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Author Topic: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?  (Read 8118 times)

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Offline NYtriniwhiteboy..

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2007, 10:10:18 PM »
P de whole problem is your last sentence.. It real hard for people to talk on that topic rationally. As soon as yuh disagree with someone and call them out on homophobic opinions, it seems rationale is thrown out the window and the personal attacks begin.
I all for freedom of speech, cuz as u said censorship is a helluva slippery slope, responsibility is key. But sadly that too gets thrown out the window along with any rationale.
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Offline cocoapanyol

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2007, 10:14:53 PM »
maybe dem
i was genuinely trying to understand where de hate coming from ... but never got a rationale answer.




I don't think you will every get a answer certainly not from the individuals who are exhibiting that level of hate.  How can you really?  Will they say, I hate homosexuals because one interfere wid meh or meh family? or I hate homosexuals because meh parents teach meh too? or I hate homosexuals because ah doh understand dem so what ah doh understand ah hate?  Who will actually admit to that.  Someone posted a comment about the reason they are hated in Jamaica is because there aren't enough gays to go around so they interfere with little boys.  By that anaology, all homosexuals are pedophiles.  Given that women outnumber men and we live in a society which hold monogamy above all else, so one man to one woman, where does that leave all the extra women, straight or otherwise.  Interfering with little boys and girls too?  So you see...to me, there is NO rationale behind that hate and I can't see you ever getting  a rational asnwer.
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Offline Quags

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2007, 10:45:10 PM »
maybe dem boys were jess doing some internet trolling and now dey laughin de belly off watching de fall out.

i was genuinely trying to understand where de hate coming from ... but never got a rationale answer.

Freedom of speech was cited as a reason for expressing their opinions.

We need a free press .. we need freedom of speech .. BUT with that come a responsibility .. If yuh want to shout Freedom of Speech, den you have a responsibility to use it wisely.

Dutty used the example  of shouting "Fire" in a crowded place when a fire doh exist.  De person who do that is not acting responsibly.  And eventually, I hope that society will self-regulate dem.

As far as de checks and balances, DCS say we have the Forum Rules and the mods to regulate.  Agreed, I doh want to hit dat slipery slope when threads get deleted to appease people who get offended.  De reason why i reacted de way I did was to understand de reason for de apparent hate.

So i decided to speak up and make an issue of it.  I could have ignored it and let it pass.  But at least dese people know my views .... de same way I know their views.

If anybody call me self righteous (sorry Coco), den I will argue I am no more self righteous dan de people who have a different opinion and speak dere minds.

Freedom of Speech is not one-sided. 

State your opinion, but doh get vex and try to shut down de debate when somebody disagrees and challenge yuh.








Leh meh show yah ah vibes ,you guys from a different generation alyah ah little older heads .Daiz cool ,I lime with plenty from that generation ,no scene .But ting is alyah miss out sumting i.e the 90's ,and all the hip hop and reggea that came out of that decade lol . Trust me this homo ting is just just one ting we could say "which would be  normal and funny to us that will completely piss you ppl off  :rotfl: e.g quoting any of the songs ,from my avatars 1'st album lol .To us is nutting but ah G ting baby lol .

Offline Organic

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2007, 10:56:40 PM »
maybe dem boys were jess doing some internet trolling and now dey laughin de belly off watching de fall out.

i was genuinely trying to understand where de hate coming from ... but never got a rationale answer.

Freedom of speech was cited as a reason for expressing their opinions.

We need a free press .. we need freedom of speech .. BUT with that come a responsibility .. If yuh want to shout Freedom of Speech, den you have a responsibility to use it wisely.

Dutty used the example  of shouting "Fire" in a crowded place when a fire doh exist.  De person who do that is not acting responsibly.  And eventually, I hope that society will self-regulate dem.

As far as de checks and balances, DCS say we have the Forum Rules and the mods to regulate.  Agreed, I doh want to hit dat slipery slope when threads get deleted to appease people who get offended.  De reason why i reacted de way I did was to understand de reason for de apparent hate.

So i decided to speak up and make an issue of it.  I could have ignored it and let it pass.  But at least dese people know my views .... de same way I know their views.

If anybody call me self righteous (sorry Coco), den I will argue I am no more self righteous dan de people who have a different opinion and speak dere minds.

Freedom of Speech is not one-sided. 

State your opinion, but doh get vex and try to shut down de debate when somebody disagrees and challenge yuh.








