It is a myth that we do not have talented players

[palos]

Everybody sayin we doh have talented players....dis team eh have no "talent" especially in MIDFIELD etc.

This is NOT TRUE


We DO NOT HAVE A RUSSELL LATAPY...true

But I tellin allyuh.....Kerwyn "Hardest" Jemmott have AT LEAST the amount of talent as a Arnold Dwarika

Densil Theobald showin dat he have talent

Michael Celestine have talent

Otis Seaton Auritus Whitley (dem does confuse me when dey pick side...how much passport he have?) is very talented

Keon Daniel is a serious TALENT

And that's just midfield.

Players such as Gorian Highley, Hayden Tinto (a Dwarika clone), Kerry Noray, Kerry Baptiste, Cornell Glen, Josh Johnson etc are ALL TALENTED PLAYERS

The talent exisits despite the "spin" coming from certain quarters.  If you SOLELY want to compare the talent to Russell Latapy then that's a mistake.  Latapy was a rare gem.  The likes of him don't come around very often if ever.

[AB.Trini]

Palos; I agree with you. Hence my reasoning for the need for us to develop a strong team with localy based players. As we all know, when that happens, the best ones are lured to professional contracts abroad. That  is aconstnt deliemna we will continue to face.

[Benjie]

Only one thing Jemmott is far more talented than Dwarika ever dreamed to be. Think about it have you ever seen Jemmot pass ah ball? Other than them we have potentially good defenders like Corey Rivers and Ian Gray

[dcs]

GO WARRIORS[/color][/glow]

I agree completely.

Latapy is just the latest to say we have talented players and I don't think he is just mamaguying.

We ma ynot have superstars but we certainly have talent otherwise the scouts from MLS and the UK would not waste their time looking at our players.

The national teams should be our way of unearthing and grooming our upcoming players because that would be the key for us when we have trouble bringing those who have already been discovered.  It is also harder for teams like the US to prepare for players they are not familiar with compared to a Stern John who he they know inside out.  Is to find the right mix of new talent and the regulars cuz once they discovered they on their way and is up to us to find the next up and coming player who right here under our noses.

[rocwell]

As we should know by now, talent alone is insufficient when it comes to putting together winning teams.

[Socafan]

Yeah Palos I agree. In fact overall I believe that this is the most talented group we have produced.

The team has the potential to be the most balanced. And I also believe that we are on the cusp of producing an even better group of ballers for the future. We are about to explode with technically proficient players. However, they will be boring and unexciting, because they will lack the street ball flavour of past players. Right now them fellas could trap and pass and head and perform in dead ball situations much, much better than before but ask dem to dribble ah man and dey look uncomfortable. In fact the instinct now is to pass before dribble, the opposite of before. This is what I am seeing anyway.

However, passing is an art and has to be coached for most players and for a team. It not just about passing to the nearest open man as we do. It involves TIMING and off ball running and involving the right man in the right position to get the ball, and knowing where everyone is at all times. Right now it looks like this is the major problem with this team. Either they are not learning how to pass, or they are not being taught.

[rocwell]

However, passing is an art and has to be coached for most players and for a team. It not just about passing to the nearest open man as we do. It involves TIMING and off ball running and involving the right man in the right position to get the ball, and knowing where everyone is at all times. Right now it looks like this is the major problem with this team. Either they are not learning how to pass, or they are not being taught.

Don't you think that if they don't already know how to do this that:

a. They wouldn't suddenly just pick it up.
b. We're in serious trouble as our opponents have been taught this at earlier ages (which is why we always consistently are not competitive at youth level)

But I do agree that in future our players will be better educated and the pass before dribble mentality will result in better teams.

[Socafan]

I don't think the pass before dribble mentality is necessarily better. There are certain teams that are very susceptible to the dribble and some teams that can't cope properly with good passing. our problem is that our technical staff does not/cannot recognize this and translate it into a winning formula for each team that we play. For instance I would play a team like Panama or another caribbean team with a passing game, because I believe that teams like these can defend the dribble instinctively. The USA and especially  Mexico I would play a more individual dribbling game because their game is almost entirely devoid of instinctive dribblers like we use to have. Mexico (or Mexican players) especially seem to be really susceptible againsts instinctive dribblers. But this is easier said than done.
For some reason, we seem to have completely forgotten our dribbling game.

