Cops News Thread.

[mukumsplau]

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Hakeem-Tevin-not-so-innocent-says-resident-262825471.html

Hakeem, Tevin not so innocent, says resident
By Gyasi Gonzales
Story Created: Jun 12, 2014 at 3:28 AM ECT
Story Updated: Jun 12, 2014 at 3:28 AM ECT

A Morvant man has come forward claiming teenage cousins Hakeem and Tevin Alexander were not as innocent as they seem and were robbing people.

And some startling details have emerged on perusing the Facebook pages of the Morvant teenagers who were killed by police on Monday.
Hakeem, 16, a Carifta Games medallist and Tevin, 15, were killed in the Chinapoo area in Morvant when officers of the Inter Agency Task Force (IATF) and North Eastern Division Task Force (NEDTF) responded to reports of shootings in the area.
Police said when they arrived they were greeted with gunfire and they responded. The cousins were shot and taken to the Port of Spain General Hospital where they were pronounced dead on arrival.

Three other suspects were arrested and two guns were seized near the scene, police said.
Relatives and friends of the cousins have claimed that they were kneeling with their hands upraised when they were shot by the police.
In an interview last night by Insp Roger Alexander of the CCN TV6 programme, Beyond the Tape a man alleged that the two boys were about to kill him and it was the police in fact who saved his life.

He said, “we were up (in Chinapoo, Morvant) on a project. These four young men were liming around (he included both Hakeem and Tevin in the four).
He said, “after they went into a house and they were plotting and while I stand up now, one run up the road and after a while I saw another one run out the bush. I said it’s a policeman with a shotgun”.

He said by this time he ran into a nearby drain and took cover during which time the two teenagers and two other young men were looking for him. He said after a while he jumped out of the drain and he ended up in someone’s front porch where he was confronted by the four young men.

“I start to struggle with four of them in the gallery and one of them had a 28 (.28 pistol) and a pump (pump action shotgun) and while I was scuffling I end up getting a gun butt in my head and I end up running further in people house and a man ended up bracing me and he told me that he don’t want that in here,” he said.

The man said he remained in the house and he heard the four firing shots on the road.
The man was asked if he remembered his attackers and he replied, “yes, Hakeem the one who die and I don’t know the next one name.”

He added, “listen I identify the people that tried to shoot me and after the incident with me they ran up Zion Hill and then they got caught up with the police.”

He said, “to those who paint a picture of them boys as good I would say they are encouragers. They father can’t control them and they mother can’t control them and they was robbing people and they doing all kinds of unjust things in the village.”

[D.H.W]

And now the other side of the story comes out. Don't be so quick to cry down the police. It have good and bad everywhere

[D.H.W]

Mommy nice child

[Toppa]

Look at them little children nah. Smh

"He was a good boy! Never in no trouble! Look how police kill mih chile!"

[Socapro]

And now the other side of the story comes out. Don't be so quick to cry down the police. It have good and bad everywhere

If the other side is true that still does not justify the police shooting them dead if they did try to give themselves up. However if they were firing at the police then the police do have the right to defend themselves and so the cousins would have gotten what was coming to them.

What we need to establish now is if they were actually stupid and crazy enough to fire at the police and where are the guns that they were firing (evidence)?
Also there should have been evidence of them firing bullets at the police with gun power on their hands, etc.

[Agent Jack Bauer]

And now the other side of the story comes out. Don't be so quick to cry down the police. It have good and bad everywhere

If the other side is true that still does not justify the police shooting them dead if they did try to give themselves up. However if they were firing at the police then the police do have the right to defend themselves and so the cousins would have gotten what was coming to them.

What we need to establish now is if they were actually stupid and crazy enough to fire at the police and where are the guns that they were firing (evidence)?
Also there should have been evidence of them firing bullets at the police with gun power on their hands, etc.

take win wit dat avatar.........makes sense.....just need d odder 2 tuh go wit dem

[congo]

Not to make excuses but that is easily what any facebook profile of someone around that age living in that area. It's not their fault that they've been conditioned to look up to that sort of life. Our radio stations haven't stopped supporting vybz kartel music/ songs even though he has been convicted for a heinous murder. We are a very hypocritical society.