Leh meh show yah ah vibes ,you guys from a different generation alyah ah little older heads .Daiz cool ,I lime with plenty from that generation ,no scene .But ting is alyah miss out sumting i.e the 90's ,and all the hip hop and reggea that came out of that decade lol . Trust me this homo ting is just just one ting we could say "which would be  normal and funny to us that will completely piss you ppl off  :rotfl: e.g quoting any of the songs ,from my avatars 1'st album lol .To us is nutting but ah G ting baby lol .

i think i was around for d e 90's and i barely understand what u jus write they bro. ( now i eh talking cause i know i eh de easiest one to understand ) but que?
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Offline Quags

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2007, 11:02:26 PM »
Go and sleep on it ,try and figure it out ah guess is high science .

Offline dcs

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2007, 07:47:06 AM »

Hoe outta touch  8)

Offline Organic

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2007, 09:15:27 AM »
Go and sleep on it ,try and figure it out ah guess is high science .
steupsssssssss meh pt is....in pecan and ddem older heads days(the 70s notwithstanding) homosexuality was anathema. so is not like we generation come up with that vibes. dem jamacians just put it in song. i guess before people just never use to sing about it. that reagge music revolution had alot of people singin about previouly taboo subjects.
 i think
Perhaps the epitome of a Trinidadian is the child in the third row class with a dark skin and crinkly plaits who looks at you out of decidedly Chinese eyes and announces herself as Jacqueline Maharaj.- Merle Hodge

Offline ribbit

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2007, 11:29:06 AM »
i think dem that made freedom of speech a right didn't akcnowledge that it is also an ideal. and it is a lofty ideal that we can approach but never really reach because we are flawed - irresponsible, biased, etc.  so i not getting tie up thinking that freedom of speech is something we have or should have when it isn't and hasn't ever been the case.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 11:48:29 AM by ribbit »

Offline cocoapanyol

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2007, 02:26:16 PM »

If anybody call me self righteous (sorry Coco), den I will argue I am no more self righteous dan de people who have a different opinion and speak dere minds.



No apology needed man. I doh mind being in dat company wid yuh.  I does feel privilege when people pelt dem kinda name behind meh.
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Offline dcs

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Politically Correct Canada
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2007, 12:59:28 PM »
Trinidad & Tobago Newsday
Sunday, February 25 2007
Free to conform
DONNA YAWCHING


Two columns back, I started dissecting the idea of the True North (Canada) being “Strong and Free”, as proclaimed in the national anthem.

Rather like Discipline, Production and Tolerance (our own national farce), this slogan may be more a matter of words than reality. I’ve already mused on whether the declaration of Quebec as a “nation” is an indication that the “Strong” is developing hairline cracks; today I wonder: How “Free” is Canada, below all the rhetoric?

Currently, there are about 2,500 Canadian troops in Afghanistan, fighting America’s war. When anyone asks why they’re there, the answer is invariably: “To bring freedom to that poor unfortunate country.” (No-one bothers to add: “whether they like it or not.”)

But while Canadians are busy fighting for freedom in someone else’s country, few here seem to recognise — and even fewer would dare to state — that freedom, of speech and opinion at least, is fast becoming an endangered species. Constricted by ever more boundaries and limits, many of them having to do with political correctness, free speech is something you can only practice if it’s in tandem with mainstream opinion. Otherwise you’re in for trouble.

I’ve been collecting examples of this for several months now, and I’m amazed at what a wide spectrum they cover — everything from hockey teams to universities, politicians to reporters. It’s a creeping disease, and everyone is so busy feeling noble that they don’t even recognise the irony.

Consider the following: just before Christmas, a junior league hockey team coach decided it would be a nice gesture to have all his members sign a Canadian flag, to be sent to the soldiers in Afghanistan. Heartwarming and patriotic. Except that one player, evidently a conscientious objector to the war (and there are some), refused to sign. He was fired. So much for freedom of opinion. The coach must be an admirer of George W Bush.

At the intellectual end of the spectrum, things are no better. Last year, Ryerson University decided to award an honorary doctorate to an eminent historian. Everything was tea and cupcakes until it was brought to the university’s attention that the historian had previously expressed her personal opposition to gay marriage.

Such a stance would probably win cheers in TT; but Canada is righteously proud of being one of the first countries to legalise gay marriage. The historian had nothing against gays, per se; she just held certain ideas as to what constituted marriage. This had nothing whatsoever to do with her academic achievements; nevertheless, the university administration went into a tizzy, and for a while there was talk of withholding the award. Surely, in the intellectual community (if nowhere else), individual opinions should be tolerated.