[rocwell]

I don't think the pass before dribble mentality is necessarily better. There are certain teams that are very susceptible to the dribble and some teams that can't cope properly with good passing. our problem is that our technical staff does not/cannot recognize this and translate it into a winning formula for each team that we play. For instance I would play a team like Panama or another caribbean team with a passing game, because I believe that teams like these can defend the dribble instinctively. The USA and especially Mexico I would play a more individual dribbling game because their game is almost entirely devoid of instinctive dribblers like we use to have. Mexico (or Mexican players) especially seem to be really susceptible againsts instinctive dribblers. But this is easier said than done.
For some reason, we seem to have completely forgotten our dribbling game.

I disagree.  The pass before dribble mentality is far greater.   In places like South America and Europe players are taught this from age 10 or whereabouts.  Moving the ball well makes things much easier.  This is why USA has been so consistently successful in this region.  They are better organized, plain and simple.  They have never had the a great collection of dribblers, but they've consistently defeated us who have fielded the like of Dwarika, Latapy, Wise etc. 

Look at any great team in history, they may have individually talented players, of course, but that talent fits into the greater tactical scheme.

An organized team beats a collection of individuals every time.  I do wish we would see some 'pretty' football, but more than that I'd like to see our players keeping their shape and moving well off the ball.

[Observer]

T&T always has talent. The problem is keeping that talent available for the country and building upon the talent taht exist. Talent itself is not the "be all and end all" it is simply a foundation to build upon. Remember many talented players do not make it in this game, simply because they lack the mental strength (as an example) or they lack the capacity in other aspects of the game.

[palos]

I partly agree with what you say.  The overall point being made in the post is that the talent does exist despite many saying it doesn't.

As far as keeping talent at home......I don't think that is realistic.  If the talent is such that it is in demand abroad and the renumeration and environment are superior to what is available locally, the talent HAS to go.

The key is the local talent that is there needs to have a structured environment.  One of the problems we face is that we have a fragmented system whereby everybody is coach and everybody teachin different system.  Simoes referred to it as a Tossed Salad system I believe where it have a piece here...trow een a nex piece over so etc.

One team playin 4-4-2....nex team playin 4-3-3...senior team playin 5-3-2.  Nobody know the position they supposed to play.

We are not the only country to have this problem but as we are so small....surely it would help to at least TRY to implement some sort of consistensy in the structure of our football.

Unfortunately, we have numerous saboteurs WITH POWER who only have their agenda in mind.

[FF]

I saying the same thing over and over. The talent is there. When you compare our guys player for player against the rest of concacaf. We are not far behind if not at all. Yuh feel Theobald get good in January... these fellas showing promise long time now... They need to be given their chance to show what dey worth. Just check Sam for de comprehensive list of youth players out there. yuh go see talent.

[palos]

Test

[Tongue]

.....always t'ought it is better to use the pass to setup the beat.

[Savannah boy]

On de other hand when yuh listen to Alvin Cornmeal, he does say oh dis one is so talented and dat one talented like if nobody on de field have talent. Lesser squads do more than us because they have harnessed what they have better than us. Jamaica and Cuba eh dat much better than we players on an individual skill basis but they are more seasoned and have more finances than we do. They play better team ball and are more organized and they stay away from last minute fine tuning! Fail to prepare, then prepare to fail. This has been our modus operandi for far too long. I doh see talent being an issue. If Latas was dey, yuh think de results would be vastly different? No way. Been there, done that, bought dat t-shirt already. 

[FF]

On de other hand when yuh listen to Alvin Cornmeal, he does say oh dis one is so talented and dat one talented like if nobody on de field have talent. Lesser squads do more than us because they have harnessed what they have better than us. Jamaica and Cuba eh dat much better than we players on an individual skill basis but they are more seasoned and have more finances than we do. They play better team ball and are more organized and they stay away from last minute fine tuning! Fail to prepare, then prepare to fail. This has been our modus operandi for far too long. I doh see talent being an issue. If Latas was dey, yuh think de results would be vastly different? No way. Been there, done that, bought dat t-shirt already. 

