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Author Topic: PL: True pro league or developmental?  (Read 3206 times)

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Offline AB.Trini

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PL: True pro league or developmental?
« on: July 29, 2007, 07:47:31 AM »
It is with a resounding praise and support that we bid adieu and all the best to our national players as they get opportunities to ply their trade abroad and in turn earn a decent living from those said talents.

These players also get an opportunity to develop their skills and we in turn live with the hope that our national team would benefit come 2010.

On the other hand,  one can't help but wonder what the impact of our  better players leaving would  have on the quality of play in an already  diluted pool of avaliable talent for our local teams?

Questions:

Is our pro league a develomental league?

Is it a vialble league for players of lesser talent from different islands to hone their skills?

is the quality of play significant so as to produce players who are capable  and talent enough to garner contracts from foreign clubs?

Can a pro league be both viable enoug to sustain talent and good enough to develop  talented/skilled players?

Offline Football supporter

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2007, 08:09:48 AM »
It is with a resounding praise and support that we bid adieu and all the best to our national players as they get opportunities to ply their trade abroad and in turn earn a decent living from those said talents.

These players also get an opportunity to develop their skills and we in turn live with the hope that our national team would benefit come 2010.

On the other hand,† one can't help but wonder what the impact of our† better players leaving would† have on the quality of play in an already† diluted pool of avaliable talent for our local teams?

Questions:

Is our pro league a develomental league?

Is it a vialble league for players of lesser talent from different islands to hone their skills?

is the quality of play significant so as to produce players who are capable† and talent enough to garner contracts from foreign clubs?

Can a pro league be both viable enoug to sustain talent and good enough to develop† talented/skilled players?




This is one of the areas I discussed in m meeting with the ProLeague.

http://www.ttproleague.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=857&Itemid=2

In my opinion, you cannot (and do not want to) prevent the migration. The chance to make big money in the worlds best leagues is one motivaton for players to take up the game locally and work hard to better themselves. The problem as I see it, is that the movement of players is in one direction. What we need to do is encourage foreign players into the ProLeague to bring their skills and attitudes into the local game. Of course, you won't get Beckham and co, but you can entice good quality League 1 & 2 players. Many of these guys have PFA coaching badges. I think attracting some of these guys as player coaches would enhance the ProLeague and lead on to the possibility, eventually, of better tv contracts. I also think if the quality of the league improves, it will become the hub of Caribbean football. Yes, it will still be a stepping stone to the EPL and MLS, but you'll see better football.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2007, 08:20:46 AM »
You hit it right one when you mentioned the one way† flow. i also see the viable option for players like Cornel Glen and Tiger to come back but again it appears that it is for conditioning purposes and as a'holding pattern' until† better opportunites arise.

How would the league attract quality players? and secondly are the teams finanicially able to pay these players?

Offline Football supporter

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2007, 08:52:45 AM »
You hit it right one when you mentioned the one way† flow. i also see the viable option for players like Cornel Glen and Tiger to come back but again it appears that it is for conditioning purposes and as a'holding pattern' until† better opportunites arise.

How would the league attract quality players? and secondly are the teams finanicially able to pay these players?

When you consider that a League 1 player may earn £1,000 per week, but his mortgage would be maybe £1200 per month, I asked the ProLeague if they could provide a house a car and a mobile phone. They said that wouldn't be a problem.  I tht instance, a single guy coud have a great life out there earning $13,000TT per month. He'd also probably be a star player, would get advertising deals and raise his profile. He may only stay one season, but he'd do well.

To put it into perspective, don't forget that Tallest, Scottie, Sancho, Jack, Coxy, Ince and probably others I can't think of play at that level, so the quality is there.


Offline AB.Trini

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2007, 06:53:07 PM »
Do you think there is an obligation on these players part to:

Assist in the development and support for  local football?

Be avaliable to represent TNT at all cost?

Offline Football supporter

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2007, 07:50:16 PM »
Do you think there is an obligation on these players part to:

Assist in the development and support for† local football?

Be avaliable to represent TNT at all cost?

I guess thats a truly peronal question. Some may believe they owe their living to T&T football, some may feel they have improved T&Ts profile and so paid their dues. I would imagine some would wish to give back, others, only if theres something in it for them.