Not necessarily, as another academic, this time in Nova Scotia, discovered. This political science professor accepted an invitation to deliver a paper at a Holocaust conference in Iran, whose president has declared the Holocaust to be a “myth”. The professor, who is by no means a Holocaust denier, saw no reason to decline; he viewed it as an academic exercise. But on his return he came in for serious censure from his colleagues and superiors. Freedom of expression stops, apparently, when it is deemed offensive to Jews.

And no, that’s not an anti-Semitic snipe on my part; it’s an issue that’s cropping up repeatedly. Recently, the Ontario teacher’s union announced it would debate at an upcoming meeting whether its members should condemn, in their classrooms, the Israeli treatment of Palestinians. The outraged response from Jewish lobby groups was described as “intimidating”; the motion quickly fizzled.

And Michael Ignatieff, a front-running candidate for the leadership of the Liberal party, saw his momentum stop dead when he was stupid enough to state aloud what every reasonable person already knew: that Israel’s attack on Lebanon last summer was a “war crime”.

His (presumably Jewish) campaign leader resigned; and he spent the rest of the campaign retracting, explaining, and attempting (unsuccessfully) to do damage control. That gaffe probably cost him the leadership; he came in second. The irony is that previously, he had antagonised the Muslim constituency by taking the opposite stance. For a would-be politician, the only safe place is silence — or equivocation.

Nor is this de facto silencing happening only at elevated levels. A high-school student, visiting the Governor General’s residence last year on a school trip, happened to criticise the then GG aloud — and found himself, and his classmates, summarily ejected. Last week, a group of teens who used the Internet to diss their principal, were suspended for several days. The school board, unbelievably, called it “cyber -bullying”.

The arts aren’t exempt, either. A respected freelance photographer who voiced mild criticism of the prime minister during the Lebanon crisis was later denied access to do a professional job at the PM’s residence. And closer to home, a friend of mine, also a photographer, attempted to mount an exhibition that focused on a municipal controversy — and found herself mysteriously blocked from using the local community centre that had previously agreed to host it.

A nearby arts cafe agreed to hang her prints — then just as mysteriously reneged. She eventually managed to show in a neighbourhood restaurant; but not before learning a lesson that was both illuminating and disillusioning.

That lesson again? That in this society, you’d better go with the flow — or the flow will certainly go against you. It makes one almost nostalgic for the unfettered free speech of TT, even at its outrageous worst.

Offline pecan

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2007, 01:54:48 PM »
Interesting article with a lot of potential .

But too bad the author allowed her personal biases to creep into her arguments.

The arguments would have been stronger had she refrained from comments or phrases such as:

1) (No-one bothers to add: “whether they like it or not.”) - this comment clearly displays her feeling about the war and hence weakens her hypothesis regrading "freedom".

2) "But while Canadians are busy fighting for freedom in someone else’s country" - again, we know where she stands on the war.

3)  "Canada is righteously proud" - again, biases on display

4) "...what every reasonable person already knew: that Israel’s attack on Lebanon last summer was a “war crime”. - I guess I am not reasonable since i disagreed with this conclusion.

5) "The school board, unbelievably," - again, disdain for people who do not agree with her,

6) "That lesson again? That in this society, you’d better go with the flow — or the flow will certainly go against you. It makes one almost nostalgic for the unfettered free speech of TT, even at its outrageous worst."  Again, a conclusion that many people would disagree with ....


I hear what she is trying to state that in this day of political correctness, freedom of speech sometimes get lost.  And in this regards, I agree.  However, I disagree with her final conclusion about the lesson learned. 

"That lesson again? That in this society, you’d better go with the flow — or the flow will certainly go against you" - speech used in a responsible fashion can be very strong indeed.  However, lets recognize that when one use speech to voice emotion, the outcome may not be what you want.




Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline dcs

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2007, 02:14:46 PM »

I see what you saying but I don't think letting her opinions colour her statements weakens her points at all.  It sorta reinforces that she wants to state her opinion without having to be politically correct worrying about who aggrees/disagrees with her biases or opinions.

Is one thing to tell someone u think their view is foolish and is another when institutions get involved.  So for me I don't take issue with throwing her opinions in the mix.

Offline pecan

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2007, 02:27:22 PM »
It does not weaken her points to those who already agree with her on are already leaning to her position.

But for those who do not agree with her, I am speculating that her arguments will be dismissed.  So if she is trying to convince non-believers, she will be unlikely in achieving her goal.