Great post Savannah

[Jahyouth]

These "talented players" that everyone is talking about... where are they?  Who are they?  I want to know that.  Talent is a relative thing eh fellas.  A man could be talented and tear up the Secondary Schools Football League and then get ah easy 6 from the US youth team, 3 from the Costa Rican youth team and so on. 

And doh give me the old story that "individually our players are as talented as theirs individually but as a team we are behind".  That is rum shop talk.  Our so-called "talented" players still have not mastered the basic concepts of passing trapping and movement without the ball as has been so apparent in our youth team embarassments over the past 15 years.

I hear men talking about Hardest.  How he talented.  Talented where?  Playing small goal in the quarry?  Watch meh... it doh have anybody love that youthman style more than me on this board, but looking at the big picture, internationally he is just a little above mediocre.

So until we start realizing that the prima donnas we have are really and truly not as good as they or the Corneals think they are, we spinning top in mud.

[FF]

These "talented players" that everyone is talking about... where are they?  Who are they?  I want to know that.  Talent is a relative thing eh fellas.  A man could be talented and tear up the Secondary Schools Football League and then get ah easy 6 from the US youth team, 3 from the Costa Rican youth team and so on. 

And doh give me the old story that "individually our players are as talented as theirs individually but as a team we are behind".  That is rum shop talk.  Our so-called "talented" players still have not mastered the basic concepts of passing trapping and movement without the ball as has been so apparent in our youth team embarassments over the past 15 years.

I hear men talking about Hardest.  How he talented.  Talented where?  Playing small goal in the quarry?  Watch meh... it doh have anybody love that youthman style more than me on this board, but looking at the big picture, internationally he is just a little above mediocre.

So until we start realizing that the prima donnas we have are really and truly not as good as they or the Corneals think they are, we spinning top in mud.

Jah youth, I whole heartedly disagree... anybody who say de talent ent dere... either blind or is ah mad man. How allyuh could say de men cannot trap and pass. I could trap and pass, I bet you could trap and pass too... as well as do it under pressure. On the other hand I challenge you to do it while 4 defenders bearing down on you and your teammates just stand around and watch. It will soon appear like you have no clue when you give the ball away.
This is where I agree with you about movement off the ball... but I do not think it is as basic a skill as you make it out to be... It has to be taught because it is a tactical skill. I remember being taught at an early age (11-13)by Basil "Barney" Smith to look for the runs of our attackers and to take up de space created by them. When I went to secondary school nobody had a clue when i mention diagonal runs. Even a few years ago... playing against big seasoned veterans (ex nationals, trini and caribbean) I seeing strikers posin off like is a 100m dash. waiting for thru ball only to run offside.
It was sickening.

But jahyouth yuh cyah say de raw talent ent dere to be exploited. No way at all. This i where I hope Lincoln plan to certify coaches comes to fruition. Youths will be taught de right things at de right time to complement what dey naturally born with and what dey learn in small goal, 5 a side and what have you.
And when we have a set structure from u-13 come right up to senior level with nobody getting leave by de way side. Then we will see success not before. Anytime we see success now... is a flash in de pan business

[rocwell]

Well said, end of discussion.

[Jahyouth]

FF, it so sad where we football reach.  Where any youth who could shimmy and shake a lil bit is considered "talented".  You say you and I can trap and pass as well as do it under presure.  Well boy if that is the case they should draft both ah we to play for the senior squad cause real men there lacking that ability as simple as it seems. 

When I ask where the so-called talented players are I am not looking at a pinpoint Trinidadian scale bossman.  I looking regional and international.  Ask the fellas who look at the youth tournament in California a couple months ago if any one or two of our youths look in any way talented when playing against their peers from other countries.  They look lost.  They look overwhelmed.  They look below standard.  That is plain talk bad manners.

Now who fault is that?  The national coach cause he didn't prepare them?  The school coaches for the same reason for lacking the will or the ability to instill the basics?  The local media for making them feel that they are so great when all they are is good for a handful from a US team of the same age?  The players' fault for not being more humble and trying to master basics like passing, trapping and movement before accessories like dribbling?  Maybe all of the above.  All I am saying is that we use the word "talented" too loosely.

