New proposed Crime plan!!

[dcs]

Isn't Chaguanas considered one of those hot spots?

I just can't assume because their might be more of one race in these areas that his recommendation is based on that.  Yuh cud say he have something against poor communities too den?  Since that is a next popular one...dem doh care bout poor people.  SO which one it is...race, poor people or both?  Or just maybe neither of them.

So what about hangings...that recommendation based on race too?  Hell...EVERYTHING related to crime would be race/income related if it have a heavier representation of a race/income bracket involved then?

I don't know anything about this man...his past record, ideas or work.  Will not assume he racist because racism might exist in our politics either.

I just don't know anything about the man to make a judgement....YET.

[dcs]

Trinidad Express
Monday, March 5th 2007
Abortion-crime link documented[/color]

Being based abroad, I haven't been privy to all the comments generated as a result of ex-Senator Harry Mungalsigh's controversial advice on using abortion to fight crime, but the few I've read suggest that Mr Mungalsigh devised this plan on his own but I'm not sure that's true.

If you get the chance, borrow or buy the book entitled Freakonomics co-written by a world-renowned economist, Steven B Levitt, published in 2005. This is the first book I've seen which discussed the link between Roe vs Wade (the legalisation of abortion) and the decline in crime rates in the US. In particular, the author suggested that the most significant contributor to the diminishing of crime in New York was not the actions of the police or ex-mayor Rudy Giuliani but the cumulative effect of two decades of legal abortion in the US.

Edmund Nigel Gall

London


Tribalism is our leaders' bed of nails
.......ASPIRE has not based its abortion law campaign on a crime-abortion link. No research has credibly established that connect. The most famous attempt, a 1999 study by John Donohue and Steven Levitt (of "Freakonomics" fame), argued that the legalisation of abortion by the US Supreme Court in 1973 caused a decrease in the birth of unwanted children, a disproportionate number of whom would have become criminals. But those findings have been authoritatively criticised on the grounds that other possible factors were not explored and that there is simply not enough data to establish a correlation.

:
:

[Jah Gol]

Isn't Chaguanas considered one of those hot spots?

I just can't assume because their might be more of one race in these areas that his recommendation is based on that.  Yuh cud say he have something against poor communities too den?  Since that is a next popular one...dem doh care bout poor people.  SO which one it is...race, poor people or both?  Or just maybe neither of them.

So what about hangings...that recommendation based on race too?  Hell...EVERYTHING related to crime would be race/income related if it have a heavier representation of a race/income bracket involved then?

I don't know anything about this man...his past record, ideas or work.  Will not assume he racist because racism might exist in our politics either.

I just don't know anything about the man to make a judgement....YET.

Mungalsingh drew instant condemnation on Tuesday when pointed out that 83 per cent of the prison population came from “specific communities” and that anti-crime plans should include abortion and cash-incentives for voluntary sterilisation.
 

This 83 % does not come from Chaguanas.

[dcs]

ASPIRE...the abortionist people...on the radio now.
Distancing themselves from Mungalsingh.

I think they fraid he messing up their campaign.


It have people who choose to tie their tubes because they don't believe they can provide for their children.  Ah lie...most of them doh have money for that and end up having abortions anyway...or abandoning their children.  If they had the option of free tie tubing....plenty people would take it up...not necessarily because of crime...just as a birth control method.  Couples do it all the time if they don't want children.

[dcs]

and meh answer is no   

[Organic]

and meh answer is no   

i believe i shouldnt advocate somehting u wouldnt be willing to do your self.

[dcs]

and meh answer is no   

i believe i shouldnt advocate somehting u wouldnt be willing to do your self.

I strongly disagree.  I tell u already the question is off base.  First off people are free to choose.  If I choose one way does not mean others can't choose another way.

And I never indicated I was advocating it either.

Remember I never said if I agreed with his proposals or not.  I just didn't know if it was as sinister as people were making it out to be.   Rennie Dumas bawling genocide for e.g then TT calling the man a racist.

[Organic]

and meh answer is no   

i believe i shouldnt advocate somehting u wouldnt be willing to do your self.

I strongly disagree.  I tell u already the question is off base.  First off people are free to choose.  If I choose one way does not mean others can't choose another way.

And I never indicated I was advocating it either.