If on the other hand she is rallying those who agree with her, then her arguments carry weight since she is preaching to the converted.

DCS, You can quickly test my argument by letting me know if you agree or disagree with the general tone of her column.


If you disagree with her tone, then you jess proved me wrong as you implied that her opinion helps her argument and I stand corrected.

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline dcs

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2007, 02:54:07 PM »

Well if she reversed her bias on all the things presented I would still see where she coming from...and I believe so would you.  The examples were all actual incidents and he bias on them really doesn't matter if u able/willing to focus on the main point.

Is definitely not a diplomatic piece really...but I don't think she is trying to sway opinion in Canada...more like giving her judgment on Freedom of Speech in Canada to Trinis who may care more about the reactions in the examples more than anything....kinda like appreciate that you can make outrageous statements at home without as much fear of institutional reprisal.

Of course yuh cud argue about that lack of institutional reprisal in T&T (e.g. Insham) but for the most part political correctness doesn't strangle T&T like other places (IMHO).  So I share her view on the main point of the article but indifferent to the examples.

Offline pecan

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2007, 03:29:55 PM »

Well if she reversed her bias on all the things presented I would still see where she coming from...and I believe so would you.  The examples were all actual incidents and he bias on them really doesn't matter if u able/willing to focus on the main point.

Is definitely not a diplomatic piece really...but I don't think she is trying to sway opinion in Canada...more like giving her judgment on Freedom of Speech in Canada to Trinis who may care more about the reactions in the examples more than anything....kinda like appreciate that you can make outrageous statements at home without as much fear of institutional reprisal.

Of course yuh cud argue about that lack of institutional reprisal in T&T (e.g. Insham) but for the most part political correctness doesn't strangle T&T like other places (IMHO).  So I share her view on the main point of the article but indifferent to the examples.

Ok . .what you say makes a lot of sense .. and you have made me revisit the examples.

I have my own biases and when dey get tweaked (like dey did when I read her examples), I sumtimes jump de gun an miss de main point of somebody's  argument.

I agree with her thesis that Political Correctness is a problem, but I doh agree with her conclusion. 

My original conclusion was influenced by the differences in bias btw the author and myself. 

But I do not think that the examples are representative of the state of things and I do not think we have the full story behind the examples - we have what the media chooses to report and to sensationalize ...if she right, den Canada in fuh big trouble but I trust saner heads will eventually rule as we examine the weaknesses of a politically correct society.

Nevertheless, I am going to restrain my knee jerk reaction and read tings twice before I come to any conclusion.  But sometime, dat real hard to do. :-\

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline dcs

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2007, 01:04:04 AM »

I came across something with the freedom of speech after this catch meh attention:
"This week a friend sent me a song referring to Ashley Cole as a "Chelsea batty-boy."   :rotfl:

I cud put it in a certain other thread but I go let that one sleep   :devil:

GO read the comments at the end of the article on the webpage itself too...gives more perspectives.
The environment is a college campus and freedom to make certain types of jokes or use certain words despite the context.


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Pool table insults
Calling a player a 'poof' is homophobic. It has nothing to do with free speech.


February 27, 2007


Over at Spiked, Oxford student Maria Grasso is spitting fire at what she sees as a suppression of freedom of speech at Merton College. Following a "heated game of pool", phrases like "Oh don't be such a poof!" and "You missed that shot, you big gay!" were used.

After receiving a complaint, the JCR [Junior Common Room] president sent out the following e-mail: "JCR members have raised concerns after groups have been overheard in the Games Room and other communal areas of college using terms like 'gay' and 'poof' as joking insults. Please be aware that using language like this is unacceptable and extremely offensive, even if you are not being intentionally malicious and think you are being ironic or witty in some way. It creates an uncomfortable atmosphere in the college."

Grasso goes on to launch an attack on what she sees as a suppression of freedom of speech by the powers that be: "Can students not take a joke any more? Can they not handle the use of words such as 'gay' or 'poof' in a slang context ... Both Davies [JCR executive] and Godfrey [the complainant] admit that the students probably were not expressing anti-gay prejudice when they made these comments while making their wrists go all limp."

She quotes Godfrey as saying: "I never maintained that this was deliberately malicious homophobia because I didn't feel like I had been harassed; otherwise I would have turned to the college authorities. They were basically acting the ways guys do."