[Socapro]

Not to make excuses but that is easily what any facebook profile of someone around that age living in that area. It's not their fault that they've been conditioned to look up to that sort of life. Our radio stations haven't stopped supporting vybz kartel music/ songs even though he has been convicted for a heinous murder. We are a very hypocritical society.

Good point.

[congo]

I think our police officers need better training. Saw the boys bodies on Ian Alleyne's show on tv. One of the boys had multiple wounds. Even if the police are moving in multiple teams I don't think that every police officer should get a shot off. It's amazing that police in a country like England can be responding to reports of a british soldier being beheaded by Islamic terrorists and still display restraint to subdue the perpetrators without resorting to lethal force. That is amazing policing.

[Tiresais]

I think our police officers need better training. Saw the boys bodies on Ian Alleyne's show on tv. One of the boys had multiple wounds. Even if the police are moving in multiple teams I don't think that every police officer should get a shot off. It's amazing that police in a country like England can be responding to reports of a british soldier being beheaded by Islamic terrorists and still display restraint to subdue the perpetrators without resorting to lethal force. That is amazing policing.

It helps to have an unarmed police force - one one side is armed an inevitable arms race begins. If police had guns as a standard equipment we'd have death rates similar to other countries - that's one of the reasons the police in the UK continually vote and argue against arming themselves

[Tiresais]

And now the other side of the story comes out. Don't be so quick to cry down the police. It have good and bad everywhere

If the other side is true that still does not justify the police shooting them dead if they did try to give themselves up. However if they were firing at the police then the police do have the right to defend themselves and so the cousins would have gotten what was coming to them.

What we need to establish now is if they were actually stupid and crazy enough to fire at the police and where are the guns that they were firing (evidence)?
Also there should have been evidence of them firing bullets at the police with gun power on their hands, etc.

You show the discretion you decided not to employ earlier in the topic - why did you jump to the boys' defence initially? Be honest, was it really because they were successful athletes?

[100% Barataria]

Bigger problem here is how two young boys end up glorifying and pursuing this lifestyle, mommy working many hours and not home, who are the role models in the family and community at large.  Arguing that police were justified for shooting them as they possessed weapons and shot at police completely ignores the bigger issues at hand namely the complete breakdown in the family structure and surrounding community.

[Socapro]

And now the other side of the story comes out. Don't be so quick to cry down the police. It have good and bad everywhere

If the other side is true that still does not justify the police shooting them dead if they did try to give themselves up. However if they were firing at the police then the police do have the right to defend themselves and so the cousins would have gotten what was coming to them.

What we need to establish now is if they were actually stupid and crazy enough to fire at the police and where are the guns that they were firing (evidence)?
Also there should have been evidence of them firing bullets at the police with gun power on their hands, etc.

You show the discretion you decided not to employ earlier in the topic - why did you jump to the boys' defence initially? Be honest, was it really because they were successful athletes?

It was simply to do with eye-witness reports from neighabours who were interviewed and said they saw the boys giving themselves up and that they were shot while pleading for their lives. To me that amounts to cold-blooded murder which has nothing to do with their background.

We still haven't established if the boys fired on the police but if they did then I am in full support of the police defending themselves even though it would have been way better for them to maimed rather than to be shot dead by multiple bullets as they were.

Now please stop being so presumptuous and always trying to project your way of thinking onto me.

[Socapro]

Bigger problem here is how two young boys end up glorifying and pursuing this lifestyle, mommy working many hours and not home, who are the role models in the family and community at large.  Arguing that police were justified for shooting them as they possessed weapons and shot at police completely ignores the bigger issues at hand namely the complete breakdown in the family structure and surrounding community.

Good question.
If you read the newspaper article that I posted in Reply #23 of this thread you will see that Hakeem Alexander worked with his father Henry Alexander at Peake’s Marine in Chaguaramas. So it seems that both Hakeem's parents were there in his home and should have been able to look out for and guide him.
Maybe Hakeen's parents were both these soft modern style liberal parents who didn't believe in using corporal punishment as a tool to help keep their children in check when they were not listening, who knows?