Remember I never said if I agreed with his proposals or not.  I just didn't know if it was as sinister as people were making it out to be.   Rennie Dumas bawling genocide for e.g then TT calling the man a racist.

come man..semantics on a chat forum is a waste of tallman and dem space.lol
u is a real politician oui.
yuh full ah it. so u wasnt defending his proposals  you just feel people hating on him.
lol
man thank good i not in business with u nah...meh back woulda have one set ah whole..
anybody say smart man

[ribbit]

cash-incentive sterilization - where mungalsingh going with this? whappen to family planning ?

[dcs]

But Hoe...how yuh mean.  Yes I think people jump to conclusions about where he coming from...at least from their initial reaction talking bout genoicide and race race.

What wrong with being more concerned with that than the proposal he had...it was just an idea he had....it wasn't even a well drafted proposal to be taken seriously.  Nobody even debating his idea seriously but is his motives people talking about.  Is not just me. 

Is just a matter of separating ideas/proposals from the author.  I don't believe in condemning ideas because I doh like the person....or thinking a person  evil cuz they give a dotish proposal...dais all.

What u know about this man other than this?  Probably nothing.

Maybe is u people hadda worry bout...one mistake and yuh go turn on dem. 

[Organic]

But Hoe...how yuh mean.  Yes I think people jump to conclusions about where he coming from...at least from their initial reaction talking bout genoicide and race race.

What wrong with being more concerned with that than the proposal he had...it was just an idea he had....it wasn't even a well drafted proposal to be taken seriously.  Nobody even debating his idea seriously but is his motives people talking about.  Is not just me. 

Is just a matter of separating ideas/proposals from the author.  I don't believe in condemning ideas because I doh like the person....or thinking a person  evil cuz they give a dotish proposal...dais all.

What u know about this man other than this?  Probably nothing.

Maybe is u people hadda worry bout...one mistake and yuh go turn on dem. 

let me ask u it this way.
as a matter of opnion and ideal do u advocate that plan as you see it?

[dcs]

lol
what plan...yuh mean that cash insentive sterilization talk.

Not to solve crime no.  I don't think there should be any cash incentive nothing for any medical procedure.  You can make things available to people but cash incentive would distort people's judgment about whether something is right for them or not. U don't want vulnerable people lining up to do something just for money.  The movie Losing Isiah comes to mind cuz I saw it recently.

Family planning should be readily available to anyone who wants it.  If sterilization is something the family planning people in T&T consider (i doubt) then I would say it could be made available at minimal cost to anybody in the country who is going through the family planning people.  Of course this is assuming they are very very careful about suggesting it and there is a well thought out counseling and evaluation process involved to ensure people have all the information and advice they need to make any major decision.  Plus I think some procedures are reversible.

Whether we want abortion or sterilization (u sure that is the right word?) as part of the family planning options goes back to the Pro Choice Pro Life debate.  Doh ask meh to get into that.   

[truetrini]

lol
what plan...yuh mean that cash insentive sterilization talk.

Not to solve crime no.  I don't think there should be any cash incentive nothing for any medical procedure.  You can make things available to people but cash incentive would distort people's judgment about whether something is right for them or not. U don't want vulnerable people lining up to do something just for money.  The movie Losing Isiah comes to mind cuz I saw it recently.

Family planning should be readily available to anyone who wants it.  If sterilization is something the family planning people in T&T consider (i doubt) then I would say it could be made available at minimal cost to anybody in the country who is going through the family planning people.  Of course this is assuming they are very very careful about suggesting it and there is a well thought out counseling and evaluation process involved to ensure people have all the information and advice they need to make any major decision.  Plus I think some procedures are reversible.

Whether we want abortion or sterilization (u sure that is the right word?) as part of the family planning options goes back to the Pro Choice Pro Life debate.  Doh ask meh to get into that.   

doh try dat shit.  Yuh was all fuh sifting thru de man speech now yuh backing back?

De man is ah racist PIG!

YES I say so..he advocating sterilzation ah black people.

steups.

[dcs]

I sure yuh doh know nutten about the man.  is cuz he UNC dais all yuh see.