I don't think they should represent T&T at all costs. If they aren't being treated with respect and people are taking advantage of them, then no they shouldn't play. In a perfect world, I imagine they would do whatever they could to gain a cap. At the moment, the Warriors are thinking of the next generation of Warriors.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2007, 09:32:51 AM »
With the recent job offers and  signing by some of  TNT players in the U.K. it would appear that the business side  could be lucrative for the local club owners. Does anyone know what % these club owners get as compensation if a player is still under contract to a local club? I realize that the amount will be contingent on the player or on what he was signed for?

Looking at the business side of  football, it would then be in the best interest of local clubs to ensure that local players are well trained, and that the development of each player's skills is at a level so as to garner outside interest. In that way,  an owner would stand to gain a hefty amount for a player's service from a foreign club.

Player gains+++++ GAINS $$$$$$

Owner  +++++ GAINS$$$$$

fans?????? Yuh see here is where the ordinary fan is robbed of seeing quality players on a consistent basis. Once these players begin performing at a certain level, they are lured to the outside. Not the player's fault. If there are opportunities to make a healthy living and to provide for one's family, why not.

League: Do you think that when our quality players leave, that the quality of play  in the league suffers? Or on the other hand do more borderline players get an opportunity to develop their skills? Is it a testament to the pro league's standards, when players leave and are signed by foreign clubs? Does this prove that the local pro league is in fact producing quality players?

Country: Are the TNT fans seduced into believing that someday our Warriors will go on to stardom, hone their skills to a world class level and then willingly and with great national pride represent TNT and make us real proud? or will we continue to see growing tension between a divided loyalty between country and club and a growing penchant for players who  are now use to playing for $$$$$ so any representation by these said players come at a price!!!!!

Then the question is, what is the purpose of our pro league? Is it a true Pro league? could it attract quality professionals and keep the standard to a level where quality players could compete successfully against  for example MLS competition?  Is sufficient or effective marketing in place to attract more fans and or to attract quality players from other countries?

A question I posed to the C.E.O before is : what does it mean to be a PROFESSIONAL player in TNT? what does that look like and what needs to change in the attitude of players, fans and owners so that we have a viable product to sell to the public? I learned that the marketing for each  team's home game is the responsibility of that team. Is it not possible for owners to pay an amount to the league and have a league wide marketing campaign for each game? This includes effective concessions to also include  team paraphernalia  not a man selling  cold drinks out of a cooler!!! I took in some games and the frustrating thing for me was not having a program to identify players!!! Look I know there is a cost attached to printing programs but even if one was generated and xeroxed would be ok to start with. These are just small steps to developing a professional ethos for the  professional league.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 10:04:54 AM by AB.Trini »

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2007, 10:09:54 PM »
With all the success our players are having in the'Prima donna league'' maybe is time we give some credit to the local league for giving these players the chance to  hone their skills.

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2007, 09:17:23 AM »
I guess in the grand scheme of things this is not too important to many? oh well..........
 Just let the thread go as usual......

Offline morvant

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2007, 09:41:26 AM »
i goin and see tobago play north east later


when last yuh watch ah game?
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Offline kounty

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2007, 09:46:12 AM »
man Ab. you must be the leader in people who does post the most in their own post...well toss up btween you and that one dreamer post . †Actualy I realy appreciated that post and a lot of yours, so continuing....
I was wondering if the pro League did anything for the yardies and Vinceys and other islanders inthe league in terms of organising contracts fr them to European clubs etc like the try to organise for Peltier etc. † I feel like if they do that on a consistent basis then they would have a bigger appeal on the best players from the caribbean - a league truly representing the best of the caribbean - not something to snub at....
but of course you will have the idiots who talking about pro league ent doing nothing for our own players.

Offline doc

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2007, 09:50:19 AM »
i goin and see tobago play north east later


when last yuh watch ah game?
Like yuh in 'bago a lot, Morvant?
Live large and prosper!