It also seems that Hakeem's cousin Tevin Alexander at least had his mother around and both cousins spent a lot of time together going between each other's houses and probably looked out for each other.

[soccerman]

Bigger problem here is how two young boys end up glorifying and pursuing this lifestyle, mommy working many hours and not home, who are the role models in the family and community at large.  Arguing that police were justified for shooting them as they possessed weapons and shot at police completely ignores the bigger issues at hand namely the complete breakdown in the family structure and surrounding

Well this was supposed to be an aspiring track athlete and though we haven't seen all his fb photo's, I've yet to see one with a track star he looks up to or anything. We can clearly see the path he was choosing.

[Tiresais]

And now the other side of the story comes out. Don't be so quick to cry down the police. It have good and bad everywhere

If the other side is true that still does not justify the police shooting them dead if they did try to give themselves up. However if they were firing at the police then the police do have the right to defend themselves and so the cousins would have gotten what was coming to them.

What we need to establish now is if they were actually stupid and crazy enough to fire at the police and where are the guns that they were firing (evidence)?
Also there should have been evidence of them firing bullets at the police with gun power on their hands, etc.

You show the discretion you decided not to employ earlier in the topic - why did you jump to the boys' defence initially? Be honest, was it really because they were successful athletes?

It was simply to do with eye-witness reports from neighabours who were interviewed and said they saw the boys giving themselves up and that they were shot while pleading for their lives. To me that amounts to cold-blooded murder which has nothing to do with their background.

We still haven't established if the boys fired on the police but if they did then I am in full support of the police defending themselves even though it would have been way better for them to maimed rather than to be shot dead by multiple bullets as they were.

Now please stop being so presumptuous and always trying to project your way of thinking onto me.

Come now that's not fair - your posts emphasised the athletic success when showing your concern for their deaths, and I don't think that's relevant to the guilt or otherwise. Your initial posts disregarded the police's position;

Where you got that bogus information from Toppa, from the police accounts?
The police are trying to cover up their crime. The boys had no guns and fired on no one, rather they were the ones who were fired upon while going about their business

And later in that post mentioned;

And this is the brutality against young Black boys one of who represented our country and made us proud by winning a bronze medal at the Carifta games.

I don't want to make this an inquisition or anything, but you're right to pull me up on what I'm doing - drawing parallels between this and other topics where you have taken sources without a critical eye. I'm not the only one in the thread who felt that you were letting their athletic ability cloud your judgement here.

Either way we both agree that the death of kids of that age is always a sadness and a sad indictment of the times.

[Socapro]

And now the other side of the story comes out. Don't be so quick to cry down the police. It have good and bad everywhere

If the other side is true that still does not justify the police shooting them dead if they did try to give themselves up. However if they were firing at the police then the police do have the right to defend themselves and so the cousins would have gotten what was coming to them.

What we need to establish now is if they were actually stupid and crazy enough to fire at the police and where are the guns that they were firing (evidence)?
Also there should have been evidence of them firing bullets at the police with gun power on their hands, etc.

You show the discretion you decided not to employ earlier in the topic - why did you jump to the boys' defence initially? Be honest, was it really because they were successful athletes?

It was simply to do with eye-witness reports from neighabours who were interviewed and said they saw the boys giving themselves up and that they were shot while pleading for their lives. To me that amounts to cold-blooded murder which has nothing to do with their background.

We still haven't established if the boys fired on the police but if they did then I am in full support of the police defending themselves even though it would have been way better for them to maimed rather than to be shot dead by multiple bullets as they were.

Now please stop being so presumptuous and always trying to project your way of thinking onto me.

Come now that's not fair - your posts emphasised the athletic success when showing your concern for their deaths, and I don't think that's relevant to the guilt or otherwise. Your initial posts disregarded the police's position;

Where you got that bogus information from Toppa, from the police accounts?
The police are trying to cover up their crime. The boys had no guns and fired on no one, rather they were the ones who were fired upon while going about their business

And later in that post mentioned;

And this is the brutality against young Black boys one of who represented our country and made us proud by winning a bronze medal at the Carifta games.