There was a time when I would have agreed with Grasso. I understood the term "gay" as having a meaning above and beyond its homosexual connotations, and that it could be used in a variety of contexts without being homophobic. In many ways I still do. Indeed, there are times when you might catch me using the word "gay" myself. But I'm increasingly aware that there is a massive problem with deploying these words in everyday discourse, and that to do so contributes to a pernicious homophobia, which remains the last tolerated prejudice in western society.

Inevitability, in defending her line, Grasso invokes John Stuart Mill. Through the prism of On Liberty, the JCR becomes a body devoted to suppressing the free speech of its students: "His [Mill's] point ... was that only in instances where words and actions might directly lead to violence could one make a case for curtailing freedom of speech."

But the JCR, according to the email, was clearly not "curtailing freedom of speech". Rather, it was trying to argue against the use of homophobic language, an entirely different proposition.

Before returning to her "freedom of speech" straw man, Grasso offers an unconvincing response to the argument against using words like "gay" and "poof". She predictably takes refuge in the idea that the word "gay" has several definitions, only one of which is homosexual.

The others? "Merry, licentious and wanton", which hardly seem to have been plucked out of thin air. Had the Merton College pool players referred to their opponents' shortcomings as "Jewish" or "black", Grasso would presumably not be defending them on the pages of Spiked. Why, then, does the defence of homophobia suddenly become a noble cause?

This week a friend sent me a song referring to Ashley Cole as a "Chelsea batty-boy". My discomfort was acute. If the song had referred to Mr Cole as a "Chelsea nigger", it would not have been distributed. In a probably excessive bout of self-righteousness, I made this point to the sender, who is certainly no homophobe.

"It winds him up," was the justification. This is the logic of the playground. The reason it winds him up is because the Chelsea left-back is part of an industry known for its homophobia, where to be depicted as gay is to cause great offence.

We must challenge this idea openly. There is nothing wrong with being gay, any more than there is anything wrong with being black or Muslim. This does not mean that we must suppress freedom of speech.

Of course there can be contexts where using the word "gay" can be acceptable, just as with any epithet. But not in the case which Grasso cites. The language used during the now infamous game of pool is part of a dull and lazy homophobia, in which being gay is equated with weakness and inability. In order to challenge this, we need to challenge ourselves wherever we go. Even in the privileged confines of Merton College's "swanky" games room.

Offline pecan

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2007, 07:18:52 AM »

I came across something with the freedom of speech after this catch meh attention:
"This week a friend sent me a song referring to Ashley Cole as a "Chelsea batty-boy."   :rotfl:

I cud put it in a certain other thread but I go let that one sleep   :devil:

GO read the comments at the end of the article on the webpage itself too...gives more perspectives.
The environment is a college campus and freedom to make certain types of jokes or use certain words despite the context.


Guardian Unlimited
Pool table insults
Calling a player a 'poof' is homophobic. It has nothing to do with free speech.


February 27, 2007


Over at Spiked, Oxford student Maria Grasso is spitting fire at what she sees as a suppression of freedom of speech at Merton College. Following a "heated game of pool", phrases like "Oh don't be such a poof!" and "You missed that shot, you big gay!" were used.

After receiving a complaint, the JCR [Junior Common Room] president sent out the following e-mail: "JCR members have raised concerns after groups have been overheard in the Games Room and other communal areas of college using terms like 'gay' and 'poof' as joking insults. Please be aware that using language like this is unacceptable and extremely offensive, even if you are not being intentionally malicious and think you are being ironic or witty in some way. It creates an uncomfortable atmosphere in the college."

Grasso goes on to launch an attack on what she sees as a suppression of freedom of speech by the powers that be: "Can students not take a joke any more? Can they not handle the use of words such as 'gay' or 'poof' in a slang context ... Both Davies [JCR executive] and Godfrey [the complainant] admit that the students probably were not expressing anti-gay prejudice when they made these comments while making their wrists go all limp."

She quotes Godfrey as saying: "I never maintained that this was deliberately malicious homophobia because I didn't feel like I had been harassed; otherwise I would have turned to the college authorities. They were basically acting the ways guys do."

There was a time when I would have agreed with Grasso. I understood the term "gay" as having a meaning above and beyond its homosexual connotations, and that it could be used in a variety of contexts without being homophobic. In many ways I still do. Indeed, there are times when you might catch me using the word "gay" myself. But I'm increasingly aware that there is a massive problem with deploying these words in everyday discourse, and that to do so contributes to a pernicious homophobia, which remains the last tolerated prejudice in western society.