Offline maxg

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2007, 10:06:51 AM »
I guess in the grand scheme of things this is not too important to many? oh well..........
 Just let the thread go as usual......
edited:
Sorry Alberta, I presented a similar case, and it was discussed at great length, a few times, many years ago (the old board). I thought in this instance I would rather read and learn, and I personally found no new solutions, other than further discussion. So the fact is, I myself have no new ideas, outside of a suggested socio-economic and political attitude changes, as opposed to a focusing strictly on "football structural changes", which were mostly rejected by this forum, due to our own(forumites) personal limitations as well as by the Joe public of T&T and/or lack of desire to be involved in such a project, and some just considered such a suggestion ridiculous.
So though no comment was placed by me, do not feel your questions went unnoticed. On any serious topic, I rather think and suggest something concrete and achievable, rather than post and offer nothing or even unsound suggestions. †
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 12:13:41 PM by maxg »

Offline AB.Trini

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2008, 08:07:28 AM »
If our pro league cannot produce quality players to defeat Bermuda, then I question the quality and the integrity of  the league to produce a standard of professionalism.

Offline Coop's

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2008, 08:51:22 AM »
My thoughts on this is,the level/quality/standard of a Pro league depends on the level of the players that play in it,we have all our best going abroad and we are not having quality players coming into the league,how do we expect the standard to improve,players can only improve as much as the standard of the league can improve them.

For instance the top club teams,yes they are the best in our country but who are they competing against,is it helping them as teams,there are no competition for our teams to improve much less players,if you look at the results of games they are close in most cases and it's becoming more and more difficult to predict who going to win the league.

The Pro League might be more of a developmental league for T&T players because as they develop we are ready to ship them out,how are we to sustain a viable Pro league with a system like this in place,this is more or less a business for Agents/Clubs,players have no control over that.When you have a small league like ours with no credibility nobody gives you the respect you should get,it's a struggle to even get notice,the mistake we are making is to compare ourselves with the major leagues in the world,those leagues have the financial support to do the things they are doing we don't.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 09:52:02 AM by Coop's »

Offline Deeks

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2008, 08:53:19 AM »
Guys,
 † † † † †How about also have the national teams from the smaller island play in our proleauge. 2 from Suriname, 1 from guy. gre., St Lucia, Vincy, Bdos, Antigua, Dom, St. Kitts. About 21 teams. What all yuh think.

Offline ABTrini

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2021, 06:54:18 AM »
Rethinking player and program development in TnT - how best  can we harness the raw talent and potential we have?

Offline Tiresais

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2021, 09:53:46 AM »
Consistent, stable league with good leadership and sustainable clubs. Professional is a joke - players need to know they'll get a consistent wage before that's even possible.

Offline Deeks

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2021, 12:59:18 PM »
Consistent, stable league with good leadership and sustainable clubs. Professional is a joke - players need to know they'll get a consistent wage before that's even possible.

Sustainable clubs is a big issue in football. The shelf live of a club in TT  is when the people who founded the club get old. Duration 20 t0 25 years. Imagine a club like Maple, 100 yrs, almost defunct. Malvern over 75 yrs on life support. I am surprise Jabloteh still there.

https://newsday.co.tt/2017/10/11/malvern-maples-celebrate-100-years-of-history/#:~:text=Actually%2C%20Malvern%20is%2075%20years,Maple%20is%20100%20years%20old.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 04:05:16 PM by Deeks »

Offline palos

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2021, 01:09:47 PM »
Align community football, including SSFL at all levels with pro clubs, corporate sponsorship, and media.   Kinda like a Best Village for football. 

For a country like ours...it's the only way I see it as being sustainable
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Deeks

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2021, 04:06:28 PM »
corporate sponsorship

Not happening!

Offline palos

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2021, 08:49:34 AM »
Corporate sponsorship happens in pan.  Why not football?

Thanks
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Tiresais

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2021, 09:29:10 AM »
No reason it can't happen- teams do have and have had it. But who is going to sponsor teams with little support and little stability?

Offline palos

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2021, 10:32:53 AM »
It wonít happen immediately thatís for sure.

But I feel a grassroots approach is whatís needed to build that support.  Community based, start small.  Hold matches on small grounds of stadia that amplify the atmosphere.

Maybe I just being nostalgic or yearning for something long gone....but sometimes you also have to go back to the future.
Carlos "The Rolls Royce" Edwards

Offline Deeks

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2021, 11:33:27 AM »
It wonít happen immediately thatís for sure.

But I feel a grassroots approach is whatís needed to build that support.  Community based, start small.  Hold matches on small grounds of stadia that amplify the atmosphere.

Maybe I just being nostalgic or yearning for something long gone....but sometimes you also have to go back to the future.