I don't want to make this an inquisition or anything, but you're right to pull me up on what I'm doing - drawing parallels between this and other topics where you have taken sources without a critical eye. [b]I'm not the only one in the thread who felt that you were letting their athletic ability cloud your judgement here.[/b]

Either way we both agree that the death of kids of that age is always a sadness and a sad indictment of the times.

I simply believed the account of the residents because I am intelligent enough to realise that the police are not angles, okay?!

Now please stop projecting and trying to have childish ego-tripping arguments that are a complete waste of my time.

Its World Cup and my two favourite European teams Spain and Holland are about to face each other.

PS:
Btw only one of the cousins Hakeem Alexander was a track & field athlete. The younger one Tevin Alexander was still at school and was reported to a very talented at IT and also a good midfield footballer.
What a waste!

[Tiresais]

I simply believed the account of the residents because I am intelligent enough to realise that the police are not angles, okay?!

Now please stop projecting and trying to have childish ego-tripping arguments that are a complete waste of my time.

Its World Cup and my two favourite European teams Spain and Holland are about to face each other.

No need to get offended, enjoy the game.

[futbolfan]

Bigger problem here is how two young boys end up glorifying and pursuing this lifestyle, mommy working many hours and not home, who are the role models in the family and community at large.  Arguing that police were justified for shooting them as they possessed weapons and shot at police completely ignores the bigger issues at hand namely the complete breakdown in the family structure and surrounding community.

Great points! I believe that both society and family failed to do their parts in nurturing this young man. From his parents down to both his regional and national track coaches. I guarantee that they all knew about his lifestyle and no one intervened.
He won a medal, everybody celebrate and jump up while his criminal activities never ceased. He had potential and  someone should have stepped in,not sure who but if they did, he could have possibly been alive today.

[Toppa]

Bigger problem here is how two young boys end up glorifying and pursuing this lifestyle, mommy working many hours and not home, who are the role models in the family and community at large.  Arguing that police were justified for shooting them as they possessed weapons and shot at police completely ignores the bigger issues at hand namely the complete breakdown in the family structure and surrounding community.

My mother was just telling me - she knows Hakeem's uncle - that his father used to try with him and was taking him to work with him n ting. And apparently one of the boys had been expelled from school. The other one father, when he heard his son wasn't in school was just going up the road to beat him. So it sounds like what a neighbour said in the article about the parents talking to them and trying with them was true. Hakeem, his father would take him to work with him but he used to want to leave and go so they could terrorise people, beat people, rob them. That was their M.O. and they clearly made their choice.

[Socapro]

Bigger problem here is how two young boys end up glorifying and pursuing this lifestyle, mommy working many hours and not home, who are the role models in the family and community at large.  Arguing that police were justified for shooting them as they possessed weapons and shot at police completely ignores the bigger issues at hand namely the complete breakdown in the family structure and surrounding

Well this was supposed to be an aspiring track athlete and though we haven't seen all his fb photo's, I've yet to see one with a track star he looks up to or anything. We can clearly see the path he was choosing.

Just to let you know that Hakeem Alexander does have Kirani James on his facebook page which you can see as soon as you log onto his facebook page. He also described himself as Hakeem Trackstar Alexander on his facebook page which also promotes his interest in track. Check this link: https://www.facebook.com/killerhakeem

It also seems that Hakeem & Tevin Alexander may have been recruited into a gang/group calling themselves RASTA based upon the fact that he has that name as the background to his facebook profile picture.

I hope that the police do some investigations into curbing the influence of youngsters joining that gang/group without necessarily having to kill any more young members who may have joined as it may save more young talented lives like those of cousins Hakeem & Tevin Alexander.

[MEP]

While I don't support the manner in which the TTPS go about doing things it is ironic that anytime a youth gets shot by the police there are always eyewitnesses yet with other murders no one ever sees anything. The saddest thing about those pics is that no one is commenting on who is bringing in those guns and making it readily available.

[Socapro]

While I don't support the manner in which the TTPS go about doing things it is ironic that anytime a youth gets shot by the police there are always eyewitnesses yet with other murders no one ever sees anything. The saddest thing about those pics is that no one is commenting on who is bringing in those guns and making it readily available.