[just cool]

true trini i couldn't agree with you more ,this man is so racist that he don't even realise it,what he said was totally out of order and hurtful.how the hell could you make such a blatantly racist statment and not get called on it, what he thought,every one was asleep on the floor? I'am suprised only renne dumas called him on his bull sh##.every one knows he was talking about laventille belmont E.D.R. sealots ect. since these are P.N.M. strong holds with a predominantly black population.you know everyone's talking about crime but what people don't understand is crime generates mass income for crocked state officials and greedy business men,when you impovrish certin communities and create oppertunities for crime what do you expect. for years these boys was terrorising their own communities and no one gave a sh##, as soon as crime started showing up at the door steps of  the middle and upper class people then all of a sudden the whole nation is up in alms about crime. now this simpleton has proposed steralisation as a solution to fight crime, what a ninkanpoop.i hope he starts at the top onn down maybe castration instead of steralisation, i'am sure we'll have alot of limp dick serians and indian men walking around T&T. let me give you a heads up on how to fight crime ADOLPH!! reform the ministry of EDC set up a proper teaching cariculum from elementry tru high school and encourage higher learning, and the most important thing create more oppertunity for the youths as this will be a better solution as opposed to steralisation you disgusting piece of s##t.          positive.

[fishs]

Cytotec or a warm guiness with two raw egg stirred but not shaken an a trip down Wrightson rd (wen it had plenty potholes)

[Organic]

Cytotec or a warm guiness with two raw egg stirred but not shaken an a trip down Wrightson rd (wen it had plenty potholes)

yuh make nuff gyul drink warm guiness eh man..lol

[fishs]

Cytotec or a warm guiness with two raw egg stirred but not shaken an a trip down Wrightson rd (wen it had plenty potholes)

yuh make nuff gyul drink warm guiness eh man..lol

Yeh, ah encounter some real alcoholics in my time. 

[Organic]

Cytotec or a warm guiness with two raw egg stirred but not shaken an a trip down Wrightson rd (wen it had plenty potholes)

yuh make nuff gyul drink warm guiness eh man..lol

Yeh, ah encounter some real alcoholics in my time. 

[truetrini]

I sure yuh doh know nutten about the man.  is cuz he UNC dais all yuh see.

Maybe becasue he is ah UNC dat you can see it fit to defend the indefensible??

[ribbit]

true trini i couldn't agree with you more ,this man is so racist that he don't even realise it,what he said was totally out of order and hurtful.how the hell could you make such a blatantly racist statment and not get called on it, what he thought,every one was asleep on the floor? I'am suprised only renne dumas called him on his bull sh##.every one knows he was talking about laventille belmont E.D.R. sealots ect. since these are P.N.M. strong holds with a predominantly black population.you know everyone's talking about crime but what people don't understand is crime generates mass income for crocked state officials and greedy business men,when you impovrish certin communities and create oppertunities for crime what do you expect. for years these boys was terrorising their own communities and no one gave a sh##, as soon as crime started showing up at the door steps of  the middle and upper class people then all of a sudden the whole nation is up in alms about crime. now this simpleton has proposed steralisation as a solution to fight crime, what a ninkanpoop.i hope he starts at the top onn down maybe castration instead of steralisation, i'am sure we'll have alot of limp dick serians and indian men walking around T&T. let me give you a heads up on how to fight crime ADOLPH!! reform the ministry of EDC set up a proper teaching cariculum from elementry tru high school and encourage higher learning, and the most important thing create more oppertunity for the youths as this will be a better solution as opposed to steralisation you disgusting piece of s##t.          positive.

jc, it says very clearly in the article that the communities were targetted because they contribute to 83% of the prison population - not because they are as you say PNM strongholds.

[dcs]

I sure yuh doh know nutten about the man.  is cuz he UNC dais all yuh see.

Maybe becasue he is ah UNC dat you can see it fit to defend the indefensible??

I not defending the statements.  I don't agree with what he said.  The thing that urk me is that people jump to cry racism WITHOUT HESITATION on the SOLE BASIS that he is an Indian in the UNC and know nothing about the man....NOTHING.  What yuh know about him?  I doh understand how anybody cud vex with me because I say I don't know if is racism that behind his statements. steupse

Drawing a link betw abortion and crime is not an inherently racist thing...it was done before even if it wasn't proven.  So the racism come in because people feel he did it as a cover for genocide.

leave meh let me stay naive.  U know how easy it is to call racism on both sides when society steeped in paranoia and distrust of other groups?

[dcs]

Trinidad Guardian
Letters
Friday 9th March, 2007
Sensible idea from ex-senator


Congratulations to ex-Senator Harry Mungalsingh for speaking his mind and saying what everybody knows is the truth.