Palos, companies have sponsored events and teams in the past. The best example was the old SFL of the 50s, 60s, 70s. That was a company league. It was mainly petroleum, asphalt and sugar companies.  They had the best grounds is the country. They had good support. They were the closest to a professional league. This current proleague is a far cry from the old SFL. Corporate sponsorship must come in unisons. Not one  or two get sponsorship and the other 10 have their hand out for government subvention. Right now a small clique own almost all the companies that can each sponsor a team. How that go wuk ?

Community football went away for a number of reason. No sponsorship, disinterest, the yutes focus have shifted to other attractions and forms of entertainment. people moving to new communities and also abroad. But the lack of sponsorship is the main reason. One community may get and the other 3 may not get.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 11:40:16 AM by Deeks »

Offline maxg

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2021, 12:48:22 PM »
Just some random thoughts

What about the family who say they own over 100 + of the businesses n Trinidad- was some televised show, donít remember the details. Does that family support grass roots or only if their family is directly involved. TTians must start supporting who supports them. If Carib supporting football and Stag supporting cricket, and you a footballer, drink Carib. Switch from Heineken, if all three do celebrate with all equally, but donít leave the local because heís local. Even if another higher quality of anything is preferable, support who support you, and also buy local.
Unfortunately all my support and family is foreign, yet we still try to give to swimming in TT, even doh my passion is football.

Whenever we buy at the West Indian store we try to buy TT products first. TTians must at the very least by local. I like Palos and I think Deeks ideas, for area support, but a reality is , as Deeks pointed, uneven support, and ability of some to actually pay than promise. We need to make it safe for ppl to come out to games in each area. Security and heavy police/armypresence in area of games can be negotiated. How many Barca players are from Barcelona..
Covid education (Ppesí) . Staff volunteers and admin.
Monthly league meetings of clubs, even payscales across the league, rookie, mid range, snr. Like most pro sports. League sponsors and club sponsors, free and seasonal tickets, VIP boxes , contests and other marketing strategies.
All teams receive some prize money. Promotion/demotion based on choice of winners of 2 nd Tier team. Prize monies and set player salaries of 2nd tier clubs as well. 3rd Tier Amateur league, again with promotion choice. Each club canvass for area and community sponsors, seasonal tot programs.
I know many guys are more familiar with the clubs and how things can be organized, but important everyone put their heads together, it not about who knows more football than who. We need football heads, business heads, organization heads, marketing heads, sports heads from each region to get together and develop plans, and similar in admin. All volunteers, only players getting financed. Donít need no conmen trying to make money on football, we donít have enough monies for that. Adults need to work for the youth and the least haves of TT. A culture of working for young not self. Who smarter than who, and who better than who, and who from where.Quote ,ĒCovid 19, does not know race, rich, poor , background, area.Ē So does success no matter how big or small, so does failur , suffering and death. Affects us all. We have so much more in common than what separates us, it what ppl hold on to for National pride, in spite of differences. We have to come together for the success of our young.

(Paragraphs, eh ?  Lol
S

add: shouldn't be just about football, but for everything.
My neighbourhood kids, last week rang my doorbell. Had a price list for chores around the house (6, to 9 year olds- 5 of them). I contract them to do weeding. They did a fine job. Paid 15$. Sunday they came back brought me, Easter egg decorations they made with cutout and decorations to decorate our windows. It starts somewhere and ends where everyone benefits.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 01:08:31 PM by maxg »

Offline Deeks

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2021, 01:54:02 PM »
We need to make it safe for ppl to come out to games in each area. Security and heavy police/armypresence in area of games can be negotiated.

On point max. Football is mostly played after dark with the introduction of lights in the 70s. Night football boosted the game tremendously. But since banditry and callous shootings reared its' ugly head, lots of people prefer the safety of their homes instead of going to support their teams. That is so sad. How do we fix that?

Offline maxg

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Re: PL: True pro league or developmental?
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2021, 04:43:59 PM »
We need to make it safe for ppl to come out to games in each area. Security and heavy police/armypresence in area of games can be negotiated.

On point max. Football is mostly played after dark with the introduction of lights in the 70s. Night football boosted the game tremendously. But since banditry and callous shootings reared its' ugly head, lots of people prefer the safety of their homes instead of going to support their teams. That is so sad. How do we fix that?
A group of leaders who are ready to die for their country by doing the right thing, no matter how small. A group of followers who are ready to die for doing the right thing, no matter how big.