If you at the Under 13 level and you have a player who is able to stand out, but has so-so basic skills, I would agree with you that he is talented.  If at the age of 18 he still has problems passing, trapping, moving off the ball, and uderstanding and executing basic tactical aspects of teh game I say he has missed the boat.  You might still call him talented though.

So you see?  That is where we part ways.  I am not too quick to label a player "talented" especially when he cannot show proficiency in basic skills.  You obviously do not mind doing that.

[FF]

"If you at the Under 13 level and you have a player who is able to stand out, but has so-so basic skills, I would agree with you that he is talented.  If at the age of 18 he still has problems passing, trapping, moving off the ball, and uderstanding and executing basic tactical aspects of teh game I say he has missed the boat.  You might still call him talented though."


I agree he has missed the boat here as well. Yuh make ah great point they jah youth. But all I saying is if i learn off the ball movement... it have men who could do it too... Theobald is a case in point.
But the numbers are too few...

I think if we catch them as late as 15-16 we can rectify some of the problems though

[JDB]

Coaching is a bigger deficiency than player talent.

We just don't have the systems in place to make the coaches we need to develop better players. It is sad because you can develop coaches through competition but the general level is just not high so there is nothing forcing us to develop better local coaches. Hopefully this will change with the PFL but I am not sure. You look at Jabloteh and Connection and their successful coaches were Stuart-Charles and Hill. Hopefully more locals will get a chance or prove that they are worthy of a chance.

Passing and running are the hallmarks of effective football and these are two things that we are woeful at. It is not natural for players to understand that when you make a run you don't have to receive a pass for it to be a successful run. The run creates space for the player with the ball and gives him options. Understanding teamwork is very key and the psychological part of coaching is necessary for this and I just feel that plenty of our coaches don’t get the opportunity to learn this.

This is something that has to be drilled into most players. It is not just us though. I play with some Africans and for nothing could you convince them men to run full out without the ball. They only waiting to see where the ball going and is real hand on waist, complaining business. South Americans I have met have a better appreciation of running off the ball.

[Observer]

Coaching is a bigger deficiency than player talent.

We just don't have the systems in place to make the coaches we need to develop better players. It is sad because you can develop coaches through competition but the general level is just not high so there is nothing forcing us to develop better local coaches. Hopefully this will change with the PFL but I am not sure. You look at Jabloteh and Connection and their successful coaches were Stuart-Charles and Hill. Hopefully more locals will get a chance or prove that they are worthy of a chance.

Passing and running are the hallmarks of effective football and these are two things that we are woeful at. It is not natural for players to understand that when you make a run you don't have to receive a pass for it to be a successful run. The run creates space for the player with the ball and gives him options. Understanding teamwork is very key and the psychological part of coaching is necessary for this and I just feel that plenty of our coaches don’t get the opportunity to learn this.

This is something that has to be drilled into most players. It is not just us though. I play with some Africans and for nothing could you convince them men to run full out without the ball. They only waiting to see where the ball going and is real hand on waist, complaining business. South Americans I have met have a better appreciation of running off the ball.

very true. But really its something that must be developed through the youth ranks. The Brazilians have a saying with their children. "the player that passes the ball and moves forward should have the first option to get it back" Good solid advice and one that tells young players give it move and look for it again.

[Solo]

[dwn]

I have to agree with Jahyouth. I have a feeling that the label "talented" gets thrown out too easy. Too many Trinidadians have a misconception of how good the standard of our nations football is.

I think where our players lack most is speed.

We seem to be lacking the abillity to think fast and make quick enough decisions on which run, which pass, which trap to use in pressure situations. Our players anticipation is slow.

Part of this might be that our young players dont get to see enough football on a world class level. So they really dont understand what the tempo of the game is like. When I saw Chelsea, Milan and Manchester play live at the it really opened my eyes. Watching it on tv does not give you a true picture of the game and how much these players run off the ball and how fast they cover ground.

Too many of our players get to the senior level and then find themselves trying to adjust to the speed.

At the end of the day though, every country has talent. so saying that we have too isnt really putting us anywhere.