You need to tune into The Street 91.9FM (http://tunein.com/radio/The-Street-919-s88618/) as the presenters and callers speak to that issue almost daily.

[ZANDOLIE]

Dottin: Gangs putting teens on battlefront
Published: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 (T&T Guardian)

Seventh Day Adventist pastor Clive Dottin, who does outreach work in communities such as Laventille and Morvant, said yesterday it was known those areas were recruiting grounds for gang leaders. “The country must face the fact that adult gang leaders are recruiting teenagers and putting them on the battlefront,” Dottin told the T&T Guardian in a telephone interview. “They are doing a phenomenal job recruiting teens. It should be of great concern to all of us in society,” he added.
 
Dottin said the issue spoke to a collapse of parenting and family in society, adding unless these issues are fixed the fight against crime will not be won. Meanwhile, Inspector Roger Alexander, head of the North Eastern Division task Force (NEDTF) and vice-president of the Police Social and Welfare Association, said he was disturbed by media reports his men had murdered the cousins.
 
Speaking on Beyond the Tape programme, he said when the media visited the area on Monday they spoke to the relatives of the cousins but failed to speak with the victims he claimed the cousins had earlier terrorised. Asked about the accusations the officers were excessive, Alexander said: “How can a team be acting in an excessive way when all they doing is protecting their lives, the lives of the public and their colleagues.
 
“The public must understand if we worked in places like Westmoorings we would never have any confrontation. ”We work in a place known to be a hotspot, where people are aggressive towards the police and are encouraged to be aggressive towards the police, yet you want us to be like, ‘good morning do you have a gun in the bush? Would you stop shooting at us please.’”
 

Bang on correct. many people's understanding of this problem is based on the outdated paradigm of the 'bad children' model. These youths are not working for or by themselves. Only a very exceptional 14-17 year old who could organize a coordinated system of robbery and killings  from scratch. Most of these boys are working under the command/blessings/orders of older experienced ringleaders who are all too happy to remain in the background out of the public eye.

as for this nonsense about how a good cutarse could save these youths...by the time these master manipulators rope in the kids and overtake their parents as the most influential people in their lives no amount of cutarse could stabilize them. in fact they may even make it clear to the children that if they don't stay with the program their parents, siblings, cousins, friends, (not to mention their own) lives will be forfeit.

pastor dottin know what he is talking about. in areas where there is poverty, violence, crime, lack of opportunity, etc. these teenagers are very susceptible to being 'fished' by gangs. a lot of parents are no match for gang recruiters when it comes to understanding the need for these youth to have peer approval, be held in esteem in the community, or even a misguided sense that they helping their family by brining in income. some of these f**kers establish relationships with youths years before they get them to do hard crime. often its their own trusted big brothers or cousins that roping them into a life of crime.

as far as the family issue, there should be a widespread initivative to educate parents about child development and the ways gangsters approach and build trust in youths. but that likely will lead to nothing as black people seem very unwilling/afraid to let go the traditional way of doing things.

[MEP]

While I don't support the manner in which the TTPS go about doing things it is ironic that anytime a youth gets shot by the police there are always eyewitnesses yet with other murders no one ever sees anything. The saddest thing about those pics is that no one is commenting on who is bringing in those guns and making it readily available.

You need to tune into The Street 91.9FM (http://tunein.com/radio/The-Street-919-s88618/) as the presenters and callers speak to that issue almost daily.

can't listen to that station for too long. Some of the presenters are not journalists and are definitely not well read so that you end up  hearing the regurgitation of someone else's thoughts other than the presenter.

[Controversial]

i blame the parents or single mother who actually allowed her children to fall into that trap, also the absent father is if it s single parent home...

they should listen to more soca and calypso, it might get them in a better state of mind... these youths being influenced by music shows their lack of intelligence and ability to think for themselves and also the insecurity in their lives bc of the lack of attention and discipline.. easily manipulated... especially if there isn't a a father figure in the picture, real sad...

