazil or Argentina, but I would be lying if I didn't say that class affiliation is not present in matter. I have heard those who speak bad of Brazil, mention their so call FAVELA roots. Maybe I am hanging with a Bougie crowd! In the Caribbean class sometimes supersedes what others may see as color.

[Bianconeri]

Someone plz tell me how Jocelyn Angloma who used to play for Valencia suit up for Guadeloupe??
yeh he have roots..but he play for France...

apparently he score a  long range FK goal to beat Cuba!

so u could play for France and then a side like Guadeloupe..but not the other way around??


cause they had a special on FSC a while back about this topic self...and something with teams like Martinique i believe could never go a WC...
could be wrong...someone plz clear it up for me

[spideybuff]

Yeah you can because Guadelope and Martinique are not part of FIFA and are colonies of France, thus you can represent both. Picture Guadelope and Martinique as territories in France, kinda like how Spanish players also play for Catalonia and Basque teams.

In essence, Henry and Thuram and them could come back and sweat in the Caribbean Cup once they retire.

[Bianconeri]

thanks there spideybuff...but thas a messed up rule...so Seedorf and davids go be rollin out for Suriname den...

hmm we shoulda stay under colonial rule jed...beckham sweatin for we tom.!

[Deeks]

Suriname is different. They are not a  department of Holland. They are like T&T, a republic.

[Dutty]

Not long ago, the Aristide gov even decided to kick out thousands of Haitian-Arabs arguying that they are in the country illegally (Some Arab families have been in Haiti for over a century!). The whites joined the black opposition and ousted Aristide.

(pst: Haiti is probably the only Caribbean Country where you can find poor white people. Some Polish soldiers joined the Haitian armies in 1802 and fought against Napoleon. Also, after the defeat of the British in Haiti by General Toussaint, many British colons decided to remain on the Island. The descendents of those two European groups live in remote villages in Haiti while those of the French, the Germans, the Americans, and the Arabs live in the suburb of Petionville. The latter group form the elite. The Vorbes are members of this group.)

Nice  ...everytime this man post I does get either a current events,sociological or history lesson

Had no idea aristide was movin dread like Idi Amin.....but I bet it have way more layers to that story

anyway back to de football