Inevitability, in defending her line, Grasso invokes John Stuart Mill. Through the prism of On Liberty, the JCR becomes a body devoted to suppressing the free speech of its students: "His [Mill's] point ... was that only in instances where words and actions might directly lead to violence could one make a case for curtailing freedom of speech."

But the JCR, according to the email, was clearly not "curtailing freedom of speech". Rather, it was trying to argue against the use of homophobic language, an entirely different proposition.

Before returning to her "freedom of speech" straw man, Grasso offers an unconvincing response to the argument against using words like "gay" and "poof". She predictably takes refuge in the idea that the word "gay" has several definitions, only one of which is homosexual.

The others? "Merry, licentious and wanton", which hardly seem to have been plucked out of thin air. Had the Merton College pool players referred to their opponents' shortcomings as "Jewish" or "black", Grasso would presumably not be defending them on the pages of Spiked. Why, then, does the defence of homophobia suddenly become a noble cause?

This week a friend sent me a song referring to Ashley Cole as a "Chelsea batty-boy". My discomfort was acute. If the song had referred to Mr Cole as a "Chelsea nigger", it would not have been distributed. In a probably excessive bout of self-righteousness, I made this point to the sender, who is certainly no homophobe.

"It winds him up," was the justification. This is the logic of the playground. The reason it winds him up is because the Chelsea left-back is part of an industry known for its homophobia, where to be depicted as gay is to cause great offence.

We must challenge this idea openly. There is nothing wrong with being gay, any more than there is anything wrong with being black or Muslim. This does not mean that we must suppress freedom of speech.

Of course there can be contexts where using the word "gay" can be acceptable, just as with any epithet. But not in the case which Grasso cites. The language used during the now infamous game of pool is part of a dull and lazy homophobia, in which being gay is equated with weakness and inability. In order to challenge this, we need to challenge ourselves wherever we go. Even in the privileged confines of Merton College's "swanky" games room.

I only read it once .. so I eh draw any conclusions yet  ;D


but it seems that debate is examining where the "line" is.

That line is a moving target ... depends on the audience and the context of the comments.

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline dcs

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2007, 10:35:28 AM »

p check out the comments at the end too.

Offline pioneertrini

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2007, 11:06:40 AM »
Freedom of speech is a concept cooked up by the people who would stand to loose from actual freedom of speech. You ask where are the lines, boundaries & balance. Thing is freedom is just that it has no limit so never be fooled into thinking that we have any kind of freedom of speech, privacy and human rights. Fact is you are free until you piss the wrong person off then you get locked. How can we expect all our kids to grow up and use what so called freedoms we do have responsibly, when the people who put the limits on us abuse it the most. Take Ernst Zundel. How is it that a man can deny the Holocaust and get locked up yet you can bawl Iraq have weapons of mass destruction as a result thousands die nothing is done and still it continues. Tell me this, if an American should deny the genocide of indians in the Americas would he be jailed? Maybe in years to come people will be locked up for saying 9/11 was an inside job. Ironic that we have laws in our nations to protect human rights and freedom of speech yet there are other laws put in place which superseed them whenever the people in charge feel.

Dutty yuh see i try rel hard to not use the word illuminati in there ;)

Offline Dutty

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2007, 05:29:39 PM »
Quote from: p on February 28, 2007, 09:12:00 PM
Quote from: Queen Macoomeh on February 28, 2007, 09:04:04 PM
Lips Sealed

now I eh know if yuh deliberately being witty with you smiley face  Lips Sealed = "lips sealed"

If you were, den you are de mistress of puns  Grin

It have a line p, yuh feel yuh cross it yet?



aaah the irony  :devil:
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 05:33:47 PM by Dutty »
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Offline pecan

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Re: Freedom of Speech - When Does it Cross the Line?
« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2007, 09:40:28 PM »
Quote from: p on February 28, 2007, 09:12:00 PM
Quote from: Queen Macoomeh on February 28, 2007, 09:04:04 PM
Lips Sealed

now I eh know if yuh deliberately being witty with you smiley face  Lips Sealed = "lips sealed"

If you were, den you are de mistress of puns  Grin

It have a line p, yuh feel yuh cross it yet?



aaah the irony  :devil:


why yuh have to bring dat up..?

I tort de Queen was using a double entendre when she use the "lips sealed" smiley  :-X in de same context of camel toe.

In fact, I tort it was quite witty.

But it look like she disagreed with she comment about de line ting. 

ay ya yai
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

 

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