Mungalsingh, in case anyone missed the story, advocated cash-incentivised sterilisation for women and availability of abortions in crime-intensive areas. Of course abortion would have to be made legal before the introduction of such a measure, but sterilisation could be offered immediately.

It is obvious to all who are prepared to think objectively about the problems of modern society that too many irresponsible pregnancies occur among people who have no intention of bringing up a child in a civilised manner or are incapable of doing so due to lack of education, and/or having suffered an improper upbringing themselves.

The only comment I would make about Mungalsingh’s statement is that it did not go far enough. Free abortions and birth control should be available to all the population, including vasectomies for men.

The reaction to Mungalsingh’s statement by his own party is pure hypocrisy, and the remark attributed to Dumas (“genocide”) was completely ludicrous, all showing the extent people will go to in cheap politics.

Mungalsingh never proposed killing any baby that had been born. No child is responsible for their own birth, and every child brought into this world should look forward to an upbringing in a loving and protective family. But too many face the prospect of growing up in entirely the wrong circumstances, virtual abandonment by parents, and exposure to all the wrong influences.

The Government has been very reticent about facing this very real and pressing problem and has been remarkably silent on solutions to the pressures of overpopulation, no doubt for fear of provoking a vote-losing reaction from religious groups or people constantly trying to put a racial spin against every piece of common sense.

What responsible government would shout down such an obvious effective preventative measure? What kind of opposition would dissociate itself from such a sensible comment?

Clearly such a problem should start where the problem is worst and that’s the high crime areas.

Those fickle politicians might be surprised to learn how many people appreciate a sensible honest recommendation instead of the endless empty rhetoric that achieves nothing.

Bravo, Mungalsingh!

Reg Potter

Glencoe

[just cool]

I'm sure his name ain't no dog gone reg potter, that is ah mama gye name tuh trow we orf. by the way he spoke he sound more like a rupnarine babolal to me. a lepeard could never change his spots and i don't think an indian could ever stop being antagonistic and racist especially towards african people no matter how hard they try, it's in their genes. after all idon't expect any thing less from a people who practice that oppresive backward tradition called the cast system. indians are just as criminal minded and corrupt as the black hen chickens in the ghetto, they just know how to hide they dirty laundry better, since they are such good hiders. the same way they run and HIDE in the cane feild when we ancestors was fighting the british dogs. that's how it's been for years ,the african do all the hard work, and they come and reap all the benifits. if it was all up to them trinidad would still be flying the union jack. allyuh bettah say thank yuh niggah charlie fuh evry ting yuh don fuh wee. or else we wuodah still be wearing slippers and bussup pants in town.          negitive!!!!! 

[noname]

I'm sure his name ain't no dog gone reg potter, that is ah mama gye name tuh trow we orf. by the way he spoke he sound more like a rupnarine babolal to me. a lepeard could never change his spots and i don't think an indian could ever stop being antagonistic and racist especially towards african people no matter how hard they try, it's in their genes. after all idon't expect any thing less from a people who practice that oppresive backward tradition called the cast system. indians are just as criminal minded and corrupt as the black hen chickens in the ghetto, they just know how to hide they dirty laundry better, since they are such good hiders. the same way they run and HIDE in the cane feild when we ancestors was fighting the british dogs. that's how it's been for years ,the african do all the hard work, and they come and reap all the benifits. if it was all up to them trinidad would still be flying the union jack. allyuh bettah say thank yuh niggah charlie fuh evry ting yuh don fuh wee. or else we wuodah still be wearing slippers and bussup pants in town.          negitive!!!!! 

And the truth comes out...

[truetrini]

well I am not sure that the writer is and indian, he may or may not.  His letter states that abortions and vascetomies should be available, but he is very naieve if he fels that the easy availability of abortions and vascetomies will serve as a crime detterent or somehow affect the number of crimes we face.

T&T is already facing a negative population growth.

Mungalsingh is crazy to have even suggested that as a solution and the writer of the letter to his credit does not advocate the same thing as Mungalsingh....what he does is soften MSingh's stand and makes it appear that he wasnt preaching racism and bullshit!

[dcs]

So TT what you think about just cool last statement?