[futbolfan]

i blame the parents or single mother who actually allowed her children to fall into that trap, also the absent father is if it s single parent home...

they should listen to more soca and calypso, it might get them in a better state of mind... these youths being influenced by music shows their lack of intelligence and ability to think for themselves and also the insecurity in their lives bc of the lack of attention and discipline.. easily manipulated... especially if there isn't a a father figure in the picture, real sad...

In this case the young man who died had both of his parents involved in his life. Unfortunately they were not able to keep him away from the negative elements that have made major inroads in those areas.

Secondly the notion that somehow soca music has a mystical power which can influence people not to commit  acts of lawlessness is ridiculous.
In the 60's and 70's people did not listen to Vybz Kartel or Movado, but although it was not to the extent that it is today, their was always that element of crime in certain areas of the country. Most notably your family's old stomping ground the 'EDR'

Back in the day when Catelli and Despers clashed downtown on an annual basis for no other reason than to mark their territory. Were they not listening/playing calypso? The only difference was that they did not use any guns as bottles, stones and cutlasses were the order of the day.
In those times alot of pan men were hardened criminals who would rob people at will.

I am not saying that music does not influence today's youth, but I believe it is much deeper than a few choruses and notes.
I do think politics has had a major impact on the downward spiral of our society. For instance, why is it that  areas with a certain demographic that were deemed hotspots umpteen years ago are still crime ridden. It is as if society has washed hands and turned their backs on these areas...
Sad state of affairs...
 

[Deeks]

Actually in the late 60s, steelband music, calypso and the 60s "peace and love" did more to bring EDR together. Dude I lived  up Quarry street for about 4 yrs. Yes, "badjonism" is an EDR phenomena. I could have gone Nelson st. or John-John, Success and not have to worry about some punk looking to buss meh up. The real cause of East POS decay is jobs and opportunities to sustain the family. Port work shrink due to containerization. Neal Massey, Coconut Growers, Orange Juice factory, garment factories. Either they close down or drastically shrink the work force. There are no major industries in the EW corridors. Everything either Central or South. The people of EDR  and East POS never, never adjusted. Well those who were smart or lucky, moved out or come up canada or Stateside. The socalled Black intellegentsia never created any business portfolio to support their own. Like the other groups in the country. They preferred to wuk for the government, because they were thought to believe the government was theirs. Full friggin. stop!

[Socapro]

While I don't support the manner in which the TTPS go about doing things it is ironic that anytime a youth gets shot by the police there are always eyewitnesses yet with other murders no one ever sees anything. The saddest thing about those pics is that no one is commenting on who is bringing in those guns and making it readily available.

You need to tune into The Street 91.9FM (http://tunein.com/radio/The-Street-919-s88618/) as the presenters and callers speak to that issue almost daily.

can't listen to that station for too long. Some of the presenters are not journalists and are definitely not well read so that you end up  hearing the regurgitation of someone else's thoughts other than the presenter.

Strongly disagree.

I would say that Street is the most democratic station in T&T right now where callers are actually allowed to speak their mind and give their points of view on all the current issues affecting the country.
I have listened to most of the other stations with chat shows in T&T where the callers are not generally allowed to speak their mind on certain topics because of politics.

The behaviour that you speak of by presenters and callers I more regularly hear on Power 102.1FM and I must agree that after a while it becomes boring and predictable.

[Socapro]

Actually in the late 60s, steelband music, calypso and the 60s "peace and love" did more to bring EDR together. Dude I lived  up Quarry street for about 4 yrs. Yes, "badjonism" is an EDR phenomena. I could have gone Nelson st. or John-John, Success and not have to worry about some punk looking to buss meh up. The real cause of East POS decay is jobs and opportunities to sustain the family. Port work shrink due to containerization. Neal Massey, Coconut Growers, Orange Juice factory, garment factories. Either they close down or drastically shrink the work force. There are no major industries in the EW corridors. Everything either Central or South. The people of EDR  and East POS never, never adjusted. Well those who were smart or lucky, moved out or come up canada or Stateside. The socalled Black intellegentsia never created any business portfolio to support their own. Like the other groups in the country. They preferred to wuk for the government, because they were thought to believe the government was theirs. Full friggin. stop!

Move to the head of the class!