I'm sure his name ain't no dog gone reg potter, that is ah mama gye name tuh trow we orf. by the way he spoke he sound more like a rupnarine babolal to me. a lepeard could never change his spots and i don't think an indian could ever stop being antagonistic and racist especially towards african people no matter how hard they try, it's in their genes. after all idon't expect any thing less from a people who practice that oppresive backward tradition called the cast system. indians are just as criminal minded and corrupt as the black hen chickens in the ghetto, they just know how to hide they dirty laundry better, since they are such good hiders. the same way they run and HIDE in the cane feild when we ancestors was fighting the british dogs. that's how it's been for years ,the african do all the hard work, and they come and reap all the benifits. if it was all up to them trinidad would still be flying the union jack. allyuh bettah say thank yuh niggah charlie fuh evry ting yuh don fuh wee. or else we wuodah still be wearing slippers and bussup pants in town.          negitive!!!!! 

[JayTheWrecker]

I'm sure his name ain't no dog gone reg potter, that is ah mama gye name tuh trow we orf. by the way he spoke he sound more like a rupnarine babolal to me. a lepeard could never change his spots and i don't think an indian could ever stop being antagonistic and racist especially towards african people no matter how hard they try, it's in their genes. after all idon't expect any thing less from a people who practice that oppresive backward tradition called the cast system. indians are just as criminal minded and corrupt as the black hen chickens in the ghetto, they just know how to hide they dirty laundry better, since they are such good hiders. the same way they run and HIDE in the cane feild when we ancestors was fighting the british dogs. that's how it's been for years ,the african do all the hard work, and they come and reap all the benifits. if it was all up to them trinidad would still be flying the union jack. allyuh bettah say thank yuh niggah charlie fuh evry ting yuh don fuh wee. or else we wuodah still be wearing slippers and bussup pants in town.          negitive!!!!! 

charming....

[just cool]

DONT  YOU  WORRY  ABOUT  WHAT  I  SAID,  WHAT  I  SAY  CAN'T  EVEN  HURT     AH  FLY,  BUT  THIS  MAN  HAS  THE  POWER  TO  HURT  A  WHOLE  GENERATION  MAYBE  MORE!  SO . DID  YOU  HEAR  WHAT  MUNGALSINGH  SAID?          positive.

So TT what you think about just cool last statement?

I'm sure his name ain't no dog gone reg potter, that is ah mama gye name tuh trow we orf. by the way he spoke he sound more like a rupnarine babolal to me. a lepeard could never change his spots and i don't think an indian could ever stop being antagonistic and racist especially towards african people no matter how hard they try, it's in their genes. after all idon't expect any thing less from a people who practice that oppresive backward tradition called the cast system. indians are just as criminal minded and corrupt as the black hen chickens in the ghetto, they just know how to hide they dirty laundry better, since they are such good hiders. the same way they run and HIDE in the cane feild when we ancestors was fighting the british dogs. that's how it's been for years ,the african do all the hard work, and they come and reap all the benifits. if it was all up to them trinidad would still be flying the union jack. allyuh bettah say thank yuh niggah charlie fuh evry ting yuh don fuh wee. or else we wuodah still be wearing slippers and bussup pants in town. negitive!!!!!

[Feliziano]

I'm sure his name ain't no dog gone reg potter, that is ah mama gye name tuh trow we orf. by the way he spoke he sound more like a rupnarine babolal to me. a lepeard could never change his spots and i don't think an indian could ever stop being antagonistic and racist especially towards african people no matter how hard they try, it's in their genes. after all idon't expect any thing less from a people who practice that oppresive backward tradition called the cast system. indians are just as criminal minded and corrupt as the black hen chickens in the ghetto, they just know how to hide they dirty laundry better, since they are such good hiders. the same way they run and HIDE in the cane feild when we ancestors was fighting the british dogs. that's how it's been for years ,the african do all the hard work, and they come and reap all the benifits. if it was all up to them trinidad would still be flying the union jack. allyuh bettah say thank yuh niggah charlie fuh evry ting yuh don fuh wee. or else we wuodah still be wearing slippers and bussup pants in town.          negitive!!!!! 

well yes 
ah guess since yuh pro-african yuh feel yuh could say what yuh want and get away with it on this 90% African forum eh?
well i will have to say yes that you will get away with it cause most of the people here is hypocrites and they does only yap dey mouth when they get offended, but they doesn't want to even hear the other side of a story or if the situation was reversed.
the caste system mustbe bad..but yuh ent think selling your own people to white slave traders just as bad?
also what is this nonsense but running and hiding when fighting the British?..steups